1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Body dikes. But Joseph Scott more got a question for you, 2 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: what were you doing when you were thirteen years old 3 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: and you were attending middle school? For me, it was 4 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: waiting on a bus to come and pick me up 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: during school year, sports every day of some kind, even 6 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: though that I was no good at and friends that 7 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: I still rode bikes with and went to a local 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: field and played baseball with touch football. But not for 9 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: Madeline Soto. We've already covered Madeline's case now I urge 10 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: you to please check out the earlier episode, but there 11 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: have been some developments in her case and I feel 12 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: the need right now to update because this is significant. 13 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: It really gives us an insight into the life that 14 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that she lived, but that 15 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: she was subjected to. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this 16 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: is body bags, and the hits keep on coming. Dave. 17 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it's fatigue on my part, heartache fatigue, 18 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,959 Speaker 1: because it seems like every single time we sit down, 19 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: we're talking about another victimized child, and it just goes 20 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: on and on and on, and when you don't think 21 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 1: it can get any more depraved, up pops the case 22 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: of Madeline Soto, and we've you know, we've known a lot, 23 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: I think to a great degree. But I would say 24 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: that as a result of recent developments as of just 25 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: I don't know, days ago, that we have more information 26 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: relative to her short and tragic life, how it came 27 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: to an end, and what was going on leading up 28 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:38,919 Speaker 1: to that moment. I got to tell you, it's it's weird. 29 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's a weird thing for me. You know, 30 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: we've always heard of stranger danger. You know, people talk 31 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: about that a lot, and you you you take care 32 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: when you walk down the streets in the evening. You 33 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 1: don't know what's lurking around in any corner or alleyway. 34 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: But you know, the real monsters many times exist under 35 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: our own roofs. And I think that's the case with Madelin. 36 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: You know, the Cassimi Police Department released an eighty page 37 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: investigative document summary that gave us information that we just 38 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 2: didn't have before, some information that we actually, you know, 39 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: kind of had thought about, you know, thought that this 40 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: is what happened. In particular, we already know that the 41 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: medical examiner is not going to release the autopsy report. 42 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 2: We know this. 43 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: Can you yeah, I was going to say, please expand 44 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: on that and just tell me it's becaul us, tell 45 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: us why educated. 46 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: It's just because the first of all, Madeline is thirteen 47 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 2: years old at the time she died, just turned thirteen 48 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: years old. That's part one. But the real reason, because 49 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: an argument could be made that thirteen is not too 50 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: young to release it. The reason they're not releasing her 51 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 2: autopsy is because it is a direct result of domestic violence. 52 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: That's why. 53 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: So you've got the double whammy of age and domestic violence, 54 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: which goes to what you were just talking about how 55 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: stranger danger is one thing. This is domestic violence and 56 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: abuse at a level that I don't think we are 57 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: at the end yet. I think there is going to 58 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: be someone else that has to have some accountability and 59 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: be responsible for what took place, because when you, as 60 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: a parent, directly put your child in a situation for 61 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 2: them to be abused. As in, let's all sleep together 62 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 2: in the same bed, and hey, I have a headache tonight, 63 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: I need a good night sleep. You two, my thirteen 64 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 2: year old daughter, Madeline, and my boyfriend Stephen Stearns. Y'all 65 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: to sleep in the upstairs bedroom by yourself, just the 66 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 2: two of you. I'm sleeping here alone tonight, which is 67 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: exactly what happened the last night of her life. Madelon 68 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: Soto was sent to bed with her mom's boyfriend, an 69 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 2: adult thirty eight years old. 70 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: I think, you know, back to my early comment about 71 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: stranger danger again, if you're attacked Allen Street and you know, 72 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: like a robbery gone bad, or you know, whatever the 73 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,720 Speaker 1: case might be, that's generally a one off event. The 74 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: life that this child lived, and this goes to the 75 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: domestic violence part of this, David, was it was every 76 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: day that she was coming home to this. Just let 77 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: that sink in the terror of this, the violence of this. 78 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: You know they talk about domestic violence, this is ongoing 79 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: violence that's committed against her. What is it that you 80 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 1: famously say an adult cannot have sex with a child? Ye, 81 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 1: what is it? Please tell us this again, because I 82 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: think this is this is profound. It's profound. 