1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, 2 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. 3 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: I'm an executive producer with iHeartRadio and how the tech 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: are here? So several years ago, during the Trump administration 5 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: here in the United States, the Federal Communications Commission, or FCC, 6 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: held a vote to repeal an earlier set of rules 7 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 1: called the Open Internet Order. The board of the FCC, 8 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: made up of five appointees, voted three to two to 9 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: repeal those rules, despite the fact that there were concerns 10 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: there was hanky panky going on when the FCC sought 11 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: out public opinion on the matter. Currently, the Attorney General 12 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: for the state of New York is composing fines on 13 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: several companies found to have been guilty of essentially stuffing 14 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: the ballot boxes. As it were, These companies apparently impersonated 15 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: more than a million US citizens posting fake comments to 16 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: the FCC that were in favor of the repeal of 17 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: these rules. Considering that the FCC justified its vote on 18 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: the matter at least partly and it being a reflection 19 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: of the will of the people, this is bad and hey, 20 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: if you have to rig a system in order to win. 21 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: Then by definition, you're really a loser. So I thought 22 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: maybe we'd look back on what net neutrality is. What 23 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: is that concept? Why is there a debate about net neutrality? 24 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: Because there is, And while I am firmly in the 25 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: net neutrality camp, I acknowledge there are points being made 26 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 1: by people who are against net neutrality that you can't 27 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: just wave off. There are some valid points on the 28 00:01:56,400 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: other side. But what do the difference have to say 29 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: about net neutrality? Why is it tricky for the FCC 30 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:08,960 Speaker 1: to enforce net neutrality? And how does the presence or 31 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: absence of net neutrality affect people like you and me? Now, 32 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: when I say you and me, I mainly mean people 33 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: here in the United States for this specific case, but 34 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: there are other places where this is an issue too. 35 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there are places in the world where 36 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: the government takes a much more active role in what 37 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: people can or cannot access on the internet. Here in 38 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: the US, Ideally you're supposed to be able to access 39 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: pretty much anything, but that's not necessarily how it turns out. 40 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: So first, let's define net neutrality. When you boil it down, 41 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: net neutrality is all about treating the ones and zeros 42 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: that are zipping across the Internet as if they're all 43 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: the same, which, by the way, some of the founders 44 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: of the or you know, people who created the protocols 45 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 1: of the Internet, say was never their intent. Vince Surf 46 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: and Bob conn have both said that they never intended 47 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: for all packets to necessarily be treated the same when 48 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,399 Speaker 1: they were building out TCPIP protocols, which is interesting. Net 49 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: neutrality means that the various entities that own the infrastructure 50 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: or the pipes if you are a series of tubes, 51 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: if you like. If we're going to go way back 52 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: into the analogies of the Internet anyway, net neutrality says 53 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: that the companies that own that infrastructure should allow traffic 54 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: to flow through those pipes no matter where that traffic 55 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: originated from. So there should be no preferential treatment. There 56 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: should be no slowing of someone else's zeros and ones, 57 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: there should be no blocking a competitor from accessing your infrastructure. 58 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: It's meant to keep the Internet a machine that lets 59 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: information go to wherever it needs to go to without 60 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: being hindered along the way. This definition has actually expanded 61 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: a little bit over the years. Back when folks were 62 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 1: first starting to talk about net neutrality. Really, the only 63 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: way you could access the Internet was by computer, the 64 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: only meaningful way that most people could access was by computer. However, 65 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: since then, we've had a revolution of devices that can 66 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: tap into the network of networks that include smartphones and 67 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: tablets and Internet of Things devices, even some vehicles or 68 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: accessing information on the Internet. So another element of the 69 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: concept of net neutrality tends to be that you should 70 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: be able to access information on the Internet no matter 71 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: what device you are using to do so. So, if 72 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: a company happens to own some of the infrastructure of 73 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: the Internet, and also happens to be involved in the 74 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: creation of hardware, it would be against the principles of 75 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: net neutrality for that company to allow its own devices 76 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: access to its pipes. But did I entry to anyone else. 77 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: So in other words, let's say that you have an 78 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: ISP and the ISP is offering to lease you a 79 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: modemen router. So as part of your service, you can 80 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: essentially rent a mode and a router from this company, 81 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 1: which means that you are adding to your monthly bill. However, 82 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: you could just go out and buy a modem and 83 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 1: a router and then have that connected to your service, 84 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: which might require some extra steps to get it activated 85 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: because it's not part of the proprietary system, but it 86 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: should be fine. The ISP should not block you from 87 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: using some other motiven router just because it doesn't come 88 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: from them, and that would in turn mean you would 89 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: spend less on your monthly ISP bill because you're not 90 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: renting from them. One then neutrality says is that such 91 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: an ISP couldn't come out and say no, no, no, no, 92 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,160 Speaker 1: you have to use our stuff or you can't use 93 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:48,160 Speaker 1: anything else. These ideas are not just abstract concepts. Many 94 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: companies involved in at least some part of the Internet 95 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: infrastructure are also content providers. In other words, they don't 96 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,720 Speaker 1: just own the pipes that stuff is moving through, they 97 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: create some of the stuff that's going through those pipes. 