1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. The number one answer that 2 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: I want is what happened? I have asked too many 3 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: questions and I've been told that there are no answers. Yet. 4 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: I'm looking forward two all of the powers that be 5 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 1: to come up with the answers to make me more 6 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: satisfied that they are doing what is in the best 7 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: interest of getting justice for both them. You're hearing the 8 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: mother of both them, Jane. That's Alison Jane speaking through 9 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: her pain as she searches for answers as to why 10 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: her son a really shining star. A twenty six year 11 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: old young man with his life before him, had done 12 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: great in school, had an awesome job, had a beautiful 13 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: apartment that he kept neat as a pen. He's at 14 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: home reading in his apartment at night when a cop, 15 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: a Dallas cop, comes through the door. He stands up 16 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: and she guns him down dead. And the defense is, 17 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: I hope you're sitting down that she was in the 18 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: wrong apartment. She thought it was her apartment. Now I 19 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: had a problem with that. Now, a lot of people claiming, oh, 20 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: it's a racial issue, you know what, Maybe it is. 21 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: I don't know that. But my real problem I don't 22 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: care about the white, the black that this that that 23 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: I care about. How can a cop who's just come 24 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: off duty, who we assume is going to be stone cole, sober, 25 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: maybe even a little wired up from working a beat 26 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 1: on the street, still in uniform, goes to the wrong apartment, 27 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: doesn't notice a key fact about a bright red doormat 28 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: his apartment has it hers, doesn't jen notice that the 29 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: we're now taking a close look at the part the 30 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: apartment itself. The numbers on the apartments are lit up 31 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: in neon knee on. You walk in, you can't see 32 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: that's not your furniture. But still gunn somebody down. Now 33 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: we are hearing that the doors to the apartments. And 34 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: I've had these at in many places where I live, 35 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: so I know, and still in New York, a heavy 36 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: metal fire door is your door. That's very common. A 37 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: heavy metal fire doors that automatically slam shut, allegedly in 38 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: this building where both of them lived. And listen to 39 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: this natural sam We've obtained um the video of how 40 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: this door works. Okay, you you can't hear it at 41 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: the beginning, but you can hear with the shutting that 42 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: that's one of those heavy metal doors from my apartment. 43 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: Door closes. Uh, you can hear, whether you barely its 44 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: three inches to the door jam or not, you can 45 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: hear just like that. That says a lot to me, 46 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,839 Speaker 1: which I will explain. Joining me right now, Syndicated talk 47 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: show host Dave mac Also with me right now, New 48 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: York psychologist Karen Stark, Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina lawyer and 49 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, Nashville p D turned private eye Dave mc 50 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: let's just start at the beginning for people that are 51 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: not familiar with shooting death of this young twenty six 52 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,839 Speaker 1: year old man, both of Jane. What happened that night 53 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: of an off duty police officer who had just finished 54 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: her shift, who lived directly below the victim. Here, she 55 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: comes home, she parks in the wrong carking deck, one 56 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: deck higher than she normally parks, and goes into if 57 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: you believe her story, she goes to her apartment what 58 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: she believes to be her apartment, and the door is 59 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: a jar. She opens the door, lights her all out, 60 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: and she sees the silhouette of a man who is 61 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,039 Speaker 1: not obeying her commands to do whatever. The problem here 62 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,559 Speaker 1: is that we don't have an answer as to why 63 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: or anything else except for the fact that we have 64 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: one six year old young man and a police officer 65 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: with no reasonable story that can be believed. I'm taking 66 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: a look at the door right now, the front door 67 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: of apartment directly below both of Jane's. Now, this is 68 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: Amber Geiger, the police officers front door. The panel to 69 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: the left of her door has the apartment lit up 70 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: in neon. You can't help but see it, Jack, You 71 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: look at this, see that's how it looks. It's so 72 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: too long, rectangular strip by every door, very clear, and 73 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,359 Speaker 1: this is kind of like, um, I don't know what 74 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: that style of art would be, geometric. It's a rectangle. 