1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From ufos to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: production of I heart radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, My name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined, as always, with our super producer, 7 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: Paul mission controlled decans. Most importantly, you are you, you 8 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: want you to know. Shout out to all our new 10 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: homeowners in the audience. Two thirds of your fellow conspiracy 11 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: realists are currently new homeowners right now recording in their houses. 12 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: I have to ask you, guys, Matt Noel, before we 13 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: set off on this journey, what was the vibe like 14 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: when you moved into your house? I'm going somewhere with this. 15 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: Oh Man, Um, I don't know. It felt. I felt 16 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: kind of clear. It really felt any malevolent spirits dwelling 17 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: in the eaves quite yet, but you never know. So 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: it as it takes time for those things to work 19 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: themselves out and express themselves. Um, it is finally starting 20 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: to feel like kind of like my house. Uh, speaking 21 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: of clean I actually hired a company to deep clean. 22 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: It not but kind of clean we're talking about today. 23 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: But that really bumped it up a notch. Let me 24 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 1: tell you. There's been sort of clean and deep clean 25 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: are like miles. Uh. It also felt like a spiritual 26 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: way was lifted off when that happened. But yeah, nothing, 27 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: nothing spooky to report just yet. Lemons at the four corners. 28 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: We'll see what happens. Uh Ben, when you lived I 29 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: remember there was a house you lived in that had 30 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: that really cool basement. Did you ever have anything like 31 00:01:56,880 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: negative energy around that basement? Well, energy, energy, you know. Uh, 32 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: maybe maybe I'm the wrong person to answer, but uh, 33 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: energy is like another technology or another force of nature. U. 34 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: It can do a million things and it really, as 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: we'll see, a big part of our exploration today is 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 1: whether there is such a thing as inherently good or 37 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: bad energy, and to what degree do humans have agency 38 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: encountering it. Thank you so much for asking about me, Matt. 39 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: I appreciate that are one of our questions for everybody 40 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: listening today is whether or not you believe in bad vibes. 41 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: Uh Not the amazing Jeff Goldbloom film which we referenced 42 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: so often. Uh Not just the agglomeration of nonverbal cues 43 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: that subconsciously alert human beings the dangerous situations. Side Note. 44 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 1: We're talking about this off air. Everybody right now should 45 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: read a fantastic book called the gift of fear by 46 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: Gavin de Becker. Also, yes, our corporate overlords will black 47 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: bag us and put us in Honda odyssees. Oh the 48 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: indignity if we do not tell you to please preorder 49 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: our book if you have yet to do so. The 50 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: gift of fear, while a valuable read, doesn't particularly address 51 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 1: some of the things we're looking at today. We're looking 52 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: at the other stuff. That's what we're asking about. Like 53 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: all of us, have encountered someone who claims they can 54 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: sense when there's something you know off about a place, 55 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: the soil is Salah and so on. Like you may 56 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: have encountered people who are claiming they can erase or 57 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: even mitigate these sensations, for lack of a better word 58 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: and without pissing off the Catholic Church. You might have 59 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: run into people who claim they can exercise house. Have you, guys, 60 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: ever felt of the bad vibe when you walk into 61 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: a place? I've never encountered that. Necessarily, I am sometimes 62 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: when I walk into a place where I'm aware there's 63 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: a history, then I think that's just a I mean 64 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: in my mind that's a psychological reaction I'm having rather 65 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: than actually feeling some kind of energy, if that makes sense. 66 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: Although in the old office where I used to record 67 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: uh there was a grounding issue with the electricity, which 68 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: did give it a strange feel maybe, but again that's 69 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: something I was aware of. Do you feel like it's first? 70 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: I love that. This foreshadowing, Matt. That is definitely we're 71 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: getting into the power of belief and the power of information. Really, 72 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: have you run into someone who has been convinced that 73 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: they met a bad place like an Amityville? Check out 74 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: our earlier episode on that or, you know, a lizzie 75 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: boarding episode. Check out our strange news segment on when 76 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,239 Speaker 1: that Ben Breakfast got sold. I I'll be honest, cards 77 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: on the table. I do get vibes from different places 78 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: and I kind of explain them. What vibes did you 79 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,919 Speaker 1: get when you were in my house? See, that's the 80 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,640 Speaker 1: real question. Which House? W H? I C H. I mean, folks, 81 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 1: I forgot this is an audio podcast. Which House? Now 82 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: ben does a Ben does kind of a concierge service 83 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: where he will exercise your place before you even know 84 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: it needs it and you'll do it. We'll do it 85 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: while you're not home, in the most unobtrusive way. So 86 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: if you stage smell, yeah, exactly. No, I mean, I 87 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,880 Speaker 1: don't know, I certainly I think it's for me it's 88 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: more psychological with people too. I think I just sense 89 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: certain mechanics that people tended to operate within and I 90 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,559 Speaker 1: can maybe get a sense of like what their vibe 91 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: is based on the phrases they use, the way they talk, 92 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 1: the body language and all of that. So I don't 93 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: know that I believe necessarily in spiritual presences. I'm with you, Matt, 94 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 1: on the history, because I do feel like that's psychological 95 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: as well. If you know about the history of the 96 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: place that you're entering, its sort of like knowing what 97 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: a piece of art you know what the context around 98 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: it means. It gives you a better sense of being 99 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: what to like interpret what the piece of art was about, 100 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: rather than just like going in cold Um. But I 101 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: mean that's not to say that people don't truly truly 102 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,679 Speaker 1: believe this stuff, and there isn't like a whole industry 103 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: wrapped around it. There's a Um, a really interesting story 104 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: about David Bowie Um, in his cokiest of periods, around 105 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: the making of the album station to station, where he 106 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: rented this mansion in Los fieleas in in l a 107 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: I used to belong to the basis of deep purple, 108 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: that he hired a white witch was very well known 109 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: in that part of of Hollywood to exercise what was 110 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: wanted to be referred to as his cocaine palace Um, 111 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: because he definitely sent some some bad vibes there. But 112 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: he was also horribly addicted to cocaine and it was 113 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: only surviving on milk and red peppers and spent most 114 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: of his free time watching Nazi propaganda videos on thirty 115 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: five millimeter film. Who hasn't been there? You know, some 116 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: human experiences are universal. Hopefully Not David Boye's experience, and 117 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: if that is your experience, I very much hope you 118 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: find yourself in better spirits now. Oh my gosh, he 119 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: said spirits. Where are we going? Here? Are The facts? 120 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: We're talking about an ancient practice in the modern day. 121 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: Let's get to it. Through pop culture. If you are 122 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: a certain type of horror fan, you may remember an 123 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: especially uh compelling medium, a show steeler, in the film poultergeist. 