Speaker 1: As a guide and hunter, I've spent thousands of days
Speaker 1: in the field. This show is about translating my hard
Speaker 1: won experiences into tips and tactics they'll get you closer
Speaker 1: to your ultimate goal success in the field. I'm Remy Warren.
Speaker 1: This is Cutting the Distance. Welcome back everyone to Cutting
Speaker 1: the Distance podcast. This week is part two of the
Speaker 1: live Q and E I did from the Pope and
Speaker 1: Young Club convention in Reno, Nevada. For me, these are
Speaker 1: really fun episodes to do, and I think probably out
Speaker 1: of the line of podcasts in the past, some of
Speaker 1: the best episodes if you're looking for high level tactics,
Speaker 1: are just to better understand my hunt strategies. And this
Speaker 1: is the first for us doing something live. But I think, well,
Speaker 1: what I really enjoyed about it is the fact that
Speaker 1: I really couldn't share you pick the questions. So because
Speaker 1: of that this episode, there are a few SAW tactics
Speaker 1: that I may never have divulged otherwise, maybe not because
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to, but because I just wouldn't think
Speaker 1: about diving into that tactic. So I hope you guys
Speaker 1: enjoy it. Let's jump in right now to the first
Speaker 1: question and go live to the Pope and Young. It's
Speaker 1: it's awesome to be here at Pope and Young Club convention.
Speaker 1: Sixty years of Pope and Young. And I'm excited. You know,
Speaker 1: my my kind of bases in Western big game hunting
Speaker 1: obviously archery hunting. Um. So, you know, I like to
Speaker 1: what I like to do. I love to do these
Speaker 1: questions answers because it's a good way for me to
Speaker 1: interact with you kind of you know there maybe there's
Speaker 1: a question that you've had about tag draws, hunt like
Speaker 1: hunt tactics, any kind of question that there is, I
Speaker 1: will be more than happy to answer in And even
Speaker 1: if I don't know the answer they I'll probably give
Speaker 1: you an answer, um and you can google it later.
Speaker 1: Don't ask me anything to do with math, please. Um.
Speaker 1: I think there's some pretty weird conversions. Last the last hour,
Speaker 1: I was failed that math test. But um, if it's
Speaker 1: adding up six by six, I know that. Um. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll get we'll get started. Um yeah. So I'm excited
Speaker 1: to kind of kick this off of anybody. You know,
Speaker 1: I just want to open it up. We'll kind of
Speaker 1: create a discussion and if there's questions on questions or whatever,
Speaker 1: feel free. Um, you know, I'd love to kind of
Speaker 1: answer whatever you guys have. UM, so anyone want to
Speaker 1: kick it off? What is your opinion on the filming
Speaker 1: rules Colorado Wilderness. Oh, that's a that's a loaded question
Speaker 1: getting into up politics here. Um. You know, I mean
Speaker 1: I think like for the most part of filming in wilderness,
Speaker 1: you know, is kind of not necessarily allowed, especially commercial filming.
Speaker 1: Here's my thought. I mean, this is just my personal
Speaker 1: thoughts on filming um in wilderness. I think that in
Speaker 1: many ways it's I can understand the idea behind it,
Speaker 1: because you don't want Wilderness is a very very special
Speaker 1: thing to me. It's a very special thing to a
Speaker 1: lot of hunters. And the reason the wilderness is such
Speaker 1: a cool place is because there there is no motorized
Speaker 1: there's no bicycles, there's no helicopters, there's no planes, there's
Speaker 1: no chainsaws, there's you're doing things the way they were.
Speaker 1: And that, to me is like the whole reason that
Speaker 1: I want to go into the wilderness, you know, I
Speaker 1: want to be in a place that's like everything else
Speaker 1: that's around you get back there, it's it's how it was,
Speaker 1: And that's just an incredible feeling and to be able
Speaker 1: to preserve and protect that is extremely important now as
Speaker 1: a guy that loves to film and share and other things. UM,
Speaker 1: I like the idea of being able to share those
Speaker 1: things with maybe people that can't experience it or don't
Speaker 1: understand the appreciation of why we love the wilderness. There's
Speaker 1: so many people that see that thing on a map
Speaker 1: and it means nothing to them. And if it means
Speaker 1: nothing to them, I mean I like to think that
Speaker 1: these kind of things can last forever, but I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily know that that's true. I mean, maybe a hundred
Speaker 1: years from now, it's like, hey, that's where we just
Speaker 1: we get rid of that, you know, it's like, oh
Speaker 1: that's a waste. Um. So to be able to bring
Speaker 1: people in and share those experiences is really cool. But
Speaker 1: I also understand, like, you don't want a giant film
Speaker 1: crew coming in. You don't want this impact. That's like
Speaker 1: it doesn't really go with wilderness. So in my summation,
Speaker 1: I think if you do it my way, where it's
Speaker 1: just you and one camera, I think that that's okay.
