WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Who settled the New World first? 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:15.840 Thinking Sideways. I don't think you never know. The story 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:21.400 is of things synthy don't know the answer too. Hey everybody, 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:24.960 and welcome back to the podcast Thinking Sideways. The podcast 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:27.640 is the one that we are, not the other one 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:30.120 you were looking at and decided not to download. You 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.640 made the right choice. They are losers. I am Steve 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.720 as always, joined by my co host Joe and Devin. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:41.839 So this week we're going to talk about a story 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.560 that a lot of people probably know, but they may 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.920 not realize how much debate there is around it. And 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.800 it's it's a story that is who are the first 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:58.720 people to settle the new world and to colonize it? Yeah, 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.440 hot off the heels of our October sleigh fast, just 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:04.240 like taking a little bit of I think you know 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.119 my next episode is going to be a little weird, 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:12.280 too different, not full of stabbing, And there is very 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.920 little stabbing in this so yeah, very little of it. 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:19.240 Uh So why don't we just go ahead and hop 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:24.480 right into it? So as everybody knows Columbus sale the 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.559 ocean blue. Actually that's not where we're going. We're going 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:33.080 much farther back in time. We're gonna travel at least 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:38.640 eleven to twenty some odd thousand years before today, somewhere 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:40.400 in that rage and uh, and of course, you know, 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.080 like we're gonna get in all of this, but who 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:45.440 knows humans might have arrived on this on this continent 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.040 fifty years ago. It's it's hard to say. And and 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:52.000 and that's a that's a good point to bring up, Joe. Normally, 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.320 as anybody's listening to the show before knows, we always 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:57.320 kind of try to tell the story and then we 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.640 talk about the theories and then we kind of hash 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.400 them out. But in this case, it's not really a 0:02:01.480 --> 0:02:08.120 story all theories. So this is entirely the theory section. 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.680 And be prepared for a lot of science, you guys, Yeah, 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:13.919 there's there's a lot of science. I did a lot 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:18.640 of googling to figure out what words meant, specific words. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:23.720 I've never even heard that word. Yeah, oh, thank you Google. 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:25.639 We're not going to get too heavily into the boring 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:28.919 details of DNA analysis and stuff. Now. We're gonna keep 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:32.079 this at a high level because if we tried to 0:02:32.120 --> 0:02:35.160 go into this, this would be an eight hour discussion 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:40.880 if we really broke down into series archaeological nerd um, 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:45.800 which we just because yeah, but let's just say when 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.240 when Columbus arrived here, there were indigenous people and maybe 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:50.960 not all of you knew this, but there were indigenous 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:54.000 people here. Uh yeah, when I was a kid, actually 0:02:54.080 --> 0:02:57.920 there was like you know, it's like a Columbus arrived 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.040 here and made friends with the Indians and took some 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.480 of them back to Spain with them for Spain. You know. 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:05.160 It's of course, I guess he really took him back 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:10.600 as slaves. But yeah, well, the Columbus himself is a 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:13.639 whole another story, and it's kind of a funny thing 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:16.440 is there's a little bit of debate about what Columbus 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:18.480 was doing and where he was going. And that's how 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.480 I came across this as I was doing some research 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.800 on Columbus and then I started discovering a bunch of 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.240 this prehistory and that's where this whole story has has 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.640 germinated from. Yeah, well, as a just a quick aside 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:34.480 if you guys wanted to read a good book, and 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.320 that's not just YouTube but our listeners to I can't 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:38.880 remember the author, but the name of the book is 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.200 the Last Voyage of Columbus, because because he came to 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:43.320 the New World four times, it was a four. I 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:45.840 thought was three. It was four times, yeah, and Joe 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:50.040 would know he was there. And anyways, the so they 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:53.320 went to some amazing, harrowing adventures, including having to sink 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.480 their ship almost sank from underneath them. They had to 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.360 