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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I,
Speaker 1: of course Am Steve as usual, joined by Hey, and
Speaker 1: once again we have another mystery for you this week.
Speaker 1: We it's as I always do, I'm pulling for the
Speaker 1: listeners suggestions and this was suggested by Adam and Matt originally,
Speaker 1: and I'm sure a bunch of other people, but we
Speaker 1: didn't have room for your name in the list. But
Speaker 1: the story that we're going to talk about this week,
Speaker 1: as Joe has dubbed it, is the murders of Mary Morris. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's actually possible to murder somebody more than once. Well,
Speaker 1: it sort of sounds that way, So let's just hop
Speaker 1: right into our mystery. Our mystery begins on Thursday, October twelve.
Speaker 1: In two thousand, forty eight year old woman named Mary
Speaker 1: Henderson Morris got up for a normal work day at
Speaker 1: her job at Chase Bank on the west side of Houston, Texas.
Speaker 1: Her husband j walked her out to her Chevy Ilumina
Speaker 1: at six am, when she typically left, and he watched
Speaker 1: her drive out of the driveway, turn onto the road,
Speaker 1: and presumably drive off to the place where she normally
Speaker 1: stopped to get gas in the morning. Why did he
Speaker 1: walk her to her car, because that's just something they did.
Speaker 1: It's probably you know, walk out in Some folks do that.
Speaker 1: They walk their their spouse out of their car and
Speaker 1: give them their coffee and a kiss and a hug
Speaker 1: and then off they go. And that's what he did.
Speaker 1: Like me, who just grumpily like rolls in out of
Speaker 1: my bed and into the car. And yeah, and your
Speaker 1: boyfriend says, don't get killed exactly, So he watches her
Speaker 1: drive away from their home in Burnett Bay. She may
Speaker 1: have been seen at a gas station shortly after she
Speaker 1: left her home, and that gas station was at the
Speaker 1: junction of Interstate ten and Thompson Road, and there's a
Speaker 1: bunch of gas stations right in that area. But she
Speaker 1: from there presumably would have gone on her normal drive
Speaker 1: heading west across the city to where her job was.
Speaker 1: She never got there. Well, the thing is is that
Speaker 1: Mary and Jay were there very close, as we've realized
Speaker 1: from his walking her out every morning, and they would
Speaker 1: talk on the phone several times a day. But he
Speaker 1: made several calls to her cell phone and she never answered,
Speaker 1: and she thought something was a little off about that.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's maybe it's a big day, busy day, whatever,
Speaker 1: Except that at about two o'clock, somebody called the house
Speaker 1: looking for Mary, and not knowing who it was, j
Speaker 1: just said, well, she's at work. He would later learn
Speaker 1: that that person was actually from Chase, trying to find
Speaker 1: out where their employee was. It seems like they would
Speaker 1: identify themselves, though, doesn't it doesn't It seem like they
Speaker 1: would say, hello, husband of our employee, this is your
Speaker 1: wife's employee, or we are just wondering where your wife is.
Speaker 1: If it was a certain level of manager, I could
Speaker 1: see that, if it was a certain uh employee, that
Speaker 1: would say in charge of employees scheduling, and why hasn't
Speaker 1: this person showed up? And I'm always calling on the
Speaker 1: yahoos who don't show up. Maybe not so much. I
Speaker 1: just feel I get you. I'm not not in disagreement
Speaker 1: that didn't themselves. So to this person calls but doesn't
Speaker 1: identify themselves. After after, I think it's about four o'clock,
Speaker 1: you know, Jay and Mary's daughter Maryland, They're getting worried
Speaker 1: where is she? She hasn't come home. Eventually they find
Speaker 1: her cell phone in the house, so now they're thinking,
Speaker 1: oh God, she's been in a car accident or broken down.
Speaker 1: I'm presuming it must have been I hope, you would hope.
Speaker 1: But at this point they're thinking, well, she's had something's
Speaker 1: going wrong and she can't get ahold of us. So
Speaker 1: at about five o'clock, Jay calls the police and he
Speaker 1: reports her as missing. About that same time, there are
Speaker 1: the Sheriff's department. They get a call about an abandoned
Speaker 1: vehicle that's been burned. That car, which is about three
Speaker 1: miles or that equates to about five kilometers east of
Speaker 1: there of Mary and Jay's home, which is the opposite
Speaker 1: direction of where she worked. Absolutely correct. She worked on
Speaker 1: the west side of town. His car is east of
Speaker 1: where they live. The call comes, the cops get this
Speaker 1: call about this burned out vehicle. Well, earlier in the day,
Speaker 1: the fire department had actually got called for smoke in
Speaker 1: that same area. The call had come in at about
Speaker 1: ten twenty am. The fire department said it looked like
Speaker 1: it was burning leaves. It's you know, it's October that
Speaker 1: people are burning leaves, and they didn't bother to investigate,
Speaker 1: but that burning leaves usually smell burning rubber. Uh well,
Speaker 1: burning leaves tend to be very smoky, I am pretty
Speaker 1: sure is what that boils down to. But the long
Speaker 1: and the short of it is is that the fire
Speaker 1: department doesn't go check it out. But when the cops
Speaker 1: go to check out this burned vehicle, what they find
Speaker 1: is a vehicle that has apparently been soaked in some
Speaker 1: kind of accelerant and lit on fire. And the fire
Speaker 1: has been so intense that it has melted every piece
Speaker 1: of rubber on the vehicle, like the tires came off
Speaker 1: of the car. The heat was so intense inside of
Speaker 1: the vehicle. I gotta get some of that stuff. It
Speaker 1: must have been. But inside of the car they find
Speaker 1: a body and they don't know who it is. But
Speaker 1: eventually what they're able to do using tooth fragments that
Speaker 1: they reconstruct, they determine that indeed, it is Mary's Body's body. Well, no,
Speaker 1: it's Mary because it's her teeth in her skull, so
Speaker 1: they know it's her. Well, you know, somebody could have
Speaker 1: put them there. But okay, oh you too. Cut it
Speaker 1: out right away, and you're already doing this to just
Speaker 1: monkeying around on things beca nope, never, I am. I
Speaker 1: am an upstanding mystery citizen. I don't do that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. She's alive on an island with Dorothy, so anyway,
Speaker 1: she does not go to Dorothy Island. She is indeed
Speaker 1: found in the car. Like I said, they don't know.
Speaker 1: They figured out, but because of the fire, they don't
Speaker 1: know what the cause of death is. I mean, her
Speaker 1: body has been burned so severely. There is nothing about
Speaker 1: Mary's life though, that is an apparent motive for why
Speaker 1: someone would want to do something like this tour. I mean,
Speaker 1: the police said the only thing they can confirm that
Speaker 1: are missing is her purse and her wedding ring. But
Speaker 1: could they actually confirm that the purse was missing? I am,
Speaker 1: I have I thought the same thing. I have to
Speaker 1: guess that they would have found a pile of melted
Speaker 1: whatever the material is in the plastics that your credit
Speaker 1: cards and all of that stuff are made up in
Speaker 1: your handle to yeah, that all there should have been
Speaker 1: a pile of that detritus and there wasn't. Or debris,
Speaker 1: not detritis, but of debris. So that's why I thought
Speaker 1: the same thing. And now the other question crimes seeing
Speaker 1: no gas can or anything like that was found in
Speaker 1: or near the vehicle, not that I know of. Okay, So,
Speaker 1: like I said, though, is that you know we just
Speaker 1: discussed the purse, but also her wedding ring. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about her wedding ring more in detail later because that
Speaker 1: is something that people point at is kind of a
Speaker 1: seedy or nefarious thing, and we'll we'll deal with that
Speaker 1: when the time comes. I have to tell you now, though,
Speaker 1: that the next thing that I'm going to say, which
Speaker 1: happens a day or so after Mary's body has found,
Speaker 1: is always referred to as alleged. You know. The resist
Speaker 1: is something that I cannot confirm, but I have to
Speaker 1: share it because it's in all of the stories. And
Speaker 1: that is that supposedly, supposedly, allegedly somebody called the Houston
Speaker 1: Chronicle and they said something to the fact of they
Speaker 1: got the wrong Mary Morris, ostensibly exactly that's what you
Speaker 1: were looking for, it is, of course, that's always the
Speaker 1: word now. I think it goes without saying that. Obviously,
Speaker 1: Jay and Maryland they're both devastated by Mary's death because
Speaker 1: there's there's nothing that seems to have motivated this. It
Speaker 1: seems very random. She didn't live any kind of crazy life.
Speaker 1: She did work for a bank, but it wasn't as
Speaker 1: if it was a really crazy, crashed time. So after
Speaker 1: her funeral. Maryland, her daughter, calls the Medical Examiner's office,
Speaker 1: this is on the sixteenth of October, to see about
Speaker 1: picking up her mother's effects, at which point they told
Speaker 1: her that the effects and the body would be available
Speaker 1: at the same time, which freaked her out because they've
Speaker 1: just had a funeral and she can't understand what they're
Speaker 1: talking about, and so she goes down there. No, she
Speaker 1: goes down the Medical Examiner's office and they show her
Speaker 1: a body which is not her mother. Is it Mary
Speaker 1: Morris though it is indeed Mary Morris. It is Mary
Speaker 1: McGinnis Morris, So we have to Mary Morris's. Mary McGinnis
Speaker 1: Morris is a thirty nine year old wife and mother
Speaker 1: who also lived in the Greater Houston area. She didn't
Speaker 1: know Mary Henderson Morris at all. The two didn't know
Speaker 1: each other. Maybe for the sake of easiness, it might
Speaker 1: be easier to call him Mary one and Mary too.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna stick with Henderson and McGinnis. Okay,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be better because one and two is easy
Speaker 1: for me to confuse. McGuinness lived about ten miles away
Speaker 1: from Henderson. McGinnis originally was from West Virginia, but she
Speaker 1: had moved to the area to take job with Union Carbide.
