1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: Family Secrets as a production of I Heart Radio. I 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: grew up in Long Island, in Suburbia. My dad went 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: to college at night on the g I bill. My 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: mom was a housewife. They had five kids in eight years, 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, and I was the oldest. And we all 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,800 Speaker 1: went to Catholic grammar school, Catholic high school, Catholic college. 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: We're very involved in our parish, very involved in our church. 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: I played Little league baseball and I played football in college. 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: My dad worked in commercial real estate in Manhattan, and 10 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: uh for a guy you know who went to night 11 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:46,480 Speaker 1: school and got its bachelor's degree when I was like four. 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: He did quite well, but I was anxious as a kid. 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,600 Speaker 1: I know what it's called now because of the field 14 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,639 Speaker 1: I work, and it's called trick at tillmania, where you 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: pull your hair out. I can remember doing that when 16 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: I was like four or five, and then I did 17 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: some grunting noise with my throat that my parents sent 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: me to see a doctor who said stop doing that. 19 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: And then I did something with my jaw. So there 20 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: was a lot of anxiety. Or I would be in 21 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 1: second grade and have to urinate like twenty times a day. 22 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: I remember the teacher yelling at me. I'm not sure 23 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: where the anxiety came from. That's Mark Redmond, executive director 24 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: of Spectrum Youth and Family Services, storyteller and author of 25 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: the memoir called Mark's is a story about the stigma 26 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 1: and shame surrounding depression and a temptation to keep silent 27 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 1: about it, and the courage and liberation that comes from 28 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: telling it. Like it is about something that affects so 29 00:01:50,640 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: many of us. I'm Danny Shapiro, and this is family secrets, 30 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: the secrets that are kept from us, the secrets we 31 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: keep from others, and the secrets we keep from ourselves. 32 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: I suffered from what we now call impostor syndrome. So 33 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 1: I would do really well in school. I mean, I 34 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: was a good student from my first grade on, but 35 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: I can remember, you know, fifth grade would end and 36 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: I'd be like at the top of the class, and 37 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: then all that summer, I think is sixth grade the 38 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: year when they finally find out I'm really not that smart, 39 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: you know. And of course I do really well in 40 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: sixth grade, and then the next year I'd be like 41 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: is the next year where they were? You know? So 42 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: we call that imposter syndrome now, so I definitely had 43 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: that going on as well, but I pretty much had 44 00:02:54,200 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: anxiety baked into my personality. I think early on, how 45 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: did your parents handle it? The various ticks, and you know, 46 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: this was not at a time where there was so 47 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: much psychological awareness of the way that kids would, you know, 48 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: go through various things. There wasn't nearly as much infrastructure 49 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: of help available for that. There was definitely not. I 50 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: mean they probably did what most parents then did. They 51 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: would say, hey, stop doing that, stop pulling your hair out. 52 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: You know. Tell me a little bit about your mom. 53 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: My mom grew up in Brooklyn. Her mom died when 54 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: she was three years old. Her mom died of a 55 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: heart attack. Her own dad then died I think when 56 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: he was like fifty five. My dad's died when he 57 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: was eight. There was a lot of early death in 58 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: our family. I think there was a lot of early 59 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: death in that generation. My mom had cousins who fought 60 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: in World War Two who never came back. I think 61 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: the Great Depression made a big impression on both of 62 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: my parents. I know that really scarred my dad. You know, 63 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: just that after his dad died, they really weren't the 64 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: security benefits you have now for families. I remember him 65 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: taking me to like a Brooks Brothers store and making 66 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: me trying all these suits, which I hated and I 67 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,919 Speaker 1: hate now. And uh. I turned to my mom and 68 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: I said, why does Daddy make me put on all 69 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: these outfits? And she said, because when he was your age, 70 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: he got all of his close second hand from the church. 71 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: So he wants you to have what he couldn't have then. 72 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 1: So they knew what it was like to want, you know, 73 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: and I think they would determine to give us, including 74 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: a college education. It's one of my dad's proudest things 75 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: to this day that he sent all five of his 76 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: kids to private colleges without one dime of debt. When 77 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: it comes time for Mark to go to college, he's 78 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: still struggling with the same impostor syndrome he's experienced since 79 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: grade school. He applies to a bunch of Ivy League 80 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: universities but doesn't get in, so he decides to go 81 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: to Villanova, a good school and familiar to him because 82 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: his cousin goes there. But as he enters college, Mark 83 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: is uncertain about his path. I remember the end of 84 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: my senior high school you had to fill out some 85 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: form and you had to pick a major. You couldn't 86 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: go in undeclared back then. So there were four boxes. 