75 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: It looks to be like maybe three or four ft long. 76 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: It's beside to the left of every door. It's decoration, 77 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: and there are several squares lit up white neon squares 78 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: within the rectangle. The it's vertical, and underneath the first 79 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 1: square you see your apartment number lit up fourteen seventy eight. 80 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 1: It's literally lit up in neon beside the door. That's 81 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: what I'm I'm saying. Both of Jeanne was shot and 82 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: killed by a Dallas police officer, Amber Geiger, who says 83 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: it was a mistake that she went into both of 84 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: Jean's apartment four seventy eight thinking it was her own, 85 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: But the door numbers are clearly visible. Now, let me 86 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: go back to you, David Matt, syndicated talk show host, 87 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: What can you tell me again about the red, bright, red, 88 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: deep red doormat? Well, it was something that that both 89 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: put there on purpose to differentiate his apartment from all 90 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: of the others around him. And if you actually look 91 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: at the pictures we've seen, nobody else has a red 92 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 1: Matt in front of the apartment, and certainly not miss Geiger. 93 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: She didn't have them out in front of her apartment. 94 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 1: There's no excuse there that could have been a mistake. 95 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: There's nothing Her red semi circular doormat outside both of 96 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 1: Jean's apart meant hers was there. I would have noticed 97 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: that if I came home and suddenly there was a 98 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: bright red doormat that I hadn't bought, and it was 99 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: because I know, I can tell you this, My husband, 100 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: David is not slung up at the bed bath and beyond. 101 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: That's not happening, okay, And nobody but me is going 102 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: to take time out to order anything on Amazon not happening. 103 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: In fact, our code to Amazon is highly classified because 104 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: if the twins had that, I'd be in the poorhouse 105 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: for sure. So if I came home and see a 106 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 1: red doormat, I'm gonna notice it. And you gotta keep 107 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: in mind. As I was describing how the numbers are 108 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: lit up in Neon, I'm looking now at the front 109 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: of the apartment. It's very geometric looking. Check this out, Jackie, 110 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: Jackie Howard here in the studio with me. See everything. 111 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: If you look at the front of the building is 112 00:07:53,920 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 1: lock tall, rectangular, it's very geometric designing. The building is 113 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: a square, it's very let me just say contemporary. And 114 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: the front of the building is decorated in rectangles, different 115 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: types of rectangles. Now, also, as she would, Jackie's holding 116 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: up a sign, yes that you would feel the doormat 117 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: as you walk across and get your key, which leads 118 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: me to the key. Hold on, Vincent, Kathleen and Karen, 119 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: I just got to give you these facts. David Mack 120 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: tell me about the key. It's an electronic key. Yeah, 121 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: they're electronic keys, and they won't open any door other 122 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: than the one that they're coded for. So the key 123 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: for thirteen seventy eight Miss Geiger's apartment would only open 124 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: thirteen seventy eight. It would not have opened fourteen seventy eight. 125 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: And you gotta remember her claim that the door was 126 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: a jar. We already throved earlier that that wouldn't happen 127 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: because they automatically closed. So the options for what she's 128 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: claiming nothing holds true to her story at all. But 129 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: that key, the electronic key, the only one that would 130 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: work is fourteen seven, and both those keys were found 131 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: inside the apartment. Guys, speaking of murder, if you have 132 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers, do not miss 133 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: the new docuseries on Oxygen. It's the true story of 134 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: a teen girl, a cheerleader in Mississippi who is burned 135 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: alive and the story of the man accused of this 136 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: heinous crime. Is that the right guy on trial? Who 137 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: is he? And who is Jessica Chambers? And how does 138 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: such a horrific crime occur? With more questions than answers, 139 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: this is the case that has captured national headlines, taken 140 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: over social media, and leaves a small town divided. This 141 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: is a must see TV event. It features exclusive interviews 142 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: that take you inside the investigation as a search for 143 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: answers and justice goes on. Unspeakable Crime, The killing of 144 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: Jessica Chambers, Saturdays at seven A Central on Oxygen, the 145 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 1: new network for Crime. I am faithful because of both them, 146 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: as you are no idea. Times when you feel like 147 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 1: giving up, I could not give up because of both them. 148 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: I'm right now in his death. I can never give 149 