WEBVTT - Eva zu Beck on Overlanding Mauritania 0:00:05.960 --> 0:00:10.000 Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your host, 0:00:10.119 --> 0:00:13.239 Asha Jardano, and I'm joined today by Ava Zoobek to 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.480 chat all about her recent travels in Morocco and Mauritania, 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.600 in her Land River Defender, her new book The Wilder Way, 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:23.520 and about her national geographic series Super Skilled. Now this 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.880 is podcast number three hundred for us. It's incredible to 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.880 believe we've done three hundred episodes. The podcast began in 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.440 fall of twenty nineteen and it has been an absolute 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.479 joy to connect with so many folks about all things overlanding. Scott, 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:40.640 Matt and I enjoy the interviews that we do, and 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.159 we most enjoy sharing all of this knowledge and these 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.080 experiences with you. So thank you for being a listener. 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:49.280 And of course we're especially thankful for Paula burr Our producer, 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:51.920 for all of her tireless work in helping to bring 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.160 these things to production. Thanks for coming along for the ride, 0:00:56.320 --> 0:00:59.280 and we'll see you after another hundred and today we 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:03.680 have Adventures, her YouTube storyteller, speaker and writer and national 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:07.200 geographic host and director, gave a zoo back with us. Welcome, 0:01:07.440 --> 0:01:08.800 I'm so stoked to have you back. 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:11.399 Yes, I'm so happy to be here. 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:14.399 I was just thinking how amazing it is that I 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.640 can be in my shepherd's hut in the Carpathians in Poland, 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.600 you can be in Kyrgistan and we have the ability 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.280 to talk over the internet over the star, Like, isn't 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:25.120 that just amazing? 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:28.920 It still blows my mind. Even though it's been a 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:34.080 few years now, I'm still like, Wow, it's incredible, incredible stuff. 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:38.240 You look very cozy. I'm loving the cabin and the 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.280 lights and everything. So yeah, thanks for taking the time 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.920 out of your schedule to chat with me. And I'm 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.160 excited because this is your second time on the podcast 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.240 and so we have some different things to chat about 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:49.600 this time. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:51.080 Pleasure. 0:01:52.680 --> 0:01:55.320 So I want to talk about your Nott Geo series. 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.840 It's called Super Skilled, your new book. But first let's 0:01:59.840 --> 0:02:03.760 die into your recent overland trip through Morocco and Mauritania 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.240 with your Defender one ten. What was the vision for 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:10.560 the trip when you were thinking about it ahead of time? 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.560 So, I mean, I've been living in Europe these last 0:02:14.639 --> 0:02:17.120 couple of years, and you know, there's a lot of 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:20.440 great options for some amazing trips out of Europe, like 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.960 long distance trips, and for a while now I had 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.440 this like image in my head of being alone with 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.600 my truck and my dog in the desert. I don't know, 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:33.120 it just haunted me, that image, you know, in like 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:37.160 a good way. Like I just imagined the solitude and 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:41.640 the silence and the kind of like mental reset that 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:43.720 I could get from a trip like that. After a 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.200 very busy couple of years, so I was like, okay, 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.360 where do I go? And there was a couple of options. 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:49.560 You know. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:54.760 I could have headed east towards Saudi Arabia and the 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.920 Middle East. Thank god I didn't go, I mean, for 0:02:58.200 --> 0:02:59.680 it was a pretty bad time in the end, at 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.240 the end of this winter to go there. But the 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:05.320 other option was to head south to the Sahara. And 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:09.440 as soon as I thought, okay the Sahara, that name 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.040 just started like ringing in my head. So I started 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.880 doing a little bit of research around where I could go, 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:18.720 where my difficult to go, And yeah, I decided to 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.680 just scout it out this year, do an easier kind 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.360 of trip, see what it's like out there for a 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.560 soul female traveler with a dog. And that's why I 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:33.560 decided to go to Morocco and Oritania and really kind 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:37.280 of get off the beaten path in those countries. You 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.400 know a lot of people go to Morocco from Europe. 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:41.160 There's a lot of camper vans. It's kind of like 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:44.520 our version of Baja California in a way. So if 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:46.960 you stick to the tarmac roads, it's pretty boring, it's 0:03:46.960 --> 0:03:51.200 pretty uneventful. But I was like, Okay, I'm gonna avoid 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.920 tarmac as much as possible and stick to the dirt. 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:58.080 So my goal was to do as much dirt as possible, 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:02.480 as much driving through the desert as possible, and wild 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.920 camping and just being out there in places where no where, 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:06.760 nobody else was. 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:08.400 So that's kind of what happened. 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.000 Ended up going deep into Mauritania, where it was just 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.800 it felt like it was just me out there in 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.159 some places, you know, without seeing anyone for a couple 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.000 of days. What an amazing feeling that is. So that 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:22.960 was kind of the thinking to be alone in silence. 0:04:23.080 --> 0:04:27.800 I love that. Yeah, and you had been to Mauritania 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:32.000 before on the Orange Train. How different was this trip 0:04:32.600 --> 0:04:35.600 from that experience. I'm sure it's quite different. 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.839 But yeah, I think when we travel overland, it is 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:40.800 always a very different kind of experience. 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:41.159 You know. 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.680 A few years back, I went to Mortania for the 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.200 first time, and yeah, I got to ride the iron 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.000 ore train through the desert, which was so fun and 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.520 so messy, and we've got to hang out with some 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:54.480 of the nomads living in the desert. 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:54.760 There as well. 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:59.440 But I felt like going there with the car this 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:04.000 time was I saw a completely different country in so 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.920 many ways because I had access to places that I 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.040 didn't have access to before, you know, with a guide 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:13.800 or via like in a minibus I was. This time, 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:16.600 I was there with my pretty capable truck, and so 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.240 it felt like it had just opened up all of 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.080 these opportunities. I was able to reach desert oasis that 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:26.719 I didn't even know existed, that weren't even marked on 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:30.280 Google Maps, you know, that I had just simply spotted 0:05:30.360 --> 0:05:32.640 by scrolling through Google Maps. 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:34.440 On you know, the satellite maps. 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:38.240 I got to drive across landscapes that I didn't even 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:40.520 know that there were roads there, because again there were 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:43.880 no roads that you could there were no roads marked 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:46.800 for those places on Google Maps. So it's amazing the 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.360 kind of freedom that you have when you have your 0:05:49.400 --> 0:05:53.159 own vehicle that can go anywhere. Maybe not very fast, 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:55.720 but it can go anywhere, and you're able to create 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.520 that route that completely independently and make it your own. 