1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: The stand up was just another extension of that of Hey, Grief, 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go on stage tonight and tell jokes for 4 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: seven minutes in the world that you trapped me, and 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: I'm still gonna go up and do it like out 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: of sheer defiance. I'm Hillary Clinton and this is You 7 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: and Me Both, where I get into some of today's 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: biggest questions with people I admire. On today's episode, we're 9 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: talking about finding a path forward after a terrible loss, 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: moving from grief to action. You know, when I think 11 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 1: about the times I've gone through grieving, losing my parents 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 1: and in particular, last year was really hard on me. 13 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: I lost one of my very close friends, my best 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: friend from literally sixth grade, and my younger brother. It 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: happened in the space of, you know, less than six months. 16 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 1: It was painful missing them and wishing I could talk 17 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: to them practically every day, and I often find myself 18 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: trying to figure out how do other people confront feelings 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: of sadness and anger, disbelief, outrage, How do we all 20 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: summon the strength to keep going. So I'm talking to 21 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: two people who have really endured very tough losses. Later, 22 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: I'll be talking with Sabrina Fulton. She's the mother of 23 00:01:32,440 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin, who was shot and killed on his way 24 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: home from a store in twelve. You know, Sabrina has 25 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: become a powerful advocate for parents and communities harmed by violence. 26 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: She's someone that I've been inspired by over the years. 27 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: But first, I will be talking with actor and comedian 28 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 1: Patent Oswald. Now you may have seen him on t 29 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 1: V on one of his stand up Netflix specials, or 30 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: on The King of Queens, one of the great titles 31 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: for a TV program, Or if you're a grandmother like me, 32 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: you might have heard him as the voice of the 33 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: rat Remy in the movie Rata Tui. He's known for 34 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: being funny, but he's also been outspoken about the grief 35 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: he's experienced in Patton's wife, Michelle, died suddenly in her sleep. 36 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: She was forty six years old. Her death was attributed 37 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: to an undiagnosed heart condition and complications from medications she 38 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: was taking. Her sudden death left Patent and their daughter, Alice, 39 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: who was then eight years old, totally overcome by loss 40 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: and grief. Now, he since has returned to comedy even 41 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 1: remarried and is raising an incredible kid that I got 42 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: to say hello to before we started, and that was 43 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: great talking with Alice. But he did something else. He 44 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: took the project that Michelle had dedicated decades of her 45 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: life too and brought it to fruition. Because you see, 46 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: Michelle was writing the book on the Golden State Killer 47 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: based on months and months of research. Patton worked with 48 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: two collaborators to finish this book called I'll Be Gone 49 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: in the Dark. It went on to become a New 50 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: York Times bestseller, and then he helped produce the HBO 51 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: documentary series by the same title. So I wanted to 52 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: talk to Patton about how he got over and through 53 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 1: one of the most terrible losses you can experience, and 54 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: where he is now. Well, I have to say, Patton, 55 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: I am thrilled to meet you through this podcast and 56 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: have a chance to talk with you. And I think 57 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: I should start by congratulating you because in May, in 58 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: the middle of COVID, you released a new stand up 59 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: special on Netflix called I Love Everything, and it got 60 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: absolute ray reviews add me to the list, um, and 61 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: so I'm just so excited to have this chance to 62 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 1: talk to you. About really the ups and the downs 63 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: of life and different ways we move from grief to action. Yes, 64 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: and you've been very public about your grief. When your 65 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: wife Michelle passed away back in it was very sudden, 66 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: left you alone a single father, and I have so 67 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: appreciated how honest, raw vulnerable you've been talking about that experience. Yeah. Well, 68 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: I mean I think that keyed off of me when 69 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: it first happened, when Michelle first passed, and I was 70 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: so shell shocked and kind of shredded, you know, really 71 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: I was. I was all nerve and viscera. That's how 72 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: I felt. I turned to people in the past that 73 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: had also been very, very upfront about chronicling their grief, 74 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: especially as a book called A Grief Observed by C. S. Lewis, 75 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: where his his wife had just died, probably one of 76 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 1: the best writers of the twentieth century. And this wasn't 77 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: a book that was written months or years, and like 78 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,839 Speaker 1: he was writing it immediately as he was feeling it. 79 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: And it is one of the greatest depictions of grief 80 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: I've ever seen, and I it's the slimmest book he's 81 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: ever written. And it took me so long to read it. 82 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: Because you just need to take a break from it. 83 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: It's one of the heaviest things I've ever read, but 84 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: I came away from it feeling so much. You know 85 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: that feel you get after you've had a really, really 86 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: deep cry, and then afterwards you're like, oh, I actually 87 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 1: sort of have some strength right now. I can maybe 88 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,599 Speaker 1: like I needed to wrench that stuff out of me. 89 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: And so once the book ended, it was almost like, 90 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: I need to talk about this in a way to 91 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: like I need to recreate that cry constantly, because one 92 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: of the scariest moments in grief is you think that 93 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 1: you'll have a specific reaction to stimulize. So thinking about 94 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: her being gone, and there will be moments when I 95 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't cry, But then later on I'm driving along and 96 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: I would see a cloud and I would explode into tears. 