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Speaker 1: We now go to a special fireside chat with the

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Speaker 1: Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen and Peggy Collins that came out

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Speaker 1: this morning third quarter GDP showing a robust four point

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Speaker 1: nine percent growth rate a pace in the third quarter.

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Speaker 1: When you look at those figures, do you think we've

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Speaker 1: likely avoided a recession or do you think it's too

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Speaker 1: good to be true because inflation is still so high.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a good, strong number, and it shows an

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Speaker 2: economy that's doing very well. Let's remember it is just

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Speaker 2: one quarter's number, and I'm not expecting a growth at

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Speaker 2: that pace to continue. But we do have good, solid growth.

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Speaker 2: You know, probably the year will come in close to

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Speaker 2: two and a half. I wouldn't be surprised if we

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Speaker 2: see that we have solid job creation, a low unemployment rate,

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Speaker 2: increased engagement in the labor force. Labor force participation is strong,

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Speaker 2: more people want to work, and inflation's coming down, and

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Speaker 2: you don't really see any sign of recession here. I

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Speaker 2: have to say I've been saying for a long time

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Speaker 2: that I believed there was a path to bring inflation

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Speaker 2: down in the context of a strong labor market. Frankly,

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Speaker 2: it's only it's about a year ago, since I believe

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Speaker 2: a Bloomberg model predicted that by October of twenty twenty three. Now,

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Speaker 2: namely that you saw at the odds of recession at

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Speaker 2: one hundred percent, I don't think we have that. You know,

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Speaker 2: what we have looks like is soft landing with very

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Speaker 2: good outcomes for the US economy. So I think there's

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Speaker 2: a lot to be pleased about. And you see good

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Speaker 2: strong consumer spending. Consumers still have substantial wealth, it's a

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Speaker 2: substantial since the pandemic.

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Speaker 3: I think it's supporting.

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Speaker 2: Good strong spending and the economy is doing well, and

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Speaker 2: I think US growth is making a contribution to stronger

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Speaker 2: global outcomes as well.

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Speaker 1: So you just pointed to a number of things that

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Speaker 1: are positive about the US economy. But we've done a

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Speaker 1: lot of reporting in recent months that here at Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: who sent reporters out all across the country, and what

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Speaker 1: we're hearing from people on the ground is that when

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Speaker 1: you ask them about their personal finances, they feel pretty

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Speaker 1: good for a lot of the reasons you just mentioned,

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Speaker 1: the labor market, their ability as consumers to spend. But

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Speaker 1: when you ask about the direction of the US economy,

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Speaker 1: the sentiment is much more downbeat. So what can you

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Speaker 1: do to close the gap on the positive side in

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Speaker 1: terms of how people feel about the US economy, especially

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Speaker 1: as we head into an election year.

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Speaker 2: So I think Americans have been through a lot with

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Speaker 2: the pandemic and the lockdown for almost two years, period

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Speaker 2: of high inflation, and.

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Speaker 3: As you say, they do seem to.

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Speaker 2: Feel good about their own personal finances. Surveys of job

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Speaker 2: satisfaction suggests people feel good about their work too. We've

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Speaker 2: rarely seen higher numbers on job satisfaction, but they seem

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Speaker 2: very worried about the economy and that things are not

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Speaker 2: doing well. You know, the US economy has suffered from

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Speaker 2: structural problems from a very long time. For a very

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Speaker 2: long time, a significant share of the population, particularly those

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Speaker 2: who haven't had a college education, who have really not

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Speaker 2: seen meaningful growth in their real income and have seen

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Speaker 2: a decline in job opportunities over really approaching fifty years.

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Speaker 2: And I think what America need to know is that

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Speaker 2: the Biden Harris administration is really decisively changing that we

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Speaker 2: are investing in America. We have passed three a trifecta

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Speaker 2: of legislation that people will increasingly see who've been suffering

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Speaker 2: from a shortage of job opportunities. I think they're really

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Speaker 2: going to see things change. First of all, we're spending

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Speaker 2: an enormous amount to repair America's infrastructure, and increasingly people

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Speaker 2: are going to see their roads that they get hung

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Speaker 2: up on every day. It's hard to commute with potholes everywhere.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be fixed, Bridges are going to be improved,

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Speaker 2: airports people are going to Within the next several years,

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Speaker 2: virtually every American will have access to good, good internet,

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Speaker 2: so improving digital economy. And we've seen an enormous set

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Speaker 2: of investments announced in response, largely to the Chips and

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Speaker 2: Semiconductors Act and to the Inflation Reduction Act in clean energy,

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Speaker 2: and jobs are being created. What we see in this

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Speaker 2: past year is that a disproportionate share of the jobs

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Speaker 2: that are being created are in communities that have had

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Speaker 2: less economic opportunity, communities with below average incomes and with

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Speaker 2: a blow average share of people who have a college education.

