Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where love is Love,
Speaker 1: but also where love is sometime zero. It's Thursday, May first,
Speaker 1: and on today's show, we're continuing our iHeart Women's Sports Week,
Speaker 1: spotlighting great podcasts from our slate of shows. Today's special
Speaker 1: the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast. Now, we've had Renee on
Speaker 1: the show before, and producer Alex and I also got
Speaker 1: to sit next to her for Last Balls Billy Jean
Speaker 1: King Cup Finals. Did we ask her all of our
Speaker 1: burning tennis questions?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 1: Do we also now know exactly why tennis players compare
Speaker 1: fuzz levels before choosing a ball to serve with.
Speaker 3: Also yes. To get your prep for.
Speaker 1: Today's episode, we asked Renee to send over her best
Speaker 1: elevator pitch for the show.
Speaker 3: Take a listen.
Speaker 2: Hi, everyone, my name's Renee Stubbs and I'm the host
Speaker 2: of the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast. If you love tennis,
Speaker 2: you'll love this podcast. I'm a former six time major
Speaker 2: champion and i played on tour for twenty two years,
Speaker 2: so I've got some stories, i know some people, and
Speaker 2: we have a bit of a laugh. So if you
Speaker 2: love the sport of tennis, you'll love this podcast. I'm
Speaker 2: joined by my friends On Thompson and Andrea Pekovic, and
Speaker 2: we just love the sport and we hope you love
Speaker 2: it as much as we do.
Speaker 1: Today you'll hear the episode from April twenty second, featuring
Speaker 1: Renee and producer Caitlin Thompson. Renee also gave us a
Speaker 1: little preview of that episode.
Speaker 2: We get into all things clay season in Europe, Stuttgart, Munich,
Speaker 2: and so much more. We also talk about the worry Index,
Speaker 2: which players are we worried about. Yeah, we're worried about
Speaker 2: some greats including Novak, Djokovic, Iger Schiantek and so many others.
Speaker 2: Leaning up of course to the French Open.
Speaker 1: All right, Slaicer's That episode of the Renee Stubs Tennis
Speaker 1: podcast is coming up right after this.
Speaker 2: Hi, everybody, Welcome to the Renee Stubbs Tennis Podcast. Caitlin
Speaker 2: and I are back together. We had a little of
Speaker 2: sabbatical last week. Hope you didn't mind.
Speaker 3: You were on school holiday.
Speaker 2: Where were you?
Speaker 3: It was a tennis camp with my family.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's allowed. I was just gillant.
Speaker 3: Actually that's you deserve that.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I do deserve that. From time to time.
Speaker 2: But we are back. We are back in regards to
Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks. Let's talk about the last
Speaker 2: couple of weeks. But more importantly, there was a lot
Speaker 2: of very interesting results this past week, including before we
Speaker 2: get to anything, the fact that Germany took an entire
Speaker 2: day off at a tournament for Easter.
Speaker 3: Didn't realize Germany was that Catholic.
Speaker 4: Well, apparently are for good Friday, because I was like,
Speaker 4: this is your prime time, this is Sammi Final's day.
Speaker 3: They just skip a d do they always do that?
Speaker 2: District always sky don't formber Remember Easter moves around, right, great,
Speaker 2: you don't know. Remember the whole Biden situation where they
Speaker 2: had trans Visibility Day and I was on the same
Speaker 2: day as Easter Sunday and people in the right lost
Speaker 2: their money. I lost their mind and money. Oh I'm
Speaker 2: losing my money right now looking at the stock market.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they all lost in mind because they're like,
Speaker 2: how can Biden do that? It's like, well, Eastern comes
Speaker 2: around and changes all the time, and it just so
Speaker 2: happens it was on trans visibility Day. So he honored both,
Speaker 2: which is what the president is supposed to do.
Speaker 3: Normal presidents do that.
Speaker 4: I was shocked because it was a Monday final, which
Speaker 4: meant that we did not know the results of Shue
Speaker 4: Cart until this morning on Monday.
Speaker 2: I mean, come on, like, I mean listen, I'm all
Speaker 2: for it, like celebrating Easter. And I had an amazing
Speaker 2: event last night that I went to. It was called
Speaker 2: later Sada. I had my Jewish friends here in New
Speaker 2: York invited me for this really fun event and it
Speaker 2: was great. And like everyone like, I'm all for people
Speaker 2: celebrating the way they want to celebrate.
Speaker 3: You're a pretty goal.
Speaker 2: But to take a whole day off at tennis tournament
Speaker 2: for well, one thing.
Speaker 4: I was thinking to myself when I was watching Corlos
Speaker 4: Alcaraz and Hulgaruna play in Barcelona in their.
Speaker 3: Final, which we will talk about on Sunday. On say
Speaker 3: is you know I've lived in Spain. I love Spain.
Speaker 4: They are very very progressive there, but they're also a
Speaker 4: majority Catholic country. Oh, this is interesting that they are
Speaker 4: playing on Easter. H they played on Good Friday and Germany,
Speaker 4: which is not I just think of Germany as like
Speaker 4: very secular.
Speaker 2: Apparently from our very German Cohort Pekovich apparently that area
Speaker 2: Stuttgart is quite catholic and conservative.
Speaker 4: Okay, that makes more sense, because why I don't think
Speaker 4: they were shutting down stuff in Berlin on Friday.
Speaker 2: No, But I just don't even remember that happened. I
Speaker 2: don't think I've ever heard that in a tennis event.
Speaker 2: And I played a long time, and I played over Easter.
Speaker 4: I was shocked to see no tennis on my TV
Speaker 4: from Stutgart on Friday, but I was very happy to and.
Speaker 2: I was like, did it rain? And I was like, wait,
Speaker 2: it's indoors.
Speaker 3: Right, it's indoors.
Speaker 4: I was happy to have a little extra tennis on
Speaker 4: Monday morning from Stutgart a final. Usually you just see
Speaker 4: the beginning rounds of a tournament. Shall we start with
Speaker 4: Stutgart as a result, and sugar back, let's.
Speaker 2: Get to it, let's get let's get to I want
Speaker 2: to get to some really sort of funny things that
Speaker 2: happened also in the tennis world this past week or so.
Speaker 2: But Elena Olona Osta Penco, like when she's on forget
Speaker 2: it seriously, Like she's that type of player that you
Speaker 2: just pray and hope that she has one of those days.
Speaker 2: That's just things don't really go her way, and then
Speaker 2: it can be pretty horrendous the tennis that she plays.
Speaker 2: But when she's on and she's confident and especially indoors, okay.
Speaker 2: And also this court suits her because it's a bit
Speaker 2: of a slippery clay court. It's not great for footing.
Speaker 2: Like you know, even even the great movers and arguably
Speaker 2: Eager Chiante is by far the best mover on clay,
Speaker 2: and Coco Gough, you see them, they're kind of slipping
Speaker 2: a little bit. They don't really have that same ability
Speaker 2: to slide and be controlled into the shot, and they're
Speaker 2: a little bit It's kind of like how Charleston as
Speaker 2: Charlston is also very so.
Speaker 3: Brief aus of the horror. True being that different.
Speaker 2: In particular is pretty well. I've played on them both.
Speaker 2: I did not play on Stuttgart's hard court. It was
Speaker 2: I played it when I was a hard court tournament,
Speaker 2: so clearly the footing was much better.
Speaker 4: But now that you say that, Sugarat has been the
Speaker 4: scene to some horrific, horrific injuries actually on the women's tour,
Speaker 4: I'm thinking actually of our friend a drapack of it,
Speaker 4: so I think had to pull out of a tournament.
Speaker 4: Had to put out of the tournament a couple of
Speaker 4: years ago with a high ankle spreen. I feel like
Speaker 4: it was one of the worst injuries I've ever seen.
Speaker 3: So maybe there is something to the fact that it's
Speaker 3: slippery in there and indoor clay. I don't know, indoor
Speaker 3: clear it seems.
Speaker 2: Strange to me. I think what it is is is
Speaker 2: when you do an indoor clay court like that, that
Speaker 2: they're bringing the clay in and they're laying it down
Speaker 2: over a certain amount of time and hoping it settles
Speaker 2: and then they play. Whereas when you're playing outside on
Speaker 2: a clay court that is like a Barcelona or a
Speaker 2: Munich or any of these other tournaments. Those clay courts
Speaker 2: are there all year long. They're being played on all
Speaker 2: the time, they're getting warded all the time, they're getting
Speaker 2: packed down all the time, they're getting you know, rolled,
Speaker 2: all the time. So they are perfect clay court. So
Speaker 2: when the ball when you're sliding, it's the same feel,
Speaker 2: whereas indoors they're sort of laying that down and it's
Speaker 2: kind of just like it's not really the same anyway.
Speaker 2: Having said that, Ostapenko's game lends itself really well to
Speaker 2: that because she serves big and she hits it into
Speaker 2: the corners hard, and it's not as easy. Like if
Speaker 2: Eager was ever going to play on clay court, which
Speaker 2: most of us would say, if she was going to
Speaker 2: beat Ostapenko, it would be on a clay court, right absolutely.
