1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:06,479 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 2: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts. 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 3: Joe Biden may head to Israel this week. Welcome to 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 3: the fastest show in politics, as the President today cancels 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 3: a trip to Colorado ahead of an expected ground invasion 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 3: in Gaza. We're joined by retired Air Force General David Deptula, 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 3: who helped to write the book on drone strategy, spent 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,279 Speaker 3: thousands of hours flying over Afghanistan, and will be with 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 3: us here in just a moment on the next steps 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 3: for Israel. The US House still has no speaker. They're 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 3: going to try to change that. In the next couple 14 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 3: of days. We'll talk about Jim Jordan's full court press 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 3: with our signature panel Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and 16 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 3: Jeanie Shanzano. They're with us for the hour. Welcome to 17 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 3: the Monday edition of Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe Matthew 18 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 3: in Washington, where We've got a lot to learn this week, 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 3: not only of course, who will be the next speaker. 20 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 3: We'll see if we learn that this week. But of course, 21 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 3: what's going to happen next in Israel? With the headline 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 3: now in the terminal, Biden ways trip yes to Israel, 23 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 3: considering a trip as part of a global push to 24 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 3: prevent the war from spreading in the Middle East. He 25 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 3: appeared on sixty minutes last evening, not knowing at least 26 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 3: we didn't know that they would cancel a trip. The 27 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: President had planned today to visit Pueblo, Colorado, staying here 28 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 3: to manage issues at home, and could be on the 29 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 3: jet within days from what we're reading in reports here 30 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: on the terminal. President spoke, as I mentioned on sixty 31 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 3: minutes last evening with Scott Pelley about the war in Israel. 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 3: Do you believe that Hamas must be eliminated entirely? 33 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 4: Yes, I do, But there needs to be a Palestinian authority. 34 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 4: There needs to be a path to a Palestinian state. 35 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 3: A path to a Palestinian state. As we bring in 36 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 3: the voice of Jordan fae be In Bloomberg White House 37 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 3: reporter who's with us at the table to get things 38 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 3: started today. Jordan, it's great to see you. You've been 39 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: reporting on this obviously since the terror attack happened, and 40 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 3: now we're hearing reports that the president may actually get 41 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 3: on Air Force one to go to Israel. You know, 42 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 3: we talked about this, whether it was Florida, whether it 43 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 3: was Hawaii, about how a presidential visit can be very disruptive, 44 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 3: and I suspect that this would be a very difficult 45 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,080 Speaker 3: trip to plan. Do we think it'll happen. 46 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, it seems to be. There seems to be planning 47 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 5: going on for him to go. They haven't announced whether 48 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 5: that's official guest, but then pulling down that Colorado trip 49 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 5: today would indicate there's some serious planning going on. And yeah, 50 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 5: there's a lot of imperatives for Joe Biden to go, 51 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 5: but it will be taxing, you know, both on the 52 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 5: US sides getting a trip of that magnitude together on 53 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,119 Speaker 5: such a short timeline, and also the Israeli security services, 54 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 5: who obviously have a lot on their plate, you're, given 55 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 5: the nature of the conflict there. You know, in these visits, 56 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 5: you know, the president isn't usually on the ground for 57 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 5: a long time, but there's still a lot of security 58 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 5: that goes into it to make sure the president. 59 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 3: Says, I can't imagine the advanced planning here, and I 60 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,120 Speaker 3: suspect that it would be a relatively brief trip. What's 61 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 3: the purpose though, I mean, obviously we know for a 62 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 3: fact that Joe Biden's been in touch on a daily 63 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 3: basis with Benjaminett Yaho, the Secretary has been in touch 64 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 3: with Defense, their defense minister. Why does being in person matter? 65 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 5: Well, first of all, Israeli Prime Minister Benjaminette Yahoo invited 66 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 5: President Bien to visit Israel, and sot Yahoo obviously has 67 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 5: his purposes. He wants the sort of steal of approval 68 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 5: from the US President for whatever he's going to do 69 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 5: with this campaign against Hamas and Gasa. But for the 70 00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 5: US president, there's a couple of considerations to play here. 71 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 5: One is a diplomatic mission to make sure that whatever 72 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 5: offensive Israel decides to launch that they kind of stay 73 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 5: within downs, that they're limiting civilian casualties. And also to 74 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 5: send a signal to you know, Hamas hasbala Iran to 75 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 5: not get involved. Him showing up there would be a 76 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 5: powerful symbol of that. But there's also domestic politics at play. 77 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 5: This is an opportunity for President Biden to get out there, 78 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 5: you show some leadership on the world stage as he 79 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 5: ramps up his reelection bit. 80 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: Well, that makes sense. They made an ad out of 81 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 3: his trip to Ukraine, made him look like Tom Cruise 82 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 3: a mission impossibly have the aviators on the whole bit. 83 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 3: I suspect there's some campaigning inherently as part of this, 84 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 3: but to put your name on what's about to happen 85 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 3: is also part of this. Jordan listened to the President 86 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 3: from last evening on sixty minutes when he was asked 87 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 3: about protecting civilians and some of the carneage that could 88 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 3: follow an invasion, a ground invasion of Gaza. 89 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 4: I'm confident that Israel is going to act under the 90 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 4: major the rules of war. There's a standards that democratic 91 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 4: institutions and countries will go go by, and so I'm 92 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 4: confident that there's going to be an ability for the 93 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 4: innocence in Gaza to be able to have access to medicine, 94 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 4: food and water. 95 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 3: He talked about Israel's right to defend itself, but this 96 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: is something he's going to have to deal with. The 97 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 3: optics are not going to be great, obviously. Any ground 98 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 3: invasion in Gaza is going to be extremely difficult, will 99 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 3: come with heavy casualties, and he will have been there 100 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 3: potentially moments earlier. 101 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, listen, if he goes and then Israel the day after, 102 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 5: you know, launches a ground invasion and inflicts a large 103 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 5: number of civilian casualties, that will be a problem for 104 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 5: Joe Biden. But part of the reason he's going is 105 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 5: again to maybe discourage them from doing that, or at 106 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 5: least put some guardrails on. Like he said, you know, 107 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 5: let's follow the rules of war. Let's make sure to 108 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 5: limit civilian casualties. Let's target you know, hamas military political structure, 109 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 5: but let's you know, leave the innocent people who are 110 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 5: not a part of this to let go. And you know, again, 111 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 5: Israel is relying on US equipment here, and so there's 112 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 5: the implied tension there that, hey, if this goes off 113 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 5: the rails, you know, yeah, maybe down the road you're 114 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 5: not getting as much ammunition as you asked for. 115 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 3: Well, I think that's pretty smart, you know, you consider 116 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: the message that could be delivered, a message over strength 117 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 3: in person that could play well for the president politically 118 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 3: if it came to bear. But we'll have to find out, 119 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 3: of course. Jordan Fabian, great reporting and thank you as always, 120 