WEBVTT - Can the Pentagon be Ready, Lethal, and Also Green?

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<v Speaker 1>The Pentagon is among the many American institutions trying to

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<v Speaker 1>get green, but should it be? Today on the podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>we look at what the U. S. Military wants to

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<v Speaker 1>do and what it is doing in regards to climate change. Hello,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome back once again to Parts per Billion, the

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<v Speaker 1>environmental podcast from Bloomberg Law. I'm your host, David Schultz.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a term in the military world called mission creep,

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<v Speaker 1>and basically it refers to when the scope of one's

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<v Speaker 1>goals slowly creeps outward, it eventually gets way too broad

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<v Speaker 1>without anyone noticing. Is the Pentagon getting into mission creep

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<v Speaker 1>territory when it comes to climate change? Some Republicans on

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<v Speaker 1>Capitol Hill think so. Last year, twelve GOP senator sent

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<v Speaker 1>a letter to General Mark Millie, the Biden Administration's Joint

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<v Speaker 1>Chiefs Chairman, saying that the Pentagon's climate adaptation plan is

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<v Speaker 1>distracting from its mission to maintain a quote ready and

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<v Speaker 1>lethal force. Millie and the rest of the An administration

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<v Speaker 1>begged to differ. They say, not only is it not

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<v Speaker 1>a distraction, but actually working on climate issues makes the

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<v Speaker 1>military more ready and more lethal. That's what we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be talking about. Today with Bloomberg Law reporter Stephen Lee.

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<v Speaker 1>He's been doing reporting on what the Pentagon is doing

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<v Speaker 1>to reduce its own carbon footprint and also what it's

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<v Speaker 1>doing to get ready for the effects of global climate change.

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<v Speaker 1>And on that second point, I as Stephen to explain

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<v Speaker 1>to me a war game the military recently conducted called

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<v Speaker 1>a black start exercise. That is when the military basically

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<v Speaker 1>pulls the plug on the power at a military base

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<v Speaker 1>and then they try to start it back up to

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<v Speaker 1>see how resilient they are. You know, a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>military facilities draw on the same power grid that we

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<v Speaker 1>all use, so if there's a blackout, they need to

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<v Speaker 1>know that the really mission critical systems that are crucial

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<v Speaker 1>for homeland security national defense are still running on backup

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<v Speaker 1>power and also that they can come back online quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>So they're trying to find weaknesses in the system and

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<v Speaker 1>it's you know, this goes to the Pentagon's overall push

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<v Speaker 1>to install micro grids so that they're less reliant on

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<v Speaker 1>the sort of public utility network, and it's something that

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<v Speaker 1>they've been doing for a while. They've they've they've been

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<v Speaker 1>gathering information to switch to seven clean energy, which would

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<v Speaker 1>include both renewables and nuclear and they're trying to source

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<v Speaker 1>this at a reasonable price, and they've gone big on

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<v Speaker 1>solar and and what they say, really a big theme

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<v Speaker 1>of the Defense Department's overall push here is that why

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<v Speaker 1>are we doing this stuff? It's because it makes us

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<v Speaker 1>a deadlier fighting force. They consistently say that, Yeah, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a means to an end, it's not the end itself. UM,

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<v Speaker 1>tell me more about sea level rise though. That's something

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<v Speaker 1>that you wrote about too. You're talking about, uh, some

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<v Speaker 1>of these military bases that are in low lying areas. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>Then there's some talk. It sounds like it's just talk,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's some talk of moving these bases. What's going

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<v Speaker 1>on here? It is it is a reality that that

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<v Speaker 1>obviously that they would prefer not to do that. Moving

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<v Speaker 1>a base would be obviously huge thing to do. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>they'd have to get a lot of funding, they'd have

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<v Speaker 1>to get environmental permits, there would be a ton of

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<v Speaker 1>pushback from the local community that relies on that base

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<v Speaker 1>for their economies and the politicians that represent those local

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<v Speaker 1>communities exactly, so they would rather not do that, um,

