1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Worst Year Ever, A production of I Heart 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:21,639 Speaker 1: Radio Together Everything, So don't don't this is the worst 3 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: year ever. But I thought the previous one and the 4 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: previous one to that at the previous one of the 5 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: previous one. Yeah, and you were wrong. How time works, 6 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: I see, we all thought that, and it was until 7 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: the new year arrived, and here we are in it, 8 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,639 Speaker 1: the current worst year ever. Guys, how's it going. I'm 9 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: just enjoying Cody's hair right now. We're doing great. It's 10 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: perfect for an audio medium. Grimly stuff going on. I mean, 11 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: as we've always said, Cody has the perfect hair for radio. 12 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: I I had a guy that was dating who once 13 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: told me I had a face for radio, well for 14 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: an excellent face. Did He was joking and he didn't. 15 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: He thought we were young. But but I want to 16 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: finish the story. I'll say that at the time went 17 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: right over my pretty little head. Uh, and I took 18 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: it as a compliment. I was like, thank you. I've 19 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: always wanted to work in radio anyway. Um, can we 20 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: all email him? Yeah? Yeah, you're sure. He's a really 21 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,319 Speaker 1: great guy. A pop punk band did write a song 22 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: about him. Um, that was mean? What about him? Yeah? Yeah. Yeah, 23 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: he got into like a fight with the lead singer 24 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: in high school and they wrote uh their one hit 25 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: wonder about him and played it all over local radio. 26 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: I hope I'm not listening. He is a wonderful person anyway. 27 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: Well I don't like him. I hate him. Yeah, no, no, 28 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: there's only one X we don't like, and this one's fine. 29 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 1: Let's talk about the show. Okay, what what? What? What 30 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: do we? What is our show? What do we do 31 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: for a living? Who are we? What is my name? 32 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 1: Why are why are we? Actually? What's question? Yeah? This 33 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: is what I described to my relatives as on demand 34 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: radio a k A podcast and there and the three 35 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 1: of you are the hosts upset podcasts. So today, uh, 36 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: we're just stalling here because the subject that we're going 37 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: to dig into is very dark. Today. We're gonna be 38 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: talking about Afghanistan, of course. Yeah yeah, like yeah, people, 39 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: I saw some comments like that. I saw some comments 40 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: after our our last last week's episode, like no talk 41 00:02:57,000 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: about Afghanistan, guys. There's a lot going on in the world. 42 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: The Caliban went from like you know, fighting in the 43 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: mountains to taking over most of the populated areas of Afghanistan. 44 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: In roughly a week, so yeah, about the time, like 45 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: news was breaking after we recorded of stuff. You have 46 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,399 Speaker 1: to give things a beat before you talk about them. Yeah. 47 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: I feel like one of the one of the problems 48 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: we run into these days, especially, is that everybody has 49 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: to have an opinion a second something happens, and then 50 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: make claims about things the second it happens. And with 51 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: that in mind, Cody, how would you have invaded Afghanistan? Uh? 52 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: Faster and bigger, bigger, much more money? Yeah, I would have. 53 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 1: I feel like twenty five years would have given it 54 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: to us, right, I would have. I would have said, like, 55 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: all right, in twenty five years, if things aren't going 56 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: our way, five more years, like layout a plan right yeah? 57 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: Aft ye big into all of this, um yeah, twenty years, 58 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: twenty years. It's interesting because all of this, uh, you know, 59 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: Biden's big, big idea would be to have everybody out 60 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: of there before the twentieth anniversary of September eleven, UM, 61 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: thinking that would be symbolic and beautiful in some way, 62 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: but instead what we're seeing is a catastrophe. Um. And 63 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:36,799 Speaker 1: the soldiers and people that have fought in this twenty 64 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: year war, a lot of them a lot of soldiers, 65 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: people who fought in this war then had children who 66 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: grew up to fight in this war, or you know, 67 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: and and instead of seeing this as a beautiful moment 68 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: of symbolism, it is there. No, there's nothing about this 69 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: has ever been beautiful. Beautiful that's the absolute wrong word. 70 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: But whatever reason Biden out of here by yeah, well 71 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: we'll look back and we'll be like we did it. 72 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: Whatever it was, we're not gonna talk about, but we 73 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 1: definitely did it. Leaving Afghanistan is the new invading Afghanistan. 74 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: Twenty years later, we left and nothing has been accomplished. 75 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: Some stuff has been accomplished, A lot of bad things 76 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: have been accomplished, depends on your definition of accomplish Um. 77 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: I have been chatting a little bit with um Uh, 78 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 1: an anarchist activist in Afghanistan and an Afghan woman. UM 79 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 1: and I've got a little bit on that. I'm still 80 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: getting her response translated, So I think we'll afghanarchist. Yeah. Um, 81 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 1: she's currently trying to get out of the country because, um, 82 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: all hope is more or less lost. As many people 83 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,279 Speaker 1: would like to leave the country now, Yeah, many people 84 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: would like to get the funk out Um, we'll talk 85 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,840 Speaker 1: about that a little bit, probably in a later episode. 86 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: I'll kind of give more of her responses because I'm 87 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: still getting them. It's a whole chain of translations that 88 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: need to happen in order to make this. But UM, 89 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: I think it might be interesting to start. I think 90 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: it might be valuable to start kind of with each 91 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: of our Like, when did you first learn that Afghanistan 92 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: was a place? I'm gonna guess it was around nine eleven. Yeah, yeah, 93 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: But I'm kind of curious as to everyone, like just 94 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: kind of what was what were you all because we 95 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: haven't talked about, like, you know, what were you doing 96 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: on nine eleven? What were you doing when we just 97 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 1: when we started now end this series of Wars. My 98 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: dad woke me up in the morning nine eleven, uh, 99 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: and I was in high school to watch the news coverage, 100 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: and we went to school and got to first period 101 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: and they sent everybody home and a bunch of my 102 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: girlfriends came over and we continue to watch the news 103 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: during the day, and UM, I felt very afraid, you know, 104 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: you know, it was bizarre. Similarly, I was I I 105 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: was in high school the h we were I guess 106 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: it was like A three or different, So that actually 107 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: makes sense that I was not woken up and told 108 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: about it. I was in class and then they're like, 109 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: you know, every class rolled in the TV uh to watch. 110 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: I'd want a class where the teacher was like, no, 111 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: we're not we're not thinking about that, We're doing school. 112 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: And that didn't go well. Um y, it's very it's 113 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: very surreal. Um And at that age, you also don't 114 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: have like a super solid grasp of the world right, 115 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: and you don't know yet to question, or at least 116 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: I didn't know to question what you're being told. I 117 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 1: think one of the things that's harder for you know, 118 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: younger folks or folks who kind of you know, maybe 119 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: we're too young to really be super cognizant at that time. 120 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: You go back at the how h sterical all of 121 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: the media was, and I think there's two things that 122 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: are necessary, which one of which is understanding that, yes, 123 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:55,559 Speaker 1: all of the adults in our world at that period 124 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: of time lost their goddamn minds entirely or nearly all. 125 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: There were people who were desperately trying to be voices 126 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: of sanity, but nobody listened to them. Um. Yeah. But 127 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: as a child, Like I think I was like thirteen 128 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: when that happened. It was perfectly reasonable to be like 129 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 1: blindly terrified because as a child, you take your cues 130 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: from the adults around you. And when those those planes 131 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: hit the towers and the Pentagon, every single adult in 132 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: my world lost their entire goddamn mind for months, Like people, 133 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: we're out of their gourds. Um, kids in my high 134 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: school and not high school and my middle school were 135 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: like panicked that al Qaeda was going to attack our 136 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: suburban middle school and stuff like, and that was Those 137 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 1: were pretty common reactions. Um, yeah, especially since I mean 138 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: we started this by you asking us when was the 139 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: first time we'd heard of Afghanistan or uh, you know, 140 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: and obviously we were kids, so that's part of it. 141 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: But in general, America is not a place that is 142 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: concerned with what is happening in other places. So I 143 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: would say that a lot of the adults in our lives. Yeah, 144 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: if people know very little about the region now they 145 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: knew virtually nothing, then yeah they they I mean it's 146 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: hard to say because they knew they thought they knew, 147 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: I mean they should less. They may know less now 148 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 