1 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok a F Daily 2 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: with me your Girl, Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. 3 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: Happy Valentine's Day, Dear friends, m Valentine's Day, let me 4 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: be honest with you, is not a hallmark holiday that 5 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: I have ever really celebrated, even when I was married, 6 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: when I'm single, because one, I think it's a capitalistic 7 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: ploy but two, I think that the idea that we're 8 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: only supposed to spend one day dedicated to those loving 9 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: relationships that we have is just foolish. And so I 10 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: say all that to say that what woke AF is 11 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: and what I'm hoping woke F becomes and expands into, 12 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: is a conversation about how we live more consciously, how 13 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: we love more consciously, both ourselves and in the relationships 14 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: that we have with the people around us, whether they 15 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: be platonic or intimate relationships or romantically intimate relationships. Because, 16 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: as you will see in my conversation with our returning 17 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: guest and friend, doctor Jen M. Jackson, who is the 18 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 1: co host of the podcast of That Black Couple and 19 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: a writer and abolitionist and a columnist with That Teen Vogue, 20 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 1: we will discuss that all relationships are intimate, and that 21 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,200 Speaker 1: we really need to understand our relationship to attachment right 22 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: and our relationship to ourselves. If we are to have healthy, happy, 23 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: whole relationships, they only start from being healthy, happy and 24 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: whole with ourselves. So we get in to really great, 25 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: juicy conversation about love, what it means to love in 26 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: the midst of a pandemic, what it means to have 27 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: different relationship styles exist within one or multiple relationships, and 28 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: how we navigate our truth and how we come to 29 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,440 Speaker 1: the table with that truth. So I hope, folks, that 30 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: you will take this entire episode as a woke moment 31 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: of wellness, as a check in right with yourself. We 32 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,960 Speaker 1: will talk about that as well. Are we checking in? 33 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 1: Are we interrogating our feelings? Are we checking in with 34 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,080 Speaker 1: the partners that we have the relationships that we have 35 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: on a regular basis. Right relationships, regardless of again how 36 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:53,320 Speaker 1: they stand in your life, require regular check in, regular conversation. 37 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: We're not the same person that we were at the beginning, 38 00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: the middle, or at the end, and so it's important 39 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: to have those moments of solo reflection and group reflection 40 00:03:06,520 --> 00:03:09,399 Speaker 1: so that we're creating the type of dynamic that allows 41 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: us to be our most authentic, true, and vulnerable selves. 42 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 1: So I hope, dear friends, on this Valentine's Day, that 43 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: you can get into and enjoy the conversation with our friend, 44 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: doctor Jen M. Jackson. Folks, I am very happy to 45 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: welcome back to woke a f which doctor Jen Jackson. 46 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: I think that this is your third time. Oh, I'm 47 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: so excited. Third time is a charm our, friend, abolitionist, writer, 48 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: columnists at teen Vogue, and the co host of That 49 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: Black That Black Couple podcast. Folks, doctor at Jen M. Jackson, 50 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: thank you for making time to join us on this day, 51 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: which is Valentine's Day, right where people have a lot 52 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: of people have a complicated relationship to this very much 53 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: manufactured Hallmark holiday that tells us that this is the 54 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: day for love. So apparently the other three hundred and 55 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: sixty four days. I guess we don't have to really care. 56 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: Nobody's expecting cards, candy or date nights. But I think 57 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: that it's important for us, particularly in this time, still 58 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 1: living in this global health pandemic, still living in this 59 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 1: time of I don't know, racial reckoning, white supremacists on crack. 60 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: I have no idea but to marinate on love, on 61 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: something different for a change, And so I want to 62 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: open up our conversation today with you know, what are 63 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:55,359 Speaker 1: some of the challenges I guess that you have seen 64 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: over the last two years, right of cohabitating? Uh, you 65 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: know everyone, well not everyone, those of us that are 66 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: privileged enough to work from home are working from home, UM, 67 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 1: cohabitating and trying to keep our sanity but keep our 68 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: love relationships intact. What has what have you seen? What 69 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: have you heard? UM as you navigate this this crazy 70 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: space that we're in. Yeah, I mean it's really excuse me, 71 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: it's really complex, right. I think that UM, at the 72 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:36,679 Speaker 1: beginning of the pandemic, toward the kind of in twenty 73 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: we saw a lot of news stories and a lot 74 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: of accounts from people who were saying that they felt 75 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: really strained because they were forced to cohabitate. So there 76 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,159 Speaker 1: was this narrative around UM being stuck in the house 77 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: with one's partner UM, and a lot of relationships started 78 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: to end in that moment where people were like, oh, wait, 79 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: this is not a person I actually can see myself 80 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: with UM long term. And frankly, I've actually seen a 81 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: lot more of that, right, I've seen a lot of 82 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: people who have not felt like you know, they have 83 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: they chose the right person. And I think that's actually 84 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,159 Speaker 1: this is going to sound really bad, and I feel 85 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: bad already, but I think it's actually a good thing. 