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Speaker 3: Joe Biden may head to Israel this week. Welcome to
Speaker 3: the fastest show in politics, as the President today cancels
Speaker 3: a trip to Colorado ahead of an expected ground invasion
Speaker 3: in Gaza. We're joined by retired Air Force General David Deptula,
Speaker 3: who helped to write the book on drone strategy, spent
Speaker 3: thousands of hours flying over Afghanistan, and will be with
Speaker 3: us here in just a moment on the next steps
Speaker 3: for Israel. The US House still has no speaker. They're
Speaker 3: going to try to change that. In the next couple
Speaker 3: of days. We'll talk about Jim Jordan's full court press
Speaker 3: with our signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and
Speaker 3: Jeanie Shanzano. They're with us for the hour. Welcome to
Speaker 3: the Monday edition of Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew
Speaker 3: in Washington, where We've got a lot to learn this week,
Speaker 3: not only of course, who will be the next speaker.
Speaker 3: We'll see if we learn that this week. But of course,
Speaker 3: what's going to happen next in Israel? With the headline
Speaker 3: now in the terminal, Biden ways trip yes to Israel,
Speaker 3: considering a trip as part of a global push to
Speaker 3: prevent the war from spreading in the Middle East. He
Speaker 3: appeared on sixty minutes last evening, not knowing at least
Speaker 3: we didn't know that they would cancel a trip. The
Speaker 3: President had planned today to visit Pueblo, Colorado, staying here
Speaker 3: to manage issues at home, and could be on the
Speaker 3: jet within days from what we're reading in reports here
Speaker 3: on the terminal. President spoke, as I mentioned on sixty
Speaker 3: minutes last evening with Scott Pelley about the war in Israel.
Speaker 3: Do you believe that Hamas must be eliminated entirely?
Speaker 4: Yes, I do, But there needs to be a Palestinian authority.
Speaker 4: There needs to be a path to a Palestinian state.
Speaker 3: A path to a Palestinian state. As we bring in
Speaker 3: the voice of Jordan fae be In Bloomberg White House
Speaker 3: reporter who's with us at the table to get things
Speaker 3: started today. Jordan, it's great to see you. You've been
Speaker 3: reporting on this obviously since the terror attack happened, and
Speaker 3: now we're hearing reports that the president may actually get
Speaker 3: on Air Force one to go to Israel. You know,
Speaker 3: we talked about this, whether it was Florida, whether it
Speaker 3: was Hawaii, about how a presidential visit can be very disruptive,
Speaker 3: and I suspect that this would be a very difficult
Speaker 3: trip to plan. Do we think it'll happen.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it seems to be. There seems to be planning
Speaker 5: going on for him to go. They haven't announced whether
Speaker 5: that's official guest, but then pulling down that Colorado trip
Speaker 5: today would indicate there's some serious planning going on. And yeah,
Speaker 5: there's a lot of imperatives for Joe Biden to go,
Speaker 5: but it will be taxing, you know, both on the
Speaker 5: US sides getting a trip of that magnitude together on
Speaker 5: such a short timeline, and also the Israeli security services,
Speaker 5: who obviously have a lot on their plate, you're, given
Speaker 5: the nature of the conflict there. You know, in these visits,
Speaker 5: you know, the president isn't usually on the ground for
Speaker 5: a long time, but there's still a lot of security
Speaker 5: that goes into it to make sure the president.
Speaker 3: Says, I can't imagine the advanced planning here, and I
Speaker 3: suspect that it would be a relatively brief trip. What's
Speaker 3: the purpose though, I mean, obviously we know for a
Speaker 3: fact that Joe Biden's been in touch on a daily
Speaker 3: basis with Benjaminett Yaho, the Secretary has been in touch
Speaker 3: with Defense, their defense minister. Why does being in person matter?
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, Israeli Prime Minister Benjaminette Yahoo invited
Speaker 5: President Bien to visit Israel, and sot Yahoo obviously has
Speaker 5: his purposes. He wants the sort of steal of approval
Speaker 5: from the US President for whatever he's going to do
Speaker 5: with this campaign against Hamas and Gasa. But for the
Speaker 5: US president, there's a couple of considerations to play here.
Speaker 5: One is a diplomatic mission to make sure that whatever
Speaker 5: offensive Israel decides to launch that they kind of stay
Speaker 5: within downs, that they're limiting civilian casualties. And also to
Speaker 5: send a signal to you know, Hamas hasbala Iran to
Speaker 5: not get involved. Him showing up there would be a
Speaker 5: powerful symbol of that. But there's also domestic politics at play.
Speaker 5: This is an opportunity for President Biden to get out there,
Speaker 5: you show some leadership on the world stage as he
Speaker 5: ramps up his reelection bit.
Speaker 3: Well, that makes sense. They made an ad out of
Speaker 3: his trip to Ukraine, made him look like Tom Cruise
Speaker 3: a mission impossibly have the aviators on the whole bit.
Speaker 3: I suspect there's some campaigning inherently as part of this,
Speaker 3: but to put your name on what's about to happen
Speaker 3: is also part of this. Jordan listened to the President
Speaker 3: from last evening on sixty minutes when he was asked
Speaker 3: about protecting civilians and some of the carneage that could
Speaker 3: follow an invasion, a ground invasion of Gaza.
Speaker 4: I'm confident that Israel is going to act under the
Speaker 4: major the rules of war. There's a standards that democratic
Speaker 4: institutions and countries will go go by, and so I'm
Speaker 4: confident that there's going to be an ability for the
Speaker 4: innocence in Gaza to be able to have access to medicine,
Speaker 4: food and water.
Speaker 3: He talked about Israel's right to defend itself, but this
Speaker 3: is something he's going to have to deal with. The
Speaker 3: optics are not going to be great, obviously. Any ground
Speaker 3: invasion in Gaza is going to be extremely difficult, will
Speaker 3: come with heavy casualties, and he will have been there
Speaker 3: potentially moments earlier.
