Speaker 1: You're listening from Waiting on Reparations. It's a production of
Speaker 1: my Heart Radio. Yeah, I'm waiting for my reparations. I
Speaker 1: need my ship. Dope knife Arriet p y'all know what
Speaker 1: TeV it is. She hit the lay up, I might
Speaker 1: toss the meaniss. Y'all want the flavor, then, don't trip.
Speaker 1: Just think of this this episode. You're gonna acknowledge what
Speaker 1: it means celebrated father this day and now it's how
Speaker 1: much to the Queen's clean the teeth in the respect?
Speaker 1: Don't forget bout me an ex rod dig a note
Speaker 1: name if you want to see him flex If you're
Speaker 1: planning to stay Kathy and the Layer be our guest
Speaker 1: waiting on reparation, start handing me my check yet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like this and like that dope knife fall lay
Speaker 1: but my mama coming back. Of course it's a different
Speaker 1: color and fly. I'm Tai's more for excellence because my
Speaker 1: chromosomes got a second accident. And I don't think it's
Speaker 1: an accident that happens. I'm the best the rest and
Speaker 1: happen to have all this extra estrogen. Who she kind
Speaker 1: of feminine? She must be psycho. You're kind of right though,
Speaker 1: I'm maybe it's private. I'm taking my off to wa
Speaker 1: Ron makes Ron making take some pot host because the
Speaker 1: monument ape the Faith in the Rock boy Man, even
Speaker 1: where the episode Wescovery Christ has started, I'm deadly obscured.
Speaker 1: But I'm sure you heard of miss Hank to the art,
Speaker 1: Tak to the e R the eons where I put
Speaker 1: every beat that at beyond y know what's good people,
Speaker 1: which is dope nighte Lingua franca. And we are waiting
Speaker 1: on reparations up. So how are you doing? Yo? Um?
Speaker 1: I went through an ordeal yesterday. What happened? Yeah? So
Speaker 1: the long background is that in the wake of a
Speaker 1: lot of the gun violence that I've been referencing um
Speaker 1: in the show, just kind of talking about what's been
Speaker 1: going on in the neighborhood, a lot of people have
Speaker 1: been stepping up to like sort of form organizations or
Speaker 1: launch programs for the youth. Because some of the people
Speaker 1: who have involved in the shootings, either as suspects or victims,
Speaker 1: have been very young, the youngest fifteen years old, and
Speaker 1: so a lot of people are stepping up for the
Speaker 1: young people, trying to, you know, get them involved in
Speaker 1: leisure services activity from the government or launched their own
Speaker 1: like tutoring programs and getting kids jobs, etcetera. And so
Speaker 1: this one group and we're working with UM Save the
Speaker 1: Youth had the idea of purchasing a city bus to
Speaker 1: transport kids around to different activities in town and then
Speaker 1: have us like a mobile portable, UM hangout spot, like
Speaker 1: put some PlayStations in there, just posted up on the
Speaker 1: block and have a spot kids can come hang out
Speaker 1: and instead of like we're down the streets by themselves.
Speaker 1: So UM, we bought the city bus, uh like two
Speaker 1: weeks ago, and UM the plan had been that, uh,
Speaker 1: my partner Paul and this dude Donald, this this other
Speaker 1: guy that rolls with him, we're gonna go down and
Speaker 1: pick it up yesterday. So they had plane tickets. They
Speaker 1: drove them to the airport at like six o'clock in
Speaker 1: the morning and they missed their flights. So we were like, well,
Speaker 1: we're already an hour and a half. It's only another
Speaker 1: four hours to Florida where the buses. So we just
Speaker 1: drove down and got it and then in um we
Speaker 1: got it picked it up, drove it back. It was
Speaker 1: like a tropical rain storm, but other than that was fine. Um,
Speaker 1: so we got to make it. The bus broke down
Speaker 1: and Magan and so we hung out and makan for
Speaker 1: like four hours trying to figure out what to do
Speaker 1: around what time was that that was around we had
Speaker 1: to make around We're megan for like four hours. Finally
Speaker 1: decided to get it towed back to Athens at like midnight,
Speaker 1: and so we got back here. I got everything wrapped up,
Speaker 1: including I had to like go to it and find
Speaker 1: an a t M to pay the toe trunk person
Speaker 1: at like four o'clock this morning. So we got like
Speaker 1: four So I was in the in the car or
Speaker 1: otherwise dealing with like bus stuff for twenty two hours yesterday.
Speaker 1: For the love of the children. For the love of
Speaker 1: the children. You know, I really believe about this project.
