Speaker 1: Hey, Brian, Hi Katie. Well, Brian, you probably know that
Speaker 1: this month marks the one year anniversary of that New
Speaker 1: York Times expose on Harvey Weinstein, those allegations of multiple
Speaker 1: cases of sexual misconduct, which rocked Hollywood and gave way
Speaker 1: to the Me Too movement as thousands of women from
Speaker 1: all walks of life came forward to tell their stories. Hollywood,
Speaker 1: Katie seemed to be ground zero for this movement, and
Speaker 1: within a few months, women there decided to form a
Speaker 1: coalition to combat sexual harassment and assault in the workplace.
Speaker 1: They called it Times Up, and the idea was to
Speaker 1: harness their power to stop sexual misconduct not just in
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry, but across a multitude of industries. That's right,
Speaker 1: and Times Up made a big splash, as you remember
Speaker 1: at this year's Golden Globes, when dozens of celebrities showed
Speaker 1: up to the awards wearing black and Times up pen
Speaker 1: But they also brought with them women who don't usually
Speaker 1: show up on the red carpet, those who represent domestic
Speaker 1: workers or have been toiling on factory floors across the country,
Speaker 1: Women who have had no voice about the abuse they faced.
Speaker 1: So we wanted to know where are we one year later?
Speaker 1: And at this moment, there's a new leader in the
Speaker 1: movement who was just announced as the first CEO of
Speaker 1: Times UP. Her name is Lisa Borders. Lisa is joining
Speaker 1: that organization after three years as president of the Women's
Speaker 1: National Basketball Association, and I had a chance to talk
Speaker 1: with Lisa in front of a live audience at the
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair New Establishments Summit last week, and joining Katie
Speaker 1: and Lisa for that conversation was an actor who has
Speaker 1: been instrumental in Times Up since the very beginning, America
Speaker 1: Ferrera and Brian. Because of my daughters Ellen and Carey,
Speaker 1: I will always think of America as Kerman from Sisterhood
Speaker 1: of the Traveling Pants. But since then she's been very busy.
Speaker 1: She's formed her own production company, she started an Ugly
Speaker 1: Betty and now superstore. In her spare time, she put
Speaker 1: together a new book called American Like Me, reflections on
Speaker 1: life between cultures. But what's taken a big chunk of
Speaker 1: her time is her political activism. She spoke at the
Speaker 1: Democratic Convention and of course as an outspoken critic of
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. And by the way, I hope he
Speaker 1: doesn't decide to attack her looks on Twitter or something
Speaker 1: similarly mature like that. Yes, here's hoping, But Brian, no,
Speaker 1: Lisa has a very interesting backstory. You'll find what she
Speaker 1: did prior to coming to the w n B A
Speaker 1: I think fascinating. Meanwhile, I talked to both of them
Speaker 1: about the work they've done so far and what they
Speaker 1: planned to do in the future, and America's passion for
Speaker 1: everything political made me ask her if she'd ever consider
Speaker 1: running for office. After all, Brian, her name is Taylor,
Speaker 1: made for a campaign slogan right America for America lutely.
Speaker 1: But I began by asking these two powerhouses to describe
Speaker 1: what Time's Up actually is. Time's Up started about a
Speaker 1: year ago, at the critical moment where um stories were
Speaker 1: breaking and women were coming forward and sharing their stories,
Speaker 1: and this incredible thing started happening in our industry, which
Speaker 1: was that women started gathering in rooms in these unprecedented ways,
Speaker 1: women across disciplines and across studios and across networks and
Speaker 1: across agencies showing up and saying what are we going
Speaker 1: to do? Because we can't let this moment go by
Speaker 1: and not harness our anger, our fear, our pain that
Speaker 1: we have all been living with silently and and and
Speaker 1: isolated from one another. And it's a sisterhood, is what
Speaker 1: it is. And we didn't know what we were building.