97 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: And what I realized was my body was defending me, going, oh, 98 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: wait a minute, we can't deal with the immediate stimuli, 99 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: it'll be too much. Let's let this come out against 100 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: a random thing so that it's not so he can 101 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: actually kind of deal with it. And I remember talking 102 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 1: to a lot of people who had, you know, survived 103 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: widowers or people that had survived grief friends of mine 104 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: that had also gone to the same thing, like, Yeah, 105 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna go through that for a while where you 106 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: will start the stuff you think is gonna make you cry, 107 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 1: you will have no reaction to, and you'll judge yourself 108 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: very harshly, and then later on a day, later, a 109 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: week later, you'll explode over nothing. And it was that 110 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: was really scary, you know, And the losses that I've experienced, 111 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: I know what you're talking about. I mean, you know 112 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: when after my father died, or my mother died, or 113 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: my best friend died, something will trigger a memory that 114 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: is not even conscious, it's so deeply buried, and all 115 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: of a sudden, my eyes are welling up and I 116 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: have to if I'm in public, you know, I have 117 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: to sort of sniff a lot. Which, Yeah, it's so 118 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: interesting because you were back on the stage doing comedy 119 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: within six months. And was that a way for you 120 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: to process what you were going through? And I mean, 121 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,559 Speaker 1: how was it part of your healing process? I wish 122 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: I could say something as noble and intelligent as oh, 123 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: and I decided to attack it was when the first 124 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: time I went on stage was in August, and I 125 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: basically it has had nothing to do with healing or 126 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: regaining myself. It was I don't know what else to do. 127 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: And it also was because for a couple of months 128 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: after she passed, I was like, I don't know if 129 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: I'm alive, Like maybe I'm the one who died. And 130 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: I genuinely wasn't sure whether I was alive or not. 131 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: There were those days where I would walk around and go, wait, 132 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: is this did Michelle die? Maybe I'm the one who 133 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: And I had some really scary, like mental health moments 134 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: when I didn't know if I so it was like, Okay, 135 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: I need to bring and I and I remember I 136 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: flashed back to when I told Alice, the principal in 137 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: her school, said she whatever she tells you she needs, 138 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: you have to you have to let her lead for 139 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 1: a while. And one of the first things she said 140 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: was because I told her on a Friday, and she goes, 141 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 1: I want to go to school on Monday, like it 142 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: was the first because I want something that feels like normalcy. 143 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: And then I realized, oh, I'm doing the same thing 144 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: that my daughter did. On a weeknight, I would go 145 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: out and do sets because that's what normal life looked like, 146 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: So that's what I started doing, right, So it wasn't 147 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: a distraction so much. No, it was a way through, 148 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: how can I make the world feel like the living 149 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: world when I wasn't questioning whether I was a either 150 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: or not, And I had to start actively switching the 151 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,719 Speaker 1: world back to the way that it was doing stand up. 152 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: I remember there were a couple of mornings when I 153 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 1: just couldn't wake up and Alice just didn't go to 154 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 1: school because I wouldn't wake up till noon, and I'd go, 155 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, or I would I would forget to 156 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: like suddenly, oh, you have no clean clothes because I 157 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: haven't done any laundry, because I don't know what I'm 158 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,560 Speaker 1: you know. So then I had to start really actively going, 159 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: I'm getting up every morning. I'm gonna make her breakfast. 160 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: She's gonna be right, Like I did that in defiance 161 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: of this grief world I was stuck in. So I 162 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: did that for a few months, and then the stand 163 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,599 Speaker 1: up was just another extension of that of Hey, grief, 164 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go on stage tonight and tell jokes for 165 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: seven minutes in the world that you trapped me, and 166 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: I'm still gonna go up and do it like out 167 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: of sheer defiance. I love that word defiance, because you 168 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:52,719 Speaker 1: were you were defying the tragic reality that you were 169 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: now inhabiting, and you were determined that you were going 170 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: to do everything you could at least to reshape it, 171 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: both for you and Alice. You also did something else 172 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: that really mattered, because you know, your late wife was 173 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: an extraordinary investigator and researcher, and what she did was 174 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: to try to, through her writing, her online interactions, you know, 175 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: to try to build a community of people who were 176 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: going to help solve crimes, which you know, I find fascinating. 177 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: And she was in the middle when Michelle died of 178 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: a year's long research project to track down the rapist 179 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,959 Speaker 1: and murderer eventually known as the Golden State Killer. Yeah. 180 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: Well that was a thing that she had written about 181 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,520 Speaker 1: on her blog True Crime Diary, which led to Los 182 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: Angeles magazine wanting her to write an article about it, 183 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: and the article blew up online and that led to 184 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: HarperCollins saying, well, this is a book because it's such 185 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:57,959 Speaker 1: a massive, decades long unsolved case. The Golden State Killer 186 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,719 Speaker 1: started off as a burglar and ray pist in the 187 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: Sacramento area in the early seventies mid seventies, he went 188 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: under the names the Vicelia Ransacker. Then he became the 189 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: East Area Rapist or ear E A r. Then he 190 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: bumped up to murder. Then he vanished, but then reappeared 191 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: down in Irvine and and Goalita and like it was 192 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: just this statewide kind of spree. It was the worst 193 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 1: uncaught killer in California history. And he had faded from 194 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: memory and it turned out he was an ex police 195 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 1: policeman who was kicked off the force partially for shoplifting, 196 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, a hammer and dog repellent, spray 197 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: and rope. So that's getting on the edge of like 198 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: dark comedy at that point where it's like how much 199 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: more obvious could this guts? But also people keep forgetting 200 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: there was an era coming up where you know, that's 201 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: what guys did, man, you used to that's of course 202 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: you buys a hammer, and some wrote that's what guys do, 203 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: so it didn't seem weird or suspicious. So she really 204 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: delves into part of what kept him going for so 205 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:08,839 Speaker 1: long was the tone and uh feeling of the era 206 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: and how it felt about women and how it felt 207 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: about rape victims and stuff like that. So you know, 208 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: it's a whole piece. It's it's it's as much a 209 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: mood piece as it is an investigative piece. It's it's 210 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: just both in its extraordinary. We're taking a quick break. 211 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: Stay with us. You decided to finish the book she 212 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 1: was working on, and you know, give us a little 213 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: bit of understanding as to how you summon the energy 214 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: and commitment to take on what is a huge undertaking. Yeah, 215 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: well that was me. You know again, the first there 216 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: was not an immediate I'm gonna see her book through. 217 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: It was just months of you know, junk food and 218 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:55,359 Speaker 1: crying and rewatching the princess bride um and just doing 219 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: like the most embarrassing stuff you wish as yeah as 220 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: you wish you exactly um. And then came down to 221 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: it wasn't even that. I just I was like, I'm 222 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: going to finish book, like I am going to beg 223 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: people who knew her who I also know, Billy Jensen 224 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: who's a journalist, Paul Haynes, who was her researcher and 225 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: data minor, and this guy Paul Holes who was a 226 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: homicide investigator, Like please please help me assemble I can't 227 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: write at her level. I can't fill in where she 228 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: left off sensitives, but we can. We can organize this 229 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: so that it has a narrative to it, and please, please, 230 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: let's get this out there. And they all stepped up 231 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: a lot of times when you're grieving. That's another part 232 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: of grieving that people that I think gets misrepresented a lot, 233 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: the stoic lone Widower, the you know, lone wolf and 234 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: Cub Samurai with his you know baby in the cart 235 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: in front of him and walking through the rain. And 236 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that. No, You're gonna have to ask 237 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: for a lot of help and be kind of clumsy 238 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: and embarrassed to do it. But I still did it 239 00:13:55,480 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 1: because I wanted that book finished, especially because one of 240 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: the things that Michelle embraced early on. Most crimes are 241 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: solved not through card chases and shootouts. It's a cop 242 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: sitting there sifting through data. I remember there was a 243 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: day she got somehow there was a digital archive of 244 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: every year book in Sacramento from the time that he 245 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: would have been young, and so a couple of witnesses 246 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: described as being athletic. So she went through every track team. 247 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: I mean it was just like it took weeks to 248 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: go through and cross reference and it led to nothing. 249 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: But it was the doing that, and and again it 250 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 1: was every couple days and every couple of weeks, it 251 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,840 Speaker 1: was just the how do I, how do I get 252 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: up tomorrow and do this again? This is going nowhere. 253 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: It's you gotta hammer it every day. It's so brutal 254 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: and and I think that's why a lot of the 255 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: cops that she talked to trusted her very early on, 256 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: because they saw, oh, no, she's doing the grunt work. 257 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: She's not trying to do the really cool how Hollywood 258 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: c s I sherlock, Oh this cigarette ash. It's like, no, 259 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: I just went through like five phone books from five 260 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: different years. You know that kind of thing, which is 261 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: how you that's how you solve crimes. But you finished 262 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: the book I'll Be Gone in the Dark. You had 263 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: the investigators and the retired police and everybody helping you. 264 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: Then you turned it into an HBO documentary. What did 265 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: it feel like, you know, not only finishing the book, 266 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: but then turning it into a documentary, getting it over 267 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: the finished line, so to speak, without Michelle being right 268 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,760 Speaker 1: there by your side. You know, again, the cliche word 269 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: would be bitter sweet, especially because the director that I 270 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: got to work with, this woman, Liz Garvis, who did 271 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: the Nina Simone documentary and the Angola Prison documentary. The 272 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: way that she was able to tell the story and 273 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: focus on the aspects of the story that Michelle would 274 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: have wanted focused on, which is the victims, which is 275 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: the survivors, and plays and these women that Michelle was 276 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: always like, I hate serial killer narratives that make the 277 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: serial killer out to be this dark anti hero. We're 278 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: in reality, these guys they're they're just worms, you know, 279 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,640 Speaker 1: They're they're just worms. So the fact that that's what 280 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: she also focused on, it would have been so good 281 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: to have Michelle there to consult and see that process 282 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: what she focused on her book also than being expanded, 283 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: and also I know that Michelle would have wanted to 284 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: have talked to the survivors. You know, if Michelle had 285 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: been alive and he had been caught the way he was, 286 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: I would be home taking care of Alice while she 287 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: was staying in a hotel in Shackman and going to 288 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,880 Speaker 1: every court day, and just nothing felt better than when 289 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: I met the women that had survived it. And they 290 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: were all like, we go to every one of his 291 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: arraignments and we look right at him and he can't 292 00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: raise his head, he can't look at us. And the 293 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 1: smiles on their faces seeing this guy just reduced to 294 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: what he was. It was just yes, yeah, well, and 295 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, the book was obviously a man us of 296 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: best seller. And then on August twenty one, just you know, 297 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 1: this year, this guy, this really terrible guy, horrible human being, 298 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: was convicted of murdering I think thirteen people and raping 299 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: over fifty in California in the seventies and eighties. And then, 300 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:24,359 Speaker 1: as I understand it from the plea hearing, he admitted 301 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: to things that he hadn't even been charged with. Well, 302 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: one of the you know, one of the scenes that 303 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: I found both powerful and hopeful in the documentary was 304 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: in the last episode when many of the rape survivors 305 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: came together. They were, in their words, a survivor family. 