Speaker 2: But if there was a clay court for her to
Speaker 2: not play her on, it would be this one. It
Speaker 2: would be this SMAs and so I think that's why
Speaker 2: it wasn't that big of a shock that that Eager
Speaker 2: did lose to her on clay, even though now it's
Speaker 2: zero to six, it's starting to be a little mental,
Speaker 2: but it's also that surface that clay court did not
Speaker 2: suit Eager. It'll be interesting because they're going to play
Speaker 2: each other if they win their subsequent rounds in Madrid
Speaker 2: this week, again not ideal for Eager. It's a little
Speaker 2: altitude and Madrid, so that ball does like fly on you.
Speaker 2: The serve is important and the biggest issue for me,
Speaker 2: if we go back before Ostapenko beating Saberlenca, et cetera,
Speaker 2: the biggest issue for me when Eager plays her is
Speaker 2: the serve is so vulnerable. And I have talked about
Speaker 2: this adnauseum, and I will talk about it when it
Speaker 2: comes to players like Eger, when it comes to players
Speaker 2: like Coco, the serve is so bloody important, and Eger
Speaker 2: hits the same serve almost every time. On the second serve,
Speaker 2: it's that kickserve that goes right into Ostapenko's best shot
Speaker 2: her backhand. She's deadly on the returns. Ega has got
Speaker 2: to figure out a better way to get more first
Speaker 2: serves in the court. Her service motion is so discombobulated,
Speaker 2: there's no fluidity to it, and you know when she
Speaker 2: hits it well, she hits it really well. And you've
Speaker 2: got to serve well against Ostapenco because if you don't,
Speaker 2: she's crushing returns on you. And she can serve you
Speaker 2: off the court as well, because indoors, particularly Penko, serves well.
Speaker 4: So here's the question that we got into it a
Speaker 4: little bit over the weekend because there's so many people
Speaker 4: who've been watching the Ostapenko Schiantec matchup for years now
Speaker 4: and sort of marveling that there is such a Lapseidded
Speaker 4: had to head one thing. That's you know, you started
Speaker 4: the show by saying, you know, if Ostapenko is on
Speaker 4: watch out sure, but the truth is Elene Ostapenko is
Speaker 4: not on.
Speaker 3: All the time.
Speaker 4: Otherwise she would be winning more than one Grand Slam
Speaker 4: and winning more than you know, one tournament.
Speaker 3: A year basically, which is kind of where she's.
Speaker 4: Netting out, which is not bad. I make that career
Speaker 4: in artbeat but well, you.
Speaker 3: Know, sure, but.
Speaker 4: There does seem something particular about this matchup if some
Speaker 4: of us find it sort of comical or nuts or unexpected.
Speaker 4: But because you have coached against and with players who
Speaker 4: have maybe matchups that are certainly unfavorable and at a
Speaker 4: certain point become a little bit mental, which I have
Speaker 4: to imagine, you know. One of the face, Yeah, one
Speaker 4: of the folks that I that I talk to a
Speaker 4: lot on the internet is Anastasia from the Grounds Past podcast,
Speaker 4: and she was like, you know, maybe I'm just crazy,
Speaker 4: but it looked like Ego went out there and was
Speaker 4: sort of expecting to lose, and the fact that she
Speaker 4: got three sets was actually sort of positive.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: But there's so much fraughtness about this particul their matchup
Speaker 4: that yes, of course you and ask Deepenko want on
Speaker 4: to beat her in a so abalanca, in a pretty
Speaker 4: you know, close but decided affair today, But like, what
Speaker 4: is it about that matchup other than you know the server,
Speaker 4: you know, talk to me about how important sort of
Speaker 4: matchups are and why this is maybe something that's festered
Speaker 4: between the two of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, listen, it's it's always going to be a matchup.
Speaker 2: It's always going to be how someone plays, you know,
Speaker 2: whether it be myself in my playing days, you would
Speaker 2: walk on a certain court against a certain play and
Speaker 2: just be like, I have their number, I know exactly
Speaker 2: what they do under pressure. I know exactly what I
Speaker 2: can do under pressure against them to hurt them. And
Speaker 2: so there's that sense of comfort level when you walk
Speaker 2: on the court knowing that your best or your you
Speaker 2: know a game will always beat their a game. And
Speaker 2: that's a good feeling, right. So Ostapenko knows that she
Speaker 2: is going to take advantage of the second serves. That's
Speaker 2: for one. She knows that if Eager is not controlling
Speaker 2: the point, she's not a great defender, particular on the
Speaker 2: forehand side. And so you know, oster Penko uses her
Speaker 2: flat ball striking and aggressive play. And also Osta Penko
Speaker 2: and I have coached against her a bunch of times.
Speaker 2: She's a play that you go, hmm, what's her strengths
Speaker 2: and weaknesses and where does she go under pressure? And
Speaker 2: a lot of coaches will tell you that they don't
Speaker 2: really know, you know, because she she has a tendsity
Speaker 2: like the forehand cross call, there's no question about that.
Speaker 2: But then she can pop one down the line and
Speaker 2: you're like, Jesus, where does that come from? And it
Speaker 2: could be on the biggest point of the match. So
Speaker 2: the unpredictability of how she plays is actually such a
Speaker 2: positive thing for her.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's honestly, it's what I like about her game.
Speaker 3: And I realize she has a lot of haters and
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 2: Of sometimes you don't know. I don't even know if
Speaker 2: she thinks she knows where she's going with it.
Speaker 3: Like, I like watching her because she's a chaos She's
Speaker 3: a chaos agent. That's what I like.
Speaker 4: I recognize that it's not that you know, enjoyable probably
Speaker 4: to play against. But also I think you're right, she
Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily know. Yeah, she doesn't seem that connected to
Speaker 4: reality in always.
Speaker 2: And I want to see eager start pretty rejuicing a
Speaker 2: little bit of variety when she plays against her. I
Speaker 2: didn't see one drop shot. I didn't see one attempted
Speaker 2: real slice. There's no attempt now it is let me backtrack.
Speaker 2: It is not easy to do that against Ostapenko. She's
Speaker 2: hitting the ball so hard and flat immediately. But there
Speaker 2: were times where I felt she could have done a
Speaker 2: drop shot, hit a bit of a different shot, and
Speaker 2: she chose not to. There was a huge point in
Speaker 2: the third set to go. I think it may have
Speaker 2: been to even it up in the third set when
Speaker 2: she went down that break and she had a second
Speaker 2: serve backhand, I think it was maybe to go fifteen forty,
Speaker 2: et cetera. And she chose to go for her backhand
Speaker 2: down the line, which is a very good shot for her.
Speaker 2: But every now and again, i'd like to see her
Speaker 2: do it on shabburt, just like hit a little drop
Speaker 2: shot off that you know osta Penko's running backwards. She's
Speaker 2: not a great mover on play. She's definitely not a
Speaker 2: great mover. So you've got to get her moving, and
Speaker 2: sometimes you've got to get her moving in uncomfortable areas
Speaker 2: on the court like slice the ball, short jop shot
Speaker 2: once or twice in your life in a match, because
Speaker 2: when you become predictable that's predictable for them to be
Speaker 2: able to read what you're doing. Offer them return all
Speaker 2: the things, and Eger made some really bad, bad choices
Speaker 2: of shot and bad errors in the third set, particularly
Speaker 2: offer return. Like she'd be getting into the third set
Speaker 2: or getting into the game, it'd be fifteen thirty on
Speaker 2: Ostabanco serve or fifty you know, love thirty and she
Speaker 2: would just miss a return and it's just like what
Speaker 2: is that? And that is pressure because she knows if
Speaker 2: I don't hit a great shot, she's going to hit
Speaker 2: a winner. But sometimes you have to force your opponent,
Speaker 2: particularly in really critical moments, to hit a winner. And
Speaker 2: it was very similar to what Runa did to Akarez today.
Speaker 2: We'll get into that, but I just feel like eager panics.
Speaker 2: She doesn't play the ball behind Ostapanco enough. She doesn't
Speaker 2: play enough variety. She doesn't hit a couple of high
Speaker 2: balls like Osabnka loves the ball in her hitting zone,
Speaker 2: get it above her shoulder, particularly on the forehand. She
Speaker 2: doesn't like that shot, but she doesn't try the variety.
Speaker 4: So the next time they're projected to play and I
Speaker 4: don't like doing the like, well, you know they're probably
Speaker 4: going to beat in the quarterfinals, they'll probably you know,
Speaker 4: because I feel like tennis, one of the things we
Speaker 4: like about it all right, I like about it is
Speaker 4: it's so unpredictable, you don't know, you know, making projections
Speaker 4: into the semis and finals just feels like an exercise
Speaker 4: and stupidity.
