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Speaker 1: dot org slash iHeart before we begin Please note this

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Speaker 1: series includes talk of suicide and sexual violence. Please take

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Speaker 1: care while listening. Do you remember this letter? I think

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Speaker 1: I do. M H. When do you want me to start?

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Speaker 1: I'm writing to you to request the following information in

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Speaker 1: regards to the untimely, violent, and un and witnessed death

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Speaker 1: of my daughter, Santa An Beale. There's not a day

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Speaker 1: that goes by that I don't think of her. This

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Speaker 1: marks forty one years without her, with no answers. A

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Speaker 1: few years ago, Joanne Biale sent this letter to the

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Speaker 1: Maryland State Police. It was later given to me by

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Speaker 1: her distant cousin, who I've since gotten to know very well.

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Speaker 1: I'm a reporter who covers violence against women, and I

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Speaker 1: get a lot of tips about stories emails from people

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Speaker 1: who were desperate for a journalist to dig into what

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Speaker 1: they believed to be the greatest injustice of their lives.

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Speaker 1: When this letter came into my possession, I knew there

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Speaker 1: was something important about it. It's kind of weird in retrospect,

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Speaker 1: but I immediately began storing it next to my passport

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Speaker 1: alongside all my most important documents. This letter is the

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Speaker 1: reason why I found myself sitting beside Joanne in her

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Speaker 1: living room a year into the pandemic, talking about Sandy Well.

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Speaker 1: And I haven't gone over any of this because I

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Speaker 1: figured was starting new here. So we'll just go ahead

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Speaker 1: and throw out the questions and I'll give you what

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Speaker 1: I can for the answers. Joanne is eighty two and

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Speaker 1: lives in rural Maine now near the coast, in a

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Speaker 1: tidy house surrounded by wild blueberry fields. She's short and sturdy,

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Speaker 1: with thick white hair cropped around her ears, and shiny blue,

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Speaker 1: almost mischievous eyes. I come from a long line of short,

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Speaker 1: sturdy women, and I was immediately at ease talking to her.

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Speaker 1: These days, Joanne goes to church, shops for clothes, visits

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Speaker 1: with her family. Maine is where she grew up, the

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Speaker 1: place her family is from, but back in the seventies

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Speaker 1: she lived seat Pleasant, Maryland in Prince George's County with

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Speaker 1: her husband, Ronald, and their four kids, Sandy, Michael, Stephen,

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Speaker 1: and Ronnie. I kept Ronnie home from school that day

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Speaker 1: because he had a sore throat, and he didn't you know.

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Speaker 1: And that's when the detective came to the door and

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Speaker 1: told me what happened. He said, I've got some news

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Speaker 1: that I don't think the little fellow should know. He said,

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Speaker 1: could you send him to your neighbors, And so he

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Speaker 1: proceeded to tell me where they found her in this poleyard.

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Speaker 1: On the morning of February eleventh, nineteen seventy seven, Frank

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Speaker 1: Middleton arrived at a utility poleyard about twenty minutes away

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Speaker 1: from Joanne's home. To give you some context, poleyards are

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Speaker 1: where energy companies store those tall wooden poles that are

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Speaker 1: used to support power lines. This yard was in a

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Speaker 1: somewhat secluded spot off the highway and surrounded by woods,

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Speaker 1: which is why it was odd that there was a

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Speaker 1: car parked in the lot when Frank arrived around nine am.

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Speaker 1: And this fella had gone to work and found heer,

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Speaker 1: and he thought she was asleep until he walked up

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Speaker 1: to the car and noticed that her glasses were up here,

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Speaker 1: and she was dis arrayed, and he knew that she

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Speaker 1: was gone. Sandy's car, a nineteen seventy one blue Ford Pinto,

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Speaker 1: appeared to be stuck in the mud. Cardboard had been

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Speaker 1: shoved under all four tires, and there were tire tracks

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Speaker 1: all around her car, like she had been trying to

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Speaker 1: drive away. Sandy was in the driver's seat with her

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Speaker 1: keys still in the ignition. She had been shot in

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Speaker 1: the right side of her abdomen, with an exit wound

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Speaker 1: on the left side of her back. She was eighteen

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Speaker 1: years old, just a month shy of her nineteenth birthday.

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Speaker 1: You know, I asked that detective. I said, why wasn't

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Speaker 1: Ronald and I called to identify her? He said, but

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Speaker 1: there was three policemen there that knew who she was.

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Speaker 1: And I said, well, isn't that lovely? I'd like to

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Speaker 1: know who the three cops were at the scene, because

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Speaker 1: when that detective told me that, I was furious that

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Speaker 1: we were not called immediately to claim her in any way,

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Speaker 1: shape or fall. We didn't get a chance to see

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Speaker 1: her until she was in the funeral Palla. I've never

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Speaker 1: gotten over that, and I was really rip shit about that.

