1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, we have some exciting news to share. ABC 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: News Studios has turned Caroline Brega's story from Betrayal season 3 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: four into a docu series. You'll get to meet the 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: people involved, You'll hear from people who have never spoken before, 5 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: and you get to see where this story took place. 6 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: We are so proud and excited to share it with 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: you all. Stream Betrayal Dirty Secrets now on Hulu or 8 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: Hulu for Disney Plus. Hey, guys, Before we get into 9 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: the episode, a quick note. We're looking for news stories 10 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: of betrayal for our weekly Betrayal series, which returns in August. 11 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: If you've experienced betrayal and feel ready to share your story, 12 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: now is a great time to reach out. Email us 13 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 1: at Betrayal Pod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. 15 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: He would come in before he worked out and said hi, 16 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: but the only reason he was there was so that 17 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: everyone could say, well, he was there working out, but 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: he was there for the sole purpose to take a 19 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 2: shower after his lunchtime activities. 20 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm Andrea Gunning and this is Betrayal Season four, episode six, 21 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: Circling the Drain. In the last episode of betrayal. You 22 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: heard Caroline describe her final meeting with Joel in twenty 23 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: twenty two. They met to discuss issues surrounding their impending divorce. 24 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: The location was a coffee shop they had frequented when 25 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: they were a couple. After more than two months at 26 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: an inpatient rehab, Joel looked like a different person. Gone 27 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: was the clean cut cop she had lived with for 28 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: more than twenty years. Caroline barely recognized him. His cell 29 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: phone panged relentlessly during their meeting with messages from dating apps. 30 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: Joel's behavior hadn't changed, he just didn't need to hide 31 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: it anymore. As far as Caroline was concerned, the relationship 32 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: was beyond repair. And as you heard in previous episodes, 33 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: their son had already made up his mind too. But 34 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: Caroline wanted Nicole, their daughter, to make her own decision 35 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: about a relationship with her father. 36 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 3: If she wanted to try to have a relationship with him, 37 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 3: and he was open to that, I wanted that for her. 38 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: At the time, Nicole was the only one in their 39 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: family still grappling with whether to have a relationship with Joel. 40 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 4: When that first happened, I just couldn't believe the depth 41 00:02:55,919 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 4: of the lies that he told us, or integrate all 42 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 4: of his actions just as one person and as him. 43 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: Nicole was entering her senior year of high school and 44 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: it was just her and Caroline at home. 45 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: In September, Labor Day weekend. Our daughter and I decided 46 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 3: that we were going to get away for the weekend 47 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 3: and we were going to go visit my best friend 48 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 3: who lives in New Mexico. And as we're on our drive, 49 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 3: it's about a six hour drive, this text comes through 50 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 3: and it's from Joel and it's probably two to three 51 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 3: screens long. 52 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: He'd sent it to both Caroline and Nicole in a 53 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: group chat. 54 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 3: And it just says, I just want you guys to 55 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 3: know I love you more than anything in the world. 56 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 3: I think about your mother and you guys every day. 57 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 3: I regret my stupid actions. I hope that we can 58 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: be a family. And our daughter was just devastated by 59 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 3: this text. 60 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: Joel was saying he wanted to be a family, but 61 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: his actions showed otherwise. 62 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 5: And so I tried calling him, Yeah, he didn't responds. 63 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 3: And then she goes to call him again, and this 64 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 3: time you could tell he put her to voicemail, and 65 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 3: so I said, maybe he is at work. 66 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: Caroline just couldn't bear to see Nicole in so much pain. 67 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 3: She wants to connect with him and he doesn't answer. 68 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,559 Speaker 5: Nicole was holding out hope he still holds this sort 69 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 5: of grass on me. 70 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: Nicole and Caroline arrived in New Mexico for a much 71 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: needed visit with Caroline's best friend, Deborah. We met her 72 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: in an earlier episode, and Deborah could see Nicole was hurting. 73 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,479 Speaker 6: I felt like she really struggled because she was a 74 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:02,279 Speaker 6: daddy's girl. She was trying to weigh out do I 75 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 6: want to still have a relationship with my dad. 76 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 3: The next day, my best friend, her husband, me my 77 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 3: daughter were facetiming with my son who is in college 78 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: on the East Coast, and we start just reminiscing and 79 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 3: going down memory lane, and my son says, oh, I 80 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 3: remember this picture. I got to pull this picture up. 81 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,239 Speaker 3: He's real silent, and then all of a sudden, he says, Mama, 82 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 3: could you take me off speakerphone and just talk to me? 83 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 3: And so I said, well, what's going on? And so 84 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 3: he gets very serious and he said, please just take 85 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 3: me off speakerphone. I just want to talk to you. 86 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 3: And so I excuse myself, And I said, is everything okay? 87 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 3: And he said no. 88 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: Their son told Caroline that she needed to look at 89 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: their shared family photovault. Joel was still uploading pictures to 90 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: the cloud. 