306 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 1: And you know, once said, even though it was decades 307 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: after the attack, she suffered that she was on the 308 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: road to becoming herself again. That must have been a 309 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: really emotional experience for you Pat too, to meet these women, 310 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: the survivor family members you know what did that mean 311 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: to you. I met them at a book event up 312 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: in Sacramento, and I kept it together when I met 313 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: them because out of it just felt it would have felt, 314 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 1: really I thought petty and disrespectful if I had come 315 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 1: apart after what they had gone through. And I just 316 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: listened to them. I just listen to them talk about 317 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: all that, you know, their lives. And but then when 318 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 1: I got I remember very specifically, when I got back 319 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,480 Speaker 1: to my hotel room, I well, I burst into tears 320 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: in the car, and then I had to get myself 321 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: together because I don't want to walk through the lobby 322 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: like bawling, looking nuts. But then I got myself together, 323 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: went back in my room, and when I closed it 324 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: or I started crying again because it's just so you 325 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 1: feel the decades of their lives just unspooling on you 326 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: like that, and and the fact that they are walking 327 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: around in the sunshine and going to see friends. There 328 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: is a gorgeous defiance in now, you know what, I'm 329 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,439 Speaker 1: gonna go live my life and yeah, and I know 330 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: what you took from me, and I'm still going to 331 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,480 Speaker 1: go live my life like you're just an insect. Because 332 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: of course, the ones who survived, and of course the 333 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: family members of those who did not from his murders. 334 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: They had to go through their own grieving process and 335 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,959 Speaker 1: they had to make decisions as you did every single day, 336 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,399 Speaker 1: as am I going to be defined by destroyed and 337 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: damaged by what this man did to me or did 338 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: to my you know, loved one? Or is there a 339 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 1: way that I can be defiant? And I really like 340 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 1: your concept there. You know, sometimes you have to be 341 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: defiant in the face of what life throws at you. 342 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,400 Speaker 1: You know. I'm also really happy to have had a 343 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: chance before we started talking to see your new wife 344 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: and your beautiful daughter, Alice. So you have rebuilt a life, Pat, 345 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's not that you've you've turned 346 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: a page that's a ridiculous, uh you know description, but 347 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: you've you've stayed in the river, so to speak, and 348 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: it continues to flow and you've got new love and 349 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: new life. Talk a little bit about that, because I 350 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,679 Speaker 1: want those who are listening who are going through grief 351 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 1: for whatever happened to them, are feeling maybe down and depressed, 352 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: maybe they're worried about the world, whatever it is. You know, 353 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: there is this potential out there isn't there. Yeah, that's 354 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: a really interesting way that you describe the river. You 355 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,880 Speaker 1: got back, you stayed in the river. The river flows 356 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: whether you go with it or not. It is going 357 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,280 Speaker 1: to flow whether you're in it or not. You know 358 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: that more than anyone. You that the kind of like 359 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: that that river is going to keep going. So I 360 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: either decide to get in and see where it goes next, 361 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: or I sit and just glare at it from the shore. 362 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: You know, you you have to go with it. And 363 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: I was, you know, it was February. It was almost 364 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,959 Speaker 1: a year after Michelle had passed away, and I was just, 365 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: you know, slowly rebuilding things and getting on stage. And 366 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: Meredith and I had a lot of friends in common, 367 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 1: but we had ever met. And one of our friends 368 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: in common is this actress named Martha Plimpton who likes 369 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: to have these big dinner parties where she invites different 370 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: people together. So she invited a bunch of people. I 371 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: was on the list, so is Meredith. And at the 372 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: last minute I couldn't go to the dinner because I 373 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: was traveling. And then the next day Meredith sent me 374 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: a message going, dude, you missed the best lasagna last night, 375 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: just like and I went a story of my life. 376 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: And then we just started talking on Facebook. We never 377 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: spoke on the phone. We would just right to each other. 378 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: And it got to the point where I was just 379 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: talking to her because I missed having someone to talk 380 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: to in the dark at the end of the day. 381 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: You just sit there and go, oh man, what is 382 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: going on? And we were talking about the election and 383 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: what was what the There was nothing romantic about it. It 384 00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: It was just like I've met this incredibly agile, multifaceted 385 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: mind like Michelle's that I can just talk to at 386 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: the end of the day. And we would go all right, 387 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: same time tomorrow, yeah, And then every night at nine 388 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 1: o'clock and like, all right, Alice is asleep, what did 389 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: you do today? Well? I had this audition and that 390 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: went on for three months, just writing, and then we 391 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: over that time we fell in love just writing to 392 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,480 Speaker 1: each other, and then we it was but it was 393 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: so like Victoria, like like like one of those epistolary romances. 