WEBVTT - Sleepwalkers Is Back 

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<v Speaker 1>Hi everyone, os Vloshin, co host of Sleepwalkers.

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<v Speaker 2>Here.

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<v Speaker 1>I know it's been a few years since our original

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<v Speaker 1>series run, but I'm here with an exciting announcement. We

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<v Speaker 1>are relaunching this feed, but instead of me and Karen

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<v Speaker 1>Price's host since Karen and I and our partners in

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<v Speaker 1>hosting tech Stuff, which is on twice a week check

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<v Speaker 1>it out, We're bringing on journalists Dexa Thomas to shepherd

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<v Speaker 1>the next iteration of this show. Dexter, Welcome, yo us.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm very happy to be here with you and hopefully

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<v Speaker 2>build on the original show, which I think in a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of ways predicted where we're at right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we launched it in twenty nineteen, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>AI was already kind of bubbling, but we were starting

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<v Speaker 1>to see these things that Karen and I called crash sites,

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<v Speaker 1>where like a new technology and a real person would

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<v Speaker 1>collide in a way that could be very traumatic or

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<v Speaker 1>that could be kind of wonderful. I think everyone in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty nineteen was kind of still wondering though, like, is

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<v Speaker 1>AI really going to become a thing, Like these trends

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<v Speaker 1>are kind of going to be a like the metaverse?

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<v Speaker 1>Or is this going to really take off, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think since then it has taken off, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>these these crash sites are going to become more and

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<v Speaker 1>more important to explore.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, one of the reasons to relaunch the

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<v Speaker 2>show is because a lot of what you were covering

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<v Speaker 2>in the first iteration of the show, at that point

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<v Speaker 2>it's still felt like the future. But now I think

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty five, it's either here right now and

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<v Speaker 2>it's kind of boring, or it's about to be. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you all were discussed.

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<v Speaker 1>Us ever great nun kidding, No, no.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I mean, you know in the sense in the

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<v Speaker 2>sense that oh Ai, yeah, I know about that, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I think when when you all first started

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<v Speaker 2>llm's was something that basically just a few computer science

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<v Speaker 2>has had access to. I mean, you had to go

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<v Speaker 2>and visit somebody and you know, talk about liar bird.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, liar Bird now is almost completely unremarkable because

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<v Speaker 2>it's what we use to edit podcasts. It's just part

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<v Speaker 2>of software that we use every day. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's at this point so much of what you all

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<v Speaker 2>were talking about as this is coming or this might

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<v Speaker 2>come someday is completely normal, you know, and we almost

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<v Speaker 2>don't think about it as technology anymore. And and so

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<v Speaker 2>in some ways, you know, the way that you talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the show, and the way that I think originally

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<v Speaker 2>you two had been introducing the show is Okay, this

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<v Speaker 2>is a show about the way that technology affects people's lives.

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<v Speaker 2>It's almost hard to introduce a show as that now

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<v Speaker 2>because it's it almost the response when I even try

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<v Speaker 2>to tell people sometimes it's like sex sual. Yeah, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>what are you going to talk about? Because I think

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<v Speaker 2>technology has just become kind of the background hum of

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<v Speaker 2>our everyday life. But I would argue that that's precisely

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<v Speaker 2>why we need a show about how technology affects our lives,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's still there. It's not just part of the background.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's something that we have choices about and that

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<v Speaker 2>we really should be thinking about.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's really well put. What kinds of things

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<v Speaker 1>you interested in exploring on the show?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so I know that one of your first episodes

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<v Speaker 2>actually was about facial recognition. You go visit the NYPD,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, NYPD obviously massive police department, very technologically adept,

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<v Speaker 2>and they promise you that, hey, listen, we're using facial

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<v Speaker 2>recognition very carefully. We're very serious about it. And back

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<v Speaker 2>then it seemed like something Okay, well only the most

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<v Speaker 2>advanced police departments have this, and well they say they're

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<v Speaker 2>being careful with it. Now this is something that rural

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<v Speaker 2>police departments all across America have access to, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>putting innocent people in jail, and so I think that's

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<v Speaker 2>really something we should be thinking about. And we talk

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<v Speaker 2>to a reporter who's covered it, and we hear actually