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Speaker 2: So this means that opportunity will increasingly come to people

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Speaker 2: who really haven't in a sense, gotten a fair shake

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Speaker 2: over the last fifty years as they've seen jobs disappear.

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Speaker 2: And you know, President Biden and Vice President Harris, and

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Speaker 2: I really believe that you ought to have access to

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Speaker 2: a good job, even if you don't have a college education.

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Speaker 3: And increasingly I think.

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Speaker 2: People will see that good opportunities are being created. Certainly,

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Speaker 2: the President is trying to go out and explain to

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Speaker 2: people what this longer term, medium term agenda. He would say,

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Speaker 2: it's a matter of growing the economy from the bottom up,

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Speaker 2: in the middle out. What we've had is too much

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Speaker 2: of trying to grow the economy to trickle down, from

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Speaker 2: going with gains, going to the top with a hope

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Speaker 2: that it will trickle down.

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Speaker 3: And I think we're beginning to.

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Speaker 2: See the fruits of these investments begin beginning to pay off.

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Speaker 2: So I think Americans have a lot to look forward

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Speaker 2: to and beginning to see this in their daily lives.

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Speaker 1: So we were just talking about americans perception of the economy.

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Speaker 1: But another thing we follow closely here at Bloomberg globally

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Speaker 1: is investors perception of the economy. So I want to

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Speaker 1: ask you a little bit about the rise in yields

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Speaker 1: that we've seen. We've seen yield surging over the last

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Speaker 1: few weeks. The ten year treasury rose above five percent

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Speaker 1: earlier this week. What's your view on what is driving

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Speaker 1: that surgeon yields and how much of it is connected

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Speaker 1: to investors' concerns about the US deficit.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't think much of it is connected to that.

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Speaker 2: This is a global phenomenon in advanced countries. We're seeing

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Speaker 2: yields go up in most advanced countries of the world,

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Speaker 2: and largely I think it's a reflection of the resilience

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Speaker 2: that people are seeing in the US economy. That we're

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Speaker 2: not having a recession, that consumer spending and demand continue

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Speaker 2: to be strong, The economy is con continuing to show

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Speaker 2: tremendous robustness, and that suggests that interest rates are likely

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Speaker 2: to stay higher for longer, and so part of the

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Speaker 2: increase in yields I think is simply a reflection of

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Speaker 2: the strength of the economy, the notion that interest rates

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Speaker 2: will be higher for longer. Now, whether or not that's

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Speaker 2: really true if we look at five or ten years,

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Speaker 2: what are interest rates likely to do? Honestly, for a

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Speaker 2: very long time, we've felt that interest rates over decades

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Speaker 2: had been coming down real interest rates, and that there

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Speaker 2: were deep structural reasons for that, in part relating to

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Speaker 2: demographics and those underlying trends. They're still there, they're still

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Speaker 2: in force. So I think it's perfectly possible that we

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Speaker 2: will see longer term yields come down, but nobody really

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Speaker 2: knows for sure. But I see the higher yields as

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Speaker 2: certainly importantly a reflection of a stronger economy.

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Speaker 1: So when you think about the deficit, I think one

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Speaker 1: of your preferred metrics for assessing US fiscal stability is

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Speaker 1: to look at the net interest outlay as adjusted relation.

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Speaker 1: And right now, I think you've said that those levels

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Speaker 1: seem good to you, but there are.

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Speaker 2: In real terms. It's about one percent a little bit

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Speaker 2: under that.

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Speaker 1: So that's helpful in terms of kind of the next

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Speaker 1: figure I was going to mention is several economists out

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Speaker 1: there are forecasting that that figure by twenty thirty could

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Speaker 1: be well north of two percent. So at that level,

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Speaker 1: would you be alarmed In terms of the sustained fiscal sustainability.

