WEBVTT - The Net Neutrality War

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm an executive producer with iHeartRadio and how the tech

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<v Speaker 1>are here? So several years ago, during the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 1>here in the United States, the Federal Communications Commission, or FCC,

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<v Speaker 1>held a vote to repeal an earlier set of rules

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<v Speaker 1>called the Open Internet Order. The board of the FCC,

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<v Speaker 1>made up of five appointees, voted three to two to

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<v Speaker 1>repeal those rules, despite the fact that there were concerns

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<v Speaker 1>there was hanky panky going on when the FCC sought

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<v Speaker 1>out public opinion on the matter. Currently, the Attorney General

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<v Speaker 1>for the state of New York is composing fines on

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<v Speaker 1>several companies found to have been guilty of essentially stuffing

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<v Speaker 1>the ballot boxes. As it were, These companies apparently impersonated

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<v Speaker 1>more than a million US citizens posting fake comments to

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<v Speaker 1>the FCC that were in favor of the repeal of

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<v Speaker 1>these rules. Considering that the FCC justified its vote on

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<v Speaker 1>the matter at least partly and it being a reflection

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<v Speaker 1>of the will of the people, this is bad and hey,

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<v Speaker 1>if you have to rig a system in order to win.

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<v Speaker 1>Then by definition, you're really a loser. So I thought

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<v Speaker 1>maybe we'd look back on what net neutrality is. What

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<v Speaker 1>is that concept? Why is there a debate about net neutrality?

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<v Speaker 1>Because there is, And while I am firmly in the

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<v Speaker 1>net neutrality camp, I acknowledge there are points being made

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<v Speaker 1>by people who are against net neutrality that you can't

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<v Speaker 1>just wave off. There are some valid points on the

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<v Speaker 1>other side. But what do the difference have to say

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<v Speaker 1>about net neutrality? Why is it tricky for the FCC

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<v Speaker 1>to enforce net neutrality? And how does the presence or

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<v Speaker 1>absence of net neutrality affect people like you and me? Now,

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<v Speaker 1>when I say you and me, I mainly mean people

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<v Speaker 1>here in the United States for this specific case, but

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<v Speaker 1>there are other places where this is an issue too.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, obviously there are places in the world where

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<v Speaker 1>the government takes a much more active role in what

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<v Speaker 1>people can or cannot access on the internet. Here in

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<v Speaker 1>the US, Ideally you're supposed to be able to access

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much anything, but that's not necessarily how it turns out.

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<v Speaker 1>So first, let's define net neutrality. When you boil it down,

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<v Speaker 1>net neutrality is all about treating the ones and zeros

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<v Speaker 1>that are zipping across the Internet as if they're all

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<v Speaker 1>the same, which, by the way, some of the founders

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<v Speaker 1>of the or you know, people who created the protocols

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<v Speaker 1>of the Internet, say was never their intent. Vince Surf

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<v Speaker 1>and Bob conn have both said that they never intended

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<v Speaker 1>for all packets to necessarily be treated the same when

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<v Speaker 1>they were building out TCPIP protocols, which is interesting. Net

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<v Speaker 1>neutrality means that the various entities that own the infrastructure

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<v Speaker 1>or the pipes if you are a series of tubes,

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<v Speaker 1>if you like. If we're going to go way back

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<v Speaker 1>into the analogies of the Internet anyway, net neutrality says

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<v Speaker 1>that the companies that own that infrastructure should allow traffic

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<v Speaker 1>to flow through those pipes no matter where that traffic

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<v Speaker 1>originated from. So there should be no preferential treatment. There

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<v Speaker 1>should be no slowing of someone else's zeros and ones,

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<v Speaker 1>there should be no blocking a competitor from accessing your infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 1>It's meant to keep the Internet a machine that lets

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<v Speaker 1>information go to wherever it needs to go to without

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<v Speaker 1>being hindered along the way. This definition has actually expanded

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit over the years. Back when folks were

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<v Speaker 1>first starting to talk about net neutrality. Really, the only

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<v Speaker 1>way you could access the Internet was by computer, the

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<v Speaker 1>only meaningful way that most people could access was by computer. However,

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<v Speaker 1>since then, we've had a revolution of devices that can

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<v Speaker 1>tap into the network of networks that include smartphones and

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<v Speaker 1>tablets and Internet of Things devices, even some vehicles or

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<v Speaker 1>accessing information on the Internet. So another element of the

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<v Speaker 1>concept of net neutrality tends to be that you should

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<v Speaker 1>be able to access information on the Internet no matter

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<v Speaker 1>what device you are using to do so. So, if

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<v Speaker 1>a company happens to own some of the infrastructure of

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<v Speaker 1>the Internet, and also happens to be involved in the

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<v Speaker 1>creation of hardware, it would be against the principles of

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<v Speaker 1>net neutrality for that company to allow its own devices

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<v Speaker 1>access to its pipes. But did I entry to anyone else.

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<v Speaker 1>So in other words, let's say that you have an

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<v Speaker 1>ISP and the ISP is offering to lease you a

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<v Speaker 1>modemen router. So as part of your service, you can

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<v Speaker 1>essentially rent a mode and a router from this company,

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<v Speaker 1>which means that you are adding to your monthly bill. However,

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<v Speaker 1>you could just go out and buy a modem and

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<v Speaker 1>a router and then have that connected to your service,

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<v Speaker 1>which might require some extra steps to get it activated

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<v Speaker 1>because it's not part of the proprietary system, but it

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<v Speaker 1>should be fine. The ISP should not block you from

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<v Speaker 1>using some other motiven router just because it doesn't come

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<v Speaker 1>from them, and that would in turn mean you would

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<v Speaker 1>spend less on your monthly ISP bill because you're not

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<v Speaker 1>renting from them. One then neutrality says is that such

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<v Speaker 1>an ISP couldn't come out and say no, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to use our stuff or you can't use

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<v Speaker 1>anything else. These ideas are not just abstract concepts. Many

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<v Speaker 1>companies involved in at least some part of the Internet

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<v Speaker 1>infrastructure are also content providers. In other words, they don't

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<v Speaker 1>just own the pipes that stuff is moving through, they

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<v Speaker 1>create some of the stuff that's going through those pipes.

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<v Speaker 1>So one of the big examples centering around net neutrality

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<v Speaker 1>for years was that a company like Comcast, the largest

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<v Speaker 1>telecommunications company in the world, which has its own online

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<v Speaker 1>content products that's putting it lightly because they own NBC Universal,

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<v Speaker 1>they might purposefully slow down or block traffic coming from

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<v Speaker 1>some other content service like Netflix, And so that would

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<v Speaker 1>mean if you're a Comcast customer, and you're trying to

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<v Speaker 1>connect to Netflix, you might end up hitting some some

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<v Speaker 1>traffic slowdown, like things might take a while to buffer

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<v Speaker 1>before you can watch them. But curiously, if you were

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<v Speaker 1>to switch to Comcasts owned and operated streaming services, there's

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<v Speaker 1>no such slowdown. It just loads super fast and you

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<v Speaker 1>can watch without problems. So potentially that could drive customers

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<v Speaker 1>to subscribe to Comcast's own services and to not subscribe

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<v Speaker 1>to competitors, which seems to be a little bit anti competitive, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, why make a better product if you can

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<v Speaker 1>just block your customers from getting to a competitor, Right,

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<v Speaker 1>You don't need to make anything great if you can

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<v Speaker 1>just prevent anyone from having a choice. If you're the

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<v Speaker 1>only game in town, you don't have to make your

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<v Speaker 1>game better. And you might think, hey, that does sound

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<v Speaker 1>kind of anti competitive, and you're absolutely right it is.

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<v Speaker 1>And keep in mind that here in the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>many people have very few options when it comes to ISPs. So,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, I live in an area. I am in

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<v Speaker 1>the city of Atlanta, not just like in metro Atlanta.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm in the city and I have precisely one option

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to a provider that can give me

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<v Speaker 1>speeds higher than one hundred and fifty megabits per second.

