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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: At this point into the war between Israel and Hamas,

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Speaker 2: it's difficult to get more than anecdotal evidence out of Gaza.

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Speaker 2: Almost every organization that once provided aid and monitored civilian

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Speaker 2: welfare is no longer allowed in or has ceased operations.

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Speaker 2: Very few journalists are left there, but reports of a

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Speaker 2: civilian population facing a hunger crisis are widespread. Experts word

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Speaker 2: Gaza's are the brink of famine.

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Speaker 3: Hamas rob steals this humanitarian aid and then excuses Israel

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Speaker 3: of not supplying.

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Speaker 1: Our doctors, our nurses, our health teams aren't confirming that

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Speaker 1: manutrition rates are increasing in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: To understand the reality on the ground, I talked to

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg reporters around the world focused on what's happening in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ethan Broader, I'm the Israel bureaer chief for Bloomberg.

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Speaker 3: I'm Magdalena Delbaie, and I cover the un here.

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Speaker 4: My name is Faris al Ghul. I'm a reporter for

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Speaker 4: a Bloomberg governing Gaza.

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Speaker 1: The people in Gaza are in a crowded place that

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Speaker 1: is dependent on foreign aid, and they cannot leave the.

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Speaker 3: Un is trying and they say they have enough food

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Speaker 3: to feed the population of Gaza, but they just need

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Speaker 3: to be let.

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Speaker 4: In and Gaza, they are people suffering and there is

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Speaker 4: no safe passage for the civilians out into safety.

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Speaker 2: They can't leave.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they can't leave.

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Speaker 2: I'm David Gura, and this is the big take from

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg News Today. On the show, we bring together reporting

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Speaker 2: from around the globe to understand how a hunger crisis

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Speaker 2: unfolded in Gaza despite months of warnings and what it

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Speaker 2: would take to end it. Reporter far Is al Ghoul

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Speaker 2: is from Gaza, but he's currently based in Canada. Far

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Speaker 2: As told me that before the October seventh, twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: three terror attacks Hamas and the war Israel started in response,

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Speaker 2: Gaza was producing a lot of its own food.

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Speaker 4: Gaza had achieved self sufficients when it comes to vegetables.

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Speaker 4: They were actually exporting vegetables like tomato and bland to

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Speaker 4: the West Bank and Israel, and in the winter and

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Speaker 4: spring Gaza would export strawberry to the West Bank and

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Speaker 4: to some Arab countries.

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Speaker 2: But back then, Israel Bureau Chief Ethan Browner says Gaza

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Speaker 2: relied heavily on international aid for schools and other essential services,

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Speaker 2: including food. After Hamas's deadly attack on October seventh, during

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Speaker 2: which it took two hundred and fifty people hostage, the

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Speaker 2: Israeli government cut the flow of aid into Gaza. Was

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Speaker 2: this the likelihood of there being a hunger crisis something

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Speaker 2: that Israelis were thinking about, or talking about, or considering

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Speaker 2: in the early days of this war.

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Speaker 1: No, the early days of this war showed an Israel

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Speaker 1: completely devastated, humiliated, fright, and furious about the October seventh attack.

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Speaker 1: There was no sense that it was Israel's job to

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Speaker 1: worry about feeding the people in Gaza. That's partly because

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Speaker 1: I think Hummas had been running Gaza for the previous

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Speaker 1: sixteen years, and Israelis were never giving a lot of

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Speaker 1: thought about to their role and how that worked.

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Speaker 2: As the fighting between Israel and Hamas ratched it up

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Speaker 2: after October seventh, nearly two thirds of the Palestinian population

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Speaker 2: in Gaza was almost immediately dislocated and lost access to

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Speaker 2: the land where they farmed. In the first month of

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Speaker 2: the war, even before Israel began a ground invasion of Gaza,

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Speaker 2: retaliatory airstrikes killed over seven thousand people, according to Gaza authorities.

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Speaker 2: Many heads of state and experts on the conflict warned

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Speaker 2: that there could be devastating consequences, but in those early days,

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Speaker 2: most of the international community supported Israel's response, that included

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Speaker 2: critically then US President Joe Biden, if.