Speaker 1: You know, a single person filming their own trip kind
Speaker 1: of thing. I think that's a really great way to
Speaker 1: share that experience of the wilderness. And it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: well you self film, you do it yourself. Of course
Speaker 1: that's your thought. But I kind of think it's a
Speaker 1: good way of like that, trying to find that balance
Speaker 1: of making it this big production thing where anybody could
Speaker 1: go back there and film star Wars, or making it
Speaker 1: a thing where hey, I'm just trying to share what
Speaker 1: I love and like the land and the appreciation for
Speaker 1: the wildlife and the things back there, because I mean,
Speaker 1: how many nature wilderness films have you seen where it's like,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, films in the frank Church or
Speaker 1: those kind of things. Those are things that I remember
Speaker 1: growing up watching and saying, that's the whole reason that
Speaker 1: I wanted to go into the cell way wanted to
Speaker 1: go into the frank you know, seeing it because if
Speaker 1: I didn't see it, I wouldn't understand it. Um So
Speaker 1: to be able to see it first and then kind
Speaker 1: of get that dream, and that dream is kind of
Speaker 1: what promotes people to go in and check it out
Speaker 1: and preserve it and protect it and and be able
Speaker 1: to share it. So that's a roundabout way of saying,
Speaker 1: like I don't really know where I stand on it.
Speaker 1: I love willerness, but I also like being able. I
Speaker 1: like the idea of being able to share it. Um.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I hope that kind of answers the question.
Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily I'm not super familiar with like
Speaker 1: the the what's going on in Colorado wilderness, but I
Speaker 1: feel like it's probably fairly similar to kind of all wilderness.
Speaker 1: Is that that kind of answer? It awesome? Thank you
Speaker 1: anybody else? I mean, and I can also just start
Speaker 1: talking about things. So I, I know, you based yourself
Speaker 1: right out of you know, the Reno area here, and
Speaker 1: when did you start venturing out into you know, other
Speaker 1: states and you know, going into public land and other states. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I started, uh fairly young. I mean I was probably
Speaker 1: I think my first out of state hunt was, um thirteen.
Speaker 1: My my grandpa lived in Montana, and so I spent
Speaker 1: all my summers up in Montana with my grandpa, and
Speaker 1: so that was kind of like my first you know,
Speaker 1: grew up hunting there with him. He actually, uh, he
Speaker 1: actually moved up there when he was younger and started
Speaker 1: working as a guide and outfitter in the bitter Root
Speaker 1: in the Cellway wilderness. UM. And so you know, doing
Speaker 1: horse trips and all that kind of stuff. And then
Speaker 1: you know, when I was a kid, he ended up
Speaker 1: selling his his outfitting, but I would go up there
Speaker 1: and hunt with him and kind of learn the land
Speaker 1: throughout the summer and then go up and do some
Speaker 1: hunting and stuff like that. And that's actually how I
Speaker 1: started my outfitting business in Montana. That's why I's like
Speaker 1: everyone's like from Nevada, why in Montana? Well, I mean
Speaker 1: pretty much my entire life lived in both places, um
Speaker 1: to a certain extent, and really knew that era really
Speaker 1: well because he was the type of guy that would
Speaker 1: just drive us up to the trailhead and say, okay,
Speaker 1: like the road up and he said, all right, I'll
Speaker 1: meet you at the bottom. Thirteen years old, like I
Speaker 1: find your way down. It's like okay. I was like
Speaker 1: thinking about it, and I'm like, yeah, um yeah, Ben,
Speaker 1: for yourself, I don't know what he I think you um,
Speaker 1: but it was pretty cool. You you like, you know,
Speaker 1: loved being able to share that with us and show
Speaker 1: us around, and so, you know, growing up and having
Speaker 1: that experience and that knowledge was awesome. And then you know,
Speaker 1: shortly after high school, I was like, well, that that's
Speaker 1: the mecca of elk guiding. You know, if I want
Speaker 1: to be an elk guide, I gotta go up there
Speaker 1: where it's where it's on, where you can pick up
Speaker 1: a tag and hunt you know, unlimited areas and over
Speaker 1: the counter tags and and really have an opportunity and
Speaker 1: and do a lot of guiding and hunting up there.
Speaker 1: So um, you know, and and then I think one
Speaker 1: thing I am, I was a fairly early adopter of
Speaker 1: just like starting to apply other places because I just
Speaker 1: like I knew I loved to hunt and growing and
Speaker 1: I think actually growing up in Nevada was the reason
Speaker 1: that I started going to other states because we were
Speaker 1: one of the only places that didn't have over the
Speaker 1: counter tags. So kind of that thought of being like
Speaker 1: I knew a lot of adults, I was like, I
Speaker 1: was obsessed with hunting, and I'm like, I knew a
Speaker 1: lot of adults that would go five or six years
Speaker 1: between hunting big game animals. And I say it like,
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to be that person,
Speaker 1: Like how can you do that? You know? So I
Speaker 1: had to find other places to go. Um, And so
Speaker 1: I kind of started even before a lot of that, uh,
Speaker 1: before all these magazines of telling you you know what
Speaker 1: I mean I did, I was like, that's what I did.
Speaker 1: I read and researched and started applying, and I mean
Speaker 1: I've got now looking back, I mean I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: fairly young and have twenty five points in most states,
Speaker 1: so you know it's I still haven't drawn anything anywhere
Speaker 1: by day. You know, I've got the points to cash
Speaker 1: in hopefully one day, Um, which is pretty cool, so
Speaker 1: kind of just I've had that kind of mentality for
Speaker 1: a long time. Yeah, and you being so close, you know,
Speaker 1: to the California side and see here in Avata Range,
Speaker 1: When did you start venturing over there into the California
Speaker 1: growing up? I wish I knew now what I know.
Speaker 1: I knew then what I know now, because it was like,
Speaker 1: it's so close, And I mean, now I've figured out
Speaker 1: that I could be hunting in some pretty awesome over
Speaker 1: the counter zones where I can be pick up two
Speaker 1: tags and really like get after it and some awesome wilderness,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, and I could be hunting that closer
Speaker 1: than the places I hunt in my own home state. UM.