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<v Speaker 1>So one option is not an option, right, That's it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all I've got. The other quote unquote options are

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<v Speaker 1>for significantly slower speeds. So I could go with a competitor,

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<v Speaker 1>but one and I would not be paying significantly less,

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<v Speaker 1>and two, I would be getting a service that is

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<v Speaker 1>significantly slower. So if I go to a site by

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<v Speaker 1>the way that checks for providers based on my ZIP code,

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<v Speaker 1>I get tons of options for insanely fast connectivity, like

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<v Speaker 1>way faster than what I actually have. But if I

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<v Speaker 1>actually go through the steps to get to a point

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<v Speaker 1>where I would order such a service, by the time

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<v Speaker 1>you get to the last step, you get a message

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<v Speaker 1>that essentially says we're sorry that service isn't available at

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<v Speaker 1>your location or something like that, which just shows that

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<v Speaker 1>I am in that position where that a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people are in in the United States where you do

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<v Speaker 1>not have options when it comes to your choice or provider,

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<v Speaker 1>so there is no competition in your particular area and

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<v Speaker 1>you're left with whatever is there. And that means that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, if I don't have a choice in provider,

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<v Speaker 1>if I want a good broadband speed, and if that

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<v Speaker 1>provider were to decide to discriminate against other competes editors,

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<v Speaker 1>I just wouldn't be able to get that content, or

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<v Speaker 1>at least it would be a real hassle for me

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<v Speaker 1>to get that content. I wouldn't have an option to

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<v Speaker 1>view that in any other way. Even if I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to subscribe and I wanted to be a paying customer,

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<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't be able to see, say, the stuff on

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<v Speaker 1>Netflix if Comcast decided, no, we're going to block Netflix's content.

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<v Speaker 1>So net neutrality is meant to make sure that doesn't happen,

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<v Speaker 1>where you don't have a fractured internet where depending upon

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<v Speaker 1>your ISP you can access certain columns of content but

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<v Speaker 1>not others. And if you're on a different ISPs, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a totally different shakedown of what you can and can't access.

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<v Speaker 1>It becomes a less useful tool, right, the Internet becomes

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<v Speaker 1>broken at that point. If you and another person are

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<v Speaker 1>on two different services, you have two totally different experiences

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<v Speaker 1>of what the Internet is because of those restrictions. That's

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<v Speaker 1>what net neutrality is supposed to prevent. Now let's get

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<v Speaker 1>into the complicated legal quagm around net neutrality. So here

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<v Speaker 1>in the US, we've got ourselves a handy dandy law

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<v Speaker 1>called the Communications Act of nineteen thirty four. And yes,

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<v Speaker 1>in order to understand net neutrality in its path through

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<v Speaker 1>the US, we have to start nearly a century ago.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, technically we could go back even further and

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<v Speaker 1>go back beyond a century to talk about stuff like railroads,

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<v Speaker 1>which I guess you could say laid the track for

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<v Speaker 1>some of the concepts around net neutrality. But I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to be kind, I'm not going to go back quite

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<v Speaker 1>that far. So the Communications Act of nineteen thirty four

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<v Speaker 1>set a whole bunch of ground rules to try and

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<v Speaker 1>untangle the chaotic mess that was threatening to make communication

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<v Speaker 1>an unfair and uneven landscape. The Act sets out rules

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<v Speaker 1>for assigning frequencies for broadcasts and coming up with rules

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<v Speaker 1>for stuff like commercials and setting various standards. And it

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<v Speaker 1>also established the Federal Communications Commission or f c C, which,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, in its rule states that at least

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<v Speaker 1>one member must be of a different party, So you

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<v Speaker 1>can't have an FCC that's made up entirely of Democrats

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<v Speaker 1>or Republicans or whatever. It has to have a balance,

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<v Speaker 1>and by balance I mean at least one member has

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<v Speaker 1>to be the opposing party. That Act largely classified communications

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<v Speaker 1>companies as common carriers, that is, they fall under a

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<v Speaker 1>regulatory body, in this case, the FCC that enforces rules

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<v Speaker 1>to ensure that these carriers treat everyone fairly. A common

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<v Speaker 1>carrier can't deny service on the grounds of discrimination. For example,

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<v Speaker 1>it can't be that two people show up and one

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<v Speaker 1>person is allowed to use the service and the other

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<v Speaker 1>one isn't, and there's no legal reason for the discrimination.

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<v Speaker 1>This concept goes all the way back to the railroads.

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<v Speaker 1>So for communications networks, it helped create an environment in

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<v Speaker 1>which telephone companies couldn't deny access to their own lines

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<v Speaker 1>to other companies. And that's good because you didn't want

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<v Speaker 1>a situation where the only folks you could talk to

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<v Speaker 1>on the phone would be fellow customers of the same

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<v Speaker 1>phone company you belong to. The Communications Act of nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>thirty four set out these common carriage rules in the

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<v Speaker 1>section called Title iiO. Now, there were seven sections or

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<v Speaker 1>titles in the nineteen thirty four Act, and Title two

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<v Speaker 1>are the ones that are subject to regulation under the

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<v Speaker 1>authority of FCC. However, a bunch of other communications services

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<v Speaker 1>were deemed different enough from these to fall under Title I,

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<v Speaker 1>which did not allow the FCC the authority to regulate them.

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<v Speaker 1>So certain services were considered immune to this like they

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<v Speaker 1>were exceptions to regulation. And largely the thought was that

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<v Speaker 1>regulation could potentially inhibit growth and innovation, and therefore these

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<v Speaker 1>younger forms of communication should not be stifled by regulation.

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<v Speaker 1>And then Title II was a different story. Now, over

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<v Speaker 1>the years, some of the measures of the nineteen thirty

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<v Speaker 1>four Act had unintended consequences. For example, it helped the

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<v Speaker 1>rise of monopolies, namely AT and T, which essentially had

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<v Speaker 1>a total monopoly on the phone industry in the United

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<v Speaker 1>States until it was forced to break up into several

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<v Speaker 1>other companies in the nineteen eighties. That story is its own,

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<v Speaker 1>super complicated mess, and it goes beyond what we'll talk

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<v Speaker 1>about here. Things got more complicated with the invention of

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<v Speaker 1>cable television and other innovations, and you had weird rules

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<v Speaker 1>that would allow phone companies to do one thing and

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<v Speaker 1>cable companies to do something else. And we were rushing

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<v Speaker 1>toward an era where everybody was essentially allowing digital information

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<v Speaker 1>to pass over their networks, and yet there were different

0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.440
<v Speaker 1>rules in place as to which companies could do what.

0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 1>So things were getting messy, so the government would try

0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:58.640
<v Speaker 1>to fix it, and it got messier. I'll explain more

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:11.040
<v Speaker 1>after we come back from this quick break, Okay. So

0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.520
<v Speaker 1>cable companies first emerged in the late forties and really

0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 1>grew in like the seventies and eighties, and there were

0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.600
<v Speaker 1>some amendments to the Communications Act that changed things a

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.680
<v Speaker 1>little bit, but what was really needed was a new

0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.280
<v Speaker 1>approach to telecommunications and that's when we got the Telecommunications

0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Act of nineteen ninety six. So this was the first

0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.640
<v Speaker 1>major rewrite of communication law in more than sixty years.

0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.840
<v Speaker 1>This Act was meant to ease off on some regulations

0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.680
<v Speaker 1>in an effort to encourage more competition in the industry.

0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.600
<v Speaker 1>And it gets way more complicated from there. And a

0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.040
<v Speaker 1>full disclosure, I am not a lawyer. Waiting through the

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.800
<v Speaker 1>mountains of documents to get a firm handle on these

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.960
<v Speaker 1>various designations would take me ages. So I'm actually relying

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.840
<v Speaker 1>heavily on the work of other people here, and trust me,

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 1>like I was following up and trying to go down

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.880
<v Speaker 1>to other rabbit holes and find, you know, things that

0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.400
<v Speaker 1>I could specifically cite. And it got hard. A lot

0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.040
<v Speaker 1>of sources out there make some pretty general claims that

0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:16.680
<v Speaker 1>I think mostly are correct, but they get details wrong.

0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:22.800
<v Speaker 1>And that's infuriating because I don't have a month to

0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:26.800
<v Speaker 1>just read legal documents to figure out what's the best

0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 1>way to communicate this is. So I'm going to be

0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.560
<v Speaker 1>painting in some pretty broad strokes. But in nineteen ninety six,

0:15:31.600 --> 0:15:34.680
<v Speaker 1>the Internet was still a pretty young entity, at least

0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.080
<v Speaker 1>to the general public. I mean, most of the general

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.640
<v Speaker 1>public had no idea what the Internet was before the

0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.360
<v Speaker 1>World Wide Web started to take shape, and even then,

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:49.560
<v Speaker 1>the web was a pretty niche interest area, mostly like

0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:55.760
<v Speaker 1>students and some businesses and government agencies. So we're ignoring

0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:58.080
<v Speaker 1>the fact that you folks had been working on the

0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.400
<v Speaker 1>network of networks for a couple of decades at this point.

