WEBVTT - Richard Gottehrer 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.800 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Left That's podcast. My 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:18.440 guest today is a singer, a songwriter, a producer, a technologist. Yes, 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:23.279 I'm speaking to the one and only Richard Godderer. Richard, Well, 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:26.000 given what it took to get this started, I would 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:30.120 take technologist out of it. Although you did start the 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:34.120 orchard and we'll get there. Uh. So, how you're handling COVID, Richard, 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:41.559 pretty good? Uh, I'm recognizing birds. I have squirrels that 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:47.080 are personal friends. Now we left the city. We have 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.199 an apartment in New York and when the Orchard and 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:55.520 Sony closed, uh probably marched twelve. I came up to 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.040 the house, which is a bit outside of the city, 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:01.200 and uh we've been here of a sense, but I 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:06.520 have gone back to the apartment a few times and uh, 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.440 you see it's it's kind of strange. But now it's 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:13.760 gotten pretty much back to normal. The Upper West Side 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.600 is full of people. What's what's missing, though, is Midtown 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:21.920 that's quiet. You go down Fifth Avenue, will come up 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:27.640 Park of Madison and you really see, um see that 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:32.000 that it might be an issue for businesses, uh, for 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:36.640 rental of those big spaces, the office space is going forward. 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:41.200 It might be a problem. You know. Well, hey, you 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:43.160 know we're still recovering. It looks like it's going to 0:01:43.240 --> 0:01:45.360 get words over the winter. But let's go with you. 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:49.760 How did you and your two partners? Right? I want candy? Uh, 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.200 you want to hear that story. It's it's quite absolutely 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.640 it's quite a good story. Actually, well let's let's go 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:04.040 to this first before I want Candy. We put out, Um, 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:09.840 we put out a a single on the legendary Swan 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.600 Records Swanted licensed of course, great record. Okay, wait, we 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:16.000 just stop there for a second because I don't think 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.000 I know everything there. Swan of course put out she 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.680 loves You, the Beatles album She Loves You Freddie Cannon. Okay, 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:28.040 so what was Swan Records? Who owned that? Um? Two 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:33.720 guys that I think we're in partnership with, um, Dick Clark. 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:37.240 Let's get it that way. We in those days you 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:42.560 could have partnerships in the media, um sort of um 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:48.840 and okay. So we had written songs that were uh 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.200 minor hits for Freddie Cannon. One called What's going to 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:54.640 Happen When Summer's Done. It was a follow up to 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:58.520 Passage Park. So we knew the people there, so we 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:02.720 had this track we had done with the Angels, and 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.320 they just didn't want to do it. But it was 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.840 a Scott track, a version of I think it was 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.639 a Joe Stafford song. A little love that slowly grows 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.280 and grows, not one that comes to that's all I 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:19.600 want from you. Well we did it. A little love, 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:22.760 love that slowly it goes, It goes, you know, like 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:27.320 a stop. And in the middle Bob Feldman goes, Oh, 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.760 little louve that slowly grows, it grows, you know, with 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:34.240 a fake British accent, just for a joke. We put 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:39.440 the record out nowhere, nowhere does it show any activity 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.120 until we get a phone call from a guy in 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.839 Virginia Beach, Virginia, a disc jockey, I still remember his name. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:51.240 It was Gene Loving and he said, if you guys 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:55.640 could come down here and play a show at the Colosseum. 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.160 Of course we were like stoned out producers. We didn't 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:02.880 know anything about that. Um I could make this record 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:07.120 number one. Well, when someone says number one, you jump. 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:12.520 Number ten, you don't jump. Number five, you crawl. Number 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:17.320 one you jump. So we pack up a crew. We 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:22.760 have adventures going down to Virginia Beach with triving with 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:30.680 three cars and these banging African hair drums that I played. UM. 