Speaker 1: I think it's a great idea. Um. I just definitely
Speaker 1: did not intend, you know, like I had a whole
Speaker 1: day planned yesterday and then it was like, well, nope,
Speaker 1: I am driving to Florida. I guess. So that has
Speaker 1: been my That has been my saga. And that is
Speaker 1: how I mean. I even I want to be like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, at least everything got taken care of in
Speaker 1: the end, and that's a hell of an ordeal though. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we gotta get the alternator tuned up, I guess on
Speaker 1: the bus so that I can be mobile again, or like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's a there were many things that
Speaker 1: were still left to be done in the bus anyway,
Speaker 1: like you know, getting it wraps with something cool, and
Speaker 1: like we were planning on converting it to like biofuels
Speaker 1: so we can get like restaurant donation grease to like
Speaker 1: fuel it so it would be cheaper to fuel and
Speaker 1: like teach kids about sustainability all this stuff. So now
Speaker 1: that's just one extra thing on the list. But unfortunately
Speaker 1: had a little bad news in the family. Uncle of
Speaker 1: mine and Liberia had passed away. Yeah, I mean apparently,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a new strain of COVID that's going
Speaker 1: around in Liberia that's causing some damage. They're like as
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, of happy in a couple of
Speaker 1: African countries. Just to you know, words of the people
Speaker 1: out there. You know what I'm saying, not to push anything,
Speaker 1: but you know you should go and get vaccinated because
Speaker 1: that's like literally the reason why is the stuff mutating
Speaker 1: and changing and new strains and stuff like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it's it's truly a privilege to have the opportunity
Speaker 1: to get vaccinated. There's so many like people in other
Speaker 1: parts of the world they're like hoping that they could
Speaker 1: get vaccinated and show you right, yeah, who don't even
Speaker 1: have vaccines available and like, yeah, cases are up in
Speaker 1: a lot of parts of Africa. I've heard. Well, I'm
Speaker 1: very sorry for your loss. Yeah, it's it's it's sad,
Speaker 1: but it's you know, it's life. Um, But let's get
Speaker 1: into some more positive things because we have a pretty
Speaker 1: jam packed episode for you guys today. We're going to
Speaker 1: be talking about women in hip hop the impact they
Speaker 1: have and to talk about that, we're gonna be chatting
Speaker 1: with author of the book God Saved the Queen, which
Speaker 1: is a fantastic, fantastic book by the way, I really
Speaker 1: recommend it. Yeah, that God Saved the Queen's The Essential
Speaker 1: History of Women in Hip Hop, author Kathy and Ley,
Speaker 1: And we're going to have her on a little bit.
Speaker 1: But before we do, you know, I was the one
Speaker 1: who was primarily on this interview. Unfortunately the ride didn't
Speaker 1: get a chance to be there, which I really wish.
Speaker 1: I mean, it was just a matter of like a
Speaker 1: you know, circumstances scheduling and stuff. But it's like I
Speaker 1: felt definitely kind of like, you know, man, I would
Speaker 1: have loved to hear the two of you guys go
Speaker 1: back and forth on this topic. But at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, I think we had a pretty good
Speaker 1: conversation that you guys are about to hear. But what
Speaker 1: are some of your thoughts Mariah about? Like, first of all,
Speaker 1: just like the trajectory that women have had hip hop,
Speaker 1: both on the mic and behind it, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, And how's that changed or evolved in just
Speaker 1: even your time of like being in the game, let
Speaker 1: alone like the history of the whole thing. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like I was somewhat of a
Speaker 1: late bloomer with my own hip hop career just because
Speaker 1: of like the way that women are treated in the industry.
Speaker 1: Like I grew up feeling like I didn't have any
Speaker 1: hip like female hip hop role models, despite you know,
Speaker 1: kind of listening to folks like ms elliott Um. But
Speaker 1: I think it's because of like the prominence or lack
Speaker 1: thereof that like female hip hop artists have tended to
Speaker 1: hold within the mainstream industry, like who who um labels
Speaker 1: elevate and like you know who was seen as like
Speaker 1: the main stars, etcetera. So despite the fact that there
Speaker 1: have always been always been really robust representation within hip
Speaker 1: hop culture for women since its inception, I think when
Speaker 1: that sort of like gets filtered through, like the corporate
Speaker 1: music landscape, a lot of it gets filtered out. And so, um,
Speaker 1: it wasn't until I got older that I, um, you know,
Speaker 1: started making using myself. But it's interesting, like the double
Speaker 1: edged sword of you know, even still like being a
Speaker 1: female hip hop artist. And I'm sure there's an of
Speaker 1: other like identity intersections where people are like you wrap,
Speaker 1: like what in addition to being female, like which I
Speaker 1: think is the main thing when people find out a
Speaker 1: wrap and like, you know, never mend me like what.