83 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: I can't have sex with a child. You can rape 84 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 2: a child, but you cannot have sex with a child. 85 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: And I'm about tired of hearing it said like that, 86 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 2: because it is said. I said it out loud once 87 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 2: on a different story and was corrected. By a friend 88 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 2: of mine who said, Dave, since when can a child 89 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: consent to sex with an adult? Yeah, and if they can't, 90 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 2: then it's not sex. 91 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: No, it's not, it's rape. It is what it is. 92 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: That's what it comes down to. And this is the 93 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: life that she, apparently from what we understand now, had 94 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: been living. But back to this idea of not being 95 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: able to release the autopsy report because of these restrictions 96 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: relative to domestic violence and obviously her age, I think 97 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: the medical examiner has actually given us some information that 98 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 1: hopefully will satisfy uh, the publics need to know, you know, 99 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: balance with with other considerations. And they have listed, actually 100 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: listed her death. They've given us a direct diagnosis. They're 101 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: saying that this is a death as a result of 102 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: a strangulation. And I find this it's it's kind of 103 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: interesting on a couple of levels. And just give me 104 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:28,679 Speaker 1: a little rope here, and I want to explore this. 105 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 1: This was not like I think that some people thought 106 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: that maybe she had been beaten or beaten to death 107 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: or something like that, and maybe there was a bit 108 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 1: of trauma in this way, but the actual cause of 109 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: death is strangulation. Here here's another bit that is quite 110 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: fascinating about this case. Apparently Stearns had done research on 111 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 1: an agent that's called the CIVA flooring and it's CIVA 112 00:07:55,920 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 1: flooring is a that's administered for Anesthesia's generally given in 113 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: concert with nitrous oxide. It's used quite a bit. It 114 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: can be used with humans. It's used quite a bit 115 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: in veterinary medicine, you know, and from my understanding, it 116 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: can be used in context of like an outpatient event 117 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: where you're going to take that person on a limited 118 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: limited time and you're going to you know, take them 119 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: out of the state of consciousness so that you can 120 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: go forth and do surgery. He had actually researched this drug. 121 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 1: It's a very specific drug. This is not this is 122 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 1: not like he's looking for ether or something like this, 123 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 1: you know. It's it's it's kind of unknown. I don't 124 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 1: know how he came to this, but they did find 125 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 1: searches for this. So either way, he was thinking about 126 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:59,600 Speaker 1: depriving her breath, her ability to breathe on her own. 127 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: Because if you give somebody to see the fluorine, if 128 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: you give it to them in a significant dosage, you 129 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: can send them into respiratory arrest. It can compromise them 130 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: to that point where they would die. And I'm wondering, 131 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: you know, if you're if that was going to be 132 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: what his end game was, how would that be explained away? 133 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 1: And all the research that I've done, I can't find 134 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: that it would that it would escape toxicological discovery. But 135 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: it's not something you would commonly search for, you know, 136 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:43,200 Speaker 1: if you were doing a standard panel at autopsy. He 137 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: did do the search for it. I really wonder how 138 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: broad a spectrum they did because we're not going to 139 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 1: know this day, not until until trial. We're not going 140 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: to have access to our toxicology records from the autopsy, 141 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,839 Speaker 1: so i'd i'd like to know if if some type 142 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: of agent like this, it doesn't necessarily have to be 143 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,319 Speaker 1: this drug played a role in this, because what you're 144 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: trying to do is and the other piece to this 145 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,800 Speaker 1: is I thought, well, maybe he was going to try 146 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: to apply this and then take her life after she 147 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: was under you know what I'm saying as opposed to 148 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: just strangulent strangulation. I don't know. There's any number of 149 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: ways you can think about this, but that's just some 150 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: of the things that I've entertained. You know, thinking about 151 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: that and how how would it be that you would 152 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: bring about her death. It's it's fascinating. I just don't 153 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: understand how he got how he got hold of this information. 154 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: You know, what kind of other searches had he been. 155 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 2: I had never heard of it, Joe. I actually had 156 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 2: to Google it to see how to pronounce it because 157 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,719 Speaker 2: I'd never heard of it, never knew and now I thought, well, 158 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: now as somebody in my world circle, you know, and 159 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 2: now it's going to be a search on my thing. 160 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 2: So it's like, you know, market body beat. 161 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: Well, don't listen, listen, don't don't don't feel like the 162 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: lone ranger there. I didn't know how to pronounce it, really, 163 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: because it's something that's for me to say that it's exotic. 