beach it on a desert island in the Caribbean, and 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:59.800 they were marooned for a year, and they went to 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:01.720 a lot more harrowing things than that. You just got 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:03.480 to read the book, but it was amazing. All the 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:05.880 tribulations they want to Oh, no, I know Columbus is 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.000 an interesting guy, and there may be at some point 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.080 if I can get enough information on what I was 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.080 going after, we may do something on Columbus. But let's 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.880 get back to the topic at hand of settled the 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:18.440 New World. First, So what we're gonna do here is 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.760 we're gonna start with our first theory, which I think 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:25.960 is the basis for what most people know, and it is, uh, 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:29.120 the Baryngia. I believe it's how you say it, Barringian 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:33.040 theory because it's the bearing straight I a on the end, 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:36.080 so I said it's Berenga. Brengia was like, I guess 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:39.160 the area include the land bridge plus parts of Alaska 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.479 and the northeast Asia. Yeah, yeah, something like that. You're 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.880 a little ahead, but that's fine. What Joe is getting 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:49.400 at is that sometime during the last ice Age, which 0:04:50.440 --> 0:04:54.520 is this is an approximate number, about seventeen thousand years ago, 0:04:55.400 --> 0:05:00.000 the ice sheets across the planet had swollen, an advanced 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.479 anston sucked up all the sea water, so of course 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.760 the sea levels dropped, and the first people were able 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:10.960 to go from the European continent on where it is 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:15.400 now modern day Russia. The old U s SR travel 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:20.600 a spit of land to the continental US via Alaska, 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.919 and that that is called Eurasia. That chunker ground is 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.280 called Eurasia, which is now underneath the burying straight. Yeah. 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:30.719 Actually I think Eurasia is is Europe and Asia. Right, Oh, 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.520 you're right. I'm sorry. They went from Eurasia across. That 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:36.840 would be why it's bury in Ngia, which I'm not 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.120 going to keep saying, you know, I'm screwing it up. 0:05:40.360 --> 0:05:43.200 I've got to say that. But that's aside that there 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.720 must have been a hardy, hearty souls. I was about 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:48.520 to say hearty mother, but I was heard they must 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.560 have been very hearty soul and we're gonna get into 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.240 some of the stuff about that. So you're gonna we're 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.800 gonna talk about that some. Uh So here's here's what 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.039 the theory goes. And this is again it's probably the 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.520 one that we've all learned in school, is that it 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:05.520 was nomadic hunters who were chasing game herds that were 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.120 in Siberia and they chased it across that land bridge 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:14.160 and got into Alaska, and then eventually they spread south 0:06:14.279 --> 0:06:18.760 through Canada and then into what is now the United States, 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.320 and that eventually would make their way into South America. 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:26.440 They made their way through a gap in the glaciers 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.479 that ran through I want to see it through Alberta, 0:06:29.560 --> 0:06:31.960 but I might be wrong. I might have that wrong. 0:06:32.040 --> 0:06:35.200 But there was basically a giant split between the two 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:37.800 icebergs and there was dry land that was probably what 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:40.839 we call the Rocky Mountains. It might have been, I'm 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.200 not positive, but you know that that allows plant life 0:06:44.200 --> 0:06:47.000 to grow, which then attracts the animals, which then of 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:50.120 course the humans would follow, and then that would dump 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:54.279 out them out into the plains of the central United States. 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:57.000 So this is where they're supposed to go. So this 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:59.400 is also called in this is the easier name the 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:03.039 land Bridge theory, which I think is what I'm gonna use. 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:07.440 The idea of first came into existence in fifteen ninety 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:10.760 h and it's from a Jesuit scholar in his name 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:17.520 is Jose de Acosta, and he he postulated that this 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.280 is how people would have made it to what they 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:25.360 had deemed the New World. And now scientific research has 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:29.000 gone on and they figure that these big game hunters 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:33.920 would have crossed the Bearing Street something sometime between twelve 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:39.400 to eleven thousand years ago, somewhere in that range is 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.320 when they would have done it. Yeah, or they or 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.560 they could have done it sometime in the in the 