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Speaker 1: The United States stands with Israel, we will not ever

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Speaker 1: fail to have their back. He came here a week

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Speaker 1: or so into the war, which was an act of

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Speaker 1: incredible loyalty, and the Israelis were just amazingly grateful. They

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Speaker 1: just couldn't believe it. But when it felt that the

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Speaker 1: Israelis were being insufficiently careful about protecting civilian lives, then

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Speaker 1: dividen administration started talking about withholding arms, and then things

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Speaker 1: got tense. And that's pretty much where they remained until

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Speaker 1: the administration switched.

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Speaker 2: In President Trump. NETANYAHUO appears to have an ally he

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Speaker 2: both gets along with and who sides with him consistently,

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Speaker 2: but even says there are clear limits to how much

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Speaker 2: influenced Trump has over Netan Yahoo.

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Speaker 1: They have a strong bond. I would say that both

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Speaker 1: are nakedly quite transactional and political in their handling of

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Speaker 1: all of their relations. But I have to tell you

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Speaker 1: that there are certain things that this Prime Minister and

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Speaker 1: those around him believe in so strongly that I think

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Speaker 1: if Trump were to demand of Israel to do certain

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Speaker 1: things like except the Palestinian state or stop worrying about

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Speaker 1: defeating Hamas, I believe that this government would say, Sir,

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Speaker 1: we will do this on our own. We will fight

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Speaker 1: with our fingernails if we have to, we will live

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Speaker 1: without your weapons.

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Speaker 2: President Trump's inauguration coincided with a cease firing Gaza that

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Speaker 2: lasted nearly two months, but when fighting resumed, there was

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Speaker 2: a noticeable drop off in AID here. As far as Algol,

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Speaker 2: who reported on how it changed.

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Speaker 4: In the previous administration, at least the AID continued to

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Speaker 4: enter into Gaza, not necessarily enough, but the minimum. During

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Speaker 4: Drum's administration, we have seen periods of time in which

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Speaker 4: not single truck into Gaza, and the administration look okay

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Speaker 4: for that.

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Speaker 2: As food availability in Gaza deteriorated, groups sounded the alarm

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Speaker 2: about the effects of food shortages over.

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Speaker 1: The past twenty two months. From the very first week

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Speaker 1: or two, AID organizations were warning that Gaza was on

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Speaker 1: the brink of starvation, that it was starving, that it

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Speaker 1: was famine, and much of that seems to have not

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Speaker 1: ultimately been true in those early months or that first

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Speaker 1: period of time, and so they became a crying wolf

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Speaker 1: question in which Israel would say, you see, they're constantly lying,

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Speaker 1: and so we're not going to worry about it. And

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Speaker 1: then when it actually seemed to be somewhat true, Israel

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Speaker 1: was caught in a very difficult situation in which much

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Speaker 1: of the world believes that this has been a policy

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Speaker 1: to starve people. That's not my sense. I think it

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Speaker 1: was carelessness and an inability to calculate properly. I think

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Speaker 1: they miscalculated. I think they believed that ordinary people were

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Speaker 1: stalking up they were not, and so suddenly, when there

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Speaker 1: was nothing available, ordinary people were in desperate shape.

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Speaker 2: Because of restrictions is has put in place on foreign

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Speaker 2: aid workers and foreign journalists, it's been impossible to get

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Speaker 2: a full sense of what's happening on the ground in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: This raises urgent questions about whether the world will even

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Speaker 2: know if the scales fully tip after the break. What

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Speaker 2: we do know about the food crisis on the ground today,

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Speaker 2: almost two years into the war in Gaza, Israel has

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Speaker 2: taken control of all checkpoints into Gaza, including the Rafa

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Speaker 2: crossing with Egypt. My colleague Magdalena de Vayer covers the

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Speaker 2: United Nations for Bloomberg. She describes what that means in

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Speaker 2: practical terms.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes they let UNAID trucks in, sometimes they don't. Now

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Speaker 3: there's countries doing air drops and things like that, but

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Speaker 3: the best way to actually get food to the people

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Speaker 3: of Gaza is by car through the roads, and Israel

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Speaker 3: controls those roads and often they don't want to let

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Speaker 3: people in.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't mean that international agencies aren't trying to get

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Speaker 2: food into Gaza and distribute it. Israel stopped working with

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Speaker 2: the UN's United Nations Relief and Works Agency at the

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Speaker 2: beginning of the war, and other groups are now trying

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Speaker 2: to do what the United Nations used to do.

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Speaker 3: There's the World Food Program and all sorts of organizations

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Speaker 3: that are trying to work together to get food in.

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Speaker 3: But there's way more food that they want to get

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Speaker 3: in than that actually gets in.

