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Speaker 1: There's this room at Hardy Correctional Institution, in a building

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Speaker 1: where religious services are held. It's a tiny room, maybe

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Speaker 1: five by eight feet, a closet, really, but the inmates

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Speaker 1: call it the war Room.

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Speaker 2: It's just where we do war spiritual warfare.

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Speaker 1: The walls are cinderblock painted prison gray. There are two

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Speaker 1: stools to kneel on during prayer, and thin wooden strips

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Speaker 1: line the walls where inmates can thumbtack prayer requests jotted

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Speaker 1: on index cards. Leo finds himself in the war Room

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Speaker 1: one day in twenty sixteen, six years after his evident

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Speaker 1: Sherry hearing. Despite the fingerprint evidence linking Jeremy Scott to

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Speaker 1: Michelle's murder, the judge denied Leo's motion for a new trial.

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Speaker 1: Leo's now been in prison for twenty eight years and

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Speaker 1: he fears he'll never get out. And ever since his

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Speaker 1: encounter with Jeremy Scott in the tunnel beneath the courthouse,

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Speaker 1: Leo's been grappling with feelings he'd never known before. In

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Speaker 1: the War Room, he contemplates that moment and how he'd

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Speaker 1: stood there, just feet away from Jeremy, ready to take

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Speaker 1: justice into his own hands.

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Speaker 3: I had carried the wrongful mantle of the murder in

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Speaker 3: my life for all them years, only to allow myself

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Speaker 3: to be brought to a place where I could actually

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Speaker 3: do it by this system.

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Speaker 2: And I was feeling like a murderer, and I didn't

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Speaker 2: want that.

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Speaker 1: When Jeremy's prints were found in Michelle's car, Leo's lawyer

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Speaker 1: showed him everything they had on Jeremy, including his criminal

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Speaker 1: history and his psychiatric reports.

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Speaker 3: And in the process of going through all of that,

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Speaker 3: I began learning Jeremy's story, because we all have a story, right,

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Speaker 3: and his story is miserable, and it's just a miserable story.

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Speaker 1: Leo realizes that if Jeremy Scott is the person who

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Speaker 1: killed Michelle, he isn't the monster he'd imagined. He'd done

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Speaker 1: terrible things as a teenager, yes, but he was also

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Speaker 1: a kid with a low IQ, serious behavioral problems, and

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Speaker 1: a long history of abuse. Even knowing all this, Leo

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Speaker 1: begins to worry that the anger that's building inside is

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Speaker 1: going to destroy him.

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Speaker 3: It was a bitterness that leads up to the war room.

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Speaker 3: And I understood this. I'm a believer, and so from

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Speaker 3: a spiritual sense, I believe that I'm saved.

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Speaker 2: I know that my wife Michelle was saved.

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Speaker 3: You'd saved in a little church or up the road

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Speaker 3: here in Marlbury, and so she's delivered. The only one

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Speaker 3: that's losing in this thing right now is Jeremy, who's

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Speaker 3: never known the love of a mother, never known the

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Speaker 3: love of a friend, never had a friend, and he's

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Speaker 3: in prison for crimes he's committed, and everybody hates him.

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Speaker 2: He's got an eighty IQ. He has no support, no nothing.

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Speaker 3: And I said to God, I said, okay, if this

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Speaker 3: is your will, this is all I ask, help me

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Speaker 3: to forgive so that I can be free of that.

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Speaker 3: Help me to forgive him, and then, if you would,

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Speaker 3: you forgive him and let him know love for the

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Speaker 3: first time in his life ever.

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Speaker 1: Leo writes his prayer for Jeremy on a note card

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Speaker 1: and tax it to the wall. Now other inmates coming

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Speaker 1: to the war room will see the card and pray

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Speaker 1: for Jeremy too.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't think nothing else of it. I came

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Speaker 2: out of the war room and went about my day.

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Speaker 1: But a few days later, Chrissy comes to visit Leo,

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Speaker 1: and she's got news. Chrissy tells Leo that Jeremy Scott

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Speaker 1: has just confessed to killing Michelle.

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Speaker 3: Do you my man?

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Speaker 2: I have to have my feelt.

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Speaker 4: Sru sorry list.

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Speaker 2: In this vasty.

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Speaker 4: Uclation Abrege despish to the world who holding stuff.

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Speaker 1: To bone Valley Chapter seven, I lost it.

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Speaker 5: Generally speaking, when you have someone who's been convicted of

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Speaker 5: a crime, you have to move mountains to try and

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Speaker 5: get that conviction overturned.

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Speaker 1: This is criminal defense attorney Andrew Crawford. Scott Cupp has

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Speaker 1: now become Judge Scott Cup and he's no longer permitted

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Speaker 1: to represent Leo. Andrew read about Leo's case in a

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Speaker 1: local newspaper and he wanted to help, so he picks

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Speaker 1: up where Scott Cupp left off with Leo out of

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Speaker 1: legal options. Andrew knows the only way he can get

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Speaker 1: Leo's case back into court is with once again the

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Speaker 1: discovery of new evidence, so he starts writing letters to

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Speaker 1: everyone who'd been housed with Jeremy Scott in prison in

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Speaker 1: case Jeremy had mentioned anything to them about Michelle Schofield.

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Speaker 1: And he also writes to Jeremy, you know.

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Speaker 5: By the time I wrote him the letter had nothing

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Speaker 5: to lose, and I figured maybe he would say something.

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Speaker 1: The letter that Andrew sent says, in part, I now

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Speaker 1: represent Leo Schofield. If there is any further information you

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Speaker 1: could provide me in helping to free this truly innocent man,

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Speaker 1: I would greatly appreciate it. I await your response. Nearly

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Speaker 1: a year passes. Then, in July of twenty sixteen, a

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Speaker 1: letter arrives from Columbia Correctional Institution. It's from Jeremy.

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Speaker 5: I was very surprised, and I was very puzzled. I

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Speaker 5: didn't think i'd hear anything from him because he hadn't

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Speaker 5: really talked to anybody else. And then opening up and

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Speaker 5: reading the letter, after reading the tone of the letter,

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Speaker 5: I could tell that he had something that he wanted

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Speaker 5: to say, or something that he wanted to convey. What

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Speaker 5: it was, I wasn't sure, and because of his extensive record,

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Speaker 5: I wanted to be extremely cautious about it as well.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy is being cagey in the letter. He tells Andrew

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Speaker 1: he has information about the Schofield case that he's willing

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Speaker 1: to die with if he talks. He wants to know

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Speaker 1: what's in it for him. He wants to talk to

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Speaker 1: Andrew one on one. Andrew sets up a phone call

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Speaker 1: a few weeks later, but in the state of Florida,

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Speaker 1: it's illegal to record phone calls without the consent of

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Speaker 1: all parties involved, So Andrew decides he needs someone to

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Speaker 1: listen in on the conversation and take notes. He walks

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Speaker 1: down the hall of his office building and knocks on

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Speaker 1: the door of another lawyer.

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Speaker 6: And he came into my office and he said, hey, man,

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Speaker 6: I got this call and I'd like to have someone

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Speaker 6: present with me. I said, okay, you know, I didn't

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Speaker 6: know anything about the case.

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Speaker 1: This is Sean Costas. Sean practices family law. He's in

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Speaker 1: the same building as Leo's lawyer, but he and Andrew

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Speaker 1: don't really work together.

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Speaker 6: I do zero criminal law, and I've never been asked

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Speaker 6: to listen in on a call. So I grabbed my

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Speaker 6: notepat so, yeah, I'll be in there, no problem. So

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Speaker 6: we got into his office and I sat down at

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Speaker 6: you know, Andrew's desk, and he's got two chairs situated,

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Speaker 6: you know, little executive chairs there, and I'm sitting in one.

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Speaker 2: He just said, just listen up.

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Speaker 1: Andrew puts the phone on speaker and makes the pre

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Speaker 1: arranged call to Columbia Correctional Institution. Jeremy picks up the phone.