0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the Internet wasn't like it was brand new, period.

0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:06.240
<v Speaker 1>It was just something that for a lot of people

0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.320
<v Speaker 1>was an unknown entity until really the nineties. We were

0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.280
<v Speaker 1>just starting to gear up toward the fervor that would

0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 1>lead to the dot com bubble in nineteen ninety six,

0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.360
<v Speaker 1>and so there was kind of a need to address things.

0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 1>The nineteen ninety six Act made a lot of changes.

0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 1>It made it okay for different types of companies to

0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:28.760
<v Speaker 1>jump into the business that was usually restrained for other industries.

0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:34.000
<v Speaker 1>So what this really meant was that two giant industries

0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:38.920
<v Speaker 1>were able to suddenly compete against one another. So you

0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>had telephone companies which normally just offered telephone services, but

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:48.960
<v Speaker 1>now because of the way that information could travel, could

0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.200
<v Speaker 1>actually also offer up video channels to subscribers. Then you

0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.200
<v Speaker 1>had cable companies that said, hang on, we can offer

0:16:56.400 --> 0:17:00.280
<v Speaker 1>telephone services to our customers. Dogs and cats living together,

0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:05.160
<v Speaker 1>mass hysteria. And it was not clear at first whether

0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:09.199
<v Speaker 1>or not it would be legal for these industries to

0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:13.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of branch out and to start to incorporate the

0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:18.040
<v Speaker 1>services of other industries into their own. This was a

0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:22.119
<v Speaker 1>muddy ground. The Act also defined, and I use the

0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 1>term loosely, the concept of information services. So these are

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:31.959
<v Speaker 1>services that are all about sending, retrieving, storing information across

0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:38.119
<v Speaker 1>telecommunications services. So they're all the companies that facilitate information

0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:43.240
<v Speaker 1>moving from one point to another along various communication lines.

0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.720
<v Speaker 1>By the way, communication lines aren't always physical lines because

0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.520
<v Speaker 1>they this can include stuff like radio signals and that

0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:55.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of thing. Now, information services would fall under Title

0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.239
<v Speaker 1>one services. That would mean the FCC would not have

0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.400
<v Speaker 1>the legal authority to regulate any business that was classified

0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.520
<v Speaker 1>as Title one. So if a business were deemed to

0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 1>be about information services, about the facilitating of information moving

0:18:10.520 --> 0:18:14.520
<v Speaker 1>across networks, they'd be Title one and the FCC couldn't

0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:17.160
<v Speaker 1>burst in and tell them how to do stuff. Now,

0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.720
<v Speaker 1>putting aside the complicating factor that a lot of companies

0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:26.400
<v Speaker 1>that facilitate the movement of information also own the infrastructure

0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.359
<v Speaker 1>that the information is moving across, that they are a

0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:33.720
<v Speaker 1>telecommunications company, it would mean that if they were deemed

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.400
<v Speaker 1>an information services company, the FCC would not be able

0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:41.680
<v Speaker 1>to weigh in on their business, even though they also

0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.280
<v Speaker 1>would perform as a telecommunications company. At least the FCC

0:18:45.320 --> 0:18:48.720
<v Speaker 1>couldn't do so with any actual authority. The FCC could try,

0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.560
<v Speaker 1>but then the company could sue the FCC, take it

0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.800
<v Speaker 1>to the courts, and the courts would determine whether or

0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:59.360
<v Speaker 1>not the FCC actually had the authority to regulate, and

0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:03.000
<v Speaker 1>this began to raise concerns in the field of network communications.

0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.560
<v Speaker 1>So keep in mind that back in the nineties and

0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:10.480
<v Speaker 1>even into the early two thousands, folks weren't too concerned

0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.399
<v Speaker 1>about where the Internet was going yet, because it was

0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:18.480
<v Speaker 1>still fairly primitive, websites weren't particularly sophisticated. We had only

0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.399
<v Speaker 1>seen hints at what would become the uses that would

0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.720
<v Speaker 1>demand increasing amounts of bandwidth. So you weren't going to

0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.080
<v Speaker 1>be able to watch an ultra high definition movie on

0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:31.800
<v Speaker 1>streaming back in two thousand. For example, services like YouTube

0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:35.800
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't come along until the mid two thousands. But even

0:19:35.920 --> 0:19:40.160
<v Speaker 1>though most uses of the Web and the Internet weren't

0:19:40.240 --> 0:19:43.440
<v Speaker 1>super bandwidth heavy, some people were starting to get a

0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:48.560
<v Speaker 1>little concerned about the lack of rules and regulations for

0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.520
<v Speaker 1>ISPs to follow. So they could see the writing on

0:19:51.560 --> 0:19:55.520
<v Speaker 1>the wall, ISPs would have an incentive to manage demand

0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:58.800
<v Speaker 1>on their networks. Now you can manage demand a lot

0:19:58.800 --> 0:20:01.080
<v Speaker 1>of different ways. You could do is you could try

0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:04.080
<v Speaker 1>and build out your infrastructure so it can handle more traffic,

0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:08.320
<v Speaker 1>but that requires a huge investment to do. Another thing

0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.240
<v Speaker 1>you could do is you could insert impediments to heavy

0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.439
<v Speaker 1>duty users of the Internet. You know, maybe slow down

0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.280
<v Speaker 1>stuff that would have a really heavy demand on the

0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:20.760
<v Speaker 1>bandwidth of your network, just throttle it so that way

0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:24.800
<v Speaker 1>everybody else can still use your network without having their

0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:30.399
<v Speaker 1>experience impacted as a result. Heck, maybe you identify something

0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.960
<v Speaker 1>that's causing huge spikes and Internet traffic across your network

0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:36.359
<v Speaker 1>and you just block it entirely. It's not like the

0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.600
<v Speaker 1>FCC could do anything about it because your title one service. Baby.

0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 1>They would come down and say, hey, you can't block

0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:46.080
<v Speaker 1>this content, and you'd just say, yeah, I can, because

0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.359
<v Speaker 1>you can't stop me. You don't have the authority to

0:20:48.400 --> 0:20:51.520
<v Speaker 1>do it. Also, keep in mind this was the time

0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.760
<v Speaker 1>when peer to peer networks and piracy were starting to

0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.880
<v Speaker 1>go banana. That complicates things because not only did those

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.520
<v Speaker 1>activities boost network activity right you started to see spikes

0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:07.600
<v Speaker 1>in network traffic, you also had these massive entertainment studios,

0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:10.880
<v Speaker 1>some of which would end up merging with these ISPs

0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.400
<v Speaker 1>that were threatening to bring down the hammer of thor

0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:18.080
<v Speaker 1>on anyone who facilitated the illegal sharing of intellectual property.

0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:21.520
<v Speaker 1>So you had the internal pressure of wanting to keep

0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:26.160
<v Speaker 1>your network moving smoothly. You had external pressures saying, hey,

0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.240
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of illegal activity going across your network

0:21:29.280 --> 0:21:31.239
<v Speaker 1>and if you don't do something about it, there's going

0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.119
<v Speaker 1>to be a problem. And it all led to concerns

0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:38.440
<v Speaker 1>that again, the entire landscape of Internet access in the

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:43.679
<v Speaker 1>United States could become unfair, uneven, fractured. Even so, tons

0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.200
<v Speaker 1>of cable companies really pushed the FCC to classify their

0:21:47.200 --> 0:21:50.480
<v Speaker 1>services as Title I, as information services in other words,

0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:53.080
<v Speaker 1>rather than Title two, which would mean they would be

0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:57.120
<v Speaker 1>a carrier service or a cable provider as defined under

0:21:57.160 --> 0:22:02.400
<v Speaker 1>the rarely mentioned Title three. So Title two common carriers

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:06.879
<v Speaker 1>essentially Title III cable provider. The cable companies were saying, Oh,

0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.080
<v Speaker 1>we're not cable providers. We're information services. That's really what

0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:12.160
<v Speaker 1>we are. Yeah, some of us, some of our customers

0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.520
<v Speaker 1>are using our services to watch cable, but we're just

0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:19.880
<v Speaker 1>information services. We fall under Title I, and that would

