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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and one hundred and twenty eight Democrats

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Speaker 1: across the aisle to help Republicans block Al Green's bid

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Speaker 1: to impeach Trump. We have such a great show for

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Speaker 1: you today, the Think Like an Economists podcast. Justin Wolfers

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Speaker 1: joins us to talk about trade. Then we'll talk to

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Speaker 1: Fair Votes David Daily about why rank choice voting is

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Speaker 1: actually amazing and should be everywhere.

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Speaker 2: But first the news, Molly, I have to say, in

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Speaker 2: our years of dealing with politics, I don't think I've

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Speaker 2: ever seen New York City's elites with their bed like

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Speaker 2: they have today over zor on Mom Donnie getting the

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Speaker 2: Democratic nomination era. It seems the business world and the

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Speaker 2: Democratic establishment are well, really really overdoing the drama about

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Speaker 2: what this means.

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Speaker 1: It is unbelievably crazy how angry things people are.

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Speaker 3: Here's what's happening. A lot of people.

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Speaker 1: Are worried that he's going to raise taxes, and that

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Speaker 1: is really what's happening. I think there are some people

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Speaker 1: who are worried he's not sufficiently pro Israel enough, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the mayor of New York has

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Speaker 1: to do with Israel particularly, but a well known investor

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Speaker 1: deleted an ex post suggesting mon Donnie's win was a

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Speaker 1: nightmare for billionaire investors, name checking Bloomberg, Ackman, and Low.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't me who did that, but it could have been. Look,

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Speaker 1: a lot of very rich people are already saying they're

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Speaker 1: going to move to Florida.

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Speaker 3: If I had a dollar for every.

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Speaker 1: Time wealthy people got mad and said they were going

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Speaker 1: to move, I would have a lot of dollars.

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Speaker 2: You'd have a lot because there was actually a study

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Speaker 2: on this one. The last time they said it when

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Speaker 2: Bill de Bungler got elected and guess what, we got

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Speaker 2: even more of them here.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Now, I want to caution because you and I

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Speaker 1: both are Mom and Donnie curious.

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Speaker 2: I'm a little more than curious.

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Speaker 1: You're maybe a little less curious, but I'm very curious

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Speaker 1: about him, and I have a lot of optimism about this.

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Speaker 3: That's all I say.

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Speaker 1: But we do want to note that being mayor is

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Speaker 1: really fucking hard.

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Speaker 3: And you know, it's a lot of shit that you.

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Speaker 1: Have to do, and sometimes we get excited and then

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Speaker 1: people can't do it now. I don't think that's going

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Speaker 1: to be the case here. But no one has ever

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Speaker 1: been mayor who has ever gone on to anything.

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Speaker 3: It's just a fact.

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Speaker 2: As you and I have discussed many times, it's not

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Speaker 2: a job you leave being popular as New York City mayor.

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Speaker 2: It's just doesn't go so well for your approval.

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Speaker 1: And in my mind, that's the scariest part about this win.

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Speaker 1: But he obviously wants it, and he's quite a gifted politician.

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Speaker 1: So we're just gonna all keep our fingers and toes crossed.

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Speaker 1: But Fox News, I just want everyone to be aware,

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Speaker 1: is now going to go full core press on New

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Speaker 1: York City being a houscape and anything they did to

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Speaker 1: Eric Adams is going to be one hundred times worse

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Speaker 1: to Zoran.

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Speaker 2: That's funny because Eric Adams was just on news Max

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Speaker 2: because he knows which folks he's running for. So yes,

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Speaker 2: it's going to be a very wild ride from here

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Speaker 2: to November.

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Speaker 3: It's going to be a terrible general election. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I would really encourage a lot of people to, instead

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Speaker 2: of reading propaganda from campaigns, actually read some quotes that

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Speaker 2: some people say, because boy, have I never seen misinformation

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Speaker 2: fly like the last two days on Twitter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I would also suggest not reading the New York

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Speaker 1: Post as much as we love page six. You know,

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Speaker 1: we have one local paper, it's a New York Post.

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Speaker 2: We have two, we have two. Come only news does exist?

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Speaker 1: Okay, we have one local paper, it's the New York Post.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 1: Look, I like the Daily News much more ideologically aligned

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Speaker 1: with that. But you know, don't read it. Okay, just

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Speaker 1: read page six and throw the rest of the thing out.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to get us onto another subject.

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Speaker 3: You're not going to cut that out.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: If one thing put.

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Speaker 2: On, the listeners will be we be hearing that. Bali

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Speaker 2: jug Fast endorses page.

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Speaker 1: Six, indorses page six, but tells you to throw the

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Speaker 1: rest of the newspaper, and then you're opposed to out.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. So Trump is going to limit sharing classified

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Speaker 2: info with Congress after the week on I Red's bombing

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Speaker 2: damage because he's very upset that everybody found out that

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Speaker 2: he bungled this.

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Speaker 1: If you can't read the headline without laughing, then it's

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Speaker 1: a Donald Trump headline. So I just want to point

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Speaker 1: out I know that there have been other things going on,

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Speaker 1: but let's just go through this again. Trump on Saturday decides, unprovoked,

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Speaker 1: that he is going to bomb a Rand's nuclear site.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he does it because he was watching Fox News.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he does it because Net and Yahoo makes him

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Speaker 1: want to do it.

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Speaker 3: Who even what lurks in the mind of Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: But whatever he does, he decides to bomb the nuclear

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Speaker 1: sites in Iran.

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Speaker 3: He tweets about it a lot.

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Speaker 1: He decide they have numerous planes going over there, they

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Speaker 1: have decoys. Now we don't know. Trump said he destroyed

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Speaker 1: all of the nukes and that he's the greatest president ever.

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Speaker 1: He also said that he's six four and has a

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Speaker 1: full head of natural hair, and that gets that color

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Speaker 1: from the sun. Okay, so I'm gonna say a lot

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Speaker 1: of the reporting I've read shows that maybe they're back

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Speaker 1: a few months.

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Speaker 3: Maybe they're not.

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Speaker 1: Maybe some of the nukes are in other places. Maybe

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Speaker 1: Aran doesn't know where they are. I mean, this has

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Speaker 1: not solved anyone's problems. It's made life a little more dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Then a Monday, Trump declared a ceasefire. Again, not entirely

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Speaker 1: clear if there is a ceasefire, because when you have

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Speaker 1: a white house like this, you can't believe anything they say.

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Speaker 1: But the point of all of this is Iran probably

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Speaker 1: not very you know, probably would have been better just

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Speaker 1: to have kept them in the nuclear deal like Obama did.

