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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give.

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Speaker 3: You, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 2: Coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about.

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Speaker 2: It just means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show.

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Speaker 4: All right, welcome the counterpoints everybody. First of all, we

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Speaker 4: want to start by thanking all of the premium subscribers

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Speaker 4: either became premium subscribers or upgraded in orders so that

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Speaker 4: we could build our new studio, because I mean, I

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Speaker 4: don't know about you.

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Speaker 5: I've never been a huge.

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Speaker 3: Family bridge just gonna say you're liberating us, I know, but.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm hired to help with not up to maze,

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Speaker 4: but I've seen the designs of the new one.

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Speaker 5: I am very excited about it.

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Speaker 6: It's extremely cool, and we understand there are a lot

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Speaker 6: of people who've been super helpful in that, so thank you.

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Speaker 3: We really really appreciate it.

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Speaker 6: If you want to help the link as in the description,

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Speaker 6: we do have some huge breaking news to get to.

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Speaker 6: Right at the top of the show, as we were filming,

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Speaker 6: news broke that there was a drone strike. Russia is

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Speaker 6: saying there was a drone strike on the residence of

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Speaker 6: Vladimir Putin.

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Speaker 4: The New York boxes flip here, so right, So the

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Speaker 4: most extreme Russian claim being made here is that this

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Speaker 4: was an attempt on Vladimir Putin's life by two Ukrainian

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Speaker 4: drones that were taken down over the over the skies.

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Speaker 4: The media, the US media is saying that they don't

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Speaker 4: they're not able to verify that. We do have a

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Speaker 4: little bit of footage that has surfaced of this.

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Speaker 5: We can roll that.

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Speaker 3: Here, unbelievable footage.

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Speaker 4: And so this appears to be a drone being taken down.

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Speaker 4: Now Russia is saying that it's moving from here to

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Speaker 4: ban unmanned aerial vehicles you know, you know all you

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Speaker 4: know around Moscow. So we don't have any direct evidence

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Speaker 4: yet that these actually were even Ukrainian. We're going, you know,

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Speaker 4: based on only what Russia is saying. This is the

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Speaker 4: this is their claim. Now, it very well may be

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Speaker 4: the case that these were in fact Ukrainian drones, that

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Speaker 4: they were in fact in aiming to target the Kremlin.

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Speaker 4: Would be surprising to me if they were actually trying

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Speaker 4: to take out Vladimir Putin, because I don't like, does

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Speaker 4: he do they know exactly where he is at all hours?

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Speaker 5: In any event, I.

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Speaker 6: Would think their intelligence would be good enough to know

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Speaker 6: that Putin was not there, He was not at the residence,

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Speaker 6: he was elsewhere, and you would think their intelligence would

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Speaker 6: be good enough to know that.

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Speaker 3: But maybe not.

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Speaker 4: This hearkens back to the kind of early days of

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Speaker 4: February twenty twenty two, when when Russia had, you know,

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Speaker 4: at least several teams trying to assassinate, capture or assassinate

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Speaker 4: Vladimir Zelanski. And so it's not as if necessarily either

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Speaker 4: side is above this. Ukraine has taken out you know,

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Speaker 4: I can't lostcount of the number of Russian generals that

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Speaker 4: they've been able to identify and then kill with air strikes.

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Speaker 4: So it's not as if this type of thing, this

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Speaker 4: obviously would be an escalation by orders of magnitude.

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Speaker 6: Well, I was going to say, correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 6: but I believe one of the things from the Discord

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Speaker 6: leaks that Sager and Crystal talked about was China's kind

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Speaker 6: of red line for getting more directly involved in the

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Speaker 6: conflict was an attack deep inside Russia. So what was

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Speaker 6: a Ukrainian or Western sponsored attack that went inside like

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Speaker 6: towards Moscow?

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Speaker 4: Right, And so that raises the question which you always

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Speaker 4: have to ask in situations like this, of the false

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Speaker 4: flag like you know in warfare, that every country engages

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Speaker 4: in in false flag operations intend intending to give themselves

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Speaker 4: a tactical or strategic advantage. And so you're certainly going

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Speaker 4: to have some people on the Ukrainian side perhaps saying, well,

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Speaker 4: this is this is not what they're saying it is,

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Speaker 4: and in fact it is.

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Speaker 5: It is an effort to a either like you said, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, bring China more fully into the conflict, get China

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Speaker 4: to supply the weapons that the US says that Russia

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Speaker 4: keeps asking China to supply, or to justify whatever type

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Speaker 4: of escalation Russia might be might be contemplating in the

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Speaker 4: face of this long announced Ukrainian counter offensive that is

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Speaker 4: coming to spring, right.

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Speaker 6: And Yeah, the long announced counter offensive that we've heard

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Speaker 6: about for so long is we talked about this last week.

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Speaker 6: What people see is the final hurdle, you know, depending

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Speaker 6: on how the Spring counter offensive goes, people.

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Speaker 3: Can come to the table.

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Speaker 6: You made a great point last week saying, well, maybe

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Speaker 6: we just skip all the death and destruction and come

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Speaker 6: to the table. Now, what's the point if you're saying that,

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Speaker 6: you know, we just want to kind of see how

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Speaker 6: it goes. But this comes still before that is underway,

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Speaker 6: which I think is a really interesting piece of timing information, and.

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Speaker 4: It also reminds us of the terrifying reach of drones

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Speaker 4: around the world. I think we haven't really, I think

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Speaker 4: come to grips with the fact that it changed. It

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Speaker 4: changes the battlefield in a way that nothing has in

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Speaker 4: decades by exposing so many different people and civilians and

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Speaker 4: civilian leadership, uh to kind of the battlefield in a

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Speaker 4: way that if you think about Costum Solomony, the Iranian general,

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Speaker 4: he was hit by what a drone strike in the

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Speaker 4: he was he was driving just outside of the Bagdad

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Speaker 4: Airport when he was when he was hit.

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Speaker 5: And so then the question becomes.

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Speaker 4: Where else does that go do we start Do we

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Speaker 4: start seeing those in the United States? Do we start

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Speaker 4: seeing them in in Europe?

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Speaker 5: In Poland?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: Oh no, absolutely, and oh just can't wait until those

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Speaker 6: get hooked up to generative Ai Maxidan, he's the Financial

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Speaker 6: He's the Financial Times Moscow bureau chief. He's says the

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Speaker 6: Kremlin right now is claiming its military and secret services

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Speaker 6: quote acted timely to shoot down the drones, and they say, quote,

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Speaker 6: Russia reserves the right to take retaliatory measures when and

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Speaker 6: where it sees fit. Now again, this is on the

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Speaker 6: heels of more information about what could have been a

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Speaker 6: deadly strike on an aircraft in the Black Sea, right

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Speaker 6: it was a British aircraft had something like thirty personnel

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Speaker 6: on it, a near miss, and again by a near

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Speaker 6: miss by Russia. And again this is such a just tragic,

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Speaker 6: tragic reminder of how quickly things can change, how quickly

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Speaker 6: things can escalate.

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Speaker 3: And the coming.

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Speaker 6: Hours are going to be an incredible test of the

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Speaker 6: United States, the West, and Russia as well in China,

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Speaker 6: all of these countries who are entangled in the conflict,

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Speaker 6: how they handle footage going viral on the internet without

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Speaker 6: you know, the public having the full story.

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Speaker 4: Right And this exactly, and this is the type of

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Speaker 4: reason why wars are so dangerous, because they are so unpredictable.

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Speaker 4: You know, people think that they can keep a handle

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Speaker 4: that they can control the fates of these words say oh,

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Speaker 4: well this, you know, China thinks it's useful because it's

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Speaker 4: draining Russian in the United States things, it's useful because

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Speaker 4: it's uh, you know, draining Russian power. But that comes

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Speaker 4: with a hubris, a sense that you can actually guide

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Speaker 4: events in a way that history shows people just don't

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Speaker 4: actually have a way of guiding that. There are so

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Speaker 4: many hinge points and contingent events that we can't get

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Speaker 4: our minds around that the more space you give for them,

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Speaker 4: the more likelihood you are to create some type of

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Speaker 4: conflagration that you then look back on and say, how

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Speaker 4: did we let that happen?

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Speaker 7: Right?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 3: And we're in those moments right now.

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Speaker 4: Precarious, all right, moving on, there's new legislation in the

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Speaker 4: House and Senate that would require human beings to be

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Speaker 4: involved if we're going to nuke the world.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, let's put up a one here.

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Speaker 4: And so this to me has to be the kind

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Speaker 4: of the collision of the two most frightening things in

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Speaker 4: the world, nuclear armourged and artificial intelligence. And so this

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Speaker 4: is the reintroduction of a bill by ken Buck, your buddy, right.

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Speaker 6: The Republican member of the House with Ed Markey, Ted

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Speaker 6: lu So very by.

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Speaker 4: Party is a Democrat who and we can put up

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Speaker 4: a two here. Our technica writing this up. The bill

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Speaker 4: and I read it this morning, is quite short. Basically

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Speaker 4: says you have to have a human being involved in

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Speaker 4: autonomous weapons that could blow up the world.

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Speaker 5: Yes, and I think that seems fair.

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Speaker 6: And you know, it's funny because, as you say, Ryan,

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Speaker 6: it's a five page bill and the lever for this,

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Speaker 6: the mechanism by which they hope to ban any artificial

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Speaker 6: intelligence from launching a nuke is federal fund right, so

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Speaker 6: you can't have any federal funding used to launch a

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Speaker 6: nuclear weapon with AI.

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Speaker 3: Essentially seems pretty reasonable.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that sounds fair.

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Speaker 4: And so at the intercept we have and maybe you

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Speaker 4: guys have these too, We have what you call an

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Speaker 4: air gap computer, which is it's it's not connected to

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Speaker 4: the internet right in any way, so that if somebody

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Speaker 4: leaks us documents on some type of a thumb drive,

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Speaker 4: we can just load it onto the air gap.

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Speaker 5: Basically, the snowed and files.

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Speaker 4: Were kept on a sophisticated version of that. That's how

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Speaker 4: you make sure that there's no penetration by anybody into

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Speaker 4: the system.

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Speaker 5: So basically, I.

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Speaker 4: Think you've got air gap your nuclear weapons, like no

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Speaker 4: links to the internet, between between nuclear weapons and the Internet,

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Speaker 4: because the AI, if it wants to do that, could

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Speaker 4: eventually at some point, let's say it's say.

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Speaker 5: It's two hundred years from now.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but we don't want to even if it's a

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Speaker 4: one percent chance or a point zero one percent chance,

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Speaker 4: you don't want to leave open the possibility that some

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Speaker 4: maliciously thinking AI decides that it's going to worm its

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Speaker 4: way into new GROT. I think you just just keep it,

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Speaker 4: keep it gapped. That the only way you can president

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Speaker 4: is I don't know, with a lighter or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And this bill was introduced yesterday.

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Speaker 6: I think it's actually some of the biggest news in

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Speaker 6: the world, despite the fact that I've seen very little

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Speaker 6: coverage of it. Sager and Crystal yesterday talked about Jeff Hinton,

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Speaker 6: who left Google. Not because you know he talked about

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Speaker 6: this in the MIT Technology Review in an interview yesterday.

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Speaker 6: We have this element not because you know, he suddenly

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Speaker 6: hates Google, but because he thinks he can do more

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Speaker 6: help outside of Google. He's an early deep learning pioneer

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Speaker 6: who has now left these AI projects and is pretty

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Speaker 6: terrified of where artificial intelligence is going, is speaking in

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Speaker 6: pretty extreme and dramatic terms about how this could He

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Speaker 6: said right there, you can see the quote up on

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Speaker 6: the streen. I have suddenly switched my views on whether

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Speaker 6: these things are going to be more intelligent than us.

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Speaker 6: And now this is from the MIT Tech Review. He

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Speaker 6: thinks the international ban this is Hinton on chemical weapons

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Speaker 6: might be one model of how to go about curbing

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Speaker 6: the development and use of dangerous AI. Quote it wasn't

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Speaker 6: fool proof, but on the whole, people don't use chemical weapons.

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Speaker 6: He says, Well, little comfort given that people do still

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Speaker 6: use chemical weapons, and it would take about one AI

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Speaker 6: nuke launch to get us in a really terrible situation.

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Speaker 6: This makes another This is from the MIT Review. There's

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Speaker 6: another expert here who's saying, quote, I believe that we

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Speaker 6: should be open to the possibility of fairly different models

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Speaker 6: for the social organization of our planet. And Ryan, I'm

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Speaker 6: going to toss this to you with the question. This

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Speaker 6: bill is for the United States. Artificial intelligence has been

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Speaker 6: unleashed globally. There are other countries with nuclear capabilities. We

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Speaker 6: can you know, sort of take care of this at home,

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Speaker 6: cross our fingers and hope everybody that follows the law

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Speaker 6: and the mechanisms work. But without you know, the United

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Speaker 6: Nations is founded. I'm no fan of the United Nations,

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Speaker 6: but it was found, and you can look at like

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Speaker 6: what Winston Churchill said at the time, after nuclear warfare

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Speaker 6: hit the planets, it seems reasonable to think that we

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Speaker 6: should be looking at global mechanisms right now to ensure

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Speaker 6: that in a very short period of time we don't

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Speaker 6: have catastrophe.

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Speaker 4: Nuclear non proliferation can't agree more. And it's going to

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Speaker 4: require every country to actually be honest about where their

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Speaker 4: programs are. That includes, you know, getting inspectors into the

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Speaker 4: running a nuclear program, striking and getting that deal going again.

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Speaker 4: And also Israel just admitting publicly it's instead of like

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Speaker 4: the wink and nod that they have it and everybody

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Speaker 4: knows that they have it, like to say, okay, we

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Speaker 4: got it. Here's how we're going to make sure that

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Speaker 4: we don't accidentally launch it. Because you also don't want

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Speaker 4: a situation where you have some lunatic hawk who thinks,

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Speaker 4: you know what, I actually really do want to launch

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Speaker 4: this nuclear weapon at Tehran or whatever, and then afterwards

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Speaker 4: going to say, h that darn Ai, don't retally against us,

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Speaker 4: because Chief, we're so sorry about that, and we're going

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Speaker 4: to put safeguards in place so this never happens again.

