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Speaker 1: Everybody. It's Spill Courtney with Shop Talk number forty six.

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Speaker 1: Welcome in, Hey Alex, Hello, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm good once again? Good, great morning with you.

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Speaker 1: Uh? Have you gotten any responses on our PSA.

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Speaker 2: We're recording number forty five and number forty six at

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Speaker 2: the same time, so it's not fair and ethics.

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Speaker 1: Our listeners don't know that. You just blow it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, okay, Well, should I do the PSA again? No?

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Speaker 2: Okay, speaking of positivity on the last one, I need

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Speaker 2: to stop mentioning it. Probably it's probably annoying to people.

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Speaker 2: What about trying to find somebody? It's good. Actually, he's

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Speaker 2: got one. In the IF poem, what are you talking

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Speaker 2: about here? This kind of relates to my story. It says,

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Speaker 2: if you can make one heap of all your winnings

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Speaker 2: and risk it on one turn of pitch and toss

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Speaker 2: here's the part and lose and start at your beginnings

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Speaker 2: and never breathe a word about your loss.

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Speaker 1: Eh.

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Speaker 2: When I was preparing last night, like I for a

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Speaker 2: shot the previous shop Talk, I thought about that too,

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Speaker 2: with obviously like the divorce and stuff. But it's too

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Speaker 2: easy to talk about it too much, you know, either

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Speaker 2: that you know, we're trying to find somebody new. So

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Speaker 2: it's I mean, it's a good reminder for me, you know,

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Speaker 2: here and lose and start at your beginnings and never

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Speaker 2: breathe a word about your loss. And it's it's probably

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Speaker 2: important not to talk about it too much and dwell

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Speaker 2: on it too much. And so anyway, we don't need

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Speaker 2: to do another PSA about it. I got it was

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Speaker 2: that too much? You want me to edit all that out?

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Speaker 1: No, I mean I'm sitting here thinking about that and

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Speaker 1: wishing better for you, frankly, so okay. Shop Talk number

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Speaker 1: forty six. We get a lot of folks that are

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Speaker 1: inspired by an army normal folks and inspired by shop Talk,

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Speaker 1: and inspired by some of the stuff we do, and

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Speaker 1: they just want to do more or don't feel like

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Speaker 1: they have an opportunity to serve because of their life

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Speaker 1: if they're busy, work, schedule, whatever. And we always talk

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Speaker 1: about how you don't have to be part of some

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Speaker 1: big organization to be a member of the army of

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Speaker 1: normal folks. And even in speeches I do, I often

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Speaker 1: talk about in servant leadership that the most important servant

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Speaker 1: leadership that we can perform is often down the hallway,

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Speaker 1: just down the hall of your home. So Vox's Rachel

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Speaker 1: Cohen was a guest, which man. That was a great

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Speaker 1: interview and just witnessing that young lady's transformation from someone

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Speaker 1: who actually regarded volunteerism as old school, dated, worn out

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Speaker 1: and even I think the words were even at the

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Speaker 1: very least and effect of and there's a concept that

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Speaker 1: even at the very worst, it can be counterproductive to volunteer.

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Speaker 1: That's a mindset of some people in our country. And

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Speaker 1: in her words, in her generation, it's been taught and

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Speaker 1: she's transformed her thinking on that well. She shared an

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Speaker 1: article with us later called we need to Expand our

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Speaker 1: View of Societal Contribution, written by Clay Rutledge. I want

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Speaker 1: to share that with you, and I want to share

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Speaker 1: it with you in the vein of how you can

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Speaker 1: be a member of the army of normal folks without

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Speaker 1: even leaving the hallway shop tap number forty six Expanding

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Speaker 1: our view of societal contribution. Right after these brief messages

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Speaker 1: from our general sponsors, all right, everybody, welcome back. Shop

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Speaker 1: Talk number forty six. We need to expand our view

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Speaker 1: of societal contribution by Clay Rutledge, here's what Clay had

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Speaker 1: to say. In my last newsletter, I shared the Human

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Speaker 1: Flourishing Labs. What is that the Human Flourishing Labs?

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Speaker 2: And it might be the name of his Groupkay, I'll

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Speaker 2: double check it, all right.