86 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because yeah, I think people are choosing themselves, right. 87 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: I think that the I think that the pandemic and 88 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,280 Speaker 1: being in quarantine and being isolated in certain ways has 89 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: forced us to kind of sit with ourselves and to 90 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: reflect on what we need as individuals so that we 91 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: can make more thoughtful and intentional decisions about how we 92 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: want a couple and if we want a couple. I've 93 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 1: had a lot of friends of mine, a lot of 94 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: folks I interact with in the poly community, who are saying, 95 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: you know, I think I'm done right now with dating. 96 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to do anything serious at all right 97 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: now because I'm so focused on my own health and 98 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: my own healing, my own work. So, you know, I 99 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: think that love in this in this moment in particular, 100 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: is very very dynamic. Rights It's there's there's romantic love, 101 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: there's platonic love, and then there's this inner self actualization 102 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: self love that's happening that I'm really happy about as 103 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: a person who I think last time I was on 104 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: your show, I was with a partner who I'm not 105 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: even with anymore, yes, right, yeah, yeah, And that relationship 106 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: crashed and burned, and I'm fine with that, Like I 107 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 1: learned from it. Um, I went through a whole process 108 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: of healing with that, and I'm in a new relationship 109 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: right And I think that, Um, you know what I 110 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: think people are taking from this momentum for those of 111 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: us who've been in long term relationships who have stayed 112 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: with the same partner through all all this, and those 113 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: of us who have entered and exited and entered and exited, 114 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: and some people who are agnostic about all of it, 115 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 1: I think what the general know you is is that 116 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: you know, we have choices, and um, we are not 117 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: hampered by the conditions of the world. We don't have 118 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: to be in a relationship, we don't have to be coupling, 119 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: we don't have to be dating. And so everyone I 120 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: think that is thinking about this right now. People are 121 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly thinking about doing this whole love thing on their 122 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: own terms. And I like that. I'm really excited about 123 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: what this looks like going forward so that people don't 124 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: feel like they're obligated to show up, you know, and 125 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: do the whole chocolates and flowers and this kind of date. 126 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: And you know, like people are showing up on their 127 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: own terms. And I think that's a good thing, you know. 128 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: I love. I mean, there's so many things that you 129 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: just said, so i'll you know, we'll unpack some of them, 130 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 1: one of it being that love is very dynamic now 131 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: and and I really love that, right. I like that 132 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: love is not something that happens to you. It is 133 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: something that requires And I've been saying this a bit 134 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: on Woke a F two similarly around joy, which is 135 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,319 Speaker 1: that there needs to be an intentionality around it. Right. Um. 136 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: You know, Hollywood and society has fed us a either 137 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: one size fits all model, right, which is which is out, 138 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: which is you know, very heteronormative, um, very very monogamous, 139 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: right in terms of there's one person out there for 140 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: you know, for you, and if you don't find that 141 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: person by the time that you're thirty, you're some type 142 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: of failure, right, And that the goal is for everybody 143 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: to walk down an aisle and exchange your ring. Um, 144 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: And that there is a son, can we Yeah, let's 145 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: dig into the to the the fact that love is dynamic, 146 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: that there isn't just one prescribed way to love. And 147 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: I think, you know, we had so many jen the 148 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 1: last time that you were on, We had so many 149 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: comments and questions from from listeners about you know, and 150 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: and I was surprised because I thought that maybe there 151 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,959 Speaker 1: would be like a lot of judgment, and there was none. 152 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: It was more so questions about well, how does this work? 153 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: And more and and and in the way. Even my 154 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: own dad, who listens to the show, My dad was 155 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: just like, so, how does this work? Like, you know, 156 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: I get it. I get why two women want to 157 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: be Obviously his daughter is a lesbian, so he's like, 158 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: I get why two women want to be together, But like, 159 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: why all the other people, you know, isn't she aren't 160 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,839 Speaker 1: they tired? Like that was my That was literally my dad. 161 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: So talk to us about about about love being uh, 162 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: dynamic and not and not static. Yeah, you know that's 163 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: always people are so explaining to me how does it work? 164 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: That's always the question. So I never I'm never upset 165 00:10:55,880 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: when that's the question, Um, you know, my tired. Yes, 166 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: I'm exhausted. But it's not because my relationshous you know, 167 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: Here's how I explain it is that you know, I'm 168 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: a polyamorous person, and I've always been a polyamorous person. 169 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: I've never been a monogamous because I've never understood monogamy. 