1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:01,280 Speaker 1: And you're here. 2 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 2: Thanks for choosing the iHeartRadio and Coast to Ghost Day 3 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 2: and Paranormal Podcast Network. Your quest for podcasts of the paranormal, supernatural, 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,319 Speaker 2: and the unexplained ends here. We invite you to enjoy 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 2: all our shows we have on this network, and right now, 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 2: let's start with Chase of the Afterlife for the Sandra. 7 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 3: Champlain Welcome to our podcast. Please be aware the thoughts 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 3: and opinions expressed by the host are their thoughts and 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 3: opinions only and do not reflect those of iHeartMedia, iHeartRadio, 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 3: Coast to Coast am employees of Premiere Networks, or their 11 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 3: sponsors and associates. We would like to encourage you to 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 3: do your own research and discover the subject matter for yourself. Hi, 13 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 3: I'm Sandra Champlain. For over twenty five years, been on 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 3: a journey to prove the existence of life after death. 15 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 3: On each episode, we'll discuss the reasons we now know 16 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: that our loved ones have survived physical death and so 17 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 3: will we. Welcome to Shades of the Afterlife. Back in 18 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: two thousand and five, I attended a conference in Atlanta, 19 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 3: Georgia called Afterlife the Evidence. It was hosted by Tom 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: and Lisa Butler, who wrote the book There Is No 21 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 3: Death and There Are No Dead. That was the very 22 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: first time I had ever heard about Sonia Ronaldi. You 23 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 3: may remember her from episode number one. She was my 24 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 3: very first guest on Shades of the Afterlife. But I 25 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 3: heard she was in Brazil doing these phone calls to 26 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 3: the dead, recording empty space while talking to a parent, 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 3: and when she played back the recording, the voice of 28 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 3: their deceased child would be there. Now, so many years later, 29 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 3: she not only receives voices but also images. You may 30 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 3: be interested in our upcoming event with Sonia. She'll be 31 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 3: sharing with us her most recent experiments. You want to 32 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 3: check out We Don't Die dot com and the store page. 33 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 3: By the time you hear this, it might have already passed, 34 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,960 Speaker 3: but you can certainly watch the replay. The other person 35 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 3: quite memorable to me was doctor Gary Schwartz. He did 36 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 3: a fantastic presentation about some of the double blind and 37 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 3: triple blind experiments he did with mediums. Let me tell 38 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 3: you about him. Doctor Gary Schwartz is a former Harvard 39 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 3: and Yale professor. He is now senior professor at the 40 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: University of Arizona in psychology, medicine, neurology, and psychiatry. In 41 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 3: addition to teaching courses, he directs research at the Laboratory 42 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 3: for advance in Consciousness and Health. Doctor Schwartz has published 43 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 3: more than five hundred scientific papers. He served as the 44 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 3: founding president of the Academy for the Advancement of Post 45 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 3: Material Sciences. Seven of his nearly two dozen books written 46 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 3: include The Living Energy Universe, The Afterlife Experiments, The Healing 47 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 3: Energy Experiments, The Truth About Medium, The Sacred Promise, An 48 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: Atheist in Heaven, and Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence. And 49 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 3: these books I mentioned are all related to his scientific 50 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 3: investigations and findings addressing the survival of life after death. 51 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 3: He frequently speaks about health and psychology, healing energy, survival 52 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 3: of consciousness, and so much more. Has been featured on 53 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 3: some very prominent television and radio shows and the big 54 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 3: newspapers like The London Times, The New York Times, the 55 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 3: LA Times and others. Doctor Gary Schwartz is married to 56 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: a medium, the beautiful Ronda, who I had an opportunity 57 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 3: to meet both of them back in twenty eighteen. I 58 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 3: think it was with our friends from the Afterlife Research 59 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 3: and Education Institute Doctor Schwartz is also one of the 60 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 3: people behind the Soul Phone. You may remember that we 61 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 3: talked to doctor Mark pittstick Back on episode twenty five. 62 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: These words come to us from the International Spiritualist Federation 63 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 3: and it's a good group to keep an eye on. 64 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 3: You can find their website at THEISF dot co dot 65 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 3: uk and they've just started a YouTube channel with several 66 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,160 Speaker 3: interesting videos. You can find them on YouTube at ISSF 67 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 3: Science Forum, and of course doctor Gary Schwartz can be 68 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 3: found at the Soul Phone Foundation dot org. I am 69 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 3: currently reading doctor Schwartz's book, The Afterlife Experiments, which will 70 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 3: give you a much deeper view, but I want to 71 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 3: share these words with you. It is very rare to 72 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 3: hear doctor Schwartz, and on this episode he speaks about 73 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 3: the soul Phone, about consciousness, survival, about mediums and more so. 74 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 3: Here is the incredible doctor Gary Schwartz. 75 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 4: I began doing research on the question of mediumship probably 76 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 4: more than twenty five years ago, which is quite extraordinary 77 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 4: when I think about it. And the research began in 78 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:47,679 Speaker 4: secret because it was research that I was not doing 79 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 4: because I have been a spiritualist, or was even open 80 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 4: to these ideas. Just as a sidebar, you know, I 81 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 4: have been trained in Western science, I've been read used 82 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 4: in essentially an atheist home. I was taught that it 83 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 4: was ashes dust to dust, chase closed, and I just 84 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 4: assumed that that was true. And it wasn't until I 85 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 4: was during my time as a professor of psychology and 86 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 4: psychiatry at Yale University that I began to question all 87 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 4: that and literally stumbled upon a theory and developed the 88 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 4: theory which, among other things, forced me to predict that 89 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,719 Speaker 4: not only was a life after death possible, but was 90 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 4: sort of required by our understanding of contemporary of physics 91 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 4: and system science. But that didn't mean I was going 92 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 4: to do research in that area. It was just, you know, 93 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 4: a theory. There was nothing compelling me to do it. 94 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 4: But then I had a series of experiences, actually mostly 95 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 4: with women who had lost loved ones and really wanted 96 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 4: to know whether their loved ones personality conscioussiness histories continued. 