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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight an iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Tuesday, February twenty fourth, and

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Speaker 2: we have a stacked night of headlines. Savannah Guthrie is

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Speaker 2: making an extremely emotional plea basically upping the ante to

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Speaker 2: one million dollars for her mother, for her mother's return,

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Speaker 2: and you know, the sentiment has shifted a little bit.

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Speaker 2: It's almost like dead or alive. Please, we just need answers. Also,

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Speaker 2: the ex American Idol contestant who allegedly has murdered his wife.

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Speaker 3: It's being said that.

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Speaker 2: He also like staged the whole crime scene and covered

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Speaker 2: the whole thing up and what an absolute mess us. Also,

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Speaker 2: we have an update on the tragic case for Annaner.

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Speaker 2: Remember Anna Kepner, eighteen years old, was our cruise with

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Speaker 2: her family. Yeah, there's some significant updates there as well. Plus,

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Speaker 2: we have forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan, host of the

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Speaker 2: hit podcast body Bags with us. He's breaking down all

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Speaker 2: the forensics. He's been working on one particular case though,

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Speaker 2: which sounds extremely complicated and juicy and important, So he's

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Speaker 2: going to be unpacking that. And if you have any

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Speaker 2: questions eight eight eight three one crime, please we want

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Speaker 2: to hear them, or you could always leave us a

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Speaker 2: talk back, which you guys have been doing so great.

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Speaker 2: I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I'm here with Courtney Armstrong and

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Speaker 2: body move in.

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Speaker 3: Hi, ladies, fired up tonight? Hello?

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Speaker 4: Hello?

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes today. Yeah. So we're feeling. I'm feeling.

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Speaker 3: I've got energy, I've got the vibe. I'm ready. I'm excited.

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Speaker 3: How about you, Corey? Are you ready?

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Speaker 2: All in?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Ready, all in? I mean, listen, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: going on in the world right now.

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Speaker 2: Even as we speak, the President of the United States,

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Speaker 2: our president is speaking publicly. Is it said to be

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Speaker 2: as we speak, Yeah, it's said to be the longest

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Speaker 2: speech in presidential history, so likely for the entire time

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Speaker 2: that we're on air, So we're missing it.

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Speaker 3: So feel free to call us and give us what's

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Speaker 3: going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we want all of the details because look, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot happening in the world. We're going to take

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Speaker 2: a break from all things sex crimes for the evening

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Speaker 2: as we gather ourselves over all things Epstein, I'm really

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Speaker 2: knee deep down this scio.

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Speaker 3: Oh are you do? You guys know what that is?

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm s do you want to do it?

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Speaker 3: It's like psychological warfare. It's psychology. It's like a psychological operation.

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Speaker 3: It's not only used by the government, it's used by companies,

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Speaker 3: it's used by everyone. It's a psychological operation, and it's

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Speaker 3: meant to like influence your feelings about something, like even

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Speaker 3: influencers like people who are like, oh, buy this macaroni

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Speaker 3: and cheese. It's the best ever. That's a syop. But

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Speaker 3: like on a deeper level, you know, the government just

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Speaker 3: like as Stephanie was kind of saying, does syops too,

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Speaker 3: Like you know, like when they drop pamphlets in war

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Speaker 3: and it's like your country sucks, this is how you surrender,

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Speaker 3: you know, Well, that's a syop. Cointell pro in all

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Speaker 3: the stuff with the civil rights movement and whatnot, that

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Speaker 3: was a syop. Syps are super fascinating to me, I

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Speaker 3: would be meaning.

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Speaker 2: So it's and again like I want to do a

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Speaker 2: deeper dive on it. I'm just learning about it, so

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Speaker 2: I'm new to it. So I would like to do

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Speaker 2: a follow up on this though. Is it basically so

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Speaker 2: people are in a room let's just call it the

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Speaker 2: government for the sake of this conversation. People are sitting

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Speaker 2: around a table thinking of a big idea to create

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Speaker 2: confusion and make people feel a certain way. And when

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Speaker 2: you're deep in your feeling, you can be easily manipulated

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Speaker 2: at that point. You know, the key to success really

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Speaker 2: is certainly in difficult times.

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Speaker 3: So I'm told I've learned this.

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Speaker 2: This is not me joling at advice is really to

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Speaker 2: stay in the most indifferent, you know, a place of

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Speaker 2: indifference and not let your feelings take the wheel, because

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Speaker 2: when we have our feelings on, we really can get distracted.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, that's I guess what a syop is. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know that happened.

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Speaker 3: Yo, Yeah, like all the Twitter bots, that's all syop.

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Speaker 3: You know. It's But I don't think there's like a

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Speaker 3: group of people sitting in a room. I think they

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Speaker 3: kind of happen organically, like it just steam rolls like, well, well,

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Speaker 3: well we'll do this and see how people feel, and

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Speaker 3: then it just one thing after another.

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Speaker 5: Right, would that be like the alleged Russia influencing the election?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, okay in twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Yep, I mean some would say Kim Kardashian would say

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Speaker 2: it would be walking on the moon that count.

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Speaker 3: Listen, No, believable. I believe we landed on the moon.

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Speaker 3: I don't believe that was a syup. I believe we

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Speaker 3: really landed.

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Speaker 5: On the moon.

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Speaker 3: Listen, I'm just saying I will not ship for any

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Speaker 3: NASA slander. Okay, you're I'm here, But no, I mean,

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Speaker 3: some people probably would say that was a sy up

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Speaker 3: because you know, there was at the height of the

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Speaker 3: Cold War, you know, and and it makes us American

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Speaker 3: pride and whatnot against Russia. We were in this space race, right,

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Speaker 3: they launched the satellite first, they got all that first,

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Speaker 3: we had to have a first and guess what it

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Speaker 3: was the moon? Right, So a lot of people do

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Speaker 3: believe legitimately that we never landed on the moon. I

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Speaker 3: happened to believe we did land on the moon.

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Speaker 2: Wow, it's amazing to me. But feel like we're getting

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Speaker 2: we're getting given so much information right now that's so

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Speaker 2: intense that I don't know what to what to believe,

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Speaker 2: what not to believe, and where to put any of it. So,

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Speaker 2: but we're working on it behind the scenes. Rest assured,

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Speaker 2: and in the meantime, the Guthrie family still does not

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Speaker 2: have answers. How is that humanly possible? Your hearts are

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Speaker 2: so with them. And you know, now Savannah is saying

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Speaker 2: and essentially begging, basically saying she believes that there could

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Speaker 2: still be a miracle. And I'm going to double down

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Speaker 2: on that too, And I'm going to back Savannah in

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Speaker 2: this one and pray for a miracle here, a million

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Speaker 2: dollar miracle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, after more than three weeks, right, missing her, Nancy's

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Speaker 3: family has offered a one million dollar reward. And you know,

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Speaker 3: Savannah made this emotional video. She's the mother of Nancy Guthrie,

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Speaker 3: and of course she's the Today Show co host, right,

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Speaker 3: and she was last seen entering her Tucson, Arizona home

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Speaker 3: on January thirty. First, it is now March, or I'm

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Speaker 3: sorry March. It is now February twenty. It's been three

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Speaker 3: weeks plus some right, Wow, she has been you know,

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Speaker 3: it's believed that she was taken against her will, obviously, right,

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Speaker 3: investigators are reviewing this mixed DNA that they found. All

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Speaker 3: the suspect footage and ransom notes is part of this

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Speaker 3: ongoing criminal investigation, and let's go to talk about I

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Speaker 3: understand we have one right now.

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Speaker 4: Hey, this is Stee from Vegas. I was wondering if

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Speaker 4: the DNA from the Nancy Guthrie case, even though it's

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Speaker 4: been run through CODIS, if it couldn't be compared to

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Speaker 4: other national DNA databases like twenty three and meters and

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Speaker 4: other sources, just to see if there's a match somewhere.

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Speaker 3: Thanks, great question a lot of people. Such a good question. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's a really good question. Let's give him some merch. Y,

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Speaker 3: let's give him some merch right around the corner.

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Speaker 2: You can hand deliver it. Yeah, that's so exciting. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's a great question though.

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Speaker 3: It's a really good question. So my understanding is that

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Speaker 3: there's only a couple of those, like public facing DNA

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Speaker 3: houses that will hand over DNA without a warrant. Okay,

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Speaker 3: but like twenty three and me and Ancestry like the

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Speaker 3: big ones. I believe you. I believe you need a

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Speaker 3: warrant number one and number two. I believe you have

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Speaker 3: to have a specific target, like you can't just say

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Speaker 3: give me your database or run this through your database.

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Speaker 2: You have to have like a specific you do and

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Speaker 2: like if you're going to go for like a very

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Speaker 2: big case. Sure, and in theory there's privacy attached to that,

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Speaker 2: but it is third party privacy, right, So I don't

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Speaker 2: think the initial sign up is what you're really signed for.

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Speaker 3: There was an issue with jed match. Do you guys

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Speaker 3: know jed Match? You can't. There was jed match is

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Speaker 3: also like a public facing DNA you can like upload

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Speaker 3: your DNA to it and whatnot. My understanding with this

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Speaker 3: is that they have a public facing portal and a

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Speaker 3: police portal, and for a long time they were allowing

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Speaker 3: the police just to kind of query things willy nilly.

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Speaker 3: They closed that loophole a couple maybe like two years ago.

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Speaker 3: I'd have to I'd have to research, like you know,

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Speaker 3: to be one hundred percent sure. But I want to say,

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Speaker 3: and somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, I want

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Speaker 3: to say they closed that loophole pretty recently where the

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Speaker 3: police were just able to willy nilly get whatever they wanted.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and look, and that's the that's the debate

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Speaker 2: around this conversation.

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Speaker 3: If you're not familiar with it.

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Speaker 2: As evidence and forensics are being uh you know, taken

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Speaker 2: from a crime scene and investigated and put through labs.

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Speaker 2: You know, the question does become about privacy and when

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Speaker 2: is it too much? I mean, we all started our

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Speaker 2: Facebook so we can stay connected to our buddies from

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Speaker 2: high school.

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Speaker 3: Right, that was the pitch, and we were open with

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Speaker 3: it to remember.

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Speaker 2: What the Oh my goodness, I love the new baby.

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Speaker 3: Look at that house. It looks adorable.

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Speaker 2: I ate it up right, so and and as as

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Speaker 2: so many you know, buyer beware. I feel like somewhere

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Speaker 2: deep inside we kind of knew it now, we kind

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Speaker 2: of know that they were lying to us the entire

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Speaker 2: time as well about the implications. And here we are

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Speaker 2: twenty three and meters. For example, some of these DNA testing.

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Speaker 2: We all want to find out if we, you know,

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Speaker 2: have a little Native American blood in us, so we

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Speaker 2: can be able to tell our future spouse, you know,

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Speaker 2: what kind of children who knows all the things. And again,

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Speaker 2: now on its nose, that seems like the greatest gift

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Speaker 2: you can give a family member. And now it's you know,

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Speaker 2: a little bit messy. On the one hand, yes, you

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Speaker 2: have nothing to be hiding. So of course your DNA

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Speaker 2: should be in a database. No big deal until we

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Speaker 2: get into this world of ani and all the things.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like, right now I'm having a hard

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Speaker 2: time with face value. And I'm a real face value

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Speaker 2: person period.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I know that, I know. I For Christmas,

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Speaker 3: my mom got me a ancestry and it had like

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Speaker 3: learn your ancestry and all your traits. And I learned,

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Speaker 3: like you know, I have an aversion to the sun,

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Speaker 3: like I didn't already know that, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 3: like this because it looks at your genes. I learned

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Speaker 3: that I'm not allergic to cilantro those kinds of things,

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Speaker 3: like you know. And it was interesting but and I

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Speaker 3: don't regret doing it, but I do kind of wonder like, ooh, well,

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Speaker 3: we just don't.

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Speaker 2: Know what we don't know. So of course it's fine.

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Speaker 2: We're not looking. I am not looking to suggest that

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Speaker 2: anybody who has gotten their DNA tested for you know,

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Speaker 2: genetic reasons or to find out your ancestry. Of course,

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Speaker 2: it's fine. But that's just the stage for which this

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Speaker 2: conversation happens, because it does become a privacy thing, and

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Speaker 2: at what point is the overreach too much of a reach?

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Speaker 2: Next thing, you know, you know, somebody in a mask

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Speaker 2: is banging on your door in an ice outfit and

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Speaker 2: dragging you outside, So like, what is the And I

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Speaker 2: think the larger fear is that they're always talking about

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Speaker 2: this cage, the digital cage. I keep everything about my

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Speaker 2: feed right now is about a digital cage.

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Speaker 3: Have you guys heard anything about this?

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Speaker 2: No? No, We'll get to that in segment six. Okay,

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Speaker 2: let's say that because what that is?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 3: Do you know what a digital cage is?

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Speaker 6: Uh? You know what?

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Speaker 3: You'll have to explain it to me in a segment.

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Speaker 3: So am I the only one? You You're the one

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Speaker 3: that has the crazy algorithm information?

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Okay, well more on that to come.