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 3: Bloomberg White House reporter. I'm sure as soon as Jordan 121 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 3: knows about any potential trip to Israel, you'll see a 122 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 3: headline on the terminal within seconds here as we bring 123 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 3: in the voice of the General. I've been looking forward 124 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 3: to this as long as I have known that Lieutenant 125 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 3: David Deptula would be with US US Air Force retired, 126 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 3: a man who is instrumental not only in the ground 127 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 3: war over Afghanistan, but in positioning the Air Force to 128 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 3: make use of drones to the extent that we're seeing 129 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 3: now in Israel and also in Ukraine. General Deptula, welcome 130 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 3: back to Bloomberg. It's great to see you, sir. This 131 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 3: is going to be a very difficult mission for Israel, 132 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 3: which is why we've seen repeated air strikes in Gaza. 133 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 3: In fact, the terminal now reporting here at Bloomberg that 134 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 3: there are as many as twelve hundred people Palestinians under 135 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: rubble right now in Gaza. How much more of this 136 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 3: will we see before ground troops roll in? 137 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 6: Well, Joe, A couple of points right up front, And 138 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 6: I hate to get too complex too quick, but war's 139 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 6: a complex endeavor. And when speaking about war in this 140 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 6: particular conflict, one's got to define the objectives that are 141 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 6: being pursued at three different levels. That's strategic, operational, and tactical. 142 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 6: And tactics are what generally garnered the most attention, but 143 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 6: in reality you can only put tactics in context if 144 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 6: you understand the higher order military objectives. So you know, 145 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 6: we can start with the fact that Israel's stated strategic 146 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 6: objective is to eliminate Hamas's military capability. And what I 147 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 6: would tell you is that at the strategic level involves 148 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 6: kind of five major elements as they relate to Hamas. 149 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 6: First is the leadership. Then there are essential systems and processes. 150 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 6: There's the Hamas infrastructure, they're personnel, and then their weapons systems. 151 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 6: So each one of those elements or centers of gravity, 152 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 6: if you will, will be decomposed into operational level target sets, 153 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 6: and that's what the Israelis are in the process of doing, 154 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 6: if they haven't already done or have planned for many years. 155 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 6: And so there are a variety of examples of that 156 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 6: committed control facilities, communications, under essential systems and processes, there's electricity, money, food, 157 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 6: and so on and so forth. So then these are 158 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 6: broken down into specific targets. And here's where now we 159 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 6: get into the tactical level detail. And because of the 160 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 6: extensive use of tunnel to hide and conduct operations and 161 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 6: their entrances and exits being inside buildings, ground operations are 162 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:14,200 Speaker 6: near certainty that is going to draw Israel into the 163 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 6: ground on the ground to be able to find, locate 164 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 6: and destroy these facilities. So you know, that's a broad 165 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 6: brush overview of what the Israeli military is facing right now. 166 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:32,839 Speaker 3: Understood to what extent then can Israel continue to seek 167 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 3: advantage from the air. Obviously Hamas does not have an 168 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 3: air force, and it's not just fighter jets. I look 169 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,840 Speaker 3: to you as someone who brought forth the largest increase 170 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 3: in drone operations in air force history. The job that 171 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 3: we'll see over the next couple of days will be 172 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 3: very important. I think if I'm understanding you correctly to 173 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 3: what happens and what shape of ground invasion takes. 174 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 6: Right, and you raised an extraordinarily important point. And at 175 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 6: this point in time, remotely pottered aircraft, unmannerial vehicles, drones, 176 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 6: whatever you want to call them, have become an integral 177 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 6: part of any operation. 178 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 3: At the operational level. 179 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 6: The Israeli defense forces are truly taking an integrated approach 180 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 6: of AirLand, sea, information and cyber elements of which drones 181 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 6: will provide. And let me put it this way, they'll 182 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 6: play an extraordinarily important role. I mean, one of their 183 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 6: values is that they can provide twenty four to seven 184 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 6: observation of what's going on, in addition to carrying weapons 185 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 6: to be able to rapidly respond to any aggressive use 186 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:53,240 Speaker 6: of force or movement by Hamasa's. 187 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 7: Forces. 188 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 6: So they are completely integral to the operations. And you 189 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 6: heard earlier of some of the concerns with respect to weather. Well, 190 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 6: quite frankly, that's because they want to have the ability 191 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 6: to use drones to watch what's going on, observe movements, 192 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 6: help in targeting as well as the application of forced themselves. 193 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 3: You're a director of the Combined Air Operations Center for 194 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,960 Speaker 3: Operation Enduring Freedom over Afghanistan, and our listeners should know 195 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 3: you were also a principal attack planner for Operation Desert 196 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 3: Storms air campaign. And with someone who has over four 197 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 3: hundred air combat hours, what can you tell us about 198 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,679 Speaker 3: the challenges that Israel is facing now fighting an army 199 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 3: if you will, with no uniforms. It's of course not 200 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 3: an organized army interspersed with civilians in this densely populated area. 201 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 3: You've actually experienced conditions like this general. 202 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:02,280 Speaker 6: Yeah, the desert storm a conflict again to Rock was 203 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:04,880 Speaker 6: much more expansive. In other words, we're dealing with the 204 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 6: breath and depth of an entire country, and as was 205 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 6: the intensity. We're flying three thousand sorties a day over 206 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 6: twelve hundred and fifty actual attack sorties a day, which 207 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 6: is a lot of application of force. But one of 208 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 6: the challenges that the Israelis are facing is because this 209 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 6: is such a dense urban environment, and that's one of 210 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 6: the reasons that they need to conduct an integrated campaign, 211 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 6: capitalizing on what the air element brings to inform the 212 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 6: ground forces and naval forces to achieve the objectives that 213 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 6: I outlined. The other point I'd like to bring up 214 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 6: here of Joe that I don't see very much attention 215 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 6: paid to, and that's that it's very important to understand 216 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 6: that Hamas's use of civilians is human shields, and misuse 217 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 6: of protected sites like mosques and hospitals are war crimes 218 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 6: in and of themselves. 219 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: Now. 220 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 6: At the same time, it's important to note that even 221 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 6: if Hamas uses human. 222 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 3: Shields, which they are. 223 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 6: Israel Is still bound by the principles of proportionality and 224 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,359 Speaker 6: have to take all feasible precautions to minimize harm to civilians, 225 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 6: and they have a very strong history of doing that. 226 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 6: But it doesn't mean that they cannot strike targets because 227 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 6: of the presence of human shields. According to the Geneva Conventions, 228 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 6: attack is allowed if the potential damage to civilians is 229 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 6: not excessive in relation to the direct military advantage that's anticipated. 230 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 6: So I don't want to get too into legal ease, 231 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 6: but the presence of human shields do not prevent an attack, 232 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 6: even if the conducting that attack might have considerable media impact. 