91 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,159 Speaker 3: When I pull it up, there is just picture after 92 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: picture of women on a beach. You can clearly tell 93 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 3: they have no idea how they're being photographed. 94 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: Immediately, Caroline went to Deborah and showed her what her 95 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 1: son had seen. 96 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 6: It's just pictures of girls in their bikinis. Some of 97 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,799 Speaker 6: them are zoomed in on their butts or their crotch. 98 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 6: You know that the women don't know because they're either 99 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 6: laying down and their face is on the opposite end, 100 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 6: or you know, he's behind them when they're walking. There 101 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 6: was one girl I remember she was walking with her boyfriend. 102 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 6: She was hand in hand with a boy and he 103 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 6: was taking pictures of her butt. 104 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 1: Joel had gone to the beach and secretly photographed women. 105 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: He zoomed in on parts of their bodies, all while 106 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,839 Speaker 1: telling his family he was committed to change. 107 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 3: And I am mortified, mortified that my son is seeing this. 108 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 3: His frantic responds to me, is you got to delete this. 109 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 3: Get off of here, Get it off of this, and 110 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: I go to call Joel and he doesn't answer, and 111 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 3: then I'm trying to figure out how to get a 112 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: hold of him, and I'm texting him what I'm seeing. 113 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: The photos were right there in the vault for the 114 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: entire family to access. Joel was indulging himself with no 115 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,600 Speaker 1: thought about the fact that his kids could see these pictures. 116 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: And there weren't just photos of women. There was also 117 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: a photo of Joel out at a bar in California. 118 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: By his side is a fellow CSPD officer, a buddy 119 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: who must have come out to visit. In the photo, 120 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 1: they were out at a bar, smiling and holding up beers, 121 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: having fun. Meanwhile his family was falling apart. 122 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 3: I mean, it just appears that he treated this inpatient 123 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 3: rehab facility as a glorified frat house, not as a 124 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 3: therapeutic opportunity. 125 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 5: This was just kind of a retreat for him, little 126 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 5: vacation away from Colorado and the mess that he created. 127 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: Joel finally responded to Caroline's text, saying he didn't realize 128 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: he was still sharing the digital photo vault. 129 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 3: We had extremely minimal contact, but after I found out 130 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 3: about the pictures, I told him, we can't even share 131 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 3: a phone account together. It was almost comical. I thought 132 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 3: to myself, you're not even safe to have a Netflix 133 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 3: account with. 134 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 7: That. 135 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 3: Next day, I went out and I put the kids 136 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 3: and I on a separate phone plan. 137 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 1: She acted quickly. All she wanted was to shield the 138 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: kids from these images. 139 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 3: I was so frantic. I am at my best friend's home. 140 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 3: I'm not even home, and my immediate concern was to 141 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 3: make sure that we are completely separate from him. 142 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 1: So she asked Joel to delete the shared account, and 143 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: he did, but in the rush, Caroline didn't say all 144 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: the old family photos. 145 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: Which I mean sounds a little cheesy, but you know 146 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 3: now I don't have the kid's baby pictures or video 147 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 3: of my dad's celebration of life. All of that was 148 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 3: on our shared account. There was just no way I 149 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 3: could chance the kids and I continuously seeing these types 150 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 3: of pictures and images that he took. 151 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: And just being able to view those photos felt like 152 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: a liability. Before she separated their phones and photos, Caroline 153 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: noticed something else in Joel's cloud pictures. 154 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 3: There's one woman repeatedly then pictures very recently. 155 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: It looked like Joel was already in a new relationship. 156 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: Caroline texted him to ask who the woman was. 157 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 3: He says that he met someone while he was in rehab. 158 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 3: She lived in Puerto Rico, and they had decided to meet. 159 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 1: Caroline and thought back to the text she and Nicole 160 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: received a few days earlier while they were driving to 161 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 1: New Mexico, when he said he do anything to repair 162 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: their relationship. 