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:23.440
<v Speaker 1>mean that these cable companies could operate under less regulation, which,

0:22:23.520 --> 0:22:25.480
<v Speaker 1>to be fair, meant they could get away with a

0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.040
<v Speaker 1>whole lot more shenanigans than if they were forced to

0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.639
<v Speaker 1>play by a more strict set of rules. Now, some

0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.600
<v Speaker 1>would argue the looser regulations would give companies the chance

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:37.680
<v Speaker 1>to create better services for customers, and that it could

0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.440
<v Speaker 1>lead to greater competition between providers in an effort to

0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:42.720
<v Speaker 1>find the best strategy to make a profit. It just

0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.000
<v Speaker 1>didn't turn out to do that. But yeah, this is

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:48.640
<v Speaker 1>often an argument you will hear against regulation, the fear

0:22:48.680 --> 0:22:52.800
<v Speaker 1>that regulation will stifle competition and innovation, and as a result,

0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:55.800
<v Speaker 1>none of us get the really cool new stuff that

0:22:55.840 --> 0:22:58.399
<v Speaker 1>we would get if the government would just back the

0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.280
<v Speaker 1>heck off. Problem is, when the government does back the

0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:04.760
<v Speaker 1>heck off, often what we see as one company start

0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:08.879
<v Speaker 1>to dominate an industry, and then there's no incentive for

0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:13.280
<v Speaker 1>the company to innovate because that company already has all

0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:15.680
<v Speaker 1>the customers, Like, you don't need to win the customers.

0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.720
<v Speaker 1>You've got them all, So where's the incentive to do better.

0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.960
<v Speaker 1>It's a very complicated thing. And of course things got

0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.800
<v Speaker 1>even more messy because the FCC agreed that cable based

0:23:26.800 --> 0:23:30.320
<v Speaker 1>ISPs would fall under Title IE, and this angered other

0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:34.919
<v Speaker 1>types of ISPs like DSL providers. Right, so a cable

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.000
<v Speaker 1>company that was an Internet service provider would be a

0:23:38.040 --> 0:23:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Title one service, but a DSL company that provided Internet

0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:47.000
<v Speaker 1>service would be considered a Title TiO entity, which meant

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.760
<v Speaker 1>the DSL companies were saying, hey, you're giving cable companies

0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:54.400
<v Speaker 1>an unfair advantage. You're not imposing these rules on them,

0:23:54.960 --> 0:23:58.639
<v Speaker 1>but you are on us. Where's the logic in that?

0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.640
<v Speaker 1>So the whole matter went to court, and things kind

0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:04.240
<v Speaker 1>of flip flopped around for a bit. At one point,

0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:07.880
<v Speaker 1>the court found that the FCC had misclassified cable ISPs

0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:11.120
<v Speaker 1>and said that they had to classify cable companies as

0:24:11.200 --> 0:24:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Title TiO because they were clearly telecommunications companies and not

0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:19.840
<v Speaker 1>just information services. And then the cable industry appealed this decision.

0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:23.359
<v Speaker 1>The whole thing ultimately went to the Supreme Court, and

0:24:23.480 --> 0:24:28.880
<v Speaker 1>the Supreme Court, led by Clarence Thomas, overturned that decision

0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:31.879
<v Speaker 1>and said ISPs belong in the realm of Title I,

0:24:32.160 --> 0:24:35.399
<v Speaker 1>that the FCC did not make a mistake. Clarence Thomas

0:24:35.400 --> 0:24:39.520
<v Speaker 1>at some point allegedly said he regretted that decision, which

0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:42.640
<v Speaker 1>I mean the fact that he's capable of self reflection

0:24:42.760 --> 0:24:45.600
<v Speaker 1>should be a matter to celebrate, I guess, but doesn't

0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 1>change the fact that that decision became the president. So

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:53.560
<v Speaker 1>cable companies were Title IE, DSL was Title II. Now

0:24:53.600 --> 0:24:55.879
<v Speaker 1>by this time you had lawmakers in the US realized

0:24:55.920 --> 0:24:58.600
<v Speaker 1>that without certain protections in place, it was possible that

0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:02.520
<v Speaker 1>the whole Internet would become a fragmented, broken landscape, that

0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:06.520
<v Speaker 1>some ISP customers could have one experience and others would

0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:10.240
<v Speaker 1>have a much more inferior one because of these various

0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:13.760
<v Speaker 1>throttle rules and blocking and all that kind of stuff.

0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Maybe one ISP has access to most of the Internet

0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:21.560
<v Speaker 1>and another one doesn't, or maybe a powerful company potentially

0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:25.800
<v Speaker 1>stifles another one, thus killing innovation, doing the opposite of

0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:31.359
<v Speaker 1>what everyone was hoping the Title I classification would do. So,

0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:34.600
<v Speaker 1>the FCC came up with some basic ideas that would

0:25:34.640 --> 0:25:38.080
<v Speaker 1>form the foundation of net neutrality. So this was around

0:25:38.160 --> 0:25:41.479
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and four, pretty late in the game, almost

0:25:41.480 --> 0:25:45.240
<v Speaker 1>a decade after the Telecommunications Act was passed, and these

0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:49.919
<v Speaker 1>net neutrality principles were fairly straightforward. One said that a

0:25:49.960 --> 0:25:52.920
<v Speaker 1>customer should be able to access whatever information they want

0:25:53.600 --> 0:25:56.960
<v Speaker 1>on the Internet, provided that the information is legal. You know,

0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:00.000
<v Speaker 1>there were exceptions for stuff like pirated content, for example,

0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:03.520
<v Speaker 1>So it wasn't that you could access everything no matter

0:26:03.520 --> 0:26:06.200
<v Speaker 1>what your ISP was, but rather, if it was legal,

0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:10.440
<v Speaker 1>the ISP should not block a customer's access to that information.

0:26:11.280 --> 0:26:14.080
<v Speaker 1>The bit about using whatever device you wanted was in

0:26:14.119 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 1>those guidelines too, that an ISP shouldn't be able to

0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:18.960
<v Speaker 1>say no, you can't use x device. You have to

0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:21.680
<v Speaker 1>buy why device from us. That would be against the

0:26:21.720 --> 0:26:24.919
<v Speaker 1>principles of net neutrality. Plus consumers should be able to

0:26:25.000 --> 0:26:28.720
<v Speaker 1>use whatever applications they wanted, again, assuming those applications are legal,

0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:33.200
<v Speaker 1>and other similar principles like the basic ideas behind net neutrality,

0:26:33.359 --> 0:26:36.280
<v Speaker 1>and they're great, but it didn't change the fact that

0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:39.360
<v Speaker 1>the FCC didn't have the actual authority to enforce these

0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:43.720
<v Speaker 1>principles on any entity that was designated as Title I. Also,

0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:48.600
<v Speaker 1>by this time, DSL companies had successfully campaigned to become

0:26:48.680 --> 0:26:53.240
<v Speaker 1>reclassified under Title one, so we no longer had DSL

0:26:53.320 --> 0:26:56.080
<v Speaker 1>as Title II, and cable was Title one. Now both

0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:59.440
<v Speaker 1>were Title I services. So in other words, the FCC

0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:02.439
<v Speaker 1>was saying, hey, everybody, you got to play fair, but

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:05.720
<v Speaker 1>they didn't have any actual authority to make anyone play fair.

0:27:05.800 --> 0:27:08.040
<v Speaker 1>It's like if a teacher were telling a kid you can't,

0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:09.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, no running, and the kids that you're not

0:27:09.960 --> 0:27:12.840
<v Speaker 1>my dad. This became really clear in twenty ten when

0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:16.040
<v Speaker 1>the FCC lost court cases where the agency had tried

0:27:16.680 --> 0:27:22.280
<v Speaker 1>to assert limited authority against Comcast and was found that

0:27:22.480 --> 0:27:25.160
<v Speaker 1>they couldn't do that. Now, the case was that Comcast

0:27:25.200 --> 0:27:28.960
<v Speaker 1>had been discovered to have throttled and perhaps even blocked,

0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:34.000
<v Speaker 1>some BitTorrent traffic on its networks, and that obviously goes

0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:37.800
<v Speaker 1>against the principles of net neutrality. Now, quick word about BitTorrent.

0:27:38.200 --> 0:27:41.920
<v Speaker 1>BitTorrent is a protocol for decentralized file sharing through peer

0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:44.800
<v Speaker 1>to peer connections. And to put it simply, imagine you've

0:27:44.800 --> 0:27:47.760
<v Speaker 1>got a network of ten computers. They're connected to each other.