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Speaker 2: Let me just say fiscal sustainability is really critical, and

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Speaker 2: President Biden is admitted to putting forward a fiscal plan

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Speaker 2: that shows fiscal sustainability. And uncertainty about interest rates. Interest

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Speaker 2: rates do influence what the path of that real net

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Speaker 2: interest is going to be there's a bigger challenge if

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Speaker 2: the interest rate path stays higher. President Biden has already

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Speaker 2: supported deficit reduction measures in the Pact, raising the debt

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Speaker 2: ceiling and other legislation. In the Inflation Reduction Act, there's

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Speaker 2: a trillion dollars of deficit reduction, and he proposed a

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Speaker 2: budget that both invests in America, continues to do that,

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Speaker 2: and also has revenue raising measures that would result in

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Speaker 2: another two and a half million dollars of deficit reduction

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Speaker 2: over the next decade. So, yes, we have to put

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Speaker 2: forward fiscal plans that will keep the deficit manageable and

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Speaker 2: keep this real net interest cost. You know, I would

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Speaker 2: say well below two percent. So the higher the interest

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Speaker 2: rate path, the more that we need to do.

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Speaker 1: I want to take a moment, a Secretary and turn

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Speaker 1: to the global outlook. With the Israel Hamas war happening

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Speaker 1: in the Middle East, I think there's a concern by

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Speaker 1: some that the war could spread or expand to broader

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Speaker 1: in the region. I know that that's not your base case,

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Speaker 1: but if that was to happen, could you walk us

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Speaker 1: through your wrist scenario for what that might mean to

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Speaker 1: the global economy?

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Speaker 2: So I guess I have to say my focus is

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Speaker 2: I look now at what's happening to the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: Really is the tragedy, the human tragedy that's taking place

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Speaker 2: with the Israelis have suffered, and of course we're worried

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Speaker 2: about casualties in Gaza as Israel, you know, pursues its

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Speaker 2: war against Tomas, and so it's really the human suffering

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Speaker 2: that I think should be our focus in countering terrorism.

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Speaker 2: We're monitoring the economic consequences carefully. I so far, I

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Speaker 2: would say we've not yet seen much that has global consequences.

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Speaker 2: Oil prices are largely flat. What could happen if the

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Speaker 2: war expands? Of course there could be more meaningful consequences,

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Speaker 2: but I think it's premature to speculate against about those,

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Speaker 2: and I think our focus should be keeping this contained

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Speaker 2: and not spreading so on Hamas.

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Speaker 1: I know the Treasury Department has taken further moves in

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Speaker 1: the last few weeks to restrict financing to Hamas, and

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Speaker 1: your under Secretary, Brian Nelson is actually in the Middle

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Speaker 1: East right now. Do you think there's room for further

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Speaker 1: restricting or limiting financing to Hamas, And if so, can

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Speaker 1: you tell us what might be some of the next steps.

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Speaker 2: So I can't comment on any specifics concerning sanctions we

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Speaker 2: have not yet put in place, but what I can

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Speaker 2: say is we have taken a large number of steps

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Speaker 2: just over the last year to put in place sanctions

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Speaker 2: to try to reduce the avenues for financing of Hamas,

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Speaker 2: and in the after math of this attack last week,

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Speaker 2: we put additional sanctions in place. My Undersecretary, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: will be in the Middle East, and Deputy Secretary Ademo

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Speaker 2: is leaving tonight for a trip to Europe to also

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Speaker 2: discuss working with our allies on sanctions, and we are

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Speaker 2: certainly looking at further opportunities we see to try to

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Speaker 2: reduce this flow of financing to Himas where all over

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Speaker 2: this and are likely to do more.

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Speaker 1: So one final question on the Middle East before we

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Speaker 1: turn to other topics on Iran, can you help us

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Speaker 1: understand are the six billion dollars in Iranian oil proceed

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Speaker 1: assets blocked by the US Treasury from access by Iran

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Speaker 1: right now as they sit in a Katari account.

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Speaker 2: I guess all I can only tell you is that

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Speaker 2: not a penny of that money has been touched the

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Speaker 2: Trump administration agreed to allow Iran to sell oil, and

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Speaker 2: the sales were largely to Korea, and the proceeds were

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Speaker 2: held in a Korean bank account and only permitted to

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Speaker 2: be used for humanitarian purposes, without any direct funding ever

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Speaker 2: going to Iran, and those proceeds were moved from Koreer to.

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Speaker 3: Kitar. They still sit there.

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Speaker 2: They can only be used for humanitarian purposes.

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Speaker 3: They have not been used.

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Speaker 2: And I don't feel comfortable saying more about diplomatic conversations

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Speaker 2: that are taking place, but Iran has not touched those phones.

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Speaker 1: We just as mentioned diplomacy, and so much of your

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Speaker 1: role as secretary has been actually traveling around the world.

