WEBVTT - I Lost It 0:00:02.120 --> 0:00:05.760 There's this room at Hardy Correctional Institution, in a building 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 where religious services are held. It's a tiny room, maybe 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:12.959 five by eight feet, a closet, really, but the inmates 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:14.960 call it the war Room. 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:17.400 It's just where we do war spiritual warfare. 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:23.440 The walls are cinderblock painted prison gray. There are two 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.280 stools to kneel on during prayer, and thin wooden strips 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:31.480 line the walls where inmates can thumbtack prayer requests jotted 0:00:31.520 --> 0:00:36.960 on index cards. Leo finds himself in the war Room 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.880 one day in twenty sixteen, six years after his evident 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:45.519 Sherry hearing. Despite the fingerprint evidence linking Jeremy Scott to 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.800 Michelle's murder, the judge denied Leo's motion for a new trial. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:54.440 Leo's now been in prison for twenty eight years and 0:00:54.480 --> 0:00:58.120 he fears he'll never get out. And ever since his 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:01.680 encounter with Jeremy Scott in the tunnel beneath the courthouse, 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:07.120 Leo's been grappling with feelings he'd never known before. In 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.360 the War Room, he contemplates that moment and how he'd 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:15.240 stood there, just feet away from Jeremy, ready to take 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:17.160 justice into his own hands. 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.600 I had carried the wrongful mantle of the murder in 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:27.680 my life for all them years, only to allow myself 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:29.720 to be brought to a place where I could actually 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:31.040 do it by this system. 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:39.880 And I was feeling like a murderer, and I didn't 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:40.520 want that. 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.880 When Jeremy's prints were found in Michelle's car, Leo's lawyer 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.200 showed him everything they had on Jeremy, including his criminal 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:51.360 history and his psychiatric reports. 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:54.560 And in the process of going through all of that, 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.560 I began learning Jeremy's story, because we all have a story, right, 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:04.000 and his story is miserable, and it's just a miserable story. 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.400 Leo realizes that if Jeremy Scott is the person who 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:13.120 killed Michelle, he isn't the monster he'd imagined. He'd done 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:16.600 terrible things as a teenager, yes, but he was also 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.840 a kid with a low IQ, serious behavioral problems, and 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:26.200 a long history of abuse. Even knowing all this, Leo 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:30.280 begins to worry that the anger that's building inside is 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:31.840 going to destroy him. 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:36.200 It was a bitterness that leads up to the war room. 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:41.000 And I understood this. I'm a believer, and so from 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:44.560 a spiritual sense, I believe that I'm saved. 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:47.720 I know that my wife Michelle was saved. 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:49.480 You'd saved in a little church or up the road 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.880 here in Marlbury, and so she's delivered. The only one 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:57.200 that's losing in this thing right now is Jeremy, who's 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.480 never known the love of a mother, never known the 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:02.919 love of a friend, never had a friend, and he's 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:05.680 in prison for crimes he's committed, and everybody hates him. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:09.200 He's got an eighty IQ. He has no support, no nothing. 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.239 And I said to God, I said, okay, if this 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:16.600 is your will, this is all I ask, help me 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:19.359 to forgive so that I can be free of that. 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:23.320 Help me to forgive him, and then, if you would, 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.080 you forgive him and let him know love for the 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:28.959 first time in his life ever. 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.080 Leo writes his prayer for Jeremy on a note card 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.920 and tax it to the wall. Now other inmates coming 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.760 to the war room will see the card and pray 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.280 for Jeremy too. 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.880 And I didn't think nothing else of it. I came 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:52.200 out of the war room and went about my day. 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.320 But a few days later, Chrissy comes to visit Leo, 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:03.120 and she's got news. Chrissy tells Leo that Jeremy Scott 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:11.400 has just confessed to killing Michelle. 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.320 Do you my man? 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:22.800 I have to have my feelt. 