170 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: So you know, I think because you know, I first 171 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:24,679 Speaker 1: fell in love with a girl when I was eight 172 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: years old, and she was my best friend, and all 173 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: I knew was that I wanted to go over her 174 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: house and like do crafts with her and hug her 175 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: all the time and kiss her on the cheek. And 176 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, to me, that was the most innocent and 177 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: most clear form of my expression of love for this 178 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: person that I had I had experienced at that point, 179 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 1: and so as I grew up, for me, these demarcations 180 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: between like platonic love and romantic love, they weren't there 181 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: because I felt romantic feelings at times. I felt platonic 182 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 1: feelings at times for people. I was sometimes attracted to 183 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: people and other times not. And for me, that was 184 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: my body telling me, you know, what I wanted for 185 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: myself and how I wanted to relate to others. And 186 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,599 Speaker 1: I was lucky in that even though my mother was 187 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: always very traditional. She was just very heteronormative, very Christian. 188 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 1: She never enforced those types of boundaries on me and 189 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: how I moved through the world. I think she always 190 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: kind of knew. She was like, I think you're queer, 191 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,160 Speaker 1: so I'm just gonna let you figure that out, right, 192 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: Like she did what she could with what she had, 193 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: But when it came to how I moved through the world, 194 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: she would always tell me, you know, you're just very 195 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: different from me, and I don't ever want to try 196 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: and shape you, know how you make choices for yourself. 197 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: But I'm here if you have questions, you know. And 198 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: when we think about love being dynamic, what I say 199 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: about this is that we love all the time, right. 200 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: We love of people. We love children, niece's nephews, we 201 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: love best friends, we love our coworkers. You know. We 202 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: fall in love with people all the time. We'll meet 203 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,079 Speaker 1: someone and they'll be an amazing singer or a fantastic painter, 204 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: and we're like, oh my gosh, and we feel this 205 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: deep connection and we're like, oh my gosh, I love 206 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: this person. Right, And for me, I embrace those feelings 207 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 1: as directive, right, I say, oh, it's okay for me 208 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: to love this person and if I feel romantic feelings 209 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: for them, that's okay. It's monogamy culture that teaches us 210 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: to feel bad about that, like we can only reserve 211 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 1: those special feelings for one person, and typically like one 212 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: person is someone who's a different gender from us and 213 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: that we want to have babies with and go on 214 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: the relationship escalator and blah blah blah blah blah. So 215 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: for me, you know, being a black feminist and being 216 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,839 Speaker 1: an abolitionist, I don't care about it any of that, right, 217 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, you know, I don't understand how I can 218 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: espouse a liberation is politic and create these encapsulations and 219 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: these barriers for myself in my own personal life. And 220 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: so love has to be for me, it has to 221 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: be freeing. It has to be expansive. It can't be 222 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: a place where I feel imprisoned to a set of 223 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: standards and social norms that I don't even subscribe to 224 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: or that I didn't even identify for myself. And to me, 225 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: it feels like another way of thinking about this is, 226 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: you know, white supremacy and to blackness, massage, no noir, 227 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: like all these systems that I don't personally have an 228 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: investment in right. I also don't have an investment in 229 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: monogamy culture. I don't need to live that way. It 230 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: doesn't serve me, right. So what I'm hoping and I 231 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 1: honestly I will say, I feel like during quarantine a 232 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: lot more people have been thinking about polymory and I 233 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: love that too. People like on top of the conversation 234 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: about you know, when we started, there are more articles 235 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: and more conversations around you know this outside of monogamy, 236 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: the belief that you know, I polyamory, which you tell 237 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: me a couple of years ago, it was not. I 238 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: don't want to say that it's mainstream now, but there 239 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: were more people who know what polyamory is, who have 240 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: like a basic understanding of it. We see it on 241 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: some television shows. What is it about this time in 242 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: our society outside both in the pandemic and outside of it, 243 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: that you think is kind of leading this new charge? 244 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: You know, there's obviously like the answer of the information age, 245 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: and there's more people who have social media. There's like 246 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: prominent polyamorousts on like Instagram who are sharing their experiences. 