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.520 So I just completely fell in love with more Tea 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.880 this time around. It's just one of the most amazing places, 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.280 and I really want to go back so good. 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.520 It's fascinating when you go to a country you've been 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.359 to before in a different way like that, and you 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:18.360 learn so much more and can go deeper and find 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:21.479 different things like that. Was this trip for you more 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:25.040 of a reset or was this work related? Did you 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:27.600 go there to get some space. You're talking about being 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.800 away from people and being in the silence and being solitary. 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:35.039 Yeah, you know, it's always a bit of a work 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:39.840 trip for me because I'm always filming. It's never like 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.040 just for pleasure. I'm not sure if I could even 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:45.120 do that at this point. I would just feel like, 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.960 oh my god, I where's my camera? I need to record? 0:06:49.360 --> 0:06:50.680 Can relate? Can't relate? 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:56.200 Yeah, but it was definitely. I think it was a 0:06:56.200 --> 0:07:00.280 bit more challenging actually than I had expected it to be. Again, 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:02.719 I just came with this image in my head of 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.119 you know, of the silence and the solitude and things 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.160 going well. I always try to picture things going well, 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.480 because what's the point of picturing things going badly? You 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.200 know that they probably will at some point, and obviously 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.600 you want to come ready, But I don't want to 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.320 preoccupy my mind with things going badly in advance. 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:22.640 Why worry in advance. 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:27.360 But I guess that also led to me underestimating some 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:30.640 of the challenges that I would encounter, you know, so 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.280 it didn't fully allow me to reset, like, for example, 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.560 the fact that my truck did break down several times 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:39.480 in the desert, and these were not like there was 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:42.040 only one breakdown that was quite major. Most of them 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:48.520 were minor things, but things that nevertheless required the. 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:49.720 Presence of a mechanic to get them fixed. 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:53.040 You know, I'm one of those overlanders that do not 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.520 have a great deal of mechanical skills. 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.040 I can do the basics. 0:07:57.120 --> 0:08:01.080 I can change a tire, I can change the oil 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.360 like things like that, I can do. But there's but 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:07.040 the more kind of advanced stuff I'm honestly just not 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:11.640 very good at. And and I figured that generally speaking, 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:16.680 there's always gonna be someone within a day's travel radius 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.680 that could probably help out, and maybe perhaps that's naive, 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:23.160 but I feel like, in a way it's almost it's 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.960 actually very realistic, because even if you do have mechanical skills, 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.400 you're not always gonna have all the parts to fix 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.520 your car. So you're you're still probably gonna need some 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.320 help at some point. So I guess there was I mean, 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:39.720 there was one part of the of the route that 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:41.880 I took that was I would say, probably like the 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:45.400 most challenging out of the entire trip, and that was 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.800 So you've got the iron Ore train tracks in Mauritania. 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:51.640 They kind of take you from yeah, like deep in 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:55.160 the Sahara all the way to the coast of Mauritania, 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.720 and that's where this really long train, one of the 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.640 longest trains in the world that transports iron Or that's 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:04.400 where it crosses. And these train tracks are almost like 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:08.120 a straight line basically just kind of a straight line 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:09.679 on a map. It looks quite funny when you look 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:12.720 at it on maps. And you can take the train. 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:14.560 Some people take hop on the train, which is a 0:09:14.559 --> 0:09:17.920 pretty hardcore experience, which I did a few years back. 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.280 This time, I was like, can I wonder if I 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.520 can drive this track? And as it turns out, you can, 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.719 you can actually drive alongside the train tracks, so you're 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:28.960 basically just keeping a little bit south of them, but 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.240 you're following the tracks all the way from the Sahara 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:37.760 to the coast, and it's so navigationally, it's a pretty 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:39.400 straightforward challenge. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:40.880 You just have to go west. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.559 But for many other reasons, it's actually quite a difficult 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:48.880 route because there's sand dunes along the way, there's. 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:49.120 No actual track. 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:50.959 A lot of the time it kind of splits off 0:09:50.960 --> 0:09:53.400 into various different directions, so you always have to make 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:58.160 sure that you're going the right the correct way west. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.720 There is I think I believe it's about three hundred 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:08.000 miles of no tarmac, just sand, and there's only a 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:11.720 couple of very very very small settlements en route, settlements 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:15.240 that actually serve as the train. So I decided to 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:18.400 do this route after my truck had already broken down 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.319 a couple of times, and I was kind of ready 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:22.360 to go home, and I was like, I just I 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.720 could just go home on the tarmac road, or I 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:26.200 could take this route as. 0:10:26.200 --> 0:10:29.520 One final challenge, like one last hurrah. 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.440 And so I did, and I was met by a 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.600 pretty big sandstorm that lasted the entire three days that 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.080 I was doing this track, and there were points where 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:42.319 I could not see anything ten meters ahead of me, 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.839 where everything the world just disappeared and. 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:49.199 Got engulfed by all this sand. And that's also. 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:54.520 When I had another breakdown, pretty much very much in 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:58.800 the middle of nowhere. But I was extremely, extremely lucky 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.320 that there was a settlement that I had just passed 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.760 a few minutes before. So I kind of left this 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:08.960 tiny little settlement, kept driving, and then I felt my 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:12.800 truck lose power. You know, I pressed the gas ped 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.160 ll nothing happened, It just lost power and then switched 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.920 itself off. I'd never experienced that. My truck had never 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.360 done that before. It literally just switched itself off. That 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:25.120 was it, and stopped. And yeah, I ended up kind 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.480 of running back to that settlement with my dog and 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.760 you know, asking around for help. I found someone who 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.200 had a truck, and then they knew a mechanic, and then, 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:39.079 you know, fifteen minutes later, this local village mechanic comes 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:44.000 in a very old series and drives up to me 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.120 and then for the next hour proceeds to check all 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.760 the little wires you know, under the bonnet and eventually 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.040 gets the truck started. It's been and it's you know, 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:54.679 it's just moments like this where you're like, you're in 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:58.120 the middle of the Sahara and there's someone there who 0:11:58.200 --> 0:11:58.840 could help you. 