Speaker 3: But there's a chance they could play again very soon.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: On the surface, which is also Madrid at elevation, is
Speaker 4: a fast court which even though it's clay, will probably
Speaker 4: also favor.
Speaker 2: Well, it's certainly why we do play. It won't be
Speaker 2: a massive like if it will be the advance you
Speaker 2: get places against Ostapenko on in Rome or in Paris,
Speaker 2: I think it will be a different result. But if
Speaker 2: I was coaching her and we were got to sort
Speaker 2: of getting to this before we start the pod, is
Speaker 2: that how do you change that mindset for the player?
Speaker 2: And it's kind of like a you know, a reset
Speaker 2: in their own brains. And I would say to her,
Speaker 2: look all these other times before you've done this, you've
Speaker 2: done that, you've tried this. You need to go out
Speaker 2: there without a doubt in your mind that you're winning
Speaker 2: this match. Ye, And you know, I had a situation
Speaker 2: where I was coaching Caroline Plishkova and she had lost many,
Speaker 2: many many times to Patrick Viteva country her country rooman.
Speaker 2: They played a club levels. They weren't exactly great friends.
Speaker 2: They you know, she didn't necessarily like losing. And I
Speaker 2: gave Carolina three things only to think about in that match.
Speaker 2: I wanted her to cover a certain forehand, I wanted
Speaker 2: her to cover a certain serve on a big point,
Speaker 2: and I wanted her to hit it to one spot
Speaker 2: in particular. And I literally gave her two or three things,
Speaker 2: and I said, and you're not losing this fucking match today,
Speaker 2: Like no, And even her husband said to me, what
Speaker 2: do you think? You know, he would always sort of
Speaker 2: say what do you think? And clearly I was always
Speaker 2: positive with ever whoever she played. But I was like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: she's winning today, and he looked at me, are you serious?
Speaker 2: I go, oh, yeah, she's winning today because I knew
Speaker 2: that there was two shots that that Petra particularly liked.
Speaker 2: And I think that once you know that, it's sort
Speaker 2: of like knowing what your opponent's strengths and weaknesses are.
Speaker 2: When you walk on the court. You know what they're
Speaker 2: going to do, and you think oh, oh, I've got that.
Speaker 2: And I think that that helped in the very first
Speaker 2: game when Petra, you know, hit a certain shot or
Speaker 2: two and it was almost like Carolina looked at me like, oh,
Speaker 2: I've got this. So you've got to be very, very
Speaker 2: positive to your player, tell them one or two things
Speaker 2: and tell them you're not losing this fucking match today,
Speaker 2: And that's the way you have to be. I would
Speaker 2: be with Eager, I would give her two or three things.
Speaker 2: I would definitely tell her to hit some drop shots
Speaker 2: more and make her move and hit some angles, get
Speaker 2: her off the court, and then drive the ball. But
Speaker 2: if you're going to just try and hit with her,
Speaker 2: you're not going to win.
Speaker 3: Last thing and your serve.
Speaker 2: You've got to change your serf.
Speaker 3: So yeah, last thing.
Speaker 4: I need to because some of the things you talked
Speaker 4: about and I was asking you about were like a
Speaker 4: matchup specific strategy.
Speaker 3: More broadly, you know.
Speaker 4: I think obviously this is the part of the season
Speaker 4: that Eager tends to emerge as our dominent. Obviously, Clay Quarter,
Speaker 4: she's got, you know, some competition maybe from the Elina's
Speaker 4: Fidelina's of the world.
Speaker 3: At the Cocoa Goths.
Speaker 4: You know, it was nice to see Mukhova obviously get
Speaker 4: to the French Open final last year. But by and large,
Speaker 4: like when the clay season goes outdoors to a slower surface,
Speaker 4: it's egos to lose any concern for you with egas
Speaker 4: play so far this year, this isn't typically when she
Speaker 4: does that. Well anyway, she doesn't typically have a good
Speaker 4: Australia or a good Middle East. She doesn't, you know, typically,
Speaker 4: But yeah, like, I mean, she's had hard court season,
Speaker 4: she's had periods in the Sunshine doubles.
Speaker 3: You'd want her to i think, be better looking than
Speaker 3: she has looked so far this year. Well for sure,
Speaker 3: and he look.
Speaker 2: At two or three years ago. She had a thirty
Speaker 2: seven match win streak, right, I mean from the Straine Open,
Speaker 2: the moment ash Body pulled out as number one player
Speaker 2: in the world EGA one, you know, Indian Wells, Miami,
Speaker 2: every clay court tournament, the French Open. I mean, she
Speaker 2: was on fire. So you can't say it is starting
Speaker 2: to okay. I call it plock on the brain. Right
Speaker 2: when you have a little bit of you know, where
Speaker 2: you're not confident, you start there's little things that start
Speaker 2: getting into your brain and you got to chip away
Speaker 2: at them, and so you got to chip away at
Speaker 2: this eager match up with Oscar pan Cope in some way.
Speaker 2: But a lot of it is she now has this
Speaker 2: like scared feeling of I'm not winning what I should
Speaker 2: be winning and I'm not getting the wins on Clay.
Speaker 2: What's happening to me? And so is there concern? Yeah? Absolutely,
Speaker 2: I think there's a little bit of concern. Can she
Speaker 2: get it back and write the Ship and Madrid Rome
Speaker 2: and the French for sure? But if she doesn't, yes,
Speaker 2: I do worry about her psyche going forward because her
Speaker 2: game is so predicated on confidence, and that's where I
Speaker 2: would like to see her get a little bit more variety,
Speaker 2: because when game Plan A is not on, she can
Speaker 2: start tapping into game plan B and see and it does.
Speaker 2: It confuses me because she started the year so well,
Speaker 2: like that match she played against Keys, and I talked
Speaker 2: about this with Petcirl a couple of weeks ago. I
Speaker 2: think that lost Keys just really hurt hers.
Speaker 3: A sliding door moment.
Speaker 2: Of that might have been a sliding door of twenty
Speaker 2: twenty five, the beginning of it, because if she wins
Speaker 2: that match, maybe even even if she loses in the final,
Speaker 2: I don't think that would have bothered her that much.
Speaker 2: Losing to Sableanca in the finals the straight up and
Speaker 2: just getting to the final would have been a thing
Speaker 2: for her. But having a match point and losing that,
Speaker 2: I don't know that that has sort of put a
Speaker 2: little chip or a little plark in the brain. Maybe
Speaker 2: she's lost the confidence to finish matches or I don't know, because.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's definitely one of the more mental players.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and I think, you know, unlike confident
Speaker 4: to Peca, who just looks like she's literally kind of
Speaker 4: just hitting balls and whatever happens happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a different pressure level too, let's be.
Speaker 3: On one percent.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's easy to go out and take out a
Speaker 4: take out a number one seed when you have no
Speaker 4: pressure and everyone's sort of you know, you can smile.
Speaker 4: I mean, even in the magic up against Sabilenca, Sabulenka
Speaker 4: had all the pressure then the Pega playing with house
Speaker 4: money for sure, whereas Eager. I think she has a
Speaker 4: lot of expectations, you know, and I think compounded by
Speaker 4: the fact that she's already a player who's like pretty
Speaker 4: mentally you know on or off, and I think.
Speaker 2: That, yeah, sort of believes that she's going to beat
Speaker 2: everybody on any day, whether she goes or not.
Speaker 3: She doesn't.
Speaker 2: She's like, well, it was just me, I played terrible.
Speaker 2: It's never about her opponent playing well. She's either I
Speaker 2: played great and I won. Yeah, you know, never never
Speaker 2: mind the fact that they played like crap. She played
Speaker 2: great that sight. But she is that type of player
Speaker 2: and if she loses, it's because she played terrible.
Speaker 3: It's never good string.
Speaker 2: It's always on her streets. To be honest with you,
Speaker 2: it is a lot of the time. But also there
Speaker 2: are times where you hit a shot that was just
Speaker 2: so dumb as well, like, but she doesn't look at
Speaker 2: it like that.
Speaker 4: So the delusion part of her ballroom dancing career. With
Speaker 4: this amount of delusion, do you think she's like, I
Speaker 4: am the world's greatest dancer.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: I mean, but that, you know, the ego. The ego
Speaker 2: fest out in the final today with Saberlenca, because let's
Speaker 2: face it, Arena definitely has her own like behind the
Speaker 2: ship kind of feel, and she should, by the way,
Speaker 2: because she's arguably the best player in the world. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, today I think a little bit
Speaker 2: of horse's mental as well in Stuttgart, having lost in
Speaker 2: the final so many times there that I actually think
Speaker 2: that hurt her today.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, you know, Arena Sablinka doesn't usually
Speaker 4: suffer in the self confidence department, until all of a
Speaker 4: sudden she does, and that's catastrophic. Yeah, so she still
Speaker 4: has that. I'm really impressed by her in the last
Speaker 4: couple of years. You know, we've obviously talked about the
Speaker 4: yips on the serve and getting over the semi final hurdle,
Speaker 4: which for a while in Grand Slams was like her
Speaker 4: big yeah, you know, gating mechanism where she just kind
Speaker 4: of couldn't get there even if she was superior to
Speaker 4: the person she was playing on that day. So I think, yeah, Like,
Speaker 4: I think one of the things that I've had really
Speaker 4: endearing about Arena Sebleca. She's so confident, she's so tough,
Speaker 4: and she's such a valkyrie and all this stuff, except
Speaker 4: sometimes she's not and she's scared and it's a you know,
Speaker 4: emotional But again, I think that's part of the inherent
Speaker 4: drama of watching her and being her fan that I
Speaker 4: kind of like, but it seemed like that was at
Speaker 4: play today.
