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Speaker 1: of things. We simply don't know the answer too. Well.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I,

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Speaker 1: of course Am Steve as usual, joined by Hey, and

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Speaker 1: once again we have another mystery for you this week.

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Speaker 1: We it's as I always do, I'm pulling for the

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Speaker 1: listeners suggestions and this was suggested by Adam and Matt originally,

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Speaker 1: and I'm sure a bunch of other people, but we

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Speaker 1: didn't have room for your name in the list. But

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Speaker 1: the story that we're going to talk about this week,

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Speaker 1: as Joe has dubbed it, is the murders of Mary Morris. Right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's actually possible to murder somebody more than once. Well,

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Speaker 1: it sort of sounds that way, So let's just hop

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Speaker 1: right into our mystery. Our mystery begins on Thursday, October twelve.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand, forty eight year old woman named Mary

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Speaker 1: Henderson Morris got up for a normal work day at

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Speaker 1: her job at Chase Bank on the west side of Houston, Texas.

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Speaker 1: Her husband j walked her out to her Chevy Ilumina

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Speaker 1: at six am, when she typically left, and he watched

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Speaker 1: her drive out of the driveway, turn onto the road,

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Speaker 1: and presumably drive off to the place where she normally

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Speaker 1: stopped to get gas in the morning. Why did he

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Speaker 1: walk her to her car, because that's just something they did.

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Speaker 1: It's probably you know, walk out in Some folks do that.

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Speaker 1: They walk their their spouse out of their car and

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Speaker 1: give them their coffee and a kiss and a hug

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Speaker 1: and then off they go. And that's what he did.

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Speaker 1: Like me, who just grumpily like rolls in out of

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Speaker 1: my bed and into the car. And yeah, and your

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Speaker 1: boyfriend says, don't get killed exactly, So he watches her

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Speaker 1: drive away from their home in Burnett Bay. She may

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Speaker 1: have been seen at a gas station shortly after she

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Speaker 1: left her home, and that gas station was at the

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Speaker 1: junction of Interstate ten and Thompson Road, and there's a

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Speaker 1: bunch of gas stations right in that area. But she

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Speaker 1: from there presumably would have gone on her normal drive

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Speaker 1: heading west across the city to where her job was.

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Speaker 1: She never got there. Well, the thing is is that

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Speaker 1: Mary and Jay were there very close, as we've realized

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Speaker 1: from his walking her out every morning, and they would

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Speaker 1: talk on the phone several times a day. But he

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Speaker 1: made several calls to her cell phone and she never answered,

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Speaker 1: and she thought something was a little off about that.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's maybe it's a big day, busy day, whatever,

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Speaker 1: Except that at about two o'clock, somebody called the house

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Speaker 1: looking for Mary, and not knowing who it was, j

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Speaker 1: just said, well, she's at work. He would later learn

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Speaker 1: that that person was actually from Chase, trying to find

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Speaker 1: out where their employee was. It seems like they would

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Speaker 1: identify themselves, though, doesn't it doesn't It seem like they

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Speaker 1: would say, hello, husband of our employee, this is your

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Speaker 1: wife's employee, or we are just wondering where your wife is.

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Speaker 1: If it was a certain level of manager, I could

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Speaker 1: see that, if it was a certain uh employee, that

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Speaker 1: would say in charge of employees scheduling, and why hasn't

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Speaker 1: this person showed up? And I'm always calling on the

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Speaker 1: yahoos who don't show up. Maybe not so much. I

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Speaker 1: just feel I get you. I'm not not in disagreement

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Speaker 1: that didn't themselves. So to this person calls but doesn't

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Speaker 1: identify themselves. After after, I think it's about four o'clock,

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Speaker 1: you know, Jay and Mary's daughter Maryland, They're getting worried

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Speaker 1: where is she? She hasn't come home. Eventually they find

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Speaker 1: her cell phone in the house, so now they're thinking,

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Speaker 1: oh God, she's been in a car accident or broken down.

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Speaker 1: I'm presuming it must have been I hope, you would hope.

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Speaker 1: But at this point they're thinking, well, she's had something's

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Speaker 1: going wrong and she can't get ahold of us. So

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Speaker 1: at about five o'clock, Jay calls the police and he

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Speaker 1: reports her as missing. About that same time, there are

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's department. They get a call about an abandoned

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Speaker 1: vehicle that's been burned. That car, which is about three

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Speaker 1: miles or that equates to about five kilometers east of

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Speaker 1: there of Mary and Jay's home, which is the opposite

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Speaker 1: direction of where she worked. Absolutely correct. She worked on

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Speaker 1: the west side of town. His car is east of

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Speaker 1: where they live. The call comes, the cops get this

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Speaker 1: call about this burned out vehicle. Well, earlier in the day,

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Speaker 1: the fire department had actually got called for smoke in

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Speaker 1: that same area. The call had come in at about

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Speaker 1: ten twenty am. The fire department said it looked like

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Speaker 1: it was burning leaves. It's you know, it's October that

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Speaker 1: people are burning leaves, and they didn't bother to investigate,

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Speaker 1: but that burning leaves usually smell burning rubber. Uh well,

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Speaker 1: burning leaves tend to be very smoky, I am pretty

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Speaker 1: sure is what that boils down to. But the long

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Speaker 1: and the short of it is is that the fire

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Speaker 1: department doesn't go check it out. But when the cops

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Speaker 1: go to check out this burned vehicle, what they find

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Speaker 1: is a vehicle that has apparently been soaked in some

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Speaker 1: kind of accelerant and lit on fire. And the fire

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Speaker 1: has been so intense that it has melted every piece

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Speaker 1: of rubber on the vehicle, like the tires came off

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Speaker 1: of the car. The heat was so intense inside of

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Speaker 1: the vehicle. I gotta get some of that stuff. It

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Speaker 1: must have been. But inside of the car they find

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Speaker 1: a body and they don't know who it is. But

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Speaker 1: eventually what they're able to do using tooth fragments that

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Speaker 1: they reconstruct, they determine that indeed, it is Mary's Body's body. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: it's Mary because it's her teeth in her skull, so

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Speaker 1: they know it's her. Well, you know, somebody could have

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Speaker 1: put them there. But okay, oh you too. Cut it

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Speaker 1: out right away, and you're already doing this to just

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Speaker 1: monkeying around on things beca nope, never, I am. I

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Speaker 1: am an upstanding mystery citizen. I don't do that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff. She's alive on an island with Dorothy, so anyway,

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Speaker 1: she does not go to Dorothy Island. She is indeed

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Speaker 1: found in the car. Like I said, they don't know.

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Speaker 1: They figured out, but because of the fire, they don't

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Speaker 1: know what the cause of death is. I mean, her

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Speaker 1: body has been burned so severely. There is nothing about

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Speaker 1: Mary's life though, that is an apparent motive for why

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Speaker 1: someone would want to do something like this tour. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the police said the only thing they can confirm that

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Speaker 1: are missing is her purse and her wedding ring. But

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Speaker 1: could they actually confirm that the purse was missing? I am,

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Speaker 1: I have I thought the same thing. I have to

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Speaker 1: guess that they would have found a pile of melted

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Speaker 1: whatever the material is in the plastics that your credit

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Speaker 1: cards and all of that stuff are made up in

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Speaker 1: your handle to yeah, that all there should have been

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Speaker 1: a pile of that detritus and there wasn't. Or debris,

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Speaker 1: not detritis, but of debris. So that's why I thought

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Speaker 1: the same thing. And now the other question crimes seeing

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Speaker 1: no gas can or anything like that was found in

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Speaker 1: or near the vehicle, not that I know of. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: like I said, though, is that you know we just

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Speaker 1: discussed the purse, but also her wedding ring. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: about her wedding ring more in detail later because that

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Speaker 1: is something that people point at is kind of a

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Speaker 1: seedy or nefarious thing, and we'll we'll deal with that

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Speaker 1: when the time comes. I have to tell you now, though,

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Speaker 1: that the next thing that I'm going to say, which

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Speaker 1: happens a day or so after Mary's body has found,

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Speaker 1: is always referred to as alleged. You know. The resist

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Speaker 1: is something that I cannot confirm, but I have to

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Speaker 1: share it because it's in all of the stories. And

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Speaker 1: that is that supposedly, supposedly, allegedly somebody called the Houston

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Speaker 1: Chronicle and they said something to the fact of they

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Speaker 1: got the wrong Mary Morris, ostensibly exactly that's what you

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Speaker 1: were looking for, it is, of course, that's always the

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Speaker 1: word now. I think it goes without saying that. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: Jay and Maryland they're both devastated by Mary's death because

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Speaker 1: there's there's nothing that seems to have motivated this. It

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Speaker 1: seems very random. She didn't live any kind of crazy life.

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Speaker 1: She did work for a bank, but it wasn't as

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Speaker 1: if it was a really crazy, crashed time. So after

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Speaker 1: her funeral. Maryland, her daughter, calls the Medical Examiner's office,

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Speaker 1: this is on the sixteenth of October, to see about

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Speaker 1: picking up her mother's effects, at which point they told

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Speaker 1: her that the effects and the body would be available

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Speaker 1: at the same time, which freaked her out because they've

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Speaker 1: just had a funeral and she can't understand what they're

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Speaker 1: talking about, and so she goes down there. No, she

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Speaker 1: goes down the Medical Examiner's office and they show her

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Speaker 1: a body which is not her mother. Is it Mary

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Speaker 1: Morris though it is indeed Mary Morris. It is Mary

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Speaker 1: McGinnis Morris, So we have to Mary Morris's. Mary McGinnis

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Speaker 1: Morris is a thirty nine year old wife and mother

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Speaker 1: who also lived in the Greater Houston area. She didn't

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Speaker 1: know Mary Henderson Morris at all. The two didn't know

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Speaker 1: each other. Maybe for the sake of easiness, it might

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Speaker 1: be easier to call him Mary one and Mary too.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna stick with Henderson and McGinnis. Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be better because one and two is easy

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Speaker 1: for me to confuse. McGuinness lived about ten miles away

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Speaker 1: from Henderson. McGinnis originally was from West Virginia, but she

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Speaker 1: had moved to the area to take job with Union Carbide.

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Speaker 1: She was a nurse practitioner and she had taken the

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Speaker 1: position of medical director with that company, so she had

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Speaker 1: moved there for that job. Sounds like a good job.

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Speaker 1: On October fifte which was a Sunday, McGinnis ran a

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Speaker 1: number of errands. Uh, you know, it's kind of a

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Speaker 1: normal Sunday. She made a couple of different stops before

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Speaker 1: she stopped off at Union Carbide to give a flu

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Speaker 1: shot to her friend Lori Gemmil and from there she

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Speaker 1: went to the Ecker drug Store where at about five

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Speaker 1: thirty at night, she called Lorie and told her she

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Speaker 1: saw someone who has given her the creeves and said

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Speaker 1: she was going to go back to the office and

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Speaker 1: log out of her computer and then head home. About

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Speaker 1: twelve minutes later, a call comes into one from McGuinness

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Speaker 1: and she is as reported, she's in a frantic state.