Speaker 1: She was a nurse practitioner and she had taken the
Speaker 1: position of medical director with that company, so she had
Speaker 1: moved there for that job. Sounds like a good job.
Speaker 1: On October fifte which was a Sunday, McGinnis ran a
Speaker 1: number of errands. Uh, you know, it's kind of a
Speaker 1: normal Sunday. She made a couple of different stops before
Speaker 1: she stopped off at Union Carbide to give a flu
Speaker 1: shot to her friend Lori Gemmil and from there she
Speaker 1: went to the Ecker drug Store where at about five
Speaker 1: thirty at night, she called Lorie and told her she
Speaker 1: saw someone who has given her the creeves and said
Speaker 1: she was going to go back to the office and
Speaker 1: log out of her computer and then head home. About
Speaker 1: twelve minutes later, a call comes into one from McGuinness
Speaker 1: and she is as reported, she's in a frantic state.
Speaker 1: We don't know what's said on the call. We don't
Speaker 1: know what's heard on that call because that call has
Speaker 1: never been released. But that's the last contact that anybody
Speaker 1: can recorded contact of Mary McGinnis, And we don't know
Speaker 1: if she logged out of her computer don't, so we
Speaker 1: don't know if she probably didn't make it to work,
Speaker 1: but maybe I would presume her work was about a
Speaker 1: five plus mile drive away from the Eckert if I
Speaker 1: remember right where she where she was found was at
Speaker 1: least a five minute or more drive from Eckerd. So
Speaker 1: for her to have been able to get back to
Speaker 1: work and then to that spot seems like a stretch
Speaker 1: to think she'd ever got back to work. Yeah, or
Speaker 1: she got back to work, logged out back to the
Speaker 1: parking lot, then called nine one one. That doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1: I was just wondering how close, if any, she got
Speaker 1: to work at all. I don't think that she did.
Speaker 1: McGinnis's husband, Mike Morris, he reported her missing that evening
Speaker 1: when she didn't come home. He said that he tried
Speaker 1: to call her continually but he never got any answer.
Speaker 1: And it was but it was ringing straight to voicemail.
Speaker 1: It was ringing and there would eventually you know what, Actually,
Speaker 1: I don't know that it ever actually went to voicemail.
Speaker 1: Based on some stuff we're gonna talk about in a bit,
Speaker 1: and now Mike called. He called nine one one also
Speaker 1: to reporter missing. I believe he called the Sheriff's department.
Speaker 1: Most people don't call one to make a missing person's report,
Speaker 1: so I imagine that he actually called the Sheriff's department directly.
Speaker 1: So at that time they were either unaware of the
Speaker 1: nine one one called she had made or the connection.
Speaker 1: I think they were unaware of the connection between the two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it sounds like we don't know exactly what happened from
Speaker 1: the time that that nine one one call ended and
Speaker 1: until the time of her death. What we do know
Speaker 1: is that the next day someone spotted mcguinness's dodge in
Speaker 1: Trepid on West Little York Street, which is near Highway
Speaker 1: to nineties, so it's kind of a clover leaf offshoot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you totally that the car was found. Like I said,
Speaker 1: it was less than five miles away from where the
Speaker 1: drug store that she had talked to Laurie was at
Speaker 1: the Chord, and when officers found her body, it was
Speaker 1: in the car with the passengers door open. It was
Speaker 1: apparent that she had been beaten, but the scene was
Speaker 1: staged to look like she had committed suicide. She did
Speaker 1: commit suicide, maybe the gun that was in her hand,
Speaker 1: the gun that was used to kill her, Whether she
Speaker 1: did it herself for someone else did was the family's gun.
Speaker 1: It was registered to her husband, Mike, and forensic tests
Speaker 1: would later confirm two different things, one that she had
Speaker 1: been gagged and two that she had indeed been as
Speaker 1: I said, shot with that specific gun. So they had
Speaker 1: done ballistics to confirm that was the one that did
Speaker 1: it and shot where in the head, like I know,
Speaker 1: the throat, between the eyes and the back of the
Speaker 1: head she looked like. So I don't know the exact
Speaker 1: location because that is not given away in any the reporting.
Speaker 1: But to be a parent to a stage like a suicide,
Speaker 1: it has to be either under the chin or through
Speaker 1: the side of the temple, would be my guest, or
Speaker 1: the mouth. Yeah, that's yeah, that's I consider that and
Speaker 1: under the chin very similar. But yes, yeah, so those
Speaker 1: are the those are things. But it staged to be
Speaker 1: like a suicide. We can guess it probably wasn't in
Speaker 1: the mouth if she was gagged, If she was gagged
Speaker 1: and then shot and the gag was removed, yes, if
Speaker 1: the gag was removed and then she was shot, no,
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, they stupid ordering. Yeah, so she wasn't
Speaker 1: gag when they found her body, that right, they were
Speaker 1: just were able to tell what from ligature marks that
Speaker 1: she had been previously correct, they could tell. They could
Speaker 1: tell she had been hit a number of times. That's
Speaker 1: why it's referred to as being beaten and that she
Speaker 1: had a gag in her mouth at some point before
Speaker 1: her death, and the time of death was determined to
Speaker 1: be what do not know, it's it's I'm guessing the
Speaker 1: window is somewhere shortly after the one call. I mean,
Speaker 1: for all I know, all any of us know then
Speaker 1: one call recorded the shot that killed her. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but it's I think it's always presumed that it's right
Speaker 1: around the time frame that five forty time frame. Two
Speaker 1: is the long time of the nine one one call.
Speaker 1: One would guess that there would be mention of the
Speaker 1: shot that killed her being heard. So the thing with
Speaker 1: the nine one one call is that the law enforcement agency,
Speaker 1: the Sheriff's Department, said it was so disturbing that they
Speaker 1: did not want to release it and its contents to
Speaker 1: the public. So I can't say two parents. Almost every
Speaker 1: single place that you'll see this on, Mary Henderson Morris,
Speaker 1: like I said before, had almost nothing in her life
Speaker 1: that could have ad to her demise in that way.
Speaker 1: Mary McGinnis Morris, however, did have a number of different
Speaker 1: things that could have led to the scenario where she
Speaker 1: lost her life. So let's talk about several of the
Speaker 1: things in Mary McGinnis Morris's life that seemed to point
Speaker 1: suspect at who or what may have caused her death.
Speaker 1: The first one is a gentlemine by the name of Dwayne.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna use his last name. You can find
Speaker 1: out on the internet if you really want, but he's
Speaker 1: gone through a lot about this. But sometime in the
Speaker 1: beginning of two thousand, Union Carbide Heart hired a male
Speaker 1: nurse and to what degree I don't know this took place,
Speaker 1: but apparently he and McGinnis did not get along and
Speaker 1: they clashed and it sounds like actually they were friendly
Speaker 1: at first, but thanks kind of what south maybe yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, there there are things about her that seem
Speaker 1: a bit prickly in time, so I could see that
Speaker 1: how that could be, I don't know. That's the hard
Speaker 1: part is that when it's it becomes a he said,
Speaker 1: she said scenario, you know, after events like this take place.
Speaker 1: But the long and the shortage of it is that
Speaker 1: they they did not get along. I don't know whether
Speaker 1: it was that he questioned her in front of other
Speaker 1: staff or if he went around her directly to upper
Speaker 1: management and questioned her ability at her job, but either
Speaker 1: way they were not on good terms. She was not
Speaker 1: happy with him. Mcguinnis had told people after their their
Speaker 1: spats were going on and all of the tension, she
Speaker 1: had told people that she believed that Dwayne was capable
Speaker 1: of hurting her. Was a guy. Well, there's that. And
Speaker 1: according to her husband Mike, it's around the time that
Speaker 1: all of the clashes were happening that she asked him
Speaker 1: for his un as well as lessons, and then started
Speaker 1: carrying that gun in the car with her underneath the seat.
Speaker 1: And I was according to Jess Micer, according to so
Speaker 1: other people knew that she was carrying the gun. This
Speaker 1: is this thing that I don't get sometimes as people
Speaker 1: are carrying a gun for their protection and they tell
Speaker 1: everybody they've got the gun there. I don't tell somebody
Speaker 1: I had a gun hit in my car, telling where
Speaker 1: it is. Yeah. So, but but yes, people knew that
Speaker 1: she was she was packing. She also had told people
Speaker 1: that she was going to stop carrying the gun, but
Speaker 1: Mike says that she never had any She never said
Speaker 1: that to him, and he, as far as he knew,
Speaker 1: she had no intention to stop carrying that. The tension
Speaker 1: between Dwayne and mcguinnis reached a climax on Friday in
Speaker 1: two thousand when she came into her office and she
Speaker 1: found that things were wrong. And by that, I mean,
Speaker 1: depending on the accounting, she found some of her stuff
Speaker 1: had been moved around and the pictures on her desk
Speaker 1: had been turned around, or there's other accounts that basically
Speaker 1: imply that her desk was completely and utterly destroyed and
Speaker 1: everything was knocked around. Cool. It's kind of psycho so
Speaker 1: to you, Yeah, well, it depends on how they're trying
Speaker 1: to portray portray Dwayne, I feel. But the thing that
Speaker 1: really gets Dwayne in trouble here is that written on
Speaker 1: a desk calendar on another desk, which we have to
Speaker 1: presume is his, are the words death to her. M Yeah,
Speaker 1: I gotta say that. It sounds like a frame up
Speaker 1: to me. Yes, I mean that's super psycho behavior. Well,
Speaker 1: it's not the super psycho on his part or her part,
Speaker 1: because I mean, frankly, you know, I mean, if I'm
Speaker 1: planning on like stocking and murdering somebody. I don't write
Speaker 1: death threats on my desk calendar at work or yeah
Speaker 1: like that, like somebody was trying to get somebody. I
Speaker 1: would also, but I would also mentioned I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is the appropriate time to have the discussion
Speaker 1: or not, but I will just say that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: she called her friend, who presumably also you, Dwayne, and
Speaker 1: she said, some guy, right, she said, some guy is
Speaker 1: giving me the creeps. Not oh crap, Dwayne is here
Speaker 1: and he looks like a psychopath. I mean, if he
Speaker 1: were actually following her, if it was him personally, one
Speaker 1: would suspect that she would just name him. Lori has
Speaker 1: said that mcguinnis told her at the on that call
Speaker 1: from the Ecker drug store that she thought the man
Speaker 1: she recognized him, and it's implied that he may have
Speaker 1: been a friend of Dwayne's. So there's there's there again.