98 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: So one of the big examples centering around net neutrality 99 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,719 Speaker 1: for years was that a company like Comcast, the largest 100 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: telecommunications company in the world, which has its own online 101 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: content products that's putting it lightly because they own NBC Universal, 102 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,559 Speaker 1: they might purposefully slow down or block traffic coming from 103 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: some other content service like Netflix, And so that would 104 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: mean if you're a Comcast customer, and you're trying to 105 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: connect to Netflix, you might end up hitting some some 106 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: traffic slowdown, like things might take a while to buffer 107 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: before you can watch them. But curiously, if you were 108 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: to switch to Comcasts owned and operated streaming services, there's 109 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: no such slowdown. It just loads super fast and you 110 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: can watch without problems. So potentially that could drive customers 111 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: to subscribe to Comcast's own services and to not subscribe 112 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: to competitors, which seems to be a little bit anti competitive, right, 113 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: I mean, why make a better product if you can 114 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: just block your customers from getting to a competitor, Right, 115 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: You don't need to make anything great if you can 116 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: just prevent anyone from having a choice. If you're the 117 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: only game in town, you don't have to make your 118 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: game better. And you might think, hey, that does sound 119 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 1: kind of anti competitive, and you're absolutely right it is. 120 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: And keep in mind that here in the United States, 121 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: many people have very few options when it comes to ISPs. So, 122 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: for example, I live in an area. I am in 123 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: the city of Atlanta, not just like in metro Atlanta. 124 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: I'm in the city and I have precisely one option 125 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to a provider that can give me 126 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: speeds higher than one hundred and fifty megabits per second. 127 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: So one option is not an option, right, That's it. 128 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 1: That's all I've got. The other quote unquote options are 129 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: for significantly slower speeds. So I could go with a competitor, 130 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: but one and I would not be paying significantly less, 131 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: and two, I would be getting a service that is 132 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: significantly slower. So if I go to a site by 133 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: the way that checks for providers based on my ZIP code, 134 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: I get tons of options for insanely fast connectivity, like 135 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: way faster than what I actually have. But if I 136 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: actually go through the steps to get to a point 137 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: where I would order such a service, by the time 138 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: you get to the last step, you get a message 139 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: that essentially says we're sorry that service isn't available at 140 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: your location or something like that, which just shows that 141 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: I am in that position where that a lot of 142 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: people are in in the United States where you do 143 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: not have options when it comes to your choice or provider, 144 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: so there is no competition in your particular area and 145 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: you're left with whatever is there. And that means that 146 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: you know, if I don't have a choice in provider, 147 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: if I want a good broadband speed, and if that 148 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: provider were to decide to discriminate against other competes editors, 149 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: I just wouldn't be able to get that content, or 150 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,320 Speaker 1: at least it would be a real hassle for me 151 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: to get that content. I wouldn't have an option to 152 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: view that in any other way. Even if I wanted 153 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: to subscribe and I wanted to be a paying customer, 154 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to see, say, the stuff on 155 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: Netflix if Comcast decided, no, we're going to block Netflix's content. 156 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: So net neutrality is meant to make sure that doesn't happen, 157 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: where you don't have a fractured internet where depending upon 158 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: your ISP you can access certain columns of content but 159 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: not others. And if you're on a different ISPs, it's 160 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: a totally different shakedown of what you can and can't access. 161 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: It becomes a less useful tool, right, the Internet becomes 162 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: broken at that point. If you and another person are 163 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: on two different services, you have two totally different experiences 164 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 1: of what the Internet is because of those restrictions. That's 165 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,719 Speaker 1: what net neutrality is supposed to prevent. Now let's get 166 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 1: into the complicated legal quagm around net neutrality. So here 167 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: in the US, we've got ourselves a handy dandy law 168 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: called the Communications Act of nineteen thirty four. And yes, 169 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: in order to understand net neutrality in its path through 170 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: the US, we have to start nearly a century ago. 171 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: In fact, technically we could go back even further and 172 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: go back beyond a century to talk about stuff like railroads, 173 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: which I guess you could say laid the track for 174 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: some of the concepts around net neutrality. But I'm going 175 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: to be kind, I'm not going to go back quite 176 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,199 Speaker 1: that far. So the Communications Act of nineteen thirty four 177 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: set a whole bunch of ground rules to try and 178 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: untangle the chaotic mess that was threatening to make communication 179 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: an unfair and uneven landscape. The Act sets out rules 180 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: for assigning frequencies for broadcasts and coming up with rules 181 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: for stuff like commercials and setting various standards. And it 182 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: also established the Federal Communications Commission or f c C, which, 183 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: by the way, in its rule states that at least 184 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: one member must be of a different party, So you 185 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 1: can't have an FCC that's made up entirely of Democrats 186 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: or Republicans or whatever. It has to have a balance, 187 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: and by balance I mean at least one member has 188 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: to be the opposing party. That Act largely classified communications 189 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: companies as common carriers, that is, they fall under a 190 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: regulatory body, in this case, the FCC that enforces rules 191 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: to ensure that these carriers treat everyone fairly. A common 192 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 1: carrier can't deny service on the grounds of discrimination. For example, 193 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: it can't be that two people show up and one 194 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: person is allowed to use the service and the other 195 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: one isn't, and there's no legal reason for the discrimination. 196 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: This concept goes all the way back to the railroads. 197 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: So for communications networks, it helped create an environment in 198 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: which telephone companies couldn't deny access to their own lines 199 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: to other companies. And that's good because you didn't want 200 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: a situation where the only folks you could talk to 201 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 1: on the phone would be fellow customers of the same 202 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: phone company you belong to. The Communications Act of nineteen 203 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: thirty four set out these common carriage rules in the 204 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: section called Title iiO. Now, there were seven sections or 205 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: titles in the nineteen thirty four Act, and Title two 206 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: are the ones that are subject to regulation under the 207 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: authority of FCC. However, a bunch of other communications services 208 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: were deemed different enough from these to fall under Title I, 209 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 1: which did not allow the FCC the authority to regulate them. 210 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 1: So certain services were considered immune to this like they 211 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: were exceptions to regulation. And largely the thought was that 212 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: regulation could potentially inhibit growth and innovation, and therefore these 213 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 1: younger forms of communication should not be stifled by regulation. 