163 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 3: And so the truth is revealed that he sends this 164 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 3: text begging the kids and I that he wants to 165 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 3: be a family again, and he's so sorry. But the 166 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 3: fact of the matter is he was sending it well, 167 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 3: he was already with a female he met online. And 168 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 3: so it just kind of became this awareness in that 169 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 3: moment for everyone, but specifically our daughter, that whenever he 170 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 3: reached out really trying and wanting to be a part 171 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 3: of our lives, it was always a way to mast 172 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 3: and disguise the fact that he was doing just the 173 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 3: opposite of what he was saying. 174 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: Nicole noticed the same pattern. 175 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 5: He reaches out, sends my brother and I a text 176 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 5: message when he knows that we're going to find out 177 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 5: something pretty soon. 178 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: Dawn is a friend of Caroline's and was also her 179 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: divorce attorney. She mentioned earlier in the series that she 180 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: doesn't usually represent friends, but she made an exception for 181 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: Caroline out of concern for the kids who she knew well. 182 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: John saw the impact of Joel's absence on Nicole. 183 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 8: To see Nicole really struggle to not see her dad 184 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 8: or have that relationship anymore. It was just so jarring 185 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 8: to her. She still desired that relationship, but Joel really 186 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 8: just pulled completely away. 187 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: Jen Forrester and her husband Tom are among Caroline's closest friends. 188 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:51,880 Speaker 1: Jen also was disappointed that Joel didn't try harder. The 189 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: fact that he kind of just gave up was really surprising. 190 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: He hasn't tried to repair the relationship, and frankly, as 191 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: a parent, why would you give up? I would never 192 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: give up on my kids. 193 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 9: I would say I'm still here for you, I still 194 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,680 Speaker 9: love you, I will always be here for you. 195 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 5: How can you know that your child is out there 196 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 5: and not want to be around your child or like 197 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 5: know what's happening with them. 198 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: Nicole thought Joel would at the very least try to 199 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: connect for the big moments, the milestones. 200 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 3: And everything that Joel did. One of the hardest days 201 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 3: was her graduation. You know, I left that morning because 202 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 3: I wanted to get a lay necklace for her to wear. 203 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 3: I wanted to get her favorite coffee and have it 204 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 3: waiting for her when she woke up. And when I 205 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 3: came home, she was already up and there was this 206 00:12:54,120 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: envelope taped to our front door, and her little face, 207 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 3: Oh god, it just kills me. She just had this 208 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 3: desperation in her face, like she just was hoping for it, 209 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 3: and she said, oh, my gosh, is that from my dad. 210 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 1: On the morning of Nichole's high school graduation, Caroline found 211 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: her daughter staring at an envelope that had been left 212 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:42,400 Speaker 1: on their front door. 213 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 3: She just had this desperation in her face, like she 214 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 3: just was hoping for it, and she said, oh my gosh, 215 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 3: is that from my dad? And I said I don't know. 216 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 3: And when I handed it to her and she saw 217 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 3: that it was signed by our neighbors, God, it was 218 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: one of the worst things to ever see. It was horrible. 219 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 3: You just saw her completely deflate this day that she 220 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 3: had just worked so hard to celebrate. She just didn't 221 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 3: recover from that day. You just saw her with this 222 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 3: solemn expression and just deflated every time she opened the 223 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 3: door just a little bit, another lie would come up, 224 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:36,280 Speaker 3: you know. On her graduation that night, she wanted to 225 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 3: go out to some parties with some of her friends, 226 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 3: and before she left, she said, I'm going to text 227 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 3: my dad and I said, okay, that's completely your decision. 228 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 3: I wanted her to continue that contact, and she sent 229 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 3: just the most simplistic text and just said I graduated today, 230 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 3: that's it. And he took wild to respond and then 231 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 3: eventually said, oh, I know, I'm so proud of you. 232 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,600 Speaker 3: But minutes later, I get this rage text from him, 233 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 3: blaming me for not reminding him. And you just saw 234 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 3: her pining after just this hope, like just be different. 235 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: It wasn't just Nicole who was in pain. Caroline's friends 236 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: watched her suffering too. Joel wasn't around anymore, but every 237 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: few weeks a new secret was revealed. Here's Caroline's friend Jen. 238 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 9: There was an incident where Caroline had gotten a text 239 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 9: message from someone. This person had basically told her about 240 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 9: a friend of Caroline's who had been intimately involved with Joel. 241 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 9: And that was a rough day. You'd see her start 242 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 9: to heal, she relaxed. You'd see her start to move forward, 243 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 9: and then something else would happen, And this was one 244 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,840 Speaker 9: of those instances, like it's not just taking two steps 245 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 9: forward and one step back. Every time something came up. 246 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 9: It just ripped the band aid off again. 