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Speaker 2: Butt's find ourselves something.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, So Savannah, she said that, you know, they

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Speaker 3: wanted the family wanted to announce this million dollar reward

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Speaker 3: from the start. And we had discussed this previously on

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Speaker 3: the show on why that's discouraged by law enforcement because

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Speaker 3: you know, it really makes the tip lines kind of

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Speaker 3: go crazy with false leads and whatnot. Right. A source

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Speaker 3: close to the family told People Magazine that the family

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Speaker 3: first raised this on day one of the investigation and

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Speaker 3: has been ready to do it, you know, ever since,

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Speaker 3: and they were advised by all involved that doing so

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Speaker 3: might overwhelm the infant structure set up to do. You know,

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Speaker 3: these leads just kind of like how we talked about

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Speaker 3: on the show. People further learned that Savannah used this

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Speaker 3: language up to one million, because if there's more than

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Speaker 3: one valid claim, the reward can be split, which is interesting.

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Speaker 3: The reward isn't contingent on arrest. Normally the award is

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Speaker 3: you know, the arrest and conviction of somebody. But really

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Speaker 3: I just think they want their mom, right, yeah, Or

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Speaker 3: you have to imagine.

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Speaker 2: One thing we've always heard from anybody who's missing a

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Speaker 2: family member is there is no finality there, so you

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Speaker 2: can never eat a meal, go to sleep, have a shower,

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Speaker 2: do any of your basic life things if you're not

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Speaker 2: looking right.

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Speaker 3: So they just need an answer, right, she said, it

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Speaker 3: is day It is day twenty four since our mom

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Speaker 3: was taken in the dark of night from her bed,

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Speaker 3: and every hour and minute, second and every long night

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Speaker 3: has been agony since then. She may be lost, she

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Speaker 3: may already be gone. If this is what is to be,

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Speaker 3: then we will accept it, but we need to know

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Speaker 3: where she is. We need her to come home. So sad,

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Speaker 3: I cannot.

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Speaker 5: Imagine absolutely, I mean your entire everyone's life on pause.

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Speaker 5: And then I believe it was today that authorities talked

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Speaker 5: about potential disparities between the photos or video of the

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Speaker 5: guy at the front door.

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Speaker 3: Oh did they I miss that? Yeah, there's two different photos.

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Speaker 3: We talked about it last night, but we talked a

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Speaker 3: little bit about it last night.

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Speaker 2: Basically there's two different images of allegedly the same man

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Speaker 2: or the same person who's wearing the mask obviously at

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Speaker 2: the door. We saw that footage released initially from Nancy

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Speaker 2: Guthrie's home. It was the nest footage. Although she didn't

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Speaker 2: have her ring subscription, they were somehow still able to

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Speaker 2: collect this data and they, according to Cash Patel, the

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Speaker 2: FBI director, according to him, these are very incredibly clear images,

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Speaker 2: but there's not an exact time stamp.

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Speaker 3: But according to him, they're on different days, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The Pima County Sheriff's office said that there is no

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Speaker 3: time stamps in any claim that these were taken on

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Speaker 3: two different nights as speculative. But Brian Enton, who we

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Speaker 3: love and Adore, the journalist. The journalist for News Nation

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Speaker 3: and Fox News also reported on this too, stands by

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Speaker 3: his statement that they were taken on two different nights. Well.

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Speaker 5: As always, we will keep you up to date on

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Speaker 5: the search and stick around because when you come back.

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Speaker 5: Colin Gray is on trial for his son, Colt Gray's

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Speaker 5: deadly school shooting, and it was an explosive day in

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Speaker 5: court today. Later, forensic expert Joseph Scott Morgan joins us

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Speaker 5: to unpack a bunch of cases True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight, an iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Laidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and body Move in and listen if you

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Speaker 2: want to join us live eight eight eight three one Crime.

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Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan, host of the hit podcast body Bags,

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Speaker 2: is with us this evening.

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Speaker 3: Let's go to a talkback.

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Speaker 7: Hi guys, Lindsay from Ontario, Canada here listening to you

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Speaker 7: guys talk about the Colt Gray case. And I'm confused.

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Speaker 7: Is it legal to buy your child a gun? They're

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Speaker 7: under the legal age to own a gun because we

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Speaker 7: can't buy alcohol for underagers, so why can we buy

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Speaker 7: a gun and give it them. I don't get the

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Speaker 7: gun thing.

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Speaker 3: Call me Canadian, You're not the only one. I don't

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Speaker 3: get it either, I truly don't do we know, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I don't either.

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Speaker 5: So it is illegal to purchase a gun if you're

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Speaker 5: under twenty one years old?

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Speaker 3: Is my understanding or different?

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Speaker 2: Some of them are under eighteen, but there they can

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Speaker 2: make him very guilty. And by the way, this case,

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Speaker 2: we were talking about it today and it is it

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Speaker 2: is so terrible on every level. And I hate to

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Speaker 2: even use that word because it's such an understatement. But again,

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Speaker 2: everything could have gone wrong, went wrong. Mom and dad

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Speaker 2: not together, Just assume both maybe they're not on the

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Speaker 2: same page, and they are both loving parents. Let's assume

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Speaker 2: that who want the best for their kids. But you know, Mom,

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Speaker 2: right before the murders had reached out saying she had

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Speaker 2: concerns about him having access to a gun, and reached

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Speaker 2: out to dad to say, please help with the gun,

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Speaker 2: and still the gun persisted. So well, it's a tough one.

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Speaker 3: And I think, I mean, obviously the gun was likely

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Speaker 3: in the dad's name and just was you know, like

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Speaker 3: in his possession, you know, kind of like this is

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Speaker 3: my gun, but it's not really legally his gun, right,

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Speaker 3: So I mean, I'm sure it's something like that, but

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Speaker 3: as far as I know.

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Speaker 5: I mean looking in Georgia, yeah, it would be generally

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Speaker 5: unlawful to provide it.

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Speaker 2: So then he's guilty as charge if that's you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what the whoop of that is.

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Speaker 2: You can't just give your kid a car and ask

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Speaker 2: them to drive it. You don't just you know, throw

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Speaker 2: the keys and toss them the Jack Daniels and hope

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Speaker 2: for the best.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's that's a very dangerous situation. Now, It's

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Speaker 3: like buying a car for an underage kid and not

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Speaker 3: putting it in their name, right, but letting them drive it.

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Speaker 2: But letting them drive it, and then them mulling somebody

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Speaker 2: down or multiple people down for them matter. We lost

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Speaker 2: four lives because of this tragedy. And look on Dad's

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Speaker 2: in Dad's defense, you know, Mom and Dad probably were

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Speaker 2: having some tough times. Anybody who's co parenting knows it's

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Speaker 2: not always easy. And you know, Dad said publicly that

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Speaker 2: he had this kind of bonding experience with his you

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Speaker 2: know what we now know to be a very uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: and ill young man and they went like shooting gun shooting,

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Speaker 2: and it was like a bonding experience. So maybe to

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Speaker 2: keep that bond going, Dad thought it was a good

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Speaker 2: idea to get you know, cult this you know rifle

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Speaker 2: to you know, essentially murder. And you know again at

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Speaker 2: the other side to that is what planet is that

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Speaker 2: on and that you're getting an AR fifteen for your

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Speaker 2: underaged child.

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Speaker 3: Mental issues.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is a child that has been with

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Speaker 2: two Yeah, so it has been begging for help.

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Speaker 5: If people don't know what case we're talking about this isle.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So in twenty twenty four, there was a mass shooting

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Speaker 5: at Appalachia High School High school in Georgia. Four people

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Speaker 5: were dead, nine others were injured. So the accused is

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Speaker 5: Colt Gray, again fourteen at the time. Now his father,

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Speaker 5: Colin Gray, he's on trial today. Today was actually the

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Speaker 5: seventh day of his trial and he is not in

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Speaker 5: fact or it might be a lesser account of providing

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Speaker 5: a gun. But what he's on trial for is twenty

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Speaker 5: nine charges, including two counts of second degree murder and

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Speaker 5: two counts of involuntary manslaughter.

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Speaker 3: So that's what he is on trial for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that would make his son less guilty on that

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Speaker 2: regard because again, the son had mental illness, was looking

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Speaker 2: for help, was asking actively for help. He is starting

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Speaker 2: a new school. We did this timeline. We're talking day

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Speaker 2: one of the first day of a new school in

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Speaker 2: ninth grade. There was already an issue. You know, this

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Speaker 2: all was going down minute to minute. Remember, they got

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Speaker 2: the wrong kid out of the class. My mom called

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Speaker 2: and said, I feel worried my son has access to

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Speaker 2: a gun. And then they tried to get the kid

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Speaker 2: and they got the wrong kid. Every possible frantic scenario

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Speaker 2: that we all have to offer some grace for for

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Speaker 2: everybody who you know, probably practiced all the rehearsals for

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Speaker 2: this and all of the what is the fire drills,

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Speaker 2: of course, the active shooter drills. But again, until it's

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Speaker 2: the real thing. And can you imagine this mom who

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Speaker 2: was calling and asking and begging for help, and now

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Speaker 2: this is what it led to. She loses her son

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Speaker 2: to you know, likely some level of prison for a

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Speaker 2: very long time. I would assume if what he's being

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Speaker 2: accused of, if he's found guilty of, dad could be

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Speaker 2: a prison for life.

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Speaker 5: And the family's very complicated. They actually several members took

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Speaker 5: the stand if you guys want to hear a little

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Speaker 5: bit about what's been happening at trial. So again we're

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Speaker 5: now on day seven of the trial, but back at

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Speaker 5: day five, the alleged shooter's grandmother testified about his home life,

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Speaker 5: and she described it as chaotic and he moved between

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Speaker 5: North and South Georgia. And also, the alleged shooter he

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Speaker 5: his mother and father were separate or divorced. It's a

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Speaker 5: little sketchy, and he primarily lived with his father, the

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Speaker 5: man who's now on trial. His grandmother also described angry

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Speaker 5: texts that her grandson center and then he later apologized

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Speaker 5: and described He described his mental state as quote schizophrenia

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Speaker 5: leaning towards acute mania, and he noted that periods of

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Speaker 5: heightened impulses could last even days to weeks. The kid

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Speaker 5: said this, the kids said this to his grandmother per

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Speaker 5: her testimony, The accused shooter cult Gray also texted to

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Speaker 5: his grandmother if I do something terrible, would you still

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Speaker 5: love me? Which A is heartbreaking and B prompted the

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Speaker 5: grandmother to contact a crisis counselor as well as his

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Speaker 5: school counselor out of concern for his safety, which is the.

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Speaker 3: Approaching grands do.

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Speaker 2: Grandma has little cults or little grandson, and he's confessing

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Speaker 2: to her that he's going to be having bad thoughts,

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Speaker 2: and she does everything correctly. Grandma gets on the phone,

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Speaker 2: sounds the.

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Speaker 5: Alarms, right, and then here's where the dynamics get tricky again.

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Speaker 5: The parents of the shooters are separated, and they've both

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Speaker 5: been having trouble sort of in and out of the law,

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Speaker 5: and there's financial difficulties and there's some drug abuse as well,

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Speaker 5: including the fact that the alleged shooter's mother, Marcy gray A,

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Speaker 5: she actually taped this grandmother, the one who's testimony we

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Speaker 5: were just talking about, taped her to a chair for

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Speaker 5: more than twenty four hours.

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Speaker 3: That's correct. Oh my what? Okay, Yeah, that's the grandmother.

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Speaker 3: That's correct. Okay, okay, yep.

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Speaker 5: And also alleged shooter's mom, who again is the ex

436
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 5: husband of the dad who was on trial. She was

437
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 5: supposed to be in court on Friday, but didn't get

438
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:01,679
Speaker 5: to court on time.

439
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 2: I mean, that's not a show up on time. Lucky

440
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,159
Speaker 2: for her, though the juror wasn't there. The jury wasn't there, thankfully.

441
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: Can you imagine it's day one and mom is late

442
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 2: for trial in front of the jury.

443
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 3: That's right, And so that didn't happen.

444
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 5: Exactly because that would have been pretty prejudicial. I mean,

445
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 5: I had my own thoughts about them. That So, but

446
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 5: when his mother, when the alleged shooter's mother slash the

447
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 5: father's ex husband did testify. What she said was that

448
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 5: back in twenty twenty one, So this is three years

449
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 5: before at the shooting. While he was attending school remotely

450
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 5: the alleged shooter, he got around the school's firewall and

451
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 5: searched online how to kill my dad?

452
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 3: What this?

453
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 5: Yes, that's right, and this prompted school officials to alert

454
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 5: her and send deputies to the home. Also in the testimony,

455
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 5: she told jurors that the defendant argued just days before

456
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 5: the shooting about guns storage. Excuse me, she argued with

457
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 5: her ex husband, the one on trial, and asked if

458
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 5: the guns were locked up, and he said no, they're not,

459
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 5: and he's you know, he said, oh, if I lock

460
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 5: up the gun, it would cause.

461
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 3: And fill in the blank storm.

462
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 5: So Dad was not you know, he knew mom was upset,

463
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 5: but was saying he didn't want to lock it up.

464
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 3: He didn't want the chaos that would ensue if he

465
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,640
Speaker 3: locked up the gun because his has like a manic issue.

466
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: According to Cole, the doctor himself was diagnosing himself with schizophrenia.

467
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:44,640
Speaker 3: I think he was given that diagnosis.

468
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: And if I'm not mistaken, they were trying to get

469
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 2: some care and it was very difficult to get any

470
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 2: mental health care as well.

471
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 5: Okay, Well, his mother and her testimony, Stephanie, she did

472
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 5: recount a bunch of escalating aggression and mental health Shrugger struggles.