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Speaker 1: Just a few hours after Sandy's body was discovered, Joanne

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Speaker 1: knock at the door. A detective told her that Sandy

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Speaker 1: was dead and that it appeared she had taken her

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Speaker 1: own life. In the short time between finding Sandy's body

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Speaker 1: and notifying her family, the cops had already developed a

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Speaker 1: working theory Sandy had died by suicide. I didn't take

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Speaker 1: any of that crap because I could tell that they

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Speaker 1: were hiding something. I said, you know something, you can

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Speaker 1: put any damn thing you want. Now, that doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: it happened that way. And I said, you'll never make

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Speaker 1: me and my family and my friends believe that. So

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Speaker 1: I said, get the hell out of my house. And

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Speaker 1: I wasn't very nice Tom, because I think they were

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Speaker 1: stunk in us all the way around. From iHeartRadio. I'm

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Speaker 1: Melissa Jelson, and this is what happened to Sandy Beale

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Speaker 1: An iHeart original podcast, Chapter one, The Girl in the Poleyard.

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Speaker 1: This is Michael. Yes, Hi Michael. This is Stephen. Hi, Stephen,

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Speaker 1: how you going to hunt? Hi? Hi? Yes. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to meet with the Bial family as a whole to

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Speaker 1: learn more about Sandy. When we first sat down, I

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Speaker 1: didn't really know anything about Sandy's case except for what

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Speaker 1: was in Joanne's letter. But I soon learned that the

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Speaker 1: entire Bial family shared Joanne's suspicions. None of them believed

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Speaker 1: Sandy had died by suicide, not back then and not now.

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Speaker 1: I met them at Michael's house in the summer of

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one to give you a quick sketch of

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Speaker 1: the family tree. Sandy was born first, then a year

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Speaker 1: later Michael, then Stephen. A year and a half after that,

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Speaker 1: Bang bang bang, as Joanne described it, six years later,

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Speaker 1: baby Ronnie was born. Joanne later asked her husband ron

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Speaker 1: to get a vasectomy. All three of Sandy's brothers live

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Speaker 1: in Maine, within the thirty minute drive of Joanne. Still,

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Speaker 1: it's rare for them to get together to talk about Sandy.

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Speaker 1: What do we hope to gain from all of this?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think that is a question everyone might have.

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear your own answers for it. Well, personally,

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Speaker 1: I have no expectations. These are people that's waiting on

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Speaker 1: the seams of time to run out on us. I

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Speaker 1: don't expect anybody it's going to serve it a day

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Speaker 1: in jail, not even five minutes. That Sandy's youngest brother, Ronnie,

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Speaker 1: he was only nine when Sandy died, with almost a

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Speaker 1: decade between them and age. They had a special relationship.

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Speaker 1: Sandy doated on Ronnie, buying him presents and indulging him

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Speaker 1: in games. In turn, he idolized her. Now Ronnie is

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Speaker 1: in his early fifties, and he told me his recollections

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Speaker 1: of her were beginning to fade. She was wickedsmall. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, she can do anything she wanted to, mars

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Speaker 1: nose got always got good grades, dude, didn't you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's Stephen, Sandy's middle brother. He's sixty and runs a

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Speaker 1: printing press for the local newspaper. In his spare time,

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Speaker 1: he plays the drums, though he's had a hard time

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Speaker 1: finding bandmates who want to play heavy metal. When he

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Speaker 1: thinks back to his time with Sandy, he remembers himself

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Speaker 1: as a typical, annoying younger brother, always butting heads with her.

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Speaker 1: It's something that pains him now that wasted time spent fighting. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: always look at her as you know, the big sister

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Speaker 1: is you know, was, which is kind of weird. I

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Speaker 1: mean because Sandy he was she was no. Five fives,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah, but the mental image is larger

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Speaker 1: than life. Yes, Sandy seemed to get along, okay, I

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Speaker 1: mean she for whatever reason, you know she I don't

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Speaker 1: recall of her getting picked on or whatever during that

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Speaker 1: time frame. But then again, she'd regularly kick my ass anyway,

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Speaker 1: So lots of people I spoke to about Sandy mentioned

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Speaker 1: this element of her personality. She was plucky, tough, and

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Speaker 1: Sandy's toughness was an asset in her community. Prince George's County,

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Speaker 1: where the Beals lived, is located just outside of Washington,

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Speaker 1: d C. If you're in downtown d C, all you

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Speaker 1: have to do is drive east along Pennsylvania Avenue and

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Speaker 1: you'll eventually cross into PG County. Keep driving for about