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Speaker 1: I'll read you check. In my last newsletter, I shared

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Speaker 1: the Human Flourishing Labs latest Progress Pulse survey, which revealed

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Speaker 1: an encouraging picture. Most American adults believe they have the

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Speaker 1: power and responsibility to improve the world, and that they

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Speaker 1: are actively doing so. However, it also found that over

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Speaker 1: one third of Americans don't believe they are making important

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Speaker 1: contributions to the world. It's interesting Americans want to but

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Speaker 1: a third don't believe they are. In this week's newsletter,

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Speaker 1: I want to explore how our culture's narrow view of

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Speaker 1: what counts is meaningful societal contribution might help explain this finding.

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Speaker 1: Before exploring how our culture potentially shapes perceptions of contributions,

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Speaker 1: I should acknowledge other important factors. Some Americans might feel

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Speaker 1: they aren't making important contributions because they face external barriers

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Speaker 1: to pursuing their ambitions or reaching their ferul potential. Such

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Speaker 1: barriers often require public policy solutions. Our team at Archbridge

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Speaker 1: Institute is doing work in this space, focusing on topics

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Speaker 1: such as barriers to social mobility, But here I want

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Speaker 1: to focus on culture and psychology. More specifically, I want

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Speaker 1: to examine whether we undervalue certain types of contributions in

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Speaker 1: our culture. Our views about what counts as valuable contribution

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Speaker 1: could affect both how people recognize their own impact and

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Speaker 1: their engagement activities. They're critical to human flourishing and progress.

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Speaker 1: As noted, just over one third of Americans don't believe

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Speaker 1: they are currently contributing to improving the world. What's more,

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Speaker 1: education correlates strongly with whether individuals believe they are making

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Speaker 1: a difference. Seventy percent of college graduates believe they are

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Speaker 1: contributing to proving the world, compared to only fifty seven

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Speaker 1: percent without a college education. A recent series of studies

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Speaker 1: published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology offers

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Speaker 1: valuable insight into why so many Americans, particularly those without

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Speaker 1: college education, don't see themselves as making meaningful contributions to society.

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Speaker 1: I'm an interjectior. I don't find that surprising at all.

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Speaker 1: And when you talk about an army in normal folks,

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Speaker 1: and you talk about people being inspired and wanting to

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Speaker 1: do something but not feeling valuable enough, or not feeling

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Speaker 1: what they do is important enough, or not even feeling

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Speaker 1: like they have the capacity to serve or be an

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Speaker 1: army of the normal folks. It's interesting that Clay Rutledge's

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Speaker 1: data and research here agrees with the stuff that we

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Speaker 1: say all the time.

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Speaker 2: It kind of reminds me of micro talks about like

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Speaker 2: you go into a college counselor's office and they got

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Speaker 2: a picture of a kid in a white dress shirt

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Speaker 2: and he's smiling, and then you got a guy working

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Speaker 2: under a car and he's all griming and he's not smiling.

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Speaker 2: And it's like what we've culturally communicated is like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: these kids go to college and work in these jobs

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Speaker 2: that they're contributing to society, and everybody else is doing

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Speaker 2: these jobs that are just whatever. I'm just an auto mechanic, right.

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Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting is also about Mike is

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Speaker 1: recently he was asked, what are we going to do?

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Speaker 1: You know, he's big on the trades and getting people

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Speaker 1: in the trades and people can find happiness in the trades.

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Speaker 1: That contributed to sighting in the trades, And every year

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Speaker 1: we lose people to retirement from the trades, and we're

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Speaker 1: losing three to everyone that goes in it. And he's

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Speaker 1: been asked, where do we find these kids? Where do

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Speaker 1: we find these people going trades? Do you know where

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Speaker 1: they are? What are we going to do? And he says, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know where they are. They're in eighth grade. But

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Speaker 1: when those eighth graders go into a counselor's office and

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Speaker 1: they see the image you're talking about, they immediately say, well,

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Speaker 1: I got to wear a white collar and be an

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Speaker 1: accountant to be happy and a contribute to society and

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Speaker 1: contribute to society, which is exactly what this data from.