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: up because I know that both them is singing with 150 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: the angels, and I want to join that quile the 151 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: incredible composure of both them. Jane's mother, Alison Jane, speaking 152 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: of for the church congregation about her son, who was 153 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: shot dead in his own apartment, reportedly lying on sofa 154 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: or sitting on the sofa reading when a Dallas cop, 155 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 1: a female Amber Geiger, comes in and opens fire. Joining me, 156 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: Vincent Hill, private eye, former cop, Kathleen Murth, North Carolina 157 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: lawyer Karen Start, New York psychologist and syndicated talk show 158 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 1: host Dave Matt. Let's start with you, Vincent Hill. What 159 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: do you make of it? Nancy? There's so many things 160 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: missing here that I questioned with this story. I mean, 161 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: she says she went in, she saw a guy when 162 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 1: she thought was her apartment. But here's the thing. As 163 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: a police officer, if I'm yelling commands, I would expect 164 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: some neighbor to be able to say, yes, I heard 165 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: her say show me your hands or something like that. 166 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: You didn't hear any reports of that, Nancy. And we 167 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: also tell uh citizens, hey, if you get to your 168 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: house and you see your doors open, don't go in, 169 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: come out and call police. Why didn't she call for 170 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: backup if her door was ajar as she claimed. And 171 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: more importantly, where's this miss key reading if she put 172 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: her key into that door? Because it's all electronic, it's 173 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: all monitored, so we should be able to go in 174 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: and see. Yes, she did indeed put the key in 175 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: the door, but I don't think we'll be able to 176 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: see that. Now. You said something very important. Well, everything 177 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: you said was critical in my mind, Vincent Hill. Uh, 178 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: you're a former turned private eye speaking of the neighbors 179 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 1: not hearing her say stand down, stand down, put your 180 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: arms up, put your hands in there here. No. In fact, 181 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: witnesses are coming forward its claiming they heard bamming on 182 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: the door and a woman yelling out let me in, 183 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: Let me in now, Vice and Hill. Eye witness testimony 184 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: is often attacked under cross exam. What about ear witnesses. Yeah, 185 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: I think there's no question these neighbors heard exactly what 186 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: they heard. The problem, of course, when this goes to 187 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: trowel is how can you identify that voice? You know? 188 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: But at this this point that's neither here nor there. 189 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: More importantly, Nancy, I would expect someone because trust me 190 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: as a police officer, and I did that job for 191 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: many years. If I'm yelling at someone with commands and 192 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: my weapon is drawn, you better believe the entire neighborhood 193 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:52,839 Speaker 1: would be able to hear. Man, You're not kidding about that. 194 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: If you've ever been at the scene, when copsy l 195 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: put your hands out, put your hands up, they're screaming 196 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: it out. Kathleen Murphy um that. I'm a North Carolina lawyer. Kathleen, 197 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: I can't help but wonder if there's some connection between 198 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: both them and both the Gene and Amber Geiger the cop. 199 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: It's just because the story doesn't make sense to me. 200 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: But on another note, when I'm saying eye witness testimony 201 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: is often attacked in court, your witness testimony could be 202 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: a problem as well. Unless there's more than one witness 203 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: saying they heard it. Well, there is a connection Nancy, 204 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: and I'd like to read this. But she wrote a 205 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: complaint to the apartment complex about our victim, that he 206 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: was making too much noise. And that was about a 207 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: week before this incident happened. And Vincent makes wonderful points, 208 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,439 Speaker 1: But on a previous show, he also made a point 209 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 1: that she would have not gone into a dark room. 210 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: She would have had her flash fight on and both 211 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: of them. Sister said she's afraid. He's afraid of the dark. 212 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: So was he reading a book in the dark. And 213 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: there's just too many holes in the story. And there 214 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: is a connection there. You know, she had only lived 215 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: in the building for a very short time. It was 216 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: a very expensive building. The prices in the block, it's 217 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: Dallas's gentrifying South Side area, start at rising to two thousand, 218 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: four hundred and thirty five dollars a month. Now. The 219 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: Dallas Police headquarters on Lamar Street is directly next door. Now, 220 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 1: this guy, both of Jane, was a graduate of Harding 221 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: University in Arkansas. Now it appeared that both he and 222 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: Geiger had good relations with all of their neighbors. I'm 223 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 1: very curious about this noise report that you're telling me 224 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 1: about that she filed on him. I know there were 225 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: noise complaints that day about upstairs activity in his apartment. 