Speaker 1: But you know, we we had our battle rap episode recently,
Speaker 1: and a lot of that, you know, being a part
Speaker 1: of that culture, um, just being subjected to and just
Speaker 1: like an easy target of a lot of misogynists attacks
Speaker 1: and good and you could say in good fun or whatever,
Speaker 1: but being pretty much the only the only female battle
Speaker 1: rapper in the scene when I was doing my thing,
Speaker 1: um and experienced just a lot of life just had
Speaker 1: a good tough skin around, like my gender identity with
Speaker 1: that regard um and oh but otherwise just interpersonally in
Speaker 1: the scene doing with a lot of misogyny, like uh,
Speaker 1: just like I guess there's assumption like you trying to
Speaker 1: hit on me and stuff like that where it's just
Speaker 1: like I want you to I want your respect as
Speaker 1: an artist. I like want you did respect my music. Um,
Speaker 1: I don't want to feel pressured like look a certain
Speaker 1: way in order to like get your attention on stage.
Speaker 1: I just want to be quiet, am And so some
Speaker 1: considerations that I think male artists don't always face. But
Speaker 1: on the flip side, um, I think that the novelty
Speaker 1: of being like one of the only female rappers pretty
Speaker 1: even the battle rap scene and happens and back in
Speaker 1: two sixteen to seventeen, it was actually like a boon,
Speaker 1: like it had the reverse effect of what I experienced
Speaker 1: as a kid with regards to like the female media
Speaker 1: blackout was in the music industry where it was like, oh, snap,
Speaker 1: let's book that girl. Um, Like, I feel like I
Speaker 1: got more opportunities than like the male artists, of whom
Speaker 1: there were so many they were almost impossible to differentiate like, oh,
Speaker 1: there's like so many dudes out here, but let's get
Speaker 1: that one girl, you know, to play the show, to
Speaker 1: do this thing, etcetera. So to and to a to
Speaker 1: an extent, it was actually a benefit to me um
Speaker 1: as well. So it's just a mixed bag, honestly, UM
Speaker 1: And I try to be really a about the I guess,
Speaker 1: like I don't want to call it privilege, but like
Speaker 1: the some of the ease with which I was able
Speaker 1: to like get opportunities because of my gender, because like
Speaker 1: I don't want I don't. I just think it's dangerous
Speaker 1: to always construe gender as like a like a form
Speaker 1: of oppression necessarily worth like in some instances, actually it
Speaker 1: benefited me, And like I want to be very real
Speaker 1: about that, um where even though perhaps interpersonally in the
Speaker 1: scene and otherwise I had to put up about ship
Speaker 1: from people that just like didn't perspect women on the
Speaker 1: artists who side of things. So do you think that
Speaker 1: some of the advantages that you feel that you got,
Speaker 1: do you think that was a circumstance of the time
Speaker 1: period that you're in and that you're active in, Like
Speaker 1: do you think? And I think so too, Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: if you were like the only female rapper in the
Speaker 1: battle scene in Athens in Like, do you think those
Speaker 1: advantages still would have existed in that same way? No, No,
Speaker 1: I don't. I mean because I think I think today.
Speaker 1: I mean, like I haven't looked at the numbers. This
Speaker 1: is tobally anecdotal, but from my experience of hip hop music,
Speaker 1: it does seem like there are a lot more prominent
Speaker 1: female hip hop artists today than there were when I
Speaker 1: was growing up. Um, like more than I can count
Speaker 1: on one hand. You know, we got like Nicki Minaj,
Speaker 1: one of the best sellers um in the industry, Megan Stallion. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like there's so many and there and and genre blending
Speaker 1: to folks that sort of bringing some people like Beyonce
Speaker 1: and their delivery in their music. It's increasingly popular for
Speaker 1: her to like take on like a hip hop like
Speaker 1: a rappers affect and some of her songs because it's
Speaker 1: like being normalized that like being a woman that raps
Speaker 1: is cool. I think we're talking about that Beyonce thing before.
Speaker 1: I still say beyonceonp I don't know write your lyrics.
