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Speaker 1: Welcome to another edition of The Giants Little Podcast, brought

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Speaker 1: to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants.

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Speaker 1: I am John Smelk. Today we are joined by Jordan

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Speaker 1: and On. He covers the Giants and has for how

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Speaker 1: many years now, Jordan, have you on the.

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Speaker 2: Beat too long? I mean we're over a decade now,

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Speaker 2: so I think I came in the middle of thirteen

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Speaker 2: the great your fault, Everything's gone wrong. So you know,

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Speaker 2: my friends say that all the time, like would you

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Speaker 2: do the Giants to be fair? I came in the

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Speaker 2: middle of thirteen, twenty thirteen, and they were already going

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Speaker 2: five that years. Okay, they were already going down, actually

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Speaker 2: finished strong that year. They did about it, they did, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it hasn't been good since. Now this is season thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Now you have written a book. It's called The Franchise

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Speaker 1: New York Giants, A Curated History of Big Blue. Check

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Speaker 1: it out at all your favorite bookstores. And I'm going

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Speaker 1: to ask you a very basic question, Jordan, what's your

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Speaker 1: book about?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, you know what, it's a really a focus

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Speaker 2: on the Super Bowl years. It's really mostly just fun

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Speaker 2: stories from the Super Bowl years. So essentially we do

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Speaker 2: a quick overview of the history of the franchise, a

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Speaker 2: lot of it through the eyes of John Mara, who

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Speaker 2: was very uh generous with his time. And then each

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Speaker 2: section is about the Super Bowl year, so the four

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Speaker 2: Super Bowl wins plus the two thousand season, which was

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Speaker 2: a fun one to actually go through that. It was

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Speaker 2: a very fun team that we were actually just in

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Speaker 2: Detroit recently. And Lomas Brown was the guy, yeah, pushed

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Speaker 2: the chips in the table featured in that chapter. Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Loomas Brown was great because he was apparently like a

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Speaker 2: team captain on that team and very well respected. He

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Speaker 2: was a veteran offensive line and they had like a

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Speaker 2: makes a veteran offensive line at that time. And he

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Speaker 2: was telling me, and he was probably I think the

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Speaker 2: first one to tell me when Fossil did the famous

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Speaker 2: pushed the chips in the table in the middle of

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Speaker 2: the table, We're going to make the playoffs, like I

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Speaker 2: guarantee you kind of deal. He said that Fossil actually

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Speaker 2: had told him he was going to do that before

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Speaker 2: he did it, so it was kind of a planned

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Speaker 2: approach by Jim Fossel that year. And uh yeah, So

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Speaker 2: it was that was a fun chapter to do actually

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Speaker 2: a lot, because you know, it's it's a interesting when

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Speaker 2: you're we were younger at the time, so yeah, we

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Speaker 2: kind of knew it was going on, but you're not

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Speaker 2: fully fully invested, and it was a different world, so

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Speaker 2: you're not you know, you know, it's whatever you read

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Speaker 2: and can get your hands on at the time in

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Speaker 2: like you know, two thousand or even especially the eighties

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Speaker 2: forget about it course, so the history that you remember

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Speaker 2: is like a very broad history and then sort of

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Speaker 2: actually go over and hear the actual stories of the

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Speaker 2: things that happened. It was pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of designed like an oral history where

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Speaker 1: it's told through the voices of people that were revolved.

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Speaker 1: And I like how it's separating into sections. You have

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Speaker 1: eighty six, ninety, two thousand, and then seven and eleven.

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Speaker 2: You can almost read them separately and just jump in

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Speaker 2: and absolutely and read at any point, which is I

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Speaker 2: think good. It makes like a coffee table type sound.

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to that two thousand season

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Speaker 1: because that was one of my favorite chapters too. And

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Speaker 1: you know, you said it was pre planned, but the

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Speaker 1: front office didn't know that Jim Foxx was going to

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Speaker 1: do that, which is a little my favorite Partsy goes

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Speaker 1: up and he goes, guys, this is what I just

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Speaker 1: told the being that like you did what now? And

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Speaker 1: I remember I was I was in college then and

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Speaker 1: I was hosting our Adobe the Cheap Seats Monday Friday

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Speaker 1: night WNYU sports radio show, and I laughed when he

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Speaker 1: did that, and I remember, I'm like, hold on a second.

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Speaker 1: They were at first place. There's seven and four. They're

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Speaker 1: playing the Cardinals this week, who were terrible. The rest

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Speaker 1: of their schedule was easy. This wasn't exactly like we're

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Speaker 1: two games back, but I'm guaranteeing in the division.

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Speaker 2: That was part of the deal. A lot of the

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Speaker 2: guys thought like it was so pre planned, like hey,

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Speaker 2: this is a good spot to do it. He had

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Speaker 2: nothing to lose because he was under pressure. They kind

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Speaker 2: of had to make the playoffs because the year before

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Speaker 2: they kind of fell apart. Yep, and you know, Wellington

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Speaker 2: Marrow was really ticked off with the way the season

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Speaker 2: before ended and put kind of put them on notice.

