1 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to food stuff. I'm Lauren vocal Ban 2 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: and I'm angry and uh this is this is promised 3 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: long awaited follow up to our sugar episodes about sweeteners 4 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: which are not sugar. Yes, those artificial sweeteners, artificial sweeten nurse. 5 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: What could they be a lot of things as it 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:32,919 Speaker 1: turns out, Oh my gosh, yes, they even showed up 7 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: in our miracle very episode. Um so if you want 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: to check that one out. Pretty interesting. But artificial sweeten nurse? 9 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: What are they? What are they? They sometimes go by 10 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: the name sugar substitutes, and that's pretty much what they are. Um, 11 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: something you use instead of sucros a k A. Table 12 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: sugar to sweeten things. They're typically sweeter than sugar by 13 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: anywhere from two to twenty thousand times, so you need 14 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: less to pack the same sweet punch. For this reason, 15 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: they are also sometimes called high intensity sweeteners intense and 16 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: if you remember from our miracle very episode. Artificial sweeteners 17 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: in the US are regulated by the Food and Drug 18 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: Administration of the f d A, including the four heavy 19 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: hitters Aspartame, which goes by nutra Sweet Sugar Twin and 20 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: equal super Lows or Splenda saccharine sweet and low and cyclomate, 21 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:33,679 Speaker 1: which is not available in the US, but it is 22 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: available still in one other countries. Yes, the f d 23 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: A has also approved for general use a sulfame SunNet 24 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: New Team. New Team are de tagatives, sugary Um, advent 25 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: Tame and too natural, low calorie sweeteners stevia and monk 26 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: fruit extracts. The distinction here is between f d A 27 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: approved food additives that have gone review before being put 28 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: on the market and products that are generally recognized as 29 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:10,959 Speaker 1: safe uh And and that g r a S designation 30 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 1: means that science has been done to test the products 31 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: safety and that the research has been made public. Companies 32 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: are free to do this research and release g r 33 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: S notices with or without involvement from the FDA, and 34 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: the FDA can choose to either leave the notices b 35 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: or challenge them. Okay, well, here's a question that I 36 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: have had. How can it be zero calorie? Lauren? Well, Uh, 37 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: foods that contains zero calories are things that our bodies 38 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: don't digest or metabolize. By that definition, they're they're kind 39 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: of not food at all, but rather something that interacts 40 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,839 Speaker 1: with our taste butt nerves. Or that has some other 41 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: effect that we want that that explains why we're eating 42 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: not food. Okay, um, some artificial sweetens aren't actually zero calorie. 43 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: They're like a number approaching zero calorie. In the United States, 44 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: anything under five calories per serving can be labeled as 45 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: zero calorie due to laws giving companies and an honestly 46 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: fair amount of wiggle room in labeling their calorie counts. 47 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: Artificial sweeteners are made up of compounds that trigger that 48 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: the sweet nerve sensors in our taste buds, but most 49 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: of them are not metabolized by our bodies, either at 50 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,239 Speaker 1: all or at an efficient rate. Add to that the 51 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: facts that these compounds trigger those nerves sensors way harder 52 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: than sugar, and you've got a product that seems like 53 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: a magical substitute. For example, a two point eight gram 54 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: sugar packet contains eleven calories. A two point eight gram 55 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 1: packet of aspartame based sugar substitute contains about three calories 56 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: and a whole bunch of filler to make up those crystals. Okay, okay, 57 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: let's let's let's run some industry numbers. Sure, um, per 58 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 1: year we produced, we produce thirty four million million pounds 59 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: of aspartame. As of the global consumption of all high 60 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: intensity artificial sweeteners was over a hundred and forty six 61 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: thousand metric tons, which, by by by sweetness, is equivalent 62 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: to over twenty one million metric tons of sugar. Wow. 63 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: In the United States, we consume a lot of sugar substitutes. 64 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: Based on data from the National Health and Nutrition Examination 65 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: Survey that was taken between two thousand, nine adults and 66 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: about of children reported consuming sugar substitutes. Of children, that's 67 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: the number that made me got um, and that actually 68 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: might be a conservative number. Many packaged foods that are 69 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: marketed as healthy yogurt, granola bars, juice, juice, cocktails, and 70 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 1: another flavored beverages have started including artificial sweet and their 71 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: recipes to keep their products calorie count slow, so some 72 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: folks might be eating them without even knowing it. Yeah. 73 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 1: I went on a kind of a I'm gonna monitor 74 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 1: how much sugar and how much sugar substitute I am 75 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: having in my diet and like try to lower the number. 76 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: And I remember getting so discouraged. Yeah, by how much 77 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: it was in so many things I would not have guessed. Yeah, 78 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: I the one that makes me mad personally is Stevia, 79 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 1: because I feel like a lot of companies are using 80 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: it as a natural alternative, and the flavor of stevia, like, 81 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: there's a note to stevia that I hate. I dislike 82 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: so much. So whenever something's like, oh, zero calorie, I'm like, 83 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: it's unsweetened, and then I'm like, crap, this is the worst. Yeah, 84 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: personal opinions aside in the global market for high intensity 85 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: sweeteners was two billion dollars, and while it's been kind 86 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: of stagnating in the United States and Europe due to 87 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: health trends away from soda consumption, the market is growing 88 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: really fast in China, the Middle East, and Africa, especially 89 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: in developing areas that are newly gaining access to prepackaged 90 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: food and beverage products. And even in the US it's 91 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: still expected to grow pretty tremendously over the next decade. 92 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: We have quite the sweet tooth. Yes, well, let's let's 93 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: go over some of these. Yeah. I love the thread 94 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: that connects the origin stories of basically all of these things. 95 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: And that thread is bad science. It really is, it 96 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 1: really is. And on that note, let's take a quick 97 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. 