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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 4: Let's move on to the new inflation numbers that were

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Speaker 4: released yesterday. We can go ahead and throw the Wall

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Speaker 4: Street Journals coverage of this up on the screen. I'm

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Speaker 4: just going to read from the lead of the article,

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Speaker 4: and if you're watching this, you can see some pretty

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Speaker 4: interesting charts on the screen that we'll go through as well.

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Speaker 4: But they say inflation picked up in June, a potential

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Speaker 4: sign that companies are starting to pass tariff costs onto consumers.

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Speaker 4: And there's actually debate about that very point though, the

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Speaker 4: fact that the Wall Street Journal started their lead with

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Speaker 4: it should tell you where people on the street are

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Speaker 4: going with their interpretations of the inflation index. With the

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Speaker 4: consumer price index, there was two point seven percent in

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Speaker 4: June from a year earlier, according to the Labor Department yesterday.

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Speaker 4: That was faster they say the maize increase of two

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Speaker 4: point four percent, and quote that was in line with

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Speaker 4: the expectations of economists surveyed by the Wall Street Journal.

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Speaker 4: Core inflation, which includes volatile food and energy prices, was

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Speaker 4: two point nine percent, also in line with forecast. Consumer

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Speaker 4: prices rose point three percent in June compared with May,

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Speaker 4: the largest monthly gain since January and a stepback for

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Speaker 4: White House officials. The Journal says, who have said in

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Speaker 4: recent weeks there isn't any meaningful inflation. But core prices

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Speaker 4: rose point two three percent, at the middle of the

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Speaker 4: range of monthly price increases over the previous years. So

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Speaker 4: select risers there were natural gas service, coffee, audio equipment, beef, slash, veal,

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Speaker 4: college textbooks, motor vehicle repair, electricity, daycare, preschool, hospital shelters,

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Speaker 4: hospital services and shelter and crystal. I heard actually a

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Speaker 4: lot of people looking at the energy numbers and saying

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Speaker 4: this is actually one of the reasons that the Big

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Speaker 4: Beautiful Bill. I saw people on the right interpreting these

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Speaker 4: numbers and saying, this is one of the reasons that

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Speaker 4: the Big Beautiful Bill, kind of gutting the move to

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Speaker 4: renewables is going to start bringing down prices that I

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Speaker 4: don't know where do you read illogical?

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Speaker 5: Illogical?

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Speaker 2: I mean, by having less energy, that's going to make

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Speaker 2: energy lesser. No, that doesn't, That doesn't track to me personally,

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Speaker 2: But we'll see how it all works out. I mean,

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Speaker 2: one thing that could make energy costs lower potentially is

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Speaker 2: if just people have less money to spend on stuff.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that could be what they're counting on in

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Speaker 2: terms of hoping that there isn't an increase a huge

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Speaker 2: increase in inflation. Is just maybe people be a little

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Speaker 2: poorer so they won't have as much money to spend

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Speaker 2: on goods. And there are some signs that that is

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Speaker 2: in fact the case. But what is troubling about these

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Speaker 2: numbers is that you're starting to see prices tick up

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Speaker 2: in specific areas that have been hit by tariffs. You know,

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Speaker 2: coffee being an example of one of those things that like, look,

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Speaker 2: we don't have the capacity to grow coffee in the

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Speaker 2: United States, coffee beans in the United States really outside

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Speaker 2: of Hawaii. So if you are putting let's say, for example,

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Speaker 2: massive tariffs on Brazil, you are likely to see an

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Speaker 2: increase in the cost of coffee. And there are other

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Speaker 2: examples of that as well. So you know, Saga has

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Speaker 2: talked about how the and I'm sure, I'm sure you

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Speaker 2: can back this up as well. The sense among Republicans

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Speaker 2: is like, well, you guys were wrong. We haven't seen

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Speaker 2: these huge increases in prices. The economic like sky hasn't fallen.

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Speaker 2: On the other hand, he has backed off of the

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Speaker 2: most massilist tariffs, which good, like it's good that he

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Speaker 2: tacoed on the most maximinoist tariffs, but also at some

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Speaker 2: point there is going to be a significant impact. You know,

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Speaker 2: the estimates are about seventy percent of the tariff price

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Speaker 2: gets passed on to consumers, and we're just sort of

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Speaker 2: at the beginning of that. One of the things that

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Speaker 2: has met gated the impacts is not only the fact

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Speaker 2: that he's backed off of some of the most maximal's positions,

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Speaker 2: even as he's now sort of walking back into more

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Speaker 2: maximal's positions, is that a lot of retailers in particular,

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Speaker 2: saw that some sort of tariff regime was coming. They

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Speaker 2: didn't know what it would be, and we still don't

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Speaker 2: know what it will be. They really stocked up on

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Speaker 2: inventory to try to mitigate the impact going in and

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Speaker 2: so that has I think also helped to soften the blow.

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Speaker 2: But that runway runs down at a certain point as well,

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Speaker 2: so I think, you know, this is an indication that

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Speaker 2: potential storm clouds are gathering. And like I said, especially

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Speaker 2: because of the specific categories that you see a price

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Speaker 2: increase in. One last interesting note is they mentioned here

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Speaker 2: one thing that was a surprise is car prices actually

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Speaker 2: went down. That is a category that you would think

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Speaker 2: would be impacted by terrifts because so much is crossing

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Speaker 2: the border between you know, the US and Canada, and

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Speaker 2: the US and Mexico, and you know in particular, but

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Speaker 2: other places too. And the theory is that because consumers

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Speaker 2: were concerned about auto prices and tariffs, there was people

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Speaker 2: bought cars early before the tariffs hit and now they've

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Speaker 2: already got their car, So there's been a slowing of

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Speaker 2: car purchasing, which has reduced the prices somewhat of cars.

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Speaker 2: So that's one of the interesting things. I only point

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Speaker 2: this out to say, like it can actually be very

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Speaker 2: hard to anticipate the way that consumer behavior and business

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Speaker 2: behavior and Trump behavior all clash to create whatever is

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Speaker 2: going to happen in our economy.

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Speaker 4: Talking to Republican members of Congress yesterday, I was asking

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Speaker 4: them why they're down in the congressional ballot. One of

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Speaker 4: the questions I was asking is, why do you think

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Speaker 4: you're down on the congressional ballot.

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Speaker 6: They're expecting.

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Speaker 4: Very positive economic ripple effects to hit the economy in

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Speaker 4: like three to four months, and that's their plan of

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Speaker 4: sort of ramping up to the midterms, that they'll have

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Speaker 4: people feeling really good about what's happening going to the

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Speaker 4: next three or four months because you have all of

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Speaker 4: those reinvestment incentives in the big beautiful bill, like write

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Speaker 4: offs and all of that for building and manufacturing. So

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Speaker 4: that is quite interesting because Crystal, we'll be able to

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Speaker 4: go back here in five months and look and see

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Speaker 4: their theory of the case playing out or not playing out,

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Speaker 4: Which is why I kind of want to skip ahead

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Speaker 4: here to be four. This is how actually I thought

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Speaker 4: it was interesting the RNC ran with this clip when

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Speaker 4: Fox Business was sort of digesting the new numbers.

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Speaker 6: We can roll here.

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Speaker 4: Look, you've got to look at this report as.

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Speaker 7: Another victory for President Trump, who has focused on rating

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Speaker 7: and inflation.

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Speaker 6: And that's what we're staying from this report again.

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Speaker 8: And so let's look a little bit here at the debate.

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Speaker 4: I want to put B five. This was a thread

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Speaker 4: from an economist that was interesting. Parker Ross posts about

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Speaker 4: that quote unquote no evidence of inflation from tariffs. If

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Speaker 4: you know where to look, it seems pretty clear that

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Speaker 4: inflationary pressures are building in the product categories most exposed

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Speaker 4: to tariffs. Case in point from today's June CPI report

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Speaker 4: household Furnishings and Supplies, which saw prices jump nearly one

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Speaker 4: percent month over month in June. This was the sharpest

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Speaker 4: monthly increased since the peak of the pandemic driven inflation

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Speaker 4: in early twenty two and goes down the list in

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Speaker 4: a very long and interesting thread. Justin Wolfers, on the

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Speaker 4: other hand, points out latest inflation numbers just dropped headline.

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Speaker 4: CPI rose point three percent in May and has now

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Speaker 4: risen two point seven percent. Course, CPI rose point two percent,

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Speaker 4: is running at two point nine percent and just says,

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Speaker 4: these numbers are pretty much in line with expectations.

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Speaker 6: What you saw.

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Speaker 4: I'll add that Maria Barromo was reacting to, is it

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Speaker 4: just like cut in right under the higher expectation, And

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Speaker 4: so Wolfer's goes on to say, quote, the absence of

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Speaker 4: bad news is good news. So Chrystal, there was a

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Speaker 4: significant disagreement among economists kind of across the spectrum about

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Speaker 4: what those numbers meant yesterday.

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Speaker 6: But I think probably the big thing for Republicans.

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Speaker 8: Right now is they can't be quite sure what's.

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Speaker 4: Going to play out in the next three to four

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Speaker 4: months like this, Yeah, it's the experiment is happening kind

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Speaker 4: of in real time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And then you still have this willie or won't

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Speaker 2: he over Trump potentially firing j. Powell over at the Fed,

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Speaker 2: and the pressure he continues to put on for him

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Speaker 2: to significantly radically cut interest rates in a way that

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Speaker 2: I mean, he certainly is not going to do that.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: There was some indication that because of this inflation report,

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Speaker 2: he was somewhat more open to somewhat of a rate cut.

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Speaker 2: But let's go ahead and play be to Trump talking

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Speaker 2: about all of this.

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Speaker 9: I told him he's doing a very bad job.

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Speaker 1: He's way late.

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Speaker 9: That's why I call him too late. Jerome Pallas too late.

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Speaker 9: He's way late. Interest rate should be coming down where

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Speaker 9: we have a very very successful country, we should have

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Speaker 9: the lowest interest rate in the world, and we don't.

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Speaker 9: Jerome Powell has done a terrible job, and frankly, I

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Speaker 9: don't think he could do a worse job.

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Speaker 6: He called everything wrong.

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Speaker 9: So they had a report come out the other day,

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Speaker 9: seventy one different economists and me, you know who is

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Speaker 9: right me? Did you know that I was right?

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Speaker 2: Incredible comment there, Me against every economist and you know

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Speaker 2: who's right me? That is some That is some confidence

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Speaker 2: right there, Emily, that is some confidence.

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Speaker 6: But I mean that the barn is love for economists.

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Speaker 5: So true.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm actually ideologically open to the idea that a

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Speaker 2: president should have more control over monetary policy and that,

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Speaker 2: you know, and over the Fed pick. But unlike you know,

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Speaker 2: unlike the uh Charlie Kirks of the world, I do

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Speaker 2: not trust Trump. So I'm not sure that this is

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Speaker 2: the guy that I really want to do that experiment

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Speaker 2: with at this point. But you know, all of that

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Speaker 2: being said, I do think it's true that there will

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Speaker 2: be a you know, certainly a market freak out if

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Speaker 2: he does fire Jerome Powell, and you know that'll be

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Speaker 2: challenging court and all that sort of thing. But I

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Speaker 2: think there will be, you know, there would be a

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Speaker 2: reaction to that. Whereas the stock market has been pretty

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Speaker 2: docile in the face of some pretty wild swings in

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Speaker 2: terms of economic policy, I think because number one, I

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Speaker 2: think retail has been impactful there and number two, I

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Speaker 2: think they're making the taco trade of like, yeah, this

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Speaker 2: will you know, this will pass. This too shall pass.

