Speaker 1: Warning. This recording contains discussions of eating disorders, body image,
Speaker 1: and potentially triggering topics related to food and mental health.
Speaker 1: These subjects may be sensitive for some listeners.
Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know are
Speaker 2: you a Charlotte?
Speaker 3: Hi?
Speaker 2: Everyone, welcome to Are You a Charlotte? Today. We have
Speaker 2: a very fascinating guest in Catching Up with Friends. His
Speaker 2: name is Jacob Pitts and he plays the other Sam
Speaker 2: Jones in episode seventeen of season three, What Goes Around
Speaker 2: Comes Around. He is the young NYU student that Samantha
Speaker 2: Jones ends up having sex with. I'm sure you all
Speaker 2: remember him because he was incredible, which is partly why
Speaker 2: we wanted to track him down and talk to him.
Speaker 2: And he does not disappoint you, guys. He's super fascinating.
Speaker 2: He's gone on to have a really great career. He
Speaker 2: was in the Pacific on HBO. He was Unjustified with
Speaker 2: Timothy olliphent While Goggins, which I totally forgot to talk
Speaker 2: to him about because he was so incredibly interesting. All right,
Speaker 2: please enjoy my conversation with Jacob Pitts. Hello, Hi, thank
Speaker 2: you for joining us. Jacob Pitts very exciting. We really
Speaker 2: really wanted you on. You did, yes, yes, because you
Speaker 2: play a very unusual and interesting character, your young self.
Speaker 2: So take me back. So, first of all, I'm pretty
Speaker 2: sure this is We just watched this episode, so you
Speaker 2: we were like, who is that kid? He's amazing playing
Speaker 2: the other Sam Jones, And you look like you might
Speaker 2: be seventeen or something. You look so young. So tell us,
Speaker 2: tell us.
Speaker 1: Well, I was interesting, you say, a very unusual character.
Speaker 1: I think I was very unusual at that point in
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 2: In a good way, not always. Okay, okay, tell us more,
Speaker 2: tell us more, Well, I.
Speaker 1: Think I was about twenty going on twelve, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I think I was not to start out really dark,
Speaker 1: but I believe I was in the throes of some
Speaker 1: kind of anorexia.
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, yeah, oh no.
Speaker 1: I'd done a Broadway play and I saw some photo
Speaker 1: of myself that I saw recently again in the last
Speaker 1: couple of years, and I thought I looked chunky I
Speaker 1: saw the last couple of years. Of course, I saw
Speaker 1: him like, I don't want Chunky at all, And I
Speaker 1: got obsessed with doing unendurable things like running seven miles
Speaker 1: a day and only buying products that had zero fat
Speaker 1: in it. Oh yeah, I could go on. There's some
Speaker 1: stuff that I've once described to a friend of mine.
Speaker 1: He said that sounds like psychosis. So oh no, it
Speaker 1: was perfect for the part at the time.
Speaker 2: I mean, fully perfect for the part. But separate from that,
Speaker 2: I think it's so interesting to hear from an actor
Speaker 2: talking about it because we're all human, right, and we're
Speaker 2: in this really weird situation where our visual selves are
Speaker 2: a huge part of what we're doing, like what our
Speaker 2: job is, what we love, what we're committed to. I mean,
Speaker 2: did you feel like that was part of it? That
Speaker 2: you took that picture?
Speaker 1: The odd thing is that's not the sort of thing
Speaker 1: I worried about at all, Like it wasn't like it
Speaker 1: was that I can remember, uh huh. It just I
Speaker 1: saw that in the picture, and then I became obsessed
Speaker 1: with that. I go from obsession to obsession throughout my life.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, fair enough, I feel similar to that. Yes, yes,
Speaker 2: And it's all about moderating the obsession, right.
Speaker 1: We're finding a less terrifying one.
Speaker 2: So absolutely absolutely. I mean I'm sober. I'm a long
Speaker 2: time sober, and I started at eleven. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: I started drinking out eleven correct, Yes, I know, insane,
Speaker 2: right insane. But what it was a screwdriver, you know,
Speaker 2: orange juice and vodka. And I was in some ways
Speaker 2: able to do that because I was in the theater
Speaker 2: and in a very not professional way in South Carolina,
Speaker 2: and so I was always around adults. You know, I'm
Speaker 2: very old. So it was the seventies and there was
Speaker 2: not a lot of like supervision in a weird way,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. So if you had that
Speaker 2: like you know, genetic leaning or whatever it might be. Yeah,
Speaker 2: then and I had read recently with anorexia that they're
Speaker 2: looking at there's a set of genes that they're looking
Speaker 2: at as being part of what might make you prone
Speaker 2: to that, which I think is super interesting.
Speaker 1: Well, I've never had ever since I forget what it
Speaker 1: was that. I think it was the run, the long
Speaker 1: distance running, and I justified to myself I could eat
Speaker 1: anything I wanted at that point. But I I've never
Speaker 1: had about or worry about other than being just a
Speaker 1: vain actor type. But I've never had a you know,
Speaker 1: worry about that otherwise.
Speaker 2: Interesting. So it just you saw this picture and then
Speaker 2: you became obsessed.
Speaker 1: I was obsessed for a better part of a year.
Speaker 2: I would say, wow, and our show came in the
Speaker 2: middle of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and yeah, I was I was only allowing myself
Speaker 1: to eat once my stomach was ravenous. Just some terrible
Speaker 1: yo play and peaches or something like that. Wow.
Speaker 2: So that manic energy that you have and the part
Speaker 2: that was that was real wow. So okay, before we
Speaker 2: discussed the part so more, how did you get out
Speaker 2: of this phase? Like what happened to get you out
Speaker 2: of there?