247 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: And there was a red table talk talk and all 248 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: of that, right, But I think the nitty gritty and 249 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: the nuts and bolt of it is that people are 250 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: realizing that monogamy doesn't really serve them, and you know, 251 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: you go back to the drawing board over and over 252 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: and over again in monogamous relationships that don't do well. 253 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,280 Speaker 1: And then so people are looking for options, they're looking 254 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: for solutions to what their problems are. So a lot 255 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: of a lot of people have meant, unfortunately, come to 256 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: polyamory through unethical non monogamy, so cheating, right, They're like, Okay, 257 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: I spent years and years and years cheating on my partner, 258 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: and I realize it's because I'm actually polyamorous, and I'm like, yeah, 259 00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: I just wish that wasn't so much of the narrative, right, 260 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 1: Like in nets life, you know, people discover things about 261 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: themselves in the ways that they do. That's just that's 262 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: the journey. But I do think that that is a 263 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: important way for us to think about what monogamy teaches us. Right, 264 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: It socializes us even into relationships and into a culture 265 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 1: where even as it's not serving us, we will stay 266 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: trapped in it, right, We will stay in it because 267 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: we're supposed to we're afraid of the stigma. We feel 268 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: a lot of shame. There are people around us who 269 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: will say, how dare you not be appreciative of that 270 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: one part you have when I have no one? Right, 271 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: That's the refrain I've gotten for years. For years, there 272 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: was a time where I was relationship with about three people, 273 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: and I had a friend who was single, and they 274 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,640 Speaker 1: would constantly say to me, you know, do not talk 275 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: to me about your relationships because I don't have any 276 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: and you have three. And I was like, yeah, that's 277 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 1: so problematic, right. And I think that we are in 278 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 1: a moment now where I think for folks who are 279 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: discovering polyamory and the popularization of polyamory, there's an intersection 280 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 1: there where folks who are realizing that they actually don't 281 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: care about the stigma or the shame associated with it, 282 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: because they'd rather be happy, right, you know. Being in 283 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: this particular political moment, in the post Trump moment, in 284 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: this COVID moment, it's like we have dealt with so 285 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: much grief, were dealt with so much anguish and pain, 286 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: in the constant state of mourning, and I think that 287 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly people are like, I just want to feel loved 288 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: and held and cared for on terms that reflect who 289 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: I am and what I want for myself. And that 290 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: may not be monogamy. It may not be heteronormative, it 291 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 1: may not be traditional. I may not want children, I 292 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: may not even want to move through the world in 293 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: the ways that I did be a post pre pandemic, right, 294 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: And I think that those are all valid, explorative moments 295 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: that people need to have in their lives. And I'm 296 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: happy for people. Like when folks are like, yeah, I'm 297 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 1: ending this long term relationships. I realized this wasn't happy, 298 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: and I'm like, well, I'm sorry, but that's great, right, 299 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 1: Like you weren't happy, and you're freeing yourself from something 300 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: you're not happy happy with, Like that's a really good thing. 301 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: So I think that you know, it's not just cultural. 302 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,560 Speaker 1: It's not just like you know movies and TV shows. 303 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: We've seen a lot of it's on television. They always 304 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 1: do it. They do an awful job talking about polyamory. 305 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: One I saw something and I said, I said, they 306 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: needed they needed y'all um to come on as like advice, 307 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 1: No seriously, like as advisors, because I think that there 308 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: is this made up version of polyamory. And then there 309 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: is like the actual real, you know, conversation. There's a 310 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: book that I actually i'd started reading, um, following one 311 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: of our conversations poly Secure, Um, I had started reading. 312 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 1: I had started reading that book to understand like that 313 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: all of us have a different attachment styles, yes, and 314 00:19:54,560 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: that and recognizing those attachment styles, recognizing ways in which 315 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: our attachments have been disrupted, right, um, And and then 316 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: how we come into relationship and what is that there 317 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: is an opportunity to create secure attachment with multiple people? 318 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 1: Yeah right, um? Yeah, And so I feel like when 319 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: I watch these shows, though, I'm like, nobody read that book. 320 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, nobody, nobody read the book. Nobody, nobody's reading, 321 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: nobody's reading. And you know, like, I'm so glad you 322 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: brought that up too, because really, over these years, I 323 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 1: think a lot of people have been digging into their 324 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: own helium journeys and reading books like My Grandmother's Hands 325 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: and The Body Keeps the Score and Polly's Secure and 326 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 1: you know this book called Attached. Right, I've been really 327 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,479 Speaker 1: hearing folks talking more about these or the set Boundaries workbook, right, 328 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: all these books that are really about understanding what you 329 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: want for yourself and your own body and your own desire, 330 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 1: and then going out and setting a standard for others 331 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: to meet you there. And I think you know, part 332 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 1: of what's coming out of that, right is this when 333 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: we talk about secure attachment, and you know, people can 334 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: read the books or whatever, discovering how you attached to 335 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: others based on the traumas you've experienced, based on the 336 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: past relationships you've been in. Right, that is a major 337 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: point of self discovery, Like that is a major access 338 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: point for you to decide how you want to move 339 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: forward in future relationships. And for a lot of people 340 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: they found, oh my gosh, the way that I've been 341 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 1: connecting with people on here, I'll just talk about not 342 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: a lot of people talk about myself. Right. I discovered 343 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: for me that, you know, my past relationship, my most 344 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: immediate past relationship was a trauma bond associated with my 345 00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: parental relationship, and that it didn't work because I was 346 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: trying to recapture a love for my mother in my relationship. 