Speaker 5: Yeah, listen, if he goes and then Israel the day after,
Speaker 5: you know, launches a ground invasion and inflicts a large
Speaker 5: number of civilian casualties, that will be a problem for
Speaker 5: Joe Biden. But part of the reason he's going is
Speaker 5: again to maybe discourage them from doing that, or at
Speaker 5: least put some guardrails on. Like he said, you know,
Speaker 5: let's follow the rules of war. Let's make sure to
Speaker 5: limit civilian casualties. Let's target you know, hamas military political structure,
Speaker 5: but let's you know, leave the innocent people who are
Speaker 5: not a part of this to let go. And you know, again,
Speaker 5: Israel is relying on US equipment here, and so there's
Speaker 5: the implied tension there that, hey, if this goes off
Speaker 5: the rails, you know, yeah, maybe down the road you're
Speaker 5: not getting as much ammunition as you asked for.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's pretty smart, you know, you consider
Speaker 3: the message that could be delivered, a message over strength
Speaker 3: in person that could play well for the president politically
Speaker 3: if it came to bear. But we'll have to find out,
Speaker 3: of course. Jordan Fabian, great reporting and thank you as always,
Speaker 3: Bloomberg White House reporter. I'm sure as soon as Jordan
Speaker 3: knows about any potential trip to Israel, you'll see a
Speaker 3: headline on the terminal within seconds here as we bring
Speaker 3: in the voice of the General. I've been looking forward
Speaker 3: to this as long as I have known that Lieutenant
Speaker 3: David Deptula would be with US US Air Force retired,
Speaker 3: a man who is instrumental not only in the ground
Speaker 3: war over Afghanistan, but in positioning the Air Force to
Speaker 3: make use of drones to the extent that we're seeing
Speaker 3: now in Israel and also in Ukraine. General Deptula, welcome
Speaker 3: back to Bloomberg. It's great to see you, sir. This
Speaker 3: is going to be a very difficult mission for Israel,
Speaker 3: which is why we've seen repeated air strikes in Gaza.
Speaker 3: In fact, the terminal now reporting here at Bloomberg that
Speaker 3: there are as many as twelve hundred people Palestinians under
Speaker 3: rubble right now in Gaza. How much more of this
Speaker 3: will we see before ground troops roll in?
Speaker 6: Well, Joe, A couple of points right up front, And
Speaker 6: I hate to get too complex too quick, but war's
Speaker 6: a complex endeavor. And when speaking about war in this
Speaker 6: particular conflict, one's got to define the objectives that are
Speaker 6: being pursued at three different levels. That's strategic, operational, and tactical.
Speaker 6: And tactics are what generally garnered the most attention, but
Speaker 6: in reality you can only put tactics in context if
Speaker 6: you understand the higher order military objectives. So you know,
Speaker 6: we can start with the fact that Israel's stated strategic
Speaker 6: objective is to eliminate Hamas's military capability. And what I
Speaker 6: would tell you is that at the strategic level involves
Speaker 6: kind of five major elements as they relate to Hamas.
Speaker 6: First is the leadership. Then there are essential systems and processes.
Speaker 6: There's the Hamas infrastructure, they're personnel, and then their weapons systems.
Speaker 6: So each one of those elements or centers of gravity,
Speaker 6: if you will, will be decomposed into operational level target sets,
Speaker 6: and that's what the Israelis are in the process of doing,
Speaker 6: if they haven't already done or have planned for many years.
Speaker 6: And so there are a variety of examples of that
Speaker 6: committed control facilities, communications, under essential systems and processes, there's electricity, money, food,
Speaker 6: and so on and so forth. So then these are
Speaker 6: broken down into specific targets. And here's where now we
Speaker 6: get into the tactical level detail. And because of the
Speaker 6: extensive use of tunnel to hide and conduct operations and
Speaker 6: their entrances and exits being inside buildings, ground operations are
Speaker 6: near certainty that is going to draw Israel into the
Speaker 6: ground on the ground to be able to find, locate
Speaker 6: and destroy these facilities. So you know, that's a broad
Speaker 6: brush overview of what the Israeli military is facing right now.
Speaker 3: Understood to what extent then can Israel continue to seek
Speaker 3: advantage from the air. Obviously Hamas does not have an
Speaker 3: air force, and it's not just fighter jets. I look
Speaker 3: to you as someone who brought forth the largest increase
Speaker 3: in drone operations in air force history. The job that
Speaker 3: we'll see over the next couple of days will be
Speaker 3: very important. I think if I'm understanding you correctly to
Speaker 3: what happens and what shape of ground invasion takes.
Speaker 6: Right, and you raised an extraordinarily important point. And at
Speaker 6: this point in time, remotely pottered aircraft, unmannerial vehicles, drones,
Speaker 6: whatever you want to call them, have become an integral
Speaker 6: part of any operation.
Speaker 3: At the operational level.
Speaker 6: The Israeli defense forces are truly taking an integrated approach
Speaker 6: of AirLand, sea, information and cyber elements of which drones
Speaker 6: will provide. And let me put it this way, they'll
Speaker 6: play an extraordinarily important role. I mean, one of their
Speaker 6: values is that they can provide twenty four to seven
Speaker 6: observation of what's going on, in addition to carrying weapons
Speaker 6: to be able to rapidly respond to any aggressive use
Speaker 6: of force or movement by Hamasa's.
Speaker 7: Forces.
Speaker 6: So they are completely integral to the operations. And you
Speaker 6: heard earlier of some of the concerns with respect to weather. Well,
Speaker 6: quite frankly, that's because they want to have the ability
Speaker 6: to use drones to watch what's going on, observe movements,
Speaker 6: help in targeting as well as the application of forced themselves.
Speaker 3: You're a director of the Combined Air Operations Center for
Speaker 3: Operation Enduring Freedom over Afghanistan, and our listeners should know
Speaker 3: you were also a principal attack planner for Operation Desert
Speaker 3: Storms air campaign. And with someone who has over four
Speaker 3: hundred air combat hours, what can you tell us about
Speaker 3: the challenges that Israel is facing now fighting an army
Speaker 3: if you will, with no uniforms. It's of course not
Speaker 3: an organized army interspersed with civilians in this densely populated area.
Speaker 3: You've actually experienced conditions like this general.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the desert storm a conflict again to Rock was
Speaker 6: much more expansive. In other words, we're dealing with the
Speaker 6: breath and depth of an entire country, and as was
Speaker 6: the intensity. We're flying three thousand sorties a day over
Speaker 6: twelve hundred and fifty actual attack sorties a day, which
Speaker 6: is a lot of application of force. But one of
Speaker 6: the challenges that the Israelis are facing is because this
Speaker 6: is such a dense urban environment, and that's one of
Speaker 6: the reasons that they need to conduct an integrated campaign,
Speaker 6: capitalizing on what the air element brings to inform the
Speaker 6: ground forces and naval forces to achieve the objectives that
Speaker 6: I outlined. The other point I'd like to bring up
Speaker 6: here of Joe that I don't see very much attention
Speaker 6: paid to, and that's that it's very important to understand
Speaker 6: that Hamas's use of civilians is human shields, and misuse
Speaker 6: of protected sites like mosques and hospitals are war crimes
Speaker 6: in and of themselves.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 6: At the same time, it's important to note that even
Speaker 6: if Hamas uses human.
Speaker 3: Shields, which they are.
Speaker 6: Israel Is still bound by the principles of proportionality and
Speaker 6: have to take all feasible precautions to minimize harm to civilians,
Speaker 6: and they have a very strong history of doing that.
Speaker 6: But it doesn't mean that they cannot strike targets because
Speaker 6: of the presence of human shields. According to the Geneva Conventions,
Speaker 6: attack is allowed if the potential damage to civilians is
Speaker 6: not excessive in relation to the direct military advantage that's anticipated.