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Speaker 2: He's actually spoke in the locker room, and he never did.

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Speaker 2: They always said that he was always there and always around,

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Speaker 2: but he never did that. And he did that the

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Speaker 2: previous year and they knew it put everyone unnoticed, and

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Speaker 2: so he did this pre planned approach, and the guys

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Speaker 2: were saying, like he really had nothing to lose, even

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Speaker 2: though by guaranteeing it, because either if they didn't make

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Speaker 2: the playoffs, he was gonna get fired anyway, right, you know,

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Speaker 2: So now he looks like a genius because he did

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Speaker 2: this great motivating tactic, but really, and Strahan was the

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Speaker 2: one that said this was like, really, what was he doing?

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Speaker 2: He was putting his chips in, but that's really what

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Speaker 2: the reality was. Anyway, he was gonna be either fired

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Speaker 2: if they didn't make the playoffs or he would be

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Speaker 2: a hero if they did make the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: And I like you kind of make the comparison to

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Speaker 1: the chapter how the Giants have had this tradition of

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Speaker 1: having really good coordinators and assistant coaches that have really

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Speaker 1: helped them get where they need to go, and you

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Speaker 1: kind of make the Langi Lombardi comparison to then John

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Speaker 1: Fox and Sean Payton on that two thousand team where

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Speaker 1: both guys were head coaches for teams that made the

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Speaker 1: Super Bowl. Sean Payne and this game win a super

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Speaker 1: Bowl later in their career.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, very good. I mean, obviously that's a really high

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Speaker 2: level coaching staff when you have Jim foss I mean,

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Speaker 2: Jim Fossil is the head coach with Sean Payton and

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Speaker 2: John running the two sides there, and so for sure,

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Speaker 2: I mean, and it was interesting to hear the two

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Speaker 2: thousand group because there was some veteran guys there, you know,

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Speaker 2: the Jesse Ormstens of the world. And how when John

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Speaker 2: Fox got there. Funny story about John Fox and leaving

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Speaker 2: the Raiders and Al Davis basically just scot up and

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Speaker 2: left one day. He's dude, I'm not dealing with anymore.

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Speaker 2: I'm out exactly. His wife with the story was his wife.

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Speaker 2: He just came home in the middle of the afternoon

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Speaker 2: in the sun and then his wife was like, what

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Speaker 2: are you doing home? Like you sure this was a

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Speaker 2: good idea And no, he got that job with the

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Speaker 2: giants and guys, like Jesse Arms said, like, he came

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Speaker 2: in there. They didn't love him at first, they were like,

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Speaker 2: who is this guy?

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Speaker 1: He's very intended not to like new coaches when they

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Speaker 1: first came in the building. That seems to be a

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Speaker 1: theme with him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well they end up liking with that, correct. Yes,

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Speaker 2: I believe Jesse every year that he made the Pro

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Speaker 2: Bowl in his career was with John Fox as his coordinator. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And you tell a great story Jason Seahorn making the

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Speaker 1: big interception. Yes, she us a lot of except from

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Speaker 1: Papa's interview with Sehorn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and because it was funny because I was

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Speaker 2: having trouble getting in touch with Seahorn, so I watched

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Speaker 2: and he did a great job of like explaining every

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Speaker 2: little details he did. Ever it wrong, but it exactly right.

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Speaker 2: And then Seahorn actually ended up calling me, But it

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Speaker 2: was the detail was so good in the video with

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Speaker 2: Papa that I used it anyway, even though he did

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Speaker 2: end up calling me. Getting in touch.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So I thought that was a great chapter. What

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Speaker 1: did you learn about the eighty six and ninety teams

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Speaker 1: that maybe you didn't know before you started running the book?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when you talk to like Harry about how it

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Speaker 2: was kind of built up like that was such a

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Speaker 2: big deal for him to like get over the top.

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Speaker 2: He had been there so long. Who was it was,

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Speaker 2: Harry George Martin? George Martin, Yeah, they were like the

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Speaker 2: two long standing veterans. It was always there was such

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Speaker 2: a big pull of we have to do it for

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Speaker 2: these guys, right, and then just how much you knew

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Speaker 2: they You know, I was six years old, you know,

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Speaker 2: in eighty eighty five. So in eighty five they lost

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Speaker 2: to the Bears, right, and you didn't I didn't realize

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Speaker 2: how much that game was important to the eighty six season,

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Speaker 2: like that was the game. They looked at that loss

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Speaker 2: in the playoffs the previous year to the Bears as

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Speaker 2: like the impetus for putting everything together the following year.