Speaker 1: The people will keep working the connections back and back
Speaker 1: into place. A lot of people want to believe Dwayne
Speaker 1: did something here. There's a lot of people who want
Speaker 1: to believe several people are guilty. Every time there are
Speaker 1: there are people really working to pin this on certainly.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go ahead and say one final thought
Speaker 1: before we move on, and that is, not only is
Speaker 1: that an insane level of crazy for Dwayne to be
Speaker 1: over a job to like potentially murder someone, but you
Speaker 1: also rope in one of his friends to be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I hate this woman at works so much.
Speaker 1: I hate my boss so much that I'm going to
Speaker 1: murder her. Why don't you Why don't you come in
Speaker 1: on it with me? That's an even next level of insanity. Well,
Speaker 1: that's like creating more witnesses. Yeah, and you know how
Speaker 1: Joe feels about that, absolutely believe no witnesses there. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so okay, she finds the note we're gonna go back
Speaker 1: to that to her, she freaks out. I personally think
Speaker 1: she was trying to get a pt O day because
Speaker 1: she gets the rest of the day off her boss.
Speaker 1: Her bosses tell her not to come in on the
Speaker 1: next day at all. Later that day, Dwayne comes in.
Speaker 1: He said apparently was going to come in to either
Speaker 1: submit or to check that his time card had gone
Speaker 1: in to be submitted for pay. It's at that point
Speaker 1: that he has confronted about this whole thing with McGinnis
Speaker 1: on the desk calendar her desk. Depending on the accountings,
Speaker 1: the level of the escalation of this varies, but he
Speaker 1: is confronted. He is then escorted out of the building
Speaker 1: and told not to return. He's not actually fired, just
Speaker 1: so you know, because he didn't work directly for Union Carbide.
Speaker 1: Apparently he worked for a contracting company and so after
Speaker 1: a period of time he was transferred to another facility,
Speaker 1: so he didn't actually get fired, though it's always referred
Speaker 1: to as fired. If you read to post from Dwayne himself,
Speaker 1: he explains that part of it, they tell him not
Speaker 1: to come back, so he didn't lose his job. He
Speaker 1: didn't lose his job. Well that's good because frankly, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that it very likely was not him who
Speaker 1: scrawled the death threat. Well, we don't even know if
Speaker 1: the death threat Joe and I'm we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about that later. But that's not even really a death threat.
Speaker 1: That's just like a weird scrawling. Yeah, and it was,
Speaker 1: let's not forget. There's also in the depending on the
Speaker 1: version you read, it's there's something to the effect of
Speaker 1: after they escort Dwayne out of the building, he's at
Speaker 1: the window, banging at it, screaming to talk to Mary
Speaker 1: McGinnis Morris. I just generally just way board out there.
Speaker 1: I just generally don't believe that people are that crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean, there, yes, there are like people that are
Speaker 1: that crazy in this world, but generally speaking, I feel
Speaker 1: like you would, you know, at this point in the story,
Speaker 1: would be saying, and here's the insane history of Dwayne
Speaker 1: and his life and how he been an insane person
Speaker 1: his entire life. Although in fairness, you know, I mean
Speaker 1: you're talking a building. He's he can't come back in
Speaker 1: the door because he's told he's not welcome there, but
Speaker 1: he wants to talk to Mary. It's one of those
Speaker 1: one of those big ones with not opening windows. He's
Speaker 1: banging on the windows, which you're thick, by the way,
Speaker 1: trying to get someone his attention, and then he asked
Speaker 1: to in order to make his voice heard, scream. He's
Speaker 1: got to yell I want to talk to Mary, you know,
Speaker 1: And it gets and it doesn't mean he's gone nuts.
Speaker 1: It might just mean he thinks she's and he would
Speaker 1: like to speak with her. So I was going to
Speaker 1: talk about this later on, but we'll just talk about
Speaker 1: this real briefly now, which is depending, like I said,
Speaker 1: depending on the version that you hear. Are you going
Speaker 1: to talk about the car chases? No, there's no car chases. No,
Speaker 1: there were actually reportedly like about seventeen high speed car
Speaker 1: chases in the Houston area, a lot of explosions, three
Speaker 1: buildings burned to the ground about this time. He didn't
Speaker 1: hear about any of this. This is part of the
Speaker 1: whole Killer Syde work from the future theory. You're not
Speaker 1: going to talk about that at all, No, No, I'm not. No.
Speaker 1: What I was going to talk about was okay, Now,
Speaker 1: what I was going to talk about is the fact
Speaker 1: that Dwayne has been very vocal and he's gone on
Speaker 1: the Internet about this. But what seems to have prompted
Speaker 1: him to do so is the fact that this particular
Speaker 1: story was covered by Unsolved Mysteries back in two thousand
Speaker 1: and two. And yes, I know I did too Unsolved
Speaker 1: Mystery episodes in a row. I'm really trying to screw
Speaker 1: with people until they're all available on the internet, so Amazon,
Speaker 1: take the hint. But this is on there. And in
Speaker 1: that episode, the actor who portrays him does a bit
Speaker 1: of an over the top job of acting out his
Speaker 1: part of banging on the windows and screaming for her,
Speaker 1: and that seems to have set him off on his
Speaker 1: campaign of self defense, which you will find on many
Speaker 1: many wards. All right, well, let's go. Let's move forward
Speaker 1: from the that possible reason that would have created the
Speaker 1: situation that Mary McGinnis Morris could have been killed and
Speaker 1: Dwayne wanted to like, you know, murder her for everything
Speaker 1: that happened at the job. The second possible thing in
Speaker 1: her life that could have set this situation up is
Speaker 1: potentially a affair and a marriage that was on the
Speaker 1: rocks when Mike and Mary McGinnis Morris moved to the area.
Speaker 1: Like I said, she came for that job. Her husband,
Speaker 1: Mike didn't. And I don't know if he had a
Speaker 1: job and he lost it or he just never got one,
Speaker 1: but he seems to have had some issues in securing
Speaker 1: employment for two years. That's a long time, it is,
Speaker 1: and that that does some terrible things to to a
Speaker 1: person when you're trying to find worship that long. They
Speaker 1: have a team age daughter, so I know that he
Speaker 1: probably you know, spent a lot of time with her
Speaker 1: daughter because he could. But there's also accusations of infidelity.
Speaker 1: He suspected that his wife was having an affair, and
Speaker 1: he says when he confronted them, they looked him in
Speaker 1: the eye and convinced him that there was nothing untoward
Speaker 1: going on. They they I don't know who the second
Speaker 1: person in the they is, but I also know that
Speaker 1: some places you'll read that say that mcguinnis had confided
Speaker 1: in friends that she had found somebody and she was
Speaker 1: in love, but she wasn't going to leave Mike because
Speaker 1: of her daughter. She wasn't willing to split the marriage up.
Speaker 1: People do that, they put their own happiness before, uh after,
Speaker 1: that of their children in the security, which is normal,
Speaker 1: but that appears to me what she said she was
Speaker 1: doing it well. I mean, you know, there's also like
Speaker 1: popular of crushes. I mean, when you're with somebody for
Speaker 1: thirty or forty years, you're going to find a person
Speaker 1: every once in a while you're attracted to that person.
Speaker 1: But when you're married and you can make your commitment
Speaker 1: to the marriage, hopefully you're bright enough by the time
Speaker 1: weset age you're not going to actually move run after
Speaker 1: the thing that seems you know, sparkly she's n year old,
Speaker 1: lady should but it sounds like she did. Maybe yeah
Speaker 1: to her friend does. But Mike couldn't entirely appear to
Speaker 1: trust her, though he said he did because he was
Speaker 1: known to follow her around. I know, you think a
Speaker 1: sign of a very normal loving relationship. I do it
Speaker 1: to my wife all the time. Honey, It's not really me.
Speaker 1: I swear, I'm gonna have to have a little conversation
Speaker 1: with your wife. Don't do that. Actually, With you know,
Speaker 1: the modern electronic devices, you don't even need to follow
Speaker 1: people around physically anymore. You can can really monitor the
Speaker 1: crap out of somebody. You really can't their phone. It
Speaker 1: wasn't thing you put in your key chain. You can
Speaker 1: just toss that in somebody's car and track it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you don't even need to do that. You just have
Speaker 1: to like convince them it's a good idea to have
Speaker 1: the find my Friends part activated. Oh yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: That's true. Well, I'm really done. I'm really bad at
Speaker 1: convincing people to use other technologies. So hiding technology is
Speaker 1: my okay, final final thing, whether it is Mike or
Speaker 1: somebody else, which possibly could be the final thing about
Speaker 1: Mary McGinnis Morris that could have put her into this
Speaker 1: situation is that she had a rather sizeable life insurance policy.