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Speaker 2: Magdalene says. The situation took a turn for the worse

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Speaker 2: on March eighteenth, when the ceasefire ended and Israel put

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Speaker 2: Gaza under a blockade. By then, the Trump administration had

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Speaker 2: effectively shut down USAID, the UN's most important partner in

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Speaker 2: the supply and distribution of aid, and.

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Speaker 3: The UN was struggling to kind of get aid in

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Speaker 3: there by themselves. They had say ten trucks that they

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Speaker 3: had ready to deliverate, and maybe one day five made

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Speaker 3: it in, another day maybe three made it in.

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Speaker 4: This is just food for two months. Not sin Kaarin

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Speaker 4: Wood has entered Gaza.

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Speaker 2: That's Bloomberg's forest Augoul again forrest is Israel restricted entry

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Speaker 2: for many reasons, but a main one was concerned about

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Speaker 2: how Hamas might use the AID and control its distribution.

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Speaker 4: So Israel has accused Hamas of diverting aid, and not

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Speaker 4: only Israel, many residents of Gaza also speak about that.

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Speaker 4: I spoke to Ahama's official and he said, we take

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Speaker 4: twenty five percent of the AID as a government to

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Speaker 4: provide it for our civil servants, for the doctors, for

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Speaker 4: the hospitals, and the clinics and the rescue workers. He

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Speaker 4: didn't deny it because Israel doesn't want any role for

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Speaker 4: Hamas and handling the AID. It would strike or target

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Speaker 4: Hamas members policing track convoys. This has also opened a

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Speaker 4: way for people to steal or loot the aid. They

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Speaker 4: would stop the convoys and unload them, so we stopped

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Speaker 4: seeing a fair distribution of it. This also has contributed

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Speaker 4: to the crisis.

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Speaker 2: In May, after two months of that blockade, the US

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Speaker 2: backed a new aid organization that said it would step

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Speaker 2: in and distribute food. The Gaza Humanitarian Foundation was based

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Speaker 2: in Switzerland until the Swiss government ordered its offices closed.

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Speaker 2: Now it's headquartered in Delaware.

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Speaker 3: The US gave them thirty million dollars and then they

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Speaker 3: got another thirty million dollars from We're not one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent sure where the GHF doesn't disclose who funds them.

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Speaker 3: We're not sure. They were launched in May to kind

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Speaker 3: of do what the UN had been doing. Israel had

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Speaker 3: approved of this organization to be the one that delivered

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Speaker 3: aid in Gaza. They wanted some sort of system that

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Speaker 3: could keep hamas out of this aid, but from the

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Speaker 3: get go it had a lot of hurdles.

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Speaker 2: The GHF aimed to feed one million people within its

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Speaker 2: first week.

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Speaker 3: The day it was launched, the Coeo quit. He resigned

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Speaker 3: hours before the launch because he was concerned over the

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Speaker 3: independence and impartiality of the organization, and so this was

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Speaker 3: kind of the first hurdle that they had to get over.

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Speaker 3: They got a new started delivering aid, but then very

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Speaker 3: often people would get killed near these sites.

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Speaker 2: Part of the problem with HF AID sites is the

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Speaker 2: way they're set up. Forrest Alcohol has reported for Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: that the design and placement of the aid sites has

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Speaker 2: led to violence.

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Speaker 4: The distribution of aid through the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is

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Speaker 4: taking less and militarized. The sites in a dangerous road

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Speaker 4: which is overseen by the Israeli military. There are frequent

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Speaker 4: did the incidents surrounding the aid process, not inside the

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Speaker 4: distribution center, but around it or on the routes leading

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Speaker 4: to them. More than seven hundred people have been killed

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Speaker 4: while waiting for the aid, waiting for dg at Chap

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Speaker 4: sites to open, or when they were going there to

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Speaker 4: get the aid. The source of fire is it challenged

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Speaker 4: here because in most of the cases the Israeli military

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Speaker 4: denied involvement. On the other hand, Hamas accuses the Israeli

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Speaker 4: military of targeting the people.

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Speaker 2: Even when Palestinians managed to get aid from a GHF site,

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Speaker 2: it can be challenging to get supplies home.

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Speaker 4: They distribute their randomly on the basis first come, first serve.

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Speaker 4: So many people in Gaza cannot walk five or six

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Speaker 4: kilometers on foot and return carrying a box weighing twenty

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Speaker 4: kilo grams. Let's not forget that the people in Gaza

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Speaker 4: are very weak because of the starvation.