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Speaker 2: And then how that it was such a big pull

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Speaker 2: for that team, like, hey, we need to get over

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Speaker 2: the hump. How do we get over the hump? What

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Speaker 2: can we do to get over the hump? And so

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Speaker 2: that was really interesting to me. And then you know

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Speaker 2: the whole gatorade story. Yeah, I kind of knew it,

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Speaker 2: like you knew you always heard, oh yeah, the eighty

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Speaker 2: six Giants invented the gatorade dump, but really like going

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Speaker 2: through it, like you know, like I said, I was

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Speaker 2: super young, I didn't actually know they did it a

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Speaker 2: couple of years before.

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Speaker 1: Jim Burt has like revenge on parcels.

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Speaker 2: Just picked off at him. Yeah, yeah, and like that's

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Speaker 2: apparently like the kind of thing like you had to

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Speaker 2: be able to. Like Parcels always dished it right, so

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Speaker 2: he had to be able to. He was a big

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Speaker 2: believer and you had to be able to take it.

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Speaker 2: And he did. Yeah, he did, That's what I mean.

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Speaker 2: And that when you stand up for yourself, that's how

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Speaker 2: you like earned his trust and you earned his respect.

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Speaker 2: And so Jim Burt like that was his moment. Hey,

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Speaker 2: he was picking on him, like it was constantly on

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Speaker 2: Jim Burt, and he did that and then he earned

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Speaker 2: his respect. Also, the Parcels hearing him, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: getting the opportunity to talk to him and hearing how

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Speaker 2: important the Giants are to him, not just because he

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Speaker 2: was the coach here, but because he grew up like

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Speaker 2: it was like being part of the Giants actually meant

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Speaker 2: a lot to him even beforehand. And to hear about

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Speaker 2: how you know, he grew up this big giant fan

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Speaker 2: and how that that part that was so important to

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Speaker 2: him and that's why would you know he got the

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Speaker 2: opportunity to come here. It was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: the New York Giants. And so hearing an older Parcels

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Speaker 2: at this point sit there and reminisce about the lore

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Speaker 2: of the organization was interesting. I didn't really know that

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Speaker 2: like that, like that kind of detail about Parcels' background. Hop,

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Speaker 2: get in here, if you're lined up here, you gotta

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Speaker 2: go over the middle with at the score great? How

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Speaker 2: do we make that happen? I don't know, but citizens does?

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Speaker 2: It makes sense of your money with Citizens Official Bank

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Speaker 2: of Eli Manning And.

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Speaker 1: The part I like about the chapter on ninety. We

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Speaker 1: all know about the Belichick game plan, make the Bills

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Speaker 1: run the football and all that stuff, But the way

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Speaker 1: you talk about how he had to convince the players

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Speaker 1: to go along with it because just their character was

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Speaker 1: that no, no, no, we don't give up rushing yards,

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Speaker 1: and they had to Beljake had to convince them that

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Speaker 1: that was the way you win the game.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, that Giants defense, you know, that whole

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Speaker 2: stretch there, like that was a dominant Giants defense, and

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Speaker 2: to like give up one hundred rushing yards to them

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Speaker 2: was like a cardinal sin, right, So to like convince them, hey,

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Speaker 2: this is what we're gonna do. But then when he

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Speaker 2: told him, hey, the idea is the second Andre Reid

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Speaker 2: gets the ball, we're just gonna hit him, and we're

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Speaker 2: gonna hit him relentlessly and hit him hard. They were like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I think I think that kind of was like the

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Speaker 2: sales pitch and the like okay, that kind of that's

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Speaker 2: a kind of entice came. We didn't sit back and

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Speaker 2: just tee off and Andre Reid.

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Speaker 1: Banks had a great quote about something Reid said to

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Speaker 1: him when he saw him, like a couple of weeks later,

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Speaker 1: I forget what the quote was. It is like I

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Speaker 1: thought I was gonna die or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Basically, I think he was. He was on the pain

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Speaker 2: on the field in pain after he hit him, and

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Speaker 2: he was he kind of got up because he wanted

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Speaker 2: to pretend he sean, but he said like when he

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Speaker 2: next when he met him, like I think it was

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Speaker 2: that off season, Yeah, something like that, dude, I felt

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Speaker 2: that was going to die on after you hit me,

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Speaker 2: Like he remembered that specific hit and how much pain

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Speaker 2: he was in. All right.

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Speaker 1: I did not get all the way through the seven

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Speaker 1: and eleven chapters, Yet, what was it about that seventeen

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Speaker 1: that jumped out to you that you thought kind of

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Speaker 1: really made that group special and that you maybe again

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Speaker 1: learned that you didn't know before you started going.

