Speaker 1: Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener, discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: In two thousand seventeen, two students at Cambridge University wrote
Speaker 1: a musical about the six wives of Henry the Eighth.
Speaker 1: The show began with performances at Edinburgh Fringe and from
Speaker 1: there it went from something of an underground cult phenomenon
Speaker 1: to bona fide global hit within just a few years.
Speaker 1: And that's accounting for the COVID shutdown that hit on
Speaker 1: what was supposed to be their opening night on Broadway.
Speaker 1: The musical Six is staged almost like a pop concert,
Speaker 1: in which the six wives of Henry the Eighth, Catherine
Speaker 1: of Aragon and Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Katherine Howard and Catherine Parr,
Speaker 1: don many skirts, bustier's heels and boots, and belt out
Speaker 1: individual solos inspired by divas like Beyonce and Nicki Minaj.
Speaker 1: It's a loose interpretation of history. After all, the queens
Speaker 1: in real life might have had lovely singing voices, but
Speaker 1: I doubt that they could belt or dance like the
Speaker 1: actors on Broadway and the West End. But the historical
Speaker 1: spirit of each of the numbers is accurate their subjective
Speaker 1: but valid interpretations of the histories of the Doomed Queens
Speaker 1: that center their agency and their own experiences. The show
Speaker 1: is especially exciting to me because I think that any
Speaker 1: time conversations about Tutor history take the mainstream spotlight, it
Speaker 1: gets people excited about delving into the actual history. After all,
Speaker 1: people are able to enjoy infectiously catchy songs while at
Speaker 1: the same time understanding that the real Anne of Cleave's
Speaker 1: never wore fish nets. I am so excited to be
Speaker 1: able to sit down virtually with the shows two co writers,
Speaker 1: Toby Marlowe and Lucy Moss, and talk about history, theater
Speaker 1: and the way we talk about history in the public discourse.
Speaker 1: The show came about when we were in our third
Speaker 1: year of UNI and the university's Musical Theater Society wants
Speaker 1: to take an original musical to the Adamburgh Fringe Festival,
Speaker 1: and I like applied to do that with like not
Speaker 1: an idea for a show, with a kind of criteria
Speaker 1: for the show that I thought would get me the
Speaker 1: gig of writing it and not lose the society money,
Speaker 1: which is basically having a show that had famous subject
Speaker 1: matter people would you know, looking to get topics. That's
Speaker 1: something I recognize. Something that had pop music because it's
Speaker 1: the best one, something that played around with the form,
Speaker 1: and so like that the songs came about like an
Speaker 1: interesting way or like a natural way as supposed to,
Speaker 1: like breaking into song because that kind of relienate people
Speaker 1: from musical sometimes. And also something that had a majority
Speaker 1: of lee all all female cast, because you know, there
Speaker 1: were lots of conversations happening at the time amongst our
Speaker 1: friendship group and in the media as well and in
Speaker 1: our degrees about like you know, representation, particularly you know,
Speaker 1: of women in musical theater and the kind of songs
Speaker 1: that they get and the kind of roles that they get,
Speaker 1: and how often like the meaty, funny, charismatic parts are
Speaker 1: usually for boys, and so you know, I thought would
Speaker 1: be a good opportunity to redress that and give our
Speaker 1: amazing talented friends some fun songs. Anyway, they gave me
Speaker 1: the gig and they were like, okay, come up with
Speaker 1: an idea, and then I was like, okay, what's a
Speaker 1: famous group of women. It was six wis n The
Speaker 1: eighth was the first one that came to mind, and
Speaker 1: then it was okay, what's like a way of fitting
Speaker 1: that into an Hour at the Fringe with pop music
Speaker 1: in a way that the song was come about in
Speaker 1: an interesting way. And then that's where the popcorn's idea
Speaker 1: came from. And then the second I came up with
Speaker 1: that AC called Lucy and I was like, I've got
Speaker 1: this wacky idea for a musical. Do you want to
Speaker 1: write it with me? And he was like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: it sounds a bit crap. But what were your experiences
Speaker 1: or knowledge base when it came to the Six Wives
Speaker 1: of Henry the Eighth before you began writing. I'm sure
Speaker 1: in the UK you probably learn a little bit more
Speaker 1: about it in school than we do in America. Yeah,
Speaker 1: as you say, in the UK, it's the kind of
Speaker 1: thing that you, at various points in your school career
Speaker 1: will be kind of taught about Henry the Eighth and
Speaker 1: the Six Wives, and everyone will know divorce Head and
Speaker 1: died divorce Heads five and kind of knows about an
Speaker 1: Berlyn being aheaded. So it's sort of like a big,
Speaker 1: like cultural moment, but it's also something that I feel
Speaker 1: like you kind of learn about when you're like six,
Speaker 1: and then again when you're sort of eleven, and then
Speaker 1: at some other point, and then you forget all about
Speaker 1: it by the time you're growing up, so you can
Speaker 1: only remember the kind of like the key elements of it.