1: because of how much disinformation there is but whatever, yes, yes, 149 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,719 Speaker 1: but you get my point. Yeah, um it's it's you know, 150 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: people lost their minds. And there was this like what 151 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: people have been sharing kind of some of the images 152 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 1: from popular magazines, like that famous drawing of like Osama 153 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:35,199 Speaker 1: bin Laden's cave fortress that never existed, like just just 154 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: was complete fancy, like somebody paid a graphic designer to 155 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: draw like a fucking D and D castle under a 156 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: mountain as um. And then everyone was convinced that like 157 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: bin Laden was a part I had a whole army 158 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 1: there in the like the motherfucker left almost immediately, like 159 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: and it was like the realities of the situation. Um right, 160 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: you can you can talk about how much blame gets 161 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: apportioned to the tal band for nine eleven, but at 162 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: the end of the day, a lot of them and 163 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 1: like most of the Taliban leadership were very unhappy with 164 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: bin Lawton because like they didn't want a hornet's nest 165 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: kicked up. Um. And in fact, the Taliban made an 166 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: offer in two thousand one, like hey, we'll give you 167 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: the guy, like we'll we'll fucking get him for you, 168 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: Like you don't have to you don't have to come 169 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: in here and funk up our ship. And you know 170 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: there were peace overtures, there were, and you can It's 171 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: one of those things I think, prior to what's happening now, 172 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 1: when you would try to tell people like, hey, the 173 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: Taliban tried to give him up, they were willing to 174 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: like negotiate and talk and even potentially form a coalition 175 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: government to avoid years of war, Folks would say, well, 176 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: it's the Taliban. They were clearly lying. They never would 177 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: have agreed to any arrangement, like they would have wound 178 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: up in charge anyway. And it's like, well that but 179 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: they still wound up in charge and it costs us. 180 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,599 Speaker 1: Maybe we could have tried, Yeah we could. It was 181 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,040 Speaker 1: they're not they're not giving him up, so we got 182 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: to go. But they absolutely offered to give him anyway. 183 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: I don't know, it's um, it's very I mean, like 184 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, freedom fries, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, 185 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: I think that. I think the reaction from adults kind 186 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: of helped me quickly realize how silly the whole thing was. Yeah, 187 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: like looking around like wait, what is what what did 188 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: this do to you? And like why are we even 189 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: doing this? But then twenty years passed and babies from 190 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: that period. Yeah, and like people for whom the actual 191 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: like they were, they they did a pretty good job 192 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: they being the Bush administration of convincing people in the 193 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: immediate lead up to the war that like we were 194 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: in immediate danger and like this was and it was 195 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: obviously nonsense. I'm not saying there was anything to it, 196 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: but they convinced a lot of people of this. But 197 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: most of the soldiers who have fought over there like 198 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 1: can't like many of them probably can't even remember a 199 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: time in which they legitimately believed that there was a 200 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 1: threat emanating from Afghanistan. Um. It was just like a 201 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 1: place where we sent young men to get hurt and 202 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: to hurt other people, um for unclear reasons, the vague 203 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: specter of terrorism. Yeah. And you you know, there's always 204 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: people you find a reason some of it is like 205 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: there were I know a lot of guys over there, 206 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: you know. You you you find ties with with locals, 207 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: with like Afghan commandos, with um you know, uh, activists 208 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: and the real people who are trying to like improve 209 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: their lives, and you kind of focus on that little 210 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: narrow thing. But there's never been um, there's never been 211 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: a cohesive like vision for what we should have been 212 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: doing there other than that one brief moment of panic, 213 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: and that's carried us into there for the last twenty years. 214 00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: And part of the reason why is that, like as 215 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: soon as we invaded Afghanistan, it became obvious to even 216 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: the irrationally exuberant that like, this was not going to 217 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: be a cleaner and easy process and there was probably 218 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: never going to be the kig end of pr victory 219 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: where you you know, yeah, anyone a couple of years, well, yeah, 220 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,079 Speaker 1: very immediately we were like, oh, this is a bad idea. 221 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: If the quote enemy is like this sort of amorphous 222 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: like yeah concept, then like, what's the what are the 223 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: conditions for victory? What do you win? What's the thing 224 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: that needs to happen for you to say we did it? 225 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: Because also if we went in specifically because we wanted 226 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,199 Speaker 1: to get bin Laden, like well will we will, and 227 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: then we go in, we got He's dead. He'd been 228 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: out of the country for years by the time we didn't. 229 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: He didn't die in Afghanistan, No, he did not. It's 230 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: it's all like there's so many frustrating aspects to it, 231 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: but it's one of those I guess what was getting 232 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,959 Speaker 1: at is, like, one of the things that's most frustrating 233 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: to me right now is that all of the coverage 234 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 1: of what a disaster this is is focused on either 235 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: Trump if you're a Biden supporter, or Biden if you're 236 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 1: a Trump supporter, and well it's got to be one 237 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: or the other. A little, a little, a little tricky 238 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: minx named George W. Bush has just kind of skittered 239 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 1: away from accountability like some stealing garbage in the night. 240 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: And it's very frustrating. Yeah, one of the one of 241 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: them and said that we're gonna stop, We're gonna get out, 242 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 1: and he increased our military presence there. Yeah, he had 243 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: a surge. That was a disaster. He had it because like, look, 244 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: the the bulk of the black In my opinion, if 245 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: you're if you're a portioning blame to presidents as presidents, 246 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: and I want to stay here for the purposes of Biden, 247 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: I'm talking about his blame as president as opposed to 248 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: like whatever you want to apportion to him as you know, 249 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 1: a member of the time, but as as presidents, the 250 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: blame in order of most to least goes in the 251 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 1: actual order of the presence most Bush, second, most Obama, third, 252 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: Strup fourth most Biden. Right, Like that's because and and 253 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: and really Obama does deserve a lot of focus in 254 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: blame because he did have a choice as to whether 255 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: is this going to be a funk up? The Republicans 256 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: did that, like I'm we're we're at this was a 257 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: bad idea from the beginning. Um, we never had a plan. 258 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: And I'm not going to just keep murdering people for 259 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: for nothing in the desert um and well not the desert, 260 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: but I'm not going to keep murdering people for now. 261 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: I'm not going to just like escalate these drones strikes. 262 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not going to find it was 263 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: Obama who made Bush made. Its accepting the framing of 264 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: of the situation, Like it's saying like, well, you know 265 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: it was, they're doing it wrong, but we should still 266 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: be there, we still have to be there. It's accepting 267 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: the framing. And it was also what Obama did was 268 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: found a way to make it sustainable. And I don't 269 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: mean that like a financial sense, but I mean in 270 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 1: a publicum, public opinion sense. He found a way to 271 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: keep the war going and keep the killing going without enough, 272 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: but in such a way that few enough American soldiers 273 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: died that it was never new because because we didn't 274 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: want to be or people in general, uh, you know 275 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: who would generally be upset with the war, leve Obama 276 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: and look away. That's the years of complacency. Those are 277 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,239 Speaker 1: the years where everyone's like, I'm tired of being upset. 278 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: Let's just like it's not so bad. And I tell 279 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: you Obama, Obama is a good guy. He's going to 280 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: make the right choices. UM. I would push back just 281 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: slightly on your framing of of um order of responsibility 282 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: and say that Trump and Biden are tied. In my mind, 283 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: maybe not. I just think that the way that this is, 284 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: we can will will unpack this. We're gonna have to 285 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 1: take a break through. But I do not appreciate the 286 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: way that this has rolled out, in the complete and 287 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: utter failure to ply careful our allies and the people 288 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: that we need to be acting right now, because is 289 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: he already blew through the deadline that Trump established and 290 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: has already you know, but also what are all of 291 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: these months, all of these months since that may first deadline, etcetera. 292 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: And there's plenty to talk about did you If you 293 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: listen to his speech, which I did, it was fucking nonsense. 