226 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: He got a call about noise coming from his department 227 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: from the downstairs neighbor. That had to be her. Is 228 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: that the report you're talking about, Kathleen thing about And 229 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a written report or not. 230 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if she called it in, but there's 231 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: a report out there made by her against our victim. Now, 232 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: according to his family, they say they did not know 233 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: each other. There's no relationship. Catches, she had only been 234 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: living there a month, a little over a month prior 235 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: to the shooting. And then if it's herd already been 236 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: complaining about noise overhead, I'm looking at her right now 237 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: and him according again, according to his family, no relationship 238 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: to Karen Start New York psychologists. We now have complaints 239 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: that the victim in this case, both of Jane, who 240 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: never has had any police problem nothing, is now being 241 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: attacked and dragged through the mud his reputation. Why I 242 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: would think that that would have to do with the 243 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: fact that she's a police officer. Nancy Oh, they're trying 244 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: to find ways to make it look like he was 245 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: doing something wrong. There was something suspicious going on, trying 246 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: to back her up in some way by demigrating this guy, 247 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 1: which it's along with the whole story is a mess 248 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: because it doesn't make a lot of sense. This is 249 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 1: a good kid who really sounds like he was sitting 250 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: there innocently and was shot. And I wonder how about 251 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:32,080 Speaker 1: her own anger at the policewoman. It's so, was she 252 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: excessively aggressive? Did she have a history where people knew that? 253 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 1: What's her history? And the police force too, well what 254 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: they're saying right now, there are complaints Dallas police investigators 255 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: seeking evidence, reportedly, according to their critics, to discredit both 256 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: of Jane who was shot dead by a white off 257 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: duty officer. Now that's according to the victims family. Police 258 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: did execute multiple search warrant at both of his apartment 259 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: in the aftermath of the killing, and complaints are they 260 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: should have been in her apartment looking for whatever they 261 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 1: could find evidence relevant to the homicide investigation, but instead 262 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: they were looking in his apartment. What about that, your 263 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: former cap Vincent Hill, Well, Nancy, I can understand the 264 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: search warrant of his apartment simply because it was an 265 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: active crime scene. Right, there was a shooting there, So 266 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: I understand that piece of it. But what they found 267 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,120 Speaker 1: in that search warrant has absolutely nothing to do with 268 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: the shooting. There's reports that ten point five grams and 269 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: marijuana were found there. So what he was in his apartment, 270 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: if he's using Mirijuana for recreational use, who cares? It 271 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: has absolutely nothing to do with the shooting. But I 272 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: would assume a defense attorney will come back and say, well, 273 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: there was marijuana found. That's why he wasn't listening to 274 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: her commands, and that's what calls the shooting. I think 275 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: that's what the intent hears. Nancy, Well, what about the 276 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: use of deadly force? If she she just says in 277 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: her own statement that she saw him and took out 278 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: her pistol, took out her firearm, I don't understand that 279 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: that is the correct standard for an officer to use 280 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: deadly force. Vincent, Well, any citizen can do that, Nancy, 281 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: if you come into your home and you see someone 282 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: in there, and you can protect your domicile in that way, 283 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: up too deadly force. So I understand that part, But 284 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 1: what I don't understand is based on her training and 285 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: based on what we tell citizens to do, she should 286 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: have handled that totally different. I didn't see any reports 287 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: that she keyed up on the radio to dispatch to say, 288 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:42,159 Speaker 1: there's someone in my apartment, sent backup. Nothing like that, Nancy, 289 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: only until she called from her cell phone that she 290 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: even alert police that something was going on. When police 291 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 1: go in to search, it's signs of life, and they're 292 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: very poignant. A half eaten bowl of cereal, of flip 293 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 1: flop still lying there where he was killed. Metal fire 294 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: doors that slam locked, contradict to her claims that it 295 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 1: was open and she went in. I'm looking at the 296 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: scenes and it looks as if he was sitting there, 297 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:20,479 Speaker 1: maybe even having cereal and reading. I'm looking at it. 298 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: It's an autobiography of Gucci Maine. There's his flip flop, 299 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: the home with a large tech of pillows on the sofa, 300 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,400 Speaker 1: pillows and blankets there. I'm just looking at it. Looks 301 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:38,200 Speaker 1: like a typical guy's home, kind of messy, kind of clean, 302 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: and I can imagine him sitting there minding his own business, 303 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: just before he has gunned down. Right now, more questions 304 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: than answers in the shooting of this unarmed man in 305 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: his own apartment, just twenty six year old. Right now 306 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: joining me as special guest, the lawyer for both of 307 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: Jean's family, longtime friend and colleague, Benjamin Crump, being thank 308 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: you so much for being with us. Now, why are 309 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: you sure or are you sure that the shooting was 310 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 1: racially motivated? We don't have any evidence at this time 311 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: to demonstrate one way or the other whether racism was 312 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 1: a factor in this crime. I would be more focused 313 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: at this point on finding motive. Of course, the state 314 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: doesn't have to prove motive, but in this case, any 315 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: jury is going to want to know the motive if 316 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:36,479 Speaker 1: it's not a racially motive motivated crime. For instance, I 317 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: know that she Uh the officer had complained and made 318 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: a noise complaint. Did they have words? Was she angry? 319 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: Was he angry? According to witnesses now emerging, they heard 320 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: a woman bamming on a door saying let me in, 321 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: let me in. But let me ask you this, Ben, 322 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: do you have any reason to believe officer Geiger and 323 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: both of them Jane had any connection before the shooting, 324 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: like some kind of relationship. Again, we don't have any information, 325 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: uh to know that at this time. And that's the 326 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: one of the big things is we are waiting to 327 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: get the phone records, not only from both of them, John, 328 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: but also from the police officers phone records to determine 329 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,679 Speaker 1: if they had any interaction whatsoever. You know, everyone with me, 330 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:30,200 Speaker 1: Benjamin Crump, Ben, how could Geiger not know it wasn't 331 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 1: her apartment because of the big red and I mean 332 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: red candy apple red rug, you know, one of those 333 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: semi circular rugs doormats, and there was a different number. 334 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: Not only that it was lit up in neon, Ben. 335 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: It's just mind boggling when you think about it. Uh, 336 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: both of them, John had a big red rug right 337 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: out front his apartment for the very reason people would 338 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: know that that was his apartment. Uh. Also, when you 339 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: think about the probable cause after David that they used 340 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: to issue the warrant. In that statement, the Texas Rangers, 341 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: based on what we believe could only be her account 342 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: says that the door was a jar, that it wasn't locked, 343 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: And that's hard to believe when you look at that door. 344 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: How it has a very heavy latch that pulls the 345 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: door closes the door won't stay open on its own 346 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: and the fact that she claims to have put the 347 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,880 Speaker 1: key in the door with the door is open, Why 348 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,959 Speaker 1: would you put the key in the door. These are 349 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: things that just trouble both of John's family to no 350 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: end because they still cannot understand why he is in 351 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: his apartment, minding his business, doing everything he has the 352 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 1: legal right to do, and the police officer breaks in 353 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: and kills him, and now she's attempting to claim in 354 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: some way a self defense argument. It just makes no 355 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,639 Speaker 1: sense to them at all. I mean, guys, you gotta 356 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: gotta look at this from both of Jane's family point 357 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: of view or your think about it. If you're in 358 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: your own home and a cop comes in the front 359 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: door and shoots you dead while you're in your own home. 360 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: There was a half eating bowl of cereal, there were 361 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: books laying around. Was he just sitting there having cereal 362 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 1: leading a book? And now he's dead. We are looking 363 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: for answers, and to you, Vincent Hill, former cop turned 364 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: p I Vincent, did you hear what Ben just said? 365 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: And he's right. I've been concerned about this big metal door. 366 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: We just played it. You can hear it slam shut, 367 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: and I can relate to that because that's the way 368 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: the door is in our apartment in New York. It 369 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 1: slams shut. I have to rig it to make it 370 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: be open. Like if I go out to throw trash 371 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 1: down the shoot down the hall, I have to rig 372 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: the door to make it stay open or it will 373 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: shut behind me and I'll be out in the hall. 374 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: So we played that. You can hear the door shutting. 