Speaker 1: And then whenever someone does go oh yeah, and then
Speaker 1: it's of like there was like a breaking away from
Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. I was like, Oh, yes, it's sort
Speaker 1: of stuff that people kind of like remember on some level,
Speaker 1: but it's not kind of like, you know, right at
Speaker 1: the forefront for everybody. Lots of people are Massi Touda fans,
Speaker 1: but especially for myself, I didn't really know like loads
Speaker 1: about them as individuals, or I couldn't really remember exactly
Speaker 1: what their significance was. However, at the time, I was
Speaker 1: studying history, and I was actually looking a lot at
Speaker 1: early modern German visual culture, so kind of all the
Speaker 1: hands holdbines stuff that's in this show was kind of
Speaker 1: what I was focusing on my degree, and also kind
Speaker 1: of feminist revisionist history of that period, so I was
Speaker 1: quite familiar with the Reformation and the kind of like
Speaker 1: cultural background and the sort of historical background of that time,
Speaker 1: and especially in terms of the sort of like scholarship
Speaker 1: that was happening at the time of writing in regard
Speaker 1: to that period, but it wasn't really anything to do
Speaker 1: with British history and the queens for me. You know,
Speaker 1: each of the queens in the musical I have such
Speaker 1: a distinct personality and their song is such a distinct style.
Speaker 1: Which was hardest for you to write and which was easiest?
Speaker 1: Which came most naturally? Oh, that's a good question. With
Speaker 1: some of them, they were like parts of it that
Speaker 1: were really easy to write, them parts of it really hard.
Speaker 1: And I feel like maybe the song get Down answers
Speaker 1: both of those things, because the verses that came up
Speaker 1: like the quickest that we've have written something, and it
Speaker 1: was so fun and enjoy what we knew exactly what
Speaker 1: the vibe was going to be, like brainstorming these stupid
Speaker 1: puns and lyrics and rhymes, and then it all came
Speaker 1: out really really quickly because we knew it was going
Speaker 1: to be her like bragging about her riches. Get Down.
Speaker 1: If you haven't listened to the musical yet, which you
Speaker 1: absolutely should because it's available for streaming, and go see
Speaker 1: it if you're anywhere near New York. Is the song
Speaker 1: that Anne of Cleave's sings set post her divorce from Henry,
Speaker 1: bragging about her life as a single woman. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: and the verses of her being like I want to
Speaker 1: go hunting, you know, eating pheasants, sipping on meal at
Speaker 1: all these things and that kind of stuff was like
Speaker 1: fun and came up really quickly. But then the choruses
Speaker 1: took us literally forever because we were like just massively
Speaker 1: overthinking that. Okay, we know, we know this message of
Speaker 1: like Henry's rejected her and like painted her into a corner,
Speaker 1: but now he's like you thought of the faded flower,
Speaker 1: but I went packed when the rose. But it was
Speaker 1: just taking forever. And then Lucy was revising like the
Speaker 1: library and you like like Toby Toby, You said like
Speaker 1: Trickture profile picture, and I was like, there we go.
Speaker 1: That's it literally cracked it like a goddamn it. And
Speaker 1: then from that it just came up with the thing
Speaker 1: do you have any favorite songs? I know it might
Speaker 1: be like picking the children, but do you have like
Speaker 1: a favorite deep in your heart? I think I have
Speaker 1: like favorites for different reasons. I feel like as a
Speaker 1: number and a piece of storytelling, as a whole when
Speaker 1: you see the show. Katherine Howard's song All You Want
Speaker 1: to Do is my favorite in terms of the synthesis
Speaker 1: of all the departments, and also it feels like the
Speaker 1: place where the concept of it being a pop concert
Speaker 1: and they're being stories told through pop songs. It feels
Speaker 1: like where that comes to fruition most because it sort
Speaker 1: of uses the repetitive structure of a pop song to
Speaker 1: kind of like mirror this sort of like cycle of
Speaker 1: abuse and change, a perspective that Katherine Howard has through
Speaker 1: her life, and it also choreographically uses the visual storytelling
Speaker 1: of something like a sort of Britney Spears concert choreographically
Speaker 1: to them kind of tell this story. So it feels
Speaker 1: that that's sort of the best place where storytelling and
Speaker 1: the kind of concept of being a pop show kind
Speaker 1: of come together. But then in terms of like story,
Speaker 1: I think Get Downs one of my face because it's
Speaker 1: like a really positive narrative someone who got to sort
Speaker 1: of just like succeed and it's really fun to sort
Speaker 1: of be like, oh, you've heard about this woman as
Speaker 1: somebody who had a really bad time. Actually the narrative
Speaker 1: is all to do with her relationship to Henry, and
Speaker 1: when you take Henry kind of out of it, he
Speaker 1: actually wasn't as relevant to her life as maybe she
Speaker 1: was to You get to see a really positive narrative
Speaker 1: be told on stage, but then musically it's like, I
Speaker 1: don't need your love is you know when we were
Speaker 1: writing it and you kind of feel like, oh, I
Speaker 1: was the same voicem of this thing. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is my favorite song, so it's gonna be my
Speaker 1: favorite song brother. So yeah, I want to talk a
Speaker 1: little bit more about the Katherine Howard song that you
Speaker 1: mentioned All You Want to Do, which is so brilliant
Speaker 1: and I think recasts Katherine Howard, who sometimes dismissed even
Speaker 1: by historians, just to sort of this frivolous girl who
Speaker 1: flirted and maybe deserved the fate of beheading that she got.
