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Speaker 1: Hell though, and welcome to Savor Production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 1: I'm Annie Reese and I'm more in Vocal Balm. And

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Speaker 1: today we have an episode for you about no alcohol beers,

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Speaker 1: no and low alcohol beers. Yes, yes, yes, yes yes,

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Speaker 1: and I'm excited about this one. Did you have any

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Speaker 1: particular reason for choosing this topic? Did I? I feel

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Speaker 1: like the answer every time ism, which could have been anything.

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Speaker 1: I chose it three days ago. Wasn't tired then past.

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Speaker 1: It feels that way. It feels that way. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that I was. I think it was kind of

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Speaker 1: like time in my rotation for for another beverage, and

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Speaker 1: I was looking into a few different types of beers.

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Speaker 1: And I did not want to study medieval European beer law.

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Speaker 1: I just didn't want to. I didn't want to intensely

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Speaker 1: at all, um, like like mid medieval going up through

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Speaker 1: like the Industrial Revolution, like I couldn't this week. So um,

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Speaker 1: so it's like, what about non alcoholic beer? Yeah, totally legitimate. Also,

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Speaker 1: I've been I've been getting more into trying um products

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Speaker 1: from this category recently, um partially you know, like I've

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Speaker 1: just been trying to cut down on my on my

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Speaker 1: alcohol intake and um one of our one of our

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Speaker 1: good work friends, uh, super producer Miranda Um has been

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Speaker 1: on a on a sober kick lately, and a bunch

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Speaker 1: of my other friends have as well. Actually so um

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Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I've just been been curious about it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: me too. So my younger brother doesn't drink. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things I feel like doing the research for this,

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Speaker 1: there are several things I want to try. Number one,

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Speaker 1: I found something called hot water. I really really want

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Speaker 1: to try it, Okay, but also business idea for anybody

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta I can't find, like every time he comes

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Speaker 1: to hang out with me, I try to find low

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Speaker 1: alcohol new alcohol beers and it's hard. It's surprisingly hard,

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Speaker 1: even for like bigger things. It has become easier recently,

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Speaker 1: and I will like caveat this. I shop at a

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Speaker 1: very small grocery store. Um. But also the liquor store

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Speaker 1: doesn't have that I go to, which kind of makes sense,

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Speaker 1: but also I feel like they should have a non

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Speaker 1: alcohol so I should. Yeah, and it's not it's not

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Speaker 1: robust at all. And also like I'm very careful with

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Speaker 1: him about like what kind of flavor are you actually

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Speaker 1: looking for? Endeavor? Um? But that being said, I think

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Speaker 1: it would be cool if there was a store in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta that like specialized in this because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of stuff now ow there didn't used to be, but

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of stuff now. Oh yeah, that you

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Speaker 1: could have a lot of options. I think that would

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Speaker 1: be really cool absolutely. Um yeah it is. It is

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Speaker 1: difficult to find around Atlanta. Um. And we'll be talking

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Speaker 1: about this a little bit later on too. But um,

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Speaker 1: A place that I've had good luck, like a like

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Speaker 1: a store that you can go to in Atlanta that

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Speaker 1: I've had good luck finding stuff out is Elemental uh

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Speaker 1: Distribution Company. It's a spit there you go, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you. Um. Yeah, they're they're on the corner with

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Speaker 1: a with Manuel's tavern um in the Virginia Highlands. And

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Speaker 1: they've got a few options for uh in a um

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Speaker 1: uh the cores and wines and I think they've got

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Speaker 1: a couple of beers as well. Um. But yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: difficult to find in bars to like like places will

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Speaker 1: have like one option maybe maybe too if you're like

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Speaker 1: super lucky. Yeah, but and even that is super recent,

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Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, it has changed a lot, and we're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about that through the course of this episode. Um,

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Speaker 1: and you can see our past episodes on beer, yes,

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Speaker 1: of which there have been many. Also the interview we

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Speaker 1: did with Julia Bainbridge on non alcoholic cocktails and drinks. Yes, right,

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Speaker 1: and the beautiful book that she put out in the

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Speaker 1: intervening time period called Good Drinks. Yes, yes, but okay

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Speaker 1: in the meantime, I guess this brings us to all question.