233 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: Well, that's awfully important for our listeners and our viewers 234 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 3: to know. General, you flew the F fifteen. As I mentioned, 235 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 3: you have hundreds of combat hours. That's a jet that 236 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 3: the Israelis fly, among others made here in the US. 237 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 3: We only have a minute left, General, I just wonder 238 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 3: if it's your view that this mission can be accomplished 239 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 3: without completely leveling Gaza. 240 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think you know. It's an extraordinarily challenging endeavor 241 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 6: that the Israelis are embarking upon, but it's one that 242 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 6: one needs to understand. Israel has fought limited wars with 243 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 6: Hamas in the past, and those simply have not succeeded. 244 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 6: So now they're faced with either overthrowing Hamas or rendering 245 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 6: it completely ineffective, and that is going to be very, 246 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 6: very challenging. But the Israeli defense forces or extraord nearly competent, 247 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 6: and they'll do everything they can to protect civilian protect civilians. 248 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 6: But at the same time, I think they're putting together 249 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 6: an integrated operation that will be very effective in eliminating Hamas. 250 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 6: And that's what they simply need to do, because Hamas's 251 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 6: actions have shown that they are pure evil and must 252 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 6: be eliminated. 253 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: Well, there you have it from someone with first hand experience, 254 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 3: Retired General David Deptula, It's great to see you, sir, 255 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 3: now the dean of the Mitchell Institute for Aerospace Studies 256 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 3: and again former Air Force Deputy Chief for Intelligence, Surveillance 257 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 3: and Reconnaissance along with former fighter pilot. 258 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. 259 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: Catch the program live weekdays at one Eastern. 260 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 3: On Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and. 261 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: The Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen live on 262 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York State Just say 263 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven. 264 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 3: Joe Biden could be on Air Force one on a 265 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 3: trip to Israel in just a matter of days. That's 266 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 3: the reporting now. As the National Security Council at the 267 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 3: White House says they have no trip to announce, our 268 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 3: reporting says that could take place in the next couple 269 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 3: of days. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. We thank you 270 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 3: for joining us on Bloomberg Sound On as we assemble 271 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 3: our panel. Rick Davis and Jeanie shanzena with us on 272 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 3: the Monday edition. Here as Anthony Blincoln turns up in 273 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 3: Israel again an unscheduled return. He spoke earlier this. 274 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: Morning, a. 275 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 4: Deep commitment to Israel's right, indeed its obligation to defend 276 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 4: itself and to defend its people. 277 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 2: And in that you have, you've always had the support 278 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: of the United States. 279 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 3: This again, following the interview last evening Joe Biden on 280 00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 3: sixty minutes making the case for America in defense and 281 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 3: support of Israel, though he also made news by talking 282 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: about a potential occupation he was asked about this by 283 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 3: Scott Pelly and Israeli occupation of Gaza. 284 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 4: I think it'd be a big mistake. Look what happened 285 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:20,159 Speaker 4: in Gaza. In my view, is Hamas and the extreme 286 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 4: elements of Moss don't represent all the Palestinian people, and 287 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 4: I think that it would be a mistake to for 288 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 4: Israel to occupy Gaz again. 289 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 3: Rick and Jeanie join us now with great uncertainty in 290 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 3: Washington on this Monday. Rick, it's good to have you back. 291 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,239 Speaker 3: I'm curious your thoughts here, having heard just now from 292 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 3: General depth Tula and knowing that the President could be 293 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 3: in country in Israel within just a couple of days, 294 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 3: is that the right move for him to make now? 295 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm afraid the President doesn't have a lot of 296 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 8: great choices. And that's one of the reasons I think 297 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 8: you see Secretary Blinken playing shuttle diplomacy running back and forth, 298 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 8: is because time is really the one thing that is 299 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 8: the most i would say hardest resource to grab. There's 300 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 8: no question that the Israelis are going to go into Gaza, 301 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 8: and what format comes in, as General Deptula talked about, 302 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 8: is just a way for them to accomplish their goal 303 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 8: short term and mid term, maybe not long term. And 304 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 8: so that's going to happen, and the President may be there, 305 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 8: he may not be there at the time it does, 306 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 8: but it's utter disregard for the president's schedule. They're going 307 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 8: to do that on a military clock that gives them 308 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 8: the best advantage they can to limit casualties, both on 309 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 8: the side of the Israeli military and also on the 310 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 8: side of civilians in Gaza. So that's a clock that's 311 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 8: just you know, totally separate than the presidents. And then 312 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 8: you also have Iran and Egypt, two really important players, 313 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 8: one negative, one positive that the President is talking to 314 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 8: as much as Israel, and he's giving a warning to 315 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 8: the Iranians by going there that if they want to 316 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 8: broaden this conflict, they're going to have to deal with 317 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 8: the United States and trying to give some kind of 318 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 8: a bridge to the Egyptians, who play an incredibly important 319 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 8: role in getting aid into Gaza to offset some of 320 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 8: the humanitarian problems. So this is a really high priority, 321 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 8: and it's only the President of United States who can 322 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 8: actually effectuate change that's positive in this regard. 323 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,479 Speaker 3: Well, that's pretty remarkable. The optics would be amazing Genie. 324 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 3: Depending on where you stand on this whole issue, though, 325 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,119 Speaker 3: could also be challenging for Joe Biden going into a 326 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 3: re election cycle. His message do not occupy Gaza was 327 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 3: heard loudly last evening on sixty Minutes. Why does he 328 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 3: have to show up in person? 329 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 9: You know, he doesn't have to, but I think he 330 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 9: is going to try, provided that they can maintain his security, 331 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,879 Speaker 9: and is of course the timing of when they go 332 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 9: in with boots on the ground and Tadaza. You know, 333 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 9: it is a difficult security challenge number one, But I 334 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 9: do think if he's able to securely go over there, 335 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,959 Speaker 9: he will and should. That said, I was struck by 336 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 9: his tone on sixty Minutes last night. The President has 337 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 9: given full throated support to Israel. He maintains that, and 338 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 9: by the same token, we heard him walking this very 339 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 9: very fine line last night and saying things like everybody 340 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 9: knows that all Palestinians don't support Commis extremism, and you know, 341 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 9: the reality is we don't know if Israel knows that. 342 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 9: We don't know where he is getting that kind of data. 343 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 9: There's not public opinion polling, for instance, going on, nor 344 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 9: should there be, So he is reflecting what we are 345 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 9: hearing increasingly. We saw the New York Times ab ed 346 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 9: saying Israel can defend itself and uphold its value. We 347 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 9: saw former Obama administration officials come out, and I was 348 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 9: struck by an ADL official just yesterday saying that he's 349 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 9: concerned that as Israel moves forward, world opinion will turn 350 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,480 Speaker 9: against it. And that's a concern not only for Israel, 351 