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:34.320 We pull into the radio station, say Jean, we're here. 0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.680 He says, what do you mean you're here? Everybody's out 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:43.240 at the airport waiting for you to come in. We 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:48.120 pulled them you were Australian because we couldn't pass for British. 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:51.080 And we go to the airport. We get on a 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:56.040 small two engine plane and the taxis down to the 0:04:56.160 --> 0:05:00.360 UM airport entrance and there are kids with teddy bears 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:05.400 and jelly beans. Virginia Beach welcomes Australia, Strange loves. So 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.719 we get up on stage stone out of our minds, 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:15.680 banging the drums and the song we played was a 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:20.680 version of Bo Diddley Boom boom boom boom boom on 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:26.039 the drums. Um. People are screaming. You know, it was 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:31.760 just amazing. We get done, We drive back to UH. 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:36.280 We drive back to New York, but before we do, UH, 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:41.200 we stopped. UH. We go out that night with I 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:46.600 think it was the mayor or, the town counselor, and okay, 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:51.080 I guess this is all right for for your podcast. 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.359 It's it's not really racist. And we're sitting there and 0:05:55.480 --> 0:06:02.159 it's a bottle club because you couldn't by liquor in 0:06:02.680 --> 0:06:06.120 Virginia at that time, and it was little bottles and 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.440 we're drinking and he said, as the house it all 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:14.240 being down in Australia, great, mate, write you all, write 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:19.200 you all, and going like for faith Australian accents, and 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.400 he says, yeah, I'm so glad you boys are here. 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.039 I get some of them New York Jews coming down 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:31.600 here and and we're going write you all. Mate. Australia 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.840 is the same, you know, and got at it there 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.920 as like as we could. Um go back to New 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:42.000 York and we meet I'm at heart again and I'm 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:50.359 it is um hanging out uh with um with some 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:54.720 girls of our age that we hung out with. So 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.520 he just says, your kids are great, you as are great. 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:01.159 You you should come and use my studio. So we 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.480 pack up we go to the Atlantic Studios because by 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:08.040 this time the success of my boyfriend's back had changed 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:12.640 because now the Beatles, the Stones, the Kings though, they're 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:17.200 all coming in and as Australians we take our drums 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:21.320 to the Atlantic studios. Brue, Wait, does i'm it think 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:25.720 you're Australian? No, No, I don't know what he thought. 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.800 I mean he could have thought anything, right, I mean 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.080 I might I think thought whatever he wanted to think, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.640 you know. So we go back there and we record 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:41.040 a great version of Bo Diddley, but not not taking up, 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:44.560 but it's our beat, the boom boom, because the strange 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:48.880 was beat was enormous and at that time you had 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:53.240 to cut an ascetate, and we cut the acetate at 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.520 his studios. He says, my god, Cherry Wex has got 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.960 to hear us, brings us in and we didn't really 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:03.520 ain't know Jerry Max. Nobody was legendary by that time, 0:08:03.840 --> 0:08:07.120 you know, where the Memphis sessions and everything, and vowie, 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:10.560 Jerry's gonna listen to us and Ahmed and we're twenty 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:14.320 by then, we were twenty four maybe, and it was 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.840 still kids and puts the thing on and the first 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:21.480 thing years bowed and Luba babe, and the next thing 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:26.040 to hear is Ahmed, get these fucking kids out of 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:30.360 here before I kill him. And we're shocked. We don't 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:33.760 know what to do, and we just leave. Am It 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:40.240 comes running after us and says, uh no, no, he 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.960 gets funny sometimes like that. But you go and see 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:48.240 our friend Bert Burns, who we just started a label 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:52.640 with Bang B A n G which stood for Bert 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:59.800 ahmed Nessui Cherry and a publishing company was Web four uh, 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:04.720 meaning we've for them. Um, we go to see Bird, 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:09.600 Hey listen to it. He says, yeah, yeah, I know, Jerry. 