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:00.000 It's incredible. 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:05.760 Yeah, I probably wouldn't wouldn't recommend this kind of approach, 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:09.400 but yeah, it's been. It was an amazing trip and definitely, yeah, 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.360 a bit of a reset, but also a little bit 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:16.320 of a travel anxiety. I suppose that's probably quite normal 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:17.560 for overlanding, isn't it. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.680 For sure? And good timing on your part that you 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:23.959 were close to a village. 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:28.959 Many serendipitous moments like this, I call them travel magic, 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:32.520 where you really have to believe that things will work 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.600 out somehow, And I think this kind of having this 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:41.079 attitude also helps you find solutions to problems quickly because 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:43.240 you truly believe that, yeah, I am going to get 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.120 assorted sooner or later. 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.960 So yeah, travel magic in the Sahara. 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.520 Speaking of travel magic in the Sahara, what were some 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.680 of the best moments of that trip? 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:57.240 The best moments? 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.520 Gosh, I would have to say I'm probably not going 0:12:59.559 --> 0:13:02.880 to rank that, so this is in any random order, 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.480 but I think my top three would be finding this 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.439 like hidden oasis in the middle of the desert. There 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:13.840 was nobody there, It wasn't on Google Maps. It genuinely 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.160 felt like I was the only person in the world 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.160 in this oasis. And I sat there for two days 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:20.959 and I couldn't get away. 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:22.679 I was like, this is I think this is what 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:23.640 paradise would look like. 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:31.719 Waterfalls, greenery, palm trees, a massive blue green pool, just astonishing. 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:33.760 That was probably one of the best. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.440 Another one was when I was hanging out with so 0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:41.640 I was actually driving through again a pretty rough kind 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.720 of off road track, and then these two ladies stopped 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.120 me along the way and I was like, where the 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.200 where'd you come from? They were just hanging out there, 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.240 and I got the chatting with them in like a 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.560 mix of broken French and an Arabic, and they were 0:13:54.640 --> 0:13:57.960 just two ladies who were literally sitting there by the 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:00.400 side of the road waiting for like the one or 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:04.040 two cars that would pass by that route every day, 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:08.880 and they were just selling things, all kinds of things, food, fruit, 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:11.360 like local dresses. We had a bit of a chat, 0:14:11.440 --> 0:14:14.800 a bit of a laugh. Again, just the complete mix 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:19.840 of languages really more like gestures than words. And yeah, 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.480 just hanging out with them for fifteen twenty minutes was 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:23.240 definitely one. 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:23.800 Of the highlights. 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:28.280 And then, gosh, I think the thread would be every 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.040 single night out there in the desert. Every single night 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:35.000 was so incredibly peaceful. You would look out your rooft 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.000 up tent and there's, you know, this amazing blanket of 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.240 stars up in the sky and I had some of 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:43.800 the best sleep of my life out there in the Sahara. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.320 So yeah, that was so peaceful. 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:51.560 I love it. I want to go. I love the 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.840 desert too, the desert, the desert sleeps there. 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.680 Yeah, you know what I'd really love to do though 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.280 having been there now, but I feel like I would 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.520 need to level up my mechanical skills in order to 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:10.200 do this. Other leg would be to complete this Sahara 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.960 leg by going like taking the ferry from Europe to 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:17.480 Tunisia and then going into like Algeria, Libya, back into 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.800 Algeria and then into Mauritania and then back up through Morocco. 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.880 That's what I would love to do. That sounds like 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:25.600 there's so much there. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:33.120 Same I am stoked on that route. Like Henriette, who 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:35.760 has a motorcycle and she's done parts of that we 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.160 had around the podcast recently, and wow, it just looks 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:39.920 so incredible. 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.640 Yeah, she's so badass. 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.640 Henriette highly recommend checking her out for anyone that doesn't 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:49.640 know her. She helped me find a route via Western Sahara, 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:51.920 so we were in touch because she had done it already, 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.240 and you know, in Western Sahara, like most people just 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.280 go straight line on the Tama Road from kind of 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:02.000 Morocco to Mauritania, but there is another route and that 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.640 fewer people know about. That's sorry, I wore. That's more 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:09.680 in the desert that takes you through a literal minefield. 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.720 Sounds pretty gnarly and it kind of is, but you 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.640 can quite safely make your way through it because you know, 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:16.120 people do. 0:16:16.320 --> 0:16:19.560 There's a military dirt road that leads through it. And 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:20.920 so Henrietta. 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.960 Shared her GPX tracks with me and I took her 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:25.760 root and it was marvelous. 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:28.800 So yeah, she's so badass. She is. 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.240 She's great. I loved following her trip and her all 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.200 her trips. But yeah, she's very You can see the 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:37.800 joy in her face and it's so wonderful. And also 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:41.760 that's great, you know, I live also love sharing resources 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.960 and touching on that point, you have a Polar Steps 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.680 journey that you kept track of during this trip through 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.920 Morocco and Mauritania that's available for people if they'd like 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.000 to follow along in your entire tracks as well. 0:16:57.040 --> 0:17:00.840 Yes, I didn't publish the entire like every single meter, 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:04.480 kilometer and mile of the route, but I did publish 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:07.320 all of my campsites, So every single campsite that I 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.439 spent like a night at, it's all up there, so 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:12.560 you can see pictures and you can see the exact 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.440 GPS coordinates as well, which I think is quite a 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.680 nice resource, especially for people who maybe are like who 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.800 want to make the trip but are a little bit 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.240 worried about it or anxious, or just would rather see 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:25.720 what it actually looks like in kind of in real life. 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.639 Before I've also added some tips like is it four 0:17:28.720 --> 0:17:29.639 by four accessible? 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:30.480 Sorry? 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:32.959 Non four by four accessible, but GM most places are 0:17:33.040 --> 0:17:34.280 only four x four? 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.360 Is there cell signal? You know? Things like that, So 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.800 hopefully that'll be of use to people. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.400 Travel Inspiration will include the link in the show notes 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:47.600 as well, so thank you for sharing that with us. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.600 I'm wondering also in terms of planning ahead of time, 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:53.760 did you do quite a bit of planning a little bit. 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:55.800 Did you reach out to folks? How did you put 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:56.560 this trip together? 0:17:57.880 --> 0:17:59.800 Yeah, I'm you know, I'm one of those people who 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.359 don't plan very much. I'm not a major planner. I 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:06.439 don't like planning. I like to have a general idea 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:11.240 of what's coming up. Some like plan bees and contacts. 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.240 I think, honestly, to me, that's the most important thing 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.080 is having contact and being able to get in touch 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.199 with people, either people who have done the trip and 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:21.440 can give you some tips or people who are there. 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:22.080 On the ground. 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.360 So I just knew that I wanted to go into 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.480 the Sahara and do as much of that as possible. 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.560 And along the way, I just got chatting to people 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:32.679 who were able to point me in the right direction, 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.040 who were able to share some route tracks with me 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.160 that they had done or that they simply had from 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:41.560 someone else. But you know how it is in the 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.720 overlanding community, right you get the chatting to someone, you 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.479 get the chatting about destinations and roots, and they're you know, 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.760 you're always sharing both ways. So there was a lot 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:55.119 of that, and yeah, I just kind of went along 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.600 with what the route threw at me. 0:18:58.880 --> 0:18:59.359 I had to. 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:01.480 Part of the reason why I don't like planning so 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.400 much is because I know that the plan always changes, 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:07.320 and you know, after I had a couple of breakdowns 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:11.880 in Mauritania, my time there got shorter and I wasn't 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.800 able to execute My entire plan was planning to go 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.240 to the Reshat structure and beyond and kind of around. 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:21.480 I would have needed ten days for that, but because 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:23.960 of my breakdown, I ended up having five. So you know, 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.119 you're kind of adjusting your plans as you go along. 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.159 But I think for me, the most helpful resource and 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.720 the thing that always kept me sane despite some of 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:37.399 the challenges and the remoteness, was being in touch with locals. 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.480 So I always seek out local Often it's guides, people 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:44.080 who work in tourism who you just get chatting to 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:47.480 and you have them in your WhatsApp. You're not traveling 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:50.840 with them necessarily, because that's not you know, when you're overlanding. 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:52.399 I think a lot of us like to be alone 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:55.000 and independent, but you do have them in your WhatsApp, 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.440 and if you have a starlink then that's almost enough 0:19:57.480 --> 0:19:58.840 and you know that you can always reach out to 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.840 them if something happens, ask for help, you know, and 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.919 there is that relationship, I think, and it's important to 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.400 have locals that will look out for you. So that's 0:20:10.480 --> 0:20:13.800 kind of that's my One of my strategies for traveling 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:18.000 alone is you're not really alone, like in spirit so 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:18.840 to speak. 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:23.639 Yes, that's great advice. I like that a lot. And 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:27.320 people know where you are, but not totally all the time, 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:28.880 so it's a really nice Yeah. 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.080 And I do actually share my life location with some 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:36.080 trusted people who then I know if something led to happen, 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.080 I know that they would, you know, act so and 0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.760 that's my mom and one of my friends. So yeah, 0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:44.080 I think that that's always a good trick to have 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:44.800 up your sleeve. 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.000 Absolutely, I'm always sending my mom our camp every night 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.960 usually if I can't try every night just to be like, hey, 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:55.359 we're here. And then I think also it's fun for 0:20:55.440 --> 0:20:57.480 them because they can see where you are in real 0:20:57.520 --> 0:20:59.679 time and they're like, oh, that's what that place looks like? 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.800 Really yeah, really cool? Yeah yeah great. 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:08.320 My mom looking at my like Life three sixty location 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:12.520 on her app and she was like, where the hell 0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:16.919 are you? Like, there's no road there, there's no towns, there, like, 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.280 what is this place? I'm like, yeah, that's kind of 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:19.639 the point. 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.680 So fun. Thank you for sharing all those fun facts 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:27.879 and your experiences in those areas. Yeah, it's been so 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:32.000 fun to watch that trip and gain some insight as 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:36.480 to what was going on behind the scenes with you there. Yeah, 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.080 great stuff. We'll have to go back, we both have. 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.920 Yeah, if you ever feel like doing that other side 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:45.239 of the Sahara. 0:21:44.760 --> 0:21:47.880 Let me know. Maybe there's a trip in death for us. 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:54.240 I love it, definitely, definitely. So let's switch gears. Let's 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:58.560 talk about super Skilled. So it's your national geographic two 0:21:58.600 --> 0:22:01.920 seasons now. I believe, hopefully I'm right on that front. Yes, 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:06.880 And maybe I just explained to the listeners who don't 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:09.760 know what Super Skilled is, what it's about, and what 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:11.320 the vision was behind the series. 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:13.040 Yeah. 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:16.919 Super Skilled is a show where, you know, we travel 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.400 to some of the world's most remote locations to meet 0:22:19.400 --> 0:22:23.760 people who have extraordinary skill sets. And these are perhaps 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:25.680 not the kinds of skill sets that a lot of us, 0:22:25.720 --> 0:22:26.360 you know, would. 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:28.159 Learn in school or in the university. 0:22:28.280 --> 0:22:31.159 These are, you know, skills that are often tied to 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:36.040 their cultures. For example, barefoot running with the Tarahomara tribe 0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.800 in Mexico. You know, these are this this culture, this community. 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:42.960 These are people who are shepherds and run run very 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.200 long distances across the mountains. So they've developed this incredible 0:22:46.320 --> 0:22:50.520 skill of you're running around in like these sandals and 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:55.440 have become exceptionally good all trendurance runners. So we kind 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.240 of go out there to really explore the hidden power 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:01.439 of the human potential and see if we can learn 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:03.560 some of these skills and what it would take to 0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:06.680 learn some of those skills. So it's a really beautiful 0:23:06.720 --> 0:23:09.119 show in the sense that it has really allowed us 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:14.280 to explore places that few adventure shows have ventured into, 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:18.520 and also explore a very different kind of format for 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:22.480 a travel show. I've been doing this kind of travel 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:27.120 film thing for gosh nine years now, and I've always 0:23:27.400 --> 0:23:30.960 looked at travel shows that we've traditionally watched on television, 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:34.680 and I've always felt a little bit disappointed by them. 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:37.080 Maybe you know, some of them are really amazing, and 0:23:37.119 --> 0:23:42.520 there's many that are great, but most I felt lacked something. 