294 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: Like one of the one of the key claims he 295 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: made is like, well, we couldn't evacuate them because they 296 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: didn't want to leave. Yet it was like Joe that 297 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: there were eighteen thousand Afghans waiting for special immigrant visas 298 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 1: denied because the visa system. And in fairness, it was 299 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: the Trump administration that fucked up the USAS system more 300 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: than it had been sucked up. But you could have 301 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: pushed that ship. You couldn't that, Like you're the president 302 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:53,120 Speaker 1: of the United States, at least, like you got two 303 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: thousand Afghans out right roughly roughly as like when since 304 00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: the start of the poll we got about two thousand 305 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 1: of our the Afghans who are working with us out 306 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: eighteen thousand of them had said prior to Biden taking office, 307 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: I need to get the funk out of here. Um, yeah, 308 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: we've known and like the whole point, like the whole 309 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 1: framing of like Biden as presidents, like we're back, We're 310 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: gonna fix all the things that we all said we're bad. 311 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: And obviously that wasn't gonna be the case. But my 312 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: God saying, well, so they don't all want to go, 313 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: I mean, Joe, we should. We should take a quick 314 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: break and then come back and talk a lot about 315 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: this next messaging because you know who's messaging on Afghanistan 316 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: is entirely consistent Lockeed Martin, Lockheed Martin primary sponsors, Lockheed 317 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: Martin and Ray, who say, Man Schmalaban. As long as 318 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: they need targeting software for drone based missiles, we don't 319 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: care who they are where. That's the Lockheed raytheon guarantee 320 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: together everything and we're back and we love, we love 321 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: to be back. Yeah. So we're talking about Biden and 322 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,680 Speaker 1: his speech and the shifting uh. And you know eighteen 323 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:28,360 Speaker 1: thousand UM Afghanistan citizens did not want to leave their country. 324 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,639 Speaker 1: And then there's also the line of what we needed 325 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: people there, otherwise it would have not instilled confidence that 326 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 1: we believed the Afghan government would succeed. So there's that, UM, 327 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: very good yes, and shifting the bucked Donald Trump, all 328 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: of it. I love. Uh. There's a Kamala Harris tweet 329 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: today like this is sort of the general framing is 330 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 1: like now now now the important like now, the mission 331 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: is to get people out now now it was part 332 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: pardon me, you just you just thought of this, and 333 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: the the other part of his speech that really upset me. 334 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: And I don't have the direct quote, what was the 335 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: framing of it. So Biden has assured assured the public 336 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: and has talked about how uh the government would last, 337 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 1: how it would at least for a while, that the 338 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: Taliban wouldn't take thing goes over immediately, and he was 339 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: obviously very very wrong. But in the speech he mentioned 340 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: how he put that on Afghanistan. They're not willing to 341 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: do it. They're not willing and ready to fight. They 342 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: don't care. That's that's particularly I want to find the 343 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: statistic I was looking at. But like, uh, there's a 344 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: lot of women. We'll talk about them, a lot of 345 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 1: I mean, the the Afghan military was on balance a 346 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: fucking disaster stir largely it's sort of the operational command level, um, 347 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 1: but a lot of Afghan security forces died fighting. As 348 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: of April, they were taking thirty to fifty sometimes more 349 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: casualties a day um. And that was without logistical support. 350 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: They lost more people in the last like year than 351 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,800 Speaker 1: the US did in the entire war. Like to say 352 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: that they were not fighting thousands of people, Like it's 353 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: it's disgusting, Like, yeah, they were fighting, at least a 354 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: lot of them were fighting. They also had no legit. 355 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: We'll talk you, we'll talk about we have created this situation. Yeah, 356 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 1: we create. So the Afghan military was built in imitation 357 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: of the U. S Military in certain ways and by that, 358 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: so the way the US military functions and what makes 359 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: it so so deadly in an operational capacity at kind 360 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 1: of like a unit level, UM, is that we have 361 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: very effective combined arms strategy. So you've got you've got 362 00:21:57,400 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: your infantry, you've got your armored units, you've got field 363 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: our hillary and you've got air support and they all 364 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,880 Speaker 1: kind of UM and drone support and they all kind 365 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: of they act to provide each other with information, um, 366 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: to provide each other with fire support. It's it's a 367 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 1: very effective way of fighting that they've developed over the 368 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: last couple of decades, and we built the Afghan military 369 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: and imitation of that. The problem with that kind of 370 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: military is that it requires an enormous logistic tail and 371 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: significant number of people for everyone fighter in the field. 372 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: Not only people to like keep the the infantry and 373 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: stuff supplied, but like you need people to maintain the drones. 374 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: You need people to fly the drones. You need people 375 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: to interpret the signal information that drones are getting. You 376 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: need people to maintain the aircraft that are providing close support. 377 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: You need people to load those craft, you need people 378 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: to pilot them. You need people to maintain the armored 379 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: vehicles and whatnot. You need all of this logistical tail um, 380 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: which we never trained or equipped. We used mercenaries PMCs 381 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: to do all that work in Afghanistan um. And we 382 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: did that because those PMCs were made your donors to 383 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 1: US politicians and very influential in the Defense Department, and 384 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: it was hugely profitable for them. It's what one of 385 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: the most disgusting things is that like Fox brought Eric 386 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: Prince Mercenary Warlord on to talk about like wi Biden 387 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: fucked up and he was like, well, people like me 388 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: weren't listened to, and the reality chunk of why the 389 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: strategy like we always basically the entire time we were 390 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, there were more PMCs in country than US 391 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: servicemen and women. And part of the reason for that 392 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: is that their deniable assets doesn't matter. How many of 393 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: those fuckers died, doesn't matter what happens to them or 394 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: what you do with them, because none of that needs 395 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: to be reported. Right Ever, you a soldier who dies, 396 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: that's a matter of public record, right you have a 397 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: right to information about that. Doesn't matter if it's some 398 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: blackwater motherfucker. And Prince was one of the was the 399 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: the number one dude who lobbied to make our two 400 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 1: two lobbied four things to work that way in both 401 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: Afghanistan and Iraq. And that's how things worked in both 402 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: Afghanistan and Iraq. And the downside of that is that 403 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: when Biden pulled out, he pulled those PMCs out, He 404 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: pulled that logistical support out. So not only did the 405 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: Afghan military lose US air support and US fighters, they 406 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: lost access to the people who made their logistical tail 407 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: possible and there was just no real chance that they 408 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: were going to continue function. Now, there were other issues. 409 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: From one thing, there was something like ten thousand generals 410 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: in the Afghan military, which number about three fifty thousand people, 411 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: which is ridiculous. And I encountered similar things in Iraq. Right, 412 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: you meet all these people who are like quote unquote generals, 413 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: and the reality is that like there's somebody's cousin, there's 414 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,239 Speaker 1: somebody's uncle. They're they're getting and their their their grifters, right, 415 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,119 Speaker 1: a huge amount. Basically everyone at the top of the 416 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,120 Speaker 1: Afghan military was a grifter. And the way it works 417 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: is like those guys, the high ranking dudes are getting 418 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 1: kickbacks from these p m c s and from from 419 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: sometimes straight from the State Department of the Defense Department, 420 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: and they're grifting money from all these you know, Oh, 421 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: Haliburton comes in to build a hospital and they pay 422 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: this this local warlorder, this general a bunch of money 423 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: and he arranges security and he also gets So the 424 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: Afghan government's says like, okay, you're in charge of ten 425 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,479 Speaker 1: thousand men, here's their payment. Here's salary for these ten 426 00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: thousand troopers. You have to hand it to them. And 427 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 1: so you decide, as this corrupt asshole, like, well, I'm 428 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: getting paid for ten thousand dudes. What if I just 429 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: have a thousand dudes and I pocket the salary for 430 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 1: And so that was and that was the same thing 431 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: happened in you know, when Mosel was taken by Isis. 432 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: It was like they're supposed to be like ten thousand 433 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: Iraqi army soldiers well equipped with US weapons in the 434 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 1: city and like isis guys defeated them. And it's because 435 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: there was actually like nobody there, because like the whole 436 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: army was existed on paper for the process of getting 437 