214 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: And then Title II was a different story. Now, over 215 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,320 Speaker 1: the years, some of the measures of the nineteen thirty 216 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:09,240 Speaker 1: four Act had unintended consequences. For example, it helped the 217 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: rise of monopolies, namely AT and T, which essentially had 218 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: a total monopoly on the phone industry in the United 219 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,960 Speaker 1: States until it was forced to break up into several 220 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: other companies in the nineteen eighties. That story is its own, 221 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: super complicated mess, and it goes beyond what we'll talk 222 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,680 Speaker 1: about here. Things got more complicated with the invention of 223 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: cable television and other innovations, and you had weird rules 224 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,200 Speaker 1: that would allow phone companies to do one thing and 225 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: cable companies to do something else. And we were rushing 226 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: toward an era where everybody was essentially allowing digital information 227 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: to pass over their networks, and yet there were different 228 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: rules in place as to which companies could do what. 229 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: So things were getting messy, so the government would try 230 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: to fix it, and it got messier. I'll explain more 231 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: after we come back from this quick break, Okay. So 232 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: cable companies first emerged in the late forties and really 233 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: grew in like the seventies and eighties, and there were 234 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: some amendments to the Communications Act that changed things a 235 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: little bit, but what was really needed was a new 236 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,280 Speaker 1: approach to telecommunications and that's when we got the Telecommunications 237 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: Act of nineteen ninety six. So this was the first 238 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: major rewrite of communication law in more than sixty years. 239 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: This Act was meant to ease off on some regulations 240 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: in an effort to encourage more competition in the industry. 241 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: And it gets way more complicated from there. And a 242 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: full disclosure, I am not a lawyer. Waiting through the 243 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: mountains of documents to get a firm handle on these 244 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: various designations would take me ages. So I'm actually relying 245 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: heavily on the work of other people here, and trust me, 246 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: like I was following up and trying to go down 247 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: to other rabbit holes and find, you know, things that 248 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: I could specifically cite. And it got hard. A lot 249 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: of sources out there make some pretty general claims that 250 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: I think mostly are correct, but they get details wrong. 251 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: And that's infuriating because I don't have a month to 252 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: just read legal documents to figure out what's the best 253 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: way to communicate this is. So I'm going to be 254 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: painting in some pretty broad strokes. But in nineteen ninety six, 255 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,680 Speaker 1: the Internet was still a pretty young entity, at least 256 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 1: to the general public. I mean, most of the general 257 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: public had no idea what the Internet was before the 258 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: World Wide Web started to take shape, and even then, 259 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: the web was a pretty niche interest area, mostly like 260 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 1: students and some businesses and government agencies. So we're ignoring 261 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: the fact that you folks had been working on the 262 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: network of networks for a couple of decades at this point. 263 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: I mean, the Internet wasn't like it was brand new, period. 264 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: It was just something that for a lot of people 265 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: was an unknown entity until really the nineties. We were 266 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: just starting to gear up toward the fervor that would 267 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: lead to the dot com bubble in nineteen ninety six, 268 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: and so there was kind of a need to address things. 269 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: The nineteen ninety six Act made a lot of changes. 270 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: It made it okay for different types of companies to 271 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: jump into the business that was usually restrained for other industries. 272 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: So what this really meant was that two giant industries 273 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: were able to suddenly compete against one another. So you 274 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: had telephone companies which normally just offered telephone services, but 275 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: now because of the way that information could travel, could 276 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: actually also offer up video channels to subscribers. Then you 277 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: had cable companies that said, hang on, we can offer 278 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: telephone services to our customers. Dogs and cats living together, 279 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: mass hysteria. And it was not clear at first whether 280 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: or not it would be legal for these industries to 281 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: kind of branch out and to start to incorporate the 282 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: services of other industries into their own. This was a 283 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: muddy ground. The Act also defined, and I use the 284 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: term loosely, the concept of information services. So these are 285 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,959 Speaker 1: services that are all about sending, retrieving, storing information across 286 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: telecommunications services. So they're all the companies that facilitate information 287 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: moving from one point to another along various communication lines. 288 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: By the way, communication lines aren't always physical lines because 289 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: they this can include stuff like radio signals and that 290 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Now, information services would fall under Title 291 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,239 Speaker 1: one services. That would mean the FCC would not have 292 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: the legal authority to regulate any business that was classified 293 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: as Title one. So if a business were deemed to 294 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 1: be about information services, about the facilitating of information moving 295 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 1: across networks, they'd be Title one and the FCC couldn't 296 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: burst in and tell them how to do stuff. Now, 297 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 1: putting aside the complicating factor that a lot of companies 298 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: that facilitate the movement of information also own the infrastructure 299 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 1: that the information is moving across, that they are a 300 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: telecommunications company, it would mean that if they were deemed 301 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: an information services company, the FCC would not be able 302 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 1: to weigh in on their business, even though they also 303 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: would perform as a telecommunications company. At least the FCC 304 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: couldn't do so with any actual authority. The FCC could try, 305 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: but then the company could sue the FCC, take it 306 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 1: to the courts, and the courts would determine whether or 307 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: not the FCC actually had the authority to regulate, and 308 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: this began to raise concerns in the field of network communications. 