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:46.480 They lacked this certain perspective and that I thought was 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:51.600 something that perhaps we could change with super skilled So 0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:54.080 I wanted to create a show where it wasn't just 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.800 you know, the host goes to a destination and then 0:23:57.880 --> 0:24:00.760 talks about the place and it's just their perspect I 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:04.800 wanted to create a show where we go and spend 0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:07.280 time with the people who live in that place, you know, 0:24:07.400 --> 0:24:11.800 the actual native inhabitants of that place where we go in, 0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:16.119 and really we show that place and that culture through 0:24:16.240 --> 0:24:18.880 the perspective and the lens of the people who live there. 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:23.720 Like I wanted that, I wanted from my presence to 0:24:23.760 --> 0:24:28.359 just be like a vehicle to communicating the you know, 0:24:28.400 --> 0:24:31.600 that culture and that community through the perspective. 0:24:31.119 --> 0:24:31.879 Of the locals. 0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:34.359 And I think we I think we did that quite well, 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:37.360 you know, through you know, we just hang out with them, 0:24:37.520 --> 0:24:42.680 We learned from them, We showcased the their excellent skills, 0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:48.520 their amazing abilities, and I think through interviews and through 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.119 just spending so much time together, I really feel like 0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:55.919 Super Skilled does communicate the amazing power of human potential 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:57.960 and the human spirit all across the world. 0:24:58.520 --> 0:25:00.240 And I think it's it's got an inspiring show. You know. 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:02.520 I've had so many messages from people saying that, you know, 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:05.879 they took up various kinds of amazing hobbies because of 0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:06.720 the show, whether. 0:25:06.520 --> 0:25:10.440 It's running or archery, because. 0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:13.080 We did an episode on horseback archery and mongolia, and 0:25:13.119 --> 0:25:15.400 so that's been quite inspiring, quite fun to see. 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:18.560 Not a week goes by that someone doesn't reach out 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:22.560 to ask how they can help support the podcast. We 0:25:22.720 --> 0:25:28.960 are supported entirely by Overland Journal, the magazine. So when 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.880 you become a subscriber to the Overland Journal print magazine, 0:25:31.880 --> 0:25:34.680 you get this beautiful book that comes in five times 0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:37.120 a year. It also gives you access to our digital 0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:41.600 archive and it's well over one hundred pages of gorgeous 0:25:41.640 --> 0:25:45.560 images and detailed testing and adventures from around the globe. 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:48.159 So if you go to Overland Journal dot com and 0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:52.719 you subscribe to the magazine, use the code Overland Podcast 0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:55.600 and that'll get you twenty percent off. It's only available 0:25:55.680 --> 0:25:58.600 to our podcast listeners. We don't advertise it anywhere else, 0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:03.080 and then you help us to maintain that independent, employee 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:07.040 owned journalism that we have been famous for, so it 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:11.520 allows us to conduct those tests without any advertorial Another 0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:13.800 way you can help out too. I produced a book 0:26:14.359 --> 0:26:17.280 last year with Simon and Schuster called Overlanding one oh one. 0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:20.040 You can find it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble 0:26:20.160 --> 0:26:24.280 or even your local bookstore, and that encompasses my decades 0:26:24.320 --> 0:26:26.960 of travel around the world, all my mistakes and failures 0:26:27.000 --> 0:26:30.679 and the lessons that I've learned in traveling around the globe. 0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:34.000 Many of those that you hear on the podcast have 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:37.040 been distilled down into print form with great lists and 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:40.440 beautiful imagery, so you can find that at your local 0:26:40.440 --> 0:26:43.159 bookstore overlanding one on one and thank you all for 0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:47.040 listening and for supporting us so much throughout these years. 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:50.080 Yeah, I was going to ask you what the experience 0:26:50.080 --> 0:26:54.040 taught you about learning new skills, because you're going into 0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:55.960 these situations, some of them you do have a bit 0:26:56.000 --> 0:27:00.240 of experience with, some of them not at all. As 0:27:00.240 --> 0:27:04.800 an adult, learning new things can be uncomfortable. Sometimes what 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:07.760 did you learn and how did it humble you or not? 0:27:07.880 --> 0:27:08.320 Who knows? 0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:12.680 Yeah, many many of the skills that we learned humbled 0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:14.919 me a lot. And I just remember, you know, we 0:27:14.960 --> 0:27:18.560 traveled to Kenya, to the so called home of the Champions. 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:20.760 It's a small town Kenya, well not maybe not so 0:27:20.800 --> 0:27:23.600 small anymore, but it's a town called Eton that not 0:27:23.680 --> 0:27:26.040 many people know about, which is kind of like the 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:30.720 capital of marathon running in the world. This is where 0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:35.919 most of the really famous marathon runners are living and training. 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:40.639 So you've got just this like incredible like excellence picapita, 0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:42.639 like it's just out of this world. You know, these 0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:45.560 are people who are running marathons and like within the 0:27:45.840 --> 0:27:50.200 two hour two hour ten range. Incredible, so fast. So 0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:54.000 there we tried to learn how to do a fast marathon, which, 0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:55.560 as it turns out, is not a skill that you 0:27:55.600 --> 0:28:00.679 can learn in seven days price. But it was extremely 0:28:00.760 --> 0:28:03.720 humbling because I just remember setting off on my first 0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:08.439 training run with our with our host Rosemary, who's a 0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:12.199 very skilled, very accomplished marathon runner, and you know, we're 0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:15.080 kind of running along the track with her and her team, 0:28:15.840 --> 0:28:18.680 and they are just jogging along. Literally, they're just doing 0:28:18.720 --> 0:28:21.000 it's you know, it's a jog for them. It's one 0:28:21.080 --> 0:28:24.520 step above a walk, and it's just a very easy 0:28:24.560 --> 0:28:27.679 training run. Meanwhile, I'm trying to I'm really doing my 0:28:27.760 --> 0:28:30.119 best to keep up with them, but I'm finding it 0:28:30.160 --> 0:28:32.200 really difficult because for me, this is not just a jog. 0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:35.600 For me, this is like this is like just something 0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:38.160 just under a sprint. So this is like a proper 0:28:38.360 --> 0:28:41.280 fast run for me. So I'm kind of there, like 0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:43.400 in the back of the group, just really struggling to 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:43.840 keep up. 0:28:43.920 --> 0:28:47.240 Meanwhile they're just breathing through it. So yeah, I have. 0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:50.640 Kind of watching people who have these incredible skills do 0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:56.400 their thing is so very inspiring. It can definitely feel 0:28:56.400 --> 0:28:59.040 a little bit intimidating. You're like, oh my god, I'll 0:28:59.040 --> 0:29:01.080 never get to that level. But I think part of 0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:04.640 kind of my learning process for super skilled has been 0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:08.240 this is not about me becoming excellent at these skills, 0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:11.120 and we don't have to become excellent at everything that 0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:14.440 we do, but what an amazing joy it is to 0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:18.320 just dip your feet in these worlds, in these skills 0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:23.080 and experience what it's like, experience the people who truly 0:29:23.120 --> 0:29:27.160 are excellent, and get inspired by them across other areas, 0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:31.280 other parts of your life. So yeah, very very humbling, 0:29:31.480 --> 0:29:35.560 but also incredibly inspiring. So yeah, my kind of challenge 0:29:35.600 --> 0:29:37.840 was to do I'm not very I mean, I love 0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:40.480 running and I run long distances, but I'm quite slow. 0:29:40.880 --> 0:29:43.120 I'm not very fast runners. So my kind of challenge 0:29:43.160 --> 0:29:47.440 for that was to run within a set like run 0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:50.760 a marathon within a set time. And I actually failed 0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:53.400 that challenge. That was the one challenge across the show 0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:56.040 that I failed and I just didn't manage to do 0:29:56.080 --> 0:29:56.680 it on time. 0:29:56.920 --> 0:29:58.560 But that's kind of part of it. 0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:01.120 It's kind of part of the experience is learning things, 0:30:01.840 --> 0:30:06.920 being able to fail and picking yourself up and just 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:07.960 keep going, right. 0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:10.080 Isn't that what life is all about? 0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:15.560 Yeah, you learn more from failing than succeeding, so I've heard. 