124 00:07:54,840 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: In poultergeist, Tangina barrens helps the free lean fan late 125 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: tackle a supernatural threat from beyond the grave. She has 126 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: his famous line. Let me see if I can pull 127 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: my registr up to the voice. This house is clear. 128 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: This house something like that. She's not referring to the carpet. 129 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: It's not a deep clean. She's talking about their work 130 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: ridding this house of an evil supernatural presence named Kane. 131 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: If you want to know the backstory, watch the rest 132 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: of the franchise, hopefully freely available to you. And we 133 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: all know it was too well, Kane is the original beast, 134 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: the original the monster. Wasn't always what's the what's the 135 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: creepy guy's name? The creepy preacher guy? Isn't his name 136 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: like Reverend Kane? Yeah, Kane's what I'm saying. Kane is 137 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: he's just, he's just the new personification of that. Okay, 138 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: I guess they just learned more about they do more 139 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: world building. Got It. Check it off, check out. The 140 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: first one has the spooky clown though, right. You know, uh, 141 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: maybe that's a rewatch for me. Poltergeist exists as a 142 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: very interesting venn diagram of family adventure and straight up horror. UH, 143 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: the reason we're bringing up polter geist is that it's 144 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:20,440 Speaker 1: a work of fiction, but it is not from whole cloth. Again, 145 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: a few things exist in a vacuum. There are numerous 146 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: cases of people, from the past to the modern day, 147 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: who really do believe their houses or certain locations are 148 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: haunted or, you know, they need a vibe check, and 149 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: these folks feel they have to enact some sort of 150 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: ritual to rid the location of this presence, this vibe, 151 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 1: this aura, this my asthma, whatever you wanna call it, 152 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 1: and it has a lot to do, or has a 153 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: lot of commonality with exorcism rituals that we examined at 154 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 1: length in previous episodes. And it's not necessarily always a 155 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: bad thing, a purification ritual, you know, unless you're the 156 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:11,079 Speaker 1: biggest stick in the mud ever, it's a good thing, right, 157 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: if you're not hurting someone, I mean you, like you 158 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: see it today, right, you see it today in many 159 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: spiritual belief systems, one must purify oneself before entering a 160 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: temple or a holy place, some sort of particular location. 161 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: You Um a blue yourself, maybe with water, or you 162 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: might be in a place like the baps temple here 163 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 1: near Atlanta, wherein you have a process of pushing smoke 164 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 1: towards yourself, towards your face and over your head, right, 165 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: and that is simply to purify you, to give you 166 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 1: the blessing of something divine. In other cases, cultures might 167 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,720 Speaker 1: hold a ceremony, not to purify the person but to 168 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: purify the place, and it gets ugly. If you go 169 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: pretty far back, you can see the idea of human 170 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:17,199 Speaker 1: sacrifice being used to sanctify or make official the founding 171 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: of a of a thing. But nowadays most times, uh, 172 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: groups of people and communities are not sacrificing a child, 173 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: a human child or or an animal to sanctify a 174 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 1: place or make it official. UH, most of the time 175 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,719 Speaker 1: when you hear about clearing or cleansing a house of 176 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,400 Speaker 1: bad vibes, you're gonna read about something like the practice 177 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: of smudging, which will discuss in a moment Um. Yeah, 178 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: don't like to keep it brief, to say immediate smudging. 179 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: You Burn Sage, right, that's how most of the West 180 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: does it. You burn a particular type of sage, get 181 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: the bad vibes out. Is that everybody's understanding? Am I 182 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: off base? Am I being too broad? I think there 183 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: are other substances that can be used, or are often 184 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: used in conjunction with sage. Sweet. But yeah, we we 185 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 1: can get into that. Polo Santo is a really big one. 186 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: That's what pologize. Oh, yeah, exactly, but that that is 187 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: that's like a type of wood Um and sage is 188 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: more of like a bundle of of herbs. I find 189 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: that they smell very, very similar. I'm not a huge 190 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: fan of the scent, but it is distinct and it 191 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 1: usually is done with some intention and I think been 192 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: to your point, whether you believe in the efficacy of 193 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 1: these types of things, I think laying out intention can 194 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 1: be very important, or even just sort of like setting 195 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: a base level of like, you know, I'm gonna Honor 196 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: This House that I'm about to occupy or or that 197 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: I'm about to spend time in or whatever, and it 198 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 1: is the way. It's sort of being in some way connected, 199 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: more connected with the space, and I think that's cool. Yeah, 200 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: and what will it into it? But you can see 201 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: why all of these things play a part psychologically on 202 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: the people that are both you know doing the rituals 203 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:14,520 Speaker 1: as well as the people who are receiving the rituals. 204 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: There's there's a psychological effect, no matter what the spiritual 205 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: or metaphysical effects maybe. Yeah, yeah, well said, and it's easy, 206 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: all too easy, to consign these experiences to the dusty 207 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: halls of ancient history. But we have to consider this. 208 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: Even of science has understood in has advanced over Millennia. People, 209 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: the actual people, are largely the same as you are 210 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: now when you're hearing this. They're working with the information 211 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: they have. Uh. They want to be the cool kid 212 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: in the room of their society. They want their children 213 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: to have a better life than them. They like to eat, 214 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: they naps all the hits, uh. And, as such, a 215 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: lot of the people in ancient civilizations held a lot 216 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: of the same broad concerns, same fears, same goals, you 217 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: name it. If you explained to them right, if someone 218 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: from let's say, Oh Gosh, let's say someone from like 219 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: two thousand BC, all of a sudden was your roommate 220 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: and you told them that crocs were cool and you 221 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: conveyed to them that crocs were like a socially important thing, 222 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: then they would understand the value of crocs, because they're 223 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: not that different from you. Like this is a great example. Okay, 224 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: can I kind of just say really quickly, Ben I'm 225 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: I'm wearing crocs right now. I've decided to make the 226 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: full plunge into crocs, wearing dumb Um, because they have 227 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: kind of made it come back. But my kid is 228 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: not about it and the more she gives me crap 229 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: about it, the more I'm just gonna lean harder. And 230 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: their bright blue crocks. So that's all. Welcome. I welcome 231 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: your new horizon of norm core. Uh and you know what, 232 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: maybe call it dad core, because you're you're doing an 233 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: awesome job with it. I know come by, I will. 234 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: I will tell Eden to lay off or double down. 235 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: You tell us which way you want to go, and 236 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: I got your back. Uh. So, he just remember to 237 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: wash them regularly. That's all. Or No, I'm kidding, wash them. 238 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: But but here's the thing. Uh So, when I was 239 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: thinking of modern analogs right this, it's so easy to 240 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: look back on people who were the same as you, 241 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: but they add access to less information than you do 242 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: now or less. Uh, you have access to different kinds 243 