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:13.040 He sees a couple of kids from Brooklyn and the Bronx, 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:16.760 and he's an R and B purist. He doesn't want 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.520 to hear you doing that. But what we could do, 0:09:20.760 --> 0:09:24.880 the beat that you created is so amazing. We could 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:32.120 structure a song around that beat. Hence we've started writing 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:35.840 the song. And he said, let's get a title. I 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:40.360 remember saying, well, what about that book that's been banned 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:49.680 at softcore porn candy written by Terry Southern. Well it 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:53.720 turned out to be perfect because the other book that 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:57.280 can that Terry Southern wrote that I know is famous 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:03.520 is Doctor Strange Love. Hence, there we were. We were 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:07.120 the Strange Loves went in did the song we wrote 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:10.520 together with Burt, the three of us and Bert, Bob Felman, 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:15.080 Jerry Golstein, myself, Bert Burns went to bell sound, made 0:10:15.080 --> 0:10:21.960 this layer drum and and like self sync over and 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.320 over again. Our voices kept bouncing him to make a 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.360 big sound, and Bert came up with the guitar lick, 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:36.680 which is very much like a famous song called what 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:44.960 was it called? It was Anna by Sylvano mcganno. And 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.440 I remember the guitar player that played in his name 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:51.560 was Everett Boxdale. And we got done with the record 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.200 and you think you're done. It's a four track recording, right, 0:10:54.920 --> 0:11:00.839 Well not with neurotic people like us. Because we were 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:05.319 going to be superstar producers. We start mixing it over 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.720 and over again. Four track It took us. We went 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:13.880 to uh what was the Columbia Record studios. We spent 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:21.640 four days mixing it, editing it, and then went real 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.520 to real machine to machine and added reverb on top 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.240 of it, and hence came the strange love sound. And 0:11:29.280 --> 0:11:32.160 that's the story of I Want Candy. Um it's a 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.040 long story, I know, but no, no, okay, So you 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:37.640 finished the record. Does everyone think it's going to be 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:41.160 a hit? Um? Yeah, I do, I think so. I 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:45.920 think Burt loved it. UM put it out. I'm trying 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:50.959 to think, yeah, um it came out pretty quickly after 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:53.320 we finished it. In those days, you didn't have to 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.600 plan for much. As quick as you could press it, 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:59.560 you could get it out. UM. And I'm trying to 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:04.040 think where it started. UM. I know it was huge 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:07.160 number one in Chicago and probably now that got higher 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:11.160 than nine or so on the charts. But its impact 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:15.199 was great, UM, and it led us to go on tour. Okay, 0:12:15.240 --> 0:12:19.199 before we get there, it was obviously come back two 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:23.600 decades later with bow wow Wow. My question is do 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:28.040 you get paid on I Want Candy? Oh? Yeah, we 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:32.440 we get paid very well and I Want Candy. Say, 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:34.880 but at this late date, do you still have an 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:40.240 interest in that song? Oh? Yes? As writers? UM. The 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:45.360 interesting thing that I could UM, I could share with 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:50.360 listeners who are in the business. UH. Fifty six years 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:57.880 after the initial copyright signing with a publishing company, rights 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:02.840 revert back to the writers by copyright law. The writers 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.720 then have an opportunity to do what they want with it, 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:12.640 keep it, publish it themselves, resell it to the publishing 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:18.720 company that added UM, or sell it to other individuals. 0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:22.440 Or are people out there buying copyrights and and writers 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:26.240 royalties UM and spending tremendous amounts of money for it. 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:36.160 We took advantage of that and re UM sold UM 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:40.920 both My Boyfriends Back and I Want Candy two, UM 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:46.720 sony a TV Music again and they paid handsfully for 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:51.839 it without mentioning numbers. It was significant. You maintain your 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.520 writer's share? What you are you do? Yeah? We main 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:59.760 We maintained our writer's shist. Now, you could also sell 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:05.040 those writer chairs if one wanted to. I don't have to, 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.200 and I don't really want to at the moment, but 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:12.360 who knows what life where death brings us? Okay, very 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.840 very specifically, did you license to them or did you 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:22.960 literally sell the songs out right? No? You you