394 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: It's just the letters back and forth. And then finally 395 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: on May we were like, okay we should meet I 396 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,880 Speaker 1: go where should we go? And and she just said 397 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 1: really fun. She goes let's pick like a restaurant with 398 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,199 Speaker 1: like a beach or something nearby. So in case this 399 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: doesn't go well, we can, like one of us can 400 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: go for a walk where we can. We'll give each 401 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 1: other a boat hold. We were so worried that it 402 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: wasn't gonna work. And then um we we met at 403 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 1: the restaurant at shutters and we just locked eyes and 404 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: it was like, oh my god, I just you know, 405 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: and then that and then U I propose. In November 406 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: four we were married. It was you know, I'm a 407 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: sucker for a happy but I mean, as far as 408 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: telling the people out there, you know, you have to 409 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: be very let yourself get over your grief first, but 410 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: don't write off the possibility of love if you're not 411 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: completely done with your grief, like I wasn't completely done, 412 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: And Meredith was was more open than I was about 413 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 1: because I know you still have stuff to go through 414 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 1: and if you want to wait or postpone, you know, 415 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: I'm not trying to rush you into anything. But it 416 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: was that attitude of hers made me go, oh, no, 417 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: I should be with her. This is amazing. That so great. 418 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: And also you get to a certain age, like, look, 419 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: if we've been in our twenties, absolutely gone, we should 420 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,280 Speaker 1: move in together. And I don't know. I'm still but 421 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: once you're in your late forties, you're like, I know 422 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: who I am. I know when I've met someone who's 423 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: not insane, this person is awesome. Why would I let 424 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: this person? You know? So that's that's kind of where 425 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 1: we were. So that's a pretty low bar. I've met 426 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 1: someone who's not insane. Well, living in living in Los Angeles, 427 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,160 Speaker 1: that's actually arrest like finding a unicorn that's not insane. 428 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: I guess I gotta marry her. It's amazing. She's saying, 429 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: sign her roup. Oh my gosh, oh pat Now as 430 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: while I have so enjoyed talking to you. Patton's newest 431 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 1: comedy special, I Love Everything, is out on Netflix and 432 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: the HBO documentary series I'll Be Gone in the Dark 433 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: is based on the best selling book by Michelle McNamara. 434 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: Sabrina Fulton is probably best known as Trayvon's mom. Trayvon 435 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 1: Martin was seventeen years old when he was killed while 436 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 1: walking home from a convenience story in the middle of 437 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 1: the day through a neighborhood in Sanford, Florida. Back in 438 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: Trayvon had been on his way home after buying skittles 439 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 1: and a bottle of juice. The man, a self styled vigilante, 440 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: who shot him, thought Trayvon looked suspicious. Think about it, 441 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: a young black man in a hoodie, minding his own 442 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: business coming home from a store, being targeted, profiled, and 443 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 1: killed by a neighborhood vigilante makes me just sick and 444 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: angry every time I think about it. I got to 445 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: know Sabrina starting in her grace, her strength, her character 446 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 1: was so impressive to me. Together with Trayvon's dad, Tracy Martin, 447 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: Sabrina created the Trayvon Martin Foundation, which has been trying 448 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: to work with families who have lost kids to violence, 449 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: sometimes police violence, sometimes random shootings like what happened to Trayvon, 450 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 1: and unfortunately so many others. This past spring, after working 451 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 1: for twenty five years for her county as a public servant, 452 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,479 Speaker 1: Sabrina decided to run for office, and when we spoke, 453 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: she was in the middle of her campaign for a 454 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 1: seat on the Miami Dade County Commission. I was so 455 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 1: proud of her because she had campaigned with me and 456 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: for me in and she really was a natural. It 457 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:20,679 Speaker 1: is always a privilege and delight to talk with Sabrina Fulton. Well, 458 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, I want to talk with you about something 459 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: that I think will help a lot of people, namely 460 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 1: how you keep going. You know, I have been so 461 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,560 Speaker 1: grateful to know you, to be your friend, to see 462 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: you in action over the past several years, and I 463 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: do marvel at you. You exemplify the kind of grace 464 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: that can only come from faith and the kind of 465 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: resilience that so many people need but don't know how 466 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: to call up and so welcome. Let me start by 467 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: asking you how you see you know, the last several years, 468 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: ever since twelve when Trayvon was murdered, the process that 469 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: you have had to live over these years to be 470 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 1: who you are, so incredibly determined and strong and still 471 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: trying to make a difference to help people. But one 472 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: of the things I learned early on is it just 473 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: felt like it was so much pressure on me. I 474 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,560 Speaker 1: was in a space that I had never been in, 475 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: and it just felt like everything was just like coming 476 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 1: down on me. Like every time there was a shooting 477 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: or killing or something, people would reach out to me 478 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: and I didn't know how to handle it. I'm like, 479 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: I'm still going through my grief, how do I handle 480 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: helping someone else? But that was the key, the key 481 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,959 Speaker 1: to my own healing was the fact that I was 482 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: able to help somebody else. And so I learned that 483 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: early on. I reached out to other mothers all over 484 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: the United States, and and that was the key for 485 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: helping me. A lot of times we think that, Okay, well, 486 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: I'm in this square by myself. Let me just deal 487 00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 1: with this by myself and my own way and my 488 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: own thing, do my own things. But that's so not it. 489 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 1: It's it's about helping others. And the more I reached 490 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: out and helped up the us, the more it took 491 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: the pressure off of me and what I was going through. 