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Speaker 2: Through I think you know, you kind of remember, but

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Speaker 2: like Eli all said and done, wins two super Bowls,

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Speaker 2: great career, right, all these accomplishments. At the time though,

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Speaker 2: oh he was still not fully respected, and so going

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Speaker 2: into the playoff runt, it was actually Ronde did an

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Speaker 2: interview What a Different World with the New York Post

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Speaker 2: and was like, oh, yeah, you just pressure him and

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Speaker 2: you make him make mistakes, like flat out just came

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Speaker 2: out and said that the week of the game. So

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Speaker 2: like Eli really had to earn the respect of really

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Speaker 2: not and we're not like talking about just rivals the

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Speaker 2: holek and like you kind of forget about that because

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Speaker 2: in totality we're sitting here now, like, look, he's manning, right,

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Speaker 2: he was Peyton's brother, Archie's son, and then he has

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Speaker 2: his great resume. But you forget at the time. And

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Speaker 2: I do remember early in his career, like Eli took

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Speaker 2: a lot of hits. It was, you know, it was

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Speaker 2: very up and down, a lot of interceptions, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a very early in his career. What was it,

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Speaker 1: Week ten against the Vikings the Super Bowl and Darren

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Speaker 1: Scharfter picked them off twice and like there was backpage

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Speaker 1: of the papers in New York Dwan was a post

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Speaker 1: fire cop wood fire of course, and then they end.

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Speaker 2: Up going all the way and that was a funny story,

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Speaker 2: so straight I think it was straight hand and a

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Speaker 2: bunch of those guys tuk. They were at an event.

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Speaker 2: They were talking about how when Elike kept throwing the

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Speaker 2: pick sixes, and they would get up and they would

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Speaker 2: be like, you know, I think they have to go

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Speaker 2: back on the field, and they ran him back and

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Speaker 2: they would be like, hey, we got we just got

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Speaker 2: the rest of like the whole game, of the whole game,

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Speaker 2: and they were raking, ragging on elives about it to

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Speaker 2: this day. That's about how funny it was there, Like

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Speaker 2: they're sitting on the side line laughing that they're gay

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Speaker 2: that they don't have to go back on the field.

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Speaker 2: They just keep wrestling. And Eli was like, no, I

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Speaker 2: didn't find that that funny as he threw pick six

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Speaker 2: And also like the idea that Tom Coughlin almost got

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Speaker 2: fired and like that that's a real thing, like going

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Speaker 2: into the seventh like he had just made the playoffs

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Speaker 2: two years in a row. Like the idea that he

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Speaker 2: had to go fight for his job before that season.

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Speaker 2: In retrospect even to this day, is staggering to have

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Speaker 2: to think about it.

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Speaker 1: Shows you how expectations can change depending on the era

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Speaker 1: or eleven.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're seriously the Giants wish they had that problem now, right,

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Speaker 2: And then twenty eleven, same thing was to talk about

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Speaker 2: his job being in jeopardy and so what does he do?

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Speaker 2: He goes wins the Super Bowl again, But to hear

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Speaker 2: him talk about it, I mean him and John like

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Speaker 2: they they weren't they didn't deny that, like they were

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Speaker 2: fully like, oh yeah, he basically had to go beg

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Speaker 2: for his job, Like he had to go up there

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Speaker 2: a plan, you know, and to ownership. And I'm talking

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Speaker 2: about Coughlin in two thousand and seven, and obviously it worked.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that worked out pretty well. And then

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Speaker 1: any of the Super Bowl that year, just you know,

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Speaker 1: managing the Burst thing, you know, whether he was going

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Speaker 1: to play in the game. Then you had Brady with

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Speaker 1: the quote, you know, about holding to a certain points

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Speaker 1: and that sort of.

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Speaker 2: Stuff, and that they were all going to score seventeen points.

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Speaker 2: I think it was Yeah, I think that was right. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they we're not going to score We're only going to

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Speaker 2: score seventeen points or something whatever it was because Plaxico

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Speaker 2: predicted the score basically, right, Yes, I mean, I don't

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Speaker 2: know what you think.

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Speaker 1: That To me, that Patriot team is still probably the

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Speaker 1: best single individual team I've ever seen play before, the

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Speaker 1: way they.

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Speaker 2: Crushing everybody, Like, I mean, they were just so good

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Speaker 2: at everything, Like there was nothing that that team could do.

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Speaker 2: And that was a better version of Brady than young Brady. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: when they were winning super Bowls?

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Speaker 1: Left, did the guys make a big deal in your

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Speaker 1: book about the final regular season game too? How that

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Speaker 1: gave them confidence to the Super Bowl?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of it. And then you know I

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Speaker 2: wrote about the phone call that John Madden gave it.

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Speaker 2: My buddy actually texted me the other day, like I

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Speaker 2: loved that story about the John madnett. I mean that's

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Speaker 2: been out there for years. But he called and left

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Speaker 2: the voicemail for Coffin and callin like left. You know,

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Speaker 2: he had that voicemail for a long time. I remember that.

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Speaker 2: Do you want the inside story of that? What's that?

