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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney. Alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day, we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I want to get

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Speaker 1: to an old friend of mine, one of my old

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Speaker 1: favorite guests, UM, with whom whom I haven't spoken with since, uh,

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Speaker 1: since I moved here. Bill Rhodes joins us. He used

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Speaker 1: to be the chairman of City and UM. He wrote

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Speaker 1: the book Banker to the World, which I read, uh

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Speaker 1: when I was a young buck in my thirties, and

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Speaker 1: then Kathleen Hayes introduced us. I was I was starstruck

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Speaker 1: a bit, but um, I've got to know him. Bill.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us. It's been it's been

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Speaker 1: too long. UM. Let me ask your take first of all,

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Speaker 1: in the situation we find ourselves in now, it's so

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Speaker 1: different than you know. Last time I spoke to you,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, um hadn't even been elected, and central bank

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Speaker 1: balance well, the FED balance sheet was was only only

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Speaker 1: at four and a half trillion dollars. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we weren't looking at any kind of stimulus beyond the

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Speaker 1: hundreds of billions we had in tarp. Now we're looking

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Speaker 1: at seven and a half trillion from the Central Bank

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Speaker 1: or in the on the FED balance sheet, and uh,

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Speaker 1: four and a half trillion now six and a half

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Speaker 1: trillion in stimulus. Um. What does that mean to you? Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, Matt, it's great to be talking to

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Speaker 1: the UN after so long a time, and uh, congratulations

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Speaker 1: on your family, your situation, father, and all of that.

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Speaker 1: I think when you take a look at the FED

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Speaker 1: balance sheet before the Great Recession, it was eight hundred billion.

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Speaker 1: It went to four four point five point seven. Uh,

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Speaker 1: then they started tapering down, and now it's seven and

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Speaker 1: a half as you point out, to eight plus. We

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Speaker 1: have massive stimulus on the on the on the physical side,

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Speaker 1: with this new stimulus built of a of a one

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Speaker 1: point nine trillion, and so I think this is being

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Speaker 1: replicated also in Europe, in China, in Japan, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I think we're revving up the world economy. In the

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Speaker 1: US is supposed to grow at least six percent this year.

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Speaker 1: Some people think six and a half seven some even

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Speaker 1: say eight percent. Uh China sent Europe is a laggered.

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Speaker 1: But my concern is we're seeing this tremendous search and

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Speaker 1: reach for you that every time I've seen before causes

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Speaker 1: problems because eventually the FED is going to have to

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Speaker 1: tighten and the rest of the central banks of the

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Speaker 1: world will have to And when you see tightening, that

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Speaker 1: means rates going up because you have a inflation starting

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Speaker 1: to move from where it's been so low for the

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Speaker 1: last few years. Uh So my concern is where we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be two years from now if the FED doesn't

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Speaker 1: start taking measures at some point in time. So, Bill,

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Speaker 1: how concerned are you? How concerned should we be about

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Speaker 1: this debt we are taking on. I mean, we always

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Speaker 1: talk about it and somebody's got to pay it back,

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Speaker 1: our kids, our grandchildren. When does it become a real

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Speaker 1: fundamental problem in your mind? Well, I think right now

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Speaker 1: the government is doing what it has to do. And

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Speaker 1: I'm a big admirer of Janet Helen, She's a friend,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, for the moment, that's fine, but

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Speaker 1: I think we have to be realistic. If we continue

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Speaker 1: this for another year, eighteen months, I think we could

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Speaker 1: get ourselves into real difficult situation. Already, the People's Bank

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Speaker 1: of China is talking about tapering down because they are

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Speaker 1: in a bubble on the real estate area, and they've

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Speaker 1: moved their estimates for this year's growth from eight to

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Speaker 1: six percent because they realize they have to start cutting back.

