WEBVTT - Using Bitcoin Privately And Why That's Important 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.680 So the big question is this, how do investors like 0:00:07.920 --> 0:00:11.800 us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.880 the right people that give us the tools and information 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:19.000 we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.319 That is the question, and this podcast will give us 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.439 the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 0:00:25.480 --> 0:00:28.960 this stuff. Welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptors podcast. 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:32.519 Today I am joined by Matt O'Dell. He has a 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.640 bitcoin privacy advocate. He's the co host of the Tales 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:39.200 from the Crypt podcast, and we get into some really 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:42.680 good topics today. We talk about privacy, talk about our privacy, 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:45.920 why it's important, how it's under attack. We talk about, 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:48.519 you know, the state of people, maybe not really carrying 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.880 the pessimistic view, but also the optimistic view of how 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.160 I think technology could actually help that. We get into 0:00:55.360 --> 0:00:57.960 bitcoin not being as private as people think, but really 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:01.160 being anonymous, how it's being you against us, and what 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.120 we can do about it. We get into some tools 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:06.680 and tactics and strategies that you can do every single 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:09.760 day to not only increase your privacy and sovereignty, but 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.800 really to benefit the entire community overall. It's a great podcast. 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:15.880 It was one that I was really looking forward to 0:01:15.880 --> 0:01:17.399 doing for quite a while. I'm glad we were able 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:19.000 to do it. So let's just go ahead and jump 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.440 right in. All right, everybody, Welcome to another episode of 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.479 the Market Disruptors podcast. Today we are joined by Matt 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.200 O'Dell um. He speaks a lot about bitcoin and privacy. 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:31.440 Is the co host of Tales from the Crypt podcast, 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.440 which is a great podcast I listened to all the time. 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:35.679 You guys should check it out if you're not already. 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:37.959 But he talks a lot about privacy. He's really caught 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:39.760 my eye and I wanted to talk more about that 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.120 for you guys today. So welcome Matt, happy to be 0:01:43.160 --> 0:01:46.039 here in market all right, good? So um, yeah, So 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.600 these are just really important topics. You know, with bitcoin, 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:51.080 there's so many different topics you can get into. And 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.240 and privacy. Our erosion of privacy and how bitcoin can 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:56.440 help solve that is definitely a big piece I want 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.400 to bring awareness to. Um, there's a lot we can 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:01.960 talk about there before we get too deep in. Just 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.160 for anybody who doesn't already know who you are, want 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:06.080 to just give us like a little background who you 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:08.000 are and then how you got here what you're doing 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:12.480 in the space. Yes, so, Um, I mean the easiest 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.639 way to describe myself is I'm just a bitcoiner. Uh. 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.840 You know, I fell into the bigcoin rabbit hole six 0:02:19.919 --> 0:02:23.120 years ago and I haven't looked back. Bitcoin is just 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:28.040 completely absorbed all my thought processes. My whole life is 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:33.240 absorbed by bitcoin. Um. So, I like quickly found a 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.920 place like in the in the educational realm of bitcoin, 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:38.400 trying to sort through all the bullshit that we see. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:43.920 Um and Uh, I found Marty. So we do Tales 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:45.359 from the crypt We do it once a week. We 0:02:45.440 --> 0:02:49.040 do a nice recap show. Um. I also created a 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:52.000 tool for it's a dead man switch called final message 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:57.840 dot io um, which is it uses bitcoin as as 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:01.040 the payments uh and the payments levels so that you 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.800 can pay without giving me any kind of identifying information. 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:06.280 Um and I. You know, I work a nice to 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.079 be out job that I don't talk about that it 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.560 helps me stacks. That's because I don't have to pay 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:16.760 attention to the price perfect Um. Yeah, I think it was. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:19.680 I've seen a few people talking about it, but I 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.880 think Francis Pollard is the first one I saw. You 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:26.080 talked about kind of like how thinking about bitcoin changes, 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.160 like even just the way that you think, right, it 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.720 changes almost maybe your reality or whatever. So you said 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.639 that your thought processes have been absorbed. Would you say 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:36.680 that it changes the way you think? Do you think 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:43.080 that's true? Oh? Yeah, I mean absolutely. I mean I think, Um, 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.240 you know, I I consider myself a realist and I 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.880 was very pessimistic when I was younger. Um, I didn't 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:55.520 really see like a solid way out for like the 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:57.760 house of cards that has been built over the last 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:02.760 forty fifty years. Um. And you know I, I guess 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:04.600 you can see you see it a lot in my 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.480 generation and they almost feels like a lost generation. And 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:12.640 Bigcoin really turned that on its head and gave me hope, UM, 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:15.240 that there's improvements that can be made, that that we 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.960 can actually do something, that that each of us has 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:23.120 the ability to to change, um, how this world functions. Uh. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.280 And then on top of that, I when it clicked 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.120 for me, I was like I just need to like 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.400 my number one goal is just to get as much 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:36.040 bigcoin as possible. Uh So. And I also come from 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.600 the um, you know, my dad told me at a 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.760 very young age, like you shouldn't be investing in things 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:44.039 that you don't understand. So when I all that combined, 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.000 I was like, well, now I guess I gotta spend 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:51.120 five hours a day on this here. I am. Yeah. Um, 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.240 you know, I kind of have a similar story. I 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.040 grew up, Um, I grew up in Texas. I grew 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:58.040 up in Texas. I don't live there anymore, but you know, 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:04.360 really conservative of home. My parents were like grassroots political organizers. 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:09.760 Uh grandfather's vets, fathers a VET. And you know I 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:13.000 uh so I was super involved, you know, super interested 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.080 in politics. And around like two thousand and twelve ish 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.560 eleven twelve, I got so disillusioned, kind of like what 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.760 you just said, pessimistic, like there's just no chance, there's 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.400 no there's no there's no choices that we have, there's 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.440 no options that we have, and I'm just I'm over it, 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:27.919 Like I don't even want to pay attention because it 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:30.560 just kind of makes me mad. And then when you 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.839 really when I understood bitcoin and what it really has 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.080 and what it can do, all of a sudden, like you, 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.160 I'm optimistic. Now we actually have a tool, and so 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.920 it's like I think we have a fighting chance now, 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:43.760 and so like I kind of was the same thing. 0:05:43.760 --> 0:05:45.200 It's like, well, I just want to try and push 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.680 this information as much as we can, because because now 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.000 we have an option, we have a tool. UM. I 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:54.480 like that. UM. I would say as far as changing 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.120 the way you think, um, one, one thing that I've 0:05:57.200 --> 0:05:59.679 noticed is that it's super interesting to see what happens 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:03.480 when you have a deflationary currency and what you're spending. 0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:07.480 Thoughts are like, right, all of a sudden, you're like, man, 0:06:07.600 --> 0:06:09.640 do I want to spend this money that could be 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:11.920 I could park into bitcoin and could be going up 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:13.480 in value, or do I wanted to spend it on 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.200 something that's pointless? And probably you know, when you start 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:20.320 to really think about value differently. Yeah, I mean people 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.400 people say like that's a uh, you know, it stops 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.840 you from spending bitcoin in particular, but I mean I 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.400 think it it leads you to be more frugal in 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:33.240 general because even with my you know, my paycheck is 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.440 in FIA, even with my USD, Like, if I spend that, 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:41.400 then money that's not going into bitcoin, right, So you just, yeah, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:44.160 it makes you. It makes you question you know, short 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.920 term thinking versus long term thinking very much. So now 0:06:46.960 --> 0:06:50.080 that's that's a Kinseian argument, right, that says, well, that's bad. 