Speaker 1: We now go to a special fireside chat with the
Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen and Peggy Collins that came out
Speaker 1: this morning third quarter GDP showing a robust four point
Speaker 1: nine percent growth rate a pace in the third quarter.
Speaker 1: When you look at those figures, do you think we've
Speaker 1: likely avoided a recession or do you think it's too
Speaker 1: good to be true because inflation is still so high.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a good, strong number, and it shows an
Speaker 2: economy that's doing very well. Let's remember it is just
Speaker 2: one quarter's number, and I'm not expecting a growth at
Speaker 2: that pace to continue. But we do have good, solid growth.
Speaker 2: You know, probably the year will come in close to
Speaker 2: two and a half. I wouldn't be surprised if we
Speaker 2: see that we have solid job creation, a low unemployment rate,
Speaker 2: increased engagement in the labor force. Labor force participation is strong,
Speaker 2: more people want to work, and inflation's coming down, and
Speaker 2: you don't really see any sign of recession here. I
Speaker 2: have to say I've been saying for a long time
Speaker 2: that I believed there was a path to bring inflation
Speaker 2: down in the context of a strong labor market. Frankly,
Speaker 2: it's only it's about a year ago, since I believe
Speaker 2: a Bloomberg model predicted that by October of twenty twenty three. Now,
Speaker 2: namely that you saw at the odds of recession at
Speaker 2: one hundred percent, I don't think we have that. You know,
Speaker 2: what we have looks like is soft landing with very
Speaker 2: good outcomes for the US economy. So I think there's
Speaker 2: a lot to be pleased about. And you see good
Speaker 2: strong consumer spending. Consumers still have substantial wealth, it's a
Speaker 2: substantial since the pandemic.
Speaker 3: I think it's supporting.
Speaker 2: Good strong spending and the economy is doing well, and
Speaker 2: I think US growth is making a contribution to stronger
Speaker 2: global outcomes as well.
Speaker 1: So you just pointed to a number of things that
Speaker 1: are positive about the US economy. But we've done a
Speaker 1: lot of reporting in recent months that here at Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: who sent reporters out all across the country, and what
Speaker 1: we're hearing from people on the ground is that when
Speaker 1: you ask them about their personal finances, they feel pretty
Speaker 1: good for a lot of the reasons you just mentioned,
Speaker 1: the labor market, their ability as consumers to spend. But
Speaker 1: when you ask about the direction of the US economy,
Speaker 1: the sentiment is much more downbeat. So what can you
Speaker 1: do to close the gap on the positive side in
Speaker 1: terms of how people feel about the US economy, especially
Speaker 1: as we head into an election year.
Speaker 2: So I think Americans have been through a lot with
Speaker 2: the pandemic and the lockdown for almost two years, period
Speaker 2: of high inflation, and.
Speaker 3: As you say, they do seem to.
Speaker 2: Feel good about their own personal finances. Surveys of job
Speaker 2: satisfaction suggests people feel good about their work too. We've
Speaker 2: rarely seen higher numbers on job satisfaction, but they seem
Speaker 2: very worried about the economy and that things are not
Speaker 2: doing well. You know, the US economy has suffered from
Speaker 2: structural problems from a very long time. For a very
Speaker 2: long time, a significant share of the population, particularly those
Speaker 2: who haven't had a college education, who have really not
Speaker 2: seen meaningful growth in their real income and have seen
Speaker 2: a decline in job opportunities over really approaching fifty years.
Speaker 2: And I think what America need to know is that
Speaker 2: the Biden Harris administration is really decisively changing that we
Speaker 2: are investing in America. We have passed three a trifecta
Speaker 2: of legislation that people will increasingly see who've been suffering
Speaker 2: from a shortage of job opportunities. I think they're really
Speaker 2: going to see things change. First of all, we're spending
Speaker 2: an enormous amount to repair America's infrastructure, and increasingly people
Speaker 2: are going to see their roads that they get hung
Speaker 2: up on every day. It's hard to commute with potholes everywhere.