375 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: But listen to this, Vincent Hill, based on what Ben 376 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: Crump just said, Officer guy Gert does say she used 377 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: her key. Now I think it's an electronic key. But 378 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,160 Speaker 1: if the door was a jar, why would she need 379 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: to use her key? Why would you even go in 380 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: if the door is open when you get home? Vincent, 381 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: this this story doesn't make sense. Well, Nancy, there's just 382 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: too many contradictions him that she says it was a jar, 383 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: but I used my key, which is an electronic key. Again, 384 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,880 Speaker 1: I want to see a record that the wrong key 385 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,840 Speaker 1: was put into his door. That should be recorded because 386 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: all of that is electronic. But police officers tell people, 387 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 1: when you come to your house, your door is a jar, 388 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 1: call us, wait for us to go in and clear it. 389 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 1: And I'm troubled that I didn't hear any radio transmission 390 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: from this officer saying, Hey, someone's at my house, please 391 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: and uh, some additional units so we can go in 392 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: and clear my house. Because she didn't know if it 393 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: was her apartment, what was on the other side of 394 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: that door. It could have been five or six people 395 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: waiting there to ambush her. So why would she just 396 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 1: go in? Well, here's another thing to Dr Lauren Howard, 397 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 1: New York Psychologists joining me, Lauren, here's the thing she probably, 398 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: and I'm projecting, felt that as a cop, she had 399 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: to explain, I had to say something, give some explanation. Okay, 400 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: she couldn't take the fifth for Pete's sake, But her 401 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,919 Speaker 1: story is getting all twisted up. Well, it's getting all 402 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: twisted up, because when a story gets twisted up, what 403 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: did I tell you that the story is not accurate? 404 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: You know, one thing we know is police to gather 405 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: around one another. I mean, it's pretty rare for police 406 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: to get convicted. And and that's wrong. I mean that 407 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,359 Speaker 1: is patently wrong. Whether this was racially motivated or based 408 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: on the past history between the two of them, some 409 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: disagreement they had or simply just she screwed up, walked 410 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: in the wrong apartment, saw a large person and shot first. 411 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 1: It doesn't know. I mean when you say cops rally 412 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: around each other, they're they're like family because they've been 413 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,879 Speaker 1: in basically combat conditions for years on end, and in 414 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: their mind they're like, I know her, she did not 415 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: do this on purpose. But they may or may not 416 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 1: be wrong. I hear what you're saying. Back to Ben Crump, 417 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: the family lawyer for both of Jean's family, Ben, what 418 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: does the family learned, if anything, from all the neighbors. 419 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: I understand they've come forward to you with information about 420 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 1: what they heard that night. Certainly there were neighbors who 421 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:47,440 Speaker 1: came forward to the family, and they believe that they 422 00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: heard not only uh uh conversation or verbal communication before 423 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: the good shots, they also her uh knocking at the 424 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: door on more than one occasion before they heard the gunshots. 425 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:12,400 Speaker 1: So if this was allegedly her apartment, so she says, 426 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: why would she be knocking on the door that door 427 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,919 Speaker 1: that was open. In their mind, so they don't think 428 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: the things that are coming out in the media are accurate. 429 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: So that's why they came forward to the family. And 430 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: we then forwarded them to the District Attorney's office and 431 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: the law enforcement authorities to make sure that their statements 432 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: were recorded for the use of information gathering in this case. Also, 433 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: I might add that she admits that there were in 434 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,879 Speaker 1: verbal commands that she issued, I wanna ask you this, 435 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: and that I said, you and your apartment. Somebody comes 436 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: in and they starts yelling at your issuing verbal commands. 