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Speaker 1: So? I got a call about maybe a week after

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl, you'll smoke Coach Coughlin has a voicemail,

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Speaker 1: but he can't get it off his phone and help

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Speaker 1: us get all. So I literally recorded off his phone,

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Speaker 1: created the MP three file, and I'm the one that

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Speaker 1: got off.

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Speaker 2: That's why. That's why everybody, that is why exactly, it's

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Speaker 2: all by fault. There you go, there you go. That's

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Speaker 2: pretty cool. You know the old phone. That's great. It

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Speaker 2: was an unbelievablevoicemail. I think I still have on my computer.

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Speaker 2: That's pretty awesome. Yeah, and so that's obviously a great story.

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Speaker 2: And then yeah, to get for the book, I got

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Speaker 2: the off the the seven and eleven offensive line in

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Speaker 2: retrospect too, that's the amazing part of those teams that

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Speaker 2: stands out, that offensive line. For an offensive line to

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Speaker 2: stay together for that many years.

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Speaker 1: The same group in a seven and eleven except for

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Speaker 1: one guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and even then, like they were together for the

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Speaker 2: most part before seven, correct, you know, like McKenzie can right,

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Speaker 2: But the rest of them like they were there you know,

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Speaker 2: six five four, like they also they all started coming there.

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Speaker 2: So for a group to be primarily together for like

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Speaker 2: six years as a whole correct essentially, is like that's

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Speaker 2: a crazy run. Like that just doesn't happen in Today's NFL.

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Speaker 2: And then I got them all on a zoom call together,

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Speaker 2: did you really? And I was so I was on

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Speaker 2: like a text chain with that group, like to set

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Speaker 2: it up for a while. Yeah, it got wild, and

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Speaker 2: you know, they just started ragging on each other like

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Speaker 2: it was old times, like some of like some of

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Speaker 2: the jokes they're making about each other, Like they definitely

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Speaker 2: could not make it on this show, by the way,

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Speaker 2: I can imagine. It is not fit for I really anything.

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Speaker 1: I had been in the room with those guys at

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Speaker 1: the same time before, and it gets it gets graphic.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was crazy. But then to have the conversation

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Speaker 2: with them and be able to like chop it up

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Speaker 2: with all of them, it was that was actually really cool.

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Speaker 2: And the idea originally was to have a separate chapter

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Speaker 2: for them all together, because I thought that stood out

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Speaker 2: to me how unbelievably cool it was for that group

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Speaker 2: to be able to stay together for that long and

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Speaker 2: how big and instrumental obviously they were to those two

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Speaker 2: those two Super Bowl teams and that era in general,

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Speaker 2: and they were gonna have their own chapter. But then

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Speaker 2: as it started playing out, they're like, it's really a

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Speaker 2: chapter for each super Bowl team like each super Like.

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Speaker 2: It didn't make sense to them have like here's each

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Speaker 2: super Bowl year and then here's something on the offensive line,

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Speaker 2: so that we kind of merged it into the two chapters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was two guys. It was Cybert and O'Hara.

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Speaker 1: They did not make it a twenty eleven. The rest

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Speaker 1: of the three guys did.

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Speaker 2: Twenty eleven. I think people kind of Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that by the way he played out

386
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Speaker 1: that entire contract without the Majesty's contract once. I don't

387
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Speaker 1: know if that's ever can happen again, but that many

388
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Speaker 1: years is unbelievable. Didn't change the contract, I know the

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Speaker 1: whole time.

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Speaker 2: I know someone else who I think did too, Who's

391
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Speaker 2: that Andro Roll? Because I remember thinking that's ridiculous. It

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Speaker 2: was a shorter contract though. Shorter contract though okay, but yes,

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Speaker 2: but Role did do that that he actually played out

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Speaker 2: I think it was a full five years yeah contract,

395
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Speaker 2: which these days in that generation was unbelievable. And so

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Speaker 2: he was one of the guys that was actually there

397
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Speaker 2: here when I first came, and I think, yeah, he

398
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 2: was a great guy, unbelievable guy. If you want to

399
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Speaker 2: know how to manage two minutes of crunch time football.

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Speaker 2: I'm your man. But if you're wondering about a long

401
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,720
Speaker 2: term financial plan, you should talk to Citizens. Hey, I

402
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:20,880
Speaker 2: can also talk long care.

403
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Speaker 1: I'd like to learn about amuliuteae.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I knew I could help make sense of your

405
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Speaker 2: money with Citizens.

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Speaker 1: I think people lump eleven and seven into the same

407
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Speaker 1: kind of group, right, They're like, oh, you know, see,

408
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Speaker 1: those teams were very different. Yeah, I mean eleven was

409
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Speaker 1: very much more of a offensive driven team with Eli

410
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Speaker 1: and the receivers. Oh, seven was more of a defense,

411
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Speaker 1: run game type of team. But man, that eleven offense.