Speaker 1: It was somewhere depending on the source, between five hundred
Speaker 1: to seven hundred thousand dollars. Was that in today's money,
Speaker 1: like five hundred five thousand dollars? Yeah, Actually, Joe's pretty ready,
Speaker 1: so that's not that beasts like almost twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: Just but it's not a huge difference, not as huge. Yeah, Now,
Speaker 1: why exactly? I mean, well, it seems pretty obvious why
Speaker 1: that would matter, But we're going to delve into some
Speaker 1: of the reasons of why that five hundred to seven
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars really could have been really really important here. Well, gee,
Speaker 1: I wonder why, Yeah, exactly. So I'm gonna go jump
Speaker 1: on the internet and I'm going to research why five
Speaker 1: hundred seven hundred thousand dollars in life insurance is important.
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Speaker 1: And it turns out it's important because it's five hundred
Speaker 1: to seven hundred thousand dollars and I don't know how
Speaker 1: I didn't figure that out the first time. So it's
Speaker 1: five seven depending on how she died or what, depending
Speaker 1: on the policy and the reporting that you look at.
Speaker 1: That's where the variance and the figure is. It's either
Speaker 1: five hundred or seven. Half a million dollars is half
Speaker 1: a million dollars, I mean it's a half a million
Speaker 1: reasons a lot of money. It's not bad, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean I know, no, of course not. No, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't be that. I know you wouldn't you belie You're
Speaker 1: not secretly a murderer. No, So let's go ahead and
Speaker 1: get into theories. Theory number one, which is the Internet's
Speaker 1: most popular theory this was totally a hit gone wrong
Speaker 1: or a killer cyber. No, no, not killer cyboards. You
Speaker 1: gotta stop in the future. Nope, nope, this is not terminator. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they got the wrong Mary Morris. That's where you're going with. Now,
Speaker 1: I see what you're doing. They just decided, I don't
Speaker 1: know all that goes in themes, so I'll just get
Speaker 1: the phone book out. Now. Arnold is not involved, damnit No, no,
Speaker 1: D's okay. So the theory is that someone be it
Speaker 1: Mike or Dwayne or somebody else, they put out a
Speaker 1: hit on Mary McGinnis Morris. It turns out that whoever
Speaker 1: did this hired the hit man equivalent of Mr Magoo,
Speaker 1: and that person killed Mary Henderson Morris instead of Mary
Speaker 1: McGinnis Moore's. In the mistaken belief they had had they
Speaker 1: got the right person, and then when they figured out
Speaker 1: they had killed the wrong person, they went back to
Speaker 1: then do the job right, which is why Mary McGinnis
Speaker 1: Morris was subsequently killed. Well, they don't. I mean they're
Speaker 1: both white women, approximately the same height, approximately the same build,
Speaker 1: ten years apart less than ten years apart, the same
Speaker 1: har color, the same hair length, basically as when they
Speaker 1: look pretty similar. They drove cars that though they were
Speaker 1: different makes from different manufacturers, they were very similar basic
Speaker 1: bloss a dance, the same color and everything. I can't
Speaker 1: remember the color, but I know that um Henderson Henderson
Speaker 1: Henderson had a Chevy Lumina. First Mary Henderson Morris had
Speaker 1: the Lumina, and then Mary mcguinnis Morris had a Dodge.
Speaker 1: Was it an intrepid Yeah, yeah, which if you look
Speaker 1: at the those models and say within a four year
Speaker 1: eight time bracket of the year two thousand, they look
Speaker 1: basically the same. They're just as I refer to them,
Speaker 1: bloss a dance all look the same. So there's there's
Speaker 1: nothing really distinct. So that's what this is based on.
Speaker 1: This theory then instantly splits into several sub theory reads.
Speaker 1: Before we hit those sub theories, though, there's there's something
Speaker 1: that you'll always see in the reading which I don't
Speaker 1: completely agree with, but that that reading will always say
Speaker 1: that point out how Mary Henderson Morris's wedding ring was missing,
Speaker 1: and it will also say that that is typically done
Speaker 1: because supposedly hit men take the wedding ring of the
Speaker 1: person they're killing to prove that they hit happened. I
Speaker 1: thought it was their heads or their hands. Okay, you know, frankly,
Speaker 1: I don't see the point to it, because, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna find if you read the papers,
Speaker 1: you'll find out whether he succeeded or not. In Hollywood,
Speaker 1: this makes sense in a situation where it's a drug
Speaker 1: kingpen trying to track down a snitch who is in hiding,
Speaker 1: and you have to bring back proof of the kill.
Speaker 1: Maybe I could see that the man that goes to
Speaker 1: bed every night with that woman. Yeah. Well, but I
Speaker 1: mean even then, it's like, it's not it's a ring.
Speaker 1: It comes off a person's live body. It's not. There's
Speaker 1: no proof in anything on the wedding ring. And furthermore,
Speaker 1: the fact that her purse and her wedding ring room
Speaker 1: missing just means that somebody wanted a little extra dough
Speaker 1: on the side. Because you could just pawn all that
Speaker 1: stuff off. It doesn't mean that they took it as
Speaker 1: a token to like prove that they had successfully done
Speaker 1: something that's silly. And also, by the way, well people
Speaker 1: take their wedding rings off from time to time, and
Speaker 1: that happens not because they're screwing around it maybe they're
Speaker 1: cleaning or whatever. You know, I take a shower, I
Speaker 1: take mine off, and then I've forgotten it and hours
Speaker 1: later like, oh crap, I guess I'm not married. Finally, yeah,
Speaker 1: right on. But but the wedding ring was ever found,
Speaker 1: never found. I guess one possibility, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry again. We could be just jumping the gun here
Speaker 1: a little bit. But I guess one possibility is since
Speaker 1: the car was so destroyed, the purple thought that it
Speaker 1: probably would make it much harder to identify the body
Speaker 1: if he took the wedding ring and the purse with him, right,
Speaker 1: because they wouldn't melt as much. So if you know,
Speaker 1: still say like, oh that's the wedding ring, that's her
Speaker 1: wedding rings. Yeah, if things didn't melt or didn't burn
Speaker 1: as much. Did you know, did they say anything about finding, like, say,
Speaker 1: a golden nugget in the car? No? And I have
Speaker 1: some I have some very I personally have different feelings
Speaker 1: as to why Henderson's car was burned, but we'll talk
Speaker 1: about that later. But um, like I said, it doesn't
Speaker 1: make any sense that if you're the guy that goes
Speaker 1: to bed with this woman every night in the same
Speaker 1: bed that you would need proof. And if it's Dwayne,
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense because you run in the
Speaker 1: same circles and you know all the same people. So again,
Speaker 1: this is the silly thing the hit man. But we're
Speaker 1: gonna run down the hit theories. Hit theory number one
Speaker 1: is that Mike set it up. And there are a
Speaker 1: lot of things that make people think that Mike set
Speaker 1: up the hit. But if he did, he did some
Speaker 1: really dumb things. The first of which is that there
Speaker 1: is a four minute call from his phone to his
Speaker 1: wife's phone two hours after call came in from her
Speaker 1: from her that frantic her call to the cops two
Speaker 1: hours later, Yeah, two hours later, there's a four minute
Speaker 1: call log from his phone to her and we are
Speaker 1: talking a cell phone, correct their cell phones. When confronted
Speaker 1: about it, he said that there's got to be a
Speaker 1: problem with the phone company because what he did is
Speaker 1: he just let it ring and ring and ring in
Speaker 1: hopes that she would pick up, and it just kept rang. Well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and this is the year two thousand. Win Voicemail was
Speaker 1: not a default feature on a call plan. You had
Speaker 1: to in roll and pay for it, was it? Yes,
Speaker 1: I worked for. We've we talked about this a week
Speaker 1: or two. Goo. I worked for a phone company at
Speaker 1: this time, and you had to enroll and pay certain
Speaker 1: plans required you to pay for voicemail, so they probably
Speaker 1: didn't have voicemail a good man, and Mike might have
Speaker 1: actually been in one of those stubborn movies where he
Speaker 1: just said, screw you. I know you're there. I'm just
Speaker 1: going to set the phone down and let it ring
Speaker 1: and ring and ring. And problem is it should not
Speaker 1: have registered as a call. It wasn't picked up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't picked up, Yes, unless I was picked up
Speaker 1: by voicemail, but picked up by some shouldn't have rung
Speaker 1: for four minutes, right, it should it could have been.
Speaker 1: It should have gotten the eventual disconnect from the phone
Speaker 1: company and not sat there then. Well, although I will
Speaker 1: say um, at least every voicemail I've ever had, the
Speaker 1: default is that the voicemail cut you off after five minutes.
Speaker 1: It'll let you leave a five minute long message and
Speaker 1: that's the max. So I don't I don't know what
Speaker 1: it was at that point, but I guess it's possible
Speaker 1: he may be you know, called and thought he hung
Speaker 1: up and put the phone down and it rang and
Speaker 1: a hit voicemail and then it was just a blank message.
Speaker 1: But even then they should have found Yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: don't like it. The cell company should have ended the
Speaker 1: call after about a minute. That's apparently typical. So that's
Speaker 1: one problem they're like we talked about, you know, he
Speaker 1: had he they would have had to have had this
Speaker 1: voicemail for what you're talking about, for it have gone
Speaker 1: through it eventually gotten kicked off. I've never seen any
Speaker 1: records that show the call on Mary's records and Mike's
Speaker 1: records to show it a real call, because to me,
Speaker 1: if it's a real connected call, it should be registered
Speaker 1: on both phones from and well, you know, I haven't
Speaker 1: seen that, so I can't. I can't confirm that that's
Speaker 1: truly what happens here. But the police are pretty sure
Speaker 1: that there that he is lying through his teeth because
Speaker 1: the problem is that he had no reason to think
Speaker 1: that his wife was missing at that point unless he
Speaker 1: had hired a hit, made a killer. Okay, I'm if
Speaker 1: you're on the side of Mike is innocent and he
Speaker 1: didn't do it. For him to have made a four
Speaker 1: minute ringing, I'm going to get your attention answer the
Speaker 1: phone call. He has said, I was distraught and I
Speaker 1: just let it ring and ring and ring and hopes
Speaker 1: that she would answer it. That doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 1: The other problem is he was at the movie theater
Speaker 1: with his daughter. Why would he be freaking out? I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: maybe Mary was supposed to meet him at the theater
Speaker 1: and she didn't show up, But sitting there for four
Speaker 1: minutes ringing, ringing, ringing is pretty extreme. Well, two things.