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Speaker 1: Clay Rutledge says, So, sorry to interrupt midway through the thing,

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Speaker 1: but the point is, you know, we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: same thing, and here's data that supports it. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: he goes on. Similar to our Progress Pulse findings, the

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Speaker 1: researchers found that Americans with less formal education reported feeling

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Speaker 1: they contributed less to society than those with more education.

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Speaker 1: This pattern extended beyond personal assessment. Those with less education

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Speaker 1: also believe others saw their contributions is less valuable. To

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Speaker 1: understand why this disparity exists. The researchers conducted studies examining

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Speaker 1: how Americans evaluate different types of helping behavior. For example,

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Speaker 1: and one revealing study, participants evaluated two people who spent

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Speaker 1: one evening per week tutoring a younger student who needed

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Speaker 1: academic help. Okay, so two people tutoring a young student

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Speaker 1: who needed academic help. The only difference was that one

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Speaker 1: person tutored a student in an after school program, someone

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Speaker 1: they didn't know, while the other tutored their younger cousin.

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Speaker 1: Participants consistently rated the after school program tutoring as more

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Speaker 1: of a contribution to society than to family tutoring, even

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Speaker 1: though the help provided was identical. I found that fascinating

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Speaker 1: this preference emerged regardless of participants education level. The researchers

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Speaker 1: also found this indifference stemmed in part from perceptions of choice.

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Speaker 1: Helping individuals outside of one's family was seen as more

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Speaker 1: of a free choice, while helping family was viewed as

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Speaker 1: more of an obligation. The researcher's final study drew on

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Speaker 1: data from a large representative sample of Americans tracked over

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Speaker 1: several years. They discovered that people with more formal education

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Speaker 1: spent more time doing volunteer work for strangers, and people

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Speaker 1: with less formal education spent more time helping family members

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Speaker 1: and close others. Over these differences helped explain why those

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Speaker 1: with less education have lower perceptions of societal contribution. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: volunteering for strangers has merged as a stronger predictor of

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Speaker 1: self perceived societal contribution than providing unpaid assistant to a

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Speaker 1: family and close others. These findings reveal that our cultural

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Speaker 1: conceptions of societal contribution and human agency are too narrow.

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Speaker 1: The fact that we feel a stronger sense of duty

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Speaker 1: to help family members doesn't make these contributions any less

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Speaker 1: valuable to society. Like I've said a thousand times, our

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Speaker 1: greatest servant leadership call is first down the hallway of

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Speaker 1: our own home. When family members invest time and energy

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Speaker 1: in helping each other develop capabilities, pursue opportunities, take creative

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Speaker 1: and entrepreneurial risks, and overcome challenges, they are making really

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Speaker 1: important contributions to both individual and societal well being. In addition,

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Speaker 1: the presence of family obligations doesn't diminish our agency. Choosing

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Speaker 1: to act on perceived duties to family and other loved

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Speaker 1: ones represents a meaningful expression of personal agency. While we

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Speaker 1: may feel strong pressures obligations toward family, each individual must

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Speaker 1: ultimately decide whether to embrace these responsibilities and how best

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Speaker 1: to fulfill them. Even in the face of powerful family expectations.

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Speaker 1: We exercise choice when we decide to invest our, time,

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Speaker 1: energy in supporting those close to us. In closing better,

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Speaker 1: recognizing family support as an agentic action and meaningful societal

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Speaker 1: contribution could help many Americans understand that serving loved ones

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Speaker 1: is also serving society. Recall that over one third of

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Speaker 1: Americans and forty three percent of those without college degrees

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Speaker 1: don't believe they're making important contributions to society. Many Americans

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Speaker 1: are engaged in activities focused on helping their families, friends,

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Speaker 1: co workers, and neighbors thrive. It appears that many don't

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Speaker 1: view these vital efforts as contributing society. What's needed is

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Speaker 1: a broader cultural recognition of out serving those in our

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Speaker 1: immediate social network enriches our communities and advances human flourishing

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Speaker 1: and progress. Those are the words of Clay Rutledge in

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Speaker 1: a article he wrote, we need to expand our view

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Speaker 1: of societal contributions that our former guests. Rachel Cohen from