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes and you'll find yourself at the Bell's former

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Speaker 1: house in seat Pleasant. A white, lower middle class family,

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Speaker 1: the Beals lived in a modest home in a less

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Speaker 1: than desirable part of town. The family described the neighborhood

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Speaker 1: as sometimes chaotic. Crime and poverty were concerns for residents

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Speaker 1: of Seat Pleasant, and you had to keep your wits

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Speaker 1: about you, they explained. Joanne stayed home with the four kids,

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Speaker 1: and Ronald supported the family working as a long haul

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Speaker 1: trucker and doing construction. He was often away from home

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Speaker 1: and money was pretty tight. He had two jobs. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: he went out and he had the long haul and

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Speaker 1: the other job was construction. So he was pretty busy,

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Speaker 1: and so he did the work. He paid the bills.

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Speaker 1: I was to go grocery shopping, and I was taking

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Speaker 1: care of the kids in the home, and that was it. Sandy,

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Speaker 1: an outgoing girl with a knack for making friends, navigated

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Speaker 1: the streets of seat Pleasant with relative ease. But make

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Speaker 1: no mistakes, she would not suffer somebody being wrong to

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Speaker 1: her or messing with her. And then you know, she was,

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Speaker 1: you know, very smart, very pristine in her own way.

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Speaker 1: But you know, she was very fierce, I guess was

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Speaker 1: the best way to put it. She didn't like me

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Speaker 1: trying to braid her hair. She hated that even when

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Speaker 1: a little girl. And I was so happy because I

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Speaker 1: had a little girl. I could breage, you know, and

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Speaker 1: she'd take it out and I'd take it back, and

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Speaker 1: so after a while I just let it be straggling.

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Speaker 1: She was a queen. She was the oldest, and she

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Speaker 1: lets you know about it. She was the boss. We

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Speaker 1: all shared one room, but Sandy had her own room,

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Speaker 1: and no one was loud in her room but her

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Speaker 1: unless you had special permission to get in there. That's Michael,

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Speaker 1: Sandy's oldest brother and the sibling who was closest to her.

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Speaker 1: He's in his early sixties now and lives near the

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Speaker 1: coast with his wife Becky. When you get to know Michael,

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Speaker 1: he has a really gentle demeanor, but from the outside

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Speaker 1: he looks tough, like the kind of guy whose foot

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to accidentally step on in a bar.

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Speaker 1: I do remember she like an easy bake oven, and

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Speaker 1: we used to make a bunch of junk and eat it.

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Speaker 1: And she had a makeup mirror, and you know, different

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Speaker 1: things as you know as a young girl, stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: We really seldom ever thought about anything. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: were just really connected. And actually when we were I

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Speaker 1: think I was fifteen or so, she might have been sixteen,

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Speaker 1: is when we found out she was actually adopted. Joanne

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Speaker 1: got pregnant with Sandy Young around her eighteenth birthday. Sandy's

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Speaker 1: biological father wasn't interested in becoming a dad, but Ronald,

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Speaker 1: a suitor of Joanne's who should written letters to while

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Speaker 1: he was deployed overseas, was up for the task. He

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Speaker 1: married Joanne when she was eight months pregnant and raised

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Speaker 1: Sandy as his own child. When my mom told us then,

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Speaker 1: I was like, at first, I didn't believe it. I

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Speaker 1: was like, what are you kid me? All this time

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Speaker 1: my dad treated everybody equal and then after that when

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Speaker 1: I found that out, I was just even more in

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Speaker 1: love with her as a sister type. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: like wow. She asked a lot of questions like what

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Speaker 1: happened and why and different things like that, but the

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Speaker 1: answers she got were it was enough to satisfy her

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Speaker 1: as like, Okay, well, I mean, you know, I'm never

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Speaker 1: going to stop loving my dad. And you know, whether

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Speaker 1: or not he's my real dad or not, he's He's

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Speaker 1: always been my dad and he always will be my dad.

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Speaker 1: So I think we kind of got tighter. If anything,

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Speaker 1: We've been through a lot in this family. I say,

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00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 1: the Good Lord was good to me to give me

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Speaker 1: a life to live this long. We know what we've

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Speaker 1: been through and it's been helped. I hope they we

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Speaker 1: find out something. There's no sign of identity theft slowing down,

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Speaker 1: and why should it. More than twenty nine billion dollars

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Speaker 1: cyber criminals, it's a success story. To the rest of us,

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Speaker 1: it's a wake up call. Your personal info is in

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Speaker 1: more places now than ever, and all that exposure can

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Speaker 1: true crime podcast. The year is eighteen hundred, City Hall,

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Speaker 1: New York. The first murder trial in the American judicial system,

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Speaker 1: A messas trial for the charge of murder. Even with

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Speaker 1: defense lawyer Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr on the case,

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Speaker 1: this is probably the most famous trial you've never heard of.