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Speaker 6: Jeremy got, you know, right to the point, like right

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Speaker 6: off the bat, and I put it in quotes from

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Speaker 6: my note. It says end quotes, got the wrong man

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Speaker 6: in prison, end quote. And then he says I was

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Speaker 6: present when she died. And then Andrew asked who killed her?

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Speaker 6: And then the guy says it wasn't Leo. And then

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Speaker 6: Andrew asked, you know who it was, and then he said,

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Speaker 6: can't say it right now. And then as to Leo,

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Speaker 6: he said he does not deserve to be there. And

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Speaker 6: then he said I was present in the car. It

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Speaker 6: was a rainy night, she was at a gas station.

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Speaker 6: She gave me a ride, and then there was some

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Speaker 6: hidden lake where she was murdered. And he also said

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Speaker 6: I was jugged up bad that night. And then Andrew

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Speaker 6: asked him what happened at this hidden lake and then

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Speaker 6: he said he being Jeremy, said she was killed inside

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Speaker 6: her car. There was no blood, and then he said

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Speaker 6: there was a hunting knife or a compass knife. And

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Speaker 6: then he said they don't like me talking to lawyers

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Speaker 6: around here. And then Andrew asked Jeremy what happened when

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Speaker 6: he got to the lake and then he said I

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Speaker 6: lost it. I killed her. And then he said he

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Speaker 6: would testify to it, and that he was willing to

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Speaker 6: take a polygraph test. And then he said I'm sorry, man,

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Speaker 6: And that's the end of my notes. You know, my

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Speaker 6: impression of Jeremy was that he wanted to like come

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Speaker 6: clean about it, and he was remorseful, as I recall,

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Speaker 6: you know, he was upset that someone else was in

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Speaker 6: jail or a murder that he committed.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Scott had just given a detailed confession to the

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Speaker 1: murder of Michelle Schofield. A confession like this should certainly

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Speaker 1: qualify as new evidence which could lead to a new

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Speaker 1: trial for Leo, if not an outright dismissal of the

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Speaker 1: charges against him. And there was one other thing Sean

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Speaker 1: had in his notes. Did Jeremy say anything about a prosecutor?

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Speaker 7: He did?

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Speaker 8: There was.

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Speaker 6: There was something. Yeah here it is It says prosecutor lied,

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Speaker 6: But I didn't know what it meant. It didn't mean

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Speaker 6: anything to me because I don't do any criminal law,

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Speaker 6: but something about the prosecutor.

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Speaker 2: Lied to him.

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Speaker 1: We have a theory about what this means. We know

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Speaker 1: that in two thousand and five, Jeremy had been brought

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Speaker 1: to Assistant State Attorney John Aguero's office. Jeremy and Aguero

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Speaker 1: had spoken at length without anyone else present, and the

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Speaker 1: meeting wasn't recorded. Before the evidentiary hearing in twenty ten,

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Speaker 1: Aguero testified in a deposition that he wasn't alone in

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Speaker 1: his office with Jeremy Scott. He said that the cold

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Speaker 1: case detective who was investigating Jeremy had been there with him,

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Speaker 1: But this detective had written in a report that he

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Speaker 1: was on vacation that week, and his report clearly states

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Speaker 1: that Aguero admitted to him that he brought Jeremy into

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Speaker 1: his office while the detective was away. So Assistant State

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Speaker 1: Attorney John Aguero lied under oath about this meeting with

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Speaker 1: Jeremy Scott. But we don't think that's the lie Jeremy's

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Speaker 1: talking about. We've always been curious about what exactly went

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Speaker 1: on behind closed doors. Maybe Aguero told Jeremy to talk

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Speaker 1: about stealing the stereo a certain way, maybe he helped

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Speaker 1: Jeremy with his testimony for Leo's evident Jarry hearing, or

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Speaker 1: maybe he promised Jeremy something in return and never followed

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Speaker 1: through and that's the lie Jeremy is talking about. Because

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Speaker 1: Aguero didn't record the meeting or have anyone else present,

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Speaker 1: Jeremy is the only other person who can say what

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Speaker 1: happened behind that closed door. After Jeremy Scott confesses over

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Speaker 1: the phone to the murder of Michelle Schofield, Leo's lawyer,

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Speaker 1: Andrew Crawford immediately prepares an affidavit, a written legal document

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Speaker 1: that details what Jeremy had said on the phone call.

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Speaker 1: All Jeremy has to do.

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Speaker 2: Is sign it.

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Speaker 5: Jeremy sent an Affidavid back, which I was extremely puzzled

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Speaker 5: by and said no. He wrote the word no on it.

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Speaker 1: We have copies of this affidavit. On the line Jeremy

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Speaker 1: was supposed to have signed his name are two big

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Speaker 1: letters no. Without assigned affidavit. Andrew knows he has to

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Speaker 1: try something else. He wants to send a private investigator

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Speaker 1: to talk to Jeremy Scott to get the confession on tape.

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Speaker 9: Everything's in my life is a home runner or a failure,

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Speaker 9: or you're getting there, you know, so it's not never easy. Pasy.

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Speaker 1: This is Pat McKenna. He's been a private investigator for

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Speaker 1: thirty seven years and He's been involved in some of

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Speaker 1: the biggest criminal cases in Florida. If you recognize his name,

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Speaker 1: it might be because of his work with clients like

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Speaker 1: oj Simpson and Casey Anthony. After reading up on Leo's case,

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Speaker 1: McKenna agrees to visit Jeremy. He drives to the prison,

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Speaker 1: where two corrections officers escort him into a meeting room.

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Speaker 9: So two guys come get me, and they brought me

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Speaker 9: into a room and they stay. I said, well, I

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Speaker 9: really want to see this guy by myself. He said,

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Speaker 9: oh no, you can't see this guy yourself. I said,

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Speaker 9: why not? He said, this is a bad dude. He's

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Speaker 9: in administration, confinement or the shoe or something. I forget

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Speaker 9: what his status was at that time. I said, I've

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Speaker 9: seen I've been in prisons all over this country and

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Speaker 9: around the world. I've been in prisons. I've met with

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Speaker 9: some of the most dastardly criminals you can imagine. I

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Speaker 9: really would like to be alone with the guy. I said,

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Speaker 9: can't happen. We will stand at the door, but the

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Speaker 9: door stays open while you're doing this. I'm still frustrated

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Speaker 9: because I'm thinking this is not any good. I want

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Speaker 9: to talk to this guy, and you never trust guards

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Speaker 9: not to over here and then miss misstate what they

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Speaker 9: just heard. But anyway, so I hear just clanging of

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Speaker 9: chains and I'm sitting facing the doorway and here comes

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Speaker 9: Jeremy and they had him chained like Houdini couldn't have

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Speaker 9: got out of this stuff. I mean, his wrists were

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Speaker 9: chained to his belt chain, came from the belt chain

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Speaker 9: down to the ankles. They were chained together. So he

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Speaker 9: basically just shoveled and jingled. And what was interesting was

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Speaker 9: I looked at him, and he's got a mask over

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Speaker 9: his face, like a white gauze thing. But it was

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Speaker 9: kind of like I was thinking Hannibal lecture. This guy's

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Speaker 9: got a mask on, but it wasn't like in the movie,

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Speaker 9: but it was a full face mask. And I said,

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Speaker 9: what's this all about? He said, well, he's a spitter.

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Speaker 9: He'll spit all over everybody and fight and Karshi and

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Speaker 9: all that. And he comes in. He goes, who the

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Speaker 9: fuck is this guy? I go, Jeremy, it's Pat McKenna.

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Speaker 9: I'm a private investigator. I have a letter from it.

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Speaker 9: And he stops, take me out of here. I ain't

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Speaker 9: talking to this Guy.

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Speaker 1: Corrections officers lead Jeremy out of the room. Pat McKenna

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Speaker 1: doesn't get the recorded confession he'd hoped for, but still

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Speaker 1: Leo's lawyer, Andrew Crawford has the notes from the phone

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Speaker 1: call with Jeremy and the sworn witness statement from his

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Speaker 1: colleague Seank Justice, so Andrew files a motion with the court.

