1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,000
Speaker 1: Hi, This is Dana Perkins and you're listening to Switch

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,359
Speaker 1: It on the B and E F podcast. Today's episode

3
00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,080
Speaker 1: is about the energy transition in Africa, and more specifically,

4
00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,160
Speaker 1: we'll get into some case studies on Sub Saharan Africa.

5
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:16,000
Speaker 1: When we think about how the energy transition will play

6
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,319
Speaker 1: out in this region, the question remains whether countries that

7
00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,560
Speaker 1: are still yet to fully build out their energy system

8
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,600
Speaker 1: will embrace lower carbon emitting technologies or whether they will

9
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,760
Speaker 1: follow the same path to industrialization as other parts of

10
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,800
Speaker 1: the world. Each country is at a different place in

11
00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 1: the process, but the direction of travel is ultimately the same.

12
00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 1: Each country wants reliable access to electricity at a reasonable cost.

13
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: We thought this was the right time to dig into

14
00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,599
Speaker 1: research about Africa because COP twenty seven is approaching. The

15
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 1: COP meetings are the annual gatherings of the Conference of

16
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,280
Speaker 1: the Parties of the United Nations, and for the COP

17
00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,720
Speaker 1: meeting that we're referring to today, we're specifically talking about

18
00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,360
Speaker 1: a gathering of the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change,

19
00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,760
Speaker 1: or un F Triple C for short copy, which will

20
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,440
Speaker 1: take place this year between the sixth and eighteenth of

21
00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,959
Speaker 1: November and Scharmelsheik Egypt has a buzz about this year's

22
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,640
Speaker 1: meetings and wondering whether or not there will be more

23
00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:16,040
Speaker 1: discussion than in some of the year's past about financing,

24
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,920
Speaker 1: decarbonization and developing nations, and that many eyes will be

25
00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:23,400
Speaker 1: on Africa specifically now to help us consider some of

26
00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,959
Speaker 1: the activity that we're already seeing in the region and

27
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,000
Speaker 1: things that maybe people will be talking about when we

28
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:33,400
Speaker 1: get there. Two cop I speak with Chastity McFadden. She's

29
00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,640
Speaker 1: an energy transitions analyst at BIENF. Now quickly a reminder

30
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,920
Speaker 1: that BIENF does not provide investment or strategy advice, and

31
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 1: we've got a complete disclaimer at the end of the show.

32
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,360
Speaker 1: And now let's jump into the conversation with Chastity about

33
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:51,320
Speaker 1: the energy transition in Africa and sub Sara in Africa.

34
00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,600
Speaker 1: Chasm thank you very much for joining us today. Thank

35
00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:00,520
Speaker 1: you for having me Da. So we're here attack focus

36
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 1: on a very regionally focused topic. And by regional, I

37
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,280
Speaker 1: mean we're talking about an entire continent, so it's going

38
00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 1: to be hard to narrow it down. I think we

39
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,200
Speaker 1: will actually narrow it down to specific part of the

40
00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,720
Speaker 1: continent in a moment, but as we get into a

41
00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,920
Speaker 1: discussion around Africa and the energy transition and what it

42
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 1: means there. Let's start with prefacing that we have this

43
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:26,600
Speaker 1: upcoming COP twenty seven that will be in Charmelschek and

44
00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,120
Speaker 1: I've heard a lot of people refer to this upcoming

45
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,639
Speaker 1: COP as our Conference of the parties if you will

46
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,480
Speaker 1: focus specifically on climate change, because there are more than

47
00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,880
Speaker 1: one of these, I've heard if people refer to it

48
00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:42,400
Speaker 1: as the Africa COP. And I guess my question for you,

49
00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,840
Speaker 1: as somebody who focuses on researching the energy transition in Africa?