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: of information. If you're alive now, right many people listening 244 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: today would be frankly embarrassing existing out in the wild. Uh, 245 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: and you know, uh, just the same way that many 246 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: other people from thousands of years ago would be clueless 247 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: when it came to the INS and outs and nuances 248 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: of modern society. So here is an analog that shows 249 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: us just how common this belief in bad vibes has 250 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: been for thousands and thousands of years. Not for nothing 251 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: did I set up the fact that you guys are 252 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: new homeowners. I don't want to be weird about it, 253 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: but uh, when you were buying, when you were buying 254 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: your houses, when you guys were negotiating, were you aware 255 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: of the various laws, which are weirdly specific, about selling 256 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: a house where a death has occurred? It's a disclosure thing, right, 257 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 1: like you know that you are a wired to disclose 258 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: it if it's happened within a certain period of time 259 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: in Alaska, California and South Dakota. Uh, the thing is, 260 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: you don't really in the US. You don't have to 261 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: disclose a peaceful death on the property. If you are 262 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: in the three states are just named, then you believe 263 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: the way it goes is that in California you have 264 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: to disclose any death on a property within the last 265 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: three years before the purchase. Uh, if you are in 266 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: Alaska and South Dakota, it's any death within the past year, 267 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: and if you are in other states it's going by 268 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: a thing. I made this up. Let me, I'm gonna 269 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: Pitch to UH Nolan Matt here. I like to call 270 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: it the Guacamole rule. The information is available on request. 271 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: So when you're talking to the the people selling the house, 272 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: or whichever you know, like proxy of them there is, 273 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: you have to ask them if someone died, and in 274 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: many states they have to tell you. Is that like 275 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: if I ask you if you're a cop, you gotta 276 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: tell me if you're a cop. Maybe true. Wait, wait, 277 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,680 Speaker 1: so you have to ask, like there's no, that's it. 278 00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: You just have to think to ask. Yeah, it's like 279 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 1: how you know? I call it the Guacamole rule because 280 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: in many places Guacamole is available upon request, right, and 281 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: the menu also. It costs extra, and they but here's 282 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: the thing, ben at some places I find it obnoxious 283 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: that they tell you you ask for Guacamole, Guacamole is 284 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: two dollars extra. And like, has that ever stopped someone 285 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: from getting Guacamole and the like? Are they? Is that 286 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: some legal thing? They're covering their assets so they don't 287 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: get yelled? I mean, I know it's that, but I 288 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: just find that funny. It's two different sides of the 289 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 1: Guacoli Um Ben do you think? I mean? I think 290 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 1: this maybe makes sense because if I care enough, religiously 291 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: or in some sort of spiritual way, um, about these 292 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: sorts of things, then I would probably care enough to 293 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 1: ask or do my own research. But is that giving 294 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: people too much credit? I don't know, like I'm just wondering, 295 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: like what the logic is here. Yeah, the logic is 296 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: somewhere between let the buyer beware and somewhere between tell 297 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 1: me what I'm actually buying. The rules do change when 298 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: the death in question was violent. A murder or a suicide, 299 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: especially one that's highly publicized, is considered on the same 300 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: level as asbestos or lead paint or water damage, right, 301 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: or maybe a crack and a foundation. It stigmatizes the property. 302 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: This has seen as something that can affect the home value, 303 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: which is so weird, because it's not the fact that 304 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 1: someone died, that a human life was lost there, it's 305 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: the manner in which it was lost. So violent events 306 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,639 Speaker 1: in the past still matter, and too many people they 307 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,119 Speaker 1: matter quite a lot. We have to ask why, like 308 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: if bad vibes are not real, and if we brack 309 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: it off secular concerns like social opprobrium or maybe like 310 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: effects on, I don't know, zip codes and school districts, 311 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: then we have to know the obvious. That's all that's left. People, 312 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: by and large, do seem to believe that bad things, 313 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: bad vibes can remain after the time has passed, after 314 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: those physical components of those events are gone, and it 315 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be a death. It could just be 316 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: negative energy like that. That's what I keep hearing in 317 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 1: the research for this. Death is a major factor, but 318 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: maybe that's not it. Maybe it's how someone lived or 319 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: who the children were abused. Do you have to disclose 320 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: if the previous owner was a real jerk, you know, 321 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: I mean yelling at people and grumping around all the time, 322 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: like this guy lived here his entire life and they 323 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: only tipped nine to waiters for decades. Like no, but honestly, also, 324 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: what you can not man, you cannot. It's a good 325 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: point to matt because it's Um it's the idea that 326 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: great emotional danger, harrowing events can leave some sort of impression, 327 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: and people believe in a lot of this. People will 328 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: take matters into their own hands, attempting to cleanse out 329 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 1: any remaining bad vibes. It's not always a death, it's 330 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: not always something deeply traumatic. It can be a purification thing. Um. 331 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: It can be like imagine you have lived a long 332 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: time with a romantic partner and you're no longer together 333 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: and you're still in the house and you say I 334 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 1: want to breathing and breathe about this bad stuff, so 335 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 1: I'm going to burn this sage, I'm going to say 336 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: some sort of incantation and ritual I will feel better afterwards, 337 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: and for many people that's true. These techniques. Of course 338 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,400 Speaker 1: we'll focus on smudging for a bit today and you'll 339 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: see why. But these techniques can be any other number 340 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 1: of things. There's a panopoly of belief systems and approaches. 341 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: You Know Uh. We talked about the idea of purification 342 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 1: with water, purification with smoke. There's some uh there are 343 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: some practices incorporating uh dirt from one place into another. 344 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: In the states, one of the most popular, oddly now, 345 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: one of the most popular sec secular purification processes is 346 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,639 Speaker 1: a ritual cleansing through the use of smoke known as smudging. 347 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: It's not quite, uh, not quite the same as four 348 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: lemons in the corners right, or lemon in the corners. 