473
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 5: Alleged Shutor was breaking windows, damaging property, being violent, having

474
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,880
Speaker 5: panic attacks, and she said that she tried to get

475
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 5: him into an inpatient inpatient treatment just one month before

476
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 5: the shootings. But her testimony, she said that the dad

477
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 5: on trial, he kind of dropped the ball and oh

478
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 5: it didn't make that happen. That's what her testimony says.

479
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,479
Speaker 5: She said, so he didn't follow up from it or whatever.

480
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 3: That's correct.

481
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 5: And keep in mind that with the split custody, I

482
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 5: don't know all the laws in Georgia obviously, but Colt Gray,

483
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 5: the fourteen year old, was in his father's primary residence,

484
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 5: so he.

485
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,959
Speaker 3: Was like the primary caregiver, the custodian.

486
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 5: I don't even know that for sure, but I know

487
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 5: that the mother said that, I said he should go.

488
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 5: I tried to make it happen, and the dad didn't

489
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 5: follow through.

490
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 3: So that's what I lived. And that's you know, she's

491
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 3: under she's under oath, So that's also under a lot

492
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 3: of stress. Can you imagine your.

493
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 2: Ex husband is the life of four people and you've

494
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 2: been trying to intervene, and this is your son who's

495
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 2: now also his life is ruined.

496
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 3: Your ex husband's life is ruined, these poor fans, and

497
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 3: you tied up this grandmother to a chirit. She she's

498
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 3: not all there either.

499
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 2: No, she didn't have custody of her daughter. So there's

500
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,679
Speaker 2: you know, there's there's parks on all houses potentially, or

501
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: grace in old houses because everyone's just trying their best.

502
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 3: You know, life is hard. People have it hard.

503
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,120
Speaker 2: Right now, and you know, it's just it's a it's

504
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: important that we talk about it as a wake up

505
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: call because it is real easy to get into the routine.

506
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 3: Or if you're feuding with.

507
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: Your partner and you're going through it, I mean, raise

508
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 2: your hand if you haven't been there, right so, but

509
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: you got to stop, and you know, get yourself centered,

510
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 2: and you know these are the runaway trains that are

511
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 2: frankly deadly.

512
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 3: You know, it's very easy to.

513
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: Explain away, Oh my teenagers just a little sad, or

514
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: they're depressed, or you know, they're bouncing between homes with

515
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,679
Speaker 2: the strange parents, or you know, this one's an addict,

516
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 2: this one's a this. Yeah, and then look, you know

517
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 2: who's paying the price for this is the many families

518
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: now who don't have their loved ones.

519
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:21,680
Speaker 3: That's right.

520
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 5: Well, today's testimony was from the so again dad's on trial.

521
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 3: It was his daughter who is the accused shooter sister,

522
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 3: of course, and she's.

523
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 5: A younger sister. Yes, so Coult, the accused shooter. He

524
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 5: was living with dad. Colt's younger two siblings were with mom. Okay,

525
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 5: it's my understanding of the situation. I don't know how

526
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 5: it got there, but that's my understanding.

527
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: Okay.

528
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 2: And keep in mind, if Colt does have like he's

529
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 2: been diagnosed with these disorders and there's mental illnesses, it's

530
00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: very serious and that requires care from all fronts, and

531
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 2: it's very intense for a caregiver.

532
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: Also.

533
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure, I'm sure they had a full their

534
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: hands are full.

535
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 3: Sorry, go ahead, yeah, no, it's absolutely well.

536
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 5: This testimony, which we don't have a direct knowledge, but

537
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 5: people said that the defense seemed caught off guard by it.

538
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 5: So what this daughter testified was that during her interview,

539
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 5: her forensic interview the day after the shooting, her father

540
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 5: pressured her to cover for him. So Dad is like, listen,

541
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 5: cover for him and her that you know, asked. The

542
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 5: daughter went on to say that she falsely stated that

543
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 5: her dad did not know about her brother's fascination with

544
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 5: Parkland shooter Nicholas Cruz, or that he had a shrine

545
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 5: to a school shooter in his bedroom.

546
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 3: So dad on trial said, hey, lie about me. And really,

547
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 3: so is she saying that he did know? Is she

548
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: saying he did know about this shrine and who this

549
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 3: shrine was too? And she still bought my brother a gun? Yes?

550
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 3: And no no he's still yes.

551
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, she sister is saying, my older brother was obsessed

552
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 2: with a school shooter and my dad, who's on trial,

553
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: knew about it. I knew there was a shrine and

554
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: told me to lie about it right to on the

555
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 2: stand under oath or this was forensic This was the

556
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 2: day after the shooting. Think about it like, still you're

557
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: getting you're gonna lie to police, you know, her account

558
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: of what happens.

559
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,640
Speaker 3: M So the defense was really taken them back by that.

560
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 3: They didn't know that she was going to.

561
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,959
Speaker 5: Say that that's that's the feeling. Yeah, And the defense

562
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 5: did challenge the testimony's admissibility, but the judge allowed it

563
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 5: to be presented to a jury. And then she also

564
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 5: said that dad just wanted to downplay any problems that

565
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 5: her brother had altogether, so he was asking a child

566
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 5: to and Stephanie to your point, I'll wrap this up.

567
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 5: We're running out of time. But the dad also said

568
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 5: in interviews that were played in the courtroom that he

569
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 5: did indeed give the AR fifteen as a Christmas gift

570
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 5: because he thought his son had turned a corner and

571
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 5: maybe hunting would be positive.

572
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 3: He said that, I mean, just with AR fifteens, I

573
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 3: can't imagine. No.

574
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 5: So this is one we obviously will keep abreast of

575
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 5: as a fascinating case.

576
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 3: Yeah.

577
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: And the host of the hit podcast body Bags, Joseph

578
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 2: Scott Morgan, is here.

579
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 3: How annoying is it that we don't make bodybags? Can we?

580
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 7: Just?

581
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 3: I'm meaningless?

582
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: We met at the same time Joseph Scott Morgan and

583
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: I met when we both started and I were just

584
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: starting piked in right and like you had just started

585
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 2: your podcast body Bags. Nick brushes me that we don't

586
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: get to do it together, but it's so good.

587
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 3: I met Joseph at Crime cong I was doing the

588
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:11,640
Speaker 3: Clue Awards. I was. I gave the award with Gil

589
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 3: Coreo the Nightstalker Protective Bige at the end, and I

590
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 3: remember I saw Joseph and I'm like, he stole the

591
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: idea of body bags for me. I was going to

592
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: make bags the purses and call him body bags. I

593
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 3: swore to go, oh my, isn't that so smart? But

594
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: I do think he should give it to you. Can

595
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 3: we make that happen right now?

596
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 2: I am a registered reverend? Does that count?

597
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 3: Can I? I don't know? That's the guy that stole.

598
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: Kim will be fine, Kim, come, we're going to officiate together.

599
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 6: The first time Stei and Iver spoke was in a

600
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 6: car freezing. She was in California and I was in Alabama,

601
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 6: and we had a two hour conversation.

602
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 2: I was it was meant to be ten seconds, it

603
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 2: was going to be a ten in a conversation to

604
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: book time through and we got through Nancy Grace for

605
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 2: a different call.

606
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 3: Right, this is the Joseph Scott Morgan. We all know

607
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 3: one love and hand hand to God.

608
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 5: After that conversation, Stephanie called me and said, I just

609
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 5: met the most interesting man alive.

610
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 3: Oh, Gospel, Gospel, it is the truth. Joseph Scott Morgan.

611
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 2: He's the most interesting man he is, and he talks

612
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: about I was like, I had like four meetings and

613
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: then I was like, I got to cancel them. This

614
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 2: Joseph Scott Morgan is talking to me about bone inhalation

615
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 2: right now, and nobody can do it better.

616
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 3: And I feel like it's because he does sacred.

617
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 2: And scary and just the facts, ma'am. And there's something

618
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: slightly holy about you, Joseph, and I just I love

619
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 2: your family and anyway, it's been a long time and

620
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 2: I guess full circle if only we were making your

621
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 2: hip podcast body Bags, Welcome to ours.

622
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 6: Right, this is my favorite night of the week.

623
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,600
Speaker 3: We get to tick back right, where you go.

624
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 6: Court?

625
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 3: Where should we start? Where are we American idol?

626
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:12,320
Speaker 6: Yeah?

627
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 3: We should dive in.

628
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 5: This is this is a new case, very new, very

629
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 5: new eight days old So Caleb Flynn, who some people

630
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 5: may know as a former American IDOL contestant. Well, Caleb

631
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 5: Flynn was arraigned on murder felonious assault as well as

632
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 5: tampering with evidence. And these charges all relate to the

633
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 5: February sixteenth killing of his wife, Ashley Flynn. So again,

634
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 5: this just happened eight days ago now. Thirty seven year

635
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 5: old Ashley Flynn was found shot to death in her

636
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:50,720
Speaker 5: home in Ohio Tip Tip City and at the time,

637
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 5: her husband, Caleb was home as with their two children

638
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 5: and the accused, Caleb Flynn. He's pleaded not guilty. He

639
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 5: claimed that an intruder killed his wife. Prosecutors are alleging, however,

640
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,959
Speaker 5: that he used a nine millimeter handgun to put two

641
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 5: shots in his wife's head and then went on to

642
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 5: stage the crime scene in order to mislead investigators. Joseph

643
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 5: Scott Morgan, what do we need to.

644
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 6: Know anytime you have these kind of planned out events

645
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 6: like this, This is what we refer to as staging,

646
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,280
Speaker 6: allegedly planned out. Let me frame it that way, okay, kids, nice,

647
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 6: thank you allegedly allegedly allegedly so yeah, going down that road.

648
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 6: These are something that you really have to be in

649
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 6: tuned to. You know. We see them a lot with

650
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 6: cases where people take their allegedly take their own lives,

651
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 6: and it's tried, it's painted as something other than that. However,

652
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 6: the other side of the coin of this is that

653
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 6: you can have you can have homicides where people will

654
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 6: try to put the blame on someone else. And there's

655
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 6: there's a whole catalog of these cases like this out there,

656
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,720
Speaker 6: and that's what the police are alleging in this particular case.

657
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 6: And here can I tell you what a big tael

658
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 6: is for me? Bodies here and body likes the word

659
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 6: a big tail relative to Vegas. Probably you think about

660
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 6: a tell anytime I hear someone say, and this is

661
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 6: apparently on the None one one tape, he says, she's

662
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 6: been shot twice in the head.

663
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, how would he know that?

664
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 6: Exactly? Because it's be honest with you, a little bit graphic.

665
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 6: Most of the time gsws are it's a bloody mess,

666
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 6: particularly when you're talking about the head. Now you've been

667
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 6: able to assess this at this point through all of

668
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 6: the psychodrama you're going through, all of a sudden, you

669
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,839
Speaker 6: can say definitively that there's two gsws to the head.

670
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: And I just want to paint a picture too for

671
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 3: the women out there like me. Right, imagine you comes

672
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 3: across a crime scene with somebody that has two gunshot

673
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 3: wounds to hand. It's going to be very messy, right,

674
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 3: It's going to be very bloody. How are you going

675
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 3: to know through all that tissue and blood and everything

676
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 3: that there's shong gunshots? Right? How are you going to

677
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,799
Speaker 3: be able to know that unless you did it?

678
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, let me give you a little inside baseball here, please,

679
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 6: I can this is something that I think that listeners

680
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 6: will be very intrigued by from a forensic standpoint. Did

681
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 6: you know that? Well, I can tell you from my

682
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 6: own personal experience. I will go out or have gone

683
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:53,320
Speaker 6: out to scenes where I will have multiple gunshot wounds

684
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 6: to a victim, and I will only think that there

685
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 6: is a single GSW to the head, Okay, And because

686
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 6: it's such a confounding mess, that's what I tell the pathologist.

687
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 6: You know, when the body's going to come in, it

688
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 6: appears that there is one GSW to the head. Get

689
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 6: in there. And one of the things that we commonly

690
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 6: do at autopsy because you have to. We literally shave

691
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 6: the head and so for a number of reasons, but

692
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 6: most importantly to assess everything. I've actually had cases where

693
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 6: I have found two three and four gun shot once

694
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 6: to the head, but I couldn't make it out of

695
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,360
Speaker 6: the scene because think about where you're working the scenes.

696
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,880
Speaker 6: It's not always in a pristine, nice house somewhere. You

697
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 6: certainly don't. You go back to the autopsy suite where

698
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 6: you've got like surgical quality lighting in there, and you

699
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,440
Speaker 6: begin to palpate, you know, touch that sort of thing

700
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 6: you're touching, touching the surface, and then you begin you

701
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 6: take your scalpel and you shave, and it's like, oh

702
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,840
Speaker 6: my lord, And then you have to go into everything

703
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 6: you have to do relative to range of fire, you

704
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,200
Speaker 6: know how what's the powder deposition or the stippling like

705
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 6: on the surface of the injury, the angle above below.

706
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 6: You hear say that a lot from below to right,

707
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 6: and you cannot. I always tell the young investigators do

708
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 6: not paint yourself into a corner. And so when you're

709
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 6: talking about stage case in particular, because what they're trying

710
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 6: to do is that it's like three card monte. You

711
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,240
Speaker 6: know if you've ever seen this happen on the streets,

712
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 6: you know, you go to someplace like New York and

713
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 6: they're playing three card monte they used to. They're trying

714
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,319
Speaker 6: to buy into an idea. They're trying to sell this

715
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 6: really hard, and they'll feed you along the way, you know,

716
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 6: so to try to get you into this.