164 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: It's not something that you're going to come across every day, 165 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: you know, like ether. Uh, it's not something that that 166 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: you will uh you know that you will you will 167 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: have or chloroform, I mean chloroform is and people. I 168 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: actually got into a debate with Nancy several years ago 169 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: about because you find chloroform sometimes in decomposing bodies that 170 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 1: have been left out in the forest, and one of 171 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: the things that happens is that, Yeah, it will naturally 172 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: occur as a result of decomposition and also decomposition of vegetation, 173 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: so it'll be out there. And that might have been 174 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: having to do with Kaylee Anthony. I can't remember. It 175 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: seems like that that that's something that had come up, 176 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: But you know, you think about those agents and how 177 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:51,120 Speaker 1: how a person was twisted. Mine would try to go 178 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: about covering covering their tracks. And I find it very 179 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: interesting as well, having worked a number of and covered 180 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: a number of these cases of child rape and we'll 181 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: say it plainly child sexual abuse. If you have a 182 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: child predator like this, did you know that they work 183 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: in age groups? And I was fascinated by this. It's 184 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 1: like they have a particular age group that's bracketed from 185 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: what psychologists say that once that child kind of moves 186 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 1: on from that outer, outer parameter of age, they no 187 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: longer have any utility. They still want that childlike quality. 188 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: And I'm really wondering if potentially that could have been 189 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: a motivation here if and I still have to wonder 190 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: if there are other children. I don't know, you know, 191 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, because generally where there's one, when you 192 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: have a predator. There's a high probability that along the 193 00:12:54,880 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: way that come in contact with somebody else. What else 194 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: did we did, Jiglan here. 195 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 2: In this eighty page report, Joe, Yeah, before we dig 196 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 2: into I wanted to ask you something about the autopsy 197 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: that we were told strangulation and the doctor who performed 198 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: the autopsy actually mentioned the hyoid bone, and it's something 199 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 2: that we talk about. It seems like whenever there is 200 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: a strangulation. And I was talking to one of the 201 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,960 Speaker 2: folks that we have on the show on a regular 202 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: basis and he is not necessarily in this realm, you know, 203 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 2: and he said, what is that? And I thought, I 204 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 2: know what it is because I've done the show, I 205 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: mean with you, but not everybody knows what that hyoid 206 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 2: bone is. And I thought now would be a really 207 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 2: good time because that's all we really got out of 208 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 2: the autopsy report was strangulation and this hyoid bone in 209 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 2: her neck was impacted on the right side. 210 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well it's described and look, we went over this, 211 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,320 Speaker 1: not we yes, Because I still have yet to do 212 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: an episode. People have been begging me for it about 213 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: Epstein and I've kind of stayed away from it. But 214 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to sully. I don't want to sully 215 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: her memory with the likes of Jeffrey Epstein. 216 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: I would have lost a bet if somebody asked if 217 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 2: we'd covered it, because we've covered it so many times 218 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: on other shows. 219 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: To get there in the park, I've just I've never 220 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: touched it. I've stayed away from it. But we heard 221 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: about the highwaid a lot per per doctor Boden and 222 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: and through other people as well, and I've come in 223 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: contact with hyoids. You remove them at autopsy and if 224 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: you will, Okay, the best way I can describe it 225 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: is if you go north of your Adam's apple on 226 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: the anterior aspect of your of your throat almost two 227 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: where you're at the curve ature of your neck as 228 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: it begins to curve to underneath where the floor of 229 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: your mouth is, and you're going up to your chin. 230 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: That junction right there, that's essentially where it sits. It's 231 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: the only non articulating bony process in the human body. 232 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: It's not connected to any other bony structure. Its simple 233 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 1: purpose is to anchor the tongue in the back of 234 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: the mouth, and that's all it's there. But this is 235 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: the thing when they talk about the right side of it. 236 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: It's a very fragile bone. It looks okay, it looks 237 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: if you look at it. It's not as robust, but 238 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: it looks a lot like a wishbone that you would 239 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: see in a chicken. It is a doctor's describe it 240 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 1: as a bird like structure. And when you think about bird, 241 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: just think about a bird where its wings expanded and 242 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: the tips kind of going in adulta shape so that 243 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: they're backwards. So if it's a bird like structure, the 244 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: head of the bird, if you supermpose that on the 245 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: shape of the bone, is looking directly at you as 246 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: you're looking at it through the neck. And so the 247 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: wings extend backwards, and they're not called wings, they're called 248 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: they're called horns. And you have a greater horn and 249 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: a lesser horn on both of them. So they're these 250 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: little bony protuberances on each end. And one of the 251 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: things that you look for are little lines of fracture. 