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: a couple of people rich. Right, So there's a there's 438 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: a huge amount of blame for the people on the 439 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: top of the Afghan military. And that's important to talk 440 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: about because in part the reason why it was that 441 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: way is because we let it be that way, because 442 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: we wanted, because it was very profitable for a lot 443 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: of Americans for it to be that way. Um. And 444 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,880 Speaker 1: so that should be acknowledged and it should be in fact, 445 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 1: people should be punished for it over here. Um. But 446 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: saying they were willing to fight for it ignores again 447 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: the tens of thousands of Afghan soldiers who died fighting yea, 448 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: which is pretty fucked up. It is fucked up. It 449 00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: is just I mean, it's it's it's destroying. Uh. I 450 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: already have no legitimacy anyway, but this just further does 451 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: it for us. We yeah, we never I mean, one 452 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 1: of the things that's interesting to me, there's this this 453 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,719 Speaker 1: thing that's actually kind of admirable about the military um, 454 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: which is that if you actually read a lot of 455 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: their their documentation, it's extremely accurate and extremely clear. Mind. 456 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: This has been the case for climate change right for 457 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: like fifteen or twenty years. The Defense Department has been 458 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: article that you sent us everyone a yes, and that 459 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: was try to hide like that the Afghana stand is 460 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: like because obviously, and I'm not saying there's a lot 461 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: of blaming d O D. A lot of particularly like 462 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: all of our high ranking military leaders over there were 463 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: attempting to hide the problem, but they also were producing 464 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: a significant amount of documentation that any American could have 465 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,480 Speaker 1: access to know how they fucked up things were, which 466 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 1: is not to the Afghanistan papers. A fascinating story the 467 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: Washington Post Scott and there's a lot of mouth feasance 468 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 1: on behalf of the d O D. But this Vice article, 469 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: which was written by Matthew galt Um include like it 470 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: is just sort of it's talking about specifically, um the 471 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: uh what's the acronym here, oh cigar. Yeah. So the 472 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction, which was a government 473 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 1: agency that started keeping track of the war and its 474 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: material costs in two thousand eight UM, and so they've 475 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: been they've been, you know, primarily investigating the hundred and 476 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: forty four billion dollars the US put aside for reconstruction. 477 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 1: So this was just covering kind of US efforts to 478 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: build a functional state an economy in Afghanistan, not like 479 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: after it, not fighting and stuff, like specifically our attempts 480 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: to actually make Afghanistan a functioning country. And like twelve 481 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: years of these documents, not a single piece of good news, 482 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: like just an unmitigated disaster. One of the stories embarrassing, 483 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: like shameful. I'm just gonna quote directly from about the goats. Yeah, 484 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 1: this is Matthew Galt Riding. Whenever I think about the U. 485 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,119 Speaker 1: S government's failure in Afghanistan, I remember the goats. In 486 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: two thousand and thirteen, a government project meant to kick 487 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,200 Speaker 1: start Afghanistan's economy granted Colorado State University one point five 488 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: million dollars to start a goat farm in Heroit Province, Afghanistan. 489 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: It bought five Kashmir producing Italian goats and transported them 490 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: to Afghanistan for the purposes of breeding them in large 491 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: numbers and turning Afghanistan into a Kashmir producing hotspot. But 492 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: CSU ran into problems immediately. It had three hundred goats, 493 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: only nine of them the expensive Kashmir goats from Italy. 494 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: The college was bad at farming, and the expensive Italian 495 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: goats caught a disease that killed most of them. Worst, 496 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: they were spending fifty dollar there's a year to feed 497 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: the rest, an incredible amount of cash to spend on 498 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: an animal that will lead almost anything. When CSU tried 499 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: to turn the farm over to locals and told them 500 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: that what they were spending to feed the goats, the 501 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: Afghans called the farm at poisoned chalice. Keep in mind 502 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: that Afghan farms have been raising goats for generations and 503 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: already had Kashmir producing animals. According to a goat expert 504 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: who testified the fallout, the college had no idea what 505 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: they were doing, and the CSU staff determined what the 506 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: project should cost despite no one at CSU having any 507 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: experience with Kashmir. I feel like I know thirty people 508 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: who could have done this project on their own for 509 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: fifty grand total, because again, not hard to keep goats alive. 510 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: The goats white savior bullshit of like the school project 511 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: of let's go there. Afghans just don't know how to 512 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: raise goats. About the goats. They've they've been raising goats 513 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: longer than you have about raising the sentence raising goats 514 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: for generations and already had Kashmir producing and what did 515 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: you keep doing? And again it's yeah, it's and everything 516 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: every single attempt to like build up the economy, to 517 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,320 Speaker 1: build up like so yeah, there was a this is 518 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 1: also from a Cigar report and this came out in 519 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen, and it was about the Guardes Hospital, 520 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: which was a hospital that the United States built in 521 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: the Pactia Province in eastern Afghanistan UM as part of 522 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: our you know, efforts to to nation build UM. It 523 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: was built to treat civilians. Construction began in two thousand 524 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: eight as part of a three year contract with the 525 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: US Agency for International Development UM, and it was supposed 526 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: to be handed over to the Afghan Ministry of Health 527 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: in two thousand eleven. UH. That never happened. For one thing, 528 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: the completion date kept being pushed back, first to two 529 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 1: thousand thirteen UM as a result of issues with an 530 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,959 Speaker 1: Afghan building contractor. In October of two thousand thirteen, when 531 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: it was supposed to be done. Cigar found that they 532 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 1: had overpaid the contractor by half a million dollars for 533 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: diesel fuel alone UM and so this cause like a 534 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: bunch of issues. By this summer of two thousand fourteen, 535 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: the hospital still was not completed. It was supposed to 536 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: be done in two thousand eleven. UM took another year 537 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: and a half for the hospital to be completed. UM. 538 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: The almost done hospital costs the US fourteen point six 539 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: million dollars. And then an inspection immediately after construction by 540 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:27,440 Speaker 1: Cigar auditors found forty two construction deficiencies quote despite millions 541 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: of dollars. This is from an mp A article. Despite 542 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: millions of dollars and years of work, parts of the 543 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: roof were leaking or contained standing water doors were missing handles. 544 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 1: One of the water towers was leaking. The hospital had 545 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: not been reinforced to withstand earthquakes. The hospital was built 546 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: on the active Chairman fault line. Fire alarms were missing 547 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 1: in some parts of the hospital, and if there was 548 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,960 Speaker 1: a fire, there was no emergency lighting. Some exit signs 549 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: pointed in the wrong direction, Like that is that a 550 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:55,959 Speaker 1: tad for like a hospital? Yeah, it's not great. Um, 551 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,240 Speaker 1: it's just a tiny example that the hospital eventually. Yeah, 552 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: it's it's full of hospitals that like either never got 553 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: built or were never built. Practically, there's a million of 554 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: these stories from this is one more from the Vice article. 555 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,720 Speaker 1: There was Camp Leatherneck, a US base and the Helmet Province. 556 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: It cost thirty six million to construct the sixty four 557 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: thousand square foot command center. It came with an air 558 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: conditioning system, expensive electronics, an office furniture. The US never 559 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: used it and couldn't decide if it should demolish, demolish 560 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: the facility or turn it over to the Afghans. The 561 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: Pentagon eventually turned it over to the Afghan National Army, 562 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: leaving behind four d and twenty thousand water bottles, but 563 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 1: setting fire to ten thousand m r s and destroying 564 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: undred computers. The Pentagon televisions just destroyed all the computers, 565 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: like like the invade your unbelievable computers with you and 566 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: just like but just like the debate of like they 567 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: were sure if they should demolish it or turn it 568 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: like after why are you there? What are you doing there? 