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Speaker 1: We don't know what's said on the call. We don't

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Speaker 1: know what's heard on that call because that call has

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Speaker 1: never been released. But that's the last contact that anybody

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Speaker 1: can recorded contact of Mary McGinnis, And we don't know

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Speaker 1: if she logged out of her computer don't, so we

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Speaker 1: don't know if she probably didn't make it to work,

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Speaker 1: but maybe I would presume her work was about a

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Speaker 1: five plus mile drive away from the Eckert if I

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Speaker 1: remember right where she where she was found was at

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Speaker 1: least a five minute or more drive from Eckerd. So

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Speaker 1: for her to have been able to get back to

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Speaker 1: work and then to that spot seems like a stretch

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Speaker 1: to think she'd ever got back to work. Yeah, or

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Speaker 1: she got back to work, logged out back to the

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Speaker 1: parking lot, then called nine one one. That doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: I was just wondering how close, if any, she got

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Speaker 1: to work at all. I don't think that she did.

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Speaker 1: McGinnis's husband, Mike Morris, he reported her missing that evening

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Speaker 1: when she didn't come home. He said that he tried

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Speaker 1: to call her continually but he never got any answer.

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Speaker 1: And it was but it was ringing straight to voicemail.

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Speaker 1: It was ringing and there would eventually you know what, Actually,

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Speaker 1: I don't know that it ever actually went to voicemail.

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Speaker 1: Based on some stuff we're gonna talk about in a bit,

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Speaker 1: and now Mike called. He called nine one one also

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Speaker 1: to reporter missing. I believe he called the Sheriff's department.

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Speaker 1: Most people don't call one to make a missing person's report,

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Speaker 1: so I imagine that he actually called the Sheriff's department directly.

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Speaker 1: So at that time they were either unaware of the

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Speaker 1: nine one one called she had made or the connection.

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Speaker 1: I think they were unaware of the connection between the two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like we don't know exactly what happened from

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Speaker 1: the time that that nine one one call ended and

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Speaker 1: until the time of her death. What we do know

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Speaker 1: is that the next day someone spotted mcguinness's dodge in

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Speaker 1: Trepid on West Little York Street, which is near Highway

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Speaker 1: to nineties, so it's kind of a clover leaf offshoot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you totally that the car was found. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: it was less than five miles away from where the

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Speaker 1: drug store that she had talked to Laurie was at

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Speaker 1: the Chord, and when officers found her body, it was

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Speaker 1: in the car with the passengers door open. It was

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Speaker 1: apparent that she had been beaten, but the scene was

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Speaker 1: staged to look like she had committed suicide. She did

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Speaker 1: commit suicide, maybe the gun that was in her hand,

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Speaker 1: the gun that was used to kill her, Whether she

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Speaker 1: did it herself for someone else did was the family's gun.

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Speaker 1: It was registered to her husband, Mike, and forensic tests

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Speaker 1: would later confirm two different things, one that she had

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Speaker 1: been gagged and two that she had indeed been as

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Speaker 1: I said, shot with that specific gun. So they had

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Speaker 1: done ballistics to confirm that was the one that did

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Speaker 1: it and shot where in the head, like I know,

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Speaker 1: the throat, between the eyes and the back of the

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Speaker 1: head she looked like. So I don't know the exact

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Speaker 1: location because that is not given away in any the reporting.

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Speaker 1: But to be a parent to a stage like a suicide,

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Speaker 1: it has to be either under the chin or through

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Speaker 1: the side of the temple, would be my guest, or

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Speaker 1: the mouth. Yeah, that's yeah, that's I consider that and

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Speaker 1: under the chin very similar. But yes, yeah, so those

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Speaker 1: are the those are things. But it staged to be

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Speaker 1: like a suicide. We can guess it probably wasn't in

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Speaker 1: the mouth if she was gagged, If she was gagged

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Speaker 1: and then shot and the gag was removed, yes, if

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Speaker 1: the gag was removed and then she was shot, no,

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Speaker 1: all right, yeah, they stupid ordering. Yeah, so she wasn't

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Speaker 1: gag when they found her body, that right, they were

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Speaker 1: just were able to tell what from ligature marks that

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Speaker 1: she had been previously correct, they could tell. They could

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Speaker 1: tell she had been hit a number of times. That's

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Speaker 1: why it's referred to as being beaten and that she

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Speaker 1: had a gag in her mouth at some point before

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Speaker 1: her death, and the time of death was determined to

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Speaker 1: be what do not know, it's it's I'm guessing the

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Speaker 1: window is somewhere shortly after the one call. I mean,

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Speaker 1: for all I know, all any of us know then

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Speaker 1: one call recorded the shot that killed her. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but it's I think it's always presumed that it's right

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Speaker 1: around the time frame that five forty time frame. Two

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Speaker 1: is the long time of the nine one one call.

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Speaker 1: One would guess that there would be mention of the

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Speaker 1: shot that killed her being heard. So the thing with

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Speaker 1: the nine one one call is that the law enforcement agency,

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's Department, said it was so disturbing that they

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Speaker 1: did not want to release it and its contents to

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Speaker 1: the public. So I can't say two parents. Almost every

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Speaker 1: single place that you'll see this on, Mary Henderson Morris,

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Speaker 1: like I said before, had almost nothing in her life

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Speaker 1: that could have ad to her demise in that way.

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Speaker 1: Mary McGinnis Morris, however, did have a number of different

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Speaker 1: things that could have led to the scenario where she

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Speaker 1: lost her life. So let's talk about several of the

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Speaker 1: things in Mary McGinnis Morris's life that seemed to point

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Speaker 1: suspect at who or what may have caused her death.

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Speaker 1: The first one is a gentlemine by the name of Dwayne.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna use his last name. You can find

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Speaker 1: out on the internet if you really want, but he's

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Speaker 1: gone through a lot about this. But sometime in the

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Speaker 1: beginning of two thousand, Union Carbide Heart hired a male

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Speaker 1: nurse and to what degree I don't know this took place,

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Speaker 1: but apparently he and McGinnis did not get along and

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Speaker 1: they clashed and it sounds like actually they were friendly

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Speaker 1: at first, but thanks kind of what south maybe yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, there there are things about her that seem

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Speaker 1: a bit prickly in time, so I could see that

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Speaker 1: how that could be, I don't know. That's the hard

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Speaker 1: part is that when it's it becomes a he said,

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Speaker 1: she said scenario, you know, after events like this take place.

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Speaker 1: But the long and the shortage of it is that

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Speaker 1: they they did not get along. I don't know whether

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Speaker 1: it was that he questioned her in front of other

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Speaker 1: staff or if he went around her directly to upper

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Speaker 1: management and questioned her ability at her job, but either

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Speaker 1: way they were not on good terms. She was not

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Speaker 1: happy with him. Mcguinnis had told people after their their

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Speaker 1: spats were going on and all of the tension, she

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Speaker 1: had told people that she believed that Dwayne was capable

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Speaker 1: of hurting her. Was a guy. Well, there's that. And

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Speaker 1: according to her husband Mike, it's around the time that

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Speaker 1: all of the clashes were happening that she asked him

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Speaker 1: for his un as well as lessons, and then started

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Speaker 1: carrying that gun in the car with her underneath the seat.

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Speaker 1: And I was according to Jess Micer, according to so

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Speaker 1: other people knew that she was carrying the gun. This

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Speaker 1: is this thing that I don't get sometimes as people

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Speaker 1: are carrying a gun for their protection and they tell

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Speaker 1: everybody they've got the gun there. I don't tell somebody

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Speaker 1: I had a gun hit in my car, telling where

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Speaker 1: it is. Yeah. So, but but yes, people knew that

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Speaker 1: she was she was packing. She also had told people

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Speaker 1: that she was going to stop carrying the gun, but

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Speaker 1: Mike says that she never had any She never said

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Speaker 1: that to him, and he, as far as he knew,

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Speaker 1: she had no intention to stop carrying that. The tension

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Speaker 1: between Dwayne and mcguinnis reached a climax on Friday in

336
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Speaker 1: two thousand when she came into her office and she

337
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Speaker 1: found that things were wrong. And by that, I mean,

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Speaker 1: depending on the accounting, she found some of her stuff

339
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: had been moved around and the pictures on her desk

340
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 1: had been turned around, or there's other accounts that basically

341
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 1: imply that her desk was completely and utterly destroyed and

342
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Speaker 1: everything was knocked around. Cool. It's kind of psycho so

343
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Speaker 1: to you, Yeah, well, it depends on how they're trying

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Speaker 1: to portray portray Dwayne, I feel. But the thing that

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00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 1: really gets Dwayne in trouble here is that written on

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Speaker 1: a desk calendar on another desk, which we have to

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Speaker 1: presume is his, are the words death to her. M Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I gotta say that. It sounds like a frame up

349
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Speaker 1: to me. Yes, I mean that's super psycho behavior. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's not the super psycho on his part or her part,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, frankly, you know, I mean, if I'm

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Speaker 1: planning on like stocking and murdering somebody. I don't write

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Speaker 1: death threats on my desk calendar at work or yeah

354
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Speaker 1: like that, like somebody was trying to get somebody. I

355
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Speaker 1: would also, but I would also mentioned I don't know

356
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Speaker 1: if this is the appropriate time to have the discussion

357
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Speaker 1: or not, but I will just say that, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: she called her friend, who presumably also you, Dwayne, and

359
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 1: she said, some guy, right, she said, some guy is

360
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Speaker 1: giving me the creeps. Not oh crap, Dwayne is here

361
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Speaker 1: and he looks like a psychopath. I mean, if he

362
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Speaker 1: were actually following her, if it was him personally, one

363
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Speaker 1: would suspect that she would just name him. Lori has

364
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Speaker 1: said that mcguinnis told her at the on that call

365
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Speaker 1: from the Ecker drug store that she thought the man

366
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Speaker 1: she recognized him, and it's implied that he may have

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Speaker 1: been a friend of Dwayne's. So there's there's there again.

368
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Speaker 1: The people will keep working the connections back and back

369
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Speaker 1: into place. A lot of people want to believe Dwayne

370
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Speaker 1: did something here. There's a lot of people who want

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Speaker 1: to believe several people are guilty. Every time there are

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Speaker 1: there are people really working to pin this on certainly.

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go ahead and say one final thought

374
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Speaker 1: before we move on, and that is, not only is

375
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Speaker 1: that an insane level of crazy for Dwayne to be

376
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Speaker 1: over a job to like potentially murder someone, but you

377
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Speaker 1: also rope in one of his friends to be like,

378
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Speaker 1: oh my god, I hate this woman at works so much.