252 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: The only way, with very few exceptions, that this bone 253 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: ever gets fractured is or there's associated hemorrhage, is manual 254 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: manual strangulation. If you because it's so high up in 255 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: the neck, and if people will just imagine their hands 256 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: shaped like in a classic movie image, like you've got 257 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: a strangler that's coming towards somebody with both hands side 258 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: by side, and they're going to reach around the throat, 259 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: the anterior aspect of the throat and squeeze your hands 260 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:07,680 Speaker 1: go really high up on the throat when you do that. 261 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,120 Speaker 1: Nooses do not do that. They don't ligatures don't do that. 262 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: There are cases of judicial hangings where the hyoid has 263 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: been fractured. More than likely, generally you're going to get 264 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 1: cartilage fractures that are going to be in the laynix 265 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:36,120 Speaker 1: that's below the level of the hyoid. So I've only 266 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: had one other case, and I related very quickly. It 267 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: doesn't have anything to do with Madelin, but just so 268 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: that people understand, I've only had one other case in 269 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: my entire career outside of a manual strangulation, where I 270 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: had fractured hyoid, and that is a guy that was 271 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: in a nineteen sixty eight Pontiac Bonnivale and he went 272 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: over the side of a three story ramp off of 273 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: an outlet of I ten and of course he didn't 274 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: have seat belt on it and had you remember the 275 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: old gigantic steering wheels that these huge cars had, these 276 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: boats at and he he hit He hit the steering 277 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: wheel we believe at the twelve o'clock position, directly like 278 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: he raised his chin at the last moment and struck 279 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: that steering wheel and it fractured his highoid. That's the 280 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: only time I've ever seen it in my own practice. 281 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: Now other people have seen it. You know, I'm not 282 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: the only I'm not the only you know, cat on 283 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,879 Speaker 1: the block. You know, it's just my little worldview. I 284 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: have to phrase that for everybody, because just because I 285 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: haven't seen it doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I'd be 286 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: a fool. But the doctor in Madeline's case is talking 287 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,959 Speaker 1: about this insult or whatever is going on, you know 288 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: with the hyoid. I'm going to be very interesting to 289 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: see when the full autopsy report is released and you know, 290 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: we can examine it more clearly. But we do know 291 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: that she was strangled. 292 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 2: That's remarkable. I never knew. I actually, while you were talking, 293 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 2: I looked up Greater Horn Lesser Horn and saw the 294 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 2: diagram and actually saw pictures. That's just amazing, Joe. Some 295 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: of the things that came out on the Cassimi, Florida 296 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 2: Police Department. In particular, they showed her picture, they showed 297 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 2: her her mother, Jen Soto. Jennifer Soto is on bodycam 298 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 2: footage with Stephan Stearns the night they called police to 299 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 2: report Madeline missing. And in that report, you know, she's 300 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 2: right there with Stephan. Never occurs to her that anything's 301 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,400 Speaker 2: gone wrong at all, and she pretty much di offended 302 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 2: everything she talked about, you know, the three of them 303 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: sleeping together, and how that sometimes Stephan and Madeleine would 304 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 2: sleep together and she was right there with him until 305 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 2: police finally, you know, they arrested Stephan Stearns while the 306 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 2: search for Madeleine was ongoing. He was arrested before her 307 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: body was found. And in this interview room with Jen Stearns, Stephan, 308 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 2: with Mattie's mother, they showed pictures in videos of Stephan 309 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 2: Stearns had taken of him with Madeline and showed it 310 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 2: to her mother, and her mother said, he's a master liar. 311 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 2: Stephan is a master liar and manipulator and admitted confessed 312 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 2: that he groomed her and abused her a little odd 313 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 2: to come up with it only after seeing those pictures, 314 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 2: but that is what was said in the report. 315 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's key in that language. Language is something else, 316 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: isn't it. It can reveal a lot. You can say 317 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: she you know, for me, she could have said, yeah, 318 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: I think he's a manipulator. But that's not how she 319 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: classified it, Dave. She gave him a grade. She gave 320 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:22,399 Speaker 1: him a grade. She said master yep, master liar, master manipulator. 