349 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: But you guys know smudge. Any of you ever engaged 350 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: in it? Yeah, my my my ex wife, a good 351 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 1: friend of mine, uh, is into that stuff and it's 352 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 1: always offering to do it for me and she's into, 353 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: you know, crystals and pendulum and all that stuff, and 354 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: I fully support it and embrace it. It's not exactly 355 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: my bag, but I see how it it makes her 356 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: feel good and makes her feel like it's, like I said, 357 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: an agency over her her existence and surroundings. I I 358 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 1: certainly put it in the same basket as any other 359 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 1: religious practice. You know, Um, I think it's great and 360 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: you know, there's certainly things about it that I find 361 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:44,440 Speaker 1: super comforting. Smudge is great. Not. You're playing poker, uh, 362 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: with with some cards pretty close to your stern hom 363 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 1: I respect you. I don't know what. What do you mean? 364 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: You're played? Do you be a diplomatic? You got them 365 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: close to your chest. I love it, I respect it. 366 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: It's it's not hurting anyone. Right, as long as we 367 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: as long as we practice beliefs and we're not harming anyone, 368 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: and as long as they are not harming us, then 369 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: do as thou wilt. Uh. This is weirdly, you know, 370 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: the crazy thing about smudging. It's an ancient practice, but 371 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: it's often sadly misunderstood. It's an indigenous practice. It's a 372 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: native practice that goes way, way back, and there are 373 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: a lot of folks out there who, you know, God 374 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: bless them, as they say in the south, bless their hearts, 375 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: they don't understand where it comes from. There are practices 376 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: of old across the world that are quite similar. There's 377 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: something called saning in Scotland. Indigenous Australia also has smoking ceremonies. 378 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: Smudging uses the smoke of certain plant matter, Um, you know, 379 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: like we're talking about earlier. Might be sweet grass, might 380 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: be Red Cedar, might be White Sage, any number of 381 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,640 Speaker 1: things to accomplish any number of goals. It's not always 382 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: to get rid of the bad vibes. It might be 383 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 1: used just to heal a place or to set things 384 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: off on the right note. As you spend time there 385 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 1: and it's important to clock this. Folks different communities use 386 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: different plants and herbs. What is considered super cool and 387 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:30,120 Speaker 1: appropriate in one culture, for one thing, maybe absolutely taboo 388 00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: or misused in another. And, as we'll see, their controversies 389 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: involved in this practice. But, with all that being said, 390 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: take away there are tons and tons of people who 391 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: have sought to enact some sort of purification ritual on 392 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: a place with bad vibes. Here's the question. Does it 393 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 1: actually work? I propose, and pause for word from our sponsor, 394 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: and then tackle this question. Oh, we're gonna tackle it. 395 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: I don't know if we'll answer it. Here's where it 396 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: gets crazy. Well, whether or not this works depends on 397 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,119 Speaker 1: what we mean by work. I know, I know, I know, 398 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 1: where one of those pesky intersections yet again, of science, spirituality, 399 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 1: psychology and belief. Have to be the downers. Now we 400 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,199 Speaker 1: have to be the bad guys in this conversation and 401 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: say yet again, at least as of the time we 402 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: are recording this, no supernatural entities have been universally objectively 403 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: proven to exist. That means yes, the infernal, that means yes, 404 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 1: the divine, that means yes. Ghost all of that stuff 405 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: has not been confirmed. To exist. But don't let that 406 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: make you throw away these rituals, if they mean something 407 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: to you, if you believe in them. There's a reason 408 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: belief is an incredibly powerful thing, for both good and 409 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: for ill. Absolutely it is. Is Truly Um, something that 410 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: we cannot overestimate the power of. We know that it 411 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: can cause changes in the body, like psycho somatic changes 412 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: or the placebo effect, the idea that believing that something 413 00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 1: is happening to you Um psychologically can make it happen 414 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:33,320 Speaker 1: to your body physically. Um. To some folks, the notion 415 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: of explaining how this phenomenon works, the power of belief, 416 00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: is a lot like trying to explain magic, and not 417 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,199 Speaker 1: like not like how a magic trick works, but like 418 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: the idea of magic, of of things beyond our realm 419 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: of understanding, of our realm of experience. You know, in 420 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 1: this in this world, um. To others, though, perhaps the 421 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,280 Speaker 1: more skeptical members of of the crowd, Um, we are 422 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 1: describing what I just mentioned, the idea of the placebo effect. Um. 423 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: But if you keep in mind that the placebo effect 424 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: is a thing, it is a provable thing. It does 425 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: provide results. We know this. Um, even when the participants 426 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: in the experiment know they're getting the Placebo Um. This 427 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: has been confirmed in multiple studies across multiple years. So 428 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: to that end, I mean, can a smudging, you know, 429 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: provide some psychological and and and, by way of of Placebo, 430 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 1: physically even benefits? I think the clear answer is probably. 431 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: We've got some examples of studies that have really done 432 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: a quite excellent job of explaining this definitively. Here's one 433 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: of my favorites. Okay, researchers at Harvard, at Harvard Medical 434 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: Schools Ocean Research Center and Beth Israel deaconess medical center 435 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: found that placebos do significant work. Get this, folks, even 436 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 1: when patients knew they were taking what sometimes called blue 437 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: sky pills. Let's summarize one of these studies from so 438 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: a d patients had irritable bowels, syndrome, IBS, you know 439 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: what I mean. Your gut hurts, you haven't pooping issues, etcetera, etcetera, 440 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: and you're like, I cut out the JOMBA juice. What 441 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: else do I do? I guess I have to enroll 442 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: in this medical study at Harvard. So they divided these 443 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: eight patients into two groups, one of which received no 444 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: treatment whatsoever. They were just being monitored for their swamp 445 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: swamp guts. And the other group got placebos that were 446 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: honestly described as sugar pills, and they were they were told, Hey, 447 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,760 Speaker 1: take these pills twice a day for three weeks. The 448 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: associate professor of Medicine at Harvard, a guy named Ted Kopchuk, 449 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: who was leading this study, he described it pretty plainly actually. 450 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: He emphasized that the participants were told this was a placebo. Now, 451 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: Ted seems like a solid researcher, a brilliant dude and 452 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: a good guy, so I think he'd be fine with 453 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: us playing around and doing a little bit of a 454 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: dramatic recreation of one of his quotes. This really, I think, 455 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,880 Speaker 1: hits home for us when we're talking about the power 456 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: of belief. Uh Not, if I don't want to put 457 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 1: you on the spot, but if you're okay, if you 458 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 1: got a good ted cave voice, good Doctor Cave voice 459 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: that calls out to you, I think it's time to 460 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: shine man. All right, not only did we make it 461 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: absolutely clear that these pills had no active ingredient and 462 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: we're made from inert substances, but we actually had placebo 463 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: printed on the bottle. We told the patients that they 464 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: didn't even have to believe in the placebo effect. Just 465 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 1: take the pills. Beautiful, sounds exactly like Ted Kapchuk. Now 466 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,560 Speaker 1: it's good. Can we can we also just get another 467 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick out of context. Quote just says just take 468 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: the pills, Matt Frederick. This is alluding to an earlier 469 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: guest appearance we did on a show called macro dosing. 470 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: Please check it out. We talked about q and on 471 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: and death. At the end of this three week trial, 472 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: where again people, forty participants of the Group of Eight 473 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: people knew they were taking placebo's. At the end of 474 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: this trial, quote, nearly twice as many patients treated with 475 00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: the Placebo reported symptom relief as compared to the control group. 