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Speaker 1: The real danger is that we don't cut back and

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Speaker 1: two years from now we face a real real problem

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Speaker 1: with another blow up. Well, I wonder about, um, what

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Speaker 1: what the poorer countries are looking at? Mean, we talk

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Speaker 1: a lot about I've see America because we lived there,

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Speaker 1: or in the or the West because we lived there.

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Speaker 1: But you cut your teeth in Latin America. Um, you

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Speaker 1: ran the bank's business in lad Am and Africa? And

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Speaker 1: what do you think about these economies that have it

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Speaker 1: so much worse? What's going to happen to them? And

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Speaker 1: is this inequality that already is they're gonna gonna grow

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Speaker 1: even further. That's one of my biggest concerns, Matt, because

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Speaker 1: and I just came out with a piece this morning

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Speaker 1: on vaccines for debt, because I am so concerned that

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Speaker 1: there is not the financing to really uh purchase from

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Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical companies enough vaccines to inoculate the emerging markets

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Speaker 1: Latin America, Africa, parts of Southeast Asia and so the

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Speaker 1: the emerging markets, uh, you know, always catch a cold

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Speaker 1: here after we sneeze, because what happens is that interest

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Speaker 1: rates tend to go up. They have a lot of

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Speaker 1: in currency debt. Uh, they have problems, uh you know,

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Speaker 1: paying back. Just think of Latin American debt crisis when

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Speaker 1: Voker raised interest rates in two and the Asian financial

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Speaker 1: crisis in the nineties. In other words, I've seen this

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Speaker 1: movie with different subtitles too many times. And hopefully the

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Speaker 1: powers that be at the FED and on the fiscal

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Speaker 1: side boat here Europe. China's I said, already is talking

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Speaker 1: about cutting back. Some in Japan do so because the

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Speaker 1: ones that will suffer the most, particularly after this horrendous

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Speaker 1: uh uh you know COVID vaccine problem that you're you're

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Speaker 1: facing with a pandemic in the emerging world. I think

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Speaker 1: too little attention is being given to financing these countries

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Speaker 1: to buy the proper purchase of vaccines. Well, and I

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Speaker 1: just want to make the point that it's not just

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Speaker 1: that they're poorer and worse off. It's not just that

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Speaker 1: they're uh struck by this disease and and and people

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Speaker 1: die and as human tragedy. Bill, But obviously, um, that

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Speaker 1: leads to social unrest the likes of which you've witnessed.

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Speaker 1: You know all too often that leads to problems for

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Speaker 1: the entire world. So it's not just localized, say Venezuela

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Speaker 1: gets hit hard, which they're definitely likely to do. It's

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Speaker 1: not just Venezuela's problem. It's everyone's problem, without a doubt.

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Speaker 1: If we do not take care of supplying the funding

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Speaker 1: for the through kovacs or whatever program. World Bank and

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Speaker 1: American Development Bank are my suggestion of debt for vaccines,

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Speaker 1: the already problem economies of the emerging markets are going

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Speaker 1: to get horrendous. So I am most concerned. Bill talked

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Speaker 1: to us about your plan for vaccines and debt for vaccines.

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Speaker 1: What just gives a sense of what that what you

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Speaker 1: mean by that? Well, Uh, I helped put together the

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Speaker 1: original schemes of debt for equity when the Latin American

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Speaker 1: debt crisis took play, and then years later you had

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Speaker 1: debt for nature. Uh you know you had also uh

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Speaker 1: debt for health and and basically what it is is

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Speaker 1: the pharmaceutical companies agree to accept UH local currency debt

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Speaker 1: UH to provide the vaccines, and then they take uh

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Speaker 1: the local currency either invested in the country UH if

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Speaker 1: they have if they have an operation there, or they

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Speaker 1: sell it to somebody on the open market, or they

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Speaker 1: just decide to keep it. And this will I think

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Speaker 1: UH also enlarge the program of kovacs which the G

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Speaker 1: twenty governments put forward, and the work of the international

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Speaker 1: financial institutions. But we've got to do it now. We

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Speaker 1: can't just wait because as we all know, UH, we

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Speaker 1: may cover uh, you know, vaccines here in the United

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Speaker 1: States and in Europe and in China and Japan, but

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Speaker 1: the world is uh is now in a situation like

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Speaker 1: it wasn't in uh you know, in nineteen eighteen, nineteen

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Speaker 1: and twenty, in a sense of travel. And if you

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Speaker 1: have this problem exists in one part of the world,

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Speaker 1: it'll migrate to another. So we must look at this

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Speaker 1: as an international problem, not just as a domestic problem.