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Speaker 4: So I think Elon Musk made a good point on

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Speaker 4: AI that regulation so often comes after a disaster, and

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Speaker 4: this is not the kind of disaster that we can

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Speaker 4: afford to wait till afterwards to start regulating. That we

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Speaker 4: have to do the unthinkable for humans, which is to

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Speaker 4: think ahead.

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Speaker 6: And the counterpoint pun intended from people who are actually

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Speaker 6: very scared about what it would mean to pause some

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Speaker 6: of these rapid advancements in AI, is that if we

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Speaker 6: do that, we fall behind China. They've put a lot

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Speaker 6: of emphasis on AI. We fall behind other countries who

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Speaker 6: are really rapidly developing their AI for defense capabilities. And

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Speaker 6: if you sort of pull back on Silicon Valley, through

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Speaker 6: the government, through the culture, and the United States, you

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Speaker 6: end up falling dramatically behind. I have actually zero fears

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Speaker 6: of us falling dramatically behind any of those other countries,

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Speaker 6: precisely because value is going to continue to do what

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Speaker 6: it's doing. The question is whether we can put safeguards

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Speaker 6: and pay in place that allow them to do it,

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Speaker 6: to do it in a way that is not just

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Speaker 6: protective of us. I mean, think about people who have

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Speaker 6: no stake in this right now. Think about the people

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Speaker 6: of Haiti who we're talking about later, who are completely

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Speaker 6: vulnerable to something like this. I mean, you have these

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Speaker 6: wealthy countries developing this technology that could spell more doom

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Speaker 6: and misery for people who had no input in the

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Speaker 6: development of it in undeveloped countries.

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Speaker 4: And I forget who said it, but somebody has said

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Speaker 4: that the biggest handicap that the human race has is

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Speaker 4: its inability. Is people's inability to understand the exponential function. Yes,

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Speaker 4: like we can understand a linear function like, oh, things

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Speaker 4: are going this way, they'll probably still continue to go

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Speaker 4: this way, or they might go down like this. But

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Speaker 4: exponential that we just can't grasp. And that's what shocks

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Speaker 4: so many people about COVID back in March of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 4: thinking like, how could the world go from what it

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Speaker 4: was in March first to what it is now in

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Speaker 4: April first? And linear thinking cannot explain that. You have

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Speaker 4: to be able to kind of absorb the exponential function

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Speaker 4: and at the same time, people couldn't understand how exponentially

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Speaker 4: it kind of collapsed like you because just as the

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Speaker 4: way that the chart goes up like this, it comes

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Speaker 4: back down like this. And so you had a lot

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Speaker 4: of people who finally had understood that we were in

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Speaker 4: the middle of this pandemic, but they couldn't kind of

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Speaker 4: ski down that exponential slope. And so they're over here

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Speaker 4: still treating it as if we're up here. And so,

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Speaker 4: like Mosk was saying, you cannot misunderstand this function this

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Speaker 4: time around. It's one thing, you know, to misunderstand a

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Speaker 4: pandemic that is that has a kind of case fatality

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Speaker 4: rate of point five percent or point one percent. It's

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Speaker 4: going to lead to millions of deaths, but it's not

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Speaker 4: going to lead to the end of human civilization, which

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Speaker 4: you know, this good.

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Speaker 5: If we screw it up.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. And that's what Hinton is saying.

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Speaker 6: I mean, he's saying, you know, they if you think

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Speaker 6: about what AI sees as increasing its power, what an

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Speaker 6: algorithm might see is increasing power. It's cloning itself, it

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Speaker 6: is doing going after other people that threaten its power.

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Speaker 6: Just logically, you can understand how an algorithm would get

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Speaker 6: from point A to point B, and that creates something

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Speaker 6: that spirals out of human control very very quickly. And

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Speaker 6: so I am concerned about things like teenagers using AI

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Speaker 6: and getting you know, basically sexually assaulted by AI. I

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Speaker 6: think that's a huge concern, But those are also the

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Speaker 6: cases that people use to say, listen, you know, there

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Speaker 6: are always dangers to teenagers. This is within our ability,

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Speaker 6: it's within it should be within the scope of parental

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Speaker 6: responsibility to safeguard this, et cetera, et cetera. This is

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Speaker 6: so much bigger than that, just profound change in human existence,

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Speaker 6: and so this is the potential here. This is actually

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Speaker 6: some good news out of Washington. I think that you

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Speaker 6: have a bipartisan coalition of people who are paying attention

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Speaker 6: to this. I don't know where this bill is going

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Speaker 6: to go, but it's important that we see here you

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Speaker 6: have not just Democrats, not just Republicans talking about it

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Speaker 6: and coming on shows like this and talking about it,

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Speaker 6: but they actually have legislation on the table.

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Speaker 4: And the idea of putting safeguards around This actually brings

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Speaker 4: us to our next topic, which is the writer's strike

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Speaker 4: and watching if we can put up a one here

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Speaker 4: because you know, one of the key things. So they're

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Speaker 4: walking they walked out on the job. I'm sorry, b one,

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Speaker 4: they walked out on the job yesterday. So we're looking

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Speaker 4: at a workstopage. We're going to be looking at a

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Speaker 4: lot of reruns. A lot of people are going to

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Speaker 4: have a lot of time to catch up on some

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Speaker 4: streaming that they have been putting aside for a while.

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Speaker 6: Forst strike in fifteen years and people might remember the

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Speaker 6: last one that went for about one.

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Speaker 5: Hundred days produce the reality TV industry.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, some people would argue that it really fueled

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Speaker 6: the rise of reality TV. But this time around, with streaming,

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Speaker 6: that's really what this is about. I mean, I think

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Speaker 6: everybody understands that's what this is about. Although it's also

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Speaker 6: a little bit about AI. This time around was streaming.

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Speaker 6: There's such a backlog of content. It's less of a

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Speaker 6: threat directly to the studios or to Hollywood, I should say,

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Speaker 6: because right now it's at the end of the season.

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Speaker 6: We're in May, and so if this goes into the summer,

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Speaker 6: that's where it becomes a really big problem for the networks.

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Speaker 6: But for streamers, they do have a lot of backloged content,

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Speaker 6: So I think that has hurt the leverage a little bit.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And if we put up B two, which is

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Speaker 4: this tweet from Adam Connover on behalf of the Union,

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Speaker 4: and you can go check out you can go check

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Speaker 4: this out if you want.

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Speaker 5: To read it in more detail.

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Speaker 4: He's at Adam Connover and what they do and this

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Speaker 4: is I like this, Thank you, Thank you for the transparency.

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Speaker 5: Writers.

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Speaker 4: They put up what their proposals were, and they put

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Speaker 4: up what the responses were from the bosses, if the

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Speaker 4: boss has had any particular responses to this. And what

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Speaker 4: you see in a lot of it is, like you said,

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Speaker 4: anxiety about the way that they're moving from movie mindset

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Speaker 4: to streaming mindset. And so what they're trying to do

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Speaker 4: is say, look, if this is a twelve plus million

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Speaker 4: dollar budget type of film that would have had some

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Speaker 4: type of theatrical possibility or theatrical release in the previous era,

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Speaker 4: we want theatrical basically pay for this. And they they

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Speaker 4: come back, they say, well, if it's forty million, we'll

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Speaker 4: give you this type of thing. So those do feel

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Speaker 4: like the kinds of things that can be negotiated around,

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Speaker 4: and do we have the st from Conover. Y. Yeah, this,

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Speaker 4: let's let's play this. This is Conover on CNN.

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Speaker 8: Say, look, times are changing. We are not making as

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Speaker 8: much money as we once did. This is not the

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Speaker 8: golden era of television. Although some of us would argue

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Speaker 8: the shows are great, what do you say to them?

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Speaker 9: So I'd point out the fact that David Zoslov, the

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Speaker 9: CEO of Warner Brothers Discovery, which is, you know, the

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Speaker 9: parent company of the network I'm talking to you on

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Speaker 9: right now, was paid two hundred and fifty million dollars

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Speaker 9: last year, a quarter of a billion dollars. That's about

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Speaker 9: the same level what ten thousand writers are asking him

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Speaker 9: to pay all of us collectively.

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Speaker 5: All Right, So I would.

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Speaker 9: Say, if you're being paid two hundred and fifty million dollars,

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Speaker 9: Ted Sarandos made about fifty million last year. These companies

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Speaker 9: are making enormous amounts of money, Their profits are going up.

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Speaker 9: It's ridiculous for them to plead poverty when the writers

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Speaker 9: who are making their shows, some of them are not

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Speaker 9: able to pay their rent or their mortgages. I literally

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Speaker 9: know writers who have had to go on assistance because

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Speaker 9: they have not been able to.

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Speaker 10: Make their year.

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Speaker 9: If you look at these companies, they're making more money

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Speaker 9: than ever. It's the people who make the shows for

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Speaker 9: them that are making less.

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Speaker 3: That was absolutely fantastic.

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Speaker 6: It's like he's interrupting their programming with some harsh reality.

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Speaker 6: But he also kind of retweeted, we proposed and negotiations

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Speaker 6: that ai not be used to undermine our work.

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Speaker 3: They rejected our proposal and offered a quote.

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Speaker 6: Annual meeting to discuss advances in technology. Wow, a meeting,

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Speaker 6: Thank you ever so much? An insulting counter just dripping

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Speaker 6: with contempt. NBC reports The main quote sticking points according

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Speaker 6: to entertainment companies include union proposals that would require companies

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Speaker 6: to staff TV shows with a certain number of writers

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Speaker 6: for specific period of time.

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Speaker 3: Quote whether needed or not, this is a quote.

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Speaker 6: I think we're getting to the point where it's going

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Speaker 6: to be that the only people who can afford to

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Speaker 6: try to start a career in television movies are going

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Speaker 6: to be people who are independently wealthy already, which I

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Speaker 6: don't think is good for television or movies. I don't

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Speaker 6: think we want that. An expert quoted in the NBC

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Speaker 6: news piece said that is an absolutely critical point, and

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Speaker 6: one of the things that the writers are complaining about

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Speaker 6: is they've essentially been pushed into a gig economy model,

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Speaker 6: when in the past, before streaming, when you just had

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Speaker 6: these broadcast networks who with much more control, much fewer programming,

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Speaker 6: you could have like a really stable job, like the

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Speaker 6: sort of normal type of job where you can feed

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Speaker 6: your family, you have your expectations, you have everything is

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Speaker 6: more stable and clear about what work looks like. And

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Speaker 6: now it's like picking up stuff here for just a

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Speaker 6: second and getting paid for it that way.

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Speaker 3: Stuff here here here. It just makes it really hard

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Speaker 3: to have to make a living.

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Speaker 6: And I would argue one of the biggest problems with

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Speaker 6: Hollywood right now, and it's the same.

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Speaker 3: Thing with the news media.

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Speaker 6: It's not just political bias, it's class bias that creates

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Speaker 6: all of these other kind of biases, you know, whether

441
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 6: it's representation, which I actually think is even I'm conservative,

442
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,680
Speaker 6: I think that's a very real thing. And it's not

443
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 6: just about racial representation, sexual representation, but class representation. And

444
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,160
Speaker 6: this is going to make that so much worse if

445
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,520
Speaker 6: they don't find a way to come to a solution here.

446
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,360
Speaker 4: And because there is such kind of you know, there's

447
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 4: such universal respect for not necessarily Hollywood elites, but for

448
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 4: Hollywood itself and TV and movie production in the United

449
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 4: States and around the world. What that has meant is

450
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 4: that people from all walks of life have strive in

451
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 4: America to kind of become part of that industry.

452
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 5: And as a result, I think they.

453
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 4: Actually in TV when it comes to TV movies, they've

454
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 4: done a better job than I would say, like the

455
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 4: national media that in portraying the you know, work working class,

456
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 4: whether uh you know, black, white, brown types of you know,

457
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 4: experiences across the country, whether it's Yellowstone or something else.

458
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 4: You know, there there is a they they have maintained

459
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 4: their connection, you know, with all of America because all

460
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 4: of America wants to work in this field because it's

461
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 4: the it's the thing that's like a lot of talented

462
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 4: kids grow up wanting to do. And if you restrict

463
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 4: it just to rich kids who can afford, you know,

464
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 4: to take these gig these gig jobs, then you're then

465
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 4: you're not going to be in touch anymore.

466
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 6: It's one of the big things that ruined news media.

467
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,400
Speaker 6: I mean, it really absolutely is. It's if you look

468
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 6: at the pipeline coming from all of the fancy schools

469
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 6: and the people coming from those backgrounds. It created these

470
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 6: huge class blind spots that have been I think central

471
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 6: to the failures of media. And the last thing you

472
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 6: want to do is then, uh create the entire culture.

473
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 6: Get that problem in the entire culture.

474
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 4: And it's been fun to see the kind of solidarity

475
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 4: extend to big celebrities. So you had Jimmy callon the

476
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 4: other day saying, you know that he's a he's a

477
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 4: guild member that you know they're I think he said

478
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 4: they're going to go dark a late night TV is right. So,

479
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 4: and here's here's Colbert, Stephen Colbert his response to the walkout.

480
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:27,440
Speaker 1: These are our writers, these people, these are our writers.

481
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: And I'll stick myself in there because I'm w G

482
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: A two and they're so important to our show. They

483
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: write the monologue, the meanwhile, the cold open, and without

484
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,359
Speaker 1: these people. Without these people, this show would be called

485
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 1: the Late Show with the guy rambling about the Lord

486
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: of the Rings.

487
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 5: And boats for an hour. This negotiation impacts.