717
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 3: Unbelievable.

718
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:57,439
Speaker 5: Well, I want to point it, first of all, thank

719
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 5: you for that, because when you say it, it's so obvious.

720
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 5: But that didn't raise a flag in my mind. But

721
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 5: of course you come home, it's your wife, you're with

722
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 5: your two kids, right And then also on the scene,

723
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 5: So what the accused Caleb Flynn, He reported that the

724
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 5: garage door was wide open. Police noted that he was

725
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 5: hyperventilating when they arrived. That doesn't seem strange. The two

726
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 5: children were there, which is horrible if in fact you

727
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 5: did do this. But then all officers also documented the

728
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,960
Speaker 5: garage side door was open and a large refrigerator was

729
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 5: in front. Also that the center console of the four truck,

730
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 5: where allegedly Caleb Flynn stored his handgun was open.

731
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, really, who would know that he puts

732
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,959
Speaker 3: his gun in there? Other than him yeah, right right,

733
00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 3: I mean no, I'm getting Brendan Banfield. He was there.

734
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 5: He was the husband in the nanny case, as we

735
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 5: are referred to a pair, the pair case with the affair,

736
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:15,319
Speaker 5: and and he was waxing poetic about the a pair

737
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,640
Speaker 5: looked over his shoulder one time and found the combination

738
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 5: to where he kept his gun, and it just read like.

739
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 3: His garment is so gross. Yeah, he was trying to.

740
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 6: And this, this is the kind of granular detail that

741
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 6: I have a real, a real problem with. I have

742
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,760
Speaker 6: a real problem with relative to when you have a reporter.

743
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 6: We use two terms. We call it reporter and find

744
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 6: her find her. Many times it's like the husband or

745
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 6: the spouse finds the person, Okay, And that's kind of

746
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 6: the vernacular you know that we use, so the finder.

747
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 6: When they begin to give me granular detail, it raises

748
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 6: a red flag in my brain.

749
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like over sharing almost.

750
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, precisely. I love the term because in the

751
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 6: immediate because you get these people that are really shocky,

752
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 6: you know, And I've had people that are nonverbal. I've

753
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 6: actually had people that appear to be kind of catatonic

754
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 6: on thousand yards stare and you try to be real

755
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 6: patient with them, you know, because I've seen people, you know,

756
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 6: really aggressive people that are investigators. They'll get up in

757
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 6: people's faces. You're going to tell me, and you don't

758
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 6: know what's going on inside the person's brain, and you

759
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 6: sure witness what they've witnessed. So you have to you

760
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 6: have to here's another one. You got to read the room.

761
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 6: You have to read the room relative to this. But

762
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 6: when I have somebody that is feeding me all of

763
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 6: this information, and part of being a really good investigator,

764
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 6: particularly when it comes to particularly when it comes to

765
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:58,399
Speaker 6: stage cases, is not the questions you ask, but how

766
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 6: well do you listen? Really good investigator rarely says anything.

767
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 6: They sit there with a notepad and they tech notes

768
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 6: and they know when to q in and just let

769
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:12,800
Speaker 6: the person talk.

770
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, when people just talk themselves to death, right.

771
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 6: Yeah, and they can talk themselves into a new se

772
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 6: And you.

773
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 3: Can make somebody really uncomfortable by just listening.

774
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, just so beautiful silence, just staring at them. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

775
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 6: you really can't.

776
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 3: So this will be an interesting case to watch.

777
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 5: So with the prosecutors, they're alleging that the accused, Caleb Flynn,

778
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,719
Speaker 5: he staged this crime scene to mislead the detectives that

779
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 5: he was the one who manipulated the garage door as

780
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 5: well as moved the furniture around to make it look

781
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 5: like a break and always a mistake in all the

782
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:51,960
Speaker 5: movies I watch in the cases we follow. Meanwhile, that

783
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 5: what the defense is saying is that the attorney is

784
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 5: l Patrick Mulligan and Mulligan.

785
00:43:59,320 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 3: I love that name.

786
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 6: Golf.

787
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 3: I love a Mulligan. Are you thinking of X files?

788
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 3: Is that mulligan? Was it Mulligan? Now that's a golf term, Mulligan, Like,

789
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: I got to try again.

790
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 5: Well, in any case, this guy, he's trying this case

791
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 5: once and uh, what he said is that he and

792
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,160
Speaker 5: Caleb Flynn, they accused, are both really disappointed. They're concerned

793
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 5: about how short the timeline was. So what they're saying

794
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 5: is that the prosecution rushed. They're saying, see it's very fast.

795
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 5: And he straight said when the government runs out of

796
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 5: leads or can't develop leads, they look at a surviving

797
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,799
Speaker 5: spouse and the chance for wrongful conviction increases.

798
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 2: I'd be curious about the wrongful conviction of spouses because

799
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,839
Speaker 2: it is true. I mean, of course we've covered this

800
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 2: every night we talk about this that of course the

801
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 2: immediate family, the spouse is immediately a suspect.

802
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 3: It is not personal.

803
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 2: It is just protocol that you have to just bust

804
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 2: through the mediate people that are in the person's life.

805
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 2: It's not because you're guilty you have to be eliminated.

806
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,040
Speaker 2: It's like the process of elimination is is the process?

807
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:09,359
Speaker 8: Right?

808
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 2: So not uncommon that he's being accused, but typically there's

809
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 2: a motive and there doesn't seem to be an extraordinary

810
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,800
Speaker 2: one here. Obviously it's very high profile, I mean American Idol,

811
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 2: it's a big deal. People do recognize him.

812
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 3: I don't know what to make of this one.

813
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 5: Well, I think a lot will come out in the trial,

814
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 5: of course, and we'll learn.

815
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 3: No motives have come out, but it does seem like

816
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 3: it does seem low that he was arrested fairly quickly,

817
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 3: so they might have something, you know, maybe they did.

818
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 2: The shot knows the gunshot count, that's yeah, But I

819
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 2: wonder if there's got to be something more to like

820
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 2: gearshot residue.

821
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 3: And that's a gunshot residue.

822
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 9: Is what I was thinking that you want to know

823
00:45:54,840 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 9: about financials, right, because you know the underpinning many times

824
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 9: of domestic problems is not and I was reading this

825
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,359
Speaker 9: not too long ago where they were saying the line

826
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,280
Speaker 9: share of domestic problems is not necessarily always infidelity.

827
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 6: The number one reason many times is going to be

828
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:13,760
Speaker 6: financial pressure.

829
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 2: Oh, it's usually always financial pressure. And by the way,

830
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,839
Speaker 2: the infidelity might add to that, but financial pressure, it's

831
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 2: probably the leading from American Idol. Do you guys remember him?

832
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: I worked on American Idol season one? Did you know

833
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 2: him Clarkson season? But no, so early days dayson and

834
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 2: I were killer. No, I didn't know him because he

835
00:46:38,080 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 2: was a much later season. That's why you don't recognize him.

836
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 3: No Kelly Clarkson, No, no, no, Miss Kelly love her well.

837
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,439
Speaker 3: Coming up at the top of the hour, Josephcott Morgan

838
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 3: stays with us, Thank God, as we dive into the

839
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 3: Anner Kepner death at sea. She was found under the

840
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 3: cruise ship bed and now her teenage stepbrother gets charged

841
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 3: in a sealed federal case. You're true.

842
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: Welcome back back to crime tonight on our Heart Radio.

843
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 2: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker

844
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 2: here with Courtney Armstrong and Body Move in and we

845
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 2: have Joseph Scott Morgan with us, host of the hit

846
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 2: podcast body Bags.

847
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 3: Listen.

848
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 2: If you are just joining us and he missed the

849
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 2: first hour, listen, you don't have to worry at all.

850
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 3: You can just call us eight eight eight three one Crime.

851
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 2: Joseph is breaking down all of this American idol contestant

852
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: who's accused of murdering his wife and maybe staging the

853
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: entire crime scene. So it's uh, it's one to watch court.

854
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 2: WHI should we discuss next?

855
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,400
Speaker 5: Well, Anna Kepner, there's been a little bit of an update,

856
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 5: and if it's been a while since we've spoken about her,

857
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 5: but eighteen year old Anna Koepner, She's from Florida and

858
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 5: was very sadly found dead under the bed in her

859
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 5: cabin on the Carnival Horizon cruise ship.

860
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 3: This happened just a couple of months ago, November of.

861
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 5: Last year, and she's alleged to have died from exphyxiation

862
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 5: caused by a bar hold, which is often picture like

863
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 5: a chokehold, someone's forearm on someone's neck. Federal authorities they

864
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 5: have been investigating her death and pretty much since the beginning,

865
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 5: seems like they've been focusing on Anna Koepner's sixteen year

866
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 5: old stepbrother as the main suspect.

867
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't remember they're ever talking about another suspect ever,

868
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 3: like day ever, right.

869
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 5: Day one they share they were sharing the cabin along

870
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 5: with Anna Kepner's younger biological brother.

871
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 3: And yeah, it's.

872
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:54,719
Speaker 5: Been pretty much day one. But all the while there's

873
00:48:54,719 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 5: been really complicated family and custody dynamics in play. But

874
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 5: due to new custody related court filings, now it's public

875
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 5: information that Anna Kapner's sixteen year old step brother has

876
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 5: been officially charged with homicide in federal court. And this

877
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:17,320
Speaker 5: actually happened a few weeks ago but came out more recently.

878
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 3: So it was it's homicide, officially charged with homicide and

879
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 3: federal court. Well, and we had seen that he was

880
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 3: in court, right, remember he went into the clerk's office

881
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,240
Speaker 3: and wasn't making any comments. And I think we reported

882
00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 3: on that a couple of weeks ago, probably that's right, Yeah,

883
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:43,440
Speaker 3: probably when this all came out. The filing stated that

884
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 3: there was a significant and unanticipated change in circumstances that

885
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 3: requires the immediate transfer of soul time sharing and parental responsibility,

886
00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 3: and then that's the that's the filing, but it's due

887
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 3: to the homicide charges against you know, the sons. Yeah,

888
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,440
Speaker 3: we'll think about it. So now you know, what are

889
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 3: you going to say?

890
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 2: You're going to have your son who has now been

891
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 2: accused of homicide of murder at sixteen years old.

892
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 3: So life is.

893
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 2: Over if he is convicted, as we know it. Right,

894
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 2: So he's going to live with the person whose child

895
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:26,879
Speaker 2: was allegedly killed by them, right, Well, that's impossible, right,

896
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 2: And it says that in the petition.

897
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,240
Speaker 3: In that petition, the father of the suspect, the step

898
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 3: son stated to be living with her stepfather where her

899
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 3: brother has been accused of and it's redacted. And so

900
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 3: I don't know what that redacted is. But listen, accused

901
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 3: of redacted and murdering the daughter of her stepfather, all

902
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,720
Speaker 3: while the son is supporting or the father is supporting

903
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 3: a son. So what is there? Pause? Yeah, pause for

904
00:50:58,719 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: one second there.

905
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, So, Joseph, where does your mind go? Because this

906
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 5: is the question we were all itching to ask you, like,

907
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 5: it's something and murder, but the something is.

908
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 6: Redacted concealing of a corpse, I think, and this goes

909
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,680
Speaker 6: I think about a month maybe it was a month ago,

910
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:24,120
Speaker 6: I think in the mail and this term kind of

911
00:51:24,160 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 6: popped into my mind as a descriptor. I don't know,

912
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 6: you know, it kind of was drug up out of

913
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 6: my subconscious whatever. But I described this as an infantile act.

914
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 6: And what I meant by that this is like I

915
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 6: was thinking about when I was about eight years old.

916
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 6: I had a cousin that had this very antique and

917
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 6: valuable Franklin BB gun and I had taken out in

918
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 6: the woods and cracked the stock on it and took it,

919
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 6: hit it beneath the bed and left my mother and

920
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 6: I moved out. We were living with him, and long

921
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:10,920
Speaker 6: story here, but I did that reactively, okay, And of

922
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 6: course we got to call like a month later, Joey

923
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 6: have my gun? And did he break it? Well? Yeah,

924
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 6: hell yeah, Joey had the gun and he broke it.

925
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 6: Child reaction to that, yeah, So a little dark secret there.

926
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 6: But when I saw this and when I heard about it,

927
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 6: it sounded like a child that had broken something, you know,

928
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 6: And that's horrible to make that comparison, maybe, but I

929
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:38,879
Speaker 6: think that it's it's spot on that you don't have

930
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:43,120
Speaker 6: any choice, and the way she was concealed, and I

931
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 6: can go into the detail about that what I know,

932
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:51,680
Speaker 6: and it's just the nature of it is a very

933
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 6: reactionary kind of thing.

934
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:57,920
Speaker 3: But what didn't Okay, So the way this is worded,

935
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 3: though the accused of redacted and murdering, wouldn't it be

936
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 3: wouldn't it be murdering and concealing? It wouldn't be redacted

937
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 3: and murdering. I think the adapted to something happening happened

938
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: prior to the murder.

939
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 6: Who Yeah, and that right, you can go down a

940
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 6: really dark path with that, because we know that there

941
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 6: was shouting and screaming and things going on. There's allegedly

942
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 6: been this weird dynamic and I don't necessarily know that

943
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 6: it's weird you think about just biology. Yeah, two are

944
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 6: not kN all right, and why the hell they're in

945
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 6: the sane and they haven't known each other very very long.