Speaker 2: One thing, I am getting a little bit tied of
Speaker 2: with a Rae and listen, we all love the historyonics
Speaker 2: and the crazy and the speeches, but I'm really tired
Speaker 2: of her going after her team when she loses with sarcasm.
Speaker 2: I'm over it when she loses, that's funny. It's just
Speaker 2: like at that point, at this point, it's like, all right,
Speaker 2: stop telling your team, hey, guys, great job today. You know,
Speaker 2: it's just every time it's gotten, it's gotten stale. So
Speaker 2: we got it, Rena, we got it up that we
Speaker 2: just got to thank your team or night and just
Speaker 2: stop yeap giving them ship because it's so passive, aggressive
Speaker 2: and it's a little.
Speaker 3: Annoying, not funny.
Speaker 2: It's just not changing. And then she tries to laugh
Speaker 2: and I's like, oh no, it's not funny. You've give
Speaker 2: the guys ship.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Also, they're your PETE employees, Like are they gonna.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not gonna say yeah, they can't put a
Speaker 2: mental finger up.
Speaker 3: It's like to see them doing, like to see them.
Speaker 3: So you mentioned Runa and O crast should we get
Speaker 3: to that match?
Speaker 2: Yes, let's get to that Barcelona.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: That was you know, it was interesting because we we
Speaker 2: sort of talked about a bunch of years ago that
Speaker 2: Runa sinner our caress, We're going to be the next
Speaker 2: big three, right totally, that was what everyone talked about,
Speaker 2: Oh this is the next big three. Runa, who was
Speaker 2: in he had that amazing couple of weeks being jo.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: We didn't even write down Djokovic. We got to get
Speaker 2: to that at one stage. But let me just say,
Speaker 2: Runa reminds me so much of Al Karaz when they
Speaker 2: played earlier on I was like, oh God, these guys
Speaker 2: are going to go at it for years because they
Speaker 2: are very similar with the way they play, very unbelievably athletic,
Speaker 2: that both of them are so quick. They don't have
Speaker 2: massive serves, but they have great serves. They like to
Speaker 2: come in, they like to hit that little slidy, little
Speaker 2: touch forehand volley like there was a volley today. There
Speaker 2: was a there was a point yesterday that Runa played
Speaker 2: I think it was four all or five all in
Speaker 2: the first set, thirty all and he served and bollied
Speaker 2: and he hit an unbelievable little touch forehand volly which
Speaker 2: you know has to be perfect yence oucres because he's
Speaker 2: going to run it down. But when he hit that,
Speaker 2: I'm like, man, that was so gutsy of him to
Speaker 2: do that. And then to see him he was the
Speaker 2: more disciplined, And this is the difference because know it,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say he wasn't disciplined before, maybe because he
Speaker 2: was young, but also I think technically he struggled a little.
Speaker 2: On the forehand, he was a little bit this in way.
Speaker 2: In this way, I think he's starting to really come
Speaker 2: into his own. He's had the same guy coaching him
Speaker 2: now for years. I think he had too many voices
Speaker 2: in his head. He had this coach and that coach,
Speaker 2: and he's had that same guy.
Speaker 3: And that was his childhood coach.
Speaker 4: Then he returned to and I think that can't knew
Speaker 4: what he shows. It looks like he's getting the same
Speaker 4: consistent messaging, which for him and I kind of like
Speaker 4: this about him, like he's kind of been a punk
Speaker 4: in the past, but he sort of owns it in
Speaker 4: a way that I find.
Speaker 2: I've once said famously on this podcast, sometimes he's got
Speaker 2: a punishable face because he did act like a douchebag,
Speaker 2: like three or four years ago.
Speaker 3: And way to go Hilgaruna, for he has.
Speaker 2: Been chewed so much. He's he's you know on the court.
Speaker 2: I mean what he here's displayed today, particularly in the
Speaker 2: first day. Look, second set, there's no question in my
Speaker 2: mind that olcraz was absolutely hampered with that right quad
Speaker 2: sorry groin area, hip flexa. You could tell particularly he
Speaker 2: served that he was struggling with. And look, Auterrez is
Speaker 2: not a bullshitter. He's not gonna be like, yoh, my
Speaker 2: leg hurts because I lost the first set. He's the
Speaker 2: type of guy that would love the challenge of playing
Speaker 2: in Barcelona, winning a match with three sets yep. So
Speaker 2: he was definitely hampered, but the first set he wasn't.
Speaker 2: And that was a difference that Holgaruna was way more disciplined,
Speaker 2: particularly in the time break. I mean, oucre has tried
Speaker 2: to hit that back end drop shot like at three
Speaker 2: to two up on the midi break, and it was
Speaker 2: terrible shot, Like there were just choices and his forehand
Speaker 2: goes off.
Speaker 3: His fore hand.
Speaker 4: He missed some of those five feet fay sic shit,
Speaker 4: basic shit, And I think that's sort of, you know,
Speaker 4: one of the things that's so endearing I think.
Speaker 3: About, Oh God, I loves which everyone loves it. I mean,
Speaker 3: he moves feathery light like Fetterer.
Speaker 4: He's got the battle intensity of Nadal, He's got the
Speaker 4: flexibility of you know, Djokovic, Like he.
Speaker 3: Really does have all the tools.
Speaker 4: But the one thing he's missing, and this he could
Speaker 4: really learn from Djokovic, is the mental fortitude and the
Speaker 4: ability to stay disciplined and stay in because he certainly
Speaker 4: does not have that, and it doesn't show a match
Speaker 4: because he's so good.
Speaker 3: Well, look, he's so fun.
Speaker 4: But in a match like this where it actually comes
Speaker 4: down to a tie break and a few points and
Speaker 4: a few choices, he's taking mental vacations. He's like doing
Speaker 4: dumb shit, which I kind of again sort of like
Speaker 4: about it about him because it makes when he's able
Speaker 4: to keep it together almost a much better. But you
Speaker 4: kind of forget, like, oh, this is actually his big hurdle.
Speaker 4: It's not physical, it's not you know, creative, it's actually
Speaker 4: he's just you know, a space is too creative.
Speaker 2: He's got too many shots and that's just making them,
Speaker 2: knows it. Sometimes did better than him in the final yesterday.
Speaker 2: He was more disciplined, fresh line, and you know he
Speaker 2: was rewarded for it, and for me, I'm super happy
Speaker 2: about it because I absolutely you know how I feel
Speaker 2: about Carlos. I love this guy so much. He is
Speaker 2: so good for the game. He's the very nicest kid
Speaker 2: you could ever meet in your tire life. And when
Speaker 2: I say, I've not met a nicer young man, he
Speaker 2: is nice to every single person. Stuff I did got.
Speaker 4: Fun gossip, Oh, good, give me some. Apparently the ladies
Speaker 4: really love Carlos. Yeah, and he's gotten himself into some
Speaker 4: hot water among some prominent Spanish business honors because of
Speaker 4: his prowess. Prowess unless then makes me love him memore
Speaker 4: because he's twenty years of age and.
Speaker 2: Let him have fun. Yeah, he's like, get the world
Speaker 2: need to be tied down at this point in his life? No,
Speaker 2: he certainly doesn't, and I'm happy about it.
Speaker 4: But it is really funny just because you're like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: he's a twenty year old, sort of cultish young talent.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I can imagine Holgaruna walking into bunk Sabadel
Speaker 4: Stadium in Barcelona spin basically the closest thing you get
Speaker 4: to a home turf.
Speaker 3: Yeah, for Carlos Alkaraz.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting because Nadal. They showed Nadal winning that
Speaker 2: tournament twelve times, and I was like, fucking hell. First
Speaker 2: of all, what And then I thought the difference with
Speaker 2: Carlos and Rafa, because you know, everyone wants to compare
Speaker 2: these two Spanish greats. You know, Carlos is are great.
Speaker 2: I mean, what he's achieved in his career is phenomenal. Yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: but like Rafa would never pick the shots that Raff
Speaker 2: that Carlos does. You know, even he had an opportunity
Speaker 2: to actually break back.
Speaker 4: In the.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's in the tie break, and he came running
Speaker 2: in and he just hit. He chose a shot that
Speaker 2: you know, I hate coming in on the forehand cross court.