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Speaker 1: This doesn't make any sense. And also Trump now embarrassed

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Speaker 1: and trying to cover for himself, and so he's trying

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Speaker 1: to leak the information that's given to Congress in the

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Speaker 1: hopes that he will look better in the press. Again,

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Speaker 1: I just want to point out, this is so fucked Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is not how any of this is supposed to work.

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Speaker 1: This is just a completely bad, bad, very dysfunctional way

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Speaker 1: to run a country.

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Speaker 2: Strongly, so we now have seen Nancy Pelosi backing a

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Speaker 2: Democratic effort to limit Trump on Oran and going to war.

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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting to hear this bipartisan support for this,

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Speaker 2: but don't know where it's going. What are you seeing?

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, it's very scary to think that someone

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Speaker 1: as autocratic, curious Trump is very aggressive and very angry

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Speaker 1: and hard to reason with. And this seems like a

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Speaker 1: very worrying turn of events. And bombing the nukes is

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Speaker 1: you know, this was an unprovoked assault on another country

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Speaker 1: that was not run through Congress the way it's supposed

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Speaker 1: to be. So Congress has so given up everything to

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Speaker 1: have this presidency. They have really just refused to hold

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Speaker 1: Trump accountable. They did not do due diligence with his

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Speaker 1: cabinet members. They did not, you know, at every point,

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Speaker 1: they just gave away their power. So anything that Congress

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Speaker 1: does to take back a little bit of power I

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Speaker 1: think is very good. Congress should grow a spine. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, the fact that there's only one person

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Speaker 1: who's really standing up to Trump on the Republican side,

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Speaker 1: Thomas Massey and Rand Paul. You know, you may not

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Speaker 1: like them, you may not agree with them, but those

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Speaker 1: guys have done way more than Susan Collins.

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Speaker 2: Yes, sounds right. So Molly, you're going to be shocked

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Speaker 2: to hear that there's some corrupt dealing inside the House

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Speaker 2: of the White House. This time it's Stephen Miller, who

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Speaker 2: turns out owns a quarter of a million dollars of

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Speaker 2: Pollunteer stock. That's the high end estiment, I should say.

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Speaker 2: And Pollunteer, of course, is being contracted to do work

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Speaker 2: with Ice.

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Speaker 1: No, no, it cannot be. Pollenteer is getting a lot

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Speaker 1: of government contracts. We've had so many guests on this podcast,

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Speaker 1: who have told us about the many, many, many government

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Speaker 1: contracts that volunteer has gotten. Look the idea that you

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Speaker 1: could profit while serving your country. This is what Trump

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Speaker 1: wanted in from one point zero and has perfected in

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Speaker 1: Trump two point zero, which is this kind of low

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Speaker 1: level cryptocracy. Now that said Miller doesn't have a ton

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Speaker 1: of palateer stock. He has somewhere between one hundred and

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Speaker 1: two one hundred and fifty thousand dollars worth of pounder stock.

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Speaker 1: And you know, this is like the Elon musk Lesson.

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Speaker 1: We know pollunteer data intelligence mining software. They're not the

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Speaker 1: good guys, okay, And just like with Elon, we're setting

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Speaker 1: ourselves up so that the government is going to be

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Speaker 1: dependent on a company that is at best nefarious. Justin

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Speaker 1: Wolfers is the host of the Think Like an Economist

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Speaker 1: podcast and a professor at the University of Michigan.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Fast Politics, Justin Wolfers.

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Speaker 4: He Molly, I thought we're going to rename it fast Economics.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: We're in this such a fucked up moment in American life.

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Speaker 1: You came on a lot to talk about the trade wars.

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Speaker 1: We've now won the trade wars, So that's over.

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Speaker 5: That was the war the wolf, the trade fl is

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Speaker 5: who I'm going for those of us.

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Speaker 1: Who have not been living and breathing Donald Trump ruining

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Speaker 1: our economy. Talk to us about where we are right now?

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Speaker 4: Great question, because actually it's very, very hard to read.

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Speaker 4: So what I want to do is draw a distinction

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Speaker 4: between what economists call hard data. These are the numbers

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Speaker 4: that come out of the government, and it's things like

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Speaker 4: how much we produce, how many people are employed, what

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Speaker 4: are they paid, what's rolling off the production line, versus

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Speaker 4: soft data when you go and ask people how they feel,

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Speaker 4: and it could be as simple as like are you

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Speaker 4: optimistic about the future of the economy, But it could

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Speaker 4: also be asking a business like do you plan to

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Speaker 4: invest a lot? So soft data and hard data, it's

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Speaker 4: not a strong distinction, but it's it's important. It turns

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Speaker 4: out right now the soft data are incredibly weak, unbelievably weak.

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Speaker 4: In a recession week, you ask people about their own finances,

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Speaker 4: their families, finances, their expectations for their business, they're miserable.

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Speaker 4: You'll sometimes see some headlines which is business confidence rose,

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Speaker 4: but that's because it rose from like horrific to terrible.

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Speaker 4: So remember, don't think about rise and fall, think about

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Speaker 4: where we are. So the soft data there is miserable.

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Speaker 4: The hard data is not. Now it's it's not ecstatic,

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Speaker 4: but it's basically saying we're in a pretty good economy

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Speaker 4: where we were in a great position when Trump came

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Speaker 4: to power, and things have kept going. The unemployment rate

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Speaker 4: was low, it's still low. The number of people who

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Speaker 4: have jobs is still growing. The economy had a bit

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Speaker 4: of a blip, maybe not so much. Now here's the problem.

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Speaker 4: It's a really deep problem. Tariffs screw everything up. And

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Speaker 4: I'm not saying they're bad for the economy. I'm saying

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Speaker 4: they make the economy hard to read.

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Speaker 3: Here's why.

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Speaker 4: In the first quarter of this year, everyone knew tariffs

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Speaker 4: were coming, so businesses all of a sudden started importing

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Speaker 4: all the inventory they could get from China, and as

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Speaker 4: a result, the trade balance blew out. But there was

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Speaker 4: a lot of spending. But what they're doing is they're

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Speaker 4: trying to get ahead of the tariffs. So that made

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Speaker 4: business spending and in fact, a lot of consumers that

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Speaker 4: you might have friends who bought a dishwasher or a

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Speaker 4: washing machine or a laptop in advance, So a lot

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Speaker 4: of spending occurred. Now that spending is not because the

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Speaker 4: economy is strong, it's because they're trying to get ahead. Now,

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Speaker 4: a lot of what they were buying is stuff they

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Speaker 4: would have bought in the second quarter, and so there's

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Speaker 4: an echo effect. Don't believe the first quarter numbers. They're

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Speaker 4: too strong. The second quarter is sort of going to

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Speaker 4: be too weak. Right, So that means we don't actually

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Speaker 4: know where the economy is going in the hard data.

