Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm
Speaker 1: and Mild from Aaron Mankie Listener discretion advised. In thirteen
Speaker 1: twenty six, the billowing sails of eight warships rose over
Speaker 1: the sea on the English horizon. They were flanked by
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty two smaller vessels, all ready for
Speaker 1: an invasion. The ships had come from France. They had
Speaker 1: sailed from Flanders and were heading toward the Thames Estuary
Speaker 1: that September, as summer turned to fall. They were coming
Speaker 1: to depose the King of England. No invasion of England
Speaker 1: by sea had succeeded since the Norman conquest two hundred
Speaker 1: and sixty years earlier in ten sixty six. But this
Speaker 1: was no ordinary invasion by some hostile foreign power. The
Speaker 1: man leading the charge had been condemned to death, and
Speaker 1: he had been spared by the very king he was
Speaker 1: now coming to depose. But far more shocking was the
Speaker 1: woman standing next to him. She was the man's lover
Speaker 1: in adulterous scandal. She was said to be among the
Speaker 1: most beautiful women in the world. She had blonde hair
Speaker 1: blowing against her forehead now in the sea wind, she
Speaker 1: was dressed in widow's weeds, the black clothes of mourning,
Speaker 1: but her husband was alive for now. Her name was Isabella.
Speaker 1: She had been born in France, but she wasn't some
Speaker 1: foreign usurper. She was the wife of King Edward the
Speaker 1: Second of England. She was the most treasonous queen in
Speaker 1: all of English history. Born the daughter of the King
Speaker 1: of France, adored and then despised by her subjects, mother
Speaker 1: of the future sovereign, scorned and humiliated by an unpopular
Speaker 1: husband more interested in having affairs with men than in
Speaker 1: her She's known to history as a sinner, a Jezebel,
Speaker 1: maybe even a murderer, known in the end.
Speaker 2: As the she Wolf of France. She was Isabella, Queen
Speaker 2: of England, and she was sailing from the continent with
Speaker 2: troops and her lover by her side, and a steely
Speaker 2: glint in her eye, ready to depose her king. I'm
Speaker 2: Danas Schwartz, and this is noble blood. The little girl
Speaker 2: who would someday overthrow the King of England was born Isabelle,
Speaker 2: Princess of France around the year twelve ninety. She was
Speaker 2: the daughter of Philip the Fair, the handsome and fearsome
Speaker 2: King of France. She was one of seven children, the
Speaker 2: only daughter to survive to adulthood. Her father had keen
Speaker 2: political designs for each of his children's marriages, which this
Speaker 2: podcast actually covered in our episode on the Tordonell Affair.
Speaker 2: Suffice to say that in thirteen o three, at only
Speaker 2: seven years old, as a prized princess, Isabella was betrothed
Speaker 2: to then Prince Edward of England, who was nineteen. At
Speaker 2: the betrothal ceremony, Isabella made herself as tall as she
Speaker 2: could in front of an archbishop who was Edward's proxy.
Speaker 2: She put her little hand in the archbishop's big one
Speaker 2: and hoped with her child's heart that her husband would
Speaker 2: be good to her when they finally met, that he
Speaker 2: would love her, that he would fulfill her father's hope
Speaker 2: for a future king of England. And descended from both
Speaker 2: the French and English lines. But she must have noticed
Speaker 2: that her future husband never sent her any gifts across
Speaker 2: the English Channel, nor any letters. Even as a child,
Speaker 2: she may have wondered why not. Five years later she
Speaker 2: would find out. On January twenty fifth, thirteen o eight,
Speaker 2: twelve year old Isabella formally married Edward, who was by
Speaker 2: then King of England. Despite the mismatch in age, Edward
Speaker 2: was a handsome groom. Isabella biographer Alice and Weir describes
Speaker 2: the six foot tall Edward like a dang Disney prince
Speaker 2: for Isabella. Quote.
Speaker 1: He was well.
Speaker 2: Proportioned and had curly, fair shoulder length hair, with a
Speaker 2: mustache and beard. He was also well spoken. His mother
Speaker 2: tongue was Norman French and articulate, and he dressed elegantly,
Speaker 2: even lavishly end quote. One limitation of histories this old
Speaker 2: is we have very little insight into Isabella's thoughts around
Speaker 2: this time. Even the biographies and articles about her are
Speaker 2: frequently about her husband, which leaves a blank space in
Speaker 2: our understanding. The fact is that Isabella was twelve years
Speaker 2: old at her wedding to a man twice her age.