946
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 6: But there's this thing that's floating about, you know, where

947
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 6: this accused individual has been obsessed over her right and

948
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 6: that in and of itself, from a parental standpoint, is

949
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 6: troubling as hell to me because you've put this child,

950
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:02,720
Speaker 6: this victim, murdered young girl, in a horrible position now

951
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 6: you know, she's you know, she's got to sleep with

952
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 6: one eye open, and it's terrible. And if anybody's ever been,

953
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 6: and many people have on a cruise ship, it's not

954
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 6: like it's a huge space where you can have your

955
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:20,200
Speaker 6: own kind of secretive area or protected area. You're going

956
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 6: to have an area that is adjacent to these people,

957
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 6: you know, And how terrifying is that. I know that

958
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,760
Speaker 6: is a daddy, you know, so so true.

959
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 2: You know, it's again a cautionary tale. They did say, though,

960
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 2: I mean, again not making too much grace for this,

961
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 2: but that there was the youngest the youngest sibling, and

962
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 2: as brother younger brother was also staying with them, so

963
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,239
Speaker 2: that might have in their minds mom and dads or

964
00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:50,760
Speaker 2: you know, dad and stepmoms, you know, judgment.

965
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 3: Probably maybe that felt okay.

966
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 2: But I think this is again one of those cases

967
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 2: that in talking about it, you're kind of informing your

968
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,759
Speaker 2: own self fun what to do in these situations, God forbid.

969
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 2: Yeah not the co ed recent step sibling room.

970
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think about and that child allegedly led out

971
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,120
Speaker 6: of the room because there was this teeda tag going

972
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 6: on whatever it was at this point, And of course

973
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 6: we don't know all of the gritty details, but I

974
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 6: do know this relative to this child's body. This particular

975
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,279
Speaker 6: cruise ship is the is one of the few in

976
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 6: the fleet that where they actually keep the life fest

977
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:42,080
Speaker 6: in the room. Apparently when you take one of these cruises,

978
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 6: there is a central gathering area that they go through

979
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 6: the safety thing when you come here to get your

980
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:50,720
Speaker 6: life ast. That's not the way they roll on this ship.

981
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 6: You have your lifest in there. So we talk about

982
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 6: things in forensics like items of convenience. So when you

983
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 6: think about body being blanketed and then you have life

984
00:56:02,920 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 6: vests that are kind of shoved on top of it,

985
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 6: that goes to this kind of infantile reasoning. I'm not

986
00:56:08,840 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 6: making an excuse for this kid who allegedly did this,

987
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,799
Speaker 6: but it's whatever is at hand, because you have an

988
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 6: adult that will do this as well, and not very long,

989
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 6: you know, thinking very I think one of my things

990
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 6: is I'm trying to understand if this room had a balcony,

991
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 6: And if the room had a balcony, that means that

992
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,919
Speaker 6: you can overlook, you know, this broad expanse of water.

993
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 6: Why are you going to retain the remains in the room,

994
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 6: or why are you not going to remove them from

995
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 6: a room and take them somewhere else, you know, which

996
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 6: is very very troubling on many levels. You know, when

997
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:50,320
Speaker 6: you think about what's going through a perpetrator's mind, access

998
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 6: an opportunity Because I got to thinking, you know, I've

999
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 6: covered this from the beginning. I really got thinking you

1000
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 6: all about the the nature of who else you could

1001
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 6: have come in contact with, uh my understanding and correct

1002
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 6: me if I'm wrong. I think I think that her

1003
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 6: talks was clean. I don't think that there was there

1004
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 6: was anything on board I might be miss speaking there forgiving.

1005
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,560
Speaker 3: Me psychology was clean.

1006
00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 6: So you know, the first thing, I'm thinking, she got

1007
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 6: root or somebody slips something.

1008
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 2: I thought maybe she was slipped something on like the

1009
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:26,200
Speaker 2: cruise ship and like things went sideways.

1010
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And I really you know that that's something

1011
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 6: that went because what an easy mark, you know, for

1012
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:35,440
Speaker 6: somebody that that might be looking to do this kind

1013
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 6: of heinous act, you know, and you've you got this

1014
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 6: really bizarre environment you know that everybody's in. But then

1015
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 6: it goes back to what we've talked about so many times. Guys,

1016
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 6: you know that intimate circle, who has who has who

1017
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 6: has something against somebody, uh, a stranger on stranger crime

1018
00:57:55,040 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 6: doesn't happen with the same frequency as as as you know,

1019
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 6: familial violence or intimate violence. You know, it just doesn't.

1020
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 6: That's generally a Hollywood device. It does happen, but not

1021
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 6: to the degree that familial or intimate.

1022
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 3: Usually somebody you know.

1023
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, you have to have some level of anger,

1024
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:24,160
Speaker 6: you know, or something motivating, you know, something to gain, yeah, yeah, absolutely,

1025
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:25,439
Speaker 6: or that you're angry about.

1026
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 5: So yeah, if you're just joining us, this is true

1027
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 5: crime tonight, and we're talking about the case of eighteen

1028
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 5: year old Anna Kepner who she's the woman who lost

1029
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 5: her life on a cruise ship. Her sixteen year old

1030
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 5: step brother is alleged to have caused the homicide. There

1031
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,120
Speaker 5: was one other thing I wanted to bring up, so

1032
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 5: in these court filings, the father of the sixteen year

1033
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:54,520
Speaker 5: old suspect, he also has alleged concerns about the parenting

1034
00:58:55,200 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 5: that was going on in the household, including alcohol served

1035
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:07,160
Speaker 5: to minor is an improper medication management, and so that

1036
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,760
Speaker 5: seems specific and odd to me.

1037
00:59:10,520 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 3: Well, I'm kind of I'm kind of wondering. I mean,

1038
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:14,720
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm reading between the lines and that can

1039
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 3: be dangerous, right, But it kind of sounds like he's

1040
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 3: saying that the parents are kind of like liberal with

1041
00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:26,960
Speaker 3: you know, letting the kids drink, right or providing them,

1042
00:59:27,160 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 3: you know, a sip here and there. Is it possible?

1043
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:35,480
Speaker 3: Is it possible that you know, and the medication issue? Right?

1044
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 3: Is it possible that the kid has some sort of

1045
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 3: issue and I don't know where he needs medication and

1046
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,760
Speaker 3: they're not really strict on it. Number one? And number two?

1047
00:59:44,920 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 3: Is it is he kind of alleging that they let

1048
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 3: him have a little you know, sippy sip or two

1049
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:52,360
Speaker 3: at the dinner table on the cruise ship.

1050
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: And that he turned into party bands and maybe doesn't

1051
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: know what his boundaries are, and that those boundaries were.

1052
00:59:58,360 --> 01:00:01,720
Speaker 3: And that we're quite op was the case, which was

1053
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 3: pretty drafted allegedly.

1054
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:07,959
Speaker 2: And remember Anna Kepner's boyfriend or ex boyfriend, and again

1055
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 2: take this with a grain of salt because they're young,

1056
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 2: you know, but had said that Anna had intimated to

1057
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 2: him her ex boyfriend that you know, she was having

1058
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 2: like this creepy vibe with the stepbrother. So I don't know,

1059
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 2: the sixteen year old thing to say really just rips

1060
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:26,440
Speaker 2: my heart out. And you know, this is a second

1061
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 2: case tonight that is really surrounding very complicated family dynamics,

1062
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 2: and I mean families are complicated the end. There's any

1063
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: single family, raise your hand, if you have a perfect family.

1064
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 2: If you raised your hand, you get a sweatshirt for sure.

1065
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:44,280
Speaker 2: What's your secret?

1066
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 3: And we should know too, with all the speculation and

1067
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 3: you know, implications that he was talking about, since he

1068
01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 3: does say he's innocent, and early toxicology results showed that

1069
01:00:55,960 --> 01:01:00,520
Speaker 3: there was no alcohol drugs in Anna Kepner system and

1070
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:03,360
Speaker 3: there was no sign of sexual assault. Those were the

1071
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,919
Speaker 3: early public reports. We don't have the details of a

1072
01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 3: full report, so I just want to make that clearer.

1073
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 6: This is all just you know, and a perfect world

1074
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:15,440
Speaker 6: wouldn't be great to know what his talking.

1075
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:17,640
Speaker 5: That's what I was just going to say, what was

1076
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 5: his you know, well, do we know if he would

1077
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 5: have been tested? My recollection was that almost immediately the

1078
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:29,760
Speaker 5: next day he was brought into this is a sixteen

1079
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 5: year old suspect was sent to sort of a hospital

1080
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:35,560
Speaker 5: or something because he had such.

1081
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 2: An a mental break it. Yeah, like that's what Mema said,

1082
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 2: who his grandmother, Mema? She had said that she saw

1083
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 2: at a Keipner's accused step brother kind of really like

1084
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 2: he was just he was so overcome with emotion and

1085
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 2: probably because it's syncing in with this guy did he

1086
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 2: killed in Keptner allegedly and shoved her under the bed

1087
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 2: with life preservers.

1088
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:05,560
Speaker 3: That's got to be you have had all nights sleep

1089
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:06,640
Speaker 3: off whatever your.

1090
01:02:06,600 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 2: Brain itself, Like, can you imagine at sixteen years old

1091
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,600
Speaker 2: or like, please tell me I'm going to get away

1092
01:02:11,640 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 2: with something and then it's murder. It's like you, this

1093
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 2: is a Nightmary, I'll never wake up from and it's

1094
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 2: never coming back.

1095
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 6: Well, you know, I got to tell you. They would

1096
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:27,240
Speaker 6: have if he went to a medical facility. And again

1097
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:30,640
Speaker 6: it all depends on how long, what kind of time

1098
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 6: period elapsed here, they would have had to have done

1099
01:02:36,560 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 6: a blood draw if he went to a medical facility.

1100
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 6: Now how broad that spectrum is. But here's the cool part.

1101
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 6: If they did draw the blood, they probably still got it.

1102
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 3: Ooh, maybe that can be tested coming up, jose Scott

1103
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 3: Morgan continues as we examine the sister who buried Karen

1104
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 3: Peace in the backyard. Keep it right here to grime tonight.

1105
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 3: We're here on True crime tonight on iHeart Radio. We're

1106
01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:11,440
Speaker 3: talking true crime all the time. Courtney, were you and

1107
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,200
Speaker 3: I just doing a duet? I don't know what it

1108
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,520
Speaker 3: was like when.

1109
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's funny because it won't look from the mic.

1110
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 2: Courtney doesn't think I'm going to speak, so then she

1111
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 2: jumps up. But we're like, it's a little bit like

1112
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 2: being in like the Veg's were, like the Beach Boys live, folks, Okay,

1113
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 2: yeah we're alive. Yeah yeah, the Carpenters all right, day

1114
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 2: by day. Hi everybody, I'm stah here with Courtney and

1115
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:45,720
Speaker 2: Body and Joseph Scott Morgan. So, yes, this very complicated

1116
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 2: case that you've been covering, Joseph Body fill us in

1117
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 2: a little bit.

1118
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:52,680
Speaker 3: So Joseph actually brought this to our attention, and he's

1119
01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 3: going to be covering this pretty in depth. And I

1120
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 3: write about this Joseph on body Bags on Thursday?

1121
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 6: Is I righty?

1122
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:01,919
Speaker 3: We thought it was so interesting we wanted to beat

1123
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,480
Speaker 3: him to the punch, and we're going to use him

1124
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:09,680
Speaker 3: to do it. See how we do, see how we do?

1125
01:04:10,840 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 3: So last this is pretty crazy though. So last Monday

1126
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 3: on the sixteenth, Deborah Patten, she's seventy two, years old,

1127
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 3: and she was sentenced to life in prison for the

1128
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:27,280
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one shooting and burial in her backyard of

1129
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,560
Speaker 3: her sister. That her sister's name is Karen Pais I

1130
01:04:31,560 --> 01:04:33,960
Speaker 3: think earlier I said, pyes, because I'm hungry. What do

1131
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 3: you want? I can't help it. So Karen disappeared in

1132
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,520
Speaker 3: May of twenty twenty one from the home that she

1133
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 3: actually shared with her sister. This all happened in Tampa, Florida. Right.

1134
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:50,000
Speaker 3: Her body was found in the backyard, buried in trash

1135
01:04:50,040 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 3: bags and kind of like roped up. The sentencing brought

1136
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 3: final resolution to nearly a five year long case, delayed

1137
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:04,160
Speaker 3: by the mental competency of the defendant in this case, right,

1138
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 3: and all these legal challenges that come through that, Joseph,

1139
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,360
Speaker 3: So it finally was adjudicated. How long have you been

1140
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:10,800
Speaker 3: following this?

1141
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:14,480
Speaker 6: I don't know. I first heard about it well the

1142
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 6: day that it was adjudicated. I think it popped up

1143
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 6: on feed, okay, And when I saw this, No, actually

1144
01:05:20,920 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 6: i'd known about it prior to that. I knew that

1145
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 6: it was going to trial, and then when it was adjudicated,

1146
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 6: that's when I decided to pick it up and do

1147
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,960
Speaker 6: it on bodybacks. And one of the reasons is is

1148
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 6: that it was so incredibly bizarre because of the historyonics

1149
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 6: of the family. Again, we've got another family dynamic thing.

1150
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, your sister, I'm sorry.

1151
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 6: No, no. The victim here had lived this really full

1152
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 6: life and she was retired for horizon engineer, oh wow,

1153
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,760
Speaker 6: and had taken care of both of her elderly parents

1154
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:07,280
Speaker 6: that were suffering from Alzheimer's. They accused and now convicted

1155
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 6: sister had never lifted a finger.