309 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: So keep in mind that back in the nineties and 310 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: even into the early two thousands, folks weren't too concerned 311 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 1: about where the Internet was going yet, because it was 312 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: still fairly primitive, websites weren't particularly sophisticated. We had only 313 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: seen hints at what would become the uses that would 314 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: demand increasing amounts of bandwidth. So you weren't going to 315 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: be able to watch an ultra high definition movie on 316 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: streaming back in two thousand. For example, services like YouTube 317 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't come along until the mid two thousands. But even 318 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: though most uses of the Web and the Internet weren't 319 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: super bandwidth heavy, some people were starting to get a 320 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: little concerned about the lack of rules and regulations for 321 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: ISPs to follow. So they could see the writing on 322 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: the wall, ISPs would have an incentive to manage demand 323 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: on their networks. Now you can manage demand a lot 324 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: of different ways. You could do is you could try 325 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: and build out your infrastructure so it can handle more traffic, 326 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: but that requires a huge investment to do. Another thing 327 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 1: you could do is you could insert impediments to heavy 328 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: duty users of the Internet. You know, maybe slow down 329 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: stuff that would have a really heavy demand on the 330 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: bandwidth of your network, just throttle it so that way 331 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: everybody else can still use your network without having their 332 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: experience impacted as a result. Heck, maybe you identify something 333 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: that's causing huge spikes and Internet traffic across your network 334 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: and you just block it entirely. It's not like the 335 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: FCC could do anything about it because your title one service. Baby. 336 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: They would come down and say, hey, you can't block 337 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: this content, and you'd just say, yeah, I can, because 338 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: you can't stop me. You don't have the authority to 339 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: do it. Also, keep in mind this was the time 340 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: when peer to peer networks and piracy were starting to 341 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: go banana. That complicates things because not only did those 342 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: activities boost network activity right you started to see spikes 343 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: in network traffic, you also had these massive entertainment studios, 344 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: some of which would end up merging with these ISPs 345 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 1: that were threatening to bring down the hammer of thor 346 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: on anyone who facilitated the illegal sharing of intellectual property. 347 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: So you had the internal pressure of wanting to keep 348 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,160 Speaker 1: your network moving smoothly. You had external pressures saying, hey, 349 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: there's a lot of illegal activity going across your network 350 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:31,239 Speaker 1: and if you don't do something about it, there's going 351 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: to be a problem. And it all led to concerns 352 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:38,440 Speaker 1: that again, the entire landscape of Internet access in the 353 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: United States could become unfair, uneven, fractured. Even so, tons 354 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: of cable companies really pushed the FCC to classify their 355 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: services as Title I, as information services in other words, 356 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: rather than Title two, which would mean they would be 357 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: a carrier service or a cable provider as defined under 358 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:02,400 Speaker 1: the rarely mentioned Title three. So Title two common carriers 359 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: essentially Title III cable provider. The cable companies were saying, Oh, 360 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: we're not cable providers. We're information services. That's really what 361 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: we are. Yeah, some of us, some of our customers 362 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: are using our services to watch cable, but we're just 363 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: information services. We fall under Title I, and that would 364 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: mean that these cable companies could operate under less regulation, which, 365 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 1: to be fair, meant they could get away with a 366 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: whole lot more shenanigans than if they were forced to 367 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 1: play by a more strict set of rules. Now, some 368 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 1: would argue the looser regulations would give companies the chance 369 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: to create better services for customers, and that it could 370 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 1: lead to greater competition between providers in an effort to 371 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: find the best strategy to make a profit. It just 372 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: didn't turn out to do that. But yeah, this is 373 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 1: often an argument you will hear against regulation, the fear 374 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: that regulation will stifle competition and innovation, and as a result, 375 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: none of us get the really cool new stuff that 376 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: we would get if the government would just back the 377 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: heck off. Problem is, when the government does back the 378 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: heck off, often what we see as one company start 379 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: to dominate an industry, and then there's no incentive for 380 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: the company to innovate because that company already has all 381 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: the customers, Like, you don't need to win the customers. 382 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: You've got them all, So where's the incentive to do better. 383 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 1: It's a very complicated thing. And of course things got 384 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: even more messy because the FCC agreed that cable based 385 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: ISPs would fall under Title IE, and this angered other 386 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: types of ISPs like DSL providers. Right, so a cable 387 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: company that was an Internet service provider would be a 388 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: Title one service, but a DSL company that provided Internet 389 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: service would be considered a Title TiO entity, which meant 390 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: the DSL companies were saying, hey, you're giving cable companies 391 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: an unfair advantage. You're not imposing these rules on them, 392 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: but you are on us. Where's the logic in that? 393 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 1: So the whole matter went to court, and things kind 394 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: of flip flopped around for a bit. At one point, 395 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 1: the court found that the FCC had misclassified cable ISPs 396 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,120 Speaker 1: and said that they had to classify cable companies as 397 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: Title TiO because they were clearly telecommunications companies and not 398 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 1: just information services. And then the cable industry appealed this decision. 