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Speaker 3: There were a lot of issues and a lot of

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Speaker 3: international organizations were saying that the GHF should get shut down.

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Speaker 3: The UN refused to work with the GHF because they

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Speaker 3: say they don't meet their requirements for humanitarian assistants.

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Speaker 2: A couple of weeks ago, there was a hint that

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Speaker 2: the UN and GHF are trying to find a way

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Speaker 2: to work together.

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Speaker 3: The GHF and the UN had a meeting at the

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Speaker 3: US Mission to the UN, but it was very secretive,

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Speaker 3: so we don't actually know what was said there. There

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Speaker 3: were no phones allowed. It happened on Wednesday, and we

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Speaker 3: kind of only found out about it later in the week,

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Speaker 3: so we don't know.

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Speaker 2: In recent days, the GHF has begun operating women only

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Speaker 2: distribution sites, which were designated to get food to women

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Speaker 2: and children safely and directly, according to the GHF ex account,

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Speaker 2: As the war in Gaza grinds on, This is all

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Speaker 2: culminated in what the UN says is a hunger crisis.

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Speaker 2: Far As says that when he talks to his sources

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Speaker 2: on the ground, he hears the same things over and

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Speaker 2: over again.

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Speaker 4: Most of the people I know, and most of the

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Speaker 4: people I speak to say they sleep hungry, They skip

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Speaker 4: Bay meals because simply they are not available. They cannot

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Speaker 4: calm down their children when they cry because they want

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Speaker 4: the food.

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Speaker 2: The question isn't whether many Gossans aren't getting enough to eat.

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Speaker 2: It's clear they're not. But the language used to describe

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Speaker 2: the severity of the crisis can impact the global response.

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Speaker 2: At the end of July, the United Nations reported the quote, you,

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Speaker 2: out of three famine thresholds have been reached in Gaza,

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Speaker 2: plummeting food consumption and acute malnutrition, mounting evidence of famine,

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Speaker 2: they said, but because they were unable to demonstrate deaths

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Speaker 2: due to malnutrition, they couldn't call it that.

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Speaker 3: They can't call it a famine just because of semantics. Really,

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Speaker 3: people from different UN organizations have been there, have talked

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Speaker 3: to people, and they come back and they say, yeah,

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Speaker 3: we've never seen anything like this. One third of the

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Speaker 3: population isn't eating for days at a time. The number

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Speaker 3: of children who's died from malnutrition has surpassed one hundred

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Speaker 3: since the war started, and they say that three hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand children are at severe risk of acute malnutrition. So

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Speaker 3: it's really really bad. You can't call it a famine,

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Speaker 3: but it doesn't matter. It's getting there.

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Speaker 2: In a statement, the Israeli government denied there's famine in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: It said it studied the situation on the ground and

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Speaker 2: reviewed the deaths of specific individuals and concluded quote, there

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Speaker 2: are no signs of a widespread malnutrition phenomenon among the population.

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Speaker 2: In part of the disconnect between the situation on the

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Speaker 2: ground and how it can be described is due again

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Speaker 2: to the blocking of journalists and aid groups, and also

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Speaker 2: to the dissolution of Gaza's healthcare system. Gaza's health ministry

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Speaker 2: is run by Hamas, which has made it more complicated

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Speaker 2: for international groups to trust their published figures. The finger

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Speaker 2: pointing and denying persisted as the crisis worsened over the

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Speaker 2: spring and early summer, but things got so bad on

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Speaker 2: the ground and enough media coverage got out that even

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Speaker 2: some of Israel's staunchest allies began to express concern, including

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Speaker 2: President Trump, who pushed back on the Israeli government's assessment.

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Speaker 1: Some of those kids are that's real starvation stuff. I

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Speaker 1: see it, and you can't fake that. So we're going

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Speaker 1: to be even more involved.

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Speaker 2: The Israeli military did begin to let more aid through

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Speaker 2: in August, but far As cautioned against taking the development

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Speaker 2: at face value.

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Speaker 4: Even the Israeli government's recent announcement that they are stepping

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Speaker 4: up it deliveries to Gaza is marketed as a breaking through.

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Speaker 4: We talk about one hundred the trucks idea, but this

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Speaker 4: remains far below the number of the trucks that Gaza need,

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Speaker 4: which is at least six hundred trucks.