resign 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:29.480 with them as the publishers UM. But they have to 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.240 pay for it at this point because they're there or 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.920 other successful songs. They people do the same thing with 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:41.840 UM and we maintain they they account to us for 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:45.800 writers royalties are writers share? So in a sense in 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:53.880 that instance, you're you're selling signing away UM of the 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:58.440 basic amount of money that comes in UM, and it 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:01.800 was it was worth it, know, But the Bow Wow 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:12.240 Row record and then what's his name, UM, Aaron Carter? Yeah? UM, 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.640 but the song itself. It's what's interesting about it is 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:21.040 when you see something that's fifty and sixty fifty years 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:26.080 old or almost sixty years um and you said cross generations, 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.400 and it's the same with my boyfriends back. It's almost 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:38.040 not logical, but there's something that's eternal about about those 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:42.560 the simplicity of them. They be filled. Basically, you could 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:47.680 go to his cvs and there's pumpkins and dogs that 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:52.160 you could buy, and you press and it goes, I'm 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:56.720 a candy or or a rich or something like that. 0:15:57.440 --> 0:16:03.760 You know, or you could you could buy on the internet. Uh, 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:10.120 the Hess truck that comes back every Christmas. Uh and 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:13.960 goes the Hess trucks back and it's got the most 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:19.000 amazing thing. So commercials UTIs in movies. These are things 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:23.600 we never considered where we're kids writing these songs. Another 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:25.840 one I'd bring up as far as commercials, which is 0:16:25.920 --> 0:16:30.720 interesting of course it to me, it's mind boggling. So 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:38.200 if you watch regular television, it's full of commercials for um, 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:42.040 not narcotics, but drugs you could buy for diabetes, for this, 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:48.920 and on comes a commercial for a diabetes medication. We 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.640 got the beat, We got the beat, and I'm thinking, 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:59.080 what what a punk girl group that sank? We got 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.400 the beat? You know, it's not my song, it's it's 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:07.520 Charlotte's song. Uh. But when you hear that, it just 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:13.679 it just tells you that songs, that the song is 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:17.520 a thing that's most valuable about this business. Okay, So 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.680 where were you? Where are you? Were you born? Whould 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.399 you grow up? I grew up in the Bronx. And 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:27.080 what did your father mother do for a living? Oh? 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.840 My father and mother had various jobs. But the one 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.320 thing when I was going to junior high school they 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:39.000 had which was amazing. They had a bakery. They don't 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:40.240 know what they knew about it, but it was a 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.720 wholesale bakery where they've brought things in. But in the back, 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:48.919 in the back, they had three bakers, some old Russian 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:52.320 German guy you know who take me in the back 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:57.400 and say it was my first experience as a very 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:02.159 young kid. Do you know girls are very cool? Did you? 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.000 If you want to, if you want to see what 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.200 it feels like, riget press on the dough here, it's 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:13.320 just like the beautiful girl's breast. So are you talking? 0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:17.320 This is free bam mitzvah, Right, you're talking like ten 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:23.199 years old, right, And I, oh wow, and so so 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:29.320 I remember this ship. It's really stupid. But these things, 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.280 these things lead to other things. And I would be 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.400 serious now it's not that it leads to the experience 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:40.280 of the breast, but but things that people tell you 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:47.000 um lead to other things that you don't think you're 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:50.240 gonna pay dividends. It's like when when we were doing 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.600 I Want Candy and other things. I was in the studio. 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.320 I get kind of weird in those days in the 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.520 studio and the drama. Herbie Lavell was his name, a 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.840 brilliant drummer who worked with us all the time, comes 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:07.200 over and said, Richard, uh, you don't look so good. 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:12.679 Are you having fun? And I said, yeah, sure, and 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:14.720 he said I don't think so. He said, but let 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:18.280 me tell you something. This is about fun. If you're 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:22.480 not enjoying it, get out and do something else, you know. 