98 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you. Okay. So the first 99 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: artificial sweetener to arrive on the scene was saccharin. In 100 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: a researcher at John Hopkins University was looking for possible 101 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 1: ways to use up left over coal tar derivatives. That's 102 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: the great start already, ye, petroleum industry right there at 103 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: the top, perfect promising start. Yep. Perhaps distracted by this mission, 104 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 1: one day he sat down to lunch and he got 105 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: a taste of something sweet on his fingers. He had 106 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: forgotten to wash his hands. He went back to the 107 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: lab searching for the culprit and eliminated everything but yep, 108 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: the coal tar derivative benzoic sulfhamide, which is about three 109 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 1: hundred times sweeter than sugar. But that's very difficult for 110 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: me to believe that it is true the fellow who 111 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: discovered this Constantine Falberg originally listed the labs owner Ira 112 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 1: Remsen as the co discoverer in a paper he published 113 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: in eighteen seventy nine, but once he gave even some 114 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: thought and realized how much money he could make, he 115 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: named himself the soul creator on the six patent. When 116 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: later asked about this, Remsen said of Falberg, he is 117 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: a scoundrel. It nauseates me to hear my name mentioned 118 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: in the same breath with him. Wow, I know, oh passion, 119 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: I am fair. I mean that's a lot of money. Yeah, 120 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: it is. The use of it spread fairly quickly, and 121 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: by nineteen o seven it was in all kinds of 122 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: sodas and canned goods without public knowledge. In fact, the 123 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: first thing mont Santo sold a saccharin. Oh mon Santo. Yeah, 124 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: they're gonna be coming coming up again. Okay. The head 125 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: of the chemical division of the United States Department of Agriculture, 126 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: Harvey Wiley, tried to get saccharin banned, but a certain 127 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt got in his way. This was after Wiley 128 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 1: told Roosevelt everyone who ate that sweet corn was deceived. 129 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: He thought he was eating sugar, when in going to fact, 130 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 1: he was eating a cold tar product totally devoid of 131 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: food value and extremely injurious to the health. Roosevelt followed 132 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: up with this dignified response, anybody who says saccharin is 133 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: injurious to the health is an idiot. Roosevelt had been 134 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: prescribed saccharine use by his doctor for for weight loss 135 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: purposes that that might be influencing his point of view 136 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,439 Speaker 1: there somewhat. I don't know, Lauren, that might be too logical. 137 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: Saccharin was frequently used medicinally. You could get it either 138 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: as a pill or a powder, and doctors might prescribe 139 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: it to treat Maladdie's like headaches or nausea or sitting. 140 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: In Roosevelt's case, Roosevelt couldn't stay in the way forever, though, 141 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: and saccharin was banned in nine seven. But wait, you 142 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 1: might be thinking, isn't saccharin still something I can buy? Mmmmmm? Why, Yes, 143 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: it is. The sugar rationing of World War One led 144 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: to the band's reversal, and once the world was over, 145 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 1: people were like, oh, yeah, we're used to it now, 146 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 1: just keep coming. Yeah, no problems here. The next big 147 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: entry in the artificial sweetener arena was made largely in 148 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 1: response to the diet soda craze of the nineteen fifties. 149 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 1: And I'm talking about cyclomate, which I had basically never 150 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: heard of until we did this episode, because well, well 151 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: well you'll you'll hear the story. You'll hear it. This 152 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: stuff sweetened diet pepsi and tab both of which almost 153 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,559 Speaker 1: tripled their market share between nineteen sixty three and nineteen 154 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: sixty seven. You might know it from packets of sweeten though, 155 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 1: or not really, because it's not It's not what's in 156 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: there anymore more like sweet No am I right? But yes, 157 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: I have a whole career that I would fail it immediately. 158 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: It was discovered several years prior in a weirdly similar 159 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:06,760 Speaker 1: way to saccharine. A researcher was working on a fever 160 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: reducing drug at the University of Illinois and he tasted 161 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: some mysterious sweetness on his fingers during a smoke break. Seriously, 162 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:21,959 Speaker 1: this could have been finger looking poisonous, but hygiene and 163 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: science pe Okay, yeah, I mean I guess he was 164 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: small Anyway. This chemical substance was cycler mate, and it 165 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: boasted sweetness level thirty to fifty times higher than sugar. 166 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: It was so popular that by nineteen sixty three it 167 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: was America's favorite, as in seventeen million pounds consumed per 168 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: year in the US. By I mean a tenth of 169 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: the price of sugar and the calories. What could be 170 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: wrong with that magical Yeah, it turns out there's a 171 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 1: couple of things wrong with it. All. That Sweet Sweet 172 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 1: calorie free cash flow came to an end after a 173 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: study in the nineteen seven and he seemed to suggest 174 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: that cyclamate caused bladder cancer and rats. The FDA band 175 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: of the stuff almost immediately after uh. Later research would 176 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: indicate that cyclamate does not cause cancer, either alone or 177 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: when used with saccharin, which was the main concern at 178 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: the time that the combination of sacaranan cyclamate was doing 179 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: something wiggy um. A reapproval petition was filed with the FDA, 180 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: but it has been languishing in abeyance. That is, it 181 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 1: is not actively being considered. Yeah, like we said at 182 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: the top of the show, it's used widely in the 183 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: rest of the world, but it never came back here. 184 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: No interesting the cyclamate in those packets of Sweet and Low. 185 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: They were replaced by sacharin, which itself barely escaped unscathed. 