379
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Speaker 1: I hate my boss so much that I'm going to

380
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Speaker 1: murder her. Why don't you Why don't you come in

381
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Speaker 1: on it with me? That's an even next level of insanity. Well,

382
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Speaker 1: that's like creating more witnesses. Yeah, and you know how

383
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Speaker 1: Joe feels about that, absolutely believe no witnesses there. Yeah, okay,

384
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Speaker 1: so okay, she finds the note we're gonna go back

385
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Speaker 1: to that to her, she freaks out. I personally think

386
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Speaker 1: she was trying to get a pt O day because

387
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Speaker 1: she gets the rest of the day off her boss.

388
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Speaker 1: Her bosses tell her not to come in on the

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Speaker 1: next day at all. Later that day, Dwayne comes in.

390
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: He said apparently was going to come in to either

391
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Speaker 1: submit or to check that his time card had gone

392
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,960
Speaker 1: in to be submitted for pay. It's at that point

393
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Speaker 1: that he has confronted about this whole thing with McGinnis

394
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Speaker 1: on the desk calendar her desk. Depending on the accountings,

395
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Speaker 1: the level of the escalation of this varies, but he

396
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 1: is confronted. He is then escorted out of the building

397
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Speaker 1: and told not to return. He's not actually fired, just

398
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Speaker 1: so you know, because he didn't work directly for Union Carbide.

399
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Speaker 1: Apparently he worked for a contracting company and so after

400
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Speaker 1: a period of time he was transferred to another facility,

401
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: so he didn't actually get fired, though it's always referred

402
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: to as fired. If you read to post from Dwayne himself,

403
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: he explains that part of it, they tell him not

404
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: to come back, so he didn't lose his job. He

405
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: didn't lose his job. Well that's good because frankly, you know,

406
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Speaker 1: I think that it very likely was not him who

407
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,400
Speaker 1: scrawled the death threat. Well, we don't even know if

408
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 1: the death threat Joe and I'm we're going to talk

409
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: about that later. But that's not even really a death threat.

410
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 1: That's just like a weird scrawling. Yeah, and it was,

411
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Speaker 1: let's not forget. There's also in the depending on the

412
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Speaker 1: version you read, it's there's something to the effect of

413
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: after they escort Dwayne out of the building, he's at

414
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Speaker 1: the window, banging at it, screaming to talk to Mary

415
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: McGinnis Morris. I just generally just way board out there.

416
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:46,719
Speaker 1: I just generally don't believe that people are that crazy.

417
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: I mean, there, yes, there are like people that are

418
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: that crazy in this world, but generally speaking, I feel

419
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 1: like you would, you know, at this point in the story,

420
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: would be saying, and here's the insane history of Dwayne

421
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: and his life and how he been an insane person

422
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 1: his entire life. Although in fairness, you know, I mean

423
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: you're talking a building. He's he can't come back in

424
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: the door because he's told he's not welcome there, but

425
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 1: he wants to talk to Mary. It's one of those

426
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Speaker 1: one of those big ones with not opening windows. He's

427
00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: banging on the windows, which you're thick, by the way,

428
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: trying to get someone his attention, and then he asked

429
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: to in order to make his voice heard, scream. He's

430
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: got to yell I want to talk to Mary, you know,

431
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: And it gets and it doesn't mean he's gone nuts.

432
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: It might just mean he thinks she's and he would

433
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 1: like to speak with her. So I was going to

434
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: talk about this later on, but we'll just talk about

435
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 1: this real briefly now, which is depending, like I said,

436
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: depending on the version that you hear. Are you going

437
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: to talk about the car chases? No, there's no car chases. No,

438
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: there were actually reportedly like about seventeen high speed car

439
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: chases in the Houston area, a lot of explosions, three

440
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: buildings burned to the ground about this time. He didn't

441
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: hear about any of this. This is part of the

442
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: whole Killer Syde work from the future theory. You're not

443
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: going to talk about that at all, No, No, I'm not. No.

444
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,000
Speaker 1: What I was going to talk about was okay, Now,

445
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: what I was going to talk about is the fact

446
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: that Dwayne has been very vocal and he's gone on

447
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 1: the Internet about this. But what seems to have prompted

448
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: him to do so is the fact that this particular

449
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: story was covered by Unsolved Mysteries back in two thousand

450
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: and two. And yes, I know I did too Unsolved

451
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: Mystery episodes in a row. I'm really trying to screw

452
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: with people until they're all available on the internet, so Amazon,

453
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,239
Speaker 1: take the hint. But this is on there. And in

454
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: that episode, the actor who portrays him does a bit

455
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 1: of an over the top job of acting out his

456
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: part of banging on the windows and screaming for her,

457
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: and that seems to have set him off on his

458
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: campaign of self defense, which you will find on many

459
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: many wards. All right, well, let's go. Let's move forward

460
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: from the that possible reason that would have created the

461
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 1: situation that Mary McGinnis Morris could have been killed and

462
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: Dwayne wanted to like, you know, murder her for everything

463
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: that happened at the job. The second possible thing in

464
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 1: her life that could have set this situation up is

465
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: potentially a affair and a marriage that was on the

466
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:34,120
Speaker 1: rocks when Mike and Mary McGinnis Morris moved to the area.

467
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 1: Like I said, she came for that job. Her husband,

468
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: Mike didn't. And I don't know if he had a

469
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: job and he lost it or he just never got one,

470
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: but he seems to have had some issues in securing

471
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:54,239
Speaker 1: employment for two years. That's a long time, it is,

472
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: and that that does some terrible things to to a

473
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: person when you're trying to find worship that long. They

474
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: have a team age daughter, so I know that he

475
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: probably you know, spent a lot of time with her

476
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: daughter because he could. But there's also accusations of infidelity.

477
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: He suspected that his wife was having an affair, and

478
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: he says when he confronted them, they looked him in

479
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: the eye and convinced him that there was nothing untoward

480
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: going on. They they I don't know who the second

481
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: person in the they is, but I also know that

482
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:36,679
Speaker 1: some places you'll read that say that mcguinnis had confided

483
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: in friends that she had found somebody and she was

484
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: in love, but she wasn't going to leave Mike because

485
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,719
Speaker 1: of her daughter. She wasn't willing to split the marriage up.

486
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: People do that, they put their own happiness before, uh after,

487
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: that of their children in the security, which is normal,

488
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 1: but that appears to me what she said she was

489
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: doing it well. I mean, you know, there's also like

490
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: popular of crushes. I mean, when you're with somebody for

491
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: thirty or forty years, you're going to find a person

492
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: every once in a while you're attracted to that person.

493
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: But when you're married and you can make your commitment

494
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: to the marriage, hopefully you're bright enough by the time

495
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 1: weset age you're not going to actually move run after

496
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: the thing that seems you know, sparkly she's n year old,

497
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 1: lady should but it sounds like she did. Maybe yeah

498
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: to her friend does. But Mike couldn't entirely appear to

499
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: trust her, though he said he did because he was

500
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: known to follow her around. I know, you think a

501
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,240
Speaker 1: sign of a very normal loving relationship. I do it

502
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: to my wife all the time. Honey, It's not really me.

503
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: I swear, I'm gonna have to have a little conversation

504
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,479
Speaker 1: with your wife. Don't do that. Actually, With you know,

505
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: the modern electronic devices, you don't even need to follow

506
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: people around physically anymore. You can can really monitor the

507
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 1: crap out of somebody. You really can't their phone. It

508
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 1: wasn't thing you put in your key chain. You can

509
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: just toss that in somebody's car and track it. Yeah,

510
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,440
Speaker 1: you don't even need to do that. You just have

511
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: to like convince them it's a good idea to have

512
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 1: the find my Friends part activated. Oh yeah, that's true.

513
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: That's true. Well, I'm really done. I'm really bad at

514
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 1: convincing people to use other technologies. So hiding technology is

515
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: my okay, final final thing, whether it is Mike or

516
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: somebody else, which possibly could be the final thing about

517
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: Mary McGinnis Morris that could have put her into this

518
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: situation is that she had a rather sizeable life insurance policy.

519
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: It was somewhere depending on the source, between five hundred

520
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: to seven hundred thousand dollars. Was that in today's money,

521
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: like five hundred five thousand dollars? Yeah, Actually, Joe's pretty ready,

522
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: so that's not that beasts like almost twenty years ago.

523
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: Just but it's not a huge difference, not as huge. Yeah, Now,

524
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: why exactly? I mean, well, it seems pretty obvious why

525
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: that would matter, But we're going to delve into some

526
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: of the reasons of why that five hundred to seven

527
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars really could have been really really important here. Well, gee,

528
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: I wonder why, Yeah, exactly. So I'm gonna go jump

529
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: on the internet and I'm going to research why five

530
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: hundred seven hundred thousand dollars in life insurance is important.

531
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: While I'm doing that, let's take a quick break. Hey, folks,

532
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,719
Speaker 1: if you watch TV, then you probably know that your

533
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: town is at least two mattress store change. And if

534
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: there's one thing those guys have in common is said

535
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: their commercials are all really annoying. Wouldn't you like to

536
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 1: see those commercials go away? Well? Now you can make

537
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: that happen and get a great night's sleep while you're

538
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 1: at it. Thanks to the folks at Casper, there's a

539
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: whole new mattress game in town. Casper Mattress was named

540
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: by Time magazine is one of the best inventions of

541
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: and there's a reason for it. They're very well engineered

542
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: with memory phone to create a great sleep surface, which

543
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: I really love. I have a Casper mattress and it's

544
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: greats the best mattress I've ever had. So you can

545
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,440
Speaker 1: order one today risk free for a hundred nights from

546
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,360
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547
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548
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,600
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549
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: out for a few weeks or months, and if you

550
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: don't love it, which I doubt, but if you don't,

551
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: Casper will pick it up no cost to you and

552
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: refund all your money. Cast Pro offers no cost shipping

553
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,240
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554
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Speaker 1: and four point eight stars, they're on their way to

555
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: become the Internet's favorite mattress. And I know it's my favorite.

556
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: So get fifty bucks off towards any mattress purchased by

557
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: going to dub dub dub casper dot com slash sideways

558
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: and using the opera code sideways. That's dub dub dub

559
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: casper dot com slash sideways and remember that opera code sideways.

560
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: So put an annoying mattress store out of business and

561
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: get a great night's sleep with Casper. And we're back.

562
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: And it turns out it's important because it's five hundred

563
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,959
Speaker 1: to seven hundred thousand dollars and I don't know how

564
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: I didn't figure that out the first time. So it's

565
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: five seven depending on how she died or what, depending

566
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: on the policy and the reporting that you look at.