50
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,520
Speaker 1: Is that fair? And do you have any expectations it

51
00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,600
Speaker 1: can be fair or not depending on how you look

52
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,880
Speaker 1: at it. One I want to sort of preface this

53
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,800
Speaker 1: was saying there have been several other COPS that have

54
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,519
Speaker 1: been in Africa, so this is the first of its

55
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,960
Speaker 1: kind by any means. That being said, I think we

56
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,240
Speaker 1: are at a time when the world is finally ready

57
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,720
Speaker 1: to talk about the transition in Africa, which is what

58
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:17,160
Speaker 1: is making this COP in Charmelshe so important. So many

59
00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,200
Speaker 1: things could come from it potentially, and why do you

60
00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,480
Speaker 1: think we're ready to talk about it. I think a

61
00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,440
Speaker 1: lot of it comes down to what's happening more on

62
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,639
Speaker 1: the global scales, such as the war in Ukraine. Everyone

63
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,520
Speaker 1: is sort of thinking more about the transition. There are

64
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,120
Speaker 1: more discussions about climate justice and what that looks like

65
00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:39,400
Speaker 1: as developing nations aren't getting as much funding to sort

66
00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 1: of prepare themselves for an environmental transition, but they are

67
00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:48,800
Speaker 1: experiencing most of the environmental backlash, such just with Pakistan

68
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,560
Speaker 1: and their flooding or monsoon season just being out of

69
00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,120
Speaker 1: control in recent years. So this is a conversation around

70
00:03:56,280 --> 00:04:01,480
Speaker 1: perhaps just transition and energy access, but also one definitely

71
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,200
Speaker 1: about missions and project finance, and I guess will come

72
00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,920
Speaker 1: to that. So when we talk today, I think it

73
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,640
Speaker 1: makes sense for us to focus our conversation on Sub

74
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 1: Saharan Africa. And I guess my question for you actually

75
00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,880
Speaker 1: is why has that been, in many respects the focus

76
00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,120
Speaker 1: of your research at B and F. So I chose

77
00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,040
Speaker 1: Sub Saharan Africa because I think it's an amazing region

78
00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:29,000
Speaker 1: that we don't talk about enough. There's a lot of

79
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 1: innovation and changes that are happening on the ground that

80
00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,920
Speaker 1: are otherwise pretty much ignored because there's so much happening

81
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,000
Speaker 1: in other places in the world at larger scales. But

82
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:44,080
Speaker 1: I think that this sort of smaller skille stuff is

83
00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:48,800
Speaker 1: what has the potential to take these countries that are

84
00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,719
Speaker 1: thinking more about electrification and what it means to build

85
00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,920
Speaker 1: out their power systems and having them implement sort of

86
00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 1: more green power systems from the get gos. So there's

87
00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,960
Speaker 1: a lot of conversation about leap frogging over the fossil

88
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: fuel period, if you want to call it that, and

89
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,080
Speaker 1: I think Sub Saharan Africa in particular has the potential

90
00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,760
Speaker 1: to do this in which makes it a really interesting

91
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 1: region to look at for innovation. Well, so then let's

92
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,080
Speaker 1: dig into one country. This is a good specific case study,

93
00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 1: and some of that has to the size. So Namibia

94
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 1: is about two and a half million people, which to

95
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,680
Speaker 1: put that into context, I believe, you know, London has

96
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,920
Speaker 1: over eight million people, so it's roughly the size population

97
00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,839
Speaker 1: wise is the city of Chicago in the United States.

98
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,040
Speaker 1: But you know, it definitely has this power system which

99
00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:44,200
Speaker 1: has taken advantage of more recently with solar power, has

100
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,360
Speaker 1: it not and how has that taken shape and kind

101
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:50,799
Speaker 1: of why do you think it's developed in that direction? Sure,

102
00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:56,200
Speaker 1: so Namibia has amazing solar resources. So that's a fundamental

103
00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,760
Speaker 1: reason why solar and not maybe wind or biomass, but

104
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 1: even more so, the country is very hydro reliant, and

105
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,680
Speaker 1: with droughts and the increasing frequency of droughts due to

106
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 1: climate change, we're seeing that obviously that is impacting their

107
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,160
Speaker 1: power system in a deeply negative way, and they're not

108
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:23,400
Speaker 1: able to provide for most of their domestic power needs.