0:27:48.000 --> 0:27:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Five of those computers have a specific file on them,

0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:53.399
<v Speaker 1>and your computer has just joined this network. You're the

0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:56.639
<v Speaker 1>tenth computer. You don't have that file. So what you

0:27:56.680 --> 0:27:58.520
<v Speaker 1>do is you download a torrent of that file, and

0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:01.439
<v Speaker 1>that torrent allows a file train between you and the

0:28:01.480 --> 0:28:04.240
<v Speaker 1>five computers on the system that currently have that file.

0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:07.240
<v Speaker 1>Whatever connection is best is the one that's going to

0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:09.360
<v Speaker 1>be active. If that connection for some reason slows down,

0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:12.280
<v Speaker 1>it can switch to another one. That way, you download

0:28:12.280 --> 0:28:15.800
<v Speaker 1>the file as quickly as you can through a distributed

0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:19.240
<v Speaker 1>decentralized peer to peer network is a quick way to

0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:23.240
<v Speaker 1>transfer large files, and as files propagate across the network,

0:28:23.240 --> 0:28:26.520
<v Speaker 1>it gets easier and faster for new devices to download

0:28:26.560 --> 0:28:30.040
<v Speaker 1>that file. Now, there is nothing inherently illegal about that.

0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 1>It is just a way to distribute files. You can

0:28:33.119 --> 0:28:36.000
<v Speaker 1>use BitTorrent to download all sorts of stuff, including free

0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:39.560
<v Speaker 1>software that has no restrictions on how it's shared, so

0:28:39.840 --> 0:28:43.760
<v Speaker 1>BitTorrent is just a means of conveyance. That being said,

0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:46.520
<v Speaker 1>one of the most popular uses of the technology was

0:28:46.600 --> 0:28:50.560
<v Speaker 1>the downloading of copyrighted material hiracy in other words, So

0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:53.280
<v Speaker 1>despite the fact that BitTorrent is really just a protocol

0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:58.720
<v Speaker 1>for filed transfers, in most circles, it became synonymous with piracy.

0:28:59.120 --> 0:29:01.600
<v Speaker 1>And so I imagine that that's why Comcasts started blocking

0:29:01.680 --> 0:29:04.680
<v Speaker 1>BitTorrent traffic on its network. And that means it would

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:07.440
<v Speaker 1>affect you even if you weren't a content pirate, you

0:29:07.480 --> 0:29:11.200
<v Speaker 1>were just using BitTorrent to get some legitimate file. There

0:29:11.240 --> 0:29:13.360
<v Speaker 1>was a whole lawsuit about that, and it's kind of

0:29:13.360 --> 0:29:16.400
<v Speaker 1>when the FCC stepped in and said, hey, Comcast, you

0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:18.880
<v Speaker 1>did a bad thing, and Comcast was like, yo, you

0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:21.480
<v Speaker 1>can't say that because we're Titled I, you have no

0:29:21.560 --> 0:29:24.920
<v Speaker 1>power over us. And the courts ultimately found that indeed,

0:29:24.960 --> 0:29:29.320
<v Speaker 1>the FCC had no power over Comcasts because years earlier,

0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:32.800
<v Speaker 1>the FCC decided that companies like Comcast are Title I

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:37.240
<v Speaker 1>entities and by definition, the FCC had no authority over them.

0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:41.560
<v Speaker 1>So things were starting to look like there needed to

0:29:41.600 --> 0:29:44.840
<v Speaker 1>be a big change. We'll talk about that more when

0:29:44.880 --> 0:29:56.160
<v Speaker 1>we come back from this break. All right, we're up

0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:59.160
<v Speaker 1>to twenty ten. That's when the FCC introduced some new

0:29:59.200 --> 0:30:02.560
<v Speaker 1>principles elected under a policy that the FCC called the

0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Open Internet Order, and these largely followed the earlier net

0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:10.600
<v Speaker 1>neutrality principles that were set out in two thousand and four,

0:30:10.800 --> 0:30:13.800
<v Speaker 1>saying that ISPs need to be clear and transparent about

0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:16.720
<v Speaker 1>their services so that customers can make informed decisions when

0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:20.880
<v Speaker 1>choosing an ISP or when evaluating their existing ISP, like

0:30:20.920 --> 0:30:24.160
<v Speaker 1>they couldn't just hide stuff away in other words, Also,

0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 1>the FCC reiterated that ISPs should not block any content

0:30:27.840 --> 0:30:31.240
<v Speaker 1>or devices from their networks. They also introduced similar rules

0:30:31.240 --> 0:30:35.400
<v Speaker 1>for mobile carriers that were now offering ISP services, and

0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:37.520
<v Speaker 1>there were some other stuff in the guidelines too, But

0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:41.640
<v Speaker 1>the rules didn't magically change ISPs from Title IE to

0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Title two, so you could say the guidelines didn't even

0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:48.480
<v Speaker 1>really mean anything because the FCC still lacked the ability

0:30:48.520 --> 0:30:53.800
<v Speaker 1>to enforce the rules. Yes, technically ISPs needed to be

0:30:53.880 --> 0:30:58.200
<v Speaker 1>more transparent, but when the FCC doesn't have the authority

0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:02.560
<v Speaker 1>to enforce those rules, then if they're not transparent, there's

0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:04.760
<v Speaker 1>not really anything you can do about it. So it's

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:07.040
<v Speaker 1>like a rule that doesn't have any bite to it. Now.

0:31:07.080 --> 0:31:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm skipping over tons of stuff here, but generally speaking,

0:31:10.880 --> 0:31:13.880
<v Speaker 1>what we saw over the following years was a kind

0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:17.360
<v Speaker 1>of impasse. The FCC tried to find various workarounds to

0:31:17.400 --> 0:31:22.120
<v Speaker 1>try and enforce rules against ISPs, using language that had

0:31:22.120 --> 0:31:24.680
<v Speaker 1>been drafted back in the nineteen thirties to try and

0:31:24.880 --> 0:31:27.719
<v Speaker 1>justify its actions, saying, hey, because of the way this

0:31:27.800 --> 0:31:30.000
<v Speaker 1>is worded in nineteen thirty that means that we can

0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:34.560
<v Speaker 1>actually enforce this rule against a Title I service. Courts

0:31:34.560 --> 0:31:37.520
<v Speaker 1>were not entirely sympathetic to this strategy. It felt a

0:31:37.520 --> 0:31:40.560
<v Speaker 1>lot like someone trying to stretch a definition in order

0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:44.000
<v Speaker 1>to give legitimacy for their actions. So it just seemed

0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:47.400
<v Speaker 1>like there wasn't really a way forward unless there were

0:31:47.400 --> 0:31:52.040
<v Speaker 1>a total change in how the government treats ISPs, namely

0:31:52.480 --> 0:31:56.560
<v Speaker 1>that ISPs collectively would need to go from the unregulated

0:31:56.600 --> 0:32:01.880
<v Speaker 1>title IE Information Services category and then be reclassified into

0:32:01.920 --> 0:32:07.160
<v Speaker 1>the Title to Telecommunications Services and Common Carrier category. As

0:32:07.200 --> 0:32:10.480
<v Speaker 1>you might imagine, such a move would be pretty difficult

0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:15.240
<v Speaker 1>to pull off. The telecommunications industry is enormous, It is powerful,

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:17.840
<v Speaker 1>it is willing to spend a whole lot of dollars

0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:22.080
<v Speaker 1>to lobby for favorable laws and regulations. If that weren't

0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:24.560
<v Speaker 1>the case, we would not be in a situation where

0:32:24.560 --> 0:32:28.000
<v Speaker 1>most Americans have very few choices when it comes to ISPs,

0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:31.880
<v Speaker 1>and we wouldn't have stories about how existing telecommunications companies

0:32:32.160 --> 0:32:35.240
<v Speaker 1>campaigned to keep news services from gaining access to things

0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:38.240
<v Speaker 1>like utility polls, which happened in the early days of

0:32:38.280 --> 0:32:42.560
<v Speaker 1>Google Fiber, or opposing things like municipal Wi Fi. So

0:32:43.280 --> 0:32:47.280
<v Speaker 1>around twenty fifteen, the FCC, with encouragement from then President

0:32:47.360 --> 0:32:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Barack Obama, set out to reclassify ISPs as titled to entities.