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Speaker 1: He's hoping that even without a taped confession, this will

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Speaker 1: be enough to trigger a new hearing. Andrew also notifies

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Speaker 1: the State Attorney's office that Jeremy has confessed. They send

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Speaker 1: two investigators to interview Jeremy at Columbia Correctional Institution, but

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Speaker 1: they found out afterwards that their tape recorder had failed,

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Speaker 1: so they try again. The state wants to get their

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Speaker 1: own version of Jeremy's story.

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Speaker 10: So it's Monday, March thirteenth, twenty seventeen. It's one thirty

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Speaker 10: one pm at the State Attorney's Office and the deposition

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Speaker 10: room before Jeremy, I want to talk to you again,

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Speaker 10: just basically about the same thing that we talked about before.

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Speaker 1: The interview does not start well. Jeremy's upset.

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Speaker 2: You want me confess to everything over here?

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Speaker 11: Man, ain't what's gonna happen like that, you know, and

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Speaker 11: then nobody trying to.

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Speaker 2: Help me get out.

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Speaker 11: Ain't nobody trying to help me get no deal, Ain't

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Speaker 11: no glad trying.

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Speaker 7: To do nothing.

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Speaker 2: Nobody trying to send me no money. Ain't nobody trying

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Speaker 2: to do nothing? So why would I help somebody else?

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Speaker 2: They ain't trying to help me.

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Speaker 9: You're gonna make confess some pay me if you don't

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Speaker 9: want to, maybe confess some leave me alone.

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Speaker 4: That's the way.

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Speaker 2: That's why I work.

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Speaker 10: What do you mean pay you? I don't know that.

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Speaker 1: What I mean is I told you the investigators try

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Speaker 1: to get Jeremy to talk about what he told Andrew

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Speaker 1: Crawford on the phone.

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Speaker 8: Did you tell him anything that would make him believe

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Speaker 8: that you were giving a confession?

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Speaker 11: Nah, made no confessions unless I got another invest you

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Speaker 11: got something put in my hand.

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Speaker 2: I ain't that crazy. I know that much.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy has been in prison for almost as long as Leo,

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Speaker 1: now twenty seven years. His grandma, the only person he

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Speaker 1: had contact with outside the prison, died in twenty twelve.

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Speaker 2: And my grandma passed away. I am I don't has

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Speaker 2: to do with this though, And you know sense going

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Speaker 2: back to Pope.

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Speaker 11: County and back then, if she was alive, I would

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Speaker 11: love be here, got to get by visits, and now

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Speaker 11: she did.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to see nobody.

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Speaker 1: At the time of this recording in twenty seventeen, Jeremy

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Speaker 1: has no family contact, no visitations, no lawyers. He gets

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Speaker 1: no letters and no phone calls from people on the outside,

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Speaker 1: and he has no money in his canteen, which means

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Speaker 1: he only eats what they're serving in the cafeteria. He

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Speaker 1: can't buy anything like deodorant and can only use the

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00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,680
Speaker 1: state issued soap and toothpaste. On top of that, he's

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00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,360
Speaker 1: constantly getting in trouble in prison and placed under increased

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Speaker 1: security similar to solitary confinement. It's a desolate place to

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Speaker 1: be in physically and psychologically. And now Jeremy knows that

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Speaker 1: he has information someone wants, it only makes sense that

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Speaker 1: he would try to use it to his advantage. Maybe

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Speaker 1: he can tell his story and get something out of it.

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Speaker 1: Whatever the reason, Jeremy doesn't want to tell the investigators

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Speaker 1: the same story he told Andrew. Instead, he returns to

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Speaker 1: his previous story about how his fingerprints ended up in

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Speaker 1: Michelle Schofield's Mazda. He says he used to steal from

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Speaker 1: cars abandoned on I four.

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Speaker 12: Well, now what you're.

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Speaker 11: Talking about is we're now stealing a stereo system at

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Speaker 11: the cars.

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Speaker 2: That's what you're talking about.

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Speaker 8: When you're taking stereo systems out of cars.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about that for a little bit.

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Speaker 8: What what was what were you doing? You brought it

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Speaker 8: up here?

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Speaker 2: How many?

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Speaker 8: How many cars would you take it?

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Speaker 1: The investigators are pressing Jeremy for details. Who was he with,

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Speaker 1: what car was he driving? What did he do with

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Speaker 1: the stereo equipment he stole? Jeremy can't stick to one story.

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Speaker 1: He's not sure who was with him. Might have been

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Speaker 1: this guy Rambo, but probably it was his buddy Robert.

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Speaker 1: But then Jeremy starts telling the story like he was

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Speaker 1: by himself, almost like he forgot he said Robert was

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Speaker 1: in the car with him. He tells them he was

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Speaker 1: in his friend Cheryl's car, but in an earlier statement

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Speaker 1: he said he was in his girlfriend Jamie's car. But

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Speaker 1: there's one thing Jeremy does admit to telling Andrew Crawford

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Speaker 1: on the phone.

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Speaker 8: So you during that phone call, you've never made any

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Speaker 8: statements to facts of that case. That would lead him

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Speaker 8: to believe that you were confessing to the murder of

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Speaker 8: Michelle Schofield.

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Speaker 2: And that's when I remember saying that.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy says, I don't believe he did it, as in,

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Speaker 1: I don't believe Yo Schofield did it, which of course

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00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,760
Speaker 1: doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would Jeremy

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Speaker 1: think that unless he knew something about the murder or

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Speaker 1: he knew someone who did. Then, toward the end of

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Speaker 1: their interview, just when they're wrapping up, Jeremy tells them this.

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Speaker 11: But as far as Michelle, as far as this cab

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Speaker 11: driver and Simmy and.

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Speaker 5: Whoever real estate trying to talk about, I don't.

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Speaker 2: Know anything about it.

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Speaker 1: Right out of the blue, totally unprompted, Jeremy brings up

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Speaker 1: this cab driver. The investigators don't even know what to say.

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Speaker 2: I don't know anything about a cat. There's a cab driver. Ah,

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Speaker 2: some cab driver got shot and Simmy that's not related

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Speaker 2: to the Schofield king. That's what I heard about it

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Speaker 2: in prison.

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Speaker 12: I heard my name.

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Speaker 2: I don't know anything about a cab driver. Let's keep

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Speaker 2: it to this.

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Speaker 9: I don't know not.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like Jeremy sort of laughs, says something like

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Speaker 1: that's fine, trust me. I spent a lot of time

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Speaker 1: obsessing over why Jeremy would bring this up. This has

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Speaker 1: to be the same cab driver murder that Jeremy casually

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Speaker 1: confessed to three decades ago, the same murder he told

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend Jamie that he'd gotten away with, the same

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Speaker 1: murder we think dan Odie was almost put to death for.

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Speaker 1: And in twenty seventeen, this cab driver is still on

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Speaker 1: Jeremy's mind. Is he trying to see if these investigators

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Speaker 1: know about it, or if the state is going to

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Speaker 1: charge him, or is it weighing on his mind like

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Speaker 1: Michelle's murder seemed to be regardless, the investigators completely blow

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Speaker 1: off this mention of a cab driver. They just laugh

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Speaker 1: it off. They didn't even bother to ask any follow

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Speaker 1: up questions. If they could have gotten Jeremy talking about

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Speaker 1: the cabby murder, maybe he would have come back around

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Speaker 1: to talk about Michelle. Or they just might have left

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Speaker 1: the deposition room with a confession to a thirty year

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Speaker 1: old unsolved murder. The investigators leave without any meaningful information

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Speaker 1: about Jeremy's connection to Michelle Schofield and with no leads

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Speaker 1: about Jeremy's possible connection to the murder of a cab driver.

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Speaker 1: But what they do get from Jeremy was valuable. Jeremy

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Speaker 1: had told the investigators he would confess to a murder

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Speaker 1: if he was paid or if there was something in

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Speaker 1: it for him. These kinds of statements cast doubt onto

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Speaker 1: Jeremy's motives for confessing to Michelle Schofield's murder. Now the

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Speaker 1: state can ignore the content of Jeremy's confession and attack

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Speaker 1: his credibility instead. So the investigators did have something to

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Speaker 1: bring back to the state attorney, and this time they

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Speaker 1: managed to turn on the tape recorder.