87 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 1: One was nursing, one was Arts and Sciences, one was engineering, 88 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: and one was business. So I turned to my dad 89 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: and said, Hey, which box should I check? So he said, well, 90 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: what do you want to do with your life? And 91 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: I said, I don't know. I'm seventeen. I don't have 92 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: a clue. He said, well, put down business because that's 93 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 1: what he was. It made sense. He was a businessman 94 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: and had provided him of the very good life. So 95 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'll be a business major. So that's 96 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: what I did, and I went through four years. I 97 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: didn't really enjoy it. I didn't like it, I wasn't 98 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,840 Speaker 1: interested in it, but I was good at it. I 99 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: never really questions until my senior year of high school 100 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: what I was gonna do. I really felt like I'm 101 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: destined to, you know, probably work on Wall Street. But 102 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: I read a cover story this Philadelphia native, a young 103 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: guy who had been working in Guatemala after a terrible 104 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: earthquake there, and he was now walking from Guatemala to 105 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: his home city of Philadelphia to raise money to go 106 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: back and help the people in Guatemala. And I read 107 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: that and thought, wow, that's like amazing. So a couple 108 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: of weeks later, I played in the rugby team in 109 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: Villanova and our big rival was Georgetown, and we're down 110 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 1: there in d C. We would all need in the 111 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: in front of the statue of Georgetown. And I'm sitting 112 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,239 Speaker 1: there waiting for my teammates and I see this band 113 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: there and it's got all these balloons and it's all 114 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: these little kids and it's like a fun run or 115 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,720 Speaker 1: a fun walk. And then I see this young guy 116 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 1: in his twenties. He's tan, and for some reason he 117 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,359 Speaker 1: comes over and he starts talking to us and he 118 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: asks us who we are. We say, we're going over rugby, 119 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: and he goes, oh, I went to Georgetown. I played rugby, 120 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, I'm like, oh my gosh, 121 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: this is the guy. This is the guy I read 122 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: about a couple of months ago. I guess he's made 123 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: it to d C. So anyway, a couple of weeks later, 124 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: I always went to church on Sunday. Of Villanova. The 125 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: most popular mass was the six pm Mass, and the 126 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: priest gets to give the Homily and says, the guest 127 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: Homilist today is a young man named Edward Fisher who 128 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: has walked from Guatemala all the way here to Philadelphia. 129 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, this is the same guy. 130 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: So he gets up there and he shows slides of 131 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: the devastation in Guatemala and what he's doing and how 132 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: they're trying to rebuild, and he talks about his walk 133 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: and how he says, I look out at you kids, 134 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: and I see myself a couple of years ago when 135 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: I was in college at Georgetown, and you know, I 136 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,800 Speaker 1: had money, and I had a car, and I had 137 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: a career, and now I have nothing, and I'm as 138 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: happy as I could be, and I can't wait to 139 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 1: go back to Guatemala and help the people there. Well, 140 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: at the end of that mass, I just stood there. 141 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: I was like the last person staying there in the 142 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: in the chapel, and I was just so moved by 143 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: what he said. You know, in fact, I felt like 144 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: screaming out to all the other students, where are you 145 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: all going? How can you all just now go and 146 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: leave and study and you know, whatever you're studying after 147 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 1: what we just heard. Funny, I go back to Villanova 148 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: every five years to my reunion. I know exactly where 149 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: I was sated in that chapel that day, and I 150 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: go back and I look there and I think that's 151 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: where all this started. That was the first inkling I 152 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: ever had that maybe I wasn't going to end up 153 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: on Wall Street, maybe my career wasn't going to be 154 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: in business. Emboldened by his encounter with Edward Fisher, after 155 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:10,719 Speaker 1: Mark graduates, he immediately joins the Peace Corps and he 156 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: sent to Guatemala coincidence. Mark wants so badly to help 157 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 1: to adapt to the landscape, not to feel like an impostor, 158 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: but he struggles. I think I wasn't really realistic, and 159 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: it just like hit me when I got down there. 160 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: I just suddenly felt like what am I doing here? 161 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,559 Speaker 1: And they were like, you know, you'll start the first 162 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: three months here with the other forty volunteers, but then 163 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 1: we're all going to send you to different parts of 164 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 1: the country alone, and you know, maybe you'll see another 165 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: volunteer once every few months, because you know, the roads 166 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,599 Speaker 1: are really bad and they wash out and it's no transportation. 167 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: I thought this was for me, This is not for me, 168 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: and I was not the first one to go. There 169 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: are a bunch of people who never made it to Guatemala. 170 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: We had to go to Miami for an orientation first, 171 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: and about four four people jumped out of that, and 172 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: then I think out of the forty two of us, 173 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: a good fourteen or fifteen would eventually leave. But I 174 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: was one of the first ones. I was literally home 175 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: in ten days, and I was embarrassed as heck. You know, 176 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 1: I had told everybody, Oh, I'm going down to Guatemal. 177 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: I turned down all these corporate jobs on Wall Street. 