Speaker 2: He hid an inside in fourhand in a huge point
Speaker 2: and ran in and got passed, and everyone's like, what
Speaker 2: a shot.
Speaker 3: From Actually I'm like, actually that decision.
Speaker 2: Easiest shot to hit in tennis as a running foehand
Speaker 2: cross court. So he like, those are mental decisions that
Speaker 2: someone like Ruffa wouldn't do, which is why Ruffa could
Speaker 2: win the French Open fourteen times because his discipline was
Speaker 2: through the roof. But anyway, I'm happy about Runa winning
Speaker 2: because it adds that little extra spice of you. How
Speaker 2: about the French Open, because Carlos is by father favorite,
Speaker 2: so why can't Runa, Why can't Severev? We know Sverev
Speaker 2: will have a hard time because he chokes when it
Speaker 2: comes to the finals.
Speaker 3: But he didn't choke yesterday.
Speaker 2: But yes he did not choke essay. But again he's
Speaker 2: won that tournament now three times in a row. You
Speaker 2: feel comfortable and unique? Is this little for him to
Speaker 2: lose to Ben Shelton on clay? That should never happen? Correct, Okay,
Speaker 2: I don't care what you think about no bendness game.
Speaker 2: You should not lose that match, and he showed why
Speaker 2: he's the better player on clay. But I think I
Speaker 2: think Severev and Runa uh saying to everyone just hold
Speaker 2: the phone a little bit. Carlos is not the overwhelming
Speaker 2: favorite at the French So if you want to put
Speaker 2: a little money on those two players, you should because
Speaker 2: they're probably well outside the favorite betting. And I think
Speaker 2: that there's an opportunity there for someone to come in
Speaker 2: and say, Okay, maybe it's my turn this year.
Speaker 4: Just like we talked about Eger and like you know,
Speaker 4: let's get the worried index.
Speaker 3: I am the.
Speaker 4: Only person I think who cares about Stephano's teeth buss.
Speaker 4: But I am worried about him because he put out
Speaker 4: with the back injury. And I love him, and he's
Speaker 4: been in years past a pretty solid performer on clay.
Speaker 3: He's one Monte Carlo, He's gotten to the French Open finals.
Speaker 4: I want him to get better because I like watching
Speaker 4: his beautiful one head of backhand and all of his shenanigans.
Speaker 4: But a player that I think you're gonna actually feel
Speaker 4: a little bit more excited.
Speaker 3: About talking about for the worry in deck is Novak Djokovic.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2: You know, we cannot overemphasize this is the greatest player
Speaker 2: of all time. He's won more than anyone else. But
Speaker 2: he is not getting younger. And at some point, when
Speaker 2: you start getting this scar tissue, which is what I'm saying,
Speaker 2: that plark on your brain, you have lost the confidence
Speaker 2: to win matches. Even I don't care how great you
Speaker 2: are as a player. When you're not winning matches, it
Speaker 2: is not easy anymore, and everybody starts to think you're
Speaker 2: vulnerable making you're making errors that you didn't make before
Speaker 2: that you are not the discipline player that you used
Speaker 2: to be, and at some point you do. You're getting
Speaker 2: older and your legs aren't quite there, you're missing a
Speaker 2: shot because you're pulling the trigger too early, or you
Speaker 2: just don't have the discipline. And I just feel like
Speaker 2: he has won one tournament, one tournament and a year
Speaker 2: and what four months? Yeah, five months going into five months.
Speaker 2: One tournament that was the Olympics, and you get it
Speaker 2: over best of three sets, which I can say that
Speaker 2: I think that was the best tennis I've ever seen
Speaker 2: him play. Yes, but if it was best of five,
Speaker 2: would he have won that Olympics? I don't know. I
Speaker 2: don't think so. I mean because I actually mentioned that
Speaker 2: to Carlos when I saw him two weeks later. I said, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, bad luck, maybe in five sets you win.
Speaker 2: He goes, yeah, I feel like two, you know, And
Speaker 2: I was like yeah, because he feels like you can
Speaker 2: grind those matches out against someone like Novak and best
Speaker 2: of five.
Speaker 4: But which is ironic because what I think has helped
Speaker 4: Novak Djokovic so much in his career is the quantity
Speaker 4: of five set matches and we've seen him be vulnerable
Speaker 4: in three set matches and the irony now that that's
Speaker 4: hopefully playing into his favor. Although let's see, I mean
Speaker 4: he's been winning neither five set tournaments nor three set tournaments.
Speaker 4: He's tournaments outside of the Olympics, which again is a
Speaker 4: staggering cool achievement, which obviously he was very focused on
Speaker 4: and I know a lot of his fans were like
Speaker 4: happy because that completes.
Speaker 3: The trophy case.
Speaker 4: But it is a little bit of a question mark
Speaker 4: because usually I think at this time of the year,
Speaker 4: we're used to, even in years where he doesn't start well,
Speaker 4: seeing him be viable contender.
Speaker 2: And I think we felt that last year too. Remember
Speaker 2: what's happening last year and we were like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: he'll turn up at the French you'll do what he
Speaker 2: didn't and then of course he you know, the Olympics
Speaker 2: was I think it was just meant to be. I
Speaker 2: just do. I think there was a calmer thing there
Speaker 2: and it was meant to be, and that Raffle wasn't
Speaker 2: there at the French You know, he was there at
Speaker 2: the Olympics, but he wasn't the player that we know
Speaker 2: he is, and it just there was something serendipitous about
Speaker 2: it was his time, right, But everything else since then,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know, and I'm I'm going
Speaker 2: to go on the record, and I think I think
Speaker 2: he might. I think we might. We've seen the best
Speaker 2: of Nova choko it. I think he might surprise us
Speaker 2: with one random tournament win before he retires. But I
Speaker 2: think that we might not see him next year, Okay,
Speaker 2: because I don't care who you are. When you're that great,
Speaker 2: losing sucks, yeah, And I don't care how much discipline
Speaker 2: you have to want to be better. Losing sucks. And
Speaker 2: when you're used to winning everything, losing sucks, and so
Speaker 2: you start to it starts to really affect you and
Speaker 2: your personal life and you and yourself everything. And it's like,
Speaker 2: why do I want to keep dragging myself away from
Speaker 2: my kids who are getting older? And I told you
Speaker 2: this that the US Open two years ago, it was
Speaker 2: the first time I interviewed him before he went on
Speaker 2: the court, and I thought, huh, he doesn't sound overly
Speaker 2: pumped about going out now this match. It was the
Speaker 2: first time where I was shipping the Yeah, it was like,
Speaker 2: you know, how do you get up? I think I
Speaker 2: asked him along the lines of something like, how do
Speaker 2: you get up for these you know, what is it
Speaker 2: about Arthur ash at night or getting up for these
Speaker 2: matches and putting yourself through this kind of thing, And
Speaker 2: he was like, yeah, sometimes I wonder myself and I
Speaker 2: it was something along that side. I wasn't that verbata,
Speaker 2: but I remember in my brain going, huh, that's the
Speaker 2: first time I've ever heard him be a little bit
Speaker 2: sort of like negative and over going on the court.
Speaker 2: It was weird, and since then he has not done well.
Speaker 2: So I'm just I just think that at some point
Speaker 2: it's hard to keep digging yourself out and keep pretending
Speaker 2: that you're still this great when when you're not having
Speaker 2: the results and you know, having Andy maybe was trying to,
Speaker 2: I don't know, get a little spark going, or get
Speaker 2: a little of Andy's sort of ideas to make him better.
Speaker 2: But I just think at some point we all get old.
Speaker 4: Well, as you were talking about Novak Djokovic and losing,
Speaker 4: sucking and not wanting to go out there after, you know,
Speaker 4: a time of feeling like you know, you're not who.
Speaker 3: You used to be.
Speaker 4: The interesting thing about this is I think Andy fought
Speaker 4: until the bitter end. He did he didn't, he didn't
Speaker 4: go out on top.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but also Caitlin Andy was great, but he wasn't Novak.
Speaker 2: No like and and Andy had gone through his ups
Speaker 2: and downs, and Andy loved. Andy loves tennis.
Speaker 4: He loves the I think he loves the grist, whereas
Speaker 4: I think the difference might be I think Novak loves
Speaker 4: the battle, but I think ultimately he loves prevailing over
Speaker 4: every type of obstacle, even those he makes himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, happened. I just I mean, listen, Wimbledon will tell
Speaker 2: the story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think the first player at the friend I
Speaker 4: feel like it's done necessarily an indicator, but I think
Speaker 4: Lodon is the indicator.
Speaker 2: Now. Interestingly enough, Sinner will be back and we'll see
Speaker 2: sin in Rome, so we'll see what Janick Sinner has
Speaker 2: been up to in is three months.
