WEBVTT - Maya's Slight Change of Plans 0:00:14.916 --> 0:00:32.716 Pushkin. My dad jokes that when I was like a 0:00:32.756 --> 0:00:34.796 five year old or whatnot, he'd come down to the 0:00:34.796 --> 0:00:37.636 basement and I'd be with my little kitchen set, and 0:00:37.636 --> 0:00:42.396 I'd be on this pretend phone having conversations with my 0:00:42.436 --> 0:00:46.756 fictitious neighbors about my rebellious children. I'd be like, Oh, 0:00:46.796 --> 0:00:50.596 you wouldn't believe it, Karen, Little Bobby is driving me crazy. 0:00:51.116 --> 0:00:54.036 First of all, it says a lot about my assimilation 0:00:54.116 --> 0:00:57.236 that my child's name was Bobby, despite the fact I'm Indian, 0:00:57.316 --> 0:00:59.756 and you know, Rev, you might have been more appropriate. 0:00:59.836 --> 0:01:02.996 But I don't think there's ever been anything more that 0:01:03.116 --> 0:01:07.836 mattered to me than eventually becoming a parent. I mean, 0:01:07.876 --> 0:01:13.276 it's just it's always been a guiding force. That's me, 0:01:13.556 --> 0:01:16.956 Maya Shunker. As you can probably tell, we're mixing things 0:01:17.076 --> 0:01:20.196 up on today's episode. Instead of coming to you as 0:01:20.196 --> 0:01:24.236 the host Maya Shunker, cognitive scientist, I'm coming to you 0:01:24.516 --> 0:01:28.516 as just me Maya. Recently, I was on my way 0:01:28.556 --> 0:01:31.236 to finally becoming a mom, which had been years in 0:01:31.236 --> 0:01:34.316 the making, when my husband Jimmy, and I learned I 0:01:34.356 --> 0:01:38.996 can't healthily carry a baby. We explored gestational surrogacy, having 0:01:38.996 --> 0:01:43.196 someone else carry our baby. This has involved fertility treatments, 0:01:43.396 --> 0:01:49.396 freezing our embryos, and finding a surrogate match. Things were 0:01:49.476 --> 0:01:53.316 finally coming together these past few months until we were 0:01:53.356 --> 0:01:58.916 thrown our own change of plants. I never intended to 0:01:58.956 --> 0:02:02.596 share such a deeply personal story, but then I realized 0:02:02.636 --> 0:02:05.476 that's kind of what this show is all about. My 0:02:05.596 --> 0:02:09.396 guests come here to process their experiences with change out loud, 0:02:09.756 --> 0:02:12.596 and I realized I wanted to do the same. So 0:02:12.636 --> 0:02:15.796 two days after I got some terrible news, I asked 0:02:15.876 --> 0:02:19.116 my producer and friend, Tyler Green, to turn on the 0:02:19.156 --> 0:02:27.156 mics and interview me. This is a slight change of Plants, 0:02:27.556 --> 0:02:30.236 a show about who we are and who we become 0:02:30.596 --> 0:02:43.636 in the face of a big change. We started our 0:02:43.636 --> 0:02:46.596 conversation by talking about Jimmy and me and our search 0:02:46.676 --> 0:02:50.076 for a surrogate match when we moved out to California. 0:02:50.356 --> 0:02:55.196 That's really when our journey began. And it's very scary, obviously, right. 0:02:55.276 --> 0:02:58.836 I mean, to trust someone so much that you're willing 0:02:58.916 --> 0:03:02.236 to put your child's development and well being in their 0:03:02.236 --> 0:03:08.916 hands is nothing small, you know, So, I mean the 0:03:09.316 --> 0:03:14.876 surrogacy matching process is is so interesting. It feels like 0:03:14.916 --> 0:03:17.716 you're you're dating again, Like you're looking at all these 0:03:18.436 --> 0:03:22.636 profiles of women who can potentially carry your baby, and 0:03:24.116 --> 0:03:26.556 unlike a traditional dating profile, which is like, you know, 0:03:26.596 --> 0:03:30.516 I love playing soccer and making dinners, they're like, you know, 0:03:30.876 --> 0:03:36.196 here's here's my gynecological history, and here's the nature of 0:03:36.236 --> 0:03:38.476 my three births that I had with my own children. 0:03:38.876 --> 0:03:43.396 It feels totally nuts to be learning such intimate details 0:03:43.436 --> 0:03:47.316 about a person's medical history and to be judging compatibility 0:03:47.476 --> 0:03:51.756 based on based on these factors. It's like, hey, how's 0:03:51.756 --> 0:03:54.996 your uterine lining? Does it respond well to fertility treatments? 