WEBVTT - The Depression Book 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:08.639 Family Secrets as a production of I Heart Radio. I 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.560 grew up in Long Island, in Suburbia. My dad went 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.759 to college at night on the g I bill. My 0:00:16.880 --> 0:00:20.959 mom was a housewife. They had five kids in eight years, 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:24.080 you know, and I was the oldest. And we all 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:27.800 went to Catholic grammar school, Catholic high school, Catholic college. 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:30.800 We're very involved in our parish, very involved in our church. 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.960 I played Little league baseball and I played football in college. 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:41.640 My dad worked in commercial real estate in Manhattan, and 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.440 uh for a guy you know who went to night 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.480 school and got its bachelor's degree when I was like four. 0:00:46.800 --> 0:00:50.960 He did quite well, but I was anxious as a kid. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:53.600 I know what it's called now because of the field 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.639 I work, and it's called trick at tillmania, where you 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.800 pull your hair out. I can remember doing that when 0:00:59.800 --> 0:01:02.680 I was like four or five, and then I did 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.560 some grunting noise with my throat that my parents sent 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:09.000 me to see a doctor who said stop doing that. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.240 And then I did something with my jaw. So there 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.120 was a lot of anxiety. Or I would be in 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.199 second grade and have to urinate like twenty times a day. 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:23.720 I remember the teacher yelling at me. I'm not sure 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:30.679 where the anxiety came from. That's Mark Redmond, executive director 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:35.440 of Spectrum Youth and Family Services, storyteller and author of 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:39.480 the memoir called Mark's is a story about the stigma 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.920 and shame surrounding depression and a temptation to keep silent 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.400 about it, and the courage and liberation that comes from 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:50.520 telling it. Like it is about something that affects so 0:01:50.640 --> 0:02:06.480 many of us. I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is family secrets, 0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.000 the secrets that are kept from us, the secrets we 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.519 keep from others, and the secrets we keep from ourselves. 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.400 I suffered from what we now call impostor syndrome. So 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.960 I would do really well in school. I mean, I 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:27.880 was a good student from my first grade on, but 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:30.480 I can remember, you know, fifth grade would end and 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:32.400 I'd be like at the top of the class, and 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.600 then all that summer, I think is sixth grade the 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:39.640 year when they finally find out I'm really not that smart, 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.080 you know. And of course I do really well in 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.280 sixth grade, and then the next year I'd be like 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.120 is the next year where they were? You know? So 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.720 we call that imposter syndrome now, so I definitely had 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.000 that going on as well, but I pretty much had 0:02:54.200 --> 0:03:00.160 anxiety baked into my personality. I think early on, how 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.840 did your parents handle it? The various ticks, and you know, 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:06.560 this was not at a time where there was so 0:03:06.639 --> 0:03:10.520 much psychological awareness of the way that kids would, you know, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:13.600 go through various things. There wasn't nearly as much infrastructure 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:17.040 of help available for that. There was definitely not. I 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:20.760 mean they probably did what most parents then did. They 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.400 would say, hey, stop doing that, stop pulling your hair out. 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:27.520 You know. Tell me a little bit about your mom. 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.480 My mom grew up in Brooklyn. Her mom died when 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.040 she was three years old. Her mom died of a 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.560 heart attack. Her own dad then died I think when 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:40.760 he was like fifty five. My dad's died when he 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.200 was eight. There was a lot of early death in 0:03:44.240 --> 0:03:46.120 our family. I think there was a lot of early 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.560 death in that generation. My mom had cousins who fought 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:52.760 in World War Two who never came back. I think 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:57.000 the Great Depression made a big impression on both of 0:03:57.040 --> 0:04:01.640 my parents. I know that really scarred my dad. You know, 0:04:01.840 --> 0:04:04.720 just that after his dad died, they really weren't the 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:09.040 security benefits you have now for families. I remember him 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:11.640 taking me to like a Brooks Brothers store and making 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:14.960 me trying all these suits, which I hated and I 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.919 hate now. And uh. I turned to my mom and 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:20.160 I said, why does Daddy make me put on all 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.479 these outfits? And she said, because when he was your age, 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.200 he got all of his close second hand from the church. 