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.159 We we have to encourage spending. So there's a whole 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.520 different train of thought or school of thought. I should 0:06:56.560 --> 0:06:59.599 say that people have to get into that we shouldn't 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.520 always spend, right, we should save. And that can be 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.760 a whole another topic topic on its own, but it 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.280 ends interesting and I think even like you said, with 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:12.360 the generation and and uh being optimistic it it's encouraging 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:14.760 for me to see a whole new group of people 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.600 get into bitcoin for whatever reason, the tech or even 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.960 just the money. But then like you've done right where 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:22.600 you just digging on the research and you start going 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.840 down these rabbit holes and it's created this whole awareness. 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.680 Like even the word fiat, right, wasn't even really used 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:31.080 that long ago, right, it was a car. Yeah, it's 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.240 a car. Yeah. So now you know, I love seeing 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.480 this education and stuff like that coming out and that's 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.520 really cool. So, um, what I really want to talk 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.320 to you about today was just the privacy piece. Um, 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.000 you know, I think it's it's but you have to 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.440 kind of get into the philosophy aspect a little bit. 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:52.200 But privacy is super important. Um, I agree, and obviously 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:54.240 you do as well. A lot of people think that 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:57.520 bitcoin is private, and you know, it's one thing the 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:00.560 talking heads talk about, which is why it's bad, right, 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.920 people hide all these things. It's for drug dealers, blah 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:05.960 blah blah. Tell me how you view privacy a little 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:11.160 bit and why that's important for us. So, Um, I 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.040 mean a lot of a lot of what is shaped 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.960 by thinking in regards to privacy is where was the 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.400 Snowden revelations? I mean, and what what Snowdon brought to 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:24.200 us was the thing of conspiracy theories, um to have 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:27.600 you know, massive corporations around the world basically complicit with 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:32.480 government spy operations on their own citizens as well, right, Um, 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:35.360 so up until that point, I mean, I I think 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.040 when you start to think about privacy, you have to 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.880 think about who's collecting the information, how are they using 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:43.240 the information? Right? So, in a lot of these situations, 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.880 if you trust the people collecting the information, there might 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:51.000 not be many negative effects. Um. The Snowden revelation showed 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:55.160 us that that we can trust the people collecting those informations. 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:59.160 This information we can't trust, you know, at least like 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:03.280 pre Snowdon, you thought like Google was fighting on your side. Apple, 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:05.959 Apple was fighting on your side. Yahoo, all of them, 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:08.240 you thought they were all fighting on your side. And 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.280 even if they were collecting the information they were you know, 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:16.160 it wasn't part of a like a massive government surveillance operation. UM. 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:20.080 You know, you could go obviously it's not great that 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:21.800 you know, Google does target it adds to you and 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.040 all this other stuff. That's a major privacy issue as 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:27.640 it is. But when you start aggregating all this information together, 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:30.200 you start to really be able to map people and 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:32.520 and see how they operate and how they think on 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:36.680 the on a daily basis, um and and and when 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:40.800 you when you take that in aggregate, it really becomes 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:45.199 a super powerful tool to to control large amounts of people. Um, 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.800 you can quell descent. You know, you can stop protests 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:51.840 on just on a granular level to stop protests, but 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.199 you can quell all types of descent. I mean, we 0:09:54.520 --> 0:09:57.480 look in China and we see on um we chat 0:09:57.480 --> 0:10:00.480 there their number one chat app where everyone communicate like 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.200 you just can't say certain words, you can't even communicate 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.760 between each other. That's like a step even before protests. UM. 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:12.480 So so it really comes down to um, are do 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:14.320 you want to be a free person or not, because 0:10:14.360 --> 0:10:17.160 if you're if if you give up your privacy, you're 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.760 no longer a free person in today's age because that 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.200 information can be used against you at any time. They 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.520 might not use it against you now, they might not 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:26.200 use it against you in five years. They may never 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.240 use it against you, but they could at any moment 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.280 decided to use it against you. Yeah. I love what 0:10:32.520 --> 0:10:34.880 Snowdon said. He had a quote that really caught my eye. 