Speaker 1: But I think it was so powerful the way that
Speaker 1: you recognize and reckon with the way that she was
Speaker 1: sexualized at the time, but also the way we sexualized
Speaker 1: Britney Spears as a sixteen year old. Was it always
Speaker 1: your intention or reinterpretation to approach the subject matter that
Speaker 1: way or were you surprised the more you delve into
Speaker 1: the actual history, like when you were learning about the history.
Speaker 1: Were their aspects of her life that you were surprised
Speaker 1: to learn about. I don't know, definitely aspects of all
Speaker 1: of their lives that we were surprised, especially because we
Speaker 1: didn't know Trabals beforehand. But I have to say, I
Speaker 1: think that the idea of like redressing a historical wrong,
Speaker 1: or redressing an imbalance, or giving back the microphone to
Speaker 1: people who have been kept out of the spotlight for
Speaker 1: so long or whatever, that was kind of at the
Speaker 1: center of the show, and the idea of the show
Speaker 1: before we even decided, before the Six Wives was even
Speaker 1: the thing, before it even was about them, it was
Speaker 1: kind of this thing, as Toby says, we were sort
Speaker 1: of being like, you know, Toby applied with this criteria,
Speaker 1: being like, I want to do a group of like
Speaker 1: women kind of like taking the center of the stage.
Speaker 1: Because we were talking so much about marginalization of women's
Speaker 1: voices at the time, and similarly both of our degrees
Speaker 1: that everything we were writing about was this kind of
Speaker 1: how to like redress who has been like written out
Speaker 1: history and what we think of as important narratives or
Speaker 1: not just history whose voices we haven't been listening to,
Speaker 1: so I think that honestly, probably we like came to
Speaker 1: the subject of it with that intention, without actually having
Speaker 1: engaged with what the preconceptions were, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Were there any moments where you sort of purposefully recognized like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this may not be quite historically accurate, but we're going
Speaker 1: to make this t week to serve the musical as
Speaker 1: a whole. Or did he try to stick to incredible
Speaker 1: historical accuracy throughout? I think with amberleyn as a person
Speaker 1: with whom that's most resonates, because a lot of the
Speaker 1: way we interupted the queens are sort of Okay, this
Speaker 1: is how they've been seen and how can we subvert that?
Speaker 1: And the kind of conversation around an Bleyn is there's
Speaker 1: just so much hysteria around her, particularly from male historians
Speaker 1: and people writing narratives about hand. But it's just like
Speaker 1: the noise and mythology around her is all to do
Speaker 1: with her. It's just so inextricable from gendered kind of
Speaker 1: terms of her being this kind of like which the
Speaker 1: ductress so kind of yeah kind of and it's like
Speaker 1: sort of basically we're like looking at that hysterian we
Speaker 1: were like, what would be kind of like a funny
Speaker 1: way to subvert that and kind of like laugh at
Speaker 1: the intense speculation of her life. And we we were like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe she doesn't mean to be kind of calculating, but
Speaker 1: everyone's reading that into her behavior. And that was similarly
Speaker 1: a thing where like something like that happened to me
Speaker 1: at the time, where someone accused me of being really
Speaker 1: niftib so I wish I was that smart, like no idea,
Speaker 1: just living my life at thing. But then like historically,
Speaker 1: like when you actually read about her, you know she
Speaker 1: probably was really cunning. So im like call it charismatics.
Speaker 1: I call it kind of small and like politically aware.
Speaker 1: Other who might call it sort of beguiling, like whatever
Speaker 1: you want to you know, however you want to frame it.
Speaker 1: So there's a kind of like thing where we're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we sort of took one of the most like empowered,
Speaker 1: small like women's history and sort of made her the spot.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, I don't know what I'm doing or
Speaker 1: what that may be. Is a place where we kind
Speaker 1: of like prioritize the historiographic discourse as opposed to the
Speaker 1: actual historical truth that might have been. I mean, whatever
Speaker 1: that means and just for listeners, the Anne Boland song,
Speaker 1: the repeated choruses sorry not sorry, what was I meant
Speaker 1: to do? Just this story of like a girl coming
Speaker 1: over from France to England and just living her life.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think those two ideas can coexist.