0:03:55.116 --> 0:03:57.996 You know, Like that's nuts. Usually, as I go about 0:03:57.996 --> 0:04:00.796 the world, I'm focusing on people's personalities and whether I 0:04:00.916 --> 0:04:03.996 like them and whether they like me. And suddenly you're 0:04:03.996 --> 0:04:06.396 in this world where all these bizarre metrics matter more 0:04:06.396 --> 0:04:08.876 than anything else, which is this person's pregnancy history and 0:04:08.876 --> 0:04:11.916 they're ability to conceive. You're like, it's not match dot 0:04:11.916 --> 0:04:14.516 com anymore, but it looks almost the same, there's all. 0:04:15.636 --> 0:04:18.996 But wow, didn't know I needed to know that exactly. 0:04:19.796 --> 0:04:23.956 So we're sifting through all these profiles and we come 0:04:23.956 --> 0:04:33.636 across one her name's Hailey, Sorry, okay, and she just 0:04:33.676 --> 0:04:41.996 looks perfect. She looks perfect. She's smiling in her photo 0:04:42.116 --> 0:04:45.436 with mini mouth ears on her and her head. It's 0:04:45.436 --> 0:04:48.196 a picture with her and her daughter in like Disney World. 0:04:49.756 --> 0:04:55.116 I read her profile. She she's got three beautiful children 0:04:55.116 --> 0:04:58.796 of her own. She's a stay at home mom. She 0:04:59.116 --> 0:05:03.156 is incredibly artistic and creative and builds amazing things in 0:05:03.196 --> 0:05:07.516 her home. And she's also a social activist. And I 0:05:07.556 --> 0:05:09.596 still remember when I looked at her pro file. You know, 0:05:09.676 --> 0:05:11.796 usually you write a paragraph about yourself at the end, 0:05:11.836 --> 0:05:14.396 to just say you know why you're interested in being 0:05:14.516 --> 0:05:18.236 a surrogate and what draws you to it, And you know, 0:05:18.276 --> 0:05:20.996 this is an opportunity for women to say why they 0:05:21.036 --> 0:05:23.276 think they'd be a great surrogate for you. And she said, 0:05:24.316 --> 0:05:27.956 I feel so self conscious talking positively about myself. I've 0:05:27.956 --> 0:05:32.236 asked my sister instead to to share what why she thinks, 0:05:32.516 --> 0:05:36.316 you know, I might make a great surrogate. And it 0:05:36.396 --> 0:05:40.916 was such a beautiful description of Haley, you know, generous 0:05:40.956 --> 0:05:45.516 in such a deep way, so loving, so caring, and 0:05:45.596 --> 0:05:48.036 so loyal. And you know, at the time, I didn't 0:05:48.036 --> 0:05:53.236 know how much that loyalty trait would matter, but it did, 0:05:53.276 --> 0:05:55.196 and so I still remember. It was the middle of 0:05:55.236 --> 0:05:57.676 my work day and I go into a conference room 0:05:57.756 --> 0:06:01.476 and we meet Haley over video, and it was it 0:06:01.556 --> 0:06:03.356 was like love at first sight, you know, that's the 0:06:03.396 --> 0:06:06.836 best way to describe it. I think we all felt 0:06:06.876 --> 0:06:11.236 so bonded to each other. I'd always seen it as 0:06:11.276 --> 0:06:13.996 such a liability, like why can't I carry this baby? 0:06:14.036 --> 0:06:16.916 Why can't I carry this baby? And when I met 0:06:16.956 --> 0:06:22.276 Haleyott for the first time ever, I thought, it's okay 0:06:23.516 --> 0:06:27.356 knowing her and having it be her. We'll make this. 0:06:28.196 --> 0:06:31.716 We'll make this just as good, maybe even better, because 0:06:31.716 --> 0:06:33.436 I had the opportunity to get to know someone like 0:06:33.516 --> 0:06:37.116 her and I had never felt that way before. You know, 0:06:37.196 --> 0:06:39.596 usually after a video call like that, you give both 0:06:39.596 --> 0:06:42.516 sides some time to figure out whether they think it's right. 