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Speaker 1: When you lay suffering a sudden, violent, brutal death, I

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Speaker 1: hope you'll think of me, Starring Alison Williams. I don't

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Speaker 1: need anything simplified, mister Hamilton, Thank you, with Tony Goldwyn

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Speaker 1: as Alexander Hamilton. Don't be so sad, It doesn't suit you.

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Speaker 1: Written and created by me Alison Black. Listen to Erase

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Speaker 1: the Murder of Elma San's. She was a sweet, happy,

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00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 1: virtuous girl until she met that man. Right there on

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. When Tracy were kel Burns was two years old,

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Speaker 1: her baby brother died. I was told that Matthew died

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Speaker 1: in an accident, and no one really talked about it.

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Speaker 1: Her parents told police she had killed him. Medical rect

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Speaker 1: it s faid that I killed my baby brother. I'm

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Speaker 1: Nancy Glass. Join me for Burden of Guilt, the new

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Speaker 1: podcast that tells the truth. An incredible story of a

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00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 1: toddler who was framed for murder and how she grew

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Speaker 1: into an adult determined to get justice and protect her family.

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Speaker 1: While we had prosecuted some cold cases, this was the coldest.

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Speaker 1: This was frigid. But how does a two year old

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Speaker 1: get blamed for murder? She said? We wanted a new life.

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Speaker 1: You just don't know what it's like when you'll do

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Speaker 1: anything for somebody. Listen to Burden of Guilt on the

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Speaker 1: at CuriosityStream dot com. For over forty years, the Beal

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Speaker 1: family has believed that Sandy was a victim of a

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Speaker 1: violent crime, a belief fueled by the suspicion that her

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00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,360
Speaker 1: death was covered up. Here's Stephen. The guilty carry around

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00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: over time that shit turns with fucking anger. You pissed,

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Speaker 1: you son of a bit. She stole from me, You

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00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:28,120
Speaker 1: stole my family said. Put that category unforgivable shit. Sandy's

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Speaker 1: sudden death was disorienting to her family. She lived at

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Speaker 1: home and her family saw her every day. They were

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Speaker 1: intimately familiar with her behaviors, her moods, and her values.

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Speaker 1: The Sandy they knew was optimistic and ambitious, and, like

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Speaker 1: many teen girls her age, eager for her real life,

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Speaker 1: her adult life to begin. She was popular, she worked

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Speaker 1: part time at the mall. She didn't appear depressed or

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Speaker 1: withdrawn or hopeless. Suicide it didn't align with her personality.

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Speaker 1: And again, she had being you know, as passionate as

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Speaker 1: she wasn't fierce as she was. I just would not

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Speaker 1: have thought that she would want to do something like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just never got could not wrap my

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Speaker 1: fucking head around her doing it. Suicide seemed completely out

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Speaker 1: of character for Sandy, and the crime scene, instead of

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Speaker 1: bringing closure, just raised more questions. Police said, Sandy had

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Speaker 1: shot herself in the right side of her abdomen, but

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Speaker 1: the teen was left handed. The family told me how

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Speaker 1: they tried to put themselves in Sandy's shoes, imagining how

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Speaker 1: she would have shot herself sitting in the front seat

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Speaker 1: of her subcompact Flord Pinto with a steering wheel in

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00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: front of her chest. The gun would have been too

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Speaker 1: heavy for Sandy to hold and fire with her non

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Speaker 1: dominant right hand. Instead, she would have had to reach

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Speaker 1: across her body with her left hand to aim the

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00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 1: gun at her right side. It seemed like a clumsy

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Speaker 1: way to shoot oneself. When I was told what was happening,

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Speaker 1: what had happened, I was like, it's no way, It's

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Speaker 1: just no way. It's it's going to be. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: leave it. Michael was familiar with the gun found in

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Speaker 1: Sandy's car. In fact, all the kids in the Beal

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Speaker 1: family knew about the gun. It was owned by Sandy's father.