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Speaker 4: But it's actually even worse than that, because in the

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Speaker 4: middle of all of this, Trump kept messing around with

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Speaker 4: tariff some more. You might remember that lovely weekend where

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Speaker 4: on a Friday tariffs on the European Union were fifty

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Speaker 4: percent and by Monday they were back down to ten percent.

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Speaker 4: I've also got to lie nine coming up, which is

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Speaker 4: the end of ninety and ninety days.

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Speaker 1: Right, And by the way, do we have ninety deals

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Speaker 1: and ninety days?

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Speaker 4: I am not going to follow your add brain now.

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Speaker 4: I am going to finish my store, but you do.

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Speaker 1: But we don't have ninety days and ninety deals and

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Speaker 1: ninety days. I just want to point.

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Speaker 4: Still going to finish my story, all right, right? An

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Speaker 4: you tell me I'm getting boring.

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Speaker 1: No, I'm telling you I am completely completely tuned in

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Speaker 1: on what you're saying. Go on, really going, I can

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Speaker 1: test you now, just keep going, God damn.

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Speaker 5: Okay.

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Speaker 4: The thing is the present keeps currying around with tariffs.

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Speaker 4: So what could happen is people front run again, right,

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Speaker 4: and that'll screw up our economic data through this year.

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Speaker 4: So we're here from Molly. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: We're not getting a clear picture of what the data

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Speaker 1: of what is happening.

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Speaker 4: So when someone says to you, oh, the hard data

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Speaker 4: is all good, you're like, it's distorted by tariff nonsense.

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Speaker 4: So normally what we do in a moment like that

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Speaker 4: is we turn to the soft data. Right with the

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Speaker 4: soft data is it's so bad. It turns out some

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Speaker 4: people don't like Trump. It turns out that he's been

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Speaker 4: a polarizing figure. And so for the previous fifty years

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Speaker 4: in American life, when you ask someone what do you

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Speaker 4: think about the state of the economy, they would answer

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Speaker 4: that question by thinking about the state of the economy.

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Speaker 4: Now what they do is they think about who's present,

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Speaker 4: whether they like that guy, and they answered that way.

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Speaker 4: So the soft data have become unreliable, which means we're

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Speaker 4: sailing through very, very thick fog. Anyone who tells you

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Speaker 4: they're certain it's good or bad is wrong.

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Speaker 3: Can we trust the data we get from our government?

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Speaker 4: Yes, I love that question, Thank you, MOLLI. I want

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Speaker 4: to put in astix. Okay, here's the asterisks. The official

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Speaker 4: data coming from the government, anything that comes from the

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Speaker 4: Bureau of Labor Statistics, the Bureau of Economic Analysis, the

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Speaker 4: Census Bureau, stuff produced by nerds is totally reliable. I'm

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Speaker 4: not saying it's perfect. I'm saying it's the best statistical

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Speaker 4: guess of things that are very hard to guess. Anything

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Speaker 4: coming out of the White House, which has a history

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Speaker 4: of stretching the truth, lying at best, bullshit and so on,

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Speaker 4: and also in competence, so sometimes they put out falsehoods

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Speaker 4: because they don't know truths, is utterly unreliable. Now, often

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Speaker 4: the White House will be reporting on their understanding of

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Speaker 4: the official data. But I do think it's important. I

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Speaker 4: don't believe a word coming out of the Treasury Secretary,

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Speaker 4: the Commerce Secretary, the President, the White House Press secretary,

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Speaker 4: or in fact, anyone who's spent more than fourteen minutes

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Speaker 4: contaminated on the White House grounds, but official government data

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Speaker 4: is okay. Second ASTERIXX. There is a little bit of

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Speaker 4: defunding of the government statistical nerds going on right now.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's why I am ask that question because that's

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Speaker 1: what I had been told.

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Speaker 4: Right. It's really a bad idea, because it's really good

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Speaker 4: to know where the economy is.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: Remember I just told you we're galling through fog. Wouldn't

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Speaker 4: it be good if the world were a little clearer.

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Speaker 4: But the thing about that is that makes the statistics

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Speaker 4: less reliable, but it doesn't make them more trumpy. Right,

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Speaker 4: So if you're worried all this telling stories, this is nonsense,

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Speaker 4: This is bullshit. No, And here's the thing I want

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Speaker 4: your listeners to understand. I'm not just a talking head

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Speaker 4: who's just saying a thing. I have so many friends

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Speaker 4: in these statistical agencies. They're PhD economists, they're super nerds,

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Speaker 4: and I love them, and they're super committed to their

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Speaker 4: work and their craft. And I promise you if they

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Speaker 4: were being asked to distort for political reasons, there will

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Speaker 4: suddenly lots of anonymous Gmail messages appearing in my inbox,

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Speaker 4: and I will then call you, Molly and say, I

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Speaker 4: got to talk to your people. This has got to

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Speaker 4: get out there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, because you are an academic, right I mean a nerd?

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Speaker 1: And well I don't I as someone who's married to

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Speaker 1: an academic, I don't think of it as being a nerd.

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Speaker 1: So we can trust the data out of the government

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Speaker 1: for now and tell us about the ninety deals in

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Speaker 1: ninety days. Also, it's amazing to me, you know who

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Speaker 1: has completely disappeared from the conversation.

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Speaker 4: You're going to have to tell me because I must

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Speaker 4: have forgotten who they are. Ron Vera, Well that is

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Speaker 4: that is why don't you explain to the listeners?

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Speaker 3: Because really deep, I'll let you explain to the listeners.

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Speaker 4: So can I go back to the beginning of that story?

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Speaker 4: Is quite lovely, which is, of course, we know the

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Speaker 4: President Trump hates trade, so he asked Jared Kushner very

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Speaker 4: early on. He said, find me a trade advisor who's

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Speaker 4: also against trade. The problem is that nearly every economist

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Speaker 4: thinks that when you find ways to enrich the life

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Speaker 4: of others and they find ways to enrich your life,

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Speaker 4: that's a good thing. So you have to go shopping

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Speaker 4: to find someone who's on the other side of that.

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Speaker 4: So Jared Kushner went to Amazon and found a fellow

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Speaker 4: who written a book that said how much he hated China.

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Speaker 4: So that's great, you get racism for free with your

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Speaker 4: anti trade theories. That book was written by a fellow

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Speaker 4: by the name of Pete Navarro, who is now a

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Speaker 4: convicted felon, but at the time was a professor of Economa.

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Speaker 3: Just had bad ideas. Right.