Speaker 2: It's going to be fixed, Bridges are going to be improved,
Speaker 2: airports people are going to Within the next several years,
Speaker 2: virtually every American will have access to good, good internet,
Speaker 2: so improving digital economy. And we've seen an enormous set
Speaker 2: of investments announced in response, largely to the Chips and
Speaker 2: Semiconductors Act and to the Inflation Reduction Act in clean energy,
Speaker 2: and jobs are being created. What we see in this
Speaker 2: past year is that a disproportionate share of the jobs
Speaker 2: that are being created are in communities that have had
Speaker 2: less economic opportunity, communities with below average incomes and with
Speaker 2: a blow average share of people who have a college education.
Speaker 2: So this means that opportunity will increasingly come to people
Speaker 2: who really haven't in a sense, gotten a fair shake
Speaker 2: over the last fifty years as they've seen jobs disappear.
Speaker 2: And you know, President Biden and Vice President Harris, and
Speaker 2: I really believe that you ought to have access to
Speaker 2: a good job, even if you don't have a college education.
Speaker 3: And increasingly I think.
Speaker 2: People will see that good opportunities are being created. Certainly,
Speaker 2: the President is trying to go out and explain to
Speaker 2: people what this longer term, medium term agenda. He would say,
Speaker 2: it's a matter of growing the economy from the bottom up,
Speaker 2: in the middle out. What we've had is too much
Speaker 2: of trying to grow the economy to trickle down, from
Speaker 2: going with gains, going to the top with a hope
Speaker 2: that it will trickle down.
Speaker 3: And I think we're beginning to.
Speaker 2: See the fruits of these investments begin beginning to pay off.
Speaker 2: So I think Americans have a lot to look forward
Speaker 2: to and beginning to see this in their daily lives.
Speaker 1: So we were just talking about americans perception of the economy.
Speaker 1: But another thing we follow closely here at Bloomberg globally
Speaker 1: is investors perception of the economy. So I want to
Speaker 1: ask you a little bit about the rise in yields
Speaker 1: that we've seen. We've seen yield surging over the last
Speaker 1: few weeks. The ten year treasury rose above five percent
Speaker 1: earlier this week. What's your view on what is driving
Speaker 1: that surgeon yields and how much of it is connected
Speaker 1: to investors' concerns about the US deficit.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't think much of it is connected to that.
Speaker 2: This is a global phenomenon in advanced countries. We're seeing
Speaker 2: yields go up in most advanced countries of the world,
Speaker 2: and largely I think it's a reflection of the resilience
Speaker 2: that people are seeing in the US economy. That we're
Speaker 2: not having a recession, that consumer spending and demand continue
Speaker 2: to be strong, The economy is con continuing to show
Speaker 2: tremendous robustness, and that suggests that interest rates are likely
Speaker 2: to stay higher for longer, and so part of the
Speaker 2: increase in yields I think is simply a reflection of
Speaker 2: the strength of the economy, the notion that interest rates
Speaker 2: will be higher for longer. Now, whether or not that's
Speaker 2: really true if we look at five or ten years,
Speaker 2: what are interest rates likely to do? Honestly, for a
Speaker 2: very long time, we've felt that interest rates over decades
Speaker 2: had been coming down real interest rates, and that there
Speaker 2: were deep structural reasons for that, in part relating to
Speaker 2: demographics and those underlying trends. They're still there, they're still
Speaker 2: in force. So I think it's perfectly possible that we
Speaker 2: will see longer term yields come down, but nobody really
Speaker 2: knows for sure. But I see the higher yields as
Speaker 2: certainly importantly a reflection of a stronger economy.
Speaker 1: So when you think about the deficit, I think one
Speaker 1: of your preferred metrics for assessing US fiscal stability is
Speaker 1: to look at the net interest outlay as adjusted relation.
Speaker 1: And right now, I think you've said that those levels
Speaker 1: seem good to you, but there are.
Speaker 2: In real terms. It's about one percent a little bit
Speaker 2: under that.
Speaker 1: So that's helpful in terms of kind of the next
Speaker 1: figure I was going to mention is several economists out
Speaker 1: there are forecasting that that figure by twenty thirty could
Speaker 1: be well north of two percent. So at that level,
Speaker 1: would you be alarmed In terms of the sustained fiscal sustainability.