488
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: Our whole staff, of course, who work so hard to

489
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: bring you this show every night, which is why everybody,

490
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: including myself, hopes both sides reach a deal. But I

491
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: also think that the writer's demands are not unreasonable. I'm

492
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: a member of the guild. I support collective bargaining. This

493
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: nation owes so much to unions.

494
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 5: Anyway.

495
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 4: And then he does a TGI Friday's joke, which was

496
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 4: actually kind of funny.

497
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 3: Oh that was good.

498
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, guess you got to go find the clip if

499
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,239
Speaker 4: you want that. But the thing that the writers are

500
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:23,439
Speaker 4: so nervous about is that AI's quickly developing capacity is

501
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 4: going to be deployed to throw them out of work.

502
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 4: And I think when you think about Law and Order,

503
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 4: you can imagine a TV executive being like, hey, chat GPT, Yeah, like,

504
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 4: here's a new headline, here's a plot, write me a

505
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 4: Law and Order somebody. I think Dave Anthony was posting

506
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,719
Speaker 4: on Twitter. He's like, we already have AI generated films.

507
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 4: They're called Marvel, and so you know, there there is

508
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 4: a risk that you could imagine the more formulaic that

509
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 4: Hollywood becomes than the easier it would be for an

510
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 4: ll M to produce that formula.

511
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 6: Well, there's a great viral of all the local news

512
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 6: reporters who wrote their scripts with chat GPT and like,

513
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 6: read the read the packet or like did the news

514
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 6: story and then at the end of it said that

515
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 6: was written by chat GPT And so it's already obviously

516
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 6: affecting the way people are writing for television. Obviously news

517
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 6: is a little bit different, but you can see that's

518
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 6: pretty pretty translatable.

519
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 3: To anything else. So AI is a huge threat streaming.

520
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 6: The streaming area era is one that would never really

521
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,639
Speaker 6: reckoned with in terms of pay structure.

522
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 3: And so I think that's why at the heart.

523
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 6: Of this, like, you know, it's all a reasonable conversation,

524
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 6: and I do think they're going to come to an agreement.

525
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, how tough it's going to be.

526
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 6: I don't know how long it's going to be, because

527
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 6: I do think some of their leverage has been hampered

528
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 6: and their demands are reasonable. But it is just a

529
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 6: great example of how like the David Zaslavs of the world,

530
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 6: breaking in.

531
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 3: Court of a billion dollars.

532
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 6: Don't even want to like really come to the table

533
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 6: in a serious way.

534
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 5: And I think you can think he could live.

535
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,040
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't want him to suffer, but do

536
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 4: you think he could live on maybe five million dollars

537
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:01,360
Speaker 4: a year?

538
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 3: I think he could maybe live.

539
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 6: I don't know if you're going to agree with us

540
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 6: on just two hundred million, two hundred million million.

541
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 3: I don't want to be inhumane.

542
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 4: You start doing the math on that, and it's hard

543
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 4: to make ends made. Yeah, once you've got get.

544
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 3: Rid of the plane.

545
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 5: But that would be fifty million dollars to spread around

546
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 5: the writers.

547
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, there you go.

548
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 5: So all right, that's that's place to start.

549
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 6: Well, speaking of disasters in the United States of America,

550
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 6: President Biden announced yesterday that he is sending fifteen hundred

551
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 6: active duty troops to the border with Mexico in anticipation

552
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 6: of the end of Title forty two.

553
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 3: Ryan, what did you make of this announcement?

554
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 4: Suggests to me that they're not prepared. We have known

555
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,399
Speaker 4: that Title forty two is going to be ending. We

556
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 4: haven't known precisely when for two years, but we've known

557
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 4: for two years that at some point it was going

558
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 4: to end. We've known for a very long time, you know,

559
00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 4: with some precision that it was going to end. We

560
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 4: known that the Gang Networks and the smugglers have been

561
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 4: broadcasting to people across Central America and the Caribbean that

562
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:10,880
Speaker 4: Title forty two is going to be ending because it's

563
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 4: good for their business, whether or not, whether or not

564
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 4: it actually means that people are going to be getting

565
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 4: over the border easier. They will use anything they possibly

566
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 4: can to entice people to say, look now, now is

567
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 4: your shot. They'll I wouldn't be surprised if they start

568
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 4: circulating fake polls showing Trump like ten points ahead of Biden.

569
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 4: I bet that's already happening, and WhatsApp groups around Central

570
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 4: and South America saying, look, Trump's going to win, He's

571
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 4: going to come back, He's going to do the child

572
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 4: separation again. You know, if you want to, you know,

573
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 4: if you want to get up there, you got Title

574
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 4: forty two is ending.

575
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 5: You got to come now.

576
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 4: And the result then will be an effective kind of

577
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 4: word of mouth campaigns that will get people sturgeon to

578
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 4: the border. And so Biden's response sending fifteen hundred troops,

579
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 4: which adds to some National Guard what five or so

580
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 4: or twenty five parter National bar troops that are already there,

581
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 4: sort of saying that they will be armed as active

582
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 4: duty troops often are, they will not be participating in

583
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 4: security operations. They'll be more handling logistics, helping to you know,

584
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 4: everything from moving equipment I think, to building building the

585
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 4: shelters and other things necessary for you know, in influx

586
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 4: of migrants that that's expected.

587
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 5: Yes, what was your take, Well.

588
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, so they're gonna it's a it's a ninety day

589
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 6: deployment as of right now, and of course that can change.

590
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 6: But the big question is May eleventh, eleven fifty nine

591
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 6: PM is when all of this is about to expire,

592
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 6: how dramatically, how dramatically almost war zone esk is the

593
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 6: border going to become? And then what does the Biden

594
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 6: administration do because right now it's kind of been doing

595
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 6: a math using using like this this weird mathematical magic

596
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 6: trick to make it look like going down in a

597
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 6: way that kind of placates both the left and the

598
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 6: right by changing how they count encounters, how they count

599
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 6: illegal crossings. They use the CBP one app and say,

600
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 6: you know, if you didn't schedule an Apple appointment and.

601
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 3: You cross the border, you're out of here. You're going back.

602
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 6: But we've also seen people get humanitarian parole even if

603
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 6: they don't do that. So it's a lot of discretion

604
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 6: at different parts of the border of the people that

605
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 6: are managing things there, which is created just like this

606
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 6: complete messy patchwork that allows cartels to fuel this huge

607
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 6: influx with disinformation, because when people get in, people who

608
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 6: are desperate say it's worth it for me. I'd rather

609
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 6: camp out in Renosa, Mexico on the street then be

610
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 6: here in Nicaragua, because at least there I have a chance,

611
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 6: and it's an increasingly high chance, as the cartels will

612
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 6: tell them of at some point getting across the border.

613
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 6: I might have to wait six months, but that's better

614
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 6: than just being in Nicaragua without anyway.

615
00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: To get across the border.

616
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 6: And so I think the way the Biden administration handles

617
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 6: not just that eleven to fifty nine pm on May eleventh,

618
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,160
Speaker 6: but the surge of people that come up through Central America,

619
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 6: through the Darien Gap and through these very dangerous places.

620
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 6: That's already happening, and it will already hurt people for

621
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 6: generations to come. There are children that are permanently scarred

622
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 6: by this, that are on their way up to the

623
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 6: border right now because they know Title forty two is ending,

624
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 6: because their parents know Title forty two is ending. Here

625
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 6: before a cartel, because of cartel that is preying on them,

626
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 6: knows it's ending there are people right now who are

627
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 6: being raped on their way up to the American border,

628
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 6: that are being kidnapped on their way up to the

629
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 6: American border because of all of this, and so it's

630
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 6: the troops. I think actually it's a step in the

631
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 6: right direction and maybe we can play The White House

632
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 6: sought here of how Curne Jean Pierre handled that.

633
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 5: This is Steve Deucey with KJP.

634
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 4: You said yesterday that when it comes to a legal migration.

635
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 5: You've seen it come down by more than ninety percent.

636
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 5: Where did that number come from?

637
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,080
Speaker 11: It was I was speaking, It was telling us the

638
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 11: number is I hear you, I'm about to answer. I'm

639
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 11: about I'm about to answer you for years. So if

640
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 11: you if the dramatics could come down just a little bit,

641
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 11: if the dramatics had come down.

642
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 9: A little bit dramatic about asking a question about.

643
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 11: Okay, I'm going to answer. So I was speaking to

644
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 11: the Paroli program. As you know, the President put in

645
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 11: place a parole program to deal with to deal with

646
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 11: certain countries on ways that we can limit illegal migration.

647
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 11: And we have seen the data has shown us that

648
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 11: it has gone down by more than ninety percent. That

649
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 11: was what I was speaking to. Now, we're gonna go.

650
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 11: We're gonna move. Go ahead, go ahead, We're moving, Peter.

651
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 5: Let's go.

652
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 6: Three. It's a real problem for the Biden administration not

653
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,959
Speaker 6: wanting to call the border crisis a crisis.

654
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 3: Well at the same time deploying fifteen hundred active duty troops.

655
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 4: It's like that the meme with the little the dog

656
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 4: drinking the coffee that this.

657
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 5: Is fine, the flames behind.

658
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: It, everything is fine.

659
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and then he then the.

660
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 4: Dog doesn't want to go for the fire extinguish her

661
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 4: because then he'll be called out. You said everything was fine,

662
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 4: Why do you need the fire? SINGI sure what this

663
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 4: is your house on fire? But you're like, oh, actually

664
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 4: kind of the house, it kind of is on fire.

665
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 12: Uh.

666
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 4: And if you think that it's only criticism from the right, here,

667
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 4: if we put up C three here, this is the

668
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 4: former DPC or n SC deputy and who was in

669
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: charge of the border for the Biden minister and saying

670
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,479
Speaker 4: that this shows a that they just simply weren't prepared.

671
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 4: And now this could be her kind of expressing some.

672
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 5: Internal kind of.

673
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 4: Office politics and like digging at her former colleagues that

674
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 4: she's upset about for things we don't understand could also

675
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 4: just be correct because it also does it scans, it

676
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 4: does scream we're not ready, and it also she goes

677
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 4: to Susan Rice's extraordinarily ability as a politician, because Susan Rice,

678
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 4: as DPC director, oversaw this calamitous UH immigration policy for

679
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 4: two years and she just up and.

680
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 5: Leaves right before titel forty two.

681
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 4: She managed to keep her name mostly out of the

682
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 4: news when it was connected to Biden's immigration policy, Biden's

683
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 4: border policy, even though she was instrumental in setting it

684
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,640
Speaker 4: and I think setting it in a poor direction, and

685
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 4: as it's really going to start making news, she's like.

686
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I think I'm good in my checking. Yeah,

687
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 5: I'm out of here.

688
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 6: Good luck everybody, right, And there's no serious movement on

689
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 6: action from Congress, legislation that could be assigned by the president,

690
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 6: legislation that could be passed, it all, and we're doing

691
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 6: all of this through essentially administrative channels, which is why

692
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 6: it's a Patrick at the border because there's no clarity

693
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 6: from Congress, there's no clarity from the law, so you

694
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 6: can just sort of change it here, change it there,

695
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 6: send migrants in this way that way, and it's just

696
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 6: really dangerous for everybody, and I think a real tragedy

697
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 6: and real like a shame on us and our leadership.

698
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, we'll be following it as it unfolds.

699
00:34:59,800 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 13: Now.

700
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 6: It was announced yesterday that Chuck Schumer said he'll make

701
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 6: a decision after the May ninth meeting on whether to

702
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 6: bring a two year clean debt limit bill to the

703
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 6: floor of the Senate for a vote. This is big

704
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 6: news as Republicans and Democrats in Washington race to figure

705
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 6: out a solution, or maybe not, maybe they're just racing

706
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 6: with their individual teams to figure out what their team's

707
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 6: position is going to be as opposed to what a

708
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 6: solution between both of those teams would be. As the

709
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 6: debt ceiling gets closer and closer and closer to becoming

710
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 6: an incredibly serious problem for the United States, Obviously, Republicans

711
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 6: passed that I would say like a remarkable compromised legislation

712
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 6: last week, just purely from a political strategy standpoint, and

713
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 6: they're able to get their House coalition on board with

714
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 6: that legislation.

715
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 3: Ryan, yesterday we learned about the discharge petition.

716
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 6: Tell us about this because you were reporting on this

717
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 6: back in January, and.

718
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you want to put up the second element here,

719
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 4: this is so from the Washing Post New York Times, I.

720
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 5: Think might have might have scooped this.

721
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 4: They say, you know, House Democrats maneuver to force a

722
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,839
Speaker 4: debt ceiling vote as default looms and right, So this

723
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,200
Speaker 4: is what's known as a discharge petition, which is a

724
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 4: rule that Republicans left in the House rules which says

725
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 4: that if you gather two hundred and eighteen signatures on

726
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 4: any type of legislation, then you can pull it to

727
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 4: the House floor no matter what the speaker says about it. Now,

728
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 4: there are a whole bunch of rules around this, and

729
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 4: the fun part is, like they keep pointed out early January,

730
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 4: after the after the rules package was agreed to, I

731
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 4: reported this, if you put up the third third element

732
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 4: that the Republicans had left us in and that it

733
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 4: did produce an opportunity for Democrats to do something about it.

734
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 4: If you want to put up the fourth element, what's

735
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 4: what The point I made at the time was that

736
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:57,399
Speaker 4: they had to move very quickly that because of all

737
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 4: of the arcane rules around a discharge petition, it has

738
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 4: to be introduced for thirty days, that has to be

739
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 4: referred to a committee. It's got to sit before the

740
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 4: committee for a number of days. And then if you

741
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 4: look at the crazy part about a Monday, like it

742
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 4: can only appear on a certain Monday after a certain

743
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 4: amount of time, they had to move fast. I thought

744
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 4: that they had given up on this that just like

745
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 4: most of my hair brained ideas, like people are like, ah,

746
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 4: that's kind of cute.