Speaker 6: So I don't want to get too into legal ease,
Speaker 6: but the presence of human shields do not prevent an attack,
Speaker 6: even if the conducting that attack might have considerable media impact.
Speaker 3: Well, that's awfully important for our listeners and our viewers
Speaker 3: to know. General, you flew the F fifteen. As I mentioned,
Speaker 3: you have hundreds of combat hours. That's a jet that
Speaker 3: the Israelis fly, among others made here in the US.
Speaker 3: We only have a minute left, General, I just wonder
Speaker 3: if it's your view that this mission can be accomplished
Speaker 3: without completely leveling Gaza.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you know. It's an extraordinarily challenging endeavor
Speaker 6: that the Israelis are embarking upon, but it's one that
Speaker 6: one needs to understand. Israel has fought limited wars with
Speaker 6: Hamas in the past, and those simply have not succeeded.
Speaker 6: So now they're faced with either overthrowing Hamas or rendering
Speaker 6: it completely ineffective, and that is going to be very,
Speaker 6: very challenging. But the Israeli defense forces or extraord nearly competent,
Speaker 6: and they'll do everything they can to protect civilian protect civilians.
Speaker 6: But at the same time, I think they're putting together
Speaker 6: an integrated operation that will be very effective in eliminating Hamas.
Speaker 6: And that's what they simply need to do, because Hamas's
Speaker 6: actions have shown that they are pure evil and must
Speaker 6: be eliminated.
Speaker 3: Well, there you have it from someone with first hand experience,
Speaker 3: Retired General David Deptula, It's great to see you, sir,
Speaker 3: now the dean of the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies
Speaker 3: and again former Air Force Deputy Chief for Intelligence, Surveillance
Speaker 3: and Reconnaissance along with former fighter pilot.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast.
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Speaker 3: Joe Biden could be on Air Force one on a
Speaker 3: trip to Israel in just a matter of days. That's
Speaker 3: the reporting now. As the National Security Council at the
Speaker 3: White House says they have no trip to announce, our
Speaker 3: reporting says that could take place in the next couple
Speaker 3: of days. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. We thank you
Speaker 3: for joining us on Bloomberg Sound On as we assemble
Speaker 3: our panel. Rick Davis and Jeanie shanzena with us on
Speaker 3: the Monday edition. Here as Anthony Blincoln turns up in
Speaker 3: Israel again an unscheduled return. He spoke earlier this.
Speaker 1: Morning, a.
Speaker 4: Deep commitment to Israel's right, indeed its obligation to defend
Speaker 4: itself and to defend its people.
Speaker 2: And in that you have, you've always had the support
Speaker 2: of the United States.
Speaker 3: This again, following the interview last evening Joe Biden on
Speaker 3: sixty minutes making the case for America in defense and
Speaker 3: support of Israel, though he also made news by talking
Speaker 3: about a potential occupation he was asked about this by
Speaker 3: Scott Pelly and Israeli occupation of Gaza.
Speaker 4: I think it'd be a big mistake. Look what happened
Speaker 4: in Gaza. In my view, is Hamas and the extreme
Speaker 4: elements of Moss don't represent all the Palestinian people, and
Speaker 4: I think that it would be a mistake to for
Speaker 4: Israel to occupy Gaz again.
Speaker 3: Rick and Jeanie join us now with great uncertainty in
Speaker 3: Washington on this Monday. Rick, it's good to have you back.
Speaker 3: I'm curious your thoughts here, having heard just now from
Speaker 3: General depth Tula and knowing that the President could be
Speaker 3: in country in Israel within just a couple of days,
Speaker 3: is that the right move for him to make now?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm afraid the President doesn't have a lot of
Speaker 8: great choices. And that's one of the reasons I think
Speaker 8: you see Secretary Blinken playing shuttle diplomacy running back and forth,
Speaker 8: is because time is really the one thing that is
Speaker 8: the most i would say hardest resource to grab. There's
Speaker 8: no question that the Israelis are going to go into Gaza,
Speaker 8: and what format comes in, as General Deptula talked about,
Speaker 8: is just a way for them to accomplish their goal
Speaker 8: short term and mid term, maybe not long term. And
Speaker 8: so that's going to happen, and the President may be there,
Speaker 8: he may not be there at the time it does,
Speaker 8: but it's utter disregard for the president's schedule. They're going
Speaker 8: to do that on a military clock that gives them
Speaker 8: the best advantage they can to limit casualties, both on
Speaker 8: the side of the Israeli military and also on the
Speaker 8: side of civilians in Gaza. So that's a clock that's
Speaker 8: just you know, totally separate than the presidents. And then
Speaker 8: you also have Iran and Egypt, two really important players,
Speaker 8: one negative, one positive that the President is talking to
Speaker 8: as much as Israel, and he's giving a warning to
Speaker 8: the Iranians by going there that if they want to
Speaker 8: broaden this conflict, they're going to have to deal with
Speaker 8: the United States and trying to give some kind of
Speaker 8: a bridge to the Egyptians, who play an incredibly important
Speaker 8: role in getting aid into Gaza to offset some of
Speaker 8: the humanitarian problems. So this is a really high priority,
Speaker 8: and it's only the President of United States who can
Speaker 8: actually effectuate change that's positive in this regard.
Speaker 3: Well, that's pretty remarkable. The optics would be amazing Genie.
Speaker 3: Depending on where you stand on this whole issue, though,
Speaker 3: could also be challenging for Joe Biden going into a
Speaker 3: re election cycle. His message do not occupy Gaza was
Speaker 3: heard loudly last evening on sixty Minutes. Why does he
Speaker 3: have to show up in person?
Speaker 9: You know, he doesn't have to, but I think he
Speaker 9: is going to try, provided that they can maintain his security,
Speaker 9: and is of course the timing of when they go
Speaker 9: in with boots on the ground and Tadaza. You know,
Speaker 9: it is a difficult security challenge number one, But I
Speaker 9: do think if he's able to securely go over there,
Speaker 9: he will and should. That said, I was struck by
Speaker 9: his tone on sixty Minutes last night. The President has
Speaker 9: given full throated support to Israel. He maintains that, and
Speaker 9: by the same token, we heard him walking this very
Speaker 9: very fine line last night and saying things like everybody
Speaker 9: knows that all Palestinians don't support Commis extremism, and you know,
Speaker 9: the reality is we don't know if Israel knows that.
Speaker 9: We don't know where he is getting that kind of data.