Speaker 1: All we knew was that we we needed to use
Speaker 1: our voices, and use our access and use our platform
Speaker 1: to stand up and say that we no longer could
Speaker 1: sit silently and accept the imbalance of power that exists
Speaker 1: in our industry and that we know exists across all
Speaker 1: other industries. So times Up is that it's a sisterhood,
Speaker 1: and also it's a brotherhood for any man who stands
Speaker 1: with us and believes in women having the right to
Speaker 1: be safe and dignified in their workplaces. UM, that's what
Speaker 1: Time's Up is, And it's a movement that has expanded
Speaker 1: outside of our entertainment industry. UM, women in in the
Speaker 1: tech industry, in the advertising industry, in the venture capital industry,
Speaker 1: in the health care industry have all started organizing around
Speaker 1: times Up in their own organizations. So it's bigger than
Speaker 1: any of us could have ever imagined and harder to
Speaker 1: explain than in one short center. And we'll talk more
Speaker 1: in a minute, America about some of the other things
Speaker 1: that you all have been able to accomplish. But Lisa,
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, what may do you decide
Speaker 1: you were going to take the helm of Times up?
Speaker 1: Did you have an aha moment that made you think
Speaker 1: this feels right. I have to be more involved in
Speaker 1: this movement. Absolutely So. I was watching the Golden Globes
Speaker 1: and I heard Oprah Winfrey the Oracle say, a new
Speaker 1: day is on the horizon. Very good, that residination. But
Speaker 1: I already had the privilege of leading the W. N
Speaker 1: b A had twelve teams, a hundred forty four elite
Speaker 1: athletes who are some of the best female athletes athletes,
Speaker 1: not just female athletes in the world. So I had
Speaker 1: the privilege of steward ng A League of Women. So
Speaker 1: this is a continuation of work not only from the
Speaker 1: W but work that I've been doing for four decades.
Speaker 1: It seems very natural. I had the privilege of being
Speaker 1: at the W, which was sports, one sector, one industry.
Speaker 1: Times has the ability to impact multiple or all industry,
Speaker 1: women of all kinds across the globe. So it's not
Speaker 1: only in the US or North America. This is a
Speaker 1: global movement here and now, and I know that in
Speaker 1: many ways activism really runs in your family. Tell us
Speaker 1: about that, Lisa, and how that inspires you. Sure. So,
Speaker 1: my home city is Atlanta. Katie knows that I love
Speaker 1: my city. It's the cradle of the civil rights movement,
Speaker 1: and I'm a civil rights baby. We all have benefited
Speaker 1: from the legislation that was passed in the nineteen sixties.
Speaker 1: But I personally helped integrate independent schools in my home city,
Speaker 1: just like many other African Americans across the country. But
Speaker 1: my grandfather, who was a minister in Atlanta, really led
Speaker 1: many of the marches in the city during the sixties.
Speaker 1: The clan burned across on his yard in the late
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties. I was called racial slurs from seventh grade
Speaker 1: to twelfth grade every single day. So I have real
Speaker 1: personal experience with being treated improperly or poorly or mistreated,
Speaker 1: or having folks have perceptions of me that weren't true,
Speaker 1: that we're in their head. So the notion of social
Speaker 1: justice or of treating people fairly or ensuring that they
Speaker 1: are safe, that they have their dignity intact every day
Speaker 1: when they come to work and when they live their lives.
Speaker 1: More importantly, comes very naturally to me because I grew
Speaker 1: up in this environment in Atlanta, which was segregated growing up,
Speaker 1: but which integrated during my lifetime, and I had the
Speaker 1: experiences all the way through. Uh. Dr King's church is
Speaker 1: one block from my home church, and he would come
Speaker 1: and listen to my grandfather preach, and frankly, he was
Speaker 1: just Marty's dad or Yoki's dad. He wasn't Doctor King.
Speaker 1: And I think I was forty Katie before I really
Speaker 1: understood that I had lived through history, including his assassination
Speaker 1: and witnessing his funeral, and watching my friend Bernice, the
Speaker 1: youngest of the King children, walking down the street, a
Speaker 1: very quiet street, holding her mother's hand, with her father's
Speaker 1: casket being pulled, an American flag draped, and two mules
Speaker 1: pulling that wagon. So moving to hear you talk about that, Lisa. Honestly,
Speaker 1: you know, America talked about sort of all these different verticals,
Speaker 1: if you will, all these different industries getting together. By
Speaker 1: the way, if you need somebody in media, I'm your girl.
Speaker 1: But but but what about some of the other things
Speaker 1: that are happening behind the scenes, Because I think that
Speaker 1: a lot of people recognize the sort of public, forward
Speaker 1: facing actions that you all have taken at award shows
Speaker 1: or things like that. But a lot of hard work
Speaker 1: is going on behind the scenes that I feel like
Speaker 1: people don't know about. Yeah, yeah, And you know, when
Speaker 1: when we're us figuring it out, it's hard to explain
Speaker 1: it and present it when you know this is unprecedented.