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.600 far more in the more distant past too, apparently apparently 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:49.160 crossing it there was a there was a couple of 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.560 different windows in which to class and yeah, I mean 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:56.440 it's swelled sets. And that's that's some of the theories 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.360 farther on. But you know, let's let's keep running with 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.360 the the the most common one, and actually the large 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:07.800 scale migration of of humans into North America coin size 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:13.680 with what the mass extinction of like the wooly mammoth. Yeah, 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:17.440 the big massive immigration probably did take place at about 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:20.680 that time, and there is evidence to that. But there's 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.480 also some climate things that were going on, you know, 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.800 the suddenly the icebergers starting to melt, global temperatures coming up. 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:32.080 Mascodons who are big, hairy, hairy creatures are in warmer environments, 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:34.120 they're not going to live as long. But that's that's 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:39.120 a whole another rabbit hole that we could go down. Yeah, 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:43.280 but the point is is that you know, they would 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.720 have crossed on foot and they would have been walking 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:51.640 across that that land bridge to make it to that 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.679 gap in the icebergs and then get dumped out onto 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:59.960 the western plains. So that is that is, in a nutshell, 0:09:00.000 --> 0:09:03.960 a little very simplified version, how that theory works and 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.200 how everybody thinks that people first came to this continent 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:09.880 and then would have eventually migrated their way down to 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.680 South America. Well, that's what they taught me in elementary school. 0:09:12.720 --> 0:09:15.760 So obviously it's right. Everything they teach you in elementary 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:17.720 school is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing about 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.120 the truth. Absolutely, that is absolutely. Are you about to 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:25.439 tell me that that's not true? Possibly possibly true? The 0:09:25.480 --> 0:09:27.559 thing is is, yeah, nobody knows. I mean he was 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:32.880 ancient man, was a widely a widely persistent creature. Persistent creature. 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.440 I suspect that that North and South America were being 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.920 bombarded by humans like for fifty thousand years in the past. 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.800 And I mean it could be. Well, let's let's move 0:09:42.800 --> 0:09:46.600 on from the land Bridge and this kind of this 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:51.560 next one, which is the Clovis culture, dovetails into that. Yeah, 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:53.959 it doesn't. It doesn't exclude the land Bridge. No, no, no, no, 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.880 but this this is so here's here's what the Clovis 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.800 culture is. Let's just kind of start there. The clothes 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:04.600 Ca culture is a basically we said they followed big games, 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.840 mastodons or the old camels, because camels were in this 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.679 on this American continent as well. They were following all 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:15.360 those they were big game hunters. Well, this people has 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:20.840 been identified only through stone remains that have been left behind. 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.440 Why are they Why are they called the Clovis culture? Sorry, 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:26.960 And and that's that's actually that's a very good question. 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:30.120 It is because of the fact that this was in 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:36.000 two in Clovis, New Mexico. They were doing an excavation 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:40.959 and they started discovering old bones like mastodon bones that 0:10:41.080 --> 0:10:45.160 kind of old big bones and finding all these stone 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:49.280 points in in there, stuck in bone or buried with them. 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:51.880 And so it's good for the clothes people. They were 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:54.439 found somewhere like these things weren't found like in Deadwood, 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.640 South Dakota. Yeah, the Deadwood people. Terrible name, Terrible Vegas, 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:03.000 Las Vegas. Well, the Clovis culture is believed to have 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:08.120 ranged over the majority of North and South America. And 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.280 like I said, because they were found in Clovis, New Mexico, 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.760 that that's the name that's appeared applied to them. And 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.319 that follows in suits. Remember I said that there were 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.640 there were spear points, Well they're called Clovis points based 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.920 on the people that use them. Are there going to 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.200 be a photographs of these these things on our website? 