97 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 4: These women were they came from different walks of life. 98 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 4: Some were scientists, some were writers, some were just regular people. 99 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 4: But they each approached me and beseeched me to help them, 100 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 4: help give them evidence. And so what I say to 101 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 4: people is that I was pushed there by scientific theory 102 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 4: and evidence, but I was pulled there by love, Linda's 103 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 4: love for her father, Susie's love for her mother. And 104 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 4: when you pushed and pulled in the same direction, it's 105 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 4: very hard to resist. So I'm sharing it with you 106 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 4: because when I began doing this work, not only did 107 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 4: I begin doing it in secret, but also I did 108 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 4: it with no knowledge of the history of the field. 109 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 4: I didn't know about s Rotha Conan Doyle and Harry Udiny. 110 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 4: I didn't know about the early work in British Parapsychological 111 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 4: Association or William James. I didn't know about any of 112 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 4: the spiritualism movements and so on. And I didn't know 113 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 4: also about other emerging literatures such as Near to That 114 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 4: about the experiences or reincarnation. This was not part of 115 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 4: my education, it was not part of my upbringing, and 116 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 4: so I approached it the childlike heart and interest, open minded. 117 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 4: But with all this background in science and experimental design 118 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:35,199 Speaker 4: and statistics and how to analyze data, and what happened 119 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 4: was I was privileged to end up meeting some very 120 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 4: gifted mediums who were really interested in science, and they 121 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 4: considered themselves to be evidential mediums, and they wanted the 122 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 4: world to know that they weren't frauds, that they weren't 123 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 4: cold readers, that there was a real phenomena here. And 124 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 4: I put them through ever more sophisticated experimental tests, and 125 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 4: in every case the mediums who were real quote passed 126 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 4: those tests, to the point where my first book was 127 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 4: published in two thousand and two, which is twenty one 128 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 4: years ago, which called the Afterlife Experiments break Through side 129 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 4: to its for Life after Death. And I was in 130 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 4: awe of not only their gifts, but in awe of 131 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 4: a greater spiritual reality that I had no idea existed, 132 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 4: and that the amount of love and caring that connected 133 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 4: these both within and between these realms. Now, over the years, 134 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 4: the research became ever more sophisticated. We ended up doing 135 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,359 Speaker 4: what it called single blind studies, and then double blind studies, 136 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 4: and then triple blind studies. And a postdoctoral fellow who 137 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 4: worked with me, who then created a instrument institute called 138 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 4: doctor Julie Bischel. She went on and even conducted five 139 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 4: way blinded experiments. Scientists would get obsessed about experimental controls, 140 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 4: particularly in controversial areas, and it became really clear that 141 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 4: the conventional explanations could not account for this, and I 142 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 4: reached the point where I didn't need any more scientific 143 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 4: quote evidence to be convinced of it myself, nor did 144 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 4: I feel that scientific evidence in that one area by 145 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 4: itself would ultimately be convincing to the people who were 146 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 4: extremely skeptical or the quote disbelievers. So I began to 147 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 4: shift my focus to research on technology. I went public 148 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 4: with that work, that meaning in terms of publishing a 149 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 4: couple of key scientific papers in twenty ten, in two 150 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 4: and eleven on the use of super sensitive state of 151 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 4: the art technology to detect the energy of spirit, the 152 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 4: presence of the info energy systems that comprise our quote 153 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 4: energy bodies, and so on. And I did that work 154 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 4: always in collaboration with gifted mediums, and so that's the 155 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 4: kind of work that I've focused on, and I have 156 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 4: left the continued development of mediumship research to others. The 157 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 4: one thing I can say, though, is that I've maintained 158 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 4: relationships and particularly private research relationships with special mediums, and 159 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 4: they in turn have written books about research that they've 160 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 4: done with me through their practices and the like. I 161 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 4: can honestly say I have witnessed hundreds and hundreds of 162 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 4: research readings in a laboratory setting over the past quarter 163 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 4: of a century, and I have witnessed probably thousands that 164 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 4: were just more quote informal, and after all that time, 165 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 4: I'm always struck with awe and wonder and gratitude and 166 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 4: celebration for both the phenomena, including its mysteries. There are, 167 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 4: I mean, there are a lot of mysteries, as you know, 168 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 4: and the mysteries and the challenges, the difficulties that most 169 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 4: mediums have, even the very best a what's the word, 170 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 4: The more intellectual and spiritual questions about all of us 171 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 4: are really in some real spooks, you know, more interesting 172 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 4: than just knowing that it's real. 173 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 3: It's nice hearing his words, isn't it, Professor Gary Schwartz. Yes, 174 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 3: it is. We're going to take our first break and 175 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 3: then we'll be back with doctor Schwartz. So just stay tuned, 176 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 3: stay just where you are. You're listening to Shades of 177 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 3: the Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM 178 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 3: Paranormal podcast Network. 179 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. 180 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 5: There's more Shades of the Afterlife coming right up. 181 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 6: Hey, folks, we need your music, Hey, it's producer Tom 182 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 6: at Coast to Coast AM and every first Sunday of 183 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 6: the month, we play music from emerging artists just like you. 184 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,160 Speaker 6: If you're a musician or a singer and have recorded 185 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 6: music you'd like to submit, it's very easy. 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He'll 195 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 3: be talking a bit about the big picture of research 196 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 3: into the afterlife, and towards the end, a bit about 197 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 3: what he calls the technology, which is his soul Phone project. 198 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 3: Let's listen. 