321 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: So that that goes to evaluation, now, doesn't it. That 322 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: means that you had time to form an opinion. So 323 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: let's just think about Okay, if you're talking about somebody 324 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: that works in a skill, is a skilled laborer, and 325 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: I've got many many of my relatives that are. You 326 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 1: start off as an apprentice, right, then you go to journeyman, 327 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: and then you become a master. So that means that 328 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:52,280 Speaker 1: that's an observable event on her part. She's had time 329 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: to grade him. And she's not saying he is a 330 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,880 Speaker 1: master boyfriend, you know, the best boyfriend in the world. No, no, no, 331 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: that's not what she's saying. She's saying that he is 332 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: a master liar and a master manipulator. And then to 333 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: use the phraseology of grooming as well, well, so you 334 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: understand what that means. You understand because that's your diagnosis. Literally, 335 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're asking her to diagnose the man 336 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: in the situation that she is part and parcel love, 337 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,400 Speaker 1: then you can assess this as he was grooming her. 338 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: How this almost makes me want to start throwing furniture 339 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: in my studio right now. This is so infuriating to me. 340 00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: And I think it's a portent, like you had mentioned, 341 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: you alluded to it. I think it's a portent of 342 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: something to calm Dave. 343 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 2: I think it was interesting that she said in the 344 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:13,879 Speaker 2: interview he did it, and the detective said, what do 345 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 2: you mean, who did what? And that's when she said 346 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 2: he was grooming and abusing Madeline. And one thing I 347 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 2: do want to point out is Jennifer Soto has not 348 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 2: been charged with anything at this point. There's no suggestion 349 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 2: that she will be charged. However, this information is very 350 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: important in the grand scheme of things as we try 351 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 2: to find out to make sense of how can we 352 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 2: warn other children in this environment. Because some things that 353 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 2: came out during the investigation Joe is that her friends, 354 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 2: jenn Madeleine's friends said she was constantly on the phone 355 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,760 Speaker 2: with Stephen Stearns. He was like constantly texting, constantly calling. 356 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 2: He just was all about like he was in fact 357 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 2: obsessed to a degree, and that inappropriate relationship that was 358 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 2: going on and not no, it was not an inappropriate relationship. 359 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 2: It can't be a relationship between an adult man and 360 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 2: a thirteen year old girl. It has to be rape. 361 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,199 Speaker 2: And that's what was going on. And the reality of 362 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 2: all of what just came out, and this report really 363 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 2: confirms what many of us had concluded without knowing. But 364 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,120 Speaker 2: there was interesting. So they came out about the body Joe, 365 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 2: where they found Madeline Soto. You know, we were told 366 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 2: that she was found in an area near where Stephen 367 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 2: Stearn's car was broken down with a flat tire and 368 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 2: he was seen with a tyron. Well now we know more. 369 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 2: Now we know how they found her body. See, it 370 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: wasn't the police just zeroed in on Okay, this is 371 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 2: where his car had a flat tire. He had an 372 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 2: eyewitness that actually gave them a lot more than that. 373 00:24:55,560 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 2: A man he saw the he saw a a press 374 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 2: conference and the car they were looking for. And this 375 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 2: man called the police said, hey, I know that car. 376 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 2: I saw that car broken down right out here. As 377 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 2: a matter of fact, I took a picture, oh yep, 378 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 2: and he showed him the picture he took of that 379 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 2: and a map. He pointed it out on a map. 380 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 2: So police were then able to go to this one 381 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: specific area near where the car had broken down, and 382 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:29,399 Speaker 2: they found a farming area, a gate and the gate 383 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 2: was locked. I had a north end and had north 384 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 2: and south ends and it was all locked. The gate 385 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,640 Speaker 2: hadn't been messed with. And so the FBI and law 386 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 2: enforcement altogether go out there and they get the owner 387 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 2: to come out and unlock the gate, and they were 388 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 2: there no time before they saw her body. This was 389 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 2: on March first. She had been missing four days at 390 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 2: that point. And if you remember, before they found her body, 391 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: it was shocking to you and I I think we 392 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,159 Speaker 2: talked about it. Very rarely do police come out and 393 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: say we're not looking for or we're looking for a 394 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,719 Speaker 2: body before they had so early an investigation. 395 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: You remember that, Oh yeah, because particularly when it comes 396 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: to kids, there's u and make no mistake, she's kids, 397 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: thirteen years old, just turned thirteen, just turned thirteen. There's 398 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 1: there's that hope, you know, that kind of dangles out 399 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: in front of you, and you're hoping that they're still alive. 400 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: But this was a very definitive I remember this distinctly. 401 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm glad you reminded me of it. But it's a 402 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: very definitive moment. You know, where they're looking for human 403 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: remains at this point in time. They did find them, 404 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: and it appears as though that she had essentially been 405 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,439 Speaker 1: pushed over the top of the fence. 