247 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: As people in the community learned about Joel and caroline separation, 248 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: they felt more inclined to contact Caroline with details of 249 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: Joel's affairs. It felt like every day she learned of 250 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: new affairs that had been going on right under her nose, 251 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: sometimes for years. He had a long term affair with 252 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: a hairstylist. He sent inappropriate texts to a local college 253 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: professor who Caroline worked with. He'd had sex with an 254 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: insurance agent, a prison guard, a nurse. Caroline was re 255 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: traumatized every single time. With each new revelation, her entire 256 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: life was turned into community gossip around town, in the 257 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: halls of the Colorado Springs Police Department, and even at work. 258 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: Caroline's not a cop, but she does work in law enforcement. 259 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: Her job requires her to interact with police officers all 260 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: the time. 261 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 3: They come into my place of employment and I have 262 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 3: to pass them, I have to interact with them. I 263 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 3: see them on elevators, I see them in the hallway. Meanwhile, 264 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 3: I've heard the snickering. There's been blatant comments said back 265 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 3: and forth in front of me, where they know I'm 266 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 3: an earshot. I was humiliated to walk into work knowing 267 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 3: that rumors were starting to fly and spread about what 268 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 3: he had done. 269 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: Caroline had to face the consequences of Joel's actions every day, 270 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,080 Speaker 1: and so did the kids. They continue to find out 271 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: new information, and instead of letting themselves be surprised or 272 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: hear it through a third party, they wanted to control 273 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,719 Speaker 1: how and when they heard things. Really, it was the 274 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,680 Speaker 1: only thing they had control over. Here's their son. 275 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 10: I wanted to know everything, complete transparency. If someone were 276 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 10: to say that my mom shared too much, I think 277 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:16,080 Speaker 10: that'd just be continuing this deception. I'd rather find out 278 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 10: for my mom so we wouldn't be blindsided randomly in 279 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 10: the community. Nobody would want that. The truth hurt, but 280 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 10: it was powerful. 281 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 11: And it was needed. 282 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 10: That was the only way to move forward. 283 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: The rumors were inescapable. Caroline's friend Jen recalls a day 284 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: Caroline received particularly hurtful news about Joel. She couldn't even 285 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: talk to anyone about it. It was too much. 286 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 9: I think emotionally the anger, the hurt, the sadness, all 287 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 9: comes back. I mean, she spent four days in bed 288 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 9: reliving all of it. She basically said, don't come over. 289 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 9: I don't want to see anybody. I cannot deal with 290 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 9: anything right. So Tom and I dropped off dinner on 291 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 9: her doorstep. You know, hey, we're here for you if 292 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 9: you need us. 293 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: All her grief, heartbreak, shame, and humiliation was unfair. Joel 294 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: was able to leave, and she was left with so 295 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:29,479 Speaker 1: much destruction when all she did was love and trust 296 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: her husband. All of this got me thinking about consequences justice. Really, 297 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: you're going to hear different perspectives on what consequences mean 298 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: throughout this episode, but I wanted to start with Caroline. 299 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: What would justice feel like for her? Turns out, it's 300 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: pretty simple. 301 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,640 Speaker 3: It would feel fantastic to be able to walk into 302 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 3: professional meetings, to be able to walk into my own unemployment, 303 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 3: to be able to be in the community and not 304 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: have copsleep think can make blowjob comments next to me. 305 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: She doesn't want to feel like the butt of a joke, 306 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: and she wants the support of the people at Joel's job, 307 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 1: people she has supported for two decades. 308 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 3: On a very very personal note. You know the people 309 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,679 Speaker 3: who surrounded him at his profession. The deputy chief is 310 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 3: my son's godfather. I have not heard one word from him. 311 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 3: And the mix of all of this, I have not 312 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 3: heard one word from any of the people who my 313 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 3: kids and I were ever there for them in their 314 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 3: time of need. Not one person has reached out to say, 315 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 3: are you and the kids okay? Not one. 316 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 1: Joel was able to walk away from the mess without 317 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: being terminated. Why because instead of being fired, he retired. 318 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: In an earlier episode, you heard Joel meet with his boss, 319 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: Commander Jeff Strassner. This was at the conclusion of Joel's 320 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: internal affairs investigation for having sex in his police car 321 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: while on duty. Strawsner found conclusively that Joel had violated 322 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: five Colorado Springs Police Department policies, including departing from the 323 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: truth lying. He let Joel know he was going to 324 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: recommend him for termination. 