0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:17.479 But I'm also like, but I don't want to. 0:30:19.640 --> 0:30:22.320 But it's always, of course, always nice to do to 0:30:22.600 --> 0:30:24.680 get things done and succeed at them once in a 0:30:24.680 --> 0:30:25.240 while if you. 0:30:25.240 --> 0:30:31.160 Get absolutely And also, what an incredible privilege to be 0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:35.800 in a situation with somebody from another place with this 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:40.479 super skill and they're teaching you about what they know, 0:30:41.160 --> 0:30:44.479 and yeah, like the whole culture component, and if you're 0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:49.400 driven by curiosity at all, what an incredible situation to 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:49.720 be in. 0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:51.080 Yeah. 0:30:51.240 --> 0:30:53.720 The most technical I think of all the skills that 0:30:53.760 --> 0:30:57.360 we've attempted to learn on the show was holds back 0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:01.640 archery and mongolia and nowt that is something that really 0:31:01.680 --> 0:31:06.480 requires so much focus and so much technical prowess. So 0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:09.960 you know, kind of being there and learning something that 0:31:10.160 --> 0:31:12.640 is very technical was like a whole other kind of 0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:17.880 experience we learned from this amazing female horseback archer. And 0:31:18.160 --> 0:31:20.920 in cases like that, you've got people who can really 0:31:20.960 --> 0:31:23.480 teach you skills that nobody else can in the world. 0:31:23.520 --> 0:31:26.160 She's one of the very few, you know, female. 0:31:25.840 --> 0:31:30.920 Horseback archers at her level in the world, and one 0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:33.400 of the few in Mongolia. So you know, also meeting 0:31:33.400 --> 0:31:37.280 people who just have these really rare, niche skills, who 0:31:37.360 --> 0:31:40.880 are making it and creating an entire lifestyle, an entire 0:31:41.000 --> 0:31:43.800 career off of those that's also very inspiring because it 0:31:43.840 --> 0:31:46.960 really teaches you that, oh my god, there's like all 0:31:47.000 --> 0:31:50.120 these worlds out there that you know, you could become 0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:50.600 part of. 0:31:50.680 --> 0:31:54.080 And yeah, it's it's been a very inspiring journey. 0:31:55.320 --> 0:31:58.120 It was incredible watching you. I saw that episode and 0:31:59.120 --> 0:32:04.080 the whole process behind it, and then watching her and 0:32:04.120 --> 0:32:07.240 watching you and all that it required to ride on 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:09.880 a horse with it and obviously you weren't holding onto 0:32:09.920 --> 0:32:13.520 anything but you're bow and then trying to hit a target. 0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:17.480 It's incredibly difficult, but also it's so cool. 0:32:18.640 --> 0:32:23.560 It's so cool you're literally on a galloping horse, rainless 0:32:23.680 --> 0:32:25.960 because you can't hold onto the reins because as you say, 0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:28.160 you've got to be able to hold your boat in 0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:32.080 both of your hands. So yeah, you're not just not 0:32:32.200 --> 0:32:35.400 holding onto anything, galloping along at you know, thirty kilometers 0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:38.040 an hour and trying to shoot at a very small 0:32:38.080 --> 0:32:40.400 target at the same time. So it's a pretty wild skill. 0:32:40.520 --> 0:32:42.480 And you know, I mean I just I did it 0:32:42.520 --> 0:32:45.160 for a few days. But the people who you know, 0:32:45.200 --> 0:32:47.240 if you look at the people that we were learning from, 0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:48.720 this Mongogan crew that. 0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:50.720 We had there, they've been doing it for years. 0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:54.320 And when they're out there shooting, they're just so incredibly graceful. 0:32:54.400 --> 0:32:58.640 It looks like they're flying so very very just like epic. 0:32:58.840 --> 0:33:00.640 Oh my gosh, they looked like they were out of 0:33:01.360 --> 0:33:03.000 they just came straight out of some kind. 0:33:02.880 --> 0:33:03.520 Of fairy tale. 0:33:05.760 --> 0:33:11.200 Incredible, incredible to watch. I love that part of traveling 0:33:11.360 --> 0:33:15.960 about those things or trying or Yeah, it's great. So 0:33:16.240 --> 0:33:21.080 be fun and exciting and informative. So I would like 0:33:21.160 --> 0:33:25.440 to take you through some rapid fire questions and these 0:33:25.480 --> 0:33:30.640 apply to your traveling history. So anytime could be last year, 0:33:30.760 --> 0:33:35.400 could be years ago, doesn't matter. Most ingenious repair. 0:33:37.720 --> 0:33:43.920 Who okay, yeah, Mauritania Sahara twenty twenty six. So X, 0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:46.840 I'm out there in the desert all the kind of 0:33:47.480 --> 0:33:49.800 a lot of the wires under my bonnet get a 0:33:49.840 --> 0:33:53.880 little bit clogged up because driving through a very big 0:33:53.920 --> 0:33:57.520 sandstorm in the sand for many many days and there's 0:33:57.600 --> 0:34:01.680 dust covering everything. The car stops, doesn't want to start again, 0:34:01.960 --> 0:34:05.240 and mechanic comes eventually asks me if I have perfume, 0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:08.000 and I say I do not have perfume, and he 0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:12.440 somehow manages to find perfume from someone else and suddenly 0:34:12.440 --> 0:34:16.960 sprays dulchin gabana perfume some on the wires under my bonnet, 0:34:17.200 --> 0:34:20.040 and the car magically starts again. So I think, I 0:34:20.080 --> 0:34:22.160 think this was some kind of clean up job. But 0:34:22.200 --> 0:34:25.360 I never never expected dolabana perfume to come to my 0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:27.520 rescue in the middle of the Sahara, but it did. 0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:31.920 What are you going to carry perfume now on your journey? 0:34:31.920 --> 0:34:34.080 Apparently I should. Yeah. 0:34:34.120 --> 0:34:38.040 That's a great one. Okay. Next one is best food. 0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:40.320 That's going to be maybe difficult. 0:34:39.920 --> 0:34:41.880 But best food. 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:46.880 I think Lebanon, Lebanese cuisine halloo mih. He doesn't love 0:34:46.960 --> 0:34:51.640 a bit of halumi cheese, great hamas taboole. I think 0:34:51.800 --> 0:34:55.000 Lebanon would have to be it. Though I'm sure if 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:57.719 I traveled to Japan, I would probably change my mind. 0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:03.839 We'll see, maybe on the next podcast episode we will 0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:09.400 know if Japan has the best food. Worst illness is 0:35:09.440 --> 0:35:10.000 the next one. 0:35:11.320 --> 0:35:12.320 Worst illness. 0:35:12.760 --> 0:35:16.160 Thank god, I have not really been that ill on 0:35:16.280 --> 0:35:20.880 my travel While filming Super Skilled, we were in Bolivia, 0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:23.640 high up in the Andes, and you know, when you're 0:35:23.719 --> 0:35:25.799 up there at high altitude, I think you're maybe your 0:35:25.800 --> 0:35:28.799 immune system weekends a little bit. And on my way 0:35:28.800 --> 0:35:32.440 back from Bolivia after the shoot, I developed a really 0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:36.720 horrific infection on my thumb, and it was so bad 0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:40.200 that it ended up being this like big ball of 0:35:40.480 --> 0:35:43.720 blood that covered my entire thumb. One of the most 0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:48.120 painful experiences of my entire life. I couldn't sleep because 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:51.040 the pain was so intense. I couldn't sit down because 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:53.759 the pain was so intense. I just had to stand 0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:57.160 up and keep walking around just to distract myself. And 0:35:57.160 --> 0:35:59.240 that was a Yeah, ended up being a staph infection 0:36:00.120 --> 0:36:03.279 thumb and my nail ended up coming off and it's 0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:06.239 only now growing back kind of after eight months. 0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:07.719 Oh my gosh. 0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:11.000 Yeah, it's pretty horrific, pretty gnarly, pretty disgusting. 0:36:11.040 --> 0:36:11.520 To look at. 0:36:11.680 --> 0:36:15.000 Okay, next this highest high. 0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:20.200 I think my very first proper solo venture into the 0:36:20.200 --> 0:36:24.920 wilderness about seven years ago now, I bought two horses 0:36:25.080 --> 0:36:29.600 in Mongolia and went off alone into the wild for 0:36:29.640 --> 0:36:32.360 a couple of weeks, and I think it was the 0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:34.480 highest tie I've ever had because it was the very 0:36:34.520 --> 0:36:38.520 first time that I experienced what it really meant to 0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:41.520 be alive. I remember being out there, just me and 0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:46.440 my two horses, nobody else all around, camping completely wild place, 0:36:46.600 --> 0:36:50.160 wild nature, and I'm looking out onto this vast, enormous 0:36:50.239 --> 0:36:53.160 landscape and I for the first time in my. 0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:57.120 Life, I felt truly free, Like I didn't have to 0:36:57.239 --> 0:36:58.120 answer to anyone. 0:36:58.200 --> 0:37:01.320 I didn't have to speak to you, won't think about anything, 0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:04.840 do anything. I was just there, so incredibly present in, 0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:08.360 you know, within the majesty of the natural world. And 0:37:08.400 --> 0:37:11.400 I think I just felt so alive, so free, And 0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:12.920 it was the first time that I'd ever felt that 0:37:13.040 --> 0:37:14.880 in my life. And you know, I was in my 0:37:15.160 --> 0:37:17.640 late twenties by then, so it's amazing that I had 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:19.800 to wait for so long to experience that moment. 