567
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: That's where the variance and the figure is. It's either

568
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 1: five hundred or seven. Half a million dollars is half

569
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 1: a million dollars, I mean it's a half a million

570
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: reasons a lot of money. It's not bad, yeah, I mean,

571
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: I mean I know, no, of course not. No, you

572
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: wouldn't be that. I know you wouldn't you belie You're

573
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: not secretly a murderer. No, So let's go ahead and

574
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 1: get into theories. Theory number one, which is the Internet's

575
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 1: most popular theory this was totally a hit gone wrong

576
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: or a killer cyber. No, no, not killer cyboards. You

577
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: gotta stop in the future. Nope, nope, this is not terminator. Yeah,

578
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: they got the wrong Mary Morris. That's where you're going with. Now,

579
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 1: I see what you're doing. They just decided, I don't

580
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: know all that goes in themes, so I'll just get

581
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: the phone book out. Now. Arnold is not involved, damnit No, no,

582
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,320
Speaker 1: D's okay. So the theory is that someone be it

583
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 1: Mike or Dwayne or somebody else, they put out a

584
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: hit on Mary McGinnis Morris. It turns out that whoever

585
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: did this hired the hit man equivalent of Mr Magoo,

586
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: and that person killed Mary Henderson Morris instead of Mary

587
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: McGinnis Moore's. In the mistaken belief they had had they

588
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 1: got the right person, and then when they figured out

589
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: they had killed the wrong person, they went back to

590
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,279
Speaker 1: then do the job right, which is why Mary McGinnis

591
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: Morris was subsequently killed. Well, they don't. I mean they're

592
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: both white women, approximately the same height, approximately the same build,

593
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 1: ten years apart less than ten years apart, the same

594
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: har color, the same hair length, basically as when they

595
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: look pretty similar. They drove cars that though they were

596
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: different makes from different manufacturers, they were very similar basic

597
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 1: bloss a dance, the same color and everything. I can't

598
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 1: remember the color, but I know that um Henderson Henderson

599
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 1: Henderson had a Chevy Lumina. First Mary Henderson Morris had

600
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 1: the Lumina, and then Mary mcguinnis Morris had a Dodge.

601
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,439
Speaker 1: Was it an intrepid Yeah, yeah, which if you look

602
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: at the those models and say within a four year

603
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: eight time bracket of the year two thousand, they look

604
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: basically the same. They're just as I refer to them,

605
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: bloss a dance all look the same. So there's there's

606
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: nothing really distinct. So that's what this is based on.

607
00:35:54,160 --> 00:36:00,320
Speaker 1: This theory then instantly splits into several sub theory reads.

608
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: Before we hit those sub theories, though, there's there's something

609
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 1: that you'll always see in the reading which I don't

610
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,720
Speaker 1: completely agree with, but that that reading will always say

611
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: that point out how Mary Henderson Morris's wedding ring was missing,

612
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 1: and it will also say that that is typically done

613
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 1: because supposedly hit men take the wedding ring of the

614
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: person they're killing to prove that they hit happened. I

615
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 1: thought it was their heads or their hands. Okay, you know, frankly,

616
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: I don't see the point to it, because, I mean,

617
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna find if you read the papers,

618
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: you'll find out whether he succeeded or not. In Hollywood,

619
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,280
Speaker 1: this makes sense in a situation where it's a drug

620
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: kingpen trying to track down a snitch who is in hiding,

621
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,239
Speaker 1: and you have to bring back proof of the kill.

622
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: Maybe I could see that the man that goes to

623
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: bed every night with that woman. Yeah. Well, but I

624
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: mean even then, it's like, it's not it's a ring.

625
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: It comes off a person's live body. It's not. There's

626
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: no proof in anything on the wedding ring. And furthermore,

627
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: the fact that her purse and her wedding ring room

628
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 1: missing just means that somebody wanted a little extra dough

629
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: on the side. Because you could just pawn all that

630
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: stuff off. It doesn't mean that they took it as

631
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 1: a token to like prove that they had successfully done

632
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: something that's silly. And also, by the way, well people

633
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: take their wedding rings off from time to time, and

634
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: that happens not because they're screwing around it maybe they're

635
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: cleaning or whatever. You know, I take a shower, I

636
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: take mine off, and then I've forgotten it and hours

637
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: later like, oh crap, I guess I'm not married. Finally, yeah,

638
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: right on. But but the wedding ring was ever found,

639
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: never found. I guess one possibility, I don't know. I'm

640
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: sorry again. We could be just jumping the gun here

641
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 1: a little bit. But I guess one possibility is since

642
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 1: the car was so destroyed, the purple thought that it

643
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: probably would make it much harder to identify the body

644
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: if he took the wedding ring and the purse with him, right,

645
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: because they wouldn't melt as much. So if you know,

646
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: still say like, oh that's the wedding ring, that's her

647
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: wedding rings. Yeah, if things didn't melt or didn't burn

648
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 1: as much. Did you know, did they say anything about finding, like, say,

649
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: a golden nugget in the car? No? And I have

650
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: some I have some very I personally have different feelings

651
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 1: as to why Henderson's car was burned, but we'll talk

652
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: about that later. But um, like I said, it doesn't

653
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,040
Speaker 1: make any sense that if you're the guy that goes

654
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 1: to bed with this woman every night in the same

655
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 1: bed that you would need proof. And if it's Dwayne,

656
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense because you run in the

657
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: same circles and you know all the same people. So again,

658
00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:58,839
Speaker 1: this is the silly thing the hit man. But we're

659
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: gonna run down the hit theories. Hit theory number one

660
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: is that Mike set it up. And there are a

661
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: lot of things that make people think that Mike set

662
00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: up the hit. But if he did, he did some

663
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 1: really dumb things. The first of which is that there

664
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: is a four minute call from his phone to his

665
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 1: wife's phone two hours after call came in from her

666
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 1: from her that frantic her call to the cops two

667
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: hours later, Yeah, two hours later, there's a four minute

668
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,359
Speaker 1: call log from his phone to her and we are

669
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: talking a cell phone, correct their cell phones. When confronted

670
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,360
Speaker 1: about it, he said that there's got to be a

671
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: problem with the phone company because what he did is

672
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: he just let it ring and ring and ring in

673
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: hopes that she would pick up, and it just kept rang. Well. Yeah,

674
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 1: and this is the year two thousand. Win Voicemail was

675
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: not a default feature on a call plan. You had

676
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,840
Speaker 1: to in roll and pay for it, was it? Yes,

677
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: I worked for. We've we talked about this a week

678
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,279
Speaker 1: or two. Goo. I worked for a phone company at

679
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 1: this time, and you had to enroll and pay certain

680
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 1: plans required you to pay for voicemail, so they probably

681
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: didn't have voicemail a good man, and Mike might have

682
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: actually been in one of those stubborn movies where he

683
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 1: just said, screw you. I know you're there. I'm just

684
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: going to set the phone down and let it ring

685
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,480
Speaker 1: and ring and ring. And problem is it should not

686
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 1: have registered as a call. It wasn't picked up. Yeah,

687
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't picked up, Yes, unless I was picked up

688
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: by voicemail, but picked up by some shouldn't have rung

689
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 1: for four minutes, right, it should it could have been.

690
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: It should have gotten the eventual disconnect from the phone

691
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,439
Speaker 1: company and not sat there then. Well, although I will

692
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: say um, at least every voicemail I've ever had, the

693
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 1: default is that the voicemail cut you off after five minutes.

694
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: It'll let you leave a five minute long message and

695
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 1: that's the max. So I don't I don't know what

696
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 1: it was at that point, but I guess it's possible

697
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: he may be you know, called and thought he hung

698
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: up and put the phone down and it rang and

699
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 1: a hit voicemail and then it was just a blank message.

700
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: But even then they should have found Yeah, no, I

701
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 1: don't like it. The cell company should have ended the

702
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: call after about a minute. That's apparently typical. So that's

703
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: one problem they're like we talked about, you know, he

704
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: had he they would have had to have had this

705
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,239
Speaker 1: voicemail for what you're talking about, for it have gone

706
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 1: through it eventually gotten kicked off. I've never seen any

707
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:38,320
Speaker 1: records that show the call on Mary's records and Mike's

708
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: records to show it a real call, because to me,

709
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: if it's a real connected call, it should be registered

710
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:50,320
Speaker 1: on both phones from and well, you know, I haven't

711
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: seen that, so I can't. I can't confirm that that's

712
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: truly what happens here. But the police are pretty sure

713
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: that there that he is lying through his teeth because

714
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 1: the problem is that he had no reason to think

715
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: that his wife was missing at that point unless he

716
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 1: had hired a hit, made a killer. Okay, I'm if

717
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 1: you're on the side of Mike is innocent and he

718
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 1: didn't do it. For him to have made a four

719
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: minute ringing, I'm going to get your attention answer the

720
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: phone call. He has said, I was distraught and I

721
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 1: just let it ring and ring and ring and hopes

722
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: that she would answer it. That doesn't make any sense.

723
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: The other problem is he was at the movie theater

724
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: with his daughter. Why would he be freaking out? I mean, okay,

725
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 1: maybe Mary was supposed to meet him at the theater

726
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 1: and she didn't show up, But sitting there for four

727
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 1: minutes ringing, ringing, ringing is pretty extreme. Well, two things.

728
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: One is I stand by my theory that it's possible

729
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: that he thought he hung up and he didn't. Yeah,

730
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: he said that he let it ring that so he

731
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: affirmed that he sat there with the phone for four minutes.

732
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: The other thing I'll say is that apparently he was

733
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: following her with his car because he really didn't trust her.

734
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 1: So if he in his mind had you know, worked

735
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: up that she was with her lover for him to

736
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: just be like again, as Joe said, you know, kind

737
00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 1: of like screw you. I know you're there, I'm gonna

738
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: leave this phone ringing while you're you know, getting it

739
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: on with your lover because that'll be a distraction and

740
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: then you'll have to you know, confront me at some point.

741
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: I mean that I'm not going to I can get

742
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: myself to that insane headspace on my most insane, hormonal moments.

743
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: But I mean it's still it's not a great theory,

744
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: and it's a little counter to some of the things

745
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 1: that he said. Yeah, I totally understand where you're coming from.

746
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 1: He said some things that right, Well, because I think

747
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 1: I think you would, you would say I thought she

748
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: was cheating on me, so I let it ring because

749
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: I was trying to get a hold of her. Not

750
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: I thought she was missing, you know. And by the way,

751
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: her cell phone was found in her car. Correct. I

752
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: can't say yes to that because it's never stated if

753
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: it was. The case is technically open, so of course

754
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: the records from the police are not available. I don't

755
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 1: know if indeed her phone was found there. I have.