325 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 3: The legislative intent is very clear that we cannot allow 326 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 3: peace officers remain employed when they lied during an ia investigation. 327 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: Joel's career as a cop would be over. The department 328 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: set another meeting for two weeks later to make it 329 00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: all final, but that meeting never occurred, because instead of 330 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: facing termination, Joel chose a path that ensured he'd never 331 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 1: hear the words you're fired. He retired, and just like that, 332 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,800 Speaker 1: his work problems vanished. A letter about his pending termination 333 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,880 Speaker 1: was replaced by an email congratulating him on his decades 334 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 1: of service, just days after his meeting with Commander Strassner. 335 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: How did this happen? Well, our team has been investigating it, 336 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,320 Speaker 1: and the first thing we discovered is that this happens 337 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: all the time. Dan, a former CSPD officer, said it's 338 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,920 Speaker 1: common for cops under investigation to retire. 339 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 12: Honestly, I was surprised he didn't retire like the day 340 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 12: this came to light. I figured if he knew that 341 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 12: this was true and knew how it could end, I'm 342 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 12: truly surprised that it just wasn't happened immediately. 343 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:51,439 Speaker 1: It appears that Joel waited until after the meeting with 344 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: Internal Affairs and Commander Strawsner, when he knew for certain 345 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 1: they were onto him and there was no talking his 346 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: way out of it. But before before he officially left 347 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: the CSPD, he took FMLA or family medical leave, and 348 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: went off to rehab, where his sexual escapades only continued. 349 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 1: In taking FMLA, Joel stretched his time. 350 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 12: I hate to save it. When some guys are circling 351 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 12: the drain in their career and getting ready to get fired, 352 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 12: they will drag it out as long as possible because 353 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 12: they're collecting a paycheck and they might as well as 354 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 12: long as they can. And it irks you when you're 355 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 12: sitting up there knowing that we're paying somebody that is 356 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 12: more than likely going to get fired and did some 357 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 12: pretty bad stuff. 358 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,239 Speaker 1: We also found this troubling. Joel had sex in his 359 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: police car on the taxpayer's dime, and his consequences amounted 360 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: into an early retirement. A handshake and a pat on 361 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: the back. We contacted Jeff Strassner about it via email. 362 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: He's now the chief of another police department in Colorado. 363 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: He pointed out that retirement is managed by a separate agent. 364 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,199 Speaker 1: Here's some of that email. 365 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,399 Speaker 13: As I am sure you are aware, he retired prior 366 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 13: to discipline, and retirement is a process managed by the 367 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 13: Colorado Fire Police Pension Association. The department has no control 368 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 13: if someone decides to retire prior to the execution of discipline, 369 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 13: and does not have the authority to intervene in the 370 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 13: retirement process. It is common for retirement eligible officers who 371 00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 13: see the writing on the wall to decide to retire 372 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 13: rather than go through the termination process. 373 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: The police department wasn't about to interfere with the pension association. 374 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: They don't have the power to. It seems like once 375 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: Joel chose to retire and took medical leave, he became untouchable. 376 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: It turns out we weren't the first to investigate this 377 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: pattern at the CSPD. 378 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 14: I'm Carly Rose. I'm a multimedia journalist at Rocky Mountain PBS. 379 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 1: Carle reports on the criminal justice system and Colorado. I 380 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: sat down with her when I was in Colorado Springs. 381 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: Her team uncovered some alarming patterns among Colorado cops, which 382 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: we'll get to in a moment, but first I wanted 383 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: to share one case that tipped her team off to 384 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:15,120 Speaker 1: a larger problem. 385 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 14: Alexander Canoyer was a police officer for the Colorado Springs 386 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 14: Department and he resigned while under investigation. In twenty twelve. 387 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: Canoyer was caught having a sexual relationship with the subject 388 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: of a criminal investigation. He left wall under investigation, and 389 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,080 Speaker 1: that was perfectly legal, but he was never decertified, meaning 390 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: he could still work as a cop in Colorado. 391 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:45,360 Speaker 14: Then he was hired at the Cripple Creek Police Department 392 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 14: and that's where he met Kelly Davis. 393 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: Davis came into the department to report a possible crime, 394 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: but then Canoya started doing exactly what he did back 395 00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: in Colorado Springs. He started messaging her daily and the 396 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: messages became sexual. 