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Speaker 1: It was an eight inch long barrel, chrome black handle

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Speaker 1: black Hawk model, very nice looking gun. And like I said,

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Speaker 1: it was long, and it was always loaded with hollow

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Speaker 1: point bullets. It was actually white something to shoot. It

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Speaker 1: was so powerful that when I first shot it, I

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Speaker 1: had to hold it with both hand ans because I

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Speaker 1: didn't know what to expect out of it. It was

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Speaker 1: because of their strong familiarity with the gun and it's large,

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Speaker 1: cumbersome quality that the balls were convinced Sandy could not

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Speaker 1: have used it on herself. It's got a lot that

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00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: those three fifty seven forty four's, you know, they have

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Speaker 1: a lot of recoil, a lot of largest handguns you're

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Speaker 1: gonna get. Yeah, I think Dirty Harry Madnum, you know

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Speaker 1: the old movies like that he pulls out that it's

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Speaker 1: about that length gun recoiled with a senate flying. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's his physics. Her left hand would have never gone

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Speaker 1: over that far to be able to do that, and

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Speaker 1: the unbelievable part about her committing suicide was just too

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Speaker 1: far out. The family also thought the location of the

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00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 1: wound was strange. Why would someone intent on suicide shoot

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Speaker 1: themselves off center in the stomach and as small as

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00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: she was in the in the size of that gun

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Speaker 1: on her not dominant hand would have would have been

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Speaker 1: really hard. I mean, if that's what you plan on doing,

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Speaker 1: was killing yourself, that was certainly you know, why don't

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Speaker 1: you just slowly walk through a fire and see if

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Speaker 1: you'll eventually, you know, burn a death. We don't know

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00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,120
Speaker 1: why Sandy had her father's gun with her that evening,

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Speaker 1: but her family is convinced that whatever she was doing,

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00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: she wasn't alone. When the Bells got her clothes back

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00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: from police, they noticed that she dressed up nicely, wearing

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Speaker 1: brown gaucho slacks, a white blouse, and calf high black

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00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 1: suede boots that her mom had given her for Christmas.

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00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 1: Sandy's nails were recently manicured, painted with pale pearlyized nail polish.

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Speaker 1: To the family, her choice of outfit suggested she was

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Speaker 1: meeting someone that night, who else they wanted to know

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Speaker 1: could have been in the Pollyard with Sandy. Here's what

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00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: they think happened. Sandy was shot by someone else sitting

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00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 1: beside her in the passenger seat. This would explain the

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00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: location of the gunshot and the trajectory of the bullet

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00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: from the right side of Sandy's abdomen to the left

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00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: side of her back. It was the cardboard found under

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00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: the wheels of Sandy's car that solidified their doubts. The

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00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: cardboard told a story of a girl who was trying

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Speaker 1: to leave the Pollyard that night, not one intent on suicide.

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Speaker 1: A brand new historical true crime podcast. The year is

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00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: eighteen hundred, City Hall, New York. The first murder trial

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00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 1: in the American judicial system. A mess trial for the

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00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: charge of murder, even with defense lawyers Alexander Hamilton and

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Speaker 1: Erringburr on the case. This is probably the most famous

400
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: trial you never heard of. When you lay suffering a sudden, violent,

401
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: brutal death, I hope you'll think of me. Starring Alison Williams.

402
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: I don't need anything simplified, mister Hamilton, Thank you, with

403
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: Tony Goldwyn as Alexander Hamilton. Don't be so sad, It

404
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 1: doesn't suit you. Written and created by me. Alison Black

405
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 1: listened to Erased the murder of Elma San's. She was

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00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: a sweet, happy, virtueous girl until she met that man

407
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 1: right there on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

408
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: you listen to your podcasts. When Tracy were kel Burns

409
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: was two years old, her baby brother died. I was

410
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,360
Speaker 1: told that Matthew died in an accident, and no one

411
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: really talked about it. Her parents told police she had

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00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: killed him. Medical records said that I killed my baby brother.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Glass. Join me for Burden of Guilt, the

414
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 1: new podcast that tells the truth an incredible story of

415
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: a toddler who was framed for murder and how she

416
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,920
Speaker 1: grew into an adult determined to get justice and protect

417
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: her family. While we had prosecuted some cold cases, this

418
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: was the coldest, This was frigid. But how does a

419
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: two year old get blamed for murder? She said? We

420
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: wanted a new life. You just don't know what it's

421
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,719
Speaker 1: like when you'll do anything for somebody. Listen to Burden

422
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 1: of Guilt on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

423
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. I noticed Jacob is not in

424
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: his crib, so I look in and says she's not there.

425
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: So I'm like, Okay, they're not there. Unrestorable is a

426
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: new true crime podcast that investigates the case of Catherine Hoggle,

427
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: a mother accused of murder. I'm thinking, you know, like

428
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: what's going on, Like this is insane, Like where are

429
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Speaker 1: my kids? Despite signs that Catherine Hoggle took her tiny

430
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: children one by one into the night, never to come

431
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: home again, she has yet to stand trial. Because soon

432
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: after her children went missing, she was declared incompetent to

433
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Speaker 1: stand trial. We have a blueprint to get away with

434
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: murder and stay of Maryland. At this point in Maryland,

435
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: if a defendant is found incompetent and can't be restored

436
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Speaker 1: to competency, their felony charges are dismissed after five years. So,

437
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Speaker 1: as the clock counts down, Catherine's charges on the verge

438
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439
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Speaker 1: There's something's wrong her, you know, whenever one was allowed

440
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Speaker 1: to kill my two kids. Listen to Unrestorable on the

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Speaker 1: My name is Kim Parler. I am a second cousin

465
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: of Sandy Beale, and we are in the home of

466
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: where the origin of all of our family began, in

467
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: John's Port, Maine. I met Kim at a hotel just

468
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: up the street from Joanne's house. Kim is a licensed

469
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: therapist and it comes through in the way she communicates.