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:29.040 Sru sorry list. 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:36.279 In this vasty. 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:57.800 Uclation Abrege despish to the world who holding stuff. 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:30.920 To bone Valley Chapter seven, I lost it. 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:38.800 Generally speaking, when you have someone who's been convicted of 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.280 a crime, you have to move mountains to try and 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:42.719 get that conviction overturned. 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:48.000 This is criminal defense attorney Andrew Crawford. Scott Cupp has 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.279 now become Judge Scott Cup and he's no longer permitted 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.920 to represent Leo. Andrew read about Leo's case in a 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:58.039 local newspaper and he wanted to help, so he picks 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.760 up where Scott Cupp left off with Leo out of 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:05.080 legal options. Andrew knows the only way he can get 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:08.640 Leo's case back into court is with once again the 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:12.840 discovery of new evidence, so he starts writing letters to 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.720 everyone who'd been housed with Jeremy Scott in prison in 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.600 case Jeremy had mentioned anything to them about Michelle Schofield. 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.719 And he also writes to Jeremy, you know. 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.599 By the time I wrote him the letter had nothing 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.080 to lose, and I figured maybe he would say something. 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.920 The letter that Andrew sent says, in part, I now 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:39.800 represent Leo Schofield. If there is any further information you 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.200 could provide me in helping to free this truly innocent man, 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:49.119 I would greatly appreciate it. I await your response. Nearly 0:06:49.200 --> 0:06:54.360 a year passes. Then, in July of twenty sixteen, a 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:59.240 letter arrives from Columbia Correctional Institution. It's from Jeremy. 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:02.600 I was very surprised, and I was very puzzled. I 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:04.520 didn't think i'd hear anything from him because he hadn't 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.440 really talked to anybody else. And then opening up and 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:09.920 reading the letter, after reading the tone of the letter, 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.400 I could tell that he had something that he wanted 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:16.160 to say, or something that he wanted to convey. What 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:20.440 it was, I wasn't sure, and because of his extensive record, 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:22.800 I wanted to be extremely cautious about it as well. 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.239 Jeremy is being cagey in the letter. He tells Andrew 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:30.240 he has information about the Schofield case that he's willing 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.800 to die with if he talks. He wants to know 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.880 what's in it for him. He wants to talk to 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.440 Andrew one on one. Andrew sets up a phone call 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.840 a few weeks later, but in the state of Florida, 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.760 it's illegal to record phone calls without the consent of 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:50.720 all parties involved, So Andrew decides he needs someone to 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.440 listen in on the conversation and take notes. He walks 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:56.760 down the hall of his office building and knocks on 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:57.880 the door of another lawyer. 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:01.000 And he came into my office and he said, hey, man, 0:08:01.160 --> 0:08:03.720 I got this call and I'd like to have someone 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:06.160 present with me. I said, okay, you know, I didn't 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:07.360 know anything about the case. 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:13.560 This is Sean Costas. Sean practices family law. He's in 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.320 the same building as Leo's lawyer, but he and Andrew 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:17.320 don't really work together. 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.400 I do zero criminal law, and I've never been asked 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:24.600 to listen in on a call. So I grabbed my 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.400 notepat so, yeah, I'll be in there, no problem. So 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.720 we got into his office and I sat down at 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.839 you know, Andrew's desk, and he's got two chairs situated, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.880 you know, little executive chairs there, and I'm sitting in one. 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:41.040 He just said, just listen up. 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.640 Andrew puts the phone on speaker and makes the pre 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:50.760 arranged call to Columbia Correctional Institution. Jeremy picks up the phone. 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.719 Jeremy got, you know, right to the point, like right 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.360 off the bat, and I put it in quotes from 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.800 my note. It says end quotes, got the wrong man 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:10.640 in prison, end quote. And then he says I was 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:15.320 present when she died. And then Andrew asked who killed her? 