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:57.880
<v Speaker 1>The industry immediately began to sue FCC to challenge this move. Ultimately,

0:32:57.920 --> 0:32:59.800
<v Speaker 1>the goal was to say that the FCC didn't have

0:32:59.800 --> 0:33:03.880
<v Speaker 1>the authority to reclassify ISPs, that it would need an

0:33:03.960 --> 0:33:06.520
<v Speaker 1>Act from Congress, and that would at least buy the

0:33:06.520 --> 0:33:10.480
<v Speaker 1>telecommunications company some time to you know, grease the wheels

0:33:10.960 --> 0:33:14.280
<v Speaker 1>and make sure Congress remain lenient toward them. It essentially

0:33:14.280 --> 0:33:17.240
<v Speaker 1>would mean that net neutrality would be dead in the water,

0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:22.600
<v Speaker 1>because unless you have an overwhelming majority in both Houses

0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:27.560
<v Speaker 1>of Congress and a sympathetic president, getting any legislation to

0:33:27.640 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 1>pass that would enforce net neutrality would be incredibly difficult.

0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:37.560
<v Speaker 1>But the FCC was going ahead with this plan, and

0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:42.959
<v Speaker 1>all of this as it was going on, had politics

0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:47.080
<v Speaker 1>shifting once again, because around this time that's when Donald Trump,

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:51.240
<v Speaker 1>who made it very clear he was staunchly against reclassifying

0:33:51.280 --> 0:33:56.360
<v Speaker 1>ISPs as Title two, became President. Trump, while he was campaigning,

0:33:56.840 --> 0:33:59.720
<v Speaker 1>said that the move to classify ISPs as Title two

0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:03.600
<v Speaker 1>would somehow have a negative impact on free speech, particularly

0:34:03.680 --> 0:34:07.560
<v Speaker 1>free speech from conservative voices. I don't know what his

0:34:07.720 --> 0:34:11.359
<v Speaker 1>logic was, if you can call it that, on that argument, like,

0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how being classified as Title I would

0:34:14.160 --> 0:34:22.080
<v Speaker 1>suddenly make ISPs incapable of carrying conservative viewpoints. I don't

0:34:22.480 --> 0:34:25.399
<v Speaker 1>there's a disconnect there. I just don't understand it as

0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:28.919
<v Speaker 1>a justification for saying they shouldn't be Title two. There

0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:33.239
<v Speaker 1>are other arguments that I've heard against classifying ISPs as

0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Title two that at least have some grounding to them.

0:34:37.600 --> 0:34:39.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what the grounding is for that argument.

0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:43.680
<v Speaker 1>The new FCC under Trump's administration got to work rolling

0:34:43.719 --> 0:34:47.759
<v Speaker 1>back the changes of the previous FCC, So that's one

0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:50.080
<v Speaker 1>of the big challenges of the US as well, right,

0:34:50.120 --> 0:34:54.200
<v Speaker 1>because you have these agencies, these agencies like the FCC

0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:59.040
<v Speaker 1>where the role of the FCC it comes under appointment.

0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:03.880
<v Speaker 1>When position opens up, the current president can appoint someone

0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:06.000
<v Speaker 1>to that position. Often they have to get approval like

0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:11.760
<v Speaker 1>depending on the agency. But that means that as administrations change,

0:35:11.920 --> 0:35:15.840
<v Speaker 1>the nature of these agencies change, so the politics change,

0:35:15.920 --> 0:35:19.640
<v Speaker 1>the priorities change. In the case of Trump taking over

0:35:20.040 --> 0:35:24.279
<v Speaker 1>in the United States, it meant that the new FCC

0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:30.360
<v Speaker 1>had a diametrically opposed opinion about net neutrality, and the

0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:34.520
<v Speaker 1>whole reclassification of ISPs to Title two hit reverse. The

0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:38.600
<v Speaker 1>new FCC chair a Jitpi, pushed for ISPs to go

0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:41.160
<v Speaker 1>back to being Title one and to strip away many

0:35:41.160 --> 0:35:43.880
<v Speaker 1>of the rules that applied to net neutrality in the process.

0:35:44.360 --> 0:35:47.680
<v Speaker 1>ISPs would still technically need to follow transparency rules, at

0:35:47.760 --> 0:35:51.040
<v Speaker 1>least they're supposed to. But then again, when you don't

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:53.719
<v Speaker 1>have an ability to enforce a rule, then the rule

0:35:53.800 --> 0:35:57.680
<v Speaker 1>is kind of just there for show. Right. If an

0:35:57.680 --> 0:36:00.560
<v Speaker 1>ISP wanted to, they could be transparent and say I'm

0:36:00.560 --> 0:36:04.160
<v Speaker 1>going to throttle this traffic from this other provider. That

0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:07.480
<v Speaker 1>would also be fine because again they just would be

0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:09.480
<v Speaker 1>disclosing what they were going to do, but there were

0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:12.239
<v Speaker 1>no rules to prevent them from doing it, so they

0:36:12.239 --> 0:36:14.279
<v Speaker 1>could just say, Hey, I'm gonna do this thing that

0:36:14.360 --> 0:36:16.279
<v Speaker 1>you don't like, and there's nothing you can do about it,

0:36:16.320 --> 0:36:18.640
<v Speaker 1>but I'm at least telling you about it, because I'm

0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:21.879
<v Speaker 1>supposed to like you could do that. But yeah, why

0:36:21.920 --> 0:36:26.480
<v Speaker 1>even bother disclosing if there are no teeth to the rules. Anyway,

0:36:26.600 --> 0:36:29.560
<v Speaker 1>during the Trump administration, the FCC's moved to put ISPs

0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:33.480
<v Speaker 1>into Title iiO classification when it totally in reverse. And

0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.080
<v Speaker 1>as we know, Trump then got voted out of office.

0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:39.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he disputes that, but the courts sure haven't.

0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:43.880
<v Speaker 1>And then with Joe Biden's administration, the tides have changed

0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:47.319
<v Speaker 1>yet again. A couple of years ago, Biden signed an

0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:50.880
<v Speaker 1>executive order that told the FCC to go back to

0:36:50.960 --> 0:36:55.000
<v Speaker 1>getting net neutrality rules restored. Congress has also tried a

0:36:55.040 --> 0:36:57.000
<v Speaker 1>couple of times to get a law going that would

0:36:57.000 --> 0:36:59.880
<v Speaker 1>create a stronger framework for net neutrality and to remove

0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:03.040
<v Speaker 1>some of the ambiguity of the FCC's role and the

0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:06.120
<v Speaker 1>extent of its authority. So some of these would give

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:11.279
<v Speaker 1>FCC the express authority to do things like reclassify ISPs.

0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:14.880
<v Speaker 1>That has been one of those matters that cable companies

0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:18.080
<v Speaker 1>have argued that the FCC doesn't have the authority to

0:37:18.120 --> 0:37:21.400
<v Speaker 1>make that determination. Even though they made the initial determination

0:37:21.920 --> 0:37:24.600
<v Speaker 1>of who goes into what category, they're saying the FCC

0:37:24.640 --> 0:37:28.360
<v Speaker 1>doesn't have the authority to change that. So there have

0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:31.680
<v Speaker 1>been a couple of attempts from Congress to get laws

0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:35.840
<v Speaker 1>passed that would clear this up and make it less ambiguous,

0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:39.640
<v Speaker 1>but they haven't really gone anywhere. They've never passed both

0:37:39.680 --> 0:37:42.000
<v Speaker 1>the House and the Senate and then been signed into law.