Speaker 1: I think it was that I think, well it was
Speaker 1: the wrong long distance running right then decided I could
Speaker 1: eat anything I want, And then I think I just
Speaker 1: found my way to marijuana.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's less, that's probably less dangerous, right.
Speaker 1: Well no, because then delusions of its own.
Speaker 2: Oh oh my god. Well, can I say, first of all,
Speaker 2: you seem super young, like like even I mean, your
Speaker 2: your energetics are so perfect for the part, because you
Speaker 2: look really young and you're thin, which I think kind
Speaker 2: of makes you look younger in a way, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, Like like boyish, very very yish.
Speaker 1: The boy undeveloped body kind.
Speaker 2: Of thing, definitely, definitely. And then where like.
Speaker 1: A regular old twin.
Speaker 2: Why how did you come to audition for our part
Speaker 2: for our show?
Speaker 1: I don't know. They just sent me there.
Speaker 2: So you're acting at this point like full aid this
Speaker 2: you're living in New York.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was living in New York. Oh man, I
Speaker 1: don't know how much of this I want to reveal.
Speaker 2: You don't have to reveal anything you don't want to.
Speaker 2: You're already fascinating.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, you know it was interesting watching the episode
Speaker 1: was that I've seen it three times now, okay, And
Speaker 1: the second time I watched it, I was too connected
Speaker 1: to that that kid, so I kind of watched it, sure,
Speaker 1: And the third this time, though, it was just it
Speaker 1: was that first feeling I've ever had of that's that's
Speaker 1: just a totally different person. It's not even wow, you
Speaker 1: know you've had that feeling, sure, yes, and so it
Speaker 1: was kind of a relief in that sense. But I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: this poor kid, because I remember all the dellusions he
Speaker 1: had and the crazy you know, uh yeah, friendless.
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh yeah, oh no, that's so sad.
Speaker 1: Few years before I got a real friends really good
Speaker 1: for that part, I was a real weirdo.
Speaker 2: I mean, you were perfect, perfect casting I'm sorry that
Speaker 2: I didn't see you, and I hope that somebody in
Speaker 2: our world was kind to you.
Speaker 1: You're not sorry you didn't see I know they were great.
Speaker 1: I was actually thinking about everyone was fine. Who I met?
Speaker 1: I God, I watched that and I thought that is
Speaker 1: I was running on pure instinct at that point. I
Speaker 1: had moved to New York about a year and a
Speaker 1: half earlier, and I started with just the most terrible
Speaker 1: acting school you could possibly, like, the most discouraging. I
Speaker 1: don't want to do any more acting classes after this school.
Speaker 1: It was just, you know, they broke it up into
Speaker 1: things like we actually had a course called the history
Speaker 1: of sitcoms. Oh yeah, really kind of sketchy stuff that
Speaker 1: I'm like, do we need to be studying this?
Speaker 2: Odd?
Speaker 1: I remember we had a scene study class with there
Speaker 1: were a sister and brother in the class. Okay, it
Speaker 1: pretty much cycled through all the partner ups you could,
Speaker 1: and at the end this sister and brother were partnered
Speaker 1: in a scene as lovers. No, yeah, that's how bad
Speaker 1: it was.
Speaker 2: That's not good.
Speaker 1: And so I didn't have and I don't know what
Speaker 1: it was. I couldn't No one could talk to me.
Speaker 1: I don't think I had that. I've since found out
Speaker 1: a bunch of my friends of the same age and
Speaker 1: kind of experience had the same experience where we would somehow.
Speaker 1: I think it was that I was looking to get
Speaker 1: into the business post Titanic, and they saw me as
Speaker 1: any kind of DiCaprio esque wow kid who could yell
Speaker 1: a sentence or two with eviction. It just picked him
Speaker 1: up and said, let's see which was.
Speaker 2: You know, that's amazing. I love that because I also
Speaker 2: I do feel like that's a big thing, right, Like
Speaker 2: someone hits so big like Leo did when he was
Speaker 2: really like his breakout whatever, and everyone's like, where's someone
Speaker 2: like him? But you know, good for you that you
Speaker 2: were in there, and I mean sad that you were
Speaker 2: in a scary acting class, but obviously you persevered. You've
Speaker 2: worked tons since then, and we got you like, like,
Speaker 2: what first acting job, second acting job, third, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: so you were really doing pretty well. I mean that's
Speaker 2: pretty good for that age, don't you think, Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: I was fantastic.
Speaker 1: I have no I had no appreciation of work.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think you do when you're young.
Speaker 2: But also you had a lot going on, so maybe
Speaker 2: you weren't really like, you know, grounded thinking about it right, Definitely.
Speaker 1: Not interesting thing about it is I, you know, James
Speaker 1: Dean was an idol of mine, and I only knew
Speaker 1: what I'd retained from some weird biographies. There was actually
Speaker 1: a Robert Altman documentary about him and Black and was
Speaker 1: one of the earliest things Robert Altman ever did.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: But I just remembered stories about him pulling a switchblade
Speaker 1: on directors and being unpredictable and real. Oh no, cass
Speaker 1: And I didn't. This acting class didn't give me any
Speaker 1: thing I didn't have. I didn't. I didn't grasp a
Speaker 1: single thing. Wow. If they had anything to teach me,
Speaker 1: and maybe if you could teach me anything, I couldn't
Speaker 1: hear it because I was such a sheltered, delusional kid.
Speaker 1: I needed to be this great James Dean genius. Wow.
Speaker 1: No one could hand, no one could direct, no one
Speaker 1: could handle. Wow. Yeah, it's crazy delusion.