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Speaker 2: Idea coming up, what it would take to change the

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Speaker 2: situation in Gaza and what Netan, yahoo Hamas and Trump

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Speaker 2: are considering next. In my conversations with Magdalena del Vier,

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Speaker 2: Forrest Alghul, and Ethan Bronner, it was clear that there

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Speaker 2: were many warnings that a hunger crisis could take hold

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Speaker 2: in Gaza. I asked them what at this point could

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Speaker 2: turn the situation around and whether the steps necessary are

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Speaker 2: it all aligned with what the major players in the

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Speaker 2: conflict are weighing next. Far As summarized the case, some

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Speaker 2: A groups are making for letting AID in and letting

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Speaker 2: people out.

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Speaker 4: The Institution Assembly allow more it AID into Gaza through

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Speaker 4: the crossing blands, increase derivice of AID, allows safe passages

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Speaker 4: and droughts for the civilians, open back crossings for those

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Speaker 4: who want to survive.

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Speaker 2: Magdalene and de Vayer, who covers the United Nations for Bloomberg,

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Speaker 2: said that the UN continues to call for another ceasefire

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Speaker 2: in order to surge and aid and determine the appropriate

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Speaker 2: course of action.

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Speaker 3: What the UN has said over and over again is

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Speaker 3: that they need a ceasefire in order to be able

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Speaker 3: to properly assess and fix the situation, because right now

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Speaker 3: it's just impossible to get all their con within. And

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Speaker 3: you know, it also puts people who work for the

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Speaker 3: UN in danger when they go in there, so there

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Speaker 3: needs to be the right conditions for them.

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Speaker 2: Another ceasefire is of course dependent on the Israeli government

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Speaker 2: and Homas coming to an agreement through negotiators. I ask

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Israel Bureau chief Ethan Brauner, how Israelis have reacted

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Speaker 2: to what they've heard about Gaza and if that's created

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Speaker 2: any internal pressure on their own government.

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Speaker 1: So for Israelis, for these twenty two months, there has

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Speaker 1: been virtually no interest except for the left in this

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Speaker 1: country and the human rights organizations. The almost obsessive interest

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Speaker 1: in this country has been on the hostages as well

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Speaker 1: as on their soldiers. A percentage of five or ten

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Speaker 1: percent of the population just feel that their government shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be doing this terrible thing, But that is a very

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Speaker 1: small percentage. This is a country that feels under siege

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Speaker 1: after October seven.

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Speaker 2: But as the world took notice of the hunger crisis

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Speaker 2: in Gaza, so have more Israelis.

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Speaker 1: That began to change when the notion that there was

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Speaker 1: real hunger broke through, when suddenly you couldn't completely deny it.

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Speaker 1: So it is discussed some on TV, some in newspapers,

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Speaker 1: but broadly it's all about, you know how there are

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Speaker 1: lies out there that the hunger isn't as real as

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Speaker 1: it is being portrayed, and we're losing the public relations battle.

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Speaker 2: The public relations battle's phrase the Israeli government and media

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Speaker 2: often used to describe the global narrative and who has

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Speaker 2: the greatest sympathy on the world stage at that point

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Speaker 2: in time. In Israel, that battle is being won by

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Speaker 2: the government. The vast majority of press is aligned with

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Speaker 2: the government and does not publish the Palestinian side of

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Speaker 2: the narrative. Meanwhile, since the beginning of the war, Israel

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Speaker 2: has largely restricted international journalists from reporting on the ground

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Speaker 2: in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a mistaken policy of the government of

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Speaker 1: Israel to bar foreign journalists or any journalists from going

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Speaker 1: into Gaza. This is my fourth tour as a journalist

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Speaker 1: here in Israel. In the two thousand and eight two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine war against Hamas journalists were barred from

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Speaker 1: going into Gaza. We the Foreign Press Association sued the

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Speaker 1: government and the Supreme Court ordered the government to let

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Speaker 1: us in. The change in the society is evident by

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Speaker 1: the fact that the current Supreme Court has turned us

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Speaker 1: down time and again has sided with the government against us.

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Speaker 2: The lack of media coverage means the world has increasingly

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Speaker 2: little insight into what is actually happening day to day

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Speaker 2: in Gaza, and that could become even more urgent as

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Speaker 2: Israel prepares its next major military operation, the seizure of

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Speaker 2: Gaza City.

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Speaker 1: Israel control seventy to seventy five percent of the Gaza strip.