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Speaker 8: Hi.

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Speaker 13: I'm Jason Flamm, CEO and founder of Lava for Good podcasts,

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00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 13: Home to Bone Valley, Wrongful Conviction, The War on Drugs,

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Speaker 13: to take part in a survey. Your feedback is going

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Speaker 13: to help inform how we make podcasts in the future.

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Speaker 13: Your complete and candid answers will help us continue to

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Speaker 14: Bone Valley is sponsored by Stand Together. Stand Together is

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Speaker 14: a philanthropic community that partners with America's boldest change makers

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Speaker 14: to tackle the root causes of our country's biggest problems,

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Speaker 14: including the failed war on drugs that has criminalized addiction,

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Speaker 14: fueled over incarceration, and shattered communities. By thirty five, Kelly

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Speaker 14: Lingard was an executive with a fortune twenty it company.

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Speaker 14: If you had asked her thoughts on addiction, she would

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Speaker 14: have said that addiction was about making bad choices and irresponsibility.

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Speaker 14: But after hearing the story of a woman in recovery,

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Speaker 14: Kelly's perspective shifted. She began to understand that addiction was

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Speaker 14: a problem of pain, not irresponsibility, as she discovered how

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Speaker 14: only to relapse and die within days or weeks of

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Speaker 14: completing a recovery program, Kelly knew she could use her

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Speaker 14: business skills to make a difference. She left her career

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Speaker 14: and started Unshattered with the mission of ending the addiction

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Speaker 14: smarter way of treating addiction that moves away from criminalization

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Speaker 14: and keeps people out of the system. Kelly Lingard is

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Speaker 14: one of the many entrepreneurs partnering with Stand Together to

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Speaker 14: drive solutions in education, health care, poverty, and criminal justice.

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Speaker 14: To learn more about addiction and the War on Drugs,

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Speaker 14: listen to the War on Drugs podcast on Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 14: or wherever you get your podcasts.

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00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: Andrew Crawford, Leo's lawyer, is hoping that a judge will

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00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: grant Leo a new trial based on the evidence of

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00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: Jeremy's phone call confession. An Evidentiarry hearing is granted and

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00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: set for October twenty seventeen. It's just a couple weeks

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00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: out when out of the lou Andrew receives another letter

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00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: from Jeremy Scott. His spelling and punctuation make it a

439
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: little tough to read, but this is what it says.

440
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: Here's Andrew reading it.

441
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 5: Dear mister Crawford, I would like to make a statement.

442
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 5: I Jeremy lyn Scott write this of my own free will.

443
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 5: Mister Schofield did not kill Missus Schofield. He didn't have

444
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 5: anything to do with it. I jeremylyn Scott, killed Missus

445
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 5: Schofield that night. I can tell you everything, what kind

446
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,679
Speaker 5: of knife it was, and how the cops picked me up.

447
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:33,879
Speaker 9: But let me go.

448
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 5: I can tell you stuff where they found Missus Schofield.

449
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 5: Only the person that killed her would know. It's time

450
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 5: to end all this. I won't talk to the state.

451
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 5: They have made promises to me, but at the end

452
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 5: it was all lies. You can hook me to that lie.

453
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 5: That'll tell if you are lying or not. Everything I

454
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 5: will tell will be the truth. Mister Crawford, this is

455
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 5: my statement and my own hand writing spelling. Ain't two good.

456
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 5: Hope to hear from you soon, Jeremy Elscott.

457
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: This letter, with Jeremy's signature at the bottom signals something

458
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: has changed. Andrew thinks this may be a sign that

459
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: Jeremy is willing to talk. He asked Pat McKenna to

460
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: go see Jeremy one more time. But what Andrew doesn't

461
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: know is that Jeremy mailed out two more letters, one

462
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: to the State Attorney's office and one to the judge

463
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: that had been assigned to Leo's upcoming hearing. The two

464
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 1: letters are slightly different, but they have the same general message.

465
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: Jeremy says he is confessing to all murders in Polk

466
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: County in the years nineteen eighty seven and nineteen eighty eight,

467
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: and he's asking to be left alone and put back

468
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: on death row. Andrew had no way of knowing this yet,

469
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: and neither did Pat McKenna, who was waiting to talk

470
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: to Jeremy in an attorney room at the prison.

471
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 9: Just like last time, I hope they're not bringing this

472
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 9: guy in, you know, just crazed or something. So in

473
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,760
Speaker 9: he walks. He's standing there. I'm sitting in a chair

474
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 9: and I remember just saying, man, you look a lot

475
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 9: better than you did the last time I saw you.

476
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 9: And he still won't sit down yet, but he sees

477
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 9: on the table in front of me, I had laid

478
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 9: out a letter from Andrew, the letter that Jeremy wrote,

479
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 9: and I had a tape recorder on the table too,

480
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 9: and we got to talk and I said, I just

481
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 9: I want to see if you'll talk to me about

482
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 9: that case. He's I don't need to. I told I

483
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 9: just told the judge yesterday and the prosecutors and everybody.

484
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 9: I confess to everything.

485
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 2: I go.

486
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 9: You confess to everything? He said, yeah, Well I didn't know.

487
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 9: He meant every murder that's ever happened in the county,

488
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 9: just out of frustration, I guess. So I said, well,

489
00:30:58,080 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 9: you know, we'll sit down, we start talking.

490
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 15: Introduced Jeremy Scott. Jeremy, can you praise your right hand?

491
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 15: You swear everything you're tell me is the truth and

492
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 15: the whole truth, Sir.

493
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 9: I was going to go through the whole all kinds

494
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 9: of question, answered said Jeremy.

495
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 12: I just wanted you to go ahead and just explain

496
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 12: what happened that night with Michelle.

497
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 9: This word's overused, but it became surreal for me. His

498
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 9: whole body started to change, right, he was twitching a

499
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 9: little bit, and he just hes quit looking at me,

500
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,719
Speaker 9: and he looked right at my dictaphone, my tape recorder

501
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 9: sitting right there, and he was leaning over it, and

502
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 9: I just it was like he was unburdening himself or something.

503
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 9: He was like talking just like a foot away from

504
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 9: my dictaphone there and I just kind of watched them.

505
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 12: Early early year, nineteen eighty seven, I got released from

506
00:31:54,080 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 12: prison not too long for I ran into Michelle. Apparently

507
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 12: we had met Corynge or herb at a party. It

508
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 12: was round Ralph February around midnight, maybe one o'clock in

509
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 12: the morning or something, at a Texico station. I've been

510
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 12: out drinking, popping peels all night, partying him.

511
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: She asked me, was I laid on the.

512
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 12: Phone and I said, no, I need a ride. I'm

513
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 12: a little weary drunk.

514
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 15: But she said I know you.

515
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 12: I said, oh no, and but she asked me what

516
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 12: I law. I said, I'm going Northcombing Road. There's trailers

517
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 12: I'm known to sleep and trailers.

518
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 2: You know, bandit houses and stuff.

519
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: So Jeremy says that Michelle agrees to drive him to

520
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: a trailer park on North Cumby Road, just up the street.

521
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 12: Really, she hit me a rise going down and rain

522
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 12: and I got my jacket on, you know, So we're

523
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 12: going down North Calling Road.

524
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: We go, they passed the trailer park where Jeremy used

525
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: to live with his grandparents. Now Jeremy has another idea.

526
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 2: You know, maybe I can get it late or somehow,

527
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 2: you know.

528
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 12: So I tell her to turn. All in the road

529
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 12: is behind the little trees, is the lake, you know,

530
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 12: and people go there all the time. Well we get there.

531
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 9: Yeah, so I know nobody lives here.

532
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 12: I said, no, It says where the people come and

533
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 12: make out.

534
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: Jeremy thinks maybe they'll have sex, but Michelle rejects his advances.