Speaker 2: I mean it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: And there was a scene in the in the the
Speaker 1: party scene in this episode when uh, Samantha and Carrey
Speaker 1: first come up to me and I put a solo
Speaker 1: cup almost on a plastic inflatable cactus. Yeah, And at
Speaker 1: the time, I wanted to do the idea of just
Speaker 1: letting it go onto the cactus and spill out everywhere
Speaker 1: and do everything. And but I didn't know. I didn't
Speaker 1: have the experience where I could go go to the director,
Speaker 1: go to the cast, see if they want to do that, right,
Speaker 1: it's just in my head be like, no, it's got
Speaker 1: to be surprised. They can't know. Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And I didn't have the balls to go through with
Speaker 1: it because I didn't want to ruin this.
Speaker 2: That's probably good, that's probably good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But it was that kind of mentality interesting.
Speaker 2: So but I love the I love the kind of
Speaker 2: naive ambition of it all, you know, because sometimes I
Speaker 2: feel like young actors are just trying to play it safe,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, Like, especially maybe nowadays, where
Speaker 2: like I'm always pushing people who are younger to try
Speaker 2: to like step out, like try something, you know.
Speaker 1: I really think they're playing it safe these days.
Speaker 2: Are some that I know, some that I know I
Speaker 2: don't want to I don't want to call anyone out
Speaker 2: here on the podcast, but I feel like it might
Speaker 2: be somehow related to social media. I don't know if
Speaker 2: that's true or not, but.
Speaker 1: Like I'm sure it's true.
Speaker 2: Right, like some kind of perception that they have about
Speaker 2: how they should just be like kind of flat and
Speaker 2: natural all the time.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know, you're you're you're jet No, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean I'm ancient. Is really so you have?
Speaker 1: But you had the thing where I don't know, I
Speaker 1: grew up. This is the thing I've observed that I
Speaker 1: grew up on various cartoons and sitcoms where they always
Speaker 1: had a moral or a lesson at the end of
Speaker 1: the episode. Yeah, and they all had the one where
Speaker 1: you know what was the one Carlton got in trouble
Speaker 1: this week because he wanted to be cool for Will's
Speaker 1: friends from Philadelphia. Yes, yes, what he learned was that
Speaker 1: you shouldn't care what other people think and that you
Speaker 1: should just be yourself.
Speaker 2: But that's great. I think that's great.
Speaker 1: But did these kids grow up with any of that.
Speaker 2: I don't think they did.
Speaker 1: You ever got that special episode?
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like it. It doesn't seem like it.
Speaker 2: I mean. The interesting thing is I think also it's
Speaker 2: weird to be a young person acting right, so like
Speaker 2: you might have maybe a lot of supervision because people
Speaker 2: don't want to, you know, the safety. People are worried
Speaker 2: about safety. I don't know. I don't know what it is,
Speaker 2: but I do know that that there's a bunch of
Speaker 2: young people that I was like, you know, act you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, like go, whereas like for us,
Speaker 2: we were all looking at the Nero and Meryl Streep
Speaker 2: and you know, like actors, like real actors, where we
Speaker 2: wanted to be super like serious and risky and you know,
Speaker 2: emotional and all of those things. And I don't know
Speaker 2: if that's what they are looking at now as being
Speaker 2: there kind of their idols, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: And like for me, everything that you're saying separate from
Speaker 2: the fact that you were in a very dark place,
Speaker 2: which I feel really bad.
Speaker 1: I know it.
Speaker 2: I didn't know, like god, like I got it.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have known it if you told.
Speaker 2: Me, wow, wow, amazing. But like for me, I think
Speaker 2: that's partly why I really wanted to talk to you,
Speaker 2: is that here you are so young and our show,
Speaker 2: and our show at this point third season is pretty big,
Speaker 2: like it's pretty successful. I don't know if you were
Speaker 2: aware of that. No, amazing because you're just so bold
Speaker 2: in the part. I mean it's written as bold obviously,
Speaker 2: like you play Sam Jones. You know, Samantha Jones gets
Speaker 2: these phone calls just in case anyone has it watched
Speaker 2: it this week or whatever. And your friends start calling
Speaker 2: our Samantha saying, you know, we're coming to your party,
Speaker 2: and she's like, what party is this? And who's this
Speaker 2: other Sam Jones? And how come I haven't met him?
Speaker 2: And oh, he has an address that's near Washington Square Park.
Speaker 2: He must be rich. But of course you're in a
Speaker 2: dorm at NYU. It's also hysterical. So she and Carrie
Speaker 2: end up at your party with a bunch of young people,
Speaker 2: college age kids, and then she eventually you basically say
Speaker 2: something to the effect of you know, I must be
Speaker 2: the wrong Sam Jones because I'm still a virgin, like
Speaker 2: you just blurred out to her at the party, which
Speaker 2: is adorable, and she's like, oh, and then she did
Speaker 2: she leaves, thank god, because I was nervous. I was like, no, Sam,
Speaker 2: don't do it, because I don't remember a lot of
Speaker 2: things when I look back, right like certainly other people's storylines,
Speaker 2: I don't remember what's going to happen. But then she
Speaker 2: does relent and I can't remember right now why she
Speaker 2: lens even though I just watched it, but she goes.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty forcable. I kind of forced myself.
Speaker 2: You do. You're like you have a lot, You're very persuasive,
Speaker 2: definitely a lot of energy, and also like you seem
Speaker 2: just very sure of yourself. You know, like, even just
Speaker 2: watching you as an actor, I thought that young actor
Speaker 2: is very sure of himself. Like, wow, I'm so impressed.
Speaker 2: And then you guys have very athletic sex, and you're
Speaker 2: very very funny, and the sex very very funny. Your
Speaker 2: faces and everything is very entertaining. And then you tell.
Speaker 4: Her you love her like a little puppy dog like
Speaker 4: it's so sweet at the end, and then she's like
Speaker 4: bye bye, and then you go like down in a dark,
Speaker 4: dark freak out, which is also so adorable because normally
Speaker 4: that's what you see women doing, right, and.