569 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,400 Speaker 1: Thirty six million dollars to demolish it? Unbelievable anyway, I 570 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: just really wanted to share that one as well. Oh 571 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: there's the other one about the facilities that they made 572 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: that they put something that they like sealed it with 573 00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 1: and they've never changed it. They said that the soldiers 574 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: staying there are fitting fast, they could get out quickly. Yeah, 575 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: it's it's not funny. So one of the things that 576 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: is important to understand is the we talk about how 577 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: the military industrial complex is a big rift, how like 578 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 1: all these wars are grifts. I don't think people understand 579 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: the degree how shameless. There's this idea that the grifts 580 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 1: are like you know, congressmen and defense contractors working out 581 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: in exchange for votes. You know, we'll make sure there's jobs, 582 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,720 Speaker 1: will keep producing these tanks in your area, or like 583 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: you know this idea that like, yeah, you're hiring mercenaries 584 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: and like so these companies profit there, or you're you're 585 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 1: taking the oil or something like the and and you know, 586 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,479 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff happens. But when I'm talking about 587 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 1: the degree to which the War on Terror was a 588 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: shameless griff, there's the best story that that that kind 589 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: of illustrates that came from Iraq in two thousand seven, 590 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: which is The largest transfer of cash in the history 591 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 1: of the Federal Reserve was done in Iraq, and it 592 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: was done after the invasion, when the United States flew 593 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 1: twelve billion dollars in shrink wrapped hundred dollar bills into 594 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: the country and then lost it just gone just like 595 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,320 Speaker 1: like like like what was the numbering twelve billion dollars 596 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: the largest transfer of cash and Federal Reserve history. It 597 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:54,840 Speaker 1: was some of it was supposed to be spent. It 598 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,279 Speaker 1: was spent in a variety of ways, but like we 599 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 1: didn't account for most of it, like we really don't 600 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,280 Speaker 1: know where a big some of it was just taken 601 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: like palettes just taken from airports and ship Some of 602 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: it was spent, you know, on bribes and spent to 603 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: like pay for stuff. But like most of the funds, 604 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: like a significant majority were lost to corruption and waste. 605 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,839 Speaker 1: Thousands of people who did not exist were receiving pay 606 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: and it was like the money was just taken and 607 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,520 Speaker 1: handed to Iraqi elites or handed to like god knows who, 608 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,399 Speaker 1: probably a bunch of fucking foreigners in the country too, 609 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: and Americans. There was like there was a single five 610 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,879 Speaker 1: million dollar expenditure and security funding the explanation for which 611 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: was listed on a memo as tb D, which means 612 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: to be determined five million dollars that were paid out 613 00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 1: for reasons to be figured out, like figured out we 614 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 1: need a billion dollars for um. This is f And 615 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,839 Speaker 1: like when I say, like these wars are grifts, I'm 616 00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: not even just talking about like the high level Oh 617 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: You've got these kind of congressmen talking with Lockheed Martin 618 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: executives about like how to deal with a pro creations contracts. 619 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,800 Speaker 1: I'm saying, we flew twelve billion dollars in cash and 620 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: and no one knows where it went. It just it 621 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: just it just gone. It's money, money pits, money and 622 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:18,440 Speaker 1: death pits, money and death pits. Yeah, just shameless incompetent grifts. 623 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,400 Speaker 1: And like I know, there's so much that's fucking infuriating. 624 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: One of the things that's frustrating is we started talking 625 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: about this earlier, like the extent to which Afghanistan was 626 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: like the big story in America for a few months 627 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: after the invasion, and then we just because it became 628 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,000 Speaker 1: clear that like nothing good was going to come out 629 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 1: of US factory in that country be pivoted to Iraq. 630 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 1: You know, well, right, and it was a sort of 631 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 1: acceptance like that's you know, it's the forever where, right, 632 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: it's this just the thing, it's the thing that we do. 633 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: It quickly turned into like, yeah, we're just there now 634 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 1: and that's just how it is. And again, nobody wanted 635 00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 1: to pay attention to it. Nobody wanted to think about 636 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: the pleasant thing or to pay attention to the fact 637 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: that we're yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's I mean, the 638 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 1: thing that's fucked up about what you just said, Katie 639 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 1: is that, Um, I don't I don't know that this 640 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: is going to matter in terms of next year's election 641 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,839 Speaker 1: or the next presidential election. Like obviously the Republicans are 642 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 1: trying to make this like a thing to hit Biden with, 643 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: and you know plenty to criticize Biden on. But I 644 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:34,320 Speaker 1: don't know that anyone's going to give a ship. I 645 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,320 Speaker 1: don't know that there is any degree I don't know 646 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,600 Speaker 1: that there is any degree of botching ship in Afghanistan 647 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: that could have actually hurt a U. S. President because 648 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 1: we just don't give a shit. Um, voters don't like, 649 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 1: we'll see maybe this has been a big enough funk 650 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: up that it will have an impact. But like, um, 651 00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 1: I re elected, Bush got re elected, Obama got re 652 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: elected after the surge, which was an mitigated disaster in 653 00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,759 Speaker 1: Afghanistan because we just nobody was really paying attention. But yeah, 654 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 1: I don't think that this. I think that everybody will 655 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: forget about this in a month, um and move on 656 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:19,320 Speaker 1: to the next thing or not forget about it. But 657 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,160 Speaker 1: they'll they'll bring it, they'll bring it up. It's just 658 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: one wonders if. Yeah, well, the truth is is that 659 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 1: this was going to happen. I mean not not the 660 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: execution of how this happened didn't have to be this way. 661 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:38,640 Speaker 1: But we knew, they've known, despite what Biden said, We've 662 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: always known what was going to happen. When the US, well, 663 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: they're gonna they're gonna turn They're gonna use it like 664 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 1: uh and you know, who knows next year what what 665 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: that worst year ever will bring or for the Giant 666 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 1: Spiders Cody, Yeah, a couple of worst year evers from now. Um, 667 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: but uh, you know they're already they're gonna be using it, 668 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,680 Speaker 1: not as like we should get out or we didn't 669 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: get out well or this or this, it's the now. 670 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 1: It's going to be the refugee thing right, like to 671 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:12,839 Speaker 1: bring people in that will make us less white. Yeah, 672 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: it's um. I'm actually I wanted to bring up real 673 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: quick just like yeah, yeah, that's what I wanted to 674 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: bring up. Yeah, baby, And then thank you for bring 675 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:31,879 Speaker 1: up the ads. And then once we bring up the ads, 676 00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: you can bring up whatever other thing you wanted to 677 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: bring up. Be right back together everything. So we're back. 678 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: Did it happen? We can? We came back. Oh yeah, 679 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: we we built. We built back there. We are now 680 00:39:55,480 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: supported by uh Haliburton, um and they're fine, fine cashmere. 681 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: Let me let me, let me, let me read this 682 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:10,279 Speaker 1: this new ad for us. Hey, Cody, Katie, have you 683 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: guys heard of the island nation of Haiti? You know 684 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 1: what would go really well with an island nation of Haiti? 685 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: A bunch of miniature American flags in a twenty year 686 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: occupation that funnels tens of billions of dollars into an 687 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: oil contractor and its subsidiaries. I wasn't that wasn't what 688 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: I was gonna say, but I'll take your word for it. 689 00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,920 Speaker 1: The official stance of worst year ever is let's get Haiti. 690 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: Let's get on in there, just get on get on, 691 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,000 Speaker 1: get on in there, use promo code. Where else can 692 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: we go? Yeah? What else are we gonna do? Where else? 693 00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,440 Speaker 1: We're gonna put our stuff you want to bring up. Oh, 694 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,320 Speaker 1: it's not even It's just gonna keep happening. There's a 695 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: all the things, um, you know, like the the Tucker 696 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,400 Speaker 1: Carlton of it, all the right wing sort of reaction 697 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: to this and sort of using it for their weird 698 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,919 Speaker 1: I mean, the the what you expect. Um, there's there's 699 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: a tendency to sometimes on some people, uh, to be 700 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,600 Speaker 1: like at least Tucker's anti imperialist. And I just want 701 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:22,239 Speaker 1: people to realize and understand and and keep understanding he's not. 702 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: He would be imperious. He doesn't think these places deserve 703 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: our help. He thinks they're to quote Tucker Carlson, semi illiterate, 704 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 1: primitive monkeys. That's a direct quote from him. Um, he 705 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: doesn't think, Uh, he wants to get out because it's 706 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,560 Speaker 1: a waste of American soldiers. Um. If there was another 707 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:48,320 Speaker 1: nation that was worthy, he would be all for invading 708 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:53,320 Speaker 1: that country. Um. And he's just turn it's it's just frustrating. 709 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:54,839 Speaker 1: We don't need to talk about him. We've talked about 710 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,839 Speaker 1: him before on the show. We all know, Um, it's 711 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:03,399 Speaker 1: just this uh using vague like I'm I'm anti war. 712 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: No he's not. He's anti certain wars yeah. Um, he's 713 00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: anti wars that don't make him feel good. Yeah. Um. 714 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 1: And then now it's just gonna be like the whole 715 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 1: like a now of even like Charlie Kirks like they 716 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,680 Speaker 1: actually they did this, they did this specifically so they 717 00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: can bring a bunch of refugees in and change our demographic. 