Speaker 4: This is what I'm talking about. These are the storylines
Speaker 4: we've needed and been missing.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 2: And while we're on the subject of Sinner, there was
Speaker 2: an interesting tweet that John Wartime put out and highlighted
Speaker 2: the fact that the Itia is now having the urine
Speaker 2: sample people that follow you off the court watch you
Speaker 2: in the showers and I'm like, wait a second, that's
Speaker 2: always been the facts. And people were shocked about that,
Speaker 2: like what that's that's so you know, that's diving into
Speaker 2: your privacy and moratherele. It's like, yeah, the moment you lose,
Speaker 2: you would know as a player, you would see these people.
Speaker 2: I was going to say something bad then, but I'm like,
Speaker 2: they're just people doing their jobs right now. But we
Speaker 2: would see these people with the as and gentlemen.
Speaker 3: That's just goodness, some real growth.
Speaker 2: But it's gonna get worse. Here are these people sitting
Speaker 2: there in the corner with their fucking what do you
Speaker 2: call those things? Clipboards? You see the clipboard people. You
Speaker 2: just know I'm not showering alone in how even if
Speaker 2: you win a match or lose a match, you know
Speaker 2: the clip people are there and they're gonna clip you
Speaker 2: and make your pee. And so the moment you walk
Speaker 2: off the court, they are literally behind you like they
Speaker 2: are velco on you. They're like a hemorrhoid. They just
Speaker 2: follow you into the locker room. Clearly you have women,
Speaker 2: So the women come into.
Speaker 3: The locker rooms, You're just doing your jobs.
Speaker 2: They come it, you just doing your jobs, go into
Speaker 2: the locker room, you take your clothes off. You want
Speaker 2: to shower. Now, a lot of people shower, including myself,
Speaker 2: because you know, when the water starts in the shower,
Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, they've gotta go to the
Speaker 2: toilets so bad, right, Yeah, And some people pee in
Speaker 2: the shower, okay, and those that deny it are lying. Okay,
Speaker 2: because everyone pee is in the shower, so fuck off.
Speaker 2: Those that you don't pee in the shower, you're not normal, okay.
Speaker 2: So I would go and have a shower because I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, I've got a peace so bad. But
Speaker 2: I would hang on to it. I would hang on
Speaker 2: to it, Caitlin, and then I'll would come out of
Speaker 2: that shower.
Speaker 3: This is TMIO accepted, it's not because.
Speaker 2: It's important, and I would go okay, I would tell off,
Speaker 2: I put my clothes on, I go to okay, let's
Speaker 2: go pee. And I would go pee. Right Because when
Speaker 2: you come off the court, you dehydrated. You've been out
Speaker 2: there for an hour, two hours, three hours, you're not hydrated,
Speaker 2: so it's really hard to pee immediately off the court.
Speaker 2: And some people pee during the match. I never did
Speaker 2: that because I wasn't a person that went off the
Speaker 2: fucking tennis court like everybody else does on tour now,
Speaker 2: which is so annoying. And so now they're saying, well,
Speaker 2: they're going to be looking at you. I was like
Speaker 2: they were always looking at us in the shower. So
Speaker 2: why is this all of a sudden used to everybody.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I've been trying to figure out exactly what is new
Speaker 4: about this to people, but I don't think there is
Speaker 4: anything now.
Speaker 2: Caitlyn, there was one time, right, just so people out
Speaker 2: there know how invasive it is. I was peeing in
Speaker 2: the cup, okay, and we ladies, you know, it's not
Speaker 2: that easy to get it into that cup, right, because
Speaker 2: the stream sometimes doesn't go the way you want it to. Okay,
Speaker 2: I know, we get into TMI, but this is a fact.
Speaker 2: And I've got the cup underneath me and I'm trying
Speaker 2: to find it, and literally the lady is standing three
Speaker 2: feet from me, right in front of me, okay, and
Speaker 2: she looks at me and she goes, I can't see
Speaker 2: the cup.
Speaker 3: I excuse me. That makes two of us.
Speaker 2: She goes, I can't see the cup. I can't see
Speaker 2: if the if and I go, well, lady, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: If you want to see the cup, then you wouldn't
Speaker 2: have to test me because I'd be a dude.
Speaker 3: You'd be in here, okay here.
Speaker 2: You would see my you know what, going into the cup.
Speaker 2: It's impossible to like, what do you want me to
Speaker 2: stand up and do it? Like it's so invasive. So
Speaker 2: people that say, you know, tennis is the most tested
Speaker 2: sport in the world.
Speaker 3: It's insane.
Speaker 4: I want to perhaps suggest, because I think you're right
Speaker 4: from what I can tell, it's not necessarily new. Maybe
Speaker 4: they just they definitely reissued the rules, so maybe people
Speaker 4: outside of the sport were surprised by it.
Speaker 3: Sounds like no player were surprised by yeah.
Speaker 4: But also the thing that I think was new, that
Speaker 4: that Worth Times tweet maybe was illustrating, is that the
Speaker 4: agency clarified that showering is not an entitlement, which sort
Speaker 4: of is an ominis threat, which is basically like, if
Speaker 4: you guys don't follow the rules, we're not even gonna
Speaker 4: we're gonna make it outside the rules for you to
Speaker 4: shower eat at all, which maybe is me reading into it,
Speaker 4: but I think the the emphasis on showering not being
Speaker 4: an entitlement Therefore the implication is you could lose your It's.
Speaker 2: So preposterous because you're going into the shower. You're not
Speaker 2: you have seen.
Speaker 3: Look here's the thing.
Speaker 4: I think, maybe not to get to go down this
Speaker 4: rabbit hole too much, but I think maybe the issue
Speaker 4: here is not necessarily about showers and people peeing in
Speaker 4: the shower. I think maybe it is if you were
Speaker 4: using a cream or topical substance on your body. Maybe
Speaker 4: the rule emphasis go to wash it off is that
Speaker 4: they were going to wash off.
Speaker 3: I'm not an expert. I'm not.
Speaker 2: And you are telling you about absorption of you have just.
Speaker 4: Come up because with you know, with with the But
Speaker 4: I think maybe that's sort of again I'm reading to
Speaker 4: some of us which might.
Speaker 2: Be putting testosterone cream on them.
Speaker 3: Would they oh, okay, yeah, and.
Speaker 2: Of course this is what happens. Oh but here's the thing, Caitlin.
Speaker 2: It absorbs in like five seconds. Second. Of all, you're
Speaker 2: on a tennis court for two fucking hours playing a
Speaker 2: tennis match where you're sweating and toweling yourself off all
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so if they.
Speaker 2: Think you're coming off a tennis court to wash off
Speaker 2: your your your testatone cream your creams, you are out
Speaker 2: of your mind. So the fact that they're putting that
Speaker 2: out there is just to make everybody think, oh, we're
Speaker 2: so stringent. You guys have been stringent on the fucking
Speaker 2: players forever, So it's just nonsense that they put that
Speaker 2: out Anyway, different subjects.
Speaker 4: I think the one conclusion we can clearly draw is that, I.
Speaker 2: Mean, did people not watch Icarus?
Speaker 3: People should watch Icarus. What a great film Icress.
Speaker 2: Is, and they were passing the p under the door.
Speaker 4: Yes, that's for anybody who doesn't know. Is about a
Speaker 4: man who sets out to because he is a recreational cyclist,
Speaker 4: take advantage of the fact that he's a recreational cyclist
Speaker 4: and begin a doping program and again begins as a recreational.
Speaker 2: Innocence like you taking meldonia.
Speaker 4: Exactly like me taking meldonium, which is like, well, it's
Speaker 4: technically not illegal.
Speaker 3: I'm a recreational level player.
Speaker 4: Maybe this will help, Will it help? Let me find
Speaker 4: out meets the guy. The guy who's helping him turns
Speaker 4: out to be helping the entire Soviet U and I
Speaker 4: guess later Russian Soviet, the entire Russian Olympic team skirt
Speaker 4: doping protocols and he like set up the whole system
Speaker 4: and then it becomes this expos a on which results
Speaker 4: even way too much. People need to realize what they're
Speaker 4: in for, which is amazing. Anyways, a great film.
Speaker 2: It won the one thing we can.
Speaker 4: Be sure about, which is the tennis is doping protocols,
Speaker 4: agencies and approach still leaves a lot to be desired.
Speaker 2: It is, but also trust me, they're not doing anything
Speaker 2: nefarious in the bloody shower because people are staring at you.
Speaker 2: Can we talk about little Harriet.
Speaker 3: Dot and how showering sort of factors into this as well.
Speaker 4: Speaking of showering, Speaking of showering, Harriet Dart, the British
Speaker 4: player losing a match in the first take around, she
Speaker 4: was not happy with her opponent's body odor on the
Speaker 4: tennis court.
Speaker 2: Now, listen, we've all been there. I've all been there.
Speaker 2: I've had opponents that didn't smell good and it wasn't fun.
Speaker 2: But the fact that she said something.
Speaker 3: To the umpire can you make this girl? Were you orderant?