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.440 So he wants you to have what he couldn't have then. 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:35.000 So they knew what it was like to want, you know, 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:39.120 and I think they would determine to give us, including 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:42.160 a college education. It's one of my dad's proudest things 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:44.080 to this day that he sent all five of his 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:51.480 kids to private colleges without one dime of debt. When 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:54.040 it comes time for Mark to go to college, he's 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.440 still struggling with the same impostor syndrome he's experienced since 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.520 grade school. He applies to a bunch of Ivy League 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.839 universities but doesn't get in, so he decides to go 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:07.200 to Villanova, a good school and familiar to him because 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.520 his cousin goes there. But as he enters college, Mark 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:15.520 is uncertain about his path. I remember the end of 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.240 my senior high school you had to fill out some 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:19.560 form and you had to pick a major. You couldn't 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:22.640 go in undeclared back then. So there were four boxes. 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:26.279 One was nursing, one was Arts and Sciences, one was engineering, 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.800 and one was business. So I turned to my dad 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:33.440 and said, Hey, which box should I check? So he said, well, 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.120 what do you want to do with your life? And 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.240 I said, I don't know. I'm seventeen. I don't have 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:41.159 a clue. He said, well, put down business because that's 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.599 what he was. It made sense. He was a businessman 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.200 and had provided him of the very good life. So 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.919 I said, okay, I'll be a business major. So that's 0:05:49.000 --> 0:05:52.159 what I did, and I went through four years. I 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.960 didn't really enjoy it. I didn't like it, I wasn't 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.840 interested in it, but I was good at it. I 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.960 never really questions until my senior year of high school 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:08.160 what I was gonna do. I really felt like I'm 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:12.240 destined to, you know, probably work on Wall Street. But 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.920 I read a cover story this Philadelphia native, a young 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:21.040 guy who had been working in Guatemala after a terrible 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:25.280 earthquake there, and he was now walking from Guatemala to 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.440 his home city of Philadelphia to raise money to go 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:31.599 back and help the people in Guatemala. And I read 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.719 that and thought, wow, that's like amazing. So a couple 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:37.520 of weeks later, I played in the rugby team in 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:41.400 Villanova and our big rival was Georgetown, and we're down 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:43.599 there in d C. We would all need in the 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.560 in front of the statue of Georgetown. And I'm sitting 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.239 there waiting for my teammates and I see this band 0:06:50.360 --> 0:06:53.200 there and it's got all these balloons and it's all 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:56.839 these little kids and it's like a fun run or 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:59.720 a fun walk. And then I see this young guy 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:03.840 in his twenties. He's tan, and for some reason he 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.359 comes over and he starts talking to us and he 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.280 asks us who we are. We say, we're going over rugby, 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.960 and he goes, oh, I went to Georgetown. I played rugby, 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.760 And all of a sudden, I'm like, oh my gosh, 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:18.720 this is the guy. This is the guy I read 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.400 about a couple of months ago. I guess he's made 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.040 it to d C. So anyway, a couple of weeks later, 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.160 I always went to church on Sunday. Of Villanova. The 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.400 most popular mass was the six pm Mass, and the 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:33.920 priest gets to give the Homily and says, the guest 0:07:33.960 --> 0:07:38.000 Homilist today is a young man named Edward Fisher who 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.440 has walked from Guatemala all the way here to Philadelphia. 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:45.080 I'm like, oh my god, this is the same guy. 0:07:45.120 --> 0:07:48.760 So he gets up there and he shows slides of 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.240 the devastation in Guatemala and what he's doing and how 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:56.200 they're trying to rebuild, and he talks about his walk 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.280 and how he says, I look out at you kids, 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:02.000 and I see myself a couple of years ago when 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.040 I was in college at Georgetown, and you know, I 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.800 had money, and I had a car, and I had 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:11.120 a career, and now I have nothing, and I'm as 0:08:11.120 --> 0:08:13.560 happy as I could be, and I can't wait to 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.840 go back to Guatemala and help the people there. Well, 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.360 at the end of that mass, I just stood there. 