Speaker 2: You're like Samantha at the door of Sam Jones. Sam Jones, So,
Speaker 2: I have so many questions. Number one, do you remember
Speaker 2: anything filming it in particular, other than that you had
Speaker 2: a theory that you were going to put the drink
Speaker 2: all over everyone.
Speaker 1: I remember very little. What I do remember is well,
Speaker 1: there were only two days.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, but you packed a lot in.
Speaker 1: I remember Alan Colter giving direction.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is your experience, but anytime
Speaker 1: he had something for.
Speaker 2: Me, he was like, definitely, definitely that thing.
Speaker 1: And then I remember it was my first experience with
Speaker 1: the modesty pouch. Yes, And they gave me two options,
Speaker 1: the skin colored thong and the tarzan g string. Yes,
Speaker 1: and they say which do you want. I remember going,
Speaker 1: whoaoa whoa. I thought this was HBO, want to see
Speaker 1: what happens?
Speaker 2: Oh Jesus, yeah.
Speaker 1: Exact delusional and I thought I was and Kim and
Speaker 1: Kim Cattrall is like, no, but this is Kim Cotrell
Speaker 1: and I was like, okay, So I took the Tarzan.
Speaker 3: Thing, Okay, okay.
Speaker 2: Do you remember why you have the accent that you
Speaker 2: have because you're from Connecticut? Correct?
Speaker 1: Correct? Yes?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: So what happened?
Speaker 1: Well, I think I could be wrong. I think there
Speaker 1: was something, and I think it was in the audition
Speaker 1: scene as well. I thought there was some reference in
Speaker 1: the script to Texan.
Speaker 2: Oh, if there was, I missed it, but.
Speaker 1: Cool, I don't know. I didn't think they. I think
Speaker 1: I didn't because when we start, okay, they played like
Speaker 1: a jingly, jangly banjo kind.
Speaker 2: Of they did. That's true.
Speaker 1: I feel like that was always baked in.
Speaker 2: Somehow got it. I thought maybe it was Culter, who
Speaker 2: has an accent kind of like not exactly the same,
Speaker 2: but like a little Southern isms kind of to him.
Speaker 2: I didn't know where that came from, but I love
Speaker 2: it as a choice.
Speaker 1: I don't think it came from me. I don't think I.
Speaker 2: Well, you committed to it. You committed to it in
Speaker 2: a very adorable way, very adorable.
Speaker 1: Joe buck there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good. It was really good. It was
Speaker 2: just as I said, it was so different from the
Speaker 2: normal guy parts on our show, which are like often
Speaker 2: a little bland ish. I don't want to criticize them all,
Speaker 2: but and then until we find out whatever makes the
Speaker 2: relationship go wrong, right, But like, you were just full
Speaker 2: on out there the whole time, Like I thought it
Speaker 2: was so so, so fantastic and perfect, and that you
Speaker 2: were so young doing that I thought was just super interesting.
Speaker 2: And I'm curious what your experience was like if you
Speaker 2: can remember when that aired, well.
Speaker 1: I went to a couple of my friends from that
Speaker 1: terrible acting school had HBO and they were in Union,
Speaker 1: New Jersey. So I went over to Union to watch it, okay,
Speaker 1: and so that was that was that.
Speaker 2: Did they like it?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: Were you were they impressed?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Okay, okay? Did people shout at you on the street
Speaker 2: and say, like Sam Jones, No, actually have not.
Speaker 1: I it's It's the funny funny thing is like I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm seldom recognized.
Speaker 2: For that, understandably because you're like a grown up now,
Speaker 2: but I mean it's.
Speaker 1: Like every seven years somebody recognizes me from editors. I
Speaker 1: find myself in a conversation where they're like, but you're
Speaker 1: Sam Jones. You know. You're like, it's a really famous thing, right,
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I'm like, okay, well it is.
Speaker 2: It stands out, it really does.
Speaker 1: But then six years of silence from the world passes,
Speaker 1: and then another somebody comes up and it's like you're right,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, is it.
Speaker 2: I think it's because you don't seem like you're insane.
Speaker 2: You know, like that's probably a good thing that you're
Speaker 2: not walking around like shouting manic things, right.
Speaker 1: If that's going to get me the people the recognition.
Speaker 1: I deserve them.
Speaker 2: Okay, if you feel one day like you need a
Speaker 2: little recognition, just just start shouting names, either Sam Jones
Speaker 2: or anyone's name. I bet you you could get some attention. Well,
Speaker 2: I think it's really amazing. And I'm sorry that you
Speaker 2: were like running seven miles a day and I'm not
Speaker 2: really eating when you were with us, But I'm so
Speaker 2: glad that you found your way out of it.
Speaker 1: You know, you can achieve certain states of plis when
Speaker 1: you're starving yourself.
Speaker 2: That is so so true. Not that we recommend that
Speaker 2: to want to endorsement, right, definitely.
Speaker 1: Amazing the endurance of the human metabolism.
Speaker 2: That's so true, but also like just so fascinating. And
Speaker 2: I know as I mean, I think I've probably gone
Speaker 2: on record many a time talking about the crazy dieting
Speaker 2: that I've done through my career. So bad, Probably not,
Speaker 2: I don't think to the extent that you're describing, because
Speaker 2: I probably would never remembered my lines at a certain point,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying, Like at a certain point
Speaker 2: you can't really function, you know, Yeah, and I would
Speaker 2: just break down and eat French fries or something. But
Speaker 2: I mean, I've gone on really long times where I'm
Speaker 2: like eating M and M's like I would just have
Speaker 2: some thing where I'd be like, I'm just gonna eat
Speaker 2: it so bad, so bad, and you can really kind
Speaker 2: of go for a while like that. You know. It's interesting.