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Speaker 1: And UH that's what really concerns me here. All right, Bill,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: As always, it's great to check up with you, check

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Speaker 1: in with you, get your latest thoughts, particularly as relates

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Speaker 1: to Latin America. Bill has got so much experience there.

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Speaker 1: Bill Rhodes, He's the president CEO of William R. Rhodes

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Speaker 1: Global Adviser's former chairman of City Bank, and man, I

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Speaker 1: love talking to Bill. His perspective is just extraordinary. His

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Speaker 1: experiences is unparalleled. And we really yes the book Banker

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Speaker 1: to the World. I can't recommend reading that enough. And

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Speaker 1: he also wrote an op ed with Stuart McIntosh, who

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Speaker 1: heads the G thirty. You can check that out on

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Speaker 1: Project Syndicate dot org. Yeah, and he just brings up

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Speaker 1: a really key issue about Latin America trying and emerging

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Speaker 1: markets in general trying to get them there. Uh doses,

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about something near and dear to my heart,

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Speaker 1: and that is tacos. Tacos Germany. Um. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: make tacos almost on a weekly basis, so it's not

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Speaker 1: super easy to get um everything you need for it.

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Speaker 1: But I've got a specialty food store. Uh oddly it's

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Speaker 1: an American food store, and I guess tacos should be

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Speaker 1: considered Mexican. I'm I'm not sure. Let's ask somebody who knows.

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Speaker 1: Jason Cappsola joins us, the CEO of Del Taco. Um, Jason,

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Speaker 1: let me first start by asking what the pandemic was

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Speaker 1: like for for you and your franchisees, and what the outlook, Um,

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Speaker 1: what's the outlook? Now? Hey? Well sorry John, John, John,

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Speaker 1: I didn't need to call you, Jason, all right. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't going to that. I was going to correct you.

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Speaker 1: But I'll take it. Don't just roll with it. You know,

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Speaker 1: if I say something wrong, you can correct me. John

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Speaker 1: Capsola Jr. Al Right, well take it. Um, let me

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Speaker 1: tell talk about the pandemic a little bit. Obviously was

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Speaker 1: a challenging operating environment for everyone. Um, we were really

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Speaker 1: proud of our team here at Del Taco. Our restaurant

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Speaker 1: teams are, our franchisees, are support center staff, and and really, um,

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Speaker 1: how we success successfully continue to navigate through a really

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Speaker 1: challenging environment. That is, you know that many of us

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Speaker 1: have not had to face in our lifetimes. So you know, UM,

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Speaker 1: we leaned into our core values and make sure our

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Speaker 1: employees and guests felt comfortable through through our trusted and

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Speaker 1: safe initiatives, and and we continued to operate through our

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Speaker 1: drive throughs and our takeout capability. And we also had

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Speaker 1: a channel in delivery delivery that was rapidly expanding. I

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Speaker 1: mean delivery grew three to four times during the pandemic,

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Speaker 1: so plenty of service modes and options for consumers to

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Speaker 1: access the brand. We tried to take advantage of all

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Speaker 1: of them. Even though our dining rooms were closed down,

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Speaker 1: we were able to get back to positive same store

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Speaker 1: sales growth in Q three and Q four. UM really

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Speaker 1: saw our franchise business, which represent Sense a larger geographic

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Speaker 1: footprint for US around fifteen states, accelerate UM sequentially from

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Speaker 1: Q three to Q four in that mid single digit range.