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<v Speaker 1>which is why right now they're they're focusing on the

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<v Speaker 1>same kinds of resiliency steps that everyone else takes, which

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<v Speaker 1>would be building levees, hardening the infrastructure, in some cases

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<v Speaker 1>raising the buildings and roads. But as you say, they

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<v Speaker 1>are talking internally about moving bases if they had to,

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<v Speaker 1>because it is a real problem that they are seeing.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the basis that you mentioned was this Marine

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<v Speaker 1>Corps facility at Paris Island, which is a really famous

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<v Speaker 1>base where a lot of Marine Corps go to get trained.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure if you're Marine you probably will never forget

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<v Speaker 1>your time at Parris Island. But that's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>places that they're thinking about, you know, moving right. They

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<v Speaker 1>have said that two thirds of their installations across the

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<v Speaker 1>country are threatened by flooding, drought, or wildfires, and they

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<v Speaker 1>have seen the impacts of climate change with their own eyes.

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<v Speaker 1>They they they have had um, you know, major damage

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<v Speaker 1>happening at places like Camp le June in North Carolina

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<v Speaker 1>that was hit by Hurricane Florence in it cost about

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<v Speaker 1>three and a half billion dollars, and then a month

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<v Speaker 1>later Tindall Air Force Base in Florida was hit by

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<v Speaker 1>Hurricane Michael. That was about price sagon that was a

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<v Speaker 1>four and a half billion dollars. So it is happening.

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<v Speaker 1>They are seeing it right now. Um. So let's now

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<v Speaker 1>move on to what the military is doing to address

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<v Speaker 1>its own contribution to climate change. Um, you talked about

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<v Speaker 1>you know, several things. Can you highlight a few of

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<v Speaker 1>the things that the military is doing. One of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that caught my eye was it seems like they're

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<v Speaker 1>really trying to electrify all of their vehicles and move

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<v Speaker 1>towards uh, you know, electric tanks, electric armored vehicles. What's

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<v Speaker 1>the status on that. That is something that they really

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<v Speaker 1>do want to do. And again that they they say

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<v Speaker 1>that the reason they do that is because it it

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<v Speaker 1>makes them more effective at completing their mission. Right. If

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<v Speaker 1>you have an electric vehicle that is, as they say,

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<v Speaker 1>forward deployed, then you don't have to have tankers going

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<v Speaker 1>out to try to supply them. Uh. It reduces your

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<v Speaker 1>vulnerability because you know, electric vehicles have a lower or

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<v Speaker 1>a smaller heat profile and so they're harder for the

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<v Speaker 1>enemy to spot. And as everyone who's driven on the

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<v Speaker 1>road knows, electric vehicles are quieter exactly right. Right, So

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<v Speaker 1>again it's all about the mission, uh, you know, becoming

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<v Speaker 1>a more effective fighting force. But there's lots of other

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<v Speaker 1>things that the Pentagon is trying to do, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>to to to sort of green their operations. Some of

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<v Speaker 1>them are really minor, like adding uh sort of fins

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<v Speaker 1>to the aircraft to make them, you know, more aerodynamic

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<v Speaker 1>and using less fuel. I think you wrote about how

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<v Speaker 1>they they're at some basis they're just not mowing the

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<v Speaker 1>grass there to turn it into more of a carbon

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<v Speaker 1>sink and let you know, trees and forests grow. That's

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<v Speaker 1>it's as much a small thing, but yeah, that does

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<v Speaker 1>actually help reduce their their carbon footprint. Yeah, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>good example of uh, you know, an effort that they

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<v Speaker 1>are taking that is not a big ticket item, but

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<v Speaker 1>the entire Pentagon is really bought into this and they

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<v Speaker 1>are really trying just kind of across the board. And

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<v Speaker 1>then there's big ticket items too. Write like there's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of funding that is going towards R and D,

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<v Speaker 1>different kinds of batteries, um, different kinds of fuels, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and as you say, moving bases, hardening aces. Uh. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's just really there's there, it's a very broad range

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<v Speaker 1>of activities that are going on. And then there's also

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<v Speaker 1>kind of strategic exercises, right, war game planning that they're

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<v Speaker 1>doing to make sure that they are prepared for a

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<v Speaker 1>sudden typhoon that comes up in the middle of a

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<v Speaker 1>naval exercise, that kind of thing. So the Pentagon is

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<v Speaker 1>bought in, as you say, but not everyone is happy

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<v Speaker 1>about that. You reported that around a doesn't or so.