747
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,600
Speaker 6: I guess we could do that, like grim is on

748
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 6: another one on one again.

749
00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're not. We're not going to do that night

750
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:27,719
Speaker 5: nice try.

751
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,480
Speaker 4: But it turns out three weeks after I published this,

752
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 4: they had a backbench member of Congress who filed a

753
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 4: basically a shell bill that was called kind of the

754
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 4: Break the Break the Gridlock Act, and it was filed

755
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 4: as a rule, which actually makes it so that it's

756
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 4: easier to get it to the floor. A bill requires

757
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 4: a rule out a bill rule is just just one

758
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 4: rule goes right to the floor out of the rules

759
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,319
Speaker 4: committee once it gets discharged from there. And what that

760
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 4: did is it allowed it to get referred to committee

761
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 4: and it got the clock ticking without saying, hey, this

762
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 4: is a discharge petition, and this is our backup plan

763
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 4: in order to force Republicans. And so now because they

764
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 4: have because they got it in in January, it looks

765
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 4: like June.

766
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 5: Sometime in June, they could.

767
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 4: Actually get it to the They could get it to

768
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:26,919
Speaker 4: the floor. And now McCarthy has at least two mechanisms

769
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 4: that he can use to prevent it from getting to

770
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 4: the floor, even if they get two hundred and eighteen,

771
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 4: which require like four Republicans or something like that. The

772
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 4: two mechanisms are arcane. One of them is, it's so

773
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 4: funny Congress can define what a day is. Oh god,

774
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 4: we think that a day is twenty four hours. No

775
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 4: Congress does what it wants, and so if it doesn't

776
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 4: kind of gavel out of session a legislative day. There

777
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 4: have been legislative days that have lasted like forty five

778
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 4: days or something.

779
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 5: It's hilarious.

780
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,919
Speaker 4: And so you say, hey, well seven legislative days haven't

781
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 4: past book seven days past. The second thing you could

782
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 4: do is on the Monday that it's ripe and is

783
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 4: required to be voted on, he could just simply keep Congress,

784
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 4: keep the House out of session. Yeah, the House is

785
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,759
Speaker 4: in session, can't be brought up and it's like, ha,

786
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 4: the discharge petition writers didn't think of that. But what

787
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 4: that does is it makes McCarthy the actor. He's now

788
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,399
Speaker 4: blocking a solution to the crisis. The reason that he

789
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,799
Speaker 4: wanted the two hundred and eighteen votes or he got

790
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 4: two seventeen, somebody didn't show up, but it passed. The

791
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 4: reason he wanted the House to pass pass a debt

792
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 4: ceiling bill is so that he could say, look, we've

793
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 4: done our part. It's Biden who's going to default on

794
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 4: the debt. Because all he would have to do move

795
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 4: this through the Senate, sign it in the law, and

796
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 4: there's no crisis.

797
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 5: He won't do that.

798
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 4: What the discharge petition does it puts a shoe on

799
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 4: the other foot. Yeah, it says, we look, we have

800
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 4: the votes. It's McCarthy who's doing this arcane stuff blocking

801
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 4: it from coming to the floor. What's what's your sense

802
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 4: of how serious this is?

803
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 6: Obstructionism absolutely never works out for Republicans, and I think

804
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,800
Speaker 6: they know that because there's no way, especially in this climate,

805
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 6: that the sort of cultural arbiters, whether let's say hypothetically

806
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 6: Republicans have a really good argument for obstruction here. I

807
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 6: don't know what their final bill is going to look like.

808
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,000
Speaker 6: I think they have some pretty reasonable spending cuts on

809
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 6: the table. But let's just hypothetically say, yes, they have

810
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 6: a good case for obstructing this process. Even so, the

811
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 6: media is so contemptuous of Republican strategy period and Republicans period,

812
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 6: they don't have a good relationship. It's very adversaril serial

813
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 6: right now. The public never likes obstruction period. If you

814
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 6: go talk to average voters, like why is Washington not working?

815
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 3: Why are they not getting anything done?

816
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 6: And so even if Republicans have like some sort of

817
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,399
Speaker 6: complicated answer to that question as to why obstructionism has

818
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 6: to happen here, As you may remember, you know Ted

819
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 6: Kruz his filibuster in the Obamacare days and the Tea

820
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 6: Party days, there's a lot of talk of just obstructing government.

821
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 6: It never worked in the media, it never works with

822
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 6: the public. They want politicians to actually figure out solutions.

823
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,479
Speaker 6: And even if you have a good case to make,

824
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 6: it doesn't fly. And so Democrats know that. Democrats have

825
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 6: known that longer than Republicans have known that. And so

826
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 6: that's why you know, it's smart to put the shoe

827
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 6: on the other foot in whatever way you can, because

828
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 6: it's putting Republicans on their back, on their heels no

829
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 6: matter what, and that works for Democrats no matter what,

830
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 6: which creates leverage for them. And that's why Joe Biden

831
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 6: has said, I am not negotiating on spending cuts. We're

832
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 6: not tying, we're not making it conditional, We're not raising

833
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 6: the debt ceiling conditional on Republicans getting this like wish

834
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,280
Speaker 6: list of spending cuts, because he knows, and Janet Yellen

835
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 6: has warned, actually, I think this is in a letter

836
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 6: on Monday afternoon, that that default on debt could happen as.

837
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 3: Really as June one.

838
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 6: To terrify you just a little bit here, the House

839
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 6: and Senate are in session for a little more than

840
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 6: ten days for the rest of this month. We're in

841
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:10,759
Speaker 6: May now legislative dates. So that's like Joe Biden knows

842
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 6: he can get away with not coming to the table

843
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 6: on this. So I mean, maybe Republicans can squeeze some

844
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 6: tiny concessions out of him, but Democrats have ever reasoned

845
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 6: strategically not to budge because it always backfires on Republicans.

846
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 4: And so then the question for you is can Democrats

847
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,160
Speaker 4: find for Republicans to go along with four or five

848
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 4: Republicans and what would it take to get there, Like

849
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 4: obviously right now no Republicans are interested.

850
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 5: What would it take, What would the stock.

851
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 4: Market have to do, What would the kind of media

852
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,480
Speaker 4: have to do to browbeat four or five moderates into

853
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 4: signing a discharge petition?

854
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 6: It depends on Yeah, they can easily get four to

855
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 6: five moderates, but it depends on I think whether they

856
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 6: come from the moderate wing or the Freedom Caucus wing.

857
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,520
Speaker 3: You know, they can pull four to five Republicans.

858
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 6: I'm just curious as to whether they end up being

859
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,319
Speaker 6: from like the Tuesday Group or from the Freedom.

860
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 5: Caucus come along. That's an interesting idea.

861
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 6: If they get upset about how McCarthy is handling these

862
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 6: negotiations with Biden in the same way that the Twoesday

863
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,200
Speaker 6: Group people could be like, for, screw this with this,

864
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 6: so they can just throw a wrench into everything. And you know,

865
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,959
Speaker 6: he's been good with managing them so far, Like again

866
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 6: from a purely strategic standpoint, he's been remarkably good at

867
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,720
Speaker 6: managing them so far. But you know, if that goes poorly,

868
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 6: because Joe Biden knows that he's got most of the

869
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 6: leverage here, and McCarthy starts, you know, sneaking towards some

870
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 6: type of compromise or giving Biden his way, which I

871
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 6: think he may ultimately have to do. Then maybe they

872
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 6: just say screwt with throwing a wrench with this?

873
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,720
Speaker 4: Could could McCarthy get to a place where he allows

874
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,399
Speaker 4: it to happen? In other words, he could keep them

875
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 4: out on that Monday markets are tanking. He's gotten nowhere

876
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 4: with you know, he can't get his caucus to agree

877
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:01,800
Speaker 4: with the Senate Republicans and with Biden. He's like there's

878
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 4: no path forward. He's got rumblings from a couple of

879
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 4: moderates that they that they want to just move on.

880
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 4: Maybe they get, like you said, some concession about a

881
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:15,840
Speaker 4: continuing resolution from Biden. And McCarthy says, you know what, fine,

882
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 4: I'm gabbling it in.

883
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 5: I'm not putting this on the floor. I didn't do this.

884
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 4: Y'all did this, And he just kind of takes the

885
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 4: l and then survives as speaker because he didn't do it.

886
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 5: Is that is that a possibility or does he have

887
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 5: to go down?

888
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 7: No?

889
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 6: I think it's all possibility because it's all part of it,

890
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 6: and we saw this with the speaker the speaker race.

891
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:41,360
Speaker 6: It's all part of these negotiations. So Kevin McCarthy being like, yeah, okay,

892
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 6: go ahead do it, but I'm going to do this

893
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 6: is I could.

894
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 3: See that becoming part of the.

895
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 6: Negotiations, just as they're from a purely like public relations standpoint,

896
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,439
Speaker 6: as they get closer to knowing what's going to happen,

897
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 6: how the public's going to receive it, anything is possible.

898
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:00,720
Speaker 4: How brutal is it for Republicans who so in that petition,

899
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 4: do they assume they're presumably these are going to be

900
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 4: Republicans ruined districts that Biden won. Do they get kind

901
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 4: of nihilistic right wing challengers who are like, we'd rather

902
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 4: not have the seat at all if we're going to

903
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 4: have a rhino like you Yeah, And would the primary

904
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 4: voters stick with them or are they like, you know what,

905
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 4: we like Nancy Mason, We're glad that she saved the economy.

906
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, it's a district to district type of thing.

907
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 6: But I don't I think, if anything, those sentiments have

908
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 6: only ratcheted up since the Tea Party years. So there

909
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 6: was a huge appetite for obstructionism among the Republican base,

910
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 6: not the general electorate, but the Republican base. And that's

911
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 6: one of the things that's very difficult, and during the

912
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 6: Tea Party years, was very difficult for like a Ted

913
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 6: Cruz who wanted to mount a presidential bid in twenty sixteen,

914
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 6: So that this is exactly what the Republican base wants.

915
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 6: That has not gone anywhere since twenty fourteen, twenty sixteen

916
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 6: to twenty twenty three, but it is less palatable probably

917
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 6: the general public than ever before, even though it's more

918
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 6: in demand among the sort of Republican or conservative movement

919
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 6: activist class because and again, like listen, I think there's

920
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,439
Speaker 6: some good reasons for wanting to have a conditional debt

921
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 6: ceiling increase, obviously, but you don't have the White House,

922
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 6: you don't know the Senate. There's it's you know, it is.

923
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,760
Speaker 4: One of those because McCarthy knows that the other way

924
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 4: that two hundred and eighteen members of Congress could get

925
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: this through is through a motion to vacate. So a

926
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 4: Republican do a motion to vacate the chair. Five minutes later,

927
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 4: they elect Nancy Mace or somebody Speaker of the House

928
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 4: Nancy Mace gavels through a clean debt ceiling increase, and

929
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 4: then they do another motion to vacate, and then they

930
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 4: have another speaker fight because Nancy may Is obviously isn't

931
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 4: going to become Speaker for life. It would then be

932
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,560
Speaker 4: another Republican, whether it's Jordan or McCarthy, wins it back

933
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 4: or something like that. So I think for McCarthy, if

934
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 4: there are two hundred and eighteen people who want this

935
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 4: to get done, it's better for him to kind of

936
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 4: play dead on the discharge petition than to them to

937
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 4: vacate the chair and plow through them.

938
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 6: And in other news, it's just great to see those

939
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 6: Justice Democrats rereading the intercept.

940
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:13,720
Speaker 4: There you go, Keem Jeffries will intercept reader. So Elizabeth

941
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 4: Warren is out with a new report yesterday and put

942
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,280
Speaker 4: up this first element here called big Tech's big con

943
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 4: rigging digital trade rules to block antitrust regulation. I want

944
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 4: to highlight this because it relies on emails that were

945
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:30,800
Speaker 4: foided by the Group Demand Progress between the head of

946
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 4: the USTR and the Deputy head of the USTR, Catherine

947
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 4: Tye and Sarah Bianchi, and big tech lobbyists Amazon, Google,

948
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 4: some of the heaviest hitters, which show a level of

949
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 4: coordination that that they have access to that the public doesn't.

950
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 4: I don't want to be clear about what what the

951
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 4: emails say and what they don't say. We don't we

952
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 4: don't have any smoking guns about them directly kind of

953
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 4: getting particular things in, because all of the emails just say,

954
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 4: good talking with you, here's the call, here's the call in.

955
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 5: I want to give you a briefing on what we.

956
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 4: Just heard from the South Koreans, or hey, when can

957
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:10,719
Speaker 4: you talk about this? So it shows that they're in

958
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 4: regular conversations with these with these big tech lobbyists, particularly

959
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 4: as they're working out what is the kind of the

960
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 4: new TPP what do they call it, the Indo Pacific

961
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 4: Trade Agreement or whatever whatever it is. It's like a

962
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 4: fifth it's bigger than the TP. It's like a fifth

963
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 4: thirteen or fifteen country agreement trying to set set rules

964
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 4: on trade. And it's just it's disturbing to see how

965
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 4: much influence big tech continues to have they seem to

966
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 4: have based on these emails, much more influence on number two.

967
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 4: Sarah Bianki, who herself, as we talked about last week,

968
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,479
Speaker 4: was a was the top lobbyist for Airbnb. Yes, so

969
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:55,759
Speaker 4: she was a gig company lobbyist, but also some connections

970
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 4: to Catherine Tie, who was celebrated at by progressives and

971
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,880
Speaker 4: populists across the board who had worked with her on

972
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 4: the Hill. She was a hillstaffer as somebody who was

973
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 4: going to stand up to big tech and had a

974
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,959
Speaker 4: history of standing up to big tech as a House

975
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,759
Speaker 4: staffer and so. And it's also interesting that Warren would

976
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 4: put this report out because Captain Tie is not exactly

977
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 4: of a tight inner circle member of the kind of

978
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 4: Warren mafia, but she's somebody that people in that world

979
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,919
Speaker 4: are generally sympathetic to, and so to see her willing

980
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 4: to come out with this report is kind of like

981
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,000
Speaker 4: a brushback pitch.