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:30.240 We might have some, but I know the links that 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.520 we're gonna share are going to have many, many, many 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.480 different images because there is tons and tons of photos 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.680 of these things. But let me try and describe a 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.320 Clovis point because this is going to be kind of 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:45.520 important for everybody to track with. Actually, it might be 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.640 helpful for our listeners at this point to pause a 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:50.400 podcast and go out to Wikipedia and then yeah, We'll 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:52.200 go to the website and grab one of the links 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:54.280 and you'll see some of this, and or just google 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:57.319 Clovis point and it will come up. But here's here's 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:02.679 what a Clovis point is. It's a flaked flint spear point. 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:07.240 It's got a notched flute which is inserted into a 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:10.600 wooden or bone shaft, and it's got then a flat 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:14.200 bottom on it. And I know that probably makes no 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.760 sense to you right now, which is why I think 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.000 I need to stop and explain a little bit of 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:23.040 this stone working technology, because there's some terms here that 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.120 are going to get thrown around, and to help them 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.720 make sense, I'm gonna try and you know, make some 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.520 analogies to him and describe them as best I can. 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.960 I said the word napping, well, stone napping is the 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:39.160 process of breaking stone into a shape that you want 0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:41.720 to use. So if you were if you've ever just 0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:45.640 been hitting a rock with a hammer or something or 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.800 another rock, you break it into a shape that you 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:52.240 want to use for whatever purpose. That's called napping stone napping. Um, 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:57.079 you'll hear the term used notched. If the easiest way 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:59.760 to think about this is if you ever watch the 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.480 Old movies where there's Indians and they're firing narrows and 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.760 I being old movies is in like the nineteens seventies, 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:11.040 back American Indians had stone arrow heads and it was 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.880 kind of a triangle. It tapered in with kind of 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.000 a C shape, so they could onto an arrow head. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:21.040 Or if you've ever been to the American Southwest, they 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:26.680 sell the fake kind like by the millions. I always 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.120 thought that those were actually a better design than the 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.880 Clovis points personally, Well, it depends on the application, but 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.800 that that that that section at the bottom, those kind 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:38.560 of scalloped out C shapes, that's what's referred to as 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:43.719 the notch. You've got the term fluted uh. And this 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:46.800 is a stone tool of some kind, can be for 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.840 any use that's got a groove running from its base 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.559 to its tip down its center. So if you think 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.679 about an arrowhead, but you were to stretch it out 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.720 and elongate it and then bevel out on both sides, 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.240 kind of a little shallow valley. Because again this is 0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:07.760 if you've ever watched a caveman movie where caveman has 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:12.000 stick and he throws stick at beast and the stone 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.160 is wedged in the tip. I would say it's similar 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.280 to like the very basic outlet of like a broadsword. 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:20.960 They have that like groove down the middle. It doesn't 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:22.840 go all the way to the tip. That's kind of 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.160 the reference I would make. Obviously it's not a sword, 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.600 it's just like the tip of it. Yeah, I don't 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:34.600 know if that served. But this with what that flute, yeah, yeah, 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:42.040 you're sayings. Actually those are called bloodlines. And this was 0:14:42.120 --> 0:14:44.120 This was for sticks, right, You would split a stick 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.920 down the middle and stick that or maybe or something 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.520 like a handle. It was a way to hold that 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.560 piece of stone using tension mostly right. And you know, 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:57.680 there's theories that they were tied in or maybe they're loose. 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.840 I'm guessing they were tied in somehow. But again that's 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:03.480 this is just the real basic overview of what these 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.080 terms mean. Uh. Flaking is another term that you're gonna 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:12.240 you here, and that is to describe the actual breaking 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.640 of the stone, very specifically and usually with a pressure. 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.520 So if you took um, you'ven't seen obsidian how that breaks. 