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 9: but for Joe Biden and the United States as well. 352 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 9: So I think the President is very clearly making the 353 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,159 Speaker 9: case that while he has full throated support for Israel, 354 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 9: he's deeply concerned about the civilians and Israel should be 355 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 9: very careful not to get in a quagmire in the 356 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,880 Speaker 9: West Bank or in sorry, in Gaza like they were 357 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 9: prior to two thousand and five. So it is very 358 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 9: difficult argument for him to make at a very challenging 359 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 9: time as he's facing a re election bid. 360 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 3: Gaza's Health Ministry Rick says at least twelve hundred Palestinians 361 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 3: have been trapped under rubble from Ukrainian from Ukrainian forgive me, 362 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 3: from Israeli airstrikes into Gaza. Those are the types of 363 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 3: headlines that could challenge the president on a trip like this. 364 00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:05,880 Speaker 8: Now, no question, this is going to be a very 365 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:10,320 Speaker 8: difficult pr environment. As Genie says, the President has got 366 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 8: this dual track where not only does he have to 367 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 8: be commander in chief in president United States, but he's 368 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,399 Speaker 8: got a run for election and so this is not 369 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 8: without its risks politically. That being said, he has some 370 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 8: repair work to be done on commander in chief. There's 371 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 8: no question he took a hit when the US withdrew 372 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 8: from Afghanistan and his leadership was questioned because of the chaos. 373 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 8: So if this can somehow help prepare that image, it's 374 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 8: probably a gamble worth taking. That being said, as you 375 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 8: point out, Joe, there are a lot of casualties with 376 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 8: civilians in Gaza, that's only an amount, and as Geni said, 377 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 8: that could put additional pressure on the Israelis. But all 378 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 8: of this is predicated on Israeli getting the necessary accomplishments 379 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 8: of their tasks, their priorities in Gaza, and I thought 380 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 8: General Deptula did a excellent job of articulating what their 381 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 8: military objectives would be. 382 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 3: This is becoming an issue on the Republican campaign trail. 383 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 3: As you might well, expect Mike Pence, we stand with Israel, 384 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 3: making the point Ron DeSantis no moral equivalents. Nikki Haley 385 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 3: is well speaking over the weekend here she is. 386 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 10: Whether it was burned bodies, whether it was women that 387 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 10: was raped, whether it were people being dragged down the 388 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 10: streets of Gaza. I know you saw it, but did 389 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 10: you hear it? Did you hear what they were saying 390 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 10: when they were dragging those bodies down the street, because 391 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 10: they were saying death to Israel, death to America. That's 392 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 10: what they do, that's how they think. That is why 393 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 10: Israel needs to eliminate Hamas once and for all. 394 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 3: It's pretty heavy stuff here in Genie. We've gotten to 395 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 3: the point where the president Joe Biden, sounds exactly like 396 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 3: the Republican candidates for president. Do you agree? 397 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 9: I do, with one glaring exception, which is the leader, 398 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,120 Speaker 9: as the money in the polls show, Donald Trump. I mean, 399 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 9: he is out posting things which make you really have 400 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 9: to take a step back and say is he equipped 401 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 9: to lead? I don't know a city council at this point. 402 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 9: He's talking about support for Israel after attacking bab Net 403 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 9: and Yahoo. In the hours after this atrocity, and after 404 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 9: claiming his blah is smart, he's talking about supporting Israel 405 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 9: and tying it to the stolen twenty twenty election. That 406 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 9: is what he's talking about. So I totally agree with you, Joe, 407 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 9: except as it pertains to the foreign ahead leader on 408 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 9: that side, which is still Donald Trump, and nothing crazy 409 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 9: that he has said, and it has gotten to crazy 410 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,760 Speaker 9: gotten there. It's been there a while, but it is 411 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 9: clear in the wake of this that nothing that he 412 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 9: says has dampered his support in the polls. And that's 413 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 9: got to be a concern for any thinking, caring rep Republican, 414 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 9: somebody who looks at what's happened at these atrocities and 415 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 9: scratches their head and says, is this man really talking 416 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 9: about the stolen election from twenty twenty. 417 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 3: We've only got a minute here, Rick. Are you surprised 418 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 3: we're not hearing more criticism from all of the Republican 419 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 3: candidates about Donald Trump as Genie's referring. Remember last week 420 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 3: bb let us down he said Hamas is smart. 421 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 7: Yeah. 422 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,240 Speaker 8: Look, I think these Republicans are criticizing Trump on the stump. 423 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,479 Speaker 8: I don't think the press is really reporting it because 424 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 8: they have such an affection for the crazy stuff, as 425 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 8: Genie says that Donald Trump says that's going to make 426 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 8: news when the more sane and sober comments being made 427 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 8: by Republican presidential candidates other than Trump really go unattended to. 428 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 8: I think everybody endorses what Nikki Haley said and the 429 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 8: quotes that you played. 430 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 7: Except for Donald Trump. 431 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,359 Speaker 8: That being said, I don't think anything Donald Trump says 432 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 8: has any bearing on the outcome of the crisis today 433 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 8: in the Middle other than the fear that many people 434 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 8: have in the Republican Party and in the Democratic Party 435 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 8: that if he becomes the nominee the party I'm potentially president, 436 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 8: all that could change overnight. 437 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 3: Well, I'll refer back to what Ron de Santis said 438 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 3: last week following the comments from Donald Trump quote, it 439 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 3: has absurd that anyone, much less simone running for president, 440 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 3: which who was now to attack our friend in ally Israel, 441 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,879 Speaker 3: much less praise Hesbola terrorists as very smart. 442 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 443 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: live weekdays at one eastern. 444 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 2: On Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg 445 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 2: Business app, or listen on demand wherever you get your podcast. 446 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 3: High noon Tuesday. That's when Jim Jordan will force a vote. 447 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 3: The reporting coming out of CNN right now, the Republican 448 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 3: nominee for House Speaker, the chair of the Judiciary Committee, 449 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 3: Jim Jordan's going to force this thing high noon tomorrow, 450 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 3: like something out of a Western even though he apparently 451 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 3: does not have the votes, or does he or will he. 452 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 3: Great reporting today from Steven Dennis, Laura Lidfann, Eric Wasson 453 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 3: our Congress team on the terminal, GOP's Jordan picks up 454 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 3: critical support for House speakership. It's really anyone's guess where 455 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 3: he is in the whip count right now, though, which 456 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 3: is something we'll talk to Mick mulvaney about next hour. 457 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 3: Let's reassemble the panel though. Rick Davis and Jeanie Shanzano 458 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 3: joined Bloomberg Politics contributors as we consider what's about to 459 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,159 Speaker 3: happen here. Looks like he got Mike Rodgers. That's what 460 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 3: Jody says. Rick, is Jim Jordan the next Speaker of 461 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 3: the House. 462 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 8: You know, I think it's a hard flog for him. 463 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 8: You know, he started out this process losing eighty one 464 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 8: vote to Austin Scott, who's Austin Scott, right. I mean, 465 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 8: you know, and he's been trying to peel it back 466 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 8: since then, and some through cajoling and deal making, but 467 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,880 Speaker 8: also some through threats and a little bit of extortion 468 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 8: from Fox News host Sean Hannity. This has been a 469 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 8: very divisive race, and so I don't think he's there. 