535
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: She tells him she's married.

536
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 2: You know, I'm married.

537
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 5: Like, let's say great, you know.

538
00:33:57,720 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 12: And I went in and reached in and grabbing my

539
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 12: cigarettes and put out a joint.

540
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: He says. He reaches into his jacket to pull out

541
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: a pack of cigarettes and then a knife falls out

542
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: of his pocket.

543
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 12: Seven inch knife, maybe hundred knives. Uh, it's what you

544
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 12: call where at the end of the hand where it

545
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 12: has a thing where he knows you if you go east, west,

546
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 12: north or you know something, help us. Yeah, goottle, honey,

547
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 12: and I you know, not no big butcher knife, none

548
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 12: of that stuff.

549
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 13: Little, you know.

550
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 1: So Michelle sees the knife.

551
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 12: She she went to panty and started screaming hidden, you know,

552
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 12: and I'm you know, the next thing I know, I

553
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 12: lost him, you know, And next time I know it you.

554
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 2: Know, I done done stabber. You know, I don't know

555
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 2: how many time or not, you know, And I'm.

556
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 12: Like panicking now because I don't know what just happened.

557
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: After he stabs her, Jeremy says, he pauses, sits in

558
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: the car and has a smoke, you know, sit there

559
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: for a.

560
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: Few minutes in the car, and.

561
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:25,480
Speaker 12: Then it was raining outside and I started smoking, got

562
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 12: out the car, went to the to the driver's side,

563
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,320
Speaker 12: open the doorman, you know, old by the lady, have

564
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 12: some plastic, try to protect her for bean by the gators,

565
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 12: snakes or whatever, you know, and I slay her down

566
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 12: in the water.

567
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 1: After he drags her body into the water, he says,

568
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: he gets back in the car.

569
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 9: After DA got in the car, went I die four.

570
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 12: I guess I stole the car out, pull over to

571
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 12: his side.

572
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 16: He got the knife and got a towel of like.

573
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: Paused to towel that was.

574
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 13: In her car.

575
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 12: Drive and drive it, you know, thank you for sault

576
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 12: the car star willis.

577
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 1: Then Jeremy leaves the stalled out car and walks up

578
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:20,880
Speaker 1: the exit to a little store.

579
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 12: Car was there's a there's a dumpster and a little

580
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 12: store store closed.

581
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 2: I went out there up the hill.

582
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 12: I know that after the knife and the towel in

583
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 12: there in the trash, make sure it was, you know,

584
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 12: in deep in there.

585
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: As Kelsey and I listened to this, to this description

586
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: of Jeremy walking up a hill to this little store,

587
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 1: we can't help but notice the similarities between this and

588
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: what we'd heard from Leo about the night he found

589
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,080
Speaker 1: the Mazda. Jeremy's description is so similar to the way

590
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 1: Leo describes walking up a hill to the closed gas

591
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: station to call police. There was only one store off

592
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: that exit back in nineteen eighty seven, which means that

593
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: if we believe both of these men's stories, Leo was

594
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,680
Speaker 1: tracing Jeremy's footsteps when he was searching for Michelle just

595
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 1: forty eight hours after her murder, and Leo might have

596
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: been standing just feet away from the murder weapon that

597
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: Jeremy had dropped in the dumpster.

598
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 9: There.

599
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: Jeremy goes on, He says, he starts walking back towards

600
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: Lakeland when he sees the Mazda again on the side

601
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 1: of the road.

602
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 12: That's when I realized, you know, I get a stereo system,

603
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 12: and I took the figures out, and I and my

604
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 12: fingerprints off the.

605
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 2: Doors and stuff.

606
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 12: Again, that's how my pump rint got on the windshield

607
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 12: inside with the car. All I know is I went

608
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 12: to the nearest jailer oncoming road and I.

609
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: Was passed out the extor.

610
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: Most of what Jeremy says matches what we know where

611
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: Michelle's body was found and where the car was abandoned,

612
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 1: the condition of the car having stalled out, the murder

613
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: weapon which was never recovered, the equalizer and the speakers

614
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: that had been stolen, and the car must have been

615
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: wiped down because Michelle's prints were never found by crime

616
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: scene technicians. Michelle was found fully closed, and the medical

617
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: examiner found no signs of sexual assault, and the medical

618
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 1: examiner also documented scrapes on Michelle's back that were consistent

619
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: with her body being dragged after she'd been killed. But

620
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: Jeremy says a couple things that differ from what we know.

621
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:58,760
Speaker 1: Michelle's last known location was Sparky's, which is an Exxon station,

622
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: not a Texico, so he has the name of the

623
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 1: gas station wrong. And if they met right after she

624
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: made the call to Leo, it would have been closer

625
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: to ten o'clock, not midnight, as Jeremy says. But Jeremy

626
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: also says he was drunk and high, so it's not

627
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: a huge leap to assume he might not remember everything

628
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: in perfect detail, but the general circumstances seem to line up.

629
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,960
Speaker 1: It was already dark out and it was raining that night,

630
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: and he says she was at a gas station payphone

631
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,879
Speaker 1: when he approached her, the last place Michelle was seen

632
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: alive when she called Leo and said she was on

633
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: her way. Jeremy's detail about covering Michelle's body with plastic

634
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 1: also differs from what we know. There are no plastic

635
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,360
Speaker 1: sheets or tarps listed in the evidence logs, and Jeremy

636
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: doesn't mention the plywood that was covering her body. But

637
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: Jeremy's motivation for covering the body, what she says, was

638
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 1: to protect it from the alligators and snakes.

639
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 2: That might be in the water.

640
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: This detail hints at one more thing we can corroborate,

641
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 1: a sense of shame and remorse.

642
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 12: You know, I didn't mean to kill Michelle school, y'all.

643
00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 2: I never tend to do any harm. I panted the

644
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: night when she started hitting on me and I fell

645
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 2: out of my jacket. It was meant for nobody. You know,

646
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,280
Speaker 2: I lived alone on the streets.

647
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 12: I've been holding this confession for a long time. I

648
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 12: don't know what Leo is guilty of.

649
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 2: Whatever the state said he did in the other cases,

650
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: I don't know. I knew. No, he didn't murge White.

651
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 12: You might have did other things to work about.

652
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 2: He didn't kill her.

653
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 12: I'm going to take a line of tablement protect.

654
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 6: Here all of this, and this is my statement, and.

655
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: I will say it again on.

656
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:14,879
Speaker 12: A lit of port ram.

657
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, I appreciate it.

658
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 9: And that's uh. Out of this tape.

659
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: You know.

660
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 9: I come out of the jail and I'm as i'm

661
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 9: walking out, I'm still thinking in my mind, holy shit,

662
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 9: I can't believe this just happened. I can't wait to

663
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 9: get out and call Andrew. I remember going out to

664
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 9: my car and calling him up and said, uh, he

665
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 9: just gave me a sworn, taped confession of the murder.

666
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 7: That was like the best day ever. This is this one?

667
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 7: This time is really it?

668
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 9: Oh? This is it.

669
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 1: When Chrissy, Leo's wife, first got the news that Jeremy

670
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: Scott had confessed, she was flooded with emotion, as was Chrissy,

671
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 1: and Leo's daughter, Ashley. Yes, you heard that correctly. Chrissy

672
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: and Leo have a daughter. We should probably back up

673
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: for one second to tell you the story. After leaving

674
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: her visit with Leo one weekend back in the spring

675
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 1: of two thousand, Chrissy got in her car and soon

676
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: saw a woman she recognized walking on the side of

677
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: the road.

678
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 2: It was the.

679
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 1: Girlfriend of another inmate. The weather was bad that day

680
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: and this woman was pregnant, so Chrissy, being Chrissy, pulled

681
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 1: over and offered her a ride. On the drive, Chrissy

682
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: learned this young woman was struggling. Two of her children

683
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,919
Speaker 1: were already in foster care, and the young woman wasn't

684
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 1: ready to care for another. So that's when the Schofields

685
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: stepped in. Chrissy first met Ashley the day after she

686
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,160
Speaker 1: was born, and Leo held her in his arms during

687
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 1: visitation just a few days later. At first, the adoption

688
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 1: was informal. It took a few years for it to

689
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: be finalized, but Ashley was Leo and Chrissie's from the start.