406 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 2: Joe, I, for the life of me, Joe, I was 407 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 2: thinking you and I just did a show the other 408 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 2: day on decomposition, and I was thinking about this based 409 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 2: on what I have been able to learn and glean 410 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 2: from you. Wouldn't there have been the odor of decomposition 411 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 2: in that area near the fence? 412 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: Possibly, but not It would not be overwhelming. Remember we're 413 00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: still talking even though it's Kassimi. Okay, let me put 414 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: that in here. We're in Florida, it's not like you're 415 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: in Massachusetts. Okay. There's a possibility that you, even after 416 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 1: just after four days, you could have, But unfortunately I'm not. 417 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:45,920 Speaker 1: I've not come to h struck that three two. I've 418 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 1: not materialized before you with my meteorological charts from that time. 419 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: But you know, it does get cool in Kassimi in 420 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: March h this the Saint June or July, and as 421 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: we've talked about in the decompetitional episodes, heat speeds things up, 422 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:12,480 Speaker 1: So there might not have been enough time over this 423 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: four day period for there to be significant decompetitional or 424 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 1: obviously competitional changes, you know, where we're looking for those 425 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 1: signs because we're beyond micro at that time. We're talking 426 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: about macro presentations at the four day level. And I'm 427 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 1: sure that there was or were some some changes and 428 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 1: those will probably be alluded to in the autopsy report. 429 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: And it's going to be choice. And one other thing 430 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: too that I have to put up put out there. 431 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: They said that she had socks on, but as you mentioned, 432 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: this is you're talking about shoulder of a road adjacent 433 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,560 Speaker 1: to where if she's got socks on there are no shoes, 434 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: you would expect the socks to be dirty, and ain't 435 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: the case. Her socks were clean, which means, you know, 436 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: I don't think she could levitate, So there would have 437 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: been footfalls on the ground. She would have struck dirt grass, 438 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: there would have been stains on the soles of her feet, 439 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: you know, on the socks obviously on socks, and there 440 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: was nothing of that, which means that she was affected 441 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: in some way either through a rush, kicked her shoes off, 442 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: didn't put her shoes on, But she got into that car. 443 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: And here's the thing, she had her socks on. I 444 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: don't think that somebody would take time to put socks 445 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: on the deceased individual. So that brings us back around 446 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: where did the homicide take place? Did it take place 447 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 1: in their domicile? And then she was transported from the 448 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: domsile into the car. And remember the one video, the 449 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: videography that we've got where I think that she is 450 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 1: leaning over or it appears to be her, and it 451 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: looks like an odd position. As a matter in fact, 452 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 1: there are others that have commented on this and have 453 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: stated that it appears as though she may have been 454 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: deceased at that time. 455 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 2: Multiple pictures and areas that it was in the same position. 456 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so you know that's that car, I think, 457 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: and the house itself is going to be a touchstone 458 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: in this case for a variety of reasons. We already 459 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: know the electronic evidence. I refuse to go into all 460 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: of that right now, this is enough to digest at 461 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: this point. The stuff that they found on his phone 462 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: that goes back God bless her for years, for years, Dave, 463 00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: And it's an evidence rich environment. We don't know what else. 464 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:48,640 Speaker 1: We don't know if she had recorded anything, if there 465 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: were any statements from her, she had anything. You know, 466 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: we do know that she had a phone, were there 467 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: any text messages there that might have some significance to them, 468 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: or the photographs of abuse on her part where she 469 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: may be in her own little way she was trying 470 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: to document. I have no insight into that. I don't know, 471 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: but those are big questions that still have to be asked. 472 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,719 Speaker 1: But I can tell you as I do with all 473 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: of our cases, Dave. You know, we're going to continue 474 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: to watch this case, and this is going to be 475 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: I don't know that it's necessarily going to be a 476 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: landmark case, but it is a case nonetheless that has 477 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: such weight to it where it shines a light on 478 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 1: the abuse that's going on out there. Even right now 479 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: as you and I are talking to my friend. It's 480 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: going on out there. There are other madeleinsotto's out there 481 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: right now. We need to be aware of that. And 482 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,840 Speaker 1: I hope, I hope, that her case, her little life 483 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: that she led again will be a warning, will be 484 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: a warning to those that perpetrate crimes against children. H. 485 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags 486 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 2: HM.