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<v Speaker 2>from some people that this is affected who've been arrested

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<v Speaker 2>because the computer thought they did something and they weren't

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<v Speaker 2>even in the area. There's another episode of Working on

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<v Speaker 2>which shows you how people are making money doing things

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<v Speaker 2>like generating fake AI videos of natural disasters or baby animals,

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, another thing, and maybe this is just

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<v Speaker 2>a personal thing for me. I feel like the DIY

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<v Speaker 2>and the hacker ethos has kind of left tech and

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<v Speaker 2>hopefully we can at least bring that back a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit or provide a place for that can come back.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think there's some more practical stuff too, like

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<v Speaker 2>how can you mitigate the risk that you're gonna get

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<v Speaker 2>hacked again. I think these are things that just have

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<v Speaker 2>kind of passed us by in terms of we've gotten

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<v Speaker 2>really used to, Oh well, just let Apple handle this

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<v Speaker 2>for us, just let Google handle this. Firust No, let's

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<v Speaker 2>do this ourselves. That's what makes this technology stuff fun,

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<v Speaker 2>at least for me.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you're you're exactly right. So I'm really happy

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<v Speaker 1>that you're taking a show on.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a few places where hopefully we're picking up the

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<v Speaker 2>baton a little bit in something that you predicted a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit, and we're able to keep that going and say, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>here's where we are right now. This is no longer

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<v Speaker 2>science fiction. This is your everyday life. What are we

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<v Speaker 2>going to do about this?

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<v Speaker 1>We call the original show Sleepwalkers. There was actually a

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<v Speaker 1>book about the origins of the First World War with

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<v Speaker 1>that title, and part of the thesis was that, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you had this moment where the industrial revolution had happened,

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<v Speaker 1>and so you had like trains and telegraphs and gas

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<v Speaker 1>and automatic weapons, and all of a sudden there was

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<v Speaker 1>a conflict that got bigger and bigger and bigger, and

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<v Speaker 1>all of these technologies that kind of existed as one

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<v Speaker 1>offs coalesced on the battlefield and we'll use, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to create carnage and kill millions of millions of people.

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<v Speaker 1>So the name was a little bit of a warning,

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<v Speaker 1>is to say, like, these new technologies are here, even

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<v Speaker 1>if they're still hiding in plain sight. You, as part

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<v Speaker 1>of the of the rebrand and the relaunch, I think,

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<v Speaker 1>have chosen a new name.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we're calling it kill switch. And I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to mix metaphors here a little bit, so bear with me.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know a kill switch. I think we all

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<v Speaker 2>know what that is. Basically, it's a safety mechanism for

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<v Speaker 2>if a machine starts going nuts, you can disable it.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think some of the inspiration behind the name

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<v Speaker 2>is it theoretically, these are all machines, these are computers.

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<v Speaker 2>We can turn these off, right, but it's really hard

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<v Speaker 2>to imagine turning it off now. And to borrow from

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<v Speaker 2>what your iteration of the show was doing, is I

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<v Speaker 2>think we've actually sleep walked up to a point where

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<v Speaker 2>we don't even know where the switch is anymore. If

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<v Speaker 2>we wanted to turn it off, we don't know where

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<v Speaker 2>it is. And I think the show that you were

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<v Speaker 2>hosting kind of predicted this, is that we're in this

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<v Speaker 2>really interesting paradox where the more user friendly technology gets

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<v Speaker 2>the less tech literate we are, and I want to

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<v Speaker 2>continue to interrogate that and say, no, don't just offer

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<v Speaker 2>me these fun new products. Don't just cram AI to everything.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to know how this stuff works. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think we should continue to ask that question. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe we need to start looking for the kill.

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<v Speaker 1>Switch very well put deck. So I already can't wait

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<v Speaker 1>to hit the show and feel come and tech stuff

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<v Speaker 1>one of these days as well to tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>the show. When isn't it Stride? But in the meantime,

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<v Speaker 1>when's it launch?

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<v Speaker 2>First off, I would love to and please, the door

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<v Speaker 2>is always open. You made the door. Please come on

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<v Speaker 2>in anytime you want. But yeah, first episode drops April

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<v Speaker 2>twenty third, and anywhere you get your podcasts you can

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<v Speaker 2>listen to it.