Speaker 2: Like if you're going to be that person and listen,
Speaker 2: let me just say Harriett is great. She's funny, she's
Speaker 2: a sweetheart. She lost her mind a little bit here,
Speaker 2: and she did apologize, and it wasn't a great look.
Speaker 2: The opponent her name is a skipping me, but she
Speaker 2: put out a great opponent Instagram later for a Dove commercial,
Speaker 2: which I thought was hilarious.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she would basically said, hey, Dove, sounds like I
Speaker 4: need a sponsorship.
Speaker 2: Yes, which I thought apparently probably does. But I thought
Speaker 2: that if you're going to do that, Harriet, just say
Speaker 2: it to your opponent. Just go you stink, like if
Speaker 2: you're going to do something on the court, just because
Speaker 2: then nobody hears it, right, you just say it to
Speaker 2: her and maybe you get under a skin no pun,
Speaker 2: all right, but I did. I did. It's not a
Speaker 2: good look, but I did have a laugh about it.
Speaker 2: It wasn't great, but.
Speaker 4: I think because it ended well with Harriet apologizing and
Speaker 4: the French woman making a joke about it, it is all.
Speaker 3: I guess so.
Speaker 2: And I do feel like sometimes we lose our mind
Speaker 2: on the tennis.
Speaker 3: Court because people lose their minds.
Speaker 2: We've all done some crisy shit.
Speaker 3: Should we talk about.
Speaker 4: A player who is losing her mind at the WTA
Speaker 4: right now doing them? Let's see Serenko one of the
Speaker 4: Ukrainian players who has been very very vocal about feeling
Speaker 4: like the Ukrainian players have not been supported enough.
Speaker 3: And this is not the first time she's made UH
Speaker 3: a statement about this. She's been very vocal from has
Speaker 3: been very vocal.
Speaker 4: She's one of the players and to be clear, the
Speaker 4: Ukrainian players who have refused to shake the hands of
Speaker 4: Russian and Bello Russian players.
Speaker 3: She's not alone in this. It's also Elena's Fitelina.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't blame them Marchakostiac, Yeah, but Lesio
Speaker 4: Cerenko has pulled out and withdrawn and UH had.
Speaker 3: Covers to her opponents.
Speaker 4: She's the one who sort of stands out as being
Speaker 4: the most sort of intense about this.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying she's wrong to be intense.
Speaker 4: About it, but now she issuing the WTA FO Essentially,
Speaker 4: it sounds like kind of a combination of creating a
Speaker 4: hustle work environment and not supporting the Ukrainian players enough.
Speaker 2: Against She's claiming that Steve Simon, the former CEO of
Speaker 2: the WTA, was not essentially not supportive of her and
Speaker 2: very flippant towards her. That's how she felt if you
Speaker 2: read the complaint and basically sort of going after Steve
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways and the WTA and saying
Speaker 2: you weren't supportive of us, etcetera, etcetera, and you said
Speaker 2: things that made me feel uncomfortable that all might be
Speaker 2: well and true. And I'm sure, I'm sure that she
Speaker 2: felt that way. But listen, I do know Steve. You know,
Speaker 2: think what you think about him as a CEO or
Speaker 2: some of the things that he did as a CEO,
Speaker 2: But he's a good man. He's a good man, and
Speaker 2: he I would find very unusual for him to be
Speaker 2: not caring or not empathetic towards someone like Lisa Lisia Cerenko.
Speaker 2: I just can't imagine him being just, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of like dismissive, bugger off like kind of thing. I
Speaker 2: can't imagine that at all.
Speaker 3: What do you think is behind this?
Speaker 4: I don't understand this, bringing this into the courts.
Speaker 2: I don't understand this at all. I don't understand this
Speaker 2: at all. Look, Lisia Serenko is a little bit of
Speaker 2: a drama coint. Any any player will tell you that.
Speaker 2: Any person on the tour will tell you that she
Speaker 2: sometimes pulls some like drama stuff on the court, whether
Speaker 2: it be injuries or sicknesses or whatever's going on.
Speaker 4: It's just like, oh, I think she possesses one of
Speaker 4: there's a stat oh the most defaults, defaults and withdrawals
Speaker 4: for all reason, for all things, all things.
Speaker 2: So you know, unfortunately, it's kind of like the boy
Speaker 2: that cries wolf. At some point people are going to
Speaker 2: be like, I don't believe you. Yeah, kind of thing.
Speaker 3: So where is this coming from Ukraine? Or is this
Speaker 3: about your mental state? Or is this about something else
Speaker 3: or this?
Speaker 2: And again, what the Ukrainian players going through. I cannot
Speaker 2: even fathom what they're going through. What Switzerlina has been
Speaker 2: able to do over the last couple of years in
Speaker 2: highlighting Ukraine talking about all the time, but going out
Speaker 2: there and winning for her country like that, to me
Speaker 2: is incredible, and she talks about it openly all the time. Now,
Speaker 2: why isn't she saying or standing up and saying I
Speaker 2: feel the same way. It feels a little bit unusual
Speaker 2: and a little bit it doesn't feel like you would
Speaker 2: think that all the Ukrainian players would be more supportive
Speaker 2: of this situation.
Speaker 4: It is odd that and sort of maybe indicative of
Speaker 4: what's motivating us to your point that the most dramatic,
Speaker 4: the most sort of uh possessing of other stuff that's
Speaker 4: going on. Player, I mean, to me, it's hard not
Speaker 4: to draw some comparisons between this and the PTPA, which
Speaker 4: is like, hey, have you know in the case.
Speaker 3: Of the PTPA last so it's like, hey, have the.
Speaker 4: Players gotten short tripted by the tournament with regards to
Speaker 4: prize money and like the scheduling and s something this, Like, yeah,
Speaker 4: there's some valid points here, like has it been extremely
Speaker 4: hard for the Ukrainian players to you know, play even
Speaker 4: after the governing body is not just you the WTA,
Speaker 4: but also you know, the Slam countries and the international
Speaker 4: competitions like the BJK Cup and Davis Cup have stripped
Speaker 4: the Russian and Bell Russian players of being able to
Speaker 4: play under their own flag, like you know, nobody's playing
Speaker 4: the Russian or Bell Russian anthems. Like but I agree,
Speaker 4: like there's you know, it's shitty, but it's kind of like, hey,
Speaker 4: is this the format?
Speaker 3: What there is a lawsuit doing? What is the point
Speaker 3: of this?
Speaker 2: And you can't She singled out a couple of particular tennis.
Speaker 3: Players, Steve Simon is named in this suit. Some of
Speaker 3: the Russian players specifically are named in.
Speaker 4: This suit, and it's just kind of like it's the
Speaker 4: same thing to me with the PTBA, which is like, hey,
Speaker 4: you guys, there might be some validity here, but like,
Speaker 4: why didn't you go and get some other support from
Speaker 4: other people? So this feels like it's more of a
Speaker 4: player movement. Similarly, if it was all the Ukrainian players,
Speaker 4: men and women, you'd kind of be like, oh, this
Speaker 4: seems like it's a systematic issue as opposed to an
Speaker 4: individual grievance. Yeah, and I think that's kind of what
Speaker 4: both goes down to it to me, Yeah, and I
Speaker 4: mean it feels a little bit more individual grievance than
Speaker 4: it does maybe systematic problem that should be disolved through
Speaker 4: the court a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean what I'm going to enjoy seeing is
Speaker 2: Sitzelina playing against Daria Kasakina and getting to shake her
Speaker 2: hand now because she represents Australia and that is indicative
Speaker 2: of Derek Kasakino, who clearly has spoken up against you know,
Speaker 2: the laws in Russia and Putin and feels a little
Speaker 2: bit but you know, some of these Russian players probably
Speaker 2: do feel very anti war and you but also at
Speaker 2: the same time, it's an independent contracting sport. They've made
Speaker 2: stipulations that clearly you can't come in with a Russian
Speaker 2: flag and all that sort of stuff. But these are
Speaker 2: individuals and yeah, you can have a word to them,
Speaker 2: and look, I just think I just think it's it's
Speaker 2: a shame. I feel sorry for her because clearly she's
Speaker 2: going through something and this is to spend the money
Speaker 2: she's going to have to spend to fight a lawsuit.
Speaker 2: It's crazy. I don't think she's going to even remotely
Speaker 2: come close to winning. But you know, I feel sorry
Speaker 2: for Poorsha. Then you w t a c because she's
Speaker 2: coming the serious shit between Rebaccna and now this situation.
Speaker 2: It's just like, oh my god.
Speaker 3: Well let's let's end the segment.
Speaker 4: While we're talking about Ukrainian players to give a big
Speaker 4: shout out to Ilinas Videlina, who won the title in Ruin. Yeah,
Speaker 4: against a very exciting young player in Oga Danielovich, who
Speaker 4: I think like she's always been a hard hitter and
Speaker 4: she's somebody who I think is like kind of exciting
Speaker 4: to watch because she's kind of a dynamic player. But
Speaker 4: she's getting better, she's getting closer, she's maturing. But alnas Fidilina,
Speaker 4: you know, at mid thirties, is still winning titles and
Speaker 4: getting to give victory speeches and shout out her.