437 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,960 Speaker 1: Wouldn't the person say something back in response? Where based 438 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: on what we know from this affidavit, she claims that 439 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: both of john doesn't say anything in response. In fact, 440 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: she claims that she just sees this dark figure in 441 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: the shadows and she shoots into the apartment from outside 442 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 1: the apartment. Now, this is something that I don't I 443 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,640 Speaker 1: don't believe even a reasonable citizen would do. But this 444 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 1: is supposed to be a well trained police officer. Where 445 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: is that in the training, Nancy? Where is that in 446 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: the policy? Will you shoot into a dark apartment that 447 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: you don't know who is in there? Why couldn't she 448 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: have just taken the perimeter? She failed her policy was 449 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: being burglarized and called for back up. The police department 450 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: was less than three minutes from this apartment complex. There 451 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: is no reason both of them John should be dead. Uh, 452 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: black people get killed, and some of the most offitrayal 453 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: ways in America, you know, driving while black while we're 454 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: in our automobiles, walking while black, while we're in our neighborhoods. 455 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: And now it's living while black while we're in our 456 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: own apartments and houses, doing everything that we have the 457 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: legal right to do. And that's what's so outrageous about 458 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: this case. Not only is it shocking to both of 459 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:31,719 Speaker 1: Jones family, it is astonishing to many sensible people, not 460 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: only in America but all around the world. This is 461 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: crime Stories. We are taking your calls. We are talking 462 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: about the shooting of an unarmed man in his own apartment. 463 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: The female cot they gunning down climbs. She thought she 464 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: was in her apartment. Nine nine crime nine zero nine 465 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: four nine to seven four six three. Let's go straight 466 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: to the causes. Is Morgan from Texas All lost you 467 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,959 Speaker 1: high Morgan. It's very confusing. There's a lot of different 468 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: facts and a lot of the theories out there, and 469 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: I looked at this affidavit, it's not all adding up. 470 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: And on top of that, I've seen that the victims 471 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: family is now being represented by Lee Merritt, a civil 472 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: rights attorney, and she's contesting several allegations from you know, 473 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: the way that Geiger has claimed to enter the apartment, 474 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: to the interaction between um Bottom, John and Geiger. And 475 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: now I'm hearing of this new witness who didn't come 476 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: forward to the police but is now telling the family 477 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: that she overheard conversation and knocks and gunshots. So what 478 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 1: do we do with this, with this evidence or or 479 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 1: these facts, Nancy? And and do we think that this 480 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: manslaughter charge is gonna stick or do we think we're 481 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 1: going to see a murder charge? I anticipate that the 482 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: charges will be upgraded by the grand injury. Let me 483 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: throw that to visit He'll private investor, Gator, former cop Vincent. 484 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 1: They earwitnesses that her banning at the door and let 485 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: me in, let me in. They're going to be attacked 486 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 1: on cross exam because again there are those big metal doors, 487 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 1: and the defense is going to claimb they could not 488 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: possibly have heard that. Well I disagree, because it's hot. 489 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: There's a very good chance they may have had their 490 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: windows open. But that's going to be an issue for 491 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: a jury to decide if they're telling the truth. Yeah, 492 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: that's definitely gonna be up to the jury to believe it. 493 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,959 Speaker 1: But of course the defense is going to say, well, 494 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: why didn't you go to police immediately when you heard that? 495 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: Just like the caller said, you went to the attorney first. 496 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,040 Speaker 1: So as a defense attorney, of course they're going to say, well, 497 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: how do we know you're not making this up? How 498 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: come you didn't say this when police were there on 499 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: the scene when he was shot. So all of that 500 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: stuff will come into question when this goes to trial. 501 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: And Anti joining me right now a lawyer from Florida, welcome. 