718 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,239 Speaker 1: Steven Miller is saying that ship too. Yeah, it's like, yeah, 719 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:32,320 Speaker 1: that's why. That's why apparently Trump scrubbed he shared it. Yeah, he. 720 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: I want to be clear, I think we're all the 721 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: same page about this. I also think we should have 722 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: gotten the funk out of Afghanistan. Oh yeah, And I 723 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,120 Speaker 1: am not famously Cody. You and I have had some 724 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: debates because I'm not actually categorically against like intervention necessarily 725 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 1: because I've been to some places where the people there 726 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,759 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, this is why my family is alive. Um, 727 00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: it's clear that intervention in Afghanistan was you know, there 728 00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:03,239 Speaker 1: are things that are worse because a lot of things 729 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:04,960 Speaker 1: that are worse because the Taliban are in charge. But 730 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 1: you also have to take into account we were bombing 731 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,640 Speaker 1: shiploads of people. Civilian casualties continue to raise throughout the war, 732 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 1: raised significantly during he was I mean we we were. 733 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:16,960 Speaker 1: So it's not a zero sum game. It's not just 734 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,640 Speaker 1: because the Taliban artcleing door to door, murdering female journalists, murdering, 735 00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:24,840 Speaker 1: murdering like people who were political leaders, women's rights activists, 736 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,880 Speaker 1: like horrible shit is happening. Horrible ship was also happening before, 737 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,440 Speaker 1: and I just I think we had to get the 738 00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:35,839 Speaker 1: funk out. I'm very supportive of not but also there 739 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 1: are I think the best count I've heard at least 740 00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:43,879 Speaker 1: about ninety thousand Afghans who had worked with the US 741 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: government who had worked with journalists, who were you know, 742 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,320 Speaker 1: women's rights activists, people who needed to be evacuated, and 743 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:56,200 Speaker 1: that should have been the number one priority ONCET And 744 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: now that would have been part of this plan, a 745 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: part of this tension, a part of this not meeting 746 00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,920 Speaker 1: the fucking deadline. Sorry, go ahead, Robert, Well there's a thing. Yeah, 747 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 1: they brought this up to like the Biden and Harris 748 00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: administration have brought this up like both they've brought like 749 00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 1: this general idea too in regards to like South American countries, 750 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 1: UM and and like the global South, and like how 751 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:24,480 Speaker 1: we we contribute to these issues that bring people here, 752 00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: we cause these problems and that like what do you 753 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 1: think is happening in Afghanistan? And then they know there's 754 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,640 Speaker 1: information that just leaked out that like they one of 755 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 1: the reasons why they did not start the evacuation earlier 756 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:42,360 Speaker 1: a goot more people out us because they were worried 757 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 1: about being hit with that during the mid terms. UM 758 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: with like bringing and ship It's great because there there 759 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: there was absolutely away Joe Biden could have taken a principled, 760 00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,720 Speaker 1: even courageous moral stance saying, hey, this was a mistake 761 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: a lot of American elected leaders made. I have my 762 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,160 Speaker 1: own part in that. I am not going to continue 763 00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: that mistake. I am not going to pass this on 764 00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: to a fitth American president. We are getting out, and 765 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: we are going to devote vote enormous resources to making 766 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,200 Speaker 1: sure that all of the tens of thousands of people 767 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,720 Speaker 1: who worked with us get out safely because we can't 768 00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:20,040 Speaker 1: because we fucked up, and they shouldn't pay for that 769 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: funk up, and that would have been a principal moral 770 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:26,960 Speaker 1: stance that I think reasonable people would have all been like, 771 00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 1: all right, well, that's the best you can do, not 772 00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,279 Speaker 1: like like the war was a disaster long before you 773 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,000 Speaker 1: were president. At least we got these people out whatever. Um, 774 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:39,120 Speaker 1: that's that would have been I think the way to 775 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,480 Speaker 1: handle it. Like, you know, I'm not saying we should 776 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,600 Speaker 1: have stayed in Afghanistan for another four years. I think 777 00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:47,839 Speaker 1: getting out was the right thing to do. But there 778 00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:51,000 Speaker 1: was a way to do that ethically, um, and try 779 00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:54,480 Speaker 1: to end on a note that was less craven, selfish, 780 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: and evil than the rest of the war had been 781 00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: flat out embarrassing. Yeah, we could have as opposed, we 782 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: could have ended a war based primarily upon funneling cash 783 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,560 Speaker 1: to defense contractors um and burnishing political reputation selfishly. We 784 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,840 Speaker 1: could have ended this incredibly selfish, criminal war with a 785 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,760 Speaker 1: gesture of like, the best we can do is rescue 786 00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,719 Speaker 1: these people, um, And and at least we will end 787 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: this on a note of not enriching ourselves at their expense. 788 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 1: And yet, and yet that's not talking about how things 789 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: could have worked. People people have pointed this out a lot, 790 00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:36,200 Speaker 1: but I think I just will for us as well. 791 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: Just how wrong Biden has been at every juncture. It's 792 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,319 Speaker 1: amazing over the past twenty years, you know, I mean 793 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: getting involved with this in the first place, trying to 794 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,880 Speaker 1: like have us not he didn't want to go in 795 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 1: and kill some of the lawden, you know, thete the 796 00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:01,440 Speaker 1: assurances that you know, the gut will hold and that 797 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,280 Speaker 1: the Taliban won't advance. Uh, this whole process of extricating 798 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,920 Speaker 1: ourselves in the decision to not remove um all all 799 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: of these people, not just the people that helped us, 800 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,880 Speaker 1: but their families. Yeah, it's yeah, it's just craven and 801 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,480 Speaker 1: shameful and and it's it's you know, it's craven and 802 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,880 Speaker 1: shameful all the way down every single US leader who 803 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:27,080 Speaker 1: has had really and I include all of the military 804 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:35,400 Speaker 1: brass in this too. Um just uh a pyramid of 805 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: shit um from fucking documented pyramid of ship and like 806 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 1: no documented by the shitters. And they were pooping they 807 00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:50,640 Speaker 1: wrote down who they were pooping on and how this 808 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,719 Speaker 1: and also writing it like in the margins, like and 809 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,400 Speaker 1: we shouldn't be doing this, like right now, this is 810 00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: right on these people. Yeah, like just every step of 811 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 1: the way, knowing that it's not working, knowing that it's 812 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,239 Speaker 1: a failure, um, but presenting it as though it's not 813 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: like we're making progress here, we're doing this, we're staying 814 00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,880 Speaker 1: the course, all that kind of stuff. But you yeah, no, 815 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:19,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. It's so fucking bad and it's you know, 816 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,279 Speaker 1: there's there's no way people will correctly point out the 817 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: like for one thing we have not We're not gonna 818 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,960 Speaker 1: spend nearly enough time here just talking about the suffering 819 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,080 Speaker 1: of regular Afghan people, not just now but through the 820 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,520 Speaker 1: entire war. This is such a big subject. The scale 821 00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:36,440 Speaker 1: of the funk up is so that there's there's no 822 00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 1: covering this in an hour, you know. Um, but it's 823 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:46,479 Speaker 1: it's just, man, it's so fucking bleak. Um. I wish 824 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:53,600 Speaker 1: we didn't do terrible things, uh, incompetently, we could do 825 00:48:53,680 --> 00:49:02,160 Speaker 1: good things instead. Yeah, or stay the course, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, 826 00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:08,439 Speaker 1: it's incredibly depressing. We've just said that over and over again. Um. Yeah, 827 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,440 Speaker 1: I mean well, I mean I think we'll probably continue 828 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 1: to talk about this and talk to people. I would 829 00:49:13,640 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: love to bring one of your contacts in and Robert, 830 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm very grateful that we host the show with you 831 00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 1: because you have much more expertise in this area than 832 00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:25,040 Speaker 1: most people out here commenting on it. I'm not particularly 833 00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,600 Speaker 1: knowledgeable of that afghanist. I always wanted to get over there, 834 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 1: I never managed, you know, ironically, right now is probably 835 00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,360 Speaker 1: about the safest time in our lives to be a 836 00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,760 Speaker 1: foreign journalist in Afghanistan. Um, Like, You've got these people 837 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:40,480 Speaker 1: you know from like seeing and stuff who are over 838 00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 1: there like filming, and people are talking about like how dangerous. 