0:06:42.956 --> 0:06:44.676 I think we just wrote to each other within like 0:06:44.676 --> 0:06:46.716 a minute like we're in the other side, like we're 0:06:46.716 --> 0:06:49.356 in And so we might have been the fastest match 0:06:49.396 --> 0:06:54.876 that ever happened. I love that. So what happens next. 0:06:56.356 --> 0:07:00.116 We plan to do our embryo transfer in February of 0:07:00.316 --> 0:07:05.916 twenty twenty, so she comes out here. And there's also 0:07:06.116 --> 0:07:09.676 there's also this like grading system with every they look 0:07:09.676 --> 0:07:11.956 at the embryos under a microscope, and so it's like, oh, 0:07:12.036 --> 0:07:13.916 this one's a six double A and this one's a 0:07:13.916 --> 0:07:17.516 two D D And you're like, is this predictive of anything? 0:07:17.636 --> 0:07:20.036 Like I'm walking down the street being like, is that 0:07:20.116 --> 0:07:24.756 person is six double A? Like, what's Obama? Six? Triple A? 0:07:24.916 --> 0:07:28.196 For sure? Probably a seven? Just a seven? What's Beyonce? 0:07:28.436 --> 0:07:31.476 I need to know what Beyonce is? Like if Beyonce 0:07:31.716 --> 0:07:34.636 was a like three CB or like a two D D, 0:07:34.916 --> 0:07:38.716 that gives hope to embryos everywhere. Okay, So anyway, we 0:07:38.716 --> 0:07:41.836 were we chose our best looking embryo, and they were 0:07:41.836 --> 0:07:43.956 all genetically tested, so we had you know, we knew 0:07:43.956 --> 0:07:47.036 that they were chromosomally normal. So we choose choose our 0:07:47.076 --> 0:07:51.796 best one. And I remember sitting the ultrasound room that 0:07:51.876 --> 0:07:56.596 day because you know, Kaylee was She's so inclusive throughout 0:07:56.596 --> 0:07:58.596 the process. You know, I was like, do you prefer 0:07:58.636 --> 0:08:00.236 we're out of the room in the room, like at 0:08:00.236 --> 0:08:02.516 the end of the day, this is her body, And 0:08:02.556 --> 0:08:04.516 she said, I can't imagine not having you guys in 0:08:04.556 --> 0:08:06.796 the room. So we're in the room, the lights go 0:08:06.876 --> 0:08:13.076 off and I see them take our little girl embryo 0:08:13.396 --> 0:08:20.316 and implant her. And I was overwhelmed by emotion and like, 0:08:20.356 --> 0:08:22.156 I didn't even I don't think of myself as that 0:08:22.236 --> 0:08:25.036 kind of person, like Jimmy's the one who cries at 0:08:25.036 --> 0:08:29.516 Disney movies up Mulan the Lion King. Like I might 0:08:29.556 --> 0:08:32.196 get a little, you know, teary eyed. But I was 0:08:32.236 --> 0:08:35.556 so surprised, and I think it was we can cry 0:08:35.596 --> 0:08:38.436 for lots of reasons, but I think it was it 0:08:38.476 --> 0:08:40.796 was a combination of so many factors. I think one 0:08:40.956 --> 0:08:45.356 was profound relief that this moment was finally happening. You know, 0:08:45.436 --> 0:08:49.196 it had been years in the making. To just see 0:08:49.196 --> 0:08:52.636 it happening finally with like a real human Haley sitting 0:08:52.636 --> 0:08:56.516 there like that was overwhelming for me. And then I 0:08:56.516 --> 0:08:58.556 also just visualized her. I was like, oh, well, she 0:08:58.676 --> 0:09:00.996 have thick, curly hair like me. You know, you just 0:09:01.036 --> 0:09:03.396 have these images. I just imagined her with like you know, 0:09:03.436 --> 0:09:06.396 I kind of had just a bunch of curls shooting 0:09:06.396 --> 0:09:08.516 off my head when I was a kid, and they 0:09:08.516 --> 0:09:11.476 had there was no orders, just randomness, um everywhere. Ilse 0:09:11.516 --> 0:09:13.436 like I wonder if she'll have my you know, Shirley 0:09:13.476 --> 0:09:17.636 Temple spiral curls um, but with like an ethnic twist, 0:09:17.676 --> 0:09:19.876 because they're you know, kind of it's I have textured hair. 0:09:19.916 --> 0:09:26.316 I will send them to you, um and so. And 0:09:26.356 --> 0:09:30.716 I just remember holding Jimmy's hands so tightly, and um, 0:09:30.756 --> 0:09:33.076 it was a beautiful moment. And you know, we left, 0:09:33.116 --> 0:09:36.916 and obviously we have nerves and whatnot. And you know, 0:09:36.956 --> 0:09:39.436 the way that it works, you're supposed to wait until 0:09:39.476 --> 0:09:41.956 ten days after to do the formal blood work, but 0:09:42.116 --> 0:09:44.756 Haley wasn't going to wait, so she was going to 0:09:44.796 --> 0:09:48.676 