492 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: And so I certainly can tell you that I've I've 493 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: been through a lot. I've been through a lot, but 494 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,920 Speaker 1: I just thank God that he continued to carry me 495 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: and to move forward, because you know, quite frankly, if 496 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: I would have just stayed home and did nothing and 497 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: just been depressed, people would have understood. But I wasn't 498 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: used to being on that street. I wasn't used to 499 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: being sad, and just you know, feeling myself being helpless 500 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: and hopeless. I can tell you that I live of 501 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 1: my life in an upbeat and happy time, you know. 502 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: And then I found myself looking at here and I 503 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 1: could do nothing but cry, just look in just tears, 504 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: and I'm like, I didn't want to be there. I 505 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: didn't want to be sad and depressed all the time. 506 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: And so you do have to make a decision that 507 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: that's something that that you want to you want to 508 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: come back from. I wanted to be happy again. I 509 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: wanted to smile, and I wanted to be around people again, 510 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: when in my mind I felt that I would never 511 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: get there. I saw you with other mothers, the mothers 512 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: of the movement, who had lost children to gun violence, 513 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: as you lost your son uh to police actions, as 514 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: others lost their children, and I saw how you often 515 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: would be the person who would immediately pick up on 516 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: a difficult emotional moment for somebody else, and you would 517 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,920 Speaker 1: walk over there and stand and be not only in 518 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: witness but in support. Were there some specific people who 519 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: helped you along the way to begin to make that decision, 520 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 1: because you're right, it is a decision, but boy, it's 521 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: a hard decision. It's such a painful decision to turn 522 00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: the most devastating grief and anger about what happened into 523 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: a choice to try to live your life again, to 524 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: try to help other people. I tell people that I 525 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,040 Speaker 1: came from a long line of strong women. I grew 526 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: up with my great grandmother and my grandmother and my mother. 527 00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 1: My brother got in a car accident some years ago, 528 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 1: and he's a quadriplegic, and I watched how my mom 529 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: was with my brother, and I couldn't understand where did 530 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: she get that strength from? You know, we would go 531 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: to the hospital, and then when he got a little better, 532 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: we would go to rehab, and I was like, oh 533 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: my God, Like, if something happened to one of my kids, 534 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: like I would probably just be a basket case, and 535 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: I just I just would watch her and how strong 536 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 1: she was and how how she would encourage him. That 537 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: that's where a lot of it came from. A lot 538 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 1: of it came on. I also had pastors that were 539 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: around me that supported me, that pray for me. I 540 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 1: can certainly say that the negative people I kind of 541 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: got away from um and until this day, I kind 542 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: of stay away from the negativity. That's why I talk 543 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: all the time about positive energy and positive people. When 544 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 1: They're surrounding yourself with positive influences because that's the only 545 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: way you're gonna move forward. Anybody could tell you, know, 546 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: you can't do it. You don't have enough money, you're 547 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: not smart enough, you you don't have enough education, you 548 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: don't anybody can say that, But it takes a real 549 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: person with character to say, yes, you can, you can 550 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,360 Speaker 1: do it. I'm gonna help you. I'm gonna inspire you, 551 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna encourage you. You also had another son, you know. 552 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: Javarus was the older brother. He was nineteen when Trayvon 553 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: was murdered. How did you help him? How did you 554 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: keep it together so that you could continue to be 555 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: the mother that he needed, just like your own mom 556 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 1: when your brother had his accident, had to take care 557 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 1: of him, but also had to continue to take care 558 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:12,360 Speaker 1: of you. Uh. For Javaris, I always knew he was watching, 559 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 1: so I would be very mindful. I was always his 560 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: role model. I was always trey Vonn's role model as well. 561 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: But I knew that he was watching, and I wanted 562 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: to show him an example of how to act during 563 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: adverse actions. When bad things happen to good people, how 564 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: do you handle those things? How do you justify those things? 565 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: How do you come back from those things? And so 566 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: one of the things that I tell him now, just 567 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: like I tell you know, I speak at a lot 568 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: of colleges and universities, and one of the things that 569 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: I tell the young people is stay focused. A lot 570 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 1: of times we get distracted by somebody else's agenda. We 571 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: have to stay focused on our agenda. I told him 572 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: to make sure that he meditates and that he praised. 