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.760 I never forgot that, you know, And and it made 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:27.760 me think of something else. I mean, you want to 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:30.560 go in that line? Another thing I never forgot. Two 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:35.280 things Alan Freed. Alan Freed is where I first heard 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.280 rock and roll kid Transistor Radio, the same kid that 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:44.240 was touching the dough and uh, doing this stuff, and 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.960 two things I remember that kept me into business. He 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:53.200 played a ricket called Hearts made of Stone. Hearts made 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:58.760 of stone, You don't have a brave drake, And then 0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.320 I said no, no, no no no no no no 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.920 no no no no no no no no no. Everybody knows. 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.359 And then he takes the record off and says, the 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:12.600 first ten people took call up and tell me how 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:17.240 many times they said no. So I never forgot that. 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.480 And the other thing about Alan Freed. He plays his 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:25.960 record that was great, and then he goes, kids, that 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:30.720 sounds great, right, waits a second and then goes, it 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.840 will never be a hit. It doesn't have a sacks break. 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:39.119 I remember that you could. So what I remembered is okay, 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.960 maybe not a sacks break, maybe not a guitar break, 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:47.080 maybe a rap maybe something else. He meant it wasn't finished. 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.560 And the last thing, that's the most touching thing. And 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.719 it's strange because I talked to Paul Simon once about 0:20:54.760 --> 0:21:00.679 it and he wrote a song about it. Um and um. 0:21:00.720 --> 0:21:04.119 He had the same experience. Uh, you're listening to radio 0:21:04.480 --> 0:21:07.800 transistor radio and your pill you're in junior high school 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:12.600 or freshman high school, so you're anywhere between thirteen and fifteen, 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:19.920 right and on the radio comes. I looked at the clock, 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:23.879 at the face on the wall, and and maybe it 0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.199 was that could have been pledging by love. And the 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:31.679 whole thing goes and all of a sudden, he said, kids, 0:21:32.920 --> 0:21:35.760 we're gonna have three minutes of silence. The radio is 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:42.720 gonna go dead. Johnny As is dead. And you're just 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:47.840 fucking shocked. You're shocked, you're mesmerized. You're just sitting there. 0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:55.320 And the next thing you hear is whoever my dollar? Hello? 0:21:55.520 --> 0:22:01.439 It YouTube. You hear his voice, and that made me 0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.919 stay in the business. That may get into the business, 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.320 but made me stay. I remember it. I remember it 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:10.840 when I get down and when I think, you know, 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.719 I can't do that. You know what I remember is 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:20.200 that that these are things you you that have impact 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:23.960 and effect the other things you do. And that's what 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.760 makes the music come to life, or that's what made 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:33.240 music come to life for me. Remembering all this stuff. Uh, 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.359 it's just the little things people tell you, not the 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:41.840 big moments, the little things. Okay, you're going to school, 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:45.520 good student, life of the party, isolated, What kind of 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:49.600 kid were you? Um, yeah, I was. I used to 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:54.040 have a band recalled ourselves as Sultan's a Swing after 0:22:54.080 --> 0:22:58.200 the Benny Goodman, and we would play mostly at the 0:22:58.400 --> 0:23:01.600 y m h A. But what made our band great 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:07.440 was now, remember this is nineteen fifty something. We had 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:11.520 a saxophone. I played the piano, but eventually got vibes 0:23:11.720 --> 0:23:14.679 because I wanted to stand in the front, So I 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:18.560 played the keyboards. And we had a drummer, a trumpet player, 0:23:19.800 --> 0:23:24.679 and a guitar player. This is when rockabilly would just 0:23:24.880 --> 0:23:27.680 come in. You know, rockabilly was in, but in New 0:23:27.760 --> 0:23:31.119 York it wasn't guitar driven. So we had a guitar 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:36.440 player and we would play and uh, I played high 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:40.440 school dances. We'd played the Catskill Mountains, you know that 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:46.000 kind of thing. Uh, cocka lanes, bungalow colonies. Let's go 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:50.640 back before that. Was there music in the house. Yes, 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:56.159 I was trained as a classical piano player. My mother insisted, 0:23:56.280 --> 0:24:01.960 like old Jewish mothers, you get a lessons, absolutely, get up, 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:04.639 you get a profession, and you're five years old. You 0:24:04.760 --> 0:24:08.600 played a piano. Absolutely yeah. But they got an old 0:24:08.680 --> 0:24:13.840 Russian teacher and i'd be playing God forbid I hit 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:16.880 a wrong note. I don't know about you. She had 0:24:16.880 --> 0:24:22.439 a ruler every time I hit ayno duck smack. So 0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:27.399 I gave up. I sort of gave up a classgow. 