982
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 5: I feel like like we're watching.

983
00:49:38,200 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 4: As this, as this unfolds, don't think that you're going

984
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:44,319
Speaker 4: to be able to just kind of smoothly kind of

985
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 4: get back into the place that you were in twenty fifteen.

986
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, these are really interesting kind of glimpses

987
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 6: into how the democratic process has been totally hijacked by

988
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 6: special interests that aren't accountable to voters. They aren't even

989
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 6: accountable to consumers anymore. Because some of these companies are

990
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 6: so big what they're doing is not in the best

991
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 6: interest of their consumers.

992
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 3: But the consumers have.

993
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 6: No market power to make that known. But what are

994
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 6: you just going to stop using Google?

995
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:11,479
Speaker 3: Good luck?

996
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,800
Speaker 6: Good luck just boycotting Google. I wish you the best

997
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,160
Speaker 6: in your effort. And so when you have power like that,

998
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,200
Speaker 6: so much more power than your consumers, you're not accountable

999
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 6: to a customer base because you have this massive multinational scope,

1000
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 6: then you can do stuff like this, and our democratic

1001
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 6: process in Washington, d C.

1002
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 3: Has allowed that to be exacerbated.

1003
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 4: And if Biyankey were meeting with members of the antitrust community,

1004
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 4: members of the public consumer groups also, then it's like, okay,

1005
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 4: you know what, if you want to meet with everybody

1006
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 4: and be transparent about it, okay, Rather you're not making

1007
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 4: having calls with Amazon and Google on this. But if

1008
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 4: you're having calls with everybody on this and you know,

1009
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 4: and treating it with some level of then okay, then

1010
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 4: I can see it. But that that doesn't.

1011
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 5: Appear to be what's happening based on this report.

1012
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,959
Speaker 6: There's not a lot of money in antitrust lobbying. There's

1013
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 6: not a lot of money in taking on only fund

1014
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 6: Yeah no, I mean it's yeah, yeah, right right right,

1015
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 6: So yeah, and you're not going to have as much

1016
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 6: power the average consumer who might who might benefit from.

1017
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: Those lobbying efforts.

1018
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 6: They're never going to have parody in terms of in

1019
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 6: terms of lobbying because good luck, I can have that money.

1020
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 4: And for people who don't follow as clothes, I'm not kidding, Like, yeah,

1021
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 4: Yelp is one of the kind of leaders in this

1022
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 4: space because big tech has been trying to destroy them

1023
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 4: since they started, like they're the It's actually a miracle

1024
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 4: that Yelp still exists because every company like Yelp that

1025
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,760
Speaker 4: that was birthed in that time period was either crushed

1026
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 4: by the Google and the other ones or absorbed and

1027
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 4: bought up. They have managed to stay both independent and relevant,

1028
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 4: which and so as a result, they've they've become in Washington.

1029
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 6: So clearly nothing needs to change help serve the market

1030
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:06,760
Speaker 6: is working.

1031
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 13: I know.

1032
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 4: That's that's the funny thing that you'll have the Big

1033
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 4: four be like, look, we didn't crush this one yet.

1034
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:14,800
Speaker 5: You don't just leave us alone.

1035
00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 10: They're doing great.

1036
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 4: So moving on to the Tucker Files, the Tucker leaks,

1037
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,360
Speaker 4: the Tucker leaks. Let's go with the Tucker leaks, the

1038
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 4: leak attack. The New York Times published a text from

1039
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,640
Speaker 4: Tucker Carlson last night in an article that to me

1040
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 4: had multiple different elements. We could put up this this

1041
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 4: first one here and why don't we here do we have?

1042
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 5: Let me? Why don't we read it?

1043
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,160
Speaker 6: Here's yeah, so I have something from the New York

1044
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 6: Times right here, they say. In the days, I'm sorry,

1045
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 6: this is from media and the days after Carlson was

1046
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:47,920
Speaker 6: fired from Fox, multiple reports claimed his ouster was in

1047
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 6: part fueled by network leadership learning, as The New York

1048
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,760
Speaker 6: Times put it, of quote highly offensive and crude remarks

1049
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 6: Carlson made. The Times reported that they reviewed some off

1050
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,560
Speaker 6: fair footage of Carlson talking about whether his quote postmenopausal

1051
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 6: fans will approve of his looks, as well as another

1052
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 6: video where he commented that someone else's girlfriend was quote yummy.

1053
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 10: Now.

1054
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 6: Media Matters got those videos and published them yesterday. On

1055
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 6: the heels of Media Matters publishing that video which I

1056
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 6: swear like it looked to me like such a deep fake,

1057
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 6: but apparently it's not. Of Tucker Carlson laying in the

1058
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 6: Fox Nation and saying that they need to improve the product,

1059
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 6: et cetera, et cetera. So why don't we just take

1060
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 6: a look at the at the sad E two here

1061
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,440
Speaker 6: so you can see the video yourself.

1062
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 13: Not you know what, I'm not qualified on that score.

1063
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 13: I will say I thought his girlfriend was kind of yummy.

1064
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 13: Just kidding, just kitting cases is being pulled off the bird.

1065
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, the bird.

1066
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 13: Hey, Media Matters for America, go fuck yourself. That's the

1067
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 13: first thing I want to say tonight. Second thing is

1068
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,239
Speaker 13: totally kidding. I don't even know what his girlfriend looks like,

1069
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 13: and if I did, I would not find her yummy.

1070
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 6: Okay, So that's definitely only why the video got leaked

1071
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 6: to Media Matters, specifically because he like literally flips the

1072
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,800
Speaker 6: middle finger to Media Matters. You're left with no choice

1073
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,479
Speaker 6: at that point. And that's another element of this entire

1074
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 6: stories that it looks like Fox is leaking video and

1075
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 6: it could actually be what gets Tucker out of his

1076
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 6: contract with Fox. He still has two years left on

1077
00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:21,760
Speaker 6: his contract. If they're leaking, and that can be proved,

1078
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,000
Speaker 6: it's sort of probably you're able to talk about that

1079
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 6: as a breach of contract.

1080
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:27,839
Speaker 3: What did you make in the videos?

1081
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 5: Uh.

1082
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 4: I thought that the text was more more interesting, and

1083
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 4: I wanted to get your your take on that as well.

1084
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,239
Speaker 4: If you put up put up E three uh, and

1085
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 4: we'll just read it so we have the full context.

1086
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 4: I actually didn't like the way that the New York

1087
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:46,080
Speaker 4: Times kind of broke the text into two separate stories,

1088
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 4: two separate sections.

1089
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 3: And this came like last night. This was a huge story.

1090
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 6: As we're prepping the still the show last night, this

1091
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 6: released text from from Tucker.

1092
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 5: Right right exactly, and so I'll just read it.

1093
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 4: So Tucker Tucker writes, a couple of weeks ago, I

1094
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 4: was watching video of people fighting on the street in Washington.

1095
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 4: So this is January seventh, twenty twenty one. So he's

1096
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 4: referring to videos that were going around in December, which

1097
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 4: might people might remember, like it was like prow boys

1098
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 4: and their affiliates fighting with antifi on the streets. He writes,

1099
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,879
Speaker 4: A group of Trump guys surrounded in an antifuck kid

1100
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 4: and started pounding the living crap out of him. It

1101
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 4: was three against one at least. Jumping a guy like

1102
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 4: that is dishonorable. Obviously, it's not how white men fight

1103
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 4: and I want to come back to that line. Yet

1104
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 4: suddenly I found myself rooting for the mob against the man,

1105
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 4: hoping they'd hit him harder kill him. I really wanted

1106
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 4: them to hurt the kid. I could taste it. Then

1107
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 4: somewhere in my brain an alarm went off. This isn't

1108
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 4: good for me. I'm becoming something I don't want to be.

1109
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 4: The antifuck creep is a human being. Much as I

1110
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 4: despise what he says and does, much as I'm sure

1111
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,240
Speaker 4: i'd hate him personally if I knew him, I shouldn't

1112
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 4: gloat over his suffering.

1113
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 5: I should be bothered by it.

1114
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 4: I should remember that somewhere somebody probably loves this kid

1115
00:55:59,680 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 4: and would crushed if he was killed. If I don't

1116
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 4: care about those things, if I reduce people to their politics,

1117
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 4: how am I better than he is?

1118
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 5: And so I've seen a.

1119
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 4: Lot of people hitting him for kind of his glorification

1120
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,640
Speaker 4: and celebration of the violence at the top of that.

1121
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 4: But to me, there's some interesting parallels here with the

1122
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 4: Shirley Sharad case.

1123
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 5: If you remember this, Oh.

1124
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 4: This was Brightbart's kind of face plant back in twenty

1125
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 4: eleven or so, where he got video of Shirley Sharad,

1126
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 4: who was a Department of Agriculture employee who gave this

1127
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 4: speech about how very early in his career, in her

1128
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:45,719
Speaker 4: career in Georgia, a white farmer came to her with

1129
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 4: some type of a need and she did not give

1130
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 4: him the kind of service that he deserved due to

1131
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 4: racial bias against him. And she said that she sat

1132
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:01,600
Speaker 4: with that, she thought about it, she realized how wrong

1133
00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 4: it was, and it kind of changed her entire outlook,

1134
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 4: and she decided and she realized that we're all people.

1135
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:11,200
Speaker 5: Everybody.

1136
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:13,719
Speaker 4: Everybody needs as much, you know, everybody needs help, that

1137
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 4: we all struggle. She talks about how she and him

1138
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,240
Speaker 4: became good friends over time, and how this story led

1139
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 4: to her finding a more graceful relationship with race than

1140
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 4: she had had very early on. And I think that

1141
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 4: it's a good thing for people to be honest about

1142
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 4: their feelings and their and their struggle. And I think

1143
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 4: that liberals who are jumping on this part of it now,

1144
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 4: the white people thing, I think is a completely separate

1145
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 4: thing that we should talk about. But liberals who are

1146
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:50,479
Speaker 4: jumping on this should remember that they too have thought

1147
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 4: of their political opponents in deeply callous terms, Like if

1148
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 4: you think about during the pandemic, all of the joking

1149
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 4: about unvaccinated people who died, like those are people who

1150
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 4: similarly had loved ones who were crushed by their loss.

1151
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 4: And so you know, if you were one of those

1152
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 4: people who was doing that and you came back from

1153
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 4: the brink, if you were alarmed by the feelings that

1154
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 4: you were having and it made you rethink the way

1155
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 4: that you were just as he says, you know, defining

1156
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 4: people just by their politics, and you reflected on that

1157
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 4: and changed. And I think that that is a story

1158
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 4: that people should be willing to tell. Now I haven't.

1159
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 4: I didn't see evidence that his reflections manifested themselves or

1160
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 4: expressed themselves in any way on his show.

1161
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,640
Speaker 5: Like I would have loved it if he would.

1162
00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 4: Have gone on air and expressed some of these human

1163
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 4: sympathies toward migrants or toward you know, the even toward.

1164
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 5: The Oberlin Grads that he's always dunking on there.

1165
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 4: We're all humans on this planet struggling to make our

1166
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:08,440
Speaker 4: way in it. And this realization that he expresses in

1167
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:12,560
Speaker 4: this private text didn't to me seem to make it

1168
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 4: onto air.

1169
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting.

1170
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 6: I think if you had him here in front of you,

1171
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 6: he would probably agree that he could have done a

1172
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 6: lot more of that, because you know, this is a

1173
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 6: leaked message from his opponents to make him look bad.

1174
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 6: It's not him trying to make himself look good or

1175
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:30,960
Speaker 6: anything that was supposed to be public. So that obviously

1176
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,919
Speaker 6: gets to the sincerity of what he's saying, the white

1177
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 6: men fight line, that's not how white men fight. The

1178
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 6: context of as you were saying, Ryan, the glorification that

1179
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,959
Speaker 6: people read into the top of the text message of violence, well,

1180
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:50,120
Speaker 6: in the context, what he's doing very clearly is disparaging

1181
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 6: his own wrong mindedness. You know, he's sort of like

1182
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 6: mocking his own thought process and like he's giving me

1183
00:59:58,840 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 6: a caricature of.

1184
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 3: His own thought process.

1185
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 6: And that's why I think, you know, the social media

1186
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,680
Speaker 6: climate makes it so difficult. And people said the same

1187
01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 6: thing about cable news before. I mean, cable news is

1188
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 6: still fairly news. Creation of the eighties mostly makes it

1189
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 6: very difficult for us to have honest versions of these

1190
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 6: conversations because how many tens of thousands of people, if

1191
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 6: not millions of people, saw the that's not how white

1192
01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 6: men fight line and didn't you know, do what we

1193
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 6: have to do because it's our job, and you know,

1194
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 6: spend five minutes thinking about this whole story and read

1195
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:33,120
Speaker 6: the whole context. It just it makes it impossible to

1196
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 6: have that conversation when you know, some section of the

1197
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 6: public just you know, not through any fault of their

1198
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 6: own busy lives, and they care about these issues, so

1199
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 6: they bother to read about them. But you know, if

1200
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 6: we were not all on the same page with information,

1201
01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 6: because social media is putting us on dramatically different pages

1202
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:54,800
Speaker 6: based on where its incentives are. And I think maybe

1203
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 6: if Tucker we're here, I think maybe he would agree

1204
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 6: that cable news is just like a really bad format

1205
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:02,520
Speaker 6: for him to have a conversation like that on. So

1206
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 6: I think it's interesting that this is something that was

1207
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 6: never meant to be public, was leaked by his enemies,

1208
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 6: and again, like his rant about Foxnation just not being

1209
01:01:10,560 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 6: a product that's up to what the audience deserves, and

1210
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 6: he's putting all this work into it, et cetera, et cetera.