399 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: The whole thing ultimately went to the Supreme Court, and 400 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, led by Clarence Thomas, overturned that decision 401 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,879 Speaker 1: and said ISPs belong in the realm of Title I, 402 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: that the FCC did not make a mistake. Clarence Thomas 403 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: at some point allegedly said he regretted that decision, which 404 00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:42,640 Speaker 1: I mean the fact that he's capable of self reflection 405 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: should be a matter to celebrate, I guess, but doesn't 406 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: change the fact that that decision became the president. So 407 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: cable companies were Title IE, DSL was Title II. Now 408 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,879 Speaker 1: by this time you had lawmakers in the US realized 409 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,600 Speaker 1: that without certain protections in place, it was possible that 410 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: the whole Internet would become a fragmented, broken landscape, that 411 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: some ISP customers could have one experience and others would 412 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: have a much more inferior one because of these various 413 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: throttle rules and blocking and all that kind of stuff. 414 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 1: Maybe one ISP has access to most of the Internet 415 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 1: and another one doesn't, or maybe a powerful company potentially 416 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: stifles another one, thus killing innovation, doing the opposite of 417 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 1: what everyone was hoping the Title I classification would do. So, 418 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: the FCC came up with some basic ideas that would 419 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: form the foundation of net neutrality. So this was around 420 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:41,479 Speaker 1: two thousand and four, pretty late in the game, almost 421 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: a decade after the Telecommunications Act was passed, and these 422 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: net neutrality principles were fairly straightforward. One said that a 423 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 1: customer should be able to access whatever information they want 424 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 1: on the Internet, provided that the information is legal. You know, 425 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: there were exceptions for stuff like pirated content, for example, 426 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,520 Speaker 1: So it wasn't that you could access everything no matter 427 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: what your ISP was, but rather, if it was legal, 428 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 1: the ISP should not block a customer's access to that information. 429 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: The bit about using whatever device you wanted was in 430 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: those guidelines too, that an ISP shouldn't be able to 431 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: say no, you can't use x device. You have to 432 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: buy why device from us. That would be against the 433 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 1: principles of net neutrality. Plus consumers should be able to 434 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,720 Speaker 1: use whatever applications they wanted, again, assuming those applications are legal, 435 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: and other similar principles like the basic ideas behind net neutrality, 436 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: and they're great, but it didn't change the fact that 437 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,360 Speaker 1: the FCC didn't have the actual authority to enforce these 438 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: principles on any entity that was designated as Title I. Also, 439 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: by this time, DSL companies had successfully campaigned to become 440 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: reclassified under Title one, so we no longer had DSL 441 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: as Title II, and cable was Title one. Now both 442 00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: were Title I services. So in other words, the FCC 443 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,439 Speaker 1: was saying, hey, everybody, you got to play fair, but 444 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: they didn't have any actual authority to make anyone play fair. 445 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: It's like if a teacher were telling a kid you can't, 446 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 1: you know, no running, and the kids that you're not 447 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: my dad. This became really clear in twenty ten when 448 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: the FCC lost court cases where the agency had tried 449 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: to assert limited authority against Comcast and was found that 450 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: they couldn't do that. Now, the case was that Comcast 451 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: had been discovered to have throttled and perhaps even blocked, 452 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: some BitTorrent traffic on its networks, and that obviously goes 453 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: against the principles of net neutrality. Now, quick word about BitTorrent. 454 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: BitTorrent is a protocol for decentralized file sharing through peer 455 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 1: to peer connections. And to put it simply, imagine you've 456 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: got a network of ten computers. They're connected to each other. 457 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: Five of those computers have a specific file on them, 458 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: and your computer has just joined this network. You're the 459 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: tenth computer. You don't have that file. So what you 460 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: do is you download a torrent of that file, and 461 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: that torrent allows a file train between you and the 462 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: five computers on the system that currently have that file. 463 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: Whatever connection is best is the one that's going to 464 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,360 Speaker 1: be active. If that connection for some reason slows down, 465 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: it can switch to another one. That way, you download 466 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 1: the file as quickly as you can through a distributed 467 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: decentralized peer to peer network is a quick way to 468 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: transfer large files, and as files propagate across the network, 469 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: it gets easier and faster for new devices to download 470 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: that file. Now, there is nothing inherently illegal about that. 471 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: It is just a way to distribute files. You can 472 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:36,000 Speaker 1: use BitTorrent to download all sorts of stuff, including free 473 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,560 Speaker 1: software that has no restrictions on how it's shared, so 474 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: BitTorrent is just a means of conveyance. That being said, 475 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 1: one of the most popular uses of the technology was 476 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 1: the downloading of copyrighted material hiracy in other words, So 477 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 1: despite the fact that BitTorrent is really just a protocol 478 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: for filed transfers, in most circles, it became synonymous with piracy. 479 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: And so I imagine that that's why Comcasts started blocking 480 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: BitTorrent traffic on its network. And that means it would 481 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: affect you even if you weren't a content pirate, you 482 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: were just using BitTorrent to get some legitimate file. There 483 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: was a whole lawsuit about that, and it's kind of 484 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: when the FCC stepped in and said, hey, Comcast, you 485 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: did a bad thing, and Comcast was like, yo, you 486 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: can't say that because we're Titled I, you have no 487 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: power over us. And the courts ultimately found that indeed, 488 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: the FCC had no power over Comcasts because years earlier, 489 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: the FCC decided that companies like Comcast are Title I 490 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: entities and by definition, the FCC had no authority over them. 491 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 1: So things were starting to look like there needed to 492 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: be a big change. We'll talk about that more when 493 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: we come back from this break. All right, we're up 494 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: to twenty ten. That's when the FCC introduced some new 495 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: principles elected under a policy that the FCC called the 496 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: Open Internet Order, and these largely followed the earlier net 497 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: neutrality principles that were set out in two thousand and four, 498 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: saying that ISPs need to be clear and transparent about 499 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: their services so that customers can make informed decisions when 500 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: choosing an ISP or when evaluating their existing ISP, like 501 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: they couldn't just hide stuff away in other words, Also, 502 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: the FCC reiterated that ISPs should not block any content 503 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: or devices from their