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize that until fairly later in life. Um,
Speaker 1: probably about you know, fifteen years ago. Um, but I
Speaker 1: mean still, you know, enough time to take advantage and
Speaker 1: and do some cool hunts over there, and you bare
Speaker 1: tags or whatever. You know, I didn't realize, like you know,
Speaker 1: everybody's leaving California to go somewhere else, and I think
Speaker 1: that there's actually some pretty good hunting that you know
Speaker 1: that people don't really even realize or it doesn't get
Speaker 1: talked about enough, because when you really think about it, yeah,
Speaker 1: you really are when it comes to over the counter
Speaker 1: tags and the end of the access and the public
Speaker 1: access that we have. If you're a public land hunter,
Speaker 1: I mean you have endless opportunity. Yeah, there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of opportunities for you know, over the countertype stuff,
Speaker 1: and they have a lot of good stuff that I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't recognize or realize. So
Speaker 1: I think it is one of the few Western states
Speaker 1: that probably gets talked about the least and has probably
Speaker 1: the most potential. Yeah exactly, Well not anymore because you're
Speaker 1: on the record. Yeah, yeah, anybody else, How long have
Speaker 1: you been an That's a good question. So I started outfitting, Um, well,
Speaker 1: now it's a math question. Damn. It. I told you
Speaker 1: no math questions. Okay, let me do the math. I was, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: let's see one times to carry the three No, Um,
Speaker 1: I have been outfitting for uh I think this would
Speaker 1: be my seventeenth year. Yeah yeah, so um yeah pretty
Speaker 1: much right out. I mean well, so I mean I
Speaker 1: started working for a guide right out of high school. Um.
Speaker 1: And then let's see, and then I uh, I owned
Speaker 1: my own I started, I ran, I bought my own
Speaker 1: outfitting permits and took over an outfit when I was
Speaker 1: twenty two years old. So that's like from not necessarily guiding,
Speaker 1: but like owning my own outfit. Um, since I was
Speaker 1: twenty two and I'm thirty six now, so when you
Speaker 1: can start guiding as far as a guide or there's
Speaker 1: an out Okay, so three times the price of the
Speaker 1: hunt just as a guide. UM. No, you know, I
Speaker 1: think I think that's that's a really good question. Now
Speaker 1: if I'm I'm the one going on the hunt, I
Speaker 1: think ten percent uh um, yeah, you know, I I
Speaker 1: think it really just depends on um, it depends on
Speaker 1: a lot of factors. Because it is one of those
Speaker 1: things it's like you know, I do know, like living
Speaker 1: off of tips is actually very true um in as
Speaker 1: a guide. And one of the things is like, you know,
Speaker 1: there's guides that will bust their ass and do everything
Speaker 1: they can where do you get something or not? Uh,
Speaker 1: they really really put in the time, and you're like, man,
Speaker 1: this guy's this guy is making a dollar an hour,
Speaker 1: and um, you know'd be awesome to like help this
Speaker 1: guy out. And then there's guides that you know, I've
Speaker 1: seen them. I've worked in camps where guides like they
Speaker 1: just they don't give a rip, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and they should probably get zero percent UM. So I
Speaker 1: I think kind of a standard and industry standard kind
Speaker 1: of is around that uh ten percent range um, you know.
Speaker 1: But it also depends on the price of the hunt,
Speaker 1: because I think if you book a um like a
Speaker 1: really expensive sheep hunt, that doesn't necessarily mean that the
Speaker 1: I mean, the tip is generally more, but it doesn't always.
Speaker 1: You know, you might have a elk hunt where the
Speaker 1: guy really just busted his ass and the chip might
Speaker 1: be five eight hundred dollars, you know, and and then
Speaker 1: the same type of thing where it's a sheep hunt
Speaker 1: and you went on one day and doesn't necessarily mean
Speaker 1: that it's a four thousand dollar tip. Um, it could
Speaker 1: be sheep GUIDs are like this guy is a um
Speaker 1: but uh, you know, I think I think it just
Speaker 1: depends kind of on your experience and a lot of
Speaker 1: other things. UM yeah. But as as knowing as a guy,
Speaker 1: I um, I it's definitely appreciated and as an outfitter.
Speaker 1: That's I mean, it's the background of it is the
Speaker 1: is the honest truth. Um. You know, I want to
Speaker 1: make sure that the guys that work for me, and
Speaker 1: you know, they're all guys that really put it out there.
Speaker 1: And so when a client comes and they're like, you know,
Speaker 1: I asked the guys, how how did you get tipped
Speaker 1: this week? Because if a guy is low, then like
Speaker 1: when they go, hey, can we come back next year,
Speaker 1: the answer is like no, sorry, like we're already full.
Speaker 1: We're about tin know. Um it is it's I was like,
Speaker 1: if you want the good guides and keep coming back,
Speaker 1: you want to be the guy that they want to
Speaker 1: take out. I mean, unfortunate unfortunately. You know, that's just
Speaker 1: how it is. Oh, what's your favorite You've been my
Speaker 1: favorite hunt that I've been on. That's a good question,
Speaker 1: you know. There, I mean there's so many. If I
Speaker 1: think about there's so many, Like every hunt, I love
Speaker 1: every hunt. Um, there's man that's like a that's kind
Speaker 1: of a stumper. I really do love hunting meal dere um.