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Speaker 2: People sleep on the pirty second and run defense that year, right, correct.

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Speaker 1: Then they got at they got a little bit better

414
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Speaker 1: on the posts. Even their run game on offense got

415
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Speaker 1: turned on late in the year. But man, that was

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Speaker 1: a if you go through your Lave's career, eleven was

417
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Speaker 1: his best season. That was an MVP caliber season from Eli,

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Speaker 1: especially when you look at how we played the fourth

419
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Speaker 1: quarters of that year is unbelievable.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's one of the things in the book is

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Speaker 2: the whole Elite ELI Elite debate and that that was

422
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Speaker 2: that year and the fact that he went on and

423
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Speaker 2: had that year and then the NFC Championship game, which

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Speaker 2: I still I'll maintain, and John Maris said, a lot

425
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Speaker 2: of people say, like, that's the best game he ever played,

426
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Speaker 2: the NFC Championship game in San Francisco, when he's just

427
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Speaker 2: getting pummeled, he's coming up with clumps of grass in

428
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Speaker 2: his face mask.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I will still go sub zero green Bay seven,

430
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Speaker 1: That's what I will go with.

431
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Speaker 2: I mean, I off the top of my head, I

432
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Speaker 2: don't remember the number of quarterback hits he took. Now, granted,

433
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Speaker 2: just to be able to throw the ball Green Bay

434
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,159
Speaker 2: in that game he outduel Brett Farm Yeah, but just

435
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 2: to be able to throw the ball in general was

436
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:46,240
Speaker 2: pretty spectacular, I think.

437
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:46,760
Speaker 1: So.

438
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, him impactswa. They said they just kept running the

439
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,600
Speaker 2: same round. Oh yes, Harris. They abused out over and over,

440
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,760
Speaker 2: just like a comeback route in the middle, like in

441
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 2: the middle of the field. And then they said they

442
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 2: just ran it all day, all day, just kept running

443
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,840
Speaker 2: it over and over. But I just thought the pressure

444
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 2: that he was under, because if you think about it,

445
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,159
Speaker 2: that eleven San Francisco defense was awesome. The front that

446
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:09,720
Speaker 2: was the Navar bowman Patrick Willis, Alvin Smith, the Smith,

447
00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 2: the Smith. Yeah, that the pressure, I mean, the number

448
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 2: of hits that he took in that game was like

449
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 2: it was close to twenty, which it WHI was for

450
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 2: quarterback hits is an insane number. I mean, I think

451
00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:23,320
Speaker 2: in double digits is good.

452
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,360
Speaker 1: Both teams had so many three and outs in that game.

453
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: At one point, I think the Giants had six straight

454
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 1: three and outs in the second half of that game.

455
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,399
Speaker 1: But man, he peeled himself up off the turf so

456
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:34,320
Speaker 1: many times. And the thing about Eline that game, he

457
00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 1: might not have made a ton of plays that you know,

458
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:37,800
Speaker 1: score points and won the game, but he never made

459
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,080
Speaker 1: a player to lose the game. And the fact that

460
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 1: didn't and that was what made him so good in

461
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:43,440
Speaker 1: those two Super Bowl runs, Right, he never turned the

462
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,440
Speaker 1: ball over in those two Super Bowl runs.

463
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,399
Speaker 2: Which is amazing because that's like kind of different than

464
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 2: the correct ELI playoff. ELI was just like a different

465
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 2: almost like a different player than regular season United. So

466
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 2: it's that's strange. But yeah, so there's a lot of

467
00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,920
Speaker 2: ELI stuff in that chapter in particular, because that was

468
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,440
Speaker 2: that was such a that was that that run was

469
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,320
Speaker 2: on him more so than the seven for sure. I'm

470
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,520
Speaker 2: talking about the whole season. Yeah, because like you said,

471
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 2: that's when Eli was I think at his height and

472
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 2: then the whole Eli elite. So that's the interesting part.

473
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,879
Speaker 2: The first run seven it was Eli having to prove himself.

474
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 2: The second time it was Eli having to prove himself

475
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,120
Speaker 2: again that he's elite like that. The first one wasn't

476
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 2: It wasn't a fluke, which is funny that like it

477
00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:29,920
Speaker 2: came back that way, and the same with Coffin again.

478
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,840
Speaker 2: You're gonna get fired in seven. Oh yeah, by the way,

479
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,359
Speaker 2: you get fired in eleven. And then they both obviously

480
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,680
Speaker 2: come through, and that in that way is like the

481
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 2: ultimate you know, double middle finger Eli like on and

482
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:42,000
Speaker 2: you know the Manning cast like that's that that's the

483
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 2: football version of it. To be able to do that

484
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 2: and that spot is crazy. Anything was you want fancy

485
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 2: all about the book? No, just that it's a fun

486
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 2: quick read.