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:22.920 If you were to take that obsidian and put it 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.520 against something else, it's hard and intentionally put pressure just 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:30.080 to pull a thin sheet off of it, so you're 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:32.920 slowly working it down into it. That's that's what the 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.240 flakes are. Were flaking. The pieces that are left over 0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:40.120 called flakes. That's flaking. And then the last one that 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:42.240 you'll see in some of this and you may hear 0:15:42.440 --> 0:15:45.280 is called by face. And this one took me a 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:49.440 while to figure out. We've all seen pocket knives that 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:55.400 flip open that's got a single sharp face to it. Yeah, 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.080 by face has two sharp edges. So more like what 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:02.880 you see you say, a butterfly knife or or a dagger, Yeah, 0:16:03.000 --> 0:16:07.440 something like that, that's gonna be. Yeah, that's what biface means. 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:11.120 It's got a sharp cutting edge on both sides. So 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:15.000 that's that's some of the terminology. Now the clothes people, 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.520 as we said, they are believed to have ranged all 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.400 over and they're believed to be the first culture in 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:25.440 this country. Uh And and dating their remnants has only 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:31.160 been possible when those points are found with bone of 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:35.120 some kind. And because you can't date rock right because 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:39.720 it's rock, as as I vehmly argued before, uh So 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.880 when they do the carbon dating, that's how they're getting 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:46.560 the idea of when those those things are from and 0:16:46.880 --> 0:16:50.920 some of those these points were originally evidently quote unquote dated, 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:54.440 but they've been reevaluated based on carbon dating of the 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:59.200 bones that were found, and that carbon dating is saying 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:05.080 that they are somewhere between eleven thousand fifty years to 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:08.920 ten thousand, eight hundred years before the present, So BP 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:14.920 before present or BP s now the new term before BC. Yeah, 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:20.960 BC B thank you, This is BP. This is BP 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:24.320 before present. Yeah. So that would actually put them, if 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.560 they're that at that age, that would put them here 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:31.960 after the because my understanding is that the mass migration 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.600 over the bearing of the bridge took place at about 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:40.199 eleven to eleven eleven BC. Well. See, this is this 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.639 is what makes us so a little bit convoluted, is 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:49.199 that there are multiple dating systems being used, and I 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.639 have done my best to try and clean some of 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:57.000 these up and reconcile them. But some people use the BC, 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.840 the B C E, the radio carbon date BP, so 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.200 it gets a little difficult. And so I'm just say 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.560 years old, so I've I've kind of tried to sell 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.920 some of that out, and in what we're reading here today, 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.040 the three of us, it's not always clear because I 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.880 couldn't ever get a clear answer. Well, unlet's also keep 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.080 in mind that these are artifacts that were found in 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:26.040 like New Mexico, which it was first Yeah, contact, I 0:18:26.040 --> 0:18:29.960 would imagine it took hundreds of years meander down. But yeah, 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:31.960 I mean, you know, so it's a little it's a 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.040 little iffy. That's one of the things right about this 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:37.040 whole story is like there's just so many different little bits. 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.919 It's just it's it's unknown until a little later on 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.640 the episode when we solve the mystery. There's a lot 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.639 of theories out there. Yeah. Well, and and let's move forward. 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.480 So we talked some about the Clovis people. Now let's 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.680 talk about some of the evidence it supports that maybe 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:56.160 they were the first in And bear with me because 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:58.600 there's a bunch of science terms and this one sense 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:03.000 alone that I will then exp lane. The tuzzable d 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:08.320 N a of a twelve thousand, five hundred plus year 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:12.040 old infant from Montana was sequenced, So they think the 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:17.679 oldest infant in the world. Yeah, okay, so the infant. Right, 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.520 So here's here's a here's a kind of an explanation 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.639 some of that. So a Tuzmle DNA is any of 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.919 the chromosomes other than sex determining chromosomes, which are the 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:32.120 X and the Y or the genes of those chromosomes. 