690
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 1: Ashley is now in her early twenties. She says that

691
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: as a child she was raised on this little patch

692
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: of grass beside the visitation pavilion at Hardy Correctional and

693
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: that's where Ashley and Leo are sitting on that same

694
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: patch of grass the day Chrissy delivers.

695
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 7: The news, and I said, Jeremy confessed, and we just

696
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 7: all three of us just hugged and hugged and cried

697
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 7: and cried and hugged.

698
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: I couldn't do nothing but grab both of them and

699
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 2: hug him.

700
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 17: I mean, the guy confessed. I mean, we have physical evedents,

701
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 17: we have a confession with the detail.

702
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 2: I felt justice would finally the system would finally work.

703
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 3: I always believed that right would right itself somewhere. It

704
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,319
Speaker 3: can't be so bad and so corrupt that they keep

705
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 3: letting this go on and on and on. So I

706
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 3: told I told Ashley, I said, Dad, he's coming home.

707
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 7: This is it.

708
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 2: It's over.

709
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: The family starts getting ready for another day in court.

710
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 17: Yep, here we go again to prepare for the new hearing.

711
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 17: Sounds easy, like you just schedule hearing and you go,

712
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 17: But no, it takes months and months and months and

713
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,800
Speaker 17: months and months and months.

714
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,360
Speaker 1: Things are going to be a bit different at this hearing.

715
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: For one. John Aguero, the Assistant State attorney, he won't

716
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,320
Speaker 1: be there. John Aguero died suddenly in July of twenty

717
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: seventeen while visiting his daughter abroad in Morocco. So the

718
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: prosecutor with the old sparky tie clasp, the one who

719
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: was there the day they arrested Leo, the one who

720
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 1: tried to pursue the death penalty in Leo's trial even

721
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,720
Speaker 1: though he told Leo that he thought his father killed Michelle,

722
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: The one who had the forensic evidence in Leo's case destroyed.

723
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: This prosecutor who played such a huge role in Leo's

724
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: life the past twenty something years, he's gone, and in

725
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: an odd turn of events, Leo finds himself mourning his

726
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:54,919
Speaker 1: prosecutor's death.

727
00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,040
Speaker 3: I actually like Don Gurro, I felt, and listen, I

728
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 3: don't I mean, I shouldn't say like, I may be

729
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 3: wrong about this.

730
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 5: I y.

731
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 3: I believed early on that he believed in what he

732
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: was doing, because the alternative is to think that he's

733
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 3: doing it because.

734
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 2: I don't count, he doesn't care about justice. That's not

735
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 2: a good proposition for me.

736
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,120
Speaker 3: So I'm My fight was to prove my insence and

737
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 3: then hopefully one day show him.

738
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 2: And in this fantasy I have.

739
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:35,759
Speaker 3: Him admitting he was wrong, and then we can go

740
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 3: about and being friends or at least associates. And so

741
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,279
Speaker 3: when he died, a part of me died with him,

742
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 3: just because that opportunity is gone.

743
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 2: And in my faith, he knows the truth now, you know,

744
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:55,400
Speaker 2: And and.

745
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: I hope that him knowing that truth now is not

746
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 3: a reason why he's not comfortable today.

747
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,960
Speaker 1: In John Aguero's last years as assistant state Attorney, he

748
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: ran into some legal troubles of his own. In twenty eleven,

749
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: he was arrested for domestic battery during an argument with

750
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: his estranged wife. After a short retirement, the state attorney

751
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: brought him back not to try cases, but to mentor

752
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 1: up and coming prosecutors. One of those he mentored is

753
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: Victoria Avalon. She's now representing the state at Leo's evidentiary hearing. Basically,

754
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: she's the new John Aguero.

755
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 2: State versus. Leo Schofield eighty eight cf. Two three four

756
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:47,439
Speaker 2: six A one.

757
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: It's October twelfth, twenty seventeen. Just over a week ago,

758
00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: Jeremy Scott gave a tape confession to the murder of

759
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: Michelle Schofield. Leo and his attorneys gather in a Polk

760
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: County courtroom to present the new evidence. A phone confession,

761
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: the one he gave to Andrew and Sean, a written confession,

762
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,000
Speaker 1: the letter he sent to Andrew Crawford before the phone call,

763
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 1: and now a taped confession.

764
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: Mister Schofield is entering the courtroom.

765
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 17: Could we have appearances for the record please?

766
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,880
Speaker 1: Sitting next to Leo is Andrew Crawford.

767
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,319
Speaker 2: Andrew Crawford the attorney for mister Schofield.

768
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: And another attorney by the name of Seth Miller.

769
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 2: Mister Scofield.

770
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: Seth Miller works for the Innocence Project of Florida and

771
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: they're now representing Leo. Having the Innocence Project on your

772
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 1: side can lend a lot of credibility in legal proceedings

773
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,760
Speaker 1: like this one. On the other side of the courtroom

774
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 1: is Victoria Avalon, John Aguero's mentee, and seated beside her

775
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 1: is Jerry Hill. Jerry Hill was Aguero's boss and now

776
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: he's Victoria Avalon's boss. Victoria Avalon and Jerry Hill are

777
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: the last defenders of a Guero's legacy, though of course,

778
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: as representatives of the state, their official job is to

779
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:11,440
Speaker 1: pursue justice for Michelle Schofield. Each side is given the

780
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: opportunity to give an opening statement before the judge. Andrew

781
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: Crawford goes first.

782
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 5: Based on the fingerprints which forensically link mister Scott to

783
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 5: the homicide, as well as the subsequent admissions and confessions,

784
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 5: and respectfully asked the court to grant mister Scofield.

785
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 2: A new tribe.

786
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 1: Andrew's opening is quick and to the point, he argues

787
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: for less than three minutes, he's going to let the

788
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: evidence speak for itself. But then Victoria Avalon stands and

789
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: her opening statement goes on for nearly an hour.

790
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 16: Judge, this case doesn't really present you anything new factually,

791
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:53,680
Speaker 16: other than the newly discovered evidence that they're putting on.

792
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 16: Most all the facts that you are going to hear

793
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 16: over the next couple of days has been debated endlessly

794
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:01,280
Speaker 16: for years.

795
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: At its heart, Avalon's main point seems to be that

796
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: Jeremy Scott is not a reliable witness and therefore his

797
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: confessions have no credibility.

798
00:50:12,160 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 16: Mister Scott isn't trustworthy, and I'll tell you why. Since

799
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 16: the first time he's reached out to the defense in

800
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 16: twenty sixteen, he's flip flopped three times.

801
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 2: Who knows what he'll say today.

802
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: There's no doubt that Jeremy can be a difficult witness.

803
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: It's true that Jeremy confessed to Leo's lawyers and then

804
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: denied it when the state investigators came to see him,

805
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: and Avalon is saying that because of that, nothing Jeremy

806
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 1: says can be believed.

807
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,640
Speaker 16: The one thing that all of us in this room,

808
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 16: I think can agree on and will agree on, is

809
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 16: that Jeremy Scott is not a reliable witness.

810
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:51,480
Speaker 1: And then she also goes after Leo's credibility.

811
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 16: Yes, this was a circumstantial case, but that does not

812
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,800
Speaker 16: mean that we got the wrong man. We got the

813
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 16: right man, a man who now will do anything to

814
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:05,040
Speaker 16: get out of the justice. The ten good men and

815
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 16: women and true meet it out to him in nineteen

816
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 16: eighty nine.

817
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 1: She says that Leo, a man who has offered the

818
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,800
Speaker 1: chance to walk out of jail thirty years ago in

819
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: exchange for testimony against his father, a man who turned

820
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,719
Speaker 1: down Aguero's second degree murder plea deal that would have

821
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 1: freedom from prison decades ago. She says, this man, Leo Schofield,

822
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: would do anything to get out of prison, and then

823
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,160
Speaker 1: she turns her attention to Andrew Crawford and Seth Miller

824
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:39,720
Speaker 1: Leo's defense. She asks the judge to consider their motivations.