347 00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: And I was like, damn therapy, right, Like it hit 348 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,679 Speaker 1: me in my gut as it was ending, I was like, 349 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: why am I dating my mother? Right? And I was 350 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: reading these books and I was like, oh my gosh, 351 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: that's what I'm doing. That's what's happening here, you know. 352 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: And I think that's also what's happening in this moment, 353 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: is that people are being forced to face the forms 354 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 1: of grief and pain that a lot of in a 355 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 1: lot of respects, we could walk away from before. We 356 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: could leave the house, we could go on trips, we 357 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: could go a movie, we could get ourselves distract, distraction 358 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,640 Speaker 1: of a hobby, right, we could do all types of things. Right. 359 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: We can't socialize in those ways anymore. We can't go 360 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: out and keep ourselves distracted from our inner cells, our 361 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,360 Speaker 1: inner knowing, and so having to face those things I 362 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: think has also made people realize, hey, wait, I'm actually 363 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: wired differently than I thought I was, and that might 364 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: be in their loving relationships, that might or some people 365 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: have said, actually I'm very monogamous, right, Like my spouse 366 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: he said, listen, I'm actually still a heck of any 367 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: and he like, he hasn't budged, and he's gotten happier 368 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,439 Speaker 1: and happier every day in his monogamy, and I'm happy 369 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,239 Speaker 1: for him. Right. So this isn't to say that you know, 370 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: that's the direction that everyone is going to take, or 371 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,359 Speaker 1: that that's the option that folks discover when they start 372 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: to investigate who they are. But it is to say 373 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,640 Speaker 1: that it's a great thing that in this moment people 374 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: are doing that work. And if it just affirms where 375 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: you are, that's good too. But what's important is centering 376 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,719 Speaker 1: one's happiness, one's joy, and one's authenticity right moving in 377 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: one's authenticity. And if we're not doing that, we have 378 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: to get to the work of doing that. How do 379 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: you in you know, if you don't, if you don't 380 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: mind me asking, because you and your nesting partner, your 381 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: spouse have different uh, I guess different relationship orientations, right, um, 382 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: how did you come about having those conversations? So, for instance, 383 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 1: like I'm thinking to myself, somebody you know, the WOKAP 384 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: audience listening to this, and they're saying, you know, maybe 385 00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: maybe I do need to tap more into how I 386 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,479 Speaker 1: attach to people, what I consider to be important for 387 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: me at the foundation of relationship and what relationship looks like. 388 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: But I think that the person that I'm with this 389 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: is going to be a really difficult conversation to broach. 390 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,600 Speaker 1: Maybe we've been together for several years already in one 391 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: form or understanding, or I'm now venturing out on my 392 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: own right having left said partner, and now I'm in 393 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: a news space. How do I open myself up for 394 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: these varied formations of relationship? How do I engage in 395 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: those conversations? Yeah? So, I mean the first step I 396 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: would say is truth telling. You know, shout out to 397 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: Bell Hooks and all the black feminists who start there. 398 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: We if we are not in community with people who 399 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: if we can't tell people our truths, our inner sanctum, 400 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: our inner communities or inner circles, so we can't tell 401 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 1: them our truths, then we have to analyze why that's 402 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: the case. You know, with my partner, I've been lucky 403 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: enough to We were just talking about this yesterday. I've 404 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: been with this man for twenty years. Um, you know, 405 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: I've known him since I was seventeen years old. So 406 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: when I met him, and when I met him, I 407 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,920 Speaker 1: was not interested in him romantically. So let's talk about that, right. 408 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: Part of the issue with meeting folks with the intention 409 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,680 Speaker 1: of romance, or navigating our early interactions with the intention 410 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: of romance, is that we are also conditioned to perform. Right. 411 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: We're conditioned to put out our representative to say, here's 412 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: why you should pick me. Look I can cook, I 413 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: love football, and look how I beat my face and like, 414 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 1: we're conditioned to do those things right when we meet 415 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: folk platonically, right, we are conditioned to be ourselves. Right. 