Speaker 1: One is I stand by my theory that it's possible
Speaker 1: that he thought he hung up and he didn't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he said that he let it ring that so he
Speaker 1: affirmed that he sat there with the phone for four minutes.
Speaker 1: The other thing I'll say is that apparently he was
Speaker 1: following her with his car because he really didn't trust her.
Speaker 1: So if he in his mind had you know, worked
Speaker 1: up that she was with her lover for him to
Speaker 1: just be like again, as Joe said, you know, kind
Speaker 1: of like screw you. I know you're there, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: leave this phone ringing while you're you know, getting it
Speaker 1: on with your lover because that'll be a distraction and
Speaker 1: then you'll have to you know, confront me at some point.
Speaker 1: I mean that I'm not going to I can get
Speaker 1: myself to that insane headspace on my most insane, hormonal moments.
Speaker 1: But I mean it's still it's not a great theory,
Speaker 1: and it's a little counter to some of the things
Speaker 1: that he said. Yeah, I totally understand where you're coming from.
Speaker 1: He said some things that right, Well, because I think
Speaker 1: I think you would, you would say I thought she
Speaker 1: was cheating on me, so I let it ring because
Speaker 1: I was trying to get a hold of her. Not
Speaker 1: I thought she was missing, you know. And by the way,
Speaker 1: her cell phone was found in her car. Correct. I
Speaker 1: can't say yes to that because it's never stated if
Speaker 1: it was. The case is technically open, so of course
Speaker 1: the records from the police are not available. I don't
Speaker 1: know if indeed her phone was found there. I have.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say at one point, well, I saw
Speaker 1: a picture of her phone record, but except I don't
Speaker 1: know that that's actually real, because as we talked about
Speaker 1: in the last story that I did, it was an
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries episode of and so I think that's I
Speaker 1: think that's some kind of mocked up phone record. So
Speaker 1: I have I have no idea. I can't say if
Speaker 1: her phone was there not, but if he wasn't calling her,
Speaker 1: if he was calling the hit man, that makes absolutely
Speaker 1: no sense. It's the stupidest thing in the world to do.
Speaker 1: Any should know better. Well, the hit man, he has
Speaker 1: a cell phone, and yeah, I'm sure he does. I mean,
Speaker 1: he had the whole idea of calling the hit man
Speaker 1: and his wife's cell phone. It's kind of silly, super silly. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so let's let's keep going forward though with the mic
Speaker 1: set up the hit theory. Another thing that makes people
Speaker 1: finger him as the bad guy is that his wife
Speaker 1: was known to wear a ring that wasn't on her
Speaker 1: body at the time that it was found. This isn't
Speaker 1: your wedding ring. Wedding, by the way, I don't know that,
Speaker 1: but this was another ring. I have to I have
Speaker 1: to presume it was. But this is you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: women wear multiple rings and somewhere a certain ring all
Speaker 1: the time, and she was known to wear one of
Speaker 1: these rings on a regular basis and it was not
Speaker 1: there with her body. He reported it missing to the police,
Speaker 1: but then his daughter was seen wearing that ring several
Speaker 1: months later, at which point when he was confronted with it.
Speaker 1: He said that he had founded in the house and
Speaker 1: he just forgot to tell the cops. Which if you
Speaker 1: think about this from the angle of a man who
Speaker 1: has lost his wife and is trying to deal with
Speaker 1: his grieving daughter and he finds a ring, or his
Speaker 1: daughter finds the ring, he's not going to make a
Speaker 1: big deal out of it because he's trying to hold
Speaker 1: his his freaking life together. I can see how this
Speaker 1: is not a big thing to call the cops and say, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: that's that's sterling silver ring she wore all the time
Speaker 1: with a little etching on it. Yeah, we found it
Speaker 1: especially important. Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say,
Speaker 1: especially if you know, they said, okay, so what was
Speaker 1: she usually wearing and he, you know, would have said,
Speaker 1: I don't know, she you know, a shirt that looked
Speaker 1: like this, and she often wore this ring, and you know,
Speaker 1: jeans and probably these shoes and that, you know, And
Speaker 1: that's you know, in the heat of the moment, when
Speaker 1: you're worried about your wife, that you say that, and
Speaker 1: then you know, months later you find that ring. You're
Speaker 1: not going to think, oh, the police will want to
Speaker 1: know about this. You're gonna just say, oh, this was
Speaker 1: a ring that was really special to your mother, you
Speaker 1: should have it. Or the daughter finds it and says,
Speaker 1: I found mom's ring. Honey, where the ring. Take If
Speaker 1: it makes you feel, if it, if it helps, do it, yes,
Speaker 1: do whatever you got to, whatever you know, hocket and
Speaker 1: buy some drugs, do whatever you do. Know that's not
Speaker 1: what happened. Let's not do that now before people. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I've said a couple of statements. I feel
Speaker 1: like maybe I've defended Mike a little bit. I also
Speaker 1: kind of beat on him a little bit for the
Speaker 1: stupid things if he was the one who did this.
Speaker 1: There's some other things that Mike has done that a
Speaker 1: lot of people don't like that have put him in
Speaker 1: the hot seat. Number one of which is the fact
Speaker 1: that he lawyered up almost immediately. Yeah. I would if
Speaker 1: my boyfriend, if he had a life policy, a life
Speaker 1: insurance policy of you know, half a million to seven
Speaker 1: d K and my and then he showed up murdered somewhere,
Speaker 1: I would immediately get a lawyer. Of course, how often
Speaker 1: have we seen k says where the husband just innostantly
Speaker 1: walks in. It's like okay, I'll answer your questions and
Speaker 1: there this suddenly their prime suspect only two then months later,
Speaker 1: after being drugged through the mud or jailed, get released
Speaker 1: with a little sorry. Yeah, but we've also seen to
Speaker 1: go the other way where they walked in, they answered
Speaker 1: all the questions and the police fingered him and sure
Speaker 1: is hell, they turned out to be the one that
Speaker 1: was guilty and did it. So you can see why
Speaker 1: the cops, but you can also see where he's coming from.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I get why he lawyered up, but
Speaker 1: he also refused to let the cops talk to his
Speaker 1: daughter and people were really upset about that because she
Speaker 1: was a teenager. She's I think fourteen at the time.
Speaker 1: But but I again, so the cops want to talk
Speaker 1: to her, and he doesn't let them talk to her
Speaker 1: for a good two months, and I can see that again,
Speaker 1: this is the father who was trying to defend his
Speaker 1: daughter and insulin and protect her, and it's not till
Speaker 1: a certain amount of time that he feels like she's
Speaker 1: ready or the other side of the camp is this
Speaker 1: is a man who is responsible, and he's very carefully
Speaker 1: crafting and curating his daughter's responses and statements to this
Speaker 1: the situation there, there's never gonna be a winning reaction.
Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about this a lot on this show,
Speaker 1: that the you know, the spouse or family of people
Speaker 1: who show up murdered or disappeared, there's not there's never
Speaker 1: the right way to react. People are always going to
Speaker 1: suspect you, and people are always going to think you're innocent,
Speaker 1: no matter what the situation is. And that's just I mean, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: that's the truth of the matter. So but yeah, as
Speaker 1: far as say, you know, I don't know, she might
Speaker 1: have it could be suspicious, I don't know. Yeah. Eventually
Speaker 1: let her talk though, so so whatever she had to say,
Speaker 1: she got to tell it to the police. True. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He also famously refused to take a polygraph, which I
Speaker 1: think we've talked at nauseum about how unreliable polygraphs are.
Speaker 1: But he also said, listen, I'm on a bunch of
Speaker 1: medication right now. He's he was taking stuff for the
Speaker 1: stress and the anxiety and the depression, and he really,
Speaker 1: I think probably correctly. So I didn't think that the
Speaker 1: police could adequately calibrate the polygraph to accommodate for that
Speaker 1: and others. I don't think you can. There are them
Speaker 1: that say that even without the stress and the drugs,
Speaker 1: that you can't calibrate them because they're kind of voodoo. So,
Speaker 1: speaking of voodoo, currently, I have a little voodoo doll
Speaker 1: of Mike in my hand and I am randomly sticking
Speaker 1: needles in it. And let me go ahead and stick
Speaker 1: one more needle in it, which is to talk about
Speaker 1: his wife's car. Her car was one was a car
Speaker 1: that we're really used to this today. You put it
Speaker 1: in drive and you start to move, and the door's lock,
Speaker 1: the auto lock function. That's super common now, but that
Speaker 1: was not super common in two thousand. But people say, well,
Speaker 1: if his wife was in a car that had possibly
Speaker 1: been moving, then the doors would have auto locked, and
Speaker 1: so there's no way the bad guy could have got
Speaker 1: into it. So he had to have given said bad
Speaker 1: guy the key to either get into it when it
Speaker 1: was parked and hide in the back seat and that
Speaker 1: old movie trope thing, or have the beeper and beeper
Speaker 1: the door open and opened the door and got it
Speaker 1: while she was sitting there, parked somewhere and having locked
Speaker 1: the doors. Well, you know, there's also the possibility that
Speaker 1: she was actually jumped or approached or whatever outside the car,
Speaker 1: and based on her nine one one call, I have
Speaker 1: to say that that's exactly what happened, because if she
Speaker 1: had been inside the car and come under enough of
Speaker 1: an attack or a threat or whatever to have a
Speaker 1: panic called at nine one one, all she had to
Speaker 1: do was locked the doors and reached down unto her
Speaker 1: driver's seat where she had a gun. She and so
Speaker 1: obviously she made that call. She must have made that
Speaker 1: call from outside the car. Either that or she's just
Speaker 1: a much fly tier person than than I had thought,
Speaker 1: and have to forget that she can lock her car,
Speaker 1: and also she's got a pistol like store it into
Speaker 1: her seat. Did you? Did you say I may have
Speaker 1: forgotten what seat she was in when she was found her.