470 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 8: Everything I've heard is he's still twenty thirty votes short. 471 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 8: Maybe that is a long way from being speaker. 472 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, what do you make of Sean Hannity? Believe it 473 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 3: was one of his producers sending letters to those who 474 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 3: are on the fence you need to find out why 475 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 3: they may not support Jim Jordan. It's a pretty interesting 476 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 3: tactic from a Fox News host. 477 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 9: It absolutely is. And you know, this is the reality 478 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 9: is that we've always said, we said it last week, 479 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 9: the faster Jim Jordan gets this on the floor, what 480 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,919 Speaker 9: they want to do is try to really arm twist 481 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 9: folks into making a public vote with the threat that 482 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 9: their constituents will be so upset if they don't go 483 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 9: in the direction of somebody who's supported by Donald Trump 484 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 9: and by social conservatives and by Fox News hosts, that 485 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 9: they will then primary them. And that is what we're 486 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 9: really hearing. It's obviously a stick that they can use, 487 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 9: and you know, so we'll see if that is successful. 488 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,479 Speaker 9: Another big get looks to be Ann Wagner firmly opposed now. 489 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 9: Some reporting says she is in Jim Jordan's champ now, 490 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 9: so that is a big get for him as well. 491 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 9: We keep appearing to Rick's point, you know, between maybe 492 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 9: a dozen to twenty maybe more or less are still 493 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 9: strongly opposed. But it was fifty five on Friday when 494 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 9: they left for the weekend, so he's got a long 495 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 9: way to go. And you know, I think the question 496 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 9: we all have to ask ourselves is is this a 497 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 9: party at this point that really really wants to govern 498 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 9: or are they more comfortable in the minority be in 499 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 9: the opposition? Because we are on day what twelve thirteen 500 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 9: of this thing and this still has no end in sight. 501 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,760 Speaker 9: They're going to go to the floor noon tomorrow. Who 502 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 9: knows what will happen there. We're hearing his opponents, Jordan's 503 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 9: opponents may put somebody up, but they're not even giving 504 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 9: a name, so who knows who that would be. It's 505 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 9: embarrassing and it's looking to be like a caucus that 506 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 9: does not want to govern and doesn't really enjoy being 507 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 9: in the majority. 508 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 3: I'm really taken by this letter or this email from 509 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 3: Sean Hannity's producer here, Rick, you mentioned at Axios got 510 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 3: their hands on this Stephanie from Hannity's show Fox News. 511 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 3: It says, sources tell Hannity Representative fill in the blank 512 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 3: is not supporting Jim Jordan for Speaker. Can you please 513 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 3: let me know if this is accurate. It then goes 514 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 3: on to say, if true, Hannity would like to know 515 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 3: why during a war breaking up between Israel and hamas 516 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 3: with the war in Ukraine, with wide open borders, with 517 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 3: a budget unfinished, why would Rep. Fill in the blank 518 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 3: be against Rep. Jim Jordan for Speaker. I'm not even 519 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 3: halfway through this thing, and they said deadlines reply on it. 520 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 3: I think, my gosh, I've been clearly under using Matt 521 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 3: Shirley and the other bookers and producers here, Rick. Is 522 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 3: this a new tactic that we should get used to? 523 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 8: Yeah, Joe, you should be lobbying for the next Speaker 524 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 8: of the House. You should pick a couple of bills 525 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 8: you like and start warning these guys that they'll be 526 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 8: a wrath from the Bloomberg Radio Show sound on if 527 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 8: they don't pull their weight. Yeah, no, Look, this is 528 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 8: like intrusion into the public domain. I think that they 529 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 8: need to be registered as lobbyists if they're going to 530 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 8: be a lobby in the House of Representatives. And by 531 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 8: the way, I think it actually backfar. Everybody I heard 532 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,720 Speaker 8: from this weekend who've gotten or seen that letter were 533 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 8: very upset that he is getting himself in the middle 534 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 8: of this race. So you know, be careful what you 535 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 8: ask for, you may just get it. And that's I'm 536 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 8: sure Jordan is scratching his head, going, who call Hannity? 537 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 8: Why is he doing this? 538 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 3: Yeah? Wow, I don't know. By the way, our booker, 539 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,440 Speaker 3: Matt Shirley Genie says he's too busy, So I guess 540 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 3: that's not going to start any time soon. But so 541 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 3: what do you make of forcing the vote at noon tomorrow? 542 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,240 Speaker 3: Is that not a fool's Errand after fifteen rounds with 543 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy. 544 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 9: Yeah, Matt is much busier than those bookers at Fox 545 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 9: for sure. And you know, I don't actually think it's 546 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 9: a fool's Errand if you are Jim Jordan, this is 547 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,280 Speaker 9: your path to the speakership. You don't have another path. 548 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,760 Speaker 9: You have to get this public. You have to make 549 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 9: people take a vote, and you have to threaten that 550 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 9: if they don't vote for you, they're going to be primary. 551 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 9: You know, what we are seeing is a wholesale change 552 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 9: in the way we do American politics. I mean, it's 553 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 9: not that long ago that this was, you know, something 554 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 9: where party leadership would really have the power. Now that 555 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 9: power is being outsourced to people who can get their 556 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,600 Speaker 9: name in the media, social and traditional visa v people 557 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 9: like bookers and producers on shows that their constituents watch. 558 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 9: That's a change. And to Rick's point, maybe these folks 559 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 9: need to now have to register as lobbyists for the 560 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:51,160 Speaker 9: US Congress. This is where we're headed. 561 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:56,880 Speaker 3: Wow, Actually, well that might actually work for a couple producers. 562 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 3: Here's Bill Heizenga. The Republicans spoke with us on Friday, 563 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 3: right when they learn they're all going home for the week. 564 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 11: Jim Jordan has some work he's got to do. He's 565 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 11: got to get in front of those people who are 566 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 11: objecting about it. Personally. I had put in an amendment 567 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 11: to our to our conference rules that would have required 568 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 11: us to reach to seventeen before we go to the floor. 569 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 3: And that's the weird part here, Rick, what do you 570 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 3: make of this going to the floor without actually knowing 571 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 3: what's going to happen? Is that a strategy at noon tomorrow? 572 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 8: Well, I've got whiplash. I don't know about you, Joe, 573 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,680 Speaker 8: but like you know, Jim Jordan's like starts out saying, oh, no, 574 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 8: I'm not going to run for speaker. Oh well, I'll 575 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 8: consider it, depends on what the caucus wants. And then 576 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 8: it's like, I'll run for speaker, but only if the 577 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 8: caucus gives you two seventeen before we get out. And 578 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 8: then that changed again to put me on the floor 579 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,920 Speaker 8: tomorrow and force everybody to vote one way or another. 580 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 8: I mean, I'm sorry, I'm exhausted, my back hurts, my 581 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 8: neck is twisted. 582 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 7: I mean Jim Jordan. 