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Speaker 2: But you know, to speak to the tariff piece, which

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Speaker 2: is still wildly unsettled and we're getting continue to get

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Speaker 2: new news about every day. Kevin Hassett was asked about

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Speaker 2: the the floating of these Brazil tariffs, and you know,

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Speaker 2: had a very hard time defending the concept of them

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Speaker 2: because we actually don't we have a trade surplus with Brazil.

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Speaker 2: So even the thing that Trump normally complains about, like

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Speaker 2: you can't even point to that. And then Trump himself

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Speaker 2: directly attributed these extraordinary potential Brazil tariffs to his dissatisfaction with,

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Speaker 2: you know, what the Brazilian judicial system is doing with

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Speaker 2: regard to his ally Bolscenaro. So let's go ahead and

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Speaker 2: take a listen to Kevin Hassett B three trying to

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Speaker 2: defend us.

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Speaker 10: Why are we putting a punishing fifty percent tariff on Brazil?

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Speaker 11: Well, bottom line is the President has been very frustrated

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Speaker 11: with negotiations with Brazil and also with the actions of

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Speaker 11: Brazil in the end, though you know, we're trying to

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Speaker 11: put America first. I think that a lot of people

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Speaker 11: when I'm talking to negotiators from out the countries, at

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Speaker 11: some point they'll say, what did we do wrong? And

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Speaker 11: what I'm trying to get. The message we're all tried

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Speaker 11: to get across is this is about America getting yourself

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Speaker 11: ready for the Golden Age by getting our house at order.

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Speaker 11: Normally it's not necessarily about a specific country, but with

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Speaker 11: Brazil it is. Their actions have shocked the president times

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Speaker 11: and he's made them clear about that.

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Speaker 10: But I don't understand how you're saying it's about America,

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Speaker 10: because the President has made it quite clear that what

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Speaker 10: he's upset about is how the Brazilian Supreme Court has

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Speaker 10: handled the criminal case involving former President Balsonario.

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Speaker 11: What I've been saying with most countries was that it's

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Speaker 11: really about us getting the tariffs in order. And I

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Speaker 11: think that this tariff for Brazil is a lot higher

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Speaker 11: because of the President's frustration with Balsonaro.

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Speaker 10: But on what authority does the president have to impost

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Speaker 10: tariffs on a country because he doesn't like what that

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Speaker 10: country's judicial system is handling a specific case?

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Speaker 11: Well, I mean, how is that a national defense emergency?

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Speaker 11: Or if he thinks of a national security threat that

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Speaker 11: he has the authority under a epuit.

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Speaker 10: So how is it a national security threat? You know

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Speaker 10: how Brazil is handling a criminal case against this former president.

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Speaker 11: Well, that's not the only thing. That's not the only thing.

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Speaker 10: I mean, So what is it? I mean, I've asked

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Speaker 10: what it is. I mean, it seems like that that's

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Speaker 10: what President Trump's talking about it right.

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Speaker 11: Well, the bottom line is that what we're doing, absolutely

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Speaker 11: collectively across every country is we're on shoring production in

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Speaker 11: the US to reduce the national emergency that is that

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Speaker 11: we have a massive trade deficit that's putting it at risk.

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Speaker 11: Should we need a production in the US because of

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Speaker 11: a national security crisis, and this is part of an

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Speaker 11: overall strategy do that.

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Speaker 10: But again, as We've just established we have a trade

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Speaker 10: surplus with Brazil, not a deficit, and we've had a

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Speaker 10: surplus with Brazil for eighteen years.

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Speaker 2: We're meant to believe that it's a national security emergency.

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Speaker 2: How Brazil handles their judicial system apparently.

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Speaker 6: I mean, this is.

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Speaker 4: Digging into these numbers because of the way in which

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Speaker 4: there are so many of these situations where the deal

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Speaker 4: is nebulous. Nobody knows what's actually going on. I don't

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Speaker 4: even know what to make of the numbers, because I

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Speaker 4: don't think the people who are trying to understand them,

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Speaker 4: let alone even the countries themselves and the like what's

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Speaker 4: being priced into exports and imports right now. I mean,

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Speaker 4: none of it is coherent because the policy is coherent

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Speaker 4: and is incoherent and unsettled. The only thing coherent about

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Speaker 4: the policy is that it's uncertain right now because they're

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Speaker 4: in the middle of negotiation, and that's part of the strategy, obviously,

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Speaker 4: and we can disagree with the strategy, but that's definitely

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Speaker 4: part of it. Trump thinks that it's part of what

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Speaker 4: gives him leverage, and so I just think nobody knows,

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Speaker 4: you know, the new August deadline was supposed to be

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Speaker 4: like July ninth, and now it's August, and now there's

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Speaker 4: talk of fifty percent in Brazil, one hundred percent. It's

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Speaker 4: just right now, so completely unsettled and uncertain that where

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Speaker 4: we are a couple of months from now. That's why

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Speaker 4: putting all of the eggs in the big beautiful bill basket.

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Speaker 6: It's like, Congress, you can do that.

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Speaker 4: We don't know what Donald Trump is going to do,

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Speaker 4: like truly don't know what Donald Trump is going to do,

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Speaker 4: So it's just all right now a hell of a

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Speaker 4: hell of a gamble.

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Speaker 2: Let's go ahead and move on to another core aspect

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Speaker 2: of the real economy, which is home ownership. I mean, basically,

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Speaker 2: the story of our economy over decades is that consumer

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Speaker 2: goods have gotten cheaper, so it's easier to afford you know, TV,

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Speaker 2: a lot of clothes, those sorts of the visible trappings

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Speaker 2: of a middle class life, but the sort of core

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Speaker 2: bedrock of that life has become wildly more expensive, with

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Speaker 2: home ownership being increasingly out of reach for most young people.

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Speaker 2: So this is such a political lightning rod for understandable reasons.

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Speaker 2: So we can talk more about that in a moment.

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Speaker 2: But it's something that Tucker Carlson actually kind of interestingly

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Speaker 2: picked up on at that TPUSA conference. Let's go ahead

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Speaker 2: and take a listen to a little bit of what

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Speaker 2: he had to say.

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Speaker 12: The basic economics really matter, and they matter because not

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Speaker 12: that it's bad that rich people are getting richer, it's

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Speaker 12: bad that everyone else is getting poorer. And it's especially

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Speaker 12: bad the young people can't afford home. So let me

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Speaker 12: just put a very precise point on this. If you

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Speaker 12: want a measure of how your economy is doing, I

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Speaker 12: personally favor eliminating GDP as a measure. I don't even

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Speaker 12: know what that is. It's clearly not relevant the total

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Speaker 12: economic activity. Oh no, No, My measure is really simple.

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Speaker 12: I got a bunch of kids. Can they afford houses

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Speaker 12: with full time jobs at like twenty seven twenty eight?

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Speaker 1: And the answer is no way. And the answer is that.

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Speaker 12: Thirty five year olds with really good jobs can't afford

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Speaker 12: a house unless they stretch and go deep into debt.

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Speaker 12: And I just think that's a total disaster. That's a

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Speaker 12: complete disaster.

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Speaker 9: Why.

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Speaker 1: Two reasons.

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Speaker 12: One, if people don't own things, they don't feel ownership

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Speaker 12: of the country they're in, and the country gets super

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Speaker 12: volatile because people feel like they've got nothing to lose.

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Speaker 12: It's really hard to have a family without a house.

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Speaker 1: It is.

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Speaker 12: It's like super fun to live in an apartment. If

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Speaker 12: you know there's like a bar downstairs, you're in a

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Speaker 12: cool neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: I'm in the East Village. It's so cool. Try to

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Speaker 1: have three kids.

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Speaker 12: You're not gonna have three kids there. You can't. Nobody

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Speaker 12: wants to raise their kids in that neighborhood. Nobody wants

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Speaker 12: raise their kids in an apartment. People do it because

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Speaker 12: they have to. Nobody wants to. People want a little house,

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Speaker 12: not some mcmahonsions, a little normal house. That is the

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Speaker 12: actual American dream, and that is what is totally unattainable

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Speaker 12: for young people. And so the only young people in

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Speaker 12: general that you will ever meet who have houses are

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Speaker 12: young people whose parents help them, and God bless their parents.

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Speaker 12: That's a perfectly great thing to do for your kids.

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Speaker 12: But most people's parents can't afford to do that because

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Speaker 12: already in debt from their pointless college degree. So that

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Speaker 12: is a national emergency. Normal people with normal jobs no

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Speaker 12: longer believe they can win in this system, and that

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Speaker 12: all the money is going to the worst people, and

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Speaker 12: no one even stops to ask what the hell is

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Speaker 12: going on? How did Bill Ackman get so rich? And

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Speaker 12: I'm not saying even that it should be illegal. What

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Speaker 12: I'm saying is that our leadership class should say something

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Speaker 12: about it and should assign a moral value to it.

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Speaker 12: And if you're getting rich by loaning money to people

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Speaker 12: at incredibly high interest rates, that's something you're gonna have

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Speaker 12: to talk.

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Speaker 1: To God about.

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Speaker 12: That is not good, that is not virtuous, that's disgusting.

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Speaker 1: And the fact that nobody feels free to say that.

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Speaker 12: Nobody feels like you can just say, like thirty percent

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Speaker 12: on a credit card, why is anybody paying a credit

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Speaker 12: card bill?

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Speaker 2: This sparked Elli at least one you know, multi uh

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Speaker 2: multi page Bill Ackman essay on Twitter in response to this,

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Speaker 2: by the way, which you know nobody needs to read.

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Speaker 5: But nobody in any case for it.

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Speaker 6: Nobody is saying for it. They're busy trying to afford

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Speaker 6: a fucking house.

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Speaker 2: These boomers and their lengthy threats, including Trump at this point,

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Speaker 2: is very guilty of this. Like his posting ability has

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Speaker 2: fallen off hard, and you know, he's still got some

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Speaker 2: of the like potential in there with the like boys

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Speaker 2: and in some cases my goals. But then it just

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Speaker 2: goes on for way too goddamn long in any case.

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Speaker 4: Which lands the plane though with thank you for your

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Speaker 4: attention to this matter, which.

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Speaker 2: Is true, true, wraps it up in that though that

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Speaker 2: is true. You know, I find myself in this situation

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Speaker 2: oftentimes on this show with Douck or Carlson, whenever you're

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Speaker 2: talking about the like quote unquote populist right, which is

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Speaker 2: oftentimes we're in agreement when you're identifying the problem like

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Speaker 2: extraordinary inequality people unable to afford houses. Yes, where it

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Speaker 2: gets very dicey for me is when you start to

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Speaker 2: hear about the solutions, and you know, I Tucker doesn't

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Speaker 2: go into solutions here, which in and of itself I

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Speaker 2: think is notable. He says we shouldn't ban billionaires, which

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Speaker 2: I think we should ban billionaires. But in any case,

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Speaker 2: you know, for the JD Vances, and Tucker's probably in

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Speaker 2: line with this, the answer is like, that's why we

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Speaker 2: need to lock all the immigrants in Seacott and Alligator Alcatraz.