178 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: You know, I'm doing this great thing. And I was 179 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: just humiliated. I just wanted to tide in my basement 180 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: for two years and then crawl out and say, hey, 181 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: I'm back. Of course, Mark cannot stay hiding forever. He 182 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,359 Speaker 1: needs to buckle down and get a job. Still disappointed 183 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: in himself for leaving the Peace Corps, he explores other opportunities, 184 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: other paths. Altogether, he ends up with a great job, 185 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: a management training program at Metropolitan Life Insurance Company. It's 186 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy nine and Mark heads into this new career. 187 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: He's finally putting those Brooks Brothers suits to us. Their 188 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: office was in one Madison Square, and I showed up 189 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: and I met the other nine, you know, trainees. Most 190 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: of them had graduated from IVY League schools, some of 191 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: them had their m b A. I was one of 192 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: the few with just a bachelor's degree from a non 193 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: IVY It was supposed to be a three year training 194 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: program and we were gonna do different rotations throughout the company. 195 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 1: You know, I t sales marketing, and then we were 196 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: going to be the future leaders of Metropolitan Life, and 197 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: a lot of ended up that way. First year, they 198 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: put me in an office on Long Island, so I 199 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: lived in my parents basement. And then the next year 200 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: they moved me into the city. So I got a 201 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: wonderful studio apartment on sixty two Street between Park Avenue 202 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: and Lexington Avenue, and I would walk down Park Avenue 203 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: every morning to my job at one Madison Avenue. At first, 204 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: I was elated. This is Gray, My life's back on track. 205 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: You know. I had my college girlfriend in Philadelphia. Well, 206 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: a lot of my Villanova friends were living in the city. 207 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: We'd all go to the same bars, and we were 208 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 1: always poor in college. You know, we have money in 209 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,440 Speaker 1: our pocket. We do go to restaurants I thought, this 210 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: is it, but I hated the work. I hated the work. 211 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: It didn't take me long to realize crunching numbers, learning 212 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: about insurance policy. It just not that it was wrong 213 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: or it just wasn't me. I knew I was just 214 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: playing this role. It wasn't me, you know. So what 215 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: was the turning point? I had a friend she started 216 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: at ABC News after college and left. They had to 217 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: start working at Covenant House, which was a shelter for 218 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: homeless teenagers in Times Square, which is still there. She said, 219 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: we need volunteers to come here at night. And then 220 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:59,280 Speaker 1: I went back to villan Nova to visit a friend 221 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: and she said, Hey, there's an event on campus. It's 222 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: about this. It's this volunteer fair. I want why don't 223 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: you come with me? And I was like, yeah, okay. 224 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: And it was different nonprofit organizations and somebody from Covenant 225 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: House was there and they showed this film about the 226 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,679 Speaker 1: work that we're doing with homeless teams. So I went 227 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,599 Speaker 1: up to this elderly woman, she looked like a suburban grandmother, 228 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: and I said, you know, I'm interested in volunteering. I'm 229 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: living in New York City. I just moved in there 230 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: and I don't know, maybe I can help out one 231 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 1: night a week. So she we exchanged phone numbers and 232 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: I went to visit her, and I'll never forget. She said, 233 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, we'd love to have you volunteer here. You know, 234 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: whatever night a week you want to come. But you 235 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: know there's a group of us who are full time volunteers. 236 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: It's a one year program where you live here in 237 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 1: Times Square and we give you twelve dollars a week 238 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 1: and you work full time. But the kids, I think 239 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: you should consider that. In fact, you have to come 240 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,719 Speaker 1: on an orientation and I've got an opening in May. 241 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: I'll put you down for it. I thought, let the 242 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: nice little lady put your name down for the week 243 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: in May. It's so easy to get out of this, 244 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: just one phone call. Just humor her. So that's what 245 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: I did. I said, okay, yeah, yeah, put me down. 246 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: And then I started going Every Tuesday night. I would 247 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: instead of taking the Lexington Avenue line, I would take 248 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: the R train and I'd get off the Times Square 249 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: and Rolling Stone Magazine Cold. Times Square the sleaziest block 250 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: in America. And it was, as my brother said recently, yeah, 251 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: back then you ran through Times square, So I would 252 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: kind of scurry over to Covenant House. Uh, and then 253 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 1: I would have a gym bag and I would change 254 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: into like sneakers and jeans and a T shirt and 255 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: I would play basketball. I would hand out snacks, that 256 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: kind of thing. And I would say doing that week 257 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: after week after week, like I can't read, I can't 258 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: remember one moment. It's just kind of doing to me, 259 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: like this is what I should be doing. I remember 260 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: going to some meeting at met Life, me and the 261 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: other nine trainees, and we met with some senior vice president. 262 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,479 Speaker 1: He said, you know, we're now at eighty billion in assets. 