825
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 16: Evidence, who's looking for truth here and who's just trying

826
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 16: to win? You will know it when you see it.

827
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:51,120
Speaker 1: After Victoria Avalon takes fifty minutes to go after just

828
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 1: about everyone in the courtroom with her opening statement, it's

829
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: time to call the first witness.

830
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 2: Mister Miller, will you be calling the first witness? Yes,

831
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 2: said Jeremy Scott leaves Scott.

832
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 1: Jeremy's escorted to the stand. He's handcuffed and wearing an

833
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,120
Speaker 1: orange jumpsuit, and most of the photos from the hearing

834
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: his head hangs down. He looks exhausted and frail.

835
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 2: Hello, mister Scott, I want to take you back to

836
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 2: February twenty fourth, nineteen eighty seven, the day Michelle Schofield

837
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 2: was murdered. Do you recall having an interaction with Michelle

838
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 2: Scoffeld that night? I'm going a statement on record I

839
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,439
Speaker 2: say I say. Everything I say is on rig of court.

840
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, Joey, what I say in court is

841
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 2: where's true. You'll answer the questions, Sir I got say

842
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,920
Speaker 2: the singer, you answer the questions, the singer will be done, sir,

843
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 2: and I keep pulling me out of prison for this bullshit.

844
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 2: Can I have him declared as the hostile witness? You're

845
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 2: on there? Yes, okay, thank you.

846
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: Declaring Jeremy a hostile witness means Leo's attorneys can ask

847
00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:01,759
Speaker 1: him leading questions. It's the friends between asking where was

848
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,439
Speaker 1: Michelle Schofield when you approached her? And isn't it true

849
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: that you approached Michelle Schofield at the gas station? Mostly

850
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: they're yes or no questions, so it isn't ideal for

851
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: eliciting spontaneous answers, and it's something the defense was hoping

852
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:21,840
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have to do. After he's declared a hostile witness,

853
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,839
Speaker 1: Jeremy is still irritated, but he maintains the story he'd

854
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 1: given Andrew Crawford on the phone, and the story that

855
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: had been recorded by Pat McKenna a week before this hearing.

856
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 2: It's true that you stated in that interview that you

857
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 2: approached Michelle Scofield at the gas station. That's what I

858
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 2: said on or recorder. That's what I said, and that

859
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 2: Michelle Scofield was using a payphone at the time that

860
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:55,839
Speaker 2: you approached her, yes, sir, And that you were high

861
00:53:55,880 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 2: on drugs that night. I was drunk, went on drug

862
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 2: out drunk here right off drunk, And that you were

863
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:12,520
Speaker 2: drinking thunderbird wine, hey, sir. And that wine usually makes

864
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:15,480
Speaker 2: you violent, doesn't it, Yes, sir, it does.

865
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 1: His answers are brief, yes sir, no, sir, but ultimately

866
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: he sticks to the story. He confirms that he had

867
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,080
Speaker 1: asked Michelle Schofield for a ride, but that he directed

868
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 1: her to a makeout lake instead of the trailer park

869
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: he'd originally asked her to take him to. He confirms

870
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,320
Speaker 1: that once they got back there, he pulled out a

871
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 1: cigarette or maybe it was a joint, but that's when

872
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: his knife fell out. He confirms it was a small

873
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: hunting knife with a compass on the end, and that

874
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: he'd taken it from his uncle's closet. And he confirms

875
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,200
Speaker 1: that when Michelle saw the knife, she panicked and started

876
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 1: hitting him. He's cooperating, but barely.

877
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 2: Did you do with the knife?

878
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:06,680
Speaker 11: Listen, man, don't go into allis I can't. It's all right,

879
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 11: bad enough, it's all right, bad enough, all right. I

880
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 11: spent thirty buck years. All right, that's there you go.

881
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:14,440
Speaker 11: I'm confessing to the murder man.

882
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 2: I didn't do it. I'll take a polygraph test on that.

883
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 2: I just had some more questions. I don't have no

884
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:25,760
Speaker 2: more answers. Johnnor you will direct him answer the question.

885
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 12: No matter what said.

886
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 2: I haven't heard that. I don't care what you say.

887
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 2: I haven't heard the question yet. Asked the question, and

888
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:35,760
Speaker 2: I said everything I had to say. Did you stab

889
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 2: her with the knife? I told you I killed her.

890
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:51,000
Speaker 1: Jeremy confesses to killing Michelle. Then Seth begins to ask

891
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: him about his interactions with Prosecutor John Aguero. Jeremy acknowledges

892
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: the strange meeting, the meeting that happened behind hind closed

893
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 1: doors without any witnesses or recordings made. Jeremy says that

894
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: during that meeting, John Aguero had promised him help with

895
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 1: parole in exchange for his testimony about the stereo theft.

896
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 1: Aguero allegedly told him he had influence with the parole

897
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:22,760
Speaker 1: board and could make things happen if Jeremy quote stuck

898
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: to the story he'd been giving.

899
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 2: Did mister Guero help you come up with the testimony

900
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 2: that you would give at the twenty ten evidentiary hearing

901
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 2: in this case.

902
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 11: Not really, he just stay to to, in fact, what

903
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 11: I've been saying, because I've been telling the truth about

904
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:43,799
Speaker 11: my palm print.

905
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 2: There's nothing different about that.

906
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,800
Speaker 11: In the stereo I did steal the stereo thing I

907
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 11: deny it was Kofi, which was alive back then.

908
00:56:54,480 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Jeremy says, Aguero told you to stick to

909
00:57:00,719 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: his story about taking the stereo equipment. That was the truth.

910
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,080
Speaker 1: All Jeremy had to do was leave out the part

911
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 1: about killing Michelle. Seth hands the witness over for cross examination.

912
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:19,400
Speaker 1: Now it's the state's turn to ask questions. Victoria Avalon

913
00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:20,919
Speaker 1: approaches Jeremy Scott.

914
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:26,240
Speaker 16: Mister Scott is man. My name is Victoria Avalon. I'm

915
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 16: the prosecutor in case.

916
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,520
Speaker 1: I've tried a couple times to reach out to Victoria Avalon.

917
00:57:32,280 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: We've exchanged a few emails, but she's made it clear

918
00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: that she prefers her cases to be argued in a

919
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: court of law, not the court of public opinion, as

920
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 1: she's called it. I never really expected her to sit

921
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: down with us, but of course I had to try.

922
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,439
Speaker 1: In her last email, she told me it wouldn't bother

923
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,240
Speaker 1: me at all if you entirely ignored me in your reporting.

924
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 1: And now, after listening to Avalon's questioning of Jeremy Scott,

925
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 1: I know why she might want her work on this

926
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: case ignored.

927
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 9: Last week, you.

928
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,920
Speaker 16: Talked to the defense investigator, mister McKenna, didn't.

929
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 2: You, Yes, ma'am.

930
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,200
Speaker 1: Avalon asked Jeremy about his medications and what he was on,

931
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,240
Speaker 1: if anything, at the time he spoke to Pat McKenna.

932
00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: Being transferred between institutions, and especially back to a county jail,

933
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:25,720
Speaker 1: can be incredibly disruptive. Any sort of medical or psychological

934
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:28,919
Speaker 1: treatment might not be continued from one facility to the next.

935
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: At the time Jeremy gave his confession to Pat McKenna,

936
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: he was off his meds and had been placed in

937
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: a suicide cell. He's still off his meds. When Victoria

938
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: Avalon asked Jeremy about his movements between institutions, and Jeremy's

939
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:49,080
Speaker 1: getting agitated. His transfers have been so frequent it's hard

940
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: to keep them straight. And now he's back in the

941
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 1: Polk County jail, where the conditions are terrible.

942
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,280
Speaker 2: Y'all call me up this again.