756
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,879
Speaker 1: I was gonna say at one point, well, I saw

757
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: a picture of her phone record, but except I don't

758
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 1: know that that's actually real, because as we talked about

759
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: in the last story that I did, it was an

760
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,080
Speaker 1: Unsolved Mysteries episode of and so I think that's I

761
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: think that's some kind of mocked up phone record. So

762
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: I have I have no idea. I can't say if

763
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: her phone was there not, but if he wasn't calling her,

764
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: if he was calling the hit man, that makes absolutely

765
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 1: no sense. It's the stupidest thing in the world to do.

766
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 1: Any should know better. Well, the hit man, he has

767
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: a cell phone, and yeah, I'm sure he does. I mean,

768
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: he had the whole idea of calling the hit man

769
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: and his wife's cell phone. It's kind of silly, super silly. Yeah, okay,

770
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: so let's let's keep going forward though with the mic

771
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: set up the hit theory. Another thing that makes people

772
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: finger him as the bad guy is that his wife

773
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: was known to wear a ring that wasn't on her

774
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,399
Speaker 1: body at the time that it was found. This isn't

775
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 1: your wedding ring. Wedding, by the way, I don't know that,

776
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: but this was another ring. I have to I have

777
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: to presume it was. But this is you know, I mean,

778
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: women wear multiple rings and somewhere a certain ring all

779
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: the time, and she was known to wear one of

780
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 1: these rings on a regular basis and it was not

781
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: there with her body. He reported it missing to the police,

782
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: but then his daughter was seen wearing that ring several

783
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 1: months later, at which point when he was confronted with it.

784
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: He said that he had founded in the house and

785
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 1: he just forgot to tell the cops. Which if you

786
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: think about this from the angle of a man who

787
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: has lost his wife and is trying to deal with

788
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: his grieving daughter and he finds a ring, or his

789
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 1: daughter finds the ring, he's not going to make a

790
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 1: big deal out of it because he's trying to hold

791
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: his his freaking life together. I can see how this

792
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 1: is not a big thing to call the cops and say, oh, hey,

793
00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: that's that's sterling silver ring she wore all the time

794
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,239
Speaker 1: with a little etching on it. Yeah, we found it

795
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: especially important. Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say,

796
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,319
Speaker 1: especially if you know, they said, okay, so what was

797
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: she usually wearing and he, you know, would have said,

798
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,439
Speaker 1: I don't know, she you know, a shirt that looked

799
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: like this, and she often wore this ring, and you know,

800
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: jeans and probably these shoes and that, you know, And

801
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: that's you know, in the heat of the moment, when

802
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 1: you're worried about your wife, that you say that, and

803
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,200
Speaker 1: then you know, months later you find that ring. You're

804
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: not going to think, oh, the police will want to

805
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: know about this. You're gonna just say, oh, this was

806
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: a ring that was really special to your mother, you

807
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 1: should have it. Or the daughter finds it and says,

808
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: I found mom's ring. Honey, where the ring. Take If

809
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 1: it makes you feel, if it, if it helps, do it, yes,

810
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: do whatever you got to, whatever you know, hocket and

811
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: buy some drugs, do whatever you do. Know that's not

812
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: what happened. Let's not do that now before people. Uh,

813
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: you know, I've said a couple of statements. I feel

814
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: like maybe I've defended Mike a little bit. I also

815
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 1: kind of beat on him a little bit for the

816
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: stupid things if he was the one who did this.

817
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,400
Speaker 1: There's some other things that Mike has done that a

818
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: lot of people don't like that have put him in

819
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 1: the hot seat. Number one of which is the fact

820
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:45,040
Speaker 1: that he lawyered up almost immediately. Yeah. I would if

821
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:48,759
Speaker 1: my boyfriend, if he had a life policy, a life

822
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,399
Speaker 1: insurance policy of you know, half a million to seven

823
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: d K and my and then he showed up murdered somewhere,

824
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: I would immediately get a lawyer. Of course, how often

825
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:01,800
Speaker 1: have we seen k says where the husband just innostantly

826
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: walks in. It's like okay, I'll answer your questions and

827
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: there this suddenly their prime suspect only two then months later,

828
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,640
Speaker 1: after being drugged through the mud or jailed, get released

829
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: with a little sorry. Yeah, but we've also seen to

830
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,240
Speaker 1: go the other way where they walked in, they answered

831
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 1: all the questions and the police fingered him and sure

832
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: is hell, they turned out to be the one that

833
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,879
Speaker 1: was guilty and did it. So you can see why

834
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 1: the cops, but you can also see where he's coming from.

835
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: I mean, like, I get why he lawyered up, but

836
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: he also refused to let the cops talk to his

837
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 1: daughter and people were really upset about that because she

838
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: was a teenager. She's I think fourteen at the time.

839
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 1: But but I again, so the cops want to talk

840
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 1: to her, and he doesn't let them talk to her

841
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: for a good two months, and I can see that again,

842
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:58,840
Speaker 1: this is the father who was trying to defend his

843
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: daughter and insulin and protect her, and it's not till

844
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,240
Speaker 1: a certain amount of time that he feels like she's

845
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: ready or the other side of the camp is this

846
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: is a man who is responsible, and he's very carefully

847
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: crafting and curating his daughter's responses and statements to this

848
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: the situation there, there's never gonna be a winning reaction.

849
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about this a lot on this show,

850
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 1: that the you know, the spouse or family of people

851
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: who show up murdered or disappeared, there's not there's never

852
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 1: the right way to react. People are always going to

853
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: suspect you, and people are always going to think you're innocent,

854
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: no matter what the situation is. And that's just I mean, unfortunately,

855
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 1: that's the truth of the matter. So but yeah, as

856
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: far as say, you know, I don't know, she might

857
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 1: have it could be suspicious, I don't know. Yeah. Eventually

858
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: let her talk though, so so whatever she had to say,

859
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: she got to tell it to the police. True. Yeah.

860
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:59,400
Speaker 1: He also famously refused to take a polygraph, which I

861
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: think we've talked at nauseum about how unreliable polygraphs are.

862
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: But he also said, listen, I'm on a bunch of

863
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,239
Speaker 1: medication right now. He's he was taking stuff for the

864
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: stress and the anxiety and the depression, and he really,

865
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: I think probably correctly. So I didn't think that the

866
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: police could adequately calibrate the polygraph to accommodate for that

867
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: and others. I don't think you can. There are them

868
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:29,760
Speaker 1: that say that even without the stress and the drugs,

869
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: that you can't calibrate them because they're kind of voodoo. So,

870
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 1: speaking of voodoo, currently, I have a little voodoo doll

871
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 1: of Mike in my hand and I am randomly sticking

872
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: needles in it. And let me go ahead and stick

873
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: one more needle in it, which is to talk about

874
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: his wife's car. Her car was one was a car

875
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 1: that we're really used to this today. You put it

876
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: in drive and you start to move, and the door's lock,

877
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 1: the auto lock function. That's super common now, but that

878
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 1: was not super common in two thousand. But people say, well,

879
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 1: if his wife was in a car that had possibly

880
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: been moving, then the doors would have auto locked, and

881
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 1: so there's no way the bad guy could have got

882
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 1: into it. So he had to have given said bad

883
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 1: guy the key to either get into it when it

884
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: was parked and hide in the back seat and that

885
00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: old movie trope thing, or have the beeper and beeper

886
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,719
Speaker 1: the door open and opened the door and got it

887
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: while she was sitting there, parked somewhere and having locked

888
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: the doors. Well, you know, there's also the possibility that

889
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: she was actually jumped or approached or whatever outside the car,

890
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: and based on her nine one one call, I have

891
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: to say that that's exactly what happened, because if she

892
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: had been inside the car and come under enough of

893
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,799
Speaker 1: an attack or a threat or whatever to have a

894
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,319
Speaker 1: panic called at nine one one, all she had to

895
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: do was locked the doors and reached down unto her

896
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,319
Speaker 1: driver's seat where she had a gun. She and so

897
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: obviously she made that call. She must have made that

898
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: call from outside the car. Either that or she's just

899
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 1: a much fly tier person than than I had thought,

900
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,879
Speaker 1: and have to forget that she can lock her car,

901
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: and also she's got a pistol like store it into

902
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: her seat. Did you? Did you say I may have

903
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,200
Speaker 1: forgotten what seat she was in when she was found her.

904
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 1: I didn't because I don't know. The passenger door was open,

905
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: so it gives me the inclination that she was and

906
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,600
Speaker 1: she was found lying in the car, so I presume

907
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,359
Speaker 1: that she was lying across the front seats from from

908
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 1: passenger side, head pointing towards driver's door. But I also

909
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,439
Speaker 1: want to so this is you brought up something Joe

910
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: that I want to talk about, which is I don't

911
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: understand people who just stick a handgun under the seat

912
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: of the driver's seat like it's gonna vel cross itself

913
00:52:58,120 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: to the floor and never moved. Sure, I mean things

914
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,879
Speaker 1: bounce around in cars so much that the I've got

915
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: a gun under my seat thing is just I've never

916
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 1: understood that if you were, oh, well, I strapped it

917
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,480
Speaker 1: to something, you actually can like put it in the

918
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:16,879
Speaker 1: holster and tie the holster or you know, tape duck duck,

919
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: tape the holster or something to people do it under

920
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:24,799
Speaker 1: star and call them stuff like that, but insane. Yeah,

921
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:26,880
Speaker 1: but we we don't know that she had just tossed

922
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: a loose gun under the seat. We also don't know

923
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,120
Speaker 1: that she affixed it to anything. So that's so like

924
00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,080
Speaker 1: when I talked about, you know, maybe somebody snuck into

925
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: the car when she wasn't in it and was hiding there,

926
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 1: and maybe the gun had rattled backwards, so they're crouched.

927
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: It's October there, crouched down in the back of her

928
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 1: car after five at night, which is going to be dark,

929
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,439
Speaker 1: and like, hey, put the hand Hey what the hell

930
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: is Oh, this is a gun. This is way better

931
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:57,240
Speaker 1: than the knife I brought with me, Like these things.

932
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: I don't get. It does not make any sense. But well,

933
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: and I did you know what kind of gun it was?