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.160 I was like the last person staying there in the 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:26.800 in the chapel, and I was just so moved by 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:29.440 what he said. You know, in fact, I felt like 0:08:29.560 --> 0:08:32.520 screaming out to all the other students, where are you 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.480 all going? How can you all just now go and 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.679 leave and study and you know, whatever you're studying after 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:44.040 what we just heard. Funny, I go back to Villanova 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.120 every five years to my reunion. I know exactly where 0:08:47.160 --> 0:08:49.960 I was sated in that chapel that day, and I 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:52.560 go back and I look there and I think that's 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.199 where all this started. That was the first inkling I 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.920 ever had that maybe I wasn't going to end up 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.320 on Wall Street, maybe my career wasn't going to be 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:06.240 in business. Emboldened by his encounter with Edward Fisher, after 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:10.719 Mark graduates, he immediately joins the Peace Corps and he 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:16.640 sent to Guatemala coincidence. Mark wants so badly to help 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:19.840 to adapt to the landscape, not to feel like an impostor, 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:25.760 but he struggles. I think I wasn't really realistic, and 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:28.600 it just like hit me when I got down there. 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:32.800 I just suddenly felt like what am I doing here? 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:35.559 And they were like, you know, you'll start the first 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.880 three months here with the other forty volunteers, but then 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:40.960 we're all going to send you to different parts of 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.880 the country alone, and you know, maybe you'll see another 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.520 volunteer once every few months, because you know, the roads 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:50.599 are really bad and they wash out and it's no transportation. 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.240 I thought this was for me, This is not for me, 0:09:54.920 --> 0:09:57.400 and I was not the first one to go. There 0:09:57.440 --> 0:09:59.679 are a bunch of people who never made it to Guatemala. 0:09:59.720 --> 0:10:02.040 We had to go to Miami for an orientation first, 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:05.560 and about four four people jumped out of that, and 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:07.800 then I think out of the forty two of us, 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:11.000 a good fourteen or fifteen would eventually leave. But I 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.600 was one of the first ones. I was literally home 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.920 in ten days, and I was embarrassed as heck. You know, 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.559 I had told everybody, Oh, I'm going down to Guatemal. 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.760 I turned down all these corporate jobs on Wall Street. 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.960 You know, I'm doing this great thing. And I was 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:29.600 just humiliated. I just wanted to tide in my basement 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.800 for two years and then crawl out and say, hey, 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:39.920 I'm back. Of course, Mark cannot stay hiding forever. He 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.359 needs to buckle down and get a job. Still disappointed 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.960 in himself for leaving the Peace Corps, he explores other opportunities, 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:50.280 other paths. Altogether, he ends up with a great job, 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:55.200 a management training program at Metropolitan Life Insurance Company. It's 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.400 nineteen seventy nine and Mark heads into this new career. 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:04.680 He's finally putting those Brooks Brothers suits to us. Their 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:08.000 office was in one Madison Square, and I showed up 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.920 and I met the other nine, you know, trainees. Most 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.120 of them had graduated from IVY League schools, some of 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.520 them had their m b A. I was one of 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.240 the few with just a bachelor's degree from a non 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.520 IVY It was supposed to be a three year training 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:26.600 program and we were gonna do different rotations throughout the company. 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:30.839 You know, I t sales marketing, and then we were 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.920 going to be the future leaders of Metropolitan Life, and 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:39.120 a lot of ended up that way. First year, they 0:11:39.160 --> 0:11:41.240 put me in an office on Long Island, so I 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.880 lived in my parents basement. And then the next year 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.080 they moved me into the city. So I got a 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.840 wonderful studio apartment on sixty two Street between Park Avenue 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.400 and Lexington Avenue, and I would walk down Park Avenue 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:58.560 every morning to my job at one Madison Avenue. At first, 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:01.640 I was elated. This is Gray, My life's back on track. 