Speaker 2: Let me just say fiscal sustainability is really critical, and
Speaker 2: President Biden is admitted to putting forward a fiscal plan
Speaker 2: that shows fiscal sustainability. And uncertainty about interest rates. Interest
Speaker 2: rates do influence what the path of that real net
Speaker 2: interest is going to be there's a bigger challenge if
Speaker 2: the interest rate path stays higher. President Biden has already
Speaker 2: supported deficit reduction measures in the Pact, raising the debt
Speaker 2: ceiling and other legislation. In the Inflation Reduction Act, there's
Speaker 2: a trillion dollars of deficit reduction, and he proposed a
Speaker 2: budget that both invests in America, continues to do that,
Speaker 2: and also has revenue raising measures that would result in
Speaker 2: another two and a half million dollars of deficit reduction
Speaker 2: over the next decade. So, yes, we have to put
Speaker 2: forward fiscal plans that will keep the deficit manageable and
Speaker 2: keep this real net interest cost. You know, I would
Speaker 2: say well below two percent. So the higher the interest
Speaker 2: rate path, the more that we need to do.
Speaker 1: I want to take a moment, a Secretary and turn
Speaker 1: to the global outlook. With the Israel Hamas war happening
Speaker 1: in the Middle East, I think there's a concern by
Speaker 1: some that the war could spread or expand to broader
Speaker 1: in the region. I know that that's not your base case,
Speaker 1: but if that was to happen, could you walk us
Speaker 1: through your wrist scenario for what that might mean to
Speaker 1: the global economy?
Speaker 2: So I guess I have to say my focus is
Speaker 2: I look now at what's happening to the Middle East.
Speaker 2: Really is the tragedy, the human tragedy that's taking place
Speaker 2: with the Israelis have suffered, and of course we're worried
Speaker 2: about casualties in Gaza as Israel, you know, pursues its
Speaker 2: war against Tomas, and so it's really the human suffering
Speaker 2: that I think should be our focus in countering terrorism.
Speaker 2: We're monitoring the economic consequences carefully. I so far, I
Speaker 2: would say we've not yet seen much that has global consequences.
Speaker 2: Oil prices are largely flat. What could happen if the
Speaker 2: war expands? Of course there could be more meaningful consequences,
Speaker 2: but I think it's premature to speculate against about those,
Speaker 2: and I think our focus should be keeping this contained
Speaker 2: and not spreading so on Hamas.
Speaker 1: I know the Treasury Department has taken further moves in
Speaker 1: the last few weeks to restrict financing to Hamas, and
Speaker 1: your under Secretary, Brian Nelson is actually in the Middle
Speaker 1: East right now. Do you think there's room for further
Speaker 1: restricting or limiting financing to Hamas, And if so, can
Speaker 1: you tell us what might be some of the next steps.
Speaker 2: So I can't comment on any specifics concerning sanctions we
Speaker 2: have not yet put in place, but what I can
Speaker 2: say is we have taken a large number of steps
Speaker 2: just over the last year to put in place sanctions
Speaker 2: to try to reduce the avenues for financing of Hamas,
Speaker 2: and in the after math of this attack last week,
Speaker 2: we put additional sanctions in place. My Undersecretary, as you mentioned,
Speaker 2: will be in the Middle East, and Deputy Secretary Ademo
Speaker 2: is leaving tonight for a trip to Europe to also
Speaker 2: discuss working with our allies on sanctions, and we are
Speaker 2: certainly looking at further opportunities we see to try to
Speaker 2: reduce this flow of financing to Himas where all over
Speaker 2: this and are likely to do more.
Speaker 1: So one final question on the Middle East before we
Speaker 1: turn to other topics on Iran, can you help us
Speaker 1: understand are the six billion dollars in Iranian oil proceed
Speaker 1: assets blocked by the US Treasury from access by Iran
Speaker 1: right now as they sit in a Katari account.
Speaker 2: I guess all I can only tell you is that
Speaker 2: not a penny of that money has been touched the
Speaker 2: Trump administration agreed to allow Iran to sell oil, and
Speaker 2: the sales were largely to Korea, and the proceeds were
Speaker 2: held in a Korean bank account and only permitted to
Speaker 2: be used for humanitarian purposes, without any direct funding ever
Speaker 2: going to Iran, and those proceeds were moved from Koreer to.
Speaker 3: Kitar. They still sit there.
Speaker 2: They can only be used for humanitarian purposes.
Speaker 3: They have not been used.
Speaker 2: And I don't feel comfortable saying more about diplomatic conversations
Speaker 2: that are taking place, but Iran has not touched those phones.
Speaker 1: We just as mentioned diplomacy, and so much of your
Speaker 1: role as secretary has been actually traveling around the world.