502 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,239 Speaker 1: What's your question? One question I had, Nancy is um, 503 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: has there been any further discussion or mention of UM 504 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: some photographs of the two of them, of the victim 505 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:14,239 Speaker 1: and UM, the and Geiger together. UM. I know some 506 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: of those are floating around the internet. I don't know 507 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: if they're real, and I wondered if you had any 508 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: more information on that, again, knowing that you may not 509 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: have access to a lot of information yet because it's 510 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: an open, ongoing criminal investigation. Anyway, thank you for your 511 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: hard work, Nancy, Thanks for your call. I have been 512 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: destroyed by those photos as well, and I've learned the 513 00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: hard way. You think it's someone in the patron, it 514 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: turns out to be someone similar to them. So I'm 515 00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: waiting for these photos to be verified of both of 516 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: Jane allegedly with Officer Geiger before this incident. I honestly 517 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,480 Speaker 1: cannot look at it objectively and say yeah or nay. 518 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: So I'm waiting for that to be verified. And if 519 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,760 Speaker 1: it is verified, she is in a lot of trouble 520 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: because it would prove they had some sort of a 521 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: familiarity before the shooting. Very quickly to Ben Crump before 522 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 1: he heads back into court, being officer Geiger got some 523 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: real curb services, I like to call it by the police. 524 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,400 Speaker 1: And then she got in at seven thirty in the 525 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 1: in the evening and out by eight thirty, booked out 526 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: the eight the back door, so she didn't have to 527 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: do a purple walk. What was that, Ben? We certainly 528 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: are concerned that this police officer is getting preferential treatment. Uh. 529 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: Not only is she not arrested the day of the shooting, 530 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: because considered this Nancy, regular citizens, you're officer of the court, 531 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: you're an attorney. If somebody claimed that they allegedly went 532 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: into the wrong apartment and then they shot and killed 533 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:01,240 Speaker 1: the innocent homeowner. We won't be allowed to go home 534 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 1: that night. You would be arrested that night. And not 535 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: only that she is the suspect, but she's ter adding 536 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: with the crime scene with the police officers while they're 537 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: doing this alleged investigation. And so we believe that she 538 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 1: is getting preferential treatment, and she's been getting preferential treatment 539 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: before from the beginning. It took them over seventy two 540 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: hours before they finally arrested her, and that was very 541 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: troubling to both of Jones's family because they understood that 542 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: their son was in his apartment innocent and the person 543 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: who killed him got to go home and sleep in 544 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: her bed, uh for three nights before she was even arrested. Yeah, 545 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: would still be in the y'all right now, Ben, what 546 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: is that family? Hope the grand jury will do well. 547 00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: Both of John's family hopes and believes and expects that 548 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 1: the grand jury will hear all the evidence and based 549 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 1: on that evidence, based on what they know, they believe 550 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: it should be murder. However, we have told them, as 551 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: their family attorneys, that it is very difficult to convict 552 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: the police officer, especially what we've seen in history, UH 553 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: when the person is a person of color UH and 554 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: the police officer is white, that there would be a 555 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: conviction of murder. Manslaughter is easier UH conviction to get 556 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 1: from the prosecutor. However, if what these witnesses say are true, 557 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 1: then it certainly will lean towards that this was a murder. 558 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: We will wait till we get all the information to 559 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,080 Speaker 1: make that determination. Now, said that I were glad to 560 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: come back on and share with few. Not only are 561 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,480 Speaker 1: what we believe is strategy going forward in the civil 562 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: room for death matter, but also what the family believes 563 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,399 Speaker 1: is the correct charge based on the information that they 564 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: are being given. As the victims question, how is his 565 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,719 Speaker 1: mom doing well? That says, as a mother, you can 566 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: imagine that this is her son, her child. Uh. He 567 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: came from her wound. It is something that is so 568 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:41,480 Speaker 1: unnatural in so many ways. And both of them was 569 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 1: doing exceptionally well in life. He was just a tremendous 570 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 1: young man. His homegoing celebration was just one that with 571 00:36:55,719 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 1: rival the best UH citizen that anybody whatever. Though he 572 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:08,200 Speaker 1: had the chairman of UH Price Waterhouse Cooper accounting firm. 573 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: He was college educated, he was an accountant. He was 574 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:19,080 Speaker 1: doing everything right. He was a believer. He sung in 575 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: the church choir. I mean, he was a tremendous young 576 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: man on every level. And so his mother is devastated. 577 00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,040 Speaker 1: His mother is completely devastated that she had to bury 578 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,799 Speaker 1: her child, Clump. Thank you for being with us, Vincent Hill, 579 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 1: Lauren Howard, Dave mac We wait for justice. Two months old, 580 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace comes story, signing off Get My Friend,