0:37:21.760 --> 0:37:25.760 Beautiful. The opposite end, lowest low. 0:37:26.880 --> 0:37:31.560 Lowest low ever was probably a couple of years preceding 0:37:31.600 --> 0:37:35.520 that highest high, and that was when I was living 0:37:35.520 --> 0:37:40.360 in London, a very different life, corporate job, stable relationship, 0:37:40.440 --> 0:37:43.520 I was married back then, climbing the corporate ladder, but 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:47.440 also feeling the most miserable ever of my entire life. 0:37:47.520 --> 0:37:50.080 I you know, I was just so deeply unhappy living 0:37:50.080 --> 0:37:53.600 that life, and I think that was probably the darkest 0:37:53.640 --> 0:37:56.600 time in my life, which eventually led to me leaving 0:37:56.640 --> 0:38:01.040 everything behind and going traveling. So it had a very 0:38:01.120 --> 0:38:04.960 positive end effect, but that's probably what it was. And 0:38:05.040 --> 0:38:07.320 I talk about this a lot more in my book, 0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:09.880 you know, I kind of describe what it was like 0:38:10.160 --> 0:38:12.520 and exactly what happened and just how dark it was. 0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:14.320 But again, it's it's. 0:38:14.200 --> 0:38:18.359 Amazing where these really really deeply dark moments can take 0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:20.120 you and how they can bring you back into the light. 0:38:21.160 --> 0:38:23.640 I want to touch on that in a bit, about 0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:26.040 how travel can lift you out of those things, but 0:38:26.080 --> 0:38:31.040 it's not a cure all necessarily, and how some things 0:38:31.080 --> 0:38:35.920 are deeper or deeply rooted and travel isn't necessarily going 0:38:35.960 --> 0:38:37.920 to be the cure all for that. But I want 0:38:37.960 --> 0:38:41.879 to talk about that in a second. Sure, yeah we're 0:38:41.920 --> 0:38:46.120 almost there, but yeah, best budget tip is the next 0:38:46.280 --> 0:38:47.320 rapid fire question. 0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:52.560 Best budget tip wild camping. 0:38:52.680 --> 0:38:55.720 I feel like that's probably a good tip is camping 0:38:55.760 --> 0:38:58.200 as much as possible if you've got a vehicle. Wild 0:38:58.280 --> 0:39:01.480 camping and the amazing places that we have in the world. 0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:05.080 Make your own food, cook your own meals on the road, 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:09.000 really immerse yourself in the kind of the spirit of 0:39:09.040 --> 0:39:09.960 like roughing it. 0:39:09.960 --> 0:39:12.440 It's so much fun. You do not need a shower 0:39:12.520 --> 0:39:15.960 every two days. You really don't. So I would say 0:39:16.040 --> 0:39:17.640 just like, yeah, just go. 0:39:17.600 --> 0:39:23.200 Deep into the raw and rugged kind of spirit of 0:39:23.239 --> 0:39:24.120 over lad and travel. 0:39:25.239 --> 0:39:27.719 Whenever I come back home, like say we're flying back 0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:30.239 for some reason, of which we try to do keep 0:39:30.280 --> 0:39:34.680 it to a minimum. I'm always shocked at hotel prices 0:39:34.960 --> 0:39:36.840 because I guess we're coming in once a year or something, 0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:41.040 and I'm honestly like, I don't know how people do this. No, 0:39:41.280 --> 0:39:44.240 they can book a trip staying in hotels and airbnbs 0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:48.279 because we're traveling on a budget as well. And so yeah, 0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:49.600 wild camping is a great tip. 0:39:50.280 --> 0:39:50.840 Absolutely. 0:39:52.560 --> 0:39:56.280 Last question, current favorite piece of gear. 0:39:57.719 --> 0:40:01.600 See, I'm not very good on gear stuff because I 0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:06.600 try and really keep gear to a minimum to really 0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:09.719 kind of keep the traveling pure and focused on the 0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:13.520 travel and not the gear. But if I had to 0:40:13.719 --> 0:40:17.640 pick something, it would probably be I'm I'm just gonna 0:40:17.640 --> 0:40:21.879 put something completely random out there. A silk pillowcase. There 0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:24.960 we go, a silk pillowcase. That's an essential piece. 0:40:24.760 --> 0:40:25.560 Of gear for me. 0:40:25.640 --> 0:40:28.400 Now, it's really good for your skin, it's great for 0:40:28.480 --> 0:40:30.120 your hair, and it's very comfortable. 0:40:30.440 --> 0:40:32.560 Why not, that's great? 0:40:32.680 --> 0:40:35.040 I always think of my favorite pieces of gear are 0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:38.240 always we like, I think, kind of weird, like maybe 0:40:38.239 --> 0:40:43.319 my little vacuum. I love my vacuum, I really love 0:40:43.360 --> 0:40:45.840 it a lot. And just things like that, but. 0:40:47.560 --> 0:40:52.280 Yeah, m M, good stuff, or like a nice lotion 0:40:52.840 --> 0:40:54.759 that makes you feel a little bit like, oh, this 0:40:54.840 --> 0:40:56.879 is just feels lovely. You know, you're out in desert, 0:40:56.920 --> 0:40:58.719 everything is really dry, and you're like, oh, but my 0:40:58.760 --> 0:40:59.600 skin is so soft. 0:41:01.680 --> 0:41:07.640 It's like the little luxuries, right, Yeah, I'm so powerful. Yeah, 0:41:07.840 --> 0:41:10.800 let's get back into your new book called The Wilder 0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:14.759 Way I just released. You're on a book tour. What 0:41:14.960 --> 0:41:16.600 inspired you to write this book? 0:41:18.320 --> 0:41:20.480 You know, I've always wanted to be a writer ever 0:41:20.520 --> 0:41:23.800 since I can remember, and since I started traveling and 0:41:24.719 --> 0:41:28.520 storytelling around my travels. I've kind of come to realize 0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:32.279 that a lot of the books that I've read, a 0:41:32.280 --> 0:41:34.360 lot of the narratives that I'm sure we all know, 0:41:34.600 --> 0:41:37.160 like you know, eat, Pray, Love and wild, like all 0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:40.960 the classic travel books that are directed at women and 0:41:41.000 --> 0:41:44.480 written by women, I've noticed that a lot of them, 0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:47.200 you know, there are great adventures, they're so fun to read, 0:41:47.239 --> 0:41:50.280 they're really, you know, really beautiful books, but they seem 0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:53.240 to end with, Okay, well, I'm done with my travels 0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:57.480 now and now I've found a husband, a partner, and 0:41:58.120 --> 0:41:59.480 this is it, and this is it for me. 0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:02.800 I've achieved nirvana. Basically, this is my life complete. 0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:05.920 And I guess I didn't fully agree with that narrative, 0:42:05.960 --> 0:42:08.320 and I just wanted to provide a slightly different perspective 0:42:08.800 --> 0:42:12.200 for someone who, like, personally, I like, I don't want 0:42:12.200 --> 0:42:14.720 to have kids, I don't think about having a family. 0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:17.160 I'm single, I really don't mind. 0:42:17.080 --> 0:42:20.840 And I kind of live this very wild life, you know, 0:42:21.000 --> 0:42:23.440 up on the top of a mountain with no running 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:25.400 power and of grid. 0:42:25.960 --> 0:42:29.719 So I thought I would really like to show. 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:32.680 That perspective of, you know, kind of a more independent 0:42:33.080 --> 0:42:36.640 person doing their thing, someone who doesn't really stop seeking, 0:42:36.960 --> 0:42:39.759 you know, always who just wants to make adventure and 0:42:40.200 --> 0:42:43.279 nature part of their life going forward, beyond the kind 0:42:43.280 --> 0:42:45.120 of travels that are in the book. And I just 0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:47.960 really wanted to give that perspective because I felt like 0:42:48.080 --> 0:42:50.360 I was liking it. When I was younger, I didn't 0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:53.200 even know that this kind of life was possible, that 0:42:53.239 --> 0:42:55.759 this kind of life was sustainable, and I kind of 0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:58.000 wish I had role models like that to show me 0:42:58.040 --> 0:43:00.120 that there is a different way to live life, that 0:43:00.160 --> 0:43:03.839 there is a different way to achieve success and happiness. 0:43:04.120 --> 0:43:06.480 It doesn't have to end with a white, big offense. 0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:10.319 So that's kind of why I wrote the book. That 0:43:10.400 --> 0:43:13.160 was a huge motivation for it was to be like, Okay, 0:43:13.200 --> 0:43:15.640 well this is also possible, you know, and it may 0:43:15.680 --> 0:43:18.120 not be conventional because it's a tiny little hut in 0:43:18.160 --> 0:43:20.640 the woods, but so yeah, but happiness could take on 0:43:20.680 --> 0:43:22.600 so many forms and there's not one way to live. 0:43:22.520 --> 0:43:27.120 Life, absolutely, and a lot of people probably look at 0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:29.720 that little cabin and they're like, that's my dream too, 0:43:30.000 --> 0:43:34.320 but I'm not necessarily living that dream right now. So yeah, 0:43:34.560 --> 0:43:37.680 I think the role model piece is super important, and 0:43:38.040 --> 0:43:42.920 I think also with your book, we were just alluding 0:43:42.960 --> 0:43:46.759 to it, but this concept of travel as a cure 0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:50.160 all because it can be in some ways for sure, 0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:53.080 but then in other ways there is deeper work to 0:43:53.120 --> 0:43:55.279 be done. Do you have thoughts on that? 0:43:56.160 --> 0:43:59.000 Yeah? Absolutely, I think it's such an important point and 0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:03.399 we do, I think, assume that travel will heal us 0:44:03.480 --> 0:44:06.000 and that will solve all of our problems. And I 0:44:06.080 --> 0:44:08.560 think that's also been propagated by this narrative that like 0:44:08.880 --> 0:44:10.240 travel is a great education. 0:44:10.560 --> 0:44:10.880 I don't know. 0:44:10.920 --> 0:44:12.880 I think it was Anthony Burday that said this, that 0:44:12.960 --> 0:44:16.000 you know, travel teaches you, it's the great the greatest teacher, 0:44:16.280 --> 0:44:19.480 which I don't fully agree with because I do feel 0:44:19.480 --> 0:44:22.839 like you could spend a lifetime traveling and not learn 0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:25.480 a thing and come back to the person with the 0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:29.759 exact same limited beliefs. I think the trick and the 0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:33.959 magic is when you allow yourself to open your heart, 0:44:34.120 --> 0:44:37.920 open your mind to other ways of living, to other people, 0:44:38.000 --> 0:44:40.560 to other perspectives, people that you may not agree with, 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:44.719 people whose lifestyles you may think are completely alien, or 0:44:44.880 --> 0:44:46.800 things that you could never ever pursue yourself. 0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:47.960 But that's the whole point. 0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:50.640 That you're exposing yourself and you're opening your heart and 0:44:50.680 --> 0:44:53.560 your mind to things that you never thought were possible. 0:44:53.719 --> 0:44:55.719 And so I do feel like. 0:44:55.960 --> 0:44:59.920 I went in there originally nine years ago, started traveling 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:03.760 with this idea, with this hope that I would find 0:45:03.960 --> 0:45:06.399 enlightenment on the top of a mountain at some point 0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:08.880 very soon, and that travel would help me find myself. 