476 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 1: And Uh, to go on, the patients taking the placebo 477 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: doubled their rates of improvement, emphasizing that on my own 478 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: here uh, to a degree that was, quote, roughly equivalent 479 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: to the effects some of the most powerful a B 480 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:07,520 Speaker 1: s medications. How did I do, Matt? Just take the pills. Sorry, 481 00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: just take your sugar pills. You'll be sweet now. You'll 482 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,239 Speaker 1: take your sugar pills and you'll like it, damn it. 483 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: So this. This sounds like a stretch, right. We're comparing 484 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 1: consuming physical placebos to ritualistic acts of cleansing and that 485 00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: might seem offensive. Well, it's not that much of a stretch. 486 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: It's genuinely tracks in an upcoming episode, by the way, 487 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: Specam of the nature of belief. We're diving deep through 488 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: the Lens of all things Havana Syndrome. Stay tuned for that. 489 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: We have a special guest that will well that we 490 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: hope you like. We like them, we hang out with them. 491 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:49,320 Speaker 1: No spoilers. But the long and short of it is this. 492 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: There is at this point no objective proof that a 493 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:59,280 Speaker 1: cleansing ritual, a spiritual ritual for a house of temple 494 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: or another structure, objectively works. Right. If you go in, 495 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: if you go in after any number of rituals, the 496 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,959 Speaker 1: gravity of the area is going to be the same 497 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: as the rest of the gravity. The air pollution is 498 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: going to be roughly the same, minus whatever air filtration 499 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 1: devices are around. People are still gonna live and die 500 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: the same way physically. But that's only because there is 501 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: at present no scientific definition of what we mean when 502 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: we say bad vibe. You know, like look we've been 503 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,880 Speaker 1: diving into this for a while, right, guys. We know 504 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: that there are some mundane explanations for things that people 505 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: can experience that feel very much like a supernatural experience. Infrasound, 506 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: I think, takes the Platinum Award Right UH, infrasound is 507 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: probably one of the most amazing explanations for the sensation 508 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 1: of experiencing a ghost. But still there's no real definition 509 00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 1: of intelligence for humans. There's no real definition of the soul, 510 00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 1: let alone the angelic or the divine. So I posit 511 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: that if you cannot I'm not even positing it's true, 512 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 1: if you cannot define a thing, you cannot measure it. 513 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: But if it makes someone feel even a little bit 514 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:32,279 Speaker 1: better in this chaotic cavalcade of catastrophe called life, if 515 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:37,839 Speaker 1: it makes him feel better, to do with you. I'm sorry, accidentally, 516 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: but if, if, if it, if you're doing a ritual 517 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: and it doesn't hurt anyone, then would it not be 518 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: Dick Ish? Two, you know, Yuck there yum as chuck 519 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: and Josh would say, like why would you go out 520 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: of your way to disrespect something that means, that is 521 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: meaningful to someone else? They're not asking anything of you. 522 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: They're not hurting you, they're not hurting others. Just be 523 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,320 Speaker 1: a decent person. I mean that's the thing. It sounds 524 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: like maybe we're throwing our limits out with the rose 525 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: water here, but it does carry a deal of psychological heft, 526 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: a great deal, and there are controversies. And if we 527 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: stay in the realm of the spiritual, we are required 528 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: to tell you that there are perceived spiritual dangers for 529 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:35,759 Speaker 1: true believers. You know, not too long ago were privileged 530 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 1: enough to have some in depth conversations with practicing magicians, 531 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:47,479 Speaker 1: one of whom was a chaos magician and talked with 532 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 1: us in great depth about the importance of following rituals 533 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,839 Speaker 1: right and hermetic magicians, uh, thelemic magician will we'll tell 534 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,879 Speaker 1: you the same thing these practitioners. They'll say there are 535 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 1: detailed processes and steps to follow in the realm of 536 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 1: chaos magic, the main thing is intention. But spoiler alert, 537 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: in the realms of all magical practice, intention is key. Well, 538 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, even podcasting there's a certain amount 539 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: of ritual that goes into it. You know whether you 540 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:26,239 Speaker 1: do you do the intro add throws certain recurring motifs 541 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,479 Speaker 1: that that any you know good podcast kind of does. 542 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,920 Speaker 1: I think it's something that I enjoy when I listened 543 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 1: to the podcast that I listened to. I enjoy the 544 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,440 Speaker 1: ritual of it when we're doing ours together. Um, and 545 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: it again kind of implies intent and you sort of 546 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: lay down the sort of like foundational vibe and you 547 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: sort of work within this framework, but then there's all 548 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,279 Speaker 1: this like space in between those parts to do kind 549 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: of to do things differently. Um, I think it's it's 550 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: a it's a very important part of a lot of 551 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: things in life. Ritual. Yeah, and you know, if you're 552 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: a lay person and you don't have someone in your 553 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: family or media group does you know house cleansing on 554 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: a regular basis or burns sage regularly or has a 555 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: dog that will not stop making lots of noise while 556 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 1: you're trying to podcast. Um, you may not know exactly 557 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:13,319 Speaker 1: what to do. Right. You may be like, Oh, well, 558 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,279 Speaker 1: I'm there, I have this sage, I got it at 559 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: this store, I'm gonna burn it and walk around my 560 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: house and do what I've seen in the movies. Right. Um, 561 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: there people in the know will tell you, well, that's 562 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: one step. is like doing that kind of thing. But 563 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: there are other parts to it. I just want to 564 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: see if you guys ever heard of this. One of 565 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 1: the main things I've heard is that if you do 566 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 1: cleanse a house with sage or Poli Santo or one 567 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,160 Speaker 1: of these other I mean cople lavender, one of these 568 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:44,120 Speaker 1: other things, you need to burn other things afterwards. I 569 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: didn't know this. I didn't know this is the thing. 570 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 1: You need to burn something afterwards, because the sage or 571 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 1: Paulo Santo is neutralizing the energy and then the other 572 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: thing is putting positive energy in the space where negative 573 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: energy once was. I didn't know that. I would have 574 00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,760 Speaker 1: I would have smudged a house completely wrong. Well, yeah, 575 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: I've I've heard that as well. Matt Uh, you're nailing 576 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: about the importance of steps, processes, ingredients, intention, preparation and execution. 577 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: The True believers will say that to do any of 578 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: these steps incorrectly risk more than having a bum cleansing. 579 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 1: You might not just be ineffective, you might, they argue, 580 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: run into negative consequences, problems. Uh, and then again, you know, 581 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,320 Speaker 1: we have to mention the power of belief. The placebo effect, 582 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 1: as we call it, often can function like any other technology. 583 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:54,799 Speaker 1: It can be very helpful and very dangerous, and this 584 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,960 Speaker 1: is not just in terms of vague physical symptoms like 585 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: malaise or a headache. UH, yeah, I know we talked 586 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: about off air, but have we talked on air? We 587 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: must have at some point about at some bone point. 