109
00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:29,440
Speaker 1: So they're heavily reliant on power imports from South Africa,

110
00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:36,320
Speaker 1: which made up about fifty of Namibia's total power And

111
00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,640
Speaker 1: Namibia obviously wants to be power independent and they have

112
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:44,240
Speaker 1: a goal to meet of their power demands domestically by

113
00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,360
Speaker 1: so turning to solar is sort of that first step

114
00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:54,280
Speaker 1: in developing a more independent, green power system for the country.

115
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:59,120
Speaker 1: So this is really a story of domestic energy production

116
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:03,040
Speaker 1: and wanting to be able to probably have some control

117
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,200
Speaker 1: over prices. Has that led to, at least historically, buying

118
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,680
Speaker 1: so much from South Africa, has it led to power

119
00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:15,760
Speaker 1: outages or just incredibly high prices at peak use times? Yes,

120
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,560
Speaker 1: to bowl, Because the power systems are inherently very reliant

121
00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,720
Speaker 1: on one another. South Africa has its own problems with

122
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:27,280
Speaker 1: constant load shedding, blackouts, which are increasing so increasingly South

123
00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:33,880
Speaker 1: Africa can't provide this electricity empowered to Namibia, which makes

124
00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,920
Speaker 1: it more difficult for Namibia to get the sources that

125
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,960
Speaker 1: they need. So then they're just relying on a system

126
00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:45,360
Speaker 1: that's becoming increasingly unreliant, and therefore their system is becoming unreliant.

127
00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,680
Speaker 1: So they've been historically somewhat a reflection of what was

128
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,480
Speaker 1: happening there. So as they build out solar, then there

129
00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:57,120
Speaker 1: is the question of storage, and there has been I

130
00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,760
Speaker 1: believe some development on that side. What if they recently

131
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:05,240
Speaker 1: about kind of handling the intermittency issue. So batteries is

132
00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,840
Speaker 1: sort of a new thing in Namibia. They just built

133
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,360
Speaker 1: I guess they're working on and it should be completely

134
00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 1: commissioned in three But this large, first standalone utility scale

135
00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,200
Speaker 1: battery project called the Umburu Energy Storage Project. So this

136
00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,400
Speaker 1: is a fifty eight megawatt lithium ion battery that's built

137
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,680
Speaker 1: in conjunction I guess, right next to one of their

138
00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,040
Speaker 1: largest solar plants. And the goal is to sort of

139
00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 1: deal with this intermittency problem and make sure that they

140
00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,560
Speaker 1: have that reliability, which is their ultimate goal. And so

141
00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,680
Speaker 1: this presumably I mean and stationary storage batteries are still

142
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,560
Speaker 1: fairly expensive, so how is this funded. This was actually

143
00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:53,319
Speaker 1: funded by a German based development bank kf W, which

144
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,920
Speaker 1: is how this battery sort of came to be. So

145
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,040
Speaker 1: in more developed markets, it's more of a question of

146
00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:05,040
Speaker 1: how can private investors come in and take advantage of

147
00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,560
Speaker 1: I guess selling it peak hours or what sort of

148
00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,080
Speaker 1: methods there are that the government has put in place

149
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,800
Speaker 1: for private battery investors to make money And in this case,

150
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,559
Speaker 1: now maybe it doesn't have a system that's ready for

151
00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,720
Speaker 1: that level of complexity. So what they did was the

152
00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:29,079
Speaker 1: battery is actually owned by the state owned utility and

153
00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,320
Speaker 1: it is really strictly there for dealing with intermittency, and

154
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 1: because it was funded by the development bank, that issue

155
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:41,559
Speaker 1: of high financing costs was sort of dealt with, which

156
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,040
Speaker 1: was and continues to be a large barrier for batteries

157
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,080
Speaker 1: in Sub Saharan Africa. We do see batteries balancing the

158
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,800
Speaker 1: grid and a number of different countries. Is this a

159
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:55,480
Speaker 1: solution from a technical implementation standpoint that you see in

160
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:57,880
Speaker 1: other parts of Sub Saharan Africa or isn't it maybe

161
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,800
Speaker 1: a really a pioneer in space? Now maybe it's definitely

162
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 1: a pioneer in this space. But we're also seeing that

163
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,680
Speaker 1: there is going to be more uptakes. So for example,

164
00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,040
Speaker 1: Senegal is now building a forty megawatt battery storage plant.