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Speaker 1: And actually I finished their eighth consecutive year of positive

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Speaker 1: same source sales growth. So from an outlook perspective, and

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Speaker 1: I look at one, we talked about continuing to grow

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Speaker 1: our same store sales and our a v S through

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Speaker 1: our five drivers of of acceleration that we've outlined, and

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Speaker 1: and UM having modest you know, restaurant contribution, margin expansion

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Speaker 1: UM out that will lead to even of growth. In

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Speaker 1: John talk to us, I know you have a lot

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Speaker 1: of exposure to the state of California, and California is

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Speaker 1: really aggressive and shutting down restaurants, so I'm guessing that

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Speaker 1: was good news for you know, the del Tacos of

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Speaker 1: the world, you know, fast food or drive through business.

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Speaker 1: Talk to us how much that was a a tail

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Speaker 1: wind for you during the pandemic and and to what

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Speaker 1: extent will that be a headwind going forward? Sure, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's definitely put some takes in regards to that dynamic.

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Speaker 1: And California, where we have a heavy opera reading footprint,

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Speaker 1: clearly was very restrictive and we saw, um, as we

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Speaker 1: talked about on our earnings call, markets in California counties

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Speaker 1: in California that we're very restrictive where we're we were

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Speaker 1: still running on the company side of the house negative

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Speaker 1: same store sales in Q four and despite that we

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Speaker 1: were able to overcome through performance and all of our

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Speaker 1: other markets, um, you know, positive the same store sales

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Speaker 1: in Q four on the company business and uh it clearly,

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Speaker 1: as I stated, franchise has been very positive for some

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Speaker 1: time now over a broader geographic footprints. So so we

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Speaker 1: feel good about how we're positioned moving forward. Listen, there

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Speaker 1: there will be a dynamic shift here as as um Obviously,

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Speaker 1: vaccines get out and guests feel a lot more comfortable

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Speaker 1: getting back out and about and being more active, and

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Speaker 1: and and and we think that that's a good thing overall.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you think about UM folks returning to

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Speaker 1: school on a more regular basis, day and day out,

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Speaker 1: going to work, you know, movie theaters opening back up.

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Speaker 1: Normal activity is starting to happen in the environment around us.

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Speaker 1: That is a great thing for all restaurants, and specifically

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Speaker 1: for quick service restaurants. I think about that from a

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Speaker 1: standpoint of value and convenience. I mean, the convenience that

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Speaker 1: people need when they're on the go is pervasive in

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Speaker 1: our category. We deliver on that. And then obviously, UM

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Speaker 1: guests always need good value, So I think we're well positioned. Well.

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Speaker 1: I wonder how, UM, you know, how sticky the behavior

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Speaker 1: we've learned through the pandemic is going to be after

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Speaker 1: you have a new store design fresh Flex, which I

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Speaker 1: guess um takes advantage of a pandemic situation. Rights, it's

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Speaker 1: much easier to drive through, you've got two lanes, UM,

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Speaker 1: it's much easier to have a third party deliver, You've

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Speaker 1: got a special UM area for that station for third

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Speaker 1: party pickup. Is this gonna stick? Do you think fresh

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Speaker 1: Flex is going to be more successful in places than

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Speaker 1: your typical and your traditional restaurant. Listen, I think that

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Speaker 1: it needs to be a portfolio prout approach. And the

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Speaker 1: great thing about or the silver lining I should say

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Speaker 1: that occurred through this pandemic is that guests really and

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Speaker 1: consumers figure it out. They they they you know, adopted technology,

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Speaker 1: use technology to access the brands that they love where

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Speaker 1: they could and UM, certainly with the growth and delivery

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Speaker 1: and off premise in our category, that was pretty evident.