1211
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 6: I continue to think these leaks are just like bizarrely

1212
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 6: flattering a Tucker because it just makes him look more

1213
01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 6: sort of thoughtful. Then then I think often comes across

1214
01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:30,520
Speaker 6: for anyone on cable Now.

1215
01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,320
Speaker 4: If right now, So, if this is some type of

1216
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 4: a caricature, implicit caricature of a racist and racialized view

1217
01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:41,400
Speaker 4: of how white men fight, how black men fight out,

1218
01:01:41,400 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 4: brown men fight, or just where.

1219
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,120
Speaker 6: A white man's head goes when he's thinking about this,

1220
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 6: like the Lees, I.

1221
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:52,800
Speaker 5: Have to I'm skeptical of that. It may. I mean,

1222
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 5: maybe it is. To me.

1223
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 4: It struck me as racist in the sense that it's

1224
01:01:59,320 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 4: it's that there that there's something different about the honor

1225
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 4: of white men and how they fight versus other races,

1226
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 4: and that it just isn't true, like as somebody who

1227
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 4: grew up in a rural area with lots of white people,

1228
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:16,600
Speaker 4: like white men are just as likely to jump to

1229
01:02:16,680 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 4: somebody and probably jump a white guys as anybody else.

1230
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:26,200
Speaker 4: And so the idea that he could have just said,

1231
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:31,080
Speaker 4: it's not how honorable people fight. So if he was

1232
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 4: caricaturing a view of white people as particularly honorable and

1233
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 4: then connecting that to his overly politicized kind of prism

1234
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 4: through which he's viewing all of these interactions, then okay,

1235
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:48,280
Speaker 4: But then, like I said, it would also be nice

1236
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 4: to see those epiphanies expressed publicly.

1237
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, I agree, if that's really what they are, well,

1238
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 6: and I.

1239
01:02:57,120 --> 01:02:58,080
Speaker 3: Guess maybe I misspoke.

1240
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 6: I didn't mean that he's caricaturing the sort of like

1241
01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:04,440
Speaker 6: average white man's mindset so much as he is talking

1242
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 6: about where we naturally go, as like tribalistic individuals, where

1243
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:10,760
Speaker 6: our brain will naturally go, which.

1244
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,840
Speaker 3: Is well, is not how white men fight.

1245
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 6: Which is like obviously a terrible impulse and instinct to have.

1246
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:20,800
Speaker 3: That's yeah, absolutely terrible as that.

1247
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,200
Speaker 4: Then that can be an interesting kind of self exploration

1248
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 4: and where where is that self examination?

1249
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:30,880
Speaker 6: And I think where he lands is what makes that

1250
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:33,720
Speaker 6: context important, like where he lands in the thought process.

1251
01:03:33,760 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 6: And so you know, the bottom line is that neither

1252
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,040
Speaker 6: of us can get into the head.

1253
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 5: Of maybe he'll come on and we can we can

1254
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 5: ask him about this.

1255
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 6: We love that, and none of us can get into

1256
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:45,640
Speaker 6: his head obviously, But I continue to think there's just

1257
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,840
Speaker 6: absolutely no truth to the story that this is why

1258
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 6: he was fired from Fox News. I actually think the

1259
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 6: Vanity Fair report is the closest to the truth that

1260
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:59,680
Speaker 6: Rupert Murdoch was uncomfortable with the fiance he just broke

1261
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:00,480
Speaker 6: up with.

1262
01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:03,959
Speaker 4: Loving Tucker said that Tucker was a voice of God,

1263
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 4: having this sort of like voice of.

1264
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 6: God, right, this this evangelical attachment to Tucker. Tucker go

1265
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 6: to the Heritage Foundation that Friday after signing off his show,

1266
01:04:12,280 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 6: saying see you next week, just having had a great

1267
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:19,480
Speaker 6: meeting with Rupert Murdoch, Lachlan Murdoch. Rupert Murdoch sees that

1268
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 6: he gives this very spiritual Christian speech at the Heritage Foundation,

1269
01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 6: and it's like there's this kind of you know, when

1270
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,800
Speaker 6: you're a ninety two year old eccentric billionaire, you make

1271
01:04:31,840 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 6: impulsive and bad decisions business wise, and he'd had enough

1272
01:04:35,160 --> 01:04:37,960
Speaker 6: of Tucker Carlson. Obviously, I'm sure the lawsuits like have

1273
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:40,640
Speaker 6: been such headaches for Fox that it contributed to his

1274
01:04:40,720 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 6: exasperation with Tucker Carlson. But they have had these videos.

1275
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 6: They have known about these videos for a very long time.

1276
01:04:47,600 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 6: It was not just that they got this information over

1277
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 6: that weekend. As Megan Kelly has pointed out. I think

1278
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:55,080
Speaker 6: that's a really important point, and it goes to the

1279
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,280
Speaker 6: fact that this is this is a.

1280
01:04:57,160 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 3: Line that Fox is pushing to the media, and that is.

1281
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 6: They're leaking these videos because they think it makes them

1282
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 6: look good for having said enough is enough, and it's.

1283
01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,880
Speaker 4: Not that different than the types of things anyway.

1284
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,000
Speaker 3: No, like yeah, no, I agree.

1285
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:15,400
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1286
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 4: So anyway, so what are you looking at today?

1287
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:20,200
Speaker 6: I'm going to talk about the Southern Poverty Law Center.

1288
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,440
Speaker 6: I think, frankly this is getting basically no media attention.

1289
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 6: But the Southern Poverty Law Center, as you know Ryan,

1290
01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 6: is like an extremely powerful left of center nonprofit. Basically,

1291
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:33,680
Speaker 6: everybody who's listening to the show and watching the show

1292
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 6: knows about the SPLC because the media cites them constantly

1293
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 6: as the go to source on tracking hate groups. They're

1294
01:05:42,320 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 6: actually I pulled the CNN article from right after Charlottesville,

1295
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:50,200
Speaker 6: all the way back then they said here are all

1296
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:51,800
Speaker 6: the active hate groups where you live. That was just

1297
01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:54,720
Speaker 6: the headline, and in the story it said, since the

1298
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 6: FBI doesn't keep track of domestic hate groups, the SPLC's

1299
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 6: tally is the widely accepted one.

1300
01:05:59,160 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 3: And you know what, that's that's true. I went back.

1301
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:04,440
Speaker 6: They actually changed that line in the article to distance

1302
01:06:04,520 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 6: themselves from the SPLC and to make it less like

1303
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,760
Speaker 6: a full endorsement of the SPLC, where they they're outsourcing

1304
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 6: their hate group tracking to the SPLC, which is good

1305
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 6: that they made that correction, but very telling that they

1306
01:06:16,360 --> 01:06:18,200
Speaker 6: wrote about it this way in the first place, because

1307
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,520
Speaker 6: the SPLC has long been seen as the authority on

1308
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:24,560
Speaker 6: these things. Now you can read Harper's, you can read

1309
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 6: the work of liberal journalist Ken Silverstein, who has been

1310
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 6: writing for decades now about all of the problems at

1311
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:34,240
Speaker 6: the SPLC. The co founder, Morris D's, as people might remember,

1312
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,120
Speaker 6: might even recognize his name, He was ousted back in

1313
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 6: twenty nineteen for like workplace violations. So there have been

1314
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,040
Speaker 6: a lot of problems inside the SPLC for a really,

1315
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,280
Speaker 6: really long time. But they still have a seven hundred

1316
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,320
Speaker 6: and thirty one million dollar endowment. They have almost a

1317
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 6: billion dollar endowment. The level of power that comes with

1318
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 6: that kind of money is like unfathomable to most other

1319
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 6: non profits. But on April twenty fourth, I think there

1320
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 6: was finally a really serious indication that the SPLC might

1321
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:11,720
Speaker 6: be coming into a more difficult season in its existence,

1322
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 6: especially since it has been basking in positive media coverage

1323
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 6: for several decades now. So this fifty five page opinion

1324
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:22,640
Speaker 6: from federal Judge William Keith Watkins. He's from Alabama's Middle

1325
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:26,280
Speaker 6: District Federal Court to.

1326
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 3: Checking this out. It's really really interesting, he says.

1327
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:33,760
Speaker 6: He concludes, because the SPLC motioned to dismiss this lawsuit

1328
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 6: from a group called the Dustin Inmand Society, it is

1329
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,800
Speaker 6: an anti immigrant group. It's probably the best way to

1330
01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 6: put it. The SPLC calls it an anti immigrant hate group.

1331
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 6: As you can see up on the screen.

1332
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:45,880
Speaker 3: He says.

1333
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 6: Plaintiffs have nudged their defamation claims premised on SPLC's destination

1334
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:53,400
Speaker 6: designation of the Dustin Inman Society as quote an anti

1335
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 6: immigrant hate group across the line from conceivable to plausible.

1336
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 6: Other claims and issues are deferred until summary judgment as discussed. Okay,

1337
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:06,320
Speaker 6: So that means this lawsuit, I believe it's the first

1338
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,120
Speaker 6: time that the SPLC, a lot a defamation lawsuit against

1339
01:08:09,160 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 6: the SPLC has gone into discovery. And it comes down

1340
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 6: to the SPLC's designation of this anti immigrant group as

1341
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 6: an anti immigrant hate group. And the SPLC makes, I think,

1342
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 6: an absolutely crucial admission in its effort to dismiss the case.

1343
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 6: Its defense of itself is that these are only opinions.

1344
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:34,720
Speaker 3: This is a quote from This is a quote from the.

1345
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 6: Decision that was rendered or the opinion that was rendered

1346
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 6: by Judge Watkins in Alabama. The SPLC argues that labeling

1347
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:47,000
Speaker 6: the Dustin Inman Society as an anti immigrant hate group

1348
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,439
Speaker 6: is quote an expression of opinion protected under the First Amendment.

1349
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 6: That is a quote from the SPLC, because the term

1350
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:56,639
Speaker 6: anti immigrant hate group quote is not capable of being

1351
01:08:56,680 --> 01:09:00,920
Speaker 6: empirically proven true or false. This is going to be

1352
01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:04,960
Speaker 6: a fascinating suit because it puts to the test that

1353
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 6: designation of opinion and the SPLC, I mean, well, duh right,

1354
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 6: Like we know, we have known for a very long time.

1355
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 6: Ken Silverstein has written for a very long time. Let

1356
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 6: me pull up a quote from one of his great

1357
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:19,760
Speaker 6: Harper's pieces. This is something he wrote in twenty ten,

1358
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:23,280
Speaker 6: reflecting on something all very long investigation he had written

1359
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:25,799
Speaker 6: in two thousand into the inner workings of the SPLC,

1360
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:28,839
Speaker 6: and it's some of its unethical fundraising practices.

1361
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:30,839
Speaker 3: He writes, I feel that the Law Center is essentially

1362
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 3: a fraud, that it.

1363
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,719
Speaker 6: Has a habit of casually labeling organizations as hate groups,

1364
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:37,719
Speaker 6: which doesn't mean that some of the groups it criticizes

1365
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 6: aren't reprehensible in doing so. The SPLC shuts down debates

1366
01:09:41,120 --> 01:09:43,360
Speaker 6: stifles free speech, and most of all, raises a pile

1367
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:46,400
Speaker 6: of money, very little of which is used on behalf

1368
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 6: of poor people.

1369
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:49,679
Speaker 3: Key key point.

1370
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:54,920
Speaker 6: The SPLC was fueling this definition inflation that has come

1371
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:57,760
Speaker 6: to dominate our politics and is the source of a

1372
01:09:57,800 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 6: lot of rancor that instead of saying people who oppose

1373
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 6: illegal immigration are mere opponents of illegal immigration, you say,

1374
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 6: because you oppose illegal immigration, you are necessarily also racist

1375
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 6: and bigoted. The SPLC has long fueled that, it has

1376
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 6: laundered those designations into the corporate press as objectively true.

1377
01:10:19,360 --> 01:10:20,640
Speaker 3: And that CNN.

1378
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:22,080
Speaker 6: Headline where it says, here's all the hate groups in

1379
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:25,080
Speaker 6: your area is a great example of how the impulse

1380
01:10:25,080 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 6: among journalists for years has been to outsource, you know,

1381
01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:30,600
Speaker 6: not just to the FBI, but to see the SPLC,

1382
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 6: because you know, the FPI doesn't do this to the

1383
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 6: FBI doesn't do this, to see the SPLC on the

1384
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,000
Speaker 6: same level as like law enforcement.

1385
01:10:39,400 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 3: And the judge talks about.

1386
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:44,679
Speaker 6: In this fifty five page opinion, how any reasonable person

1387
01:10:44,840 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 6: looking at the investigations and the resources that the SPLC

1388
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:53,479
Speaker 6: itself promotes, its hate maps and its hate designations as

1389
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:56,160
Speaker 6: being rooted in would say, oh, well, this.

1390
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 3: Is this is this is not this is not punditry.

1391
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 3: This is clearly an effort to be objective.

1392
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 6: This is clearly an effort to do you know, some

1393
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 6: like version of objective reporting on where hate groups are.

1394
01:11:10,200 --> 01:11:14,880
Speaker 6: So again, this is this is another great quote. First,

1395
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 6: the SPLC does not advertise itself as a political pundit

1396
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:20,919
Speaker 6: this from the judge. To the contrary, SPLC self proclaims

1397
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 6: that it is the premier US nonprofit organization monitoring the

1398
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 6: activities of domestic hate groups and other extremists, and that

1399
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:31,160
Speaker 6: it possesses quote key intelligence, offers expert analysis to the

1400
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 6: media and public and publishers, and investigative reports, and trains

1401
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,799
Speaker 6: law enforcement officers. That is not a description of punditry.

1402
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 6: So again, all of this is going to be put

1403
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:43,480
Speaker 6: to the test. Finally, when it comes to the SPLC.