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.840 And then the guy says it wasn't Leo. And then 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:24.240 Andrew asked, you know who it was, and then he said, 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:29.439 can't say it right now. And then as to Leo, 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:34.599 he said he does not deserve to be there. And 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.520 then he said I was present in the car. It 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.720 was a rainy night, she was at a gas station. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.640 She gave me a ride, and then there was some 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.360 hidden lake where she was murdered. And he also said 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:52.439 I was jugged up bad that night. And then Andrew 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:57.839 asked him what happened at this hidden lake and then 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:01.439 he said he being Jeremy, said she was killed inside 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:05.400 her car. There was no blood, and then he said 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.319 there was a hunting knife or a compass knife. And 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.000 then he said they don't like me talking to lawyers 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:18.440 around here. And then Andrew asked Jeremy what happened when 0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:22.760 he got to the lake and then he said I 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:28.920 lost it. I killed her. And then he said he 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:31.640 would testify to it, and that he was willing to 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.640 take a polygraph test. And then he said I'm sorry, man, 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:42.439 And that's the end of my notes. You know, my 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:48.400 impression of Jeremy was that he wanted to like come 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:52.720 clean about it, and he was remorseful, as I recall, 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:57.280 you know, he was upset that someone else was in 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.560 jail or a murder that he committed. 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.480 Jeremy Scott had just given a detailed confession to the 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:12.200 murder of Michelle Schofield. A confession like this should certainly 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:15.200 qualify as new evidence which could lead to a new 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.319 trial for Leo, if not an outright dismissal of the 0:11:18.440 --> 0:11:22.199 charges against him. And there was one other thing Sean 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:26.520 had in his notes. Did Jeremy say anything about a prosecutor? 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:29.600 He did? 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:30.160 There was. 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:39.280 There was something. Yeah here it is It says prosecutor lied, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:43.480 But I didn't know what it meant. It didn't mean 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.960 anything to me because I don't do any criminal law, 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.640 but something about the prosecutor. 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:49.679 Lied to him. 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.280 We have a theory about what this means. We know 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.520 that in two thousand and five, Jeremy had been brought 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:02.120 to Assistant State Attorney John Aguero's office. Jeremy and Aguero 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:06.280 had spoken at length without anyone else present, and the 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:12.120 meeting wasn't recorded. Before the evidentiary hearing in twenty ten, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.520 Aguero testified in a deposition that he wasn't alone in 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.160 his office with Jeremy Scott. He said that the cold 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:24.000 case detective who was investigating Jeremy had been there with him, 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:28.040 But this detective had written in a report that he 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.880 was on vacation that week, and his report clearly states 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.400 that Aguero admitted to him that he brought Jeremy into 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:40.320 his office while the detective was away. So Assistant State 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:45.280 Attorney John Aguero lied under oath about this meeting with 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.880 Jeremy Scott. But we don't think that's the lie Jeremy's 0:12:49.920 --> 0:12:54.040 talking about. We've always been curious about what exactly went 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:58.559 on behind closed doors. Maybe Aguero told Jeremy to talk 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.520 about stealing the stereo a certain way, maybe he helped 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:06.319 Jeremy with his testimony for Leo's evident Jarry hearing, or 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:10.040 maybe he promised Jeremy something in return and never followed 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:15.360 through and that's the lie Jeremy is talking about. Because 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.520 Aguero didn't record the meeting or have anyone else present, 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.439 Jeremy is the only other person who can say what 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:33.120 happened behind that closed door. After Jeremy Scott confesses over 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:36.720 the phone to the murder of Michelle Schofield, Leo's lawyer, 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:41.760 Andrew Crawford immediately prepares an affidavit, a written legal document 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.600 that details what Jeremy had said on the phone call. 