397 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 14: Him, being the police officer, had the power in this situation. 398 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: Kelly Davis eventually reported Canoyer and he was charged with 399 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,160 Speaker 1: sexual misconduct. But all of this may have been prevented 400 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: if he'd been terminated and decertified back in Colorado Springs. 401 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 14: He had already done it another department and was caught 402 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 14: for in a sense in being investigated, but then he 403 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 14: left and was able to go to a different department 404 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 14: and victimize another woman. 405 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: Conoyer walked away from the CSPD and went on to 406 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,400 Speaker 1: another department. The heat from his first IA investigation did 407 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: nothing to deter him from future misconduct. It didn't Detergil either. 408 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: After he admitted to sexual harassment in twenty nineteen, he 409 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: got little more than a write up, and we all 410 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: know what happened next. Carly and her team wanted to 411 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 1: understand how often officers were avoiding termination in cases like this, 412 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,119 Speaker 1: so they looked at something called the post database. 413 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,439 Speaker 14: It's a public database of the certifications of these officers, 414 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 14: as well as certain actions against them, like resignations or terminations, 415 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 14: or if they were under investigation. One thing that really 416 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 14: stood out was this action that was titled resignation in 417 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 14: lieu of termination and then also resignation while under investigation. 418 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 14: We were like, oh, people can resign rather than face 419 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 14: the consequences of an investigation. 420 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain PBS reported the story in April twenty twenty four. 421 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,439 Speaker 1: At the time of their reporting, there were one hundred 422 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: and fifty eight cases in the database in which officers 423 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: had either resigned in lieu of termination or while under investigation, and. 424 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 14: Then about one hundred and twenty had been terminated. 425 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: Instead of being held accountable, more officers took the option 426 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 1: to walk away, and Joel was one of them. In 427 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: reporting the season, we've thought a lot about early warning signs, 428 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 1: moments when Joel's behavior could have been stopped. Along the way. 429 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: There were people who raised the alarm on Joel, like 430 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 1: the reporter back in twenty nineteen. Back then, Joel Kern 431 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: was up for the job of public Information Officer at 432 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: the CSPD. The reporter came forward to warn the department 433 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: that Joel was a problem. While he had served in 434 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 1: that role temporarily, he had asked her and other reporters 435 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: to use what'sapp to communicate, and after some hedging during 436 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: an internal affairs investigation, he eventually admitted to sexual harassment. 437 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 15: I would say that there was a degree of flirtation 438 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 15: going on, and then the sexual innuendo is how I 439 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 15: would classify it. 440 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 16: Were you trying to get more friendlier with those two, 441 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 16: maybe hoping it might go somewhere. 442 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 15: I think if I was honest with myself for then 443 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 15: I would say, yeah, that would be an. 444 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: A curious statement. Joel was written up and took himself 445 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: out of the running for the job. He wasn't suspended 446 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: or demoted. To us, it felt like there wasn't much 447 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: of a consequence, but not everyone agrees with that assessment. 448 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 7: I'm well, Hilse. I'm a lawyer who practices out of Portland, Oregon. 449 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 7: I have represented law enforcement labor organizations for about forty 450 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 7: five years. 451 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: Will has worked on countless disciplinary proceedings, and when it 452 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: comes to Joel's harassment case, he thinks the department did 453 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 1: the best they could with the information they had at 454 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: the time. After all, Joel said all the right things. 455 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 7: It always helps an employee to come in and tell 456 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 7: the boss, I know I've done something wrong, and I 457 00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 7: apologize for it. He did get a reprimand, and he 458 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 7: did lose what is considered in law enforcement to be 459 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 7: a really good job, So I think that punishment is 460 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 7: on the range of reasonableness. 461 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: We also wanted Will's thoughts on retiring in lieu of termination. 462 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: He confirmed what Dan and Strassner told. 463 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 7: Us that's actually quite common. 464 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: Police officers received job protections like the ability to retire 465 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: in this way that people and other professions don't. That 466 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: can be a good thing. These protections prevent new leaders 467 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: like a chief or mayor, from hiring and firing randomly 468 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: for political or personal reasons. 469 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 7: We do not want a public employee punish for simply 470 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 7: doing doing their job the way they should. 