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Speaker 1: We often think of the Treasury Department as so domestic,

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Speaker 1: but so much of what you've done is international, and

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Speaker 1: you're seen as a liberal economist.

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Speaker 3: Supportive of free trade.

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Speaker 1: I wondered your thoughts on how concerned are you that

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Speaker 1: some of the Biden policies may be sealing a mistrust

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Speaker 1: of globalization that was ramped up in the Trump administration,

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Speaker 1: and whether that's actually good for the US economy.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that's a great question.

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Speaker 2: I've talked about it concept I call friendsuring, So I

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Speaker 2: think it's a consequence partly of the pandemic and partly

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Speaker 2: Russia's invasion of Ukraine. We've come to the realization that

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Speaker 2: our supply chains, America's supply chains are not secure, and

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Speaker 2: in some cases we are overly dependent on countries like China,

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Speaker 2: and what we need to do is to take steps

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Speaker 2: as a country to reduce our vulnerability and to diversify

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Speaker 2: our supply chains. And to some extent that involves reassuring

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Speaker 2: things to the United States and doing more here, and

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Speaker 2: certainly in the area of clean energy. The inflation reduction

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Speaker 2: act as incentives to do more in the United States,

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Speaker 2: and the desire there in part is to create good

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Speaker 2: jobs in industries that are likely to be drivers of

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Speaker 2: future growth, whether it's semiconductors or clean energy. But we

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Speaker 2: don't want to forego the benefits of globalization and trade,

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Speaker 2: and so the idea Year of Friendsharing is that we

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Speaker 2: want to be able to rely on a broader set

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Speaker 2: of countries to do trade and investment, to deepen our

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Speaker 2: trade and investment relationships with countries that we feel are trustworthy,

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Speaker 2: that can be reliable parts of a global supply chain

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Speaker 2: that we.

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Speaker 3: Take part in.

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Speaker 2: And part of what I've been doing is traveling around

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Speaker 2: the world talking to countries about developing our supply chain relations.

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Speaker 2: And of course we're very close partners with Europe, with Canada, Mexico,

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Speaker 2: other countries with whom we have free trade areas, but

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Speaker 2: many more countries. We're deepening our relationships with India, with Vietnam,

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Speaker 2: so we want this to be broad. We understand that

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Speaker 2: the international division of labor, with countries taking advantage of

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Speaker 2: the benefits of parative advantage, doing what you're most efficient at,

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Speaker 2: relatively efficient at that this is a great set of

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Speaker 2: benefits both for the United States and also countries that

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Speaker 2: are given the opportunity to trade and that contributes to

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Speaker 2: their growth.

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Speaker 3: So we don't want to.

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Speaker 2: Forego that, and we do want to maintain the benefits

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Speaker 2: of globalization, but without the vulnerability that comes from a

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Speaker 2: undue reliance on a few countries that may restrict trade

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Speaker 2: for political or other reasons.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned broadening our network of friends that we

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Speaker 1: can have partnerships with, but also China. I know you

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Speaker 1: took a trip to China and to Beijing this summer.

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Speaker 1: You've been talking about how our policy should really be

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Speaker 1: around de risking or diversifying rather than decoupling. But what

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Speaker 1: do you think is the current state so that do

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Speaker 1: you think the Chinese have adopted that and feel like

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Speaker 1: they can trust us on that front, or do you

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Speaker 1: think they still really think that we're in a competition

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Speaker 1: with them first and foremost.

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, we've articulated a strategy. As you said,

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Speaker 2: it involves de risking in some areas where we're overly

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Speaker 2: dependent on China, and clean energy is a good example.

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Speaker 2: We also intend to focus on national security. That's an

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Speaker 2: area that we're not willing to compromise on, and so

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Speaker 2: we do have export controls.

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Speaker 3: We continue to review them.

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Speaker 2: We're working on a set of restrictions on outbound investment

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Speaker 2: to China. We've discussed this with them and put out

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Speaker 2: a proposal that's in the public domain.

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Speaker 3: I think comments just closed on it.

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Speaker 2: But our objective there is to target what we do

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Speaker 2: as narrowly as possible so that it really focuses on

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Speaker 2: national security, that it is not an intention in that

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Speaker 2: to harm the prospects of Chinese economic development and the

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Speaker 2: welfare of the Chinese people. So we intend to have

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Speaker 2: healthy competition and mutually beneficial trade and investment with China

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Speaker 2: in many areas. I've tried to make this clear. And

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Speaker 2: then importantly, the third prong of it is we need

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Speaker 2: to work together on global problems. Debt relief is one

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Speaker 2: of those problems. Climate changes another, but there are many examples.