Speaker 1: One one hunt that kind of comes to mind as
Speaker 1: like a hunt that and I told a little bit
Speaker 1: different hunt in the last group, But mule deer is
Speaker 1: kind of one of my passions. Early season, mule deer
Speaker 1: um one of my first bow hunts. I found a
Speaker 1: buck that I knew would have been an archery world
Speaker 1: record and it was a giant meal deer. And I
Speaker 1: hunted that mule deer um for I did my first
Speaker 1: solo trip. It was thirty days and I was hunting
Speaker 1: one buck. And I hunted that one buck for over
Speaker 1: a hundred days over the course of four years. Um.
Speaker 1: I never killed that buck. Um, I had an opportunity
Speaker 1: at him. I missed that buck. It's a sad story,
Speaker 1: but I did. I did actually miss that buck. I
Speaker 1: I and this was I was just I never had
Speaker 1: anybody tell me about archery. I knew nothing about archery.
Speaker 1: There wasn't all this information. I knew nothing about angles
Speaker 1: and shooting different. It was a fifty five yards shot
Speaker 1: off a cliff and that buck looked up. I didn't
Speaker 1: know to aim low. I shot aimed, he jumped the
Speaker 1: string and that arrow went right over his back. And
Speaker 1: then that was towards the end of the trip and
Speaker 1: his friend came out, uh like a smaller buck, the
Speaker 1: smallest buck in the group. And I thought like to myself,
Speaker 1: I was like, I just at that point, you like
Speaker 1: you put in some time. And I said, okay, I'm
Speaker 1: wanna come off the mountain with a deer. And I
Speaker 1: shot that deer and it was like a hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy four by four um, which I was like, that
Speaker 1: was the smallest buck in that group of ten deers.
Speaker 1: So it was a pretty good it's a pretty good zone.
Speaker 1: But I I always remember that that kind of hunting,
Speaker 1: that experience because I learned a lot about meal deer
Speaker 1: during that time that I spent um. I really learned
Speaker 1: to like their habits, their patterns, what early season meal
Speaker 1: dear do. And I think that by and then I
Speaker 1: spent the next three years not filling any tags and
Speaker 1: hunting the entire season, and I never saw that big
Speaker 1: deer those other two seasons, but I learned so much
Speaker 1: about hunting and so much about backcountry wilderness survival. Just
Speaker 1: I mean to go out, put a backpack on and
Speaker 1: not come back for a month. It is like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I would do restocks or whatever. But um, that was
Speaker 1: I just learned a lot about willerness skills and getting
Speaker 1: bushy and deer and hunting, and I just I feel
Speaker 1: like those years really probably made me the hunter that
Speaker 1: I am today. So that was a really cool experience
Speaker 1: in a and probably one of my most memorable hunts
Speaker 1: expanned over the course of a few years and interaction
Speaker 1: with a really incredible buck. Yeah yeah, but your thoughts
Speaker 1: are on expandable versus Oh, I knew that question was
Speaker 1: gonna kind of expandables very six blades, I don't know
Speaker 1: so far. The last the last session, Um, everyone was
Speaker 1: on my side. I am a fixed blade guy. Uh
Speaker 1: for a lot of reasons. Um. I like, when I
Speaker 1: shoot at something, I want my arrow to go through it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if it's uh grass and elk, it
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter moose, Like I want I want that
Speaker 1: arrow to keep going. And I feel like I haven't
Speaker 1: had I've tried many different expandables and I've I feel
Speaker 1: like they're very circumstantial. Um, you know, I think I've
Speaker 1: had them malfunction hard quartering away shots and um, I've
Speaker 1: also had the malfunction or not go through shoulders. And
Speaker 1: so I'm the type of person. You know, there's some
Speaker 1: people might disagree, but you know, I've I've had a
Speaker 1: lot of experience hunting a lot of different places. And
Speaker 1: one thing that I've noticed, especially through guiding and for
Speaker 1: different species around the world, you know, white tailed deer's
Speaker 1: vitals are a lot different than almost every other animal
Speaker 1: on the planet. And whether you're talking to guides in Africa,
Speaker 1: guys in Australia, guys in mid Asia, like they're like
Speaker 1: guys that white tail hunt a lot shoot things way
Speaker 1: too far back for almost every other animal because white
Speaker 1: tail vit. You know, lungs are so large and you
Speaker 1: can get that, but for most species, you gotta you
Speaker 1: gotta hug pretty tight to that shoulder to make a
Speaker 1: really good clean shot. And depending on their body position,
Speaker 1: and I want that broadhead. That's like, Hey, if I'm
Speaker 1: the type of guy that hugs close to the shoulder
Speaker 1: and if I hit something I don't want, I want
Speaker 1: to make a perfect kill, so I go with fixed
Speaker 1: blade pretty much percent of the time I have I
Speaker 1: have messed with expandables when I've got a bow that
Speaker 1: want tune really good and I know, like of a
Speaker 1: couple it's like, okay, well I'll use it for this
Speaker 1: hunt and just be cautious of grass and other things.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, and I had a lot
Speaker 1: of places and i'd hope quite often so they aren't
Speaker 1: actually legal there, so I don't want to have change
Speaker 1: to set up. But if anyone wants to disagree with me,
Speaker 1: I'm good with that too. I I see the benefit
Speaker 1: of the expandables as well, just for flights and aero
Speaker 1: flight and leaving a pretty big hole. With that being said,
Speaker 1: what fixed blade broadhead do you shoot? Um? Current So
Speaker 1: I've currently I've shot the montext for a very long time.