1156
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 3: Right, And in fact, Joseph, correct me if I'm wrong,

1157
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 3: she lived the killer Deborah the sister, the killer sister.

1158
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 3: She lived in the victim's home rent free, and Karen

1159
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 3: paid all the bills, did all the work. In Deborah

1160
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 3: the killer was just kind of like a mooch.

1161
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:30,600
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, she really was a major mooch. And she

1162
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:36,920
Speaker 6: had left her her husband in Louisiana and moved to Florida.

1163
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:42,440
Speaker 6: And so Karen being, you know, this good hearted person

1164
01:06:42,480 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 6: who's this major gardener. She loved gardening, and people went

1165
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 6: on and on and on about how beautiful her yard was.

1166
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 6: A lot of irony here, I'm also sad. And so

1167
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 6: she shows up the door one day and says, you know,

1168
01:06:58,080 --> 01:06:59,680
Speaker 6: I've got a place to go. I want to move

1169
01:06:59,680 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 6: in with you. And there was there was squabbling, and

1170
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,800
Speaker 6: the sister had even built a separate area for her

1171
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:11,480
Speaker 6: sister with a little casida. Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly, so

1172
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,080
Speaker 6: she could come and go she please, and that sort

1173
01:07:14,120 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 6: of thing. And next thing, you know, Karen falls off

1174
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 6: the map. She's nowhere to be found.

1175
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:23,360
Speaker 3: She's not gardening, nobody's the neighbors aren't seeing her. No,

1176
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 3: And she told her friend Kathy. The victim told her

1177
01:07:27,080 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 3: friend Kathy, hey, listen, if I end up missing or

1178
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 3: something happens to me, Deborah did it. And if you

1179
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 3: find my body, my sister did it. So she knew

1180
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 3: that she was acting crazy, right.

1181
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, she was very erratic. People had made note of,

1182
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 6: you know, loud arguments, and Karen was not the type

1183
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 6: of person that would engage in this kind of behavior.

1184
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 6: You know, she was very dutiful, faithful to her parents,

1185
01:07:56,680 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 6: kind soul, the antithesis of of this monster that had

1186
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 6: shown up at her door. And you know, and as

1187
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 6: it turned out, as it turned out, police made this,

1188
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:13,480
Speaker 6: you know, eventually would go on to make this horrible

1189
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:18,400
Speaker 6: discovery immediately adjacent to her garden in the backyard, y'all.

1190
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:22,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, wow, that's very said. Yeah, it's reported that she

1191
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,320
Speaker 3: was only buried one feet deep.

1192
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, they're saying. I've heard estimates from one to two.

1193
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:35,719
Speaker 6: She she's been once. They got her removed from the space. Okay,

1194
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 6: she's been shot once in the chest. There's no weapon

1195
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:42,280
Speaker 6: to be found. The weapon to this date has not

1196
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 6: been found.

1197
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:43,799
Speaker 3: Oh wow.

1198
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,880
Speaker 6: The sister had been noted by neighbors that were watching

1199
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 6: this whole thing, developed had noted that she was taking

1200
01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 6: trash bags out, trash backs out, trash backs out. Think

1201
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 6: more than likely that weapon wound up in the landfill

1202
01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:02,240
Speaker 6: there that Jason, and they've never found it still to

1203
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:06,800
Speaker 6: this date. But she did shoot her sister, and she was.

1204
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 6: To give you an idea of the nature of the

1205
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 6: how she was cocooned. She's contained within trash bag. She's

1206
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:16,799
Speaker 6: kind of in a kind of a quasi fetal position.

1207
01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:23,080
Speaker 6: She is bound up with bungee cords and then they

1208
01:09:23,200 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 6: take she's taken duct tape and wrapped around this thing,

1209
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:31,599
Speaker 6: I say thing, the body of her sister and buried

1210
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 6: her in a very shallow grave. She didn't take time,

1211
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:39,080
Speaker 6: you know, to go really really deep and just simply

1212
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,880
Speaker 6: put her there and then kind of packed soil down,

1213
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 6: And it's pretty easy to spot. And particularly for us

1214
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 6: in forensics, one of the things that we look for

1215
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 6: when we go out on clandestine burials is we look

1216
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 6: for obviously freshly turned to her. And I'm going to

1217
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 6: give you a little nugget here of forensic science that

1218
01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:59,920
Speaker 6: you can kind of one of the things we look for. Like,

1219
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 6: if you go out on a scene, it's one thing

1220
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 6: to have freshly turned earth. But if you look at

1221
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:09,759
Speaker 6: a mound, if you look very carefully and you see

1222
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 6: the roots of like a bunch of grass sticking up

1223
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 6: through the dirt, you know that something's not right. You know,

1224
01:10:19,640 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 6: you know that this is not like you didn't go

1225
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 6: down to the lawn and garden store and buy like

1226
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:26,519
Speaker 6: topsoil and dumping in. This has been turned. You've got

1227
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 6: roots that are sticking up. I've seen this so many

1228
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 6: times on people that have buried individuals, and this is

1229
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 6: not like something that was planned. You know, because you

1230
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 6: think you think about Karen, who is a gardener, well,

1231
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:41,639
Speaker 6: it would stand a reason she would have freshly dug

1232
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:44,639
Speaker 6: areas out of the yard in this beautiful garden area

1233
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:47,880
Speaker 6: that she has done in Florida, and that just that

1234
01:10:48,040 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 6: wasn't the case here, and so she's you know, she's

1235
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 6: left there, her remains are left there, and she's eventually recovered.

1236
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 3: You know this is that was a really important note

1237
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 3: that you just made about the soil and roots, and

1238
01:11:00,640 --> 01:11:04,120
Speaker 3: it's something for people to keep in mind when when

1239
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 3: somebody is crowdsourcing an investigation and maybe they upload high

1240
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 3: resolution drone images of an area and you're looking for

1241
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 3: anything like shoes, anything, Look for that, Look for that

1242
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:19,440
Speaker 3: top that soil with those roots, right Joseph.

1243
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:24,480
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, absolutely, that in any kind of disturbance depressions

1244
01:11:25,240 --> 01:11:28,640
Speaker 6: that can be made. Because here's something interesting about clandestine

1245
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 6: burials that people don't know. And as time goes by

1246
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 6: and bodies begin to break down underground, the soil that

1247
01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:39,760
Speaker 6: you think you're putting back exactly like it was, you

1248
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 6: can never do that. Sure, you know, if some soil

1249
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:45,439
Speaker 6: has never been touched by human hands. Okay, so you

1250
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:47,320
Speaker 6: go there and you crack the top of it off,

1251
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:49,880
Speaker 6: you think you're going to get it back in. You can't.

1252
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 6: You can't compact it. And then if you put something

1253
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:57,759
Speaker 6: organic in there, like a body that the body begins

1254
01:11:57,760 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 6: to break down, guess what soil is going to do concurrent,

1255
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:02,720
Speaker 6: It's going to begin sink, and so you'll get this

1256
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:08,040
Speaker 6: kind of depressed, depressed arease. So we look for things

1257
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 6: like that. People do this very very frequently. Like, uh,

1258
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:16,679
Speaker 6: I've got colleagues that go to all around the world

1259
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 6: that are forensic anthropologists and they work on mass graves,

1260
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:22,439
Speaker 6: and so one of the things they do to look

1261
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 6: for mass graves is they look for these depressed areas

1262
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,280
Speaker 6: where something has been trenched out. We've got multiple bodies

1263
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 6: commingled remains in there, and then they'll push the dirt

1264
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:33,120
Speaker 6: back over there.

1265
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 3: I have to ask you. And it's not what we

1266
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 3: planned on talking about. And Stephanie might be interested in

1267
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 3: this as well. Okay, this ranch in New Mexico and

1268
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,680
Speaker 3: these bodies are buried.

1269
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 10: Right, yeah?

1270
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 3: Is it? Is it? What about the desert? Okay, so

1271
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 3: you know I talked about this the other night about

1272
01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:56,760
Speaker 3: how hard the ground is out here and the calichi

1273
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:01,559
Speaker 3: and the yeah, yeah, and it's people don't understand when

1274
01:13:01,560 --> 01:13:05,280
Speaker 3: I say, you just can't take a shovel to this record.

1275
01:13:05,360 --> 01:13:09,560
Speaker 3: But what does it look like if somebody's buried Joseph.

1276
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:12,080
Speaker 6: Well, it's the same principle. Applause. And I got to

1277
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 6: tell you, I'm so glad you brought this up because

1278
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 6: it's something I've been preaching for a while about this

1279
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:21,839
Speaker 6: particular case at this ranch. I felt like it should.

1280
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 3: Have been for a while I have, and.

1281
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:29,040
Speaker 6: So I'm glad you brought this up. When you look

1282
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:32,759
Speaker 6: at the distribution out there, and there's a specific area

1283
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:37,400
Speaker 6: that they have mentioned about the Zora property no longer

1284
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:40,400
Speaker 6: called Zoro property, but it was called a Zoro property.

1285
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 6: There's a particular ridge line that they're talking about where

1286
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,760
Speaker 6: this former worker said that there were two two victims

1287
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 6: that were buried out there, are entombed out there. They're

1288
01:13:55,080 --> 01:13:58,480
Speaker 6: going to do light ar, they're going to do GIS,

1289
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 6: they're going to map the area very very thoroughly.

1290
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:04,639
Speaker 3: Joseph, pardon me, what do those acronyms mean.

1291
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,960
Speaker 6: Well, light ur is kind of a radar system that

1292
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 6: they have in place where you can kind of scan

1293
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:18,760
Speaker 6: the ground almost topographically, and then they're going to use GIS,

1294
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 6: which is geospatial targeting where you actually do satellite and

1295
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,559
Speaker 6: drone imaging. And so they're going to map this thing

1296
01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 6: out and listen they're not going to come to adult

1297
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 6: like me to do this. They're going to come to there.

1298
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:38,000
Speaker 6: There is a practice, it's called forensic geology. Okay, they're

1299
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:41,080
Speaker 6: going to get those people. They're gonna get forensic anthropologists

1300
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 6: and god bless FBI, and they're e ert, they're fantastic.

1301
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:49,440
Speaker 6: But you need somebody that has an understanding of topography

1302
01:14:49,560 --> 01:14:53,080
Speaker 6: and tafonomy that has to do with soil, because I

1303
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:56,840
Speaker 6: got to tell you if there's two, if there's two,

1304
01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:06,400
Speaker 6: I always think there's probably more. And so if these

1305
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 6: alleged bodies that this person is talking about at Zoro.

1306
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 2: There's allegedly a train track under zero what m a train?

1307
01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 3: Where does it go? And there's allegedly a bunker, Well

1308
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:23,639
Speaker 3: where does it go? Will ground penetrating radar be able

1309
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:24,320
Speaker 3: to find a train?

1310
01:15:25,000 --> 01:15:28,599
Speaker 6: It very well might. But here here's the thing. At

1311
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 6: a ranch and most you know, when people are wealthy,

1312
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,080
Speaker 6: they'll have ranches and farms. Right, it's not because they

1313
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:36,599
Speaker 6: want to raise catvil and it's not because they want

1314
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,599
Speaker 6: to raise cot it's because they want to create kind

1315
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:43,280
Speaker 6: of attack shelter by saying the heavy farm. So they're

1316
01:15:43,320 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 6: calling us a ranch. Well with ranch guess what you get.

1317
01:15:46,280 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 6: You get heavy equipment. You don't have a couple of

1318
01:15:48,200 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 6: good old boys going out with a couple of shelves,

1319
01:15:50,080 --> 01:15:53,520
Speaker 6: right and digging a hole. Right. Okay, you got a couple.

1320
01:15:53,360 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 3: And you need to have the equipment for this desert.

1321
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, you.

1322
01:15:57,640 --> 01:15:58,960
Speaker 3: Don't want to raise suspicion.

1323
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,400
Speaker 2: It's so if you have a bulldozer going through all

1324
01:16:02,439 --> 01:16:04,360
Speaker 2: the time, if you're not a ranch, and that would

1325
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:09,599
Speaker 2: seem obscure. It says it's a hidden railroad. So that's

1326
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:13,240
Speaker 2: being speculated about that. There's where would you think, I

1327
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 2: don't know what. There's one underground bunker allegedly. And of

1328
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:23,080
Speaker 2: course this labyrinth circular kind of garden that he had,

1329
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:26,200
Speaker 2: which you know, some people say it's symbol at.

1330
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:28,960
Speaker 3: The property yesterday. It's gorgeous. It's a gorgeous property.

1331
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, how the gorgeous is particularly beautiful. I mean, it

1332
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 6: certainly is huge. But then do you think about the darkness.

1333
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:40,799
Speaker 3: Imagine being trapped.

1334
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 6: You're a kid in elaborate speak English, you've been brought

1335
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:49,720
Speaker 6: in from Eastern Europe, any of these other other locations.

1336
01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,360
Speaker 6: It just I got it. It makes me furious just

1337
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 6: to even talk about it. Most of the talks me too,

1338
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:57,400
Speaker 6: because I see the extents and the extent and the

1339
01:16:57,479 --> 01:17:00,639
Speaker 6: depth of some of the stuff now, and they were moving.

1340
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,840
Speaker 2: So people can't yell, Well, you can yell without teeth,

1341
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:08,160
Speaker 2: what do you mean? Yeah, you can't really saying that

1342
01:17:08,200 --> 01:17:08,920
Speaker 2: you can't bite.