583 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,239 Speaker 8: Has had more positions in the last five days, then 584 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 8: then well I won't even say who has a lot 585 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 8: of positions. So bottom line, this is the act of 586 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 8: a man who doesn't have the votes. He's going to 587 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,960 Speaker 8: try and pressure the floor, and I think that's everybody's strategy. 588 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 8: Let him hang out there. He's got to lose on 589 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 8: the floor. In order to clear the way for another candidate, 590 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 8: and I think there are plenty of members who could 591 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 8: garner that kind of support. 592 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 3: Wow, not a very hopeful Rick Davis. 593 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the 594 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the 595 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,959 Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. 596 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 597 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty. 598 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 3: Congressman Jim Jordan spent the weekend twisting arms, but he 599 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 3: does not have the votes to be speaker yet. As 600 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 3: lawmakers returned to Washington today with a vote on the 601 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:03,280 Speaker 3: speaker expected at high noon tomorrow, we'll get the latest 602 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 3: from Capitol Hill and Kaylee Lines Ahead, we'll discuss with 603 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,760 Speaker 3: Mick Mulvaney, the co founder of the Freedom Caucus, former 604 00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 3: acting Chief of Staff, and the Trump White House back 605 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 3: for his weekly conversation. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington. Join 606 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 3: now by Kaylee Lions. It's good to see you. I 607 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 3: hold the letter in my hands. Dear colleague, letter not 608 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,879 Speaker 3: a dear John, A dear colleague Jim Jordan's stationary. It's 609 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 3: very lengthy. You know, I feel like this could be 610 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 3: a pretty tight pitch considering everything that we've heard. Yeah, 611 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 3: first to the principles that unite us as Republicans, the 612 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,799 Speaker 3: role of speaker bringing all Republicans together, no measure of 613 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 3: what we can achieve for the American people. This is 614 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 3: the same Jim Jordan who told us that he did 615 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:49,240 Speaker 3: not want to run for speaker. 616 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 12: Right, Yes, that was two weeks ago, about and what 617 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 12: a difference two weeks. 618 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 3: Do you imagine that was two weeks ago. Now he's 619 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 3: essentially forcing a vote. This is kind of a big 620 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 3: development here CNN. He's forcing a vote at high noon tomorrow, 621 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 3: So we're going to find out pretty quick how many 622 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 3: votes he's got. 623 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 12: Yeah, and it seems like he has more, at least 624 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,960 Speaker 12: secured than he had on Friday when more than fifty 625 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,400 Speaker 12: Republicans voted by secret ballot and said they would not 626 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,920 Speaker 12: support him for speaker. And yet he's picked up some 627 00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:21,480 Speaker 12: pretty key individuals just in the last twenty four hours. 628 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 12: Mike Rogers and Wagner can calvert all of these names 629 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,640 Speaker 12: seem like they may be building some momentum for him. 630 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 12: But really it is going to come down to the 631 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 12: math here is it enough to get the. 632 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 3: Gal We spoke with Bill Hayseenga on Friday. This was 633 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 3: right after they had all learned they were going home 634 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:41,600 Speaker 3: for the weekend. 635 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 12: He didn't have a slight. 636 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, he did not love. But remember this idea of 637 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 3: having this figured out before you go to the floor, right, 638 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 3: a cloture vote, if you will, a nominating vote that 639 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,160 Speaker 3: would mirror the number of votes needed to actually do 640 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,439 Speaker 3: this on the floor. That never happened, Haiseenga thing it should. 641 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 11: Jim Jordan has some work he's got to do. He's 642 00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 11: got to get in front of those people who are 643 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 11: objecting about it personally. I had put in an amendment 644 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 11: to our conference rules that would have required us to 645 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 11: reach to seventeen before we go to the floor. That 646 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 11: is sort of maybe the spirit of this in many 647 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 11: ways that that isn't. 648 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 12: A formal rule. 649 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 11: But guess what, we're not going to have any help 650 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 11: from the Democrats, and not that we were necessarily expecting any, 651 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 11: but we have got to come together as the Republicans 652 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 11: to find two hundred and seventeen votes. 653 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 3: Ah to seventeen. We kept hearing all last week that 654 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 3: no one can get to seventeen. Yes, that may still 655 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,360 Speaker 3: be the case, by the way. 656 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 12: And we will find out more come tomorrow afternoon. 657 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 3: Joe, you think Mick mulvaney would go to the floor 658 00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 3: if he were nominated speaker without knowing he had the votes. 659 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 12: I don't know. Should we ask Mick? 660 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 3: Because I could see both sides here. I think kind 661 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 3: of lives on the edge a little bit. I think 662 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:04,440 Speaker 3: that he could actually be the one to go for it, 663 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 3: but I also feel like he might be smarter than 664 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 3: that and want something to count on. Nick, why not 665 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 3: make that adjustment, that rule change so you know that 666 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 3: when c Span turns the lights on, this is going 667 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,240 Speaker 3: to look good for Republicans. 668 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 13: I'm trying to figure out the comment about I'm too 669 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 13: smart to do it, so that means if I go 670 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 13: to the floor, I'd be doing something stupid. So maybe 671 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 13: I shouldn't say I would do that. I think the 672 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 13: dynamic is a bunch of different. 673 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,240 Speaker 3: Is it a strategy movement? 674 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 13: Yeah, the strategy. It is a strategy, and it's not 675 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 13: a bad strategy. It's a real gutsy kind of strategy. 676 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 13: Is actually what it says is, look if I'm nominated 677 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,399 Speaker 13: and I have no interest in the job. So I'm 678 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,280 Speaker 13: just using this to make a sim If you're nominated 679 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 13: and the votes, you don't have the votes in private, 680 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 13: but you think that some people might not have the 681 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 13: guts to vote against. 682 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 7: You on the floor, then yeah, you go to the floor. 683 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 13: And if you got Donald Trump on your side threatening 684 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,840 Speaker 13: to prime those folks, maybe that pushes you to go 685 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,239 Speaker 13: to the floor a little bit. Look, I asked an 686 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 13: interesting question today of a friend of mine on the Hill. 687 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,920 Speaker 13: I said, Look, I know that Matt Gates is crazy 688 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,879 Speaker 13: enough and stubborn enough and just bizarre enough to sit 689 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 13: on the floor for fifteen votes and be the vote 690 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,400 Speaker 13: against Kevin McCarthy because I saw him do it in January. 691 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 13: Is Don Bacon the same kind of person? Does Don 692 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 13: Bacon have that same sort of different, strange gear to 693 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 13: where he would be willing to sit on the floor 694 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,799 Speaker 13: for fifteen votes and vote against Jim Jordan. 695 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 7: I don't think that he is. 696 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,879 Speaker 13: He's a lot nicer and more reasonable, probably a lot 697 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 13: brighter than Matt Gates, But I don't think he's got 698 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 13: that kind of that bizarre approach to you know, burn 699 00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 13: the place down or else Don is a reasonable guy, 700 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 13: and Jim maybe counting on those folks who are reasonable 701 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 13: to say I won't vote be in private, but taking them, 702 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:51,400 Speaker 13: you know, sort of calling them out and seeing if 703 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,480 Speaker 13: they got the votes they gots to vote against him 704 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:53,960 Speaker 13: on the floor. 705 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 7: If there's a strategy, that's the strategy. 