165
00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,160
Speaker 1: There's a little bit of battery storage in South Africa

166
00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 1: as well, so there's sort of this uptaking it. But

167
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,679
Speaker 1: Namibia is a pioneer in the way this was financed

168
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,520
Speaker 1: and sort of the purpose of this to a larger degree.

169
00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,360
Speaker 1: This is a battery plus storage project. This is strictly

170
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,360
Speaker 1: a battery project, which is unique. And then you were

171
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:39,200
Speaker 1: talking earlier about South Africa, so Namibia is dependent, at

172
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,480
Speaker 1: least historically has been dependent upon South Africa's energy system,

173
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,200
Speaker 1: which is in a bit of strain at the moment.

174
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,760
Speaker 1: Can you explain kind of what's causing the outages in

175
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,120
Speaker 1: South Africa and why some people there are referring to,

176
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,800
Speaker 1: you know, it is an energy crisis, completely separate from

177
00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:01,160
Speaker 1: actually what's happening with Russian Ukraine into pendent ly with

178
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,520
Speaker 1: you know, some some crunch on their energy system. South

179
00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:09,760
Speaker 1: Africa definitely is in a rough place and experiencing when

180
00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,800
Speaker 1: many people are referring to as an energy crisis. We're

181
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:18,360
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of unplanned outages from usually older plants

182
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:23,440
Speaker 1: or explosions at coal plants. As COOM, the state owned

183
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 1: utility really doesn't have the resources to do proper maintenance.

184
00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,760
Speaker 1: So what we're seeing is a lot of these plants

185
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,760
Speaker 1: are kind of falling apart and then they're quickly put

186
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,160
Speaker 1: back together because this unplanned outage is causing a lot

187
00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:45,520
Speaker 1: of blackouts and people aren't getting access to power, and

188
00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 1: then they just tend to fall apart again. So we're

189
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,360
Speaker 1: seeing this a lot among the coal plants in South Africa,

190
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,560
Speaker 1: in particular, to the point where unplanned outages increased to

191
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 1: in July of to, which equates to about sixteen gigawatts

192
00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,120
Speaker 1: of the capacity base, which is like highly significant. I

193
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:11,800
Speaker 1: think South Africa's great isn't very large, so that seventeen

194
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 1: giga watts causes a lot of issues when it's just

195
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,040
Speaker 1: pulled offline. I mean in your reference specifically explosions, I

196
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,920
Speaker 1: mean that is a pretty big deal for you know,

197
00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,599
Speaker 1: an energy producing facilities or not. Yes, absolutely, this is

198
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:29,320
Speaker 1: definitely not something that's being taken lightly. It is dangerous

199
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:31,960
Speaker 1: in people's lives are at risk as these things are exploding.

200
00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,040
Speaker 1: But I'm constantly getting alerts on my phone about this

201
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,640
Speaker 1: explosion happened this many people were harmed, so people are

202
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,960
Speaker 1: in danger and it is a tragedy truly. The way

203
00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 1: that the interconnector is between different countries in Sub Saharan Africa,

204
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,920
Speaker 1: work is possible. And has South Africa been buying energy

205
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,600
Speaker 1: from other countries, presumably at a higher rate when these

206
00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,080
Speaker 1: sorts of plants come offline less. South Africa really is

207
00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:07,320
Speaker 1: a energy exporter for the region because it has the

208
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 1: largest grid. So many of the surrounding countries aren't producing

209
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 1: enough domestically and therefore aren't exporting a lot. There's a

210
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,280
Speaker 1: little bit of exporting going on from other countries in