470
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: She makes good eye contact and speaks carefully, with kindness

471
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: and warmth. She's the type of person who makes you

472
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: feel like you could tell her anything and she'd never

473
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: judge you. Is Kim now sixty four, lives in Texas

474
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: and she's got a solid tan to show for it,

475
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: But she comes to Maine, the place of her birth,

476
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 1: whenever she can to see the beills. Sandy has a

477
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: grave marker here too, and she visits it when she can.

478
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,720
Speaker 1: So this is a map of just Prince George's county

479
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: in the area where she lived. And based on all

480
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: the information that I have of her date books or

481
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: letters or anything that had an address on it or

482
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: that I could identify, I plotted it onto the map.

483
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: Where she lived, where she went to school, where she died,

484
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: where she worked. This was just her little world. Kim

485
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: showed me the materials she's gathered over the years, medical records,

486
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: court documents, freedom of Information Act requests, spreading them out

487
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: on a hotel bed for me to look through. She's

488
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: the detective of the family, inquisitive, diligent, and fixated on

489
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: this idea of justice. Joanne and I just stayed in

490
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: touch intermittently over the years, and they started sending me stuff.

491
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: I was asking so many questions. They're like, here, just

492
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,960
Speaker 1: take it, and so that's you know, these files of

493
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: stuff that I have now. Kim is the entire reason

494
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: why I started looking into the story, why I learned

495
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: the name Sandy Beale in the first place. She's the

496
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 1: one who gave me Joanne's letter, and I just learned

497
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 1: to keep Sandy's summary with me. I carried it with

498
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 1: me all the time, so if I ever met anyone,

499
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 1: an investigator or whatever, I just passed them out. I

500
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: first met Kim at a domestic violence conference in Texas.

501
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: I was there to moderate a panel with Lorraina Bobbitt,

502
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: whose experience of domestic abuse and marital rape had been

503
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: badly overshadowed by the act that had made her infamous.

504
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 1: If you don't know her story, I encourage you to

505
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: look it up. Something I said that night must have

506
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 1: resen with Kim, because immediately after the panel she approached me.

507
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: Remember going up to you afterwards and almost running up

508
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: there and trying to get there before other people because

509
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to get bombarded with people

510
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 1: asking questions, and I thought, well, who knows, maybe she

511
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 1: would find this intriguing. I did. As a reporter, I've

512
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: written more stories than I can count about women who

513
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: have died violent deaths, and I've spent time with their

514
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: families as they've begun the grieving process. But usually those

515
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 1: cases had answers, however unsatisfying, they might feel. This was

516
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: a true mystery, one that had persisted for over four decades.

517
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:44,720
Speaker 1: The Beal family was stuck in the unknown. I kept

518
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: finding myself looking at a photo of Sandy that Kim

519
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: gave me along with Joanne's letter. It's a black and

520
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: white portrait Sandy's high school graduation photo. She has long, blonde,

521
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: feathered hair with a middle part that makes you think

522
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: a fair faucet. Her mouth is poised into a half smile,

523
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 1: and she stares off camera like something in the background

524
00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:12,720
Speaker 1: amuses her. Almost everyone I spoke to about Sandy mentioned

525
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,120
Speaker 1: how pretty she was, especially her long blonde hair, and

526
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: while she got attention for her looks, it didn't seem

527
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: to give her a big head. She was just genuinely

528
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: nice and friendly to those around her. That's the Sandy

529
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: Kim remembers. We didn't meet until we were fourteen. The

530
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: two girls were only six months apart, and their friendship

531
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 1: was a defining one. And we headed off and went

532
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: back to her bedroom like teenagers do, and we sat

533
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: on her bed and we just started talking and just

534
00:35:45,880 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: loved her from the start. Kim and Sandy met for

535
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: the first time shortly after Kim moved to Maryland to

536
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: a neighborhood about an hour from the Beals. The two

537
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 1: girls spent their early teenage years going back and forth

538
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: to each other's houses and trading worlds. Living in Maryland

539
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 1: was you know, you would think that it's this preppy,

540
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 1: kind of wonderful place with Annapolis and preppy clothes and everything.