263 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: It's the beginning of the decade, and our goal by 264 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: the end of the decade is to get to billion 265 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: in assets. And that's the goal. That's what you all 266 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: have to work towards. And I remember sitting there thinking, 267 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: that is not my goal. It's fine if that's somebody 268 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: else's goal. That is not what I wanted to dedicate 269 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: my life to to get in a hundred and twenty 270 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: billion in assets. I would rather be dedicating myself to 271 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: the kids a Covenant House and helping homeless kids get 272 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: off the street and find a better way to live. 273 00:15:50,040 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: That's my goal. We'll be right back. In pursuit of 274 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: his new goal, Mark switches gears, he leaves MetLife and 275 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: goes to work full time for Covenant House. He's there 276 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: for two and a half years, during which he's elected 277 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: to be the leader of all the full time volunteers. 278 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: He gets to travel too, back to Guatemala in fact, 279 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: as Covenant House is expanding, opening up divisions globally. Also 280 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: during his time at Covenant House, he falls in love 281 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: with another volunteer. They get married. He gets his degree 282 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: at n y U and ends up at another nonprofit 283 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: organization to help homeless kids called Epiphany. Epiphany, however, is 284 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: a difficult place with a difficult history. There's corruption, theft, 285 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: Some staff members are even selling drugs to the kids. 286 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: Sometimes there's physical harm and danger. Eventually, though, Mark helps 287 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: the organization to repair and creates a model program for 288 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: homeless youth. He's following his credo, best illustrated by a 289 00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: quote from the psychologist Abraham Maslow. A musician must make music, 290 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: an artist must paint, a poet must write. If he 291 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: is to be ultimately at peace with himself, what a 292 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: man can be, he must be. I ended up leaving 293 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: there in April, which got me up to St. Christopher's. 294 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: I saw an ant in the New York Times and 295 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: for a director of residential treatment center for teenagers, and 296 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: I applied and I got that job. And where was St. 297 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: Christopher's Dobbs Ferry, New York, which is right on the 298 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,680 Speaker 1: Hudson It was beautiful, right on the Hudson River, very 299 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: close right above Yonker. I mean, it was like a 300 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: twenty five minute ride to Grand Central. By this point, 301 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: Mark and his wife have a son. At first Mark 302 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: commutes to and from Dobbs Ferry, but then St. Christopher's 303 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: choires that Mark live on campus. If anything happens in 304 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: the middle of the night with these kids, Mark needs 305 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,199 Speaker 1: to be right there on site. So they provide a 306 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: house for Mark and his family, and they moved to 307 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: Dobb's Ferry. Though Mark is advancing in his career, his 308 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: marriage is floundering. They're just mismatched. Market seeing a therapist 309 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: who helps him realize that he's not happy and won't 310 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: be happy unless he and his wife break ties. So 311 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: I that we got divorced at some day in July nine. 312 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: And I remember I stopped seeing the therapist like three 313 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: months earlier, April or May, and the last time I 314 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: saw him, I said, thank you. You've been great to 315 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: me of helping with his decision. You know, I'm going 316 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: to end therapy now. And he said, you know a 317 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: lot of men when the actual divorce goes through, they 318 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: have an emotional reaction. And I said, well, that's not 319 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: gonna happen with me. You know. I said, I am 320 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: absolutely certain of this decision. And I said, besides, even 321 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: if I did, what would you recommend And he said, well, 322 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: I'd recommend you go on medication. We shook heads, said goodbye, 323 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 1: and it's the day of the divorce. You know, my 324 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: wife and I we found we kicked the lawyers out 325 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 1: of the room because lawyers always want you to get 326 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: more and I was finally like, what do you need? 327 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: This is what I need. Great, we agreed on and 328 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: we signed the papers. So I left the office in 329 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 1: Manhattan where the lawyers were, and I stopped. I remember 330 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: I stopped at some store. I bought a book and 331 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: I bought one of those pre wrapped like egg salad 332 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,679 Speaker 1: sandwiches because I hadn't had lunch, and I thought, I'll 333 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: leave this on the ride train ride up to Westchester, 334 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: and I took like two bites and my all of 335 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,720 Speaker 1: a sudden, my stomach felt queasy, and I thought, ah, 336 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 1: that stomach ache again. And I had been having these 337 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: stomach issues for the last couple of years. They would 338 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: come and go. I went and saw a doctor once 339 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: and he said, there's nothing wrong with you. So I 340 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 1: that that's weird. I feel nauseous. Went home. We had 341 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,639 Speaker 1: shared custody. Our sun was seven, so I got him 342 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: from school, brought him home, made him dinner, and I 343 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: went to bed and I couldn't sleep. I went through 344 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 1: the whole night tossing it. Could not sleep. So I 345 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: got up in the morning and I'm dragging, and I 346 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 1: go down and I took my son to the bus 347 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: stop and I couldn't eat. The next day, I was 348 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: not hungry. I had no appetite at all for breakfast. 349 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: Dragged myself through the day and I figured, well, surely 350 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: still not hungry. I said, well, surely I'll go to 351 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: sleep tonight. Right, I've been up for like I don't 352 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: know how many our straight couldn't sleep again. So then 353 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 1: the next morning, still can't eat. And now it's starting 354 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: to occur to me like this is not a stomach thing. 