Speaker 1: I didn't because I don't know. The passenger door was open,
Speaker 1: so it gives me the inclination that she was and
Speaker 1: she was found lying in the car, so I presume
Speaker 1: that she was lying across the front seats from from
Speaker 1: passenger side, head pointing towards driver's door. But I also
Speaker 1: want to so this is you brought up something Joe
Speaker 1: that I want to talk about, which is I don't
Speaker 1: understand people who just stick a handgun under the seat
Speaker 1: of the driver's seat like it's gonna vel cross itself
Speaker 1: to the floor and never moved. Sure, I mean things
Speaker 1: bounce around in cars so much that the I've got
Speaker 1: a gun under my seat thing is just I've never
Speaker 1: understood that if you were, oh, well, I strapped it
Speaker 1: to something, you actually can like put it in the
Speaker 1: holster and tie the holster or you know, tape duck duck,
Speaker 1: tape the holster or something to people do it under
Speaker 1: star and call them stuff like that, but insane. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but we we don't know that she had just tossed
Speaker 1: a loose gun under the seat. We also don't know
Speaker 1: that she affixed it to anything. So that's so like
Speaker 1: when I talked about, you know, maybe somebody snuck into
Speaker 1: the car when she wasn't in it and was hiding there,
Speaker 1: and maybe the gun had rattled backwards, so they're crouched.
Speaker 1: It's October there, crouched down in the back of her
Speaker 1: car after five at night, which is going to be dark,
Speaker 1: and like, hey, put the hand Hey what the hell
Speaker 1: is Oh, this is a gun. This is way better
Speaker 1: than the knife I brought with me, Like these things.
Speaker 1: I don't get. It does not make any sense. But well,
Speaker 1: and I did you know what kind of gun it was?
Speaker 1: I want to say it was a thirty eight, And
Speaker 1: I have no good reason to say that. For some reason,
Speaker 1: I think that too. Yeah, I mean, it's not the
Speaker 1: biggest handgun in the world, But you don't know what
Speaker 1: make or anything. No, No, I just remember the caliber
Speaker 1: being mentioned, and that's about it. Here's the other thing
Speaker 1: about her, about this whole her key thing in the
Speaker 1: auto lock thing. There's a whole bunch of stuff in
Speaker 1: the news right now is we're recording about people who
Speaker 1: are being tricked out of their cars by people either
Speaker 1: laying in the road or putting dummies in the and
Speaker 1: tricking someone to get out of their car, at which
Speaker 1: point they ambush them. So it's entirely possible that mcguinnis
Speaker 1: Mary mcguinnis Morris, drives her car somewhere down West Little
Speaker 1: York and there's a dummy in the road, and she
Speaker 1: gets out because she thinks it's a person heard, and
Speaker 1: then she is attacked. And maybe that's where the nine
Speaker 1: one one call comes, is that she's you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's very plausible. It is, except
Speaker 1: except for that she had just not so long earlier,
Speaker 1: said that there was a person following her that gave
Speaker 1: her the creeps. I mean, as a woman who is
Speaker 1: not a registered nurse or you know, anything like that,
Speaker 1: I don't. I have. My sense of self preservation comes
Speaker 1: before my sense of preserving other people's lives. But I,
Speaker 1: especially if I had, you know, a couple of hours before,
Speaker 1: been super creeped out by somebody, or you know, however
Speaker 1: much time, I would not minute stop minutes. But she was.
Speaker 1: She was also described um. Laura Gembl described it as
Speaker 1: saying that she was a matter of fact, it wasn't
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, this
Speaker 1: guy's freaking me. I was like, this guy is given
Speaker 1: a creeps. Even then though I would not, and I'm
Speaker 1: a different woman than this woman, and then that's fair.
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't stopped for anyone, especially, I mean, like
Speaker 1: normally I wouldn't stop for anyone, And then especially if
Speaker 1: I had been observing somebody that was giving me the creeps,
Speaker 1: I would especially not stop. So when you got back
Speaker 1: in your car to after the drug store and you
Speaker 1: saw the creepy guy, would you feel around in the
Speaker 1: seat and find out where the gun was? Probably, but
Speaker 1: I probably would have holstered it somewhere, So yeah, you
Speaker 1: wouldn't have it on your seat anyway running around. So
Speaker 1: I believe that's all that we've got for this particular
Speaker 1: theory about Mike. There's some more about Mike later, but
Speaker 1: we've also still got it. We've got to flesh out
Speaker 1: the It was a hit, but Dwayne set it up. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's that's yeah, We're we're still on the hit man
Speaker 1: that was Mr Magoo and accidentally killed the wrong woman
Speaker 1: at first, correct, got the wrong Mary Morris. So Dwayne.
Speaker 1: Dwayne is also super popular all over the internet as
Speaker 1: being the bad guy. And I will say that he
Speaker 1: would have known her habits because he worked with her.
Speaker 1: He knew where she lived because he had been to
Speaker 1: her house for a party once. But then again he
Speaker 1: had she had been to his house once, So there's
Speaker 1: this whole thing of maybe the two men had met met,
Speaker 1: in other words, Mike and Dwayne. But supposedly the man,
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, the man that she saw in
Speaker 1: the Ecker drug was one of Drayne Dwayne's friends, which
Speaker 1: would indicate that that guy was who Dwayne had hired
Speaker 1: to take her out. That all seems to kind of
Speaker 1: make sense, except for this massive problem to me of timing.
Speaker 1: Mary Henderson Morris was killed on a Thursday. Dwayne was
Speaker 1: let go or locked out of the building on Friday.
Speaker 1: Friday before Friday, Yeah, it's the the day after Henderson
Speaker 1: is killed on the twelve m. Guinness gets him kicked
Speaker 1: out of the building on Friday. So the whole he
Speaker 1: hired the hit man thing, like you could see him
Speaker 1: escalating to people, say, well, he got so angry about
Speaker 1: getting fired that he just in a rage hired this
Speaker 1: person who then he sent back in time. I guess.
Speaker 1: So there there's an issue with the timeline there. The
Speaker 1: So the other thing that I look at with the
Speaker 1: whole desk calendar thing, the depth to her if he
Speaker 1: didn't like her so much, it seems weird. I think
Speaker 1: we talked about this before to write that down and
Speaker 1: to you know, to make that kind of statement on
Speaker 1: a calendar, But we also don't know if it's his calendar,
Speaker 1: and we also don't know if it's even in relation
Speaker 1: to her, because I don't even know that it was
Speaker 1: written by him. Well, the thing that was his calendar
Speaker 1: in his desk. What I think about is that they
Speaker 1: were in the health industry, and there is such a
Speaker 1: thing as assistant suicide, and assisted suicide is not legal
Speaker 1: in the state of Texas. However, the withholding of life
Speaker 1: sustaining procedures is acceptable if it's at the patient's request.
Speaker 1: And I pulled up from that time the way that
Speaker 1: it's word because it's a little strange, but I see
Speaker 1: where the loophole is is that it says the effective
Speaker 1: withholding of life staining procedures colon withdrawal or withholding of
Speaker 1: life sustaining procedures does not constitute offense of aiding suicide.
Speaker 1: So it could very well have been that somebody's family
Speaker 1: came in and said, listen, grandma has been on a
Speaker 1: ventilator for six months and has not woke up. It's
Speaker 1: time to turn off grandma's ventilator. And it could have
Speaker 1: been as simple as that. Well maybe, except he was
Speaker 1: working at Assume just it's sort of an employee health
Speaker 1: opposite Union Carbide, right, So I mean, that's not the
Speaker 1: kind of place where you got people on like you know, ventolity,
Speaker 1: but they're they're doing health services there. I don't know
Speaker 1: exactly what happened at that facility. I'd be very honest
Speaker 1: with you, Joe. I also don't know if Dwayne only
Speaker 1: worked in that facility or as part of his job
Speaker 1: with Union Carbide was to go to other facilities. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's a whole slew of things that death to Her
Speaker 1: could have meant. What about a concert that's a weird
Speaker 1: band name, but okay, is it really though? I mean
Speaker 1: death metal? No, actually it's not. Or a movie he meant,
Speaker 1: you know, death becomes her because he was going to
Speaker 1: go see that somebody. I mean, like wrong, it's not
Speaker 1: that wrong, death becomes her, death to her, I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, it's an unfortunate mistake given the circumstances, But
Speaker 1: it's not like that weird of a trust. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, granted, it seems like he would be saying
Speaker 1: all these things if any of these were the thing.
Speaker 1: And the stuff is the fact is that McGinnis seems
Speaker 1: to be the one. Okay, I was about to say
Speaker 1: that McGinnis seems to have been the one that made
Speaker 1: all the statements about Dwayne, but then I also realized
Speaker 1: the fallacy in that statement, which is she is the
Speaker 1: one that died, and therefore all of her friends and
Speaker 1: family are recounting the things that she had said. If
Speaker 1: we flipped the tables and she had lived and Dwayne
Speaker 1: had been hunted down and shot in a supposed suicide position,
Speaker 1: we probably would have heard flip side things from his
Speaker 1: friends and real So I'm going to take that back.