1404
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,400
Speaker 6: What I think the big takeaway from the story is

1405
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,960
Speaker 6: right now, I mean for years, I mean I've written

1406
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:51,599
Speaker 6: about how reprehensible I think it isn't fraudulent it is

1407
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,479
Speaker 6: for the SPLC to label as it does a lot

1408
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:57,680
Speaker 6: of Christian groups that have views on traditional marriage that

1409
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 6: we used to just say constituted disagreement about traditional marriage

1410
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 6: claim that hatred and bigotry the same thing with immigrant groups.

1411
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 6: There are a lot of active hate groups in this country,

1412
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:11,120
Speaker 6: but it is not in any way helpful to the

1413
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:16,800
Speaker 6: cause of eradicating hate to conflate mere political disagreements, even

1414
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:18,800
Speaker 6: though you may find the opponent, you know, to have

1415
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:21,680
Speaker 6: a reprehensible viewpoint in themselves, to say that that is

1416
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:26,200
Speaker 6: necessarily rooted in bigotry is obviously not helpful to the country.

1417
01:12:26,240 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 6: But more importantly, I think it's fascinating to see, or

1418
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 6: it will be fascinating to see how the media handles

1419
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 6: this now that they have for years been using the

1420
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,040
Speaker 6: SPLC as an objective source of what is hate what

1421
01:12:37,160 --> 01:12:39,600
Speaker 6: is a hate group for them to reckon with the

1422
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 6: fact that the SPLC, in its own defense of its activity,

1423
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:46,759
Speaker 6: is saying, hey, it's all opinion, I think this really

1424
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 6: puts a new burden on media coverage because they basically

1425
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,559
Speaker 6: just rely on the SPLC to talk about hate groups.

1426
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:57,920
Speaker 6: So as that comes to the forefront of media coverage

1427
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 6: in the future, it's going to be I think really

1428
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:04,600
Speaker 6: fascinating to see how media covers that Ryan SBOC has

1429
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:06,600
Speaker 6: been around for a really long time. They, especially in

1430
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 6: the early days did some really good work. Now, Ryan,

1431
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 6: this is a polarizing question apparently, but I just like

1432
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 6: tossing it to you with what's your point to.

1433
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:20,679
Speaker 4: That something extraordinary is happening in Haiti, though you wouldn't

1434
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 4: know much about it watching the news here in the

1435
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 4: United States. It's impossible to know where this is heading,

1436
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:28,960
Speaker 4: but it looks like potentially the stirrings of a new revolution.

1437
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:32,880
Speaker 4: Over the last few months, after the last elected officials

1438
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 4: in Haiti left office, leaving only completely illegitimate rulers, the

1439
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:40,719
Speaker 4: de facto government began openly admitting that it had lost

1440
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 4: control of entire areas of Port of Prince, seeding them

1441
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:47,960
Speaker 4: over to gangs. Now that only increased the gang warfare

1442
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 4: as rival groups jockeyed for supremacy, kidnappings and killings skyrocketed.

1443
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:55,880
Speaker 4: Getting kidnapped had become a risk of daily life in

1444
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 4: the city in a way it hadn't been before. And

1445
01:13:58,880 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 4: the immediate target of this new revolution is the gangs,

1446
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 4: and gang members are bearing the brunt of the violence,

1447
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 4: but the public's iire has also been directed at US

1448
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 4: backed Prime Minister Ariel Henri, who is credibly accused of

1449
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:13,960
Speaker 4: playing a role in the assassination of the previous president,

1450
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 4: Jovenel Moiz. Now the pushback has played out in brutal fashion.

1451
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:21,679
Speaker 4: As the gangs tried to extend their control last week,

1452
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 4: something they didn't expect hit them back.

1453
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 5: That's people.

1454
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 4: The first major event came after police arrested just over

1455
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 4: a dozen gang members and were transporting them back to

1456
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:34,479
Speaker 4: the station when a crowd stopped the vehicles and surrounded them.

1457
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:37,839
Speaker 4: It's unclear yet if the police coordinated with the neighborhood residents,

1458
01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,479
Speaker 4: and we're not going to play images of what happened there,

1459
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,759
Speaker 4: but the gang members were pulled off the vehicles, beaten

1460
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 4: and burned in a pile of tires. From there, the

1461
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 4: fury has spread, with civilians realizing that the poorly trained

1462
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,639
Speaker 4: gang members may be more heavily armed, but are badly

1463
01:14:53,680 --> 01:15:12,599
Speaker 4: outnumbered and could be overpowered. It's every government's worst nightmare,

1464
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 4: and now it's becoming the gang's worst nightmare. Here's one

1465
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:17,639
Speaker 4: video that we do want to play because it gives

1466
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:20,719
Speaker 4: you a sense of the pulsing energy behind this new movement.

1467
01:15:30,160 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 5: The movement is.

1468
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:34,160
Speaker 4: Now being called Woa Calais, and Haitians following it closely

1469
01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 4: say that the name was coined spontaneously when video of

1470
01:15:37,439 --> 01:15:39,759
Speaker 4: this woman ricocheted around the island.

1471
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 3: Ae lo alleh.

1472
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:50,080
Speaker 4: Al woaclay roughly means chop wood, which resonates with Haitians,

1473
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:52,599
Speaker 4: who still take pride in the gathering of enslaved people

1474
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:55,560
Speaker 4: on August fourteenth, seventeen ninety one, in an area of

1475
01:15:55,600 --> 01:15:58,640
Speaker 4: the forest known as Woa Khayaman, where they plotted a

1476
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 4: successful revolution overthrowing slavery and freeing themselves. There have been

1477
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 4: multiple uprisings since as colonizing powers have repeatedly tried to

1478
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:10,599
Speaker 4: force Haitians back into submission and have impoverished them in

1479
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:14,040
Speaker 4: the process. The current crisis dates to July seventh, twenty

1480
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 4: twenty one, when Colombian mercenaries assassinated the Haitian president, Joseph Bodioh.

1481
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 4: The man accused of orchestrating it, made two calls early

1482
01:16:22,880 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 4: that morning in the wake of the assassination to Ariel Onrie.

1483
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 4: New investigation published yesterday by the Center for Economic Policy

1484
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 4: and Research, which does great work when it comes to

1485
01:16:31,520 --> 01:16:34,719
Speaker 4: research in the Caribbean and Central America, reported that Joseph

1486
01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:38,160
Speaker 4: Boddiou had also ridden in the convoy on the way

1487
01:16:38,160 --> 01:16:41,040
Speaker 4: to the president's home the early morning of the assassination,

1488
01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:44,120
Speaker 4: and had been in touch many times in the preceding

1489
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:47,240
Speaker 4: two weeks with Arielnrie and then called him after the killing.

1490
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 4: Henri has fired judges and prosecutors who have tried to

1491
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,880
Speaker 4: expose his role in the killing. As Prime minister, he

1492
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,160
Speaker 4: was not in line to become president, but in the

1493
01:16:56,200 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 4: wake of the assassination in the United States, with its

1494
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:01,479
Speaker 4: European partners, put out a statements saying they would recognize

1495
01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:04,720
Speaker 4: him as the official leader. US Envoy to Haiti Dan

1496
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:08,559
Speaker 4: Foot soon resigned in protest, saying that the US only

1497
01:17:08,640 --> 01:17:12,480
Speaker 4: anointed Henri leader because Henri was willing to accept planeloads

1498
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 4: of Haitian migrants from the Biden administration. Six months ago,

1499
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 4: in an interview with US here on Counterpoints, Foot warned

1500
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:22,920
Speaker 4: that Haitians might soon take matters into their own hands.

1501
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:28,720
Speaker 12: I believe that the Haiti people are going to not

1502
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:31,799
Speaker 12: take kindly to that, and we may wind up fighting

1503
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:36,240
Speaker 12: the Haitian people who believe that we're supporting a dictator

1504
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:38,080
Speaker 12: who's not their interests.

1505
01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 4: And it is the US not supporting a Haitian driven

1506
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 4: solution because they rely on having Ariel Henri in there

1507
01:17:47,080 --> 01:17:52,959
Speaker 4: so that the Biden administration can continue its deportation policy.

1508
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:55,400
Speaker 12: That's my best guess.

1509
01:17:55,479 --> 01:17:55,719
Speaker 8: Ryan.

1510
01:17:55,800 --> 01:18:02,280
Speaker 12: It's almost unfathomable that all Haitians are calling for a

1511
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 12: different solution, yet the US and the UN and internationals

1512
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 12: are are blindly stumbling through with Ariel Ree has got

1513
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 12: to be because he has promised to be compliant. But

1514
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:22,000
Speaker 12: we're going to have a civil uprising in Haiti, similar

1515
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:25,439
Speaker 12: to nineteen fifteen when we sent the Marines in for

1516
01:18:25,479 --> 01:18:28,559
Speaker 12: the first time and administered Haiti for almost twenty years.

1517
01:18:28,880 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 12: In nineteen fifty hey fifteen, Haiti was in a similar

1518
01:18:32,400 --> 01:18:36,160
Speaker 12: position and they went up to the French embassy of

1519
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:40,879
Speaker 12: the time where legation and they dragged the president, President

1520
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 12: sam Out, and they tore him limb from limb on

1521
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:46,160
Speaker 12: the streets. And I fear that you're going to see

1522
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 12: something similar with Arielnrie, or with a foreign course that's

1523
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:55,680
Speaker 12: sent in there to propagate his government and kind of

1524
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:57,599
Speaker 12: keep him in power.

1525
01:18:58,840 --> 01:19:02,600
Speaker 4: Aril Honrae, perhaps not surprisingly, has come out against the

1526
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:07,519
Speaker 4: Bois Calais movement. The Miami Herald predictably called for outside intervention.

1527
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:11,040
Speaker 4: But the mistake there is thinking that the problem is

1528
01:19:11,080 --> 01:19:14,080
Speaker 4: that the US has neglected Haiti or not paid enough attention,

1529
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:18,559
Speaker 4: when in fact, US attention has been Haiti's biggest problem now.

1530
01:19:18,600 --> 01:19:21,280
Speaker 4: So far, the movement appears to be largely leaderless, and

1531
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:24,080
Speaker 4: it involves a small number of police who are trusted

1532
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 4: by the community working in tandem with them. I'm told

1533
01:19:27,080 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 4: one SWAT officer in particular, who everybody calls sniper, has

1534
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:32,680
Speaker 4: become something of a folk here and has taken the

1535
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:35,680
Speaker 4: lead and a lot of these actions. There's also one commissioner,

1536
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:39,160
Speaker 4: Jean Muskadin, who has previously taken an aggressive approach to

1537
01:19:39,200 --> 01:19:42,599
Speaker 4: gangs in his district. Accused of involvement with extra judicial killings.

1538
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:46,400
Speaker 4: He's since become associated with Bois Calais, with people warning

1539
01:19:46,439 --> 01:19:49,760
Speaker 4: gang members they need to either turn themselves into Muskadin

1540
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:56,000
Speaker 4: or they're going to face mob justice. So I think

1541
01:19:56,000 --> 01:20:00,439
Speaker 4: it's useful for us to do this coverage without judgment,

1542
01:20:00,720 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 4: to just lay out like this is.

1543
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:03,760
Speaker 5: What we're here.

1544
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 4: I will Happy Press Freedom Day to all who celebrate.

1545
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:12,640
Speaker 4: Here is how President Joe Biden celebrated the day this

1546
01:20:12,720 --> 01:20:15,639
Speaker 4: weekend at the White House Correspondence dinner tonight.

1547
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:25,519
Speaker 14: Our message is this journalism is not a crime Evan

1548
01:20:25,600 --> 01:20:29,479
Speaker 14: and Austin. She released immediately along with every other American.

1549
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:32,640
Speaker 14: Hell hostage are wrong, we detained abroad.

1550
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 4: He left out an Australian held hostage and wrongfully detained

1551
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:40,920
Speaker 4: abroad at the behest of.

1552
01:20:40,680 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 5: The United States.

1553
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:44,720
Speaker 4: And so we're joined now by Ann Wilcox, who is

1554
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 4: head of DC Action for Assange. Because to mark Press

1555
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:52,080
Speaker 4: Freedom Day, there will be rallies across the country here

1556
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:54,720
Speaker 4: in Washington at the Department of Justice at noon, but

1557
01:20:54,880 --> 01:20:58,760
Speaker 4: also across the country calling for Merrick Garland to drop

1558
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:02,799
Speaker 4: the charges and drop the ex tradition effort against Julian Assange.

1559
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,840
Speaker 4: But and welcome to the show.

1560
01:21:05,880 --> 01:21:07,479
Speaker 5: Thank you for joining us, Thanks for having us.

1561
01:21:07,560 --> 01:21:07,840
Speaker 10: Thank you.

1562
01:21:08,840 --> 01:21:14,400
Speaker 4: So what was your reaction when you heard from President

1563
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 4: Biden saying that journalism is not a crime.

1564
01:21:16,520 --> 01:21:19,479
Speaker 7: Oh, the hypocrisy is just so obvious and stark. We

1565
01:21:19,520 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 7: were actually outside the press dinner, the Correspondent's Dinner at

1566
01:21:23,000 --> 01:21:26,400
Speaker 7: the Hilton, with a huge free Assange banner. Many of

1567
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:28,559
Speaker 7: them saw when they came in, So we were there

1568
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:33,200
Speaker 7: before the environmentalists sort of showed up in large numbers,

1569
01:21:33,560 --> 01:21:35,599
Speaker 7: so we were actually talking to them, you know, people

1570
01:21:35,640 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 7: like Martha Rattitz, who's a national security journalist.

1571
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 10: We said, free Assange.

1572
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:43,320
Speaker 7: So the hypocrisy of his statement talking about Evan Gershowitz

1573
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 7: and also Austin Tice, who's been, you know, missing for

1574
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 7: ten years. We do want freed, absolutely, We're a free

1575
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:52,840
Speaker 7: journalist and have them to be protected, but the press

1576
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,599
Speaker 7: should be supported. And for him to make that statement

1577
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:58,040
Speaker 7: just showed the depth of the hypocrisy while his Justice

1578
01:21:58,040 --> 01:22:01,240
Speaker 7: Department continues to try to extradite Assange back to the

1579
01:22:01,320 --> 01:22:02,120
Speaker 7: US for trial.