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Speaker 1: So fresh Flex definitely takes advantage of that and integrates

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Speaker 1: technology well throughout our prototypes. But the bigger piece is

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Speaker 1: as we lean in towards franchise growth across the country, UM,

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll be able to offer our active developers really

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Speaker 1: a portfolio MENUA venues initiative that we call it, where

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Speaker 1: you can build restaurants from from twelve square foot drive

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Speaker 1: through only buildings all the way up to a standard

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Speaker 1: build out dining room and UM that gives you more

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Speaker 1: access to real estate and gives you the opportunity to

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Speaker 1: be a bit more entrepreneurial in the way that you're

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Speaker 1: thinking about build out. So we think that matches the

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Speaker 1: environment from a consumer and a real estate perspective. Hey, John,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate your

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Speaker 1: thoughts here. John Kappa Sola, Junior CEO of Del Taco,

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Speaker 1: that's a publicly traded company on nastak Great Sybil t

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Speaker 1: a c O. You know, we talked last hour about

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Speaker 1: the taco business. Now we're talking barbecue. And the reason

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Speaker 1: we're talking barbecue is because the great State of Texas

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Speaker 1: is reopening fully today, no mask mandate anymore. What does

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Speaker 1: that mean for business and life in Texas? And what

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Speaker 1: better place to talk about it than Lexington, Texas. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk to Carrie Bexley. Carry is the owner of

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Speaker 1: Snows Barbecue, some infamous famous barbecue Lexic and Texas. I

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Speaker 1: looked at my Google maps, uh, Matt, and again, Lexing

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Speaker 1: and Texas is literally equidice between Austin, Texas and college

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Speaker 1: stage and so uh just extraordinary. Carrie, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining us here. I'd love to get your thoughts

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Speaker 1: on what the reopening move in your state of Texas,

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Speaker 1: what that's gonna be for your business. Well, we're we're

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Speaker 1: taking it pretty slow. We're kind of skeptical of a

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Speaker 1: few things. And again, hopefully blessed to get back to

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Speaker 1: normal activities at some point. But again, we're just kind

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Speaker 1: of taking it slow and a few changes at a time.

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Speaker 1: I'm worried about your pit master. Tootsie is uh, well,

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Speaker 1: she's got to be eighty four, eighty five years old,

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Speaker 1: and she's got to be one of the most famous

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Speaker 1: pit masters now in the world. How she's how she

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Speaker 1: survived through COVID, Well, she's continued to kind of operate

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Speaker 1: it normal again, the social distancing and the mask wearing,

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Speaker 1: she's done that. And again a lot of our reactions

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Speaker 1: stems from her and a couple other employees that are

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Speaker 1: including myself, that are own up in age. But she's

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Speaker 1: she's doing great. She's uh like you said, she's eighty five,

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Speaker 1: will be eighty six here, I think in April and

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Speaker 1: uh man, and we we just want to clone her

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Speaker 1: and find some more that can can keep going like

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Speaker 1: she does. But again that's the reason we're, like I said,

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Speaker 1: some of our precautions. We're just taking it slow and

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Speaker 1: not just gonna flip the switch overnight and drop all

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Speaker 1: our gold. How's how's gonna work here? I mean, you

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Speaker 1: only open on Saturdays anyway, so you gotta worry about

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Speaker 1: one day a week you open, I guess eight ish

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Speaker 1: eight o'clock, right, do you tell people they have to

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Speaker 1: stay uh, you know, six ft away from each other?

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Speaker 1: Are only letting people in with masks, even though they're

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Speaker 1: allowed to come in without a mask, Like, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing? Uh? Our line? We don't regulate it very

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Speaker 1: very closely. I mean, everybody use their own best judgment.

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Speaker 1: But once we enter our building, and again we're pretty small,

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Speaker 1: our quarters are pretty tight. When you enter the build

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Speaker 1: into order and get your barbecue, it's uh, mask a

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Speaker 1: required and we're going to continue to to leave that

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Speaker 1: in place at this time. I mean, everybody's kind of adapted.