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Speaker 2: So that's what we're trying to do in terms of

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Speaker 2: our strategy. You know, President Biden and President she met

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Speaker 2: in Bali. I guess it's just over a year ago.

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Speaker 2: At that meeting, In more or less to over two years,

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Speaker 2: almost no senior level contact had taken place during the

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Speaker 2: pandemic between China and the United States, and I think

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Speaker 2: that was a dangerous situation. And especially when there are disagreements,

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Speaker 2: it's actually important to be able to discuss them, to

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Speaker 2: talk through to see the other country's point of view,

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Speaker 2: and to discuss areas where you're not in sync.

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Speaker 3: And it was recognized by.

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Speaker 2: Both sides that we needed to talk more to deepen

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Speaker 2: our discussions, exchange of information, and particularly in economic areas

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Speaker 2: macroeconomic performance, financial markets, where our behavior has spillovers a

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Speaker 2: back and forth to one another, and also our decisions

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Speaker 2: affect the global outlaw as a whole. And that's what

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Speaker 2: I tried to begin in my meetings that I had

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Speaker 2: in China, and things have continued very positively from there.

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Speaker 2: We've formed two working groups. They report to me and

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Speaker 2: my Chinese counterpart of fun. One concerns economic matters, the

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Speaker 2: other financial matters. The working groups met earlier this week.

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Speaker 2: Both of them met, and we now have a set

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Speaker 2: of very constructive and deepening discussions about areas of mutual concern.

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Speaker 2: And it's good to have contacts throughout our chain, it

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Speaker 2: levels below secretary staff level, discussions and channels of communication

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Speaker 2: where when the problem arises, each side can pay up

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Speaker 2: the phone and discuss it before it rises to the

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Speaker 2: level of a real, really serious disagreement. So I think

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Speaker 2: this agenda is working. We certainly will continue to deepen

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Speaker 2: our economic relationship and discussions, and I'm feeling very good

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Speaker 2: about how things are going there.

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Speaker 1: Turning back to the US Secretary Yellen, you've described the

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Speaker 1: Biden administration's economic policies as something you referred to as

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Speaker 1: modern supply side economics, and with those policies, they're aiming

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Speaker 1: to increase the productive.

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Speaker 3: Capacity in the US. That's right, that's a pretty good

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Speaker 3: big goal.

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Speaker 1: So can you talk to me a little bit about

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Speaker 1: how long do you think it's going to take for

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Speaker 1: some of those policies to become entrenched enough that they

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Speaker 1: stick and have a real impact on people. And the

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Speaker 1: reason I'm asking is because I'm looking ahead to next year.

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Speaker 1: The election is coming up. What's at stake if the

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Speaker 1: Democrats don't retain the White House in terms of the

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Speaker 1: ability for some of those policies to take hold.

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Speaker 2: So, yes, modern supply side economics, it's in part of

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Speaker 2: growth strategy, and this is something Republicans and Democrats I

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Speaker 2: think share a desire to see real wages and incomes increase,

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Speaker 2: to see economic welfare for the broad set of Americans

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Speaker 2: to improve over time, and an economic growth or quote

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Speaker 2: supply side strategy. This isn't a matter of demand management.

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Speaker 2: It's a matter of improving our economy's ability to produce

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Speaker 2: goods and services over the medium to long term. I

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Speaker 2: think agree on that it's widely accepted. The Republican strategy

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Speaker 2: has been, as I said, largely a trickle down strategy

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Speaker 2: of giving tax breaks or deregulation to the rich and

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Speaker 2: corporations in the expectation or hope that benefits would trickle down.

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Speaker 2: More broadly, I see that as a failed strategy and

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Speaker 2: one that has really not been successful. It creating broad

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Speaker 2: shared prosperity. And I see modern supply side economics as

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Speaker 2: having the same objective but proceeding in a different way.

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Speaker 2: And there are many factors that our inputs into growth

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Speaker 2: besides private investment. For too long, we ignored infrastructure. So

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Speaker 2: investing in America's infrastructure as a return produces.

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Speaker 3: Benefits R and D.

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Speaker 2: We're now really, after having decades in which US spending

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Speaker 2: on research and development, certainly at the federal level, had

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Speaker 2: fallen to very low levels, we're no longer one of

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Speaker 2: the leading countries in terms of the resources we devote

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Speaker 2: to R and D. That we've stepped that up substantially

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Speaker 2: in the legislation that's been passed. And what we want

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Speaker 2: is also growth that's equitable, so addressing inequality. As saying,

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Speaker 2: for over fifty years, essentially the median American really saw.