networks. They also introduced similar rules 504 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: for mobile carriers that were now offering ISP services, and 505 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: there were some other stuff in the guidelines too, But 506 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: the rules didn't magically change ISPs from Title IE to 507 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: Title two, so you could say the guidelines didn't even 508 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 1: really mean anything because the FCC still lacked the ability 509 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: to enforce the rules. Yes, technically ISPs needed to be 510 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: more transparent, but when the FCC doesn't have the authority 511 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: to enforce those rules, then if they're not transparent, there's 512 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: not really anything you can do about it. So it's 513 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: like a rule that doesn't have any bite to it. Now. 514 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm skipping over tons of stuff here, but generally speaking, 515 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: what we saw over the following years was a kind 516 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: of impasse. The FCC tried to find various workarounds to 517 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: try and enforce rules against ISPs, using language that had 518 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: been drafted back in the nineteen thirties to try and 519 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,719 Speaker 1: justify its actions, saying, hey, because of the way this 520 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: is worded in nineteen thirty that means that we can 521 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:34,560 Speaker 1: actually enforce this rule against a Title I service. Courts 522 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: were not entirely sympathetic to this strategy. It felt a 523 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: lot like someone trying to stretch a definition in order 524 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: to give legitimacy for their actions. So it just seemed 525 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,400 Speaker 1: like there wasn't really a way forward unless there were 526 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: a total change in how the government treats ISPs, namely 527 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: that ISPs collectively would need to go from the unregulated 528 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: title IE Information Services category and then be reclassified into 529 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: the Title to Telecommunications Services and Common Carrier category. As 530 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: you might imagine, such a move would be pretty difficult 531 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:15,240 Speaker 1: to pull off. The telecommunications industry is enormous, It is powerful, 532 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: it is willing to spend a whole lot of dollars 533 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: to lobby for favorable laws and regulations. If that weren't 534 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: the case, we would not be in a situation where 535 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 1: most Americans have very few choices when it comes to ISPs, 536 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: and we wouldn't have stories about how existing telecommunications companies 537 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: campaigned to keep news services from gaining access to things 538 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: like utility polls, which happened in the early days of 539 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 1: Google Fiber, or opposing things like municipal Wi Fi. So 540 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,280 Speaker 1: around twenty fifteen, the FCC, with encouragement from then President 541 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: Barack Obama, set out to reclassify ISPs as titled to entities. 542 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: The industry immediately began to sue FCC to challenge this move. Ultimately, 543 00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: the goal was to say that the FCC didn't have 544 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: the authority to reclassify ISPs, that it would need an 545 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: Act from Congress, and that would at least buy the 546 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: telecommunications company some time to you know, grease the wheels 547 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: and make sure Congress remain lenient toward them. It essentially 548 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: would mean that net neutrality would be dead in the water, 549 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: because unless you have an overwhelming majority in both Houses 550 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: of Congress and a sympathetic president, getting any legislation to 551 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: pass that would enforce net neutrality would be incredibly difficult. 552 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: But the FCC was going ahead with this plan, and 553 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,959 Speaker 1: all of this as it was going on, had politics 554 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:47,080 Speaker 1: shifting once again, because around this time that's when Donald Trump, 555 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: who made it very clear he was staunchly against reclassifying 556 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:56,360 Speaker 1: ISPs as Title two, became President. Trump, while he was campaigning, 557 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: said that the move to classify ISPs as Title two 558 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: would somehow have a negative impact on free speech, particularly 559 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: free speech from conservative voices. I don't know what his 560 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 1: logic was, if you can call it that, on that argument, like, 561 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,120 Speaker 1: I don't know how being classified as Title I would 562 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:22,080 Speaker 1: suddenly make ISPs incapable of carrying conservative viewpoints. I don't 563 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,399 Speaker 1: there's a disconnect there. I just don't understand it as 564 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:28,919 Speaker 1: a justification for saying they shouldn't be Title two. There 565 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: are other arguments that I've heard against classifying ISPs as 566 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: Title two that at least have some grounding to them. 567 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 1: I don't know what the grounding is for that argument. 568 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: The new FCC under Trump's administration got to work rolling 569 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: back the changes of the previous FCC, So that's one 570 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,080 Speaker 1: of the big challenges of the US as well, right, 571 00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: because you have these agencies, these agencies like the FCC 572 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: where the role of the FCC it comes under appointment. 573 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,880 Speaker 1: When position opens up, the current president can appoint someone 574 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: to that position. Often they have to get approval like 575 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:11,760 Speaker 1: depending on the agency. But that means that as administrations change, 576 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,840 Speaker 1: the nature of these agencies change, so the politics change, 577 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: the priorities change. In the case of Trump taking over 578 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:24,279 Speaker 1: in the United States, it meant that the new FCC 579 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: had a diametrically opposed opinion about net neutrality, and the 580 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: whole reclassification of ISPs to Title two hit reverse. The 581 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 1: new FCC chair a Jitpi, pushed for ISPs to go 582 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: back to being Title one and to strip away many 583 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 1: of the rules that applied to net neutrality in the process. 584 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:47,680 Speaker 1: ISPs would still technically need to follow transparency rules, at 585 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: least they're supposed to. But then again, when you don't 586 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 1: have an ability to enforce a rule, then the rule 587 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: is kind of just there for show. Right. If an 588 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: ISP wanted to, they could be transparent and say I'm 589 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: going to throttle this traffic from this other provider. That 590 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: would also be fine because again they just would be 591 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: disclosing what they were going to do, but there were 592 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: no rules to prevent them from doing it, so they 593 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: could just say, Hey, I'm gonna do this thing that 594 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:16,279 Speaker 1: you don't like, and there's nothing you can do about it, 595 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: but I'm at least telling you about it, because I'm 596 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,879 Speaker 1: supposed to like you could do that. But yeah, why 597 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,480 Speaker 1: even bother disclosing if there are no teeth to the rules. Anyway, 598 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: during the Trump administration, the FCC's moved to put ISPs 599 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: into Title iiO classification when it totally in reverse. And 600 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: as we know, Trump then got voted out of office. 