186 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: The president of the Cumberland pack Incorporation, which was behind 187 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: the sacurin based reformulation of Sweet and Low and the 188 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,559 Speaker 1: Calorie Control Council, blitz TV and radio programs and took 189 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: out ads in the paper urging people to write in 190 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 1: to their congressman against the band calling another example of 191 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: big governments all caps. Within a week of the band 192 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: taking effect, Congress was inundated with over a million latter's 193 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: protesting it. Senator Ted Kennedy put it on hold and 194 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: a two year moratorium was placed on the band in 195 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: order to do some more research. Instead of being banned, 196 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: the Saccharin Study and Labeling Act of nineteen seventy seven 197 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: required sacharin to come with this label use it. This 198 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: product maybe hazardous to your health. This product contains sacharin 199 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: which has been determined to cause cancer in laboratory animals. MHM. 200 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: Canada banned it, but in the US it didn't seem 201 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: to do much. Forty million Americans you sachrin every day 202 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: by nineteen seventy nine. The legitimacy of the studies findings 203 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: has been called into question two by some. In nineteen 204 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: seventy four, then National Academy of Sciences took all the 205 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: studies that had been done on sacharn concluded did not 206 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: cause cancer in humans. However, we know from the sugar 207 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: episode that that study could have been flawed to like, yeah, 208 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of power and money involved in all 209 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 1: of this, and it's I don't. I don't know who 210 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: to trust, dear listeners um the although okay, okay, So 211 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,520 Speaker 1: it is true that the original researchers who were studying 212 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: saccharine who found that all that bladder cancer UM, they 213 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: had been using a breed of rats that are frequently 214 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: infected by this one parasite that leaves the rats susceptible 215 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: to bladder cancer m HM. So that's a strike against it. UM. 216 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: Further studies also revealed that rats urine is different from 217 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: humans urine. It contains different compounds, and some of the 218 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: compounds in rats urine react with compounds and sacharin and 219 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: create bladder damage. After a similar study was conducted on 220 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: the much closer to humans primates, UH did not produce 221 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: the same results as it had with rats. The primates 222 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: did not get bladder cancer. Sacron was removed from the 223 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: list of things that might cause cancer compiled by the 224 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: U S National Toxicology Program. The FDA in the state 225 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: of California followed suit in two thousand one, removing sacharine 226 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: from their list of potential carcinogens, and in the Environmental 227 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 1: Protection Agency the e p A did the same, stating 228 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: quote saccharin is no longer considered a potential hazard to 229 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: human health. The soft drink industry, which accounted for sev 230 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: of the five million pounds of saccarin news in the US, 231 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: fought against this labeling act, but they did not succeed 232 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: this time. This time, just this one. Yes. With cyclomy 233 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 1: out of the game, there was a power vacuum in 234 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: the world of artificial sweeteners. So we have to step 235 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: back a bit to n When researcher James Schlatter was 236 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: attempting to find a cure for stomach ulcers for G. D. 237 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: Searle and Company, You'll never believe what happened. What did 238 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: he did he lick his fingers? He totally did. He 239 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: accidentally licked his fingers and got a taste of something sweets. 240 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: As my World history teacher used to say, time is 241 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: like the coils of a slinky sweeter than sugar. It was. 242 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: This amino acid compound was given the name aspartain oh 243 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: oh aspartase aspertain. Both sugar and aspertain have about four 244 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: calories pergram, but since aspartame is so much sweeter, you 245 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: need way way less of it. Sarril started doing tests 246 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: right away in order to be approved as food additive 247 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: by the f d A. The first test was conducted 248 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty seven on seven monkeys. The monkeys were 249 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: fed a mixture of milk and aspertain over about a 250 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:55,280 Speaker 1: year long period. One died and five others had grandmall seizures. Yeah, 251 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: the methodology had several problems though there was no control 252 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: group for it's that's not a that's not a science. Yeah, 253 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: that's like, what were you even doing? Um, it was 254 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: not a good start. Searle released an internal memo detailing 255 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: a strategy to get the FDA on board with aspertain 256 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy. A year later, a neuroscientist by the 257 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: name of doctor John Only lets them know that his 258 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: test showed that the aspartic acid bit of ascertain calls 259 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: holes in the brains of baby minas. Yeah. This was 260 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: the same fellow who got monosodium glutamate removed from baby food. 261 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: Just just so you know, a researcher at Searle reproduced 262 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,520 Speaker 1: the same results of their own researcher came to the 263 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 1: same conclusion. The FDA delayed its release in due to 264 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 1: the resulting concern. Hey, maybe it causes brain chammers. Doctor 265 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 1: Only filed one of the first objections against aspertame that year, 266 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: one of two that he would file. The FDA investigated 267 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: Searle's lab, and the investigators reported that the data was 268 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: manipulated and that they had quote never seen anything as 269 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 1: bad as Searles testing. Yeah. Because of this, they formally 270 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: asked the Office of the U S Attorney to start 271 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: the process of a grand jury to investigate whether or 272 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: not Searles should be indicted for quote concealing material facts 273 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:20,479 Speaker 1: and making false statements. And you might recall from our 274 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 1: a miracle Very episode that this was the same year 275 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: that that company was intending to start selling the miracle 276 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: very extract miraculous which makes things taste much sweeter than 277 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: they are. Yeah. Yeah, interesting, interesting, it's it's a fun. Yeah, 278 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: it's a it's a heck of a coincidence. In seven 279 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 1: the FDA investigators released the Brestler Report, which revealed that 280 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: in one of Cearl studies, animal test subjects died and 281 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: then the autopsies were delayed, sometimes up for a year 282 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: up to a year. It also listed several inaccuracies and 283 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 1: consist season serial study. The grand jury was dropped later 284 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: that year when the Attorney General at the time resigned 285 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 1: and the statute of limitations on Aspertain ran out. But 286 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: remember this was the same year of Cyclomate's downfall and 287 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:22,480 Speaker 1: that harsh labeling accoun sacharin. Aspertain desperately wanted to fill 288 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: that void before anyone else did, but it was not 289 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: quite in the cards yet. Not yet. The f d 290 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: A had had a few more things to say. Two 291 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: years later, they established a public Board of Inquiry to 292 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: investigate Nutra Suite Aspertain. In nineteen eighty the p d 293 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: o I ruled that Aspertain should not be approved, not 294 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: until more research was done looking into the possible wing 295 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: to brain dreamers. But Aspertain forged ahead, entering the market 296 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,360 Speaker 1: in nineteen eight one under the name Neutra Suite. Oh 297 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 1: and for the here's where it gets even crazier tidbits. 