211
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,080
Speaker 1: the South African power pool to South Africa, but it's

212
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:28,320
Speaker 1: really not significant enough to make up for what's happening

213
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,439
Speaker 1: in the country now for a very short break, stay

214
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:38,520
Speaker 1: with us. So in South Africa, instead of leap frogging,

215
00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,480
Speaker 1: they do have you mean, you already referenced coal fired

216
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,680
Speaker 1: power stations that have been around for a while. They

217
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,040
Speaker 1: have a lot of legacy generating assets. But there are

218
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:50,520
Speaker 1: also things in the pipeline as we look forward, and

219
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,880
Speaker 1: what are the things in the pipeline? And I guess

220
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,840
Speaker 1: my question is how many of them are coal or

221
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,440
Speaker 1: potentially gas, which many do continue to refer to as

222
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,240
Speaker 1: a bridge few, but we can come to where it

223
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,840
Speaker 1: sits in the energy system given the current elevated prices,

224
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:09,240
Speaker 1: or are they looking at additionally cleaning up their grid

225
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:14,319
Speaker 1: and adding more net zero generation. They're definitely looking at

226
00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,560
Speaker 1: adding more clean energy solutions to the grid, so in

227
00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:24,320
Speaker 1: one their power technology of choice was actually solar, which

228
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,040
Speaker 1: is a change from previous years where it was more

229
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,840
Speaker 1: fossil fuel energy based. That being said, there is some

230
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,720
Speaker 1: coal plant in the pipeline, but it's not very much.

231
00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,920
Speaker 1: I think for the entire region, coal plants in the

232
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,680
Speaker 1: pipeline only amount to two point two giga watts compared

233
00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,240
Speaker 1: to the about fifty gigga watts that are installed, So

234
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,760
Speaker 1: we see like regionally speaking, coal power is on the

235
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:55,280
Speaker 1: decline in South Africa. That's true as well, and when

236
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,360
Speaker 1: they implemented their twenty nineteen Integrated Resource Plan, it definitely

237
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 1: has more of a focus on solar and wind capacity

238
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 1: being added to the grid to make up for all

239
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,880
Speaker 1: of the cold they're going to have to decommission. They

240
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,240
Speaker 1: have decommissioning plans out to as well. How about natural gas?

241
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,400
Speaker 1: These prices lately have been putting a pinch at least

242
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 1: definitely here in Europe and in Western Europe. What has

243
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,200
Speaker 1: it meant for Africa. So it's a bit complicated in

244
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 1: Africa because we're seeing that there are a lot of

245
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,360
Speaker 1: discoveries of gas reserves. So there's a lot of talk

246
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:39,400
Speaker 1: about exporting gas to Europe and there's even potential plans.

247
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,120
Speaker 1: They're not super officially yet, but they're working on it

248
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,040
Speaker 1: to build a gas pipeline from Nigeria to Morocco with

249
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,880
Speaker 1: the hopes of exporting that to Europe to make up

250
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,520
Speaker 1: for the energy crisis that Europe is experiencing due to

251
00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:59,320
Speaker 1: the Russia Ukraine War. But like domestically speaking, most African

252
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:04,280
Speaker 1: countries are really installing more solar, there still is quite

253
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,600
Speaker 1: a bit of natural gas and it makes up a

254
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 1: huge portion of total capacity. It's at about of total

255
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,840
Speaker 1: capacity is natural gas in Africa for and this number

256
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,680
Speaker 1: increased from about thirty in so we're seeing that this

257
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:28,240
Speaker 1: is growing, but it's not growing at such a high

258
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,520
Speaker 1: rate like solar is. Like solar grew about five across

259
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,000
Speaker 1: the continent in one and we're kind of predicting that

260
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,000
Speaker 1: that will continue to grow as more countries like Gonna, Rwanda,

261
00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,200
Speaker 1: South Africa, Tunisia and others are choosing solar to be

262
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 1: their primary installed technology each year. Each country has a

263
00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,120
Speaker 1: very different makeup of the investment profile, and the levelized

264
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,160
Speaker 1: cost of electricity for different technologies may differ from place

265
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,720
Speaker 1: to place. You know, is solar the cheapest solution in

266
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,199
Speaker 1: some countries and let's say, you know, we've been talking

267
00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,360
Speaker 1: thus far about Namibia, South Africa, and then maybe let's

268
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 1: add one of the other reasonably developed energy systems in

269
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,639
Speaker 1: Nigeria to the mix. Are you seeing the l c

270
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,080
Speaker 1: OE in a lot of these countries? Is it competing?