471 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,120 Speaker 1: But these protections also mean that cops like Joel get 472 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 1: a lot of leeway. We asked Will to read the 473 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: transcripts from Joel's second disciplinary hearing the one for having 474 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: sex in his police car. 475 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 7: Any police officer reading that transcript would be thoroughly embarrassed 476 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 7: by what they were reading and would come up with 477 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 7: the conclusion he should be fired. I think ultimately, if 478 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 7: he had not had this right to retire, the city 479 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 7: of Colorado Springs would have terminated him. 480 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: Former CSPD officer Dan says that for the most part, 481 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: CSPD employees do serve honorably, and the department has procedures 482 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: in place to eliminate any bad actors. 483 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 12: You know, That's why you have internal affairs in those places. 484 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 5: They are there. 485 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 12: To try to weed those people out and get rid 486 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 12: of them. And I think most officers are going to 487 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 12: be of the opinion that the officers that are given 488 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 12: us the black eyed and need to go. I will 489 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 12: still say to this day that the Color Springs Police 490 00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 12: Department's one of the most ethical departments you're going to find, 491 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 12: and ninety nine percent of the officers out there are 492 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 12: doing it right. They're doing it for the right reason. 493 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: Joel ultimately lost his certification to be a cop, but 494 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: he was never criminally charged. And there are people who 495 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: see Joel's low key exit as telling that it speaks 496 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 1: to a pattern of corruption and favoritism. If you've made 497 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: the right friends in leadership, you'll get us softer landing 498 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: on the way out. We heard rumblings about this long 499 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: before we ever set foot in Colorado, because there was 500 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: somebody posting stories about it online, a whistleblower acting under 501 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: the name Romy Eastridge. They had a page called the 502 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 1: Police Officer's Whistleblower Network where they posted story after story 503 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: of misconduct at this CSPD. On the clock affairs covered 504 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: up crimes and inconsistent discipline. This whistleblower has remained anonymous 505 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: until now. After several conversations, she decided to break cover 506 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: to participate in betrayal. 507 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 16: I think that in order for these officers to lose 508 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 16: a fear of speaking out, I kind of need to 509 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 16: lead by example. 510 00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: That's Claudia Aldrich. Claudia has a family member who used 511 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: to work at the department. Claudia's family member went through 512 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: an internal affairs investigation and experienced what Claudia sees as 513 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: unfair treatment. Meanwhile, she kept hearing stories about other CSPD 514 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 1: cops getting away with bad behavior, and she wanted to 515 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: shine a light on the double standards within the department, 516 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 1: so she started her whistleblower page says CSPD cops are 517 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: too afraid to call out misconduct because of the rules 518 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:05,240 Speaker 1: for reporting. 519 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,920 Speaker 16: Apparently they had to go through the chain of command 520 00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:13,279 Speaker 16: to open an ia on internal affairs investigation. 521 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: If a cop wants to report misconduct, they typically go 522 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: to their supervisor, and even if a cop reports misconduct 523 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: directly to internal affairs or to another superior, word gets 524 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 1: around quick. Claudia's sources confirmed a long standing question we 525 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: had about Joel's sexual activity. Did other employees at CSPD 526 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: know what Joel was doing at work? The answer is yes, absolutely, 527 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: But would people report it? 528 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 16: Who is going to want to do that because doing 529 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 16: that puts their career on a big red spot. 530 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: So instead of reporting misconduct, some officers called Claudia. In 531 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:04,080 Speaker 1: one part, Claudia cites three sources in saying, who is 532 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: going to. 533 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 11: State the obvious? From gold Hill would walk over to 534 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 11: one of us and tell us we had to work 535 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 11: the desk while Kerrent and her would be hold up 536 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 11: in his office. Everyone knew what he was doing with 537 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 11: her during those days. We all just sat and essentially 538 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,640 Speaker 11: kept watch in case his wife or kids showed up 539 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 11: with his lunch. He did that, and you could tell 540 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 11: that even the commanders knew it. 541 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,319 Speaker 1: Here's a former civilian CSPD employee who worked at the 542 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: same substation as Joel. We'll call her Rennie. 543 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 2: He would come in before he worked out and said hi. 544 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: But the only reason he was there was so that 545 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 2: everyone could say, well, he was there working out, but 546 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,359 Speaker 2: he was there for the sole purpose to take a 547 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 2: shower after his lunchtime activities. 548 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: Here's Claudia again. 549 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 16: I actually had one officer called me and said he 550 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 16: did the same thing doing the riots. 551 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: She is referring to protests in twenty twenty following the 552 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: murder of George Floyd. 