487
00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,880
Speaker 1: It's it's a perfect gift for the holidays around Paga. Yeah.

488
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,920
Speaker 1: I think it's around to Hya two seven there, yeah,

489
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 1: there you go.

490
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 2: I mean we go by words, you know, I had

491
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 2: to submit X number of words? That's how many? How

492
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:06,880
Speaker 2: many words?

493
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 1: Is it?

494
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 2: I don't remember that A long time ago submitted it

495
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 2: like a year ago. It's one of those things when

496
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 2: you submit it, you're like, man, this is off my chest.

497
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,800
Speaker 2: I remember actually, Uh, we were in Germany when we

498
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 2: had when I had to finish it. Really yeah it

499
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 2: can you just give me a few more days when

500
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 2: we're going to Germany, So hold up one more time,

501
00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,920
Speaker 2: defans can say it. The franchise, uh New York Giants

502
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 2: securitated History of Big Blue. So it's available on Amazon,

503
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,960
Speaker 2: Barnes and Noble, everywhere you get everywhere you get your books.

504
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:38,159
Speaker 2: I can test reach out to me.

505
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: I got a bunch of my car I got a

506
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: test it as a fun read.

507
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,199
Speaker 2: You guys should go check that out.

508
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 1: All right, before we say go by Jordan real quick,

509
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 1: a lot of four eaves left for the Giants.

510
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 2: Let's start here.

511
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 1: What's on your checklist for what you want to see

512
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,679
Speaker 1: in the final four games of the Giants here as

513
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:52,840
Speaker 1: as they run down their season after the by.

514
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 2: I think you want to see Jackson Dark continue to play,

515
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,920
Speaker 2: continue to get better. Uh, maybe make slight adjustments. You know.

516
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,920
Speaker 2: The hits is obviously a big thing. It's something he's

517
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:04,920
Speaker 2: going to have to learn. He's been a little defiant

518
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 2: on it. But let's be honest, the most important thing

519
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 2: for Jackson Dart going forward is going to be staying healthy.

520
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 2: So a big part of that is going to be

521
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,719
Speaker 2: to find a way to find the right balance. It's

522
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 2: not about we don't want you to be aggressive, we

523
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 2: want to stop your aggressiveness. No, it's like, let's find

524
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 2: a balance that works for you, right. I think every

525
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 2: young quarterback goes through it, but you know, he has

526
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 2: to be open to it as well. So watching him

527
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 2: play Abdual Carter coming down the stretch here, you know,

528
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 2: it's been a rough go for him late this season,

529
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 2: so how he finishes the season is going to be

530
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: important to him, and just sort of, you know, maybe

531
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 2: getting the defense in order a little bit. It's been

532
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:49,639
Speaker 2: the real struggle for that defense this year. So just

533
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 2: trying to get guys playing better on the defensive side.

534
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 2: So you know, Okay, you know what, maybe next year

535
00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 2: we do have something we can build around here with

536
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: these guys.

537
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: And we are going to be looking at a head

538
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,159
Speaker 1: coaching search after the even if decide they want my

539
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: Kafka back. By league rules, you have to have a coach,

540
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 1: you have to do all them meet them rudey rawan

541
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,479
Speaker 1: and all and all that sorts of stuff. Well, how

542
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: do you think the giants are going to prioritize when

543
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: they go through this head coaching starch? What do you

544
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,239
Speaker 1: think is going to be most important to them as

545
00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:15,640
Speaker 1: they try to find their next head coach.

546
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. When you talk to people around only people who

547
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: essentially you know, whether they're coaches out there who are

548
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,959
Speaker 2: looking at the job or you know, coaching agents who

549
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 2: are talking to the giants, the common theme that you hear, right,

550
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 2: is that they want a leader in here, a voice

551
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,040
Speaker 2: that can command the room, somebody who I mean, I

552
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: don't think that, and I don't think this is speaking

553
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 2: out of turn. I think most people would agree this

554
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 2: is probably true. Previous head coaching experience, well, probably not mandatory,

555
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 2: certainly wouldn't hurt in a situation like this like this

556
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: is I think, you know, like there may be a

557
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: young coordinator out there that blows them away. But at

558
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,200
Speaker 2: the same time, there is a benefit to having been

559
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 2: through it before. Like this is a tough job. You're

560
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 2: in the New York market. It comes with a little

561
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 2: more pressure, there's people over There's a lot that comes

562
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 2: with this job, Like.

563
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: Whenever you're hiring somebody to do a job, if they've

564
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 1: done that exact job before and they've done it successfully,

565
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: that makes you feel better than hiring somebody that's never

566
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: done that actual job before.

567
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 2: Especially in this market. Like what the last two Giants,

568
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: So three of the last four coaches, right, because you

569
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: got mcado Shermer had experience, but not great experience. Yeah,

570
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 2: and it was in Cleveland and he had trouble handling

571
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 2: all this stuff, which is why it didn't make sense.