Speaker 2: Both Isabella's mother and her new husband's mother had been
Speaker 2: married by age eleven. Twelve was the youngest age at
Speaker 2: which the Church permitted sex between husband and wife. Historians
Speaker 2: generally believe that Isabella and Edward didn't consummate the marriage
Speaker 2: on their wedding night. I can imagine a young Isabella
Speaker 2: who was grateful for this reprieve. Maybe she felt like
Speaker 2: a child thrown into a stranger's bed, albeit a bed
Speaker 2: that she had been preparing for since youth. Maybe she
Speaker 2: viewed her new husband's restraint as chivalrous or loving, but
Speaker 2: that wasn't all it was. This podcast has covered the
Speaker 2: story of Edward the Second and his affair with the
Speaker 2: love of his life, his boyhood courtier Peers Gaveston. The
Speaker 2: fact that he's the tragic hero of one episode of
Speaker 2: this podcast and a side character in this one is
Speaker 2: just more proof that history can be told from many angles.
Speaker 2: Love for one person is heartache for another. The difference
Speaker 2: between comedy and tragedy is often just a matter of
Speaker 2: who your main character is. When Isabella arrived in England
Speaker 2: after the wedding, her husband greeted Gaveston with a degree
Speaker 2: of enthusiasm that shocked Isabella's relatives. Isabella had to watch
Speaker 2: as Gaveston wore jewels that were part of her dowry,
Speaker 2: and he wore purple to the coronation, the color of royalty,
Speaker 2: as though he were the true spouse of Edward being
Speaker 2: elevated to the throne. For Isabella, it was embarrassing. She
Speaker 2: told her father that She was quote the most wretched
Speaker 2: of wives. She received no money from her husband. She
Speaker 2: was miserable. She wasn't the only one. The English barons
Speaker 2: all wanted the king's favorite, Gaveston gone, and they got
Speaker 2: their way. In thirteen eight, six months after Isabella arrived
Speaker 2: in England, Gaveston was banished from the country. With Gaveston gone,
Speaker 2: Isabella's husband warmed to her. He started giving her lands
Speaker 2: and money. Wherever he traveled, she went with him. She
Speaker 2: may have felt like any girl who has a crush
Speaker 2: on a guy who has a crush on someone else.
Speaker 2: It hurts, yes, but maybe his affections can be turned.
Speaker 2: But then Edward brought Gaveston back. Everybody likes a catfight.
Speaker 2: Sensationalized history would have us believe that Isabella hated Gaveston
Speaker 2: to the end. Isabella was probably pained to see the
Speaker 2: return of her competition, but she was quite a bit
Speaker 2: older now with some relationship of her own with the king,
Speaker 2: and she reached some equilibrium with Gaveston. It's worth noting
Speaker 2: that everyone in this saga, from Gaveston to the lovers
Speaker 2: of both King and Queen that I'll mention later in
Speaker 2: this episode was married to a member of the opposite
Speaker 2: sex and had children of their own. Once Gaveston came back,
Speaker 2: Isabella was kind to his pregnant wife. She spent time
Speaker 2: with Gaveston. She may have even found him kind of amusing.
Speaker 2: But if Isabella mellowed somewhat towards Galveston, the English courts
Speaker 2: as a whole did not. They wanted him gone for good,
Speaker 2: violently if need be, as violence mounted around them. In
Speaker 2: thirteen eleven and twelve, Isabella told her husband that she
Speaker 2: was pregnant, probably hoping that with that news, Edward would
Speaker 2: prioritize her protection. He didn't. He left her at Newcastle
Speaker 2: while he protected Gaveston instead. Some piece of her must
Speaker 2: have learned, no matter how good her relationship with Edward seemed,
Speaker 2: she would never really come first. Gaveston would be brutally
Speaker 2: executed on June nineteenth, thirteen twelve. The details of that
Speaker 2: brutality belonged to Edward's story, covered in another episode. This
Speaker 2: is Isabella's story, and here it's more interesting to imagine
Speaker 2: her reunion with her grieving husband in the aftermath. I
Speaker 2: wonder if she felt a victor's gladness at being the
Speaker 2: only remaining competitor for her husband's heart, or a wife's
Speaker 2: sorrow for her husband's grief, or maybe she felt the
Speaker 2: empathy of the fellow unlucky in love. Either way, five
Speaker 2: months later, at age seventeen, Isabella gave birth to the
Speaker 2: heir to the throne, another Edward. She went on to
Speaker 2: have three more children with the king, and whether there
Speaker 2: was any love in the act of conception or purely
Speaker 2: dynastic duty was a secret that died with their history.