Speaker 9: There's not public opinion polling, for instance, going on, nor
Speaker 9: should there be, So he is reflecting what we are
Speaker 9: hearing increasingly. We saw the New York Times ab ed
Speaker 9: saying Israel can defend itself and uphold its value. We
Speaker 9: saw former Obama administration officials come out, and I was
Speaker 9: struck by an ADL official just yesterday saying that he's
Speaker 9: concerned that as Israel moves forward, world opinion will turn
Speaker 9: against it. And that's a concern not only for Israel,
Speaker 9: but for Joe Biden and the United States as well.
Speaker 9: So I think the President is very clearly making the
Speaker 9: case that while he has full throated support for Israel,
Speaker 9: he's deeply concerned about the civilians and Israel should be
Speaker 9: very careful not to get in a quagmire in the
Speaker 9: West Bank or in sorry, in Gaza like they were
Speaker 9: prior to two thousand and five. So it is very
Speaker 9: difficult argument for him to make at a very challenging
Speaker 9: time as he's facing a re election bid.
Speaker 3: Gaza's Health Ministry Rick says at least twelve hundred Palestinians
Speaker 3: have been trapped under rubble from Ukrainian from Ukrainian forgive me,
Speaker 3: from Israeli airstrikes into Gaza. Those are the types of
Speaker 3: headlines that could challenge the president on a trip like this.
Speaker 8: Now, no question, this is going to be a very
Speaker 8: difficult pr environment. As Genie says, the President has got
Speaker 8: this dual track where not only does he have to
Speaker 8: be commander in chief in president United States, but he's
Speaker 8: got a run for election and so this is not
Speaker 8: without its risks politically. That being said, he has some
Speaker 8: repair work to be done on commander in chief. There's
Speaker 8: no question he took a hit when the US withdrew
Speaker 8: from Afghanistan and his leadership was questioned because of the chaos.
Speaker 8: So if this can somehow help prepare that image, it's
Speaker 8: probably a gamble worth taking. That being said, as you
Speaker 8: point out, Joe, there are a lot of casualties with
Speaker 8: civilians in Gaza, that's only an amount, and as Geni said,
Speaker 8: that could put additional pressure on the Israelis. But all
Speaker 8: of this is predicated on Israeli getting the necessary accomplishments
Speaker 8: of their tasks, their priorities in Gaza, and I thought
Speaker 8: General Deptula did a excellent job of articulating what their
Speaker 8: military objectives would be.
Speaker 3: This is becoming an issue on the Republican campaign trail.
Speaker 3: As you might well, expect Mike Pence, we stand with Israel,
Speaker 3: making the point Ron DeSantis no moral equivalents. Nikki Haley
Speaker 3: is well speaking over the weekend here she is.
Speaker 10: Whether it was burned bodies, whether it was women that
Speaker 10: was raped, whether it were people being dragged down the
Speaker 10: streets of Gaza. I know you saw it, but did
Speaker 10: you hear it? Did you hear what they were saying
Speaker 10: when they were dragging those bodies down the street, because
Speaker 10: they were saying death to Israel, death to America. That's
Speaker 10: what they do, that's how they think. That is why
Speaker 10: Israel needs to eliminate Hamas once and for all.
Speaker 3: It's pretty heavy stuff here in Genie. We've gotten to
Speaker 3: the point where the president Joe Biden, sounds exactly like
Speaker 3: the Republican candidates for president. Do you agree?
Speaker 9: I do, with one glaring exception, which is the leader,
Speaker 9: as the money in the polls show, Donald Trump. I mean,
Speaker 9: he is out posting things which make you really have
Speaker 9: to take a step back and say is he equipped
Speaker 9: to lead? I don't know a city council at this point.
Speaker 9: He's talking about support for Israel after attacking bab Net
Speaker 9: and Yahoo. In the hours after this atrocity, and after
Speaker 9: claiming his blah is smart, he's talking about supporting Israel
Speaker 9: and tying it to the stolen twenty twenty election. That
Speaker 9: is what he's talking about. So I totally agree with you, Joe,
Speaker 9: except as it pertains to the foreign ahead leader on
Speaker 9: that side, which is still Donald Trump, and nothing crazy
Speaker 9: that he has said, and it has gotten to crazy
Speaker 9: gotten there. It's been there a while, but it is
Speaker 9: clear in the wake of this that nothing that he
Speaker 9: says has dampered his support in the polls. And that's
Speaker 9: got to be a concern for any thinking, caring rep Republican,
Speaker 9: somebody who looks at what's happened at these atrocities and
Speaker 9: scratches their head and says, is this man really talking
Speaker 9: about the stolen election from twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: We've only got a minute here, Rick. Are you surprised
Speaker 3: we're not hearing more criticism from all of the Republican
Speaker 3: candidates about Donald Trump as Genie's referring. Remember last week
Speaker 3: bb let us down he said Hamas is smart.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Look, I think these Republicans are criticizing Trump on the stump.
Speaker 8: I don't think the press is really reporting it because
Speaker 8: they have such an affection for the crazy stuff, as
Speaker 8: Genie says that Donald Trump says that's going to make
Speaker 8: news when the more sane and sober comments being made
Speaker 8: by Republican presidential candidates other than Trump really go unattended to.
Speaker 8: I think everybody endorses what Nikki Haley said and the
Speaker 8: quotes that you played.
Speaker 7: Except for Donald Trump.
Speaker 8: That being said, I don't think anything Donald Trump says
Speaker 8: has any bearing on the outcome of the crisis today
Speaker 8: in the Middle other than the fear that many people
Speaker 8: have in the Republican Party and in the Democratic Party
Speaker 8: that if he becomes the nominee the party I'm potentially president,
Speaker 8: all that could change overnight.
Speaker 3: Well, I'll refer back to what Ron de Santis said
Speaker 3: last week following the comments from Donald Trump quote, it
Speaker 3: has absurd that anyone, much less simone running for president,
Speaker 3: which who was now to attack our friend in ally Israel,
Speaker 3: much less praise Hesbola terrorists as very smart.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us
Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern.
Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg
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Speaker 3: High noon Tuesday. That's when Jim Jordan will force a vote.
Speaker 3: The reporting coming out of CNN right now, the Republican
Speaker 3: nominee for House Speaker, the chair of the Judiciary Committee,
Speaker 3: Jim Jordan's going to force this thing high noon tomorrow,
Speaker 3: like something out of a Western even though he apparently
Speaker 3: does not have the votes, or does he or will he.
Speaker 3: Great reporting today from Steven Dennis, Laura Lidfann, Eric Wasson
Speaker 3: our Congress team on the terminal, GOP's Jordan picks up
Speaker 3: critical support for House speakership. It's really anyone's guess where
Speaker 3: he is in the whip count right now, though, which
Speaker 3: is something we'll talk to Mick mulvaney about next hour.
Speaker 3: Let's reassemble the panel though. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano
Speaker 3: joined Bloomberg Politics contributors as we consider what's about to
Speaker 3: happen here. Looks like he got Mike Rodgers. That's what
Speaker 3: Jody says. Rick, is Jim Jordan the next Speaker of
Speaker 3: the House.