199 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 4: So let's first talk about the very big picture. The 200 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 4: very big picture is that the kind of research that 201 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 4: points to ile of conscience. Let's just talk about the 202 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 4: existence of a greater spiritual reality. And let's ignore, for example, 203 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 4: theories from physics that point in that direction. Let's talk 204 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 4: about data. There are many categories of data, each of 205 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 4: which speak to life after death, and they have been 206 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 4: discussed in many books, you know, and the latest you're 207 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 4: probably aware of the Bigelow Institute for Conscious Studies and 208 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 4: their contests that they had and so on. And there 209 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 4: are these bodies of work and the major ones or 210 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 4: near death experiences. There's after death communications, there's reincarnation in children, 211 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 4: there's deathbed visions, there's mediumship research, and the latest, of course, 212 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 4: is the technology research. Each of those bodies of evidence 213 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 4: have very compelling data. No one of those areas by 214 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:04,360 Speaker 4: itself is quote proof, although the one that would become 215 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 4: the closest to providing proof is actually the technology for 216 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 4: the reason that I'll explain, but it has not reached 217 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 4: that level that you'd call proof level. But each of 218 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 4: these individual level areas by themselves are not quote definitive. 219 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 4: But when you put them all together, the convergence of 220 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 4: the evidence, the consilience of the evidence, the whole is 221 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 4: far greater than the sum of its parts. And there 222 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 4: is no other alternative explanation that it can account for 223 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 4: all of that evidence when you have a body of 224 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 4: evidence where all of the evidence points in that direction. 225 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 4: And the conclusion that I say is the single best 226 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 4: theory that accounts for the largest amount of the evidence 227 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:57,120 Speaker 4: and also proposes hypotheses and experiments that could be proved 228 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 4: or disproved in future research. That anothesis is the survival 229 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 4: of consciousness to hypothesis, And it's very easy to come 230 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 4: to the conclusion if you know all the evidence now 231 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 4: within all that area, then there's this we go to 232 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 4: the specific domains. Mediumship within that as one of those 233 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 4: categories is one that is quite strong. And what's interesting 234 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 4: about mediumship compared to the others is that it can 235 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 4: be quote brought into the laboratory. Right now, we don't 236 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 4: do you know, near death experience research where we intentionally 237 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 4: quote kill people or you know, and then study them. 238 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 4: But during these periods of tide, they're very ethical reasons 239 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 4: for not doing that, okay, but mediumship research you can 240 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 4: bring into the laboratory. Mediums can be brought in. They 241 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 4: can do this under controlled circumstances and the meta what 242 00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 4: are called meta analyzes, where they've looked at put the 243 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 4: various studies together, there is a debate about which studies 244 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 4: you include in which studies you don't include, which is 245 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 4: always the case with meta analysis. But again the beta 246 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:12,439 Speaker 4: analysis also in general support that same conclusion, even when 247 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 4: you limit it to the very best studies. The better 248 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 4: the studies are, the clearer the conclusions are. So the 249 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 4: mediumship research, again, if you know the research, it's hard 250 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 4: to come to a different conclusion. Also, and this is 251 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 4: where sophistication in the research area becomes important. So, for example, 252 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 4: there are conditions which are optimal for obtaining positive results. 253 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 4: So if you want to achieve positive results, you want 254 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 4: to have skilled mediums who are evidence oriented, who are 255 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 4: minimally stressed and can get into a state where they 256 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 4: can feel comfortable receiving information and not worrying about whether 257 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 4: it's correct or not and not trying to quote charge. 258 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 4: You also need to be able to have sitters for 259 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 4: whom loved ones as a strong emotional bond and a 260 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 4: reason for them to connect in this context. And thirdly, 261 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 4: you want to be able to design the research in 262 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 4: such a way that it as closely as possible reflects 263 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 4: what mediums really do. In order to be able to 264 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 4: perceive the information that they get because science has very 265 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 4: often designed these very naive kinds of experiments trying to 266 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,840 Speaker 4: be quote controlling, and they don't realize they're throwing out 267 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 4: the baby with the bath water. And I wrote about 268 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 4: that in two thousand and two. So you know, if 269 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 4: you know these areas of work, and you're sophisticated at all, 270 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 4: you realize that, yeah, it's very easy to not get 271 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 4: a positive result and then say therefore, quote there's no 272 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 4: phenomena because you didn't get it under your circumstances. One 273 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 4: of the things, by the way, sidebar, that I have 274 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 4: been very impressed with is how easy it and how 275 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 4: fragile mediumship is with the very best well Michael Jordan's 276 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,639 Speaker 4: of the mediumship world Michael Jordan was a basketball player, 277 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 4: or now the Lebron James and the Stepth Curryes of basketball. 278 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 4: How easy it is to have the very best medium's 279 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:29,479 Speaker 4: performance de deteriorate, if not be completely impaired. I can 280 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 4: design very simple experiments and under circumstances with the very 281 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 4: best mediums that I were, and I know they're Michael Jordan's, 282 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 4: but they can't do the task. It's like saying Okay, 283 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 4: we want you to see whether you get the balls 284 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 4: in the basket, but you have to do it wearing blindfolds. Well, 285 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,159 Speaker 4: most people that are free throw lined, you know, if 286 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 4: they put a blindfold on, they're going to miss most 287 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 4: of their shots, even if they know where the basket is. 288 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 4: I mean, there are just certain things that you can 289 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 4: do that interferes with performance. But if you don't know 290 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 4: what it is that is not optimal but is actually interfering, 291 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 4: you can have the phenomena disappear. Again, the sophistication is 292 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 4: a factor, and again some of that. There's been an 293 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 4: article written recently and I'm forgetting his name. I see it, 294 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 4: but I can't say it. You Brazilian scientists, but they've 295 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 4: written a methodological analysis of the optimal conditions to obtain mediums, 296 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 4: not from just a control removing fraud or removing you 297 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 4: making vague general statements, but optimizing the conditions forgetting a 298 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 4: positive result as opposed to. The third area is in 299 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 4: the technology, and the technology area, which is one that 300 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 4: I've been focusing on for the past ten years, I'd 301 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 4: like to draw the distinction between proof of concept and 302 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 4: proof of product. Proof of practicality as opposed to proof 303 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 4: of possibility. So there's a proof of possibility versus a 304 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 4: proof of practicality. When you look at the totality of 305 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,880 Speaker 4: the data that we've collected, much of which is still 306 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 4: not published, partly because of issues of intellectual property in 307 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 4: the business world, part of women about the ethics of 308 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 4: all this work, and also potential abuse. But when you 309 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,520 Speaker 4: look at the totality of the data, there is no 310 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:32,400 Speaker 4: question that we have achieved in our research proof of concept. 311 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 4: But we've even developed a paradigm for being able to 312 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 4: do multi centered, double blind experiments replicating the very things 313 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 4: that we have done in the lab quote over and over, 314 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 4: and there's no question that we get a real phenomenon. 315 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,840 Speaker 4: And the metaphor that I use is like a Right 316 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 4: Brothers moment in the history of flight. Prior to the 317 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 4: Right Brothers in the early twentieth entry, there were no 318 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 4: powered airplanes, and nobody knew whether it was possible to 319 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 4: have flight, and many people had tried and failed, in 320 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 4: fact died. But then on that one fateful day in 321 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 4: Kitty Hawk, five people witnessed this wooden and paper and 322 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 4: cloth plane take off. It had no windows, it had 323 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 4: no chairs, there were no stewardess. I mean, there was 324 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 4: nothing that we just take for granted for flight today. 325 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 4: I think the first flight lasted. I've done all of 326 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 4: fourteen seconds or whatever. I don't remember the details of it, 327 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 4: and then the plane finally crashed. It was completely impractical, 328 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 4: but we knew the flight was possible, and that by 329 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 4: the way, the second time that when they tried to 330 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 4: do it, the wind wasn't strong enough in the plane 331 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 4: graft that they had to build it again, and the 332 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 4: third time become so on. But once you know it 333 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 4: was possible, then it became an engineering challenge to go 334 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 4: from proof of possible to proof of practical. So we've 335 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 4: been spending the past particuli ot wo say, four years 336 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 4: now on trying to see whether we can We call 337 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,680 Speaker 4: it tunnel emergence. So we're in the tunnel and we 338 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 4: can see the end of the tunnel. We're seeing light 339 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 4: at the end of the tunnel, but we have not 340 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 4: arrived through the tunnel. And the issue is primarily one 341 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 4: of an issue of signal to noise because the amount 342 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 4: of the intensity of quote physical energy, be it femto amp, 343 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 4: changes in current flow or the behavior of single photons 344 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 4: of light in a pitch black environment. We now have 345 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 4: the technology to be able to measure these ultra tiny changes, 346 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,920 Speaker 4: and we have the statistics and the paradigm to be 347 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 4: able to using techniques both from astrophysics and also in 348 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 4: EG recording what's called the evoke potentials, you can do 349 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 4: some very clever things and decrease the signal to noise Rachio. 350 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 4: The problem is, as you get higher and higher sensitivities, 351 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 4: you also pick up unanticipated noise problems which have been 352 00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 4: the what's the word the achilles heel almost of this work, 353 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 4: and maybe that's not quite the right phrase. So let 354 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 4: me give you an example. We were doing research detecting 355 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 4: the capacity for our hypothesized spirit collaborators, and we call 356 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,840 Speaker 4: them probably heard of the term post material psychology and 357 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 4: postal scientier. We refer to them as PMPs or post 358 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 4: material persons or post material participants. We effectually refer to 359 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 4: them as the A team and we're the BT because 360 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 4: they do a lot more about what the other side 361 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 4: is like there we do, and that includes very distinguished scientists. 362 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 4: And we were studying the capacity to see whether or 363 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 4: not we could detect subtle shifts in the absorption and 364 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 4: reflection of light passing through a pmp's hand, because you 365 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 4: know quote spirit of PMPs can if you're fully formed. 366 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,959 Speaker 4: That's why certain mediums who can see can see spirit. 367 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,479 Speaker 4: They see a body, they see jewelry, they see clothing, 368 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 4: thefcy hair. It's all you know there, and they can 369 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 4: engage in tasks just like we can. 370 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 3: It's time to take a quick break, but we'll be 371 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,440 Speaker 3: right back. You're listening to Shades of the Afterlife on 372 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast Network. 373 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. 374 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 2: There's more Shades of the Afterlife coming right up. 375 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 7: Were you looking for that certain someone who shares your 376 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 7: interests in UFOs, ghosts, bigfoot, conspiracy theories, and the paranormal, Well, 377 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 7: look no further. Paranormal date dot com the unique site 378 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,960 Speaker 7: for like minded people. If you like the senior crowd, 379 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 7: try paranormal date dot com slash seniors to meet like 380 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,639 Speaker 7: minded people that are sixty plus. It all depends on 381 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 7: what you prefer. Paranormal date dot Com is great for everyone. 382 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 7: You can also tap into members that are sixty plus 383 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 7: at Paranormal date dot Com slash Seniors enjoy your search 384 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 7: and have some fun at paranormal date dot com. 385 00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 4: The best afterlife information you can get. 386 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 6: Well, you're a loud Shades of the Afterlife with Sandra Champlain. 387 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain 388 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 3: and we're listening to doctor Gary Schwartz talk about the 389 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 3: latest experiments what's called the soul Phone project that they're 390 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:10,360 Speaker 3: working on. How PMPs stands for post material people, how 391 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:15,680 Speaker 3: they can block or interfere with a ray of light, 392 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 3: making their presence known under laboratory conditions. 393 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 4: And just in the same way that we obviously block 394 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 4: a beam of light, in principle, they should be able 395 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 4: to not block that. They should be able to subtly 396 00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 4: alter the behavior of light passing through them under controlled circumstances. 397 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 4: And we developed super sensitive technology using optical tables in 398 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,640 Speaker 4: the whole nine yards and multi reflecting mirrors so we 399 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,280 Speaker 4: could pass the light back and forth through the hand 400 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 4: over and over again, so you could accumulate the effects. 401 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 4: And we did very creative things, and we built this 402 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 4: piece of apparatus and then we couldn't use it. You 403 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 4: know why, Well, first of all, any kind of vibration, 404 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 4: any car in that drive way or a block away 405 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 4: would produce bigger effects than them. But secondly, we couldn't 406 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 4: calibrate the mirrors because the system was so sensitive. We're 407 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 4: using micrometer mirrors. The problem was that our body heat 408 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 4: walking up to the equipment, and so we didn't have 409 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 4: Unless you've got a completely environmentally controlled situation and you've 410 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 4: got the technology to be able to control them remotely 411 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 4: where you're not imposing heat like this, you're immediately producing 412 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 4: confounding variables. That takes a lot of money. So there's 413 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 4: been a challenge of it's not that we don't have 414 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 4: the technology to be able to develop this kind of 415 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 4: precision and measurement. It's that we don't have the resources 416 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 4: now to implement it. And most people who have money 417 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 4: don't see what it would mean. They don't recognize what 418 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 4: it would mean if it was really possible to produce 419 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 4: for the lay public. We call the soul switch a 420 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 4: binary switch. That would be the equivalent of a keystroke, 421 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 4: because if you could go from proof of concept to 422 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 4: proof of practical and what do I mean by proof 423 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 4: of practical where when our PMP makes a response within 424 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 4: a finite period of time, we could be ninety nine 425 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 4: percent sure that it was them and not an artifact. 426 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,719 Speaker 4: And if you can do it for one switch, then 427 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 4: you could do it for forty switches. If you could 428 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 4: do it for forty switches, you have a keyboard, if 429 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 4: you have soul texting, you've now got direct communications. 430 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 8: Just I would communicate by email and text all the time, 431 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 8: and for the first time ever, real communication becomes possible. 432 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 8: The issue is not technological, and the issue is not conceptual. 433 00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 8: It's ultimately engineering practical. And if you don't have the 434 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 8: resources to create we ate the code, clean rooms and 435 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 8: to have the people who have the expertise in the 436 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 8: various components working collaboratively as a team, you can't make 437 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 8: that quote breakthrough. So what's happened is that we've gone 438 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 8: from where it would take us ten or twelve hours 439 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 8: of data collection and analysis to where we can now 440 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:26,840 Speaker 8: probably within five minutes, get an average single response that 441 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 8: is statistically significant. Now, that's a huge increase in time 442 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 8: and practicality. But if you have to wait five seconds. 443 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 4: For keypress and then you're not one hundred percent it's 444 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 4: statistically true, but it's not ninety nine percent true, then 445 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 4: it's not a practical communication device. So we're getting closer 446 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 4: and closer to having, you know, eventually an airplane that 447 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 4: would fly. And I say we it's not just we 448 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 4: as you know, the team that I lead, but we 449 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 4: as humanity and also them to be able to together 450 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 4: with us produce those kinds of effects. We're in the process. 451 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 4: I'm hoping that by the end of the summer or 452 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 4: early fall is we're going to have a book tendatively 453 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,440 Speaker 4: called the Soul Phone Experiments that lays out enough of 454 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 4: the research and the case for the soul phone, including 455 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 4: its opportunities and its pitfalls, which includes its potential abuse. 456 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 4: This is not a technology that should be quote available 457 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 4: until we can treat it with the reverence, respect, gratitude 458 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 4: for being able to have such an opportunity. 459 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 3: The question was then asked to doctor Schwartz, what can 460 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 3: mediums and researchers learn from each other? 461 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 4: Oh? Boy, that is a beautiful question. First of all, 462 00:32:55,240 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 4: let's assume that we have genuinely open minded, curious and 463 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 4: willing to be educated researchers who are not coming and 464 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 4: thinking they know the answers or that their explanations are correct. 465 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 4: They approach what a spiritualist for example, a medium and 466 00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 4: someone who is a broad to spiritual can share with them, 467 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,800 Speaker 4: so they'll listen with an open mind and an open heart. 468 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 4: To call that loving openness. As my writing partner once 469 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 4: referred to me for the Flife Experiment's book as well 470 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 4: as the Aeriblical, the Energy Healing Experiments, and also the 471 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 4: Good Experiments, Hughes to describe me as being an Orthodox agnostic, 472 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 4: and what he meant by that was whether the question 473 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 4: was is there gravity or is there God? My response is, 474 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 4: I don't know, could be as could be. No. Show 475 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 4: me the data. I'm open. And the plus side of 476 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 4: being an Orthodox agnostic is that you're willing to listen 477 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,000 Speaker 4: to anything. You're willing to entertain, You're willing to be wrong, 478 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 4: You're willing to you have humility, you're willing to enter. 479 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 4: You know, you're seeking the truth, that you're going to 480 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 4: follow the data where it takes you. You're not going 481 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:13,320 Speaker 4: to be pre judging whether something is true or not. 482 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,960 Speaker 4: And I've discovered that makes actually for a very good 483 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 4: scientist because it leads you to be open to surprises 484 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 4: and to be you know, willing to change your mind 485 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 4: as a function of what you learn. The downside by 486 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 4: the way turns out to be personal because if you 487 00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 4: have quoted a disease called science, which I do, I 488 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 4: call it a disease because I am on a sidebar 489 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 4: and sayd what do I mean by disease? Because I 490 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 4: sort of can't help myself. Somebody tells me something something, 491 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 4: They'll share some quote, curious idea or experience I have 492 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 4: or I'm crazy, whatever, And what will happen is I'll 493 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 4: hear their experience. It will then get translated into a question. 494 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 4: Then a question will become a hypothesis. Then what ideas 495 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,239 Speaker 4: will suggest themselves about how way that you can rest 496 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 4: this question? And then a thought experiment will pop into 497 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,160 Speaker 4: my head if I had time, I had the money, resources, 498 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 4: and so whether I could do the experiment? And then 499 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,879 Speaker 4: what can I conclude it? It's so much of who 500 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 4: I am, and I've been doing it for so many years, decades, 501 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 4: I sort of can't not do it. It's just part 502 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 4: of who I am. I met actually a neurosurgeon a 503 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:25,439 Speaker 4: few years ago, was very spiritually oriented, and I told 504 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,719 Speaker 4: him about my disease and he gave it an official diagnosis. 505 00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,319 Speaker 4: He calls it scientitis, which I thought was pretty good. 506 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 4: And so I have a chronic case of scientitis. I 507 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 4: don't think it's treatable, but even if it was, I 508 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,280 Speaker 4: would not seek the treatment. So anyway, you need scientists 509 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:46,440 Speaker 4: who are going to be open and we're going to 510 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 4: listen with an open mind and a heart and say 511 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 4: and say, okay, what would this mean? How would we 512 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 4: go about testing this, How could we know or not 513 00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 4: know whether it's true? What meaning would this have for 514 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 4: the things that we know, whatever field it is, psychology, biology, physics, whatever, 515 00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,120 Speaker 4: Based on what this means, you need an open minded scientist. 516 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 4: But then you also need open minded people in spirituality, 517 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 4: people who are also willing to be open to learn, 518 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 4: to recognize that not everything that they were taught is 519 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 4: necessarily the whole truth, is not necessarily completely accurate, and 520 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 4: that all of us should be forgiven for our relative 521 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 4: lack of knowledge or relative lack of discernment about what's 522 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,600 Speaker 4: the wheat and what's the chaff, what's the core essence 523 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,800 Speaker 4: and what's not. But if you can bring such a 524 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 4: team of people together under the optimal conditions, the opportunity 525 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 4: for mutual education and growth, both personally and professionally and 526 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 4: in service to the greater good both Here in the 527 00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,839 Speaker 4: quote there is huge I think. 528 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 3: Next, doctor Schwartz was asked, are there any ethical concerns 529 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 3: that should be considered and where do you see the 530 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 3: future of survival research. 531 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 4: Oh, I am not a medium. I do not see 532 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 4: or hear spirit under most circumstances. Instead of joke and say, 533 00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,520 Speaker 4: I'm like a blind man studying color vision, I have 534 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,120 Speaker 4: to depend on people who can see to give me 535 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 4: the core phenomena that ask questions about to seek answers to. 536 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 4: In terms of potential abuse, there are many. I think 537 00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 4: the greatest abuse would be people who would get hold 538 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 4: of this technology. And I'm not talking about abuse as 539 00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 4: in abuse in terms of having false technology or a 540 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,759 Speaker 4: lot of people make claims that they have an app 541 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,640 Speaker 4: that can connect with spirit or device spirit. They make 542 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 4: extraordinary claims in the absence of extraordinary evidence. That's one 543 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 4: level of abuse. But I'm talking abuse of if we 544 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 4: actually have a real technology, And one of my primary 545 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 4: concerns has to do with people who would use it 546 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 4: for political or military aims, particularly in the area of 547 00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 4: spying and in also identity theft, and of course, the 548 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 4: only way that you can anticipate potential abuse is to 549 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 4: imagine you have technology and say, okay, if I wanted 550 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 4: to use it for various purposes, what kinds of things 551 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 4: could I do with it? And so the kinds of 552 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 4: issues that are arising with AI in terms of unanticipated 553 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 4: potential negative consequences for society, the soul phone, if it 554 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 4: were to become real, would need substantial safeguards in order 555 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 4: to minimize its abuse. Both here end quote there. Right now, 556 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 4: we're fortunate that we don't have a breakthrough technology. So 557 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 4: it's not like we're the runaway train hasn't started yet. 558 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 4: But my feeling is, and if I put a spiritual 559 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 4: hat on that, it could be that the reason why 560 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 4: we don't have a breakthrough yet is because we don't 561 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,279 Speaker 4: have the safeguards in place. First. So if there's a 562 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:18,560 Speaker 4: higher intelligence, of divine intelligence, and in particular with this 563 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 4: technology wishes to as wisdom, not just intelligence, but wisdom, 564 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 4: it would hopefully help us grow to be better stewards 565 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 4: and caretakers of ourselves and the planet before we were 566 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 4: given the keys to this technology. 567 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 3: This is a good opportunity for our last break and 568 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 3: when we come back, we'll hear words from doctor Schwartz 569 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,440 Speaker 3: as to where he thinks the research into the survival 570 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:55,160 Speaker 3: of consciousness will go. This is a rare opportunity to 571 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,719 Speaker 3: hear from one of the greats and to get a 572 00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,040 Speaker 3: little insight into his mind and how it works. So 573 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 3: we'll be right back. You're listening to Shades of the 574 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 3: Afterlife on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 575 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 3: Podcast Network. 576 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:19,960 Speaker 9: Stay right there, there's more Sandra coming right out before 577 00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,440 Speaker 9: the Art Belvault has classic audio waiting for you. Now 578 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 9: go to Coast to Coast AM dot com forward details. 579 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's the Wizard of Weird Joshua P. Warren 580 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: and you're listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast 581 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 582 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 3: Welcome back to Shades of the Afterlife. I'm Sandra Champlain 583 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 3: and before we continue with doctor Gary Schwartz, a couple 584 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,680 Speaker 3: of websites I think you may enjoy the Soul Phone 585 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:19,359 Speaker 3: Foundation dot org. It's a great way to keep your 586 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,839 Speaker 3: eye on what's happening with the soul Phone. You can 587 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 3: get involved. You can click on the about link and 588 00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 3: click on Gary Schwartz, PhD. You can read some of 589 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,440 Speaker 3: his books, including The Afterlife experiments, which is what I'm 590 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,560 Speaker 3: currently reading. Also, I encourage you to follow our friends 591 00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 3: at the International Spiritualist Federation. Their website is THEISF dot 592 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 3: co dot UK. Or an easy thing to remember is 593 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 3: go subscribe to their YouTube channel. There's only a few 594 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 3: videos on there now, but I expect great things from them, 595 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 3: and that's easy to remember ISF Science Forum. So let's 596 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 3: continue with doctor Schwartz. 597 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,320 Speaker 4: In terms of your question about where survival of research 598 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,400 Speaker 4: is going to go, I think that there's the issues 599 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,319 Speaker 4: of knowing that it's here, knowing it's real, and all 600 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 4: the transformations that could take place in terms of one 601 00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:32,840 Speaker 4: of two of my favorite and extremely difficult challenges for humanity, 602 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 4: especially if a soul phone comes along. But even if 603 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 4: it doesn't, the first thing has to do with if 604 00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,439 Speaker 4: there is no death, there's only transformation, then the way 605 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:48,760 Speaker 4: that we allow people to die presently is truly savage 606 00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 4: and horrific. The truth is we're kinder to our pets 607 00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 4: than we are to our parents, and so the notion 608 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,640 Speaker 4: of dying with dignity and being able to physically transition 609 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:02,799 Speaker 4: in a way that you could be prepared and look 610 00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 4: forward to future evolution would affect the grieving process. Obviously, 611 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 4: there's all that whole area. A second area has to 612 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 4: do with increasing integrity for maintaining relationships, including both abuses 613 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:31,000 Speaker 4: of inheritance and also people's even their names, defamation, the 614 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,120 Speaker 4: phenomenon of defamation. It's good enough to to fame someone 615 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:40,000 Speaker 4: if it's false when they're alive, but it also is 616 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:43,000 Speaker 4: really horrific if you do it when somebody is deceased, 617 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 4: because not only does it hurt the people who are 618 00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 4: living that love them, but it also hurts those who 619 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,960 Speaker 4: have died. You can say, well, people don't care anymore 620 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,800 Speaker 4: about what you think about them, but they care that 621 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,520 Speaker 4: their loved ones are hurt and are being hurt, and 622 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 4: they also care about truth, and caring about truth doesn't 623 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 4: just disappear because you've transitioned to another state of being. Also, 624 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,439 Speaker 4: you know, very often, for example, money has been given 625 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,799 Speaker 4: to people's wills and then their children fight over how 626 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,800 Speaker 4: it's going to be used, or even worse, money is 627 00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,759 Speaker 4: given for causes. You know, you to take some of 628 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,200 Speaker 4: the quote wealth that you've accumulated, and you wanted to 629 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 4: go to university to support particular research or to support 630 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 4: a particular charity, and then after the person has died 631 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:40,160 Speaker 4: and the money gets read reapported for some other purpose. Well, 632 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,319 Speaker 4: you know, to what extent do you have the right 633 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 4: if you haven't died. Is there some way that you 634 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 4: should be able to have some say in how your 635 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 4: funds are spent after you've passed, or what if you 636 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 4: come up with the technology you're a scientist, do you 637 00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,120 Speaker 4: come up with some application that would benefit humanity and 638 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,399 Speaker 4: you help humanity to develop that technology if you want, 639 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 4: should you have some say in how it's developed, particularly 640 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 4: it's going to be used for purposes that are not 641 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,439 Speaker 4: in your ideal. And you can even ask the question 642 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 4: about well, if it's quote your idea, shouldn't you have 643 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,120 Speaker 4: the right. For example, if some of those funds were yours, 644 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 4: if you were here in the physical maybe you'd like 645 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,640 Speaker 4: to have those funds given to your grandchildren. Albeit but 646 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,319 Speaker 4: you've now done it from the other side. There are 647 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:38,879 Speaker 4: so many questions that become put on the table once 648 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 4: we start thinking about, well, what if the public began 649 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,959 Speaker 4: to really accept that this was real? Are their post 650 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:52,440 Speaker 4: pecular person's rights? Are their responsibilities? Huge questions and I 651 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,480 Speaker 4: think they will require a lot of reflection. 652 00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,480 Speaker 3: And when doctor Schwartz was asked what motivates him to 653 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:03,480 Speaker 3: research mediums and survival. Here's what he has to say. 654 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:09,320 Speaker 4: It is, first and foremost fundamental truth seeking. I'm old fashioned, 655 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:14,960 Speaker 4: where I genuinely care about truth, regardless of what it is, 656 00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,239 Speaker 4: whether I like it, whether I dislike it, whether I 657 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,160 Speaker 4: approve of it or not approof of it. One of 658 00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 4: the greatest gifts we as humans have is the capacity 659 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,000 Speaker 4: to learn things and know whether something's real or not. 660 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 4: It doesn't really matter whether it's survival of consciousness or 661 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 4: the existence of angels or any other spiritual realm or 662 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:39,360 Speaker 4: anything in the physical world. Part of the driving force, 663 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:43,319 Speaker 4: of course, is truth seeking. That's number one. Number two 664 00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 4: is a sense of responsibility to seek truth that is 665 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 4: of service to humanity and the greater good. You can 666 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 4: say it's an ethical sense, it's a spiritual sense. I 667 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:59,239 Speaker 4: can see approach it from different points of view. For me, 668 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,280 Speaker 4: they're sell all merged because they're all pointing in that direction. 669 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 4: But to the extent that you can do things that 670 00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 4: are quote win win, win, win win. They win for 671 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,160 Speaker 4: the individual, and they win for relationships, and they win 672 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 4: for larger elements of society, but also are good for now, 673 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,600 Speaker 4: not just the person in their physical form. You take 674 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:24,440 Speaker 4: a longer and bigger view. So even though I am 675 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 4: not a pastor, I am not a religious person in 676 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 4: that sense. I went into psychology caring about the human 677 00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 4: mind and the human heart, and then when I discovered 678 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 4: that that mind that heart continues after physical death, I 679 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,880 Speaker 4: cared about people's minds and hearts i e. Quote, their souls, 680 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,520 Speaker 4: whether they're here or there, and to the extent that 681 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,920 Speaker 4: what you do here has bearing on there, and what 682 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,200 Speaker 4: you do there has buried on here, especially if there's 683 00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 4: a recycling process. I'm in an evolution process. Then this 684 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,480 Speaker 4: is probably one of the most important issues facing humanity, 685 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 4: and we do a lot of very unfortunate things to 686 00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 4: each other because we don't know. Out of ignorance my 687 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,280 Speaker 4: motivation for this, I began to see it was much bigger, 688 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 4: it'd be in a much larger context, and therefore felt 689 00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,279 Speaker 4: it was really important. Also, so it's not just to 690 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,120 Speaker 4: help a grieving parent make peace with the fact that 691 00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,799 Speaker 4: their child may have died, also maybe have them look 692 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,040 Speaker 4: forward to being able to be reunited with their child 693 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,279 Speaker 4: if they like, in the future, or even continuing a 694 00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,839 Speaker 4: relationship with them right now if they wish, Yes, all 695 00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 4: of that's very important to me. But it's not just 696 00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:41,160 Speaker 4: simply reducing people's pain and suffering. It's much broader. And 697 00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 4: I also see what I put on a bigger lens, 698 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 4: that survival of consciousness is a step to even bigger questions. 699 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,399 Speaker 4: So for me, I happen to have a I'll call 700 00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 4: this this is a calle pet interest, no pun invented, 701 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,320 Speaker 4: and not just a pet interest in survivor level of 702 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,359 Speaker 4: consciousness of your pets and you know, animals and all 703 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,400 Speaker 4: that kind of stuff. But I have a pet interest 704 00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 4: in the what I call the saint hypothesis, the idea 705 00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,759 Speaker 4: that certain people who are quote bigger than life in 706 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 4: this life, who are deeply loving and caring, that they 707 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,759 Speaker 4: can be given the opportunity and choose to continue to 708 00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,520 Speaker 4: be of service to people on this planet, for example, 709 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:25,280 Speaker 4: if they wish in the form of in a religious context, 710 00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 4: and that there may be truth to the idea that 711 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:32,239 Speaker 4: you can pray to specific saints with the right intentions 712 00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 4: and will sometimes receive guidance and help from these people 713 00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,840 Speaker 4: who are so caring. If that was true, it places 714 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:48,040 Speaker 4: quote humanity in a higher, greater light and then imagine 715 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 4: that there are even higher beings the quote Angel hypothesis, 716 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:54,840 Speaker 4: and I publish a book in twenty eleven called The 717 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 4: Sacred Promise, How Science is Discovering Spirits collaboration with this 718 00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,040 Speaker 4: in our day the Lives. With the last quarter of 719 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,680 Speaker 4: the book, I applied it to the quote angel hypothesis, 720 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,680 Speaker 4: and I showed that you could apply the technology that 721 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:14,239 Speaker 4: we've been developing, both in mediumship and with actual technology 722 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 4: to detect the presence of physical people and extend that 723 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:25,120 Speaker 4: to angels to the extent that they wished to collaborate 724 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 4: in research, and they wished their presence to be known. 725 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 4: For me, my motivation is multi level, and I think 726 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,239 Speaker 4: on top of that, I then feel a moral and 727 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 4: ethical responsibility to continue to play a role in nurturing 728 00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 4: that to unfold. Although you know, I would prefer there 729 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 4: to be saints, prefer to be angels. I'd rather there 730 00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:57,160 Speaker 4: be a universe of an infinitely compassionate and intelligent mind. 731 00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:59,960 Speaker 4: My job as a scientist is not to confirm the 732 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,719 Speaker 4: way I wish the universe to be. My responsibility is 733 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:08,719 Speaker 4: to help contribute to understanding how it really is. And 734 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,360 Speaker 4: so that's what I consider to be my more of 735 00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,239 Speaker 4: an ethical job. But to the extent that these good 736 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,560 Speaker 4: things are on the horizon and the evidence is pointed 737 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:22,320 Speaker 4: that way, then I feel an add responsibility and gift 738 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,520 Speaker 4: of the opportunity to play a small role in that process. 739 00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,400 Speaker 3: Good things certainly are on the horizon. Just remember to 740 00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:35,680 Speaker 3: go visit the Soul Phonefoundation dot org and our new 741 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:41,439 Speaker 3: friends at THEISF dot co dot UK, or next time 742 00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:46,400 Speaker 3: on YouTube just type in ISF Science Forum. Keep an 743 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,960 Speaker 3: eye on them. Good things to come. I feel the 744 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:55,320 Speaker 3: same as doctor Schwartz. It's our responsibility to continue to explore, 745 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,240 Speaker 3: to continue to share. I love what he said about 746 00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 3: Wilbur and Orville write it was about one hundred and 747 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,520 Speaker 3: twenty years ago when the first flight was taken, and 748 00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,319 Speaker 3: look where we are now. When you take a flight, 749 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,360 Speaker 3: do you ever think about Orville and Wilbur? I sure do, 750 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,080 Speaker 3: because I think of the conversation being changed about the afterlife. 751 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,879 Speaker 3: I know it won't be one hundred and twenty years 752 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:22,920 Speaker 3: from now. It will be much much sooner, probably in 753 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:27,319 Speaker 3: our lifetimes when most people are communicating with their loved 754 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,120 Speaker 3: ones and feel confident about the afterlife. So you bet 755 00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,400 Speaker 3: I'm going to do everything I can to share everything 756 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 3: and everyone that I know with that Avery reminder to 757 00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:42,200 Speaker 3: come visit me. Come visit our Sunday gathering. Join about 758 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,520 Speaker 3: fifteen minutes early so you can say hello. That's our 759 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 3: non denominational Sunday service with a Flair Medium demonstration, great music, 760 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,280 Speaker 3: and it's a lot of fun. Take a medium class, 761 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,479 Speaker 3: see what we have going on. Join our Facebook group. 762 00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:03,520 Speaker 3: Just go to Don'tdie dot com. Good things there and 763 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:07,480 Speaker 3: so much more. I'm Sandra Champlain. I really want to 764 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:11,160 Speaker 3: thank you for listening to Shades of the Afterlife on 765 00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,600 Speaker 3: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal Podcast Network. 766 00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:25,880 Speaker 2: And if you like this episode of Shades of the Afterlife, 767 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,320 Speaker 2: wait until you hear the next one. Thank you for 768 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 2: listening to the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal 769 00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:32,880 Speaker 2: Podcast Network.