Speaker 2: It's not great, not great, not great for your health.
Speaker 2: But yeah, when you're you know, like if you have
Speaker 2: some scene and in your young mind you've built it up,
Speaker 2: you know, and you're nervous and you're not going to
Speaker 2: wear a lot of clothes or you've got really tight
Speaker 2: clothes or whatever it is, and you're like, I just
Speaker 2: have to make it to that scene, so I'm just
Speaker 2: not going to eat till then, you know, like craziness.
Speaker 2: Craziness actors do, I mean everyone, I guess everyone does this, right,
Speaker 2: I mean I don't know if everyone, but people are
Speaker 2: prone to be doing things like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's maybe with actors it's more transient because
Speaker 1: it is attached to a job, as opposed to something
Speaker 1: that's so baked in. Neuroses.
Speaker 2: It's true. It's true, though. I do think I think
Speaker 2: our neuroses are you know, baked in and then kind
Speaker 2: of like stirred by the job, you know, what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 2: I certainly had a lot of people telling me that
Speaker 2: I wasn't thin enough, right, Like it wasn't just me,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, so you know the stuff they tell
Speaker 1: you in this business that's accepted as normal is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty bonkers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you wonder what kind of person you'd be if
Speaker 1: you never had done this?
Speaker 2: I mean absolutely, But I also feel and I mean
Speaker 2: this is just me, but I also feel like if
Speaker 2: I hadn't had a job where I was able to
Speaker 2: express myself, I don't know what would have happened to
Speaker 2: me either, right, That's true, you know, like as positives negatives, you.
Speaker 1: Know, it's like the thing when in I don't know,
Speaker 1: hanging out in la or trying to make worm my
Speaker 1: way into the improv scene for a while, and these
Speaker 1: be finding myself in these constant contests of one upmanship
Speaker 1: and strange high school kind of mentality and being insecure
Speaker 1: and always trying to be the wittiest in the room,
Speaker 1: and then finding myself hanging out with my cousins or
Speaker 1: people who are not in the business at all, and
Speaker 1: all of a sudden feeling, oh, I'm like Robin Williams
Speaker 1: and normal people yes, but to entertainers, I'm like not,
Speaker 1: definitely not. Robin Williams.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's a good point. It's a really good point.
Speaker 2: And I do think you kind of get into like
Speaker 2: an insular thing of like when you're in New York
Speaker 2: or LA trying to do the you know, the job
Speaker 2: and hanging with all the people, Well, you can feel like, gosh,
Speaker 2: I'm like this wallpaper, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 2: I'm nothing. When you go out in the real world,
Speaker 2: you're like, oh yeah, no, nope, nope, nope, don't fit
Speaker 2: in here either, you know what I mean. Like it's interesting,
Speaker 2: it's really interesting. So I'm also curious because you've gone
Speaker 2: on to do many many TV shows and things, all
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. Do you like it? Like, what was
Speaker 2: your favorite job?
Speaker 1: I think pound for pound My favorite job, which was
Speaker 1: another starving one, was the Pacific for HBO.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was really good.
Speaker 1: It was very intense and we were all starving ourselves,
Speaker 1: supposed to be starving. Yeah, yeah, and it was it
Speaker 1: felt like it's a very serious subject. We were being
Speaker 1: watched by actual marines, some of whom were cycled back
Speaker 1: to Iraq at the time, and that for them, the
Speaker 1: Pacific theater was like there their lord of the rings.
Speaker 1: I suppose. Wow, And so you felt a great responsibility
Speaker 1: to not ham your way through it.
Speaker 2: Absolutely absolutely, And so it.
Speaker 1: Felt and we didn't have you know, you didn't the
Speaker 1: mentality about it was anyone who used a set chair
Speaker 1: or who who who you indulged in any of the
Speaker 1: creature comforts, who didn't who didn't participate in the push
Speaker 1: up contests or the stupid you do. It just felt
Speaker 1: like it felt like a real not a real job.
Speaker 1: But it felt like it didn't feel like you were
Speaker 1: the spoiled actor on set and everybody else was you know, lifted,
Speaker 1: you lifted your weapon, you lifted your your machine gun emplacement.
Speaker 2: Wow, incredible. I mean, what an amazing job to be
Speaker 2: a part of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fantastic. I mean that's what we all want, right,
Speaker 2: something that's like bigger than us, that you're just lucky
Speaker 2: to be a part of.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wish they did, you know, boot camp for
Speaker 1: romantic comedies.
Speaker 2: And stuff that would be interesting and funny. I mean,
Speaker 2: first of all, we'd have to get someone to make
Speaker 2: some romantic comedies, which right now really no one's doing. Sadly,
Speaker 2: I think sadly though I don't know. I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't know if you've seen I don't know if you
Speaker 2: watch TV, but have you seen Heated Rivalry?
Speaker 1: No, but I've certainly heard about it.