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.079 And I think about a lot, which is those who 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.240 say they don't have need a right to privacy because 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.319 they have nothing to hide. He's like saying, you don't 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.320 need freedom of speech because you have nothing to say. 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.280 And I think, um, like what you said, Maybe they'll 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:48.560 never use it against you. I think they will. So, 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:51.680 you know, what we've seen, and what we've seen is 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.760 that we continue to have this division right and and 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.640 people are more polarized than ever. And so I think 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.640 no matter which side you're on, pro life or pro 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.040 choice or Democratic Republican or whatever, it doesn't matter which 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.320 side you're on, there's gonna be somebody on the opposite side. 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.160 And so there's always somebody who's gonna want to discriminate 0:11:10.160 --> 0:11:12.959 you against that because of one of your decisions. And 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:14.720 and and then maybe you know, especially now with it 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:16.640 being stored forever, something that you may have done the 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.760 past could could be there forever. Yeah, Let's say you 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.960 pissed someone off that's empowered ten years down the line. 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.880 They can just pull up all your text messages that 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.800 you've ever sent. They can just take it to pieces. 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.839 You know, maybe there's some little there's so many intricate laws, 0:11:31.880 --> 0:11:34.360 I mean in America, but think about worldwide. But they 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.320 can just pick up something and be like, you know 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:39.199 that was illegal, you did that wrong. Let me throw 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:42.960 you in jail. You know, blackmail, all types of blackmail. 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:47.960 People don't think like porn habits, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.880 And what happens is is, uh, you know, when I 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:53.560 start to worry that people are going to be listening 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.600 and watching, then I start censoring myself what I say. 0:11:57.679 --> 0:11:59.640 And then when I start censoring myself what I say, 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.120 then I starts censoring myself what I think. And when 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.720 I start to censor my thoughts and creativity, guys, And 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.839 that's a massive problem. Yeah, I mean, it's very intertwined 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:11.679 with free speech. I would say because I mean, without privacy, 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.160 it's really hard to have, like I just pretty much 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.600 impossible to have free speech. Yeah, so it seems like 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:21.079 it's under attack. We see, Um, you know in Hong 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.679 Kong they've been having these these protests which you mentioned. 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.240 Uh I saw you tweet I think today yesterday about 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:28.960 these kids being spied on at school the China social 0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:32.040 credit system. So do you feel that this is like 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:34.040 it's getting to be a bigger and bigger problem now. 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.520 I guess survey or technology helps that. Yeah. I mean 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:42.360 I think we're just to put my pessimistic hat on again. 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:45.000 I mean I think we're kind of we're kind of screwed. 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:49.760 Uh uh in terms of the like encroaching surveillance state, 0:12:49.800 --> 0:12:53.280 I mean, it's here we can push back. Um, we 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.160 can use tools that will help us. We have like 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.120 the rise of like the encrypted messengers, which is really good, 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:03.160 which we saw basically the onus is basically the Snowden revelations. 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:06.400 But now we have like signal, um, you know, WhatsApp 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:10.200 added encryption. Who even knows if that's legit or not. Um, 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.600 you got like Telegram, key base, we have we have 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.840 some we have more tools. I mean, look at I message, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:19.120 I message is isn't is the number one in messaging 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:21.960 app in America. I'm pretty sure it's got full encryption 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.720 on it. Um. Does the US government able to see it? Possibly? 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.439 But like at least everyone else can see it. Um. 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.760 So there's some glimmers of hope there. UM. But the 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:39.240 stuff like the facial tracking and UM traditional payments tracking, 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:42.480 I mean, I think we might have already lost that battle. 