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Speaker 1: It does no and low alcohol beers? What are they? Well? Uh,

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Speaker 1: low and no alcohol beers are beers brewed to have

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Speaker 1: no or low alcohol content? Yeah? There their beverages that

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Speaker 1: have similar ingredients as regular role alcoholic beers and usually

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Speaker 1: go through a very similar brewing process, but then extra

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Speaker 1: steps are taken to remove most or all of the

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Speaker 1: alcohol and preserve or create the flavor and carbonation that

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Speaker 1: you would get from regular beer. Legally speaking, here in

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Speaker 1: the United States, you're looking for something with an alcohol

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Speaker 1: content of less than a one half of one percent,

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Speaker 1: yeah zero. If you don't get it quite right, the

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Speaker 1: result can be kind of like flat in both taste

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Speaker 1: and texture. But at its best, you know it's a

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Speaker 1: beer without the alcohol content, fizzy and balanced with sweet

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Speaker 1: grains and bitter hops and complex yeast flavors. Uh. You

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Speaker 1: know it's not going to have the same alcohol burn

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Speaker 1: or sting or heat as an alcoholic beer. But it's

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Speaker 1: like a beer. M my most poetic I know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you ain't wrong, but I guess the bigger question in

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Speaker 1: hare is but how um? And Okay, before we get

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Speaker 1: into the how of making a beer not alcoholic, let's

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Speaker 1: do a quick rundown of how to make a beer alcoholic. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: to make beer, you take roasted grains and then heat

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Speaker 1: them in water that's warp and then you ferment the

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Speaker 1: wart with yeast. These yeasts eat some of the sugars

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Speaker 1: from the grains and poop alcohol and carbon dioxide and

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Speaker 1: flavor um at yeast poop. Yeah. Um. You probably also

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Speaker 1: add some hops at some point during this process. Hops

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Speaker 1: are the flower of this climbing plant that add flavors,

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Speaker 1: especially better flavors and super bonus, inhibit the growth of

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Speaker 1: unwanted microorganisms, especially bacteria, in your beer. They also help

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Speaker 1: stabilize a beer's foam. Um. Still need to do a

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Speaker 1: whole other episode on hops, yes, yes, uh, And then

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Speaker 1: you might add other stuff to help flavor your beer.

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Speaker 1: Fruit herbs more other yeasts or bacteria that poop more

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Speaker 1: other flavors whatever. So uh, that's how beer works. Um.

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Speaker 1: You can make low alcohol beer by simply stopping the

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Speaker 1: fermentation process before very much alcohol is created. There are

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Speaker 1: also modified strains of yeasts that don't digest moltose so

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Speaker 1: they don't produce alcohol, or strains that produce alcohol like

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Speaker 1: really slowly. Um, but you're also not letting very much

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Speaker 1: flavor or carbonation develop in those cases. Uh So, most

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Speaker 1: non alcoholic beer goes through the full brewing process. But

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Speaker 1: then then you get the alcohol out in one of

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Speaker 1: a couple different ways. The easiest way is to heat

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Speaker 1: it out. Uh. So everything has a different boiling point, right, Um.

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Speaker 1: Alcohol's boiling point is about a hundred and seventy three fahrenheit.

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Speaker 1: That's seventy eight celsius, much lower than the boiling point

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Speaker 1: of water. So easy, you heat your beer two alcohol's

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Speaker 1: boiling point, that alcohol releases his gas, you have non

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Speaker 1: alcoholic beer. However, Um, the problems here are that are

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Speaker 1: that some of the flavor compounds in beer are alcohol soluble,

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Speaker 1: so when you boil off the alcohol, that will take

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Speaker 1: them out as well, which really just means that you

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Speaker 1: have to recapture them later and add them back in.

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Speaker 1: But be more complicated. Lee heating or reheating your beer

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Speaker 1: enough to boil out the alcohol can break down or

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Speaker 1: alter your flavor compounds in ways that will make the

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Speaker 1: final product taste like not beer. Mm hmm yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: So the workaround here is to rig physics so that

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Speaker 1: you can boil the alcohol off at a lower temperature. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and you do that by lowering the pressure by

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Speaker 1: puting the brew into a vacuum chamber. Uh, because at

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Speaker 1: lower pressures, the boiling points of stuff are lower. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The exact pressure you go down to, and thus the

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Speaker 1: boiling point you go down to depends on your equipment. Um. Generally,

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Speaker 1: the lower it can go, the more expensive the equipment is.