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<v Speaker 1>Republican lawmakers signed a letter saying that the Pentagon should

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<v Speaker 1>not be doing this, This is distracting from the mission

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<v Speaker 1>and a waste of money. Can you talk a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about the criticism there, um, what's the argument that

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<v Speaker 1>they're making. Well, the letter that you're referring to came

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<v Speaker 1>from twelve Republican senators last October, was led by Jim

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<v Speaker 1>in Hoff. We know where he stands on climate chang exactly, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>And Senator Roger Wicker at the time said that the

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<v Speaker 1>Pentagon's move towards climate adaptation is part of what he

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<v Speaker 1>called a woke agenda. So that is the kind of

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<v Speaker 1>messaging that you sometimes hear from Republicans. But I actually

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<v Speaker 1>think that in general, most Republicans do seem to be

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<v Speaker 1>on board with these efforts. They seem to get that

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<v Speaker 1>d D needs to respond to coastal flooding that's in

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<v Speaker 1>and dating basis. They seem to get that there does

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<v Speaker 1>need to be more R and D two, for instance,

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<v Speaker 1>helps soldiers who are suffering from extreme heat in the

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<v Speaker 1>Middle East and Asia, and they want to make sure

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<v Speaker 1>that the military is strong and capable. But as you say,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, there is this kind of messaging that the

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<v Speaker 1>military needs to focus on fighting wars, defeating the enemy.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's set aside some of this green stuff. Is it

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<v Speaker 1>possible that that messaging could take root and sort of

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<v Speaker 1>that the whole issue could become politicized and that those

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<v Speaker 1>sorts of provisions get stripped out of the budget. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that, given how politicize the issue of climate

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<v Speaker 1>change already is, I don't think we can rule it out.

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<v Speaker 1>But to this point it feels to me as though

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<v Speaker 1>the Pentagon has done a good job of framing this,

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<v Speaker 1>as you know, of of making the military case for funding,

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<v Speaker 1>and that I think is what you need to do

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<v Speaker 1>to get Republicans on board. Yeah, I mean, I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>think about this until just now, but it's worth pointing

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<v Speaker 1>out that, you know, a dozen Republican senators signed on

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<v Speaker 1>to this, but there are fifty Republican senators in Congress

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<v Speaker 1>right now. That means that a majority of the Republican

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<v Speaker 1>caucus probably saw this letter and said I don't want

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<v Speaker 1>to sign this, So that kind of speaks for itself. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>There was one piece of criticism from a Republican this

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<v Speaker 1>is in the House here in one of your stories

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<v Speaker 1>that I wanted to address because it seemed like it

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<v Speaker 1>was not just the typical sort of partisan back and forth.

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<v Speaker 1>This was from Republican Michael Waltz, who's on the Armed

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<v Speaker 1>Services Committee. He mentioned that a lot of the rare

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<v Speaker 1>earth metals that are needed for solar panels and needed

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<v Speaker 1>for batteries that are going to be potentially going into

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<v Speaker 1>these electric tanks are controlled by China, and that that

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<v Speaker 1>doing this sort of increases the military's reliance on China,

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<v Speaker 1>which could potentially be an adversary. What do you think

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<v Speaker 1>about that? Is that does he have a point there

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<v Speaker 1>or is this more sort of just sort of partisan posturing. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think he does have a point. The US does

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<v Speaker 1>not have a very mature rare earth mining industry. A

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<v Speaker 1>lot of these minerals are imported from, you know, mostly China,

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<v Speaker 1>but also other nations like Australia and Canada, Kazakhstan. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's a legitimate point. And the Biden administration gets that.

