Speaker 1: Hi everyone, os Vloshin, co host of Sleepwalkers.
Speaker 2: Here.
Speaker 1: I know it's been a few years since our original
Speaker 1: series run, but I'm here with an exciting announcement. We
Speaker 1: are relaunching this feed, but instead of me and Karen
Speaker 1: Price's host since Karen and I and our partners in
Speaker 1: hosting tech Stuff, which is on twice a week check
Speaker 1: it out, We're bringing on journalists Dexa Thomas to shepherd
Speaker 1: the next iteration of this show. Dexter, Welcome, yo us.
Speaker 2: I'm very happy to be here with you and hopefully
Speaker 2: build on the original show, which I think in a
Speaker 2: lot of ways predicted where we're at right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we launched it in twenty nineteen, and you know,
Speaker 1: AI was already kind of bubbling, but we were starting
Speaker 1: to see these things that Karen and I called crash sites,
Speaker 1: where like a new technology and a real person would
Speaker 1: collide in a way that could be very traumatic or
Speaker 1: that could be kind of wonderful. I think everyone in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen was kind of still wondering though, like, is
Speaker 1: AI really going to become a thing, Like these trends
Speaker 1: are kind of going to be a like the metaverse?
Speaker 1: Or is this going to really take off, and I
Speaker 1: think since then it has taken off, and I think
Speaker 1: these these crash sites are going to become more and
Speaker 1: more important to explore.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, one of the reasons to relaunch the
Speaker 2: show is because a lot of what you were covering
Speaker 2: in the first iteration of the show, at that point
Speaker 2: it's still felt like the future. But now I think
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five, it's either here right now and
Speaker 2: it's kind of boring, or it's about to be. I mean,
Speaker 2: you all were discussed.
Speaker 1: Us ever great nun kidding, No, no.
Speaker 2: No, I mean, you know in the sense in the
Speaker 2: sense that oh Ai, yeah, I know about that, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean I think when when you all first started
Speaker 2: llm's was something that basically just a few computer science
Speaker 2: has had access to. I mean, you had to go
Speaker 2: and visit somebody and you know, talk about liar bird.
Speaker 2: I mean, liar Bird now is almost completely unremarkable because
Speaker 2: it's what we use to edit podcasts. It's just part
Speaker 2: of software that we use every day. And I think
Speaker 2: it's at this point so much of what you all
Speaker 2: were talking about as this is coming or this might
Speaker 2: come someday is completely normal, you know, and we almost
Speaker 2: don't think about it as technology anymore. And and so
Speaker 2: in some ways, you know, the way that you talk
Speaker 2: about the show, and the way that I think originally
Speaker 2: you two had been introducing the show is Okay, this
Speaker 2: is a show about the way that technology affects people's lives.
Speaker 2: It's almost hard to introduce a show as that now
Speaker 2: because it's it almost the response when I even try
Speaker 2: to tell people sometimes it's like sex sual. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 2: what are you going to talk about? Because I think
Speaker 2: technology has just become kind of the background hum of
Speaker 2: our everyday life. But I would argue that that's precisely
Speaker 2: why we need a show about how technology affects our lives,
Speaker 2: because it's still there. It's not just part of the background.
Speaker 2: It's it's something that we have choices about and that
Speaker 2: we really should be thinking about.
Speaker 1: I think that's really well put. What kinds of things
Speaker 1: you interested in exploring on the show?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I know that one of your first episodes
Speaker 2: actually was about facial recognition. You go visit the NYPD,
Speaker 2: and you know, NYPD obviously massive police department, very technologically adept,
Speaker 2: and they promise you that, hey, listen, we're using facial
Speaker 2: recognition very carefully. We're very serious about it. And back
Speaker 2: then it seemed like something Okay, well only the most
Speaker 2: advanced police departments have this, and well they say they're
Speaker 2: being careful with it. Now this is something that rural
Speaker 2: police departments all across America have access to, and it's
Speaker 2: putting innocent people in jail, and so I think that's
Speaker 2: really something we should be thinking about. And we talk
Speaker 2: to a reporter who's covered it, and we hear actually
Speaker 2: from some people that this is affected who've been arrested
Speaker 2: because the computer thought they did something and they weren't
Speaker 2: even in the area. There's another episode of Working on
Speaker 2: which shows you how people are making money doing things
Speaker 2: like generating fake AI videos of natural disasters or baby animals,
Speaker 2: and you know, another thing, and maybe this is just
Speaker 2: a personal thing for me. I feel like the DIY
Speaker 2: and the hacker ethos has kind of left tech and
Speaker 2: hopefully we can at least bring that back a little
Speaker 2: bit or provide a place for that can come back.