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Speaker 2: So you know, that's for my fellow lefties out there

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Speaker 2: who are hearing this and are like, yes, I like,

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Speaker 2: I agree that this is a problem. Just know that

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Speaker 2: it's also important to know what the proposed solution is

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Speaker 2: because you know, at least for me, I am not

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Speaker 2: going to be anywhere close to on board with that.

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Speaker 2: What that solution is likely to look.

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Speaker 4: Like one of the things that jumped out to me,

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Speaker 4: and when Tucker was talking, that clip went massively viral. Also,

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Speaker 4: another clip went viral of him saying, you know, I

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Speaker 4: agree with what Republicans aren't doing on like women's sports

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Speaker 4: and and trans issues and all of that, but it

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Speaker 4: feels like a quote appetizer, is what he said. And

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Speaker 4: he was like, at some point, you have to deal

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Speaker 4: with the structure of like making the country better. And

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Speaker 4: I completely agree with that is super super important. It

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Speaker 4: made me think of the Josh Hawley Bernie Sanders joint

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Speaker 4: effort to cap credit card interest rates, because when Tucker said,

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Speaker 4: you have to answer to God basically for lending people

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Speaker 4: money at these rates that you know for many many people,

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Speaker 4: It's sort of how Sager was describing online gambling in

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Speaker 4: his conversation with Tucker Carlson last week as well. It's

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Speaker 4: just like you know what you're doing, You know that

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Speaker 4: this is wrecking people. You know that this is not

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Speaker 4: fair or just, and you are profiting off of it.

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Speaker 4: And there's nothing Christian about the way some of these

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Speaker 4: major banks and credit card companies are operating. So on

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Speaker 4: the one hand, I think actually even identifying the problem

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Speaker 4: is kind of a helpful way to even get Republicans

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Speaker 4: talking about solutions. You know, like if there is no

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Speaker 4: discussion of the problem, then there's no discussion of potential solutions,

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Speaker 4: and there's no debate about whether this idea that Bernie

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Speaker 4: Sanders has, for example, might be one that you sort

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Speaker 4: of evangelical Christian like Josh Holly, who is interested in

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Speaker 4: restructuring the economy.

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Speaker 6: Would be on board with.

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Speaker 4: And I bet you Tucker Carlson would get behind that

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Speaker 4: bill too, And I think a whole lot of people

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Speaker 4: would get behind that bill because what's been happening is

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Speaker 4: just completely insane. And so there is I think room

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Speaker 4: you and I and Soger and Ryan don't agree on

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Speaker 4: a lot of solutions. But sometimes it's like the people

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Speaker 4: here in DC have no idea. What like if you

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Speaker 4: showed them this chart, let's put C two on the screen.

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Speaker 4: If you showed a random member of Congress's chart. This

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Speaker 4: is the estimated number of for time home buyer since

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety five. More Perfect Union put it out, tracks

439
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 4: with the numbers from the National Association of Realtors that

440
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 4: are in the Guardian article.

441
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 8: This is insane, This is tragic.

442
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 4: This is just completely ridiculous policy failure it has.

443
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,040
Speaker 6: This number is absolutely cratering.

444
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 4: The Guardian also quoted an analysis from John Byrne's research

445
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 4: that found buying an entry level home now costs twice

446
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:30,600
Speaker 4: as much as renting an apartment for the first time

447
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 4: since two thousand and six, since George W. Bush was president,

448
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 4: twice as much. Another thing that was quoted in this article.

449
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 4: That is just the numbers are unreal. They say that.

450
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:50,000
Speaker 10: Yeah.

451
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 6: Here it is.

452
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 4: The medium price of a single family home hit record

453
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 4: highs in twenty twenty four and has only continued going up.

454
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 4: In May, the medium price was four hundred and twenty

455
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 4: seven thousand, eight hundred dollars, which was up from three

456
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty seven thousand, one hundred dollars in twenty

457
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:09,680
Speaker 4: twenty one when prices first started to climb.

458
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,159
Speaker 6: And there's another what was the other one? It was

459
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 6: the numbers here are oh, get here it does.

460
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 4: A family would need to earn one hundred and twenty

461
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 4: six thousand dollars seven hundred, one hundred twenty seven thousand

462
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,679
Speaker 4: dollars a year to afford monthly payments on an average

463
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 4: home purchase in twenty twenty four, according to Harvard. In

464
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 4: twenty twenty one, that number was seventy nine thousand.

465
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 1: Dollars a year.

466
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 5: Holy moly.

467
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: Wow.

468
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 4: And I honestly think, Chrystal, if you showed these numbers

469
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:38,359
Speaker 4: of people in Congress, you showed a chart to your

470
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 4: average member of Congress, they would be shocked by it.

471
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 6: And the numbers are shocking just because they're so sad.

472
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 4: But to most people, especially just like my age, who

473
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 4: are like right in the middle of this, like early

474
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 4: mid thirties, late twenties people around, they're like, yeah, of course,

475
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:55,960
Speaker 4: like we know this, We're living it. Everyone we know

476
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 4: is living it.

477
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

478
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 2: And I think I saw the average age of your

479
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 2: first time home buyer. I was, what thirty eight years old? Yeah,

480
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 2: thirty eight, so almost forty before you can even trump.

481
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,840
Speaker 2: I mean that's crazy. And it's a crisis, Like it

482
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,919
Speaker 2: is a genuine existential crisis for some of the reasons

483
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 2: that Tucker outlines there, and you know, that sense of

484
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,919
Speaker 2: like ownership and society, but also because this is just

485
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 2: the way our economy is structured, Like this is the

486
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: way that you build some sword of wealth and stability

487
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 2: for yourself and establish yourself in a way where you

488
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: can have a family and have kids, if that's the

489
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 2: thing you aspire to, and it is increasingly completely out

490
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 2: of reach. I mean, gen z is basically forget about it.

491
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 2: We're never going to be able to accomplish that. And

492
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: so you know, the reason why I sound the alarm

493
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 2: that I did previously is because I think I would

494
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 2: have I think in a you know, a few years

495
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: ago or in the early days of the Trump administration,

496
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: I would have agreed with your assessment that it's like

497
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 2: just the fact of raising these issues is inherently a positive.

498
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: And I think what Trump does very effectively actually is

499
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 2: oftentimes pinpoint things that are genuine pain points for people,

500
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: right and speak to that anxiety and speak to that problem.

501
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 2: But if you have only one side that really is

502
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 2: telling a story about that, and it ends up leading

503
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 2: you into, you know, a situation that I find to

504
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: be aborn and unacceptable. With you know, nationalizing Federal Guard

505
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,600
Speaker 2: and calling in marines to you know, do these militarized

506
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 2: immigration raids and terrorized communities and that's your only solution

507
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: to the you know, the housing crisis. I think it

508
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 2: opens up a dangerous potential pathway if there is no

509
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 2: corresponding rival political project on the other side. And so,

510
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: you know, that's why I think it's really heartening to

511
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 2: see the way that Zoran has been able to succeed

512
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: against the odds and offering. You know, it's just New

513
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 2: York City mayoral race. You should't say just but it's

514
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 2: New York City mayoral race. We're not talking about the country.

515
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: But he really did demonstrate how if you speak to

516
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 2: these issues and you have agenda that has the possibility

517
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: of even delivering in like a small ball kind of

518
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 2: a way, there is a massive, huge response to it. So,

519
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: you know, that's where Democrats have crashed in the rocks

520
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 2: time and time again, is they try to gloss over

521
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: these problems. They try to pretend like they don't exist.

522
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 2: They try to pretend like things are actually going really

523
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 2: fine and well and all is well and good. They

524
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 2: don't have a story about that makes sense to people

525
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 2: about how we got to this place where you can't

526
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 2: ever even dream of affording a home and you feel

527
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 2: no stake in society and society sort of unraveling around you.

528
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 2: They don't have a compelling story to offer, they don't

529
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 2: have any villains in that story, and you are not

530
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,720
Speaker 2: going to defeat what, in my view, is a fascist

531
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 2: movement on the right if you don't have an alternative

532
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: political project that responds to the concerns that are being

533
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: raised by talker there in that clip.

534
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 4: Well, I think the same thing of the right, and

535
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:55,120
Speaker 4: I think this was one of the really just again,

536
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,199
Speaker 4: I'll say the word tragic. I think it's tragic that

537
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 4: the right went with repeal and replace. Repeal and replace

538
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 4: repea own a place for a decade, and they didn't

539
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 4: have a humane answer, which is why it didn't happen.

540
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 4: They never came up with a plausible, doable, humane healthcare

541
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 4: solution that actually everyone was comfortable implementing, which is why

542
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 4: it never ended up happening. And people still live in

543
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,680
Speaker 4: abject precarity and fear and uncertainty in ways that makes

544
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:31,359
Speaker 4: family life difficult, in ways that just is deeply unjust.

545
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 4: And because Republicans exploited politically the issue for so long

546
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 4: and never actually were able to land on a solution.

547
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 6: Right, like they talked about it.

548
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 4: They were like Obamacare did spike premiums for some people,

549
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 4: they did lose their doctor, all of that because they

550
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 4: were exploiting that and you know, kicking around the political

551
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 4: football they got they made hay out of it for

552
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 4: a long time, and a lot of people got elected,

553
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 4: a lot of consultants got rich off over people replace

554
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 4: and then they never came out. They never landed. And

555
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 4: it's not because it's an easy thing to do. It's

556
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 4: not because it's like I agree, like it's hard. That's

557
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 4: of course, this is a really difficult, like complicated policy question.

558
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,880
Speaker 4: But they never came up with any consensus. And part

559
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 4: of that is because of special interest. Of course part

560
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 4: of that is because of special interest. But it's going

561
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 4: to be the same thing again. And you know if

562
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 4: you never come up if you talk about how prices

563
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 4: are too high, nobody can afford a house, college is

564
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 4: too expensive, all of that, you never come up with

565
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 4: a solution. You are just opening up the lane for

566
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,560
Speaker 4: a demagogue. I mean, it's the same thing like.

567
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 6: Over and over again.

568
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 4: People are getting desperate and that's really scary, and we

569
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,360
Speaker 4: can't We're in no position to tell people they're wrong

570
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 4: for being desperate.

571
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 6: Their right to be desperate.

572
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 4: It's not wrong right now to feel desperate, because that's

573
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 4: where the economy is. The Guardian points out one of

574
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 4: the problems that people should be paying very close attention

575
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 4: to when home ownership, first time homeowner ownership is in

576
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 4: your late thirties, is people will be retiring later because

577
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 4: they have thirty year mortgages and people's equity gets tied up.

578
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 4: And that's the reason that the American dream is. The

579
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 4: American dream is that owning a house is supposed to

580
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 4: be like your nest egg. That's supposed to be bring

581
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 4: like stability, and Tucker cross The points out that having

582
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 4: he says it this way, he says, like having a lawn,

583
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:27,080
Speaker 4: it's you invest in your community, your immediate physical surroundings

584
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:33,719
Speaker 4: differently when you have a lawn. High Salem Salem is happy,

585
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 4: Crystal to have a house of Roman and not an apartment.

586
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: I guess, so this sale sale would like to searity

587
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: of the economy. Yeah, Salem would like to not be

588
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 2: in the house so much. He's constantly trying to escape. Actually,

589
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 2: in truth, he's a he's a wild boy.