298 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: This this is this is favorite. Yep. You know who 299 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: was CEO of searl Own Company in nineteen eighty one, 300 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 1: the same year that whole bunch of brain tumor report 301 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,399 Speaker 1: came out, which happened to be the same year that 302 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan became president. Who was that CEO? Why it 303 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 1: was Donald Rumsfeld. Donald Rumsfeld. Yeah, that Donald Rumsfeld. He 304 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: got a twelve million dollar bonus when Montatto acquired Searle 305 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: in n By the way, Rumseld was on Reagan's transition team. 306 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: This means he helped choose the new f D a commissioner, 307 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: and he chose pharmacologist, a pharmacologist who had no experience 308 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: working with food additives, one that Dr Arthur Hull Hayes Junior. 309 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 1: The day after his inauguration, Reagan voided the FDA's decision 310 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: on Searl with an executive order. Huh, I can't believe 311 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: he did this. The day after Searle wasted no time 312 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 1: reapplying Askertain to get FDA approval for its use as 313 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: a food sweetener, the new commissioner, Hayes, assembled a team 314 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: of five scientists to revisit the band on Ascertain, and 315 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,439 Speaker 1: in a three to one vote, they decided to uphold it. 316 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,160 Speaker 1: Oh so they were upholding the band, right, Okay, yeah, 317 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 1: but why do we have ascertain? Good question waren Uh? Well, 318 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 1: Hayes added another guy to the vote, you know, just 319 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: in case you can't do that. Oh he did, um, 320 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: and this new fellow tied the vote at three three. Okay, 321 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 1: So what happens if you tie a vote? Oh, you'll 322 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: never guess. The tiebreaker is Hayes. Oh no, and he 323 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: voted to overturn the band it is. By July he 324 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,920 Speaker 1: had approved of the use of ascertain and dried goods. 325 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: It was one of the few things he accomplished. Oh wow, 326 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: I wrote this a while ago, and that's one of 327 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: the few things he accomplished. Think he left really soon 328 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: after that. He did. Um. He had to overcome and 329 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 1: overlook a grand jury investigation and several reports and recommendations 330 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: claiming that ascertain was not fit for people by eating 331 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,959 Speaker 1: to get disapproved by the way, and by late he 332 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 1: had left YEP in part due to the increasing number 333 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: of accusations that he was accepting bribes from big corporations. 334 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: One of his last acts as FDA Commissioner was approving 335 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: Aspertain's use in beverages. He went on to work as 336 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: a medical advisor for Person Marsteller. Uh. They handled public 337 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: relations for both G. D. Serle and Monsanto. I believe um. 338 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow was quoted saying something along the lines of 339 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:49,880 Speaker 1: evil has Burston Marsteller on on speed dial all their 340 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 1: pr needs? Oh sick bird? Yeah, but hey so so 341 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,119 Speaker 1: speaking of beverages. Yeah, let's let's talk about beverages for 342 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: a second. That coke launched around the same time that 343 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 1: Nutra Sweet did, But the National Soft Drink Association the 344 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: n s d A was not on board with ascertainment. First, 345 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: they had a couple of concerns. One, aspertain is not 346 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: very stable in liquid form. It's kind of important for sodas. 347 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,200 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Two, And temperatures over eighty five degrees fahrenheit 348 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: are thirty degrees celsius. Aspertain breaks down into two known toxins, 349 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: formaldehyde and d KP. That is not good. However, the 350 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: FDA and the nsd A logged an official complaint with them. 351 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 1: The FDA believed that their concerns were more competition and 352 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: financially based. During the eighties and Nutra Sweet replaced over 353 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: a billion pounds of sugar over a billion pounds of 354 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,560 Speaker 1: sugar in the US. It can now be found in 355 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: over six thousand food products under the new brand name 356 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: a Mino Sweet. As far as those artificial packets skill 357 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: that you'll find on tables and restaurants, aspertain is known 358 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: as equal and um. To be fair to the f 359 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: d A, there, I'm sure there was competition involved coke. 360 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: It was who I think PEPSI had already adopted it, 361 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: so they had a head start, so they were like, oh, 362 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: you know, there was There's a lot of things at play. 363 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: The FDA does require products containing aspertain to come with 364 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,719 Speaker 1: a label stating that it should not be consumed by 365 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: people with certain liver disorders. People with genetic disorder finel 366 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: key to Norria are pregnant women with high levels of 367 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: finnel alanine in their blood. I was practicing saying that earlier, 368 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: and I got white tongue, which you just you just 369 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: nailed it, I hope. So that was that was great, um. 370 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: And and the reason for that is that people with 371 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: those disorders, the way that your body metabolizes some chemicals 372 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: is different from the normal average human person. And so 373 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: you could it wouldn't be good. It would be it 374 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: would have toxic effects aspartame due to those metabolistic differences. 375 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: Aspertained by the way is produced partially by farming bacteria 376 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: that excrete the compounds that are contained in aspertame, so 377 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,360 Speaker 1: yes aspartame as a result of my best most favorite 378 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: bacteria poop. Well, at least there's that. I was wondering 379 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,399 Speaker 1: if it was going to come up in this episode, 380 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: and there you go. This brings us to splendor or sucralose. 381 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: This was invented in nineteen when it's scientists working with 382 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: the team to bond sucros to chlorine. Miss her test 383 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 1: as taste and he tried some of the end product. Oh, 384 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: I'm really glad he didn't die. I am too. I 385 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: am very very glad. It was super sweet, six hundred 386 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,400 Speaker 1: times the sweetness of sugar. It was different from its 387 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: predecessor predecessors in two big ways. The human body can 388 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: metabolize it, and you could use it in baked goods 389 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 1: because it was heat stable. Thanks to that, it's now 390 00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,040 Speaker 1: at the top of the artificial sweetener food chain the 391 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: US because you can use it in big goods. Yeah. 392 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: In the FDA approved another artificial sweetener, a sulfame potassium, 393 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: for use in certain food and beverage categories. You might 394 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 1: know it as ace k or sweet one or senate. 395 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: I've never heard of any of those, but you might 396 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: know it. It's pretty soluble and also stable at high temperatures, 397 00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 1: so it can be used in all sorts of things. 