1580
01:22:02,439 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 6: And it's a really fascinating quote because he says journalism

1581
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 6: must be protected, and this comes down to the definition

1582
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:10,040
Speaker 6: of what is journalism. And when he was part of

1583
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:12,400
Speaker 6: the Obama administration, we know that they had a very

1584
01:22:12,439 --> 01:22:15,360
Speaker 6: big debate about the so called New York Times problem

1585
01:22:15,400 --> 01:22:18,120
Speaker 6: about how you legally if you go after a songe

1586
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:20,679
Speaker 6: then you have a real problem with the New York

1587
01:22:20,760 --> 01:22:22,720
Speaker 6: Times itself one of the biggest papers in the world,

1588
01:22:22,760 --> 01:22:24,719
Speaker 6: if not the biggest paper in the world in the world.

1589
01:22:24,960 --> 01:22:27,160
Speaker 6: So maybe just if we go back to that basic

1590
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 6: question of why Julian Assange is a journalist who deserves

1591
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:33,720
Speaker 6: protection and why what he is doing is journalism, what

1592
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:34,760
Speaker 6: would you say.

1593
01:22:34,479 --> 01:22:35,439
Speaker 10: Well, he is a journalist.

1594
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:38,080
Speaker 7: He was presenting documents which were in the national interests,

1595
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 7: which showed war crimes in i Rock and Afghanistan. This

1596
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 7: material is released to journalists all the time, every day.

1597
01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 7: They used sort of leaked information. But there's also an

1598
01:22:47,439 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 7: overclassification of information. So you say these documents are classified,

1599
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 7: what is the definition of that. He's now charged into

1600
01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 7: the Espionage Act and when that was enacted, there was

1601
01:22:57,240 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 7: no such thing.

1602
01:22:57,840 --> 01:22:59,080
Speaker 10: As classified information.

1603
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:01,320
Speaker 7: So they're really kind of having it both ways in

1604
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 7: terms of what journalism is. And Marjorie Khne, who's the

1605
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:08,719
Speaker 7: former president of the National Lawyers Guild, wrote an excellent

1606
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:11,600
Speaker 7: article on truth Out just after the dinner showing the

1607
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 7: absurdity of what Biden says. And you know, they continue

1608
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 7: to press for Assange's extradition to the US for this trial,

1609
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:20,960
Speaker 7: which would be in the Eastern District of Virginia. It

1610
01:23:20,960 --> 01:23:23,479
Speaker 7: would be kind of a show trial. It's funny because

1611
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 7: the press doesn't cover our actions now, but once Julian

1612
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:28,479
Speaker 7: Osange is here and on trial, I think it'll be

1613
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:29,680
Speaker 7: on the news every night.

1614
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:32,880
Speaker 4: And so help us understand the disconnect. How is it

1615
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 4: that a the president felt comfortable making that claim in

1616
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 4: front of a room full of journalists who could have booed,

1617
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:46,400
Speaker 4: who could have chanted at him, who could have said

1618
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:52,759
Speaker 4: demanded that Julian Assange be freed, but felt comfortable enough

1619
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:56,200
Speaker 4: that that would not happen that he went ahead with it.

1620
01:23:56,240 --> 01:23:59,280
Speaker 4: And what were your conversations like with the journalists outside.

1621
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:02,080
Speaker 7: Right, Well, the problem is we think, first of all,

1622
01:24:02,200 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 7: institutions like the National Press Club have not supported as songe,

1623
01:24:05,720 --> 01:24:07,719
Speaker 7: and that'll be one of the places we visit today

1624
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 7: on our little march. We're going from the DOJ to

1625
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:12,479
Speaker 7: the National Press Club to the Washington Post, which also

1626
01:24:13,040 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 7: has not spoken out strongly for a songe. But the

1627
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:18,879
Speaker 7: fact is they talk about Austin Tice.

1628
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:21,280
Speaker 10: They have briefly called for an investigation in a.

1629
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 7: Scharina Bulaclas's death, which is important, But the establishment has

1630
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,200
Speaker 7: not supported a soannge, and so they could ignore us.

1631
01:24:28,240 --> 01:24:30,360
Speaker 7: They heard what we were saying when we came in.

1632
01:24:30,680 --> 01:24:33,919
Speaker 7: But there, you know, we think that during the Pompeio,

1633
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:37,840
Speaker 7: when POMPEII was CIA director, the national security establishment turned

1634
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:42,479
Speaker 7: against Assange. They didn't like the Vault seven releases, although

1635
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 7: the indictment doesn't include that material, it's earlier material, but

1636
01:24:46,640 --> 01:24:48,880
Speaker 7: that's when the CIA turned against him, and they just

1637
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 7: seemed like a dog with a bone.

1638
01:24:50,560 --> 01:24:52,600
Speaker 10: They do not want to let go of this indictment,

1639
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:54,479
Speaker 10: and so we're out in front of it.

1640
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:56,720
Speaker 7: We go to Merrick Garland's home twice a month on

1641
01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:00,320
Speaker 7: a Sunday with huge banners they say Merrit Garland Free song,

1642
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 7: and he and his guests and his family members see this.

1643
01:25:04,240 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 7: It hasn't so far, it hasn't moved them to you know,

1644
01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 7: withdraw drop the extradition request.

1645
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:11,400
Speaker 4: Can you talk a little bit about Vault seven because

1646
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:15,080
Speaker 4: I think that people don't appreciate the importance of Vault

1647
01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:17,880
Speaker 4: seven because when it was published, there was so much

1648
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:20,320
Speaker 4: going on in the world that most people, I don't

1649
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 4: think even remember the revelations, you know, seismic as they were.

1650
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:28,479
Speaker 4: And that is my understanding as well, is that that

1651
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:31,040
Speaker 4: was the thing that was kind of the last straw

1652
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 4: for the national security establishment.

1653
01:25:33,240 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 10: Yeah. Well, again, I'm not an expert.

1654
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:38,160
Speaker 7: You should get our colleague John Kiriac to come in

1655
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:40,720
Speaker 7: and talk about this, or Jesslin Radak, but it's my

1656
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:44,439
Speaker 7: understanding that also released sources and methods, you know, ways

1657
01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 7: that there were cyber hacking going on. There were ways

1658
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:51,439
Speaker 7: that the CI was listening to our signal phones, which

1659
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:54,960
Speaker 7: we think are secure, and other websites, and so it

1660
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:56,840
Speaker 7: just revealed a little bit too much about what the

1661
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:57,799
Speaker 7: CIA was doing.

1662
01:25:57,960 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 4: And to me, my understanding is that was more embarrassing

1663
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 4: than anything else. That the CIA for a very long

1664
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:08,639
Speaker 4: time had been internally mocking the State Department, which could

1665
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:11,880
Speaker 4: keep track of its cables, mocking the Pentagon, which couldn't

1666
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:14,840
Speaker 4: keep track of its evidence of war crimes. But we

1667
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,439
Speaker 4: over here at the CIA, nobody's going to get our stuff.

1668
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 4: And then somebody inside the CIA leaks is what they

1669
01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:27,240
Speaker 4: end up calling Vault seven, which, in Wikile's defense, they

1670
01:26:27,280 --> 01:26:29,760
Speaker 4: did not release the kind of underlying code so that

1671
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:33,080
Speaker 4: it wasn't as if other hackers could use any of

1672
01:26:33,080 --> 01:26:37,240
Speaker 4: the code and then deploy these powerful tools around the world.

1673
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:40,960
Speaker 4: But what they did do is expose what the CIA

1674
01:26:41,120 --> 01:26:44,920
Speaker 4: was doing that previously had been kept secret. And it

1675
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 4: was almost more embarrassment, I think than anything else.

1676
01:26:48,040 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, they didn't like being embarrassed, and Pompeo kind of

1677
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:53,479
Speaker 7: took it seriously or took it personally. Let me say

1678
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 7: that while I have a moment, I just want to

1679
01:26:55,320 --> 01:26:58,440
Speaker 7: really quickly point your viewers to the Assage Defense website

1680
01:26:58,680 --> 01:27:01,840
Speaker 7: for events so that they'll know what the events are

1681
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:03,000
Speaker 7: that are going on today.

1682
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 10: You know, we're doing our little march around Washington, d C.

1683
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:10,040
Speaker 7: From the DOJ to the Press Club to the Washington

1684
01:27:10,080 --> 01:27:12,679
Speaker 7: Post from twelve to two. But also in New York

1685
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,120
Speaker 7: there will be a rallied MSNBC, which of course is

1686
01:27:15,160 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 7: part of this this monolithic press.

1687
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 6: Yes, at thirty Rock and the CIA and FBI guys

1688
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 6: coming out of the MSS.

1689
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 7: Yeah, they'll be comfortable with that, and Chris Hedges is

1690
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:31,720
Speaker 7: going to be their great speaker. And also in LA

1691
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 7: they're going to do a die in outside the one

1692
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 7: of the press headquarters. And finally in Chicago, Kevin Gostela,

1693
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:40,800
Speaker 7: who's written a new book called Guilty of Journalism, He's

1694
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,599
Speaker 7: doing a webinar sponsored by the Chicago Group and that'll

1695
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 7: be online for everyone to view. So go to as

1696
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:48,960
Speaker 7: Songe Deefense dot org slash events and you can see

1697
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:50,439
Speaker 7: all of these events.

1698
01:27:51,000 --> 01:27:53,759
Speaker 5: Did you get any engagement with the Martha Raditts types?

1699
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 5: What did they say?

1700
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 7: Right, Well, they heard us, they knew what we were

1701
01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 7: talking about, because again we were there when it was

1702
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:00,479
Speaker 7: still you could still hear what we were saying. And

1703
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:03,000
Speaker 7: we had this huge red banner that said free Assange,

1704
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:04,760
Speaker 7: So they heard us. They tried to ignore us and

1705
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:08,400
Speaker 7: walk past. Lester Holt, NBC News anchor, at least looked

1706
01:28:08,400 --> 01:28:09,720
Speaker 7: over and acknowledged us.

1707
01:28:10,800 --> 01:28:13,360
Speaker 10: We even saw We even saw Kelly and Conway.

1708
01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:16,040
Speaker 7: We just it was kind of funny, but you know,

1709
01:28:16,240 --> 01:28:18,759
Speaker 7: we got a few thumbs up, but not many.

1710
01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:21,680
Speaker 10: But we knew they they knew what we were we

1711
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:22,400
Speaker 10: were talking about.

1712
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,120
Speaker 6: It's interesting because of that that letter that they all sent.

1713
01:28:25,200 --> 01:28:27,040
Speaker 6: What was it at last at the end of last year,

1714
01:28:27,120 --> 01:28:30,000
Speaker 6: is in November, the New York Times, Der Spiegel, the Guardian,

1715
01:28:30,120 --> 01:28:33,679
Speaker 6: Lemon they signed that joint open letter calling for dropping

1716
01:28:33,720 --> 01:28:38,639
Speaker 6: the Espionageac's charges against Assange. But there's still just this

1717
01:28:38,920 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 6: disinterest in the case overall.

1718
01:28:41,479 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 3: That characterizes their approach absolutely.

1719
01:28:44,240 --> 01:28:45,639
Speaker 7: And one other thing to keep in mind is we're

1720
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:48,040
Speaker 7: also trying to pressure Congress to step up more. There

1721
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:50,320
Speaker 7: was this letter, which you may have discussed on your show,

1722
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:54,679
Speaker 7: that only seven members of Congress, the so called squad, signed,

1723
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 7: and that was submitted on April eleventh, which was the

1724
01:28:56,840 --> 01:28:59,879
Speaker 7: anniversary of Assange's arrest in London, and it was accompanied

1725
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 7: by parliamentarians who also sent letters from Australia and the

1726
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 7: European Union and so forth. But we need to get

1727
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:08,600
Speaker 7: members of Congress to support him. The Progressive Caucus and

1728
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:11,000
Speaker 7: the Black Caucus should have stepped forward as a group

1729
01:29:11,040 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 7: and said, you know, this is about press freedom and

1730
01:29:13,479 --> 01:29:16,240
Speaker 7: the truth. This is what we support, and we couldn't

1731
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:19,600
Speaker 7: get you know, Promilogia, Paul Rocanna and their group to

1732
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 7: go along with that.

1733
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:22,160
Speaker 10: So that's really a travesty.

1734
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:24,200
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, indeed, yes indeed it was.

1735
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:27,120
Speaker 4: And so again, if you're in DC a Department of

1736
01:29:27,280 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 4: Justice at noon, what's the website again for people to

1737
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:32,320
Speaker 4: find the other ones around.

1738
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 10: The country, right, Assange Defense dot org.

1739
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:36,719
Speaker 4: Great, so look at wherever you are. There may be

1740
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:39,360
Speaker 4: there may be one. And thank you much so much

1741
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:43,360
Speaker 4: for joining us. And also thanks again to our supremium

1742
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 4: subscribers on what Spotify and people who subscribed on YouTube,

1743
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:49,920
Speaker 4: because you guys are paying for this an upgrade to

1744
01:29:49,960 --> 01:29:51,720
Speaker 4: our studio, which you're going to very much like.

1745
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:52,559
Speaker 3: It's really cool.

1746
01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 5: They've been working on for a pay.

1747
01:29:55,080 --> 01:29:57,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're tearing down the brick wall.

1748
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 5: Yes that's right there.

1749
01:29:58,800 --> 01:30:01,879
Speaker 3: Mister and Jetty. This wall tear down.

1750
01:30:01,800 --> 01:30:03,599
Speaker 5: You're down this wall.

1751
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:05,880
Speaker 4: Well, thank you guys for joining us, and thank you

1752
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:07,080
Speaker 4: for all for all the support.

1753
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:09,040
Speaker 11: H