Speaker 1: The women in our industry have never organized in this
Speaker 1: way before, and certainly not women in my position who
Speaker 1: are actresses. And we've been taught to be the face
Speaker 1: of of issues or the face of movements, or the
Speaker 1: face of some charity. You know, you would all be
Speaker 1: so surprised to learn about the names and the faces
Speaker 1: that you know, you expect to see on the Golden
Speaker 1: Globe carpets, But you don't expect them to be meeting
Speaker 1: four times a week after a long day of work
Speaker 1: to roll up their sleeves and say, Okay, what's the
Speaker 1: language of the tweet that's really going to cut through
Speaker 1: this moment? And how are we you know, how are
Speaker 1: we working with our unions to get them to adapt
Speaker 1: codes of conduct? How do we um figure out how
Speaker 1: to implement inclusion writers in our contracts? And and one
Speaker 1: of the things that is really in the DNA of
Speaker 1: times up from the very beginning is this notion that
Speaker 1: it is not just about us as women in entertainment.
Speaker 1: It is about women all across the country and the world,
Speaker 1: and it's and it's about the dignity of every person
Speaker 1: being able to show up and be safe in work.
Speaker 1: And and the way that manifested for us from the
Speaker 1: very beginning was that the president of the National Women's
Speaker 1: farm Workers Alliance wrote a letter to the women in
Speaker 1: Hollywood after the Weinstein investigation started breaking. She wrote a
Speaker 1: letter on behalf of seven hundred thousand farm workers. These
Speaker 1: are women in the field who are the most invisible
Speaker 1: and marginalized and sidelined among us, to say to the
Speaker 1: women in Hollywood, we see you, we know your pain,
Speaker 1: and we stand with you as your sisters. And this
Speaker 1: lit a fire under us and and called us to
Speaker 1: action to not just do what was right for us
Speaker 1: and the women in our industry, but to say, we
Speaker 1: have an access that so many women will never have,
Speaker 1: but we have got to include them and every single
Speaker 1: thing that we do. And one of the first steps
Speaker 1: that we took before we were anything was establishing the
Speaker 1: Legal Defense Fund with the National Women's Law Center and
Speaker 1: raising twenty two million dollars to help women and men
Speaker 1: across all industries fight their cases of sexual harassment. And
Speaker 1: so that's not sexy golden globes, you know Oprah empowering
Speaker 1: speeches on television, But that is the on the ground,
Speaker 1: behind the scenes work that is getting done every day
Speaker 1: by by women who have never come to this work before,
Speaker 1: but are rolling up our sleeves and figuring it out.
Speaker 1: And we're only a year in and we get to
Speaker 1: say that we have this amazing woman who is stepping
Speaker 1: in to lead us, and seeing as we've accomplished so
Speaker 1: much in just one year, it thrills me to a
Speaker 1: man gin where we're going to be in a year
Speaker 1: with the leadership of Lisa. Well, that's an excellent segue
Speaker 1: to my next question, America, So thank you. I know
Speaker 1: you haven't officially started yet, Lisa, but when you look
Speaker 1: at this organization and you see what has been built
Speaker 1: in this period of time, how do you hope to
Speaker 1: bring it to the next level? I mean, what are
Speaker 1: sort of some of the gaps that need to be
Speaker 1: filled structurally and and just tell us sort of what
Speaker 1: you're envisioning, knowing that you're it's very early. Yes, it
Speaker 1: is very early. I start officially on November one, but
Speaker 1: clearly I have started. We are all in this together,
Speaker 1: so I think before you can address any problem, America
Speaker 1: said it so beautifully. We have acknowledged that there is
Speaker 1: a problem, and it's not just an entertainment. It's across sectors,
Speaker 1: it's across industries, it's across all geographies, all socio economic groups.