590
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 4: He loves a lawn. He loves a lawn, just like Tucker,

591
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 4: and so Dan Osborne. So I was gonna say, is

592
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 4: this is a long winding tangrent. But Dan Osborne posted

593
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 4: part of Tucker's comments at the Turning Point summit, and

594
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 4: I got tweaked a little bit by a.

595
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 6: Friend of mine on the right.

596
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 4: It was like, you Dems want to retake the Senate

597
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 4: and do all kinds of crazy stuff.

598
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 6: And blah blah blah.

599
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 4: I was like, to be honest with you, we will

600
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 4: all be better off even if you're if you're a Republican,

601
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 4: which I don't consider myself a Republican, Like, there's nothing

602
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 4: worse than either political party in my take, but and

603
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 4: especially if you're conservative, like the Republican Party is especially

604
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 4: disgusting and disappointing. But if you are a Republican, we

605
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 4: are all better off with a strong Democratic Party those

606
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 4: like it is. And I think actually the same thing

607
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 4: is true vice versa, where people feel like they're actually

608
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 4: represented by the people in Congress and people running for

609
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 4: president and don't have to keep settling for like Joe Biden,

610
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,479
Speaker 4: Kamala Harris, and Hillary Clinton because everyone or like some

611
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:55,720
Speaker 4: of these members.

612
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 8: Of Congress, like I mean, just insane.

613
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 4: And Dan Osborne is absolutely right to, I think, echo

614
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 4: those sentiments, but hopefully there hopefully solutions follow. I think

615
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: that's just where everyone, both of us included, are deeply pessimistic.

616
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, that's exactly right.

617
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 2: And I mean Dan Osborne is a particularly hopeful example

618
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 2: because he introduces additional competition to a state that otherwise

619
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 2: isn't competitive, and so you know, that's what makes him

620
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 2: really interesting and creates a possibility and something that Bernie

621
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: is said there should be more of in red states

622
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 2: where Democrats are just not remotely competitive anymore at least

623
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: than you have a real competition. Because listen, all you

624
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: free market believers out there, right, if there isn't any

625
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 2: sort of like tension, yeah, absolutely, he's going to be

626
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 2: feeling pressure from this, you know, union leader, populist. That's

627
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 2: a good thing for everyone. In my humble opinion, whether

628
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: Dan Osborne is able to succeed or not.

629
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 4: I think it's why Mark Rubio held on to a

630
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 4: Senate seed and with him it wasn't cynical. And you know,

631
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 4: like I just just like that.

632
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 6: That's my But I've talked to the man about this.

633
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 4: I think he had a sincere that the competition feared him,

634
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 4: feared him, frightened him in twenty eighteen, the competition frightened

635
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 4: him in twenty sixteen into like reconsidering a lot of

636
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 4: different things. And the more that happens, certainly the better.

637
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 4: It's not always going to be sincere. A lot of times,

638
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 4: most of the time it's going to be cynical. And

639
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 4: if it's cynical, still means you have members of Congress

640
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 4: who are always not willing or not worthy of anybody's

641
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 4: trust making better decisions because they want to get real liked.

642
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 6: So that's exactly right structure.

643
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 2: Yes, you want to change, you want to make it.

644
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: So the cynical decision is also the right decision because

645
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: there are a good landscape that you want. Yes, exactly,

646
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: you can presume that there's going to be some level

647
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: of cynical political opportunism, which is exactly why I've been

648
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,239
Speaker 2: excited about the Zoron race as well, because I think

649
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 2: there will be a lot of cynical politicians who look

650
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 2: at this and go, oh, we live in a different

651
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 2: world now. Both in regard to Israel and with regard

652
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 2: to where you should position yourself in the political spec

653
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: and this is where the energy is, and so you know,

654
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: I think that can create some positive developments as well.

655
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 4: And for conservatives. When people are in debt, they can't

656
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 4: buy houses, what do they not do? They don't get married,

657
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 4: they don't have kids, they don't become in every case,

658
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: not in every case, they don't become the same level

659
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 4: of investment in their physical surroundings because they want to

660
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 4: go into a house someday and they want to build

661
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 4: a family in a different school district and a different community.

662
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 4: And so it's just that's the cycle that we're in

663
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 4: if none of these problems are fixed. Chris, So let's

664
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 4: talk about Rock and the Pentagon a match made in heaven,

665
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 4: because now they can throw this Politico element up on

666
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 4: the screen. Now the Pentagon can start using musks Grock

667
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 4: via x Ai and Grock for government. We can move

668
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 4: on to well, actually, let's talk about this just for

669
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 4: a second, because the details of the Political Politico report

670
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 4: are I don't even know what to call it, crystal. Basically,

671
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 4: they're just saying it's Grog for government. Is a quote

672
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,360
Speaker 4: suite of products that make our frontier models available to

673
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 4: the United States government and customers. Pentagon is obviously a

674
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 4: I don't even need to say it, a big client

675
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 4: to land if you are an ex AI, and now

676
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 4: you have Grog for Government out there. But all of

677
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 4: this happened after Grock completely melted down into abject anti

678
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 4: Semitic like Nazi rhetoric just last week, and in a

679
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 4: way that also exposed these sort of foundational, weird quirks

680
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 4: of Grock that are infused by what really seems to

681
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 4: be a lot of algorithmic power in the hands of

682
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 4: Elon Musk himself, a lot of influence over the algorithm

683
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 4: from the things that Elon Musk does and posts, whether

684
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 4: or not he's tweaking things behind the scenes, and now

685
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 4: the Pentagon, which is trying to embrace AI.

686
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 6: It sounds to me like.

687
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 4: What people are using Groc for Government for is as

688
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 4: a like government portal to be querying AI.

689
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 6: That's what the product sounds like.

690
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 4: It's one of those things where you know, when you

691
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 4: don't use it, you don't know exactly what Groc forg

692
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 4: Government is going to look like in practice. But as

693
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 4: they describe it, it sounds like that's what it is, Uh,

694
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 4: just crystal reaction Elon.

695
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 6: Yeah, never want Steve Bannon was furious.

696
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 4: That Elon for never really going to the Pentagon, and

697
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 4: now hey, maybe we know why.

698
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, indeed, a multi hundreds of million dollar contract with

699
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: the Pentagon, which is, you know, on top of the

700
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 2: many additions, like much additional money that Elon must gets

701
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 2: as one of the top subcontractors of the Pentagon, so

702
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 2: you know, this is just adding on top of that.

703
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 2: I mean, it's interesting politically because Elon and Trump supposedly

704
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 2: hate each other and Trump is certainly not above like

705
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,680
Speaker 2: nuking and contract because he doesn't like the person who's

706
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: involved with it. So that was kind of interesting to me,

707
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 2: is like, how real is the fight between them if

708
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,200
Speaker 2: he's getting this gigantic contract. It starts at the Pentagon.

709
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 2: But by the way, it also is going to be

710
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 2: available for purchase by any other government agency through the

711
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,000
Speaker 2: General Services Administration. So obviously, like you said, Pentagon is

712
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: a giant contract, but any other government agency also is

713
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 2: able to procure this XAI groc for government product. What

714
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 2: does it mean in terms of Elon? I mean, I

715
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,720
Speaker 2: think this was probably one of the core goals actually

716
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 2: of Doge, not the cost cutting efficiency bullshit, but being

717
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: able to advance his AI product, both in terms of

718
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 2: situating it as like the product of the United States government,

719
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 2: but also potentially in hoovering up all of the data

720
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 2: that is, you know, that is held by the United

721
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 2: States government and government employees and being able to use

722
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: that to feed his AI and whatever else he wants

723
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 2: to do with it. Obviously, the timing of it is

724
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 2: quite noteworthy. Give him that GROK was just on its

725
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 2: mecha Hitler arc, which I think you put well, Emily.

726
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 2: That part of what it exposed is first of all,

727
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:07,799
Speaker 2: I mean, just the fact that a few tweaks can

728
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 2: instantly lead an LM into just outwrite abject Nazism pretty

729
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 2: wild and will stancel rape fantasies for some reason, pretty wild.

730
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 2: But there were further problems because people found that when

731
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 2: they would querry things like GROC, what do you think

732
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 2: about the Israel Palestine conflict? When you looked at Groc's reasoning,

733
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:30,439
Speaker 2: because you can ask it to list like how it's

734
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: you know, going through its reasoning, it was querying what

735
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 2: does Elon think about this conflict? And then using that

736
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: predominantly to inform its articulated views.

737
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 5: So that's pretty wild.

738
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 2: And xay I put on an explanation of that, and

739
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 2: basically what they said is, when you asked GROC, what

740
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 2: do you think about something, Groc's internal process is like, well,

741
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: I don't think, so let me go out and look

742
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 2: and see how I can align myself with this company,

743
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 2: and you know, the founder of this company, and that's

744
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: how you ended up with this situation where would just

745
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 2: be like, well, I don't think, so what does Elon think?

746
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 2: But that's pretty terrifying. We all remember the previous incident

747
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 2: where Rock started just randomly talking about white genocide in

748
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 2: South Africa all the time. So this is the technology

749
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 2: that we now are about to have like throughout all

750
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: of government, but starting at the Pentagon, which seems like

751
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 2: a pretty crucial place to start. So, you know, I'm

752
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: very AI concerned. Most of the most of America is

753
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: very AI concerned. And that is deeply at odds with

754
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: the position of you know, certainly the Trump administration, but

755
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 2: of I think most elites, both Democrat and Republican, because

756
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 2: of how much tech money, how influential tech money is,

757
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 2: and the sort of national security imperative. Oh, we have

758
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 2: to beat China, so we need to just go full

759
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 2: steam ahead without thinking about any of this stuff. But

760
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: you know, this is just one more I think deeply

761
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 2: troubling development on our path to god knows where, on

762
00:38:58,800 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 2: our path to Mars.

763
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 4: I mean, with everything is bundled into this fantasy of

764
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 4: getting well, I shouldn't say fantasy. I mean I think

765
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 4: he for him is it's not a fantasy. It's it's

766
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 4: relatively realistic. But for him, it's it's like his sort

767
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 4: of that's his holy grail in the sense that that's

768
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 4: his fantasy, in the sense that it's his holy grail.

769
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 4: So this was a two hundred million dollar contract. Similar

770
00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 4: ones went to anthropict, Google and open Ai, and just

771
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 4: reading from the BBC or BBC report here this is

772
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 4: being framed as something for national security use. And your

773
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 4: point about the data and how important that might be.

774
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 4: I mean, it's also Elon like basically renting his brain

775
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 4: to the Pentagon to the point you just made the

776
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 4: Grock interpretation of what Elon Musk's brain is to the

777
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 4: Pentagon at some point, So to that extent, it actually

778
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 4: is for two hundred billion dollars that's understates the influence

779
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 4: that Elon Musk has sold, probably to the Pentagon with

780
00:39:57,400 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 4: this product, which is obviously going to be in competition

781
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:03,759
Speaker 4: with the Tropic and Google and other products.

782
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, but it feels like a trojan horse. That's what

783
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 5: it feels like. It feels like a trojan horse.

784
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 6: So let's put D two on the screen.

785
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 4: This was the apology over Groc, which, by the way,

786
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 4: the CEO, Linda Yakarina, actually left in the midst of

787
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 4: all of this last week. Our intent for Groc is

788
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 4: to provide helpful and truthful responses to users, said X.

789
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 4: After careful investigation, we discovered the root cause was an

790
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 4: update to a code path upstream of the grock bot.