572
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: But McAdoo was a first time coach, Judge was a

573
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 2: first time coach. Dable was the first time coach. Like,

574
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,600
Speaker 2: you can get overwhelmed, I think with everything that comes

575
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 2: with this job, with this organization, with the expectations here.

576
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think you hear that. And it's got

577
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 2: to be the lack of accountability has been a factor

578
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: here over the past few years, So you hear you know,

579
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: when I speak to players in the locker room, that's

580
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 2: the one thing they say to me, probably more than anything,

581
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 2: like we need to coach, just got to hold people

582
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 2: around here accountable. And I think you're seeing that right

583
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 2: now at Kafka. Uh. You know, he's trying to do that.

584
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: It's a very short period of time, sure, and I

585
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 2: think that's why we saw Abdul Carter bench now for two.

586
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,440
Speaker 2: Like there needs to be a level, a higher level

587
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 2: of accountability, and that's what players say. So a coach

588
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: who I think that's one of his strong suits, maybe

589
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: a stronger personaliti head coach probably will play in affair.

590
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 2: But they're also going to do a wide search. And

591
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 2: I don't think and for everyone you talked around the league,

592
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like they're just like, oh, you know what,

593
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 2: this is the only kind of coach that they'll look into. No,

594
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 2: they're going to look at a bunch of different coaches.

595
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 2: I just think you have those qualities that certainly I

596
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 2: think play to your advantage.

597
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: Right, And depending on who the head coach would be,

598
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: I imagine the first set or a question in Igbreu

599
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: be well, who's going to be the guy that you're

600
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: bringing in to bring Jackson Dart along?

601
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 2: Right?

602
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 1: Right?

603
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: Of course? Of course, this is when you say, what's

604
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:49,919
Speaker 2: the selling point of this team? And that's like your

605
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 2: number one selling point in Jackson Dart.

606
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: And that's why Raybell bringing in Josh McDaniels in New

607
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: England was so essential because no one's probably going to

608
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 1: hire him a way to be a head coach at

609
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 1: this point, he's already failed at twice. So you have

610
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: a guy in there that you know is good at

611
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: the job that Rabel.

612
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 2: Brings with him. I mean that's the perfect scenario. That

613
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: is really the perfect scene really is because like he's, yeah,

614
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,439
Speaker 2: you're basically you have a high end, super high end

615
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 2: offensive coordinator that's not going to leave, not going to leave, right.

616
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 2: But that thing about how hard that that's that's pretty rare.

617
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 2: Here's my thing with that. Just get it. Just have

618
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: a good plan. If you have so much success that

619
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 2: the guy has correct take this, take that problem, Okay,

620
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 2: worry worry about that later on downline. I heard that's

621
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 2: something that you're gonna have to come in here and

622
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 2: have an idea of who your offensive coordinator is. What

623
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 2: happens if he goes blah blah blah, this and that

624
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 2: like that, that's something. Those are scenarios that have to

625
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:39,640
Speaker 2: be talking about. But still just get to that point,

626
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 2: you know, if that's if that's the point where you

627
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 2: get but they have so much success that people want

628
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 2: to hire your offensive coordinator, that means you had some

629
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: good years. So let's let's get to that point in

630
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 2: the meantime. But like I spoke to John Gruden, who

631
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,640
Speaker 2: loves Jackson Dart, and he was saying, how highly coveted

632
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 2: and desirable, Uh, this job is and the number one

633
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 2: And he said, first of all, it's the New York

634
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 2: Giants and Marquee franchise, but also.

635
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 1: Jackson Dark and every love Jackson Dark.

636
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he's competitive, he has all the things, yes,

637
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: and he's that dude who wants to be good good.

638
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 2: He wants to be great. I shouldn'ven say he wants

639
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,360
Speaker 2: to be good. He wants to be great, and he's

640
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: willing to put in the time. So I spoke to

641
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 2: somebody before the drafts and that's what they told me.

642
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 2: They're like, you know, he's probably his second round talent,

643
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: but by the time teams get through going over him,

644
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: they're gonna they're gonna.

645
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 1: Be like, no, No, this is the guy I want

646
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 1: to he at the process, the whole draft process, he hasted.

647
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 2: I want to invest in this guy and everything he has.

648
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: He's the kind of guy that coaches want to work

649
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 2: with one hundred percent, absolutely right, joining good stuff my man.

650
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Man.

651
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: Enjoy the rest of the year. Jordan went on from ESPN.

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Speaker 1: Check out the book The Franchise, The Curated History of

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00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: the New York Giants. I'm John Schmulck. That's Johnson, a

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Speaker 1: podcast part to by citizens, the Official Bank of the Giants,

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Speaker 1: and the Hacken, Sack and Murty Hell Podcast.

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Speaker 2: You keep getting better. We'll see you next time.

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Speaker 1: Everybody