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:45.000 I mean what you were talking about with the schools 0:13:45.120 --> 0:13:52.040 is is like classic UM, classic government and like corporation playbook, 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.160 where you basically the parents are scared of school shooters. Right, 0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.320 So you play on that fear, and then you go 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:02.800 completely over aboard and you install facial recognition throughout the 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.959 whole school, and you map all the kids and you're 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:08.000 able to see where they move, who they talked to. UM, 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.160 they have government, if they have school issued computers, you 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.880 track all their communications on the computers. And and that's 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.720 where we saw on a larger scale with the Patriot 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.320 Act Actor September eleven. Right, so you have September eleven, 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:22.320 you put a bill up that just destroys everyone's rights, 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.440 and you just call it the Patriot Act because everyone 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.520 scares as hell. Yeah, that's the best way to get 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:29.680 someone to give up their rights is to scare them. 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.520 And I think maybe the quote isn't. They can't really 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.120 tell who've said it, but I think Jeffer Center or 0:14:34.200 --> 0:14:37.000 Frank Benjamin Franklin said right that those who are willing 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.280 to give up freedom for privacy deserved either you know, 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:42.880 some something to that regard. And and so people are 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.080 willing to give that up because they're scared. They want protection, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.560 but he says they deserve neither. And that's ultimately what 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:51.840 you get. You don't get protection or privacy or freedom. Um. Yeah, 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.840 recognition isn't. The facial recognition of schools is not going 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.480 to stop school shootings. No, And look if you look 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:02.400 back even you know, the overreach that we have at 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:04.480 the airport's. I mean, if you've the fly out of 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:06.720 l a X takes three hours, you know, and it's 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.320 like none of that what they did would have stopped that, 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.400 you know, whatever happened on nine eleven. So, um, I 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.880 agree with you on that. Yeah. Literally, they solved the 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.880 vulnerability of nine eleven by reinforcing the cockpit doors and 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.840 telling the pilots they weren't allowed to go into the 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:26.760 cabin if something happened like that solved it. That's all 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:29.040 they had to do. You couldn't get into the cockpit, 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.160 no one could, no one, No one could take over 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.280 the plane and fly into a building. That solved that. 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.840 Everything else is just security theater designed to and you know, 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:41.840 a rotor civil liberties. And also I think it's even 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.880 it's even more sinister than that because it kind of, 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.480 um it like builds in this default that people get 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:51.760 used to that that you know, they go to the 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:53.480 they go to the airport, and they're used to just 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:58.160 having no rights whatsoever, just getting completely searched zero like, 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:00.960 so they're like they're setting us up there. They started 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:03.640 adding facial recognition and for like check ins and stuff. 0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:07.680 A lot of the airlines yep I Marty says this 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:10.440 a lot on our podcast that the airports in America 0:16:10.760 --> 0:16:13.640 are like very much a testing ground. That that's what 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:15.920 we think. It's very much a testing ground to uh, 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.760 to erote our privacy and our our liberties further. Yeah, 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.920 it's definitely desensitization. Like you said, right, we're getting used 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:24.640 to it, and I mean you have no rights. I 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.000 mean you if you mess up even standing in line. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:28.400 I mean, they have the right to you know, who 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.400 knows what they're gonna do with you there. But I think, 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:33.560 as you said, you know, it's it's, it's it is. 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.080 It is easy to be a pessimist to see this, uh, 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:40.760 you know, encroachment or this continual growth in app Um, 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.680 I'm kind of, uh, I'm kind of starting to think 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.040 a little bit optimistically, and I want to see what 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:49.640 you think about this. So, um, you did mention that, 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.280 you know, we do kind of have this rise of 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.760 encryption apps, which is pretty cool. Um. I think it's 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:57.360 been kind of a perfect storm because on one hand, 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.440 you have people today who think they don't need privacy 0:17:00.440 --> 0:17:02.520 and they're willing to give up their privacy for freedom. 