Speaker 8: You know, I think it's a hard flog for him.
Speaker 8: You know, he started out this process losing eighty one
Speaker 8: vote to Austin Scott, who's Austin Scott, right. I mean,
Speaker 8: you know, and he's been trying to peel it back
Speaker 8: since then, and some through cajoling and deal making, but
Speaker 8: also some through threats and a little bit of extortion
Speaker 8: from Fox News host Sean Hannity. This has been a
Speaker 8: very divisive race, and so I don't think he's there.
Speaker 8: Everything I've heard is he's still twenty thirty votes short.
Speaker 8: Maybe that is a long way from being speaker.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you make of Sean Hannity? Believe it
Speaker 3: was one of his producers sending letters to those who
Speaker 3: are on the fence you need to find out why
Speaker 3: they may not support Jim Jordan. It's a pretty interesting
Speaker 3: tactic from a Fox News host.
Speaker 9: It absolutely is. And you know, this is the reality
Speaker 9: is that we've always said, we said it last week,
Speaker 9: the faster Jim Jordan gets this on the floor, what
Speaker 9: they want to do is try to really arm twist
Speaker 9: folks into making a public vote with the threat that
Speaker 9: their constituents will be so upset if they don't go
Speaker 9: in the direction of somebody who's supported by Donald Trump
Speaker 9: and by social conservatives and by Fox News hosts, that
Speaker 9: they will then primary them. And that is what we're
Speaker 9: really hearing. It's obviously a stick that they can use,
Speaker 9: and you know, so we'll see if that is successful.
Speaker 9: Another big get looks to be Ann Wagner firmly opposed now.
Speaker 9: Some reporting says she is in Jim Jordan's champ now,
Speaker 9: so that is a big get for him as well.
Speaker 9: We keep appearing to Rick's point, you know, between maybe
Speaker 9: a dozen to twenty maybe more or less are still
Speaker 9: strongly opposed. But it was fifty five on Friday when
Speaker 9: they left for the weekend, so he's got a long
Speaker 9: way to go. And you know, I think the question
Speaker 9: we all have to ask ourselves is is this a
Speaker 9: party at this point that really really wants to govern
Speaker 9: or are they more comfortable in the minority be in
Speaker 9: the opposition? Because we are on day what twelve thirteen
Speaker 9: of this thing and this still has no end in sight.
Speaker 9: They're going to go to the floor noon tomorrow. Who
Speaker 9: knows what will happen there. We're hearing his opponents, Jordan's
Speaker 9: opponents may put somebody up, but they're not even giving
Speaker 9: a name, so who knows who that would be. It's
Speaker 9: embarrassing and it's looking to be like a caucus that
Speaker 9: does not want to govern and doesn't really enjoy being
Speaker 9: in the majority.
Speaker 3: I'm really taken by this letter or this email from
Speaker 3: Sean Hannity's producer here, Rick, you mentioned at Axios got
Speaker 3: their hands on this Stephanie from Hannity's show Fox News.
Speaker 3: It says, sources tell Hannity Representative fill in the blank
Speaker 3: is not supporting Jim Jordan for Speaker. Can you please
Speaker 3: let me know if this is accurate. It then goes
Speaker 3: on to say, if true, Hannity would like to know
Speaker 3: why during a war breaking up between Israel and hamas
Speaker 3: with the war in Ukraine, with wide open borders, with
Speaker 3: a budget unfinished, why would Rep. Fill in the blank
Speaker 3: be against Rep. Jim Jordan for Speaker. I'm not even
Speaker 3: halfway through this thing, and they said deadlines reply on it.
Speaker 3: I think, my gosh, I've been clearly under using Matt
Speaker 3: Shirley and the other bookers and producers here, Rick. Is
Speaker 3: this a new tactic that we should get used to?
Speaker 8: Yeah, Joe, you should be lobbying for the next Speaker
Speaker 8: of the House. You should pick a couple of bills
Speaker 8: you like and start warning these guys that they'll be
Speaker 8: a wrath from the Bloomberg Radio Show sound on if
Speaker 8: they don't pull their weight. Yeah, no, Look, this is
Speaker 8: like intrusion into the public domain. I think that they
Speaker 8: need to be registered as lobbyists if they're going to
Speaker 8: be a lobby in the House of Representatives. And by
Speaker 8: the way, I think it actually backfar. Everybody I heard
Speaker 8: from this weekend who've gotten or seen that letter were
Speaker 8: very upset that he is getting himself in the middle
Speaker 8: of this race. So you know, be careful what you
Speaker 8: ask for, you may just get it. And that's I'm
Speaker 8: sure Jordan is scratching his head, going, who call Hannity?
Speaker 8: Why is he doing this?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Wow, I don't know. By the way, our booker,
Speaker 3: Matt Shirley Genie says he's too busy, So I guess
Speaker 3: that's not going to start any time soon. But so
Speaker 3: what do you make of forcing the vote at noon tomorrow?
Speaker 3: Is that not a fool's Errand after fifteen rounds with
Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy.
Speaker 9: Yeah, Matt is much busier than those bookers at Fox
Speaker 9: for sure. And you know, I don't actually think it's
Speaker 9: a fool's Errand if you are Jim Jordan, this is
Speaker 9: your path to the speakership. You don't have another path.
Speaker 9: You have to get this public. You have to make
Speaker 9: people take a vote, and you have to threaten that
Speaker 9: if they don't vote for you, they're going to be primary.
Speaker 9: You know, what we are seeing is a wholesale change
Speaker 9: in the way we do American politics. I mean, it's
Speaker 9: not that long ago that this was, you know, something
Speaker 9: where party leadership would really have the power. Now that
Speaker 9: power is being outsourced to people who can get their
Speaker 9: name in the media, social and traditional visa v people
Speaker 9: like bookers and producers on shows that their constituents watch.
Speaker 9: That's a change. And to Rick's point, maybe these folks
Speaker 9: need to now have to register as lobbyists for the
Speaker 9: US Congress. This is where we're headed.
Speaker 3: Wow, Actually, well that might actually work for a couple producers.
Speaker 3: Here's Bill Heizenga. The Republicans spoke with us on Friday,
Speaker 3: right when they learn they're all going home for the week.
Speaker 11: Jim Jordan has some work he's got to do. He's
Speaker 11: got to get in front of those people who are
Speaker 11: objecting about it. Personally. I had put in an amendment
Speaker 11: to our to our conference rules that would have required
Speaker 11: us to reach to seventeen before we go to the floor.
Speaker 3: And that's the weird part here, Rick, what do you
Speaker 3: make of this going to the floor without actually knowing
Speaker 3: what's going to happen? Is that a strategy at noon tomorrow?