355 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:39,360 Speaker 1: This is not a stomach bug. This could be anxiety. 356 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: So I called my old therapist stuff and I said, um, 357 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: remember you said that to me a few months ago, 358 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: that like, you know, some men have like an all shrewlry. 359 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: I said, someth's going on with me? Can I come 360 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: and see you? So he was like, yeah, sure, come 361 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: and see me tomorrow at what three o'clock? I don't 362 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: sleep another now I go want to see him the 363 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: next day. And as soon as I walk in, he says, 364 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: you look like hell. And I said, yeah, I haven't 365 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:09,400 Speaker 1: slept in like days and I haven't eaten anything either. 366 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: So he said, well, you're depressed. I said, no, no, 367 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: I'm not depressed. I'm happy. You know, I'm out of 368 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: this marriage. I have this new girlfriend I really like, 369 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: and you know, I have shared custody with my son 370 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: and a job I really loved, so I'm happy. He said, no, 371 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: you're depressed. He said insomnia and lack of appetite or 372 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: like the two principal symptoms of depression. So he said, 373 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,840 Speaker 1: I think he couldn't prescribe medication. He said, I think 374 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: you should go see the psychiatrist who I work with 375 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: he could prescribe medication, but Mark is apprehensive about medication. 376 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: He's never taken anything for depression. And further, he doesn't 377 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: believe he's depressed. Something else must be going on, he thinks, 378 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: But he takes down the psychiatrist's name anyway, just in case. 379 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 1: That night, I remember going for long walk. It's so 380 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 1: funny how the human mind works. I'm going for long walk, 381 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: and for some reason, I remembered that. In high school 382 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,399 Speaker 1: I read a book by Elizabeth coobla Ross called On 383 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: Death and Dying, and I remember there were five stages 384 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:22,399 Speaker 1: on death and dying, and I remembered there was anger, denial, bargaining, 385 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: and the last one was acceptance. But there was a 386 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: fourth one. There was one. I couldn't remember what the 387 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,919 Speaker 1: fourth step was, and I knew it had the same 388 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: first letter as one of those others. So there was 389 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: either an, A, A D or D. Okay, and I'm 390 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: walking what is it? What is there reason? I walked 391 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 1: in the house and all of a sudden it popped 392 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 1: in my mind. The fourth step is depression. And it 393 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: was like my mind's way of telling me, no, that's 394 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 1: what this is. You are depressed. So another night and 395 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: not sleep, and I go the psychiatrist and I was lucky, 396 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: today would take you months to see one. I think. 397 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: I went in that afternoon to see him. So I 398 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: described what I'm going through, and he said, I'm gonna 399 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: prescribe three medications for you. Prozac, something calledbu spar for anxiety, 400 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 1: and then something called restaurant to sleep. So I was 401 00:23:16,320 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: like three medications. He was like, don't worry. I know 402 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: what I'm doing. Other people who have been on this, 403 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: you know. So I remember he went to hand me 404 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: the script and before he handed it to me, he 405 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: pulled it back and he said, this is not the cure. 406 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: The cure is in that therapist office. This is just 407 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 1: to get you functioning again. So I go into the 408 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: pharmacy and I give the scripts to the pharmacist and 409 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,879 Speaker 1: the guy says, uh, okay, yeah, we close soon, so 410 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 1: these come back tomorrow. And I almost like reached across 411 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: the counter and I said to the guy, no, no, no, 412 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: you don't understand. I need that medication now. And here 413 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 1: I was the guy who liked twenty four hours ago, 414 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: was never gonna go on medication. So anyway, he was 415 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: like okay, So he gave me the bills. But antidepressants, 416 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 1: in these other medications, it's not magical. You know, they 417 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,959 Speaker 1: don't kick in right away. It takes time, and then 418 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: you gotta find out if you're on the right one 419 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: and if you're on the right dosage. So really that 420 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: began like three or four months of a deep, deep depression, 421 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: and my weight at my heaviest I was six pounds 422 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: within a couple of months. I remember getting on the 423 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: scale and it said one, and I remember thinking, holy 424 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: sh it, like I have got to figure out a 425 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,679 Speaker 1: way to get food into me, you know. And I 426 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: can remember holding a banana up and looking at it 427 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: and thinking, if I try really, really hard, I can 428 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: eat this banana. And then I went and bought some 429 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 1: powder at a health food store that if you mixed 430 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: it with milk, would put on wait. I was desperate 431 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: to try and get food into my body, but my 432 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 1: anxiety was like sky high. And you're also having panic attacks. 433 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 1: During this time. I would have panic attacks that felt 434 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: like a heart attack. I would have night sweats. I 435 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: would wake up at the morning and you could wring 436 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: my shirt out. I was a wreck. I was, I could, 437 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: but it wasn't even day by day. It was hour 438 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:32,480 Speaker 1: by hour. Mark's therapist advises him to keep going to work, 439 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: that work is good for him, even if he has 440 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: sleepless night. After sleepless night, the work will keep him afloat. 