588 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: We must have talked about the Kardita in Australia, and 589 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: forgive my pronunciation, folks, I am not Australian at current. Uh. 590 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: These are indigenous practitioners of the Ante People in Australia, 591 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 1: indigenous group. They're known for a practice called bone pointing, 592 00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: which is a method for meeting out spiritual justice, and 593 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: if you look at anthropological reports, which or of course, 594 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,280 Speaker 1: a little biased, you can see that there are cases 595 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:48,600 Speaker 1: as recently as the nineteen fifties wherein people have apparently 596 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: died with no attributable physical cause other than the fact 597 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: that they were cursed and they saw themselves getting cursed. 598 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:04,239 Speaker 1: The way bone pointing works is that the practitioner crafts 599 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,600 Speaker 1: a special pair of hunting shoes or slippers and then 600 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,759 Speaker 1: crafts a specific sort of device. I don't know why 601 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,319 Speaker 1: I'm doing this, like I'm all of a sudden making 602 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,720 Speaker 1: a bone, but it's uh, it could be kangaroo, EMU 603 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 1: human their cases, where it's made out of wood and 604 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 1: it's made with intention and special ritual. The hunter finds 605 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: the person they point at, uh, the intended recipient of 606 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: the curse, and deliver the rest of the chant. And 607 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: for the true believers this is lethal. Uh, it's death 608 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,759 Speaker 1: by the power, apparently, of belief. Some form of this 609 00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,359 Speaker 1: practice does, by the way, exists in the modern day. 610 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 1: I found that in two thousand and four someone pointed 611 00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 1: the bone, as it's called, to curse Australian Prime Minister 612 00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:04,000 Speaker 1: John How word, former Australian Prime Minister John Howard, who is, 613 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: as of the time of this recording, still alive. So 614 00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 1: this the spiritual side. I guess what we're saying is 615 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: if you believe in something, if you really believe in 616 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,640 Speaker 1: it and you're not being performative for, you know, like 617 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: clicks or likes or whatever on social media, then move 618 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:24,839 Speaker 1: correctly and as safely as you can, consult the communities 619 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 1: from what you given practice originates. And if you are 620 00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,560 Speaker 1: coming from a spiritual perspective, this is key. If you're 621 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: coming from a skeptical perspective, then this is just a 622 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: matter of respect, and I think that's equally important. Respect 623 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: your primary sources there. Yeah, and respect where you point 624 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,439 Speaker 1: that bone. Respect where you point that bone. You better 625 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 1: not be pointing that bone or anybody if you're not 626 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,480 Speaker 1: ready to use it. That's all I'm saying. Well, also, 627 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: if I'm tracking these euphemisms correctly, I should say consent 628 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: is key. Informed Consent, just more treating it like a weapon. 629 00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:02,799 Speaker 1: But yeah, that too. And this leads us to another conversation. 630 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,200 Speaker 1: It's another point of controversy. It's far less spiritual and 631 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: far more secular. What are we talking about? We'll tell 632 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:19,359 Speaker 1: you after a word from our sponsors. All right, we're back. 633 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: WHO's been to Bonaru? Who saw those pictures of the 634 00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: War Bonnets? You know all all that stuff. But What 635 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: War Bonnet? It's uh, it's the headdress you've probably seen 636 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 1: with a bunch of eagle feathers often. I think that 637 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,439 Speaker 1: more I think it's Coachella more that gets a bad 638 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 1: rap for that kind of stuff than Bonaro, now that 639 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,959 Speaker 1: the Coachella is the California kind of influencer music fest 640 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,600 Speaker 1: that I think it's a lot of like, has in 641 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,040 Speaker 1: the past gotten a lot of flak for folks coming 642 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: out dressing in, you know, culturally appropriated at time. I'm 643 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:57,680 Speaker 1: sure it goes on a rate too. Well then, my 644 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 1: heart felt apologies to Bot around and thank you for 645 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,759 Speaker 1: their correction. There not like this. This is where we 646 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: talked about appropriation. Appropriations a real thing. Take smudging, for example. SMUDGING, again, 647 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: is an umbrella term for a vast and profound array 648 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 1: of differing and quite specific rituals and practices. I mean, okay, 649 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to be a jerk, he says, as 650 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: he proceeds to say something very jerk like in the West, 651 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: I found that smudging practices, as enacted by many non 652 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: indigenous communities, are they're roughly descended from ancient native practices, 653 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 1: but they're descended from it. It's kind of the same 654 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:53,480 Speaker 1: way that, like Taco Bell is descended from actual Mexican food. 655 00:43:54,239 --> 00:44:00,960 Speaker 1: It's a modern, sometimes uninformed take on deep spiritual beliefs 656 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 1: and and things have been around for a much, much 657 00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,279 Speaker 1: longer time. I mean, am I being a jerk? Am 658 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: I being correct? Little Column A, Little Column B, I 659 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: don't know. You're totally correct. I mean it's been commodified, 660 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: just like anything else that that picks up steam culturally 661 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,520 Speaker 1: gets commodified. I mean, it's the kind of stuff you 662 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,879 Speaker 1: can buy. All this stuff, like a spencer gifts at 663 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,839 Speaker 1: them all. Uh. Is that inherently bad? Is Is it 664 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,279 Speaker 1: just spreading, you know, a a practice that has, you know, 665 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: positive influence perhaps. And and is a is a way 666 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,439 Speaker 1: of centering and kind of calming and and and something 667 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,520 Speaker 1: that could potentially be helpful for people. Is that inherently bad? Well, 668 00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: it depends on your definition of appropriation. Like if if 669 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 1: something is from a a sacred ritual of a very 670 00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,760 Speaker 1: specific indigenous people, like, for example, the head Dresser's talking about, 671 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:55,120 Speaker 1: probably not cool. But then again we're talking about sacred 672 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,280 Speaker 1: rituals as well with one of these materials like like White, uh, 673 00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,240 Speaker 1: white sage and June prayer and Paolo Santo and stuff. 674 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 1: So you could say it is bad, but I I 675 00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:08,440 Speaker 1: don't know, it's hard. I think there's a line and 676 00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 1: it's important. It's about intent as well. Think about the cocaine. Well, 677 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:14,840 Speaker 1: in one of these episodes we talked about cocaine recently. 678 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: We talked about how much the people who actually harvest 679 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,560 Speaker 1: the substance that becomes the cocaine, how much they make, 680 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 1: you know, on a per kilo basis, or something like that, 681 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,160 Speaker 1: and how ridiculously low that amount of money was. It's 682 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,040 Speaker 1: the same thing with any of these other substances that 683 00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:37,280 Speaker 1: are harvested from indigenous lands, right. I mean you're taking 684 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: a lot, especially if you're a big corporation and you're 685 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:42,960 Speaker 1: going to be putting Paulo Santo and stores across, you know, countries, 686 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,919 Speaker 1: across the world or in your you know, Spencer's gifts 687 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 1: or whatever. Um, it becomes a real problem because you 688 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: can only source the materials from a limited number of spaces, 689 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,400 Speaker 1: and if those spaces are, you know, um run by 690 00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:59,080 Speaker 1: and occupied by indigenous people's then they're likely getting a very, 691 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:01,879 Speaker 1: very short end of that stick. Well, and not even 692 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,919 Speaker 1: not to mention that things like Palosanto do come from, 693 00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,920 Speaker 1: to your point, Matt, very specific regions. They come from 694 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 1: dry tropical forests, Um, and that's where you get them. 695 00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:17,240 Speaker 1: And if, if all of the PALOCANTO sticks are are being, 696 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: you know, chopped out of those forests and then shipped 697 00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,480 Speaker 1: over here to be sold at Spencer gifts or tight 698 00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:27,280 Speaker 1: eye rosy or whatever, Um, that's a problem for deforestation. 