416 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: We are conditioned to say, here's who I am. You know, 417 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: please take me as I am. I want to be 418 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: friends with you, Like I would love to go and 419 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 1: just have a I want to be like you know, 420 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: the Golden Girls, right, Like, like that is a different 421 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: type of orientation. And for me, because I'm a person 422 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: who identifies a relationship anarchists, all of my relationships are 423 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: are that, right, So when I meet someone I'm very friendly, 424 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, this is awesome, you seem cool, what 425 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: we have in common? Blah blah blah. Right, and even 426 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,680 Speaker 1: if there is a romantic potential there, I still am 427 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,640 Speaker 1: very committed to you know, what type of friendship are 428 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: we building? Where is there where is there a connection 429 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: here beyond something sexual, beyond something romantic, you know, beyond 430 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 1: whether or not you are attractive or I am attractive? Like, 431 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: what do we actually have going for us here? And 432 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 1: I think that a lot of us get caught up 433 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: because we are searching for that one. We are searching 434 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,119 Speaker 1: for that person. We are searching and searching and searching, 435 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: and we're not really searching for reflections of ourselves and others. 436 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:12,240 Speaker 1: We're not searching for healing and helpful and supportive and 437 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: proactive connections with others. And so it's hard when you're 438 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: already in one of those relationships to then try to 439 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: go back and be like, Okay, so let's have this 440 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: tough conversation that we're not prepared for. Right. So I 441 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: would say, you know, it's get the books, right. You 442 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 1: have to do a lot of priming, you know, get 443 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: those books that we talk about. Send some links. Hey, 444 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: I saw this thing online, and you know, I think 445 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 1: it might pertain to us. What you think you know, 446 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: and and tease it out as long as you can 447 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: to see where where this person's head is at, right, Like, 448 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: if you are on the same page, that's fantastic. But 449 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: there may be instances when this person is like absolutely not, never, 450 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: no way, ever, And I would say that's not an 451 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,400 Speaker 1: equitable relationship, right. I would personally say I don't want 452 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: to be in community or relationship with someone who erects 453 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: walls um where we should have a dynamic and fruitful 454 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: conversation about how we want to move because if we 455 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: want to be life partners, if we want to be 456 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: in each other's lives forever, we're gonna change. Like twenty 457 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: years I've been with this person, I am, right, very 458 00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: similar to myself, but I'm very different, right. And if 459 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: we're not agreeing right now, right, yeah, right, And if 460 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: we're not agreeing to if we're not agreeing to explore 461 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: and discover and to continue to fall in love with 462 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: each other at every point of this journey, then I 463 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 1: don't want it. I don't want it. And so I think, 464 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: you know, it starts. It always starts for me at 465 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,479 Speaker 1: telling the truth, telling ourselves the truth, like hey, this 466 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: is who I am, and dealing with the shame right 467 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: Like it took me a long time. I was like, 468 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: oh god, girl, not only are you gay, but you polyamorous? 469 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: Who let's let's roll this out right. It's like you 470 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: gotta tell people in ways because they're stressed out, you know. 471 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: So I told people I was queer way before. It's like, 472 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,640 Speaker 1: y'all can handle the gay stuff, but I don't know 473 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: how y'all feel about the stuff, right, and like it 474 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: takes first starting with yourself to say, like what am 475 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: I comfortable with sharing? What am I comfortable with being 476 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: in public? Like how do I reconcile all of that? Right? 477 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: And then how do I navigate this with a trusted 478 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 1: set of folks who make me feel affirmed, who make 479 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: me feel confident in this so that I can go 480 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: out until the rest of the world. Because a lot 481 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: of people will push back and say, this is the 482 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: worst thing you've ever done in your life. There will 483 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: be people to this day. I've been with this man 484 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: for twenty years, and I explain we are in a 485 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: platonic marriage, we have three children, we're gonna be together forever, 486 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: don't plan on ever leaving this man. And there are 487 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: still people who would be like, oh my god, I 488 00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: cannot believe you're poly poor Darren every time, poor daring, 489 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: Oh my god, you are literally yeah, like and he's Meanwhile, 490 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: I'm sitting there like I'm good, I'm fine, everything's good, 491 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: I'm happy actually doing great things. And they're like, oh no, 492 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: because for them, right, their standard of how a man 493 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 1: should be treated by a woman, right, These kind of 494 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,040 Speaker 1: very binary logics is not this right, And so for 495 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: a long time I had to navigate the shame and 496 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: the hurt of hearing people I love say poor him 497 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: because of you, right, and people very close to me, 498 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: my own mother right, would say these things to me, 499 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: And I had to really work on making sure that 500 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 1: I felt safe in my own body and then my 501 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: own relationship so that when those things were said to me, 502 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: or when those those ideas were communicated to me, it 503 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: didn't rip me up the pieces. I didn't break up 504 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: and fall out because you know, what people think about 505 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,720 Speaker 1: your relationship in the end, actually doesn't it matter? Like 506 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: it really I know that do matter? It really doesn't. 507 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: What really matters is how you and the folks that 508 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: you are in relationships with feel in that relationship, right, 509 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 1: how you does it make