441 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,879 Speaker 1: And of course the irony is not lost on Mark 442 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: that he works with others who are suffering from similar 443 00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: afflictions depression, anxiety, and though he might feel solace in 444 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: this common ground, he tries to hide his depression. At first, 445 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: tries to keep it a secret, but since he's so 446 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: physically altered, since he's lost so much weight, the secret 447 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: is to contain. Thankfully, my boss, the executive director, was 448 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: a trained clinician, mental health clinician. I confided in him. 449 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: I found out there was one staff member working there. 450 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: I was close to a year later, when I was better, 451 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: he said to me, Redmond, everybody in this place thought 452 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: you were a crack addict, because crack was the drug 453 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: of choice. Then taken down and he goes and people 454 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,600 Speaker 1: lose weight super fast. It's because of crack. So that 455 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: was what the entire staff here thought, that you were 456 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: on crack. Can you imagine? I said, I wasn't. I 457 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: was depressed. It was depression. But I had a psychologist 458 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: on staff. I had to confide. She could see how 459 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: miserable I looked, you know, I confided in her. But 460 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: I tried as best as I could just get into 461 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 1: work and try to do my job. But it was 462 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,520 Speaker 1: it was as hard as hell because even on medication, 463 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,400 Speaker 1: I would still only get three or four hours of sleep. 464 00:26:55,920 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: It's hard to concentrate. I would have a conversation with somebody. 465 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: I remember talking to my brother on the phone and 466 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: he said, you know, you just told me the same 467 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: thing three times in a ten minute period. So it 468 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: was just trying to get because I was like, if 469 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: I lose this job, I lose my house, I might 470 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 1: lose shared custody of my son. You know this this 471 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: is I could lose everything. So it was just struggling. 472 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 1: I was going to therapy twice a week. I was. 473 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: I had read that exercise is key in terms of 474 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 1: overcoming depressions. So I would get on this bicycle and 475 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: bike for as tired as I was, I would make 476 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 1: myself ride this bike for like an hour or two 477 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: every night. The thing that would help more than anything 478 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 1: else was somebody would come up to me and whisper 479 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: to me. I got divorced two years ago, and this 480 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: happened to me, and I would look at them and 481 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: they would look good, and I remember thinking, like that 482 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: person looks okay, and like, maybe I'll be okay again too, someday. 483 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,720 Speaker 1: So I was just hanging on the hope that the 484 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 1: therapy and the medication I began meditating every day, the bicycling, 485 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:22,679 Speaker 1: that it would somehow pay off. We'll be back in 486 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: a moment with more family secrets. Mark's depression, he realizes, 487 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 1: is a culmination of myriad troubles, subconscious troubles that his 488 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: body has been storing trying to signal to him for 489 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: quite some time. Those lifelong stomachaches have been trying to 490 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: tell him something, the trick of tellomania too. And then 491 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: there was a dangerous and instability he'd been repeatedly exposed 492 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: to at his places of work. And there was the 493 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: unhappiness at the core of his marriage, largely unspoken about 494 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: until it could no longer be subdued. And while the 495 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 1: divorce was necessary, mutually decided upon between he and his 496 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: ex wife, it broke something open and Mark. It catalyzed 497 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: his depression, but ultimately his healing too. The divorce was 498 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: the absolute trigger. Even though we were a mismatch. I 499 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,280 Speaker 1: really love this person, and you get so angry in 500 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: the divorce you forget you once did love. And you 501 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: know I'm Catholic. Nobody in my family ever got divorced. 502 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: You know, maybe one cousin, Like if somebody had told 503 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: me the day I'm getting married, hey, you're gonna that 504 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: was the furthest thing that was never gonna happen. We 505 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: weren't good for each other, but I loved there, but 506 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: we just weren't good for each other. And I don't 507 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: think either of us was happy, but I was really 508 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: in a way, I was broken hearted. In addition to 509 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: the heartbreak of the divorce, Mark also struggles with shame. 510 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 1: He feels as a Catholic, he shouldn't be divorced, he 511 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: shouldn't be depressed, he shouldn't be on medication, and as 512 00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: we know, shame begets secrecy and secrecy begets shame. My 513 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: therapist he was like, listen, Redmond, you are marinated and 514 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: guilt and you know I grew up in like this 515 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: pre Vatican to Catholic church where like you were born bad, 516 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: you were born with original sin and God's mad at you. 517 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: And you know that was the kind of and I 518 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 1: bought at hook Lion sinker. You know it's I was 519 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: an aldo boy. I bored into that whole thing, and 520 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: that was in there too. I mean that all had 521 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 1: to through therapy, that all had to be washed out, 522 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: brought out in the wash. I'm weak. I shouldn't be, 523 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 1: especially as a man, right. I was ashamed of it. 524 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: I was shamed to be a med's I was ashamed. 525 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 1: I was going through this. What's wrong with me? I 526 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: should do it? And I kept what's I kept trying 527 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: to figure The more I tried to figure it out, 528 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: the more I tried to make it go away, the 529 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: more it's stuck. It's stuck like glow. And it was funny. 