Speaker 1: So awareness of the problem has been built in a
Speaker 1: amazing way, and I think Hollywood has done a terrific
Speaker 1: job of that. So one of the things we must
Speaker 1: pivot to, though, is to demonstrate empirically that this problem
Speaker 1: exists beyond Hollywood, because a lot of folks still think
Speaker 1: it's only in one place. So that's number one. We
Speaker 1: have to then address the problem. We've decided we can't
Speaker 1: boil the ocean. We're gonna focus in three areas, culture, companies,
Speaker 1: and laws. What happens in culture gets normalized in our
Speaker 1: everyday lives. So we're not just trying to mitigate bad behavior,
Speaker 1: we're trying to eliminate bad behavior. So how do we
Speaker 1: address that from a cultural perspective? We want women and
Speaker 1: enlightened men, or anyone who is interested in the same
Speaker 1: thing philosophically that we are interested in, and this is
Speaker 1: about valuing women, valuing their voice. Oftentimes we hear comments
Speaker 1: about our actress sisters, well they should just act. Well,
Speaker 1: now that's what they do. That's not who they are.
Speaker 1: What America is talking about is what they do and
Speaker 1: who they are. The same thing was said about our
Speaker 1: athletes in basketball, they should just dribble and shut up.
Speaker 1: I think not. I think not. In fact, you made
Speaker 1: a pretty pretty vocal statement about that. Absolutely. So addressing
Speaker 1: the issues, whether it's through the courts, which is a
Speaker 1: page right out of the civil rights playbook, right passing laws,
Speaker 1: let's go back to and fifteen Amendment, looking for people's
Speaker 1: rights to be codified. That's one thing you can do.
Speaker 1: But after the laws are passed, you must remain attentive
Speaker 1: and open the hearts and minds of people that that
Speaker 1: law governs, or over a time it will be eroded.
Speaker 1: So fast forward fifty years from the civil rights movement.
Speaker 1: People are now trying to deconstruct those laws and take
Speaker 1: the teeth out of them, one tooth at a time.
Speaker 1: So we made a ton of progress in civil rights
Speaker 1: for people of col are primarily African Americans, we still
Speaker 1: don't have an equal rights Amendment for women. We don't.
Speaker 1: We still have situations where we have sexual hassault and
Speaker 1: harassment at work and other places. We should not tolerate that. So,
Speaker 1: whether we address the remedies through large companies who have
Speaker 1: big blocks of employees or the laws on the books,
Speaker 1: that's going to be stepped to addressing the problem and
Speaker 1: then acting to ensure that they are sustainable, sustainable solutions.
Speaker 1: We can't just have a one off solution, one program,
Speaker 1: one memo goes out to every company and then oops,
Speaker 1: we're done. I think not If we are not vigilant
Speaker 1: and attentive on an ongoing basis, the movement will not
Speaker 1: be sustained and the work that we do will not endure.
Speaker 1: But changing cultures is so hard. You know, we're talking
Speaker 1: about institutionalized misogynists and sexism, and really I think learned behaviors,
Speaker 1: cultural conditioning. Uh, and how do you really do that?
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think diversity training is necessarily the answer.
Speaker 1: Sexual harassment training I don't think worked very well, at
Speaker 1: least in my industry. And also I think that the
Speaker 1: power powers that be are so invested in maintaining the
Speaker 1: status quo. They don't want to let go of that power.
Speaker 1: So it just seems to me so challenging to go
Speaker 1: from activism to action and really institute these changes. It's
Speaker 1: really not I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: the powers that be, maybe they shouldn't be the powers
Speaker 1: that be. Well, sometimes you know, nobody tells them that,
Speaker 1: you know, and even if they did, they're not going
Speaker 1: to go anywhere. Well, we don't have to have them
Speaker 1: go anywhere. We move them out and bring new people in.
Speaker 1: That's called voting in this country typically, But I'm even
Speaker 1: talking about that. You know, the heads of companies and everything.
Speaker 1: Do we have to wait till they retire it or die?
Speaker 1: I think, if I may, I sure we are living
Speaker 1: a change in culture at this very moment, and I
Speaker 1: think that no, we're not. No, No, companies have taken
Speaker 1: the lead and said we're changing in these big, massive ways.
Speaker 1: But we have begun the cultural and mental shift among
Speaker 1: ourselves as women in this country and on this planet.