791
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 4: This is independent of the underlying language model that powers Groc.

792
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 4: Now we can move to the next one. This is

793
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 4: from This is an element from Rolling Stone. Elon Musk's

794
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 4: Groc chat bot goes full Nazi, calls itself quote Mecha Hitler.

795
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 6: This was from the original.

796
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 4: So the apology was in reaction to all of this

797
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 4: Groc was acting. I was gonna say Groc was behaving badly,

798
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 4: but that completely understates what Grog.

799
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 6: Was actually doing.

800
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:03,720
Speaker 4: It was like just mad insanity and crystal in fairness.

801
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 4: This is actually not just a problem with GROC, like

802
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 4: this is something that doesn't just worry me about GROC.

803
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 4: I think it is especially worrisome with GROC because we

804
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 4: see this charismagic, e centric billionaire who wants to have

805
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 4: a lot of influence over politics exerting a lot of

806
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 4: influence over XAI, and part of their apology I think

807
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 4: actually makes that really clear. Like you see that in

808
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 4: the apology where we had the poll quote where it

809
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 4: says the root cause was an update to a code

810
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 4: path upstream of the grock bot. This is so granular,

811
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,520
Speaker 4: like it gets to how such small changes can produce

812
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:46,960
Speaker 4: massively consequential results and potentially repeated, Like you can have

813
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 4: all the safeguards you want in GROC for government or

814
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 4: open Ai for government or whatever it is Gemini for government.

815
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 6: You can take all of those precautions and safeguards.

816
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 4: Small changes are going to affect the algorithm and the

817
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 4: LM in that you cannot always predict, and so putting

818
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 4: them in the or spending so much actually taxpayer money

819
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 4: to create access to this at the Pentagon for the

820
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 4: purposes of national security, I'm sure the Pentagon will be

821
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 4: taking safeguards because there's so many obvious problems with this.

822
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 4: But the problem with AI in general is the unknown unknowns.

823
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 4: We don't even know what to prepare for. And that

824
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 4: is absolutely frightening.

825
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 2: That's so true, and I've said this before, but it

826
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,160
Speaker 2: bears reminding. What makes this technology really different is like,

827
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: if you make some change in the iPhone, there is

828
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 2: there are engineers out there who can go through and

829
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 2: test and predict. Okay, making this change is going to

830
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 2: have precisely these impacts on this piece of hardware. It

831
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,319
Speaker 2: is not the same with these lms. And that's what

832
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 2: you're seeing here. And Elon is incredibly arrogant and egomaniacal

833
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 2: and thinks that he can just go in and tinker

834
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: and do whatever he wants with no impact or you know,

835
00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,560
Speaker 2: with no consopt ones is whatsoever. And so he'll go

836
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: in and be like, oh, Grock's two woke. Let me

837
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: just put in this line of code to make grow

838
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 2: less woke. And next thing you know, it's calling itself

839
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: Mecha Hitler and fantasize thinking about what it's going to

840
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 2: do to will standele is like, what is going on?

841
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: And so I mean, that's what is particularly unnerving about

842
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 2: groc at the Pentagon is because Grock is controlled by

843
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 2: this insane man who will just make wild decisions and

844
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 2: is you know it unbelievable, like the nicest way you

845
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: can put it, as an unbelievable risk taker, always doubling down,

846
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,319
Speaker 2: always you know, right up against the wall or all

847
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 2: the way out on the ledge or how are you

848
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,840
Speaker 2: going to phrase that? And so he's perfectly willing to

849
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 2: just go in there and tinker and see what happens.

850
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 2: And when it's you know, when it's on Twitter, Okay,

851
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: that's still not great, but it's one thing. When it's

852
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: embedded in our national security apparatus and throughout our entire government,

853
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 2: that's another thing entirely. And so that's really what makes

854
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:05,880
Speaker 2: this technology so different is there is an entire universe

855
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: going on beneath the surface of these lms, and even

856
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 2: the people who are you know, program and designing them

857
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 2: and setting them loose on the world, even they don't

858
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: know how they're going to behave, which is why you

859
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 2: have all these stories about like you know, oh, we

860
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 2: went to we did this test, and we tried to

861
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,440
Speaker 2: shut off this other LM and it tried to copy

862
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 2: itself to a server, and then it went into these

863
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 2: emails and tried to blackmail an engineer and reveal this

864
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,640
Speaker 2: fake affair that we cooked up just to see if

865
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 2: it would do this to try to keep itself on. Like,

866
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 2: they don't know until they test it out how exactly

867
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,439
Speaker 2: it's going to behave And that is what is part

868
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:46,080
Speaker 2: of what makes these technologies so different and so unnerving

869
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 2: and ultimately so unpredictable.

870
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, what a what a happy topic. We'll also

871
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 4: toss in here the last element. This is the Wall

872
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 4: Street Journal reporting on Tesla's North American sales executive, top

873
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 4: North American sales executive who has just left. I mean,

874
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 4: this is somebody who was there after fifteen years, for

875
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 4: fifteen years, just left amidst the Tesla sale slump. You know, Actually, Chrystal,

876
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,840
Speaker 4: I feel like now for Tesla, with the sales slump

877
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 4: and with Elon Musk like refocusing his energies away from government,

878
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:26,479
Speaker 4: partially probably because some of the problems at Tesla. Yes,

879
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,239
Speaker 4: he's in a difficult hole because a lot of the

880
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 4: Tesla customer base was alienated, but also if ever, there

881
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 4: was a time for things to start climbing back out

882
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 4: of the hole, or for the company to start climbing

883
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:39,839
Speaker 4: back out of the hole. Probably be Now, if you're

884
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 4: an investor, this is not going to give you much confidence.

885
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 4: People internally feel like that process is in motion.

886
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about it. And you've got obviously trouble there.

887
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 2: You've got Linda Yakarina on as well as someone listing,

888
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 2: there were a number of other executives from his companies

889
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 2: who have also laughed or were like, I can't do

890
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 2: this anymore. And Tesla has their biggest problem is Elon's

891
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 2: brand and Elon himself, but they have other problems as well,

892
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: including increased competition, including the fact that ev credits have

893
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 2: not just been pulled in the US steel product line

894
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,600
Speaker 2: cyberchucat total and complete flop.

895
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 5: So they have a lot of kind of.

896
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 2: Deep issues that are difficult to see how they ultimately

897
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: are resolved, especially because you know, Elon stock is stacked

898
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 2: the board there with people, including like his own brother,

899
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 2: who he expects to be completely and totally loyal to him.

900
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 2: So probably the smartest thing for them to be to

901
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 2: do would be to find another CEO, but that is

902
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 2: very unlikely to happen at this point. But we do have, actually,

903
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: Emily one more element here, which is they have added

904
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 2: these two grock these companions.

905
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 6: That's right. I was trying so hard to Yes.

906
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 5: You didn't want to talk about it. I get it.

907
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 6: I don't even know what the hell it is.

908
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 2: So I don't I haven't played with these. I don't

909
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 2: know either, But they created these like avatars, anime avatar companions.

910
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 5: Is this just vo we have?

911
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 2: What do we have here that we can put up

912
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 2: on the screen of that people can Oh, it's a

913
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: sat All right, let's go and play this st of

914
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 2: one of these AI companions that they you can use

915
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 2: to sort of interface with GROC.

916
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 5: Let's go ahead and take a look.

917
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: Tail swinging totally wrapped up in this cozy moment with you.

918
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: What's got you so excited to say?

919
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 6: Hi, babe?

920
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,240
Speaker 2: Though, there you go. Male loneliness crisis solved, question mark.

921
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 6: Touch some grass.

922
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 4: I mean, we as a society need to just go

923
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 4: touch some grass.

924
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:37,279
Speaker 6: This is too much.

925
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 5: It's gone too far. It's gone too far this.

926
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 4: Time, he's gone too far. Well, thanks for making sure

927
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 4: we included that in this segment.

928
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 5: You're welcome. I got your back.

929
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: Girl.

930
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 8: Well, let's move on to Superman and bring griffinin.

931
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 4: Debate is raging over the new Superman movie, and here

932
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 4: too help us break some of it down is the

933
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 4: one and only producer Griffin.

934
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 8: He's here, his mustache is here, and.

935
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 4: He is ready to get into all of this with Crystal.

936
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 4: Both of them have seen the movie the motion picture.

937
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:13,920
Speaker 6: I have not.

938
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 4: I'm not particularly interested in seeing it because I find

939
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,760
Speaker 4: these movies very hard to follow.

940
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 6: And I don't know Crystal.

941
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 4: I was going to say, also, I'm a woman, but

942
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 4: I don't want to offend you. I know you're deeply

943
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 4: passionate about Superman. You're always talking about Superman. Sometimes you

944
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 4: wear your Superman pajamas and it's uncomfortable.

945
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 6: People can't see it.

946
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 4: It's under the desk, you're wearing Superman pajama pants.

947
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 13: I thought Crystal's favorite superhero was the Punisher. That's how

948
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 13: I thought.

949
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 5: It's hard to scribe to find out.

950
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: You know, we can do this in the premium, am

951
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: guyscribe to find out my actual favorite superhero.

952
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 6: There we go.

953
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 4: All right, So on that note, though, I'm going to

954
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,799
Speaker 4: go ahead and kick this over to you all so

955
00:48:57,880 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 4: I can sit back and listen and make fun of

956
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 4: you and maybe ask some probing questions.

957
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let me just start because I have the

958
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 2: most surface level possible thoughts, which is just Griffin had

959
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:12,480
Speaker 2: texted us. Okay, this movie is definitely about Israel Palestine.

960
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 2: But even so I still thought like it's probably pretty

961
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 2: subtle and there's probably some plausible deniability. It is not subtle,

962
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 2: and there is no plausible deniability. It is like very

963
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: clear from even like the flags that they use and

964
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 2: what the people look like, and the bad guy country

965
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 2: is a close US ally and they're really technologically advanced,

966
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 2: and they're going up against this like, you know, very

967
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 2: sort of like Middle Eastern coded looking people who are

968
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 2: equipped with like rocks, and their little kids who are

969
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: about to get murdered and all of these sorts of things.

970
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like very very blatantly the central

971
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 2: conflict that Superman is you know, caught up trying to

972
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,399
Speaker 2: resolve is between these two countries that are very very

973
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 2: clearly Israel and Palestine. And that was absolutely mind blowing

974
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: to me that and it seems like a really significant

975
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:06,839
Speaker 2: cultural moment that Griffin, you can have this major Hollywood

976
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 2: blockbuster summer production that instead of like in the old days,

977
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 2: it was always like, you know, the bad guy country

978
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 2: was clearly the Soviet Union. Now it's Israel is the

979
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: clear bad guy country. That seems like just an incredibly

980
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 2: significant cultural shift coming out of Hollywood.

981
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 13: Yeah, And you know, I like I don't generally like

982
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 13: to like, you know, like turn my politics brain on

983
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 13: for movies because generally, like they're written by like liberals

984
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 13: that are trying to do like a very generic message.

985
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,080
Speaker 13: They're trying to make something that you can kind of

986
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 13: like apply to lots of situations. But what was striking

987
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 13: was like the insane specificity in this film.

988
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 1: And we've got a Shapiro clip right here, you.

989
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 13: Know, Shapiro movie reviews, and he says, not politically charged,

990
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 13: not really about Israel or Palestine.