Speaker 1: We often think of the Treasury Department as so domestic,
Speaker 1: but so much of what you've done is international, and
Speaker 1: you're seen as a liberal economist.
Speaker 3: Supportive of free trade.
Speaker 1: I wondered your thoughts on how concerned are you that
Speaker 1: some of the Biden policies may be sealing a mistrust
Speaker 1: of globalization that was ramped up in the Trump administration,
Speaker 1: and whether that's actually good for the US economy.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's a great question.
Speaker 2: I've talked about it concept I call friendsuring, So I
Speaker 2: think it's a consequence partly of the pandemic and partly
Speaker 2: Russia's invasion of Ukraine. We've come to the realization that
Speaker 2: our supply chains, America's supply chains are not secure, and
Speaker 2: in some cases we are overly dependent on countries like China,
Speaker 2: and what we need to do is to take steps
Speaker 2: as a country to reduce our vulnerability and to diversify
Speaker 2: our supply chains. And to some extent that involves reassuring
Speaker 2: things to the United States and doing more here, and
Speaker 2: certainly in the area of clean energy. The inflation reduction
Speaker 2: act as incentives to do more in the United States,
Speaker 2: and the desire there in part is to create good
Speaker 2: jobs in industries that are likely to be drivers of
Speaker 2: future growth, whether it's semiconductors or clean energy. But we
Speaker 2: don't want to forego the benefits of globalization and trade,
Speaker 2: and so the idea Year of Friendsharing is that we
Speaker 2: want to be able to rely on a broader set
Speaker 2: of countries to do trade and investment, to deepen our
Speaker 2: trade and investment relationships with countries that we feel are trustworthy,
Speaker 2: that can be reliable parts of a global supply chain
Speaker 2: that we.
Speaker 3: Take part in.
Speaker 2: And part of what I've been doing is traveling around
Speaker 2: the world talking to countries about developing our supply chain relations.
Speaker 2: And of course we're very close partners with Europe, with Canada, Mexico,
Speaker 2: other countries with whom we have free trade areas, but
Speaker 2: many more countries. We're deepening our relationships with India, with Vietnam,
Speaker 2: so we want this to be broad. We understand that
Speaker 2: the international division of labor, with countries taking advantage of
Speaker 2: the benefits of parative advantage, doing what you're most efficient at,
Speaker 2: relatively efficient at that this is a great set of
Speaker 2: benefits both for the United States and also countries that
Speaker 2: are given the opportunity to trade and that contributes to
Speaker 2: their growth.
Speaker 3: So we don't want to.
Speaker 2: Forego that, and we do want to maintain the benefits
Speaker 2: of globalization, but without the vulnerability that comes from a
Speaker 2: undue reliance on a few countries that may restrict trade
Speaker 2: for political or other reasons.
Speaker 1: So you mentioned broadening our network of friends that we
Speaker 1: can have partnerships with, but also China. I know you
Speaker 1: took a trip to China and to Beijing this summer.
Speaker 1: You've been talking about how our policy should really be
Speaker 1: around de risking or diversifying rather than decoupling. But what
Speaker 1: do you think is the current state so that do
Speaker 1: you think the Chinese have adopted that and feel like
Speaker 1: they can trust us on that front, or do you
Speaker 1: think they still really think that we're in a competition
Speaker 1: with them first and foremost.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, we've articulated a strategy. As you said,
Speaker 2: it involves de risking in some areas where we're overly
Speaker 2: dependent on China, and clean energy is a good example.
Speaker 2: We also intend to focus on national security. That's an
Speaker 2: area that we're not willing to compromise on, and so
Speaker 2: we do have export controls.
Speaker 3: We continue to review them.
Speaker 2: We're working on a set of restrictions on outbound investment
Speaker 2: to China. We've discussed this with them and put out
Speaker 2: a proposal that's in the public domain.
Speaker 3: I think comments just closed on it.
Speaker 2: But our objective there is to target what we do
Speaker 2: as narrowly as possible so that it really focuses on
Speaker 2: national security, that it is not an intention in that
Speaker 2: to harm the prospects of Chinese economic development and the
Speaker 2: welfare of the Chinese people. So we intend to have
Speaker 2: healthy competition and mutually beneficial trade and investment with China
Speaker 2: in many areas. I've tried to make this clear. And
Speaker 2: then importantly, the third prong of it is we need
Speaker 2: to work together on global problems. Debt relief is one
Speaker 2: of those problems. Climate changes another, but there are many examples.