934
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: I want to say it was a thirty eight, And

935
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 1: I have no good reason to say that. For some reason,

936
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: I think that too. Yeah, I mean, it's not the

937
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 1: biggest handgun in the world, But you don't know what

938
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,240
Speaker 1: make or anything. No, No, I just remember the caliber

939
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: being mentioned, and that's about it. Here's the other thing

940
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: about her, about this whole her key thing in the

941
00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: auto lock thing. There's a whole bunch of stuff in

942
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,359
Speaker 1: the news right now is we're recording about people who

943
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: are being tricked out of their cars by people either

944
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: laying in the road or putting dummies in the and

945
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,959
Speaker 1: tricking someone to get out of their car, at which

946
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: point they ambush them. So it's entirely possible that mcguinnis

947
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:53,720
Speaker 1: Mary mcguinnis Morris, drives her car somewhere down West Little

948
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: York and there's a dummy in the road, and she

949
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: gets out because she thinks it's a person heard, and

950
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: then she is attacked. And maybe that's where the nine

951
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: one one call comes, is that she's you know, I mean,

952
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's very plausible. It is, except

953
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:14,960
Speaker 1: except for that she had just not so long earlier,

954
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:16,919
Speaker 1: said that there was a person following her that gave

955
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 1: her the creeps. I mean, as a woman who is

956
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 1: not a registered nurse or you know, anything like that,

957
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 1: I don't. I have. My sense of self preservation comes

958
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,600
Speaker 1: before my sense of preserving other people's lives. But I,

959
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 1: especially if I had, you know, a couple of hours before,

960
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: been super creeped out by somebody, or you know, however

961
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 1: much time, I would not minute stop minutes. But she was.

962
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: She was also described um. Laura Gembl described it as

963
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: saying that she was a matter of fact, it wasn't

964
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, this

965
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,399
Speaker 1: guy's freaking me. I was like, this guy is given

966
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: a creeps. Even then though I would not, and I'm

967
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 1: a different woman than this woman, and then that's fair.

968
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:02,759
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't stopped for anyone, especially, I mean, like

969
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 1: normally I wouldn't stop for anyone, And then especially if

970
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 1: I had been observing somebody that was giving me the creeps,

971
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: I would especially not stop. So when you got back

972
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:14,960
Speaker 1: in your car to after the drug store and you

973
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:16,799
Speaker 1: saw the creepy guy, would you feel around in the

974
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: seat and find out where the gun was? Probably, but

975
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: I probably would have holstered it somewhere, So yeah, you

976
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: wouldn't have it on your seat anyway running around. So

977
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:27,720
Speaker 1: I believe that's all that we've got for this particular

978
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 1: theory about Mike. There's some more about Mike later, but

979
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,439
Speaker 1: we've also still got it. We've got to flesh out

980
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 1: the It was a hit, but Dwayne set it up. Okay,

981
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:44,399
Speaker 1: that's that's yeah, We're we're still on the hit man

982
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,879
Speaker 1: that was Mr Magoo and accidentally killed the wrong woman

983
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:50,800
Speaker 1: at first, correct, got the wrong Mary Morris. So Dwayne.

984
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,839
Speaker 1: Dwayne is also super popular all over the internet as

985
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 1: being the bad guy. And I will say that he

986
00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: would have known her habits because he worked with her.

987
00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: He knew where she lived because he had been to

988
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:06,799
Speaker 1: her house for a party once. But then again he

989
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 1: had she had been to his house once, So there's

990
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,839
Speaker 1: this whole thing of maybe the two men had met met,

991
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,479
Speaker 1: in other words, Mike and Dwayne. But supposedly the man,

992
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: like I said earlier, the man that she saw in

993
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: the Ecker drug was one of Drayne Dwayne's friends, which

994
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: would indicate that that guy was who Dwayne had hired

995
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:34,720
Speaker 1: to take her out. That all seems to kind of

996
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: make sense, except for this massive problem to me of timing.

997
00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:46,920
Speaker 1: Mary Henderson Morris was killed on a Thursday. Dwayne was

998
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: let go or locked out of the building on Friday.

999
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 1: Friday before Friday, Yeah, it's the the day after Henderson

1000
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:03,080
Speaker 1: is killed on the twelve m. Guinness gets him kicked

1001
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: out of the building on Friday. So the whole he

1002
00:58:08,040 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: hired the hit man thing, like you could see him

1003
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,120
Speaker 1: escalating to people, say, well, he got so angry about

1004
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: getting fired that he just in a rage hired this

1005
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 1: person who then he sent back in time. I guess.

1006
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:25,000
Speaker 1: So there there's an issue with the timeline there. The

1007
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 1: So the other thing that I look at with the

1008
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: whole desk calendar thing, the depth to her if he

1009
00:58:33,160 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 1: didn't like her so much, it seems weird. I think

1010
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:39,520
Speaker 1: we talked about this before to write that down and

1011
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: to you know, to make that kind of statement on

1012
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: a calendar, But we also don't know if it's his calendar,

1013
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,160
Speaker 1: and we also don't know if it's even in relation

1014
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: to her, because I don't even know that it was

1015
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: written by him. Well, the thing that was his calendar

1016
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:59,680
Speaker 1: in his desk. What I think about is that they

1017
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: were in the health industry, and there is such a

1018
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 1: thing as assistant suicide, and assisted suicide is not legal

1019
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: in the state of Texas. However, the withholding of life

1020
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:20,160
Speaker 1: sustaining procedures is acceptable if it's at the patient's request.

1021
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,240
Speaker 1: And I pulled up from that time the way that

1022
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:25,919
Speaker 1: it's word because it's a little strange, but I see

1023
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: where the loophole is is that it says the effective

1024
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: withholding of life staining procedures colon withdrawal or withholding of

1025
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:41,640
Speaker 1: life sustaining procedures does not constitute offense of aiding suicide.

1026
00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 1: So it could very well have been that somebody's family

1027
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: came in and said, listen, grandma has been on a

1028
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 1: ventilator for six months and has not woke up. It's

1029
00:59:52,160 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 1: time to turn off grandma's ventilator. And it could have

1030
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: been as simple as that. Well maybe, except he was

1031
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 1: working at Assume just it's sort of an employee health

1032
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,680
Speaker 1: opposite Union Carbide, right, So I mean, that's not the

1033
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: kind of place where you got people on like you know, ventolity,

1034
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 1: but they're they're doing health services there. I don't know

1035
01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: exactly what happened at that facility. I'd be very honest

1036
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,960
Speaker 1: with you, Joe. I also don't know if Dwayne only

1037
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 1: worked in that facility or as part of his job

1038
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,360
Speaker 1: with Union Carbide was to go to other facilities. I mean,

1039
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:27,000
Speaker 1: there's a whole slew of things that death to Her

1040
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: could have meant. What about a concert that's a weird

1041
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: band name, but okay, is it really though? I mean

1042
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 1: death metal? No, actually it's not. Or a movie he meant,

1043
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, death becomes her because he was going to

1044
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:46,320
Speaker 1: go see that somebody. I mean, like wrong, it's not

1045
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:48,880
Speaker 1: that wrong, death becomes her, death to her, I mean,

1046
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,919
Speaker 1: you know, it's an unfortunate mistake given the circumstances, But

1047
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,439
Speaker 1: it's not like that weird of a trust. I mean,

1048
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, granted, it seems like he would be saying

1049
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,240
Speaker 1: all these things if any of these were the thing.

1050
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 1: And the stuff is the fact is that McGinnis seems

1051
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 1: to be the one. Okay, I was about to say

1052
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,439
Speaker 1: that McGinnis seems to have been the one that made

1053
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: all the statements about Dwayne, but then I also realized

1054
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 1: the fallacy in that statement, which is she is the

1055
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: one that died, and therefore all of her friends and

1056
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,439
Speaker 1: family are recounting the things that she had said. If

1057
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: we flipped the tables and she had lived and Dwayne

1058
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 1: had been hunted down and shot in a supposed suicide position,

1059
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: we probably would have heard flip side things from his

1060
01:01:37,160 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: friends and real So I'm going to take that back.

1061
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:47,200
Speaker 1: I mean, but the timeline with Dwayne is my my biggest,

1062
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 1: biggest difficulty because it just doesn't It doesn't work unless

1063
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:56,920
Speaker 1: they're you know, not connected. Which part yeah, which is

1064
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: the very next theory, like I looked ahead in the

1065
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: script or so well, they could be connected in in

1066
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,280
Speaker 1: other ways, so loud, Supposing Dwyne is a very clever guy,

1067
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: you hit a problem with the timeline. But supposing uh,

1068
01:02:08,920 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: Dwayne after this outrageous thing where you know, basically it

1069
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:15,560
Speaker 1: looked to me like somebody just was trying to get

1070
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 1: him fired from his job. He's angry, goes home, sitting

1071
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 1: around drinking a beer, cooling off, and looks in the

1072
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: papers and see as well, Mary Morris died. Hey cool,

1073
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:27,760
Speaker 1: and then he read the article to realizes it's not

1074
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 1: the same Mary Morris. But then he thinks about it

1075
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:32,959
Speaker 1: and thinks, wait a second, if I were to knock

1076
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:36,240
Speaker 1: off my Mary Morris, it would look you know, let's say, okay,

1077
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: let's pick up the phone, let's call the newspapers say

1078
01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:41,479
Speaker 1: they got the wrong Mary Morris. Now I got knock

1079
01:02:41,560 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 1: her off, and it'll look like a hit gone wrong.

1080
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: So you have made part one A of the next theory.

1081
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 1: I will now talk about Part one B, which is

1082
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 1: very similar and this one. You So you said they're unconnected,

1083
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 1: but it's Dwayne. I had that it's unconnected, but it's

1084
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:09,360
Speaker 1: Mike for very similar reasons. Sees that she's been killed,

1085
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: Henderson has been killed, and oh, this would be really convenient,

1086
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:19,919
Speaker 1: and then has his wife knocked off, at which point

1087
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: he can be well, I don't think he can knock

1088
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: her off himself because he's at the movie theater with

1089
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: his daughter, so the timeline doesn't I think is too

1090
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 1: too tight for that. But he could then begin this

1091
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:39,120
Speaker 1: this campaign of disinformation and you know, mud slinging at

1092
01:03:39,280 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 1: Dwayne for what was maybe not such a big deal

1093
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:47,200
Speaker 1: at the office to his wife, but in the retellings

1094
01:03:47,360 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 1: it becomes, as we've seen with retellings, bigger and bigger

1095
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:56,960
Speaker 1: and bigger to grander scales, so both it could be unconnected,

1096
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: and one or the other of them could have taken

1097
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:05,360
Speaker 1: advance inntage of the just random happenstance of a Mary

1098
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,919
Speaker 1: Morris having been killed, by the way, be a little

1099
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: different than the Dwayne theory, because he if he hired

1100
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: a hit man, it must it would have taken a

1101
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 1: lot longer than just a few days to go find somebody,

1102
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 1: you know, and had him knock his wife off. If

1103
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 1: if he had not been planning to have his wife

1104
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:26,439
Speaker 1: killed prior to that, you're right, But if he had

1105
01:04:26,480 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 1: been thinking, I want to get her killed, or he

1106
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:32,800
Speaker 1: was drinking with a buddy on Saturday afternoon and the

1107
01:04:32,880 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: dude was like, do you give me five grand I'll

1108
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 1: kill her. I'll just totally kill her. Uh, what's to

1109
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,640
Speaker 1: say Mike didn't called Dwayne up. It's also possible. This

1110
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: is where these theories get so interwoven, because, like we said,

1111
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: they had met, they knew they at least in passing,

1112
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,800
Speaker 1: and knew each other, and for differing reasons, they could

1113
01:04:55,880 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: have wanted Mary McGinnis Morris dead. I the other thing,

1114
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go ahead and throw out here, just

1115
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:04,440
Speaker 1: like a throw mama from the train. Well, it's just

1116
01:05:04,520 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 1: been swirling around in my head. Is that? So we

1117
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 1: don't know who Mary was having the affair with or

1118
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 1: was not apparent does not I've never seen the name mentioned, Okay,

1119
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: and so we're pretty sure though it wasn't Dwayne, and

1120
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,959
Speaker 1: that this was all show to keep there from being

1121
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 1: some kind of problems with hr as far as I know,

1122
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:31,200
Speaker 1: or I had the same thought of could it have

1123
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:35,600
Speaker 1: been Dwayne and maybe that's what soured things between them,

1124
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:37,640
Speaker 1: But as far as I know, it was not doing.