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:06.680 You know. I had my college girlfriend in Philadelphia. Well, 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.000 a lot of my Villanova friends were living in the city. 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.000 We'd all go to the same bars, and we were 0:12:11.040 --> 0:12:13.120 always poor in college. You know, we have money in 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:16.440 our pocket. We do go to restaurants I thought, this 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:20.960 is it, but I hated the work. I hated the work. 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:26.080 It didn't take me long to realize crunching numbers, learning 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:30.120 about insurance policy. It just not that it was wrong 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:34.280 or it just wasn't me. I knew I was just 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.800 playing this role. It wasn't me, you know. So what 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.120 was the turning point? I had a friend she started 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.440 at ABC News after college and left. They had to 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.840 start working at Covenant House, which was a shelter for 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.960 homeless teenagers in Times Square, which is still there. She said, 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.920 we need volunteers to come here at night. And then 0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:59.280 I went back to villan Nova to visit a friend 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.920 and she said, Hey, there's an event on campus. It's 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.240 about this. It's this volunteer fair. I want why don't 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.679 you come with me? And I was like, yeah, okay. 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.480 And it was different nonprofit organizations and somebody from Covenant 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.880 House was there and they showed this film about the 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:18.679 work that we're doing with homeless teams. So I went 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.599 up to this elderly woman, she looked like a suburban grandmother, 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.240 and I said, you know, I'm interested in volunteering. I'm 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:28.880 living in New York City. I just moved in there 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:30.920 and I don't know, maybe I can help out one 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.880 night a week. So she we exchanged phone numbers and 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:39.280 I went to visit her, and I'll never forget. She said, 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.360 you know, we'd love to have you volunteer here. You know, 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:44.600 whatever night a week you want to come. But you 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:47.920 know there's a group of us who are full time volunteers. 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.960 It's a one year program where you live here in 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.120 Times Square and we give you twelve dollars a week 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:56.559 and you work full time. But the kids, I think 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.800 you should consider that. In fact, you have to come 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:02.719 on an orientation and I've got an opening in May. 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.360 I'll put you down for it. I thought, let the 0:14:05.480 --> 0:14:07.480 nice little lady put your name down for the week 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:09.880 in May. It's so easy to get out of this, 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.840 just one phone call. Just humor her. So that's what 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:16.679 I did. I said, okay, yeah, yeah, put me down. 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:21.640 And then I started going Every Tuesday night. I would 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:25.480 instead of taking the Lexington Avenue line, I would take 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.800 the R train and I'd get off the Times Square 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:33.320 and Rolling Stone Magazine Cold. Times Square the sleaziest block 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.680 in America. And it was, as my brother said recently, yeah, 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.040 back then you ran through Times square, So I would 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.480 kind of scurry over to Covenant House. Uh, and then 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.360 I would have a gym bag and I would change 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.760 into like sneakers and jeans and a T shirt and 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.560 I would play basketball. I would hand out snacks, that 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:58.080 kind of thing. And I would say doing that week 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:01.440 after week after week, like I can't read, I can't 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.800 remember one moment. It's just kind of doing to me, 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:08.200 like this is what I should be doing. I remember 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.760 going to some meeting at met Life, me and the 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.200 other nine trainees, and we met with some senior vice president. 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:18.479 He said, you know, we're now at eighty billion in assets. 