1343
01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 3: You can't bite. You also can't be identified if you

1344
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 3: just have skeletal or remains either. I think that's more

1345
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:17,320
Speaker 3: what it would be.

1346
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:23,040
Speaker 6: Well, here's the beauty of it. We've got investigative genetic genealogy.

1347
01:17:22,439 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 3: Now well, now right, yeah, right, we sure do. That's right,

1348
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 3: we sure do.

1349
01:17:27,160 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 6: So good.

1350
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:30,960
Speaker 5: It seems like the tracks and the train car it

1351
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 5: was at least part of it where remnants of the

1352
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:39,960
Speaker 5: Freehols line of the New Mexico Central Railroad, which is

1353
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:40,719
Speaker 5: suggesting too.

1354
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 2: Because there's a big Masonic or Scientology church or something

1355
01:17:44,680 --> 01:17:49,280
Speaker 2: nearby as well. There's another like religious institution kind of nearby.

1356
01:17:49,720 --> 01:17:51,479
Speaker 3: I'm gonna look into that for sure. You know, I'm

1357
01:17:51,520 --> 01:17:54,360
Speaker 3: all about that. You just speak to my interests. I

1358
01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,400
Speaker 3: just I don't know. I just find it really interesting. Now,

1359
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:58,559
Speaker 3: how long ago? I don't we probably don't have time.

1360
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:02,759
Speaker 3: But has it been many years, like a decade or more? Okay, yeah, okay,

1361
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:04,639
Speaker 3: so we have to keep that in mind when you're

1362
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 3: flying your drone over and getting me those high res

1363
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:13,240
Speaker 3: images of the Zoro ranch. Right. Wow, you know, Joseph,

1364
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:15,599
Speaker 3: it's time. I can't believe a second.

1365
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:20,759
Speaker 6: I know it's song out. Yeah, drink.

1366
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 3: Bacer cocktail.

1367
01:18:24,320 --> 01:18:27,120
Speaker 5: Well listen, Thanks as always for lighting up our Tuesday

1368
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:31,120
Speaker 5: and filling our brains with such knowledge and for anyone

1369
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 5: who wants more forensic Deep Dies with Joseph Scott Morgan.

1370
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:39,519
Speaker 5: His amazing hit podcast body Bags. It drops on Thursday,

1371
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,800
Speaker 5: and also he is at Joseph Scott Morgan and his

1372
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:45,320
Speaker 5: YouTube channel is body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.

1373
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:58,960
Speaker 2: Thank you, guys, Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

1374
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 3: We're talking true crime all the time. Where has this

1375
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 3: night gone? I know.

1376
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:08,600
Speaker 2: Here with Courtney Armstrong, body moving, you'd be like a

1377
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:09,680
Speaker 2: little quiet.

1378
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:11,280
Speaker 3: Little, a little well.

1379
01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:15,200
Speaker 11: When Joseph is on, I stepped back. I let him

1380
01:19:15,240 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 11: take the take the ring.

1381
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:18,960
Speaker 3: There can only be one man on the show, one

1382
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 3: male star. Adam and Sam. Did you hear that? Adam

1383
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,040
Speaker 3: and Sam? Sorry, I'm not stepping out of bound.

1384
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:28,960
Speaker 6: The board.

1385
01:19:29,360 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 3: I did see Adam Perk up and I mentioned the

1386
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:34,599
Speaker 3: ranch though. He was like, oh, I'm paying attention incited.

1387
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:37,800
Speaker 2: I know, Adam and I might never get out of

1388
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 2: this rabbit hole. I'm kind of I don't even know

1389
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 2: how to present my my Can we talk about his

1390
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:46,640
Speaker 2: ex girlfriend tomorrow night?

1391
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:48,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, the one.

1392
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:52,760
Speaker 2: We did, we get a little bit more. It's do

1393
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:54,639
Speaker 2: a deeper dive into her a little bit. I think

1394
01:19:55,040 --> 01:19:59,000
Speaker 2: I'm curious about her. I want to there's everybody on

1395
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:00,840
Speaker 2: that list needs to do it deeper dive. We need

1396
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:01,680
Speaker 2: to do a deeper.

1397
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:04,559
Speaker 3: Geb, are you talking about the thirteen names exactly?

1398
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:08,360
Speaker 2: The most teams have been six, but same difference though,

1399
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:10,519
Speaker 2: and then the zorrow of it all.

1400
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 4: And then.

1401
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:15,400
Speaker 2: There's like some big ticket items that are just like

1402
01:20:15,479 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 2: too bananas.

1403
01:20:16,520 --> 01:20:19,800
Speaker 3: To It's it's so banana to know where you to eat,

1404
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:23,559
Speaker 3: to even start right, stuff like sounds it sounds like

1405
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 3: I need to be, you know, a lunatic asylum, right,

1406
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:30,200
Speaker 3: it feels like, so you sound like a lunatic. Well,

1407
01:20:30,680 --> 01:20:34,040
Speaker 3: and that's by design. They released all this at one

1408
01:20:34,080 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 3: big dump. It's by design. It's to make us crazy.

1409
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:40,280
Speaker 3: They're doing a great job. I think this is exactly

1410
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:43,439
Speaker 3: what's supposed to be happening, and we have to stay

1411
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:46,160
Speaker 3: the course and keep seeing and keep and you know what,

1412
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 3: keep reminding each other that we're all going through this.

1413
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:53,880
Speaker 3: You're not crazy, right, this is really happening. And once

1414
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 3: you kind of, like I think, settle into that, you

1415
01:20:57,439 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 3: kind of get a little bit calmer.

1416
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:03,799
Speaker 2: So true, and you might start noticing that some people,

1417
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 2: I think the good is so there. I'm like signing

1418
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:12,519
Speaker 2: in like twenty four to seven interactions that I'm having

1419
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 2: that are about any of the things that we're even

1420
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:17,000
Speaker 2: talking about tonight that are really tough topics, right, you

1421
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,559
Speaker 2: know what it is, everybody's filled with love and hope.

1422
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:23,320
Speaker 3: There's more of us than them. Yes, that's what's to

1423
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:26,800
Speaker 3: keep in mind. These are like, you know, the top

1424
01:21:27,080 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 3: let's just say the top point, you know, zero zero

1425
01:21:30,439 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 3: eight percent of people, right, there's a lot more of

1426
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:37,240
Speaker 3: us than them, and a lot more of us are

1427
01:21:37,240 --> 01:21:40,679
Speaker 3: caring and loving and value our front and have healthy lives,

1428
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:46,240
Speaker 3: healthy loving relationships and respect boundaries and all the good things. Right, Yep,

1429
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:48,040
Speaker 3: there's more of us than them. We just have to

1430
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 3: keep telling ourselves that. And you're not crazy, and thank god,

1431
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 3: am I having a stroke? By the way, No, right now,

1432
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:57,599
Speaker 3: we're saving you. Please, I'm never the positive one.

1433
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 2: What's happening where I mean, like, honestly, I just felt

1434
01:22:00,200 --> 01:22:02,360
Speaker 2: very moved, but I felt inspired.

1435
01:22:03,040 --> 01:22:05,320
Speaker 3: But so yeah, well done. But it's true.

1436
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:07,160
Speaker 2: I do really think that's the case, and I do

1437
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 2: think we are being gas lip purposely and we just

1438
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 2: can't take the baby and just to see through it

1439
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 2: a little bit. Let's like all collect our thoughts. That's right,

1440
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,400
Speaker 2: and you know information is power.

1441
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:20,960
Speaker 3: Not all of us can be all crazy at the

1442
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:26,280
Speaker 3: same time, we're not direct. Yes, let's do it.

1443
01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:29,759
Speaker 8: Hi, ladies, this is Liz from Washington. Thanks for playing

1444
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,479
Speaker 8: my voicemail just calling in. You asked for my hockey position.

1445
01:22:32,680 --> 01:22:35,360
Speaker 8: I typically play right wing. I am playing in a

1446
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:37,920
Speaker 8: lower level league right now, trying to get better at

1447
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:41,000
Speaker 8: my own defense, enforcing myself to close down a little bit. Addie,

1448
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 8: I know you said I give goalie vibes. I played

1449
01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:46,120
Speaker 8: one game as goalie in like nineteen ninety eight, and

1450
01:22:46,160 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 8: then I did one game this past summer. I did

1451
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 8: not win. Not my thing, but I do prefer right wing.

1452
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:55,439
Speaker 8: But I'll play wherever they need me. Skating out love

1453
01:22:55,439 --> 01:22:56,240
Speaker 8: you guys tonight.

1454
01:22:56,600 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 3: I see her as a blue line defender too, like

1455
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:03,360
Speaker 3: I I like, right, baby, she's scoring those goals. She's scoring.

1456
01:23:05,280 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 3: And you know, do you guys hear about that goalie.

1457
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 3: You know, the the guys who clean the ice on

1458
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:15,600
Speaker 3: that machine. Yeah, the zamboni. The zamboni driver had a

1459
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:17,920
Speaker 3: fill in for a goalie at I think it was

1460
01:23:17,960 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 3: the Predator's game and they won. It was a shoot up.

1461
01:23:21,680 --> 01:23:27,400
Speaker 3: I mean it was incredible. Yeah, he's good enough. He

1462
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 3: hoped it was a couple of years ago. Anyway, the

1463
01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:32,759
Speaker 3: story ice every day, that's a great movie.

1464
01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 2: It was a flod Yeah. Do you think you're living

1465
01:23:35,439 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 2: there at night? Because it doesn't really have a family.

1466
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:39,200
Speaker 2: Oh stop, I mean.

1467
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 3: He buys toys for the kids in the neighborhood. Anyway,

1468
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:47,880
Speaker 3: I want you to go be a defender though. I

1469
01:23:48,160 --> 01:23:51,200
Speaker 3: love defense. I like I like when there's a rush

1470
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 3: towards the goal and the defense are skating backwards trying

1471
01:23:54,000 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 3: to ye shimmy the I love it so tough. It's

1472
01:23:57,360 --> 01:24:01,000
Speaker 3: so good, so good. And did you guys see the

1473
01:24:01,280 --> 01:24:03,200
Speaker 3: did you guys we talked about this last night already.

1474
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 3: The hockey gold I can't get it. I'm like, so

1475
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:08,360
Speaker 3: patriotic when the Olympics are here. I'm like, I know,

1476
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:11,000
Speaker 3: I'm like, I want to stand for jacket. Yeah, I

1477
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 3: want the ruff lorne get up. How I thought the

1478
01:24:14,439 --> 01:24:15,280
Speaker 3: gear was cool.

1479
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:18,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's been really good commercials and I can't I

1480
01:24:18,240 --> 01:24:21,759
Speaker 5: don't know. It's probably a beer commercial, but it's everyone

1481
01:24:21,800 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 5: in all different jerseys. And then you know, Olympics, we're

1482
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:27,559
Speaker 5: all one team, and I like tear up every time.

1483
01:24:27,720 --> 01:24:30,320
Speaker 3: We are one team, right, you know, And it's funny.

1484
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:32,559
Speaker 2: I feel like the Olympics didn't get as much play

1485
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:33,040
Speaker 2: this year.

1486
01:24:33,080 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 3: It was just I feel like I see a little

1487
01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:40,479
Speaker 3: overshadowed controversy. Yeah, nobody paid attention to it, right, Yeah,

1488
01:24:40,640 --> 01:24:42,920
Speaker 3: it's it was a little overshadowed by like some like

1489
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 3: large news items, you know, and yeah, I will set

1490
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:49,760
Speaker 3: it on. Though I finally enjoy the Olympics. I don't know.

1491
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:54,200
Speaker 5: I found it harder with streaming because large I kept

1492
01:24:54,200 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 5: being getting like snippets, and I also just like to

1493
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 5: sort of have it on in the back versus like

1494
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:02,639
Speaker 5: sitting down and snippets.

1495
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, doesn't I like the story or like, you know.

1496
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 6: Man, don't build up?

1497
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:09,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah it's good. Do you have another doctor?

1498
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1499
01:25:10,320 --> 01:25:13,639
Speaker 12: Sure do Hi ladies, this is Alicia from New Jersey.

1500
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:16,439
Speaker 12: I'm listening to last night's episode when you had the

1501
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:19,840
Speaker 12: officer named Lisa Aunt and I literally had to stop

1502
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:21,720
Speaker 12: it to do this talk back because I have a

1503
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 12: little one with autism and it was so amazing to

1504
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:27,519
Speaker 12: hear her explain to everybody how to help if something

1505
01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:30,680
Speaker 12: ever happened. Our police department does have a program like that,

1506
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:34,320
Speaker 12: so it's awesome, and they distribute pamphlets to the special

1507
01:25:34,360 --> 01:25:36,920
Speaker 12: camp and it's so important to understand some of their

1508
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:40,600
Speaker 12: behaviors because they might not want to be touched, or

1509
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:44,479
Speaker 12: some of their reactions to officers or just people in

1510
01:25:44,560 --> 01:25:48,160
Speaker 12: general if they're missing, could be taken as aggressive, and

1511
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:51,519
Speaker 12: you see some tragedies come from that. And also when

1512
01:25:51,600 --> 01:25:54,439
Speaker 12: my little guy was really young and didn't speak, I

1513
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 12: was so afraid of being in any kind of car accident.