Speaker 1: UM I like that. I just started messing around a
Speaker 1: little bit with UM a bunch of different tube blades
Speaker 1: because just hunting in Australia, quite often we would use
Speaker 1: tube blades over there for the bigger animals like water
Speaker 1: buff like buffalo, because you get that a part of
Speaker 1: it would be like a thick rib or in the
Speaker 1: same factor, you could go in with the shoulder, if
Speaker 1: you've got to crack that rib that extra time, that
Speaker 1: three way, it's a lot of here to break through
Speaker 1: rib just with that single line than double cracking a rib.
Speaker 1: So the same kind of philosophy with shoulder blades. If
Speaker 1: you hit an elk shoulder with a three blad, it's
Speaker 1: like it's losing that energy. So a two blade will
Speaker 1: potentially penetrate further. Um. I kind of also like the
Speaker 1: idea of just like it's a little more back how
Speaker 1: it was to blade. It was like we we kind
Speaker 1: of like over I go, I go through and I'm
Speaker 1: sure a lot of hunters do this, Like you go
Speaker 1: through this phase of like going and following all the
Speaker 1: trends and trying all the new stuff, and then you
Speaker 1: peek and then you're like, I just want to go
Speaker 1: back to my basics and grab my longbow and grab
Speaker 1: my you know, two blade swiky broadheads and go kill
Speaker 1: something because it all works. You know, it's like in
Speaker 1: the end, you know, it's kind of the same results.
Speaker 1: So it's a little bit of like personal preference and
Speaker 1: how you like to hunt and what you see benefiting you.
Speaker 1: In many cases, like if you're a guy that wants
Speaker 1: like really loves the flight pattern of your expandable broadhead,
Speaker 1: and you've had good luck with it, and you're confident
Speaker 1: in it, and by all means shoot it, you know,
Speaker 1: because it's it's really for me archery more. It's about
Speaker 1: the hunting and about what I personally enjoy and so
Speaker 1: I kind of go through these phases of like this
Speaker 1: and that and trying different things. But right now I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sold on just based on you know, kind of
Speaker 1: getting back to that tube blade I think is and
Speaker 1: I've I got I've gone tobe blade and four fletching,
Speaker 1: and I found that it's actually flying. Those arrows are
Speaker 1: stabilizing really quick, and I'm getting a lot better. It's
Speaker 1: a lot easier to tune for me. So that's what
Speaker 1: I found just recently. It's kind of a new change.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, cattle, yeah, so cowolke archery, I mean,
Speaker 1: is it early or what wins this season? Like August? Yeah? Uh,
Speaker 1: more of like a desert yeah. I think The thing
Speaker 1: about so that is like when you think about hunting,
Speaker 1: So I actually kind of think about hunting cows and
Speaker 1: bulls as they're the same species, but there're two different
Speaker 1: animals depending on the time of year, the cows are
Speaker 1: really like the safety net of the herd, and they're
Speaker 1: actually quite a bit more patternable because that's how they
Speaker 1: find safety. So they're hurt hurt animals um elk, like
Speaker 1: you know, their protection is in that herd, and actually
Speaker 1: the cows, the matriarch of the herd runs that heard
Speaker 1: up until the rut and the bowl things. He's running up,
Speaker 1: but it's really going to be a cow. So there's
Speaker 1: like what happens is you can actually find patterns in
Speaker 1: what the cows do to find safety, but they also
Speaker 1: have to do all those things they need to survive,
Speaker 1: which is the food, the water, and then the shelter.
Speaker 1: And those cows have that down because they're looking out
Speaker 1: for all the other cows in that group. So what
Speaker 1: I like to do anytime I'm hunting something is I
Speaker 1: think about the big picture, like what do these animals need,
Speaker 1: what are they doing, how do they stay safe? And
Speaker 1: then how can I exploit that? In an area you're
Speaker 1: talking about, it's a little bit drier, so you're like, okay, um,
Speaker 1: what are those those elk gonna be tied to in
Speaker 1: that area? So I'm narrowing like anything that I hunt.
Speaker 1: It's a big picture down to like specific areas, like
Speaker 1: specific things. So in that particular area it's a little
Speaker 1: bit drier. Um, So I would actually start my hunt
Speaker 1: focused on water, and you're gonna find that the cows
Speaker 1: are going to be the ones that lead the herd
Speaker 1: to that water. They're gonna be doing it regularly, and
Speaker 1: there can be a little bit more pattern noble. So
Speaker 1: I would actually focus on water sources, finding sign and
Speaker 1: tracks and productive water sources, and then probably sitting water
Speaker 1: or hunting in and around that like water area because
Speaker 1: they're gonna be going, especially early season, they're gonna be
Speaker 1: hitting that water pretty often, and they're gonna be on
Speaker 1: a better pattern. And so I just exploit that pattern
Speaker 1: and exploit that weakness. Now, if I was if you're
Speaker 1: saying a September hunt, um, you know, and maybe like
Speaker 1: for cow elk in say Colorado, where there's like mountain
Speaker 1: a mountain hunt or something and it's it's a lot
Speaker 1: more water than I would probably actually change my tactic
Speaker 1: and I'd say, well, what's the thing missing here or
Speaker 1: what do these elk have that um, what's that one
Speaker 1: thing that might be able to kind of pinch point
Speaker 1: and figure out what those particular elk are needing at
Speaker 1: that time and kind of base it on the season
Speaker 1: and the other things. So for your particular instance, I
Speaker 1: would definitely focus starting on water and then figuring out
Speaker 1: that habitat around there where they're living in neither spot
Speaker 1: and stock that or even sitting water. It's a great,
Speaker 1: great tactic. Uh yeah, So I will use cow calls
Speaker 1: for a couple of things. It would be, um, still hunting.