0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:44.399
<v Speaker 1>There's always been opposition in one House or the other,

0:37:44.880 --> 0:37:50.960
<v Speaker 1>or just a lack of gumption to move the legislation forward,

0:37:51.040 --> 0:37:54.880
<v Speaker 1>so it hasn't gone anywhere. Typically, support for net neutrality

0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:59.719
<v Speaker 1>falls along party lines. Democrats aren't generally favorable toward it,

0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:04.080
<v Speaker 1>Republicans are generally against it, or rather Republicans are generally

0:38:04.160 --> 0:38:08.760
<v Speaker 1>against government regulation. Now, for being fair, you can definitely

0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:11.080
<v Speaker 1>see examples throughout the history of the United States where

0:38:11.080 --> 0:38:15.520
<v Speaker 1>regulation did have negative consequences, but you can also see

0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:18.759
<v Speaker 1>plenty of examples where a lack of regulation led to

0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:21.640
<v Speaker 1>huge problems. So I think it's safe to say that

0:38:21.680 --> 0:38:24.759
<v Speaker 1>it's complicated, and we humans are good at mess and

0:38:24.840 --> 0:38:28.239
<v Speaker 1>stuff up. So I don't think it's as easy to

0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:32.720
<v Speaker 1>say that regulation is good or regulation is bad, because

0:38:32.760 --> 0:38:35.919
<v Speaker 1>it has to be designed and enforced properly, and that's

0:38:35.960 --> 0:38:39.799
<v Speaker 1>a big that's a big if. Personally, I am in

0:38:39.880 --> 0:38:42.960
<v Speaker 1>favor of following rules that create a fair playing field

0:38:42.960 --> 0:38:46.960
<v Speaker 1>across all ISPs and content providers. I do not think

0:38:46.960 --> 0:38:49.720
<v Speaker 1>it's fair if an ISP decides it will only carry

0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:53.200
<v Speaker 1>a content provider's content if they pay extra. For example,

0:38:53.719 --> 0:38:56.960
<v Speaker 1>that this tiered internet approach I think is a bad

0:38:57.000 --> 0:39:00.120
<v Speaker 1>thing where they say, yeah, we'll carry your streams, but

0:39:00.160 --> 0:39:02.000
<v Speaker 1>you have to pay us extra if you want it

0:39:02.080 --> 0:39:04.480
<v Speaker 1>to go fast. I don't think that's a good idea.

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:06.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it might not be a huge impediment to

0:39:06.800 --> 0:39:10.200
<v Speaker 1>a big company that's got a lot of resources, but

0:39:10.320 --> 0:39:13.640
<v Speaker 1>to smaller ones it could absolutely prevent them from being

0:39:13.680 --> 0:39:17.640
<v Speaker 1>able to be discovered by the customers of that particular ISP,

0:39:17.920 --> 0:39:21.480
<v Speaker 1>and it could be a death sentence. Like imagine if

0:39:21.560 --> 0:39:24.160
<v Speaker 1>a restaurant opened on a road and the roads were

0:39:24.160 --> 0:39:28.680
<v Speaker 1>all suddenly converted to private ownership, and the owner of

0:39:28.719 --> 0:39:32.440
<v Speaker 1>that road said that the restaurant has to cover the

0:39:32.480 --> 0:39:35.680
<v Speaker 1>costs of people going to it, Like it has to

0:39:35.719 --> 0:39:38.719
<v Speaker 1>pay for people to be able to drive down the

0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:42.480
<v Speaker 1>road and park at that restaurant. That would probably be

0:39:42.560 --> 0:39:46.080
<v Speaker 1>the death knell of that restaurant. So that's kind of

0:39:46.120 --> 0:39:53.520
<v Speaker 1>the similar concern about the tiered approach. And also, like

0:39:53.560 --> 0:39:56.200
<v Speaker 1>I said before, another big concern is that a lot

0:39:56.200 --> 0:40:01.400
<v Speaker 1>of ISPs are also enormous content providers themselves, So what

0:40:01.560 --> 0:40:06.160
<v Speaker 1>stops them from giving themselves preferential treatment while trying to

0:40:06.360 --> 0:40:10.640
<v Speaker 1>restrict everybody else. So once again, let's talk about Comcast.

0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:16.600
<v Speaker 1>It is a huge telecommunications company, it's an enormous media company.

0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:20.480
<v Speaker 1>In twenty eleven it became the parent company to NBC Universal.

0:40:20.920 --> 0:40:23.440
<v Speaker 1>So if Comcast decided to give its own streaming service,

0:40:23.560 --> 0:40:27.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, like Peacock a boost and then throttle traffic

0:40:27.280 --> 0:40:30.919
<v Speaker 1>from Max for example, that's the streaming service from Warner

0:40:30.920 --> 0:40:35.080
<v Speaker 1>Brothers Discovery previously known as HBO Max, well, that seems

0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:38.840
<v Speaker 1>like a pretty clear anti competitive move right, And generally speaking,

0:40:38.920 --> 0:40:42.880
<v Speaker 1>the US has policy that's against companies behaving in anti

0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:46.960
<v Speaker 1>competitive ways. At least that's the ideal. Whether the government

0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:51.080
<v Speaker 1>actively pursues that ideal tends to depend upon whom's in

0:40:51.200 --> 0:40:54.800
<v Speaker 1>charge and their opinions toward regulation. Right now, we're seeing

0:40:54.800 --> 0:40:59.080
<v Speaker 1>a much more active FCC as well as an SEC.

0:40:59.280 --> 0:41:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Like all the initial agencies out there that are related

0:41:04.400 --> 0:41:06.960
<v Speaker 1>to things like fairness in the market, a lot of

0:41:06.960 --> 0:41:09.600
<v Speaker 1>them are taking a much more firm stance against anti

0:41:09.680 --> 0:41:14.640
<v Speaker 1>competitive behavior Right now, that's the current attitude in US government,

0:41:14.680 --> 0:41:16.240
<v Speaker 1>but that doesn't mean it's going to be the same.

0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:20.200
<v Speaker 1>In another couple of years, it may completely change. That's

0:41:20.239 --> 0:41:23.319
<v Speaker 1>one of the reasons why this is so complicated is

0:41:23.360 --> 0:41:27.880
<v Speaker 1>because there's not a steady through line of support. But

0:41:27.920 --> 0:41:30.800
<v Speaker 1>that's kind of the update on net neutrality. The matter

0:41:31.040 --> 0:41:34.560
<v Speaker 1>is extremely complicated. I'm not going to pretend that I

0:41:34.560 --> 0:41:37.959
<v Speaker 1>have a handle on all the nuanced components. Like I said,

0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:42.040
<v Speaker 1>I do think there's some logical arguments that criticize net neutrality,

0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:45.360
<v Speaker 1>or at least how government regulation can create new problems

0:41:45.400 --> 0:41:48.440
<v Speaker 1>while trying to address existing ones. I just feel like

0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:51.359
<v Speaker 1>end consumers in the US tend to be the real

0:41:51.520 --> 0:41:56.399
<v Speaker 1>victims in this war. And now we should probably talk

0:41:56.440 --> 0:41:58.800
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more about the scandal that actually prompted

0:41:58.800 --> 0:42:01.520
<v Speaker 1>this whole episode in the first so, as I mentioned earlier,

0:42:01.920 --> 0:42:04.279
<v Speaker 1>the attorney General for the State of New York has

0:42:04.320 --> 0:42:07.239
<v Speaker 1>been going after several companies that sought to skew the

0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:12.320
<v Speaker 1>public comments around net neutrality back during adjut Pie's crusade

0:42:12.360 --> 0:42:16.120
<v Speaker 1>to reverse the reclassification of ISPs as Title II services.

0:42:16.600 --> 0:42:20.040
<v Speaker 1>So when the FCC makes these kinds of determinations, when

0:42:20.040 --> 0:42:23.000
<v Speaker 1>they're about to vote on something, they will often open

0:42:23.080 --> 0:42:26.280
<v Speaker 1>matters up for public comment. This gives the general public

0:42:26.320 --> 0:42:29.840
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to share their thoughts about issues in communication

0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:34.000
<v Speaker 1>systems that ultimately will affect them. Now. Typically, the FCC

0:42:34.080 --> 0:42:36.799
<v Speaker 1>will create a website for an issue, and then it

0:42:36.800 --> 0:42:39.319
<v Speaker 1>will urge people to go to that website and to

0:42:39.480 --> 0:42:42.799
<v Speaker 1>leave their thoughts there. These sites are open for a

0:42:42.800 --> 0:42:44.759
<v Speaker 1>set amount of time, and at the end of that time,

0:42:44.800 --> 0:42:47.200
<v Speaker 1>the comments are closed off and the FCC reviews them

0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:50.319
<v Speaker 1>before they make their vote. They have no obligation to

0:42:50.480 --> 0:42:53.920
<v Speaker 1>obey public opinion, but the idea is that the FCC

0:42:53.960 --> 0:42:57.920
<v Speaker 1>can take that public opinion into consideration before they vote

0:42:57.920 --> 0:43:00.440
<v Speaker 1>on a matter. If they say, like, Wow, the the

0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:04.560
<v Speaker 1>US public is overwhelmingly against this, that might make them

0:43:04.560 --> 0:43:07.799
<v Speaker 1>think twice into voting it into action. Well, when it

0:43:07.840 --> 0:43:11.040
<v Speaker 1>came time to open up public comments on repealing the

0:43:11.080 --> 0:43:15.160
<v Speaker 1>title to reclassification of ISPs. It appears that the broad

0:43:15.200 --> 0:43:19.959
<v Speaker 1>band industry turned to some generating firms to help get

0:43:20.000 --> 0:43:24.760
<v Speaker 1>public support for nixing net neutrality, for reversing that decision

0:43:25.239 --> 0:43:30.200
<v Speaker 1>or reversing the reclassification. Allegedly, the broadband companies were saying, hey,

0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:33.319
<v Speaker 1>can you like generate some messaging that is going to

0:43:33.360 --> 0:43:36.160
<v Speaker 1>convince yahoos on the Internet that they don't really want

0:43:36.200 --> 0:43:39.279
<v Speaker 1>net neutrality, And so they paid these companies to do that,

0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:42.120
<v Speaker 1>and the companies allegedly said, yes, we can do that.