Speaker 3: Beloved husband, who we all love.
Speaker 4: Guy.
Speaker 3: I'm on FISTAA final, Like, that's awesome. That's a great outcome.
Speaker 2: No, she's so awesome.
Speaker 3: And it's just like another.
Speaker 4: Fun indicator of like tennis is being played all over
Speaker 4: the world and all sorts of interesting people places with
Speaker 4: great and interesting outcomes simultaneously. You know, Like yesterday I
Speaker 4: was trying to watch the finals and they were all
Speaker 4: on the same time, and I was like, Ah, which
Speaker 4: one of these?
Speaker 3: Ah, what are we.
Speaker 2: Doing on forty two TVs? You need to be that person.
Speaker 3: Going into a kind of a good problem.
Speaker 2: Now we've got a good bar across the street from
Speaker 2: me now called thirty love It. We should go check
Speaker 2: it out. Apparently they've got some booths. We'll check that out.
Speaker 2: But anyway, we do want to give a shout out
Speaker 2: to the teams that made the BCHK Cup finals. It's
Speaker 2: going to be in Shenzhen in September after the US Open,
Speaker 2: which frankly I think is better. I think it's a
Speaker 2: better time to have it right after the US seven
Speaker 2: November instead of November, because everyone is absolutely tapped and
Speaker 2: after the US Open. I've you know how I feel
Speaker 2: about this. I'm always like, let's just get rid of
Speaker 2: tournaments after the US Open, like the US Open.
Speaker 3: Should be and Sirri and Williams agree about that one.
Speaker 2: Hundred it should be the pun ultimate event and then
Speaker 2: it should be this is the way I would do it,
Speaker 2: the WTA finals and then Billy jan Kin Cup, like
Speaker 2: do it big time, you know, and have the home
Speaker 2: and away ties more to those.
Speaker 4: They should have it at the same time at the
Speaker 4: same venue tennis festival.
Speaker 2: That certainly could be possible. That certainly could be possible.
Speaker 3: Certainly, it's like they do Ncuba's.
Speaker 4: Not for basketball necessarily because it's only team, but like
Speaker 4: tennis sort of culminates like the team and the individual
Speaker 4: competition are.
Speaker 3: Like pretty condensed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that could be an idea.
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of times it's the same player.
Speaker 2: There's too many tournaments, there's too many they've played too late,
Speaker 2: and the w you know, the wt schedule finishes super late,
Speaker 2: as it does the ATP and then you have the
Speaker 2: Davis Cup and the BJK Cup are at the end,
Speaker 2: and it's just like, oh my god, everyone's like an indigo.
Speaker 2: I need to have a holiday because I got to
Speaker 2: be back in Australia in three weeks. So it's just
Speaker 2: like you know. Anyway, So the teams that qualified were
Speaker 2: a great Britain, Japan, Kazakhstan, Spain, Ukraine, so congrats to them.
Speaker 2: It can't be cool if they wanted, actually USA Italy
Speaker 2: because they are the defending champions, and of course the
Speaker 2: host nation is China, so they are in there as well,
Speaker 2: so there's some great There's gonna be some great matchups there. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: the Old Aussie's lost to Kazakhstan in Australia because Ribakina
Speaker 2: went down there and played, so that was a big
Speaker 2: help for them. And so yeah, so some great teams
Speaker 2: are going.
Speaker 3: To be in the girl and I do really like
Speaker 3: to first BJK Cup. I've never been to a single match.
Speaker 2: I have been to Shenzen.
Speaker 3: I've been to Shenzen as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you lived in China, so good to see that. Obviously,
Speaker 2: we want to see the support there and so the
Speaker 2: money for Billy Jean King Cup is so big, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm really happy for them. And of course I'm not
Speaker 2: going to bitch about this because Billy won like two
Speaker 2: thousand dollars when she won Wimbledon singles. But they're winning
Speaker 2: millions of dollars. It's crazy how much money they're winning
Speaker 2: at Bella Jean King Cup. Like, the team is making
Speaker 2: so much money and so good. I love to we
Speaker 2: should be Yeah, you know how I feel like that,
Speaker 2: But god damn, I played twenty two years to make sure.
Speaker 3: They didn't get that backed.
Speaker 2: I didn't get that prize money. So all these players
Speaker 2: should be out there busting their asks for their country
Speaker 2: because there's huge money on the line there.
Speaker 4: But anyway, anything that we're looking forward to, I'm going
Speaker 4: to look forward to watching Madrid, which is a Master's
Speaker 4: one thousand, and I'm going to use this opportunity to
Speaker 4: once again call for the cowards who run it to
Speaker 4: bring back the blue clay.
Speaker 2: No, it's too slippery. It was terrible.
Speaker 3: It was a beauty.
Speaker 2: I know it looked good, but it's one person. I
Speaker 2: do want to see how she's going to go over
Speaker 2: the next couple of weeks. Is Coca Golf as well.
Speaker 2: She just kind of lost away a lot this year
Speaker 2: losing to Paulini.
Speaker 3: They we're going to add her to the worry index.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm adding her to the worry index a little bit,
Speaker 2: just because the serve and forehand again broke down against Pavolini.
Speaker 3: So it was fun to see Palini.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was very fund to her back. She's got
Speaker 2: some serious points of defense finals Paris and finals of wimbled,
Speaker 2: and she has a new coach in her coaching box.
Speaker 3: It was fun to say Palini. But yes, Marcos, I
Speaker 3: can't have expected to win that match.
Speaker 2: Mark Lopez, Yeah, yeah, I was a little bit surprised there.
Speaker 2: Coca got up in the first set and then lost
Speaker 2: her serve and then again at four or five in
Speaker 2: the first set, down love fifteen. No big deal, right,
Speaker 2: it's four or five, love fifteen, No big deal. Double fault,
Speaker 2: double fault yep to go love forty and then missus
Speaker 2: a easy back end white by mile and I was like,
Speaker 2: what the hell is that? So, you know, technically pressure mental.
Speaker 2: As soon as the pressure really gets on her, the
Speaker 2: double faults, and that should not be happening indoors, and
Speaker 2: it should definitely not be happening on clay because on clay,
Speaker 2: you can get away with hitting an average serve because
Speaker 2: you can run the ball down better. So those things
Speaker 2: are a little bit of a concern. And you know
Speaker 2: the service motion. She gets on the front foot too early.
Speaker 2: Oh god, I could go on forever about it, but
Speaker 2: I won't. There is a concern, Yeah, there is a concern.
Speaker 2: I would like to see her an eager playing against
Speaker 2: each other at the French at some point, maybe quarters
Speaker 2: of Semis, and see who can battle their their brain
Speaker 2: plak away the battle of the brain black. Yeah, but anyway,
Speaker 2: all right, guys, it's been a great couple of weeks.
Speaker 4: Spring is really here about the just preponderance and skill comments,
Speaker 4: it's still called here, although we had a couple of
Speaker 4: nice days.
Speaker 3: I'm really excited about center coming back. I'm excited. I
Speaker 3: am runa, as you said, ascending back up into the
Speaker 3: Alcor's injuries. Okay, yeah, Alacrez is nursing. I'm going to
Speaker 3: give a shot out to bask because I love him.
Speaker 3: Silly backhand and it's silly whole.
Speaker 2: She's silly backhand. He's got beautiful back He's going to
Speaker 2: be sliced. Needs to work.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2: Sabalanc is still out there being crazy.
Speaker 3: Oh one last call out.
Speaker 4: Nike just fatably gets a lot of ship on this
Speaker 4: podcast because they've basically ignored tennis for what, like Kim
Speaker 4: Kardashian like get out here. But the Lilac Springtime Easter
Speaker 4: basket color that Sabilanca and Carlos Acaraz played in over
Speaker 4: the weekend.
Speaker 3: It looks so good on that red clay. Do you
Speaker 3: love it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that looks great. I will say, I really like
Speaker 2: new Balances looks on Coco.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's They don't kill us, they don't mess with
Speaker 4: they don't miss And also I think on the men's side,
Speaker 4: Tommy Paul, they don't mess with him either. Yeah.
Speaker 2: They well, I mean both of them are beautiful attraction,
Speaker 2: which the great parties and the whole thing.
Speaker 3: But the god they're just succeed with their kits.
Speaker 4: They both almost always look phenomenal and even if they
Speaker 4: don't look their best, they look great. You know which
Speaker 4: I think we should all be so lucky is to
Speaker 4: walk out on to the court with a great kid
Speaker 4: shout look good, play.
Speaker 2: Good, because you know, if you don't look good, you
Speaker 2: can still play well. There are some players that do
Speaker 2: that really well, they will remain nameless.
Speaker 3: Thanks for joinings, Thanks for joining us, everybody.
Speaker 2: We'll see you next week. Bye.