699 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,359 Speaker 1: So there's no doubt that smudging, or some version of it, 700 00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:36,840 Speaker 1: particularly burning, varieties of sage, white sage. As was foreshadowed earlier, 701 00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: it has become commercialized. There are big, big brands like 702 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: urban outfitters, most famous for ripping off independent artists, uh, 703 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 1: and West Elm, most famous for overcharging for kitchen gadgets. Uh. 704 00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:55,040 Speaker 1: They have sold sage sticks and there's a dirty trade 705 00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:59,200 Speaker 1: to it we'll get to. You can even order uh, 706 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,839 Speaker 1: a smudge kit on Amazon in case you, like us, 707 00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,160 Speaker 1: are still very worried over whether or not jeff will 708 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 1: still make it to space. Sort of, kind of for 709 00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 1: eleven minutes. But if intention is key, if we have 710 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 1: established that and agree with it, we have to question 711 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:18,000 Speaker 1: the intention of these entities. And if you are a 712 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:24,560 Speaker 1: spiritual person, ask yourself how much uh, that intention washes 713 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:28,160 Speaker 1: into your own when you when you drink from that well, 714 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: look honestly, and you know what edit me here at 715 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: mission control. A Corporation doesn't give us whether or not 716 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: you are practicing an ancient, divine or uh, spiritual belief system, 717 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: even if your family has practiced it for untold generations. 718 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,440 Speaker 1: They want to know how much of a product they 719 00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:51,439 Speaker 1: can sell you. And that, my friends, has consequences all 720 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,440 Speaker 1: its own. That's the next controversy. The world is literally 721 00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 1: running out of sage. Demand for White Sage, which is 722 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 1: native to southern California, has led to this thing, which 723 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:09,359 Speaker 1: was a common shrub, being wildly over harvested. There is 724 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:13,200 Speaker 1: right now, as weird as it sounds, a black market 725 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,600 Speaker 1: for white sage, member of the men family. You would 726 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,680 Speaker 1: not be especially impressed if you just walked by it 727 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 1: on the road in the wild back in the day. 728 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,080 Speaker 1: It's a SHRUB. It has tapering like pretty neat looking 729 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:31,360 Speaker 1: silver leaves and it grows like many shrubs. It grows 730 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:36,440 Speaker 1: back pretty Um pretty vigorously when it's pruned up to 731 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,560 Speaker 1: a certain point, and that you know. That aspect of 732 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,560 Speaker 1: shrubbery and plants is part of the reason. There's this 733 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,520 Speaker 1: myth about hair growing back twice as thick when people 734 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: shave parts of their body, but at this point that 735 00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,359 Speaker 1: is not true. This supply chain, though, for this thing, 736 00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:59,880 Speaker 1: it's pretty unregulated. It's like how would you regulate crab grass? 737 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 1: How would you regulate any other any other kind of 738 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:09,360 Speaker 1: common plant that grows in a specific region? But because 739 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:13,319 Speaker 1: it's unregulated and because corporations got in and saw a 740 00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:16,760 Speaker 1: cash grab, there are tons of people who are playing 741 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:21,040 Speaker 1: their unethical part, and this is messed up because it 742 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:26,040 Speaker 1: means native communities who are genuinely practicing their own belief 743 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,959 Speaker 1: systems rather than cloud chasing on social media. They're left 744 00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,879 Speaker 1: out in the cold, like sage boacher's or a thing. 745 00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,440 Speaker 1: There are people who are just driving by and finding 746 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,080 Speaker 1: little shrubs of sage, which used to grow like shoulder high, 747 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,440 Speaker 1: and now it's uncommon to see it more than Waiste 748 00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,799 Speaker 1: high at best. UH, they are out there and they're 749 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,200 Speaker 1: taking the sage. Is it specifically because of this? Just, 750 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,640 Speaker 1: you know, specific things in the soil due to the climate? 751 00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:56,080 Speaker 1: Is something that could be growing in greenhouses. Let's say 752 00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:57,560 Speaker 1: I was really in the sage and I wanted to 753 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: grow my own. It's not as easy as they growing rosemary, 754 00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,080 Speaker 1: which grows like a weed and a super resilience. was 755 00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,719 Speaker 1: wondering if there are any ways around this. There are. 756 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,040 Speaker 1: One would have to grow it to scale, though, and 757 00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:17,480 Speaker 1: just like Um, just like the passenger pigeon and the Buffalo, 758 00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of people are not worried 759 00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:24,640 Speaker 1: about sustainability. They're not trying to grow it on their own. 760 00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:31,400 Speaker 1: They're taking it for a short term monetary gain. Consequences 761 00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 1: be damned. Their intentions are bad, and if you believe 762 00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:38,600 Speaker 1: in the spiritual side of this argument, then you know 763 00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:43,200 Speaker 1: that bad intentions, just like bad vibes, can carry on 764 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:46,440 Speaker 1: over time. Come on to grief, I want to shout 765 00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,080 Speaker 1: them out. Come on to grief. wrote a cool article 766 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:55,920 Speaker 1: over on over advice, and noted that almost all of 767 00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 1: the white sage being sold commercially, like the vast man 768 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,279 Speaker 1: worthy of it, is harvested from nature. You know it's there. 769 00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:10,480 Speaker 1: It's unregulated, rather, and the corporate euphemism for this is wildcrafted. 770 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 1: That means that someone takes it and then it goes 771 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,200 Speaker 1: through middlemen and it goes through wholesalers and then it 772 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,439 Speaker 1: hits the public and, just like any other trade, uh, 773 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,960 Speaker 1: it's probably getting stepped on, as they say with cocaine. UH, 774 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: every step of the way, step of the way anyway, Jeez. Uh. 775 00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:37,359 Speaker 1: So this is often sold to the public by companies 776 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:44,439 Speaker 1: that market themselves as environmentally conscious, right or oh, we're 777 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,759 Speaker 1: so respectful of this. That and the third greenwashing. Green 778 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 1: washing is another great word for it. So just for 779 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,600 Speaker 1: a moment, if we could exercise a little bit of empathy, 780 00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:58,680 Speaker 1: let's pretend we grew up with these practices in our 781 00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,560 Speaker 1: own community and back in the day, for the entirety 782 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:04,839 Speaker 1: of our lives and the lives of those who came 783 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,160 Speaker 1: before us. When the time came, we would just go 784 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:13,120 Speaker 1: out and we would get our cedar, our sweet grass 785 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:16,840 Speaker 1: or stage or any number of herbs and plant matter 786 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:22,960 Speaker 1: and we would get it together for the appropriate event. 787 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:28,200 Speaker 1: But now native communities are finding that non native folks 788 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:32,120 Speaker 1: are not just taking this stuff, but they're threatening legal 789 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:36,879 Speaker 1: actions against the very same communities that taught them these 790 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,640 Speaker 1: practices in the first place. That's super messed up. You 791 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,799 Speaker 1: don't have to you know, you don't have to have 792 00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:48,280 Speaker 1: a political horse in the race. Uh, and you don't. 793 00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,200 Speaker 1: Hopefully you don't have to like smudge your version of 794 00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:57,000 Speaker 1: the Internet to understand how paradoxical and unjust that seems. 