601 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,360 Speaker 1: I mean, he disputes that, but the courts sure haven't. 602 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: And then with Joe Biden's administration, the tides have changed 603 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,319 Speaker 1: yet again. A couple of years ago, Biden signed an 604 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,880 Speaker 1: executive order that told the FCC to go back to 605 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:55,000 Speaker 1: getting net neutrality rules restored. Congress has also tried a 606 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: couple of times to get a law going that would 607 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: create a stronger framework for net neutrality and to remove 608 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,040 Speaker 1: some of the ambiguity of the FCC's role and the 609 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:06,120 Speaker 1: extent of its authority. So some of these would give 610 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 1: FCC the express authority to do things like reclassify ISPs. 611 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,880 Speaker 1: That has been one of those matters that cable companies 612 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: have argued that the FCC doesn't have the authority to 613 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: make that determination. Even though they made the initial determination 614 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: of who goes into what category, they're saying the FCC 615 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,360 Speaker 1: doesn't have the authority to change that. So there have 616 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 1: been a couple of attempts from Congress to get laws 617 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,840 Speaker 1: passed that would clear this up and make it less ambiguous, 618 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 1: but they haven't really gone anywhere. They've never passed both 619 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 1: the House and the Senate and then been signed into law. 620 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,399 Speaker 1: There's always been opposition in one House or the other, 621 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: or just a lack of gumption to move the legislation forward, 622 00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:54,880 Speaker 1: so it hasn't gone anywhere. Typically, support for net neutrality 623 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 1: falls along party lines. Democrats aren't generally favorable toward it, 624 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: Republicans are generally against it, or rather Republicans are generally 625 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:08,760 Speaker 1: against government regulation. Now, for being fair, you can definitely 626 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 1: see examples throughout the history of the United States where 627 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,520 Speaker 1: regulation did have negative consequences, but you can also see 628 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: plenty of examples where a lack of regulation led to 629 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: huge problems. So I think it's safe to say that 630 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: it's complicated, and we humans are good at mess and 631 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 1: stuff up. So I don't think it's as easy to 632 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,720 Speaker 1: say that regulation is good or regulation is bad, because 633 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:35,919 Speaker 1: it has to be designed and enforced properly, and that's 634 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,799 Speaker 1: a big that's a big if. Personally, I am in 635 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: favor of following rules that create a fair playing field 636 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,960 Speaker 1: across all ISPs and content providers. I do not think 637 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,720 Speaker 1: it's fair if an ISP decides it will only carry 638 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 1: a content provider's content if they pay extra. For example, 639 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: that this tiered internet approach I think is a bad 640 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,120 Speaker 1: thing where they say, yeah, we'll carry your streams, but 641 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: you have to pay us extra if you want it 642 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: to go fast. I don't think that's a good idea. 643 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: I mean, it might not be a huge impediment to 644 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: a big company that's got a lot of resources, but 645 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,640 Speaker 1: to smaller ones it could absolutely prevent them from being 646 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: able to be discovered by the customers of that particular ISP, 647 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: and it could be a death sentence. Like imagine if 648 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: a restaurant opened on a road and the roads were 649 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: all suddenly converted to private ownership, and the owner of 650 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 1: that road said that the restaurant has to cover the 651 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: costs of people going to it, Like it has to 652 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: pay for people to be able to drive down the 653 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: road and park at that restaurant. That would probably be 654 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,080 Speaker 1: the death knell of that restaurant. So that's kind of 655 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 1: the similar concern about the tiered approach. And also, like 656 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: I said before, another big concern is that a lot 657 00:39:56,200 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: of ISPs are also enormous content providers themselves, So what 658 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: stops them from giving themselves preferential treatment while trying to 659 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:10,640 Speaker 1: restrict everybody else. So once again, let's talk about Comcast. 660 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,600 Speaker 1: It is a huge telecommunications company, it's an enormous media company. 661 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: In twenty eleven it became the parent company to NBC Universal. 662 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: So if Comcast decided to give its own streaming service, 663 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, like Peacock a boost and then throttle traffic 664 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,919 Speaker 1: from Max for example, that's the streaming service from Warner 665 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: Brothers Discovery previously known as HBO Max, well, that seems 666 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 1: like a pretty clear anti competitive move right, And generally speaking, 667 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: the US has policy that's against companies behaving in anti 668 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: competitive ways. At least that's the ideal. Whether the government 669 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: actively pursues that ideal tends to depend upon whom's in 670 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,800 Speaker 1: charge and their opinions toward regulation. Right now, we're seeing 671 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: a much more active FCC as well as an SEC. 672 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: Like all the initial agencies out there that are related 673 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 1: to things like fairness in the market, a lot of 674 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,600 Speaker 1: them are taking a much more firm stance against anti 675 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:14,640 Speaker 1: competitive behavior Right now, that's the current attitude in US government, 676 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,240 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean it's going to be the same. 677 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 1: In another couple of years, it may completely change. That's 678 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:23,319 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why this is so complicated is 679 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:27,880 Speaker 1: because there's not a steady through line of support. But 680 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,800 Speaker 1: that's kind of the update on net neutrality. The matter 681 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: is extremely complicated. I'm not going to pretend that I 682 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,959 Speaker 1: have a handle on all the nuanced components. Like I said, 683 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: I do think there's some logical arguments that criticize net neutrality, 684 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,360 Speaker 1: or at least how government regulation can create new problems 685 00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: while trying to address existing ones. I just feel like 686 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,359 Speaker 1: end consumers in the US tend to be the real 687 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:56,399 Speaker 1: victims in this war. And now we should probably talk 688 00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,800 Speaker 1: a little bit more about the scandal that actually prompted 689 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: this whole episode in the first so, as I mentioned earlier, 690 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,279 Speaker 1: the attorney General for the State of New York has 691 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 1: been going after several companies that sought to skew the 692 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,320 Speaker 1: public comments around net neutrality back during adjut Pie's crusade 693 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: to reverse the reclassification of ISPs as Title II services. 