541
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: But I look back now and those are some of

542
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: the most traumatic, scariest times of my life, the thanks

543
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: I got exposed to it at that age. While Kim

544
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,480
Speaker 1: was technically older by a few months, Sandy often played

545
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: the role of protector. And I'm like trying to avoid

546
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: it right now because i don't want to cry, but

547
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: I'm going to Okay. So at fourteen, I'm in this

548
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: new school and it was exciting and everything, and that

549
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,439
Speaker 1: I had to come pick me up one night because

550
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: I was at a friend's house at a playground in

551
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: the middle of a cult a sac and I'm just

552
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,400
Speaker 1: like waiting for my mom and this guy walks up

553
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: and I recognize him because he's on the football team.

554
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 1: He's a senior on the football team. And I, to

555
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: this date don't know how it unfolded, but before I

556
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,560
Speaker 1: knew it, he had his hands down my pants and

557
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,279
Speaker 1: I just remember freezing. I mean, I hadn't even been

558
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: kissed yet by a boy at all, and I'm thinking

559
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,879
Speaker 1: all these people they're looking out their windows watching this

560
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: guy do this to me, and I just dissociated. And

561
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: so that weekend I went to go see Sandy and

562
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: I was telling her about it, and I was really

563
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 1: upset about it, and she got pissed and she's like,

564
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to take care of this for you. Kim

565
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: told me that a few days later, Sandy appeared out

566
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: of the blue. She had driven an hour to Kim's

567
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: neighborhood to confront the football player who sexually assaulted Kim.

568
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,040
Speaker 1: Sandy was ready for a fight, but he was nowhere

569
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: to be found. It didn't matter to Kim, though, the

570
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 1: fact that Sandy showed up for her it was enough

571
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: That's the part that I remember the most, and I'm

572
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: just I never had been around anybody like that that

573
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 1: protected me like that. I knew she was going to

574
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: take care of me. It was a very short relationship

575
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: because she lost her life A few years later. Kim

576
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: left Maryland to go to college in Illinois while Sandy

577
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 1: was still in high school. The distance led the two

578
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: girls to fall out of frequent contact. Still, after police

579
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: found Sandy's body, Kim was one of the first people

580
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: that joined called to let her know what had happened.

581
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 1: I just remember getting that call from Joanne that Sandy

582
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: had died, and I just remember being shocked and like,

583
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,439
Speaker 1: what do you mean? You know? Eighteen year olds don't

584
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: die from a gunshot wound. Kim tried desperately to get

585
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 1: back to Maryland for the funeral, but couldn't afford the journey.

586
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 1: I remember looking into the flights and they were way

587
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: too expensive. So I looked into the train, but it

588
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: was ninety dollars from Chicago to Washington, DC, and it

589
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 1: it could have just been ten thousand. I didn't have it.

590
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: She missed the funeral but kept in regular contact with Joanne.

591
00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: She died on the eleventh on a Friday, very early

592
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 1: in the morning. But she had gone out the tenth

593
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: Thursday night, so something happened like right at midnight. She

594
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 1: was probably alone for eight or nine hours, hurting and

595
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: shot and dark. She had to be scared to death.

596
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:59,719
Speaker 1: That should not happen to anybody. Joanne was notified of

597
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: sand Andy's death when a detective came to her house.

598
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 1: He asked if she and her husband, Ronald could come

599
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 1: to the precinct later that day see when he came

600
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 1: in to tell us and tell me what happened. He said,

601
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: when your husband gets home, will you guys come over

602
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 1: to the barracks. And everything was laid out on the table.

603
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: Sandy's personal belongings, items collected from her car were spread

604
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 1: out like evidence for her parents to see. And among

605
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 1: her things was a letter. It was written to a

606
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: man named Doug and addressed to his place of work,

607
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: the Maryland State Police Department. He had a uniform on.

608
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: He gave her a sweet talk and now it went

609
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: to the surprise of her family, Sandy was in a relationship.

610
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: Doug was ten years older than her and married with

611
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: a young child. This discovery agitated Sandy's grieving parents and

612
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: left them with a slew of questions. But at the precinct,

613
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: Joanne and Ronald were left with the impression that the

614
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 1: investigation was basically complete, no more answers would be forthcoming.

615
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: It's common for police to speak with the boyfriend in

616
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: unnatural deaths such as this. When women are murdered, it's

617
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: far more likely to be at the hands of a

618
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: husband or boyfriend than anyone else. But as far as

619
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: Joanne knew, Doug, the State trooper, was never interviewed in

620
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: the course of the investigation, which seemed particularly odd when

621
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: you consider the location of Sandy's death. The Pepco utility

622
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: yard was only a mile down the road from the

623
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 1: State Police barracks where Doug worked, and as the family

624
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: soon learned, the pole yard was a popular state trooper hangout.