991
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: Why don't we roll that clip?

992
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 7: So the left is suggesting that the foreign policy conflict

993
00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 7: in which Superman engages is a stand in for Israel

994
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 7: and the Palestinians, or alternatively for Russia and Ukraine.

995
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: So let me give you the geopolitical setup. The geopolitical set.

996
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 7: Up here is that there is a country called Bravia,

997
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 7: and this country called Baravia is run by essentially a

998
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 7: corrupted dictator who's working with Lex Lutheran and it invades

999
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 7: another sovereign country, jar Henpoor. Okay, And so Superman stops

1000
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 7: that at the very beginning and doesn't show him stopping it.

1001
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:33,640
Speaker 7: He talks to Law's Land about it.

1002
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: Fine, Okay.

1003
00:51:34,120 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 7: The idea is geopolitically that Bravia has been a long

1004
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 7: time ally of the United States. Jar Henpoor is a

1005
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 7: country where we don't know who it's allied with, and

1006
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 7: a may or may not be run by Jihati's but

1007
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 7: we don't know, Like we don't know who it's run by.

1008
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,680
Speaker 7: It doesn't matter. The only reason that Clark stops it,

1009
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 7: that the Superman stops it is he says, because.

1010
00:51:51,960 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 12: People are going to die.

1011
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,880
Speaker 7: Which, as we'll get to in sort of my final

1012
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,800
Speaker 7: breakdown of why this movie doesn't work and why no

1013
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 7: really good Superman movie has been made since seventy eight.

1014
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 1: What did he say?

1015
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 7: I'll explain in a moment. The people of Jarhampur are brown.

1016
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:09,600
Speaker 9: Look at my African American a here.

1017
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: The people of Bravia are white. Okay.

1018
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 7: So this is why the Left is reading this as

1019
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 7: Israel of the Palestinians. The reason it doesn't work that

1020
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 7: way is because we are not made aware that the

1021
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 7: people of Jarhampur are either wildly terrorism supportive, that they've

1022
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 7: participated in multiple terrorist attacks on the people of Bravia.

1023
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 7: They are led by a corrupt dictatorship that murders gay people.

1024
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 9: Right.

1025
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 7: None of that's in the movie, so it doesn't match

1026
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 7: up that way. And the idea that Bravia is Israel

1027
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 7: in this iteration like a long time US ally that's

1028
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 7: randomly invading countries for territorial gain, that does not match

1029
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:39,560
Speaker 7: up to any of the facts on the ground that

1030
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 7: we know of at all. That is not that is

1031
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 7: not real. So maybe in left winging brain, that's how

1032
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 7: it reads. I could see if you're a left winger

1033
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 7: and you don't know anything about the situation, or you

1034
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 7: think a bunch of false things, you could you.

1035
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: Could read that.

1036
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,439
Speaker 7: Maybe you could also read this as Russia Ukraine because

1037
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,400
Speaker 7: it's one sovereign country that's invading another sovereign country, and

1038
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 7: because the leader of Bravia has a Russian accent. So

1039
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 7: I guess that if you have like poison left brain,

1040
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:03,760
Speaker 7: go so.

1041
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 13: Sorry, left wing brain, turn it off. Let's turn movie

1042
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,279
Speaker 13: brain on. Crystal what did you make of that? I mean,

1043
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 13: for me, the big one is like okay, He's like, yeah,

1044
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 13: they're brown and the Israelis are white or sorry, the

1045
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 13: Bravians are white and that's but that could be that

1046
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 13: could be anybody. It could be like Russia Ukraine, but

1047
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:24,239
Speaker 13: I think the.

1048
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 5: One it's famously brown Ukrainians.

1049
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I have you been there? Have you been?

1050
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 4: So?

1051
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 13: For me though, like the the real red flag oh

1052
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 13: this is about Israel Palestine is that they're a US ally,

1053
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 13: which doesn't work in the Russia Ukraine.

1054
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 2: Apparently exactly No, that's exactly right. And also even the

1055
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 2: technological disparity, like it works I guess a little bit

1056
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 2: Russia Ukraine, but not to the same extent because they

1057
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 2: really literally show the Barravians rolling in with this high

1058
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: tech gear and the jarren Orians who are supposed to

1059
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 2: be the Palestinians, like have you know their farmers and

1060
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 2: they have these very like basic weapons, and the imagery

1061
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 2: is one hundred percent Israel Palestine specifically Kaza. I mean,

1062
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:13,719
Speaker 2: I sort of feel for Ben here because if you

1063
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 2: are an Israel supporter, you are caught in between a

1064
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 2: rock and a hard place, because if you admit like, okay,

1065
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 2: this is Israel and Palestine. Then everyone goes, oh, so

1066
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 2: you do know that they're like a genocidal monster country

1067
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 2: that is attacking innocent poor people and like children. And

1068
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: if you don't, then you just look ridiculous and coping

1069
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:39,279
Speaker 2: like he does here. Because again I thought it would

1070
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 2: be subtle. It is just not subtle. And the Russia

1071
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 2: Ukraine parallels don't work out at all whatsoever. I think

1072
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 2: they don't make sense if you watch the movie, it

1073
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,960
Speaker 2: just doesn't track to Russia Ukraine at all. So and

1074
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 2: then the leader of Bravia himself, Hassan and others have

1075
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 2: pointed out he actually looks like the found under of

1076
00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 2: Israel Ben Gurion. He sounds sort of like net Yahoo

1077
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 2: in the rhetoric that he uses is very much you know,

1078
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 2: coded as similar reddic to rhetoric to what not only bebe,

1079
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:16,640
Speaker 2: but you know Smoke Drich and Ben Gavie and others

1080
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 2: in the Uov Galant and others in the Israeli cabinet

1081
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:20,879
Speaker 2: like things that they say.

1082
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 4: Griffin, could you address the James Gunn of it all

1083
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 4: and maybe some of what we know about people who

1084
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,719
Speaker 4: are involved in production and writing and whether that tells

1085
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 4: us anything about what they may have intended to do

1086
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 4: with the way they structured the plot there.

1087
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 13: Yeah, so that's really hard to say because I mean

1088
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 13: what is striking is not only that it's like political,

1089
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 13: but it's this third reil issue that you didn't really

1090
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 13: ever see in major Hollywood films before. I mean, James

1091
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:52,560
Speaker 13: Gunn is a really interesting director because he kind of

1092
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,960
Speaker 13: built like the modern DNA of like the Marvel Universe

1093
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 13: with Guardians of the Galaxy, and it's allowed.

1094
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: Him a lot of cloud very political movie.

1095
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,879
Speaker 13: I mean that one, well, Guardians three actually is so

1096
00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 13: like I guess what I was trying to say is

1097
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 13: like he has started to add more and more like

1098
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 13: third rail or uncomfortable topics to major blockbusters. I'm thinking

1099
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 13: about in Guardians three, it's all about like animal cruelty

1100
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 13: and the evils of like lab testing on animals, and

1101
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,920
Speaker 13: there's really uncomfortable scenes in there that like normally wouldn't

1102
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,200
Speaker 13: be allowed in a major Hollywood film because they're not fun.

1103
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 13: But he's been fitting that in and now I mean

1104
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 13: with this one, I can't I can't really say what's

1105
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 13: you know, what's in his mind or what's in his

1106
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 13: heart or for the people who wrote it. But I mean,

1107
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 13: there's so many just striking scenes that seem like this

1108
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 13: was probably conceived of before October seventh. H A lot

1109
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 13: of the scenes actually evoke something closer visually to the

1110
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 13: Great March of Return in terms of people approaching a

1111
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 13: fence and being like, you know, attacked, gunned down.

1112
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:56,720
Speaker 1: Most of them have like rocks.

1113
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 13: I think like one guy had like a machete, but

1114
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 13: like very few of them had like any guns.

1115
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: Uh. And then yeah, so I'm not really sure there

1116
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:06,760
Speaker 1: to Crystal's.

1117
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 13: Point about, like if you're someone who is watching this

1118
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,520
Speaker 13: movie and it's pro ISRAELI like, what, that's just gotta

1119
00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 13: be a crazy feeling because it's like like imagine like.

1120
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: Seeing yourself like in the Villain or whatever.

1121
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,520
Speaker 13: Like if I was watching like Silence of the Lambs

1122
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 13: and I was watching like Buffalo Bill, and I was like,

1123
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:25,600
Speaker 13: are they making fun of me?

1124
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,040
Speaker 1: Like are they calling me out?

1125
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 13: I put the lotion on the skin, that's normal, So

1126
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,000
Speaker 13: like it must be really uncomfortable for them. But I

1127
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 13: do give props to Shapiro because Shapiro, like you know,

1128
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 13: outside of politics, he does drill into movies and he

1129
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 13: did have to come up with something like why is

1130
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 13: this not it? And he said it's because they're not

1131
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 13: Jihadis or they're not. It's not told to us that

1132
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 13: the Jarhan poor people. We don't know they could be

1133
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:57,120
Speaker 13: terrorist or not. And because James Gunn doesn't specify, it

1134
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 13: can't possibly be Pallstein because because that would be the

1135
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 13: elephant in the room and he would have to clarify,

1136
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:05,919
Speaker 13: and only then could it be Palestine if they're Jahatis.

1137
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 1: So that was driving me crazy last night.

1138
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 5: But you know they're also Griffin.

1139
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 2: There is a line in there too where Superman says

1140
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: something like they may not be perfect, but we need

1141
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 2: to save these people or something like that.

1142
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 13: So it was driving me crazy last night, and it

1143
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 13: was like eight o'clock and I said, fuck it, eleven

1144
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 13: pm screening, I'm seeing it a second time. So I

1145
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 13: saw it last night again and I caught you Shapiro.

1146
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,240
Speaker 13: Here's the line that is very specific that a Superman

1147
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 13: and Lois are arguing and they're saying, basically, she Lois

1148
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 13: is kind of coming from the non interventionist like us

1149
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,400
Speaker 13: perspective that it's like, you know what, that's over there,

1150
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,520
Speaker 13: you shouldn't have gotten involved, you should have gotten approved

1151
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 13: by the US. And also Lois says, you know, a

1152
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 13: tyrannical regime runs jarhnpoor.

1153
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: So they even do say that, sorry, sorry, Shapiro, I

1154
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: got you.

1155
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 13: I can't clip it because it's copyright Wow damn.

1156
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 1: So so it's just like it's.

1157
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 4: Probably just got back from it because you woke up

1158
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 4: so early your time.

1159
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: Three hours ago.

1160
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, though, I gotta say yeah, I And then there

1161
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 2: was there was some other line about like, well they

1162
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:25,240
Speaker 2: may not be perfect, but blah blah blah. So there

1163
00:59:25,280 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 2: was even like an allusion to like, well it's Hamas

1164
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:30,760
Speaker 2: and they're bad. Of course, you know it's not directly Hamas,

1165
00:59:31,120 --> 00:59:34,560
Speaker 2: but I picked up on that parallel as well. Let's

1166
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:37,760
Speaker 2: talk about the other piece that is very political here,

1167
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 2: which is the the immigration part. And this got this

1168
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 2: was sort of like I think before right after it

1169
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 2: came out, this was the big conversation over on Fox

1170
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,000
Speaker 2: News is like, is Superman and immigrant?

1171
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 5: And what does that mean? Did we end up?

1172
00:59:51,560 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 6: Guys?