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Speaker 4: Look, life is hard to some people. And some people

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Speaker 4: grow up thinking that they're going to be the smartest

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Speaker 4: kid in the room, and they are all the way

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Speaker 4: through high school, and then at a certain point they

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Speaker 4: top out and they become bitter, and they come to

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Speaker 4: believe that they and they alone hold the keys to

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Speaker 4: all truth. So this book that Jared Kushner bought. The

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Speaker 4: author of the book was written by Peter Navarro, who

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Speaker 4: throughout this book keeps writing about how an expert ron

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Speaker 4: Vara authenticates everything that he says. Now you'll notice if

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Speaker 4: you play a lot of scrabble, that ron Vara is

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Speaker 4: just a rearrangement of the letters of Peter Navarro. So

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Speaker 4: it is true. There are two economists in the world

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Speaker 4: who support what the president is doing. They just both

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Speaker 4: happen to be the same person. How did you get

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Speaker 4: me to start? I'm not bitch or can I'm a person.

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Speaker 4: I like people.

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Speaker 3: Sure, don't do that to me again, Molly baby? And

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Speaker 3: ninety days ago?

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Speaker 4: How many times we're going to say something nice about someone?

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Speaker 4: Can we have a nice break?

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Speaker 1: Okay, say something nice about someone? Vasa Trump is very tall?

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Speaker 4: You know what? Okay, I'm going to say two nice things,

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Speaker 4: and I'm going to challenge your So the first one's easy,

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Speaker 4: which is I admire J. Powell, who's getting called all

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Speaker 4: sorts of names.

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Speaker 3: And then that guy that is a remarkable job. He

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Speaker 3: is having a tough, tough job. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: And when I want to upset my liberal students, and

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Speaker 4: I sometimes want to julp them a little bit, I

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Speaker 4: tell them that the most important economic policy prehaps of

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Speaker 4: my lifetime happened under and was caused by President Trump,

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Speaker 4: and that was the invention of the vaccine. Without the vaccine,

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Speaker 4: we would not be out doing business, enjoying our lives

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Speaker 4: and so on. And so I want to tip my

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Speaker 4: hat to President Trump and Operation warp Speed.

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Speaker 3: My eighty D is getting bored. Okay, you still.

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Speaker 4: Didn't say anything nice.

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Speaker 3: I said of uncle Trump is very tall.

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Speaker 4: That is mostly true. Okay, deals very very tall.

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Speaker 3: Yep, that's not nothing.

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Speaker 4: Go and she and I share a and you share

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Speaker 4: a hair color.

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Speaker 3: That is sort of go on, continue ninety.

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Speaker 4: Deals in ninety days, We'll promise by Pinavara and the

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Speaker 4: President and the Treasury Secretary and the Commerce secretary, ninety

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Speaker 4: deals in ninety days. We're about seventy days in right now.

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Speaker 4: We sort of kind of have a deal with the UK.

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Speaker 4: Last time I spoke with your audience. The deal we

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Speaker 4: had was a pre deal. It was a deal to

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Speaker 4: make a deal outline of a deal that subsequently became

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Speaker 4: a deal. Although in that deal the most important part

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Speaker 4: of it for the British was letting British steal in

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Speaker 4: and that is still being negotiated, so even the deal

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Speaker 4: is still mid deal. So that means we've got eighty

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Speaker 4: nine other deals to go, and that ignores the other

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Speaker 4: one hundred and two countries in the world. And then

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Speaker 4: today we had President Trump over at NATO where he's

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Speaker 4: upset at the Spanish threatening to put extra double tariffs

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Speaker 4: on Spain. So to be clear, he's upset about American

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Speaker 4: military spending, Sorry about Spanish military spending. So he's decided

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Speaker 4: to impose taxes on Americans. Yes, it's not the most

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Speaker 4: direct way of doing foreign poves.

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Speaker 3: No, it's pretty crazy.

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Speaker 4: So look, the deals aren't happening. It's clear they're not

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Speaker 4: going to happen. I think that if people were betting

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Speaker 4: on zero at the end, the White House will pull

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Speaker 4: something out. So it's basically not going to happen. But

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Speaker 4: there is this problem, which is on July ninth, if

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Speaker 4: you don't have a deal, something's going to happen. And

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Speaker 4: we don't. And remember July ninth is going back to

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Speaker 4: Liberation Day, which we all knew was a disaster. So

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Speaker 4: the problem with governing in ninety day pauses is time

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Speaker 4: keeps ticking and you actually still have to make a decision,

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Speaker 4: and we have no indication so far of a coherent

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Speaker 4: decision being made.

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Speaker 1: Right now, there are still tariffs in place, and they're

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Speaker 1: like weird. So for example, I wonder if you could

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Speaker 1: just run us through where we are. We have tariffs

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Speaker 1: on Mexico and Canada, but just ten percent right.

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Speaker 4: Even better than that, which is those guys actually ended

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Speaker 4: up our lowest tariff partners having started the trade war

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Speaker 4: by fighting them, they're actually now my best friends again,

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Speaker 4: which is anything that meets the conditions of the old NAFTA,

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Speaker 4: which is now called USMCA.

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Speaker 3: Right, because like, oh but okay.

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Speaker 4: So there's two ways in which tariffs work, and I

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Speaker 4: apologize to your audience for the confusion, but let me

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Speaker 4: just say I didn't design them. There's tariffs that are

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Speaker 4: going on countries, right, and then there are so think

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Speaker 4: about that as horizontal and their verticals, which is tariff's

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Speaker 4: on industries, okay, And so Canada still, I believe Canada

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Speaker 4: and Mexico, I believe is still getting steel and aluminum,

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Speaker 4: order certain auto parts these industries. So in the words,

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Speaker 4: we've got pharmaceuticals coming and so on and so forth.

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Speaker 4: Those ones, by the way, rest on them much stronger

439
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 4: legal basis. Right then, country by country, We've got China

440
00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 4: right now at thirty percent. We are charging Americans thirty

441
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 4: percent for everything they buy from China, and we've got

442
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 4: the rest of the world at ten percent. And unless

443
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 4: anyone thinks that any of this is a low tariff raid,

444
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 4: I just want to remind you that this would put

445
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 4: tariffs at the highest rate in at least fifty years.

446
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:24,639
Speaker 3: It would put us in greater depression.

447
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 4: Right, it depends what day, because they literally are changing

448
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,640
Speaker 4: the tariff's day by day. Right, would put us four

449
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 4: or five times higher than any other industrialized country. So

450
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 4: this is not what grown ups do, Mollie. I have

451
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 4: a fun thing I want to bring to the conversation.

452
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: Mat plase, yes, and then I have another question about

453
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 1: I won't have a question about steel tariffs.

454
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,479
Speaker 4: Go on, Okay, this is better than steel tariffs. This

455
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 4: is Jdevans. So remember, way back when I think it

456
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 4: was two days ago, we ate a lot about Iran

457
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 4: in the Strait of Homors, which is this very little

458
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 4: narrow part where a lot of the oil tankers go through.