Speaker 1: I like the idea that a musical can bring the
Speaker 1: conversation about Tudor history to the mainstream. People can sing
Speaker 1: along to catchy songs and then think like, Okay, well,
Speaker 1: if I want to learn more about the actual history,
Speaker 1: I can do more than listen to a three and
Speaker 1: a half minutes on I can like go read a
Speaker 1: history book. I know that COVID unfortunately put a slight
Speaker 1: damper on your original Broadway plans. Can you speak as
Speaker 1: to what that experience was like, Yeah, gosh, it was
Speaker 1: a long time ago now, Yeah, March March unsurprisingly where
Speaker 1: we were over here in New York to open the
Speaker 1: show on Broadway. Yeah, and then it was kind of
Speaker 1: in the weeks leading up to it, where like COVID
Speaker 1: was becoming the more persistent news story and people were
Speaker 1: talking about it and more and acting differently about it.
Speaker 1: And I think we're looking back on it. I think
Speaker 1: I was just putting it to the back of my
Speaker 1: mind and oh, it's a thing that will like pass
Speaker 1: because I was so like tunnel vision about this Broadway
Speaker 1: open we had. And then in a few days before
Speaker 1: I just wasn't like the day before we meant to open,
Speaker 1: and that was a news story that came out about
Speaker 1: an usher who had been working at some theaters, including
Speaker 1: the Six Theaters, who DESI positive for COVID. I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: it's in New York. It's hell, what's going on? Like
Speaker 1: it's it's like all my doorstet andy, do I have it?
Speaker 1: What's going on? And then that was the twenty four
Speaker 1: hours of like, are we're gonna open the show? We're
Speaker 1: not going to the showt what's going to we have
Speaker 1: the powers and not like like like well and there's
Speaker 1: like all these things, and then we were just told
Speaker 1: to like about our day as if we were going
Speaker 1: to open. Meanwhile, like all the producers and all the
Speaker 1: people were having like a hundred meetings all the different
Speaker 1: Broadway leagues and mayors and various things. And then about
Speaker 1: like an hour and a half before we were meant
Speaker 1: to go to the red carpet, we found out that
Speaker 1: New York was shutting down that afternoon, and all the
Speaker 1: theaters were going dark and we weren'tna have our opening night.
Speaker 1: And then I was a bit like, okay, well, that's
Speaker 1: good to know that we don't have to make that
Speaker 1: decision that's been made for us. What means this OVID
Speaker 1: thing is very serious? How can I get back home
Speaker 1: as soon as possible? How can I get my grandparents home,
Speaker 1: who have like flown out to New York. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: all became a bit into logistical mode of getting back
Speaker 1: home in case I was going to be, you know,
Speaker 1: some kind of international lockdown, a global pandemic or anything. So, Lucy,
Speaker 1: is it true that you were in a car hearing
Speaker 1: about it on the radio as it happened. It's absolutely true.
Speaker 1: I was. Yeah, I was in a cab going to
Speaker 1: get my hair done, and Governor Cuomo came on the
Speaker 1: radio saying and then this was about like two o'clock,
Speaker 1: one o'clock or something, saying, from tomorrow at five pm,
Speaker 1: all meetings of five people are going to be closed down.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, so we're going ahead. Then it
Speaker 1: was like except for Broadway, which will shot from five
Speaker 1: pm tonight. I was like, okay, and I actually got
Speaker 1: out of the cab and then I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess I don't need to get my head done
Speaker 1: got back into another cabin, but oh my god. I
Speaker 1: think also people maybe don't understand, like what was the
Speaker 1: process like going from Edinburgh Fringe to Broadway, which spoiler
Speaker 1: alert you did eventually open. What were sort of the
Speaker 1: steps involved, you know, for people who don't really know
Speaker 1: how theater works behind the scenes. Yeah, I mean it
Speaker 1: kind of happened. We had it as a student production
Speaker 1: at the ed of a fringe festival, and like gradually
Speaker 1: throughout that month, various theatery people from London and from
Speaker 1: parts of the country. We're like coming to see the
Speaker 1: show and then getting us like business cards and being like,
Speaker 1: let's have coffee and talk about your shop. They were
Speaker 1: all from nineteen twenties New York. No yet with fact
Speaker 1: that even in London everyone that works in theater as
Speaker 1: a producer has that accent and it always has a
Speaker 1: cigar in their mouth. It's it's a it's a weird
Speaker 1: kind of like cultural facing but um, and then we
Speaker 1: kind of were like, Okay, we're going to wait till
Speaker 1: after the fringe because this is almost scary, and because
Speaker 1: we weren't in the same place, and so we're just like,
Speaker 1: let's wait untilward we're back. And then a producer called
Speaker 1: Kenny Wax ended up coming to see the show when
Speaker 1: we did a home run back at Cambridge and then
Speaker 1: he was like, come to my office next week for
Speaker 1: a meeting. And then he was like, I'm doing a
Speaker 1: West End show over Christmas and there's a few Mondays
Speaker 1: where the show isn't on. I'd like to do like
Speaker 1: a showcase of your show. And we were like okay,
Speaker 1: and then he kind of joined forces with some other