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Speaker 1: We've had no problems. Again, the Barbecue family is just

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Speaker 1: uh second to none as far as good quality people.

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Speaker 1: We haven't had any you know, like I said, any

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Speaker 1: red flags or any problems with that, and we're going

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Speaker 1: to leave that in place at this time. Carrie, tell

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Speaker 1: us about how your business was impacted. You know, we're

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Speaker 1: we've been twelve months into this pandemic here almost to

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Speaker 1: the day. Here. It gives a sense of how your

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Speaker 1: pissess changed. March of last year, Well, it was just

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Speaker 1: kind of an overnight switch and when you know, at

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Speaker 1: first we were really curious just to see what kind

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Speaker 1: of crowd we would have and and it was just

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Speaker 1: overwhelming and how good it was when it first hit.

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Speaker 1: And then the wife and I got to talking and

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Speaker 1: our schools had shut down and everything, and and nine

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Speaker 1: of our clientele is out of country, out of state,

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Speaker 1: out of town, and you know, with our school shut down,

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Speaker 1: we didn't want to be bringing the people into our town.

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Speaker 1: So at that time, we made the decision to close

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Speaker 1: UH in March of last year, and we were closed

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Speaker 1: UH completely from March until November. UH. All we focused

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Speaker 1: on was our online shipping. It increased. We were fortunate

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Speaker 1: enough to have that already in place and stoop holes

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Speaker 1: and Nate and it increased, UH dramatically really and you know,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of like almost a Christmas rush. Again.

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Speaker 1: I had to you know, revamp them and be able

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Speaker 1: to keep up. And UM, it's been that way kind

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Speaker 1: of the whole time. Our online business has picked up.

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Speaker 1: And does what I want to hear about that, Kerry,

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Speaker 1: I want to hear about that. I know that I

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Speaker 1: know that in the past you've had customers who fly

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Speaker 1: in from Hong Kong just to get your barbecue. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's no joke. So but now you have an online

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Speaker 1: business and I wonder how that has, uh, how that's developed.

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm looking at your website Snow's Barbecue dot

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Speaker 1: com and just thinking about ordering a little brisket myself

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Speaker 1: out here and I'm in Berlin. Well again, it has been.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, we were blessed to already have that

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Speaker 1: in place, being a one day a week. Uh. Then

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Speaker 1: you we we had to have a place to go

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Speaker 1: in order if we had anything left from day one,

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Speaker 1: and that's why I put the shipping in place. And

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Speaker 1: again from the endemic hid it just increased in our

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Speaker 1: our feedback and a lot of our customers. I mean

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Speaker 1: I don't know the percentage exactly, but to repeat customers

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Speaker 1: that order on a regular basis, I mean we we

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Speaker 1: manage yet just like we do on Saturday's. Quality is

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Speaker 1: our our main concern and customer service. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: we're not not real large. We're also on gold Belly,

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Speaker 1: which you can get the same thing on our website

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Speaker 1: in it. But it's been great, uh, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: far as quality. When you rewarm it in New York,

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Speaker 1: you lose very little. And you know, back to what

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Speaker 1: you said, our customers from all over the world, and

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Speaker 1: that is that's the case. Every Saturday is kind of

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Speaker 1: like a a festival one day a week. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we have people from all over the world every Saturday,

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Speaker 1: and we're just truly blessed. And like I said, the

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Speaker 1: pandemic isn't probly he had us, but we've been fortunate

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Speaker 1: enough to make some changes and and handle it quite well. Well.