Speaker 2: And I think there's some more practical stuff too, like
Speaker 2: how can you mitigate the risk that you're gonna get
Speaker 2: hacked again. I think these are things that just have
Speaker 2: kind of passed us by in terms of we've gotten
Speaker 2: really used to, Oh well, just let Apple handle this
Speaker 2: for us, just let Google handle this. Firust No, let's
Speaker 2: do this ourselves. That's what makes this technology stuff fun,
Speaker 2: at least for me.
Speaker 1: I think you're you're exactly right. So I'm really happy
Speaker 1: that you're taking a show on.
Speaker 2: There's a few places where hopefully we're picking up the
Speaker 2: baton a little bit in something that you predicted a
Speaker 2: little bit, and we're able to keep that going and say, Okay,
Speaker 2: here's where we are right now. This is no longer
Speaker 2: science fiction. This is your everyday life. What are we
Speaker 2: going to do about this?
Speaker 1: We call the original show Sleepwalkers. There was actually a
Speaker 1: book about the origins of the First World War with
Speaker 1: that title, and part of the thesis was that, you know,
Speaker 1: you had this moment where the industrial revolution had happened,
Speaker 1: and so you had like trains and telegraphs and gas
Speaker 1: and automatic weapons, and all of a sudden there was
Speaker 1: a conflict that got bigger and bigger and bigger, and
Speaker 1: all of these technologies that kind of existed as one
Speaker 1: offs coalesced on the battlefield and we'll use, you know,
Speaker 1: to create carnage and kill millions of millions of people.
Speaker 1: So the name was a little bit of a warning,
Speaker 1: is to say, like, these new technologies are here, even
Speaker 1: if they're still hiding in plain sight. You, as part
Speaker 1: of the of the rebrand and the relaunch, I think,
Speaker 1: have chosen a new name.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're calling it kill switch. And I'm going
Speaker 2: to mix metaphors here a little bit, so bear with me.
Speaker 2: But you know a kill switch. I think we all
Speaker 2: know what that is. Basically, it's a safety mechanism for
Speaker 2: if a machine starts going nuts, you can disable it.
Speaker 2: And I think some of the inspiration behind the name
Speaker 2: is it theoretically, these are all machines, these are computers.
Speaker 2: We can turn these off, right, but it's really hard
Speaker 2: to imagine turning it off now. And to borrow from
Speaker 2: what your iteration of the show was doing, is I
Speaker 2: think we've actually sleep walked up to a point where
Speaker 2: we don't even know where the switch is anymore. If
Speaker 2: we wanted to turn it off, we don't know where
Speaker 2: it is. And I think the show that you were
Speaker 2: hosting kind of predicted this, is that we're in this
Speaker 2: really interesting paradox where the more user friendly technology gets
Speaker 2: the less tech literate we are, and I want to
Speaker 2: continue to interrogate that and say, no, don't just offer
Speaker 2: me these fun new products. Don't just cram AI to everything.
Speaker 2: I want to know how this stuff works. And I
Speaker 2: think we should continue to ask that question. And you know,
Speaker 2: maybe we need to start looking for the kill.
Speaker 1: Switch very well put deck. So I already can't wait
Speaker 1: to hit the show and feel come and tech stuff
Speaker 1: one of these days as well to tell us about
Speaker 1: the show. When isn't it Stride? But in the meantime,
Speaker 1: when's it launch?
Speaker 2: First off, I would love to and please, the door
Speaker 2: is always open. You made the door. Please come on
Speaker 2: in anytime you want. But yeah, first episode drops April
Speaker 2: twenty third, and anywhere you get your podcasts you can
Speaker 2: listen to it.