Speaker 1: And I would say, I don't know about you, but
Speaker 1: for me, for the women in my life, I have
Speaker 1: seen an awakening in the women in my life just
Speaker 1: to be able to a speak their truth, be know
Speaker 1: that their sisters are gonna be there with them and
Speaker 1: see just say, we are not going backwards. And that
Speaker 1: is a cultural shift that I've seen in my lifetime,
Speaker 1: and I think it starts there. We have to be
Speaker 1: willing as women to give ourselves the permission to be
Speaker 1: angry enough to say to say what the problem is,
Speaker 1: to call it what it is, and then to call
Speaker 1: each other to action. And I think that comes first,
Speaker 1: and I think we are living that moment right now,
Speaker 1: and things like the confirmation of Kavanaugh are are exposing
Speaker 1: this moment for what it is and constantly fueling that
Speaker 1: awakening and that fire. We'll take a quick break now,
Speaker 1: and when we come back, I'll ask Lisa and America
Speaker 1: about how recent news has affected both me too and
Speaker 1: time's up and America hence what might be next in
Speaker 1: her career. That's right after this. Now, let's get back
Speaker 1: to Katie's conversation with Lisa Borders and America Ferrara. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about Brett Cavanaugh. In in many quarters and
Speaker 1: in many offices in the U. S. Senate, uh Dr
Speaker 1: Christine Blassie Fords testimony was discounted, dismissed, and in the
Speaker 1: case of President Trump mocked. So how much of a
Speaker 1: set back to the movement in general was Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a setback. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: so much of what has happened um in the past
Speaker 1: couple of years, starting with the announcement of Trump running
Speaker 1: for president, was for so many people a painful awakening
Speaker 1: and illumination of what so many other people have known
Speaker 1: has existed forever. And and I think that things like
Speaker 1: the confirmation of Brett Kavanaugh are telling us exactly where
Speaker 1: we are, and we can no longer kid ourselves about
Speaker 1: what is happening and how it has happened and how
Speaker 1: it has been allowed to happen for so long. If
Speaker 1: you put yourself in the position that Christine blasi Ford
Speaker 1: was in on that day, she was staring at a
Speaker 1: panel of white men, that is not an accident, it
Speaker 1: was It's like that by design. I think what Lisa
Speaker 1: was going towards is we have the power to change
Speaker 1: what that room looks like. Who Christine blasi Ford has
Speaker 1: to speak her truth to. We have the how we're
Speaker 1: to change that, and and I think we the first
Speaker 1: step is reckoning with what is our reality Okay, this
Speaker 1: is our reality. This is what the room looks like. Now,
Speaker 1: how do we take our anger with the view of
Speaker 1: that room and change what that room looks like? From
Speaker 1: times up perspective, We'd like to see systemic change, right,
Speaker 1: we want enduring change. So to that point, as we
Speaker 1: think about what the Judiciary Committee looks like today and
Speaker 1: what the Judiciary Committee could look like tomorrow. Because women
Speaker 1: are more than fifty percent of the population here in
Speaker 1: the US, but as we look at women running for office,
Speaker 1: they are running in record numbers and they're winning in
Speaker 1: record numbers. We were looking at some statistics just before
Speaker 1: this together and we noted that if women win at
Speaker 1: the case that they are winning right now, they will
Speaker 1: be thirty eight percent of the elected officials in public office.
Speaker 1: That is an amazing number. Do we want more of horse?
Speaker 1: But when we look today and see how many governors
Speaker 1: are female, how many representatives, how many senators, And it's
Speaker 1: not that only women can support women or lead women
Speaker 1: or represent women, but we need those folks who are
Speaker 1: centric and central and sensitized to what women need and
Speaker 1: what women want and what we all deserve. We expect
Speaker 1: not just in the mid terms here, but in twenty
Speaker 1: and beyond that, more people not only will vote, but
Speaker 1: they will vote for those candidates who understand what the
Speaker 1: real challenges are and who will begin to reflect the
Speaker 1: values that we all hold dear rather than the extremes
Speaker 1: on either side. Frankly, it's interesting, you know, I found
Speaker 1: it very disconcerting that President Trump, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Grassley,
Speaker 1: or in Hatch Marco Rubio, I'll describe female protesters at
Speaker 1: the Capitol as an angry mob, and they're clearly using
Speaker 1: it as a wedge issue to motivate Republican voters to
Speaker 1: go to the polls in the mid terms. It seems
Speaker 1: to me that time's up. What started me to end
Speaker 1: time stuff, What started as a as a movement that
Speaker 1: I think was for the most part universally supported and
Speaker 1: seeing as unacceptably bad behavior just full stop, has now
Speaker 1: become so politicized, and I'm wondering it can Can it
Speaker 1: return to being an issue that's not a left right
Speaker 1: issue but a right wrong issue. I'm so confused by
Speaker 1: the notion that our lives and the laws that govern
Speaker 1: our lives could in any way be separate from politics.