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:46.920 All Jeremy has to do. 0:13:47.360 --> 0:13:47.839 Is sign it. 0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.880 Jeremy sent an Affidavid back, which I was extremely puzzled 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:56.040 by and said no. He wrote the word no on it. 0:13:57.040 --> 0:14:00.520 We have copies of this affidavit. On the line Jeremy 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.000 was supposed to have signed his name are two big 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:09.679 letters no. Without assigned affidavit. Andrew knows he has to 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.480 try something else. He wants to send a private investigator 0:14:13.559 --> 0:14:16.920 to talk to Jeremy Scott to get the confession on tape. 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.840 Everything's in my life is a home runner or a failure, 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:27.920 or you're getting there, you know, so it's not never easy. Pasy. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:32.800 This is Pat McKenna. He's been a private investigator for 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.600 thirty seven years and He's been involved in some of 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:40.080 the biggest criminal cases in Florida. If you recognize his name, 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.560 it might be because of his work with clients like 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:48.080 oj Simpson and Casey Anthony. After reading up on Leo's case, 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:52.600 McKenna agrees to visit Jeremy. He drives to the prison, 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.840 where two corrections officers escort him into a meeting room. 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:58.760 So two guys come get me, and they brought me 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:01.080 into a room and they stay. I said, well, I 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:03.080 really want to see this guy by myself. He said, 0:15:03.080 --> 0:15:04.920 oh no, you can't see this guy yourself. I said, 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:06.960 why not? He said, this is a bad dude. He's 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:11.960 in administration, confinement or the shoe or something. I forget 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:15.880 what his status was at that time. I said, I've 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.680 seen I've been in prisons all over this country and 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:21.080 around the world. I've been in prisons. I've met with 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:25.080 some of the most dastardly criminals you can imagine. I 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.760 really would like to be alone with the guy. I said, 0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:31.560 can't happen. We will stand at the door, but the 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.240 door stays open while you're doing this. I'm still frustrated 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.720 because I'm thinking this is not any good. I want 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.240 to talk to this guy, and you never trust guards 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:43.480 not to over here and then miss misstate what they 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.880 just heard. But anyway, so I hear just clanging of 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.600 chains and I'm sitting facing the doorway and here comes 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:55.320 Jeremy and they had him chained like Houdini couldn't have 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.560 got out of this stuff. I mean, his wrists were 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.280 chained to his belt chain, came from the belt chain 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:03.600 down to the ankles. They were chained together. So he 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.840 basically just shoveled and jingled. And what was interesting was 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:10.440 I looked at him, and he's got a mask over 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.560 his face, like a white gauze thing. But it was 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:14.960 kind of like I was thinking Hannibal lecture. This guy's 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.080 got a mask on, but it wasn't like in the movie, 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.720 but it was a full face mask. And I said, 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:21.560 what's this all about? He said, well, he's a spitter. 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:24.760 He'll spit all over everybody and fight and Karshi and 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.800 all that. And he comes in. He goes, who the 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.280 fuck is this guy? I go, Jeremy, it's Pat McKenna. 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:34.080 I'm a private investigator. I have a letter from it. 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.400 And he stops, take me out of here. I ain't 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:37.080 talking to this Guy. 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:47.320 Corrections officers lead Jeremy out of the room. Pat McKenna 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:52.240 doesn't get the recorded confession he'd hoped for, but still 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.880 Leo's lawyer, Andrew Crawford has the notes from the phone 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:58.920 call with Jeremy and the sworn witness statement from his 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:03.520 colleague Seank Justice, so Andrew files a motion with the court. 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:08.360 He's hoping that even without a taped confession, this will 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:12.960 be enough to trigger a new hearing. Andrew also notifies 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:17.400 the State Attorney's office that Jeremy has confessed. They send 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:22.080 two investigators to interview Jeremy at Columbia Correctional Institution, but 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.639 they found out afterwards that their tape recorder had failed, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.719 so they try again. The state wants to get their 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:31.560 own version of Jeremy's story. 