459
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 4: So jd Vance said, this is a quote, and I

460
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 4: just want to get the quote out for people there.

461
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 4: He's talking about Iran. Their entire economy runs through the

462
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 4: Strait of Homos. If they want to destroy their own

463
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 4: economy and cause disruptions in the world, I think that

464
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 4: would be their decision. But why would they do that.

465
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 4: I don't think it makes any sense right now. He

466
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 4: was talking about Iran. But now just let's think about

467
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 4: how this speaks to the United States. So for us,

468
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 4: much of our economy runs through our ports, just as

469
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 4: much of the Iranian economy runs through the Strait of Homos,

470
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 4: And just as Iran can use its military to prevent

471
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,120
Speaker 4: ships passing through the Strait of Homos, Trump has been

472
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 4: using tariffs to prevent ships coming into the LA ports

473
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 4: and retaliatory tariffs to prevent them from leaving. And so

474
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 4: much as those shipping restrictions would hurt the Iranian economy,

475
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 4: this is hurting our own economy much as Vance said,

476
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 4: This is again is a quote. If they want to

477
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 4: destroy their own economy and cause disruptions in the world,

478
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 4: I think that would be their decision. That's literally what

479
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 4: Trump is doing with tariffs. And remember Vans and but

480
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 4: why would they do that? I don't think it makes

481
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 4: any sense. And I think that Evans has done a

482
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 4: terrific job in pointing out the aut incoherence of this

483
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 4: trade policy.

484
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: Yes, correct and also hilarious. Now talk to me about

485
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: the steel tariffs, because there are steel tariffs that Trump

486
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: is putting on and they actually are, weirdly one of

487
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 1: the few things that Democrats agree with.

488
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:33,840
Speaker 3: So talk to us about that.

489
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, then Democrats about make me a very very big mistake.

490
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,360
Speaker 3: I'm just telling you, and that's my job here.

491
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 4: No, and I appreciate you. Molly. I was like, steel

492
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 4: sounds boring, but now I understand why it's important.

493
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

494
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 4: Yeah. And also the steel is paid with tariffs on

495
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 4: another metal. What is it, Molly, aluminum? Aluminium?

496
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 3: Yes? Go on, go on, go on, go on, yest.

497
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 4: Little Australian American humanity.

498
00:24:58,080 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 3: Hilarious.

499
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,480
Speaker 4: Okay, here's why steal tariffs are a terrible, terrible, terrible idea.

500
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:11,880
Speaker 1: But first explain why liberals, why some Democrats also support them.

501
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: You might do a better job on that than me, But.

502
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 3: Anyway, tell why they're bad, Say why they're bad.

503
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 4: Okay, what I can say is, you know, back in

504
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 4: the eighties, the particularly pro union parts of the labor

505
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 4: movement were quite protectionists. So Trump has taken a position

506
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 4: that was historically a very liberal position. When I began

507
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 4: my teaching career, my left wing students hated it when

508
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 4: I talked about trade. Now it's my right wing.

509
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: Students, right.

510
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:39,680
Speaker 1: Really important point that Democrats used to be protectionist before Clinton,

511
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: and then they shifted right.

512
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 4: During was fighting Democrats to get it done right. So

513
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 4: I want to let me actually start with a bigger

514
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: picture point, which is when many people think about trade,

515
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 4: they think about like France sends us bottles of wine

516
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,440
Speaker 4: and we send them cars, that we create the whole

517
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 4: damn car and send it over there, and they create

518
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 4: the whole damn bottle of wine and send it over here.

519
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 4: That's not how it works in reality. We don't have

520
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 4: any rubber trees in America, so we don't make the

521
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 4: whole damn car. We got to get the rubber from

522
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 4: abroad to make the tires. And it's not just rubber

523
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 4: and rubber trees. It turns out that all the different

524
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 4: components of the car come from all computer chips might

525
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 4: come from Taiwan, and the seats might come from Canada,

526
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,399
Speaker 4: and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. The moment

527
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 4: you realize that, you realize that when you put tariffs

528
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 4: on something, you're not just putting tariffs on consumers. You're

529
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 4: putting tariffs on American businesses. So there's two things that

530
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 4: are really important about steel and aluminium. First of all,

531
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 4: stick they are very very important inputs into other parts

532
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,399
Speaker 4: of manufacturing. So what that means is every factory around

533
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 4: the world can get access to steel without paying a

534
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 4: special up charge, except those in America. So what you're

535
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 4: doing is you are making American factories that you steal

536
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 4: less competitive than any other countries.

537
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 3: They have to pay more because of the tariffs.

538
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 4: Oh that reminds me. Let me make a second point

539
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 4: that is obvious to economists but needs to be Some

540
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 4: people say, oh, just buy American steel.

541
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: There is no American steel.

542
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 4: There is American steel.

543
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:07,400
Speaker 3: Oh.

544
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 4: But the problem is if you're an American steel manufacturer

545
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 4: and your customer calls and says, I'd like to buy

546
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 4: some steel, you can say, well, you could either buy

547
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 4: from me or buy from those foreign guys. And if

548
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,640
Speaker 4: you buy from those foreign guys, you have to pay

549
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 4: a twenty percent tariff. Right, all of a sudden, now

550
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 4: I realize I can jack up my price and you

551
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 4: don't have a better choiceh So when you say, oh,

552
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 4: just buy American, sure you can buy American, but I

553
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 4: guarantee you because steel is traded internationally, it's all the

554
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 4: price is going to get equalized. And so as a result,

555
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 4: the price of American steel goes up almost one for

556
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 4: one with a tariff. So it's not just imports that

557
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 4: become more expensive. It's also American steel, it becomes more expensive.

558
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 3: Oh, that makes a lot of sense.

559
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 4: It's called in economics, by the way, the lore of

560
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 4: one price. When something is traded internationally, we at one

561
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 4: price around the world. Okay, now I want to tell

562
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 4: you why steel is a really really bad place for

563
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 4: what tariffs.

564
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: No, because we're almost out a time, and I want

565
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: you to talk to us about how the Middle East

566
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 1: is going to affect the economy.

567
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,119
Speaker 4: Ryan has been fascinating and we all became experts on

568
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 4: the Iranian economy and it's been a terrific couple of

569
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,120
Speaker 4: days learning about it. And a lot of people have said, oh,

570
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 4: that Trump is it's a master stroke in the Middle East,

571
00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 4: and in some sense it is. It hasn't turned into bushes.

572
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 4: I raq nonsense.

573
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been like four days, but yes, And.

574
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 4: I just want to remind you that as of today's Tuesday, Wednesday,

575
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 4: whatever day it is, I.

576
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 3: Think it's Wednesday, we are now back.

577
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 4: To exactly where we were seven days ago. The great

578
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 4: triumph is that he restored relations to where they had been.