Speaker 1: Like I my life has been politicized since I was
Speaker 1: nine years old. I didn't choose to politicize my life.
Speaker 1: I was nine when legislation in California made it okay
Speaker 1: for my teachers to pull me aside and asked me
Speaker 1: if my family was documented or undocumented in this country.
Speaker 1: So the notion that our day lives aren't completely linked
Speaker 1: to the laws that govern how we live our lives
Speaker 1: and what we are able to do with our lives.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you de politicize the issues that
Speaker 1: impact us every day, because I've never been able to
Speaker 1: live it. And so maybe there are some people who
Speaker 1: have had that privilege of living their lives devoid of politics,
Speaker 1: or at least the illusion that their lives are void
Speaker 1: of politics. But when you're someone like me, you're very
Speaker 1: aware that politics govern your everyday life. And I don't
Speaker 1: know that we can separate women seeking dignity and safety
Speaker 1: in their everyday lives from what's happening in the halls
Speaker 1: of power. They seem one in the same two to me,
Speaker 1: I'm with you, and at leasta, you know when I
Speaker 1: talk to you about sort of the people who did
Speaker 1: not believe Dr Ford or did not find her experience
Speaker 1: even that really didn't even acknowledge that it ever happened.
Speaker 1: And you said, you have an interesting technique of dealing
Speaker 1: with people who are so hell bent on not listening
Speaker 1: or not hearing or not seeing. Right, I do, Katie?
Speaker 1: So may I try it here? Sure? Are you ready?
Speaker 1: So let me invite everyone to close their eyes and
Speaker 1: imagine that the female member of your family. Let's start
Speaker 1: with your mother. Is it home and she is alone,
Speaker 1: it is nine o'clock at night, someone comes crashing through
Speaker 1: the door and begins to beat her and rips her
Speaker 1: clothes off and throws her against the wall and gropes
Speaker 1: and rapes her. How do you feel open your eyes?
Speaker 1: Is that not the most painful thought you could possibly have?
Speaker 1: Is that not a thought that would make you want
Speaker 1: to spring into action on behalf of your loved one
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Katie, what I believe
Speaker 1: is people have to be have something feel relevant and
Speaker 1: resonant for them as individuals. It cannot be an abstract
Speaker 1: concept that we talk about or a social construct. It
Speaker 1: must be something that you either feel happen to you
Speaker 1: or happen to someone you know, love and respect. Otherwise
Speaker 1: it becomes an inanimate object or something that you can
Speaker 1: put to the side because you cannot relate in any way.
Speaker 1: So I invite people to try and listen first and
Speaker 1: internalize what might have happened, and to that person, whoever
Speaker 1: he or she might be, because that pain is real,
Speaker 1: that trauma is real. And the challenge with politics today
Speaker 1: is that we are so polarized we refuse to even listen.
Speaker 1: We think we have the answer before someone else can
Speaker 1: speak their truth, whatever it is, whether you disagree with
Speaker 1: it or not. And I guess, as you had to,
Speaker 1: I guess in the civil rights movement, do you just
Speaker 1: have to say there are going to be certain people
Speaker 1: out there who just don't get it and it can't
Speaker 1: stop this from moving forward. Well, that's exactly right. There's
Speaker 1: always in any situation that I have found in my
Speaker 1: sixty years of living, ten of the people are early adopters.
Speaker 1: Of the people will follow the ten percent they're the
Speaker 1: majority under the curve, and ten or what are called lacks,
Speaker 1: they will never get it and they will never join.
Speaker 1: You have to forget the laggards and move on with
Speaker 1: It's just that simple. And what we tend to want
Speaker 1: to do is have the people come with us. That's
Speaker 1: just not happening. We have a question from the audience
Speaker 1: for you, Lisa, given your experience on the front lines
Speaker 1: of the civil rights movement and the hall team progress
Speaker 1: of racial equality in this country, how long is the
Speaker 1: Times UP movement going to take? Boy? I wish I
Speaker 1: had a crystal ball and could answer that one two
Speaker 1: and a half years. No, I can't say two and
Speaker 1: a half years um. As we look back at the
Speaker 1: Civil Rights movement, it's probably the one most recent that
Speaker 1: I recall in terms of duration. But you could also
Speaker 1: look at the Arab spring in North Africa and see
Speaker 1: these movements are often started by a disenfranchised class. Often
Speaker 1: they are very young, and it takes a very long time,
Speaker 1: I mean generations to get things done. We do not
Speaker 1: want to move at glacial speed, but we also know
Speaker 1: that challenges that we see on the horizon that have
Speaker 1: been here for centuries. The patriarchy that we live in
Speaker 1: has been the status quo for generations. We cannot snap
Speaker 1: our fingers and have it be corrected in no time flat.