Speaker 2: What's certain is that once Gaveston was out of the
Speaker 2: picture for good, there was at least mutual respect between
Speaker 2: Isabella and her husband. Isabella was smart and savvy, versed
Speaker 2: in both English and French territorial and political interests. She
Speaker 2: was also impressively involved in negotiations and diplomacy. Edward, never
Speaker 2: one of the greats when it came to statecraft, seemed
Speaker 2: to like having his queen involved. They simply liked each other.
Speaker 2: They wrote letters to each other any time they were apart.
Speaker 2: They played gambling games together as a team. It would
Speaker 2: have been hard to imagine that this beautiful woman laughingly
Speaker 2: playing games of chance beside her husband would someday gather
Speaker 2: the flotilla that would overthrow him, but maybe there were hints.
Speaker 2: At one point, giggling playing a game, Isabella's ladies fake
Speaker 2: captured the king and wouldn't let him go until the
Speaker 2: fake ransom had been paid. Some games seemed more ominous
Speaker 2: in retrospect. Isabella spent years developing mutual respect with her husband,
Speaker 2: maybe even genuine affection, so she must have been devastated
Speaker 2: when she learned that his dalliances did not die with Gaveston.
Speaker 2: Not yet a decade after Gaveston's death, Edward took a
Speaker 2: new lover, Hula Dispenser, Royal Chamberlain. This dispense Her was
Speaker 2: nothing like Isabella's earlier rival, Galveston, who honestly seemed kind
Speaker 2: of meek, almost cute by comparison, Dispenser was a cruel
Speaker 2: and violent man, especially depraved toward women. He had one
Speaker 2: widow tortured until all four limbs were broken and she
Speaker 2: was said to have lost her mind. Isabella hated him,
Speaker 2: Dispenser began to turn her husband against her. It's possible
Speaker 2: that Despenser actually sexually harmed Isabella in some way, although
Speaker 2: the details aren't quite clear. As relations between France and
Speaker 2: England worsened, dispenser whispered in the King's ear, and Isabella
Speaker 2: lost everything. King Edward asked the Pope to annul their marriage,
Speaker 2: though the Pope declined. Isabella's lands were taken from her.
Speaker 2: French servants, who had come to England with her when
Speaker 2: she was twelve years old, were taken from her household. Finally,
Speaker 2: her three younger children were taken from her, on suspicion
Speaker 2: that she would incite them to treason because she's a
Speaker 2: French woman. Well, you tell someone what they are enough,
Speaker 2: they might believe you. She didn't deserve this treatment. Isabella
Speaker 2: was the Queen of England, the daughter of King Philip
Speaker 2: of France. She had spent years giving Edward children, doing
Speaker 2: his diplomacy, playing games with him, delighting side by side
Speaker 2: at the animals in their menagerie. No, she deserved a
Speaker 2: husband like her father had been, who never remarried after
Speaker 2: the death of his wife. Isabella's mother loyal to the end.
Speaker 2: Isabella's father was harsh as a king, but as a father,
Speaker 2: he was in touch with his daughter constantly. He mentioned
Speaker 2: Isabella's name in every written record of French concessions to England,
Speaker 2: knowing that she loved books. He made sure she got
Speaker 2: the gift of an ornately illustrated apocalypse. When she burned
Speaker 2: her hand, he sent doctors to attend to her. In England,
Speaker 2: Isabella's husband didn't show loyalty anywhere nearly that much. But
Speaker 2: Isabella's husband had never been loyal to her, so why
Speaker 2: she thought should she be loyal to him? Isabella started smiling.