Speaker 1: I mean, but the timeline with Dwayne is my my biggest,
Speaker 1: biggest difficulty because it just doesn't It doesn't work unless
Speaker 1: they're you know, not connected. Which part yeah, which is
Speaker 1: the very next theory, like I looked ahead in the
Speaker 1: script or so well, they could be connected in in
Speaker 1: other ways, so loud, Supposing Dwyne is a very clever guy,
Speaker 1: you hit a problem with the timeline. But supposing uh,
Speaker 1: Dwayne after this outrageous thing where you know, basically it
Speaker 1: looked to me like somebody just was trying to get
Speaker 1: him fired from his job. He's angry, goes home, sitting
Speaker 1: around drinking a beer, cooling off, and looks in the
Speaker 1: papers and see as well, Mary Morris died. Hey cool,
Speaker 1: and then he read the article to realizes it's not
Speaker 1: the same Mary Morris. But then he thinks about it
Speaker 1: and thinks, wait a second, if I were to knock
Speaker 1: off my Mary Morris, it would look you know, let's say, okay,
Speaker 1: let's pick up the phone, let's call the newspapers say
Speaker 1: they got the wrong Mary Morris. Now I got knock
Speaker 1: her off, and it'll look like a hit gone wrong.
Speaker 1: So you have made part one A of the next theory.
Speaker 1: I will now talk about Part one B, which is
Speaker 1: very similar and this one. You So you said they're unconnected,
Speaker 1: but it's Dwayne. I had that it's unconnected, but it's
Speaker 1: Mike for very similar reasons. Sees that she's been killed,
Speaker 1: Henderson has been killed, and oh, this would be really convenient,
Speaker 1: and then has his wife knocked off, at which point
Speaker 1: he can be well, I don't think he can knock
Speaker 1: her off himself because he's at the movie theater with
Speaker 1: his daughter, so the timeline doesn't I think is too
Speaker 1: too tight for that. But he could then begin this
Speaker 1: this campaign of disinformation and you know, mud slinging at
Speaker 1: Dwayne for what was maybe not such a big deal
Speaker 1: at the office to his wife, but in the retellings
Speaker 1: it becomes, as we've seen with retellings, bigger and bigger
Speaker 1: and bigger to grander scales, so both it could be unconnected,
Speaker 1: and one or the other of them could have taken
Speaker 1: advance inntage of the just random happenstance of a Mary
Speaker 1: Morris having been killed, by the way, be a little
Speaker 1: different than the Dwayne theory, because he if he hired
Speaker 1: a hit man, it must it would have taken a
Speaker 1: lot longer than just a few days to go find somebody,
Speaker 1: you know, and had him knock his wife off. If
Speaker 1: if he had not been planning to have his wife
Speaker 1: killed prior to that, you're right, But if he had
Speaker 1: been thinking, I want to get her killed, or he
Speaker 1: was drinking with a buddy on Saturday afternoon and the
Speaker 1: dude was like, do you give me five grand I'll
Speaker 1: kill her. I'll just totally kill her. Uh, what's to
Speaker 1: say Mike didn't called Dwayne up. It's also possible. This
Speaker 1: is where these theories get so interwoven, because, like we said,
Speaker 1: they had met, they knew they at least in passing,
Speaker 1: and knew each other, and for differing reasons, they could
Speaker 1: have wanted Mary McGinnis Morris dead. I the other thing,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go ahead and throw out here, just
Speaker 1: like a throw mama from the train. Well, it's just
Speaker 1: been swirling around in my head. Is that? So we
Speaker 1: don't know who Mary was having the affair with or
Speaker 1: was not apparent does not I've never seen the name mentioned, Okay,
Speaker 1: and so we're pretty sure though it wasn't Dwayne, and
Speaker 1: that this was all show to keep there from being
Speaker 1: some kind of problems with hr as far as I know,
Speaker 1: or I had the same thought of could it have
Speaker 1: been Dwayne and maybe that's what soured things between them,
Speaker 1: But as far as I know, it was not doing.
Speaker 1: He has not said that. He apparently was in a
Speaker 1: relationship the whole time, So if it was Dwayne, he
Speaker 1: had a very good reason to not admit it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: presumably the police know about this, of course, as usual,
Speaker 1: they're being pigs about the whole thing. Yeah, okay, Well
Speaker 1: that that's pretty at the end of that theory. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we we have. So let's let's go on to what
Speaker 1: I have as the final theory, which is that they
Speaker 1: were completely and totally unrelated, entirely possible. And when you
Speaker 1: when I stopped and I think about them, and you
Speaker 1: start to look at the scenes, I don't I mean,
Speaker 1: people always say that, well it was the hit man,
Speaker 1: and this and this, but but but they're not all
Speaker 1: that related to me. Mary Henderson. We don't know exactly
Speaker 1: how she was killed, but she was killed, and a
Speaker 1: couple of things were stolen. We know we're stolen. And
Speaker 1: then she and her car were incinerated. Mcguinnis Morris, Mary
Speaker 1: McGinnis Morris was beaten, gagged and shot and left to
Speaker 1: be discovered and not burned, but also in her car.
Speaker 1: But it at at the vehicle is the only real similarity.
Speaker 1: And in a city that at that time had a
Speaker 1: population of over two million people, it's not all that
Speaker 1: surprising that a rather common name of Mary Morris you
Speaker 1: could have in a weekend two people with the same
Speaker 1: name being killed. It's not astronomical, not at all. We
Speaker 1: haven't talked about Mary Henderson Morris too much in in
Speaker 1: this last half hour. I'm going to guess, as it's
Speaker 1: been so far, let's talk about her for a minute,
Speaker 1: and let's talk about the reasons that her body may
Speaker 1: have been treated the way it was. It is entirely
Speaker 1: possible that something happened at the time that whoever did
Speaker 1: it wanted to cover up. If you think about two
Speaker 1: thousand c S. I had been on for about a year.
Speaker 1: The whole country was just obsessed with blood spatter analysis,
Speaker 1: like everybody's figuring out how this stuff works. Okay, So
Speaker 1: what would be a motive to abduct a woman sadly rape? Okay?
Speaker 1: So what is an easy way to to hide the
Speaker 1: evidence of a sexual encounter that was not mutual with
Speaker 1: a body? You burned you and you burned the whole
Speaker 1: thing and there is not a bit of DNA evidence
Speaker 1: left over, so to me, but what time? Sorry, what
Speaker 1: time was this? It was like in early in the morning.
Speaker 1: She left her house at six, The fiers reported at ten,
Speaker 1: So there's time in between abducted and and taken somewhere
Speaker 1: and then dumped and burned. This is this is probably
Speaker 1: not a thing you should say, but it just seems
Speaker 1: really early in the morning for a time like that.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I understand what For some reason that
Speaker 1: just some reason, it seems like the rapists would all
Speaker 1: be from nine pm off, But apparently that's not the case.
Speaker 1: Theyard shifts maybe maybe, or maybe he's just a dude
Speaker 1: and he woke up. I was like, I'm going to
Speaker 1: do some rape in today. I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's hideous, but that's what people do, so okay. So
Speaker 1: that to me is the reason why her crime scene
Speaker 1: would have been treated the way that it was. And
Speaker 1: as for why her wedding ring and purse were taken
Speaker 1: but her other jewelry was left behind, well, there may
Speaker 1: have not been an immediate presumed value to what she
Speaker 1: was hearing. Maybe she was wearing ceramic earrings and a
Speaker 1: necklace that didn't have any obvious value. Why take it
Speaker 1: and then try and figure that out. That's a lot
Speaker 1: of work. Screw it. That's a gold and diamond. And
Speaker 1: I know you have cash in your your purse because
Speaker 1: she was known to use cash and not credit cards,
Speaker 1: so she would have had cash in her wallet, which
Speaker 1: would encourage somebody to just take the whole day a purse.
Speaker 1: So it makes sense. Whereas mcguinnis Morris, all of her
Speaker 1: belongings were there, except possibly for her cell phone. Yeah,
Speaker 1: except possibly for her cell phone. But all of her
Speaker 1: stuff is there. So like, these are the mos to me,
Speaker 1: the motives are the treatments are very very different. For
Speaker 1: one hit man, I agree, I agree, But the other
Speaker 1: reason that you might try to cleanse a case or
Speaker 1: a crime scene like that is, if you have accidentally
Speaker 1: killed the wrong person and you are trying to cover
Speaker 1: up that crime as much as possible. There is that
Speaker 1: right you you know, go through her wallet and go
Speaker 1: oh oops, um, this isn't the right person at all,
Speaker 1: so you take everything and you burn it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a great I doubt that a
Speaker 1: husband would say, my wife's name is Mary McGinnis Morris,
Speaker 1: Please kill Mary McGinnis Morris, and make sure you get
Speaker 1: Mary McGinnis Morris. And here's this photo of us. Look quick, quick, okay,
Speaker 1: go get her. You know, the hitman, it's gonna say
Speaker 1: it's the I D says Mary H. Morris or Mary M. Morris.
Speaker 1: Well more than that, the hitman's got to know. You
Speaker 1: can't just like go driving around town until he runs
Speaker 1: across her. He's got to know, like where she lives
Speaker 1: or where she works are both preferably so it's hard
Speaker 1: to mix the two up. And they crossed the their
Speaker 1: their roots of you know, versus workplaces versus home spaces.
Speaker 1: There was some intersection between the two. So it is
Speaker 1: possible that our Mr Magoo hitman inadvertently spotted the wrong
Speaker 1: Mary and said, oh, well, this Mary is supposed to
Speaker 1: be in this area, so that must be her. But no,
Speaker 1: I agree with you, it's I think it's unlikely. Yea,
Speaker 1: extremely Unlichael. And again you're going to You're going to
Speaker 1: Union Karabid to look from Mary works as a medical
Speaker 1: That's right, I got I gotta mixed up there. You're
Speaker 1: not going to direct us the other Mary and say, oh,
Speaker 1: there goes the other Mary Morris. You have no idea
Speaker 1: that her name is Mary Morris because nobody has told
Speaker 1: you anything about her. No, no, man, don't tend to
Speaker 1: stand out to the offense. Excuse me, what's your name?
Speaker 1: What's your name? I got a contract? What's your name?
Speaker 1: What's your name? Well, now, the the other way they
Speaker 1: could be related is imagined that the killer was actually
Speaker 1: Mary one's husband, J. J. Morris. That would explain why
Speaker 1: the body was burned for the first one, because first
Speaker 1: of all, I mean, you've knocked off your wife, and
Speaker 1: obviously you're the husband. You're gonna be the first suspect,
Speaker 1: so you know, what do you do? You can knock
Speaker 1: off another Mary Morris shortly thereafter. Therefore, it's the immediately
Speaker 1: people are gonna be thinking hit, got hit gone wrong,
Speaker 1: and obviously the attention is going to shift to Mike
Speaker 1: and off of you regardless of Okay, so now you
Speaker 1: you're casting shade on j Morris. Okay, but the same
Speaker 1: it's a possibility, and I'm not going to disagree with that.
Speaker 1: But but regardless, I would imagine that this is just
Speaker 1: in my my guesses about this whole thing. As I've
Speaker 1: already said, I would think that if you were going
Speaker 1: to off somebody and you were going to dispose of
Speaker 1: their body, you would do it one way, and the
Speaker 1: second time you had to do it, you would probably
Speaker 1: most likely follow the same pattern. People are not that
Speaker 1: creating unless you got interrupted, Yeah, there's that. Well, you
Speaker 1: don't really need to, I mean, I mean you think
Speaker 1: about why he might have burned the body in the
Speaker 1: first case, besides hiding evidence. He doesn't because he doesn't
Speaker 1: need a hide DNA of it. It's assuming that it
Speaker 1: was his wife. But imagine the body hadn't been burned,
Speaker 1: then what would he have had to do. He would
Speaker 1: have had to go down to the moregan identify the
Speaker 1: body correct and most people, at least if you're a
Speaker 1: smart murderer, you're going to know your limitations, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna know, you're gonna know whether you actually have any
Speaker 1: acting ability or not. Now, if you murdered your wife
Speaker 1: and you've got an idea the body, um, you know
Speaker 1: you might this could be one area where you could
Speaker 1: really get tripped up. Okay, So I see where you're going, Joe, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. I've never in the reading, And granted, the
Speaker 1: reading about Mary Henderson Morris is a little less robust
Speaker 1: than Mary McGinnis Morris. But most stuff in there does
Speaker 1: not indicate that there was any troubles in the marriage
Speaker 1: or any reasons for him to have done that. But
Speaker 1: let's not forget that. Yeah, no, there wasn't. But let's
Speaker 1: not forget people do things. Well, let's not forget that. Immediately,
Speaker 1: the whole hip thing gone wrong theory immediately popped up
Speaker 1: into everybody. That's the internet part second, d yes, the
Speaker 1: Internet's brain, the police's brains, everybody. And so that really
Speaker 1: took the heat off of JA big time. And so
Speaker 1: there might have been some stuff going on. Who the
Speaker 1: hell knows, I mean, I mean, you don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on. I mean, I've known people who seemed very
Speaker 1: very happily married and well they're divorced. Now, I mean
Speaker 1: that stuff happens. And so again I'm not accusing j
Speaker 1: if anything, but this is a much neglected theory. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well it does explain a few things, because again, the
Speaker 1: whole hit man theory, when you think about it, really
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. So the the other thing about
Speaker 1: the hit man theory that doesn't work is that there
Speaker 1: does appear to be an angle of theft in Mary
Speaker 1: Henderson Morris's death because six months after her death, Jay
Speaker 1: started getting a bill from her calling card. Because this
Speaker 1: is back in the days when you had a calling
Speaker 1: card to make long distance calls to the tune of
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars. The cops track it down. Some teenage
Speaker 1: girl has that card. She says, I found this purse
Speaker 1: in this parking lot in Galveston. She she apparently then
Speaker 1: gave the purse to a friend. The police go to
Speaker 1: that friend who has the purse. It does not obviously
Speaker 1: have any of Mary's stuff in it. You know, this
Speaker 1: person has just chucked all that stuff. But they then
Speaker 1: here's the weird part is they then turn around and
Speaker 1: they go to Mary Henderson Morris's family and they say, hey,
Speaker 1: is this her purse, and they all say, no, she did.
Speaker 1: She didn't know that purse either a it and nothing
Speaker 1: has ever been put out there that if anybody ever
Speaker 1: asked Mary mcguinnis Morris's family if it was her purse
Speaker 1: or be it could be some weirdo robbery killer guy
Speaker 1: who he took her her stuff, you know, her wallet
Speaker 1: or cards or whatever, and tossed it into the next
Speaker 1: purse or the prior purse that he had stolen and
Speaker 1: eventually just did a big dump and dumped it into
Speaker 1: a parking lot and left. Because Galveston is less than
Speaker 1: it's like twenty miles away. It's it's super close. Actually,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's that far away. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: not inconceivable that somebody could have ridden around her purse,
Speaker 1: taken out any items of possible value to him and
Speaker 1: he didn't see any particular value and something like say
Speaker 1: a calling card, so he just left it. Somebody else
Speaker 1: came along and actually took that. But it's it's the
Speaker 1: differences in purses, that's that's the thing where Henderson's Henderson
Speaker 1: to start out, it didn't have to stay in the
Speaker 1: same purse to another too. That's what I'm saying, so
Speaker 1: it's but it's it's a weird thing where suddenly six
Speaker 1: months later it pops up. Jay also started getting weirdo
Speaker 1: phone calls asking for his wife a couple of months
Speaker 1: after she died, though, the cops traced those to an
Speaker 1: apartment complex, and as soon as he stopped saying she's
Speaker 1: not here and started saying, oh, yeah, you can find
Speaker 1: her at and gave the sheriff's department's phone number, the
Speaker 1: guy stopped calling. So, I mean like somebody tortured him
Speaker 1: to a degree. I feel like Jay got jerked around.
Speaker 1: And I don't know whether that's in related that that's
Speaker 1: directly connected to his wife it's death or not. Because
Speaker 1: there are sickos out there who just think that it's
Speaker 1: fun to do that. Yeah, I don't know, there sure are.
Speaker 1: It could have been somebody like me who just concluded
Speaker 1: that he was a real murderer and torture him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it could be to try and shake it out of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't you need to stop doing that? Yeah, and again,
Speaker 1: just just just for the sake of whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: that's just a theory I had. No, I'm not accusing you,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think there's all kinds of random
Speaker 1: possibilities in this one. That's all other theories that we
Speaker 1: have for this episode or for this story. I should say,
Speaker 1: I guess we should give everybody the fun interesting. They've
Speaker 1: been waiting this entire time for details, which is the
Speaker 1: stuff about us, because I know you want to know
Speaker 1: about us, so to talk to us, Actually we probably
Speaker 1: want to know more about me, so to talk to you, Joe,
Speaker 1: you can send an email to Joe at Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. You have to stop talking
Speaker 1: like that, I know. So that's our email address where
Speaker 1: you can send questions, comments, concerns, just about anything we
Speaker 1: will respond to. We have all of our stuff available
Speaker 1: on our website, so that is the episodes as well
Speaker 1: as some of our research for this and all episodes.
Speaker 1: That website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can
Speaker 1: find us on iTunes where you can subscribe and rate.
Speaker 1: You can find us on most of the streaming sources,
Speaker 1: whether that be Stitcher or Google or wherever, and if
Speaker 1: those sites allow you to rate and review, please do.
Speaker 1: We're on social media, so we are on Twitter where
Speaker 1: we're Thinking Sideways. We are also on Reddit. We have
Speaker 1: a thread or forum. But why can I s I Reddit?
Speaker 1: Thank you? Why can I never remember what Reddit does?
Speaker 1: It is? It turns out I grew a beard and
Speaker 1: I realized how much white there was in it, and
Speaker 1: my wife said, oh, you look like Santa Claus and
Speaker 1: I said, oh, damn, the Santa territory. Yet, I know,
Speaker 1: I was really disturbed by what I was, like, what
Speaker 1: did you say? I'm getting that fat crap. We are
Speaker 1: also on social media. We are on Facebook, so we
Speaker 1: have the Facebook page and the Facebook group, so like
Speaker 1: the page, joined the group. Lots of good conversations going
Speaker 1: on in there. We have on the website links to merchandise,
Speaker 1: so we have shirts, we have mugs, we have stickers.
Speaker 1: All that stuff is available. You can find it on
Speaker 1: the right hand panel through both Zazzle and or Red Bubble,
Speaker 1: depending on what you're buying. It's all there, and that's
Speaker 1: really all the fun details unless you want to talk
Speaker 1: to Joe, at which which point you will send an
Speaker 1: email directly to Joe at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com for Joe. Please put in the subject line
Speaker 1: for Joe and expect to not get a response for
Speaker 1: two weeks. All right, Well, everybody, we're going to go
Speaker 1: ahead and wrap this one up and call it, call
Speaker 1: it a night, and we will talk to you next week,
Speaker 1: next week, next time. I'm going to get it right
Speaker 1: the first time. Oh my god bye. It's like he
Speaker 1: had a pair of him. You don't always do. Practice
Speaker 1: makes perfect