Speaker 1: We also can't do it by ourselves. America and I
Speaker 1: and all of our sisters at Times Up are deeply
Speaker 1: committed to this challenge. But we need those of you
Speaker 1: in the audience and plokes around the world to help
Speaker 1: us and support us to push back on what we
Speaker 1: are now because beginning to normalize this bad behavior, we
Speaker 1: cannot normalize that by any shape, form or fashion. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, Katie, the sooner people join us in
Speaker 1: this fight, the fat stir it will be to rectify
Speaker 1: and remedy what is going on today. And also maybe
Speaker 1: American Lisa, you can talk a little bit um the
Speaker 1: importance of having male allies and making this movement inclusive
Speaker 1: for men whose support gender equality right. The folks who
Speaker 1: disagree with us, or who are deeply fearful of what
Speaker 1: we are trying to do, they have this misnomer that
Speaker 1: we are just attacking men. We are attacking bad behavior.
Speaker 1: We want women to be valued along with their male peers.
Speaker 1: So we are inviting not just women, but enlightened men
Speaker 1: and those who wish to be enlightened. Do we have
Speaker 1: enlightenment in the audience? Great, because we understand in life
Speaker 1: peer to peer interaction is more impactful than someone outside
Speaker 1: the peer groups. So you have only to look. I
Speaker 1: come from sports teams when the captain of the team
Speaker 1: says do this. The players respond much more quickly than
Speaker 1: if a fan in the stands tells a player to
Speaker 1: do something. So peer to peer interaction is very powerful.
Speaker 1: So we would like to see that in times of
Speaker 1: particularly with our male allies or any allies. We understand
Speaker 1: that everybody's not going to be with us, we invite
Speaker 1: them to listen, first, learn, and then lead alongside us.
Speaker 1: We have another question from the audience. You said, we
Speaker 1: have the power to change leadership in government and companies,
Speaker 1: but how will you actually affect that change? Number One,
Speaker 1: we want folks to be civically engaged, period, full stop,
Speaker 1: whether you're a Democrat or Republican. And you want folks
Speaker 1: to be fully informed about public policy on both sides
Speaker 1: of the aisle. And at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: we as Americans have to make decisions about what type
Speaker 1: of country we want this to be. If you look
Speaker 1: back historically, we often swing from the left to the right.
Speaker 1: I'll just start with the abolition of slavery in eighteen
Speaker 1: sixty three, then reconstruction, then the Jim Crow era, so
Speaker 1: we had black skating rights. They were taken away during
Speaker 1: Jim Crow, only to be put back with the Civil
Speaker 1: rights movement. There are many insights to be learned from
Speaker 1: that history. One step forward, two steps exactly, which is
Speaker 1: why we reject the notion that the Supreme Court justice
Speaker 1: is a reflection or somehow hurtful to this movement. I
Speaker 1: actually think it's helpful to this movement. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: would I just want to add to Lisa's point about
Speaker 1: peer to peer. You know, I think it's it's crazy
Speaker 1: for any of us to think that one organization, or
Speaker 1: one movement, or one hashtag is going to change these numbers. Right,
Speaker 1: We're at an inflection point in history where we all
Speaker 1: have to ask ourselves not just am I part of
Speaker 1: the problem? But am I a part of the solution?
Speaker 1: And so many of the people sitting in this room
Speaker 1: who have access and privilege, and and and circles that
Speaker 1: they influence, really need to be asking themselves how am
Speaker 1: I part of the solution? As a woman of color,
Speaker 1: I have had to walk into every single room not
Speaker 1: as an individual, but as a representative of millions and
Speaker 1: each of us who come from these groups. Whether you
Speaker 1: are a man, whether you are a white woman in
Speaker 1: this country, you have a responsibility to speak to your
Speaker 1: peer group, to speak to us. It's not enough to say, well,
Speaker 1: I'm a wokeman. I I I have women I love
Speaker 1: and I support them and I'm good. No, it's your
Speaker 1: job to go out and to speak to other men
Speaker 1: about what you've learned and about because they're going to
Speaker 1: listen to you more than they're going to listen to us.