943
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 16: I'm not calling, well, well, I'm here, and.

944
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 11: I'm gonna beginning to kind of ja in incite seal

945
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 11: in a cold floor, even with my fingers.

946
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 2: Waiting to go back to my camp. Let's get back

947
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 2: to my question, mister Scott. You gave two statements to.

948
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 1: My investigators, Avalon grills Jeremy about all the times he'd

949
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 1: previously denied killing Michelle Schofield. And as her cross examination

950
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: goes on, she gets loud and more aggressive.

951
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 16: But you're still never getting out and you know that,

952
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:39,280
Speaker 16: right you get down behind chain link.

953
00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 2: Right, objection has to answer to sustain.

954
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 16: Your grandmother's dead rights the her eye of this, your

955
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:54,120
Speaker 16: grandmother's dead right, Yes she is when recently, when recently

956
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,400
Speaker 16: cover years, she's the only one on earth that cared

957
00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 16: about you, wasn't She got to answer out loud, Yeah,

958
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:10,919
Speaker 16: No one's sending you any money, correct, No, ma'am.

959
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 2: This whole courtroom full of people, nobody's here for you. Ardly, No, ma'am.

960
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 16: You can't even afford to buy deodorant, can you. No, ma'am,

961
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 16: you gotta get money somehow, right, Yes, ma'am. Canteen ain't free,

962
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:31,439
Speaker 16: is it, No, ma'am?

963
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: For you it seems that Avalon is doing whatever she

964
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: can to go after Jeremy's credibility. It's as if she's saying, look,

965
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: he's a pathetic person. He's unstable, and he'll do anything

966
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:48,160
Speaker 1: to get a little money or a little attention, even

967
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 1: confessed to a murder he didn't commit. And she points

968
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 1: out all the times that Jeremy has given inconsistent statements

969
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: under oath. The judge will have to grapple with this.

970
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: In order to accept that Jeremy Scott is telling the

971
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: truth about Michelle Schofield's murder, he'll need to acknowledge that

972
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: Jeremy has previously lied under oath numerous times. So Avalon

973
01:01:12,200 --> 01:01:16,160
Speaker 1: is basically asking, how can we possibly know which version

974
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: of Jeremy's story is the truth. She's saying, we can't,

975
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: so Jeremy's confessions should be disregarded.

976
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,720
Speaker 16: You don't know he took the oath before he started testifying,

977
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,280
Speaker 16: didn't you, ma'am? He took the oath before he started

978
01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 16: testifying back in twenty.

979
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:38,280
Speaker 2: Ten, didn't you? Are you bashing me? That's not my question.

980
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 16: My question is you took the oath today, and you

981
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 16: took the oaths.

982
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 2: Before you testify? In twenty ten.

983
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: Right now, I just want to go back to mysel

984
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 1: Jeremy just begged to be sent back to his cell,

985
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 1: the same cell where he's sitting on a cold floor

986
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 1: and eating with his fingers. He'd rather be there than

987
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 1: here with Avalon. The judge tries to rein her in, Well.

988
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 16: We ain't gotten started yet, that's Avalan, Yes, sir, that

989
01:02:09,720 --> 01:02:10,360
Speaker 16: wasn't a question.

990
01:02:12,000 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 1: Then Victoria Avalon starts getting into specifics about the violent stabbing.

991
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:20,400
Speaker 1: She's asking Jeremy to demonstrate how he held the knife

992
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: and whether he first stabbed Michelle in the face or

993
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: in the chest. Jeremy says he was drunk and he

994
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 1: doesn't know.

995
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 2: You.

996
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 16: Take a look at this, mister Scott exhal.

997
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 2: Look at it. I got to see you before. See again.

998
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:42,080
Speaker 2: During the witness judge.

999
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:47,680
Speaker 1: Sustain, Avalon is holding up one of the photographs from

1000
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: Michelle's autopsy, one of the photos we saw in the

1001
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: evidence room. They're hard to look at, and Jeremy doesn't

1002
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 1: want to look.

1003
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 2: What you did to huff. I didn't hear that answer.

1004
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:08,520
Speaker 2: No I did do it.

1005
01:03:10,320 --> 01:03:15,640
Speaker 1: No I didn't do that. Victoria Avalon lets Jeremy's response

1006
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 1: hang in the air and decides to wrap up her

1007
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: cross examination. Now, Seth Miller re examines Jeremy Scott, and

1008
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: he uses his time to clarify Jeremy's response to Avalon.

1009
01:03:28,800 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 2: You were in a haze when you killed Michelle Schofield.

1010
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 2: Is that correct? So? I mean you don't remember how

1011
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 2: many times you stabbed her? Correct? You don't remember every

1012
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 2: single time you stabbed her. Correct. You don't remember every

1013
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,320
Speaker 2: location that you stabbed her in, Is that correct? You

1014
01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,840
Speaker 2: just know that you stabbed her, Yes, with that hunting

1015
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 2: knife with the compass on it. Correct. And you feel

1016
01:03:56,320 --> 01:04:00,080
Speaker 2: ashamed of doing it, don't you. Yes, that's why you

1017
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 2: want to look at the picture. That's why you gave

1018
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 2: that answer to Miss Avalance. That correct. I killed it.

1019
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: After the hearing, local reporters would fixate on Jeremy's words,

1020
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 1: not I killed her, but I didn't do that. This line,

1021
01:04:24,120 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: taken out of context, would come to define the hearing.

1022
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:35,480
Speaker 1: One headline read quote inmate recants his murder story. Susie Shattlecatty,

1023
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,360
Speaker 1: the Lakeland Ledger reporter who'd been covering the case for

1024
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:42,000
Speaker 1: twenty eight years, also believes that Jeremy recanted.

1025
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 16: I mean it was it was subtle, but it was

1026
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 16: he crumbled like a cheap suit.

1027
01:04:49,080 --> 01:04:53,000
Speaker 1: Even after Jeremy confessed multiple times on the stand, a

1028
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 1: recantation was the lasting impression on reporters. But listening to

1029
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 1: the recordings of this hearing, it's clear to me that

1030
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:06,760
Speaker 1: Jeremy Scott did not recant. Jeremy's words came after nearly

1031
01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: two hours on the stand, two hours of standing handcuffed

1032
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 1: before a judge, answering questions and having his words and

1033
01:05:14,560 --> 01:05:18,640
Speaker 1: his life scrutinized, and that's when Jeremy is confronted by

1034
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: the picture from Michelle's autopsy. It was Victoria Avalon's final

1035
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:28,520
Speaker 1: attempt to provoke him. This picture was taken after Michelle's

1036
01:05:28,520 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: body had been submerged in water for nearly three days.

1037
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,440
Speaker 1: She was laid out on the autopsy table under the

1038
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: harsh lights. Her wounds had been cleaned, and the damage

1039
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: the knife had done was clearly visible. That's what Jeremy

1040
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: was seeing when he said, no, I didn't do that,

1041
01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 1: But for me, it's something else. Jeremy says, his words

1042
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: at the end of the hearing that still haunt me.

1043
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 2: I killed it.

1044
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:16,480
Speaker 1: Bone Valley is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts

1045
01:06:16,640 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 1: in association with Signal Company Number One. Our executive producers

1046
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 1: are Jason Flohm and Kevin Wordiskak. Kornhaber is our senior producer.

1047
01:06:27,040 --> 01:06:31,400
Speaker 1: Brit Spangler is our sound designer. Ruxandra Guidy is our editor.

1048
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 1: Fact checking by Maximo Anderson. Our producer and researcher is

1049
01:06:37,080 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: Kelsey Decker. Our theme song, The One Who's Holding the Stars,

1050
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,680
Speaker 1: is performed by Lee Bob and The Truth. It was

1051
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,959
Speaker 1: written by Leo Schofield and Kevin Herrick in Florida's Hearty

1052
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:52,480
Speaker 1: Correctional Institution. Bone Valley is written and produced by me

1053
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 1: Gilbert King. You can follow the show on Instagram, Facebook,

1054
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: and Twitter at lava for Good to See