Speaker 1: producers that we've met, and yeah, so then we did
Speaker 1: the showcases in this West End theater and that was
Speaker 1: kind of like the biggest jump was going from doing
Speaker 1: a student show at the Fringe to then a few
Speaker 1: months later doing this like showcase production at a west
Speaker 1: End theater, got paid, were being paid to do it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like it was bizarre. And that's the kind
Speaker 1: of like the major leap that happened, I guess because
Speaker 1: that went well and as well received. The producers were like,
Speaker 1: let's make a good album. We're gonna make a We're
Speaker 1: gonna make an album and it's gonna be huge, and
Speaker 1: then so we like we did that, and then that
Speaker 1: kind of was also us preparing to do a first
Speaker 1: professional UK tour, and then that ended up going to
Speaker 1: London for a bit and then it was well received there,
Speaker 1: so then it went back to London and kind of
Speaker 1: set up shopping a theater there called the Arts Theater,
Speaker 1: and then from there and then went to America and
Speaker 1: started the Chicago production. Then also a UK tour happened,
Speaker 1: and then then it went out into cruises, then I
Speaker 1: went out into Australia, and then all kind of gradually
Speaker 1: led to Broadway shut down. Because as quickly as it
Speaker 1: as it came about I mentioned a little earlier, both
Speaker 1: of my sisters are in Chicago. I'm in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: They know that I love, you know, particularly British and
Speaker 1: French royal history, and they both saw it without me,
Speaker 1: and I've never been more heartbreak. And because I had
Speaker 1: been listening to the album for weeks at that point
Speaker 1: and has already obsessed with the show, I'm curious did
Speaker 1: you make any changes or did people ask you to
Speaker 1: make any changes for American audiences. So people were like,
Speaker 1: you know, obviously the question about the form was like
Speaker 1: people going to get it? Are they're gonna like it?
Speaker 1: Like what's going on? Like it's the British story. Do
Speaker 1: people know anything about it? But kind of, as I
Speaker 1: said before, like we didn't really know anything about the
Speaker 1: wives or we couldn't really remember what we what we
Speaker 1: had previously known to. The whole show is kind of
Speaker 1: written to sort of tell you what your quote unquote
Speaker 1: is supposed to already know, but then also and then
Speaker 1: kind of engage with it. So that was kind of
Speaker 1: one thing where we're like, okay, like it does actually
Speaker 1: give people the information that they need. And the other
Speaker 1: thing was when we kind of turned up here, it
Speaker 1: basically became clear that although you know, the history is dish,
Speaker 1: the like former pop concerts as sort of as American
Speaker 1: as can be and actually you know in the UK
Speaker 1: has to be like how are you doing tonight? And
Speaker 1: everyone's like yeah, and it's like come on, we said
Speaker 1: how you know, they're like okay, I'm allowed to be stuff.
Speaker 1: Where I was here, it's like the lights go down.
Speaker 1: It's like so we're like, okay, they don't need to
Speaker 1: help with that. But in terms of like rewrite, it
Speaker 1: was mostly just tiny little things like colloquialisms saying friends
Speaker 1: instead of Nate. And there's a sort of reference to
Speaker 1: gcs is, which are exams in English that we changed
Speaker 1: to sort of a reference to PBS. You know, there's
Speaker 1: things like that that kind of like small cultural things.
Speaker 1: But I think it's more surprising probably how little has
Speaker 1: to change than like what does have to change. I'm
Speaker 1: curious structurally because the show is structured where every queen
Speaker 1: gets her own song, her own sort of moment in
Speaker 1: the spatlight to rewrite her own history. And then you
Speaker 1: have one song where you discuss and explain hands Tolby
Speaker 1: and the painter going around and painting the princesses of
Speaker 1: Europe to present the portraits to Henry the What was
Speaker 1: the decision like to break form for I mean, that
Speaker 1: song is a blast, It's one of my favorite songs
Speaker 1: in the show. But what was the decision like to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to have these six songs and also the
Speaker 1: seventh star Because when we were originally planning it, like
Speaker 1: the first ideas from our first meeting was, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we should have like hands Hold and being a character
Speaker 1: and you can have his own like fashion house and
Speaker 1: he can be just like camp of german Man. Wouldn't
Speaker 1: that be so fun? Let's drop that down. And then
Speaker 1: when we were kind of like in the early stages
Speaker 1: of planning, they were going to be like transitional songs
Speaker 1: kind of in between their solos, kind of like you
Speaker 1: might have a pop concert where like there's like an
Speaker 1: outfit change or going from different sets or whatever, and
Speaker 1: there's like transitional moments and some more like group numbers
Speaker 1: and maybe like some multi rolling some other characters or
Speaker 1: maybe they're like backing vocalists who other various children and
Speaker 1: they have a number that like being kids. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but like we didn't write that one sounds so good.