Speaker 1: I'll always have that cow call with me. This is
Speaker 1: any time of year from beginning of our three season
Speaker 1: through the end of rifle season. That call cow call
Speaker 1: not necessarily to call the animals in, but it like
Speaker 1: one thing you'll notice is if you spook and elk
Speaker 1: like as long even sometimes even when you win them
Speaker 1: when they win you. But for the most part, let's
Speaker 1: say we're still like, you've got this area figured out.
Speaker 1: It's thicker, Like that's there's some pretty good PJ in
Speaker 1: that area, like pinion juniper Country's thick. You might have
Speaker 1: to do a little bit of still hunting, but you
Speaker 1: found a water source and you're like, look, they're hitting
Speaker 1: this at night. You know, it's clear. I like that
Speaker 1: they aren't coming in here in the day, so you
Speaker 1: know they're in that area, you might have to still
Speaker 1: hunt through the timber. I'll just sneak around and like
Speaker 1: let's say you you bump a bedded cow in the
Speaker 1: middle of the day. As soon as she takes that
Speaker 1: first step, stop, they will elk will stop. I would
Speaker 1: say of the time, if you hit that cow, call
Speaker 1: right off the bat because their first react is something spooked.
Speaker 1: But I heard and elk, So it was maybe an
Speaker 1: elk Because elk are that hurt animal. They're used to sound,
Speaker 1: and they're used to other animals around. So if they
Speaker 1: think that that sound that they heard was another animal
Speaker 1: or another animal is saying, oh it's okay, they'll stop
Speaker 1: and take a look. And sometimes you can just sit
Speaker 1: down or wait. They'll calm back down and then you
Speaker 1: can make a stock in. There's been a lot of
Speaker 1: times where I've been, you know, a cow hunt or
Speaker 1: even a bull hunt, bumped something out of the bed
Speaker 1: that I knew was like, hey, I'm at least I'm
Speaker 1: hunting into the wind. They didn't win me. Maybe they
Speaker 1: heard or saw something I hit that and they just
Speaker 1: think like, oh, that's just another one of us in
Speaker 1: the herd, they calm back down and you can generally
Speaker 1: get a shot or you know, be patient and see
Speaker 1: what else happens. Now, Um, you can also use I've
Speaker 1: used like that a cow call while hunting cow elk
Speaker 1: to call them in and and I've done that in
Speaker 1: like September and other times. Mostly what will end up
Speaker 1: happening is you're gonna be calling in a calf. So um,
Speaker 1: that's actually the easiest packing in most delicious of the
Speaker 1: elk species. So go for it, you know, let it
Speaker 1: rip like um. But uh, generally like or if you're like,
Speaker 1: it's not as easy. It depends, like if the herd
Speaker 1: gets busted up, they should start talking again, and you
Speaker 1: can't actually call them in with like a more mature
Speaker 1: cow sound, like a longer drawn out sound. I'll even
Speaker 1: use that. It seems weird, like more of an estrus
Speaker 1: wine call outside of the rut. People be like, well,
Speaker 1: that's just an estrous sound. But I found that, like
Speaker 1: the elk, the cows really respond to that. I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's what it is, all just like a
Speaker 1: more sound and that like draws the curiosity of other cows.
Speaker 1: So you might be something you want to try. Yes,
Speaker 1: how did you get choked up with crime? That's not
Speaker 1: who I normally think of for chills. Oh. Um, that's
Speaker 1: a good question. I don't know. I uh oh on
Speaker 1: you're talking on Amazon. Uh that we don't even know
Speaker 1: how that happened. Um, that's a good I I really
Speaker 1: don't know. I think it was just we we kind
Speaker 1: of like we were on the outdoor channel and then
Speaker 1: we were looking for kind of another home for it
Speaker 1: just as things went more digital, and um, we had
Speaker 1: known some people that reached out to us and we're like, hey,
Speaker 1: we'd love to have this here, and that's kind of
Speaker 1: how it landed there. Um yep. I know you've covered
Speaker 1: it in your podcast a couple of times, but East
Speaker 1: scouting new areas that you've never been to before and
Speaker 1: additional tips and tactics stopper. Yeah, I think, Um, you know, well,
Speaker 1: I guess like it's always you know, you can talk
Speaker 1: really broader, you can talk really specific. So was there
Speaker 1: like a specific type of terrain or animal in Montana?