Speaker 2: It hurt far more to have lost her husband's respect
Speaker 2: as a thirty year old adult than it had been
Speaker 2: as a child to have never had it. But she
Speaker 2: played nice, so nice that Edward himself allowed his beautiful,
Speaker 2: smiling wife to go alone to France, ostensibly as a
Speaker 2: peacemaker between the nations. A nightmare dressed like a day dream.
Speaker 2: When Isabella arrived in France, she kissed her brother, King
Speaker 2: Charles the Fourth, who looked so much like their departed father.
Speaker 2: She breathed in the sweet scent of home, and soon
Speaker 2: enough she encountered a man named Roger Mortimer. He had
Speaker 2: once been a friend and ally of King Edward, until
Speaker 2: under Despenser's cruel regime, he turned against the English king.
Speaker 2: They had this in common. Mortimer and Isabella. Mortimer had
Speaker 2: once been sentenced to death for treason against the king.
Speaker 2: But Edward had commuted the sentence. He could not have
Speaker 2: known at the time that he was sparing the life
Speaker 2: of the man who would become his wife's lover. Yes,
Speaker 2: Isabella started an affair with Mortimer, fueled by the aphrodisiac
Speaker 2: of shared hatred for her husband. There's something almost tragic
Speaker 2: that Isabella and Edward had so much in common. Both
Speaker 2: were trapped in a marriage when their real devotions were elsewhere.
Speaker 2: Both turned to an adulterous affair. We can imagine in
Speaker 2: a different life, in a different time in history, with
Speaker 2: a different understanding of sexuality, the wife and husband might
Speaker 2: have divorced, might have even remained married, but understood their
Speaker 2: desires for people that their spouses could never be. They
Speaker 2: had respected each other once upon a time, but that
Speaker 2: time was now long past. By thirteen twenty five, Isabella
Speaker 2: and Mortimer were playing it very smart, while at the
Speaker 2: exact same moment Edward played it very dumb. Edward sent
Speaker 2: his first born son to visit Isabella in France, which
Speaker 2: put all the power in her hand. She now had
Speaker 2: the heir. The king pretty soon realized his mistake. He
Speaker 2: started sending letter after letter to Isabella, to Charles, to
Speaker 2: anyone he could think of. He asked Isabella to come
Speaker 2: home to England and with their son. She sent back
Speaker 2: demure letters with feeble excuses. Oh, I couldn't possibly leave France.
Speaker 2: My brother wants us to say. Edward started to get
Speaker 2: very nervous. He was right to. Isabella was hanging out
Speaker 2: in France with English exiles who hated Edward. She was
Speaker 2: wearing the black garb of a widow, major alarm bells.
Speaker 2: It was probably seen as a symbol of her displeasure
Speaker 2: with her husband's infidelity, but it was also a threat.
Speaker 2: If she wasn't a widow yet, she would be one soon.
Speaker 2: She would make sure of it. Edward kept asking Isabella
Speaker 2: to return with their son, and Isabella kept defying him.
Speaker 2: It became like a game of keep away. Finally she
Speaker 2: made it plain she would not return to England except
Speaker 2: upon quote the destruction of Hugh. At this point Edward
Speaker 2: really and rightly freaked out. On December first, thirteen twenty five,
Speaker 2: his bishops wrote to Isabella, quote, the whole country is
Speaker 2: disturbed by the answers which you have lately sent to
Speaker 2: our Lord King, and because you delay your return out
Speaker 2: of hatred for Hugh la Dispenser. We warn you as
Speaker 2: a daughter to return to our lord King your husband.
Speaker 2: It's striking that Edward's bishops wrote from the perspective of
Speaker 2: a father figure to this woman whose father had actually
Speaker 2: helped her in her life. Isabella knew whose daughter she
Speaker 2: really was, so she and Mortimer drew up plans they
Speaker 2: would invade England by sea. At the time, it had
Speaker 2: been two hundred years since the last successful sea invasion,
Speaker 2: far but not so far outside life history that it
Speaker 2: couldn't be done again. They gathered their eight warships and
Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty two support vessels. Together they set sail.
Speaker 2: They landed in England two days later, September twenty fourth,
Speaker 2: thirteen twenty six. As far as invasions go, it was
Speaker 2: a shockingly easy and bloodless one. As had happened with Gaveston,
Speaker 2: Isabella's hatred of Dispenser matched the public sentiment. Under Dispenser's influence,
Speaker 2: Edward had become a tyrant. The people were on her side.