Speaker 8: Well, I've got whiplash. I don't know about you, Joe,
Speaker 8: but like you know, Jim Jordan's like starts out saying, oh, no,
Speaker 8: I'm not going to run for speaker. Oh well, I'll
Speaker 8: consider it, depends on what the caucus wants. And then
Speaker 8: it's like, I'll run for speaker, but only if the
Speaker 8: caucus gives you two seventeen before we get out. And
Speaker 8: then that changed again to put me on the floor
Speaker 8: tomorrow and force everybody to vote one way or another.
Speaker 8: I mean, I'm sorry, I'm exhausted, my back hurts, my
Speaker 8: neck is twisted.
Speaker 7: I mean Jim Jordan.
Speaker 8: Has had more positions in the last five days, then
Speaker 8: then well I won't even say who has a lot
Speaker 8: of positions. So bottom line, this is the act of
Speaker 8: a man who doesn't have the votes. He's going to
Speaker 8: try and pressure the floor, and I think that's everybody's strategy.
Speaker 8: Let him hang out there. He's got to lose on
Speaker 8: the floor. In order to clear the way for another candidate,
Speaker 8: and I think there are plenty of members who could
Speaker 8: garner that kind of support.
Speaker 3: Wow, not a very hopeful Rick Davis.
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the
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Speaker 3: Congressman Jim Jordan spent the weekend twisting arms, but he
Speaker 3: does not have the votes to be speaker yet. As
Speaker 3: lawmakers returned to Washington today with a vote on the
Speaker 3: speaker expected at high noon tomorrow, we'll get the latest
Speaker 3: from Capitol Hill and Kaylee Lines Ahead, we'll discuss with
Speaker 3: Mick Mulvaney, the co founder of the Freedom Caucus, former
Speaker 3: acting Chief of Staff, and the Trump White House back
Speaker 3: for his weekly conversation. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Join
Speaker 3: now by Kaylee Lions. It's good to see you. I
Speaker 3: hold the letter in my hands. Dear colleague, letter not
Speaker 3: a dear John, A dear colleague Jim Jordan's stationary. It's
Speaker 3: very lengthy. You know, I feel like this could be
Speaker 3: a pretty tight pitch considering everything that we've heard. Yeah,
Speaker 3: first to the principles that unite us as Republicans, the
Speaker 3: role of speaker bringing all Republicans together, no measure of
Speaker 3: what we can achieve for the American people. This is
Speaker 3: the same Jim Jordan who told us that he did
Speaker 3: not want to run for speaker.
Speaker 12: Right, Yes, that was two weeks ago, about and what
Speaker 12: a difference two weeks.
Speaker 3: Do you imagine that was two weeks ago. Now he's
Speaker 3: essentially forcing a vote. This is kind of a big
Speaker 3: development here CNN. He's forcing a vote at high noon tomorrow,
Speaker 3: So we're going to find out pretty quick how many
Speaker 3: votes he's got.
Speaker 12: Yeah, and it seems like he has more, at least
Speaker 12: secured than he had on Friday when more than fifty
Speaker 12: Republicans voted by secret ballot and said they would not
Speaker 12: support him for speaker. And yet he's picked up some
Speaker 12: pretty key individuals just in the last twenty four hours.
Speaker 12: Mike Rogers and Wagner can calvert all of these names
Speaker 12: seem like they may be building some momentum for him.
Speaker 12: But really it is going to come down to the
Speaker 12: math here is it enough to get the.
Speaker 3: Gal We spoke with Bill Hayseenga on Friday. This was
Speaker 3: right after they had all learned they were going home
Speaker 3: for the weekend.
Speaker 12: He didn't have a slight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did not love. But remember this idea of
Speaker 3: having this figured out before you go to the floor, right,
Speaker 3: a cloture vote, if you will, a nominating vote that
Speaker 3: would mirror the number of votes needed to actually do
Speaker 3: this on the floor. That never happened, Haiseenga thing it should.
Speaker 11: Jim Jordan has some work he's got to do. He's
Speaker 11: got to get in front of those people who are
Speaker 11: objecting about it personally. I had put in an amendment
Speaker 11: to our conference rules that would have required us to
Speaker 11: reach to seventeen before we go to the floor. That
Speaker 11: is sort of maybe the spirit of this in many
Speaker 11: ways that that isn't.
Speaker 12: A formal rule.
Speaker 11: But guess what, we're not going to have any help
Speaker 11: from the Democrats, and not that we were necessarily expecting any,
Speaker 11: but we have got to come together as the Republicans
Speaker 11: to find two hundred and seventeen votes.
Speaker 3: Ah to seventeen. We kept hearing all last week that
Speaker 3: no one can get to seventeen. Yes, that may still
Speaker 3: be the case, by the way.
Speaker 12: And we will find out more come tomorrow afternoon.
Speaker 3: Joe, you think Mick mulvaney would go to the floor
Speaker 3: if he were nominated speaker without knowing he had the votes.
Speaker 12: I don't know. Should we ask Mick?
Speaker 3: Because I could see both sides here. I think kind
Speaker 3: of lives on the edge a little bit. I think
Speaker 3: that he could actually be the one to go for it,
Speaker 3: but I also feel like he might be smarter than
Speaker 3: that and want something to count on. Nick, why not
Speaker 3: make that adjustment, that rule change so you know that
Speaker 3: when c Span turns the lights on, this is going
Speaker 3: to look good for Republicans.
Speaker 13: I'm trying to figure out the comment about I'm too
Speaker 13: smart to do it, so that means if I go
Speaker 13: to the floor, I'd be doing something stupid. So maybe
Speaker 13: I shouldn't say I would do that. I think the
Speaker 13: dynamic is a bunch of different.
Speaker 3: Is it a strategy movement?
Speaker 13: Yeah, the strategy. It is a strategy, and it's not
Speaker 13: a bad strategy. It's a real gutsy kind of strategy.
Speaker 13: Is actually what it says is, look if I'm nominated
Speaker 13: and I have no interest in the job. So I'm
Speaker 13: just using this to make a sim If you're nominated
Speaker 13: and the votes, you don't have the votes in private,
Speaker 13: but you think that some people might not have the
Speaker 13: guts to vote against.
Speaker 7: You on the floor, then yeah, you go to the floor.
Speaker 13: And if you got Donald Trump on your side threatening
Speaker 13: to prime those folks, maybe that pushes you to go
Speaker 13: to the floor a little bit. Look, I asked an
Speaker 13: interesting question today of a friend of mine on the Hill.
Speaker 13: I said, Look, I know that Matt Gates is crazy
Speaker 13: enough and stubborn enough and just bizarre enough to sit
Speaker 13: on the floor for fifteen votes and be the vote
Speaker 13: against Kevin McCarthy because I saw him do it in January.
Speaker 13: Is Don Bacon the same kind of person? Does Don
Speaker 13: Bacon have that same sort of different, strange gear to
Speaker 13: where he would be willing to sit on the floor
Speaker 13: for fifteen votes and vote against Jim Jordan.