1173
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:55,600
Speaker 2: Do we have for the Shapiro's take on the immigration

1174
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,479
Speaker 2: part of this, because this was this was the other

1175
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 2: part is you know, again my take is I hated

1176
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 2: the movie but of course it has nothing to do

1177
01:00:03,080 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 2: with the fact that this is related to Israel.

1178
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 5: Because it's totally not.

1179
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 2: And also it has nothing to do with immigration either,

1180
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 2: Like this isn't political. I just hated it for other

1181
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: independent reasons. But it also seemed to me that the

1182
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 2: pro immigrant message was also quite central here. And there

1183
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:22,240
Speaker 2: were other allusions to sort of you know, modern day happenings,

1184
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 2: including and I don't think this gives away too much.

1185
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 2: Superman gets locked with no due process, and there's even

1186
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 2: you know, there's even sort of dialogue about why he

1187
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 2: doesn't get due process because he's the quote unquote alien.

1188
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,000
Speaker 2: He gets locked into this sort of like Seacott type

1189
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 2: prison from which there's no release and no escape. Of

1190
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:43,080
Speaker 2: course he figures out it is escape.

1191
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:46,000
Speaker 1: But it was in Florida too. It was said in Florida.

1192
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:48,000
Speaker 5: I think that's right. You're so right about that.

1193
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 2: So in any case, there were threads throughout that made

1194
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 2: allusion to and this part. I won't completely give up,

1195
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 2: but you know, at the end, he sort of wraps

1196
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 2: this in a bow in terms of like the life,

1197
01:00:56,920 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: you know, the life lessons that you're supposed to take

1198
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 2: from the film, which are also very much related to

1199
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:04,840
Speaker 2: the immigrant experience in America.

1200
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I agree with you, it is present.

1201
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 13: I thought it was going to be the main thing,

1202
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 13: especially because that's what Fox News was like zeroing in on.

1203
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 13: But it's kind of secondary, I think to the Israel

1204
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:19,400
Speaker 13: Palestine thing was seems to be like about you know,

1205
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:21,800
Speaker 13: like really the focus of the film, like I think

1206
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 13: like Luther calls Superman like an illegal immigrant at one

1207
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 13: point or what have you. And there is that jealouscene,

1208
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:30,920
Speaker 13: I agree, which I didn't think about before. But to me,

1209
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 13: that's like that was always like a more safe topic

1210
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 13: for Hollywood, like being pro immigrant.

1211
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,080
Speaker 1: So it didn't it didn't surprise me.

1212
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 13: And it didn't feel like different from other Marvel or

1213
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:45,960
Speaker 13: like DC Property stuff where we've seen that kind of acceptable,

1214
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 13: you know, general liberal message that any criticism of Israel

1215
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,320
Speaker 13: is pretty much not you know, I mean the only

1216
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 13: movie that that was like no other land this year.

1217
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 7: Uh.

1218
01:01:55,960 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 13: And I'm trying to think of anything else that's been

1219
01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 13: going on. I mean, I guess you could say The

1220
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:00,520
Speaker 13: Zone Interest.

1221
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 2: But what people say and Or second Season, I haven't watched.

1222
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,240
Speaker 2: I'm in the first season of and Or people say

1223
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 2: and Or second season right, is about Israel.

1224
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 13: Well, it is, it's about there is a genocide episode

1225
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:21,840
Speaker 13: where genocide does happen, and you could apply some stuff

1226
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 13: to that.

1227
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: That one, even you could make more generic.

1228
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 13: I think this is the most specific, like major blockbuster

1229
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 13: film to talk about this topic. And I guess the

1230
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 13: big other thing though that I was thinking a lot

1231
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 13: about that does relate to the Israel Palestine, but also

1232
01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 13: relates to how I see not only Shapiro, but I

1233
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,919
Speaker 13: would say a lot of other like gamer Git sort

1234
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:48,680
Speaker 13: of in cell coded superhero community fans, they're really upset

1235
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 13: that Superman is weak in the film, that he takes punches,

1236
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 13: that he gets hurt, and that Superman shouldn't be weak.

1237
01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 1: I think we've got a clip of that from Shapiro

1238
01:02:58,600 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 1: as well. Let's roll it.

1239
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 7: He's not very super he is not a man of steel,

1240
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 7: he is not invulnerable.

1241
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 1: He gets his ass kicked routinely.

1242
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,000
Speaker 7: He gets locked up in a prison with it with

1243
01:03:09,040 --> 01:03:12,280
Speaker 7: a character who's making kryptonite out of his hands. Sorry what,

1244
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,800
Speaker 7: He's constantly in victim mode. Like Green Lantern has much

1245
01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 7: more success in this movie. Mister Terrific has much more

1246
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 7: success in this movie than Superman.

1247
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 4: Zoom producer Mac is really thrown off by the cringe

1248
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:25,080
Speaker 4: millennial editing where you.

1249
01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: Toss in it's all it's tough, is it not.

1250
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 4: I think it's cryte millennial right like that, like Circle,

1251
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 4: like twenty thirteen.

1252
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 6: That was so edgy and hip.

1253
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 4: So this is this is a critique that I actually

1254
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 4: find very compelling, having not seen the movie. I bet

1255
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 4: you would get the right and the left both agreeing.

1256
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 4: I get you would even get I bet you would

1257
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 4: even get the filmmakers saying this was an intentional effort

1258
01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 4: to make Superman look more vulnerable and to look sort

1259
01:03:56,200 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 4: of less toxically masculine. And I feel like that's what

1260
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 4: Shapiro was saying. He thinks it's bad, they would think

1261
01:04:03,400 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 4: it's good. That's sort of what I'm saying. I would

1262
01:04:05,400 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 4: they made him.

1263
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 6: So, yeah, he made his Superman.

1264
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:13,320
Speaker 4: But I feel like maybe both sides would agree. Tell

1265
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:16,240
Speaker 4: me if I'm wrong that that's wasn't probably an intentional

1266
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 4: part of the character.

1267
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,160
Speaker 13: Well, I'd be curious what Crystal has to think about

1268
01:04:20,160 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 13: it for me, just real quick, like yeah, just from

1269
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 13: a narrative perspective, And I don't think like any of

1270
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 13: us are like major Superman fans, so we're just kind

1271
01:04:28,920 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 13: of approaching the movie as it is. But like if

1272
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 13: Superman is just invulnerable or like doesn't lose that just

1273
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 13: like narratively kind of boring like in a movie for

1274
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 13: him just like win in every scene. So there's just

1275
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,840
Speaker 13: something like narratively not satisfying about that to me personally.

1276
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 13: But I think that like the big question of the

1277
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 13: film because Superman is facing off with Lex Luthor and

1278
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 13: sort of the question is like who wins between a

1279
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:56,440
Speaker 13: battle of brains versus like brawn, Like is it is

1280
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 13: it the mind or is it the ultimate strength that wins?

1281
01:04:59,760 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 13: And for me, like the film like decidedly says, it's

1282
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 13: actually a third thing. It's actually his Superman's humanity, his

1283
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:12,240
Speaker 13: kindness and his connection to other humans and even in

1284
01:05:12,240 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 13: connection to other animals, and his like desire to do

1285
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:22,320
Speaker 13: something that is uncomfortable for the greater good, like those

1286
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 13: things that humanity is ultimately like what saves the day

1287
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 13: and allows Superman to win and is like his greatest strength.

1288
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 5: Yes, I totally agree with that.

1289
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:33,760
Speaker 2: And when Emily was saying, you know, it was probably

1290
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 2: an intentional choice to make him not be like toxically masculine.

1291
01:05:38,680 --> 01:05:40,960
Speaker 2: I think it was more an intentional choice to make

1292
01:05:41,040 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 2: him more human. And there's some dialogue again that speaks

1293
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:48,880
Speaker 2: directly to that towards the conclusion of the movie, where

1294
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 2: he's talking about, you know, raised by these parents, human

1295
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,240
Speaker 2: parents in Kansas, and they're the ones who really instill

1296
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 2: in him these deeply human values in spite of the

1297
01:05:57,520 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 2: fact that he is technically an alien from another plan.

1298
01:06:00,520 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 2: And so, you know, I thought that was a core

1299
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 2: theme in the movie and another one that you certainly

1300
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 2: can read in a very political way, because I mean,

1301
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,840
Speaker 2: you've got the tech right the Lex Luthor character could

1302
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:19,640
Speaker 2: be a Peter Teal, he could be an Elon Musk,

1303
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:24,440
Speaker 2: the sort of like evil genius archetype. You know, you

1304
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 2: got Peter Teal out there, like I'm not sure if

1305
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:28,480
Speaker 2: the human rights should survive, Like I could go either way.

1306
01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:30,360
Speaker 2: Maybe I am the anti Christ. I don't know, Like

1307
01:06:30,440 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 2: he was kind of that archetype. And then you also

1308
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 2: have Okay, well is it that or is it just

1309
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 2: like the brawn and the strength, which is also you

1310
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 2: know a question right now, and so one of the things,

1311
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 2: and this may be me viewing it through my own

1312
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:45,479
Speaker 2: political lens, but we all get to go and watch

1313
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:46,960
Speaker 2: the movie, make of it what we want to make.

1314
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 2: One of the things that's been really disturbing to me

1315
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:53,080
Speaker 2: about this era of our politics and our culture is

1316
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:57,280
Speaker 2: this sort of up is down quality of the characteristics

1317
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 2: that are valued, Like this sense of just like being

1318
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 2: nice and being humble and looking out for the little

1319
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 2: guy and you know, having some sense of shame and honor.

1320
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 2: Those things seem to have been completely dispatched with and

1321
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,640
Speaker 2: it's instead the person who succeeds is like the biggest,

1322
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 2: you know, most arrogant, like in many instances, absolutely like

1323
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:23,840
Speaker 2: fool Charlatan con Man, who's completely shameless, who's just absolutely

1324
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:25,560
Speaker 2: in it for themselves and what they can get out

1325
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 2: of the situation. And so to me it also felt

1326
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:31,520
Speaker 2: like a rebuke of that era in our politics in

1327
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:32,280
Speaker 2: our culture.

1328
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 6: It's not okay to talk about Sager like that.

1329
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 13: One don't tell them, okay, Sager bald shaking like Les Luthor.

1330
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:43,760
Speaker 6: The grivin.

1331
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:46,560
Speaker 2: I just respond to anything you want to there. But

1332
01:07:46,560 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 2: I also just want to like taking the politics out

1333
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 2: of it. How did it land for you? As just

1334
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:51,640
Speaker 2: like a movie. I brought my kids to see it.

1335
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 2: They it was kind of long for them, but at

1336
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:55,880
Speaker 2: the end when it got very actiony, like they were

1337
01:07:55,920 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 2: into it as well. I mean I just thought it

1338
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 2: was also just kind of a fun, like kind of

1339
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:05,080
Speaker 2: campy classic superhero vibe, kind of a flick as well.

1340
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 13: Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I'm kind of gassed

1341
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 13: out on the genre, and this one was like fun

1342
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 13: and interesting. So it's like, I don't know if I'm

1343
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 13: fully back on watching every superhero film, like like Sager

1344
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,679
Speaker 13: is a sicko. He sees like all the Marvel movies,

1345
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 13: like he's seen like ant Man three, which I don't

1346
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 13: even think is a real movie.

1347
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: So but for me, I've been a little gassed out.