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Speaker 1: There are parts around the central refugee camps and around

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Speaker 1: Gaza City which are heavily populated that the army is

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Speaker 1: not operating in and where we believe the remaining hostages

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Speaker 1: are being held, and Israel is planning to force those

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Speaker 1: people to leave and then to go in and to

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Speaker 1: do what it can to destroy the hamas, military infrastructure

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Speaker 1: and the command structure in those areas. So they're looking

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Speaker 1: at a very difficult for both sides battle in the

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Speaker 1: coming weeks or months.

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Speaker 2: The Israeli government is bolstered by the shared sentiment of

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Speaker 2: nearly eighty percent of the Israeli people who responded to

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Speaker 2: a recent survey that they are not so troubled or

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Speaker 2: not at all troubled by events in Gaza, and though

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Speaker 2: only forty percent of Israeli's trust that in Yahoo according

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Speaker 2: to recent polling, the government appears intent on this next phase,

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Speaker 2: regardless of the impending humanitarian crisis it could trigger.

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Speaker 4: For it says, if the Israeli military steps up its efforts,

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Speaker 4: we will see more damage and displacement, and this would

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Speaker 4: contribute negatively into the humanitarian crisis, because the more the

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Speaker 4: Israeli ground the forces rolled into Gaza, the more humanitarian

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Speaker 4: infrastructure is damaged, so we will see more displacements. And

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Speaker 4: many people say this time we will not heed the

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Speaker 4: orders to evacuate, because even in the areas that the

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Speaker 4: Israeli military designates as safe, air strikes and attacks and

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Speaker 4: chilling still happened and they claimed the lives of many people.

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Speaker 2: If this is really ground defensive, is meant to pressure

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Speaker 2: ha Mass into surrendering, Ethan Bronner doesn't see how that

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Speaker 2: will work.

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Speaker 1: Israel misunderstood Hamas before the war. It believed that it

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Speaker 1: was deterred that it would not engage in this kind

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Speaker 1: of attack. It has also failed to understand that this

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Speaker 1: is not a group of people who can be pressured

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Speaker 1: into giving up the hostages and into giving themselves up

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Speaker 1: and to giving up their dreams to have a holy

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Speaker 1: Islamic state, which is their goal. So I don't see

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Speaker 1: that changing quickly.

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Speaker 2: Then there's international pressure to stop the fighting, not just

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Speaker 2: a temporary kind of pause, but a permanent ceasefire.

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Speaker 1: The plan that many would like the Prime Minister to

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Speaker 1: go ahead with, which would be to bring in the

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Speaker 1: Saudis and the Amortis and the Egyptians and to stop fighting.

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Speaker 1: To do what you can to get the hostages out

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Speaker 1: and to try to replace Hamas with a Palestinian authority

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Speaker 1: led situation. He has rejected that he believes that that

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Speaker 1: will lead to a reconstruction of Humas again in five

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Speaker 1: or seven years, that the Palestinian authority is insufficiently strong

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Speaker 1: to withstand that kind of pressure, and he has said no.

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Speaker 2: As the international community tries to push for a diplomatic solution,

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Speaker 2: several countries have declared their intent to recognize a Palestinian

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Speaker 2: state when the UN General Assembly meets in September.

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Speaker 3: So that's definitely something that's gained a lot of traction.

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Speaker 3: There was a conference on Palestinian statehood where all the

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Speaker 3: member states discussed west forward and what the world would

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Speaker 3: look like after the war ended. The US has not

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Speaker 3: participated in these kinds of things, so the two outliers

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Speaker 3: in these conversations are the US and Israel.

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Speaker 2: As for the US, in Israel, NETANYAHUO has an ally

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Speaker 2: in Trump for the foreseeable future. Even if Trump has

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Speaker 2: called for more aid into Gaza, the biggest political change

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Speaker 2: that could happen may actually be on the horizon in Israel.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I could see happening would be Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister Danyao has to call an election within the next

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Speaker 1: fourteen months. He could do so and lose, and then

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Speaker 1: a government that would be more amenable to the plan

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Speaker 1: I just laid out could come into power and that

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Speaker 1: could change it. But other than that, I think we're

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Speaker 1: in for a pretty long, tough, violent time in gossip.

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Speaker 2: This is The Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerra.

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Speaker 2: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access

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Speaker 2: to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: dot com slash podcast offer. If you liked this episode,

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Speaker 2: make sure to follow and review The Big Take wherever

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.