398 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: In two thousand two, it was approved for general use 399 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 1: despite widespread use controversy. Oh so much controversy around the 400 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: use of these artificial sweeteners from the get go of 401 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: specially Aspertain. There was a whole group formed in called 402 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 1: Ascertain Victims and their friends incorporated. Yeah, and remember dr 403 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: Only from earlier. He was the one who had the 404 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: report about the bringing tumors possible connection to Aspertain. He 405 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,400 Speaker 1: published a study in nineteen that connected Aspertain to bring 406 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: tumors again again, However, it was later widely dismissed as 407 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: flawed and relying on in substantial data. Throughout the two thousands, 408 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: more research would seem to exonerate aspartame, showing no links 409 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: to cancer in mice in one intensive study and no 410 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: links to humans across a review of studies from and 411 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: also no links to humans based on data from over 412 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: half a million retirees in the National Institutes of Health 413 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: a ARP Diet and Health study. One study in rats 414 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: did find a link, but they refused to provide data 415 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: to the FDA for further perusal, and the FDA would 416 00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: dismiss their findings UH with a report that the study 417 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,440 Speaker 1: was flawed based on what little they did know about it. Similarly, 418 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 1: a study in mice that linked super loose or splendor 419 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: to blood cell tumors was dismissed interesting controversy or no. 420 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: Thanks to increasing concerns about sugar. We've talked abou that before. 421 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,640 Speaker 1: Coupled with American beauty standards, you know, need to be thin. 422 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: Consumption of artificial sweeteners shut way up in the nineties 423 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: and two thousand, Congress removed Saccurin's warning label that band 424 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: moratorium we mentioned earlier. Yeah, until this point, they've just 425 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,639 Speaker 1: been kind of renewing it every two years, put it 426 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: off it in two more years. Still kind of function 427 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: the same way in our government. Um, the FDA approved 428 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: stevia's use as a dietary supplement, and the wording is 429 00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 1: key there. Stevia comes from a South American plant and 430 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 1: has centuries long history of use by the locals to 431 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: sweeten things. And we'll have to do the whole whole 432 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: other episode on it. Absolutely, but in the context of 433 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: artificial sweeteners, several studies supported the idea that stevia was 434 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: safe at a daily intake level of four milligrams per 435 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: calogram of body weight. All products with artificial sweeteners have 436 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: a limit for the amount that can be used. By 437 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: the way, it's generally really really high, like you would 438 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,560 Speaker 1: have to eat or be eating the pure stuff or 439 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: more food items than I can personally imagine eating in 440 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: a single day. And that's quite a lot, that is 441 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: I can imagine. Yes, indeed, it is our job after all. Uh. 442 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 1: The FDA rejected Stevia's use as a food ingredient before 443 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 1: allowing it as a dietary supplement, under the condition it 444 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: has to be labeled as such. Canada and the European 445 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: Union have similar restrictions. And this brings us to Tagatives. Oh, 446 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: I had so much fun trying to understand this one. 447 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: Tagatives was developed by Sphers Incorporated and first entered the 448 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,640 Speaker 1: US market after the FDA gave it to go ahead 449 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 1: in two thousand three in the form of a diet 450 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: Pepsi slurpy diet Pepsi. Kela got a patent for it 451 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,959 Speaker 1: the previous year for use in quote improved sucros free, 452 00:29:51,080 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: non carcinogenic, reduced calorie influent independent cereals. That is quite name. 453 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: That is a health claim for sure. It is. This 454 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 1: stuff is currently the closest to sugar in the lot, 455 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: although I will say there's a lot of research ongoing 456 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: about this, so by the time this comes out that 457 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: could change, yes, but at the time of research this 458 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: was the case. It's a little less sweet than sugar 459 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: by about eight percent, but with of the calories it 460 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: bakes like sugar, and there are preliminary studies looking at 461 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,959 Speaker 1: its viability as an anti diabetic drug. The guy behind 462 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 1: tagatose is Gilbert Levin, and uh, this guy, he's very interesting. 463 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: While at John Hopkins University, he got the idea to 464 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: add nutrients laced with radiation to water samples, which would 465 00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: then give off small levels of radioactive carbon dioxide that 466 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,960 Speaker 1: could be detected with a Geiger counter. Okay, okay. He 467 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 1: intended it to be a way to more quickly test 468 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 1: if there was bacteria hang around, possibly with nefarious intent, 469 00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: in pools and in beaches, in beaches, at beaches. The 470 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: experiment worked, However, people were a little wary of radiation 471 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: and didn't really want anything to do with it, especially 472 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: in water that they might be you know, I can 473 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: I can see that. Yeah, yeah, those people, I don't know. 474 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,719 Speaker 1: He wasn't ready to give up on it, though, In 475 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: he convinced NASA to use his method to test for 476 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: life on Mars, which they did. Yeah, and the results 477 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: are positive. Wait what have we known about life on 478 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: Mars this whole time? I don't think so. No, Um, well, 479 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 1: Levin think so. NASA not so much, saying it was interesting, 480 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: but we can't jump straight to life on Mars from 481 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: those results of him. NASA told Levan basically, go back 482 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 1: to school, kid, and maybe we'll revisit this. And he did. 483 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: He returned to John Hopkins for environmental engineering, and while 484 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: there he learned about left handed sugar and right handed sugar. Okay, 485 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: what sugar? Sugar doesn't write things? How that? I had 486 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 1: so much fun explaining this to like anyone who would 487 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: listen over over the holidays. Okay, okay, all this has 488 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: to do with Chi reality reality or Kyle Chiral chemistry 489 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: is this principle that complex molecules have two forms, right 490 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: handed or left handed. A Wired article I was reading 491 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: about this gave a simple explanation I'm going to borrow 492 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 1: because it's great. Okay, If you hold your hands out 493 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: in front of you, with the palms facing each other, 494 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: each one representing a complex molecule, they're pretty much identical. 