553 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 16: You're telling people to go and basically face rioters while 554 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 16: he was in some motel with someone. 555 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:27,919 Speaker 1: People knew about Joel long before Caroline ever did. Did 556 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,200 Speaker 1: they fear the consequences of reporting his misconduct? 557 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 16: I know that Kern also had a lot of power 558 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 16: and a lot of connections. 559 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: A twenty four year veteran of the department who was 560 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: also willing to sit with us for this project said. 561 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 17: The same, Joel Kern was one of the golden few. 562 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 17: Kern was protected. 563 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:55,240 Speaker 1: Posts on the whistleblower page alleged that Kern was also 564 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: protecting himself. One says, Lieutenant Kern had. 565 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,800 Speaker 11: A black book of CSPD dirty deeds that guaranteed him protection. 566 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 1: At first, we couldn't believe this, but then we heard 567 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: from employees that keeping records to protect yourself is a 568 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: common practice. 569 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 17: When you heard of an instance where a call for 570 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 17: service might have involved maybe the mayor, city council, other officers, 571 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 17: someone in that sort of political or high level realm, 572 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 17: right the first thing you did was look up that 573 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:31,440 Speaker 17: call quickly print it out, because you were guaranteed within 574 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 17: a couple hours that call screen was going to disappear 575 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 17: and would not be accessible. 576 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: When someone calls nine to one one, it generates a 577 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: call screen. Sometimes these are referred to as a call 578 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 1: for service. Call screens contain details like the names of 579 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 1: the people involved, the location, the nature of the emergency, 580 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: and notes about the calls progress. This officer and others 581 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: we spoke with alleged that the identification numbers of calls 582 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: for service for high profile individuals would get hidden in 583 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: the system. 584 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 17: And so lots of us and I did it myself, 585 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,719 Speaker 17: would print out these calls for service. So in the 586 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 17: case of some sort of retribution or retaliation, I had 587 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 17: a file folder of all right, if that's the way 588 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 17: we're going to play, then I have this. We all 589 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 17: protected ourselves. 590 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: So employees were keeping dirt on their superiors. Why because 591 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: they didn't trust their leadership. How can a police force 592 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: function that way? The story of the call screen's surprised 593 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,760 Speaker 1: law enforcement attorney will Achison. 594 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 7: You definitely have an accountability problem if that in fact occurred. Yeah, 595 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 7: I'm very surprised by that. 596 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 16: These officers were fighting without anybody knowing, and nobody knows 597 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,799 Speaker 16: that these four cups have to go out on the 598 00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 16: street and just watch the back. But also the surroundings 599 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 16: where they're in their department among their own peers. 600 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 1: Cops knew the deal. They weren't all going to be 601 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: treated fairly. It was all about who you were or 602 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 1: who you were friends with. On the next episode of Betrayal. 603 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 18: There were times that he hit me. There were times 604 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,640 Speaker 18: that he threw me across the room in front of 605 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 18: the kids. They get this case against him, and unsurprisingly 606 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,760 Speaker 18: they declined to prosecute. 607 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Betrayal season four. If you 608 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,040 Speaker 1: would like to reach out to the Betrayal team, email 609 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,359 Speaker 1: us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod 610 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,319 Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. Also, please be sure to follow 611 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,239 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Betrayal Pod and me Andrea H. 612 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,600 Speaker 1: Gunning for all Betrayal content, news and updates. One way 613 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 1: to support the series is by subscribing to our show 614 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. Please rate and review Betrayal five star reviews. 615 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,480 Speaker 1: Help us know you appreciate what we do. Betrayal is 616 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, 617 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 1: in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced 618 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: by Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason. Betrayal is hosted and 619 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 1: produced by me Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Kerrie Hartman, 620 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,400 Speaker 1: also produced by Ben Fetterman. Our associate producers are Caitlin 621 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: Golden and Kristin Melcuri. Our iHeart team is Ali Perry 622 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,400 Speaker 1: and Jessica Crincheck. Story editing by Monique Leboard, Audio editing 623 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:42,000 Speaker 1: and mixing by Matt Delvecchio, editing by Tanner Robbins. Special 624 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: thanks to voice actors Todd Gans and Andrew Kellaway, and 625 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,560 Speaker 1: special thanks to Caroline and her family. Betrayal's theme is 626 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: composed by Oliver Baines. Music library provided by mid Music 627 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: and for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, 628 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,920 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.