0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:12.239 And it's quite funny because nine years in, I'm like, 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:14.560 I can see very clearly now that I never. 0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:15.400 Did find myself. 0:45:15.719 --> 0:45:18.680 And I've really searched far and wide, been to all 0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:22.560 the continents, over ninety countries, did all the modes of travel, 0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:25.880 climbed all kinds of mountains, ran all kinds of ultra marathons. 0:45:26.280 --> 0:45:29.160 I really searched, but I never did find myself. And 0:45:29.360 --> 0:45:33.160 I realized, I think writing this book, that's the whole point. 0:45:33.640 --> 0:45:35.799 That's actually the whole point, that I never do want 0:45:35.840 --> 0:45:38.760 to find myself. I've been finding little pieces of myself 0:45:38.800 --> 0:45:42.560 along the way, little bits of myself that kind of 0:45:42.560 --> 0:45:46.319 shape who I am right now. But how boring would 0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:48.240 it be to completely stop searching? 0:45:48.320 --> 0:45:50.680 How boring would it be to actually find yourself and 0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:52.640 be that for the rest of your life? 0:45:52.719 --> 0:45:55.239 You know? So I love that travel takes us on 0:45:55.280 --> 0:45:58.600 this journey, but I think it's very, very important that 0:45:58.680 --> 0:46:02.239 we open ourselves up to it, and that's probably the 0:46:02.560 --> 0:46:04.520 piece that a lot of people don't really think about 0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:05.279 or GISs out on. 0:46:06.600 --> 0:46:08.759 If you let it. I love what you said there 0:46:08.800 --> 0:46:12.719 because it's almost like it's like overlanding too. It's not 0:46:12.800 --> 0:46:15.640 the destination, it's the journey. I don't want to be cliche, 0:46:15.760 --> 0:46:17.120 but that's what it sounded like. 0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:21.759 Yeah. I mean, if there's any cliche that is one 0:46:21.840 --> 0:46:24.360 hundred percent right, it is it. It's all about the 0:46:24.400 --> 0:46:27.839 journey and not the destination. Like, yeah, cliche, but it's 0:46:27.880 --> 0:46:28.440 so true. 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:29.640 It is so true. 0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:34.360 And I it was reading recently somewhere that if you 0:46:34.800 --> 0:46:39.959 see the journey as the if you see the experience 0:46:40.440 --> 0:46:43.959 as the whole point, the journey is the whole point, 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:47.359 then you can never fail, right because you're Even if 0:46:47.360 --> 0:46:50.680 you don't reach your final destination, that doesn't matter because 0:46:51.400 --> 0:46:54.520 the whole point is the experience that takes you towards it. 0:46:55.120 --> 0:46:56.399 So I love that. 0:46:57.239 --> 0:47:00.040 I love that too, And I feel like sometimes that 0:47:00.120 --> 0:47:03.040 really applies when people are like, are you driving around 0:47:03.040 --> 0:47:06.120 the world, and I'm like, I guess my accident kind 0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:08.719 of but maybe not. If we decide to backtrack at 0:47:08.719 --> 0:47:11.799 some point and don't get around the world completely, you know, 0:47:11.880 --> 0:47:16.880 but it's not. It's okay because it doesn't matter. 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:21.400 Yeah. True, it's so true. And you are driving around 0:47:21.400 --> 0:47:21.719 the world. 0:47:21.719 --> 0:47:25.320 You're driving across so many worlds and so many places 0:47:25.360 --> 0:47:27.359 in so many landscapes, and you're doing it in your 0:47:27.400 --> 0:47:30.480 own way, and that's beautiful because I think you know 0:47:30.520 --> 0:47:32.680 a lot of us we have this pressure that like, okay, 0:47:32.719 --> 0:47:34.480 you're going to go overlanding, so you have to do 0:47:34.520 --> 0:47:37.520 this massive trip all in one go, and you have 0:47:37.600 --> 0:47:40.920 to complete the Pan American you know, highway in the 0:47:40.920 --> 0:47:43.359 scope of one year, and that's that's an overlanding trip, 0:47:43.400 --> 0:47:45.720 whereas that's not really the case at all. The whole 0:47:45.760 --> 0:47:48.959 point of this is not to reach some arbitrary goal 0:47:49.520 --> 0:47:52.440 that is set by a map. The whole point of 0:47:52.440 --> 0:47:55.719 this is to have that experience, right, to let that 0:47:55.760 --> 0:48:00.680 experience transform you, to see places that people don't get 0:48:00.719 --> 0:48:04.440 to see, to meet people, have conversations and let them 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:06.840 change the way that you see the world and the 0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:07.840 reality around you. 0:48:08.360 --> 0:48:09.760 The whole point is learning. 0:48:10.480 --> 0:48:17.200 Right on that note, you have been on a book 0:48:17.280 --> 0:48:22.759 tour and lots of people have been coming to see you. 0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:27.320 What is it like being engaged with that many people 0:48:28.719 --> 0:48:33.040 in real life after you know, you've had a lot 0:48:33.080 --> 0:48:36.960 of online interaction. I'm sure, but it must be so 0:48:37.200 --> 0:48:41.200 incredible to have a lot of people face to face 0:48:41.440 --> 0:48:43.240 and having that interaction in person. 0:48:44.520 --> 0:48:48.400 Yeah, it's very surreal, I think for both. 0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:50.960 I mean, from what I've gathered, it's surreal for me, 0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:53.440 but it's also surreal for the people who come to 0:48:53.480 --> 0:48:56.360 these events, because you know, they've been following me on 0:48:56.400 --> 0:49:00.560 social media, they just see like a face on a screen, right, 0:49:00.680 --> 0:49:02.280 they don't, like, they. 0:49:02.160 --> 0:49:03.920 Don't see you in three D. 0:49:04.200 --> 0:49:05.879 So a lot of people came up to me during 0:49:05.880 --> 0:49:07.520 the book tour and they're like, oh my god, you're 0:49:08.239 --> 0:49:09.600 an actual, real human being. 0:49:09.680 --> 0:49:10.520 And I'm like you. 0:49:10.560 --> 0:49:14.279 Too, You're also an actual real human being and not 0:49:14.400 --> 0:49:19.200 just a DM. So it's been crazy but very It 0:49:19.320 --> 0:49:21.759 just makes you feel like, oh my god, what I'm 0:49:21.840 --> 0:49:25.400 doing actually riches people, and people actually like actual people, 0:49:25.480 --> 0:49:28.680 real human beings, you know, who also have their own 0:49:29.040 --> 0:49:32.399 lives and their own realities. And so it's been very 0:49:32.960 --> 0:49:36.120 empowering in some ways, like just to know that, oh 0:49:36.160 --> 0:49:39.800 my god, like we are an actual community of humans. 0:49:39.920 --> 0:49:42.760 How cool is that? So yeah, truly wonderful. 0:49:42.880 --> 0:49:47.040 And writing the book was a pretty solitary experience in 0:49:47.080 --> 0:49:49.200 many ways, because you know, you have to be there 0:49:49.440 --> 0:49:52.320 in your head, very focused for a long period of time. 0:49:52.480 --> 0:49:56.320 But sharing the book with the world has been extremely 0:49:56.840 --> 0:50:00.880 uplifting and very social. Yeah, one of probably the absolute 0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:03.240 highlights of my life. 0:50:03.320 --> 0:50:05.480 I would probably say, Actually. 0:50:06.400 --> 0:50:09.839 That's so wonderful because I were you nervous because it's 0:50:09.880 --> 0:50:12.120 like a vulnerable place to be and to share these 0:50:12.160 --> 0:50:15.200 personal details of your life with everybody, or were you 0:50:15.280 --> 0:50:16.080 like I'm ready. 0:50:17.640 --> 0:50:20.600 Yeah, it took me a while to figure out like 0:50:21.040 --> 0:50:22.880 how much I wanted to share in the book, like 0:50:22.920 --> 0:50:25.000 how much of my personal life. 0:50:25.200 --> 0:50:26.719 I wanted to dive deeper. 0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:29.200 Than I do on YouTube and on social media, of course, 0:50:29.400 --> 0:50:32.319 and I wanted to make that book quite vulnerable because 0:50:32.320 --> 0:50:34.479 I just knew that I needed to say certain things 0:50:34.520 --> 0:50:38.680 that I had never shared on socials. So yeah, it 0:50:38.719 --> 0:50:40.600 felt a little bit scary, and it still does a 0:50:40.600 --> 0:50:42.560 little bit, because there's things in that book that, you know, 0:50:43.080 --> 0:50:46.000 I know people might not like or might make. 0:50:45.880 --> 0:50:49.560 Me unlikable in their eyes. But that's the point. I guess. 0:50:49.600 --> 0:50:52.960 I've come to realize that you can't please everyone, and 0:50:53.000 --> 0:50:56.200 you shouldn't even try, and there will be people out 0:50:56.200 --> 0:51:00.320 there who dislike you for any reason, and that's okay. 0:51:01.080 --> 0:51:04.560 I think that's totally fine and legit, and that just 0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:06.960 makes you a real person. So yeah, it's a little scary, 0:51:07.000 --> 0:51:10.400 but I think, you know, knowing that people are reading 0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:13.279 the book and that it's already making even like a 0:51:13.320 --> 0:51:16.759 small difference in their lives, that's that's that just kind 0:51:16.760 --> 0:51:17.200 of makes it. 0:51:17.160 --> 0:51:19.160 All worth it. 0:51:19.320 --> 0:51:24.719 Fantastic congratulations, by the way, that's very exciting the book 0:51:24.760 --> 0:51:29.440 coming out, and I'm wondering what's next for you and 0:51:29.480 --> 0:51:31.840 where can we find you online? 0:51:32.080 --> 0:51:35.359 Well, next up, I've got well, I've got the you 0:51:35.440 --> 0:51:37.359 to finish up the book tour, so I've got that 0:51:37.400 --> 0:51:40.600 coming in the US and then Germany and Poland later 0:51:40.719 --> 0:51:41.160 in the year. 0:51:41.760 --> 0:51:44.000 But I want to spend the summer at home. 0:51:44.280 --> 0:51:46.760 I have two horses and I really want to spend 0:51:46.760 --> 0:51:49.319 time with them, you know. I you know, I've been 0:51:49.320 --> 0:51:51.319 doing a lot of overland travel, but I think I 0:51:51.360 --> 0:51:53.480 want to get into horseback travel a little bit now. 0:51:54.760 --> 0:51:58.279 So I want to be here in the Carpathians, cultivating 0:51:58.320 --> 0:52:01.279 my land and working with my horses. But yes, if 0:52:01.320 --> 0:52:04.200 you guys want to follow that, then you can go. 0:52:04.239 --> 0:52:06.200 To my Instagram or my YouTube. 0:52:07.040 --> 0:52:10.439 It's Ava Zubek on both of those platforms, or yay, 0:52:10.560 --> 0:52:13.360 or you can read my book on the Wilder Way. 0:52:14.200 --> 0:52:16.680 Awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to 0:52:16.800 --> 0:52:19.920 chat with me on the podcast. It's so great to 0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:24.000 check in get updated, and I look forward to hearing 0:52:24.000 --> 0:52:27.720 more about your future overland via horse plans. 0:52:29.640 --> 0:52:31.640 This isn't so much fun. Thank you so much. It's 0:52:31.719 --> 0:52:33.120 always lovely to chat with you. 0:52:34.120 --> 0:52:37.600 Hey, thank you so much to the Overland Journal podcast 0:52:37.600 --> 0:52:40.960 listeners for tuning into today's episode. We hope you enjoyed 0:52:40.960 --> 0:52:42.600 it and we'll catch you next time.