Speaker 2: So that's what we're trying to do in terms of
Speaker 2: our strategy. You know, President Biden and President she met
Speaker 2: in Bali. I guess it's just over a year ago.
Speaker 2: At that meeting, In more or less to over two years,
Speaker 2: almost no senior level contact had taken place during the
Speaker 2: pandemic between China and the United States, and I think
Speaker 2: that was a dangerous situation. And especially when there are disagreements,
Speaker 2: it's actually important to be able to discuss them, to
Speaker 2: talk through to see the other country's point of view,
Speaker 2: and to discuss areas where you're not in sync.
Speaker 3: And it was recognized by.
Speaker 2: Both sides that we needed to talk more to deepen
Speaker 2: our discussions, exchange of information, and particularly in economic areas
Speaker 2: macroeconomic performance, financial markets, where our behavior has spillovers a
Speaker 2: back and forth to one another, and also our decisions
Speaker 2: affect the global outlaw as a whole. And that's what
Speaker 2: I tried to begin in my meetings that I had
Speaker 2: in China, and things have continued very positively from there.
Speaker 2: We've formed two working groups. They report to me and
Speaker 2: my Chinese counterpart of fun. One concerns economic matters, the
Speaker 2: other financial matters. The working groups met earlier this week.
Speaker 2: Both of them met, and we now have a set
Speaker 2: of very constructive and deepening discussions about areas of mutual concern.
Speaker 2: And it's good to have contacts throughout our chain, it
Speaker 2: levels below secretary staff level, discussions and channels of communication
Speaker 2: where when the problem arises, each side can pay up
Speaker 2: the phone and discuss it before it rises to the
Speaker 2: level of a real, really serious disagreement. So I think
Speaker 2: this agenda is working. We certainly will continue to deepen
Speaker 2: our economic relationship and discussions, and I'm feeling very good
Speaker 2: about how things are going there.
Speaker 1: Turning back to the US Secretary Yellen, you've described the
Speaker 1: Biden administration's economic policies as something you referred to as
Speaker 1: modern supply side economics, and with those policies, they're aiming
Speaker 1: to increase the productive.
Speaker 3: Capacity in the US. That's right, that's a pretty good
Speaker 3: big goal.
Speaker 1: So can you talk to me a little bit about
Speaker 1: how long do you think it's going to take for
Speaker 1: some of those policies to become entrenched enough that they
Speaker 1: stick and have a real impact on people. And the
Speaker 1: reason I'm asking is because I'm looking ahead to next year.
Speaker 1: The election is coming up. What's at stake if the
Speaker 1: Democrats don't retain the White House in terms of the
Speaker 1: ability for some of those policies to take hold.
Speaker 2: So, yes, modern supply side economics, it's in part of
Speaker 2: growth strategy, and this is something Republicans and Democrats I
Speaker 2: think share a desire to see real wages and incomes increase,
Speaker 2: to see economic welfare for the broad set of Americans
Speaker 2: to improve over time, and an economic growth or quote
Speaker 2: supply side strategy. This isn't a matter of demand management.
Speaker 2: It's a matter of improving our economy's ability to produce
Speaker 2: goods and services over the medium to long term. I
Speaker 2: think agree on that it's widely accepted. The Republican strategy
Speaker 2: has been, as I said, largely a trickle down strategy
Speaker 2: of giving tax breaks or deregulation to the rich and
Speaker 2: corporations in the expectation or hope that benefits would trickle down.
Speaker 2: More broadly, I see that as a failed strategy and
Speaker 2: one that has really not been successful. It creating broad
Speaker 2: shared prosperity. And I see modern supply side economics as
Speaker 2: having the same objective but proceeding in a different way.
Speaker 2: And there are many factors that our inputs into growth
Speaker 2: besides private investment. For too long, we ignored infrastructure. So
Speaker 2: investing in America's infrastructure as a return produces.
Speaker 3: Benefits R and D.