795 00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: What are the what's the basis for these threats about 796 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:04,279 Speaker 1: land usage? Is it about branding? Like I'm fascinated and 797 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:09,360 Speaker 1: confused property rights. So let's say you're going down a 798 00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:13,880 Speaker 1: state road somewhere and maybe a rural area, and you 799 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,279 Speaker 1: see some wild stage and you pick it up and 800 00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,720 Speaker 1: then someone comes out and says, Hey, that's on my 801 00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:25,680 Speaker 1: my property. Or whatever. Then they would threaten action and 802 00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:29,440 Speaker 1: they might have the juice, the juice with law enforcement, 803 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,359 Speaker 1: to enforce that action. It's kind of like, Um, if 804 00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:38,160 Speaker 1: you're walking, and I recommend everybody walk as far and 805 00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,680 Speaker 1: as often as you can, but if you're walking somewhere 806 00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:46,840 Speaker 1: and you pass by, Um, some flowers, right would and 807 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:52,120 Speaker 1: you might want to pick one. If someone catches you, 808 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:55,400 Speaker 1: someone sees you picking that, then are you a thief, 809 00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,719 Speaker 1: just someone who likes flowers? I don't know, it's I 810 00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:03,120 Speaker 1: think it depends on are they wildflowers, that that occurred naturally, 811 00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,560 Speaker 1: or is it something that someone has spent time and 812 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:10,240 Speaker 1: effort cultivating, like when the prince stole the witches cabbage 813 00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:15,160 Speaker 1: and Uh Rapunzel. You know, that was definitely some degree 814 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,879 Speaker 1: of thieving. Um. It's an interesting question now that who 815 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,439 Speaker 1: owns you know, pocacontas would ask this in the color 816 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,520 Speaker 1: of the wind. Who who owns the earth? Is it possible? Yeah, 817 00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:29,560 Speaker 1: so this may sound a bit sanctimonious for some of 818 00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,759 Speaker 1: US listening today, but it is crucial to understand that 819 00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:39,480 Speaker 1: these are real world problems and intergenerational consider something that 820 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:43,279 Speaker 1: many folks don't know. From eighteen ninety two all the 821 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:50,000 Speaker 1: way up until the United States banned native communities from 822 00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:55,720 Speaker 1: practicing their own religious beliefs, including burning siege or sweet 823 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,960 Speaker 1: grass or Cedar. This only changed a few decades ago. 824 00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,799 Speaker 1: History is much, much closer than it appears in your 825 00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:06,640 Speaker 1: rear view mirror. How much sage do you think was 826 00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:11,160 Speaker 1: burned between eight and ninety eight? I bet you in 827 00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,600 Speaker 1: private housing a ton of sage was burned. Ton of 828 00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,880 Speaker 1: private rituals were occurring, just like quiet and in the shadows. 829 00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:24,800 Speaker 1: Repression leads to innovation, yes, uh, and necessity has always 830 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,840 Speaker 1: been the mother of an invention. Right UH. The question is, 831 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,120 Speaker 1: why does this matter? We went from talking about whether 832 00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:36,680 Speaker 1: or not clearing a house through spiritual or ritualistic means, 833 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:44,680 Speaker 1: whether it works, quote Unquote, works, to the egregious, egregious 834 00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:49,560 Speaker 1: injustice is visited against native American and first nation communities. 835 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:53,520 Speaker 1: This matters for several reasons. I think a lot of 836 00:55:53,560 --> 00:56:00,160 Speaker 1: people don't know that native communities and their beliefs were 837 00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,080 Speaker 1: treated as the stuff uncle Sam doesn't want you to 838 00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:08,440 Speaker 1: know for literally decades. No one talks about it. Decades 839 00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,799 Speaker 1: people were saying you can't do that here, until they 840 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:15,359 Speaker 1: realize they can make money off of it and then 841 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,040 Speaker 1: they said we're going to make money off of it. 842 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,960 Speaker 1: I hope that's okay and I don't know. I mean 843 00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,680 Speaker 1: belief is so powerful, like if you take an unethical tact, 844 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:30,280 Speaker 1: we see this all the time. What if you leverage 845 00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,960 Speaker 1: the belief system to force action on the part of believers? 846 00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,359 Speaker 1: It happens more often than you think. What, like that's 847 00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:41,239 Speaker 1: how cults work, right. What if you what if you 848 00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,240 Speaker 1: found solace, though, if you're more skeptical, what if you said, 849 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,560 Speaker 1: I don't believe and insert this thing here, but the 850 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:53,040 Speaker 1: act of whatever we have done has helped me process 851 00:56:53,560 --> 00:56:57,759 Speaker 1: some previous trauma. And then, of course, what if you're 852 00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,040 Speaker 1: a corporation? Yeah, and as I as I look through 853 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,520 Speaker 1: Amazon listings for smudge sticks and this kind of stuff, 854 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:12,080 Speaker 1: it does appear there are some organizations approaching corporate status 855 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:16,080 Speaker 1: Um that are growing the stuff on very, very large, 856 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:21,920 Speaker 1: you know, tracts of land on California and absolutely selling 857 00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:26,240 Speaker 1: a bit of cultural appropriation along with the material itself, 858 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:31,000 Speaker 1: like things like, you know, smudge feathers and and guide 859 00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,400 Speaker 1: books containing like, you know, ritualistic blessings and things like that, 860 00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,160 Speaker 1: and certain stones and a lot of stuff just does 861 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,960 Speaker 1: feel a little bit lifted from the culture and then 862 00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,280 Speaker 1: sort of packaged and sold in. That part doesn't rub 863 00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:48,840 Speaker 1: me particularly well. Do you get rubbed? Well? Rubbed right 864 00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:52,080 Speaker 1: doesn't rub me particularly right. So what if you were 865 00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:55,080 Speaker 1: a corporation? To what degree would you be willing to 866 00:57:55,160 --> 00:58:02,280 Speaker 1: sacrifice genuine belief system in some alchemy like? To what 867 00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,880 Speaker 1: degree would you be comfortable to modifying ancient practices into 868 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:11,720 Speaker 1: dollar signs and bottom lines? To be completely candid, folks, 869 00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:16,000 Speaker 1: we have been asked to do things that we felt unethical, 870 00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,960 Speaker 1: to host TV franchises that purport to hunt ghost or 871 00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:26,080 Speaker 1: track down spirits, and to this day we've refused Um 872 00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:29,080 Speaker 1: and we've probably lost money doing it. But we think 873 00:58:29,080 --> 00:58:33,120 Speaker 1: the vast majority of these programs are exploiting people and 874 00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:37,560 Speaker 1: their insincere and aiding and abetting those unclean acts against 875 00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:42,640 Speaker 1: folks in dire straits. It strikes us as profoundly offensive. 876 00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:47,160 Speaker 1: We believe anybody can and should perform as their spirituality 877 00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,920 Speaker 1: ask and indeed compels. We believe it is both good 878 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:56,920 Speaker 1: and just to defend personal spiritual practices. And you know, 879 00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,120 Speaker 1: don't Yuck someone's Um if you're trying to make a 880 00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:05,560 Speaker 1: buck off someone's beliefs. We believe you have some serious 881 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:09,360 Speaker 1: soul searching ahead. But you know, there it is again, 882 00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,640 Speaker 1: the power of belief. Hey, look, you can. I totally 883 00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,280 Speaker 1: I feel you on that, ben but Hey, if you're 884 00:59:16,280 --> 00:59:18,120 Speaker 1: out there and you need someone hunting ghosts for you 885 00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:23,480 Speaker 1: on television, just give me a call. Sell. And so 886 00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:27,040 Speaker 1: what do you think, folks? Have you or someone you 887 00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:31,120 Speaker 1: know ever used a ritual of some sort to spiritually 888 00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:35,080 Speaker 1: purify a home? What was your experience? Do you find 889 00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:40,640 Speaker 1: it was valuable? Um? Do you feel that folks who 890 00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:45,600 Speaker 1: are commodifying this sort of thing are sincere in their commodification, 891 00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:49,160 Speaker 1: or do you think they're out to make a quick buck? 892 00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:52,360 Speaker 1: Would love to hear about your experience. Thank you for 893 00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,040 Speaker 1: tuning in. We try to be easy to find online. 894 00:59:55,360 --> 00:59:58,400 Speaker 1: That's right. You can find us on twitter, Youtube and Facebook, 895 00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,800 Speaker 1: out of the handle conspiracy stuff on Instagram, where conspiracy 896 01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,360 Speaker 1: stuff show. If you've got a phone and you want 897 01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,920 Speaker 1: to call us and tell us how you use lemons 898 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:11,120 Speaker 1: to detect negative energy and cleanse negative energy, you can 899 01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:14,600 Speaker 1: call one eight three three St d w y t K. 900 01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,720 Speaker 1: it's a voicemail system. When you call in, please give 901 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:19,680 Speaker 1: us a cool nickname. We don't care what it is, 902 01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:21,680 Speaker 1: we're excited to hear it. Let us know if we 903 01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,000 Speaker 1: can use your message and voice and name on the air. 904 01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:27,560 Speaker 1: And those three minutes. Just fill them up however you'd 905 01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,520 Speaker 1: like to, and if you've got more to say they 906 01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:31,480 Speaker 1: can fit in there. Why not? Instead give us a 907 01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:35,320 Speaker 1: good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at IHEART RADIO 908 01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:56,280 Speaker 1: DOT com. Stuff they don't want you to know is 909 01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:59,360 Speaker 1: a production of I heart radio. For more podcasts from 910 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,880 Speaker 1: my heart radio, visit the I heart radio APP, apple 911 01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:04,400 Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.