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Speaker 3: Very little growth, little or no growth in their real income.

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Speaker 3: We want to change that.

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Speaker 2: We want to make sure that opportunities are created, especially

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Speaker 2: for those who don't have a college education and live

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Speaker 2: in places. You know, we've had so much growth on

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Speaker 2: the coasts, but many parts of the country geographies that

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Speaker 2: it seems progress is passed by. And so if you

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Speaker 2: look at the legislation that's been passed and the investment

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Speaker 2: plans that have been announced, We've seen over six hundred

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Speaker 2: billion dollars in new investments that have been announced. Now,

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Speaker 2: it takes a while to get those in place, but

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Speaker 2: look at where are those investments occurring. They are occurring

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Speaker 2: in parts of the country that have not seen that

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Speaker 2: kind of investment. And you know, we're seeing electric vehicle

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Speaker 2: production and battery production in many parts of the country

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Speaker 2: that have been sorely hurting for good jobs. And so

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Speaker 2: it will take a while for Americans to see the

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Speaker 2: benefits of this. But even now, I think many Americans

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Speaker 2: can see that good jobs are being created in manufacturing,

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Speaker 2: which is not done well over decades in the United States.

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Speaker 2: So I believe that opportunities will be created and people

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Speaker 2: will be able to see that over time in their

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Speaker 2: daily lives.

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Speaker 1: No matter what secretary, you've been in public service, nearly

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Speaker 1: five decades now holding the.

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Speaker 3: It's a long time.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot of working years. As you show a

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Speaker 1: labor economists, I will say that you've held the top

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Speaker 1: economic posts you know, across the CEA, FED and now Treasury,

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Speaker 1: but you're also known as a technocrat and a policy

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Speaker 1: maker rather than a political animal.

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Speaker 3: Per se.

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Speaker 1: When you look at the divisiveness in Washington, and we've

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Speaker 1: just seen the past few weeks even just on Capitol Hill,

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Speaker 1: are you concerned that there's less and less room for

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Speaker 1: a person like you to come into government in Washington

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Speaker 1: and make a notable difference at the highest levels. If

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Speaker 1: you're not as politically driven as policy driven.

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Speaker 2: You know, I guess I see that we have a

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Speaker 2: government that is filled with people who are professional, technically proficient,

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Speaker 2: and dedicated to good policy. And we are trying to

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Speaker 2: put in place good, sound, technically solid government policy in

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Speaker 2: almost everything we do. And in spite of the difficult

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Speaker 2: political environment that we're in, President Biden and Vice President

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Speaker 2: Harris in the time they have been in office, have

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Speaker 2: succeeded in a bipartisan way in having a great deal

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Speaker 2: of meaningful legislation passed. The Treasury Department, I spend a

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Speaker 2: good share of my time working with very capable people

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Speaker 2: in our Tax policy department. We are charged with writing

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Speaker 2: all of the rules that are governing of the tax

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Speaker 2: incentives in the inflation reduction Act, those that will are

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Speaker 2: really creating enormous opportunities in connection with clean energy, and

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Speaker 2: we've gotten an allocation of funds to restore the Internal

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Speaker 2: Revenue Service, to restore their ability to both serve American

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Speaker 2: customers who deserve to have somebody answered the phone when

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Speaker 2: you when you call and have been missing that for

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Speaker 2: a long time, and also to actually collect the taxes

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Speaker 2: that our tax code says people ow. And when you

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Speaker 2: think about the fact that over over ten years, the

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Speaker 2: tax gap, namely the quantity of tax revenue that's due

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Speaker 2: but not paid, is estimated at seven trillion dollars. We're

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Speaker 2: in the process of restoring all of that.

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Speaker 3: And the people who are doing this.

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Speaker 2: Are a largely a civil service that is tremendously competent, professional,

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Speaker 2: and dedicated to making the United States function well. So

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Speaker 2: I think there's plenty of scope for good policy, and

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Speaker 2: I hope we're in the process of doing it in

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Speaker 2: spite of some of the what seems like political dysfunction

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Speaker 2: in our country.

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Speaker 1: Well, Secretary Yllen, thank you so much for joining us

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Speaker 1: today and giving us so much of your time and

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Speaker 1: sharing your insights.

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Speaker 3: It's a true public pleasure. Thank you so much. Thanks

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Speaker 3: to happening on