579
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: Right.

580
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 4: If that stays, then basically nothing changes right right?

581
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 3: Right?

582
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 4: If that doesn't and Iran's oil production goes down. That's

583
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 4: not a big deal, right, because Iran is only two

584
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,120
Speaker 4: or three percent of global production. The reason we've all

585
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,880
Speaker 4: learned how to pronounce the Strait of Homus is because

586
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 4: that's this tiny little alley where all of the oil,

587
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 4: particular from Saudi Arabia goes through, but also the Emirates,

588
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 4: and so twenty percent of global oil goes through that.

589
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 4: So if Iran were to close that, that would be

590
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,160
Speaker 4: a massive decline in the amount of oil available. Now,

591
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 4: realize the United States is basically is in fact energy independent,

592
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 4: So it's not that we're going to lose a lot

593
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 4: of money. But remember what I said a moment ago

594
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 4: about the law of one price. It's going to become

595
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 4: more expensive for oil, including American oil, right, And so Americans,

596
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 4: even though we're mostly buying American oil, are going to

597
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 4: be paying more if the straight up Homewars closes. So

598
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 4: that's the real problem is if there's a shock to

599
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 4: global oil supply, it's not going to be a big

600
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 4: shock to our income because again, remember we actually produce

601
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 4: more than we use. But it would be a shock

602
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 4: to prices, and so it could potentially have further effects

603
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 4: on inflation. But right now I am hopeful that our

604
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 4: steady and stable foreign policy will continue to reap incredible rewards.

605
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you, Justin for adding a

606
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: bit of levity.

607
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 3: That wasn't liberty, that was the stable foreign policy. Jesus

608
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 3: fucking Christ, Thank you.

609
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: David Daly is a senior fellow at Fair Vote and

610
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: the author of rat Fucked, Why Your Vote Doesn't Count.

611
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 3: Welcome back to Fast Politics, David, Oh, it's good to

612
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 3: be here, Molly.

613
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: Let's talk about rank choice voting. I still don't understand

614
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: how it works.

615
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 3: That's the truth.

616
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 1: Like I saw the election of Mary Paroda in Alaska

617
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: congresswoman for Alaska's one congressional seat Democrat one through ranked

618
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 1: choice voting. I saw we got Eric Adams. Nobody wanted

619
00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: that through rank choice voting. But now we have mon Dannie,

620
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: who actually was leading in the polls and is reflective

621
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,840
Speaker 1: of I think the voting. And this was after the

622
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: first round. So talk us through how rank choice voting

623
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: works place.

624
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 5: Sure, Absolutely, rank choice voting really is an effective tool

625
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 5: to give voters more power anytime there's a race with

626
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 5: more than two candidates, whenever there's two candidates, it's all

627
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 5: pretty easy, right, you pick one or the other. Somebody

628
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 5: usually wins more than fifty percent of the vote, unless

629
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 5: there's a right end or you know, something silly. But

630
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 5: whenever you have more than two candidates, you have the

631
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,239
Speaker 5: possibility of a spoiler, You have the possibility of a

632
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 5: split field, you have the possibility of a non majority winner.

633
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 5: And that is, you know, not a great thing. What

634
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,600
Speaker 5: it does is it takes choice that voters want right.

635
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 5: Voters want to have lots of candidates in a race.

636
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 5: They want to be able to choose. But when you

637
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 5: can only pick one, it makes your life as a

638
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 5: voter exceptionally complicated. Look at New York City yesterday, where

639
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 5: you had a field of eleven mayoral candidates. If you

640
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 5: want to vote for somebody who your favorite candidate might

641
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 5: be fourth or fifth in the polls, So then you

642
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 5: have to decide, well, is it okay for me to

643
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 5: vote for this person who's fourth or fifth? By doing so,

644
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 5: am I really electing the person I like the least.

645
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 5: It's an impossible situation to be in, and you run

646
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 5: the risk of somebody winning with thirty five percent of

647
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 5: the vote or even less who everyone does not want.

648
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 5: So with rank choice voting, what you get to do

649
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 5: is put your choices in order. Every race is a

650
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 5: little bit different. In New York yesterday, you were able

651
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 5: to select your top five and you're able to say, well,

652
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 5: I want this person first, this person second, this person third.

653
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 5: It's a pretty common intuitive thing for most of us.

654
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 5: We can look at a race with lots of people

655
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 5: and you know, imagine how it would play out. Who

656
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,479
Speaker 5: we like, who we don't like. And it works as

657
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 5: simple as this. If somebody wins more than fifty percent

658
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 5: in the round, they win, just like any other election.

659
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 5: But if nobody wins fifty percent in the first round,

660
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 5: the bottom candidates are eliminated. And what happens then is

661
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 5: if your candidate is still alive, your vote stays with them.

662
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 5: If your candidate is knocked out, it moves to your second,

663
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 5: third choice, and so on. The runoff process continues until

664
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 5: there is a majority winner. Really, what OURCV does is

665
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,719
Speaker 5: it creates a majority winner from a huge field and

666
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 5: empowers voters to turn choice into something positive.

667
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: Okay, so I want you to explain this rank choice

668
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: voting is supposed to And I say this because I

669
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: have really scrupulously avoided getting involved in the Democratic mayoral

670
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: primary for any number of reasons. But I'm curious ranked

671
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: choice voting it is advertised as electing the most centralized candidate.

672
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: Does that bear out from yesterday?

673
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 5: No, I don't think that's right. I don't think RCV

674
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 5: does elect the most centrist candidate. I think it elects

675
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 5: the candidate with the broadest and widest support. And sometimes

676
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 5: that might be a centrist. But sometimes what we saw

677
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 5: in New York yesterday is it's a thirty three year

678
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 5: old Democratic socialist who has majority support. I mean, OURCV

679
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 5: has been used in Virginia to elect Glenn Youngkin. It

680
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 5: has been used in Alaska to elect everyone from Mary

681
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 5: Peltola to Nick Beggish to Lisa Murkowski. What RCV does

682
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 5: is it creates a majority winner, and it encourages candidates

683
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 5: to run more unifying campaigns. I would say that instead

684
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 5: of electing a centrist, really, what RCV does is it

685
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,600
Speaker 5: elects somebody who goes out and talks to everyone. It

686
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 5: sets up different campaign incentives. If you can win a

687
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 5: race with thirty out of the vote, like you could

688
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 5: have in New York City prior to our CV, then

689
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 5: the kind of race that Andrew Cuomo ran makes a

690
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 5: lot more sense.

691
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: Right.