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:36.840 So it's Monday, March thirteenth, twenty seventeen. It's one thirty 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:41.240 one pm at the State Attorney's Office and the deposition 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:47.399 room before Jeremy, I want to talk to you again, 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:51.040 just basically about the same thing that we talked about before. 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:56.560 The interview does not start well. Jeremy's upset. 0:17:57.480 --> 0:17:59.239 You want me confess to everything over here? 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.440 Man, ain't what's gonna happen like that, you know, and 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:04.280 then nobody trying to. 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:04.920 Help me get out. 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.000 Ain't nobody trying to help me get no deal, Ain't 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:07.760 no glad trying. 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:07.960 To do nothing. 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.160 Nobody trying to send me no money. Ain't nobody trying 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.200 to do nothing? So why would I help somebody else? 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:13.040 They ain't trying to help me. 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:16.320 You're gonna make confess some pay me if you don't 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.439 want to, maybe confess some leave me alone. 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:19.040 That's the way. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:19.720 That's why I work. 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:21.480 What do you mean pay you? I don't know that. 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:24.840 What I mean is I told you the investigators try 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.119 to get Jeremy to talk about what he told Andrew 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:28.280 Crawford on the phone. 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:31.600 Did you tell him anything that would make him believe 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:33.400 that you were giving a confession? 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:38.639 Nah, made no confessions unless I got another invest you 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:39.760 got something put in my hand. 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.480 I ain't that crazy. I know that much. 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.440 Jeremy has been in prison for almost as long as Leo, 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:53.359 now twenty seven years. His grandma, the only person he 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:57.560 had contact with outside the prison, died in twenty twelve. 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.439 And my grandma passed away. I am I don't has 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:01.920 to do with this though, And you know sense going 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:02.560 back to Pope. 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:07.320 County and back then, if she was alive, I would 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:11.239 love be here, got to get by visits, and now 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:11.680 she did. 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:14.840 I don't want to see nobody. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.440 At the time of this recording in twenty seventeen, Jeremy 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:27.840 has no family contact, no visitations, no lawyers. He gets 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.240 no letters and no phone calls from people on the outside, 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.160 and he has no money in his canteen, which means 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:38.800 he only eats what they're serving in the cafeteria. He 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.879 can't buy anything like deodorant and can only use the 0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:46.680 state issued soap and toothpaste. On top of that, he's 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.360 constantly getting in trouble in prison and placed under increased 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:55.680 security similar to solitary confinement. It's a desolate place to 0:19:55.760 --> 0:20:01.159 be in physically and psychologically. And now Jeremy knows that 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.159 he has information someone wants, it only makes sense that 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:08.240 he would try to use it to his advantage. Maybe 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.680 he can tell his story and get something out of it. 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:15.600 Whatever the reason, Jeremy doesn't want to tell the investigators 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:19.960 the same story he told Andrew. Instead, he returns to 0:20:20.040 --> 0:20:23.040 his previous story about how his fingerprints ended up in 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.719 Michelle Schofield's Mazda. He says he used to steal from 0:20:26.800 --> 0:20:28.720 cars abandoned on I four. 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:30.879 Well, now what you're. 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.600 Talking about is we're now stealing a stereo system at 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:34.080 the cars. 0:20:37.280 --> 0:20:38.520 That's what you're talking about. 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.560 When you're taking stereo systems out of cars. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:43.480 Let's talk about that for a little bit. 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:48.240 What what was what were you doing? You brought it 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:48.520 up here? 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:48.880 How many? 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:51.159 How many cars would you take it? 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:56.520 The investigators are pressing Jeremy for details. Who was he with, 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.800 what car was he driving? What did he do with 0:20:59.840 --> 0:21:04.520 the stereo equipment he stole? Jeremy can't stick to one story. 