Speaker 2: The thing that I love about it, I love many
Speaker 2: things about it, but one thing that I love about it,
Speaker 2: and this I think is for me as an actor,
Speaker 2: as someone who's been part of a romantic comedy for
Speaker 2: a long time, and you know, you watch romantic comedies
Speaker 2: and then kind of go through phases about how they're
Speaker 2: done and how people respond to them, and it seemed
Speaker 2: like for a while, irony seem to be very important
Speaker 2: to comedies, like people couldn't really buy in without it,
Speaker 2: and then like at a certain point there's just kind
Speaker 2: of like people aren't going to buy in at all, right,
Speaker 2: Like so no one's going to make them, which is
Speaker 2: really sad. Of course he did. Rivalry about two closeted
Speaker 2: hockey players, has the most powerful romantic comedy payoff at
Speaker 2: the final episode or right, it's not even the final episode,
Speaker 2: it's the fifth episode. It's a sixth episode thing. The
Speaker 2: fifth episode, I think there's a payoff, Like it's such
Speaker 2: a kind of almost textbook romantic comedy type of a
Speaker 2: scene that if it weren't closeted hockey players, I don't
Speaker 2: know if audiences could really like buy in and have
Speaker 2: the full experience of what it is. Like is so
Speaker 2: beautifully done the way they lead up to it, they
Speaker 2: editing the writing, all the different parts, you know, the
Speaker 2: different characters are interconnected in this scene. It's so beautifully
Speaker 2: crafted that it makes me want to watch the whole
Speaker 2: thing all over again, just for the craft.
Speaker 1: Aft of that place.
Speaker 2: Yes, and having it actually work like it's kind of
Speaker 2: blows my mind still just thinking about it, but it
Speaker 2: makes me think about you know, like Jacob Tierney, the showrunner,
Speaker 2: he should be teaching a romantic comedy boot camp, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, because he knows what he's doing,
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying that other people don't obviously, you know,
Speaker 2: we I think we did a fantastic job of a
Speaker 2: very long term, you know, romantic comedy TV show, which
Speaker 2: is kind of unheard of, right because it's it's not
Speaker 2: a sitcom. It's not you know, like you had a
Speaker 2: sitcom class, which is also like a very specific art form, right,
Speaker 2: but like also weird to have a class of it.
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's all very weird.
Speaker 1: But they didn't teach us. The thing is, they didn't
Speaker 1: teach us. It's not like they taught a sitcom style acting.
Speaker 1: Oh no, just like it began with the Honeymooners and
Speaker 1: then it moved on to Wow, the Swiss Family, Robinson
Speaker 1: or whatever. It was bizarre.
Speaker 2: That is bizarre, I mean because sitcom acting is hard
Speaker 2: in its own way, right, because you've got an audience,
Speaker 2: you've got like a set behind you. You have to
Speaker 2: kind of like it's like your theater because you can't
Speaker 2: you know, you don't want to upstage yourself. But yet
Speaker 2: you also have to make it seem natural and tell
Speaker 2: the jokes. I mean obviously very we're having like hardcore
Speaker 2: actor talk now, But like if someone really taught that,
Speaker 2: I think that would be interesting. You know, though I
Speaker 2: don't know how many sitcom.
Speaker 1: Four camera stuff is very bizarre.
Speaker 2: It is very bizarre, I agree, and hard. I find
Speaker 2: it really hard to do. There was a certain point
Speaker 2: of the show where I thought, you know, I want
Speaker 2: to go on some sitcoms because people would talk to
Speaker 2: me about like, oh, you know, we should develop a
Speaker 2: sitcom for you when the show was over, when Sex
Speaker 2: and City's over. But I was like, oh, I'm scared.
Speaker 2: I'm scared. I don't know about that. So at one
Speaker 2: point I went on Friends as a guest star. I
Speaker 2: went on Will and Grace as a guest star. It
Speaker 2: was really really fun, but still very terrifying, Like you'd
Speaker 2: walk out and they'd all clap, like like a Broadway
Speaker 2: where you just have to like somehow hold Oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate that on Broadway.
Speaker 3: It's so hard.
Speaker 1: I hate that on broad right. I mean, it's really
Speaker 1: who it is. It's just you're totally destroying the realities.
Speaker 2: I agree, and I think the audience means it as
Speaker 2: a positive thing, right, But as an actor, like, it's
Speaker 2: very strange.
Speaker 1: Nine hundred dollars to see Denzel Washington. You want to
Speaker 1: make sure that like yep, and get my money.
Speaker 2: And I think people genuinely love Denzel Washington, right or
Speaker 2: whoever it is, right, so they want to they have
Speaker 2: a moment where they're like live with them basically, right,
Speaker 2: which is the joy of theater, of course, So they're like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to show him right in this moment, I'm
Speaker 2: going to clap really hard. But then as an actor.
Speaker 2: You're just trying to breathe and like stay still or whatever.
Speaker 2: Like it's really strange. It's really really strange.
Speaker 1: And you came on. They clapped when you came on,
Speaker 1: they did you must also feel like I haven't earned
Speaker 1: you don't know, yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes. It's very weird, right because it's not
Speaker 2: for the part that you're doing. It's just for your
Speaker 2: general you know, being or whatever, like Sex and the City.
Speaker 2: But yet you're on Friends or you're on Will and Grace.
Speaker 2: It was very strange and mortifying, like like I felt
Speaker 2: so like egg was just running down my face, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, Like I felt so embarrassed. But
Speaker 2: everyone's always super, you know, like James Burrows was directing
Speaker 2: Will and Grace, who's like a great you know great
Speaker 2: Like if you ever want to be on a sitcom
Speaker 2: down and say, come with James Borrow's directing, he will
Speaker 2: take care of you. And he was like, just breathe,
Speaker 2: just breathe, just breathe and hold, don't don't ruin the
Speaker 2: next laugh, don't keep going because my inner anxiety would
Speaker 2: be like I'm just gonna push through. I'm just gonna
Speaker 2: keep going, which you kind of can't. You gotta wait,
Speaker 2: you gotta wait. Yeah, it's super interesting. Acting is weird.
Speaker 2: Don't you think.
Speaker 1: I think it's weird?
Speaker 2: No, really interesting. Okay, you know what.
Speaker 1: I think is weird. This is what I think is weird.
Speaker 1: I think it's I'm very I've been very nervous about
Speaker 1: this whole thing.