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Speaker 1: I've read about temperatures for this process ranging from like

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Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty fahrenheight all the way down to

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Speaker 1: eighty fahrenheight. Um, that's forty nine to c h. So

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Speaker 1: this more gently cooks the alcohol out, and then you

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Speaker 1: can recapture those alcohol soluble flavor compounds and add them

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Speaker 1: back in. Yeah. So that is the vacuum distillation method

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Speaker 1: of an a beer. The other main method you can

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Speaker 1: use is filtration also called reverse osmosis. UM. In this process,

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Speaker 1: you take your beer and then you force it using

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Speaker 1: applied pressure through ultrafine filters like so fine that only

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Speaker 1: molecule of alcohol and water can pass through them because

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Speaker 1: they're so tiny. Um. Pretty much all the other stuff

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Speaker 1: that the flavor stuff gets trapped. Uh. You can then

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Speaker 1: take your alcoholic water, boil out the alcohol like the

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Speaker 1: normal boiling temperature, and add the flavor stuff back into

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Speaker 1: the resulting plane water. This is like a little bit

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Speaker 1: fancier uh and more expensive than vacuum distillation. Either way,

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Speaker 1: You're probably going to need to add carbonation at the

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Speaker 1: end of this de alcoholization process because those bubbles have

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Speaker 1: not survived the process. UH, So you carbonate it like

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Speaker 1: you would a soda. UM. This can also add like

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Speaker 1: a slightly sour or metallic taste to it, um that

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Speaker 1: you have to take into consideration. You might also doctor

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Speaker 1: the flavor a little more at the end of this process. Uh.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, just as there are thousands of types of beer,

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Speaker 1: you can make non alcoholic beer with any number of

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Speaker 1: grains and yeasts and hops and resulting flavors. UH. A

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Speaker 1: couple of decades ago, there was like a really pervasive concept,

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Speaker 1: especially here in the States, that nonalcoholic beer is like

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Speaker 1: flat and terrible all the time. Um, but brewers are

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Speaker 1: producing some like really good ones these days. Um. The

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Speaker 1: kind that I found that I found that I like

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Speaker 1: in my recent adventures has been uh Brooklyn Brewery are

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Speaker 1: making some really good ones. Yeah, okay, yeah. Um. Of

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Speaker 1: course these methods all result in something that does have

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Speaker 1: a negligible amount of alcohol. Um. I mean it's not

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Speaker 1: a lot of alcohol, but it's still some amount of alcohol.

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Speaker 1: So they're not suitable for everyone. Um. So I guess

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Speaker 1: you know, this brings us back to what we said

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Speaker 1: in uh in that episode with with Julia on Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you offer someone to drink and they

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Speaker 1: don't want it, believe them, offer them something else. It's fine.

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Speaker 1: It's totally fine and very polite and kind, which drive

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Speaker 1: to be at any rate, right, Yes, unless they're a

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Speaker 1: terrible person, in case I would not recommend giving them

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Speaker 1: a drink they don't want, but you don't want to

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Speaker 1: be polite to them they're anyway, that's neither here nor there. Um.

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Speaker 1: I do love all of the science approach to this

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Speaker 1: is fascinating. M Well, but what about the nutrition. This

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Speaker 1: is normally the part where I would say drink responsibly,

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Speaker 1: but you are so bizarre. Um. Alcohol is a calorie

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Speaker 1: dense um substance, and so removing the alcohol um from

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Speaker 1: a from a beverage is going to leave you with

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Speaker 1: a lower calorie beverage. But there are still you know,

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Speaker 1: some some sugars and stuff that are going on in there.

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Speaker 1: So uh, I mean it's not a it's not a

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Speaker 1: health food. Um, it's it's some some of it is

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Speaker 1: being marketed as a health food, which I think is silly. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, in general, you should aim to not drink

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Speaker 1: your calories when possible. Um. But yes, it is a

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Speaker 1: more reasonable option calorie wise than like a sugared soda pop.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean, you know, always check your labels.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you know what you're going into. Yeah. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess that that brings me back to drink responsibly. Sure. Always. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we do have some numbers for you, we do, okay. So, oh, Duels,

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Speaker 1: which I would guess many of you have heard of,

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Speaker 1: is the best selling non alcohol non alcohol beer in

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Speaker 1: the United States, but it's getting a lot more competition. Um.