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:30.520 I started listening to if all things, if you could 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:36.919 believe it, Glenn Miller, Um, uh, Benny Goodman when he 0:24:36.960 --> 0:24:41.959 had what's his name Lionel not Lionel Hampton, and uh 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:47.879 Teddy got his name now, um the piano playing, and 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:51.560 I think, I'm not sure. I think Big Joe, Big 0:24:51.640 --> 0:24:54.080 Joe Burner. But one of them used to sing some 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:58.600 real serious blues and I got into the blues and 0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:00.879 they did some sort of Saint His blues, and I 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.520 learned to play boogie piano and play that stuff. And 0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:09.480 that led me to um to, to thinking I could 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:14.239 do this and understanding the concept of the blues and 0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:20.360 writing songs. So when Elvis Presley happened, I liked him. 0:25:20.400 --> 0:25:24.240 But the one I really liked was Jerry Lee Jerry 0:25:24.280 --> 0:25:28.439 Lee Lewis. So as a kid, I'm popping away and 0:25:28.480 --> 0:25:32.560 I decide, after great bowls of Fire, I could write 0:25:32.600 --> 0:25:35.840 songs like that. So I write this song called I'm 0:25:35.880 --> 0:25:39.320 on Fire and it was a cool song. Help I'll 0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:42.920 help Mr Fireman please. I'm a burning from my head 0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:45.880 to my knees. I'm a flame with such a burning desire. 0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:50.399 Of course, had no idea what desire was. I'm like 0:25:50.480 --> 0:25:58.560 a flaming cup. I'm gonna burning up. Yeah, I'm on fire. Okay, 0:25:58.040 --> 0:26:05.359 I write the song of sixty fifteen and forget about it. Bob, 0:26:05.440 --> 0:26:08.080 Jerry and I we shared everything, so we threw our 0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:12.479 songs together. And after my boyfriend's back, which was on 0:26:12.640 --> 0:26:18.479 Smash um uh, we get invited to a conference because 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:21.520 people wanted to meet us because Smash was the label. 0:26:22.119 --> 0:26:25.640 Get there, they say, you know you got any songs 0:26:25.680 --> 0:26:32.520 for Jerry Lewis he We just signed him as and 0:26:32.600 --> 0:26:35.920 he's making he's going country, but we want to do 0:26:36.480 --> 0:26:41.800 his last rock and roll out a few songs. Sure, 0:26:42.600 --> 0:26:46.280 he was there. I played him myself. I played him 0:26:46.280 --> 0:26:50.439 by the piano. I'm on fire. He does it, it 0:26:50.560 --> 0:26:55.280 comes out. It's one of the main songs in the movie. Uh, 0:26:55.920 --> 0:26:59.960 Jerry Lee Rik Boles of fire. Uh, and he became. 0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:02.760 I's a hit of course in England and a minor 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:07.200 hit here. Okay, but you're in you're in school. Are 0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:10.600 you a popular kid, or you're a good student. I 0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:16.040 was an average student. Um, but I had no choice. 0:27:16.080 --> 0:27:18.640 I couldn't start in the music business. Yet I had 0:27:18.640 --> 0:27:23.679 to go to college. So I was able to pass 0:27:23.720 --> 0:27:27.560 through whatever it is uh s A T S. And 0:27:27.960 --> 0:27:30.960 I was accepted to a school called a Delphi. It's 0:27:30.960 --> 0:27:34.840 a garden city, Long Island. And but I go there 0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:39.119 and I'm done with all this rock and roll garbage. 0:27:39.560 --> 0:27:44.680 I've listening to jazz. I'm going to be an educated guy, 0:27:45.480 --> 0:27:48.920 and uh this stuff is it is for kids. M 0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:55.520 uh So again, I'm still an average student. Um, but 0:27:55.840 --> 0:27:58.240 I did all right in university in some class. So 0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:05.280 you graduate. I graduate from high school, UM named William 0:28:05.320 --> 0:28:09.760 Howard Taft and that was in the Bronx. Okay, but 0:28:09.840 --> 0:28:11.760 then you go to a Delphi. Did you graduate from 0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:16.160 a Delphi? I did graduate from a DOLPHI and I 0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:20.440 went on to Brooklyn Law School because golf a bit, 0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:26.720 I would never profession um. But the problem was that 0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:31.879 I still wanted to write songs. So on the way 0:28:31.920 --> 0:28:36.480 coming down on the D train from the Bronx, there 0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:41.680 were stops at Seventh Avenue fifty second Street, and you 0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:44.680 could get off where you could keep going and circle 0:28:44.720 --> 0:28:50.320 around to Brooklyn and get out and go to the school. Well, 0:28:50.560 --> 0:28:54.480 I started going to Brooklyn Law School, and I went 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:57.680 for about a year, but only half of the time 0:28:57.720 --> 0:29:01.040 did I attend classes because I would get off the 0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:06.720 train at seventh Avenue, which was fifty Street, fifty one Street, 0:29:07.280 --> 0:29:14.880 N Street, the Brill Building six fifty Broadway. UM the 0:29:14.960 --> 0:29:22.560 place where young songwriter. Young songwriters were gathering with old songwriters. 0:29:22.600 --> 0:29:28.880 But just like today, the independent record companies, publishing companies, 0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:36.280 we're looking for young people between eighteen and twenty two, 0:29:36.880 --> 0:29:40.160 sixteen and twenty two, that's where Carol King, Jerry Goffrid 0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:48.640 A Barry Man, Cynthia uh, Howie Greenfield, Neil Sadaka. If 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:52.560 all these names mean anything to anybody anymore, I know, 0:29:52.720 --> 0:29:57.600