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Speaker 1: We wish you the best care you send the best

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Speaker 1: to your family and to Tutsie down there and everybody

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Speaker 1: in Lexington as well. Um, I'm so glad that you've survived,

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Speaker 1: uh and and come out stronger on the other side

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Speaker 1: of this. Well, hopefully we get to the other side

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Speaker 1: of this. Carrie Bexley there, who runs Snow's Barbecue, voted

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Speaker 1: the best barbecue in Texas, and Texas is a big state,

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Speaker 1: so that's a very very big deal. To Jean Chanzano,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Politics contributor, she's also a professor at I ownA

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Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about this couple of trillion

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Speaker 1: dollars we're about to pump into the US economy. Um, Geane,

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Speaker 1: what do you think, I mean, my first question about this,

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Speaker 1: beyond you know, where should they send my check, is

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Speaker 1: is it going to be inflationary or are the deflationary

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Speaker 1: forces so strong right now that we shouldn't be worried

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Speaker 1: about that. I love how you said just a couple

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Speaker 1: of trillion dollars give or takes, right, just a few

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Speaker 1: And I think that's really, you know, part of what

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Speaker 1: we're all just looking at today, which is it's difficult

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Speaker 1: to tell people the size of this thing. I think

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Speaker 1: one point that really struck with me is that the

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Speaker 1: Watson Institute had out a piece which said, we spent

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Speaker 1: in twenty years on the war on terror five point

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Speaker 1: for trillion. In the last year, including this bill, we

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Speaker 1: spend six trillion on the coronavirus alone, on this pandemic.

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Speaker 1: And so this is the largest standalone stimulus package in

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Speaker 1: American history. Obviously, so it's unprecedented in Biden's you know,

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Speaker 1: arguably fifty day in office. But to your point, that

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Speaker 1: is the big question in the big debate is is

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Speaker 1: this thing going to trigger inflation? And I don't think

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Speaker 1: we know. We've heard some people, even Democrats, say that

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Speaker 1: it could, and other people push back, like Janet Yellen,

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Speaker 1: for instance. UM, so I don't think we know. Um,

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Speaker 1: if it just fills out the outpost gaps, it's going

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Speaker 1: to be okay. But if it does trigger inflation, Jerome

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Speaker 1: Powell has said he can deal with it, you know.

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Speaker 1: I think we have to take a weight and see

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Speaker 1: attitude on that at this point. All right, So Jeannie.

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Speaker 1: From a political perspective, Um, what does it mean that

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Speaker 1: this bill is likely to be passed and signed probably

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Speaker 1: today into law strictly on party lines, no bipartisanship whatsoever.

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Speaker 1: It means that despite the fact that six or seven

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Speaker 1: out of ten Americans, including majorities of Republicans, said they

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Speaker 1: support this bill, the Republican Party is hanging together and

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Speaker 1: saying not so fast. And we heard Liz Cheney and

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Speaker 1: others say, the big problem here is that of this bill,

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Speaker 1: according to Republicans, has nothing to do with fighting the

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Speaker 1: pandemic or restoring the economy. So they will point you

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Speaker 1: to things, and I do think I they have a

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Speaker 1: point to a certain extent, like the expansion of the

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Speaker 1: A C. A. These have been long time progressive democratic wishes.

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Speaker 1: They've been able to do that under this bill. It

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Speaker 1: may according the CBO increased by about add about one

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Speaker 1: point seven million more to the insurance roles. That's something

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Speaker 1: Democrats have wanted, and it's fascinating to me when Republicans

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Speaker 1: have made this charge about them. Democrats have said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so what, we absolutely are fulfilling our wish list

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Speaker 1: of things. So they you know, this bill has been

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Speaker 1: so popular, Democrats are happy to run on it. And

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Speaker 1: we're gonna see Joe Biden out there tomorrow night with

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Speaker 1: his first address to the nation. He hasn't, obviously in

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Speaker 1: fifty days, as you guys know better than I do,

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Speaker 1: even done a press conference yet, but I think we're

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Speaker 1: going to see him out doing something like that in

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Speaker 1: the next few days as well. Gene, he can do

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Speaker 1: whatever he wants. They can do whatever they want now,

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Speaker 1: you know, forget about the other side. I mean, of

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Speaker 1: course there was talk about unity at the inauguration, but

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Speaker 1: you know, there's nothing unity about this. They're just gonna

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Speaker 1: roll over the Republicans. Does it matter? It does matter,

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Speaker 1: And it matters not just for you know, people who

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Speaker 1: don't like the bill. It matters for Democrats, not only

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Speaker 1: the Joe Biden promise by partisanship, but it's a fifty

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Speaker 1: fifty Senate. You can't get anything done outside of reconciliation

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Speaker 1: and without ten Republicans. And that's the big problem for him.