Speaker 1: And then we kind of realized that in terms of
Speaker 1: like you know, the time of the show and what
Speaker 1: we had to do a couple of group numbers to
Speaker 1: bookend the show and then like each having a solo
Speaker 1: was kind of like what we've had time for. But
Speaker 1: then it was coming apparently in rehearsals that there was
Speaker 1: a gap, something extra was needed. Yeah, Well, we kind
Speaker 1: of always wanted there to be a group number in
Speaker 1: the middle, like after the three to sort of break
Speaker 1: up that like monotony of the of the structure. And
Speaker 1: we've also had this kind of like transitional song ideas
Speaker 1: whole mine that we've really held onto from the beginning.
Speaker 1: So whilst we sort of shared those transitional moments, we
Speaker 1: were like, oh, gold, we need to write a group number.
Speaker 1: Why don't we have it hands hold by one? And
Speaker 1: then oh, and then why don't we make it like
Speaker 1: a statement about like beauty standards and la la la
Speaker 1: okay that we'll do like bash it out right half
Speaker 1: an hour off for do this song and it's still
Speaker 1: in this our broadway with the rehearsals and just being
Speaker 1: like called like brands was like inches and kind of thing,
Speaker 1: and then now it's being performed and broad which is
Speaker 1: so hilarious. I love also the costume choices. I think
Speaker 1: the costumes are so distinct. They have not two period details,
Speaker 1: but they feel so modern. What was that conversation like
Speaker 1: developing the costumes, just super fun conversation with Gabby Slade
Speaker 1: are amazing designer, just about what the palette of pop
Speaker 1: star inspirations were going to be, but also like the
Speaker 1: ways in which we could get Tuda imagery into them,
Speaker 1: because I mean, the whole thing, as we said, it's
Speaker 1: like hybrid between like tudor history and like pop concert.
Speaker 1: One detail that stands out is that Jane Seymour her
Speaker 1: dress has sort of boning that looks like the famous
Speaker 1: Tutor half timber houses, like to the housing. I love that.
Speaker 1: That's my favorite thing as well. And like people don't
Speaker 1: you know, people don't pick up with as much, but
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed that. And also like the silhouettes of
Speaker 1: the portraits. The two queens got headed have these like chokers.
Speaker 1: There's all sort of like referencing things, but they all
Speaker 1: kind of inspired by they're not like models. Actually was
Speaker 1: interesting is early on we kind of like the initial
Speaker 1: designs felt more modeled off singular pop stars, and then
Speaker 1: it sort of felt a little bit like tribute active
Speaker 1: kind of vibes, and we're like, that's not like they
Speaker 1: aren't actually adele or whatever. They're kind of like a
Speaker 1: palette of them. So Gabby poned down to make them
Speaker 1: kind of like have elements of different pop star inspirations
Speaker 1: to kind of make them, you know, their own identity.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is true, but I read
Speaker 1: Toby that you filled in on the West End in
Speaker 1: the role of Catherine Parr Is that true? All the
Speaker 1: rooms are true? I did. Yeah. It was this time
Speaker 1: in the summer of twenty nine team where there was
Speaker 1: a lots of CARSS members were like injured and there
Speaker 1: was like illness going around even pre pandemic, you can
Speaker 1: you believe, And it was getting to this point like
Speaker 1: a few weeks before where it was like okay, gosh,
Speaker 1: like you know, it's not looking going so lucy, and
Speaker 1: the directing team came up with contingency plans of like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: like if this people that will do like a version
Speaker 1: of like at stools and we have music sound like
Speaker 1: this kind of staging if someone can't move their leg
Speaker 1: or just like all this stuff, and they're like the
Speaker 1: very bottom of this giant documents like and if if
Speaker 1: we really can't find anyone else to fill in and
Speaker 1: we can't do anything else, we'll see if Toby is
Speaker 1: free lull as it of ha ha ha, and they're
Speaker 1: like low in bold. A week later, I'm like chilling
Speaker 1: at home and I get a phone call from the
Speaker 1: stage manager being like are you free today? And I
Speaker 1: was like yeah, why. She was like could you come
Speaker 1: into the West End and play Katherine Park for two performances,
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, just casually on the last step,
Speaker 1: and I was like excited about the potential of it
Speaker 1: would be like a fun day, and then you put
Speaker 1: the phone down. I was like. And then like Lucy
Speaker 1: was like on a plane, I like lazy, and You're
Speaker 1: like I'm about to take off, but you know, just
Speaker 1: like I'm so stressed. What do I do? And she
Speaker 1: was like, I think the cast are going to be
Speaker 1: more stress that, like the writers coming into perform with them.