495 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: You lay one hand on top of the other hand, 496 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: they match up right. Uh, If, however, you lay one 497 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: hand on the other hand, like if put it down 498 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: on the table and then put the other one down 499 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: on top of it, they don't match up. Yeah, that's 500 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: your right handed and left handed molecule. And when it 501 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,760 Speaker 1: comes to molecules and not hands, it's the difference between 502 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: element structure. They are non superimposable. The Latin words for 503 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: right and left dexter and lavis different differentiate between de 504 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: glucose and L glucose. De gucos is what we know 505 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: as table sugar. Right handed sugar. L glucose is pretty rare. 506 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: Both D and L types respond the same in a 507 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,959 Speaker 1: chemical reaction, but not the same in a biological reaction. Okay, 508 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: inside your body, your stomach can digest D glucose, but 509 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: it doesn't do such a good job with L glucose. 510 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: Oh okay, ye see where this is going. Yeah, okay, 511 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: back to lemon. He got the idea that since our 512 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: body can't metabolize left handed sugar, it would pretty much 513 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: be the same as sugar, but with less calories. When 514 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: he did a taste test with right and left handed sugars, 515 00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: his test subjects couldn't tell the difference. So he acquired 516 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: ten patents for L glucos's use in food products and 517 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 1: spent the next five years trying out different options of 518 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 1: el glucose and ELF fructoes, but found them largely too 519 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: expensive to be viable. Then he tried a sample of 520 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: de tagatose after the producer accidentally sent it along in 521 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 1: the place of L tagatose. So de tactoes are right 522 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: handed tagatos as the molecular structure that closely resembles L 523 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: fruit tooes left handed fructos, which means that your stomach 524 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: has the same trouble digesting it as it would L 525 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: fruit toos, only able to absorb about His company, Spherics, 526 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 1: figured out a cheap way to make tagatos, and they 527 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,320 Speaker 1: patented the process in the eighties. It took about two 528 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: decades before they got the generally recognized as safe designation 529 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 1: from the FDA as a food additive. The Wired article 530 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,240 Speaker 1: I read about this was really positive, but there's still 531 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: a lot of research to be done. I couldn't find 532 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 1: much more about it, although I did find an article 533 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: on NASA's website about it. Um. Yeah, so, I mean 534 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: I'm skeptical. Maybe call me a cynic, but interesting, very interesting. 535 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,399 Speaker 1: I had such a good time reading about that one. Yeah. Yeah. 536 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: Neutra Sweet corporations twenty year campaign for superior sweetener led 537 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: to the development of a version of Ascertain they named 538 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: Neo Tame. It's similar to Ascertain, but it's more stable 539 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: and can be used in paid goods. Approved by the 540 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: FDA for generally use apart from meat in two thousand 541 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: to It first showed up in American stores in two 542 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,800 Speaker 1: thousands six. The reviews were mixed. I actually read it 543 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: kind of tastes like licorice. Yeah, it can range anywhere 544 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,719 Speaker 1: from seven thousand to thirteen thousand times the sweetness level 545 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: of sugar. With that sweetness, it takes a while, it 546 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: like builds up um and Yeah, with the flavor. People 547 00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,719 Speaker 1: weren't weren't too big a fans about it, So it's 548 00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:04,720 Speaker 1: usually combined with other artificial sweeteners. HUT approved another artificial 549 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 1: sweetener for general use again apart from meat and poultry. 550 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: That's similar to aspartain advent Ta. Yeah, it hasn't been 551 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: used in many things yet, still new, but those are 552 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: your those are your main ones. Yeah, and they Yeah, 553 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,319 Speaker 1: they do have a very hilarious and sad threat of 554 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: bad science and accidental licking of fingers. Practice good science 555 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 1: hygiene friends, please, uh while, and while you're doing that, 556 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:38,840 Speaker 1: we're going to take one more quick break for a 557 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor. Oh we're back, Thank you sponsor. Yes, 558 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,880 Speaker 1: thank you. I hope all your listeners were very hygienic 559 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: during that break. Yes, yeah, because we are about to 560 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: dig out or trying to dig out some of the 561 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: truth about the health effects of all of these artificial sweeteners. Yes, which, Oh, 562 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:12,760 Speaker 1: it's really tricky to do. I did a lot of reading, 563 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: and I feel like I came away more confused than 564 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: I started out with that quote like the more I 565 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: the more I know, the less I know or something. Yeah, 566 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,040 Speaker 1: it's usually applied or an iteration of it is often 567 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: applied to particle physics, like like if you think that 568 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: you know anything about particle physics, then you don't know 569 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: there is no spoon. Yeah, okay, So reasons why it 570 00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 1: is so difficult to get to the bottom of all 571 00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: of this nutritional health information about artificial sweeteners. First off, 572 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: some are relatively new, and you really do need to 573 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,280 Speaker 1: follow a cohort of people through essentially their entire lives. 574 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: To get a very good idea of the health effects 575 00:37:55,880 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: of of of what they consume. Yeah. A. Secondly, yeah, 576 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,920 Speaker 1: the human body is complicated and every person's body works 577 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,960 Speaker 1: a little bit differently, So isolating the health effects of 578 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: any single product is it's rough, even under the best 579 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: of scientific rigor and intention. And third, due to all 580 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: of that tremendous money and power that's involved in the 581 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: sugar industry, and that's also the artificial sweetener industry, no 582 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: one is sure how rigorous and well intentioned all of 583 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: this research into artificial sweeteners really has been. Yeah, who 584 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,400 Speaker 1: do we trust? I don't know this. This this is 585 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: one of those like I'm like genuinely like, it's a conspiracy. 586 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: It's all a conspiracy. Yeah. Um, but okay, So the 587 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:50,680 Speaker 1: big question is do artificial sweeteners really help people lose weight? 