839 00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:46,360 Speaker 1: It's really not right now because the Taliban number one 840 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:48,799 Speaker 1: is in control and number two don't want to kill 841 00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:53,400 Speaker 1: foreign journalists right there, big press thing like those people 842 00:49:53,480 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: are about inclusivity and stuff. This is their chance to, um, 843 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,799 Speaker 1: you know, not alarm the world anymore. And I hope 844 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,000 Speaker 1: to be legitimized, which they have a chance of doing, 845 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,239 Speaker 1: especially with like China and Russia. I would say, but 846 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,319 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm sure it'll 847 00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,480 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of resources in Afghanistan to 848 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:17,800 Speaker 1: sell that have been like Erik Prince was trying to 849 00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,799 Speaker 1: get like a massive rare earth mineral operation going in there, 850 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,040 Speaker 1: and like no point was ship stable enough under the 851 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 1: US occupation to do it. But the Taliban probably can 852 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:32,400 Speaker 1: guarantee enough stability to extract ship. I'm sure um, or 853 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: at least there's a decent chance UM, which isn't a 854 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,359 Speaker 1: good thing. It's just a thing that will probably happen. Um. 855 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,120 Speaker 1: It's UM. I don't know. You know, there's a couple 856 00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,000 Speaker 1: of things that keep running through my head thinking about this. 857 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,960 Speaker 1: One of them is my favorite work of foreign journalism 858 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,799 Speaker 1: about the war in Afghanistan, which is Sebastian Younger's book 859 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,600 Speaker 1: War Um, and he wrote it. During there was a 860 00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:59,560 Speaker 1: single US Army platoon that was embedded in the Koranal Valley, 861 00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: which is the was was the furthest I think north point. 862 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,359 Speaker 1: It was the furthest outpoint that the US had any 863 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:09,360 Speaker 1: combat outposts in Afghanistan. And we picked that suppose that 864 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,719 Speaker 1: specific outpost because it was like a hundred feet further 865 00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,040 Speaker 1: than the British ever got. Like that was literally like 866 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,640 Speaker 1: why we put those guys there? They were there for 867 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,200 Speaker 1: a year. And in the year those thirty guys were 868 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,600 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, that unit of again thirty dudes was involved 869 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,359 Speaker 1: in about a quarter of all US firefights in Afghanistan. 870 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,800 Speaker 1: Like they a tremendous amount of combat and Younger was 871 00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: there for about six months of the year they were there, 872 00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:35,200 Speaker 1: and he was there with um Tim Headrington, his photojournalist friend, 873 00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:38,279 Speaker 1: and they talked to those guys during you know, the 874 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 1: period of combat, and stayed with them for years afterwards. 875 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,520 Speaker 1: And Younger wrote this book War that's a very good 876 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,160 Speaker 1: meditation on what combat does to people. Um. And there's 877 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:50,960 Speaker 1: a line in there about the javelin missile, which is 878 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,160 Speaker 1: a very advanced kind of man portable missile that we 879 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,319 Speaker 1: we issue soldiers for blowing ship up, you know, when 880 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,560 Speaker 1: they're out in the field. Um. And the line is 881 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:05,080 Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing here, a jacqueline missile costs eighty thousand dollars. 882 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,399 Speaker 1: The fact that it is fired by a man who 883 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,399 Speaker 1: doesn't make that in a year at a man who 884 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,960 Speaker 1: won't make that in a lifetime, is so ridiculous it 885 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,800 Speaker 1: almost makes the war seemed winnable. Um. If you're wondering, 886 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,839 Speaker 1: like where the money went, it's ship like that. Um. 887 00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:22,160 Speaker 1: It's eighty thousand dollar missiles fired by nineteen year olds 888 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:25,600 Speaker 1: who legally cannot buy a beer in their home country, UM, 889 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:31,480 Speaker 1: who were not born who when this started, well, who 890 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:38,760 Speaker 1: were babies, tiny, tiny little babies, So I've been interviewing 891 00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: and again I don't have the transcripts yet of an 892 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:46,080 Speaker 1: interviewing this this anarchist activist who's located in Afghanistan. UM 893 00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,920 Speaker 1: and I don't have all of their answers translated, but 894 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,759 Speaker 1: the person because I had to interview them through someone 895 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,800 Speaker 1: else who was an Iranian UM anarchist activist, and I 896 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,240 Speaker 1: asked them. My question was I'm curious, as an anarchist, 897 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,239 Speaker 1: how do they feel out the difficulty of opposing an 898 00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:04,320 Speaker 1: authoritarian religious movement when the only counter to that movement 899 00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,399 Speaker 1: as an imperialist military How did they navigate being stuck 900 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:12,200 Speaker 1: in the middle of that situation? Um and the I 901 00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,879 Speaker 1: have not gotten their response yet, but my source, who's 902 00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:18,000 Speaker 1: an Iranian activist responded, I think the answers of the 903 00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,040 Speaker 1: Iranian and Afghan people are the same. The situation did 904 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,120 Speaker 1: not come about because of the vacuum DU was created 905 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,040 Speaker 1: by leaving. The US was always present in Afghanistan. When 906 00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,920 Speaker 1: the Taliban took provinces, counties, cities and committed all the 907 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:32,279 Speaker 1: atrocities we witnessed, they just did nothing. Even worse, they 908 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,640 Speaker 1: filled their pockets in the pockets of the Afghan regime 909 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,280 Speaker 1: and private military corporations, plus all the atrocities they committed 910 00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,640 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, but nothing was given to the people of Afghanistan. 911 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,759 Speaker 1: Even before the Taliban, our comrade wanted to immigrate because 912 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 1: of poverty and the lack of jobs that played Afghanistan. 913 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,160 Speaker 1: The counterinsurgency tactics worked really well. Because of the poverty 914 00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,080 Speaker 1: and division between everyone. People became so subservient that they 915 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,120 Speaker 1: didn't have a chance to wake up from their reverie 916 00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,040 Speaker 1: and stage and uprising. Also, the people were led to 917 00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:01,880 Speaker 1: at every stage of this pretense war. Who was supposed 918 00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,040 Speaker 1: to be safe until the Americans left, But even that 919 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,479 Speaker 1: turned out to be a lie. It's not that hard 920 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 1: to hate both liars. Yeah, um, yeah, yeah, good ship 921 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,960 Speaker 1: is that one thing I had seemed like, yeah, isn't 922 00:54:20,000 --> 00:54:22,160 Speaker 1: directly related to what you were just saying, but I 923 00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:26,400 Speaker 1: remembered it. Um also just part of this framing of 924 00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,319 Speaker 1: how it could happen so fast as well, because they 925 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:30,920 Speaker 1: knew this was happening. A lot of Taliban we're making 926 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:35,839 Speaker 1: deals with different you know, community members or yeah, people 927 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:38,440 Speaker 1: that were preparing, you know, and ready to say like yeah, 928 00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:42,279 Speaker 1: well we're just there's no point in continuing to die 929 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,120 Speaker 1: here and they you know, they they started in these 930 00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,760 Speaker 1: um in these the Taliban's kind of started their takeover 931 00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,480 Speaker 1: in these kind of rural outposts because the the Afghan 932 00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:54,719 Speaker 1: army had kind of continued a policy established by the 933 00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,320 Speaker 1: U S where you had these kind of far flung 934 00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,239 Speaker 1: forward operating bases UM in order to kind of like 935 00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,480 Speaker 1: lockdown specific regions to stop the Taliban from moving freely 936 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:07,160 Speaker 1: through them. And we can debate whether or not that 937 00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:10,200 Speaker 1: was ever a good strategy, but it's only a maintainable 938 00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,680 Speaker 1: strategy when you have air support right right for supplying 939 00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,800 Speaker 1: your forces and for carrying out strikes in order to 940 00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:21,600 Speaker 1: fend off attacks. Um. And because the Afghan military's ability 941 00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:24,320 Speaker 1: to do that was completely degraded when we pulled the 942 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,840 Speaker 1: contractors out, um, these forces had no support and no resupply. 943 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:32,320 Speaker 1: In addition to that, the because of all of the 944 00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:35,359 Speaker 1: grift and corruption of the Afghan government, they weren't getting paid. 945 00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:38,359 Speaker 1: So part of why all a huge numbers of these 946 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,799 Speaker 1: guys just surrendered without a fight is the Taliban said, 947 00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:43,680 Speaker 1: and the Taliban was pretty honest about this. Hey, if 948 00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:45,960 Speaker 1: you guys just put down your guns and leave, we'll 949 00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,600 Speaker 1: let you go home. We'll even give you some pocket 950 00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,160 Speaker 1: money to buy food and stuff, and a lot of 951 00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: like fucking Afghan soldiers are like, well, okay, Like it's 952 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,759 Speaker 1: either that or die without bullets for nothing. You've talked 953 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:01,120 Speaker 1: about this in other contexts to where it's like, yeah, 954 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:04,719 Speaker 1: it's all bad, but and you're going to have people 955 00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:09,319 Speaker 1: who are going to quote unquote support people who keep 956 00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,919 Speaker 1: them alive and give the money. Right, I guess I'll 957 00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:14,680 Speaker 1: take the option that probably means I go home to 958 00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:17,520 Speaker 1: my family rather than definitely dying for a bunch of 959 00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,600 Speaker 1: drifters who will absolutely flee the country ahead of me. 960 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:26,360 Speaker 1: Um m hm. To give a brief shout out to 961 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:29,880 Speaker 1: everybody uh in the right wing sphere using the Taliban 962 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:36,600 Speaker 1: to dunk on people with pronouns and Facebook, it's amazing. 963 00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,800 Speaker 1: It's amazing. If only we had been more like the Taliban, 964 00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:47,719 Speaker 1: we could have won. Unbelievable. And it's part of what's 965 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:51,120 Speaker 1: so funny about that is that the only successful use 966 00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:57,520 Speaker 1: of the US military to support um A, a foreign 967 00:56:58,160 --> 00:57:02,520 Speaker 1: like military force in a counterinsurgency campaign of any of 968 00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:08,800 Speaker 1: our lifetimes, happened in Northeast Syria. Um in like a 969 00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:15,840 Speaker 1: movement that was profoundly politically radical um and um not 970 00:57:16,040 --> 00:57:21,160 Speaker 1: at all like like fucking Jack Possobia calls them woke 971 00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,560 Speaker 1: all the time, like the fucking you know, it's exaggerated somewhat, 972 00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 1: but there was a profoundly progressive movement. And the reason 973 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:31,680 Speaker 1: why in that one and only case, shit worked is because, um, 974 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't a giant grift. Number one. We found a 975 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,280 Speaker 1: group of people who were already successfully fighting and we 976 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,000 Speaker 1: were just kind of like, what do you uh, what 977 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,080 Speaker 1: do you need like in order to to do this better? 