271
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,240
Speaker 1: And where did gas and coal fall on this? I've

272
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 1: been surprised sometimes when looking at some countries outside of

273
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 1: Europe and outside of North America that the cost for coal,

274
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,159
Speaker 1: for example, is much cheaper than you know, I initially assumed. Yeah, absolutely,

275
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,639
Speaker 1: so it really depends on the country, as you were saying,

276
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,560
Speaker 1: but there definitely are countries where solar is the cheapest,

277
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:49,600
Speaker 1: and we kind of understand by solar prices for this

278
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:54,240
Speaker 1: region are going to continue to fall. So right now,

279
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,920
Speaker 1: based on our calculations, solar and coal are about equal

280
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,679
Speaker 1: if we're looking at countries across the region. The issue

281
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,880
Speaker 1: with solar is that the l c O is such

282
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 1: a wide range, like it can be from fifty eight

283
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 1: dollars a megawatt hour to two hundred and fifteen dollars

284
00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 1: a megawatt hour, So it really really depends on where

285
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,320
Speaker 1: you are the resources that you have, which impacts how

286
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,800
Speaker 1: it's going to compare to fossil fields, of course, and

287
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: those prices for fossil fields per megawatt hour a little

288
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,080
Speaker 1: more stable. So coal is about at a hundred and

289
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:35,160
Speaker 1: thirty eight a megawatt hour and natural gas for combined

290
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,199
Speaker 1: cycle gas turbines is seventy four two hundred and fifty

291
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,960
Speaker 1: per megawatt hour, so there's definitely a range. It depends

292
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,080
Speaker 1: on where you are. That being said, our calculations show

293
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,960
Speaker 1: that coal and solar are about at the same level

294
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,439
Speaker 1: right now, and we expect solar to continually dip until

295
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,240
Speaker 1: it falls even below natural gas. We kind of expect

296
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 1: that solar will be the cheapest new installed technology by

297
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: across the region, and these are largely new projects, so

298
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,760
Speaker 1: that then brings me to who are funding these projects,

299
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 1: and you know who's investing in South Africa's grid, for example,

300
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,359
Speaker 1: we're seeing investment come from quite a few places. We

301
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 1: have investors in a pack in Europe of course, primarily

302
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:26,960
Speaker 1: development banks are most interested in investing in these projects.

303
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:31,400
Speaker 1: There's some funding coming from Middle East North Africa as

304
00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,240
Speaker 1: well as the America's but we also see that there's

305
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 1: like a lot of domestically based funding for many projects,

306
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,680
Speaker 1: especially for gas fired power plants, and do you think

307
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,919
Speaker 1: that that will be Ultimately the funding of these projects

308
00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,360
Speaker 1: will be the thing discussed the most of the upcoming

309
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: COP Absolutely most of the talk by countries in Africa

310
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 1: when talking about COP this year is really about the

311
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: investment gap. So developed nations were supposed to hit an

312
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:09,320
Speaker 1: investment of a hundred billion dollars by and they just

313
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,800
Speaker 1: didn't make it and be enough sort of predicts that

314
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 1: there's only four and ten chance that the billion dollar

315
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 1: target will be met by the end of So that's

316
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:25,480
Speaker 1: only chance, and developing countries are not happy about this, obviously,

317
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: as we talked about before about justice and what that's

318
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,199
Speaker 1: looking like. As many of these countries are dealing with

319
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,000
Speaker 1: a lot of the consequences of climate change because they

320
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 1: don't have the resources to mitigate those problems. Because of that,

321
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: they're really demanding that the money be sent to these

322
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 1: developing countries to help build them up and create these

323
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,719
Speaker 1: green economies and green markets. Which country in Sub Saharan

324
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,800
Speaker 1: Africa have you seen the most external financing go into.