Speaker 1: So maybe like about you, you've been too generous to me.
Speaker 1: I think I just went, don't make it about you.
Speaker 1: I don't think I was being so diplomatic. Did you
Speaker 1: know the choreography? Well I knew parts of it, but
Speaker 1: luckily we did a concert performance, but you know, I
Speaker 1: do rocket, get down, dance break. We were like stood
Speaker 1: at in a row and also like Genesis, who's on
Speaker 1: the album, she filled in for Rondo of Cleaves and
Speaker 1: she was amazing. They put some like adapted band costumes
Speaker 1: and these like tight tight little leather short shorts and
Speaker 1: just like inappropriate for the first couple of rows. But yeah,
Speaker 1: but then we just like stood in a row and
Speaker 1: like I forgot all the words, So I'm going we
Speaker 1: have music stands. I was like in the know, when
Speaker 1: the lights are on you, it's quite difficult. Like these monologues,
Speaker 1: it's really totally hard to lab but I like, you know,
Speaker 1: change the move, but also may people laugh gently? How
Speaker 1: do I do that? That was like a standard comedian
Speaker 1: because shows really difficult. Wow, these writers really did about
Speaker 1: these writers like you know, like doing I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it was ultimately quite fun and it was What
Speaker 1: was really fun was that was a nice chance like
Speaker 1: hang out with the cast, a lot of whom had
Speaker 1: been in the show for ages and we hadn't seen
Speaker 1: for long times with like gallivanting rounds. Yeah, it's quite
Speaker 1: fun being part of the gang. One thing I also
Speaker 1: love about this show is you have an all female
Speaker 1: backup band, which I don't know if I've seen on
Speaker 1: Broadway before. Was that a decision you made from the start? Yeah,
Speaker 1: big time. As soon as we were able to have
Speaker 1: banned on stage when we first did the kind of
Speaker 1: like production of it that we wanted to do, it
Speaker 1: was like right at the forefront because you know, in
Speaker 1: the same way that at the time and was underrepresented
Speaker 1: on stage. Female musicians, especially was super underrepresented, so we
Speaker 1: were like, that's make them part the show, and yeah,
Speaker 1: put them on stage so that you can really see
Speaker 1: the like talent that's happening. These kind of like incredible
Speaker 1: musicians who are owning it, really rocking out as the
Speaker 1: Ladies in Waiting, as the show says, I'm curious, how
Speaker 1: do you think the show has either changed or been
Speaker 1: part of this conversation of how we teach and talk
Speaker 1: about history. It's a great question. It's hard for us,
Speaker 1: I think, to have a perspective on the outside impact
Speaker 1: of it, because I still i'm sort of like surprised
Speaker 1: when people are proud of it or like, so it's
Speaker 1: kind of hard to gauge. But I was actually my
Speaker 1: cousin's wedding over the summer, and one of her friends
Speaker 1: was like a teacher at a school in like Midlands
Speaker 1: and a history teacher, and the sort of like talking
Speaker 1: about how like it really got people kind of engaged
Speaker 1: with a particularly young people and young girls like engaged
Speaker 1: with history and like you know, like getting excited about
Speaker 1: these like narratives and stuff. I think in terms of
Speaker 1: feminist provisionist history, like ideas of like redressing historical and embalances.
Speaker 1: I think that those things can be quite like lofty
Speaker 1: and quite like the preserve of sort of like quote
Speaker 1: unquote like high art stuff. And actually, like I think
Speaker 1: that what maybe it's been kind of cool about six
Speaker 1: is that it's like brought it into this sort commercial
Speaker 1: space where people are going for a good time and
Speaker 1: then kind of like come away thinking about that stuff
Speaker 1: and it being presented in a way that's hardly difficult understand.
Speaker 1: That's like really like accessible and like makes sort of
Speaker 1: sense that you don't really have to like no worlds
Speaker 1: about history to engage with it. I guess, m Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's been like a few occasions where we've had foodback
Speaker 1: from like school trips that have come to say, especially
Speaker 1: early on, and when students have right after the show
Speaker 1: been like, oh, I want to like go home and
Speaker 1: like look up Catherine Park and look up like more
Speaker 1: information about like what happened to her and like what
Speaker 1: she did and what she achieved and all. When people
Speaker 1: have like you know, tagged us and like songs that
Speaker 1: they're writing about like other historical figures in the style
Speaker 1: of six, like six backing track and kind of like
Speaker 1: with this intention of being like you think you understand
Speaker 1: this thing from this way, but like, here's like another
Speaker 1: way of looking at it. And so I think any
Speaker 1: person that leaves the show with like spies like question
Speaker 1: things and question different perspective on things, in questions how
Speaker 1: different stories can be told and like and I hope
Speaker 1: you're telling them affects that I think it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: really cool. I'm nice. I love it. That's so well said.