573 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: I told him to make sure that when he feels 574 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: his rainy days coming, how to handle those rainy days, 575 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: how to embrace those rainy days, how to allow himself 576 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: to have a bad day and then know that the 577 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,160 Speaker 1: sun will come out again. A lot of times we 578 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: just go through our bad days and we don't understand 579 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: that the sun will certainly come out again. Recognize your 580 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: bad days because you're gonna have them. You're gonna have 581 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: them your whole life. I still have my bad days, 582 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,240 Speaker 1: there's no getting around them. But I learned how to 583 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: maneuver through those bad days because in the back of 584 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: my mind, I know that the sun will shine again. Amen. Amen, 585 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 1: We'll be back right after this quick break. You know, 586 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: when you formed along with Trayvon's father, Tracy, and your son, 587 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: the Trayvon Martin Foundation. You had a vision for how 588 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: this foundation could make a difference in the struggle against 589 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: gun violence and trying to prevent gun violence, but also 590 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: trying to provide a place an opportunity for people who 591 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: had such terrible losses to come together, like through the 592 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,880 Speaker 1: Circle of Mothers that I was honored to participate in. 593 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: Can you tell our listeners about the foundation, what it 594 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: does and how you hope it will continue to play 595 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:31,359 Speaker 1: a role in dealing with these injustices and problems we face. Well, 596 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: we have things in place to ensure that even after 597 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: my life is done and the next generation moves on, 598 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: that we have something in place to make sure that 599 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: um families understand about what happened with Trayvon and so 600 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: many other Trayvon Martins who are killed senselessly and nobody 601 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 1: is being held accountable. And so we have things. Once 602 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: a year on February, we celebrate Trayvon's birthday and not 603 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,880 Speaker 1: his death. And so every year we do a peace 604 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: walk because we believe trayvonn had a right to walk 605 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: in peace without being followed. Chase pursued profile and murder. 606 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 1: We also have a sit down dinner which is a fundraiser, 607 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: and they sing Happy Birthday to Trayvonne. And every year 608 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: I say, I'm not gonna cry, and every year a 609 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: little tear forms in my eye, but I guess that's 610 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: my mom's side of me um. And we do a 611 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 1: back to school event where we give away five hundred 612 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: book bags and school supplies. Tracy does a Circle of 613 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: Fathers where he's bringing men together to strengthen the family 614 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: circle with the men and make sure that they're better fathers, 615 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: better husband's brother sons, better brothers. Those Circle of Mothers 616 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: is about healing empowerment, and we bring moms in from 617 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: all over the United States and and hopes that they 618 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,160 Speaker 1: can heal during a weekend together to let them know 619 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:58,879 Speaker 1: that they're not alone and for them to go through 620 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: the process of just knowing you have someone in your corner, 621 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: you have someone on your side, because of course you know, 622 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: as women, we heal a little differently from me and 623 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,839 Speaker 1: and you always believe when you see another woman, if 624 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: she can do what I can. We also have a 625 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: youth event where we talk about we bring about kids 626 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: together and we talk about empowering our young people like 627 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,760 Speaker 1: we talk about issues with law enforcement. We talk about 628 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: social media and how you present yourself on social media. 629 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,840 Speaker 1: We talk about setting goals and themselves. We talk about 630 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: gun violence, We talk about all of the subjects that 631 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: they don't really talk about in schools. I let them 632 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: beat up on me a little bit, because um I 633 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 1: come on as a parent and I let them ask 634 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,320 Speaker 1: me questions about why their mom or their dad did whatever, 635 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,840 Speaker 1: and so it's it's really interesting to listen to what 636 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: they have to say, and I give them my point 637 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: of view of why I think that they should not 638 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: go to parties with their friends if they're with a 639 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 1: bad group of friends. And so that's usually a busy 640 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: schedule for me um on it is, but I would 641 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: encourage your listeners to go to um Trayvon Martin Foundation 642 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 1: dot org. You know, they're able to see some of 643 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: the things that we do in the community and on 644 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: a national level as well. It's so fascinating to me 645 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,720 Speaker 1: because the lothers of the movement. Two of you decided 646 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,640 Speaker 1: to run for office. Lucy Macbeth, whose son Jordan's was murdered, 647 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: ran for Congress, and you decided to run in South 648 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 1: Florida where you grew up. Talk a little bit about 649 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: that decision, because you know that's really putting yourself out there. 650 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: How did that come about? Well, I'm gonna certainly say 651 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,840 Speaker 1: I have two thousand and sixteen when I became a 652 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: surrogate for someone named Ms. Clinton. Of course it helped 653 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: inspire not only Lucy but myself. I mean, it gave 654 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: us like a bird's eye view of what to expect. 655 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 1: But there are a few things that you did not 656 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 1: tell us because you made it look so easy and 657 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: it was not. You did not tell me the struggle 658 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: with being a woman. That is a struggle that we 659 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: need to be aware of, and I wasn't. The other 660 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: thing is the schedule, the calendar. Oh my god, I 661 00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: knew you were busy, but I didn't know you were 662 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: that busy, you know, so I can feel every barely 663 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: help time to sleep. Oh I apologize, my friend. I apologize, 664 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: but I can I can certainly tell you that I 665 00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: was inspired by you know, you running for office. And 666 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: I was inspired by Val Dimmons and and Frederica Wilson 667 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 1: and Maxine Waters, Karen Brown, Shilla Jackson Lee, like they 668 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: are so passionate about things that it I feel the 669 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 1: same way. I feel I can't complain about something unless 670 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 1: I give myself a chance to make improvements in that area. Well, 671 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,919 Speaker 1: you are a woman after my own heart, my dear, 672 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: and uh I so I so connect with what you said. 673 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: But I want to just ask before we wrap up, 674 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: how are you taking care of yourself? Because you know, 675 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 1: you've always been so determined and so