325
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:59,280
Speaker 1: So our biggest markets are South Africa, Morocco, Kenya, in Egypt,

326
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: and they definitely tracked the bulk of investment. So for

327
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 1: foreign direct investment, they made up about roughly half of

328
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: total investment from so those are sort of our hot

329
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,480
Speaker 1: markets that are constantly pulling in more investment. But interestingly,

330
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: in we're actually seeing that a pretty large percentage are

331
00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:27,920
Speaker 1: from smaller countries outside of those big four. So thinking

332
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:33,400
Speaker 1: more of the large biomass project in Cope Devoir, that

333
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,919
Speaker 1: was a really large project in that really pushed investment

334
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 1: in that region, and we're sort of seeing again that

335
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 1: these smaller countries are making up the bulk of investment

336
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,000
Speaker 1: in So there's potential that there's sort of going to

337
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 1: be a shift here, But historically speaking, definitely those four

338
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: markets have made up the large majority of foreign direct investment.

339
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 1: And what is the policy environment like in of these countries?

340
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: So I mean you referenced earlier that Namibia it's a

341
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 1: state owned utility, so I could see that from an

342
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:11,880
Speaker 1: external investors standpoint that may not be as favorable when

343
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: compared to, you know, a liberalized market. What do you

344
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: see What sort of trends do you see in some

345
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: of the countries around policy. We're seeing interestingly a lot

346
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:29,239
Speaker 1: of our big policy framework such as auctions, renewable energy targets,

347
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 1: import tax reductions, things like that. Africa as a continent

348
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 1: is performing at a really high percentage. The majority of

349
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 1: countries have these policies in place. Where we're seeing the

350
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: gap is sort of implementation of these policies. So while

351
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 1: they're in place, maybe they're not so consistent, like auctions

352
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 1: don't happen on an annual basis, or there's like a

353
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 1: big one and then there's a huge gap of time

354
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:57,520
Speaker 1: and then another big one comes up. So that's happening

355
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 1: a lot and causing a lot of and uster concern

356
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 1: around getting into these markets. More advanced power systems have

357
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,119
Speaker 1: things like a wholesale market, for example, and we're seeing

358
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: that zero countries across Africa have implemented a wholesale market,

359
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 1: and that's a really reliable way for investors to get

360
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: involved in the market. So there definitely is a policy gap,

361
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: but I would say the majority of the policy gap

362
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: is really about consistency of the policies that are in place,

363
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: which needs to be addressed before adding additional policies, and

364
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 1: how are auctions working. I mean, again, I keep coming

365
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 1: back to the fact that we've got to pick a

366
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: couple of countries to highlight, and I think the main

367
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 1: thing about researching this space is, you know, there's this

368
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 1: ability to essentially highlight case studies and then to use

369
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,239
Speaker 1: these case studies as a way to say, you know,

370
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 1: this may be a potentially parallel market and a way

371
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: to look at how to design an energy system and

372
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: you know, take bits and pieces from your neighbors or

373
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 1: maybe don't and develop it as you go. But where

374
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,879
Speaker 1: are you seeing kind of auction markets functioning really well

375
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: and driving the desired outcome in terms of you know,

376
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 1: cleaner capacity being developed. I think South Africa usually plays

377
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: a very big role in sort of determining auctions just

378
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: because they implemented the twenty nineteen Integrated Resource Plan, it's

379
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 1: sort of outlined exactly what their auctions were going to

380
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: look like out to So that was a really really

381
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: significant piece of policy for the region and sort of

382
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 1: something that's being looked at and implemented in other places

383
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: as well. So we definitely looked to South Africa as

384
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: a case study for auctions. That being said, like I mentioned,

385
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: inconsistency and auctions is a big problem in South Africa