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:34.000 So these are these are not sex genes. These are 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:36.840 just kind of genes in in the in there that 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:40.280 they're discovering to be able to date it with that 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:46.679 particular infant is referred to as anzick one um, and 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:53.720 it was found near several Clovis artifacts, so there's they're 0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.439 they're postulating from that that the two must be tied together, 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:01.320 which kind of makes sense. Uh. They then did DNA 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:07.080 testing and comparisons from Siberian sites, and these will be 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.800 sites that had um, you know, these pre human or 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:17.520 not pre human, but prehistoric. They had all the human 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:23.240 samples and they ruled out that there were any European 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:29.080 and by that I mean Western European affinities in the DNA. 0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:33.160 So it showed that then all. And then they did 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:37.920 more they're more testing, and they showed that currently existing 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:41.919 native populations of this country, which we the Native Americans, 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:49.960 their DNA was related to it and I'm looking for 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:55.080 the one um. They said that it was really derived 0:20:55.200 --> 0:21:00.280 from an ancient population that lived in Siberia in the 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:06.280 upper paleolithic multi population multi sound right, it's when they 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:08.520 put a postury fees in the middle of a word 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:16.200 like it always in other words malta and I don't know, 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:19.240 you might be right, but they did. They then took 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:24.760 that in sequencing and they showed that South American and 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:32.800 Central American Native American populations were directly related to that DNA. 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:35.960 So in other words, they were running that chain of events. 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.280 And this they say, and this will come in, this 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:41.520 will make sense a little bit later, but they say 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:47.400 that proves that the Clovis culture was here and it 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:51.520 couldn't have interbred with a culture that had come from 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:58.159 Europe to the what is now the America's And and 0:21:58.320 --> 0:22:00.520 I have to say that when I say that is 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:04.920 I what I mean is if they did encounter other people, 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.080 because it will be important in a little bit. If 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:10.600 the encounter other people basically means they didn't breed with them, 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:15.159 they killed them, or they did something. But no, no 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:20.600 interbreeding happened on any big scale. So that's an important 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.840 thing to remember for later on. So this would suggests 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:28.159 then that if this club is this baby who was 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.400 more closely related to Central and South American Indians, then 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:34.240 to North American Indians that populationally have The day was 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:36.760 to suggest that the Clubs people maybe didn't so much 0:22:36.800 --> 0:22:40.160 die out, its just move south and maybe a new, well, 0:22:40.480 --> 0:22:46.840 more aggressive population. They are related to the Indian cultures, 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:51.600 the American Indian cultures that were in the eastern seaborn 0:22:51.800 --> 0:22:56.400 and the northeastern seaboard. But what it what it seems 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:59.639 to indicate. I've seen some some graphs of the or 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:03.960 some apps of this. It seems to indicate, to simplify it, 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:08.359 that they headed south. They hit what I would guess 0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:12.520 was somewhere around Texas to Mexico, and one group kept 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:17.160 heading south and the other group headed east and then 0:23:17.440 --> 0:23:20.280 they and then they went east, hit the sea and 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:24.080 then began to head north again. So there's a divergence 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:28.840 in the gene pool because of that. Now, again this 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:32.760 is very theoretical. I don't understand the gene sequencing and 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:35.320 how all of that works. You don't, That's what I 0:23:35.480 --> 0:23:38.320 understand it to me. I mean, it's pretty freaking cool, 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:40.720 but that they can figure out that they must have 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.600 diverged somewhere like that, but farther than that, the science 0:23:44.680 --> 0:23:47.280 is a bit beyond me. Yeah, I think it's a 0:23:47.720 --> 0:23:49.760 beyond everybody because the problem with that is is that 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:52.439 you're working there, even if you're a super expert on 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:56.240 this stuff, you're still working with very fragmentary evidence. Yeah. Well, 0:23:56.280 --> 0:23:58.560 and and here this will actually bring us into the 0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:00.720 next thing that we've got for the of his theory, 0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:05.000 which is problems with it because if we think that 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:09.480 whatever people it was came across the land bridge around 0:24:09.840 --> 0:24:14.120 twelve thousand years ago, that means that in a thousand 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:17.639 years they had managed to hit had all the way south, 0:24:18.240 --> 0:24:22.359 populate that whole area, and then spread east into the 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:25.520 eastern seaboard of the continental US and then go up, 0:24:25.600 --> 0:24:30.440 which is a really fast migration in my mind. Well, yeah, 0:24:30.480 --> 0:24:33.360