Speaker 1: And and the times of movement and the me too movement,
Speaker 1: and so I really do think that that is each
Speaker 1: one of our call to action in this time is
Speaker 1: not just am I on the right side, but am
Speaker 1: I doing everything that I can to influence the individuals
Speaker 1: in my life to see more, to know more, to
Speaker 1: be more a part of the solution, Because that's the
Speaker 1: only way we change one hundred and seventy million people's minds.
Speaker 1: That showing up and voting matters. You know, we have
Speaker 1: to take responsibility in our day to day lives. It's
Speaker 1: not enough to sort of put your head down on
Speaker 1: the pillow and said, well, I feel good about myself today.
Speaker 1: Well that's a great way, a great call to action
Speaker 1: and a great conversation. Why don't and would you ever
Speaker 1: run for office? Were you asking as I'm asking you?
Speaker 1: As LEASA just got a new job. You know. Um,
Speaker 1: my response to that question has always been no, no, no,
Speaker 1: But I have to to be perfectly honest. I think
Speaker 1: if every single one of us hasn't asked ourselves that
Speaker 1: question in the last you years, you're not asking yourself
Speaker 1: the right questions. Because it really is about it really
Speaker 1: is this whole movement is about balance of power and
Speaker 1: who is represented and who has a voice, and whose
Speaker 1: stories get told and who tells those stories. And and
Speaker 1: we can't just go around saying, let's make that world
Speaker 1: you know good enough for the people coming behind us
Speaker 1: to step up and take those positions of power. We
Speaker 1: have to be willing to step into those positions ourselves,
Speaker 1: and we have to acknowledge and recognize that when we
Speaker 1: have extraordinary leaders like Lisa and the and the thousands
Speaker 1: of women who are stepping up and running for office,
Speaker 1: it's our responsibility to have their backs and to support
Speaker 1: them and to show up. And I think so many
Speaker 1: people think it's this terrible thing to say, yeah, I
Speaker 1: could run for office. I think women in particular are
Speaker 1: afraid to say that. So I will say, for the
Speaker 1: first time in a public audience, that's sure, I've asked
Speaker 1: myself the question there or not I should be running
Speaker 1: for office, and I think you should be asking yourself
Speaker 1: that question. Is the answer. Yes, The answer is I
Speaker 1: have thought about it all right, so it's not all right.
Speaker 1: Lisa Borders America for thank you so much, Katie Lucki Lisa,
Speaker 1: thank you. That was Lisa Borders and America Ferrera. And
Speaker 1: a big thank you to everyone at the Vanity Fair
Speaker 1: New Establishments Summit for inviting me to moderate that panel.
Speaker 1: It was a great conference. I also want to thank
Speaker 1: our team at Stitcher, our producer Emma Morgenstern, our associate
Speaker 1: producer Nora Richie, and of course Jared O'Connell, our trustee engineer.
Speaker 1: A big shout out as well to our team at
Speaker 1: Katie Currict Media, Beth Demas, my fabulous assistant who has
Speaker 1: the hardest job on the planet, and Julia Lewis, who
Speaker 1: helps me with all of my social media, which keeps
Speaker 1: her very busy as well. What an exhausting job that
Speaker 1: must be anyway. Mark Phillips composed our theme music. You
Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter under at Goldsmith b and
Speaker 1: you can find Katie almost anywhere on the internet as
Speaker 1: Katie Kirk, particularly those Instagram stories which have gone so viral,
Speaker 1: they're so fascinating. If you have thoughts about our show
Speaker 1: or questions for Brian and me, please reach out, particularly
Speaker 1: if you have questions about the upcoming mid term elections,
Speaker 1: because we're going to do a podcast devoted to understanding
Speaker 1: what's at stake and why it's so important to vote.
Speaker 1: Our email address is comments at current podcast dot com,
Speaker 1: or you can leave a voicemail for us by calling
Speaker 1: nine to four four six three seven. As always, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for listening, and Brian, bye bye. That's
Speaker 1: my best John McLaughlin impression mold on and for those
Speaker 1: of you under thirty, just google John McLaughlin