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Speaker 1: Box shared with us I love it. Here's the deal, guys. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we produce a show that has an army normal folks

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Speaker 1: every Tuesday and Shop Talk every Friday, and we do

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Speaker 1: it every week, and we're constantly highlighting people who are

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Speaker 1: sharing their talents and gifts and meeting need at a

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Speaker 1: place where need exist, employing their discipline and their passion. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but maybe we also need to think about our own narrative,

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Speaker 1: because I want to tell you when I coached at Manassas,

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Speaker 1: a friend of mine named Aaron Hayden who played at

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Speaker 1: the University of Tennessee and then he played for San

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Speaker 1: Diego and Green Bay and the NFL. I think he's

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Speaker 1: got a Super Bowl ring. I know he's got an

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Speaker 1: FC Championship ring. Anyways, great guy, good friend of mine,

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Speaker 1: played running back. When I was at Manassas. I had

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Speaker 1: him come and visit and talk with the team a

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Speaker 1: couple of different times. And one time he was making

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Speaker 1: a point and he said how many As he was

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Speaker 1: addressing my players, who said, how many of you in

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Speaker 1: this room? I want you to raise your hand. Have

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Speaker 1: two parents in the household, both of whom graduating from

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Speaker 1: college and seventy one kids in the room, and not

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Speaker 1: a single one raised their hand. And then he said,

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Speaker 1: how many kids in this room have had one or

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Speaker 1: more family members who lived in the same house you

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Speaker 1: live in serve jail time? And every single one of

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Speaker 1: them raised their hands. It was stark to me that

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Speaker 1: Aaron knew that that was the answer he is going

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Speaker 1: to get.

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Speaker 2: It's in the movie Undefeated. If people haven't seen it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's a little different, but that was another time,

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Speaker 1: but it's exact same thing. Yes it is. It's a

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Speaker 1: scene in the movie. It is, but what was cut

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Speaker 1: from the movie. And again I was I was just

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Speaker 1: shot that, you know, Aaron knew that that's the answer

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Speaker 1: he was going to get before he asked the question,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't. And I was the guy that'd spent

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Speaker 1: seven years with these kids. You know, just another you know,

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Speaker 1: revelation about how so much we have to learn about

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Speaker 1: one another from different worlds. But as it pertains to

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Speaker 1: today's conversation, he asked another question, and he said, who

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Speaker 1: in this room can name one bedtime story? Can just

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Speaker 1: stay the title or just give you the theme of

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Speaker 1: one bedtime story you've been told, or either seeing the

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Speaker 1: words or even just hum the words of a single

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Speaker 1: lullaby that you ever heard as a child, and not

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Speaker 1: one kid raised her in and Aaron said, he challenged

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Speaker 1: my team break that because he said, guys, Aaron is

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Speaker 1: very real. He said, guys, if you don't read on

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Speaker 1: grade level by third grade, you are three times more

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Speaker 1: likely to be unemployed or in jail than you are

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Speaker 1: to have a job by adulthood. You have to read

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Speaker 1: on third grade level. And he said, yeah, the school's

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Speaker 1: got to teach how to read, but that starts at home.

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Speaker 1: Kids learn phonetics, kids learn alliteration, kids learn how to read.

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Speaker 1: Kids learn the appreciation for words and grammar by having

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Speaker 1: been read to by their parents and having played word

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Speaker 1: games with their parents and having ABC coloring books. They

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Speaker 1: also learn prose and how to be creative and write

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Speaker 1: through poems, which are oftentime given to children in the

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Speaker 1: form of lullabis or songs, and absent that in early

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Speaker 1: childhood development, children are much less likely to read on

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Speaker 1: third grade on grade level by third grade, which then

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Speaker 1: the data shows people that don't read on grade level

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Speaker 1: by third grade are much more likely to not contribute

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Speaker 1: to society and possibly be a drag on society. And

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Speaker 1: his whole point was it starts at home with your children,

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Speaker 1: reading and lullabies and nurturing. And if you think about that,

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Speaker 1: the greatest survey, the service the army of normal folks

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Speaker 1: can do before they ever go out and save the