588 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: Do that? Unfortunately, science says probably not. Man A review 589 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: that was published in looked at thirty seven studies into 590 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: sugar substitute use and weight management and other health outcomes, 591 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: and it found that artificial sweetener use had no impact 592 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: on body mass index or even in some studies a 593 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 1: small increase in b m I, decline in kidney function, 594 00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 1: increase in the chance of developing type two diabetes and 595 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:26,839 Speaker 1: an increase the chance of cardiovascular events. And there are 596 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: hypotheses of plenty on why this might be Psychologically, Foods 597 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: made with sugar substitutes might lead you to binge on 598 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 1: real sugar products or or other foods later because you 599 00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: feel like you've been good can afford the splurge. Artificial 600 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: sugar stuff might also intensify your craving for sweets rather 601 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: than help you consume fewer sweet foods overall, right, kind 602 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: of like a tolerance building almost. Oh yeah, sure, sure. 603 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: Artificial sweeteners might affect the bacteria in your gut in 604 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,520 Speaker 1: ways that change your metabolism for the worse. UM. In 605 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:05,840 Speaker 1: studies with both mice and men, subjects that consumed artificial 606 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: sweeteners had changes in their gut microbiomes. Some organisms thrived 607 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: more than usual and the populations of others diminished. These 608 00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 1: changes were correlated with changes in the subjects glucose levels, 609 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: which began to indicate pre diabetic symptoms in some of 610 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:28,959 Speaker 1: those subjects. More research needs to be done, but yeah, yeah, 611 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,759 Speaker 1: who that found, that's perfect sound um And Studies and 612 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: animals have even shown that artificial sweeteners may change the 613 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: way that our body's process real sugar. Oh wow. This 614 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: also ties into the psychology thing a little bit. Rats 615 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: have been shown to lose the ability to regulate how 616 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: much real sugar food they eat and thus lose the 617 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 1: ability to moderate their weight after they've been given low 618 00:40:55,840 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: calorie artificials artificially sweetened foods. But this is also a 619 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,160 Speaker 1: biological response, so it's not just overeating. There's also biology 620 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,400 Speaker 1: going on. There's okay, So there's this phase of digestion 621 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,160 Speaker 1: that begins before food even passes your lips. What Yeah, 622 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: sounds crazy, but it's called the cephalic phase, and that 623 00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: is when the site smell or even the thought of 624 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: food triggers this kind of Pavlovian response, like we're hungry, 625 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: we're thinking about eating, So our nervous system, through our 626 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:33,400 Speaker 1: vagus nerve, gets our stomach ready to go by secreting 627 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,160 Speaker 1: digestive fluids and and doing all this other stuff. And 628 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: this preparation phase is thought to help our bodies control 629 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:44,279 Speaker 1: our sugar uptake when we do actually consume food, and 630 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,560 Speaker 1: research in rats has shown that that artificially sweetened foods 631 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 1: mess with that process. Animals that were switched back and 632 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: forth between artificially sweetened and real sugar based foods saw 633 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: blood sugar level spikes when they ate the real sugar 634 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:04,360 Speaker 1: stuff more than animals that were just fed regular sugar foods, 635 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: and even more disturbingly, animals that had been given artificially 636 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: sweetened foods and were then tube fed real sugar foods 637 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,440 Speaker 1: that would bypass their taste buds, they didn't get those 638 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:20,399 Speaker 1: blood sugar spikes. Again, like, more research needs to be done, 639 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: but this indicates, or seems to indicate rather that the 640 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 1: taste of artificially sweetened foods, followed by their lack of 641 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 1: cloric pay out during digestion, trains rats bodies to just 642 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: fork the heck out and grab up any real sugar 643 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,839 Speaker 1: available whenever they taste anything sweet, leading to greater weight 644 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 1: gain in the long run. One of the things that 645 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:46,640 Speaker 1: upsets me the most, and it's come up in several 646 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,760 Speaker 1: of our episodes, is when people think they're they're told 647 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,759 Speaker 1: they're marketed. You're making the healthier choice, or even not 648 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,200 Speaker 1: even healthier necessarily in this case, that you're gonna lose weight. 649 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: You're gonna lose weight right because you're going to be 650 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:04,920 Speaker 1: consuming fewer calories. Weight loss and period, and instead there's 651 00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: all yeah, I mean, and again, disclaimer a lot of this, 652 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: especially the research and animals. You know, you can't you 653 00:43:14,239 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: cannot make a one to one correlation there. But if 654 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 1: but if, but if this is true and it does 655 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,799 Speaker 1: line up with all of that other research that has 656 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,359 Speaker 1: been done in people that has not shown weight loss 657 00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:31,280 Speaker 1: success using artificial sweeteners. Yeah, there are so many articles 658 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,359 Speaker 1: about this. If you would like to do your own 659 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 1: research and try to make some sense of it, but 660 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:39,919 Speaker 1: I think we're just at a stage where we don't 661 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: know right now. I think, like the all everything I 662 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: was reading, the best advice, not that scientists are necessarily 663 00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,160 Speaker 1: you know, given advice that usually this is in the 664 00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:55,800 Speaker 1: articles about the science, but um, the best advice is 665 00:43:55,840 --> 00:44:01,480 Speaker 1: to try to switch to unsweetened foods wherever possible, you know, 666 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: no sweetener in your coffee, plain milk rather than a 667 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:11,879 Speaker 1: flavor flavored milk, plain yogurt rather than yeah yeah, and 668 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,839 Speaker 1: um I did notice when I did my like I'm 669 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: going to control all the sugar and artificial sweetener that 670 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: you do, there is sort of a tolerance that you 671 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,480 Speaker 1: build and then when you get rid of it, um, 672 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: you'll find that things are it doesn't take as much 673 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 1: to sweetened things. Oh absolutely, yeah. I I switched from 674 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:36,319 Speaker 1: diet sodas to unsweetened iced tea a few years ago, 675 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,720 Speaker 1: and it took a minute. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's not easy. 676 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,399 Speaker 1: It was so bitter every it was so better at first, 677 00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: and I was really unhappy about it, but once I 678 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 1: got used to it. Yeah, I've always had kind of 679 00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:51,320 Speaker 1: a low tolerance for sugar and dessert, but sweetened beverages 680 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 1: especially taste so sweet to me now, unbelievably sweet. Yeah 681 00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,040 Speaker 1: me too. Um so I don't know you know it. 682 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: And and and that's also not to not to preach at you, 683 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: like why haven't you done that? No, no, no, just 684 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,840 Speaker 1: that this is something you're concerned about or looking into. 685 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:12,080 Speaker 1: These are our experiences. Yeah, yeah, this, this is, this 686 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: has worked kind of for us. We're functioning. So I 687 00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: just made this like wishy washy. Hey, we both we 688 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 1: both put on pants today, we're both we're both in 689 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:28,360 Speaker 1: a podcast studio doing our jobs. Success success, Yes, I 690 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,360 Speaker 1: ate cookies for lunch. It's fine, depending on how you 691 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: define success. That succeeds. I don't know, because feel it 692 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 1: sounds good to me. That brings us to the end 693 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:45,320 Speaker 1: artificial steers. Yeah, you know, with a couple of footnotes 694 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 1: to come back to things later. Yeah. If if you 695 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,680 Speaker 1: are you are left with any questions, then right in 696 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 1: and let us know. Yeah. But in the meanwhile, let's 697 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,200 Speaker 1: hear from a couple of people who have already written 698 00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: in to let us know some things she's talking about. Listener, mail, 699 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:05,319 Speaker 1: Listen to mail. Okay, First, I wanted to start out 700 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: with a shout out to Kirston. She sent us a 701 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: mock you podcast called Stuff in your Face and it 702 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,640 Speaker 1: was awesome. Yes, it was so good. Can keep them 703 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:22,240 Speaker 1: coming please? Yeah, delightful. It was really delightful. Kenrick wrote, 704 00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: I love listening to your podcast, but I hate what 705 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,320 Speaker 1: it does to my stomach. I listened to your popcorn 706 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:30,839 Speaker 1: episode while eating a huge bowl of it, immediately had 707 00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: to get donuts after the jelly donut episode, and had 708 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,480 Speaker 1: to stop the cheese podcast midway to go buy a 709 00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,680 Speaker 1: cheese plotter because my stomach growled so badly. I am 710 00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:43,359 Speaker 1: an outdoor enthusiast and I always bring a cold coke 711 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: for the last peak I'm off. It's something to look 712 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,319 Speaker 1: forward to, and the caffeine and sugar boos helps my 713 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,560 Speaker 1: weary muscles. I had just begun an eight mile three 714 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,640 Speaker 1: peak hike in Phoenix, Arizona, when I decided to listen 715 00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 1: to your Soda episode. I just couldn't resist the degree. 716 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,640 Speaker 1: Weather certainly help, and I drank my peak coke after 717 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,840 Speaker 1: the first mile. Don't worry, I only blame myself. Yeah, 718 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,279 Speaker 1: this is a major problem we face this. Oh yeah, yeah, 719 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,160 Speaker 1: that's I. As I mentioned in our McDonald's episode, I 720 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:19,759 Speaker 1: can see a McDonald's location from my desk, and if 721 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,480 Speaker 1: I hadn't forgotten my wallet today, I certainly would have 722 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: gone downstairs and ordered a fancy, fancy burger and fries 723 00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:30,280 Speaker 1: for lunch. I think that I've given in many times, 724 00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: but the Ramen one was the one where I like, 725 00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,040 Speaker 1: I had to Yeah, that was That was one of 726 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:42,440 Speaker 1: the more intense ones. Yes, oh Ramen, oh Raman, here's 727 00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:46,840 Speaker 1: one that we might not necessarily given to. We have 728 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: not yet. Uh Leta wrote in about Durian. I hadn't 729 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,360 Speaker 1: heard about this fruit until I told my coworker that 730 00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: I was traveling to Thailand this past fall. Pretty Much 731 00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 1: the first thing he told me was to watch out 732 00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,719 Speaker 1: for Duryan. I laughed and didn't think about it until 733 00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: I arrived in Thailand a few months later, and let 734 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:09,200 Speaker 1: me tell you, it was everywhere. My friend wanted to 735 00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 1: store her giant suitcase at the airport, and that was 736 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 1: where I saw my first no cut duryan sign. Then 737 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: I turned to the corner and the and the dairy 738 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,919 Speaker 1: queen in the airport had durry and blizzards. Nearly every 739 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,120 Speaker 1: day I saw some form of dury and sold in 740 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,399 Speaker 1: the street markets. I'm ashamed to say that I wasn't 741 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,560 Speaker 1: brave enough to try fresh duryan while I was there. However, 742 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: I brought home some daury and toffee's more like a 743 00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,279 Speaker 1: taffy than a toffee, and some freeze dried duryan to 744 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:37,520 Speaker 1: share with my coworker. The toffees were just generally sweet 745 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,319 Speaker 1: and not too smelly. The freeze dried duryan, on the 746 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,600 Speaker 1: other hand, Oh all, let me just say I shouldn't 747 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,600 Speaker 1: have opened it in my office. First of all, I 748 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,120 Speaker 1: opened the vacuum sealed bag and the smell hit me 749 00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: in the face, only to realize that the actual pieces 750 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,680 Speaker 1: of fruit were still sealed in little individual bags. The 751 00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,640 Speaker 1: smell was so strong, But we were brave and tried 752 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,800 Speaker 1: it anyway. To me, it tasted like garlic and onions, 753 00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,279 Speaker 1: but not in a good way. The flavor stuck with 754 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: me the rest of the day, and I had many 755 00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:09,919 Speaker 1: dry in burbs for so long. We threw away the rest, 756 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:12,600 Speaker 1: but the smell continued to fill my office, so I 757 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,600 Speaker 1: switched my trash can with one in an empty office 758 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 1: down the hall. I'm assuming that the freeze dried version 759 00:49:19,160 --> 00:49:21,960 Speaker 1: doesn't do fresh dairy injustice, so I guess I'll just 760 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,720 Speaker 1: have to venture back to Thailand and be brave this time. 761 00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,440 Speaker 1: We've got to try this, Lauren. Yeah, I found I 762 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,920 Speaker 1: found some. I found some some some fresh frozen, some 763 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:36,680 Speaker 1: whole frozen dry in at one of our local international markets. 764 00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,879 Speaker 1: And I mean they're huge. Yeah, they're normal. They're big. 765 00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,440 Speaker 1: They're like they're like the size of my head. Yeah, 766 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,440 Speaker 1: we need it. I don't want to become a pariah 767 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,600 Speaker 1: on the office. Oh no, no, no no, no, outside. Yeah, 768 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,920 Speaker 1: we need to find a place outside. Yeah I do 769 00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:55,279 Speaker 1: have a backyard. Oh yes, how would your roommates feel? 770 00:49:55,640 --> 00:50:04,919 Speaker 1: Oh you know whatever, Okay, whatever, Hello Lawrence. Sorry. Thank 771 00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,320 Speaker 1: you to all of you guys for writing in and 772 00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:11,200 Speaker 1: for the Mocky podcast. Here soon that was awesome. If 773 00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: you would like to write in, you can do so 774 00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,680 Speaker 1: our emails food Stuff at how stuff works dot com. 775 00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: We're also on social media. You can find us on 776 00:50:18,160 --> 00:50:21,480 Speaker 1: Twitter and Facebook at food Stuff. Hs W stands for 777 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:24,760 Speaker 1: how Stuff Works. We're also on Instagram at food Stuff. 778 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,880 Speaker 1: We hope so much to hear from you. Thank you 779 00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:31,919 Speaker 1: to our amazing producer Dylan with a beautiful smile, and 780 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,239 Speaker 1: thanks to you all for listening, and we hope that 781 00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,960 Speaker 1: lots more good things are coming your way.