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Speaker 1: Not only from huge brands like Heineken, Cores Miller, and

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Speaker 1: Guinness and interestingly Coca Cola. Yeah, I was fascinated by that.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, yeah, Coca Cola is entering the fray, but

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Speaker 1: also craft breweries too, and we're gonna talk at that

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Speaker 1: some more in the history part. Um. And yes, I

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Speaker 1: know some of those are owned by the same company.

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Speaker 1: Don't at me, but I do think. You know, if

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Speaker 1: you don't know that and you've just got some brand loyalty, uh,

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Speaker 1: then you're seeing like, oh, Heineken has one, Guinness has one,

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Speaker 1: of course has one. Oh Miller has one. Um, that

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Speaker 1: kind of thing. Yeah, yes, And the non alcoholic beer

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Speaker 1: market has gone through an explosion of growth recently. As

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Speaker 1: a non alcoholic beer made up only two percent of

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Speaker 1: the American beer market, coming out at about twenty seven

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Speaker 1: million dollars, but by twenty nineteen, retail sales were up

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Speaker 1: twenty three percent, breaking in about one fifty one million dollars.

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Speaker 1: That's huge. Um by six market analysts predict that this

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Speaker 1: market will be worth six point four billion dollars billion,

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Speaker 1: with a b in North of America and twenty nine

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Speaker 1: billion dollars globally. Yeah. Um. The pandemic years have seen

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Speaker 1: a really big boom in this category. In the United States,

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Speaker 1: sales were up thirty eight percent in Yeah, and America

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Speaker 1: is not alone in this, but we are in fact

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Speaker 1: a little behind the curve on this one compared to

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Speaker 1: other countries like Germany, because from eleven to sixteen, non

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Speaker 1: alcoholic beer consumption jumped by for in that country. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In sixteen, almost thirty percent of new beers launched in

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Speaker 1: China or non alcoholic. Uh. Yeah. As of one UM,

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Speaker 1: non alcoholic beers were ten percent of the market in

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Speaker 1: Sweden um and in Spain they were fourteen So big.

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Speaker 1: And the global market as of two is worth about

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Speaker 1: twenty billion dollars UM and it's expected it's expected to

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Speaker 1: double to like sally, more than double over the next

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Speaker 1: ten years. Wow. Wow. Uh. There is a little beer

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Speaker 1: festival that I found in Duluth, Georgia. Yeah, interested in that,

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Speaker 1: interested in that. But yes, we do have a lot

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Speaker 1: of interesting history at how we reached this point that

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Speaker 1: we are at right now. Yeah, we do, and we

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Speaker 1: are going to get into that as soon as we

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Speaker 1: get back from a quick break for a word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsors, So we're back, Thank you. Sponsor. Yes, thank you,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to start this one like we start

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Speaker 1: every episode we do on beer. So beer is like

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Speaker 1: ancient yeah, not not new. Um Like, best estimate is

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Speaker 1: that beer has been around for some ten thousand years

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Speaker 1: maybe more. Um. Like, the theory goes that making beer

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Speaker 1: was the impetus for humans to move away from hunting

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Speaker 1: gathering and into organized agriculture. Wow, like like we we

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Speaker 1: hadn't come up with the wheel yet, but we already

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Speaker 1: had beer. Every time we say it, and every time

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Speaker 1: I'm a little shocked. Yeah, yeah, quite a fact. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So the history of non or low alcohol beers goes

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Speaker 1: back to at least medieval Europe, though I suspect they

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Speaker 1: are much older. Um. These small beers, as they were called,

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Speaker 1: were brewed with just a little alcohol to kill the

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Speaker 1: bacteria often present in drinking water at the time. And

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Speaker 1: while they may have been meant for the working man,

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Speaker 1: and in fact workers were paid with these beers, sometimes

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Speaker 1: people of all types strength them because they were at

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Speaker 1: the time safer than water. Yeah, small beers would have

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Speaker 1: had like two point five to three point five percent

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Speaker 1: alcohol content. Um. You might have made them by employing

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Speaker 1: a short brewing time, or you might have done like

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Speaker 1: a second run of beer off of a single grain mash,