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Speaker 1: world is make sure you're serving and leading and being

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Speaker 1: an army of normal folks to the people down the

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Speaker 1: hallway from you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's frankly a good challenge for us

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Speaker 2: as storytellers doing this cast too, of finding more stories

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Speaker 2: of people serving their family. And if people have ideas,

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Speaker 2: to make sure to email billet normal folks out us

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Speaker 2: and share them. And I'll give you an example of

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Speaker 2: one I've been trying to book but I've not been

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Speaker 2: able to get it yet. This woman's husband had an

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Speaker 2: affair and he ended up impregnating this girl, and this

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Speaker 2: girl it was kind of a disaster of life. Wasn't together,

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Speaker 2: the baby wasn't gonna end up in a good situation.

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Speaker 2: And she finds us out and she goes to the

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Speaker 2: girl's house and says, I want to adopt the child?

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Speaker 2: What in race it? Yeah? And like paid for the pregnancy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean, she literally you know brought in the Saint,

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Speaker 2: I know, but it starts at home, right, And it's like,

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Speaker 2: that's the thing about an army of normal folks. If

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Speaker 2: we all took care of our families, there wouldn't be

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Speaker 2: any problems. I mean, so many families are so broken

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Speaker 2: that it's still going to need more of us to

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Speaker 2: step in and help them. But if everybody took care

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Speaker 2: of their families, a lot of these problems would go away.

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Speaker 1: So true. So, Rachel Cohen, thanks for sharing the article

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Speaker 1: with us. Clay Rutledge, thanks for doing the work.

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Speaker 2: We need to explain Clay's job, just so you know.

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Speaker 2: He focuses on human flourishing, his whole job. He's like

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Speaker 2: a researcher and writer on it.

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Speaker 1: Well that makes sense from this that up.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I've actually talked to him once before. But

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Speaker 2: is that a cool gig like your whole time I

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Speaker 2: have him on the show. Maybe his whole jobs on

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Speaker 2: human flourishing.

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Speaker 1: I want to hear about it. I think we need

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Speaker 1: to do that Shop Talk number forty six. We need

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Speaker 1: to expand our viewers to societal contribution. I'll subtitle it

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Speaker 1: my own words, take care of your families be a

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Speaker 1: part of the Army of normal folks and serve at

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Speaker 1: home first, and then when you're homes healthy, then we

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Speaker 1: can get outside and do work. And for goodness sakes,

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Speaker 1: if you are serving at home, give yourself a break.

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Speaker 1: Your contributions are no less than anybody else's and continue on.

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Speaker 1: So that's shop talk number forty six. Expand your view

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Speaker 1: of societal contribution, serve it home, and then serve out

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Speaker 1: in the world. If you have any ideas for shop talks,

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Speaker 1: email me anytime at Bill at normal folks dot us

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Speaker 1: and I will respond, and if I think we have

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Speaker 1: something to add to your questions or ideas, we'll take

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Speaker 1: them up and be on that. What else, alex A.

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Speaker 2: You're gonna start pitching this to me every time.

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Speaker 1: Now pretty much. I can't ever remember it, and when

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Speaker 1: I do say it, you always correct how I'll say it.

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Speaker 2: That's because you say here, share.

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Speaker 1: Us on social You could handle that.

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Speaker 2: Subscribe to the podcast or ready to review it.

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Speaker 1: Subsibe to the podcast, subscribe to the podcast, join the

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Speaker 1: Army at normal folks dot us and consider becoming a

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Speaker 1: premium member.

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Speaker 2: There you nailed it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what else?

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Speaker 2: The thing you always would mess up is subscribe to

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Speaker 2: the podcast on the website, which you can't do. Okay,

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Speaker 2: that's the thing here for you to do it. This

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Speaker 2: time you did well well.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of watching you do it and figuring

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Speaker 1: it out. So that's it. Shop Talk number forty six

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Speaker 1: expand our view of Sidle contribution contributions. Be a servant

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Speaker 1: leader with those people down the hallway, and then once

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Speaker 1: that's under control, get out in the community and do

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Speaker 1: the same elsewhere. And Urm minermal folks can change the world.

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Speaker 1: I'll see you next week.