the store buying pregnancy tests. She proceeds to send us 0:09:48.676 --> 0:09:51.316 images of all the pregnancy tests she's been taking over 0:09:51.356 --> 0:09:54.396 the preceding days, of the line darkening and darkening and darkening, 0:09:55.276 --> 0:09:58.756 and it's very positive. And she gets her blood test 0:09:58.836 --> 0:10:04.316 done and we're having a baby girl, you know. And 0:10:04.396 --> 0:10:08.956 so we're over the moon and we sign in by 0:10:09.236 --> 0:10:13.156 video to that first ultrasound and we see her little 0:10:13.156 --> 0:10:16.396 heart beating, and in the same way that Haley was 0:10:16.436 --> 0:10:19.676 perfect to us, that little embryo seemed freaking perfect to 0:10:19.756 --> 0:10:22.996 us too, so cute and like the nurse said to 0:10:23.196 --> 0:10:27.036 Haley and us, your little gals measuring perfectly. Her heart's 0:10:27.036 --> 0:10:32.436 beating at a perfect rate. We're good, and so yeah, 0:10:32.436 --> 0:10:35.556 we felt so relieved, you know, and we go home 0:10:35.676 --> 0:10:40.436 and it's so funny how these surrogacy pregnancies work. You know, 0:10:40.436 --> 0:10:41.956 you want to be able to control things, so you 0:10:42.316 --> 0:10:45.076 end up focusing on really small things like is her 0:10:45.116 --> 0:10:48.636 a multi vitamin? Like the best version of the multi vitamin? 0:10:48.836 --> 0:10:51.836 You know, Like how much folic acid is she getting? 0:10:51.916 --> 0:10:53.956 You know, like you just start asking yourself all these 0:10:53.996 --> 0:10:58.316 really small things. It's a it's like that Iceberg analogy. 0:10:58.556 --> 0:11:00.196 You just see the tips. You focus on all those 0:11:00.236 --> 0:11:02.036 things that you think are in your control, but underneath 0:11:02.036 --> 0:11:05.516 the surface, there's a ton of stuff that's totally not 0:11:06.116 --> 0:11:07.836 present to you, and it's totally out of your control. 0:11:08.396 --> 0:11:11.036 And it's about thirty at night, and all of a sudden, 0:11:11.076 --> 0:11:14.076 we get a text from Haley and she says, are 0:11:14.076 --> 0:11:18.836 you guys up? And we immediately know something's wrong, because, like, 0:11:19.076 --> 0:11:22.476 why is she texting us at eleven thirty her time? 0:11:22.556 --> 0:11:25.556 Asking you for up? We call her and she says, 0:11:27.236 --> 0:11:30.556 I just started bleeding profusely and I think I'm maybe 0:11:30.956 --> 0:11:35.196 miscarrying and I'm not sure what's happening. And my heart 0:11:35.276 --> 0:11:37.716 just sank and I was like, oh my god, how 0:11:37.796 --> 0:11:39.956 is this possible. We just saw the baby a few 0:11:39.956 --> 0:11:43.876 hours ago on the ultrasound, you know, looking super healthy 0:11:43.876 --> 0:11:47.196 and happy, and Haley was healthy and happy. Like it 0:11:47.316 --> 0:11:49.636 just felt like a tragedy, you know, And to go 0:11:49.716 --> 0:11:51.916 from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows 0:11:51.916 --> 0:11:56.796 within a six hour period, it just felt cruel. Sure enough, 0:11:56.796 --> 0:11:59.076 she goes in the next morning for an ultrasound and 0:12:01.116 --> 0:12:05.676 there's nothing there, you know, like there was something there 0:12:05.716 --> 0:12:08.476 the day before, but there's nothing there today. That's what 0:12:08.556 --> 0:12:13.836 they told us. So she had miscarried. And I will 0:12:13.876 --> 0:12:17.836 tell you, the hardest part about a surrogacy journey is 0:12:17.836 --> 0:12:23.916 that there's a third person grieving along with you. And 0:12:23.996 --> 0:12:27.116 that's so excruciating. It's like, Jimmy and I felt like 0:12:27.156 --> 0:12:30.876 we could manage our own pain, but to see someone 0:12:30.956 --> 0:12:35.036 who who was so loving and only wanted to bring 0:12:35.116 --> 0:12:38.756 us joy suffering and in pain and going through the 0:12:38.796 --> 0:12:42.556 physical trauma of a miscarriage, like bleeding throughout the entire 0:12:42.676 --> 0:12:46.556 night and horrible cramping and feeling nauseated and dizzy and 0:12:46.596 --> 0:12:50.956 all the things. Like, it's so horrible. It's so horrible 0:12:50.956 --> 0:12:52.796 to have a third person. And you know, in our 0:12:52.796 --> 0:12:57.836 minds we're thinking, because guilt is an inevitable feeling all 0:12:58.116 --> 0:13:01.236 on all sides. We're thinking to ourselves like we're the 0:13:01.276 --> 0:13:04.116 reason Haley had her first miscarriage, you know, That's what 0:13:04.116 --> 0:13:08.236 we're thinking. And Haley's probably thinking, oh, why did this happen? 