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.080 It's the beginning of the decade, and our goal by 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:24.280 the end of the decade is to get to billion 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.440 in assets. And that's the goal. That's what you all 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.480 have to work towards. And I remember sitting there thinking, 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.840 that is not my goal. It's fine if that's somebody 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:37.800 else's goal. That is not what I wanted to dedicate 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:40.400 my life to to get in a hundred and twenty 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:44.280 billion in assets. I would rather be dedicating myself to 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.400 the kids a Covenant House and helping homeless kids get 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.880 off the street and find a better way to live. 0:15:50.040 --> 0:16:11.400 That's my goal. We'll be right back. In pursuit of 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.160 his new goal, Mark switches gears, he leaves MetLife and 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:18.480 goes to work full time for Covenant House. He's there 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.040 for two and a half years, during which he's elected 0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:23.520 to be the leader of all the full time volunteers. 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.560 He gets to travel too, back to Guatemala in fact, 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:32.480 as Covenant House is expanding, opening up divisions globally. Also 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.200 during his time at Covenant House, he falls in love 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.240 with another volunteer. They get married. He gets his degree 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.560 at n y U and ends up at another nonprofit 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:46.680 organization to help homeless kids called Epiphany. Epiphany, however, is 0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:50.680 a difficult place with a difficult history. There's corruption, theft, 0:16:51.160 --> 0:16:53.600 Some staff members are even selling drugs to the kids. 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:59.200 Sometimes there's physical harm and danger. Eventually, though, Mark helps 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.640 the organization to repair and creates a model program for 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:07.000 homeless youth. He's following his credo, best illustrated by a 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:11.760 quote from the psychologist Abraham Maslow. A musician must make music, 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:16.080 an artist must paint, a poet must write. If he 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.359 is to be ultimately at peace with himself, what a 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:24.920 man can be, he must be. I ended up leaving 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:29.800 there in April, which got me up to St. Christopher's. 0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.119 I saw an ant in the New York Times and 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.800 for a director of residential treatment center for teenagers, and 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:39.720 I applied and I got that job. And where was St. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:43.600 Christopher's Dobbs Ferry, New York, which is right on the 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.680 Hudson It was beautiful, right on the Hudson River, very 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:48.399 close right above Yonker. I mean, it was like a 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:53.920 twenty five minute ride to Grand Central. By this point, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.600 Mark and his wife have a son. At first Mark 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.920 commutes to and from Dobbs Ferry, but then St. Christopher's 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.520 choires that Mark live on campus. If anything happens in 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.680 the middle of the night with these kids, Mark needs 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.199 to be right there on site. So they provide a 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.359 house for Mark and his family, and they moved to 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:15.480 Dobb's Ferry. Though Mark is advancing in his career, his 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:21.360 marriage is floundering. They're just mismatched. Market seeing a therapist 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.040 who helps him realize that he's not happy and won't 0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:28.760 be happy unless he and his wife break ties. So 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:31.640 I that we got divorced at some day in July nine. 0:18:32.119 --> 0:18:35.560 And I remember I stopped seeing the therapist like three 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:37.840 months earlier, April or May, and the last time I 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:39.960 saw him, I said, thank you. You've been great to 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.359 me of helping with his decision. You know, I'm going 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.600 to end therapy now. And he said, you know a 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.560 lot of men when the actual divorce goes through, they 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:50.960 have an emotional reaction. And I said, well, that's not 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:52.840 gonna happen with me. You know. I said, I am 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.400 absolutely certain of this decision. And I said, besides, even 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.080 if I did, what would you recommend And he said, well, 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.840 I'd recommend you go on medication. We shook heads, said goodbye, 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:05.199 and it's the day of the divorce. You know, my 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.320 wife and I we found we kicked the lawyers out 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.160 of the room because lawyers always want you to get 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.359 more and I was finally like, what do you need? 