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Speaker 1: um and and the lower number of sugars left in

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Speaker 1: the mash at that point would have produced less alcohol

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Speaker 1: in the final product. And it was popular um all

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Speaker 1: all over um up through up through the eighteen hundreds

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Speaker 1: and nineteen hundreds. Even um there are like recipes from

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Speaker 1: George Washington's estate for making these low alcohol beers um

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Speaker 1: with evidence that it was being distributed to uh to

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Speaker 1: servants and enslaved people and children um where and and

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Speaker 1: and and troops um where like more alcoholic beer was

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Speaker 1: considered uh too fancy for them or too drinking for them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like it have impact their work or some share yeah

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Speaker 1: right UM. Perhaps obvious non alcoholic or low alcohol beers

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Speaker 1: rose in popularity in the United States during Prohibition, when

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Speaker 1: the vol Said Act limited the alcohol content of all

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Speaker 1: beverages to point five per cent. In order to stay afloat,

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Speaker 1: many breweries pivoted towards making so called tonics that met

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Speaker 1: these requirements. AH. Jumping ahead. Vacuum distillation hit the scene

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen eighties, UM, which really expanded the possibilities

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Speaker 1: for brewers looking to make non alcoholic beer and then

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Speaker 1: stepping back because we're not constrained by the laws of

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Speaker 1: time in this episode. No no, uh. Anhuser Busch was

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Speaker 1: founded in eighteen fifty two. Okay, so that's a far

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Speaker 1: back date. Yeah, but based on our current trajectory, our

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Speaker 1: currentte year, over thirty years ago they started offering a

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Speaker 1: nonalcoholic beer. You have probably heard of, Oh Duels Um,

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Speaker 1: which launched with a nationwide ad campaign in nine with

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Speaker 1: the slogan the taste will when you over. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I did that very well, but you get the point.

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Speaker 1: And also Old Duels for every occasion. I really didn't

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Speaker 1: do that one well, but you get that point. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's there's like an oh apostrophe. Yeah, it's occasion anyway. Yeah, anyway.

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Speaker 1: It was brew traditionally with the alcohol removed at the end,

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Speaker 1: rendering it two point four A b v H. Miller

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Speaker 1: Cores launched non alcoholic options under their Becks and Cores brands.

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Speaker 1: In Heineken launched one, and I think that, ironically, the

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Speaker 1: craft beer explosion of the nineties and early two thousand's

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Speaker 1: moving through to today really paved the way for non

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Speaker 1: alcoholic beers to to come back. Um, because you have

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Speaker 1: this expanse of categories UM and a wider willingness to

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Speaker 1: to try new or different brewis and a capacity for

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Speaker 1: smaller producers to try new things. Absolutely totally agree and

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Speaker 1: going off of that uh no, no or low alcohol

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Speaker 1: beers are experiencing a real renaissance right now, and there

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Speaker 1: are several reasons for that. For one thing, yes, this

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Speaker 1: craft beer boom. With that, it made sense that brews

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Speaker 1: would want to offer a craft nonalcoholic option as well.

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Speaker 1: Another big reason health. According to a twenty nineteen Vox article,

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Speaker 1: almost of global consumers reported wanting to cut back on

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Speaker 1: alcohol consumption for health reasons. The other is technology. Uh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Non Alcoholic beer has long been hounded by the understanding

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Speaker 1: right or room that removing the alcohol hall removed the flavor,

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Speaker 1: coupled with the harmful thinking that it was for a

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Speaker 1: week heavy quotes people who weren't cool. Uh and also

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Speaker 1: that nonalcoholic options should be cheaper, despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: production cost is often about the same, if not probably

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Speaker 1: slightly higher due to those extra stats you have to

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Speaker 1: take right exactly recent innovations and things like yes, filtration techniques,

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Speaker 1: vacuum evaporation and other things in that vein that allow

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Speaker 1: brewers to extract alcohol without negatively impacting the taste. Has

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Speaker 1: really allowed for a lot more a lot more options

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Speaker 1: that I would say. I was looking through the options

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Speaker 1: today and I was there's just so much. There's just

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Speaker 1: so much, which is fantastic. It's really it's really exciting.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited devetailing with all of this. Since about in

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Speaker 1: the US and other places, there has been a rise

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Speaker 1: in sober or sober curious social spaces and restaurants expanding

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Speaker 1: their nonalcoholic beverage options. Uh. And to be clear, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who drink nonalcoholic beers still drink alcohol.