0:43:42.280 --> 0:43:45.960
<v Speaker 1>But instead what they allegedly did, I mean, the New

0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:49.520
<v Speaker 1>York Attorney General Office said they absolutely did it was

0:43:49.560 --> 0:43:52.960
<v Speaker 1>they impersonated around one and a half million people and

0:43:53.000 --> 0:43:56.080
<v Speaker 1>they went to the FCC website and posted support for

0:43:56.200 --> 0:44:00.280
<v Speaker 1>appealing net neutrality rules. By the way, this was actually

0:44:00.280 --> 0:44:02.359
<v Speaker 1>suspected while it was going on. There were folks who

0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:04.880
<v Speaker 1>were keeping an eye on those public comments, and there

0:44:04.880 --> 0:44:08.040
<v Speaker 1>were lots and lots of articles back in twenty seventeen

0:44:08.840 --> 0:44:11.759
<v Speaker 1>that many of the comments that were being left supporting

0:44:11.800 --> 0:44:15.400
<v Speaker 1>this move to strip net neutrality rules were actually bogus,

0:44:15.520 --> 0:44:21.520
<v Speaker 1>that these were fake comments that were supporting an unpopular policy.

0:44:21.880 --> 0:44:25.320
<v Speaker 1>The Attorney General's office had secured agreements with three different

0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:27.640
<v Speaker 1>companies to hand over more than half a million dollars

0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:31.120
<v Speaker 1>in fines for participating in this scheme. Now, if you

0:44:31.160 --> 0:44:34.600
<v Speaker 1>ask me, those three companies got off lightly because I'm

0:44:34.640 --> 0:44:36.480
<v Speaker 1>sure you would be upset to find out that some

0:44:36.680 --> 0:44:41.600
<v Speaker 1>company somewhere had posted something online while claiming to be you,

0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:47.480
<v Speaker 1>particularly if they were saying something that you adamantly disagree with,

0:44:48.160 --> 0:44:50.799
<v Speaker 1>and you might wonder how bad could it all be?

0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:54.279
<v Speaker 1>Like one and a half million impersonated people, That is

0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:56.799
<v Speaker 1>a lot, there's no denying that. But how bad is

0:44:56.840 --> 0:45:00.399
<v Speaker 1>that in the overall scheme? Of the comments that left

0:45:00.440 --> 0:45:03.960
<v Speaker 1>on the FCC well, according to an investigation, there were

0:45:04.000 --> 0:45:08.120
<v Speaker 1>around twenty two million comments left on the FCC request

0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:11.640
<v Speaker 1>for public comment, and an investigation in twenty twenty one

0:45:11.920 --> 0:45:16.840
<v Speaker 1>uncovered that out of those twenty two million comments, eighteen

0:45:17.080 --> 0:45:22.719
<v Speaker 1>million of them were fake. So the vast majority of

0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:27.880
<v Speaker 1>comments left were fake ones trying to skew the results

0:45:27.920 --> 0:45:30.399
<v Speaker 1>and not trying they did skew. I mean, that's that's

0:45:30.480 --> 0:45:34.400
<v Speaker 1>the vast majority of the comments left were left in

0:45:34.520 --> 0:45:38.680
<v Speaker 1>order to create this message that the public wanted the

0:45:38.719 --> 0:45:43.600
<v Speaker 1>title to reclassification repealed. So yeah, it is a rigged game.

0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:45.959
<v Speaker 1>I mean, that is the definition of a rigged game.

0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:48.720
<v Speaker 1>It is rigged, and the penalties for rigging the game

0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:53.040
<v Speaker 1>are minuscule. Half a million dollars spread across three companies

0:45:53.120 --> 0:45:57.719
<v Speaker 1>is nothing. Plus even with that, it doesn't reverse the

0:45:57.719 --> 0:46:01.440
<v Speaker 1>decisions that were made, even though those decisions at least

0:46:01.480 --> 0:46:06.160
<v Speaker 1>partly relied on fake public opinion to justify the decision,

0:46:06.520 --> 0:46:10.880
<v Speaker 1>So the results of that fakery are still in play.

0:46:10.960 --> 0:46:13.719
<v Speaker 1>Like that doesn't change at all. You're like, shame on

0:46:13.800 --> 0:46:16.960
<v Speaker 1>you for fooling everyone. But the decisions that were made

0:46:17.040 --> 0:46:23.080
<v Speaker 1>based upon those false comments those stand so also interesting.

0:46:23.120 --> 0:46:25.200
<v Speaker 1>By the way, at the time, back in twenty seventeen,

0:46:25.239 --> 0:46:29.040
<v Speaker 1>when all this was happening, ajit Pie resisted calls to

0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:32.720
<v Speaker 1>investigate the comments. But then, I mean, if fake comments

0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:34.680
<v Speaker 1>are in support of your position, I guess you don't

0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:37.200
<v Speaker 1>have much of an incentive to investigate if those comments

0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:41.360
<v Speaker 1>are real or not because they're supporting your side. So yeah,

0:46:41.440 --> 0:46:45.520
<v Speaker 1>it is an ugly business. Again, Personally, I'm in favor

0:46:45.560 --> 0:46:48.360
<v Speaker 1>of net neutrality. I am interested in some of the

0:46:48.480 --> 0:46:52.239
<v Speaker 1>arguments against it, and again, I think a lot of

0:46:52.280 --> 0:46:55.840
<v Speaker 1>that comes back to how government regulation has been poorly

0:46:55.920 --> 0:46:59.160
<v Speaker 1>designed and implemented in the past often can lead to

0:46:59.200 --> 0:47:01.680
<v Speaker 1>corruption as well. Well, I mean, it's it just comes

0:47:01.719 --> 0:47:04.840
<v Speaker 1>down to the fact that some people will see a

0:47:04.920 --> 0:47:07.680
<v Speaker 1>system and figure out how they can personally profit off

0:47:07.680 --> 0:47:10.080
<v Speaker 1>of it, even if it means everyone else suffers in

0:47:10.120 --> 0:47:15.200
<v Speaker 1>the process. So yeah, fun times. I don't I'm not

0:47:15.280 --> 0:47:17.520
<v Speaker 1>ever going to say net neutrality is totally dead, nor

0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:19.520
<v Speaker 1>am I ever going to say it is protected forever

0:47:19.560 --> 0:47:21.879
<v Speaker 1>and ever, because as we have seen over the last

0:47:21.880 --> 0:47:27.319
<v Speaker 1>two decades, things can change quickly and dramatically, so I

0:47:27.360 --> 0:47:30.920
<v Speaker 1>suspect it will really depend upon whomever's in charge and

0:47:30.960 --> 0:47:34.200
<v Speaker 1>what the prevailing attitude towards the concept is at the time.

0:47:34.719 --> 0:47:37.799
<v Speaker 1>So I'm sure in ten years, if I'm still doing

0:47:37.840 --> 0:47:40.600
<v Speaker 1>this show, I will revisit this and have yet another

0:47:40.680 --> 0:47:44.480
<v Speaker 1>look back on net neutrality. That's it. I hope you're

0:47:44.520 --> 0:47:47.959
<v Speaker 1>all well and I'll talk to you again really soon.

0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:58.920
<v Speaker 1>Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:02.640
<v Speaker 1>visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

0:48:02.680 --> 0:48:04.080
<v Speaker 1>listen to your favorite shows.