706 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,160 Speaker 12: Okay, So that's the strategy. It's just as whether not 707 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 12: it's one that's gonna work. Mick, do you think Jim 708 00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,880 Speaker 12: Jordan can pull this off? Ultimately? 709 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:07,799 Speaker 13: I would have said no three or four hours ago. 710 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,399 Speaker 13: Then he picked up Mike Rodgers and Ken Calvert, who's 711 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 13: not a name that's very well widely known outside of Washington, 712 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 13: but a very influential member of sort of the spending 713 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 13: wing of the party. You've got these two groups, right, 714 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,240 Speaker 13: You've got the military folks Mike Rodgers and Ad Wagner, 715 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 13: and you've got the folks like to spend a lot 716 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 13: of money like Ken Calvert and to Ada Wagner and 717 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 13: Mike and Mike Rodgers. 718 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 7: I didn't think he'd get him. 719 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 13: And when he when it was announced they were supporting him. 720 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,680 Speaker 13: That that changed the analysis in sort of in my 721 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,480 Speaker 13: internal math that if he can get those folks he 722 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 13: might be able to get the votes. Here's the first 723 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,399 Speaker 13: question I asked myself, what did he have to give 724 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,520 Speaker 13: to Ken Calvert and Mike Rogers to get their support? 725 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 13: And is that the type of giveaway that then turns 726 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 13: off some of the folks on the far right, for 727 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,319 Speaker 13: whom Jim is not nearly conservative enough. I'm going back 728 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 13: to the Matt Gates anarchist the party. So I honestly, 729 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 13: no one knows, and it's just different than it was 730 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 13: three four hours ago. Through four hours ago said he 731 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,080 Speaker 13: does not have the votes, not going to get the votes. 732 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,480 Speaker 13: It looks like he might have made some progress here 733 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 13: and might be moving in the direction of getting to seventeen. 734 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,759 Speaker 3: You know Jim Jordan better than just about anyone, I 735 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 3: would say, Mick, You've founded the Freedom Caucus with him. 736 00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 3: You certainly know him as a lawmaker, you know him 737 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 3: as an individual. There's been some tough questions about his 738 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,799 Speaker 3: past over the past couple of days. They were all 739 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 3: aired out on Sunday Morning television. He's accused of covering 740 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,240 Speaker 3: up sexual assault allegations when he was a wrestling coach. 741 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 3: Liz Cheney says he was the closest thing to January sixth, 742 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,759 Speaker 3: the conspiracy on January sixth that you could get in 743 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,800 Speaker 3: a lawmaker on Capitol Hill and should not be trusted 744 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 3: with this job. How do you react to those. 745 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 13: A there's a couple different questions at Liz Change. No 746 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,239 Speaker 13: one hears what Liz Cheney says. I hate to be 747 00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,960 Speaker 13: that blunt about it, but no one listens to her. 748 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,719 Speaker 13: She was a three or four term member of the 749 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,440 Speaker 13: House and she's out now. So if her last name 750 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 13: wasn't Chaining, nobody would be talking about her on the 751 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,480 Speaker 13: other issues. You know, I know Jim fairly well, and 752 00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 13: nothing that I ever heard the allegations related to the 753 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 13: things that happened at that school twenty thirty years ago 754 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:18,879 Speaker 13: have anything to do in my mind, with the Jim 755 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,520 Speaker 13: Jordan that I know. And I also know this is 756 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,440 Speaker 13: that politicians of both parties know that it's really easy 757 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,680 Speaker 13: to make allegations against sitting against sitting members of Congress, 758 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,040 Speaker 13: and we usually don't pay attention to those sorts of 759 00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 13: allegations because people make them all the time until they 760 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 13: rise the level of criminal investigations, ethics charges, that kind 761 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 13: of stuff. 762 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 7: And I don't think that ever happened with Jim. So 763 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:40,799 Speaker 7: all I know is I know him. 764 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 13: I remember this topic coming up, I don't know, five 765 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 13: years ago and immediately dismissing in my own mind, and 766 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,040 Speaker 13: I think it would o weigh fairly quickly. So I 767 00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:52,040 Speaker 13: don't I'm not concerned there's anything there. And if Jim 768 00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:54,399 Speaker 13: Jordan wasn't being considered for speaker, my guess is nobody 769 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:55,439 Speaker 13: else would care about it either. 770 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 12: Okay, so that's on that subject. But Mike, returning to 771 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 12: this subject of January sixth, this isn't something that only 772 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,719 Speaker 12: Liz Cheney talks about. You yourself have been very outspoken 773 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 12: against your former boss, former President Donald Trump, because of 774 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,279 Speaker 12: the events on January sixth, And if Jim Jordan was 775 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 12: close to that, if he was one of those denying 776 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,640 Speaker 12: the results of the twenty twenty election and trying to 777 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 12: stop that process, why would you feel any differently about him? 778 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,960 Speaker 7: Well, I don't feel differently about him. 779 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:27,960 Speaker 13: When you go back to you're right about the January 780 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,320 Speaker 13: sixth thing, right, And if that's what Jim's leadership becomes, 781 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 13: If Jim is down there trying to pitch people on 782 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 13: elect me speaker, and I'm really going to dig into 783 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 13: the twenty twenty election. My guess is that's a fool's 784 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,279 Speaker 13: errand and he doesn't have a chance. If he's down 785 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,840 Speaker 13: then on telling people, Look, I want to go forward. 786 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,480 Speaker 13: We have to pass the spending bill. It will be conservative. 787 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 13: We have to pass support for Israel, it will be 788 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,920 Speaker 13: very generous. I do want to continue the investigations in 789 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 13: the Biden family. If that's the message that he's selling, 790 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 13: I can see him getting someplace. If he's down there 791 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 13: selling well, I think we need to revisit twenty twenty. 792 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 13: He doesn't have a chance, so I don't show that 793 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 13: answers your question not But I the reason I mentioned 794 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 13: Liz Cheney's again that she is not voting. She doesn't 795 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 13: really know a lot of the folks within the conservative 796 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 13: winging the party, so it's very strange that her nanks 797 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 13: pop I started name pop up on Drudge Report, and 798 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,480 Speaker 13: my immediate reaction was why, But maybe the people say 799 00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:24,279 Speaker 13: the same thing about me. 800 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,400 Speaker 3: Well, she helped the co chair of the committee investigating 801 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,400 Speaker 3: January sixth, so obviously she knows a little bit about 802 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 3: this mix. She tweeted that Jim Jordan urged that Mike 803 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,480 Speaker 3: Pence refused to count lawful electoral votes. If ours nominate 804 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 3: Jordan to be Speaker, they will be abandoning the constitution, 805 00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,720 Speaker 3: they will lose the House majority, and they will deserve 806 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 3: to take the name off the message. Do you disagree 807 00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,120 Speaker 3: with what she wrote? 808 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:53,760 Speaker 7: It's hard for me to take the name off the message. 809 00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 13: But I always get interested in people who lose elections, 810 00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 13: whether they be Republicans or Democrats, tell Republicans how to 811 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:05,759 Speaker 13: win elections. So but I struggle with that. Look, I 812 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 13: don't think that Jim Jordan's activities. Again, let's be clear, 813 00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 13: I quit over January sixth. I am not defending January sixth, 814 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 13: But any way, shape or form infacted the opposite are. 815 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,400 Speaker 13: I continued to condemn it anytime anybody wants me to. 816 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,840 Speaker 13: But I don't think that's what this race is about. 