530 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 1: My I had a spiritual director, was a nun. She 531 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: gave me a Zen book about the pressurement by Zen Teacher, 532 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:18,960 Speaker 1: and one of the lines in the book was that 533 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: which we accept is healed. And the more I accepted 534 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: I'm depressed, and that's just the way it is, it 535 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: would almost magically lift for a time. The book is 536 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: called aptly the Depression Book, and the author is Sherry Huber. 537 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: At first, Mark doesn't read it, he doesn't even open it. 538 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: It seems too whimsical to him, a silly book of 539 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: aphorisms with little drawings of people meditating. But when he 540 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: finally does open it, he realizes he's been wrong, very wrong. 541 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: This book is not silly, in fact, is life saving. 542 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: So what was it that was so healing about the 543 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: depression book? That whole idea of acceptance was huge to me? 544 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: She has a drawing there like hills. We want to 545 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: go from one hill to the next, you know. So 546 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: this divorce ended, now I have this new girlfriend, and wow, 547 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: she's great and I can just go to that. Everything's 548 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: great now. And her thing is like, no, in life, 549 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: we need to go through these hills and then these downslides, 550 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,959 Speaker 1: to these valleys whatever you want to call them. And 551 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: she had this whole thing about like any time we're 552 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: saying I shouldn't feel this, I shouldn't be doing this, 553 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: any of those should that's poison. That's self hatred. That's 554 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: where you're hating yourself. And I realized, like, I shouldn't 555 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: be feeling this way, I shouldn't be going through this. 556 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: What's wrong with me? And that was all self hatred 557 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,480 Speaker 1: and all that had to come out to all the 558 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: pressure I had always put on myself from childhood, but 559 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,480 Speaker 1: the imposter syndrome. I quit the Peace Corps. There's something 560 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: wrong with the all the times, all the pressure I 561 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: had always put up myself. It was so good. I 562 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: went through the depression, as horrible as it was, because 563 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 1: like all that came out through therapy and it changed 564 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: me as a person. I remember reading a book because 565 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: I started studying up on all that. I read start Williams. 566 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,479 Speaker 1: Styron's book on depression and they call like sort too. 567 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: Was like you think you start to feel better and 568 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: you're like, great, it's over, and then bam, your back 569 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: down again, and they're like what. And it's funny. I 570 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: remember some woman came to me to work, she was leaving, 571 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: and she said, you look like it again. I was like, 572 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: I know, and last week I felt so good. I 573 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: don't get it. I feel terrible again. And I remember 574 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: she grabbed me by the lapels and she yelled at 575 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: me and she said, my father died in his fifties 576 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: and my mother was heartbroken and she went through this 577 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: and she was in the depression, and you just have 578 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: to go through it. And I remember it. I was like, 579 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: She's right. It was about acceptance and learn learning and 580 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: learning about myself. It's not a linear path. Maybe it 581 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,200 Speaker 1: is for some people, but most of the literature will 582 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: tell you it's a zig zag pattern. In fact, the 583 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,880 Speaker 1: guy who'd been through it at work, he said, mand 584 00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,000 Speaker 1: this too, divorced and you feel shitty, then you feel good, 585 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: then you feel shitty. I said, what finally happens? He 586 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,440 Speaker 1: goes one day, you feel good, and you just keep 587 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: feeling good, and you're out of it. And I said, 588 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: how did you feel then? And he said, you feel 589 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: like the luckiest man on the face of the planet, 590 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: which is true. It's really true. Though Mark's mental health 591 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: has improved, things after all, are not linear. His work 592 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: is intense and challenging. One winter night at St. Christopher's, 593 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: some girls break loose in the freezing cold, and he 594 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: goes to find them. He's worried for their lives. He 595 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: ends up pushing his way through a chain link fence 596 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: to get to them, and though he doesn't realize it 597 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: in the moment, he's cut. His face is really badly. 598 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 1: He's gushing blood and ends up needing plastic surgery. So St. 599 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 1: Christopher's it was seventy two kids. Many of them had 600 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: been abused, neglected. Some of them were former drug dealers, 601 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,560 Speaker 1: former gang members, They have been in prison, they were 602 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: in fifteen or sixteen, and almost every girl there, it's said, 603 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 1: had been sexually abused at some point, you know. So 604 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: there was tremendous trauma among these kids. And I had 605 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: to live on the grounds. I live right there. That 606 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: was the idea, and I think for four years I 607 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 1: was fine, and I was very proud. It just warmed 608 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: me down to the point where that was finally having 609 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: my nose almost sliced off my face was the final 610 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,280 Speaker 1: Like that was like the final straw, like I can't 611 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: do this anymore. I just can't do this. I can't. 612 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,959 Speaker 1: You know. I love working with these kids. I going 613 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,359 Speaker 1: through the depression made me much more compassionate towards them 614 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: because I finally learned what it felt like to feel 615 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: like crap, and they feel like crap most of the 616 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 1: time their whole life. Mark wants to continue working with kids, 617 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,440 Speaker 1: but he knows he needs to be in another environment. 