you feel better when you 510 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: talk to this person? Do you feel better afterwards when 511 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: you interact with this do you feel better? Do you 512 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: feel worse? Like? How do you feel? Right? Our bodies 513 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,960 Speaker 1: tell us. Our bodies do all the work of telling 514 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: us what we should be doing and should not be doing, 515 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: but we are conditioned to ignore it. And I just 516 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: don't do that anymore. Jen I you know, I have 517 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: to tell you that every single time that you come 518 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: on Woke a f it's like it's not even I 519 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: don't even know what I call it, because it's not 520 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: even light bulbs that go off. It's like fireworks that 521 00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: go off in my mind. Because there are so many 522 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: things that are said. I no seriously, because I believe 523 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: that we are conditioned to ignore our intuition. We're conditioned 524 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: to be disconnected from ourselves and for society's judgment and 525 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,680 Speaker 1: ideas to be louder than our own internal voices. And 526 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: I think that it is radical. It is a radical 527 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: place to be in to say your outside noise does 528 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: not have effect on my internal compass, like does not 529 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: have does not get to direct me? Right? And to 530 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: say that in an audacious way is it's just so radical. 531 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 1: But yet I'm listening to you and I'm like, who 532 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 1: who is allowed society to dictate how we show up 533 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: and who we show up with? Right? Like I get 534 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: you know, parents and loved ones wanting folks to you know, 535 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: to be their best, to connect with somebody that will 536 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,400 Speaker 1: you know, care for them and love them. But I'm like, 537 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: if I have done that and it falls outside of 538 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: the the the construct that you have been participating in. 539 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: Does that mean like, what what does that mean for you? 540 00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that your judgment should reign louder. Again, 541 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it than my own intuition, than what 542 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: my body my mind is saying. And I feel like, 543 00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 1: if we were to all ask ourselves, do I feel good? 544 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: Does this person make me feel safe? Have these regular 545 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: check ins? Because that's the other thing too. We don't 546 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: regularly check in with ourselves. We don't regularly check in 547 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: with the people that we're with. M that's so weird. 548 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: So you know, right, because I'm a check but I'm 549 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: a check in person, Yes, and I think I think 550 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: that it's so important. Go ahead, no please. I was 551 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: laughing about this with my current partner, Um she was 552 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: she was making fun of me. Recently. We were over here, 553 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: she was over here with her wife and Darren was 554 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: in the kitchen and he was doing something and we 555 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: were on We were like joking, joking, joking, and she 556 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 1: was like, I just want everyone in the room to 557 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: know that tomorrow Jen is gonna check in on this. 558 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna have a debrief. And I was like, what 559 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 1: are you talking about She was like, so I know 560 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,719 Speaker 1: that tomorrow you're gonna wake up and say, okay, so 561 00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: how are you feeling about last night? Anything anything standing 562 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 1: out for you? Any lingering feelings? And I was like, 563 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,280 Speaker 1: first of all, I am gonna do that, and second 564 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 1: of all, I don't know why you don't know my life, 565 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: but literally you do. It's like, first of all, because 566 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: I do want to know how do you feel about that? 567 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: And it hit me because it made me really I 568 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: do these checkens with myself like, hey, how did that feel? Self? Like, 569 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 1: how how did you feel in this? A first sexual interaction, 570 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: at first kiss, first time holding hands, first time talking 571 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: to someone on the phone, first video chat, like all 572 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: these things. I'm like, hey, self, hey girl, how do 573 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: you feel about that? I go to my altars, I 574 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: talk to my hay spirits. How y'all feeling about this person? 575 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: Do you like her? I don't know, right, Like, I 576 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,359 Speaker 1: am in a point now I think where I don't 577 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,040 Speaker 1: actually understand not doing that right. I check in with 578 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: my friends. And this is something my therapist has said 579 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 1: to me too. She said, you know, and this is 580 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,399 Speaker 1: something I will say about my last relationship that helped 581 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: me to realize that I shouldn't have been in it. Right. 582 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:31,320 Speaker 1: Is that often when we're not checking in, it's because 583 00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,879 Speaker 1: deep down we know the thing is not good for us. Right, 584 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: So we're not checking in because we don't want to say, yeah, 585 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,759 Speaker 1: that didn't feel good. We don't want to tell our friends, yeah, 586 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: this relationship actually feels abusive. We don't want to tell others, 587 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,359 Speaker 1: or we don't want to share outlet don't say out loud. 588 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 1: We want to write in our journals, you know, oh god, 589 00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: it felt really uncomfortable when my partner embarrassed to me 590 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,960 Speaker 1: and didn't show up and didn't keep her word. Right. 