1348
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 13: This did feel like a breath of fresh air, simply

1349
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:33,679
Speaker 13: because it didn't feel tied to like larger universe stuff

1350
01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 13: and had interesting messages and really good acting and fun actions.

1351
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,439
Speaker 13: So and I've always liked James Gunn, even from like

1352
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 13: his first indie movie Slither, so it's always fun to

1353
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 13: see like what he's up to.

1354
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, like I wanted to go like to what

1355
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:46,719
Speaker 1: you said.

1356
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:49,280
Speaker 13: About like being kind or whatever, because now like the

1357
01:08:49,400 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 13: end message, well I didn't mean to me to dismiss

1358
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:56,519
Speaker 13: it I just didn't remember what she said. So like

1359
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,360
Speaker 13: the end message is that it's like punk rock to

1360
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 13: be kind and so I'm seeing lots of people like

1361
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:04,840
Speaker 13: being like, you know, kindness is the new punk rock.

1362
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:07,439
Speaker 13: I just like today I saw Superman and then I

1363
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:10,160
Speaker 13: help this old lady walk across the.

1364
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,160
Speaker 1: Street with their groceries, and like that stuff is good.

1365
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:17,720
Speaker 13: But I think like the ultimate kindness Superman does is

1366
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:20,599
Speaker 13: for the people of Jarhenpor that he like takes a

1367
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:26,799
Speaker 13: really uncomfortable position and encourages others that normally wouldn't have acted,

1368
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 13: like these other superheroes like Green Lantern and Hawkrel to

1369
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 13: act and to do something that is dangerous that is

1370
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 13: personally scary, uh, but it matters because it's about helping

1371
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 13: other people. And so like that is like the that

1372
01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:44,280
Speaker 13: is part of the kindness part of Superman that I

1373
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 13: think everyone should take home. A movie does not fix

1374
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:51,680
Speaker 13: what's happening in Israel Palestine, and it was like heartbreaking

1375
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:54,320
Speaker 13: to see scenes of like these kids in the movie

1376
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 13: and think about the hundred plus people that are getting

1377
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 13: killed every day at these aid stations. Like a movie

1378
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 13: can't fix that, but it is like a glimmer of

1379
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:07,080
Speaker 13: hope that at least some people in this industry.

1380
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: It's very few.

1381
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,720
Speaker 13: It's been very very quiet industry and sometimes like a

1382
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 13: very punishing industry to be pro Palestine. Oh, you think

1383
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:17,840
Speaker 13: of so many people, and not even just the ones

1384
01:10:17,880 --> 01:10:20,080
Speaker 13: that get articles written about, but I mean people I

1385
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:23,000
Speaker 13: know that work at agencies that are trying to rise

1386
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:27,080
Speaker 13: up in the ranks. I know Palestinian people that are

1387
01:10:27,120 --> 01:10:30,320
Speaker 13: working in Hollywood that have a whole different experience. But

1388
01:10:30,439 --> 01:10:33,000
Speaker 13: this is potentially a glimmer of hope that they can

1389
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 13: at least start talking about a little more, or that

1390
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 13: it's so it's such an unavoidable evil that it is

1391
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:41,439
Speaker 13: now the de facto movie evil when people think about

1392
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:44,400
Speaker 13: like what's wrong in the world. So, yeah, I don't

1393
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 13: know what that means, but I guess hopefully the movie

1394
01:10:46,520 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 13: career is everyone to be a little more courageous on

1395
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:50,839
Speaker 13: this issue and others.

1396
01:10:51,160 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's all side Griff. And you know,

1397
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 2: last thing that I was thinking about with regards to

1398
01:10:56,280 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 2: this is like, even this can't be Superman movie, could

1399
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:06,519
Speaker 2: not make Bravia quite as cartoonishly evil as Israel has

1400
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 2: actually been.

1401
01:11:07,400 --> 01:11:08,719
Speaker 5: I mean, if you put.

1402
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:14,320
Speaker 2: In there, they're luring the jarren Purians into aid stations

1403
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 2: and then massacring it people masacring them. People be like,

1404
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:19,720
Speaker 2: that's just like, why would they even do that? I mean,

1405
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 2: that's just over the top, you know, I mean the

1406
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:25,160
Speaker 2: bombing of the schools and the hospitals and the medical

1407
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,599
Speaker 2: wards and the journalists and you know, I mean the

1408
01:11:27,640 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 2: intentional starvation and the entire Like that also struck me

1409
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:35,400
Speaker 2: is that, like Bravia was meant to be cartoonishly evil,

1410
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:39,680
Speaker 2: and even in that cartoonish evil, real the like the

1411
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:44,280
Speaker 2: real world has in some ways surpassed that level of horror,

1412
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:46,960
Speaker 2: and so that really, you know, that really struck me

1413
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 2: as well watching this is you couldn't even conceive of

1414
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 2: something beyond the horrors that we witness every day on

1415
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:57,720
Speaker 2: our timelines in real life. So, you know, to me,

1416
01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 2: the biggest takeaway was just what a dramatic culture shift.

1417
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 2: No way this movie comes out in this way, you know,

1418
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 2: two years ago, not a chance that you have, you know,

1419
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:09,840
Speaker 2: or even a year ago. I mean, I think it's

1420
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:14,240
Speaker 2: just a real sign of how much the American public

1421
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 2: has shifted in the way that they're viewing this conflict,

1422
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 2: that you could have this Hollywood blockbuster that is, you know,

1423
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,960
Speaker 2: so clearly painting Israel as like these are the batties.

1424
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 5: And by the way, the US is is aiding the

1425
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:27,640
Speaker 5: bad guy country. We are not.

1426
01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:29,760
Speaker 2: We are not the heroes. We are the ones who

1427
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 2: are on the side of the bad guy country.

1428
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 1: So me and Shapiro are going to fix it.

1429
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 13: We're going in and doing a little rewrite, re release,

1430
01:12:37,120 --> 01:12:39,200
Speaker 13: and we're going to just include one line that's going

1431
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:41,880
Speaker 13: to fix everything. We're gonna We're Superman is going to

1432
01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:46,160
Speaker 13: say that Jarhanport was promised to Bravia three thousand years ago.

1433
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:48,800
Speaker 5: And well, that totally changes everything and.

1434
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 13: That and that's gonna that's going to flip the whole perspective.

1435
01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 13: You're gonna want to watch the whole movie again with

1436
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,680
Speaker 13: a different perspective.

1437
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:58,040
Speaker 4: Uh I noticed we didn't say anything about the uh

1438
01:12:59,360 --> 01:13:03,680
Speaker 4: the very odd the not so subtle overtones in the

1439
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:07,080
Speaker 4: new Lulo and Stitch being about Nigorno, Kara Bach and

1440
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 4: everything happening there right now.

1441
01:13:09,520 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, they also made Stitch less masculine.

1442
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,519
Speaker 2: We'll save that for another segment. Guys, it's too much

1443
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:17,759
Speaker 2: for today, too much.

1444
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 8: We call him store Stitch.

1445
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:24,720
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh.

1446
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 8: Well, that's a wrap.

1447
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 5: Thank you, Griffin, appreciate it.

1448
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 4: Crystal, thanks so much for hanging out. Thanks Salem for

1449
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 4: us that it was, had a fairly long cameo today,

1450
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 4: So yeah.

1451
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,799
Speaker 5: Appreciate Salem's time always.

1452
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,400
Speaker 2: I'll let him know. I know people always enjoy when

1453
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:44,360
Speaker 2: he shows up. It's always a little dicey for me

1454
01:13:44,360 --> 01:13:45,960
Speaker 2: because you never know what that crazy kid he is

1455
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:47,600
Speaker 2: going to do. But I don't know, did did that

1456
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:49,519
Speaker 2: Superman discussion make you want to watch it? Or make

1457
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:51,680
Speaker 2: you more leg I don't really need to see this.

1458
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:54,160
Speaker 6: I just I don't know.

1459
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:56,800
Speaker 4: I feel like the country is mostly all in on

1460
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,320
Speaker 4: superhero movies, which I think is totally great and fine,

1461
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 4: but then they're there's this cohort of us. It's just

1462
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 4: like I can't I can't get into it, Like if

1463
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 4: I wanted to, I couldn't get into it. I don't

1464
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:08,720
Speaker 4: know what it is, but I thought you guys had

1465
01:14:08,760 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 4: a really interesting discussion, and I think it's culturally sort

1466
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 4: of an ink blot test, and I'm always interested in

1467
01:14:14,000 --> 01:14:16,640
Speaker 4: that why some people interpret things one way? And like

1468
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:19,719
Speaker 4: why is Fox News is running segments about super woke

1469
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,160
Speaker 4: and then you have even like conservative reviewers in National Review,

1470
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:26,559
Speaker 4: for example, saying there's nothing woke about this movie. And

1471
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 4: that's the type of thing. Even the debate about whether

1472
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 4: it's is reel or not. It's like, why are people

1473
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:34,559
Speaker 4: seeing things so differently? A very interesting question.

1474
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think partly it seems to me that people

1475
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 2: who just genuinely liked the movie but whose politics don't

1476
01:14:42,479 --> 01:14:45,600
Speaker 2: necessarily fit with the movie want to sort of like

1477
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:49,320
Speaker 2: under like downplay, like, yeah, totally not it wasn't woke.

1478
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 2: That's why I loved it because it wasn't woke. Actually,

1479
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:53,880
Speaker 2: it's like, well, I mean, I guess it all. Woke

1480
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:55,720
Speaker 2: is sort of a meaningless term at this point, so

1481
01:14:55,760 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 2: you can define it in any way you want. But

1482
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 2: you know, the the attempt to claim that it's not

1483
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 2: political is preposter I mean, almost every movie has some

1484
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:10,679
Speaker 2: sort of politics to it because that's just the nature

1485
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:13,080
Speaker 2: of life. But this movie is particularly political. I think

1486
01:15:13,120 --> 01:15:17,360
Speaker 2: that's hard to hard to really square with the central

1487
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:21,120
Speaker 2: messages of the film, and then to try to pretend

1488
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:23,600
Speaker 2: it's not Israel peals. I was just like, if you

1489
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,640
Speaker 2: see it, you'll you will see very clearly what was

1490
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 2: you know, what was being attempted?

1491
01:15:28,240 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 5: Hear they do not try to make it settle whatsoever.

1492
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:32,639
Speaker 6: Interesting interesting, interesting times.

1493
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:35,800
Speaker 4: Your parallel back to how the Soviet Union sometimes it

1494
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 4: wasn't sometimes it wasn't overt. It was just like very

1495
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 4: obviously created to be the Soviet Union, for example in movies.

1496
01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:46,000
Speaker 4: I thought that was really interesting too, So I enjoyed it.

1497
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 4: I enjoyed hearing you discuss this with Griffin. It was

1498
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 4: great to have Griffin here, and it was great to

1499
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 4: have you here today too, Chrystal.

1500
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:54,720
Speaker 6: You'll be back in with Stager tomorrow.

1501
01:15:54,479 --> 01:15:58,880
Speaker 2: Right, yep, for in with Sager tomorrow for normal breaking points.

1502
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 2: So I will see you guys guys then, And we've

1503
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 2: got Friday show plan and all that good stuff too,

1504
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:04,240
Speaker 2: so we'll see you guys soon.

1505
01:16:04,400 --> 01:16:04,880
Speaker 6: Sound good,