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<v Speaker 1>They are trying to kick start some semblance of a

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<v Speaker 1>domestic rare earth mining sector because they know that the

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<v Speaker 1>US is so reliant on a foreign supply chain, not

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<v Speaker 1>just for the military. So they've given grants to private companies.

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<v Speaker 1>They have made investments to try to create an end

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<v Speaker 1>to end domestic supply chain that would include not just

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<v Speaker 1>the mining but also the processing of you know, lithium, cobalt, nickel, whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>and and they're also funding research to get some of

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<v Speaker 1>these rarits from other sources, like maybe we can extract

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<v Speaker 1>it from coal mining waste, and all of this has

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<v Speaker 1>been going on actually for several administrations. But the problem

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<v Speaker 1>is that it is hard to create an entire industry

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<v Speaker 1>from scratch, especially if it has to compete with a

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<v Speaker 1>very mature industry overseas that is supplying these minerals for

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<v Speaker 1>very cheap. There there is a global market for these

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<v Speaker 1>rare where you can buy it for not that much,

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<v Speaker 1>and so how do you compete with that? And also,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, this is like stupidly obvious, but it's called

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<v Speaker 1>rare earth for a reason. You know, these aren't abundant

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<v Speaker 1>materials that are easy to mind. Um, finally, let's get

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<v Speaker 1>into the three point one billion dollars. That's how much

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<v Speaker 1>the Biden administration asked Congress to give it for you know,

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<v Speaker 1>climate adaptation and climate investments in the coming fiscal year

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<v Speaker 1>that starts October one. Is it going to get that much?

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<v Speaker 1>Is it going to get less or is Congress going

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<v Speaker 1>to give it more than an ask for here? What

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<v Speaker 1>do you think? Well, you know, whenever we're talking about appropriations,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just very hard to say. But I think there

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<v Speaker 1>is a good chance. It's kind of strange to say

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<v Speaker 1>that because we know that Congress always pushes back on

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<v Speaker 1>the president's budget, but it is the military, and we

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<v Speaker 1>we also know that the military is often an exception

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to funding. I think that in general,

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<v Speaker 1>it's fair to say that Congressional appropriators like to give

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<v Speaker 1>the Pentagon money. And I think again, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>keys for the Pentagon here will be to make the

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<v Speaker 1>case that this money is going to be used to

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<v Speaker 1>improve its ability to fight and win wars. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think that that kind of messaging could persuade some of

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<v Speaker 1>Biden's opponents that the three point one billion dollars is necessary,

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<v Speaker 1>and to this point it seems to me as though

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<v Speaker 1>they've been doing a pretty good job of that. All right, Well,

0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:36.199
<v Speaker 1>that was Stephen Lee talking about the greening of the military. Uh, Stephen,

0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.520
<v Speaker 1>thank you so much for joining us. This is great.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks David, and that's it for today's episode of Parts

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<v Speaker 1>per Billion. If you want more environmental news, check us

0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.240
<v Speaker 1>out on Twitter. We use the handle at environment I'm

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:50.960
<v Speaker 1>at David B. Schultz. That's B as in fireworks blowing

0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:54.320
<v Speaker 1>up in my neighborhood and keeping me awake at night.

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<v Speaker 1>Today's episode of Parts for Billion was produced by myself,

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.280
<v Speaker 1>David Shultz. Parts Are Billion was created by Jessica In

0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.720
<v Speaker 1>Rachel Dagle and is edited by Zach Sherwood and Chuck mccutgeon.

0:14:04.120 --> 0:14:08.200
<v Speaker 1>Our executive producer is Josh Block. Thanks everyone for listening.

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<v Speaker 1>Taxes and accounting are complicated, but finding a good tax

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<v Speaker 1>Every Thursday, Talking Tax will explain the latest issues for you,

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