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Speaker 1: They just want to balance it out sometimes to keep

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Speaker 1: drinking without getting drunk after they've already had one or

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Speaker 1: two that have alcohol. This is something that my mom does,

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Speaker 1: like she'll switch to a nonalcoholic option. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's partially at this point a matter of right

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Speaker 1: of getting these beverages distributed. Um, you know, non alcoholic

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Speaker 1: beers and wines, as we were talking about at the

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Speaker 1: top of the show, are still like a specialty purchase

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Speaker 1: in the United States. Um, and right, Like I do

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Speaker 1: know a few places around Atlanta where you can get

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Speaker 1: a couple, but like they're not in bars or supermarkets

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Speaker 1: the way that alcoholic wine and beer are certainly not

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta at any rate. UM So right, yeah, like

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Speaker 1: like like y'all right in UM and let experiences with this.

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Speaker 1: I'm really curious we also also, I will say, like,

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Speaker 1: there's there's a we got an ad askin the other

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Speaker 1: day for a company that does uh distribute non alcoholic

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Speaker 1: beers and wines and other beverages. Um. So I'm curious

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Speaker 1: to see if that winds up being an extremely well

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Speaker 1: placed and completely coincidental ad in this episode. If it does.

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Speaker 1: They were not a sponsor at of this episode at

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Speaker 1: that time. UM just just a thing that we're interested

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Speaker 1: in talking about. UM at any rate. A couple of

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Speaker 1: couple more timeline things for you in A professional group

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Speaker 1: called the Adult Non Alcoholic Beverage Association started up to

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Speaker 1: help write build this segment of the industry. As of

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Speaker 1: January two, they had over fifty members, including seventeen brewers,

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Speaker 1: and in February of this year, researchers out of Denmark

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Speaker 1: published this study about a method of producing hop flavor

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Speaker 1: molecules use UM using yeast colonies. Uh, and they specifically

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Speaker 1: earmarked it as something that could be added at the

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Speaker 1: end of making non alcoholic beer to make it taste

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Speaker 1: more beer e Uh. It's also a lot cheaper and

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Speaker 1: like less resource intensive than growing hops in general, so

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Speaker 1: I could see it having a lot of market applications.

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Speaker 1: Although who I do not want to I am. I

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Speaker 1: am putting up my hands defensively. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: mess with your hops. If you're I'm not here. I'm

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Speaker 1: not here to take your hops, y'all Like I thought, Hm, No,

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Speaker 1: I would not. I would not dare UM. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: this this process using using yeaster or bacterial colonies is

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Speaker 1: how a lot of flavors are already produced um in

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Speaker 1: in the in the food industry, and so I think

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be really interesting to see what people do

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Speaker 1: with this development. UM. And whether I didn't read I

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Speaker 1: didn't I didn't read the full scientific article UM that

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Speaker 1: they published about it, So I'm not sure. Uh whether

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Speaker 1: the anti microbial properties that you're partially brewing with hops

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Speaker 1: in order to get UM, I'm not sure whether that

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Speaker 1: is part of part of these flavor molecules or not

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Speaker 1: um so, so I don't know. I don't know, but

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to learn more. Me too, me too. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: as you said, listeners, if you've got any suggestions, uh

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Speaker 1: information about how it is in your area, we would

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Speaker 1: love to recommendations for different brands. Yeah, yes, but in

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Speaker 1: the meantime, I think that's what we have to say

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Speaker 1: on this topic for now. It is. We do have

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Speaker 1: some listener mail for you prepared, but first we've got

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Speaker 1: one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponds, Yes, thank you, and

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Speaker 1: we're back with lovely time. Yeah yeah, yeah, Well we

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Speaker 1: have to letters about espresso, okay, and I think we

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Speaker 1: have some more coming. There were a lot of thoughts

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00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: about espresso usually oh indeed, indeed John wrote, So it

402
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: was the nineties. A number of us were at a

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Speaker 1: martini bar in Norfolk, Virginia. There was an espresso martini

404
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Speaker 1: on the menu. Being a caffeine addict, I ordered one,

405
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: so wonderful. Being a trained investigator, I finangled the recipe

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Speaker 1: from the bartender. Over the years, I refined the recipe.