386
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,440
Speaker 1: is not immune to this issue, but definitely one place

387
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: that it has worked out. Kenya is another country that

388
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: has seen quite a bit of capacity I guess clean

389
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: energy capacity installed due to auctions. They auction off a

390
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: huge wind plant a few years ago that has provided

391
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 1: a lot of power to the grid. They also have

392
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: geothermal and solar, a lot of different technologies to sort

393
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: of diversify the grid. That maybe as also an example

394
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 1: of auctions being implemented, but they sort of have struggled

395
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: with consistency of application, although we're seeing that a lot

396
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: of the issues are being addressed. So they're increasing renewable

397
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 1: energy capacity, especially solar and as we talked about before,

398
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: the batteries to increase that capacity on the grid. Thinking

399
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: about I guess mechanisms that have worked to drive emissions

400
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: down in certain parts of the world and other parts

401
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: of the world. And I'm thinking specifically now from where

402
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: I'm seated in Europe when the EU E t US,

403
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 1: is there a discussion around carbon markets and is that

404
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: starting to surface in many parts of Africa at the moment,

405
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: there are discussions happening, and maybe as another great example

406
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: of this, they're talking more about carbon offsets and have

407
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: been working with Japan to sort of figure out how

408
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: to offer carbon markets and a lot of this comes

409
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: from their new Nationally Determined Contribution their NDC, where they're

410
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: aiming for a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by compared

411
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 1: to levels. So this is a significant reduction and part

412
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: of how they're hoping to achieve that is through carbon offsets.

413
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: And then as we head into cops, so it's just

414
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: i mean, just around the corner in November, what is

415
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: it that you're watching? You reference these percentage chances of

416
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: certain things happening. You know, we do take a forward

417
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: looking on our policy focused analysts. They do try and say, okay,

418
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: what are the chances that we have an outcome in

419
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,199
Speaker 1: these kind of ten areas. What are the sorts of

420
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: things that you're keeping the closest eye on. If this

421
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: is one of many Africa cops. I think. I am

422
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: also pretty closely looking at this investment piece and thinking

423
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: about where this investment is going to come from, because

424
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: it's not super clear yet exactly who is going to

425
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 1: fund this transition in Africa and how we're going to

426
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: have a just transition across the world. We don't really know.

427
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: There are lots of people the word transition, and even

428
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: some countries in Africa have policies around just transition, but

429
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: how that actually plays out and who is funding this

430
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,479
Speaker 1: are the big questions that I'm thinking about and looking

431
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: at going into COP this year. So not just the

432
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: commitments of the money that's already been put against in

433
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 1: theory in the air and committed to, but actually seeing

434
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: that financing, the development financing actually come to pass and

435
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 1: what may happen I guess on the back of meetings

436
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: taking place this November exactly. Well, Chastity, thank you for

437
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: sharing with us what you will be watching as we

438
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: look ahead to COP and also as we just think

439
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: about what is going to happen in a growing part

440
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: of the world from a population and energy demand standpoint.

441
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: I am sure that you're saying this is a you know,

442
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 1: sub Saharan Africa in particular, was one of the spaces

443
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 1: that we weren't covering in super robust detail several years back.

444
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: But I do anticipate that we will only see more

445
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: research focused on this part of the world going forward. Yes,

446
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having me, Danta, this is

447
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: a lovely conversation. Today's episode of Switched On was edited

448
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: by Rex Warner of gray Stoke Media. Bloomberg any F

449
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: as a service provided by Bloomberg Finance LP and its affiliates.

450
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 1: This recording does not constitute, nor should it be construed

451
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,360
Speaker 1: as investment advice, investment recommendations, or recommendation as to an

452
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: investment or other strategy. Bloomberg an F should not be

453
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: considered as information sufficient upon which to base an investment decision.

454
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: Neither Bloomberg Finance LP nor any of its affiliates makes

455
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: any representation or warranty as to the accuracy or completeness

456
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,320
Speaker 1: of the information contained in this recording, and any liability

457
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: of this recording is expressly disclaimed.