Speaker 2: Isabella and Mortimer captured Cambridge, then Oxford. Militias that were
Speaker 2: called in defense of the king instead defected to the
Speaker 2: side of the invaders. When Isabella found out what her
Speaker 2: husband did next, perhaps she felt only a superior, justified
Speaker 2: kind of vengeance. Perhaps she felt a twinge of sorrow
Speaker 2: at how predictable her husband was, how well she knew
Speaker 2: his heart, how much she had changed while he had not.
Speaker 2: As his reign collapsed around him, Edward left with Dispenser,
Speaker 2: just as he had with Gaveston years before, when she
Speaker 2: had been left alone and pregnant with their son. Isabella's
Speaker 2: husband had never been a great tactician. His actions gave
Speaker 2: her the chance to claim that he had abandoned his people,
Speaker 2: given up his throne. No one was willing to fight
Speaker 2: for him. The will of the nation was with Isabella.
Speaker 2: Dispenser was captured and brutally executed. He was hanged, castrated,
Speaker 2: and burned. Edward the Second was kept under guard in
Speaker 2: Berkeley Castle. On January twenty fifth, thirteen twenty seven, Edward
Speaker 2: the Third was proclaimed King of England. As he was
Speaker 2: only fourteen, not yet of age, someone else would have
Speaker 2: to rule as regent in his stead. Well, one woman
Speaker 2: was up to the task. Queen Isabella had invaded with
Speaker 2: popular support. She had deposed her husband. She essentially took
Speaker 2: the crown Queen. Mother Isabella came to rule on behalf
Speaker 2: of her son on a wave of public popularity. But
Speaker 2: the public is fickle. On September twenty first, thirteen twenty seven,
Speaker 2: former King Edward the Second was murdered in his captivity.
Speaker 2: It was said that he was suffocated by a pillow
Speaker 2: to the mouth and a heavy table to the stomach,
Speaker 2: and then killed, my apologies, by a hot iron up
Speaker 2: the rectum. Rumors swirled that Isabella and Mortimer had secretly
Speaker 2: ordered the king's death. After all, a living former king
Speaker 2: who had been deposed by his French wife and her
Speaker 2: lover would always be a threat to their rule. The
Speaker 2: public is fickle, after all, this was the Middle Ages.
Speaker 2: What if opinion had turned? What if over time Edward
Speaker 2: came to be seen as the wronged party and he
Speaker 2: gathered support. God knew if he were reinstated, it would
Speaker 2: be Isabella's head that rolled. But whoever was responsible for
Speaker 2: the loss of Isabella's husband, he was gone. Isabella was
Speaker 2: making royal decisions, and six months later, in thirteen twenty eight,
Speaker 2: she supported the Treaty of Edinburgh Northampton, which recognized Scotland's
Speaker 2: independence and promised her daughter to the son of the
Speaker 2: Scottish king. The English public felt betrayed, their support for
Speaker 2: Isabella fell apart. In an ironic twist, Isabella did what
Speaker 2: her husband had done. In the face of public day disapproval.
Speaker 2: She unjustly elevated the status of her lover to the
Speaker 2: consternation of the public and the pain of her family.
Speaker 2: Amidst calls for Mortimer's banishment, Isabella defiantly gave him an
Speaker 2: earldom that she invented for him, pretty much exactly in
Speaker 2: the mold of Edward's defiant elevation of Gaveston and then Dispenser.
Speaker 2: Isabella and her husband really did have a lot in common,
Speaker 2: and just as Isabella had done to her husband, her
Speaker 2: son did to her in thirteen thirty he took Isabella's
Speaker 2: favorite away. Mortimer was convicted of treason and hanged naked
Speaker 2: in London, where his body was left dangling for two days.