Speaker 1: Quick question. Has there been any celebrity or like star
Speaker 1: come to the show or talk about the show that
Speaker 1: left you fully star struck? Well? What my one was
Speaker 1: when uh Aby Shallman, Paradina and Daniel Pardino, the creators
Speaker 1: of Gilman Girl's Misnagel to ski the show and I
Speaker 1: was sitting next to them and I was also in
Speaker 1: the very was she wearing a hat? That's of course
Speaker 1: she was wearing a hat present It wasn't the top hat,
Speaker 1: but it was a kind of like right peaked very
Speaker 1: things like I think it was velvet purple. I was like, yes,
Speaker 1: she was like sitting down and I had to get
Speaker 1: up to let let them all pass, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that is and I was so sat
Speaker 1: next to them to the whole show and obviously I
Speaker 1: was just like listening to that was pretty cool. And
Speaker 1: then I talked to them at the end and they've
Speaker 1: seen it already in London and they'd come back and
Speaker 1: they were also coming to the opening, but they decided
Speaker 1: to come to a previous it was riled. So that
Speaker 1: was cool, But you haven't similar experience actually, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was thinking that was wasn't a different It's like
Speaker 1: because the first one that came to mind was when
Speaker 1: I was actually like my cousin came to Disney in
Speaker 1: London and she was like, can we going six? I
Speaker 1: was like yeah, we like spent that day having like
Speaker 1: you know, like a boozy lunge and then were like
Speaker 1: went a long to go and see six, and then
Speaker 1: like walked into like I got our tickets, like walking
Speaker 1: like sat down like chicked that left for me. It's
Speaker 1: RuPaul like so bring up like, oh my god, and
Speaker 1: Rupa is six? What's going on? And then like and
Speaker 1: that was really wild. Does he seem to have a
Speaker 1: good time? I think so yeah, like to picture on
Speaker 1: stage at the end and right, yeah, really really sweet.
Speaker 1: But yeah, what was really cool was when Tim Minchin
Speaker 1: went to go to see it in Australia because he
Speaker 1: is like like the biggest or like one of our
Speaker 1: biggest like writing influences, especially in terms of like song
Speaker 1: structure and like comedy and music. He's so so so
Speaker 1: influential on our writing process and truly truly obsessed with him.
Speaker 1: And then when we found out that he went to
Speaker 1: go see it in Australia, it was like really like
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, my gosh. And he sent us this
Speaker 1: email afterwards that was the loveliest thing that I've ever
Speaker 1: read in my life, really like complimenting like writing. And
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, what exists wasn't for you?
Speaker 1: And so that that was that was like that was cool.
Speaker 1: It was like someone really yeah, like yeah, it's really special.
Speaker 1: So for people who go to see the show, what's
Speaker 1: the feeling that you hope they come away with? M H.
Speaker 1: I feel like the ultimate one is being like uplifted
Speaker 1: and like I suppose like empowered as well a kind
Speaker 1: of some of the leading ones, because obviously it's like
Speaker 1: a lot of the story is actually kind of like
Speaker 1: heavy in the actual like what happened whatever, it's as
Speaker 1: less of being like oh I want people to be
Speaker 1: like oh wow, it musk and read loads about these
Speaker 1: even though you know that would be great as well,
Speaker 1: it's more about being like them, sort of seeing the
Speaker 1: characters realized this kind of date of like impoundment and
Speaker 1: kind of taking back control there and definitely been kind
Speaker 1: of written out. So people feeling like uplifted and like
Speaker 1: positive about smashing with patriarchy, Yeah, I'd say, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like uplifted and that they've had like a really like
Speaker 1: from time. Um, you know, it's specially now more than ever.
Speaker 1: But also I think a few times where we've had
Speaker 1: feedback from people have come and that have said that
Speaker 1: they felt seen on stage, and I think that's really
Speaker 1: my cold, cold hot that's wonderful. Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: so so much for taking the time out. I am
Speaker 1: such a huge fan. Toby Marlowe and Lucy Moss, the
Speaker 1: co writers and creators of Six the Musical now on Broadway.
Speaker 1: But there's an album that you can stream no matter
Speaker 1: where in the world you are. Thank you, so so much,
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. Noble Blood is a production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Mankey.
Speaker 1: The show was written and hosted by Dana Schwartz, Executive
Speaker 1: producers include Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams, and Matt Frederick. The
Speaker 1: show is produced by rema Ill Kali and Trevor Young.
Speaker 1: Noble Blood is on social media at Noble Blood Tales,
Speaker 1: and you can learn more about the show over at
Speaker 1: Noble Blood Tales dot com. For more podcasts from I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. M