817 00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 13: I really don't. I think it's the race is about 818 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,560 Speaker 13: the next three or four months, or age actually six 819 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 13: or eight weeks. How do you get through a funding 820 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,480 Speaker 13: issue for the government between now in the middle of November. 821 00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:35,000 Speaker 13: How do you deal with supporting Israel? What do you 822 00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 13: do about Ukraine? Those are the three big issues that 823 00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,959 Speaker 13: Congress has to deal with personally, and you guys haven't 824 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 13: asked this question, but I'll answer it anyway. I can't 825 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,839 Speaker 13: believe Jim wants the job because I don't know how 826 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,040 Speaker 13: you pass a funding bill that isn't bipartisan. And if 827 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:53,719 Speaker 13: a bipartisan funding bill cost cost Kevin McCarthy's job, I 828 00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,319 Speaker 13: don't know how it costs whoever the next speaker is 829 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:57,799 Speaker 13: his or her job. 830 00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,160 Speaker 7: So again, if. 831 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,279 Speaker 13: People want to look back at January sixth, and if 832 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:02,920 Speaker 13: Liz Chaney wants to see that, that's great. 833 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:04,319 Speaker 7: I'm trying to figure out what happens in the next 834 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:05,160 Speaker 7: forty five days. 835 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,000 Speaker 12: Well, also in the next forty five days, Mick. Theoretically 836 00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:14,759 Speaker 12: the impeachment inquiry, which Jim Jordan was helping lead, will continue. 837 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 12: And I wonder what a speaker Jordan potentially would mean 838 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,800 Speaker 12: for those individuals and districts that Biden won in twenty twenty, 839 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,759 Speaker 12: those vulnerable Republicans. Do you realistically think they can go 840 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,920 Speaker 12: to the floor and allow him to get the gavel? 841 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:28,879 Speaker 12: What would it mean for them? 842 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,600 Speaker 13: I think, first of all, I don't think he can 843 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:34,240 Speaker 13: be in charge of the investigation if he is the speaker, 844 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 13: So they've got to have somebody else to back to 845 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 13: back up the same is true, by the way, if 846 00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,720 Speaker 13: and I still think there's a likely chance that Patrick 847 00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:45,279 Speaker 13: McHenry's role as the interim speaker is somehow extended for 848 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,160 Speaker 13: a period of time, and if that happens, he might 849 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,560 Speaker 13: not be able to function as the House Financial Services 850 00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,080 Speaker 13: Committee chairman as well. So if Jim becomes the speaker, 851 00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,360 Speaker 13: they have to find somebody else through investigation. What happens 852 00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,880 Speaker 13: from there, Kaylee, I think depends on what the evidence 853 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 13: is if they find Keep in mind, the Democrats had 854 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,320 Speaker 13: an an impeachment inquiry on Donald Trump for weeks before 855 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 13: they started the actual impeachment. They didn't have the evidence 856 00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 13: until Trump gave them the transcript of the phone conversation 857 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,719 Speaker 13: with Zelenski. But for that they probably don't have the 858 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,120 Speaker 13: ability to impeach him on the floor. I think the 859 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 13: same is true of the Republicans. They're going through the 860 00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 13: inquiry now. If they find evidence that justifies an impeachment, 861 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 13: then they go that route. But if they don't find anything, 862 00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 13: I don't think they can move forward. So I think 863 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,600 Speaker 13: the only thing that changes theirs who's running the investigation 864 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,839 Speaker 13: of Jim Jordan's speaker. I don't think he can run 865 00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 13: the investigation I have to. 866 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 3: Go back to our conversation with Jim Jordan on the 867 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:42,279 Speaker 3: second of October. Kaylee already referred to it. Nick. We were, 868 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,359 Speaker 3: you know exactly where we were and the balcony off 869 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 3: the cannon rotunda. It was the day the government was 870 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,240 Speaker 3: supposed to be closed, and this all came up again 871 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,239 Speaker 3: with who wants to be speaker here? 872 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,040 Speaker 14: But I do not support that. I think Kevin McCarthy's 873 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 14: done a good job. I mean, we told the American 874 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,279 Speaker 14: people that we would you pass legislation rid of the 875 00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,600 Speaker 14: eighty seven thousand IRS agents. We told the American people 876 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:04,120 Speaker 14: we'd pass the Printal Bill rights. 877 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 3: We did that. 878 00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 14: We told the American people we would pass legislation to 879 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 14: deal with the energy problem. We told the American people 880 00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 14: we would pass the toughest border security security, immigration enforcement 881 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,359 Speaker 14: legislation in history, and we did that. 882 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,719 Speaker 3: He said he wanted Kevin to be speaker. When I 883 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,480 Speaker 3: asked him directly again, he said, no, I do not 884 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 3: want to be speaker, Mick. Do you believe that your 885 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,040 Speaker 3: old colleague from the Freedom Caucus, Jim Jordan, actually wants 886 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 3: this job. 887 00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,040 Speaker 7: No, I think he wants Kevin McCarthy to be the job. 888 00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 7: And go back to doing to leading the investigations. I 889 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:40,520 Speaker 7: think he's here, he's where he is now because what 890 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:41,799 Speaker 7: else who else is there? 891 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,759 Speaker 13: I mean, when you get down to the next level, 892 00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,279 Speaker 13: you talk about people who might have only been in 893 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:46,359 Speaker 13: Congress a couple of years. 894 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:48,400 Speaker 7: You don't know about their conservatives, So you would. 895 00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:49,879 Speaker 3: Be a reluctant speaker in your view. 896 00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:50,960 Speaker 7: I think so. 897 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 13: And I gotta think Joe I got to think that 898 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,319 Speaker 13: he's got to deal with the far far right way 899 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,920 Speaker 13: with those anarchists. And again they're not conservative, they're populist anarchists. 900 00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,000 Speaker 13: That's the Matt Gates crowd. So let's call him the 901 00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,200 Speaker 13: anarchist wing, because they're not the freedom calls folks. He's 902 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:06,640 Speaker 13: got to have a deal with him and says, look, 903 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,680 Speaker 13: if I cut a bipartisan deal to open the government, 904 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,759 Speaker 13: are you going to try and get rid of me? 905 00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:13,480 Speaker 13: At least he's got to have a handshake that they 906 00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,920 Speaker 13: won't do that, because again, otherwise, what's the one lesson 907 00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,399 Speaker 13: from Kevin McCarthy's experience. If you bring a bipartisan bill 908 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,319 Speaker 13: to the floor of the House, you are at risk 909 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 13: of losing your speakership. That's a really easy message to 910 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 13: sort of deliver and to comprehend. So unless Jim has 911 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,319 Speaker 13: has got a deal with those folks that I don't 912 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:34,920 Speaker 13: know about, that we don't know about, then he might 913 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:36,440 Speaker 13: be in the same the same position. 914 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,440 Speaker 7: Kevin has a couple of weeks from them. 915 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,279 Speaker 3: Nick mulvaney, always great to spend time. Did you say 916 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,600 Speaker 3: whether you think he's actually going to get this vote tomorrow? 917 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:44,160 Speaker 3: Did we hear. 918 00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:46,120 Speaker 12: Engaged in the last three to four hours? 919 00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:47,960 Speaker 3: Okay, so you think he's going to get this at 920 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,239 Speaker 3: noon tomorrow, Mick, I think his chances went from two 921 00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,640 Speaker 3: to ten to six and ten. All right there, it 922 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,600 Speaker 3: is Mick mulvainy. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening to 923 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,000 Speaker 3: the Sound on podcasts. Make sure to subscribe if you 924 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,920 Speaker 3: haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get 925 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 3: your podcasts, and you can find us live every weekday 926 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,400 Speaker 3: from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time at Bloomberg 927 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,040 Speaker 3: dot com.