intense about helping 676 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,879 Speaker 1: other people, even before you ran for office in your 677 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: professional life working for the county, following the tragic murder 678 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:40,399 Speaker 1: of your son, helping others, creating the foundation. How are 679 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: you taking care of Sabrina. Well, I was doing a 680 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: pretty good job into this pandemic came. So I'm not 681 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,839 Speaker 1: only dealing with the COVID virus. Is hurricane season for us, 682 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:56,919 Speaker 1: we have some West Nile virus. Is just a lot 683 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: and stuff going on in addition to you know, the uh, 684 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,279 Speaker 1: racial inequality that's happening here in the United States, and 685 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: so I'm doing a lot of um speaking on those 686 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: issues as well. But for the most part, I take 687 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: time out every now and then when I can, and 688 00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: I kind of just be with my family. We have 689 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: we try to have a Sunday dinner or we try 690 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: to watch a movie together, and that that's my downturn. 691 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: That's the time where I can actually relax and let 692 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: my hair down. Well, you make people proud every single day, Sabrina, 693 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: and whatever the future holds for you, You're gonna keep helping, 694 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 1: You're gonna keep reaching out, You're gonna keep making a 695 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,719 Speaker 1: difference in so many lives around you. You've made a 696 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: difference in my life. I am so admiring and really 697 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: inspired by your example. As we end, how do you 698 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: want people to think about Trayvon because you said something 699 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 1: that touched me so much that you celebrate his birthday. 700 00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,879 Speaker 1: Leave us with some thoughts about how you want us 701 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,359 Speaker 1: to remember Kim, or a particular memory that you think 702 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: about that helps to ground you. Well, I can tell 703 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 1: you I'm gonna leave on a happy note. How about that. 704 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:15,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave on the fact that Trayvonn was a 705 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:21,279 Speaker 1: mama's boy. Trayvon love, love, love his family, And it 706 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,080 Speaker 1: didn't matter where I saw him. I could be at 707 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: a park, I could be uh, coming down the street 708 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 1: in my car. He's on the sidewalk jumping up and down, 709 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: like you know. He was very affectionate, and so wherever 710 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 1: he saw me, he had to come and give me 711 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: a tight hug and give me a kiss. And I 712 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: missed that, but I remember it, and so um I 713 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,200 Speaker 1: think about that on my rainy days that I mentioned earlier. 714 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 1: I think about the tight squeezes he used to give 715 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 1: me in the in the kisses and the fact that 716 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 1: he used to call me cupcake. Oh my gosh, I 717 00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 1: love that. Oh wow, thank you for sharing that that. 718 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,240 Speaker 1: Really I will. I will keep that in my heart 719 00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,360 Speaker 1: and think about it. Thank you so much for everything 720 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,239 Speaker 1: that you're doing and continue to inspire us, continue to 721 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,479 Speaker 1: show us that even when when things are not going 722 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,680 Speaker 1: right and things are not going your way, you just 723 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,319 Speaker 1: keep it moving. And so I see that in you, 724 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: and that's where I get it from. We're gonna keep 725 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:31,760 Speaker 1: doing it together. Thank you, my friend. Now, Sabrina lost 726 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: her race for county commissioner, but you know what, she 727 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,719 Speaker 1: only lost by three hundred and thirty one votes, less 728 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 1: than one percent. It was her first time running for office, 729 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 1: but I sure hope it won't be the last. For 730 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,920 Speaker 1: more information on the incredible work that she and Trayvon's 731 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: dad are doing in memory of their Son, visit Trayvon 732 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,840 Speaker 1: Martin Foundation dot org now and in other tough times. 733 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: I hope we can all take inspiration from Sabrina and 734 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,400 Speaker 1: Patton to turn our grief into action. One action you 735 00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: can take is vote, Please vote, Make a plan, figure 736 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 1: out when, where, how you'll get there, and then call 737 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 1: up three friends or family members or neighbors and tell 738 00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:20,839 Speaker 1: them to do the same. It is much better than 739 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 1: just yelling at the TV. You and Me Both is 740 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 1: brought to you by I Heart Radio. We're produced by 741 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,840 Speaker 1: Julie Subran and Kathleen Russo, with help from Kuma Aberdeen, 742 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: Nikki E Tour, Oscar Flores, Rihanna Johnson, Nick Merrill, Lauren Peterson, 743 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:46,040 Speaker 1: Rob Russo, and Lona Valmorro. Our engineer is Zap McNeice. 744 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,600 Speaker 1: Original music is by Forest Gray and a big thanks 745 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:55,960 Speaker 1: to Riverside FM. Just imagine we needed a recording platform 746 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,480 Speaker 1: that could help us make a podcast during a pandemic 747 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,080 Speaker 1: and did they step up. If you like You and 748 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: Me Both, spread the word, don't keep it to yourself. 749 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,359 Speaker 1: You can subscribe to You and Me Both on the 750 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,879 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get 751 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 1: your podcasts. And while you're there, leave us a review. 752 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:18,040 Speaker 1: It's a great way to help other people discover us, 753 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,839 Speaker 1: and we'd love to hear from you, So send us 754 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 1: your questions, your comments, your ideas or suggestions for future 755 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:30,880 Speaker 1: shows to you and me, both pod at gmail dot com. 756 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: Come back next week when we're talking about the promise 757 00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: and the limits of the American Dream with economist Rod Chetty, 758 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 1: long time immigration reform advocate Lorella pray Lee, and the 759 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:49,320 Speaker 1: one and only Tan France from the Netflix series Queer. I. 760 00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:52,360 Speaker 1: I wanted to be an American system pretty much my 761 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:56,200 Speaker 1: whole life, and so the moment that it happened, I 762 00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,239 Speaker 1: was so overcome with emotion. The all I could do 763 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: was donuts because that was the most American thing I 764 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 1: could think of. I went to the donuts shop down 765 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,919 Speaker 1: the street and eight donuts, and that was my version 766 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 1: of being a true American. Don't miss it, Ye