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:08.040 He's not sure who was with him. Might have been 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:11.600 this guy Rambo, but probably it was his buddy Robert. 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.080 But then Jeremy starts telling the story like he was 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.440 by himself, almost like he forgot he said Robert was 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.920 in the car with him. He tells them he was 0:21:22.960 --> 0:21:26.879 in his friend Cheryl's car, but in an earlier statement 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:31.399 he said he was in his girlfriend Jamie's car. But 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.800 there's one thing Jeremy does admit to telling Andrew Crawford 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:35.399 on the phone. 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:39.960 So you during that phone call, you've never made any 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:45.080 statements to facts of that case. That would lead him 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.440 to believe that you were confessing to the murder of 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:49.480 Michelle Schofield. 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.040 And that's when I remember saying that. 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:58.200 Jeremy says, I don't believe he did it, as in, 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:02.920 I don't believe Yo Schofield did it, which of course 0:22:03.440 --> 0:22:06.760 doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would Jeremy 0:22:06.840 --> 0:22:10.280 think that unless he knew something about the murder or 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:14.960 he knew someone who did. Then, toward the end of 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:19.280 their interview, just when they're wrapping up, Jeremy tells them this. 0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:25.160 But as far as Michelle, as far as this cab 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:27.760 driver and Simmy and. 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:30.680 Whoever real estate trying to talk about, I don't. 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:31.240 Know anything about it. 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:36.959 Right out of the blue, totally unprompted, Jeremy brings up 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:41.000 this cab driver. The investigators don't even know what to say. 0:22:41.920 --> 0:22:47.080 I don't know anything about a cat. There's a cab driver. Ah, 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:54.560 some cab driver got shot and Simmy that's not related 0:22:54.560 --> 0:22:57.359 to the Schofield king. That's what I heard about it 0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:57.879 in prison. 0:22:58.320 --> 0:22:59.040 I heard my name. 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:02.479 I don't know anything about a cab driver. Let's keep 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:02.800 it to this. 0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:03.720 I don't know not. 0:23:07.080 --> 0:23:10.399 It sounds like Jeremy sort of laughs, says something like 0:23:10.840 --> 0:23:14.520 that's fine, trust me. I spent a lot of time 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:18.520 obsessing over why Jeremy would bring this up. This has 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:22.240 to be the same cab driver murder that Jeremy casually 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:26.760 confessed to three decades ago, the same murder he told 0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:30.880 his girlfriend Jamie that he'd gotten away with, the same 0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:34.119 murder we think dan Odie was almost put to death for. 0:23:35.440 --> 0:23:38.879 And in twenty seventeen, this cab driver is still on 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:43.119 Jeremy's mind. Is he trying to see if these investigators 0:23:43.200 --> 0:23:45.280 know about it, or if the state is going to 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:48.720 charge him, or is it weighing on his mind like 0:23:48.880 --> 0:23:55.720 Michelle's murder seemed to be regardless, the investigators completely blow 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.760 off this mention of a cab driver. They just laugh 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:02.119 it off. They didn't even bother to ask any follow 0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:06.240 up questions. If they could have gotten Jeremy talking about 0:24:06.240 --> 0:24:09.159 the cabby murder, maybe he would have come back around 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:13.600 to talk about Michelle. Or they just might have left 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:16.919 the deposition room with a confession to a thirty year 0:24:16.960 --> 0:24:26.280 old unsolved murder. The investigators leave without any meaningful information 0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:30.399 about Jeremy's connection to Michelle Schofield and with no leads 0:24:30.400 --> 0:24:34.080 about Jeremy's possible connection to the murder of a cab driver. 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:39.800 But what they do get from Jeremy was valuable. Jeremy 0:24:39.840 --> 0:24:42.639 had told the investigators he would confess to a murder 0:24:42.920 --> 0:24:45.520 if he was paid or if there was something in 0:24:45.640 --> 0:24:50.640 it for him. These kinds of statements cast doubt onto 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:55.639 Jeremy's motives for confessing to Michelle Schofield's murder. Now the 0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:59.679 state can ignore the content of Jeremy's confession and attack 0:24:59.760 --> 0:25:05.440 his credibility instead. So the investigators did have something to 0:25:05.520 --> 0:25:09.159 bring back to the state attorney, and this time they 0:25:09.280 --> 0:25:10.920 managed to turn on the tape recorder. 0:25:15.720 --> 0:25:15.840 Hi. 0:25:15.920 --> 0:25:19.400 I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts, 0:25:19.560 --> 0:25:22.600 Home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs, 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:26.400 and many other great podcasts. Today we're asking you, our listeners, 0:25:26.440 --> 0:25:29.000 to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:32.200 to help inform how we make podcasts in the future. 0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:35.119 Your complete and candid answers will help us continue to 0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:39.199