Speaker 2: I have to tell you what being on my podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, being any in any anytime I've done a red
Speaker 1: carpet interview or any interview anywhere, I'm incredibly self conscious
Speaker 1: about it. I find I find it interesting that we
Speaker 1: live in this world where the people who have found
Speaker 1: a purpose in pretending to be anybody other than themselves
Speaker 1: are expected somehow to be happy and most joyous when
Speaker 1: everyone's paying attention to them as they are so true.
Speaker 1: I'm not. I've never been. I think there's species of actors,
Speaker 1: or there's species of you know, and I'm not. I've
Speaker 1: really gotten a lot of respect for Robert de Niro
Speaker 1: just as a as a public person, because people criticize
Speaker 1: him for being a terrible interview But I I'm like,
Speaker 1: he's not a personality, right, He's a guy like he's
Speaker 1: and that's you're not, that's not what's interesting to I'm
Speaker 1: sure he's a fascinating person.
Speaker 2: When he's definitely fascinating, I.
Speaker 1: Don't want, I don't care about like it's even saying
Speaker 1: this right now, it's terrifying to me. I'm going to
Speaker 1: regret it immediately.
Speaker 2: No, No, you're great. Oh my god, Please don't regret it.
Speaker 2: Please don't regret it. So this is what I want
Speaker 2: to say.
Speaker 1: I look going to regret the whole thing. Oh, thank god,
Speaker 1: I'm going to regret. I'm going to know.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna No, don't regret it, because I completely understand
Speaker 2: what you're saying.
Speaker 1: I'm looking at an empty glass. There's nothing here.
Speaker 2: I love it. Just pretend to drink it. Okay, you're acting.
Speaker 2: Go ahead. So this is what I think is so great.
Speaker 2: I think that there is a general misconception that somehow
Speaker 2: actors all want to do stuff like this, right We
Speaker 2: all want to do red carpet interviews. We all want
Speaker 2: to be on talk shows, we all want to be
Speaker 2: talking and the center.
Speaker 1: I thought that's what I wanted when I started to
Speaker 1: you know, I think, I don't know. I think a
Speaker 1: lot of my friends, you know, a lot of people,
Speaker 1: there's something that makes you want to put yourself in
Speaker 1: a position where the world adores you. There's some kind
Speaker 1: of basic lack there, whole need. And I think what
Speaker 1: happened to me very early on in the business from
Speaker 1: what I witnessed, is that being famous does not absolve
Speaker 1: you of being an asshole and it does not actually
Speaker 1: make you immortal. So what why you know? And it's yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's one of and those those those delusions kind
Speaker 1: of crumble.
Speaker 2: Right, I think that's really correat.
Speaker 1: Then you start coveting fame just because you realize, oh,
Speaker 1: this is currency, and that's works more if I have more.
Speaker 2: Of this absolutely, which is very real. That's very real.
Speaker 2: It's unfortunate, but it's very real. Like it's not talent,
Speaker 2: it's the currency of being well known or being your
Speaker 2: last project or whatever it is.
Speaker 1: And I think just more just being you know, we
Speaker 1: live in this time now and social media and whatever
Speaker 1: the kids are into these days. Those yes, they are
Speaker 1: getting TV shows, they are getting represented by huge agencies.
Speaker 1: People who watch video games online and comment on them,
Speaker 1: and that's how they make their millions. That's what. Yeah,
Speaker 1: isn't that That guy pewdie Pine, that's what he did.
Speaker 2: I don't know who you're talking about, but I believe you.
Speaker 1: I barely. I saw some daily on him or something.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, he's made like hundreds of millions of
Speaker 1: like millions, and he started he's just a guy from
Speaker 1: Norway or something commenting on.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's fully bonkers out there, okay.
Speaker 1: Momenting on video games, and that's how he.
Speaker 2: Well, this is what I think about that. I think that, yes,
Speaker 2: the world is nuts, and we're living through this humongous
Speaker 2: change with AI and all the things, and I think
Speaker 2: that we as actors just have to remain calm, like,
Speaker 2: remain grounded, try to protect ourselves and keep doing what
Speaker 2: we do because I have to believe that in the end,
Speaker 2: people are going to be attracted to actual real storytelling,
Speaker 2: you know, which is what that's actually what we do,
Speaker 2: that's what we want to do.
Speaker 1: I agree with you, right, I agree with you. I
Speaker 1: think the question might be will they be able to
Speaker 1: tell the difference?
Speaker 2: I think so. See, I personally think so, because I
Speaker 2: do not think. I mean, I just feel like I
Speaker 2: also just have to be hopeful, because what's the point
Speaker 2: of not you know, I can't get my mind around
Speaker 2: the fact that this be true. But like I don't
Speaker 2: see how like you know how for instance, Okay, let's
Speaker 2: think about you in this part, right, You're like a kid.
Speaker 2: You're a kid, and you are bold and out there
Speaker 2: and surprising, and I don't even know what you're going
Speaker 2: to do next when I'm watching it, which is partly
Speaker 2: why I wanted to talk to you today. And you
Speaker 2: are not disappointing. I want to add as yourself. So
Speaker 2: how could AI replicate a human and then surprise us?
Speaker 2: I don't think it could happen, do you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. I haven't seen it happen yet. I don't
Speaker 2: think it could happen.
Speaker 1: I get I suppose, but then don't There are actors.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have. I have them who I who
Speaker 1: are and this is petty, yes, but I who star
Speaker 1: in movies and I'm not going to name them, but
Speaker 1: I see them and I know every single movement they're
Speaker 1: gonna make before you do it. I know you're saying
Speaker 1: everything they're gonna do.