978 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,120 Speaker 1: And we provided them with support rather than coming in 979 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,960 Speaker 1: and creating our own thing, which is also what like 980 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,080 Speaker 1: in Syria you had kind of the c I a 981 00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,360 Speaker 1: chunk of things which was we're gonna try and create 982 00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,520 Speaker 1: our own or like we're gonna try to build up 983 00:57:58,560 --> 00:58:00,960 Speaker 1: these this like kind of rebelica, hasty to fight aside 984 00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,920 Speaker 1: and like I just did not really work in the 985 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,720 Speaker 1: long run. It kind of I didn't succeeded, The thing 986 00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,560 Speaker 1: didn't wasn't successful. Interesting. Meanwhile, the d O D was like, well, 987 00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:13,120 Speaker 1: these people are already fighting very well against isis what 988 00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:17,000 Speaker 1: if we just make it easier for them? Um? And anyway, 989 00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:21,280 Speaker 1: I don't know everyone everyone saying anything is dumb. Don't 990 00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:25,200 Speaker 1: listen to anybody, that's true. Don't listen to podcast especially 991 00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,760 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts or people. It's just very, very complicated 992 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:34,120 Speaker 1: and a lot to unpack. Yeah, it's also like there's 993 00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:36,800 Speaker 1: keep saying stuff like that where it's like it's actually 994 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,680 Speaker 1: more nuanced than that, But that's always it's usually said 995 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,240 Speaker 1: to like shut down the thing being said, no, because 996 00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,360 Speaker 1: the reality is it is incredibly complicated, just Afghan politics, 997 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,000 Speaker 1: the history of the region. Why the and people get 998 00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:53,480 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff wrong. Like everyone's saying, well, we 999 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:55,840 Speaker 1: armed the Taliban, you know in the first place to 1000 00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:57,959 Speaker 1: fight the Soviets. Doesn't know what they're talking about, because 1001 00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,040 Speaker 1: that never happened. Uh, And in act, the Taliban came 1002 00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:03,160 Speaker 1: to power fighting a lot of the people that we 1003 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,400 Speaker 1: had armed to fight the Soviets because a bunch of 1004 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,240 Speaker 1: those guys were messy sons of bitches. Like it's a 1005 00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:10,840 Speaker 1: whole it's a whole thing. But like, we didn't create 1006 00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,560 Speaker 1: the Taliban to fight the Soviets. The Taliban were largely 1007 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,560 Speaker 1: a reaction to the people that we were arming to 1008 00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:22,400 Speaker 1: fight the Soviets. Um. Anyways, yeah, we do, we do, 1009 00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,920 Speaker 1: we do love to arm people, um, real American pastime, 1010 00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,440 Speaker 1: and there's a bunch of ship people get wrong. But 1011 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,320 Speaker 1: like the fact that the history is complicated and the 1012 00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,480 Speaker 1: fact that, like the scale of the funk up is 1013 00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,040 Speaker 1: massive and complicated, doesn't mean that the gist of what 1014 00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:41,480 Speaker 1: happened and went wrong in Afghanistan is complicated. What went 1015 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,560 Speaker 1: wrong is the only purpose of the war on the 1016 00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,200 Speaker 1: US end, really when you look at it from like 1017 00:59:47,240 --> 00:59:51,560 Speaker 1: an operational capacity, there were two things going on. One 1018 00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:54,640 Speaker 1: of those things was making billions of dollars for a 1019 00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,200 Speaker 1: small number of very corrupt people in the defense industry 1020 00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,080 Speaker 1: and the tech industry. The other thing that was going 1021 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,440 Speaker 1: on was politicians passing the bucks so that they didn't 1022 01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:09,000 Speaker 1: have to make any unpopular decisions. Like. That's what went on. 1023 01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,600 Speaker 1: And because of that, this incompetent and corrupt military leadership 1024 01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:18,280 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan was allowed to continue to metastasize in such 1025 01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,680 Speaker 1: a way that like the military never really had much 1026 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:24,800 Speaker 1: operation and the government never never had much operational capacity. This, 1027 01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,640 Speaker 1: this supposedly democratic government was never as effective at providing 1028 01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:30,640 Speaker 1: for basic needs in a lot of regions of the country. 1029 01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,960 Speaker 1: Is the fucking Taliban was um and you had like 1030 01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,200 Speaker 1: all of that results from the fact that this for 1031 01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,920 Speaker 1: the United States, the most powerful actor in the region, 1032 01:00:41,400 --> 01:00:46,160 Speaker 1: was never anything but a grift. Like that's that's the 1033 01:00:46,240 --> 01:00:48,560 Speaker 1: core of it. That's why it went so fucking wrong, 1034 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:51,640 Speaker 1: because there was never any attempt to do anything from 1035 01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:56,040 Speaker 1: the most influential actors in our government but profit from it. Um. 1036 01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,240 Speaker 1: And so yeah, of course it was a fucking disaster. 1037 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,280 Speaker 1: And the people who suffered most are not even US soldiers, uh, 1038 01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:06,160 Speaker 1: their Afghan citizens who died. And some don't want to leave. 1039 01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,200 Speaker 1: I think, by my calculations, about eighteen thousand of them 1040 01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:14,040 Speaker 1: don't want to leave it, would rather be there and 1041 01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:18,240 Speaker 1: take their chances. God fucking Biden. UM, I am sure 1042 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:23,800 Speaker 1: that we will continue talking about this, UM, one would imagine. 1043 01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:27,400 Speaker 1: But you're right, you can't possibly do the whole thing justice. 1044 01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:31,960 Speaker 1: And there's there's yeah, there's a lot of ship that 1045 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,800 Speaker 1: did go down. UM. It's it's certainly complicated, but like 1046 01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:40,160 Speaker 1: the gist of what went wrong is UM, a bunch 1047 01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:45,320 Speaker 1: of criminals who were incompetent invaded Afghanistan because it would 1048 01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:48,640 Speaker 1: help their polling numbers and make their friends rich, and 1049 01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:55,640 Speaker 1: it did. It's both complicated and incredibly simple. Yeah, it's 1050 01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,120 Speaker 1: very simple when you look at our role in it, right, 1051 01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:01,760 Speaker 1: the history of the region, the different like that's very complicated, 1052 01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,800 Speaker 1: but when you look at what we did, pretty simple. Yeah. Yeah. 1053 01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:10,840 Speaker 1: Um alright, guys, well, Robert, thank you again for for 1054 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:17,480 Speaker 1: the conversation. Uti go read someone who knows what they're 1055 01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:22,360 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. One book I always recommend if you 1056 01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,800 Speaker 1: want like kind of earlier history on Afghanistan, particularly about 1057 01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,960 Speaker 1: like the the British attempt to invade Afghanistan, because there's 1058 01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,680 Speaker 1: some fun parallels is The Return of the King for 1059 01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,920 Speaker 1: early Afghan history. I'm still kind of most of my 1060 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,240 Speaker 1: reading on this has been like just kind of journalism 1061 01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:43,000 Speaker 1: and and and uh like reports on like the ones 1062 01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:45,480 Speaker 1: we quoted. Um, but there's there's there's a couple of 1063 01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:47,880 Speaker 1: books that have come out pretty recently that are kind 1064 01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:51,920 Speaker 1: of tracing the whole the whole sweep of the War 1065 01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,440 Speaker 1: on Terror and like why it was such a disaster. Um. 1066 01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna check out a couple of those and see 1067 01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,720 Speaker 1: if I think any of them are very good. But um, 1068 01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,280 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I always recommend. The other 1069 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,320 Speaker 1: place I recommend is, um, let me see if they've 1070 01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,000 Speaker 1: actually got anything out about this today is Mongol Media, 1071 01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:14,080 Speaker 1: which is a collective of artists and writers from what 1072 01:03:14,200 --> 01:03:16,800 Speaker 1: they call the periphery, which is what a lot of 1073 01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,640 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of Americans either called the third 1074 01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:23,240 Speaker 1: world or the Global South. Um. I think periphery is 1075 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,320 Speaker 1: a much better term, and it's it's kind of the 1076 01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:28,400 Speaker 1: periphery in relation to how it's seen by people in 1077 01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,320 Speaker 1: you know, in the center of empire. But um, there's 1078 01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,400 Speaker 1: there's some good articles that some of them have written 1079 01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,440 Speaker 1: about growing up and like some of these these folks 1080 01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,960 Speaker 1: are fixers and like local journalists and so like they've 1081 01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,280 Speaker 1: had this experience of kind of like working with Westerners 1082 01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:49,520 Speaker 1: and trying to like Taylor content about their homelands for Westerners. Um. 1083 01:03:49,800 --> 01:03:52,480 Speaker 1: And there's a book or there's an article on Mongol 1084 01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:56,080 Speaker 1: Media called Afghanistan a Personal History that was published in 1085 01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,600 Speaker 1: twenty um that I recommend reading, um if you kind 1086 01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:04,400 Speaker 1: of want, you know, uh, an Afghan person's perspective on 1087 01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:09,400 Speaker 1: some of this right from that very interesting concept. Yeah yeah, 1088 01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,880 Speaker 1: not just for white people. Yeah yeah. And I'm sorry, 1089 01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:14,080 Speaker 1: like obviously this is going this was a very like 1090 01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,680 Speaker 1: focused on the US and funk ups because this is 1091 01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:19,840 Speaker 1: this is a US politics podcast, So that was obviously 1092 01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,280 Speaker 1: going to be more our bag, but that's not the 1093 01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,560 Speaker 1: most important story here. It's just that we're most equipped 1094 01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:29,400 Speaker 1: to tell. Yeah, and I also wanted to plug props 1095 01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:33,440 Speaker 1: Podcastood Politics that also covered what's going on in Afghanistan, 1096 01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:37,840 Speaker 1: so check it out. Alright, guys, we will be back 1097 01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:44,080 Speaker 1: next week. Um And I wish I had something funny 1098 01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,520 Speaker 1: or good to share and say right now, but I don't. 1099 01:04:50,760 --> 01:05:06,440 Speaker 1: First Year Ever everything, so dump and start again. I tried, Daniel. 1100 01:05:07,560 --> 01:05:09,760 Speaker 1: Worst Year Ever is a production of I Heart Radio. 1101 01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,240 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I 1102 01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,280 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 1103 01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:16,200 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.