618 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: He resigns and starts the first charter school for low 619 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: income children in a new town in a new state, 620 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,760 Speaker 1: and in starting a new he can keep the truth 621 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: of his depression under wraps. No one will know him 622 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: or what he's been through. He takes this opportunity to 623 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: keep quiet, start fresh, as if all that had never happened. 624 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 1: Nobody needed to know that I went through this, you know, 625 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,480 Speaker 1: when I started working in Connecticut, all the new coworkers 626 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,640 Speaker 1: there and friends. Eventually I started dating somebody a couple 627 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: of years later, and we got serious, and I told 628 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: her because I could tell we were heading towards engagement, 629 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: and I said, I need to tell you this. I 630 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: went through this whole episode. So we ended up getting married. 631 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 1: She accepted that. But then when I moved to Vermont, 632 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: when they interviewed me for the job here in Vermont, 633 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: which was five years after Connecticut, I remember the final interview, 634 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,040 Speaker 1: the board said to me, so, is there anything about 635 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,439 Speaker 1: you we should know? And another board member said, yeah, 636 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: do you have any secrets you're not telling us? And 637 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: I remember thinking, Yeah, I got a secret I'm not 638 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,840 Speaker 1: telling you, and I'm not telling you. I'm thinking because 639 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: I really want to get this job, so all the 640 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:30,240 Speaker 1: people I know appear, all the dozens and hundreds of people. 641 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 1: Now I've been working in nineteen years and Vermont as 642 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,839 Speaker 1: director of this program for homeless kids. Nobody knows about this. 643 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: Even my son, my son who was seven when I 644 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 1: went through this, he's thirty five. He's a psychiatric nurse. 645 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: He doesn't know I went through this. My new son, 646 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,120 Speaker 1: who's nineteen now, he doesn't know about any of this. 647 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: So this has been the thing that I've kept locked 648 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:59,640 Speaker 1: in a box since nineteen The story of his depression 649 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: is not when he shares. Mark does begin to tell stories. 650 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,879 Speaker 1: In fact, he begins to tell stories publicly. He leaves 651 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,839 Speaker 1: a two minute pitch on the Moths Storytelling Number. Next 652 00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: thing he knows, he's on stage in Burlington, in Montreal, 653 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 1: in Boston telling stories. But for the most part, these 654 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 1: are other stories. They are not stories about. Soon after 655 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: these performances, he decides to chronicle his life in writing too. 656 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: He decides to write a memoir. He's writing it chronologically, 657 00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:39,919 Speaker 1: and eventually, inevitably, he gets to the nineteen nineties. When 658 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: I got to the nineteen nineties, I was like, Okay, 659 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: do I put this in the book? Okay? Do I 660 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,439 Speaker 1: put this whole episode of depression and what I went 661 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: through and going on that? Do I put that in 662 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: the book, because so many people have no idea about this, 663 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: my relatives, you know. And I decided I was gonna 664 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: put it in. I was just sided. I'm not like 665 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,240 Speaker 1: Frederick Douglas, who wrote three memoirs. I'm going to write 666 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,319 Speaker 1: one memoir. I get one bite at this apple, and 667 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: I'm going to write that story, and I'm gonna put 668 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:15,640 Speaker 1: that in. So that was a key decision. And I 669 00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: remember I gave an early draft of the book to 670 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 1: my wife, my present wife, and I said, what did 671 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: you think about that chapter about depression? And she said 672 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 1: one word harrowing, And I think that's a good adjective 673 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: to use for that chapter. Sometimes the very act of 674 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,680 Speaker 1: writing gives you permission to tell the whole story. That's 675 00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 1: what happened here. Mark's secret about his depression was like 676 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: a pilot blight within him, always there, always burning. And 677 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: when he eventually does tell his whole story, including the 678 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,360 Speaker 1: most shameful parts, he realizes so many people are also 679 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,279 Speaker 1: struggling with aim, with depression, with resistance to getting help, 680 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: resistance to even giving it a name. Mark realizes that 681 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,839 Speaker 1: the divulging of his secret is not only helpful to him, 682 00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,320 Speaker 1: but it can also help liberate others, which is ultimately 683 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: the most meaningful thing of all. The truth helps make 684 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: us whole. There was a piece of me that wanted 685 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: to get this out. I decided pretty early if I'm 686 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: writing a memoir, this was a key, key piece of 687 00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: my life. Family Secrets is a production of I Heart Radio. 688 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,759 Speaker 1: Molly's Acre is the story editor and Dylan Fagan is 689 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: the executive producer. If you have a family secret you'd 690 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: like to share, please leave us a voicemail and your 691 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 1: story could appear on an upcoming episode. Our number is 692 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: one eight eight Secret zero. That's the number zero. You 693 00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 1: can also find me on Instagram at Danny writer. And 694 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:15,680 Speaker 1: if you'd like to know more about the story that 695 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: inspired this podcast, check out my memoir Inheritance. For more 696 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,879 Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 697 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.