625
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 1: And then the place where she died. That was the

626
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: most revealing to see that literally they're across the street

627
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,920
Speaker 1: from each other, the Maryland State Police barracks of the

628
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: man that she was dating, and then the place that

629
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: she died that was a well known place where police

630
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:10,280
Speaker 1: gathered to you know, I guess have privacy for whatever reason.

631
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: How police do their jobs in the aftermath of an

632
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 1: unexpected death can have a profound and lasting impact on

633
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 1: the families of victims. Sandy's death was a defining moment

634
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: for the Beial family, but what came next, What they

635
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 1: feel was an absence of a proper investigation compounded their

636
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: trauma without confidence in the police that Beial family suspected

637
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: a conspiracy. A guide for investigators published by the Department

638
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: of Justice in nineteen ninety nine explains how essential it

639
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Speaker 1: is to ensure that the proper steps and procedures are

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00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 1: taken at the scene of a death. Quote. Few things

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00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,800
Speaker 1: in our democracy are as important as ensuring that citizens

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00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:04,760
Speaker 1: have confidence in their institutions in a crisis. For many individuals,

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00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: the death of a loved one is just such a crisis.

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00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to understand how the Beal family and the

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00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 1: police could have such starkly different interpretations of the same events.

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00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: This chasm, I felt deserved scrutiny. One thing I was

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00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: sure of the Beal family, even after forty five years,

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00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: was adamant that there was something suspicious about Sandy's death,

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00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 1: and because of that they had endured decades of uncertainty,

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00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: and to be honest, I sensed it too. I thought

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00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: it was strange that Sandy was shot in the stomach,

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00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: and I questioned whether she would have been able to

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00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: kill herself the way cop said she did. It seemed

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00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: like there was more to Sandy's story than her family

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00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: knew after so many years. I didn't know what kind

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00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: of answers I'd find, But tucked away in the tattered

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00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 1: stack of papers Kim collect did we're clues to Sandy's past,

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00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 1: Clues that offered me a rare glimpse into Sandy's private life,

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00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: clues written by Sandy herself, if she hadn't written that

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00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: damn note to shiphead. On our next episode, we learn

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00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: about Doug and his relationship with Sandy, and I speak

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00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: to the detective in charge of Sandy's case. I would

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00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: compare my skills as a homicide detectas against anybody in

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Speaker 1: the world. Scotland Yard, New York City, anywhere Fred affel Lander,

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00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:54,800
Speaker 1: their loaded rhythm, anywhere you go, there's nobody, there's nobody

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00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: any better. It turns out he had a lot to say.

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00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: What Happened to Sandy Beal is hosted by me Melissa Jelson.

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00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: It's written and produced by me and Katrina Norvel. The

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00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: podcast is edited by Abu Safar, sound designed by Aaron Kaufman.

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00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: Jason English is our executive producer. Research and production assistance

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00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 1: by Marisa Brown. To find out more about my investigation,

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00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at Quasamado. That's qu as im

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00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 1: A d O. Thanks so much for listening. A brand

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Speaker 1: new historical true crime podcast. When you lay suffering a

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Speaker 1: sudden brutal death starring Alison william I hope you'll think

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Speaker 1: of me. Erased the Murder of Elvia Sahans. She was

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Speaker 1: a sweet, happy, virtuous girl until she met that man

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Speaker 1: right there. Written and created by me, Alison Flock. Is

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Speaker 1: it possible? So we're standing by for your aunt. Erased

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Speaker 1: the Murder of Elma Saints on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your podcasts. When Tracey, who

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Speaker 1: were killed Burns was two years old, her baby brother died.

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Speaker 1: I was told that Matthew died in an accident. Her

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Speaker 1: parents told police she had killed him. I'm Nancy Glass.

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Speaker 1: Join me for Burden of Guilt, the new podcast that

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: The System's broken. I said something's wrong her, you know,

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Speaker 1: whenever a one is allowed to kill my two kids.

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Speaker 1: Unrestorable is a new true crime podcast that investigates the

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Speaker 1: case of Catherine Hoggle, a mother accused of murder. Despite

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Speaker 1: signs that Katherine Hoggle took her tiny children one by

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Speaker 1: one into the night, never to come home again, she

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Speaker 1: has yet to stand trial. Listen to Unrestorable on the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: crime shows like Paper Ghosts, Betrayal, and The Idaho Massacre.

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Speaker 1: I'm Moroka and I'm excited to announce Season four of

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Speaker 1: my podcast Mobituaries. I've got a whole new bunch of

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Speaker 1: with Moroka on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Fall is coming and the nights

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