Speaker 7: I don't think that he is.
Speaker 13: He's a lot nicer and more reasonable, probably a lot
Speaker 13: brighter than Matt Gates, But I don't think he's got
Speaker 13: that kind of that bizarre approach to you know, burn
Speaker 13: the place down or else Don is a reasonable guy,
Speaker 13: and Jim maybe counting on those folks who are reasonable
Speaker 13: to say I won't vote be in private, but taking them,
Speaker 13: you know, sort of calling them out and seeing if
Speaker 13: they got the votes they gots to vote against him
Speaker 13: on the floor.
Speaker 7: If there's a strategy, that's the strategy.
Speaker 12: Okay, So that's the strategy. It's just as whether not
Speaker 12: it's one that's gonna work. Mick, do you think Jim
Speaker 12: Jordan can pull this off? Ultimately?
Speaker 13: I would have said no three or four hours ago.
Speaker 13: Then he picked up Mike Rodgers and Ken Calvert, who's
Speaker 13: not a name that's very well widely known outside of Washington,
Speaker 13: but a very influential member of sort of the spending
Speaker 13: wing of the party. You've got these two groups, right,
Speaker 13: You've got the military folks Mike Rodgers and Ad Wagner,
Speaker 13: and you've got the folks like to spend a lot
Speaker 13: of money like Ken Calvert and to Ada Wagner and
Speaker 13: Mike and Mike Rodgers.
Speaker 7: I didn't think he'd get him.
Speaker 13: And when he when it was announced they were supporting him.
Speaker 13: That that changed the analysis in sort of in my
Speaker 13: internal math that if he can get those folks he
Speaker 13: might be able to get the votes. Here's the first
Speaker 13: question I asked myself, what did he have to give
Speaker 13: to Ken Calvert and Mike Rogers to get their support?
Speaker 13: And is that the type of giveaway that then turns
Speaker 13: off some of the folks on the far right, for
Speaker 13: whom Jim is not nearly conservative enough. I'm going back
Speaker 13: to the Matt Gates anarchist the party. So I honestly,
Speaker 13: no one knows, and it's just different than it was
Speaker 13: three four hours ago. Through four hours ago said he
Speaker 13: does not have the votes, not going to get the votes.
Speaker 13: It looks like he might have made some progress here
Speaker 13: and might be moving in the direction of getting to seventeen.
Speaker 3: You know Jim Jordan better than just about anyone, I
Speaker 3: would say, Mick, You've founded the Freedom Caucus with him.
Speaker 3: You certainly know him as a lawmaker, you know him
Speaker 3: as an individual. There's been some tough questions about his
Speaker 3: past over the past couple of days. They were all
Speaker 3: aired out on Sunday Morning television. He's accused of covering
Speaker 3: up sexual assault allegations when he was a wrestling coach.
Speaker 3: Liz Cheney says he was the closest thing to January sixth,
Speaker 3: the conspiracy on January sixth that you could get in
Speaker 3: a lawmaker on Capitol Hill and should not be trusted
Speaker 3: with this job. How do you react to those.
Speaker 13: A there's a couple different questions at Liz Change. No
Speaker 13: one hears what Liz Cheney says. I hate to be
Speaker 13: that blunt about it, but no one listens to her.
Speaker 13: She was a three or four term member of the
Speaker 13: House and she's out now. So if her last name
Speaker 13: wasn't Chaining, nobody would be talking about her on the
Speaker 13: other issues. You know, I know Jim fairly well, and
Speaker 13: nothing that I ever heard the allegations related to the
Speaker 13: things that happened at that school twenty thirty years ago
Speaker 13: have anything to do in my mind, with the Jim
Speaker 13: Jordan that I know. And I also know this is
Speaker 13: that politicians of both parties know that it's really easy
Speaker 13: to make allegations against sitting against sitting members of Congress,
Speaker 13: and we usually don't pay attention to those sorts of
Speaker 13: allegations because people make them all the time until they
Speaker 13: rise the level of criminal investigations, ethics charges, that kind
Speaker 13: of stuff.
Speaker 7: And I don't think that ever happened with Jim. So
Speaker 7: all I know is I know him.
Speaker 13: I remember this topic coming up, I don't know, five
Speaker 13: years ago and immediately dismissing in my own mind, and
Speaker 13: I think it would o weigh fairly quickly. So I
Speaker 13: don't I'm not concerned there's anything there. And if Jim
Speaker 13: Jordan wasn't being considered for speaker, my guess is nobody
Speaker 13: else would care about it either.
Speaker 12: Okay, so that's on that subject. But Mike, returning to
Speaker 12: this subject of January sixth, this isn't something that only
Speaker 12: Liz Cheney talks about. You yourself have been very outspoken
Speaker 12: against your former boss, former President Donald Trump, because of
Speaker 12: the events on January sixth, And if Jim Jordan was
Speaker 12: close to that, if he was one of those denying
Speaker 12: the results of the twenty twenty election and trying to
Speaker 12: stop that process, why would you feel any differently about him?
Speaker 7: Well, I don't feel differently about him.
Speaker 13: When you go back to you're right about the January
Speaker 13: sixth thing, right, And if that's what Jim's leadership becomes,
Speaker 13: If Jim is down there trying to pitch people on
Speaker 13: elect me speaker, and I'm really going to dig into
Speaker 13: the twenty twenty election. My guess is that's a fool's
Speaker 13: errand and he doesn't have a chance. If he's down
Speaker 13: then on telling people, Look, I want to go forward.
Speaker 13: We have to pass the spending bill. It will be conservative.
Speaker 13: We have to pass support for Israel, it will be
Speaker 13: very generous. I do want to continue the investigations in
Speaker 13: the Biden family. If that's the message that he's selling,
Speaker 13: I can see him getting someplace. If he's down there
Speaker 13: selling well, I think we need to revisit twenty twenty.
Speaker 13: He doesn't have a chance, so I don't show that
Speaker 13: answers your question not But I the reason I mentioned
Speaker 13: Liz Cheney's again that she is not voting. She doesn't
Speaker 13: really know a lot of the folks within the conservative
Speaker 13: winging the party, so it's very strange that her nanks
Speaker 13: pop I started name pop up on Drudge Report, and
Speaker 13: my immediate reaction was why, But maybe the people say
Speaker 13: the same thing about me.
Speaker 3: Well, she helped the co chair of the committee investigating
Speaker 3: January sixth, so obviously she knows a little bit about
Speaker 3: this mix. She tweeted that Jim Jordan urged that Mike
Speaker 3: Pence refused to count lawful electoral votes. If ours nominate
Speaker 3: Jordan to be Speaker, they will be abandoning the constitution,
Speaker 3: they will lose the House majority, and they will deserve
Speaker 3: to take the name off the message. Do you disagree
Speaker 3: with what she wrote?