0:13:08.516 --> 0:13:11.236 Like why why couldn't I make this work? And we're 0:13:11.276 --> 0:13:14.876 all having these irrational thoughts that are not rooted in 0:13:15.956 --> 0:13:18.596 real things, because you just want to find an explanation, 0:13:18.876 --> 0:13:22.476 you know, you want to you want to blame someone, 0:13:22.716 --> 0:13:25.836 and the easiest person to blame is yourself or who 0:13:25.836 --> 0:13:27.836 else abody to blame the universe, like I don't, I don't, 0:13:27.876 --> 0:13:32.076 you know, So I just wanted to blame myself for everything. 0:13:32.716 --> 0:13:36.196 And so so that happens. And the reason why I 0:13:36.276 --> 0:13:39.396 was so painful, Tyler, is that it happened the day 0:13:39.396 --> 0:13:43.556 before we all entered quarantine in California, so we couldn't 0:13:43.596 --> 0:13:47.356 even grieve with our close friends and family, like the 0:13:47.516 --> 0:13:50.396 very small circle of people we had told about this pregnancy. 0:13:51.876 --> 0:13:55.036 And at this point were you were you thinking? I'm 0:13:55.076 --> 0:13:57.676 sure you had actually many thoughts at this point, like 0:13:58.276 --> 0:14:01.876 should we work together with Haley again or somebody else? 0:14:02.836 --> 0:14:06.716 It's a great question. We so desperately wanted to work 0:14:06.716 --> 0:14:10.116 with Haley, and we were hoping doctors would tell us 0:14:10.116 --> 0:14:12.636 that we could, that it would make sense too. Unfortunately, 0:14:13.156 --> 0:14:16.116 you know, they said, we have no reason to believe 0:14:16.716 --> 0:14:19.516 anything really about this situation, like there's a lot of 0:14:19.556 --> 0:14:22.956 miscarriages at six weeks, and we were really concerned at 0:14:22.956 --> 0:14:24.956 the time, like, well, Haley be down for this. She 0:14:25.076 --> 0:14:29.076 just went through a traumatic experience and one that she 0:14:29.156 --> 0:14:32.236 did not you know, you can sign up for this, 0:14:32.316 --> 0:14:34.276 but like, do you really know what that's going to be, like, 0:14:34.436 --> 0:14:37.636 you know, And so one thing that really touched our 0:14:37.676 --> 0:14:40.196 hearts is when she said, I'm in this with you 0:14:40.276 --> 0:14:45.076 until the end. I will do this until you become parents. 0:14:46.196 --> 0:14:48.756 And just to catch us up on the timeline, so 0:14:48.916 --> 0:14:53.276 this is again March of twenty twenty exactly, and then 0:14:53.316 --> 0:14:56.236 at some point you make a decision to try again 0:14:56.356 --> 0:14:59.516 or you're able to try again. Yeah, so we all 0:14:59.516 --> 0:15:04.476 get vaccinated, but we try again, and so she comes 0:15:04.476 --> 0:15:06.756 out here and we go through the whole process again. 0:15:07.716 --> 0:15:13.076 So this is u August of twenty twenty one. So 0:15:13.236 --> 0:15:15.636 August twenty twenty one, Haley flies out here and we 0:15:15.716 --> 0:15:18.836 just had a wonderful time because it was in some 0:15:18.876 --> 0:15:20.916 ways it was as though no time has passed, right 0:15:20.916 --> 0:15:22.516 because we felt so close to her. But in other 0:15:22.556 --> 0:15:24.436 ways it was as though so much time had passed, 0:15:24.476 --> 0:15:27.156 because you could see changes in the depth of our 0:15:27.196 --> 0:15:31.276 conversation and just how comfortable we felt with each other. 