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Speaker 1: I would make it literally by the gallon for our

408
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Speaker 1: yearly Smiss party and the recipe wasn't closed a talent. Heck. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that reminds me of a good friend and co worker

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Speaker 1: Alex egg nog, which we've talked about his egg no

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Speaker 1: aggressive he does every year, but I think he does

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Speaker 1: it by like it's a lot. It's quite a bit

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00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: of eggnog. Yeah. And also the speaking of the Washington Estate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: by the way, if you write if you if you

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Speaker 1: want to make Washington's eggnog or uh they're small beer,

416
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,640
Speaker 1: then those recipes are available on the internet, you can

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00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: you can go find him. Um yeah, and home brewis

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Speaker 1: I read a lot of articles about homebrewing a non alcoholic,

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Speaker 1: low alcoholic beers. So I would love if any of

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Speaker 1: you were doing that, if you were, Yeah, yeah, totally Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Homebrewing is so cool, okay, right dangerous from that's why

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Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to do it. That's I've also like

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Speaker 1: I've I I think I picked like my my one

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00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: overly expensive chemistry experiment for my house, and that is

425
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 1: keeping an aquarium. Um don't and it's like way less

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00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: likely to explode then beer is, I mean hard? Say

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00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 1: what are you feeding those snails? Lauren? It's a fifth

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00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: fire this week and then my snail, My snails have

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00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 1: never caught fire. I'm glad to hear that as well,

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00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: aren't saying very relieved? My goodness? Oh heck um okay, alright, alright,

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00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 1: ostensibly a food show, here we go. Brittany wrote, I

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00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: recently listened to your espresso episode and it brought back

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00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: some fantastic memories for me of a trip to Italy.

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00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: One of the things you mentioned was the government fixing

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00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: the price of espresso. The first night we were in Rome,

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00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: we did a food tour best way to learn a

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00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,959
Speaker 1: new city. Agree um uh, and our host told us

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00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: that the government does fix the price of a cup

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00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: of espresso. However, the restaurants are allowed to charge you

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00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: for a sitting fee, So in the touristy parts of town,

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00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: the espresso maybe one euro or whatever it is, and

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00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,680
Speaker 1: the sitting fee for that espresso is ten euros or more.

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00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: There's no regulation on this charge. This is why you

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00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: don't see Italians sitting down to drink their espressos. We

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00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: got a good laugh a few days later when we

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00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: were exploring and wandering around Rome and decided to grab

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00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 1: an espresso. We walked into a coffee shop and put

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00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: in our order. The person behind the counter kept trying

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00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: to get us to sit down at their table, no

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00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,719
Speaker 1: matter how many times we told him that we were

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00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: good standing. He only gave up when we paid for

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00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: our drinks. We were very thankful for that tip from

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00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: our food tour host. It's a good tip. Wow, I

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00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: felt hilarious. I forgot about fees. I when I was

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00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 1: in London the first time I paid a pretty substantial

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00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: sitting fee for a kebab. Yeah, and I didn't realize

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00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: what was going on. It was like the menu says

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00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: the kebab is like four pounds. Oh yeah, why am

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00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: I paying pounds? Yeah? Yeah, okay, I'm bough, he wrote

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00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: in that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, that totally clears up

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00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: for me, Like the the intense opinion that um that

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00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: I've read that like you don't sit down to drink espresso,

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00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: like you kind of shoot it and you move on

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00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: your way. Yeah, you're right, it's all coming together. That's great,

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00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: that's great. I love I don't know why I just

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00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 1: got so happy about the fleecing of Tourists's terrible, but

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00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, human human innovation find a

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00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: way to make more money off of each other. Yeah,

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00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: yeah and all. As always, thank you listeners for answering

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00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: the call and solving these mysteries for us. Yes, uh

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00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 1: and yeah. Thanks to both of these listeners for writing.

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00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: If you'd like to write to us that you can

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00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: or email us hello at saborpod dot com. We're also

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00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,

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00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to

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00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: hear from you. Sabor is production of I Heart Radio.

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00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: For more podcasts to my heart Radio, you can visit

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00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our

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00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: superproducers Bill and Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you

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00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: for listening, and we hope that lots more good things

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00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: are coming your way