Speaker 1: There's a lot of water too. Yeah, so um eat
Speaker 1: scouting when it comes to like E scouting, Timber, I'm
Speaker 1: all about topography, So I learned I mean, like many
Speaker 1: of it's like started hunting using paper tobo maps and
Speaker 1: I got really good at reading them, and I started
Speaker 1: to find places that elk like and started kind of
Speaker 1: compiling that data of there's certain types of topography that
Speaker 1: animals prefer. And so what I like to do is
Speaker 1: all I actually really enjoy hunting elk in the timber
Speaker 1: and in the way that I find the places that
Speaker 1: I'm hunting is using essentially its topography. I turn I'll
Speaker 1: turn the satellite imagery off and I'll just look at
Speaker 1: the straight topo map and how the terrain underneath those
Speaker 1: trees is laid out. And so one thing that I mean,
Speaker 1: one thing specific to elk is you know, like elk
Speaker 1: do live in some really steep, nasty and early country,
Speaker 1: but they're super lazy. They love benches. They love those
Speaker 1: like more flattened out spots. They love those ridges and
Speaker 1: those finger ridges. So when an elk beds, like they
Speaker 1: like to bed for safety. But you gotta think also,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's goes back to that herd thing,
Speaker 1: Like they need a spot where the herd can spread
Speaker 1: out and everybody's got their eyes, ears and noses out
Speaker 1: and that tends to work best on a more like
Speaker 1: flat spot. Now they will sleep bed and some steep
Speaker 1: gnarly stuff, but for the most part, a lot of
Speaker 1: their bedding is gonna be find those topography areas where
Speaker 1: it's super steep, and then you've got that little bit
Speaker 1: of difference, that one little thing that's different than everything
Speaker 1: else that lends itself to being good elk habitat. So
Speaker 1: that steep ridge that kind of flattens out and then
Speaker 1: goes down, or that big ridge that now has three
Speaker 1: finger ridges coming off, and then figure out, okay, which
Speaker 1: way is the wind blow in this area? Um generally
Speaker 1: the predominant wind, because what an elk is gonna do,
Speaker 1: or any animal really, they like to bed kind of
Speaker 1: like if they're on a hill of some kind, they're
Speaker 1: gonna bed. They're gonna get comfy. They're probably gonna be
Speaker 1: bedded with their body downhill because if they're bettered with
Speaker 1: their body up here, they're gonna roll down. So they're
Speaker 1: like this, They're sitting there and it's really I mean,
Speaker 1: they can look up, they can look down, but they
Speaker 1: like the wind at their back. So what I do
Speaker 1: is I look at the topography and say where's a
Speaker 1: good bedding area. And then I go, okay, which way
Speaker 1: is the predominant wind and is there enough covering there
Speaker 1: that they're out of the sun. And then I go, okay,
Speaker 1: pain point that because that's where maybe I'll still hunt
Speaker 1: or start my hunt around that They're gonna end up
Speaker 1: there at some point in the day. What are they
Speaker 1: doing outside of that? So now look, I'll go from
Speaker 1: that topography of like, okay, there, that's a good zone.
Speaker 1: Then I'll switch to that satellite image and say, okay,
Speaker 1: now where's the feeding there? Is there is there a
Speaker 1: small meadow in this area, and go okay, well, they're
Speaker 1: probably they can either feed it that in the night
Speaker 1: or the morning. And then here's their betting area. And
Speaker 1: now I've pinpointed an area to start my hunt. And
Speaker 1: that's like one of the ways that I like to
Speaker 1: do that. Another feature that I like to look for
Speaker 1: is like anything that makes this like don't like a
Speaker 1: head basin. It doesn't have to be at an actual
Speaker 1: head basin, but it's like the topographical uh motion of
Speaker 1: what would look like ahead. So it's it's creating a
Speaker 1: bowl effect. Now, the reason that's really good is what
Speaker 1: it does is it. It lends the animals multiple options
Speaker 1: for safe betting, so because as the wind changes, they
Speaker 1: might want a different bedding area, so instead of having
Speaker 1: to go all the way around. So you'll see I
Speaker 1: mean I've hunted places where it doesn't have that feature
Speaker 1: and the winds not the predominant way, and you see
Speaker 1: him feeding and then you watch those elk like it
Speaker 1: was scenario where you can see real well they will
Speaker 1: go five miles and go bed on the other side
Speaker 1: of the mountain where they feel safe. But if you've
Speaker 1: got that shape like this, what happens is if the
Speaker 1: wind comes from another direction, they can easily access bedding
Speaker 1: areas based on the wind without having to move really
Speaker 1: far from that feed water cover that they're used to,
Speaker 1: so they can everything is like it's a micro habitat
Speaker 1: where they can kind of focus in on that. So
Speaker 1: I look for those because I know that animals, all animals,
Speaker 1: most animals not anilope um, A lot of animals kind
Speaker 1: of like gravitate towards those areas, So that's always something
Speaker 1: that I look for as well. Question for a North Wales, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so Northwest Colorado meal here, you know what I'm looking
Speaker 1: for is similar habitat now that that basin shape is
Speaker 1: actually like probably more important for mealder than it is
Speaker 1: for elk um elk or more long ridges, finger ridges
Speaker 1: in that that slope mule deer, more head basin basin,
Speaker 1: even though elk will do that in the larger like
Speaker 1: you find that basin figure better and larger scale for
Speaker 1: elk and smaller scale and meal dere one thing that
Speaker 1: I will do too. So I'll find that I'll find
Speaker 1: those kind of topographical features that I'm looking for, and
Speaker 1: then I switch back to that satellite mode and I
Speaker 1: look for um that habitat now for the meal there.
Speaker 1: So I generally like for me when I'm hunting meal dere,
Speaker 1: if it's not high country, it's like more mid country. Um.
Speaker 1: I look for that real sage stuff, UM, a little
Speaker 1: bit more like high brush and other things where it's
Speaker 1: like they've got the food, they've got to cover everything
Speaker 1: kind of close by. And I really tried to key
Speaker 1: in on that another thing that I really like to
Speaker 1: do with meal deer, and I found that it works.