1514
01:25:57,840 --> 01:26:01,280
Speaker 3: Oh right, yeah, So yeah, Olisha, this is such a

1515
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:04,360
Speaker 3: near and dear I don't want to say issue, but

1516
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:06,800
Speaker 3: it's a concern to my heart and very near and dear.

1517
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:11,800
Speaker 3: And yeah, especially like nonverbal or you know, stemming, it

1518
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:15,720
Speaker 3: can be seen as as threatening to sometimes to officers, right,

1519
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:18,880
Speaker 3: and so the when the officer Lisa by the way,

1520
01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:21,120
Speaker 3: who I still can't get over that she called in.

1521
01:26:21,160 --> 01:26:23,680
Speaker 3: That was so fun, that was so satisfy.

1522
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 5: She was the one who helped solve the case of

1523
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 5: the missing sixty nine year old Leonise Demos. Theenis yes,

1524
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:32,200
Speaker 5: and it was just such a happy It was so great.

1525
01:26:32,200 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 3: Right, and she gave a lot of resources and talked

1526
01:26:34,400 --> 01:26:37,640
Speaker 3: about what to do if you know somebody with it,

1527
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 3: maybe that's medically needy or has some cognitive issues that

1528
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 3: you know, if they go missing, what to do, and

1529
01:26:45,520 --> 01:26:47,840
Speaker 3: it was really helpful. Anyway, I say all this to

1530
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:52,280
Speaker 3: say that autistic people like when there's and I say

1531
01:26:52,320 --> 01:26:57,680
Speaker 3: this as somebody you know, I'm autistic, when you know

1532
01:26:57,720 --> 01:27:01,519
Speaker 3: the police come, it can be overstimulating and frightening, especially

1533
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:06,400
Speaker 3: for children that are autistic, and autistic children tend to elope.

1534
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:08,479
Speaker 3: We talked about that when they, you know, leave the

1535
01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:12,080
Speaker 3: familiar home without telling anybody, and they'll just maybe a

1536
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 3: special interest a cat or water or something that they

1537
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 3: want to get to. Anyway, I'm rambling, but it's such

1538
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:21,639
Speaker 3: a near and dear uh issue to my heart, and

1539
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 3: God bless you and thank you for the talk back.

1540
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:26,920
Speaker 3: Thank you such a nice young man.

1541
01:27:27,040 --> 01:27:29,120
Speaker 2: I think you said son, right, Yeah, she said so

1542
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 2: and so great things.

1543
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:35,400
Speaker 3: Yeah I got to I'm.

1544
01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:36,320
Speaker 2: Sorry, no you don't.

1545
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:39,040
Speaker 11: That all came from the heart, and like, yeah, I

1546
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 11: got a.

1547
01:27:39,680 --> 01:27:42,120
Speaker 3: Couple of I know, I'm all self conscious.

1548
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:49,240
Speaker 11: Nor any time that we hear that, like something is

1549
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:53,120
Speaker 11: resonating with our listeners and it's actually impacting their reative.

1550
01:27:53,240 --> 01:27:56,880
Speaker 11: So so that's that's amazing to be. As a matter

1551
01:27:56,880 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 11: of fact, we have another talk back where we're impact

1552
01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 11: lives in a different way through what items being sent

1553
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:06,120
Speaker 11: to them.

1554
01:28:07,720 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 2: That is officially the sound of me getting my swag

1555
01:28:12,160 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 2: in the mail.

1556
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,480
Speaker 3: I'm so excited about my sweatshirt.

1557
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 12: I'm taking it on vacation with me next week, and

1558
01:28:18,960 --> 01:28:20,880
Speaker 12: I just want to tell you guys how much I

1559
01:28:20,920 --> 01:28:21,599
Speaker 12: appreciate it.

1560
01:28:21,640 --> 01:28:26,479
Speaker 3: I like, I have my yay.

1561
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:31,519
Speaker 2: Literally the only one that doesn't have one that possible.

1562
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 2: You guys are all it looks so good. You look

1563
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:35,040
Speaker 2: so good.

1564
01:28:35,479 --> 01:28:37,200
Speaker 3: Thank you for the talk about do you love it?

1565
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:37,439
Speaker 6: Like?

1566
01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:42,760
Speaker 3: I find this sweatshirt to be very It's not too heavy, right,

1567
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:47,200
Speaker 3: it's not too light. It's literally the softest. I love

1568
01:28:47,240 --> 01:28:53,519
Speaker 3: it. It's literally perfect. It's all gay he tested and no,

1569
01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:57,360
Speaker 3: I only have the older one. I'm excited to feel this.

1570
01:28:57,720 --> 01:29:02,200
Speaker 3: We have these grand plans while dressing. Okay, and so

1571
01:29:02,280 --> 01:29:06,120
Speaker 3: we ordered like custom hoodies. Do you guys remember we

1572
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 3: went like day one please they're beautiful. Two days of

1573
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:13,000
Speaker 3: my life. They are so beautiful, these hoodies. But they're

1574
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:18,000
Speaker 3: so heavy. They're they're like the old school champion when

1575
01:29:18,040 --> 01:29:22,839
Speaker 3: you first when and I love it when it's freezing,

1576
01:29:22,920 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 3: and you know, I'm going very rarely is freezing advice,

1577
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:29,719
Speaker 3: So this is like, oh, I love it. I'm sorry,

1578
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 3: I'm so glad.

1579
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:34,960
Speaker 2: Taha and I are the only ones who haven't received

1580
01:29:35,040 --> 01:29:36,520
Speaker 2: hours yet, and Adam.

1581
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 3: And Sadam and Adam haven't either. Oh, we feel like

1582
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:42,600
Speaker 3: it's personal. You did right. No, no, we haven't. We

1583
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:44,960
Speaker 3: were waiting anxiously maybe tomorrow.

1584
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:47,280
Speaker 2: Game says it was it was going to be in

1585
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:48,960
Speaker 2: my mailbox today, but it wasn't.

1586
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:59,120
Speaker 3: Let's another crime. Do we have a mail the Okay,

1587
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:02,320
Speaker 3: I'll post it on the website. But I do love

1588
01:30:02,360 --> 01:30:05,760
Speaker 3: it a lot. It's just it's cute and it says

1589
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:09,120
Speaker 3: allegedly allegedly allegedly on the back, and it's black, and

1590
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:11,320
Speaker 3: it's just heart.

1591
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 2: They really jumped right in and they were so cool

1592
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 2: they like those hoodies and the teas and the mug,

1593
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:20,920
Speaker 2: the mummy.

1594
01:30:23,080 --> 01:30:23,759
Speaker 3: With the mug.

1595
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 2: Sorry, because Whitney has to like now wrap them and

1596
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 2: put them in like the.

1597
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:29,719
Speaker 3: Things are kind of a nightmare.

1598
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:32,760
Speaker 2: The mugs are a little bit more annoying, I think.

1599
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:35,760
Speaker 2: So we're gonna have to We're gonna have to reorder soon.

1600
01:30:36,160 --> 01:30:38,920
Speaker 2: Don't tell anybody our bosses at iHeart they're going to

1601
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 2: be a little well. I think they're going to be

1602
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 2: excited because they're so kind and generous to even get

1603
01:30:43,160 --> 01:30:47,120
Speaker 2: this going. But we're gonna have very going to be

1604
01:30:47,160 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 2: out by the end of the week.

1605
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:59,519
Speaker 3: We need to ask what Daddy iHeart for Papa iHeart please,

1606
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:02,880
Speaker 3: please please, May we have some more. They're gonna want

1607
01:31:02,880 --> 01:31:03,400
Speaker 3: theirs too.

1608
01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:06,000
Speaker 2: They haven't gotten any either, because the fans come first,

1609
01:31:07,200 --> 01:31:08,240
Speaker 2: and that's so exciting.

1610
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:09,920
Speaker 6: I love it.

1611
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:12,599
Speaker 3: Another talk pack.

1612
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:17,559
Speaker 13: Hello friends, it's Leio over in BC, Canada. I've been

1613
01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:21,160
Speaker 13: seeing videos saying that Epstein is not dead, that he's

1614
01:31:21,200 --> 01:31:25,479
Speaker 13: still alive. He's playing Fortnite. There was emails referencing him

1615
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:29,639
Speaker 13: being on calls and meetings after his supposed death. Please

1616
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:33,240
Speaker 13: tell me what your thoughts and do some more research

1617
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:36,280
Speaker 13: for me. I'm tired of all of this stuff. Thanks guys,

1618
01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:36,800
Speaker 13: love you.

1619
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:39,120
Speaker 3: I know me too. It's the same. We have the

1620
01:31:39,120 --> 01:31:40,760
Speaker 3: same algorithm, you and I.

1621
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:43,679
Speaker 2: I get that all day. Also, I mean, listen, stranger

1622
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:47,799
Speaker 2: things have happened. I we have seen his autopsy photographs.

1623
01:31:48,120 --> 01:31:50,320
Speaker 3: But now people are saying that those aren't real, right,

1624
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:50,760
Speaker 3: which is.

1625
01:31:51,640 --> 01:31:54,760
Speaker 2: That is actually very possible and I'm not equipped to

1626
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 2: know one cadava from another, right. Joseph Scott Morgan is,

1627
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:03,759
Speaker 2: but he's never believed the suicide story, as we've covered

1628
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:07,240
Speaker 2: it pretty extensively, not just Joseid, but many.

1629
01:32:07,240 --> 01:32:09,760
Speaker 3: Have you seen this Fortnite thing? Have you heard how it?

1630
01:32:10,240 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 11: I haven't described that because I haven't seen it, or

1631
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:13,680
Speaker 11: for anyone else who hasn't seen it.

1632
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:16,760
Speaker 10: So in the files it came out there was an

1633
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 10: email where he had a receipt from Fortnite that he

1634
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:23,599
Speaker 10: spent like twenty five dollars on Fortnite v Bucks, which

1635
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:26,439
Speaker 10: is like the money you've spent to buy like new

1636
01:32:26,479 --> 01:32:29,120
Speaker 10: skins and stuff. And it has his gamer tag in

1637
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 10: Yeah right, yeah, so it has his gamer tag and

1638
01:32:31,320 --> 01:32:34,120
Speaker 10: it's little Saint Jeff is his gamer tag, which is

1639
01:32:34,439 --> 01:32:39,920
Speaker 10: real cute, but lsl so you could, but the user

1640
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:44,000
Speaker 10: info is public so you can search like when users

1641
01:32:44,000 --> 01:32:47,920
Speaker 10: have logged on and everything. So his file shows that

1642
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:51,640
Speaker 10: he logged on he was playing season one of Fortnite

1643
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:54,320
Speaker 10: and stopped in twenty nineteen, which is when he would

1644
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 10: have been arrested, and then his account when active again

1645
01:32:57,360 --> 01:33:01,759
Speaker 10: in like twenty twenty six of tel Aviv, Israel.

1646
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:05,200
Speaker 3: So I mean, you know, who knows how that day

1647
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:09,759
Speaker 3: video started appearing that are clearly ai of an older

1648
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:14,200
Speaker 3: Jeffrey with long hair bearded in tel Aviv.

1649
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:18,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's been officially debunked. Epic Games confirmed that the

1650
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:21,240
Speaker 5: account in question was a ruse by a player. Player

1651
01:33:21,360 --> 01:33:29,719
Speaker 5: changed their name to Jeffrey Epstein's prior handle and history.

1652
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:32,759
Speaker 2: Another one of those that has circulated that we also

1653
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:38,280
Speaker 2: debunk today is that Gilaine Maxwell's sister was not one

1654
01:33:38,280 --> 01:33:40,320
Speaker 2: of the founders of Amber Alert.

1655
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:42,720
Speaker 3: That came out. I don't know why. I'm like, I

1656
01:33:42,720 --> 01:33:45,320
Speaker 3: have my feet is craziness now? Well, I have a

1657
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:47,799
Speaker 3: crazy crazy well aage.

1658
01:33:48,040 --> 01:33:51,120
Speaker 2: I just have turned crazy because I'm it's working, I'm

1659
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:51,799
Speaker 2: being psyops.

1660
01:33:52,280 --> 01:33:55,280
Speaker 3: Is it a verb? Is it a noun? Ayops? I don't.

1661
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:57,920
Speaker 3: I don't actually no, I think it's a Now I

1662
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:02,160
Speaker 3: think it's because it's a descriptive the same did of verse.

1663
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:05,559
Speaker 5: Yeah, psychological What does it stand for? Psychological psychological operation?

1664
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1665
01:34:06,439 --> 01:34:09,479
Speaker 5: Operation, so that's that would be a noun, that's a thing,

1666
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:13,000
Speaker 5: and operation is a thing to be psyops.

1667
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:14,720
Speaker 6: Would mean for can you.

1668
01:34:17,080 --> 01:34:21,600
Speaker 3: We're gonna have to more right now. I don't know

1669
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:22,120
Speaker 3: what's happening.

1670
01:34:23,360 --> 01:34:27,840
Speaker 2: Jared Farantino, our favorite prosecutor is with us tomorrow, so listen,

1671
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:29,599
Speaker 2: we have to get through the Nick Reiner case again.

1672
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:32,439
Speaker 2: There's gonna be new developments on that front. Also, we

1673
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:33,800
Speaker 2: are going to do a little bit more into the

1674
01:34:33,840 --> 01:34:35,479
Speaker 2: Epstein files, not a ton.

1675
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:38,479
Speaker 3: We're doing it in small, small dosage. We're crazy for you.

1676
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:40,280
Speaker 3: Have the best nights. Stay safe out there.