591 00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: We learn to hide the things that make us feel 592 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: bad because we self shame. We shame ourselves before we 593 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,640 Speaker 1: can get it to somebody else. Right. And I started 594 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: writing in my journal. I do this thing in my 595 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 1: journal where I introduced myself. Every new journal that I get, 596 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: I introduced myself to my journal. I say, this is 597 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: who I am. Here are the things that I've lied 598 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: about previously to myself. Here are the things that I'm 599 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: working on. Blah blah blah blah blah. And in one 600 00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: of my journals, I realized that I was not telling 601 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: the truth to myself. And I was like, oh girl, 602 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 1: you're lying down, like you're lying about this relationship because 603 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 1: you want to You want this relationship so badly, right, 604 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 1: you want the optics of this relationship. You want the 605 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,720 Speaker 1: good parts. Right. These good parts over here feel so 606 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,800 Speaker 1: so good, they feel so so good, but the bad 607 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 1: parts feel so bad. And you're scared right about losing 608 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,040 Speaker 1: the good parts because of the bad parts. And maybe 609 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: if you just ignore them for a little while, you 610 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,759 Speaker 1: can fix them and then you don't have to talk 611 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,319 Speaker 1: about them. Right. So part of this check in process, right, 612 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,000 Speaker 1: which my spouse will tell you, I do with him 613 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: every morning he wakes up and he's half awake, he 614 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: has one eye open, and I'm like, so, how are 615 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: you feeling? He's like, why are you awake? You know? 616 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 1: Part of that is, you know, I want us to 617 00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: be telling the truth, and I want us to have 618 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,319 Speaker 1: an open dialogue so that it always feels safe to 619 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,040 Speaker 1: do so, for him to tell the truth to himself, 620 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,000 Speaker 1: for him to tell the truth to me, for me 621 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 1: to tell the truth to myself, for me to tell 622 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,080 Speaker 1: the truth to him. Right, and as long as people 623 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: are in relation to me, my best friends, right, we've 624 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: had difficult moments. I have a really, really, really close 625 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: friend and she's a platonic life partner of mine, and 626 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 1: we both have disabilities that we navigate all the time. 627 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm kind of one of her for 628 00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: her medical providers, I'm one of her her the people 629 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: that gets called from the hospital and things like that, 630 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: and so when I don't show up, you know, it 631 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: can cause a lot of anxiety. Right. This is a 632 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: loving partnership I have with her, and she knows that 633 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: she has a habit of when these things happen. She 634 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: can spin out writing narrative boom boom boom boom boom 635 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: boom boom. But because I'm a securely attached person, I say, hey, listen, girl, 636 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,000 Speaker 1: Hey hey, those emotions are yours and I love you 637 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:27,320 Speaker 1: and I love you through it. But you're gonna go 638 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 1: on that roller coaster by yourself. So you go on 639 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: that roller coaster and when you get off, we can 640 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,399 Speaker 1: talk about it. Right. But she always knows that once 641 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: she's done right, she has a safe place to come 642 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: and say I'm sorry, Hey, I was spinning out, I 643 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: was on my thing. Were you upset with me? Did 644 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: anything happen no, girl, everything was fine. Here's what was 645 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: happening in my life, Here's what we're going on over here. 646 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,600 Speaker 1: I'm sorry I didn't check in with you as I 647 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 1: usually do. That is out of a character for me, 648 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 1: and it's not a thing with you, I promise. Blah 649 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,840 Speaker 1: blah blah. You know that's what That's what we should 650 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: be doing with people we love. To me, that's a baseline, 651 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: right if I say I love you, it takes nothing 652 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 1: for me to say, hey, I love you so much 653 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:16,680 Speaker 1: that I want to be transparent. Right. That seems very obvious, right, No, yeah, 654 00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: you know I will say that. I hope, UM that 655 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 1: folks take from this conversation today, so so many, so 656 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 1: many gems gen that you that you always drop. But 657 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,439 Speaker 1: the truth of the matter is is that your first 658 00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 1: loving relationship that you should be in is the one 659 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: with yourself, and that we should not feel yeah, with yourself, um, 660 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: which your own personal Valentine's today should be every goddamn day. 661 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: If we're not showing ourselves love every each and every day, UM, 662 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: and affection and grace, I don't I don't know how 663 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,719 Speaker 1: we expect to show that up for other people. Um. 664 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: And then two to consistently. I say, interrogate your feelings, 665 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,440 Speaker 1: check in with yourself, and check in with those that 666 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: you are in relationship with, that you are in loving 667 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,719 Speaker 1: relationships with, whether they be platonic or romantic, all of 668 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,520 Speaker 1: those relationships are intimate. And ask yourself if you're not 669 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: checking in, why is that right? And then get to 670 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 1: your granular truth. Jen as always my goodness, such a pleasure, always, 671 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: such a good time. Folks, make sure to check out 672 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,840 Speaker 1: that Black Couple podcast um, follow Jen on social media, 673 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: and make sure to keep up to date with their writing. 674 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,319 Speaker 1: I appreciate you, says so much. Thanks for having me 675 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 1: for us here. Absolutely pleasure. That is it for me today. 676 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: Friends on Woke f as always, power to the people 677 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,840 Speaker 1: and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay 678 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:01,000 Speaker 1: woke as fuck.