1125
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 1: He has not said that. He apparently was in a

1126
01:05:41,440 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 1: relationship the whole time, So if it was Dwayne, he

1127
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,000
Speaker 1: had a very good reason to not admit it. Yeah,

1128
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 1: presumably the police know about this, of course, as usual,

1129
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:58,600
Speaker 1: they're being pigs about the whole thing. Yeah, okay, Well

1130
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,480
Speaker 1: that that's pretty at the end of that theory. Yeah,

1131
01:06:01,640 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: we we have. So let's let's go on to what

1132
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 1: I have as the final theory, which is that they

1133
01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:13,920
Speaker 1: were completely and totally unrelated, entirely possible. And when you

1134
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 1: when I stopped and I think about them, and you

1135
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,680
Speaker 1: start to look at the scenes, I don't I mean,

1136
01:06:20,680 --> 01:06:22,520
Speaker 1: people always say that, well it was the hit man,

1137
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: and this and this, but but but they're not all

1138
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: that related to me. Mary Henderson. We don't know exactly

1139
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:33,280
Speaker 1: how she was killed, but she was killed, and a

1140
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:36,240
Speaker 1: couple of things were stolen. We know we're stolen. And

1141
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 1: then she and her car were incinerated. Mcguinnis Morris, Mary

1142
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:47,600
Speaker 1: McGinnis Morris was beaten, gagged and shot and left to

1143
01:06:47,680 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 1: be discovered and not burned, but also in her car.

1144
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: But it at at the vehicle is the only real similarity.

1145
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 1: And in a city that at that time had a

1146
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: population of over two million people, it's not all that

1147
01:07:07,360 --> 01:07:11,200
Speaker 1: surprising that a rather common name of Mary Morris you

1148
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 1: could have in a weekend two people with the same

1149
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: name being killed. It's not astronomical, not at all. We

1150
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:25,120
Speaker 1: haven't talked about Mary Henderson Morris too much in in

1151
01:07:25,160 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: this last half hour. I'm going to guess, as it's

1152
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,920
Speaker 1: been so far, let's talk about her for a minute,

1153
01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: and let's talk about the reasons that her body may

1154
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: have been treated the way it was. It is entirely

1155
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:45,400
Speaker 1: possible that something happened at the time that whoever did

1156
01:07:45,440 --> 01:07:48,320
Speaker 1: it wanted to cover up. If you think about two

1157
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 1: thousand c S. I had been on for about a year.

1158
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:56,280
Speaker 1: The whole country was just obsessed with blood spatter analysis,

1159
01:07:56,360 --> 01:08:00,240
Speaker 1: like everybody's figuring out how this stuff works. Okay, So

1160
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:08,439
Speaker 1: what would be a motive to abduct a woman sadly rape? Okay?

1161
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:13,000
Speaker 1: So what is an easy way to to hide the

1162
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:17,760
Speaker 1: evidence of a sexual encounter that was not mutual with

1163
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:22,679
Speaker 1: a body? You burned you and you burned the whole

1164
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,479
Speaker 1: thing and there is not a bit of DNA evidence

1165
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: left over, so to me, but what time? Sorry, what

1166
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 1: time was this? It was like in early in the morning.

1167
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: She left her house at six, The fiers reported at ten,

1168
01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:40,360
Speaker 1: So there's time in between abducted and and taken somewhere

1169
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:44,799
Speaker 1: and then dumped and burned. This is this is probably

1170
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 1: not a thing you should say, but it just seems

1171
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: really early in the morning for a time like that.

1172
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but I understand what For some reason that

1173
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:58,599
Speaker 1: just some reason, it seems like the rapists would all

1174
01:08:58,640 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: be from nine pm off, But apparently that's not the case.

1175
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 1: Theyard shifts maybe maybe, or maybe he's just a dude

1176
01:09:07,640 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: and he woke up. I was like, I'm going to

1177
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 1: do some rape in today. I don't know, I mean,

1178
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: that's hideous, but that's what people do, so okay. So

1179
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:19,559
Speaker 1: that to me is the reason why her crime scene

1180
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:23,719
Speaker 1: would have been treated the way that it was. And

1181
01:09:24,280 --> 01:09:28,320
Speaker 1: as for why her wedding ring and purse were taken

1182
01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: but her other jewelry was left behind, well, there may

1183
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 1: have not been an immediate presumed value to what she

1184
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 1: was hearing. Maybe she was wearing ceramic earrings and a

1185
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:43,320
Speaker 1: necklace that didn't have any obvious value. Why take it

1186
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 1: and then try and figure that out. That's a lot

1187
01:09:46,280 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 1: of work. Screw it. That's a gold and diamond. And

1188
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 1: I know you have cash in your your purse because

1189
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,080
Speaker 1: she was known to use cash and not credit cards,

1190
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,479
Speaker 1: so she would have had cash in her wallet, which

1191
01:09:57,520 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 1: would encourage somebody to just take the whole day a purse.

1192
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 1: So it makes sense. Whereas mcguinnis Morris, all of her

1193
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 1: belongings were there, except possibly for her cell phone. Yeah,

1194
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,320
Speaker 1: except possibly for her cell phone. But all of her

1195
01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:17,640
Speaker 1: stuff is there. So like, these are the mos to me,

1196
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:22,160
Speaker 1: the motives are the treatments are very very different. For

1197
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:25,800
Speaker 1: one hit man, I agree, I agree, But the other

1198
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,600
Speaker 1: reason that you might try to cleanse a case or

1199
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:31,559
Speaker 1: a crime scene like that is, if you have accidentally

1200
01:10:31,600 --> 01:10:34,240
Speaker 1: killed the wrong person and you are trying to cover

1201
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 1: up that crime as much as possible. There is that

1202
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 1: right you you know, go through her wallet and go

1203
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 1: oh oops, um, this isn't the right person at all,

1204
01:10:44,400 --> 01:10:47,240
Speaker 1: so you take everything and you burn it. I mean,

1205
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a great I doubt that a

1206
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 1: husband would say, my wife's name is Mary McGinnis Morris,

1207
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: Please kill Mary McGinnis Morris, and make sure you get

1208
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:01,040
Speaker 1: Mary McGinnis Morris. And here's this photo of us. Look quick, quick, okay,

1209
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:03,559
Speaker 1: go get her. You know, the hitman, it's gonna say

1210
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:09,480
Speaker 1: it's the I D says Mary H. Morris or Mary M. Morris.

1211
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:12,840
Speaker 1: Well more than that, the hitman's got to know. You

1212
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: can't just like go driving around town until he runs

1213
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:18,840
Speaker 1: across her. He's got to know, like where she lives

1214
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 1: or where she works are both preferably so it's hard

1215
01:11:21,760 --> 01:11:24,639
Speaker 1: to mix the two up. And they crossed the their

1216
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 1: their roots of you know, versus workplaces versus home spaces.

1217
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:34,479
Speaker 1: There was some intersection between the two. So it is

1218
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: possible that our Mr Magoo hitman inadvertently spotted the wrong

1219
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: Mary and said, oh, well, this Mary is supposed to

1220
01:11:43,320 --> 01:11:45,479
Speaker 1: be in this area, so that must be her. But no,

1221
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:48,360
Speaker 1: I agree with you, it's I think it's unlikely. Yea,

1222
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:51,360
Speaker 1: extremely Unlichael. And again you're going to You're going to

1223
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,439
Speaker 1: Union Karabid to look from Mary works as a medical

1224
01:11:57,040 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 1: That's right, I got I gotta mixed up there. You're

1225
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,120
Speaker 1: not going to direct us the other Mary and say, oh,

1226
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:02,840
Speaker 1: there goes the other Mary Morris. You have no idea

1227
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:05,000
Speaker 1: that her name is Mary Morris because nobody has told

1228
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:07,880
Speaker 1: you anything about her. No, no, man, don't tend to

1229
01:12:08,040 --> 01:12:10,040
Speaker 1: stand out to the offense. Excuse me, what's your name?

1230
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 1: What's your name? I got a contract? What's your name?

1231
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:16,080
Speaker 1: What's your name? Well, now, the the other way they

1232
01:12:16,080 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 1: could be related is imagined that the killer was actually

1233
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,720
Speaker 1: Mary one's husband, J. J. Morris. That would explain why

1234
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:27,280
Speaker 1: the body was burned for the first one, because first

1235
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: of all, I mean, you've knocked off your wife, and

1236
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:33,640
Speaker 1: obviously you're the husband. You're gonna be the first suspect,

1237
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,040
Speaker 1: so you know, what do you do? You can knock

1238
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 1: off another Mary Morris shortly thereafter. Therefore, it's the immediately

1239
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 1: people are gonna be thinking hit, got hit gone wrong,

1240
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,880
Speaker 1: and obviously the attention is going to shift to Mike

1241
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:51,599
Speaker 1: and off of you regardless of Okay, so now you

1242
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 1: you're casting shade on j Morris. Okay, but the same

1243
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,760
Speaker 1: it's a possibility, and I'm not going to disagree with that.