694 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,040 Speaker 1: So when the FCC makes these kinds of determinations, when 695 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,000 Speaker 1: they're about to vote on something, they will often open 696 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,280 Speaker 1: matters up for public comment. This gives the general public 697 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:29,840 Speaker 1: the opportunity to share their thoughts about issues in communication 698 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: systems that ultimately will affect them. Now. Typically, the FCC 699 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,799 Speaker 1: will create a website for an issue, and then it 700 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: will urge people to go to that website and to 701 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,799 Speaker 1: leave their thoughts there. These sites are open for a 702 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,759 Speaker 1: set amount of time, and at the end of that time, 703 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: the comments are closed off and the FCC reviews them 704 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,319 Speaker 1: before they make their vote. They have no obligation to 705 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: obey public opinion, but the idea is that the FCC 706 00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,920 Speaker 1: can take that public opinion into consideration before they vote 707 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,440 Speaker 1: on a matter. If they say, like, Wow, the the 708 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,560 Speaker 1: US public is overwhelmingly against this, that might make them 709 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 1: think twice into voting it into action. Well, when it 710 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 1: came time to open up public comments on repealing the 711 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: title to reclassification of ISPs. It appears that the broad 712 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:19,959 Speaker 1: band industry turned to some generating firms to help get 713 00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 1: public support for nixing net neutrality, for reversing that decision 714 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 1: or reversing the reclassification. Allegedly, the broadband companies were saying, hey, 715 00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 1: can you like generate some messaging that is going to 716 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 1: convince yahoos on the Internet that they don't really want 717 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 1: net neutrality, And so they paid these companies to do that, 718 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 1: and the companies allegedly said, yes, we can do that. 719 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: But instead what they allegedly did, I mean, the New 720 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: York Attorney General Office said they absolutely did it was 721 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,960 Speaker 1: they impersonated around one and a half million people and 722 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: they went to the FCC website and posted support for 723 00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,280 Speaker 1: appealing net neutrality rules. By the way, this was actually 724 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:02,359 Speaker 1: suspected while it was going on. There were folks who 725 00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,880 Speaker 1: were keeping an eye on those public comments, and there 726 00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,040 Speaker 1: were lots and lots of articles back in twenty seventeen 727 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,759 Speaker 1: that many of the comments that were being left supporting 728 00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,400 Speaker 1: this move to strip net neutrality rules were actually bogus, 729 00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: that these were fake comments that were supporting an unpopular policy. 730 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,320 Speaker 1: The Attorney General's office had secured agreements with three different 731 00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,640 Speaker 1: companies to hand over more than half a million dollars 732 00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,120 Speaker 1: in fines for participating in this scheme. Now, if you 733 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: ask me, those three companies got off lightly because I'm 734 00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:36,480 Speaker 1: sure you would be upset to find out that some 735 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:41,600 Speaker 1: company somewhere had posted something online while claiming to be you, 736 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:47,480 Speaker 1: particularly if they were saying something that you adamantly disagree with, 737 00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:50,799 Speaker 1: and you might wonder how bad could it all be? 738 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,279 Speaker 1: Like one and a half million impersonated people, That is 739 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,799 Speaker 1: a lot, there's no denying that. But how bad is 740 00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,399 Speaker 1: that in the overall scheme? Of the comments that left 741 00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,960 Speaker 1: on the FCC well, according to an investigation, there were 742 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: around twenty two million comments left on the FCC request 743 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: for public comment, and an investigation in twenty twenty one 744 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 1: uncovered that out of those twenty two million comments, eighteen 745 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: million of them were fake. So the vast majority of 746 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 1: comments left were fake ones trying to skew the results 747 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,399 Speaker 1: and not trying they did skew. I mean, that's that's 748 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:34,400 Speaker 1: the vast majority of the comments left were left in 749 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: order to create this message that the public wanted the 750 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:43,600 Speaker 1: title to reclassification repealed. So yeah, it is a rigged game. 751 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:45,959 Speaker 1: I mean, that is the definition of a rigged game. 752 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,720 Speaker 1: It is rigged, and the penalties for rigging the game 753 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 1: are minuscule. Half a million dollars spread across three companies 754 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:57,719 Speaker 1: is nothing. Plus even with that, it doesn't reverse the 755 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:01,440 Speaker 1: decisions that were made, even though those decisions at least 756 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:06,160 Speaker 1: partly relied on fake public opinion to justify the decision, 757 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 1: So the results of that fakery are still in play. 758 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: Like that doesn't change at all. You're like, shame on 759 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 1: you for fooling everyone. But the decisions that were made 760 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: based upon those false comments those stand so also interesting. 761 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,200 Speaker 1: By the way, at the time, back in twenty seventeen, 762 00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,040 Speaker 1: when all this was happening, ajit Pie resisted calls to 763 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,720 Speaker 1: investigate the comments. But then, I mean, if fake comments 764 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,680 Speaker 1: are in support of your position, I guess you don't 765 00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:37,200 Speaker 1: have much of an incentive to investigate if those comments 766 00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,360 Speaker 1: are real or not because they're supporting your side. So yeah, 767 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: it is an ugly business. Again, Personally, I'm in favor 768 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: of net neutrality. I am interested in some of the 769 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:52,239 Speaker 1: arguments against it, and again, I think a lot of 770 00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 1: that comes back to how government regulation has been poorly 771 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: designed and implemented in the past often can lead to 772 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: corruption as well. Well, I mean, it's it just comes 773 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,840 Speaker 1: down to the fact that some people will see a 774 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,680 Speaker 1: system and figure out how they can personally profit off 775 00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,080 Speaker 1: of it, even if it means everyone else suffers in 776 00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 1: the process. So yeah, fun times. I don't I'm not 777 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 1: ever going to say net neutrality is totally dead, nor 778 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:19,520 Speaker 1: am I ever going to say it is protected forever 779 00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,879 Speaker 1: and ever, because as we have seen over the last 780 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:27,319 Speaker 1: two decades, things can change quickly and dramatically, so I 781 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,920 Speaker 1: suspect it will really depend upon whomever's in charge and 782 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:34,200 Speaker 1: what the prevailing attitude towards the concept is at the time. 783 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 1: So I'm sure in ten years, if I'm still doing 784 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 1: this show, I will revisit this and have yet another 785 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:44,480 Speaker 1: look back on net neutrality. That's it. I hope you're 786 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,959 Speaker 1: all well and I'll talk to you again really soon. 787 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,920 Speaker 1: Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 788 00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,640 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 789 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,080 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.