692
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 5: He avoided the press, he avoided the public, He didn't

693
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 5: show up at a lot of panels to talk to people,

694
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,879
Speaker 5: and he thought that his name recognition and money would

695
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,920
Speaker 5: muscle him through to thirty eight or forty percent in

696
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 5: a divided field, and then you would have had a

697
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 5: mayoral nominee that sixty percent of people voted against, but

698
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 5: you would be the choice. Nevertheless, Mom Donnie campaigned in

699
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,840
Speaker 5: a very different way right. He built bridges amongst the

700
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 5: entire left in liberal universe. He camp in with the

701
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,839
Speaker 5: other candidates. You saw candidates campaigning together. You saw Mom

702
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 5: Donnie asking his supporters to help raise money for Adrian Adams.

703
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 5: You saw the alliances and the cross endorsements. When Mom

704
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 5: Donnie was at one percent in the polls back in March,

705
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 5: the Working Families Party, instead of endorsing one candidate and

706
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 5: coorinating somebody right, they endorsed a slate of four and

707
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 5: they allowed the campaign to play out. If there had

708
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,759
Speaker 5: not been ranked choice voting, what you probably see in

709
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 5: New York City is that there would have been pressure

710
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 5: amongst the left liberal candidates to drop out of the

711
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 5: race to coalesce around one person, so that nobody spoiled

712
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 5: it or produced a winner with thirty five percent. Instead,

713
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 5: we got an actual campaign about actual issues. Nobody was

714
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,399
Speaker 5: telling anyone to drop out of the race, and when

715
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 5: the actual issues were discussed and debated, you saw the

716
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 5: candidate at one percent catch fire. And the result is,

717
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 5: you know, a fairly seismic upset.

718
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, that's a really good point, and I

719
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: don't think I put that together. So what you're saying

720
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: is that rank choice voting means that it's not the

721
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: same kind of high stakes situation. So, for example, one

722
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: of the big problems we have in Congress, among other things,

723
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: and we have a lot of problems in Congress, and

724
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: I am here to tell you about them, but one

725
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,919
Speaker 1: of the big problems we have in Congress is that

726
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 1: the name recognition does in fact muscle people through.

727
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of Tom Taylis.

728
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,479
Speaker 1: That you can sort of go for your forty one

729
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: percent or you're thirty nine percent, thirty nine and a

730
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 1: half percent, and with Democrats because they're polite and they

731
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: you know, if you're if you have seniority, you kind

732
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: of win because people you know. I mean, that's one

733
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: of the things that I've really been critical about in

734
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: for Democrats. So the thinking here is basically that because

735
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: you are ranking, you can keep a bigger field.

736
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,440
Speaker 5: You can keep a bigger field, you give voters more choice.

737
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 5: There's less pressure on candidates not to jump into a primary, right.

738
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 5: I mean, in a race like New York yesterday, people

739
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,840
Speaker 5: would have been telling a candidate like Mom Dannie to

740
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 5: wait his turn. Instead, he's able to run without any

741
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 5: fear of being a spoil, spoiler tracting from other progressives

742
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:04,800
Speaker 5: or liberals.

743
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 3: In the race.

744
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 5: There's a lot of really good uses for this, and

745
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 5: I think what you've identified in Congress is really right

746
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 5: on right. What we've seen in Congress is because so

747
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,280
Speaker 5: many districts, as we've talked about on the show before,

748
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 5: have been gerrymandered so that one side or the other

749
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 5: wins in a lopsided fashion. The only competition for these

750
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 5: seats is in partisan primaries, and so what you often

751
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:34,800
Speaker 5: get is a low turnout summer election that effectively determines

752
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,480
Speaker 5: the race for everybody, because the winner of the primary

753
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 5: goes on guaranteed to November, and that is how you

754
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 5: end up with some of the most polarizing figures in Congress.

755
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 3: Right a Marcherie Taylor Grand They.

756
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 5: Won primaries with thirty five thirty six percent of the vote,

757
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,399
Speaker 5: and then, because the district was so wired one way

758
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 5: or the other, they are effectively locked into a race.

759
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 5: And then because of the power of incumbency and name recognition,

760
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 5: they can hold on to it forever. Ranked voice voting

761
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 5: is an especially useful tool in party primaries, you know,

762
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 5: as it is in general elections, but really truly in

763
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,080
Speaker 5: party primaries where eleven or twelve people are seeking the

764
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 5: same seat and somebody can win with a tiny plurality

765
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 5: of the vote, it's better for parties and it's better

766
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 5: for voters to use our CV.

767
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 3: So where is our CV in getting adapted? Too different?

768
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: I mean, what, first of all, the pushback on it? It's interesting,

769
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: So Virginia has our CV.

770
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 5: Virginia Republicans have used our CV in their primaries. Wow,

771
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 5: that's wild, isn't it?

772
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 2: Right?

773
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,840
Speaker 1: First of all, why have Virginia Republicans used it in

774
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: their primaries? Because I don't think of Republicans as and

775
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: May also has it, and Alaska, So explain to us

776
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,760
Speaker 1: sort of how this gets adapted, and how this doesn't

777
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: get adapted, and what this looks like now, and why

778
00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 1: did Republicans pick it in Virginia.

779
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 5: Republic in Virginia picked it because they were looking at

780
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 5: a primary for governor in twenty twenty one that was

781
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 5: going to have four or five candidates in it, and

782
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 5: everybody was from a different ideological lane. Everybody was at

783
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 5: each other's throats, and they realized that OURCV would create

784
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 5: a different kind of race, that it would create a

785
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,280
Speaker 5: race in which the candidate with the broadest and deepest

786
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 5: support one and it would be more unifying.

787
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 4: You saw this in New York City yesterday.

788
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 5: As well, right that Andrew Cuomo conceded that race, you know,

789
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 5: on day one, and we will see if he runs

790
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 5: as an independent or not. But it doesn't look off

791
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 5: of his statements yesterday that he's inclined to do so.

792
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 5: So you end up without the kind of nastiness and

793
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 5: bitterness that you have in a typical intra party primary.

794
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 5: What you would have had in Virginia in twenty twenty one,

795
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 5: what you would have had in New York over the

796
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 5: last couple of months, would have been candidates at each

797
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 5: other's throats, going deeply negative, essentially the other side talking

798
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 5: points or the fault to use against them, and just

799
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 5: you know, in general bitterness and anger inside the party.

800
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 5: Oh well, that that person took a nomination for right, but.

801
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen because you want to be ranked even

802
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: if you're not the first choice.

803
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 3: Oh that's really interesting.

804
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 5: You're less likely to go nuclear on the other folks, right.