Speaker 2: And as for Isabella, for a woman regarded by history
Speaker 2: as evil, she got off pretty lightly. In life. Queen's
Speaker 2: of England have been beheaded and imprisoned for far less
Speaker 2: than deposing a king alongside an adulterous lover. But Edward
Speaker 2: the Third made sure that his mother was barely even
Speaker 2: mentioned in Mortimer's trial. Isabella was briefly placed under house arrest,
Speaker 2: but she lived out the majority of her next twenty
Speaker 2: eight years in freedom. Isabella died on August twenty second,
Speaker 2: thirteen fifty eight, at sixty three years old. Her body
Speaker 2: was embalmed and, per her own instructions, wrapped in her
Speaker 2: wedding cloak. It was an odd move for a woman
Speaker 2: who had been so betrayed by her husband. In the end,
Speaker 2: she wanted to dress as his bride. History was not
Speaker 2: kind to Isabella. The beautiful daughter of the Fair King,
Speaker 2: was called ugly, a sinner, a Jezebel until two thousand
Speaker 2: and six. She had no published biography, but her influence
Speaker 2: lasted centuries. When her brother, Charles the Fourth died, she
Speaker 2: insisted that her son had the rightful claim to the
Speaker 2: French crown, which eventually set off the Hundred Years War
Speaker 2: between England and France. She instigated the first parliamentary deposition
Speaker 2: of a king, which set a precedence that would depose
Speaker 2: five more kings over the next three hundred years. Today
Speaker 2: we might call her a fem fetale. They're sort of
Speaker 2: a hashtag feminist kind of basic reading of Isabella which
Speaker 2: her story lends itself to. She was a slighted woman
Speaker 2: overthrowing her tyrannical husband and removing his lover, who was
Speaker 2: a brutal torturer of vulnerable women and widows. But the
Speaker 2: Middle Ages don't really lend themselves to girl bosses. Mortimer
Speaker 2: had at one point threatened to kill her if she
Speaker 2: didn't follow through with their designs against the king. However
Speaker 2: bius or not he was, Isabella had needed Mortimer to
Speaker 2: do what she did. The role of women was constricted
Speaker 2: in the fourteenth century, and while Isabella acted fiercely, audaciously, bravely,
Speaker 2: she still had to rely on a man in order
Speaker 2: to do it. In fifteen ninety one, Shakespeare would coin
Speaker 2: the term she Wolf of France to describe Henry the
Speaker 2: Fourth's wife, Margaret of Anjous. Centuries later, in seventeen fifty seven,
Speaker 2: the English poet Thomas Gray applied the term to Isabella,
Speaker 2: quote she Wolf of France with unrelenting fangs that tersed
Speaker 2: the bowels of thy mangled mate. The name stuck. Isabella
Speaker 2: became known to history as the she Wolf of France.
Speaker 2: The imagery is striking a feigned creature waiting in the woods,
Speaker 2: the suggestion of sexual predation and indiscretion. There's also the
Speaker 2: suggestion in the phrase, though Gray didn't mean it, of
Speaker 2: a pack of other she wolves to come after. That's
Speaker 2: the story of Queen Isabella deposing her husband the King,
Speaker 2: but stick around after a brief sponsor break to find
Speaker 2: out whether she really was responsible for Edward the Second's murder.
Speaker 2: While many sources, including this very podcast, have speculated that
Speaker 2: Isabella and her lover Mortimer were behind the murder of
Speaker 2: the deposed King Edward the Second, not all historians agree.
Speaker 2: Another story goes that Isabella had nothing to do with
Speaker 2: the death of her husband. According to that story, Edward
Speaker 2: escaped his captors in thirteen twenty six, and a dampelganger
Speaker 2: was buried in his place. Eventually, he even reunited with
Speaker 2: his son, Edward the Third, in disguise as a humble,
Speaker 2: unsuspecting Welshman William the Welshman. It sounds like a merry
Speaker 2: children's book character, but it has an outside chance of
Speaker 2: being true. In this version of events, Isabella knew or
Speaker 2: had reason to suspect, that her husband was alive, and
Speaker 2: gave her peace to know she was not his murderer
Speaker 2: enough piece that she felt comfortable wrapping herself in their
Speaker 2: wedding cloak after her death, her conscience free. Noble Blood
Speaker 2: is a production of iHeartRadio and Grim and Miles from
Speaker 2: Aaron Manke. Noble Blood is hosted by me Dana Schwartz.
Speaker 2: Additional writing and researching done by Hannah Johnston, Hannahswick, Mira Hayward,
Speaker 2: Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. The show is produced by
Speaker 2: rima Il Kayali, with supervising producer Josh Thain and executive
Speaker 2: producers Aaron Manke, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. For more
Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.