Speaker 2: That's true, that's true. That's a valid point. That's a
Speaker 2: valid point. But I also feel like, you know, until
Speaker 2: we see a successful, you know, show written by AI
Speaker 2: which hasn't happened, right, Like, we're about to see a
Speaker 2: bunch of shows about AI writing, right, Like the Comeback
Speaker 2: is going to be coming back. The Comeback is coming
Speaker 2: back on HBO, and it's going to be about the
Speaker 2: first sitcom written by AI, which I think is going
Speaker 2: to be prettyunny because it's Michael Patrick and Lisa Kujo.
Speaker 2: But I still am not convinced everything that I have
Speaker 2: seen and or read, Like, my daughter's fourteen, she's in school,
Speaker 2: and there's a whole thing about you know, whether they've
Speaker 2: used AI for their homework, right, it's like a whole situation.
Speaker 1: You read the anxious generation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no joke, they are the anti anxious generation. It's
Speaker 2: for real. Oh it's scary. Yeah, it's scary.
Speaker 1: Is your daughter's stat I'm not going to pry into
Speaker 1: your daughter's life?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Probably not. I shouldn't even bring her up, but
Speaker 2: it's hard not to because of everything that we're talking about.
Speaker 2: For the young people, we we remember life before, right,
Speaker 2: thank god, you know, they don't really have a life
Speaker 2: before all this stuff, Like it's it's kind of kind
Speaker 2: of kouka.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, there's people in.
Speaker 2: My personal life, yes, younger people.
Speaker 1: Younger people.
Speaker 2: Who who are they there? Are they in the room?
Speaker 1: Always there?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: They they The concept of when I first met these
Speaker 1: younger people, the concept of not contacting somebody, well, like
Speaker 1: letting contact go for eight hours with no contact in
Speaker 1: terms of like, well, I didn't know what you were doing.
Speaker 1: I didn't know where you were. I didn't know from
Speaker 1: the from the nineties.
Speaker 2: That's why we were from the analog world. It is true.
Speaker 1: You don't have to give a report every It's true.
Speaker 2: But that person just loves you and wants to know
Speaker 2: where you are and wants to feel that connection. I
Speaker 2: can I could tell what that person's thinking. It's sweet.
Speaker 1: You'd be the first one.
Speaker 2: I love it. Okay, wait, I had more questions, but
Speaker 2: you're just too interesting and we're so off on AI.
Speaker 2: But like, I mean, wow, I'm so happy that you
Speaker 2: talk to us, because first of all, you're like one
Speaker 2: of those mystery people who are just on our show
Speaker 2: once and then they go away. And that's who my podcast.
Speaker 2: People love it when I can find you guys like
Speaker 2: and all of you are looking fascinating. Okay. I have
Speaker 2: to give a lot of credit to Jennifer McNamara, our
Speaker 2: casting agent. I mean, man did she find some great
Speaker 2: people like yourself. Incredible.
Speaker 1: Good for her, yeah.
Speaker 2: And God for you for being like like having these crazy,
Speaker 2: wild ambitions to be James Dean, I fucking love it.
Speaker 1: Who is your guy or go Meryll?
Speaker 2: Meryll? I mean, there's nobody but Meryl for us, you know, really,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Like, who could ever? I
Speaker 2: don't know. Yeah, I mean there are other people like
Speaker 2: I always loved Holly Hunter, Oh sure, yeah, because she's
Speaker 2: Southern and I'm Southern, so I like that. I mean,
Speaker 2: there's so many great ones. But when I was really young,
Speaker 2: it was Meryll, like the French lieutenant's wife, you know,
Speaker 2: like that kind of like mysterious Meryll.
Speaker 1: I think all Ironweed is is that scene where she
Speaker 1: sings He's my power.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. Whenever she sings incredible, it's incredible. You know,
Speaker 2: she's on murder Murders in the buildings, only murders in
Speaker 2: the buildings.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: If you watch this show, and there's an episode in
Speaker 2: it early on she plays an actress, a kind of
Speaker 2: unemployed actress when we first meet her, who's just lived
Speaker 2: her whole life in this kind of tiny apartment and
Speaker 2: you know, has so much talent, but it hasn't worked
Speaker 2: out for her. And then she gets apart, which is great,
Speaker 2: but she has an episode where she sings I mean
Speaker 2: only murders in the building, making me cry, you know,
Speaker 2: like just bam because she's Meryl. You know it's magic,
Speaker 2: it's magic. But yeah, I mean, you know, we can
Speaker 2: the fun thing. It's fun to remember the life that
Speaker 2: we used to live, right like the purity that we
Speaker 2: experienced in the analog world. But you know what I love.
Speaker 2: I love also that we're still here. We're still cranking along.
Speaker 2: We were bringing our memories with us right into the
Speaker 2: into the future. And it's really really nice to talk
Speaker 2: to you. And I appreciate you overcoming your your your
Speaker 2: your fears or whatever to come on because wow, fantastic episode.
Speaker 1: Okay, well ok, yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're super interesting. I could continue to
Speaker 2: talk to you, but I know we promised you that
Speaker 2: I wouldn't keep very long because you didn't want me to.
Speaker 2: But wow, you know, I wish you had more memories
Speaker 2: about how your acting class friends responded. But maybe you're
Speaker 2: just maybe maybe they've gone with time, or maybe maybe
Speaker 2: they didn't.
Speaker 1: Oh it's a while in the rear view. Yeah, if
Speaker 1: Stacy and Scott san Clemente are listening out there.
Speaker 2: Hi, I love it, I love it, I love it.
Speaker 2: It's fun. Thank you, Thank you so much, Jacob. You're
Speaker 2: very very interesting. I'm gonna have to follow and watch
Speaker 2: everything you do.
Speaker 1: Now I barely do anything.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think that'll last long. I'll hire you,
Speaker 2: all right, Okay, great, have a great day. Okay.
Speaker 3: Bye,