Speaker 7: It's hard for me to take the name off the message.
Speaker 13: But I always get interested in people who lose elections,
Speaker 13: whether they be Republicans or Democrats, tell Republicans how to
Speaker 13: win elections. So but I struggle with that. Look, I
Speaker 13: don't think that Jim Jordan's activities. Again, let's be clear,
Speaker 13: I quit over January sixth. I am not defending January sixth,
Speaker 13: But any way, shape or form infacted the opposite are.
Speaker 13: I continued to condemn it anytime anybody wants me to.
Speaker 13: But I don't think that's what this race is about.
Speaker 13: I really don't. I think it's the race is about
Speaker 13: the next three or four months, or age actually six
Speaker 13: or eight weeks. How do you get through a funding
Speaker 13: issue for the government between now in the middle of November.
Speaker 13: How do you deal with supporting Israel? What do you
Speaker 13: do about Ukraine? Those are the three big issues that
Speaker 13: Congress has to deal with personally, and you guys haven't
Speaker 13: asked this question, but I'll answer it anyway. I can't
Speaker 13: believe Jim wants the job because I don't know how
Speaker 13: you pass a funding bill that isn't bipartisan. And if
Speaker 13: a bipartisan funding bill cost cost Kevin McCarthy's job, I
Speaker 13: don't know how it costs whoever the next speaker is
Speaker 13: his or her job.
Speaker 7: So again, if.
Speaker 13: People want to look back at January sixth, and if
Speaker 13: Liz Chaney wants to see that, that's great.
Speaker 7: I'm trying to figure out what happens in the next
Speaker 7: forty five days.
Speaker 12: Well, also in the next forty five days, Mick. Theoretically
Speaker 12: the impeachment inquiry, which Jim Jordan was helping lead, will continue.
Speaker 12: And I wonder what a speaker Jordan potentially would mean
Speaker 12: for those individuals and districts that Biden won in twenty twenty,
Speaker 12: those vulnerable Republicans. Do you realistically think they can go
Speaker 12: to the floor and allow him to get the gavel?
Speaker 12: What would it mean for them?
Speaker 13: I think, first of all, I don't think he can
Speaker 13: be in charge of the investigation if he is the speaker,
Speaker 13: So they've got to have somebody else to back to
Speaker 13: back up the same is true, by the way, if
Speaker 13: and I still think there's a likely chance that Patrick
Speaker 13: McHenry's role as the interim speaker is somehow extended for
Speaker 13: a period of time, and if that happens, he might
Speaker 13: not be able to function as the House Financial Services
Speaker 13: Committee chairman as well. So if Jim becomes the speaker,
Speaker 13: they have to find somebody else through investigation. What happens
Speaker 13: from there, Kaylee, I think depends on what the evidence
Speaker 13: is if they find Keep in mind, the Democrats had
Speaker 13: an an impeachment inquiry on Donald Trump for weeks before
Speaker 13: they started the actual impeachment. They didn't have the evidence
Speaker 13: until Trump gave them the transcript of the phone conversation
Speaker 13: with Zelenski. But for that they probably don't have the
Speaker 13: ability to impeach him on the floor. I think the
Speaker 13: same is true of the Republicans. They're going through the
Speaker 13: inquiry now. If they find evidence that justifies an impeachment,
Speaker 13: then they go that route. But if they don't find anything,
Speaker 13: I don't think they can move forward. So I think
Speaker 13: the only thing that changes theirs who's running the investigation
Speaker 13: of Jim Jordan's speaker. I don't think he can run
Speaker 13: the investigation I have to.
Speaker 3: Go back to our conversation with Jim Jordan on the
Speaker 3: second of October. Kaylee already referred to it. Nick. We were,
Speaker 3: you know exactly where we were and the balcony off
Speaker 3: the cannon rotunda. It was the day the government was
Speaker 3: supposed to be closed, and this all came up again
Speaker 3: with who wants to be speaker here?
Speaker 14: But I do not support that. I think Kevin McCarthy's
Speaker 14: done a good job. I mean, we told the American
Speaker 14: people that we would you pass legislation rid of the
Speaker 14: eighty seven thousand IRS agents. We told the American people
Speaker 14: we'd pass the Printal Bill rights.
Speaker 3: We did that.
Speaker 14: We told the American people we would pass legislation to
Speaker 14: deal with the energy problem. We told the American people
Speaker 14: we would pass the toughest border security security, immigration enforcement
Speaker 14: legislation in history, and we did that.
Speaker 3: He said he wanted Kevin to be speaker. When I
Speaker 3: asked him directly again, he said, no, I do not
Speaker 3: want to be speaker, Mick. Do you believe that your
Speaker 3: old colleague from the Freedom Caucus, Jim Jordan, actually wants
Speaker 3: this job.
Speaker 7: No, I think he wants Kevin McCarthy to be the job.
Speaker 7: And go back to doing to leading the investigations. I
Speaker 7: think he's here, he's where he is now because what
Speaker 7: else who else is there?
Speaker 13: I mean, when you get down to the next level,
Speaker 13: you talk about people who might have only been in
Speaker 13: Congress a couple of years.
Speaker 7: You don't know about their conservatives, So you would.
Speaker 3: Be a reluctant speaker in your view.
Speaker 7: I think so.
Speaker 13: And I gotta think Joe I got to think that
Speaker 13: he's got to deal with the far far right way
Speaker 13: with those anarchists. And again they're not conservative, they're populist anarchists.
Speaker 13: That's the Matt Gates crowd. So let's call him the
Speaker 13: anarchist wing, because they're not the freedom calls folks. He's
Speaker 13: got to have a deal with him and says, look,
Speaker 13: if I cut a bipartisan deal to open the government,
Speaker 13: are you going to try and get rid of me?
Speaker 13: At least he's got to have a handshake that they
Speaker 13: won't do that, because again, otherwise, what's the one lesson
Speaker 13: from Kevin McCarthy's experience. If you bring a bipartisan bill
Speaker 13: to the floor of the House, you are at risk
Speaker 13: of losing your speakership. That's a really easy message to
Speaker 13: sort of deliver and to comprehend. So unless Jim has
Speaker 13: has got a deal with those folks that I don't
Speaker 13: know about, that we don't know about, then he might
Speaker 13: be in the same the same position.
Speaker 7: Kevin has a couple of weeks from them.
Speaker 3: Nick mulvaney, always great to spend time. Did you say
Speaker 3: whether you think he's actually going to get this vote tomorrow?
Speaker 3: Did we hear.
Speaker 12: Engaged in the last three to four hours?
Speaker 3: Okay, so you think he's going to get this at
Speaker 3: noon tomorrow, Mick, I think his chances went from two
Speaker 3: to ten to six and ten. All right there, it
Speaker 3: is Mick mulvainy. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to
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