0:15:32.676 --> 0:15:35.796 And so we go into the room and I can 0:15:35.836 --> 0:15:39.276 already feel some of the light you know, PTSDE feelings 0:15:39.356 --> 0:15:42.556 kicking in because this time when we're doing the ultrasound, 0:15:42.676 --> 0:15:45.236 I don't cry to do the transfer. I mean, you know, 0:15:45.316 --> 0:15:49.676 the embryo transfer. I'm just I'm holding my breath more 0:15:49.796 --> 0:15:51.836 than I did the first time. Like I feel a 0:15:51.876 --> 0:15:55.956 little anxious, you know, and you know, everyone's like, just 0:15:55.996 --> 0:15:58.676 stay positive, stay positive, stay positive. So I so we 0:15:58.756 --> 0:16:03.476 stayed positive, and within two weeks we got those darkening 0:16:03.516 --> 0:16:07.636 line pregnancy tests. I told her that, you know, her, 0:16:07.796 --> 0:16:09.916 her hormone levels were super or high this time. So 0:16:09.956 --> 0:16:12.756 I was like, Haley, you're pregnant AF. So that was 0:16:12.756 --> 0:16:15.916 our that was our WhatsApp group names, Haley's pregnant AF. 0:16:19.676 --> 0:16:22.036 We'll be right back to the slight change of plants. 0:16:33.276 --> 0:16:35.756 When Jimmy and I found out that Haley was pregnant again, 0:16:36.076 --> 0:16:39.436 we were ecstatic. We had transferred one embryo, and we 0:16:39.516 --> 0:16:42.836 felt so fortunate it had worked. Jimmy and I would 0:16:42.876 --> 0:16:45.836 go for long walks together and start imagining what life 0:16:45.836 --> 0:16:52.236 would be like with our little Chinese Indian baby, and 0:16:52.316 --> 0:16:54.916 we named her like Corina, that's going to be our name. 0:16:54.956 --> 0:17:01.116 So as pregnant af with Karna shunker Lee and she's pregnant, 0:17:01.236 --> 0:17:06.396 and like clockwork, on exactly the same day, Haley gets 0:17:06.396 --> 0:17:10.076 morning sickness as she did the first pregnancy. Everything's going 0:17:10.116 --> 0:17:16.236 super well, her levels are looking super strong, and I 0:17:16.396 --> 0:17:18.956 just start I just start feeling anxious as the six 0:17:18.996 --> 0:17:22.836 week mark approaches, because it feels very irrational. I'm like, 0:17:22.876 --> 0:17:24.836 there's no reason at all to believe that if there's 0:17:24.836 --> 0:17:27.396 a miscarriage, it would happen, you know, at the six 0:17:27.436 --> 0:17:29.516 week mark, right like it could happen at seven and 0:17:29.556 --> 0:17:32.556 a half weeks, it could happen at you know, twenty weeks. 0:17:32.596 --> 0:17:35.396 You just don't know in this process. So I felt 0:17:35.396 --> 0:17:38.196 like I was getting irrationally anxious. So I kept trying 0:17:38.196 --> 0:17:40.156 to talk myself off, to talk myself off the ledge 0:17:40.196 --> 0:17:41.956 and be like, there's no reason to believe this would happen. 0:17:44.436 --> 0:17:47.836 I'd said of an email address for Karina, and I'd 0:17:47.876 --> 0:17:50.196 been sending her emails along the way about the pregnancy, 0:17:50.196 --> 0:17:53.196 about Haley. It's like, hey, you know, hey little Karina, 0:17:53.476 --> 0:17:56.476 it's mom. You know, here's an update. And I remember 0:17:56.476 --> 0:17:58.876 I wrote to her the night before. I said, hey, um, 0:18:00.156 --> 0:18:04.516 tomorrow is a really big milestone for us, because if 0:18:04.516 --> 0:18:07.116 we get through it, like it's it's one day more, 0:18:07.556 --> 0:18:09.076 you know that next day, it's a one day more 0:18:09.236 --> 0:18:11.476 than the last pregnancy, and I just feel like I'll 0:18:11.476 --> 0:18:18.956 feel some relief. It's Tuesday morning. I wake up and 0:18:19.076 --> 0:18:20.916 I have relief because I look at my phone and 0:18:20.956 --> 0:18:23.916 I'm like, there's no message from her saying that she 0:18:24.036 --> 0:18:28.636 bled overnight. And then she texts us saying, you know, 0:18:28.756 --> 0:18:30.556 I was a little scared this morning because I woke 0:18:30.636 --> 0:18:34.196 up not feeling morning sickness. She had had other days 0:18:34.236 --> 0:18:38.796 like that, so it wasn't immediately alarming. And then at 0:18:38.796 --> 0:18:41.316 ten thirty am, I get a message from her and 0:18:41.356 --> 0:18:45.396 she says I just had a gush of blood and 0:18:45.476 --> 0:18:48.036 my heart sank. I was like, you have got to 0:18:48.076 --> 0:18:51.916 be kidding me, How is this happening again, like on 0:18:52.076 --> 0:18:54.476 exactly the same day as last time, Like it just 0:18:55.036 --> 0:18:57.516 it didn't make any sense, and so we called the 0:18:57.596 --> 0:19:01.516 doctor and they they're like, Okay, it could be a miscarriage. However, 0:19:01.596 --> 0:19:03.756 it could be another thing. It could be a hematoma. Right, 0:19:03.916 --> 0:19:06.076 it could be that there's some blood pooling in that 0:19:06.156 --> 0:19:08.636 area and it just needs to get out. Why don't 0:19:08.676 --> 0:19:11.516 we have her go get an ultrasound. And so, even 0:19:11.516 --> 0:19:14.516 though she's like actively bleeding, she goes to get this ultrasound, 0:19:14.756 --> 0:19:20.236 and we're expecting the worst. I mean, I'm an optimist, 0:19:20.316 --> 0:19:24.276 so of course, until you tell me like, no, there's 0:19:24.276 --> 0:19:26.036 nothing there, I'm always going to hope. I'm always going 0:19:26.076 --> 0:19:27.916 to hold on to that shred. I think Jimmy at 0:19:27.956 --> 0:19:29.796 this point had just given up. He was like, Maya, 0:19:30.076 --> 0:19:34.916 all hope is lost. And this incredibly kind doctor is 0:19:34.916 --> 0:19:38.476 on the call and he's doing the ultrasound. He's like, 0:19:38.996 --> 0:19:42.316 there's your baby, and her heart beats perfect one hundred 0:19:42.316 --> 0:19:45.876 and sixty. She's measuring exactly as she should at six weeks, 0:19:46.836 --> 0:19:49.876 and oh, my gother is that hematoma? Like there is 0:19:49.916 --> 0:19:53.396 this blood pool and so that does explain the bleeding. Like, 0:19:53.436 --> 0:19:57.356 you guys are good, And I was just sobbing, like 0:19:57.396 --> 0:20:01.156 the relief that I felt. Oh my gosh, there's an explanation, 0:20:01.756 --> 0:20:04.436 and our baby is looking great and we're going to 0:20:04.516 --> 0:20:07.636 have this child. And then he goes over the area 0:20:07.716 --> 0:20:11.196 again and he goes, oh my god, there's another one. 0:20:12.316 --> 0:20:17.236 You guys are having twins, and that one's also perfect. 0:20:18.396 --> 0:20:21.436 That one has a beautiful heartbeat and is measuring great. 0:20:23.236 --> 0:20:27.436 You guys are having twins. And Haley was so happy. 0:20:27.516 --> 0:20:30.476 And I remember in that moment I said to her, 0:20:30.516 --> 0:20:33.796 I said, look, I'm grateful for one or two. I don't. 0:20:34.076 --> 0:20:36.676 I don't. I didn't need to. I just just wanted one, 0:20:36.956 --> 0:20:39.476 you know. But what matters to me most is that 0:20:39.516 --> 0:20:42.356 it's with you. That's what I just kept saying. I 0:20:42.436 --> 0:20:44.076 was like, I wanted this to be with Haley. I 0:20:44.116 --> 0:20:45.756 wanted this to be with Haley, and it's with you, 0:20:45.796 --> 0:20:49.516 and we get to do this journey with you. And 0:20:50.156 --> 0:20:51.676 Jimmy and I take a walk. At this point of 0:20:51.716 --> 0:20:53.396 the day, we're like, let's just get some fresh air. 0:20:53.436 --> 0:20:56.596 And now we're planning our life with twins. We're thinking 0:20:56.636 --> 0:20:58.596 to ourselves, we need to buy a home. There should 0:20:58.636 --> 0:21:01.996 be like many bedrooms, and how are we going to 0:21:02.156 --> 0:21:04.476 care for twins? And we start thinking about a second, 0:21:04.516 --> 0:21:05.996 you know, Haley and said, I guess it's time to 0:21:05.996 --> 0:21:08.036 start thinking of another names. So we're like, what goes 0:21:08.076 --> 0:21:11.436 well with Karina? And we to start brainstorming, and we 0:21:11.476 --> 0:21:13.796 have this walk and it's just like we're floating on air, 0:21:14.036 --> 0:21:16.876 you know it. We can't wait to tell the people 0:21:16.876 --> 0:21:19.236 who we've told that she's miscarried too, that it's actually 0:21:19.236 --> 0:21:21.476 the opposite. And you're not even just getting one. We're 0:21:21.516 --> 0:21:28.236 getting too. So I go back home and I text 0:21:28.276 --> 0:21:31.116 Hailey and I say, you know, I deleted the what 0:21:31.196 --> 0:21:33.636 to Expect AFT on my phone this morning when I 0:21:33.676 --> 0:21:35.556 got the news about the blood because I didn't want 0:21:35.556 --> 0:21:36.876 to get my hopes up and I just wanted it. 0:21:37.796 --> 0:21:39.836 I wanted to remove all evidence of that of my phone, 0:21:39.876 --> 0:21:43.516 and I said maybe I should reinstall it. And her 0:21:43.516 --> 0:21:51.436 response was, guys, the thing that I've been bleeding out recently, 0:21:51.596 --> 0:21:58.956 Like it's it's not blood. And she takes a picture 0:21:58.996 --> 0:22:01.996 of it and we send it to our doctor and 0:22:02.036 --> 0:22:04.956 our doctor calls us or like could this be anything? 0:22:04.996 --> 0:22:10.076 Could this be? Like? What is this? You know? Jimmy 0:22:10.156 --> 0:22:13.276 studied biology in college. He's like, my May that's his 0:22:13.356 --> 0:22:14.876 nickname for me. He's like, my, this is not a 0:22:14.876 --> 0:22:18.756 blood clot. I'm so sorry, and when the doctor looked 0:22:18.756 --> 0:22:20.956 at it, I just remember I heard I heard the 0:22:21.036 --> 0:22:23.716 sound in her voice. She's like, you know you could 0:22:23.716 --> 0:22:25.836 hear it, like I knew the answer before she said it. 0:22:25.876 --> 0:22:28.476 She goes, I'm just so sorry, guys. I can't believe 0:22:28.476 --> 0:22:37.396 this has happened. And it's hard to describe what that 0:22:37.436 --> 0:22:40.516 feels like. I wanted to throw up. I felt totally 0:22:41.036 --> 0:22:48.796 nauseated and disoriented. I felt so sad that Haley was suffering. 0:22:48.836 --> 0:22:51.356 I felt so sad she was going through this trauma again. 0:22:54.596 --> 0:22:57.116 And it was confirmed by ultrasound that there was nothing 0:22:57.876 --> 0:23:03.836 there anymore the next morning. And the hardest part of 0:23:03.836 --> 0:23:08.516 this process was learning that our embryos were actually great, 0:23:08.796 --> 0:23:13.276 and Ally was great, but very likely there's some sort 0:23:13.316 --> 0:23:18.996 of incompatibility between our biologies. The doctor's best guest right 0:23:19.036 --> 0:23:22.876 now is that her immune system sees our embryos as 0:23:22.916 --> 0:23:26.596 foreign in some way. I asked my doctor, I said, 0:23:26.996 --> 0:23:29.076 have you ever seen this before? And she said no, 0:23:29.156 --> 0:23:34.476 and I think there's a bizarre immune response happening here. 0:23:35.516 --> 0:23:37.756 And what that meant is we can't work with her anymore. 0:23:39.356 --> 0:23:41.116 She said to me this morning, she goes, it is 0:23:41.116 --> 0:23:44.596 so cruel that a relationship that is so compatible is 0:23:44.636 --> 0:23:50.116 biologically incompatible and you just can't fight biology. What are 0:23:50.116 --> 0:23:52.436 you going to do? You know, the doctors are like, 0:23:53.516 --> 0:23:55.796 this would probably happen again, and we can't put you 0:23:55.836 --> 0:23:57.876 guys through that. You can't put yourself through that. You 0:23:57.956 --> 0:24:02.276 just have to find another surrogate. And what's again astonishing 0:24:02.316 --> 0:24:04.796 to us is like Haley was willing to try again 0:24:05.156 --> 0:24:07.596 with us and again and again, because that's the kind 0:24:07.596 --> 0:24:11.276 of person she is. And I'm just overwhelmed still that 0:24:11.476 --> 0:24:16.636 someone would go through this, go through this pain because 0:24:16.676 --> 0:24:21.236 she's so eager to make us happy. It's an incredible gift. 0:24:21.276 --> 0:24:24.436 I've never met anybody like her in my life. I 0:24:24.556 --> 0:24:28.676 probably never will. Yeah, so I'm hearing you tell this story. 0:24:28.716 --> 0:24:32.796 I just want to acknowledge that it is incredibly harrowing 0:24:33.236 --> 0:24:37.356 and what you've gone through over the last few days 0:24:37.396 --> 0:24:46.956 is horrible, and yeah, I am so sorry. Thank you. 0:24:46.956 --> 0:24:52.316 You know, I'm also struck by the fact that you 0:24:52.596 --> 0:24:58.076