Speaker 2: We're now really, after having decades in which US spending
Speaker 2: on research and development, certainly at the federal level, had
Speaker 2: fallen to very low levels, we're no longer one of
Speaker 2: the leading countries in terms of the resources we devote
Speaker 2: to R and D. That we've stepped that up substantially
Speaker 2: in the legislation that's been passed. And what we want
Speaker 2: is also growth that's equitable, so addressing inequality. As saying,
Speaker 2: for over fifty years, essentially the median American really saw.
Speaker 3: Very little growth, little or no growth in their real income.
Speaker 3: We want to change that.
Speaker 2: We want to make sure that opportunities are created, especially
Speaker 2: for those who don't have a college education and live
Speaker 2: in places. You know, we've had so much growth on
Speaker 2: the coasts, but many parts of the country geographies that
Speaker 2: it seems progress is passed by. And so if you
Speaker 2: look at the legislation that's been passed and the investment
Speaker 2: plans that have been announced, We've seen over six hundred
Speaker 2: billion dollars in new investments that have been announced. Now,
Speaker 2: it takes a while to get those in place, but
Speaker 2: look at where are those investments occurring. They are occurring
Speaker 2: in parts of the country that have not seen that
Speaker 2: kind of investment. And you know, we're seeing electric vehicle
Speaker 2: production and battery production in many parts of the country
Speaker 2: that have been sorely hurting for good jobs. And so
Speaker 2: it will take a while for Americans to see the
Speaker 2: benefits of this. But even now, I think many Americans
Speaker 2: can see that good jobs are being created in manufacturing,
Speaker 2: which is not done well over decades in the United States.
Speaker 2: So I believe that opportunities will be created and people
Speaker 2: will be able to see that over time in their
Speaker 2: daily lives.
Speaker 1: No matter what secretary, you've been in public service, nearly
Speaker 1: five decades now holding the.
Speaker 3: It's a long time.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of working years. As you show a
Speaker 1: labor economists, I will say that you've held the top
Speaker 1: economic posts you know, across the CEA, FED and now Treasury,
Speaker 1: but you're also known as a technocrat and a policy
Speaker 1: maker rather than a political animal.
Speaker 3: Per se.
Speaker 1: When you look at the divisiveness in Washington, and we've
Speaker 1: just seen the past few weeks even just on Capitol Hill,
Speaker 1: are you concerned that there's less and less room for
Speaker 1: a person like you to come into government in Washington
Speaker 1: and make a notable difference at the highest levels. If
Speaker 1: you're not as politically driven as policy driven.
Speaker 2: You know, I guess I see that we have a
Speaker 2: government that is filled with people who are professional, technically proficient,
Speaker 2: and dedicated to good policy. And we are trying to
Speaker 2: put in place good, sound, technically solid government policy in
Speaker 2: almost everything we do. And in spite of the difficult
Speaker 2: political environment that we're in, President Biden and Vice President
Speaker 2: Harris in the time they have been in office, have
Speaker 2: succeeded in a bipartisan way in having a great deal
Speaker 2: of meaningful legislation passed. The Treasury Department, I spend a
Speaker 2: good share of my time working with very capable people
Speaker 2: in our Tax policy department. We are charged with writing
Speaker 2: all of the rules that are governing of the tax
Speaker 2: incentives in the inflation reduction Act, those that will are
Speaker 2: really creating enormous opportunities in connection with clean energy, and
Speaker 2: we've gotten an allocation of funds to restore the Internal
Speaker 2: Revenue Service, to restore their ability to both serve American
Speaker 2: customers who deserve to have somebody answered the phone when
Speaker 2: you when you call and have been missing that for
Speaker 2: a long time, and also to actually collect the taxes
Speaker 2: that our tax code says people ow. And when you
Speaker 2: think about the fact that over over ten years, the
Speaker 2: tax gap, namely the quantity of tax revenue that's due
Speaker 2: but not paid, is estimated at seven trillion dollars. We're
Speaker 2: in the process of restoring all of that.
Speaker 3: And the people who are doing this.
Speaker 2: Are a largely a civil service that is tremendously competent, professional,
Speaker 2: and dedicated to making the United States function well. So
Speaker 2: I think there's plenty of scope for good policy, and
Speaker 2: I hope we're in the process of doing it in
Speaker 2: spite of some of the what seems like political dysfunction
Speaker 2: in our country.
Speaker 1: Well, Secretary Yllen, thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 1: today and giving us so much of your time and
Speaker 1: sharing your insights.
Speaker 3: It's a true public pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks
Speaker 3: to happening on