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Speaker 1: Look at he's talking about, you know, something around a

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Speaker 1: two three trillion dollar build back Better program including infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: It's unclear if he can do that on reconciliation. Maybe

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Speaker 1: he can, but if he doesn't, he's going to need Republicans.

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Speaker 1: And so my big question is does he bring them

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Speaker 1: on early and move it through with them or does

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Speaker 1: he sort of put it on their lap and say,

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Speaker 1: you know, support it or don't. We can go ahead

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Speaker 1: without you. But we're talking about another huge spending bill,

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Speaker 1: if not more, and that's not to even mention immigration,

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Speaker 1: voting rights, and the labor law that that the House

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Speaker 1: passed yesterday. Are you surprised, let's talk about that, you

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Speaker 1: need some of the other legislation that this administration would

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Speaker 1: like to get done, probably sooner rather than later. And

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Speaker 1: you mentioned a few areas. Is it surprising to you

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Speaker 1: that with a president that's been so many years in

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Speaker 1: the Senate, nobody knows the Senate and it's working better

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Speaker 1: than Joe Biden presumably, And then of course a vice

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Speaker 1: president who was just came out of the Senate. Presumably

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Speaker 1: has those current relationships surprised that they haven't been able

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Speaker 1: to get any bipartisan support for this bill. I am

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Speaker 1: not surprised, because no matter how much Joe Biden or

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Speaker 1: to your point, Kamala Harris No and understand the Senate,

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Speaker 1: and they do, Biden arguably better than any president we've

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Speaker 1: had in recent history. We have a structural divide in

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Speaker 1: our system which makes it very, very tough for any

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Speaker 1: president to get bills through Congress, but particularly even when

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Speaker 1: their party controls it. But this narrow control of a

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Speaker 1: fifty fifty makes it that much tougher. So I think

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Speaker 1: my surprise was the other day when Jensaki said the

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Speaker 1: president is not supporting still the filibuster reform or getting

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Speaker 1: rid of the filibuster. I was a bit surprised she

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Speaker 1: said that, because I'm not sure how he intends to

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Speaker 1: achieve the rest of this mammoth program he has promised

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Speaker 1: to the American public in the absence of that kind

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Speaker 1: of reform. Well, I mean, you only want to get

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Speaker 1: rid of the filibuster while you're in power, right, Well,

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Speaker 1: that's right, and then you rue the day that you

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Speaker 1: did it. That's absolutely true. Be careful what you wished

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Speaker 1: for exactly. That's the kind of thing that they would

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Speaker 1: feel pretty bad about if they lost the authority. Geen,

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Speaker 1: great talking you hope we can have you back on

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Speaker 1: again soon. Jeane Schanzay know, there is uh professor at Iona,

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Speaker 1: so you can take her class if you go there.

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Speaker 1: And she's also a Bloomberg Politics contributors, so you can

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Speaker 1: read her column if you come here. Um, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be so fascinating to see how this plays out when

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Speaker 1: it gets to the infrastructure part of that. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: gonna be the big one, Matt. I mean, that's gonna

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Speaker 1: be um, you know, bigger numbers. Presumably its infrastructure, so

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Speaker 1: it should have some bipartisan support. Doesn't everybody like having

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Speaker 1: bridges and tunnels built in their district? You would think so,

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Speaker 1: But we'll have to see. We'll certainly have more on

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Speaker 1: that coming up. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to

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00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller pet

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00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: on false Whenne I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney Before

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Speaker 1: the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Radio m