Speaker 1: It really works well for everything. But in country that
Speaker 1: you can kind of glass and you've got it's a
Speaker 1: more open country. Um, you know, you might find you'll notice,
Speaker 1: like anywhere you you'll find deer in a certain certain area.
Speaker 1: Do you're like, okay, this pocket holds deer in that
Speaker 1: pocket doesn't. So what I do? I do three things.
Speaker 1: I first market and I opened up my map, and
Speaker 1: I look at the topography of that, because I will
Speaker 1: then take that map and I will look for other
Speaker 1: topography in the unit that looks exactly like that, and
Speaker 1: you're gonna find that you're gonna start finding deer in
Speaker 1: those areas. And there's a lot of reasons behind that.
Speaker 1: So the first is and it might not be something
Speaker 1: that you even immediately think of, but there might be
Speaker 1: some kind of plant or food or something that they
Speaker 1: like that lends itself to that topography based on the
Speaker 1: way the sun is, the way the sun hits it,
Speaker 1: the way the water sheds off the mountain, and then
Speaker 1: the way that the sun hits it as well. And
Speaker 1: you know, like so I kind of found this little
Speaker 1: tactic by accident um one place in Montana where was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I was finding mulder in these certain uh I guess
Speaker 1: it would be a it was actually a September. This
Speaker 1: actually like this north face, but that head basin thing
Speaker 1: a little bit wetter, you know, a little bit more gradual,
Speaker 1: so it's like steep then sloped down. So what was happening?
Speaker 1: The water was coming in, there's this it was kind
Speaker 1: of seepy in the bottom of that. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: well there's water kind of everywhere. Why here, and started
Speaker 1: glassing as like a burn area, and then I started
Speaker 1: noticing it's like, well, what's in this burnia. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of fire eat and then um, a lot of elderberry.
Speaker 1: And I realized that elderberry was like crack cocaine for
Speaker 1: these meal deer and that, and it clicked, and I
Speaker 1: started looking for those places on the tobomap. I would
Speaker 1: go there and I'd find that elderberry, and I'd find
Speaker 1: those mature bucks. And it was just like, and it's
Speaker 1: only a one two week season a window in September,
Speaker 1: and I've found more like big meal deer in this
Speaker 1: archery season during that time in those areas. And so
Speaker 1: year after year, you know, and then as the water changes,
Speaker 1: it would change. But I would find where the animals
Speaker 1: are while I'm out there and then try to replicate
Speaker 1: it throughout the unit. And that gives you more places
Speaker 1: to focus in on, and especially when you find we
Speaker 1: start finding mature deer because there's something that mature deer have,
Speaker 1: like there there's they live in an area, and it's
Speaker 1: like there's a reason that I always say, like birds
Speaker 1: of a feather flock together, you know, if like mature
Speaker 1: animals maybe in a certain place and they're kind of
Speaker 1: all together, it's like because they can survive there, they
Speaker 1: can get the age, they can get whatever. And so
Speaker 1: by focusing in on what did these deer in this
Speaker 1: place have and where can I find it other places,
Speaker 1: it increases the amount of spots that you can go
Speaker 1: check and have a good likelihood of finding what you're
Speaker 1: looking for. If that makes sense. Yeah, can you talk
Speaker 1: a little bit more about Yeah, familiar with the plant? Yea, yeah,
Speaker 1: so uh elk really so elker grazers and whereas like deer, moose,
Speaker 1: er browsers, um, they digest their food completely different. Grazers
Speaker 1: need grass and so some of the best high protein
Speaker 1: grasses fescue um. So I I really try to focus
Speaker 1: on those south facing slopes that have that fescue um.
Speaker 1: It'll be like anytime there's a timber pocket it's like
Speaker 1: open meadows and sometimes you know it depending on where
Speaker 1: you're at, you'll be like, oh, here's a meadow, but
Speaker 1: what kind of grass is in that meadow, because some
Speaker 1: really wet meadows have grass, but it's not really high
Speaker 1: forage grass um. So actually sometimes those more drier, higher
Speaker 1: slopes on the south, on the south facing slope, they
Speaker 1: get a lot of sun. They actually are really good
Speaker 1: at holding that rescue and it's a pretty good high
Speaker 1: protein grass that elk kind of gravitate towards because it's
Speaker 1: like they get more pound per per month, and so
Speaker 1: I try to find those areas. It's like open areas,
Speaker 1: more grass um, and you're gonna find probably more elk
Speaker 1: in that kind of in that kind of country if
Speaker 1: it's in where you're at, you know, but primarily focusing
Speaker 1: on graph it doesn't matter where you are, focus on
Speaker 1: grass for elk for sure. I appreciate you all tuning
Speaker 1: in this week. Next week is going to be our
Speaker 1: final installment of the live Q and A, so you
Speaker 1: won't want to miss that. I think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of great questions asked and answered still that you're gonna
Speaker 1: learn some things from. So make sure to tune in
Speaker 1: next week and check that out. Also, don't forget to
Speaker 1: send me your own questions at remy warrant on Instagram
Speaker 1: is the easiest way to do it, send me a
Speaker 1: direct message and for future podcasts of Q and A's
Speaker 1: I'll be using those, but also I'll be using it
Speaker 1: to kind of drive the discussion and the topics for
Speaker 1: the next few podcasts in the coming months as we
Speaker 1: prepare for the season. So until next week, I want
Speaker 1: you all to keep the on alive. Yes that was
Speaker 1: alive part to end the podcast. H