805
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 5: I mean, if New York City was using a traditional

806
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 5: old school runoff, what you would have seen is all

807
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 5: of the Liberals fighting to be the second person going

808
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 5: up against Cuomo. Instead of campaigning together and finding common

809
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 5: ground with each other and showing up after Brad Lander

810
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 5: is arrested, they would have been at each other's throats,

811
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 5: and the Left in New York City would not have

812
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 5: been unified at all heading into this campaign. Instead, it's

813
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 5: a completely different race. Virginia Republicans say the exact same thing,

814
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 5: that they were able to produce a nominee. Nobody could

815
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 5: argue it because there was much more than fifty percent,

816
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 5: and they headed into the fall and they beat Terry mccauliffe, right,

817
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 5: they pulled off an upset nobody imagine you can compare

818
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 5: that to what happened in New Jersey's governor primary a

819
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 5: couple of weeks ago, right in which you had Mickey

820
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 5: Cheryl win that race, but with about thirty three thirty

821
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:26,280
Speaker 5: four percent from a highly contested primary. Everybody went deeply

822
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 5: negative on each other for a weeks and weeks handed

823
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,840
Speaker 5: Republicans talking points for the fall. New Jersey to be

824
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 5: a pretty safe state for Democrats, but Republicans set some

825
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 5: blood in the water. There's a lot of money in there.

826
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,479
Speaker 5: Wouldn't it be better if for the Democrats if they

827
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 5: had come together around a nominee and they were using

828
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 5: these months to go after the other side rather than

829
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 5: try to heal those wounds internally.

830
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, why don't we do that?

831
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 4: Well?

832
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 5: I think we should, And I think what we're seeing

833
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 5: is more and more states and localities understand and the

834
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 5: benefits of this as more and more voters use it

835
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 5: and like it. There was a Common Cause pull back

836
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,359
Speaker 5: in twenty twenty one in New York that shows something

837
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 5: like ninety one percent of voters found it easy to

838
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 5: use and liked it. I think that voters are going

839
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 5: to say, why don't we get to use this as well?

840
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 5: And why can't we use it? In every campaign. We're

841
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 5: going to be heading towards right a twenty twenty eight

842
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 5: presidential primary season sooner than anybody realizes, right, and there

843
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 5: could be huge fields on both sides. You had twenty

844
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 5: five Democrats back in twenty twenty four, seventeen Republicans back

845
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 5: in twenty sixteen. Imagine what an open race on both

846
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 5: sides brings out. And we could again see you know,

847
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 5: non majority nominees coming out, the kinds of choices Americans

848
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 5: get end up being being weakened. And you know, I mean,

849
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 5: all you have to do is look back at twenty

850
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 5: twenty in the Democratic primary, right, all those candidates, all

851
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 5: of them fighting with each other, elbowing each other out.

852
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: Of providing for child that he is still using.

853
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 5: Right, right, when Harris goes after Biden on bussing in

854
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 5: the twenty twenty Democratic debates, that's still a moment that

855
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 5: Republicans were using against her in the twenty for election.

856
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, a very good and salient point. Right now,

857
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 1: where is rank choice voting?

858
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 5: Rank choice voting is being used right now in Maine,

859
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 5: It's being used in Alaska, it is being used in

860
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 5: a number of cities nationwide. Whether it's New York, big

861
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 5: cities in Minnesota, big cities in California, Oakland, San Francisco.

862
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 5: But it is also being really widely used across Utah.

863
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 5: So it is happening in red states, it's happening in

864
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,759
Speaker 5: blue states, it's happening in purple states. There is an

865
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 5: awful lot of momentum around this because voters recognize it

866
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,800
Speaker 5: as a tool that delivers them something they really want,

867
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 5: more choice, but also ensures that that choice doesn't become complicated,

868
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 5: and it guarantees a majority winner. So it encourages bigger, broader,

869
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 5: more issue based campaigns. And what we see is everywhere

870
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:21,319
Speaker 5: it's being used, voters like it, want to expand it,

871
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 5: and I think we're going to continue to see even

872
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 5: more of them.

873
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you, thank you, David, thank you, Molly.

874
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:32,879
Speaker 3: A moment.

875
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 2: Jesse Cannon Bally, a whistleblower, is alleging that Trump's DOJ

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00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 2: told lawyers to disobey court orders. And you'll be really

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00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,360
Speaker 2: shocked to hear this about who was leading that charge,

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00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 2: amulbo Yes, well, Bali, could you catch the listeners up

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00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 2: For those who forget this fellow's name, war per ops

880
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 2: confuse him with like a guy with a creole restaurant

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00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: in New Orleans or something.

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00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 3: Thing Bove is bad, Bov is real bad.

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Speaker 1: So, by the way, so Bob is up for a judgeship.

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00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: And that's why some of this is coming out. This

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00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: whistleblower who was fired by both for refusing to do

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00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: some of this stuff he wanted. So the guy who

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00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: was fired was a career a justice partman lawyer who

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00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: was fired fired after truthfully staying in court that the

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00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: administration had wrongfully removed Kilmar Albrego Garcia. You'll remember him

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00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 1: from earlier this season when he was deported to Seacott

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00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: and then the Trump administration said they couldn't find him,

892
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: and then they said they wouldn't bring him back, and

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00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: then they said, by the way, I just want to

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00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: point out they're spending so much money and time on

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00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:51,360
Speaker 1: one person, like even just besides the moral and ethical

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00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: implications of just deporting people because they have they look

897
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,680
Speaker 1: like a race you're mad at. Even despite the moracle

898
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:04,240
Speaker 1: and ethical issues here, it's just a stupid fucking waste

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00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 1: of time, right, I mean, this guy, it would it's

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00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 1: just I mean, it's you know, millions of dollars being

901
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: spent on this guy, and it's just insane anyway. So

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00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: Bob Trump has nominated him for a seat on the

903
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: US Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit. And now

904
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 1: we have this whistleblower who's coming out and saying that

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00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: Bob said things like we might need to consider telling

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00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,240
Speaker 1: the courts to fuck you and ignore any court order.

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00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: I mean, look, we know this was going on behind

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00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: the scenes, but it's certainly nice to have someone report it.

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00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 1: Todd Blanche, She'll remember Todd Blanche. He's the deputy Attorney

910
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,320
Speaker 1: general and he was also Donald Trump's criminal lawyer, because

911
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: Donald Trump only knows four people. The New York Times

912
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:56,439
Speaker 1: article describes falsehoods purportedly made by a disgruntled former employee

913
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: and elite to the press in a violation of ethical obligations.

914
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 1: Says Blanche, he actually wrote that on Twitter. Again. Obviously

915
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: both did this. Obviously Todd Blanche is lying. Has anyone

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00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: seen this White House? You know? If it's anything like

917
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: one point, Oh, they're going to be a bazillion memoirs

918
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: of people who tried to work in the White House

919
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: and got traumatized by Trump. I mean, I can't believe

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00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: we're still fucking covering this. That's it for this episode

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Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and

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00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make sense

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00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please

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00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

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00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening.