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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.

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Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abusive power

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Speaker 2: that you'd like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trustmepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 2: Trust me, Trust trust me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived to you, and we.

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Speaker 1: Never have a live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to Trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and manipulation from two actors who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 4: I'm lo Le Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: And today our guest is Abigail Katuonas she's a former

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Speaker 2: member of Gloria Gifford's Conservatory for the Performing Arts, which

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Speaker 2: Megan also attended. What they'll both share stories of what

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Speaker 2: they saw and were subjected to, including classes that would

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Speaker 2: go on for hours, public humiliation, the unusual levels of

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Speaker 2: control Gloriah over her members' lives, and more.

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Speaker 1: Abigail will share how much money and time she invested

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Speaker 1: into her education with Gloria and missing nearly every Christmas

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Speaker 1: with her family for over a decade.

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Speaker 4: We'll also discuss Gloria's ties.

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Speaker 1: To scientology and the Hollywood Reporter article in which numerous

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Speaker 1: former students spoke.

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Speaker 2: Out yes lots to get into today very relevant to

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Speaker 2: the lives of Angelino's I fucking hate the term Angelina?

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Speaker 2: Why do I hate that so much? The lives of

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Speaker 2: people living in la It's not cool. It's not cool,

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Speaker 2: And we will get into all of it shortly, and.

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Speaker 4: We will tell you why it's not cool, but first

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Speaker 4: we will.

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Speaker 2: But first let's talk about what is cool or maybe

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Speaker 2: is not cool, depending what is your cold deuce thing

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Speaker 2: this week?

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Speaker 1: Okay, I kept mine kind of in the arts related,

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Speaker 1: but I've been seeing online that this artist in London,

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Speaker 1: his name is Damien Hurst. He made these special like

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Speaker 1: dot paintings, right, and he said you can either keep

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Speaker 1: it as an NFT and burn the original, or you

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Speaker 1: can keep the original and he takes away the NFT.

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Speaker 1: So it kind of started. From what I'm reading this,

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Speaker 1: people got culty about it. Apparently, like the arguments between

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Speaker 1: is something material more valuable than something that's not got

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Speaker 1: really heated so it's very interesting. The art world can

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Speaker 1: get very culty very quickly.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, so basically he's saying like that my art

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Speaker 2: can only exist in one form or the other, and

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Speaker 2: you can choose if you buy it.

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Speaker 1: People who only believe in physical art get very upset

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Speaker 1: at the idea of you burning it. Because he has

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Speaker 1: this gallery right now that he just put thirty six

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Speaker 1: million dollars into revamping, where he's just burning his art

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Speaker 1: if people chose to keep the NFTs, And they say,

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Speaker 1: he looks very much like a like a higher or

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Speaker 1: something like burning all this shit, and all these people

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Speaker 1: are waiting.

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Speaker 4: In line to watch it happen. But then he goes.

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Speaker 1: But people who who believe in NFTs celebrate when you

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Speaker 1: burn the actual paintings. So those people are choosing to

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Speaker 1: have it exist in a different realm.

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Speaker 4: And it just it sparked stuff for people.

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Speaker 2: What did it spark for you?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess just this deep, deep distrust of NFTs.

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Speaker 1: I'm very much that you shouldn't burn physical artwork and

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Speaker 1: that you know me too.

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Speaker 2: It feels bad. Are we being antiquated and old?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, we're old.

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Speaker 2: But I'm like something just like, inherently, if there's only

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Speaker 2: one of it versus many, many easily reproducible copies, Like,

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Speaker 2: isn't that yeah, the scarcity of that, doesn't that inherently

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Speaker 2: create more value?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 1: So they they cost seventeen hundred pounds, but then now

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Speaker 1: they're worth forty two thousand pounds.

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Speaker 2: The NFTs, I just like, I hear n FT and

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Speaker 2: I hear CRYPTO, and like my eye twitches and I don't, like,

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Speaker 2: I know that that's not like I know, I'm probably

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Speaker 2: just like living in the past or whatever, but that

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Speaker 2: is like I'm like, I.

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Speaker 1: Don't like, it's.

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Speaker 4: Not for me.

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Speaker 1: It kind of brought up some like wow, the future's scary,

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Speaker 1: but you know it's fine.

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Speaker 3: What about you?

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Speaker 2: I mean deep fakes? Yeah, well I know, I know

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Speaker 2: what about me? Okay? So I realized that I am

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Speaker 2: a very strong, infirm and believer in nonviolent communication. Do

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Speaker 2: you know about this like book and practice and stuff.

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Speaker 4: Is it for raising children or is it something different?

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Speaker 2: It's for any kind of relationship communication. It can like

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Speaker 2: it's used in schools, jails, relationships like whatever. Sure, wherever

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Speaker 2: you need to communicate, which is everywhere. Here's the thing.

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Speaker 2: This guy who made who invented it? In quotes, He's

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Speaker 2: just like made a concrete system out of what all

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Speaker 2: therapists say anyway, which is like speak in eye statements,

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Speaker 2: validate each other's feelings, make right clear asks of your

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Speaker 2: partner or whatever. But I it's the it's just like

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Speaker 2: basically a short cut. I feel like I didn't even

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Speaker 2: finish the book, but I know the basic principles and

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Speaker 2: I've read a good chunk of it. It's just a

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Speaker 2: short cut as opposed to having to explain like, well,

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Speaker 2: here's why you need to be like because the make

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Speaker 2: people feel validated, Like it just makes it really clear

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Speaker 2: what is the best form of communication to not make

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Speaker 2: people defensive and to make them feel heard and like

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Speaker 2: have actual constructive communication. Yeah, And I just realized that

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Speaker 2: the way that I talk about it is a little

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Speaker 2: bit culty because I'm just always like, well, have you

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Speaker 2: read this book? Well have you read this book? Well,

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Speaker 2: you know you're having problems. There's this great book. But

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Speaker 2: it's again, it's like it's not that it's the book

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Speaker 2: that it's just like it boils down these principles. So

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Speaker 2: the model is when I see that blank, I feel

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Speaker 2: blank because my need for blank is or is not met.

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Speaker 2: Would you be willing to blank? So it's just like

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Speaker 2: you're saying very specifically, when you do this thing or

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Speaker 2: when I see this thing, it makes me feel this

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Speaker 2: other thing, as opposed to just saying you suck you

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Speaker 2: make me feel bad. It's like, no, this specific action

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Speaker 2: makes me feel this specific thing because there's a need

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Speaker 2: that I have. So would you make an alteration in

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Speaker 2: the future. I feel like most communication goes wrong when

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Speaker 2: we're just like you did this, but you did this,

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Speaker 2: but you did this, but you did this, and we

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Speaker 2: all are just like our identities we're getting like those

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Speaker 2: identity hits that are sociopath guests talked about that one time,

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Speaker 2: where we just like don't feel like we're being valued

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Speaker 2: or understood or heard anyway. It's a great shortcut to

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Speaker 2: like just learning how to be a better communicator. In

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Speaker 2: my opinion, I'm in the NVC cult. You guys, Oh,

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna read it. I haven't yet.

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Speaker 2: I feel like every person in a relationship should read it.

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Speaker 2: Even when I listened to Esther Perel, have you heard

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Speaker 2: that podcast? No Where should We begin?

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Speaker 1: I thought you were gonna say Esther heix Orm Abraham

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Speaker 1: Hex and I got excited.

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Speaker 2: Nope, definitely was not.

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Speaker 5: No.

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Speaker 2: Esther Perel is a relationship sex therapist woman who wrote

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Speaker 2: this book called Meeting in Captivity, which is just about

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Speaker 2: how we you know, whatever intimacy and passion or sort

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Speaker 2: of conflicting needs. Anyway. She has this great podcast about

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Speaker 2: relationships and when you hear her talk to her clients

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Speaker 2: like these are they just like this stuff just organically

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Speaker 2: comes up, like the healthiest way to communicate looks kind

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Speaker 2: of the same every time, and we just kind of

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Speaker 2: talk about it differently depending on who our therapist is

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Speaker 2: or what book we read or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Interesting. I can't wait to read it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's all. That's my spiel.

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Speaker 1: Well, should we get into the spiela Gloria set it.

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Speaker 2: Welcome, Abigail Kachunas, thank you, trust me, thank you for

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Speaker 2: being here and for joining us in person. Just so nice.

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Speaker 2: You don't get to do that very often.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nice.

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Speaker 2: Wow, we have a lot to get into and I

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Speaker 2: cannot wait.

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Speaker 3: To hear the details.

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Speaker 2: You guys, this is something that Megan is going to

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Speaker 2: be able to participate in the discussion of because Meghan

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Speaker 2: was also a part of this class for six months. So,

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Speaker 2: ab Gail, why don't you start us off by telling

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Speaker 2: us what was this acting class? How did you hear

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Speaker 2: of it? What was going on in your life?

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Speaker 5: I had recently moved to La I was just like

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Speaker 5: working at a restaurant, trying to find it, you know,

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Speaker 5: an acting class.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I should be an acting class. I

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Speaker 3: want to take this seriously.

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Speaker 5: And I was just asking people that I worked with,

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Speaker 5: and I asked a couple of coworkers and they gave

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Speaker 5: me some suggestions. And I think I interviewed at two places,

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Speaker 5: and her school was one of them. Did we say

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Speaker 5: her name? I'm sorry, Oh, you know, we haven't tell

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Speaker 5: us who has.

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Speaker 3: The Gloria Gifford Conservatory? Okay, Gloria Gifford is the teacher.

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Speaker 5: She was teaching in Italy at the time, so I

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Speaker 5: didn't meet her, and I interviewed with two of her

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Speaker 5: veterans students. One of them was a veteran for I'm

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Speaker 5: guessing at least fifteen years.

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Speaker 4: His name start with a B. Yes, okay, great, that's

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Speaker 4: who veteraned me, That's who veteraned you. It's a verb.

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Speaker 5: And he was one of the officers of her class

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Speaker 5: officer just meaning he has specific responsibilities. There were different officers,

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Speaker 5: there were ethics officers, finance officers, bookings officer. Before I left,

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Speaker 5: I was one of the officers. I was a bookings officer,

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Speaker 5: which means you were responsible for booking the scenes. Anyway,

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Speaker 5: interviewed with him and another girl who she was just

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Speaker 5: a student and she later became my friend. She's also

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Speaker 5: no longer in the class, and every question that I

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Speaker 5: asked they seemed to have the answer that made sense

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Speaker 5: to me, and I thought, Okay, I'm gonna give this

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Speaker 5: a try. And it was in class for maybe a

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Speaker 5: month or two before she returned. And when she returned,

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Speaker 5: we like went into the theater and I remember like

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Speaker 5: where I was sitting when she walked in, like it's

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Speaker 5: like imprinted in my brain, and everyone like stood up

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Speaker 5: and was like what like applauding and clapping.

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Speaker 3: And cheering, and I'm like, oh, that's that's wow, Okay great.

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Speaker 5: You know, I'm excited too to kind of like uh

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Speaker 5: get the high of it.

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Speaker 3: And I remember meeting her and feeling that she.

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Speaker 5: Was like very powerful and very charismatic, and she was

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Speaker 5: very direct, very outspoken, a little bit controversial, like not

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Speaker 5: afraid to say stuff. And I was like, whoa, I

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Speaker 5: love that, you know what I mean, like just kind

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Speaker 5: of wild it out there. And so it was very

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Speaker 5: attractive to me because where I was in my life

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Speaker 5: is I had come out of modeling in New York

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Speaker 5: as a teenager and I decaid I was going to

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Speaker 5: finish school, went to school, and I thought, god, I

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Speaker 5: still got this like itch, Like I thought I didn't

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Speaker 5: want to be in the business, and I was like, no,

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Speaker 5: I want to be in the business. So I came

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Speaker 5: to LA and I was feeling a little lost, a

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Speaker 5: little like spastic, and you know, I was still like

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Speaker 5: drinking and I was trying to remove drugs from my life.

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Speaker 5: And I was like, I need to be in a good,

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Speaker 5: positive environment, and that's what that felt like. So I

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Speaker 5: was already in a position of feeling like I need

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Speaker 5: some help and some assistance to get better and get clearer,

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Speaker 5: and it seemed like the right environment. So that's how

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Speaker 5: I ended up there and was primed for what followed.

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Speaker 4: And I will, I mean priming is a perfect word

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Speaker 4: for it.

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Speaker 1: For example, I will one of the first exercises I

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Speaker 1: remember her having us do was like telling all of

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Speaker 1: our secrets.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, before we dive into the goings on first

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Speaker 2: of all, Like it's so funny. I feel like just

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Speaker 2: today someone was like, oh, have you heard about the

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Speaker 2: so and so acting workshop That got really culty, Like

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Speaker 2: this is a really a thing in Los Angeles. And

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Speaker 2: it's interesting because for most cults, like there's some specific

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Speaker 2: reason that you'd want to join or think that they're

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Speaker 2: offering whatever. For actors, you're just kind of supposed to

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Speaker 2: be working on your acting. You're supposed to join an

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Speaker 2: acting class. There's nothing like broken in you that leads

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Speaker 2: you to join an acting class. It's like what you

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Speaker 2: do to work on your craft unless you're auditioning every

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Speaker 2: fucking day, which no one is unless they're incredibly lucky

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Speaker 2: and fuck that person.

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Speaker 4: And they're ongoing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not going too like there's no and

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Speaker 1: then you graduate.

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Speaker 2: Right because it's like you're supposed to always be keeping

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Speaker 2: that muscle warm. It's not like a skill that you

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Speaker 2: just go to school for fucking accounting and then you

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Speaker 2: know how to account like you No, it's like an

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Speaker 2: emotional thing. You have to tap into it, so you

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Speaker 2: need the thinking is that you need to be always

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Speaker 2: brushing up on how to get to that place emotionally.

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Speaker 3: Like how a yogi will go to yoga class.

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Speaker 5: You want to stay loose and flexible and you know whatever,

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Speaker 5: it's part of your training.

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Speaker 2: I guess, Yeah, Megan, how did you end up going?

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Speaker 1: I went to a god Okay, I went to a

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Speaker 1: movie screening and I sat by this guy and he

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Speaker 1: was like, it would be so fun if you tried acting.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever tried it? Because I started talking to

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Speaker 1: him about being raised with that a television and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff, and I was like, no, never.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to be an actor. And it's like

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Speaker 4: I know this woman, she is so amazing, and you.

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Speaker 1: Should go to her class because it's not just acting,

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Speaker 1: it's like a lifestyle and whatever.

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Speaker 3: It is the lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I'll go, like meet some cool people and learn

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Speaker 1: under this woman you think is so cool.

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Speaker 4: So I drove out to the valley and it was

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Speaker 4: at her house.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was at her house, and you were already.

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Speaker 4: In it when I came in. This was like fifteen

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Speaker 4: sixteen years ago, which is so wild.

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Speaker 2: And what did you think when you first joined? Like

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Speaker 2: how did it feel?

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Speaker 4: Was it helpful?

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Speaker 5: I found it very helpful, and I'll go into more

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Speaker 5: of this later, but she would talk a lot about

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Speaker 5: scientology without saying it was scientology in class, and I

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Speaker 5: was kind of intrigued by that. Because I grew up

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Speaker 5: very like spiritually and religiously aware. I was always like

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Speaker 5: learning about different religions just that's that's how my parents

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Speaker 5: raised me, kind of to be open minded and practice

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Speaker 5: different things, you know, Pagan Buddhism, Christianity.

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Speaker 3: Everything sick.

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Speaker 5: So I was very like open, like, oh, what's this, Okay,

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Speaker 5: I want to learn about this because I'm a seeker.

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Speaker 5: I just want to know the answers to the universe.

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Speaker 5: And she would talk about these things and I was like, huh, okay,

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Speaker 5: well that's interesting, and I would ask her about them.

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Speaker 5: And she also spent a lot of one on one

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Speaker 5: time with me, which some people will call love bombing.

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Speaker 5: I didn't know what that term was until recently in

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Speaker 5: the last year or so. So she would pay a

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Speaker 5: lot of attention to me. I remember she invited me

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Speaker 5: to go with her to see an old student's play

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Speaker 5: and then took me out to dinner, and that's where

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Speaker 5: I was like, I kept asking her.

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Speaker 3: About the scientologist.

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Speaker 5: She was like, well, I'll take you there, you know,

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Speaker 5: and so you know, I went, and of course, like

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Speaker 5: because it's Celebrity Center and she's a celebrity, you get

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Speaker 5: like the red carpet treatment, Like you go in through

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Speaker 5: the President's office, which is the way the public enters,

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Speaker 5: so it's like a whole thing.

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Speaker 3: So I felt So I just felt very like taken

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Speaker 3: care of and very looked after.

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Speaker 5: And you know, she would sit with you after class

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Speaker 5: and like have a conversation with you. I remember one

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Speaker 5: time I was really upset about something. She took me

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Speaker 5: out to dinner. She asked me these very personal questions

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Speaker 5: about my life and a very private traumatic event that

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Speaker 5: happened to me when I was nineteen, and you just

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Speaker 5: I just shared everything because I felt like I trusted her.

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Speaker 5: She was very empathetic and very you know, just listening

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Speaker 5: and always seemed to have a solution or an answer.

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Speaker 5: And she was very motivational in the way that she

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Speaker 5: spoke and very inspirational in terms of like getting your career.

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Speaker 3: Going and this is how you do it, and anyone

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Speaker 3: can do it.

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Speaker 5: And you know, her story of like I was the

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Speaker 5: first black woman at Bloomingdale's to be an executive and

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Speaker 5: I integrated Daytona Beach, Florida. And you know, she would

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Speaker 5: tell these always in her open classes, Like in class

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Speaker 5: all the times you think, wow, look at this, you know,

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Speaker 5: single mother who was on Broadway four years after she

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Speaker 5: started acting, Like, that's drive and that's incredible. I want

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Speaker 5: to be around that. And to be fair, I did

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Speaker 5: learn to act in that class. Right, If that's something

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Speaker 5: you can actually learn, I think it's more like sculpting

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Speaker 5: your natural talent. Yeah, but there's skills and a craft, absolutely,

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Speaker 5: and I did learn that there. But yeah, and I

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Speaker 5: found it to be all of those things. And I

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Speaker 5: was learning a lot, and I was It gave me

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Speaker 5: a purpose, and it gave me a sense of belonging,

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Speaker 5: and it.

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Speaker 3: Gave me a community.

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Speaker 5: Because I had the class, you had your scene partners,

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Speaker 5: so you were rehearsing.

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Speaker 3: So it gave you something to do. So instead of

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Speaker 3: just being like.

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Speaker 5: All I'm doing is going to some done side job

350
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Speaker 5: and being miserable, you're like, oh, you know, I finished

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Speaker 5: my side job and I get to go home and

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Speaker 5: read this script. And I have a movie of the

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Speaker 5: week I have to watch, and I have all this

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Speaker 5: research to do.

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Speaker 3: So it gave you something art like artistic fulfillment.

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Speaker 2: Right, and as actors who are only actors and just

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Speaker 2: focused on acting, like so much of your life is

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Speaker 2: like waiting for someone to pick you for an auditionit

359
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Speaker 2: and just like hoping, and there's just like, isn't a

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Speaker 2: lot of Like I know a lot of people wind

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Speaker 2: up feeling really aimless because they're like, I'm just fucking waiting,

362
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Speaker 2: just like.

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Speaker 3: What am I doing here?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: And not everybody wants to write or direct their own stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean half the people I know did it

367
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Speaker 2: started doing that out of necessity because you're not getting

368
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Speaker 2: acting jobs. I'm not going to just sit here.

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Speaker 3: I have to do something. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So acting class is one of the ways in which

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Speaker 2: many actors like get to use their skills and feel

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Speaker 2: creative and have purpose, you know, yeah, so go on.

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Speaker 5: Yeah gave me purpose, gave me a sense that I

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Speaker 5: was working towards a goal. She was very I think

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Speaker 5: you might remember this Megan with the admin So like

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Speaker 5: mailing out a postcard and like reaching out to casting directors.

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Speaker 5: I mean, the business has changed so much just in

378
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Speaker 5: that time. She always had something for you to do

379
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,080
Speaker 5: to take an action that you could take so that

380
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,000
Speaker 5: you felt like you were in control of your career

381
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 5: was a big, like I guess i'll say tenant of

382
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 5: her teaching huge and then also having you know, been

383
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Speaker 5: interested in the scientology and asking her about that and

384
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,400
Speaker 5: then finding that and then deciding, Yeah, this is something I.

385
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Speaker 3: Want to do. I want to explore this. And you know, one.

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Speaker 5: Of the first starter courses they put you on is

387
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,560
Speaker 5: is Personal Values and Integrity, which is, you know, you're

388
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Speaker 5: you write out all of your crimes, the things that

389
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Speaker 5: you feel like were wrong that you did.

390
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're like a belt what what? Yes, you write

391
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,479
Speaker 3: them down and you turn them in. Oh no, and

392
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Speaker 3: they go on a file.

393
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Speaker 2: What the five?

394
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Speaker 3: I mean, I've never murdered anyone, so honestly, like, I

395
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Speaker 3: don't you know what I mean. It's fine.

396
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Speaker 5: I mean I've I've I'm not an angel, but I

397
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,879
Speaker 5: and I've done I've done some things that I'm like

398
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 5: that was really shitty.

399
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Speaker 3: But you know what, at the end of the day,

400
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:52,400
Speaker 3: who hasn't right?

401
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, so file, Why didn't she tell you, guys, was

402
00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:57,240
Speaker 2: the purpose of this.

403
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,600
Speaker 3: Well that that was at the church. That's how the house.

404
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,200
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, scientology.

405
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, what were some of the things that she was

406
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: saying that were like hitting you from her scientology perspective.

407
00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:13,159
Speaker 5: Well, she would talk a lot about people like suppressing you,

408
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 5: or you that you were suppressed and that's why you

409
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,120
Speaker 5: weren't where you wanted to be in life. She would

410
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 5: often make friends or family the suppressor in your life,

411
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 5: so good.

412
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 2: Was their isolation in terms of like she would say,

413
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,080
Speaker 2: your friends and family were being suppressive.

414
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,040
Speaker 5: Like, yeah, it depended So it depended on like obviously

415
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,159
Speaker 5: in the beginning, she was really super nice to everyone

416
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,399
Speaker 5: in the beginning, and like the screaming and the yelling

417
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,720
Speaker 5: and the tough critiques didn't really start until a few

418
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,959
Speaker 5: years in. So I remember the first It was like

419
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:53,080
Speaker 5: two years in before I first experienced like full on rage,

420
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Speaker 5: and it was in private when I was driving her somewhere.

421
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Speaker 3: So it depended on like the background that.

422
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Speaker 5: The person came from, because she would often in the

423
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,119
Speaker 5: beginning get to know you very deeply, get to know

424
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,320
Speaker 5: most people that came to class, if they were in

425
00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 5: a relationship that was not a marriage, they often broke

426
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:12,400
Speaker 5: up with their significant other shortly after joining. A lot

427
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 5: of my friends that are no longer in the class,

428
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:20,239
Speaker 5: were just convinced that their mother or their father or

429
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,480
Speaker 5: both were the reason that they were being stopped in life,

430
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,000
Speaker 5: or that friend's not really helping you. They're just jealous

431
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,159
Speaker 5: and that's why they're doing that. And she would have

432
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:32,000
Speaker 5: a public talk in class about you know, your parents

433
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,160
Speaker 5: love you and they care about you, and everyone has

434
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Speaker 5: their own limited beliefs.

435
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Speaker 3: That's a big word.

436
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,280
Speaker 5: Right now, but she's been using it forever, and she'd say,

437
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,959
Speaker 5: they love you, and even they might be scared and

438
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 5: in fear and by default give you advice that's not

439
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,119
Speaker 5: helpful to you. So she would say that in the

440
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 5: grand scheme of things.

441
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 2: But she's that you.

442
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 5: Sometimes she would come in in a critique or in

443
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Speaker 5: private and be like, oh, well, they don't really want

444
00:20:56,680 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 5: you to succeed and so, or you're just studying someone else.

445
00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:02,639
Speaker 5: Oh you're studying with your boyfriend. You're not hearing me,

446
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 5: Or you're studying with your father and you're not hearing me,

447
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 5: or you're studying so it eventually you start. And this

448
00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 5: was just my experience. I know a couple other friends

449
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,440
Speaker 5: who've had a similar experience, but my experience was that

450
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 5: I started to question like my parents, and were they

451
00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 5: really helpful? So I would want to not call them

452
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 5: as much because I'm afraid. I was afraid they would

453
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 5: say something that would throw me off or suppress me,

454
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 5: even if they weren't suppressive, because you can do suppressive

455
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,920
Speaker 5: things and not be suppressive, but you can also then

456
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 5: also be a suppressive person. So in general, it was

457
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,359
Speaker 5: like smoke in your ear almost in terms of how

458
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 5: she would phrase it or word it. So then you

459
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,359
Speaker 5: would start to think, wait a minute, maybe that person's

460
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 5: trying to stop me, And then all of a sudden,

461
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 5: the only person that you do trust is her, right right?

462
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:51,919
Speaker 3: Oh my god?

463
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, the I mean classic isolation moves, which I mean, okay,

464
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 2: so tell us about how I don't even phrase this question.

465
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 2: When did things start to get weird?

466
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 3: Get weird?

467
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, get weirder, get weirder.

468
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 5: That's funny because I had asked you, like, what should

469
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 5: I prepare to say?

470
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:15,400
Speaker 3: I feel like there's so much.

471
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,439
Speaker 5: The first thing that really shifted for me was the

472
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 5: time when I was driving her and she like broke

473
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 5: out into a rage and I actually thought I was

474
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 5: going to have a car accident and go off the road,

475
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,479
Speaker 5: like I was terrified because I'd never experienced that kind

476
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 5: of rage directed at me in my life.

477
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 3: I thought she was going to hit me, like I

478
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 3: didn't know what was going to happen.

479
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 5: And after I dropped her off, I don't remember if

480
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 5: I received an email or if she had a close

481
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 5: friend of mine that was in the class call me,

482
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 5: but it was basically like, well, you really fucked up

483
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,679
Speaker 5: and you did this, and you know now you're going

484
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 5: to have to make amends. Making amends was a huge thing.

485
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 5: It's a scientology term, so, well, it's really fucked up

486
00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 5: in this re card, in this guard, making amends is

487
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 5: a little bit different. I remember, I just I felt

488
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 5: so awful. I was physically sick.

489
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 3: To my stomach.

490
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 5: And at this time I didn't know that trauma gets

491
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 5: stored in the body, the whole fight or flight response,

492
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 5: and how you can loop into that cycle physically and

493
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:17,399
Speaker 5: stay in that and not get out of it. So

494
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 5: I was getting physically ill because I was so I

495
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 5: thought I was a bad person. I thought I was terrible,

496
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:23,800
Speaker 5: that I was a loser.

497
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,239
Speaker 2: I was like, what was she saying that you did wrong? Like,

498
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 2: what was your sin.

499
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 5: That I had unexpressed resentment? Towards her, and she was saying,

500
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 5: I think you're jealous of so and so we were

501
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 5: coming back from a rehearsal and I was an understudy

502
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 5: in this play to someone else, and she was saying

503
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,760
Speaker 5: that I was jealous and that I resented her, and

504
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,680
Speaker 5: that's why I was like acting out or making mistakes

505
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:50,880
Speaker 5: or not hearing.

506
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 2: Her that you resented.

507
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 3: The other actors know that I resented her. Oria okay, right, so.

508
00:23:58,080 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 2: Why And I was like, because she wasn't the man,

509
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 2: because Glorya is the one who decided, okay.

510
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah. Uh So I was like, okay, well maybe

511
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 3: because I'm very much like you want to clean up

512
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 3: your side of it.

513
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 5: Yeah exactly, I'm all about I am, and I'm still

514
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 5: that way.

515
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 3: I'm still like self help. Yeah, I'm just a lot

516
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 3: more skeptical about the source now. Yeah. So I thought, wow,

517
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 3: I've just I really fucked up.

518
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 5: I really fucked up, you know, and like kind of

519
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 5: into this like self punishment thing. And I kinda was like, oh,

520
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 5: I really fucked up. And then you can get handled

521
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 5: by other officers in the class. It's like, well, yeah, Abigail,

522
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 5: you're gonna probably have to do this or maybe you

523
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 5: could do this. And I wrote her a letter and

524
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 5: I left her a card, and she didn't speak to me,

525
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 5: she didn't respond to my emails.

526
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 3: And then.

527
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,520
Speaker 5: I think she just started talking to me again in

528
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 5: class like nothing had happened, or we later on had

529
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 5: a conversation about it. It was a long time ago,

530
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 5: was twelve years ago, so it's really hard to remember

531
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 5: the details. I just remember the unexpressed resentment, and then

532
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 5: I finally was like, okay, well maybe I have it.

533
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 5: And then it was like ooom, explosion of rage, and

534
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 5: I was like.

535
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 2: What, So I'm hearing jargon. I'm hearing a lot of

536
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 2: jargon that is clearly specific to this group and or

537
00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: scientology of terms that only people in the group would know.

538
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 2: I'm hearing unpredictability and like putting you in the position

539
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 2: of needing to always like be better and work on yourself,

540
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 2: and you're not there yet and you have to prove

541
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: yourself to her, and like then you know, you don't

542
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 2: know when she's gonna be mad at you or not.

543
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,119
Speaker 2: Then you're just like always gonna be on edge and

544
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 2: always like having to try to prove something because it's

545
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 2: never gonna be enough. What would trigger her moments of rage.

546
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 2: Would it be like something someone said, Would it be

547
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 2: like did she feel like she'd been crot like someone

548
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,679
Speaker 2: was trying to interrupt her power?

549
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 5: Like yeah, I that's hard because sometimes it would come

550
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 5: out in a critique where she would just lay into

551
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 5: somebody and you're like, whoa, Okay, that's rough. Like there

552
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 5: was an instance where we were in Glad at her

553
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 5: house and there was a student that was talking back

554
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 5: to her, a male student, and he started arguing and

555
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 5: she was like, that's your problem because you have a mouth,

556
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 5: and and it turned into this knockdown, drag out verbal

557
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,640
Speaker 5: assault that went from the inside to the outside, and

558
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 5: Megan was crying.

559
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 3: She was like, okay, yes, do you remember that. She

560
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 3: doesn't remember it, you Blomber.

561
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 5: You were really really upset because you were sitting next

562
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,400
Speaker 5: to me and you were like and you were like terrified.

563
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 3: You were like this isn't okay. And they were screaming

564
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 3: on her front lawn. Was so crazy, and I was like,

565
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 3: I just I'd never seen that. I'd never seen that.

566
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 5: I mean, for all intents and purposes, I grew up

567
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 5: in a in a stable home. I mean, like everyone

568
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 5: has fucking childhood trauma. Yeah, it's one degree or another.

569
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 5: But for the most part, like there was no like

570
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,159
Speaker 5: yelling or physical abuse in my home. So this was

571
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 5: a very different environment and I kind of didn't know

572
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 5: what to do about it.

573
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:00,359
Speaker 6: Mmm.

574
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: Were people kind of chucking it up to like, well,

575
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 2: she's unfiltered.

576
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 3: This is like her way from yeah that she's from

577
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 3: New York.

578
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 5: It's tough love, and I kind of likened it to like, oh, well,

579
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 5: it's like military training almost.

580
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 3: So if you have your loyalty and.

581
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 5: You're tough and you're strong, then you're just gonna prove

582
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 5: yourself and you're gonna go out there and you can

583
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 5: work for anyone. And she would always tell the story

584
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 5: of a student of hers who was working in Titanic.

585
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 3: Maybe he wasn't an extra, but.

586
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: He Leonardo de Caap.

587
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 5: But he had he had a role in Titanic, and

588
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 5: she said that he tells her a story of like, yeah,

589
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 5: James Cameron got on the megaphone and he was like

590
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 5: screaming at some of these extras, And so she would

591
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 5: kind of tell stories to like support her behavior.

592
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: I guess it's like, guys, I'm just preparing you Cameron, right.

593
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: Okay, this makes me think of one of the quotes

594
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 2: from the article, So y'all to to if you want

595
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:58,560
Speaker 2: to read more about the situation and get kind of

596
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 2: other perspectives on this story. The Hollywood Reporter came out

597
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,399
Speaker 2: with a piece about it. They interviewed a lot of

598
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,679
Speaker 2: different people for it. It is called post dramatic Stress

599
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 2: ex Students to Cry Nightmare acting coach. So in this article,

600
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 2: a woman named Mary Angelica Quervo who spent did you

601
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 2: know her?

602
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, Marie Angelica.

603
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, Marie Angelica, who spent two years at the Conservatory

604
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 2: beginning in twenty twelve, says she related to the twenty

605
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: fourteen I'm quoting the article related to the twenty fourteen

606
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: film Whiplash, which centered on JK. Simmons frightening jazz instructor.

607
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 3: This is her quote.

608
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 2: I thought, that's like Gloria, But the guy in the

609
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 2: movie is like ten percent of Gloria. She was way worse.

610
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 3: I haven't seen that movie. Oh my, now I know why.

611
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 3: It's one of my favorite movies. I feel like I

612
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 3: should watch it now.

613
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 2: And you guys, he is a very extreme in that movie.

614
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 2: So if she's ten percent of her, that's like terrifying.

615
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: She's she's a absolute like a like a caricature, caricature

616
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: of someone who's going to really get in your head, like.

617
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: Drill it into you.

618
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, just like the like the.

619
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: Beginning being like like one of the first exercise like

620
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: break you down to the build your deal. And I

621
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: just remember us all sitting out, remember that in a group,

622
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: and she was like, let's just say our deepest secrets

623
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: and like ten things we never want And I was like,

624
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: why does she want this from us?

625
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 5: Well, because she would say those things later, because she

626
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 5: was going to use it in a critique in public

627
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 5: and share personal private information about you without your permission

628
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 5: to a room full of people.

629
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna go ahead and say, if you're

630
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 2: in a group of people or even one on one

631
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: with a person and they're asking you to divulge all

632
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 2: of your vulnerabilities and trauma to them for some like

633
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: trust exercise or whatever, fucking don't do it. Yeah. Now

634
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 2: we know.

635
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, and now we know always know.

636
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: It's very easy for acting instructors to utilize because acting

637
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,719
Speaker 2: is all all about vulnerability. It's all about accessing your

638
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: emotions and using the experiences that you actually have within you.

639
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 2: So I see the justification for it, Like it makes

640
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,480
Speaker 2: sense you got to like get it all out there

641
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: and lay all out of your feelings out on the

642
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: table or whatever.

643
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: But like, that's not the way to do it.

644
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 2: You don't have to trauma to anyone who you don't

645
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: decide to do that too on your own.

646
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: I think one of the problems there is that there

647
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: is you know, a percentage of techniques that she's using

648
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: that are great and correct and whatever.

649
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 4: They're just so mixed in with her absolute and ability

650
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 4: to have empathy, and you get like really odd.

651
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and she does say if you ask her, she'll

652
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 5: she'll say this in open classes, she'll say, I don't

653
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 5: have a technique. The technique I teach us to do

654
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 5: it now. So when you get on set, you can't

655
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 5: be like all method and be.

656
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: Like, hold on, I'm preparing my you know.

657
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 5: She's like, yeah, they say action like you have to go,

658
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 5: So she's like, whatever you need to do to get there,

659
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 5: or whatever I need to do to get you there.

660
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 5: That would often happen in showcase coachings. She would direct

661
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 5: really really fast to get you somewhere, so it would

662
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 5: be a little bit more intense.

663
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 4: But I'd be like slapping in that too, right, Like.

664
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:16,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I did witness she in critiques. I've witnessed her

665
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 5: telling a male student to take a female student and

666
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 5: throw her over his lap and spank her hard.

667
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

668
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 5: I've also witnessed her have a group of girls line

669
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 5: up and slap you know. I was one of these people.

670
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 5: I had to slap my friend. This happened twice, two

671
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 5: different girls in the face, and it was a line

672
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 5: of us, like six girls like slapping this girl. I

673
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 5: don't remember what the circumstances were, but it was something

674
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 5: to like fix about the person or wake them up

675
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 5: or something I don't remember.

676
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 3: Gosh. So there was that. There was also.

677
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 5: In terms of like maybe directing a scene in a

678
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 5: play she was directing, or a showcase, or even just

679
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 5: a scene in class, if it was like a love

680
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 5: scene or romantic scene or sex scene in any way,

681
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 5: which by the way, in the class there was a

682
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 5: rule where you could not date or sleep with anyone

683
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 5: else in class, so so that you felt safe and

684
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 5: protected and like you were in like a safe environment.

685
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 5: And then even in rehearsals, when you had rehearsals, you

686
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 5: were not if you kissed in the scene, you didn't

687
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 5: kiss in the rehearsal. You save that for the stage. So, uh,

688
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 5: there would be instances, and I experienced this myself where

689
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 5: you would be directed to do something because she'll she'll

690
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 5: say it. She's very like sexual in her directing and

691
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 5: her teaching, and she would direct you to do something.

692
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 5: And there were things that I did that I felt

693
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 5: very uncomfortable doing. But if and I tried to, like,

694
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 5: you know, uh, what does that want to? You try

695
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 5: to get a horse to go over a jump and

696
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 5: they kind of rear back, I would kind of like

697
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 5: rear back away from it because it was uncomfortable. I

698
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 5: would kind of rear away from it. And she would

699
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 5: yell at you like, oh, well, I'm gonna I'm gonna

700
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 5: give this. Because she would always double and triple cast

701
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 5: her plays and.

702
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 4: Uh, I mean she cut every base.

703
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 5: She would say, well, I'll give the performance to someone else,

704
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 5: or if it was in a showcase, she's like, well,

705
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 5: then you're not going to perform in the showcase. And

706
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 5: if it was a scene, it would be like, well,

707
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:10,239
Speaker 5: why aren't you doing it? Well, why aren't you doing it?

708
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 5: And it was almost in the form of like it felt.

709
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 5: It felt like threat and coercion is what it felt like.

710
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you always have it dangling over your head,

711
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 2: of course you're going to listen to whatever she says,

712
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: because everyone wants you want the role, You want the part,

713
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: that's why you're there.

714
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 5: Well, you also want to avoid being publicly shamed and humiliated.

715
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 3: Right Like, when I look back.

716
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 5: At the grand scheme of the picture, I'm like, Okay,

717
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 5: what are the types of abuse that exist? And I'm like, oh,

718
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 5: there's physical. What defines physical? There's emotional. Okay, what defines emotional? Psychological, financial, sexual, cultural?

719
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 5: And I look at all these and I read all

720
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 5: the definitions and I'm like, hmm, there's a majority there.

721
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,640
Speaker 2: I want a little bit more of a picture painted of,

722
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: just like the general environment. It was in her house

723
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 2: for a while.

724
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 5: It was in her house for a while because in

725
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 5: two thousand and six, she says, she called it like

726
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 5: the betrayal, where a number of her students left and

727
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 5: tried to shut her in the school down.

728
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: Really yeah, all the way back then.

729
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, one of those students later came out with a

730
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 5: book and wrote a chapter about her.

731
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 3: We'll come back to that.

732
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 5: Oh, so, when she was having it in her class.

733
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 3: It's because she lost she says this.

734
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 5: She would say, like she lost, you know, the majority

735
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 5: of her income because all of the students left the

736
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 5: school and she only had like, you know, a handful

737
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 5: of people that you know, stayed loyal and by her side.

738
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 5: So it was in her house for a while, and

739
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 5: then we moved to a theater in North Hollywood, like

740
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,759
Speaker 5: one day a week because classes would be Wednesday nights

741
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 5: and then Saturdays and Sundays, and Saturdays was like the

742
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 5: introductory like tyro classes what she called it, and Sundays

743
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,560
Speaker 5: was advanced scene study and then Wednesday nights two classes

744
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 5: would come together. So she would have class at her

745
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 5: house on Wednesdays and Saturdays, and then Sundays would be

746
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 5: the theater. And then it turned into Wednesdays and Sundays

747
00:34:56,640 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 5: at the theater, and then she finally added Saturdays at

748
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 5: the theater, and then we were at Hollywood. It was

749
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 5: like Langersham and Camerio, and then we went to another

750
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 5: studio North Hollywood, and then in twenty eighteen she rented

751
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,440
Speaker 5: a space on Hollywood Row where she had originally been before.

752
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 3: I think she was at the complex or the betrayal.

753
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, they were at the complex before the betrayal, and

754
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 5: everyone I.

755
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 3: Think that's what she called it.

756
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 4: I don't remember.

757
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 3: No, that sounds but very I got.

758
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 5: We got the story a lot, and most people betrayed her.

759
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 3: These classes were long, They were long.

760
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 5: They were They used to be eleven to two or

761
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 5: three on Saturdays, and then it switched to one to six,

762
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 5: one to six and one to six on Sundays, and

763
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 5: like seven to ten on Wednesdays.

764
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 3: But ten really meant midnight.

765
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it never won count me out, dude.

766
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 5: And if you had to leave early because you thought

767
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 5: class ended at ten like the schedule said, it was

768
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 5: a problem. Oh and if they had to leave early,

769
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 5: if you had to leave early to go to work

770
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:02,280
Speaker 5: on a Saturday or Sunday because a lot of actors

771
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 5: work in restaurants and bars, then you were not continually

772
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:10,720
Speaker 5: but often enough been like, oh, well, you're losing valuable

773
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 5: class time because you're spending time at that day job.

774
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 5: And think if you're leaving an hour and a half

775
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 5: early every class, that's four and a half hours every month,

776
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 5: and then you're missing it's like you're missing a whole class.

777
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 3: So are you here to act or you here to

778
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 3: work at a restaurant.

779
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 1: Wow.

780
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 4: And the classes are like lunacy.

781
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 1: As Abigail said, there are some like great things that

782
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: she teaches.

783
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 4: I didn't get to that part.

784
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:33,879
Speaker 3: It was the last class I took.

785
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 4: She put on a record of herself singing you don't

786
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 4: remember this from forever ago and played it on repeat

787
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: and just had us listen to it.

788
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,719
Speaker 1: And I just got up and said, I am going

789
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: to go home now.

790
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,440
Speaker 3: Really, yeah, I don't remember this at all.

791
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 2: Wait after how long of going like six months?

792
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 3: Yeah?

793
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: And that was the final straw for you. Do you

794
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 2: remember what else?

795
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,520
Speaker 5: You? Well?

796
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 1: I think like because I had been raised and some

797
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: in a way that these red flags stood out a

798
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: lot more to me. I think I don't have bad

799
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly, which makes me so sad because

800
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: I wish I would have, like I don't know, I

801
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 1: wish we could have all just left together or something.

802
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,239
Speaker 1: It's really too bad. But you probably learned a lot.

803
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 5: Oh, I've learned so much. I've turned it into its

804
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 5: total opportunity. I see as a book, as a movie.

805
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 5: You're gonna yeah.

806
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: But she just was all about herself, like she would

807
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: give us lectures on how her hands looked young.

808
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 5: And and the importance of or how everyone always thought

809
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 5: she was younger than she was because she never did

810
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 5: drugs and you know, moisturizer. She would go way into

811
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 5: hygiene with the girls about the products they should use

812
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 5: their hair, their skin, how they should take none and none.

813
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 5: That was like bad information, you know what I mean.

814
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 5: And it's true if you're in Hollywood, it is very

815
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 5: looks based.

816
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: Yeah.

817
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember her being like, my my hands look

818
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: so young because I get Manning and I was like cool.

819
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 3: And then she's like, my.

820
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: Hands are young looking, and I was like I know,

821
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: and she just kept sacking, like she just kept If

822
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 1: it's about her, it doesn't end. So the like sick

823
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: feeling in your stomach when it's Wednesday night and you

824
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: just want to go home and you know you're going

825
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: to be stuck watching one of her movies on repeat

826
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: for five more hours and this like.

827
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 2: Would you really watch things on repeat repeat?

828
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 4: But we'd watch it.

829
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 3: I mean she would show movies.

830
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,919
Speaker 5: Sometimes she would show like a video, like an old

831
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 5: reel of hers.

832
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 3: I mean that didn't happen too often.

833
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 5: No, it's most of them were like most of them

834
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 5: were like class movies or movies we were gonna watch,

835
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 5: like a classic film, Like she has a encyclopedic knowledge

836
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 5: of film. Yes, she's got some some gems from the thirties,

837
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 5: the forties, the fifties, sixties. I've never even heard of

838
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 5: stuff you can't even find on DVD. So she definitely

839
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,320
Speaker 5: was knowledgeable in that department.

840
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 4: Yes, sometimes you just want to go home.

841
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 5: And there was a lot of talking about nothing, yeah

842
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, or handling someone and you had to stay

843
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 5: and witness the handling of the person.

844
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:15,400
Speaker 2: So did handling mean like punishing someone, like dealing with

845
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: someone's sins? Basically?

846
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 3: Yeah?

847
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 4: So?

848
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:19,879
Speaker 3: Or what was stopping them?

849
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 5: So, like if someone tried to leave class, there was

850
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 5: often a handling, and that may have happened publicly in

851
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 5: front of the whole class, not that often, or it

852
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 5: would happen privately with a few of their close friends

853
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 5: in the class and officers. And they would say, well,

854
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,879
Speaker 5: I mean, it's just fear. You're you're just leaving because

855
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 5: you're listening to your mother or your father or your boyfriend,

856
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 5: and it's fear, And are you going to let that

857
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 5: stop you? And I'm saying this in a really creepy way.

858
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 5: It wasn't creepy. It sounded completely rational and logical and

859
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 5: so and so you think, oh, I guess I just

860
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,200
Speaker 5: have to like look at what I've done wrong or

861
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 5: what I'm in resistance of resistance was a huge thing,

862
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 5: or where are myself sabotaging?

863
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 3: What am I afraid of?

864
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 5: I must be afraid to be a winner, so that

865
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 5: makes me a loser if I leave. And it also

866
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 5: didn't help that if you left, everyone that was in

867
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 5: class stop speaking to you, And there was also a

868
00:40:09,719 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 5: giant smear campaign created against you, and all of your

869
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 5: personal information was divulged in the form of what I

870
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:18,080
Speaker 5: felt like was gossip.

871
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 2: Yes, are there people I know? The article mentions a

872
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 2: few people, but are there prominent people who take her

873
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 2: class or have taken her class?

874
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 3: Prominent people who have taken her class?

875
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 4: Yes?

876
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 5: When I left, the only prominent people that were in

877
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 5: it were there was one girl who had recently gotten

878
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 5: like a regular role on a soap, so she was

879
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 5: kind of breaking out into a more prominent situation.

880
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 2: There were like some actors listed that I had heard of,

881
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 2: but I literally don't remember their names because they're like

882
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,359
Speaker 2: the kind of actors that you see in stuff, but

883
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 2: they're not household names. And then something I thought was

884
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 2: really interesting in the article was Patty Jenkins.

885
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 5: I don't know her, and if I ever get the

886
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 5: chance to meet her, I'm gonna kiss her feet.

887
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 3: No, because that's too worship be.

888
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 5: I'll give her great I'll give her a big hug

889
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,399
Speaker 5: and say thank you so much for speaking out. Yeah.

890
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: So, Patty Jenkins, director of Wonder Woman and the subsequent sequels.

891
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: For those who don't know, Patty Jenkins apparently took the

892
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 2: class because it was mandated at AFI, and this was

893
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: a quote from her. She said, I took one mandated

894
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 2: class with Gloria Gifford during my time at AFI. She

895
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: was not significant in my education in any way. I

896
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 2: did witness very questionable behavior within her community that put

897
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,160
Speaker 2: me off from any further engagement. So the one quote

898
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: we have from a well known person in Hollywood is.

899
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 3: That, yeah. And I was like, thank you, Yeah.

900
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 2: Can you talk to us about the financial element?

901
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 5: I can, although there's not really a paper trail in

902
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 5: my experience. I remember I was rehearsing for a showcase

903
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 5: which I paid I think about one thousand dollars to

904
00:41:58,800 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 5: be in.

905
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 4: I'm sorry sorry what yes? Wow?

906
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 5: And on top of whatever, I spent on the costumes

907
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 5: and props that I bought from the class.

908
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 2: Sorry, that was a showcase just for the class, like

909
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 2: not a showcase for the class.

910
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 3: But I also paid every month for the class.

911
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: Wow.

912
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 5: So and I'm just explained this. I'm not saying that

913
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 5: this is or is not financial abuse. What I'm saying

914
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 5: is in the rehearsal or walk through of that particular showcase,

915
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 5: she said that I didn't listen or take a specific

916
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 5: note about something, and I did misunderstand something that she said,

917
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 5: and so I was fined two hundred dollars and I

918
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 5: wouldn't be allowed to perform unless I paid the two

919
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 5: hundred dollars, which she said in front of everyone. But

920
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 5: there's no email of that. So I paid the two

921
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 5: hundred dollars and I gave it to the co producer

922
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 5: of the showcase or the producer of the showcase.

923
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 2: You don't have that transaction anywhere.

924
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 3: No, it was paid in cash. Uh huh Okay.

925
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 5: I mean I have an email that I sent to

926
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 5: Lauria that says I paid this person, send one hundred dollars.

927
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,839
Speaker 5: I'll pay one hundred again, or maybe I sent it

928
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,360
Speaker 5: to the producer. I think I sent it to the

929
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 5: producer and said, here's the hundred of the two hundred.

930
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 5: But because there's no response back, it's not anything.

931
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 2: For listening for not listening.

932
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 5: Yes, no, so, And I know students that had to

933
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:21,000
Speaker 5: pay for a second showcase coaching because they were acting

934
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 5: up and not taking direction and wasting her time in.

935
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,840
Speaker 3: The first coaching. Because with a showcase you get a

936
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 3: coaching automatically, So there is stuff like that.

937
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: Can't just arbitrarily make up fees. That's not a thing.

938
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 5: We also, I want to point out that these are

939
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 5: all actors who don't have a lot of money. Yeah,

940
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 5: And there was one occurrence where we were, you know,

941
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 5: in rehearsals for a play, and she always says we're

942
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 5: gonna double cast or triple cast or whatever, so you

943
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 5: can also work your jobs.

944
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 3: And have your money.

945
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:59,359
Speaker 5: And for this specific play, going into it, you didn't

946
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 5: know how much you going to pay because it was

947
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 5: going to be based on how much she would perform.

948
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 5: So if I only performed a handful of times, I might.

949
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: Have had to pay a thousand dollars. And it was

950
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 3: the week of the show.

951
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,080
Speaker 5: We were having a dress rehearsal and I worked that

952
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 5: particular night, but there were other dress rehearsals, and I

953
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,960
Speaker 5: got a text from a producer that says, anyone who

954
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,320
Speaker 5: doesn't come tonight will not be in the show opening weekend.

955
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 5: You need to be here now, And I was like,

956
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 5: this doesn't make any sense.

957
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 3: She just said it was okay. She does this every production.

958
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 3: She would say it was.

959
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 5: Okay, and then the closer it got to the timeline,

960
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 5: she would just complain and.

961
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 3: Yell like, no one's showing up a rehearsal. You don't

962
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 3: take this seriously. Da da da da da.

963
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 5: And so I faked getting sick and I left work

964
00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 5: to race to the theater to go be in this show.

965
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 5: So you know, I like lost the money that I

966
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 5: would have made at work because they worked on tips.

967
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 2: Wow you get yeah.

968
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 6: I mean also the that she had people work for her,

969
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 6: there was there was a lot of there was a

970
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 6: lot of fines involved and just like abusing people's time,

971
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 6: Like she would have people drive her everywhere.

972
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 4: I was the driver.

973
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 3: I was on the inner circle. I was on the

974
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 3: inner circle. Yeah you you were.

975
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: I mean, just do everything for this is labor exploitation.

976
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: It's completely yeah, all of it, like go get this

977
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 1: for me, Go get like she just has, and you

978
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: would do.

979
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 5: It because you wanted to appease her, which I have

980
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 5: my own like people pleasing thing.

981
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,320
Speaker 3: That I'm trying to break. So I was like perfectly

982
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 3: set up to walk right into this.

983
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 5: So it's turned into a beautiful lesson for myself about

984
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 5: how I conduct myself and what I want to work

985
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 5: on within myself, which is, you know, the silver lining

986
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 5: of this dark storm cloud, which I think anyone that's

987
00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 5: been through any any form of trauma, if they can

988
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 5: do that, I just think that's like going to help

989
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:53,479
Speaker 5: them so much.

990
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: So classes cost to fifty five hundred per month. That's

991
00:45:56,239 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 2: relatively standard. Multiple individuals told the Hall Would Reporter that

992
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,040
Speaker 2: they've paid Gifford more than one hundred thousand dollars over

993
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 2: their ten years.

994
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

995
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 5: When the journalist reached out to me to see if

996
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 5: I would speak in the article and I agreed that,

997
00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 5: one of the first things he asked me was how

998
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 5: much money do you think you spent? And I was like,

999
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 5: because I had to think about how much I added

1000
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 5: up all the money I paid for class over that

1001
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 5: fourteen years and then I thought, Okay, how many showcases

1002
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 5: did I do?

1003
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 3: How many plays did I do? And I would like

1004
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 3: not pay my rent and pay for the play? Wow?

1005
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, what was your What total did you get

1006
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: close to?

1007
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 5: The low estimate was eighty thousand, and so it was

1008
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 5: probably closer to one hundred, and that really.

1009
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 2: Hurts actors have it rough like, because even to just

1010
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 2: pay for regular class is incredibly expensive. It adds up.

1011
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 3: Well, and you still have to pay money for headshots, to.

1012
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 2: Be on LA cast, to submit anything on Actors' Access,

1013
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: and then if you do get a job, twenty five

1014
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,479
Speaker 2: percent of it is immediately gone to all your reps

1015
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 2: or whatever. But so on top of the standard, because

1016
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 2: it is normal to spend money on acting class, but

1017
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: on top of that, first of all, you never graduate,

1018
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,879
Speaker 2: so you're in it for right, right, And second of all,

1019
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 2: she's finding you. She's making you pay for things that

1020
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 2: other places would not that you're not.

1021
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 5: One of the way of making amends was you could

1022
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 5: just buy her dinner. Really like, if we were at

1023
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 5: the theater and we were all having rehearsal and she

1024
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 5: wouldn't suggest it, but you'd seen it done before.

1025
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 3: She would be like, well, can I pay for your

1026
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 3: dinner tonight? I have twenty dollars do this, Megan?

1027
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:44,399
Speaker 2: Can you tell the cars? Yeah?

1028
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 4: I absolutely ken. So I was dating a guy when

1029
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 4: I was in this class.

1030
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 3: I remember those.

1031
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:49,759
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1032
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: So he was young and dumb and he was also

1033
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 1: an actor and he was on.

1034
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 4: A show and he got two cars.

1035
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 1: He was leasing two very expensive cars at the time,

1036
00:47:59,800 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: and I was like, we lived together, and I was like,

1037
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:03,239
Speaker 1: you're not doing this.

1038
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 4: This is insane.

1039
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 2: He was on a show at the time.

1040
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, so he was like, yeah, this is forever. No,

1041
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 4: I'm like whatever, yeah, okay.

1042
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 1: So so I was like, you're renting one of these

1043
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: cars to somebody because now we have three fucking cars.

1044
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: This is insane. And so she needed a car and

1045
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: I was like, do you want to rent it from him? Yes,

1046
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: I do before the car got stolen. Because it did

1047
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: eventually get stolen.

1048
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,439
Speaker 3: She just wouldn't pay. I didn't know that.

1049
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 4: She just wouldn't like ever.

1050
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: I think she did like twice, and then I'd be like, hello,

1051
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: are you alive? And then finally she just rode back

1052
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 1: and was like car is stolen. And I was like

1053
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: it's what And then they found it in a ditch

1054
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:53,760
Speaker 1: and like, somewhere weird.

1055
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 4: I'm going to text David and asked this information.

1056
00:48:56,280 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 5: I had no idea that she wasn't paying on it.

1057
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 2: Oh no, not at all. So do you think it

1058
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: was actually stolen?

1059
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 5: It was stolen because it happened when we were doing

1060
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 5: a showcase at the Matrix Theater on Melrose and the

1061
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 5: car was out back. So we were all in the

1062
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 5: theater and she was like, she comes back and she's like,

1063
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:14,560
Speaker 5: the car's gone.

1064
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 3: We were like what.

1065
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 2: But she had not been paying right already?

1066
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:22,440
Speaker 3: Okarect.

1067
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 4: The truth of the matter is no, she was not paying.

1068
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: And I actually wrote her at one point and I

1069
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: was like, hey, instead of me trying to collect all

1070
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 1: of this money.

1071
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:31,560
Speaker 3: That your tuition.

1072
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 4: Oh right, well, I well I wasn't in the class

1073
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 4: at the time.

1074
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 2: Oh.

1075
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 4: I was like, maybe you should just give me free classes.

1076
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: And she was like okay, talk to Blank one of

1077
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,360
Speaker 1: her people, and I was like okay, And then I wrote.

1078
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,359
Speaker 4: Them and they just never brun my back. So I

1079
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,920
Speaker 4: know she didn't want me there being like she didn't pay.

1080
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

1081
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 5: So this is making me think of so because I'm

1082
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 5: I'm an la orphan, like, I don't have any family here,

1083
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,279
Speaker 5: so she would often invite all of us orphans to

1084
00:49:58,360 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 5: her house for Thanksgiving and Christmas.

1085
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 3: So I spent many holidays.

1086
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 5: In fact, I moved to la in two thousand and seven,

1087
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 5: and I went home that year for Christmas, and then

1088
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,439
Speaker 5: I didn't go home again for Christmas until last year

1089
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 5: because I spent every Christmas, almost every Christmas with her.

1090
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 5: The last three or four years, after her mom passed away,

1091
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 5: we stopped doing holidays at her house.

1092
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 3: So you left when twenty twenty.

1093
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 2: One, Oh this is I didn't realize how recent that.

1094
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 3: Oh yes, very recent?

1095
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 2: Oh wow?

1096
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so she thought, I want all of

1097
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,399
Speaker 5: you to be able to still spend Thanksgiving together, So

1098
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 5: you know, can you make reservations at this place that

1099
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,319
Speaker 5: I was like working out for five seconds and I

1100
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 5: was going to be working, but the group that we

1101
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 5: normally spent time with was going to come there and eat,

1102
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:45,360
Speaker 5: and I'm like, sure, no problem.

1103
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 3: I made it. And then it got shut.

1104
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:50,919
Speaker 5: Down because of COVID because remember in twenty twenty yeah,

1105
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 5: end of twenty twenty h they like things started opening

1106
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:55,880
Speaker 5: back up in the summer, and then right before Thanksgiving,

1107
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 5: everyone was like, oh no, shut it down again. And

1108
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 5: so I had emailed her because one of the guests

1109
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 5: emailed me and said, oh, so I paid for me

1110
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 5: and so and so. Do you think I could get

1111
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:08,719
Speaker 5: that money back? I said, yeah, you know, I coordinated it.

1112
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 5: Let me just email and just be like, oh, you know,

1113
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 5: since we're not doing this, like you can just give

1114
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 5: me back blah blah blah's money and I'll return it

1115
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 5: to her. And she never responded to the email. And

1116
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 5: this person was like, did you talk to a Glory

1117
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 5: about it? And I was like yeah, she didn't respond,

1118
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 5: like I'll check again.

1119
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 3: And she just never responded. It was I think it

1120
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 3: was like one hundred.

1121
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,359
Speaker 2: Dollars okay, but a one hundred dollars here, one hundred

1122
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 2: dollars there. You know that adds up.

1123
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: I imagine, damn, one hundred dollars adds up as one

1124
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 1: hundred dollars.

1125
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 2: I know, but I'm like, no, I not make a

1126
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 2: full living. Just like not responding to email totally.

1127
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 3: She would always tell story. I don't know if you

1128
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 3: remember this.

1129
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 5: She would tell stories about how so and so came

1130
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 5: after her in court or whatever and she has to

1131
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 5: pay him twenty five dollars a week or I don't.

1132
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,319
Speaker 3: Know the stories of the logistics. There were so many

1133
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 3: red flags that I just refused to see.

1134
00:51:59,640 --> 00:52:02,520
Speaker 5: And when I look back at it now, I'm like, hmm,

1135
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 5: you have these people that you tell stories about that

1136
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 5: left you, that betrayed you. Everyone's always betraying you. Everyone's

1137
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,920
Speaker 5: always doing you wrong. Everyone's always coming after you for

1138
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,359
Speaker 5: money that's not rightfully theirs.

1139
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 3: Or you know, there's always a problem.

1140
00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 5: You have a difficult you have a difficult relationship with

1141
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 5: your family and your son.

1142
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 3: And I was like, something you just can't see right here.

1143
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 4: You're like, you have really bad luck.

1144
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, like exactly. I kept thinking, how much bad luck

1145
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 3: does somebody?

1146
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 5: Wow?

1147
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,240
Speaker 2: Wow, in another life, she would have been a really excellent,

1148
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 2: like psychic.

1149
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,760
Speaker 5: I feel like, oh, she would be so she actually

1150
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:36,280
Speaker 5: is psychic.

1151
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,799
Speaker 3: She's really great at reading people, That's what I mean.

1152
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you have that skill and you have the

1153
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:48,000
Speaker 2: lack of morals, Like, just she could have done that.

1154
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 2: No one would have thought twice about it.

1155
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 1: Why do you think you were so willing? Not willing,

1156
00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:56,839
Speaker 1: but why do you think you were so needing her? Oh?

1157
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 3: God, should we go to my childhood's I called.

1158
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 5: I was in a place in my life where I

1159
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 5: was like my self esteem and my self worth was

1160
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,440
Speaker 5: very much in the toilet, and I was always seeking

1161
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 5: validation and approval from others to feel like I was

1162
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 5: doing a good job. I mean, we kind of grew

1163
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,360
Speaker 5: up in a society where it's like, oh, you do

1164
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 5: a good job, you get an award, you get good grades,

1165
00:53:21,560 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 5: like that's how our society is built. But I just,

1166
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 5: for any number of reasons of life and the way

1167
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 5: we all grow up, I was very much in that

1168
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 5: space and people pleasing and also feeling like I didn't

1169
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 5: have the answers and I needed somebody to tell me

1170
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 5: the answers because ultimately I didn't really want to step

1171
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 5: up and like step into my own power and take

1172
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 5: responsibility and actually trust my gut and trust what I know.

1173
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 2: How old were you when you join?

1174
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 3: I was early twenties.

1175
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,960
Speaker 5: I think, yeah, sounds trucks, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1176
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, the stuff happens to people of

1177
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:03,160
Speaker 2: all ages. Yeah, I think, like, who isn't searching.

1178
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 3: At that age?

1179
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 5: And I'd also just arrived in Los Angeles. A lot

1180
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 5: of new students have just arrived or they're very young.

1181
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,799
Speaker 5: I mean, I came later, but I know when she

1182
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 5: first started teaching, she had a lot of people like

1183
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 5: I have friends that left class that started class with

1184
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 5: her when they were thirteen or fourteen.

1185
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 3: And you're so impressionable that age.

1186
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, just have a strong personality and yeah,

1187
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 6: you're like, you're so confident, you know what's going on.

1188
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you just go okay, And you know, I

1189
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 5: had a hard time speaking up for myself, setting boundaries

1190
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 5: for myself.

1191
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 3: That's something I'm still working on.

1192
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 5: So to see someone who embodied that, I thought, Okay,

1193
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 5: if I am close to this person, then I will

1194
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 5: be that right. And I'm also like kind of like

1195
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 5: the hopeful I don't want to say hopeful romantic, but

1196
00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 5: I'm like the hopeful optimist.

1197
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, if you work really hard, like guys,

1198
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 3: we can do it. We can. I'm always like the

1199
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 3: underdog person, like we can make it happen. Yeah, save

1200
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,279
Speaker 3: the world. Yeah, like very naive about human nature. I

1201
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 3: was very naive about human nature.

1202
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 5: I am not naive about human nature anymore, but I'm

1203
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 5: still very hopeful.

1204
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:12,680
Speaker 2: That's great for Real to talk to us more about

1205
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 2: the physical aspects of what would happen in class.

1206
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: So there's the slapping.

1207
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 5: She's grabbed me by my hair and yanked my hair

1208
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,280
Speaker 5: and like moved my head all around.

1209
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 3: And I saw her do that to.

1210
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 5: Other people and like pull them like literally pull them

1211
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 5: down to the ground on their knees.

1212
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:32,839
Speaker 3: Women. I didn't see her physically abuse men so much.

1213
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:34,280
Speaker 2: Interesting.

1214
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 3: Interesting.

1215
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 5: I know she did slap me across like the head

1216
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 5: this way in a in public in a grocery store.

1217
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,200
Speaker 5: And one time when I was seating people for a play,

1218
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 5: and I've had other people tell me they had a

1219
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:50,359
Speaker 5: similar experience. She didn't like what I was doing, so

1220
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 5: she grabbed my arm and like dug her nails into

1221
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,240
Speaker 5: my arm and forced me to move a certain way.

1222
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 3: But like did it like kind of on the sly

1223
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 3: and I was like, what was it? Ah?

1224
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 5: And I also watched her like body check women and

1225
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 5: men actually like try to body check them out of

1226
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 5: the theater.

1227
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:10,799
Speaker 3: Wow.

1228
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 2: Was she coercive? Like was she telling people what to

1229
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 2: do in their lives and like general behavior?

1230
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 5: Absolutely, And it was it wasn't like you can't do that.

1231
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:25,480
Speaker 5: It was more like, oh well, because you were guilted

1232
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 5: and shamed.

1233
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 3: So I barely had any relationships. While I was in

1234
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:31,040
Speaker 3: that class.

1235
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 5: Towards the end twenty nineteen, I was in a very

1236
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,799
Speaker 5: short relationship and I was trying to like not say anything,

1237
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:38,399
Speaker 5: keep on the DL because everybody knew.

1238
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 3: If you told her, she was gonna like, well, why

1239
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 3: you see this person? What do they do? And would

1240
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 3: just well, they're a loser, you know, Da da da

1241
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 3: da dah.

1242
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:52,919
Speaker 5: And so she I had gotten a text message from him,

1243
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 5: and she would oh.

1244
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 3: She would also invade your privacy. She would pick up

1245
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 3: your phone and be like who's this? Who's this?

1246
00:56:58,040 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 5: And I have a car with a screen, you know,

1247
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 5: so if somebody texts me, it shows up and.

1248
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,760
Speaker 3: She was like who's that? And I was like, oh,

1249
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 3: this guy I'm seeing.

1250
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:07,479
Speaker 4: I was like damn.

1251
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 3: I was like a found out. It was a hole handling.

1252
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 5: It went throughout the because this was in the afternoon

1253
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 5: as I was driving her to class that day and

1254
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 5: we were in the middle of a production, and then

1255
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 5: it turned into and then she roped my friend in

1256
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 5: and was like.

1257
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 3: You're seeing somebody too, aren't you?

1258
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 5: And she was like what and she was And so

1259
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 5: then we're being yelled at in front of an entire

1260
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:33,960
Speaker 5: room of cast and crew that we are you know,

1261
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 5: losing focus, that we're we're not having careers, we're not

1262
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:41,520
Speaker 5: you know, trying hard enough because we're in these relationships

1263
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 5: with these.

1264
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 3: Losers and we don't value ourselves. I'm kind of paraphrasing here.

1265
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 5: I don't remember the specifics that were said, but it

1266
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 5: was humiliating and embarrassing and frustrating. When you're being yelled at,

1267
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 5: it's very tiring. Yeah, and so you just want it

1268
00:57:55,720 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 5: to stop. Yeah, So finally you just go, yeah, you're right, okay, Yeah.

1269
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 3: And she would always say, so what am I saying?

1270
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:04,960
Speaker 3: You're saying A B and C.

1271
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 5: Wow, And She's like, you're just repeating what I said.

1272
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 5: Do you understand what I'm saying? And I'm like, so

1273
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 5: you had to like act like you understood what she

1274
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 5: was saying. It was very exhausting and so just to like,

1275
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 5: you know, because what if you know, you might have

1276
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 5: a performance that night, or or you're sitting there yelling

1277
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:24,200
Speaker 5: at me and we're about to start a play and

1278
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 5: now I can't eat because you're yelling at me. And

1279
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:30,000
Speaker 5: I've been here at the theater since one pm and

1280
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 5: it's seven pm, and now I'm going to be here

1281
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:34,880
Speaker 5: till two am, and I haven't eaten since eleven.

1282
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 3: Wow.

1283
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 5: She would also you would have no phones during class,

1284
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 5: which I get like a lot of like dance. You know,

1285
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 5: dancers are like put your phones away, no phone, Court

1286
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 5: can't have a phone. But it was one way you

1287
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,320
Speaker 5: were asking about alienating before. It was one way that

1288
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 5: she would alienate is you wouldn't have access.

1289
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,880
Speaker 4: To for these really long periods of time.

1290
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, days, a leak. Yeah.

1291
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 5: And also you could only go to the bathroom when

1292
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 5: she specified that it was a bathroom break.

1293
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 2: This would not be good for any of the three

1294
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:04,280
Speaker 2: of us.

1295
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 5: She would also you would you could only eat when

1296
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:10,880
Speaker 5: she specified that it was a food break.

1297
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,240
Speaker 2: And there was what about outside of class? I mean

1298
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 2: having no having her having any say in whether or

1299
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 2: not you have a relationship is already like she's so incredibly.

1300
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,640
Speaker 1: Weight, change the color of your hair. You need to

1301
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 1: lose this much weight, you need to be this, you

1302
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: need to be that.

1303
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 5: Like which I'm managers and agents will tell you that too,

1304
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 5: but not necessarily maybe in the same way.

1305
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:42,720
Speaker 3: Right, I didn't personally have that experience with her. She

1306
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 3: may have said that to other people.

1307
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was I remember my friend who was going

1308
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: to be on had some pretty intense experience.

1309
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,480
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, yeah, yes, I do actually recall that person.

1310
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:56,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, really really strange.

1311
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 2: It's just amazing. Half threatened she felt by any of

1312
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:05,560
Speaker 2: you engaging in just a relationship with someone who's not her.

1313
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, because it would take you away from you know.

1314
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 5: And after the handling that I had with my friend,

1315
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 5: she emailed me and my friend the next day and

1316
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 5: was like, I really just want you guys to be happy,

1317
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 5: and I want you to make sure you're taking care

1318
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 5: of yourself and taking.

1319
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 3: Care of your career. And it was like a completely

1320
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 3: different person.

1321
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: Hmmm.

1322
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 5: And I was like, interesting that you publicly humiliated and

1323
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 5: degraded us, but then privately you send us this On

1324
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 5: the side.

1325
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 2: She puts it on record, the nice version of her,

1326
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 2: and the part that's not recorded is not on record yet.

1327
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:35,840
Speaker 3: But I probably have that email.

1328
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 5: And she would also save every single email and print

1329
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 5: it out and have her assistant file it for each student.

1330
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:42,080
Speaker 4: Wow, it's like that.

1331
01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 2: So did you join scientology officially?

1332
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 5: I did, Yeah, when I was there, like in two

1333
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 5: thousand and seven, like very shortly after Wow, you went

1334
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 5: for oh, I left the same time.

1335
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,120
Speaker 3: I loved her class. I was like, Wow, that's that wow.

1336
01:00:56,560 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 5: I will say about scientology. And I didn't watch any

1337
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:03,800
Speaker 5: of the documenties or what they call en theta about scientology,

1338
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 5: the Bad PR, Black PR. I never watched any of

1339
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,160
Speaker 5: those things until after I left right and then I

1340
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:14,520
Speaker 5: was like, oh, I'm glad I left. I My experience

1341
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 5: at the Celebrity Center was every person that I worked

1342
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 5: with was genuinely really nice and wanted to be helpful.

1343
01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 5: I didn't get like a weird CULTI vibe, but I

1344
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 5: did notice things like you would see the course froom

1345
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 5: instructors like racing to get to their dinner and like

1346
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 5: racing to get back upstairs, and I'm.

1347
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:32,440
Speaker 3: Like, god, they must work really long days.

1348
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 5: Like they first course at nine am and it ends

1349
01:01:34,760 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 5: at ten pm and they only get like thirty minutes

1350
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 5: to eat their dinner, and like it just it seemed

1351
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 5: like a lot.

1352
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 3: But they were also some of.

1353
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 5: The like most non judgmental, loveliest, kindest, patient, oh my god,

1354
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:52,479
Speaker 5: patient people that I'd ever interacted with. So my whole

1355
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 5: thing with religion in general is it is man made

1356
01:01:56,480 --> 01:02:00,440
Speaker 5: and there's a lot of opportunity to twist and tort

1357
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 5: and subvert good intentions, and this happens in every religion.

1358
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:08,440
Speaker 3: With that.

1359
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 5: So I don't know whether those people knew they were

1360
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 5: part of something that is really unhealthy, and so I

1361
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 5: don't really have any like ill will towards them.

1362
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 3: I'm just like, that's not something I want to be

1363
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:17,080
Speaker 3: a part of.

1364
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1365
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:20,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, because once you watch and read the information on it,

1366
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 5: you're like, oh, and just doing more research about high

1367
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 5: control groups and cults and narcissistic abuse and all these things,

1368
01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,400
Speaker 5: You're like, oh, wow, this.

1369
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 4: Is a thing.

1370
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 5: And there's I mean, most of the things from scientology

1371
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 5: that you learn in it, they have their own specific terminology,

1372
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 5: but a lot of it's borrowed from other religions. A

1373
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 5: lot of it from like they talk about nngrams, which

1374
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,400
Speaker 5: has to do with like hidden pain that's in these

1375
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:50,080
Speaker 5: things in your unconscious mind and different energy things. And

1376
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:53,520
Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, so kind of like chakras and yeah,

1377
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 5: Like once you and because I've studied everything, I'm like, oh,

1378
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,160
Speaker 5: so this is kind of like this over here.

1379
01:02:58,280 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: Well.

1380
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 2: And Freud, I mean he drew from so many different

1381
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,120
Speaker 2: so he was like.

1382
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,440
Speaker 5: He was he was in the Navy, but he also

1383
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:09,800
Speaker 5: studied like physics and quantum physics and biology and like

1384
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,120
Speaker 5: all these other things. He studied Buddhism and so you

1385
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:15,160
Speaker 5: see where he's borrowed things from. Yeah, and some of

1386
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 5: the things that I did there were very helpful, and

1387
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 5: some of them I was.

1388
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 2: Like, well, well, I'm glad you didn't have as bad

1389
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 2: an experience with scientology as you did with Gloria. Yeah.

1390
01:03:27,240 --> 01:03:29,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, sounds like she was worse.

1391
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:32,960
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, can you just tell us when you started

1392
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:35,600
Speaker 2: thinking that there was something really actually wrong.

1393
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:39,680
Speaker 5: It started in the pandemic because we weren't physically that

1394
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,120
Speaker 5: is so interesting, in the environment we were on zoom.

1395
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 5: I was still seeing her though, because I was on

1396
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 5: the inner circle, so I would do work for her

1397
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 5: one day a week, so I would have to. I

1398
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 5: would see her one day a week. And my best

1399
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,840
Speaker 5: friend had left class early on in the pandemic, and

1400
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 5: we like loosely stayed in connection, and you know, because

1401
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 5: she was like traveling. So it started with the pandemic

1402
01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 5: when we weren't physically in the environment of the theater

1403
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 5: and around her twenty four to seven, I was still

1404
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 5: seeing her one day a week because I was in

1405
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 5: her inner circle and I was doing work for her.

1406
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 5: But one of my friends left early in twenty twenty,

1407
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 5: and I started to notice this mere campaign that happened

1408
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:21,840
Speaker 5: against her.

1409
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 3: And this woman started saying, well, she's doing this, and

1410
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:25,760
Speaker 3: she's doing this.

1411
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 5: And I would be at her house, you know, doing

1412
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 5: the work that I was doing, and she would say, well,

1413
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 5: you know, so and so met this person. And that's

1414
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 5: because this and this person in class said that he

1415
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:39,800
Speaker 5: saw this about her and everything that she was saying

1416
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:42,120
Speaker 5: was not accurate. And I knew it wasn't accurate because

1417
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 5: I was still in touch with this person, and I.

1418
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 3: Was like, that's really weird.

1419
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 5: I wonder if all the things she said about people

1420
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 5: in the past that left was true. So I just

1421
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 5: started to notice like cracks.

1422
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:53,520
Speaker 4: In the stories.

1423
01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm okay. And my friend was, you know, guys,

1424
01:04:57,400 --> 01:04:59,720
Speaker 5: this isn't a good environment. Guys, this isn't a good environment.

1425
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 5: And actually some of us had a conversation about it

1426
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 5: that we're still in class, and I was like, I

1427
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,600
Speaker 5: think something's wrong here. So I on my own went

1428
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 5: out found this book called Out of the Fog, and

1429
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 5: I listened to it on audio, and it gives an

1430
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 5: example of narcissistic abuse every chapter is about a different

1431
01:05:19,200 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 5: element of it, and then it shares a client example

1432
01:05:22,480 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 5: because it was written by a psychologist or psychiatrist, I'm

1433
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:25,760
Speaker 5: not sure.

1434
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:27,680
Speaker 4: Oh, I can't wait to trade this. It's great.

1435
01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:31,959
Speaker 5: And every single example I read I was like, oh fuck.

1436
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 5: And I also watched a documentary about that sex cult Nexium,

1437
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 5: and I was like, a lot of the behavior traits

1438
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,760
Speaker 5: and the way that he talks to people, not the

1439
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 5: sex cult part, is feeling familiar to me. So just

1440
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 5: all these little cracks in the reality, which is a

1441
01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 5: very traumatic thing to believe the world is one way.

1442
01:05:55,320 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 5: I can't my world is one way, and then all

1443
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 5: of a sudden, you see it's not that way at all.

1444
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:02,280
Speaker 3: And I honestly had like a breakdown.

1445
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:06,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like it's your whole reality is flipped upside.

1446
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 5: And there's actually a podcast with a doctor and she

1447
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:12,760
Speaker 5: interviewed one of the guys that made the next same documentary,

1448
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 5: Mark Vicente, and he says, imagine the person that you

1449
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 5: love the most in the world and that you trust

1450
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 5: the most in the world, and now imagine someone telling

1451
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 5: you that they're just like evil and a murderer and

1452
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 5: all those things.

1453
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:27,400
Speaker 3: How does that make you feel. Watch that resistance.

1454
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 5: I'm like paraphrasing him, but I was like, that's exactly

1455
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,360
Speaker 5: how it felt. It's exactly how it felt. And so

1456
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god, I got to get

1457
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 5: out of here. I was like, I got to get

1458
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 5: out of here. And once I had that realization, I

1459
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:40,920
Speaker 5: started doing all this research on my own and I

1460
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 5: was like telling my friends, you I read this book.

1461
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,320
Speaker 3: Holy shit. I was like, let's go.

1462
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:49,920
Speaker 5: And I set a deadline for myself and I was

1463
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 5: like I have to be gone by this time.

1464
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:52,760
Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm gonna do it. No contact,

1465
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:53,760
Speaker 3: and I'm going to send an email.

1466
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:55,800
Speaker 5: Even though she hated that, and she said everyone always

1467
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 5: left her that way because no one ever left class.

1468
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,919
Speaker 3: On a good term. They always blew right.

1469
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 5: Even if she still spoke kindly of them, she would say, well,

1470
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:04,800
Speaker 5: they blue because they just couldn't hack it or they

1471
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 5: had fear or whatever. But everyone always blew No one

1472
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:09,439
Speaker 5: ever left right.

1473
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 3: There's no reason you could have.

1474
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 5: Because they were working on a series and they didn't

1475
01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 5: have time right right. It was like they're evil, they're

1476
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 5: account they're in resistance or fear or whatever. So I

1477
01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 5: eventually just crafted this email I knew I was going

1478
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:29,080
Speaker 5: to need a therapist, so I hired a therapist right smart.

1479
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:30,760
Speaker 3: And I was like, I want to need help through them.

1480
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 3: And at first.

1481
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,240
Speaker 5: Meeting a habit her, I was like, yes, I'm thinking

1482
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 5: of leaving, and this is everything that's happening. And I

1483
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,960
Speaker 5: was like, so I'm going to go and i'll see

1484
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:41,440
Speaker 5: you next week and then I'll plan out how I'm

1485
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 5: going to go.

1486
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 3: Next week happened, I go, well, I alread left. I

1487
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 3: couldn't wait, and she was like, oh, okay, how did

1488
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 3: you leave?

1489
01:07:48,120 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 5: I sent an email? Right, okay, I sent an email.

1490
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 5: She immediately called me. She immediately called someone else. I

1491
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:56,560
Speaker 5: received text messages from a couple officers. I responded to

1492
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:57,080
Speaker 5: none of it.

1493
01:07:57,600 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1494
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 3: I stayed somewhere else for few.

1495
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,000
Speaker 5: Days because I was afraid that people would show up

1496
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:04,080
Speaker 5: at my house because I had a friend that left

1497
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:07,040
Speaker 5: in twenty eighteen where our friends, not me, but a

1498
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 5: group of our friends.

1499
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 3: Were told to go show up at her house. Well,

1500
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 3: they actually showed about her workplace.

1501
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 5: Wow.

1502
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:14,479
Speaker 3: She snuck out the back and then they showed about

1503
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,719
Speaker 3: her house. Ah, that's so scary.

1504
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 2: Really taking a page from scientology book.

1505
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 4: Also, yeah, wow.

1506
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 2: And just like tried to be like you're making you're

1507
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 2: making choices.

1508
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're fucking up, and we know that you fucked

1509
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,720
Speaker 3: this person. They are like screaming at her, and she's like,

1510
01:08:30,840 --> 01:08:32,799
Speaker 3: what she's.

1511
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:36,800
Speaker 2: Threatened with people with like releasing their secrets?

1512
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 3: Was that a thing?

1513
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 1: Not?

1514
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 5: No, she wouldn't threaten them, But I mean most of

1515
01:08:39,680 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 5: the secrets were released anyway after you left to create

1516
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 5: this mirror.

1517
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:44,839
Speaker 4: Campra, there's no threat. You just know it's happening.

1518
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:47,120
Speaker 5: Or it's released in the middle of a critique, right

1519
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:49,200
Speaker 5: and everyone knows your business all of a sudden. Or

1520
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 5: she used to tell me all kinds of people's secrets

1521
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 5: when I was driving her, and I was like, that's

1522
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 5: that's interesting telling me that violation.

1523
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm sure at the time it felt like, wow,

1524
01:09:01,160 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 2: she must really trust me.

1525
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, trust me, let's all say it together, trust me. Wow,

1526
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 4: she really, really, really is not a nice person.

1527
01:09:15,760 --> 01:09:21,000
Speaker 5: She's a deeply damaged person ultimately, And this is where

1528
01:09:21,040 --> 01:09:24,640
Speaker 5: I see where we see. I think their trauma continues

1529
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,400
Speaker 5: to happen because people don't heal their own trauma. So

1530
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,599
Speaker 5: whatever happened to her, Like I'm there are days where

1531
01:09:30,640 --> 01:09:33,840
Speaker 5: I experience anger. And there are days where I actually

1532
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:36,600
Speaker 5: was like reading one day because I was experiencing a

1533
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:41,400
Speaker 5: lot of like anxiety, a lot of like social anxiety.

1534
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,080
Speaker 3: I was hyper vigilant.

1535
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 5: About people, and I felt like I couldn't trust anybody

1536
01:09:46,479 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 5: because this has only been just over a year and

1537
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:50,720
Speaker 5: so and I was like feeling like I was like

1538
01:09:50,800 --> 01:09:52,080
Speaker 5: losing my sense of reality.

1539
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 3: And I was like, okay, what's going on.

1540
01:09:53,280 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 5: So I was just like reading and talking to my

1541
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:56,799
Speaker 5: therapist and I was like reading about PTSD.

1542
01:09:56,840 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 3: I huh, I've experienced a lot.

1543
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:00,759
Speaker 4: Of those things.

1544
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 3: I was like, that's really interesting. But I don't also

1545
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 3: want to like sit in any of that. I'm always

1546
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 3: like I'm going to fix it and it's gonna be okay.

1547
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:11,000
Speaker 5: I want to get out of that, right, And so

1548
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 5: I just delved into like all forms of healing that

1549
01:10:14,200 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 5: I could find, like energy healing and meditation and reiki

1550
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:18,960
Speaker 5: and like all of this stuff.

1551
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 3: And I just started EMDR therapy.

1552
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:22,880
Speaker 2: Great, we've both done it.

1553
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, which I'm like, I'm watching a blue ball on

1554
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:26,759
Speaker 5: a screen is interesting?

1555
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 3: Literally just started.

1556
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 2: The screen version doesn't work for me. I had to

1557
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 2: do with the audio version, oh okay, or well, actually

1558
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 2: in person, the hands.

1559
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:38,800
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, yeah, I have a ball with noises.

1560
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,519
Speaker 5: And all of you have the noises because I told

1561
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 5: her I wanted both because I didn't want it. But

1562
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,519
Speaker 5: I also do tapping as well, so I'm like, let

1563
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 5: me just do everything.

1564
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,200
Speaker 1: I sometimes listen to the MDR things and tap at

1565
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 1: the same time with affirmations like get out of.

1566
01:10:53,920 --> 01:10:59,799
Speaker 5: Me, because ultimately I think I'm like, Okay, the biggest

1567
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 5: thing that I got out of this is like so

1568
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 5: many I know so many people that are still angry.

1569
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 5: I know people that have massive PTSD dreams about it,

1570
01:11:08,200 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 5: and they've been gone way longer than me, And I'm like,

1571
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:13,760
Speaker 5: I don't want to sit in anger or vengeance or

1572
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,439
Speaker 5: blame of this person because hey, I didn't wake up,

1573
01:11:16,479 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 5: and I could have woken up at any time, but

1574
01:11:19,800 --> 01:11:22,519
Speaker 5: when I did, I was like, well I'm fucking going yeah,

1575
01:11:22,560 --> 01:11:24,639
Speaker 5: and then I was like, okay, well, I don't want

1576
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:28,240
Speaker 5: to take what I internalized and then pass that off

1577
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 5: to someone else. And I also think it's really important

1578
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 5: for when this happens to people to speak out about

1579
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 5: it so that it doesn't continue happening.

1580
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, and also so that.

1581
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 5: People that it has happened to don't think they're fucking crazy,

1582
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 5: because I thought I was crazy. And when Patty Jenkins

1583
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 5: spoke out in that article, it was so emotional for

1584
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:47,639
Speaker 5: me because I was like, I'm not crazy.

1585
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not crazy.

1586
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:51,160
Speaker 2: Well, even in the fact that there was an article

1587
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 2: at all and that many people had things to say,

1588
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:54,480
Speaker 2: it must have been really validating.

1589
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it's shocking that she still is teaching and

1590
01:11:57,360 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 5: still has a class.

1591
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 3: Wow Bolt or is it exactly a Hollywood guys? They

1592
01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:06,840
Speaker 3: kind of yeah, glamorous and many people what sorry.

1593
01:12:06,960 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 5: Many people obviously they all like stop talking to you,

1594
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 5: and they block you and all kinds of things which

1595
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:11,400
Speaker 5: I don't want to.

1596
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 3: See what they're doing.

1597
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 5: Anyway, they like block you and you're like, okay, I

1598
01:12:15,400 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 5: don't care.

1599
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,280
Speaker 2: I did was not like her acting instructure.

1600
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 4: Why what is happening? I have to be there for

1601
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:24,439
Speaker 4: the rest of my actual life.

1602
01:12:24,520 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 3: What I have to go or you can't.

1603
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 5: I didn't get permission to leave, so now I'm the enemy.

1604
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:33,720
Speaker 5: So a lot of people, which I was shocked at.

1605
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 5: Some of the people that said this were like, oh, well, yeah,

1606
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:38,080
Speaker 5: I knew. It was kind of like she was hard

1607
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:40,880
Speaker 5: on some people because she wasn't tough on everybody to

1608
01:12:40,920 --> 01:12:43,439
Speaker 5: the same degree, and they would say, well, I mean

1609
01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:45,080
Speaker 5: they kind of let it happen to them.

1610
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:45,960
Speaker 3: So that's why she.

1611
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 5: And I was like, if the anger flared up, are

1612
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 5: you gonna victim shame? Yeah, you're going to say that

1613
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 5: you witness this happening and just because it didn't happen

1614
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 5: to you, that that's okay. And a friend of mine

1615
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 5: that's no longer in the class as well, she pointed out,

1616
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,320
Speaker 5: and she said, you know, the people that stayed after

1617
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:09,080
Speaker 5: the article, that were there when we were there, it's

1618
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 5: really hard if you read that and you see that

1619
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:13,719
Speaker 5: and you know that it's abuse, but because it didn't

1620
01:13:13,760 --> 01:13:16,639
Speaker 5: happen to you, you're like, well, you know, it's okay.

1621
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:19,000
Speaker 5: And it's like, if you were to sit there and say,

1622
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:23,400
Speaker 5: I support this person, the dissonance that you probably experience,

1623
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 5: what are you going to do?

1624
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 3: You're gonna admit to yourself that you're a.

1625
01:13:25,680 --> 01:13:28,080
Speaker 5: Coward and that's why you're saying Or are you going

1626
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 5: to get mad and angry and blame and hate the

1627
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 5: person because that's easier.

1628
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly that the discomfort of that cognitive distance is

1629
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:38,519
Speaker 2: so extreme, like it makes sense why. I mean, so

1630
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,720
Speaker 2: many people in colds do this. They double down when

1631
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 2: when the information comes at them that is uncomfortable.

1632
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:44,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're like no, no.

1633
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 4: No, no, like everyone, even yeah, me, all of us.

1634
01:13:47,479 --> 01:13:49,479
Speaker 4: I feel like, yeah, no, it's just human.

1635
01:13:49,640 --> 01:13:52,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's what it is. So I'm just like, all right,

1636
01:13:52,160 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 3: you'll wake up or you won't. You know, that's fine.

1637
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,240
Speaker 5: But I just feel it's really important for anyone that

1638
01:13:57,360 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 5: was in that experience or any experience.

1639
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 3: Like it, to just always speak out, always speak.

1640
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:03,320
Speaker 5: Out, and not speak out in anger and hate and blame,

1641
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 5: because then that message just gets lost and it just.

1642
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,480
Speaker 3: Creates, you know, a fight that's irrelevant.

1643
01:14:08,680 --> 01:14:08,920
Speaker 4: Yep.

1644
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:10,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't solve anything.

1645
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. People just need to not be harmed, and that

1646
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:13,759
Speaker 2: is the goal.

1647
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:15,880
Speaker 5: Yeah right, and then when they are, they need to

1648
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:18,320
Speaker 5: work on healing it for themselves so that it does

1649
01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 5: not continue.

1650
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:21,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1651
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:23,719
Speaker 4: Yes, I think I phrased that badly.

1652
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 2: But my point is when we speak out, it is

1653
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 2: to prevent people from being harmed, as opposed to just

1654
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 2: like taking down the person.

1655
01:14:29,680 --> 01:14:30,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

1656
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 2: Yes, Steve wanted us to circle back really fast.

1657
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 3: Who wrote a chapter about her?

1658
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:34,439
Speaker 2: What was that?

1659
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:35,920
Speaker 3: Oh?

1660
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:37,400
Speaker 5: I don't remember the name of the book. But the

1661
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 5: actor was and I say his name, I don't even

1662
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 5: know him. His name's Dante Bosco. And I just I

1663
01:14:44,479 --> 01:14:47,439
Speaker 5: knew that she had spoken about it in class, so

1664
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 5: I knew that he'd written a chapter about it. And

1665
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:52,560
Speaker 5: so after it was right before I left, I was

1666
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 5: already planning on leaving, and I read the chapter and I.

1667
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 4: Went, oh, he's saying something.

1668
01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:58,759
Speaker 3: What are you saying, Steve, This is Rufio that she's talking.

1669
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 3: He's Rufio, my favorite movie.

1670
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:11,040
Speaker 2: I love Ruth's my crush. He was my crush. Ohne Okay.

1671
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,200
Speaker 5: So he wrote a very brief chapter that was very

1672
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:17,559
Speaker 5: you know, it was it was he just talked about

1673
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:20,559
Speaker 5: the complications in his life and his relationships, having been

1674
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 5: with her since he was a kid, because he was

1675
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:24,680
Speaker 5: with her for like almost twenty years, like all him

1676
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 5: and all of his siblings, and she would tell the

1677
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:28,240
Speaker 5: story in class, like because he was one of the

1678
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 5: people that left in two thousand and six. Oh, but

1679
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:34,400
Speaker 5: I only ever heard her side of the story. So

1680
01:15:34,520 --> 01:15:36,880
Speaker 5: when I read that little chapter, I was like, oh,

1681
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 5: And he credited her with a lot of things, but

1682
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:40,360
Speaker 5: then also said, you know, I struggle, like I don't

1683
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:41,880
Speaker 5: know if it was right or if it was wrong.

1684
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 5: So he really wasn't coming from a place of blame

1685
01:15:44,280 --> 01:15:45,040
Speaker 5: or anger either.

1686
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:46,920
Speaker 3: It was just sort of like putting it out there,

1687
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, interesting, interesting, So what have

1688
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:54,839
Speaker 3: you learned? What have I learned?

1689
01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 5: Anytime anyone says that they are the soul answer and

1690
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 5: sole expert about whatever it is, be skeptical. Yeah, or

1691
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:08,280
Speaker 5: asks you to divulge all of your vulnerabilities and dark

1692
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:09,800
Speaker 5: secrets right up front.

1693
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:17,120
Speaker 2: Me as an overshare of thote anyone who you're like, So, anyway,

1694
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:19,120
Speaker 2: I thought I was in this cult for fourteen What

1695
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 2: about your trauma? Yeah, Nope, that all sounds good.

1696
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 5: Tracks Yeah, and just I think if everyone would do

1697
01:16:29,680 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 5: due diligence and research on emotional and psychological and narcissistic abuse,

1698
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:39,000
Speaker 5: I mean, narcissistic abuse is kind of trending right now,

1699
01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:42,479
Speaker 5: which is fortunate and unfortunate because people tend to ignore

1700
01:16:42,560 --> 01:16:44,760
Speaker 5: things that are trending often or they forget about them

1701
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 5: after they're done trending. Right, But it's been an existence

1702
01:16:49,040 --> 01:16:51,200
Speaker 5: way before and it will continue to be in existence

1703
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:51,800
Speaker 5: way after.

1704
01:16:51,880 --> 01:16:53,360
Speaker 3: Absolutely, because I.

1705
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:54,920
Speaker 5: Didn't know what any of these things were, Like, I

1706
01:16:54,960 --> 01:16:56,599
Speaker 5: was telling you, I didn't know what these red flags were.

1707
01:16:56,640 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 5: I had no idea that this existed in human nature

1708
01:16:59,400 --> 01:17:02,320
Speaker 5: like you see on the news like, oh, somebody murdered somebody,

1709
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,479
Speaker 5: or somebody went to jail for embezzlement, but you don't

1710
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:07,640
Speaker 5: like think it's going to happen to you, right, And

1711
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:11,760
Speaker 5: I also learned that because nobody signs up and it's like, yeah,

1712
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:13,920
Speaker 5: I want to be part of like a high control

1713
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:19,479
Speaker 5: group or call whatever. It usually comes from wanting to

1714
01:17:20,000 --> 01:17:22,760
Speaker 5: like believing in something greater than yourself and wanting to

1715
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,240
Speaker 5: be a part of that change or that improvement.

1716
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:26,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then somehow you just.

1717
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 2: Get yeah, I have nothing to say to that, but yeah,

1718
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:33,240
Speaker 2: apparently no. But I think I think it's amazing that

1719
01:17:33,280 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 2: you're speaking out about this, and God, I'm so sorry

1720
01:17:37,120 --> 01:17:39,360
Speaker 2: that this much of your life went to this person

1721
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:41,599
Speaker 2: in this program. But it sounds like you have really

1722
01:17:41,640 --> 01:17:44,400
Speaker 2: come out on the other side in a really positive,

1723
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 2: constructive way.

1724
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, trying every day.

1725
01:17:46,960 --> 01:17:50,360
Speaker 5: Everyone should funnel their pain into any creative outlet they find.

1726
01:17:50,479 --> 01:17:52,720
Speaker 4: Are you writing a movie about this? No?

1727
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:54,559
Speaker 5: I don't know if I want to stay in it

1728
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:56,400
Speaker 5: in that way. I kind of want to just move on.

1729
01:17:57,360 --> 01:17:59,759
Speaker 5: But I did start a new acting class.

1730
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 4: What what is that?

1731
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:07,120
Speaker 5: I And then that really made me go, oh wow,

1732
01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 5: this is what an acting class is like. It's always like,

1733
01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:12,719
Speaker 5: you know, we're really respectful. If you feel uncomfortable with something,

1734
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 5: say it, you don't need to, and it's it's actually

1735
01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 5: what an acting class I think should be. You're not

1736
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 5: learning how to act. It is simply a playground for

1737
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:25,120
Speaker 5: you to explore together. So the teacher even says, I'm

1738
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:26,439
Speaker 5: not I'm not like teaching you.

1739
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:28,759
Speaker 3: I'm not your guide. We're like collaborating here.

1740
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:33,320
Speaker 5: And unless that's really interesting, like I'm creating.

1741
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 3: An environment for you to discover the answers.

1742
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 5: And so I through that class I really realized, oh,

1743
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:41,599
Speaker 5: this is my my point of view as an artist.

1744
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 3: Okay, that makes sense.

1745
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:46,679
Speaker 5: I had the opportunity to write something, I started painting again,

1746
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 5: and so I've created a whole series of paintings.

1747
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:49,360
Speaker 1: Cool.

1748
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 5: So anytime I just like, I'm like, okay, I need

1749
01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:56,559
Speaker 5: a positive outlet for this. That's I just I'm all

1750
01:18:56,600 --> 01:19:00,519
Speaker 5: for art being therapy absolutely same.

1751
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 2: Wow, Yeah, that sounds like such a healthier environment to

1752
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 2: be in. It really should be collaborative and it should

1753
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:08,800
Speaker 2: you should be able to have boundaries.

1754
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:12,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, she talks about boundaries all the time. You're like really.

1755
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 4: Nice, Like, okay, great, that's awesome.

1756
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,640
Speaker 2: Well, can people find you on social media or is

1757
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 2: there anything you'd like to share?

1758
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 5: I didn't even think about that. Uh yeah, Abigail on fire,

1759
01:19:26,400 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 5: I post sort of often.

1760
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so often. And then my art is on Sacred

1761
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:33,200
Speaker 3: Healing underscool.

1762
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:36,760
Speaker 2: Ooh cool, we will check it out. Thank you for

1763
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:37,880
Speaker 2: joining us and telling us.

1764
01:19:38,360 --> 01:19:39,439
Speaker 3: You guys so much.

1765
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 1: Thank you, So Lola, let's try something different this time. Okay,

1766
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 1: we already know if I would join the class, because

1767
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 1: I did join the class. What about you, I'm gonna

1768
01:19:50,760 --> 01:19:53,719
Speaker 1: ask you, do you think that you would join this class?

1769
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:58,720
Speaker 2: I have the tables have turned. I think that I

1770
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 2: could end up in this class very easily, because I

1771
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 2: don't really know. I'm not like I think I said

1772
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:05,760
Speaker 2: this already in the interview, but I'm not like an

1773
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:08,599
Speaker 2: acting class person, So I would just be like, hey,

1774
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 2: pals who act, I like need to brush up on

1775
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:14,679
Speaker 2: my acting? Where should I go? And I would probably

1776
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:17,160
Speaker 2: just take whatever recommendation they gave me, because I'm like,

1777
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's an acting class who cares?

1778
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 1: I mean, like it's pretty easy to have your acting

1779
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:23,240
Speaker 1: class be culty.

1780
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:26,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that is the thing. Although the class

1781
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 2: that Abigail was just talking about the end sounds like

1782
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:32,760
Speaker 2: a much healthier way to approach that sort of thing. Absolutely, Yeah,

1783
01:20:32,760 --> 01:20:34,880
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't think it would be something that

1784
01:20:34,920 --> 01:20:37,679
Speaker 2: I would want to stay in for very long because

1785
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:40,559
Speaker 2: for the probably the same reason that you didn't stay,

1786
01:20:41,160 --> 01:20:43,519
Speaker 2: which is just that, like I get so anxious about

1787
01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 2: my time. Yeah, and if I feel like something is

1788
01:20:46,200 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 2: like taking hours and the like, I'm like, I have

1789
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 2: to go write my script. I have to go write

1790
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:50,960
Speaker 2: my script.

1791
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1792
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 2: If it were a screenwriting or like a directing thing,

1793
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:57,519
Speaker 2: then I think maybe I would be more inclined to

1794
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 2: like stay a bit longer, give it a few more hours.

1795
01:21:01,200 --> 01:21:03,240
Speaker 2: I do love acting, though, you guys cast me.

1796
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,360
Speaker 1: Okay, but don't expect me to prepare.

1797
01:21:08,040 --> 01:21:08,479
Speaker 4: Just kidding.

1798
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can see that you would probably join it,

1799
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 1: and then you would probably also leave it, just like

1800
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 1: Abigail and I ended up doing. And for anyone who

1801
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:22,360
Speaker 1: is still in the class maybe listening, you can always

1802
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:24,840
Speaker 1: contact me to either say that you hate me or

1803
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:27,240
Speaker 1: thank me, whichever all.

1804
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:29,320
Speaker 2: Good or both at once.

1805
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: We're both yeah whatever, but uh listen, we can't wait

1806
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:35,240
Speaker 1: to see you here next week.

1807
01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:36,599
Speaker 4: You know what I'm gonna say.

1808
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 1: Remember to watch out for red flags now, remember to

1809
01:21:41,320 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 1: follow your gut, watch out for red flags.

1810
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:53,080
Speaker 2: And never ever try to trust me. He trust Me

1811
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:56,680
Speaker 2: is produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and Steve Delemater.

1812
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 4: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1813
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,719
Speaker 2: And her theme song was composed by Hall the Amber Church.

1814
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1815
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:07,719
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cultpod, or on TikTok at trust

1816
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:09,040
Speaker 1: Me Cult Podcast.

1817
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:12,520
Speaker 2: I'm Ula Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1818
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Bebraham

1819
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1820
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:19,559
Speaker 2: Remember to rate and review and spread the word.