1244
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:04,080
Speaker 1: But but regardless, I would imagine that this is just

1245
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 1: in my my guesses about this whole thing. As I've

1246
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:10,640
Speaker 1: already said, I would think that if you were going

1247
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,559
Speaker 1: to off somebody and you were going to dispose of

1248
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:16,439
Speaker 1: their body, you would do it one way, and the

1249
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:19,440
Speaker 1: second time you had to do it, you would probably

1250
01:13:19,720 --> 01:13:23,760
Speaker 1: most likely follow the same pattern. People are not that

1251
01:13:23,800 --> 01:13:26,720
Speaker 1: creating unless you got interrupted, Yeah, there's that. Well, you

1252
01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 1: don't really need to, I mean, I mean you think

1253
01:13:28,320 --> 01:13:30,000
Speaker 1: about why he might have burned the body in the

1254
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 1: first case, besides hiding evidence. He doesn't because he doesn't

1255
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:37,960
Speaker 1: need a hide DNA of it. It's assuming that it

1256
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:42,240
Speaker 1: was his wife. But imagine the body hadn't been burned,

1257
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 1: then what would he have had to do. He would

1258
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:45,439
Speaker 1: have had to go down to the moregan identify the

1259
01:13:45,439 --> 01:13:48,840
Speaker 1: body correct and most people, at least if you're a

1260
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:52,599
Speaker 1: smart murderer, you're going to know your limitations, and you're

1261
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:54,880
Speaker 1: gonna know, you're gonna know whether you actually have any

1262
01:13:54,920 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 1: acting ability or not. Now, if you murdered your wife

1263
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:01,400
Speaker 1: and you've got an idea the body, um, you know

1264
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:03,559
Speaker 1: you might this could be one area where you could

1265
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:08,440
Speaker 1: really get tripped up. Okay, So I see where you're going, Joe, Yeah,

1266
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: I don't. I've never in the reading, And granted, the

1267
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:16,560
Speaker 1: reading about Mary Henderson Morris is a little less robust

1268
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 1: than Mary McGinnis Morris. But most stuff in there does

1269
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 1: not indicate that there was any troubles in the marriage

1270
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 1: or any reasons for him to have done that. But

1271
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: let's not forget that. Yeah, no, there wasn't. But let's

1272
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:35,080
Speaker 1: not forget people do things. Well, let's not forget that. Immediately,

1273
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 1: the whole hip thing gone wrong theory immediately popped up

1274
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 1: into everybody. That's the internet part second, d yes, the

1275
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:46,320
Speaker 1: Internet's brain, the police's brains, everybody. And so that really

1276
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 1: took the heat off of JA big time. And so

1277
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 1: there might have been some stuff going on. Who the

1278
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 1: hell knows, I mean, I mean, you don't know what's

1279
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 1: going on. I mean, I've known people who seemed very

1280
01:14:55,280 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: very happily married and well they're divorced. Now, I mean

1281
01:14:58,080 --> 01:15:00,680
Speaker 1: that stuff happens. And so again I'm not accusing j

1282
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: if anything, but this is a much neglected theory. Yeah,

1283
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:05,600
Speaker 1: well it does explain a few things, because again, the

1284
01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:07,880
Speaker 1: whole hit man theory, when you think about it, really

1285
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,840
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. So the the other thing about

1286
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:13,920
Speaker 1: the hit man theory that doesn't work is that there

1287
01:15:14,040 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 1: does appear to be an angle of theft in Mary

1288
01:15:17,560 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 1: Henderson Morris's death because six months after her death, Jay

1289
01:15:23,240 --> 01:15:26,880
Speaker 1: started getting a bill from her calling card. Because this

1290
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:28,679
Speaker 1: is back in the days when you had a calling

1291
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 1: card to make long distance calls to the tune of

1292
01:15:32,120 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 1: two thousand dollars. The cops track it down. Some teenage

1293
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: girl has that card. She says, I found this purse

1294
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 1: in this parking lot in Galveston. She she apparently then

1295
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 1: gave the purse to a friend. The police go to

1296
01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 1: that friend who has the purse. It does not obviously

1297
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,880
Speaker 1: have any of Mary's stuff in it. You know, this

1298
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:58,040
Speaker 1: person has just chucked all that stuff. But they then

1299
01:15:58,160 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 1: here's the weird part is they then turn around and

1300
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:09,000
Speaker 1: they go to Mary Henderson Morris's family and they say, hey,

1301
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:12,519
Speaker 1: is this her purse, and they all say, no, she did.

1302
01:16:12,800 --> 01:16:17,080
Speaker 1: She didn't know that purse either a it and nothing

1303
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:20,160
Speaker 1: has ever been put out there that if anybody ever

1304
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:24,200
Speaker 1: asked Mary mcguinnis Morris's family if it was her purse

1305
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 1: or be it could be some weirdo robbery killer guy

1306
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 1: who he took her her stuff, you know, her wallet

1307
01:16:35,360 --> 01:16:38,880
Speaker 1: or cards or whatever, and tossed it into the next

1308
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: purse or the prior purse that he had stolen and

1309
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 1: eventually just did a big dump and dumped it into

1310
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:49,559
Speaker 1: a parking lot and left. Because Galveston is less than

1311
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:54,559
Speaker 1: it's like twenty miles away. It's it's super close. Actually,

1312
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:56,400
Speaker 1: I don't think it's that far away. But yeah, it's

1313
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,240
Speaker 1: not inconceivable that somebody could have ridden around her purse,

1314
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:02,400
Speaker 1: taken out any items of possible value to him and

1315
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,559
Speaker 1: he didn't see any particular value and something like say

1316
01:17:04,560 --> 01:17:07,360
Speaker 1: a calling card, so he just left it. Somebody else

1317
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:10,080
Speaker 1: came along and actually took that. But it's it's the

1318
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:14,400
Speaker 1: differences in purses, that's that's the thing where Henderson's Henderson

1319
01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: to start out, it didn't have to stay in the

1320
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:21,559
Speaker 1: same purse to another too. That's what I'm saying, so

1321
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:25,880
Speaker 1: it's but it's it's a weird thing where suddenly six

1322
01:17:25,920 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 1: months later it pops up. Jay also started getting weirdo

1323
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,559
Speaker 1: phone calls asking for his wife a couple of months

1324
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:35,599
Speaker 1: after she died, though, the cops traced those to an

1325
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:38,880
Speaker 1: apartment complex, and as soon as he stopped saying she's

1326
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 1: not here and started saying, oh, yeah, you can find

1327
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:46,320
Speaker 1: her at and gave the sheriff's department's phone number, the

1328
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:51,520
Speaker 1: guy stopped calling. So, I mean like somebody tortured him

1329
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:55,559
Speaker 1: to a degree. I feel like Jay got jerked around.

1330
01:17:56,240 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 1: And I don't know whether that's in related that that's

1331
01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:01,599
Speaker 1: directly connected to his wife it's death or not. Because

1332
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:04,559
Speaker 1: there are sickos out there who just think that it's

1333
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 1: fun to do that. Yeah, I don't know, there sure are.

1334
01:18:08,160 --> 01:18:10,760
Speaker 1: It could have been somebody like me who just concluded

1335
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 1: that he was a real murderer and torture him. Yeah,

1336
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 1: it could be to try and shake it out of it. Yeah,

1337
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:19,360
Speaker 1: don't you need to stop doing that? Yeah, and again,

1338
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 1: just just just for the sake of whatever, you know,

1339
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:25,000
Speaker 1: that's just a theory I had. No, I'm not accusing you,

1340
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,839
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think there's all kinds of random

1341
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:30,840
Speaker 1: possibilities in this one. That's all other theories that we

1342
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:34,519
Speaker 1: have for this episode or for this story. I should say,

1343
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 1: I guess we should give everybody the fun interesting. They've

1344
01:18:39,200 --> 01:18:42,960
Speaker 1: been waiting this entire time for details, which is the

1345
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:45,360
Speaker 1: stuff about us, because I know you want to know

1346
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 1: about us, so to talk to us, Actually we probably

1347
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 1: want to know more about me, so to talk to you, Joe,

1348
01:18:53,920 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 1: you can send an email to Joe at Thinking Sideways

1349
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:00,960
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. You have to stop talking

1350
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:03,639
Speaker 1: like that, I know. So that's our email address where

1351
01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:07,760
Speaker 1: you can send questions, comments, concerns, just about anything we

1352
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:11,880
Speaker 1: will respond to. We have all of our stuff available

1353
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: on our website, so that is the episodes as well

1354
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,520
Speaker 1: as some of our research for this and all episodes.

1355
01:19:18,920 --> 01:19:23,280
Speaker 1: That website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can

1356
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:27,000
Speaker 1: find us on iTunes where you can subscribe and rate.

1357
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:30,439
Speaker 1: You can find us on most of the streaming sources,

1358
01:19:30,479 --> 01:19:34,559
Speaker 1: whether that be Stitcher or Google or wherever, and if

1359
01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:37,840
Speaker 1: those sites allow you to rate and review, please do.

1360
01:19:38,720 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 1: We're on social media, so we are on Twitter where

1361
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:46,760
Speaker 1: we're Thinking Sideways. We are also on Reddit. We have

1362
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:51,000
Speaker 1: a thread or forum. But why can I s I Reddit?

1363
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 1: Thank you? Why can I never remember what Reddit does?

1364
01:19:54,120 --> 01:19:56,920
Speaker 1: It is? It turns out I grew a beard and

1365
01:19:56,960 --> 01:19:58,720
Speaker 1: I realized how much white there was in it, and

1366
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,160
Speaker 1: my wife said, oh, you look like Santa Claus and

1367
01:20:01,200 --> 01:20:05,840
Speaker 1: I said, oh, damn, the Santa territory. Yet, I know,

1368
01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:07,640
Speaker 1: I was really disturbed by what I was, like, what

1369
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:11,040
Speaker 1: did you say? I'm getting that fat crap. We are

1370
01:20:11,080 --> 01:20:14,920
Speaker 1: also on social media. We are on Facebook, so we

1371
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:18,320
Speaker 1: have the Facebook page and the Facebook group, so like

1372
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:21,840
Speaker 1: the page, joined the group. Lots of good conversations going

1373
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:26,560
Speaker 1: on in there. We have on the website links to merchandise,

1374
01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:30,800
Speaker 1: so we have shirts, we have mugs, we have stickers.

1375
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:32,720
Speaker 1: All that stuff is available. You can find it on

1376
01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: the right hand panel through both Zazzle and or Red Bubble,

1377
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,880
Speaker 1: depending on what you're buying. It's all there, and that's

1378
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 1: really all the fun details unless you want to talk

1379
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,880
Speaker 1: to Joe, at which which point you will send an

1380
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 1: email directly to Joe at Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail

1381
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:53,639
Speaker 1: dot com for Joe. Please put in the subject line

1382
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:56,840
Speaker 1: for Joe and expect to not get a response for

1383
01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 1: two weeks. All right, Well, everybody, we're going to go

1384
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:12,559
Speaker 1: ahead and wrap this one up and call it, call

1385
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 1: it a night, and we will talk to you next week,

1386
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:17,680
Speaker 1: next week, next time. I'm going to get it right

1387
01:21:17,680 --> 01:21:22,160
Speaker 1: the first time. Oh my god bye. It's like he

1388
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:25,920
Speaker 1: had a pair of him. You don't always do. Practice

1389
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 1: makes perfect