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.080 This is what I need. Great, we agreed on and 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.439 we signed the papers. So I left the office in 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.719 Manhattan where the lawyers were, and I stopped. I remember 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.800 I stopped at some store. I bought a book and 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.960 I bought one of those pre wrapped like egg salad 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.679 sandwiches because I hadn't had lunch, and I thought, I'll 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.439 leave this on the ride train ride up to Westchester, 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.359 and I took like two bites and my all of 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:38.720 a sudden, my stomach felt queasy, and I thought, ah, 0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.240 that stomach ache again. And I had been having these 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.280 stomach issues for the last couple of years. They would 0:19:45.320 --> 0:19:47.600 come and go. I went and saw a doctor once 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.000 and he said, there's nothing wrong with you. So I 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.719 that that's weird. I feel nauseous. Went home. We had 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.639 shared custody. Our sun was seven, so I got him 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.600 from school, brought him home, made him dinner, and I 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.160 went to bed and I couldn't sleep. I went through 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:05.159 the whole night tossing it. Could not sleep. So I 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.199 got up in the morning and I'm dragging, and I 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.440 go down and I took my son to the bus 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:13.399 stop and I couldn't eat. The next day, I was 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.920 not hungry. I had no appetite at all for breakfast. 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:21.440 Dragged myself through the day and I figured, well, surely 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.760 still not hungry. I said, well, surely I'll go to 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.080 sleep tonight. Right, I've been up for like I don't 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:30.240 know how many our straight couldn't sleep again. So then 0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:33.440 the next morning, still can't eat. And now it's starting 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:35.840 to occur to me like this is not a stomach thing. 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.360 This is not a stomach bug. This could be anxiety. 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:44.120 So I called my old therapist stuff and I said, um, 0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:46.560 remember you said that to me a few months ago, 0:20:46.960 --> 0:20:49.800 that like, you know, some men have like an all shrewlry. 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.480 I said, someth's going on with me? Can I come 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:55.840 and see you? So he was like, yeah, sure, come 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:58.920 and see me tomorrow at what three o'clock? I don't 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:00.600 sleep another now I go want to see him the 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.879 next day. And as soon as I walk in, he says, 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.520 you look like hell. And I said, yeah, I haven't 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:09.400 slept in like days and I haven't eaten anything either. 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:13.080 So he said, well, you're depressed. I said, no, no, 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:15.840 I'm not depressed. I'm happy. You know, I'm out of 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.159 this marriage. I have this new girlfriend I really like, 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:21.760 and you know, I have shared custody with my son 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:25.399 and a job I really loved, so I'm happy. He said, no, 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.320 you're depressed. He said insomnia and lack of appetite or 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:33.920 like the two principal symptoms of depression. So he said, 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.840 I think he couldn't prescribe medication. He said, I think 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:39.000 you should go see the psychiatrist who I work with 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:45.280 he could prescribe medication, but Mark is apprehensive about medication. 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:50.000 He's never taken anything for depression. And further, he doesn't 0:21:50.040 --> 0:21:53.520 believe he's depressed. Something else must be going on, he thinks, 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.520 But he takes down the psychiatrist's name anyway, just in case. 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:02.760 That night, I remember going for long walk. It's so 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:06.240 funny how the human mind works. I'm going for long walk, 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:09.200 and for some reason, I remembered that. In high school 0:22:09.280 --> 0:22:12.399 I read a book by Elizabeth coobla Ross called On 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.400 Death and Dying, and I remember there were five stages 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:22.399 on death and dying, and I remembered there was anger, denial, bargaining, 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:26.000 and the last one was acceptance. But there was a 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:29.000 fourth one. There was one. I couldn't remember what the 0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:32.919 fourth step was, and I knew it had the same 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:35.359 first letter as one of those others. So there was 0:22:35.400 --> 0:22:39.800 either an, A, A D or D. Okay, and I'm 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:41.879 walking what is it? What is there reason? I walked 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:43.760 in the house and all of a sudden it popped 0:22:43.800 --> 0:22:47.600 in my mind. The fourth step is depression. And it 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:51.240 was like my mind's way of telling me, no, that's 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:54.680 what this is. You are depressed. So another night and 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:58.480 not sleep, and I go the psychiatrist and I was lucky, 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:00.800 today would take you months to see one. I think. 0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:04.080 I went in that afternoon to see him. So I 0:23:04.119 --> 0:23:06.600 described what I'm going through, and he said, I'm gonna 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:12.760 prescribe three medications for you. Prozac, something calledbu spar for anxiety, 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:16.280 and then something called restaurant to sleep. So I was 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:19.119