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:04.840 So people don't care about it, and at the same time, 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:06.440 we have technology making it easier. So it's like this 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:09.120 perfect storm to make it worse, but at the same 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.760 time that the same technology is also giving us a 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.320 way out. So you talked about messengers and messenger apps 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:17.440 and whatnot. But what I'm starting to see is I 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.840 think really the big piece was this Facebook scandal, this 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:23.600 data scandal, and people starting to realize that holy crap, 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.560 my data is being compromised. We have all these data 0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.840 breaches and whatnot, and I'm almost wondering. I'm thinking that 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:34.520 we might start seeing big corporations. We've already seen Microsoft 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:39.399 jumping in to try to offer privacy back and maybe 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:42.000 they maybe that might be a competitive edge. Maybe we'll 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.359 start to see big corporations start to compete on that 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:46.680 and really help push that narrative. What do you think 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:49.399 about that? I mean, we've seen it. Apple kind of 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:54.360 stumbled into it, but they've they've solidified it and made 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.840 it like a key pillar of their marketing, the privacy 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.919 st angle, which is good to see. UM. You know, I, 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:02.199 as you just said, Microsoft is also pivoting to be 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:05.919 more privacy focused. UM. I like to see that. I 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:09.280 think the market is demanding it. Um. It comes down 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:13.040 to the Snowden revelations again, though do we trust those people? 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:15.000 Is there any way to verify it? There's no way 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.720 to verify it. Um. So because we're talking about you know, 0:18:18.840 --> 0:18:21.040 we're talking about closed source software here where you can't 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:22.760 you can't even look at the source code. We don't 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.280 know what's going on. Well, if we see like what 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:26.280 Microsoft did right with I on putting it on a 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.480 block on the on the bitcoin blockchain. Maybe, yeah, I mean, 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:33.080 I just it comes down to trust. I think they're 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.639 all complicit. They can all get pushed behind back back 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.080 back rooms and just forced with legal uh you know, 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:46.840 legal ramifications. Uh. The thing is, UM, I do agree 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.800 that right now, more people care about privacy than they've 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.000 ever that that I've ever cared about in the history 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:53.760 of the world. I mean, partly because we have more 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.280 people in general, but it's it's trending up right, and 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.200 as we put more information online, there will be more leaks, 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:03.480 there will be more compromises, there will be more people 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:07.760 that directly get their civil liberties stepped on. Um. And 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.159 people will wake up one at a time, you know. 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:14.639 But the question is where when they do wake up, 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:17.080 is it gonna be too late at that point? Right? 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.760 We have to make sure that that we don't you know, 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.159 just completely fall off the cliff before that. Yeah, And 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.400 I think so, well, you know, we'll transition into bitcoin 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.520 because that's the big piece. And I really believe that 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:32.960 you know, bitcoin is you know, is a lot of things. Um. 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:34.399 I think a lot of us believe it can be 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.119 a new you know, monetary base layer, But I think 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.639 it almost solves every problem. So for example, if the 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:44.840 government didn't have unlimited, unlimited spending, if the government didn't 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.119 have unlimited spending, they probably wouldn't have unlimited overreach in 0:19:48.320 --> 0:19:51.000 technology either, right, So if we could limit their spending, 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.159 we could limit their overreach at the same time. So 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:57.199 maybe it helps that. Yeah, I mean I think it 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.480 all goes hand in hand, right U. I mean when 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.399 you when you start to talk about things like censorship, 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:08.520 resistance UM in terms of bitcoin, I mean, you need 0:20:08.600 --> 0:20:14.320 to have the the supply needs to be transparent, you 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:18.360 need to have a known monetary policy, which in bitcoins 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.359 cas is very simple, it's just fixed UM and and 0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:27.399 because otherwise, like I think censorship comes in into play 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.479 as well with with um inflation or something like that. 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:32.440 If they're able to inflate the supply, if they're able 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:34.400 to do all this other stuff, and if you don't 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.800 have a native token, then we can't use this technology 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.120 to transfer value in the first place, right because then 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.320 you know, and all these stuff that like oh we'll 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:44.520