Speaker 1: I hope it's her because goddamn, sometimes it's like whoa,
Speaker 1: that's nasty, lord a mercy Jesus Christ. Yeah, and so yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think I like to believe that girls
Speaker 1: growing up today, Um though though representations of women in
Speaker 1: hip hop are still highly sexualized, um, there's at least
Speaker 1: a great representation in general. So there's like a little
Speaker 1: girl growing up today could be like, oh, I could
Speaker 1: be a rapper, because like they see the music videos
Speaker 1: they here, they watch the YouTube, you know, they see
Speaker 1: they see women doing this thing. Whereas when I was
Speaker 1: growing up, it was like, look at Missy Elliott flailing
Speaker 1: around in some trash bags on MTV and I can't
Speaker 1: say the rain, you know, like, and that was and
Speaker 1: that was effectively it in terms of my exposure to
Speaker 1: women in hip hop. Yeah, I mean little Kim was
Speaker 1: definitely well Kim, yeah, Kim ground Like it was all
Speaker 1: three of them were like around the same you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, the same time period. So like, because
Speaker 1: I remember back then being a little bit older than you, like,
Speaker 1: Missy was like the breath of fresh air. Yeah you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, because because you know, Little Kim
Speaker 1: kind of came out the gate with the hyper sexuality thing.
Speaker 1: And then obviously when something is popular, you have a
Speaker 1: bunch of you know, like people like that kind of imitate,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So it kind of seemed
Speaker 1: like that was a saturation. So by the time Miss
Speaker 1: Elliott came around, it was like, Yeah, I'm just doing
Speaker 1: like these crazy wild videos and I'm in the trash
Speaker 1: bag and yeah wild out and ship. It was like,
Speaker 1: oh man, that's cool. It's like quirky and weird and
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It was like an alternative.
Speaker 1: But how do you how do you do? Do you
Speaker 1: feel any kind of way, like the same way that
Speaker 1: certain images are proliferated throughout hip hop, Like you know
Speaker 1: sometimes when we talk about like the glorification of gang
Speaker 1: life and gang imagery and stuff like that, do you
Speaker 1: think that kind of that same sort of thing is
Speaker 1: happening might be happening on any level with like in
Speaker 1: the mainstream with female artists, like the proliferation of Yeah,
Speaker 1: I do think so. I think that, Um, there's like
Speaker 1: a there's this there's a sense of like to be
Speaker 1: hard in this industry. There's like a couple of different ways,
Speaker 1: like got a lot of money, I'll fuck you up.
Speaker 1: I like, you know, a bang I'm like abstrapped or
Speaker 1: like like I get it in and like I might
Speaker 1: not own that in terms of like female rappers. It's
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna tell you omahara, bitch, because like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna get into some pretty graphic detail about like what
Speaker 1: it's about to go down when the lights go off
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Like I do think that is a
Speaker 1: very predominant Um, it's it's it's a trope of the
Speaker 1: lyrics and the music videos. Um. But then but like
Speaker 1: you know, we have people like Princess Nokia that like
Speaker 1: you're also owning like female representation in a very um
Speaker 1: just ut like outside the box way of like what
Speaker 1: your body can be like and like owning that, and
Speaker 1: it's owning different what you wear. You know, it's like
Speaker 1: different kind of stuff like that. Um, I think that
Speaker 1: we are, even if even if it's mostly within the underground,
Speaker 1: just like expanding notions of femininity within hip hop of
Speaker 1: recent and I think it's good. It's good. I mean
Speaker 1: it might take a while to trickle into the mainstream,
Speaker 1: and depending on how you find mainstream, someone like Princess
Speaker 1: Nokia is highly popular, but um, you know, we're getting
Speaker 1: broadening the horizon. I think I think that we're getting
Speaker 1: towards like novel forms of storytelling, um and different like
Speaker 1: in visual representations, different ways women can look in hip hop.
Speaker 1: But it's ultimately a battle against like what capital rewards.
Speaker 1: Like I think that we do see a lot of
Speaker 1: sexualized imagery and like lyricism among women because like, that's
Speaker 1: what we'll get you on. That's what will gives you
Speaker 1: you know, uh play you know, uh universal music will
Speaker 1: drop that Sony was going to drop that, you know,
Speaker 1: no doubt. It's the reason that you see, you know,
Speaker 1: the violent imagery and the gun imagery. It's with the
Speaker 1: It's with the market demands, you know what I means
Speaker 1: with the market rewards. So that's what the market's going
Speaker 1: to get. So we are going to take a little
Speaker 1: break and then we get back. We're gonna have Kathy
Speaker 1: Andelay and we're gonna talk to her about women in
Speaker 1: hip hop and her book, God Save the Queen's. So
Speaker 1: today we are adding with author of the book God
Speaker 1: Save the Queen's, the Essential History of Women in Hip Hop,
Speaker 1: Kathy Anderley, how are you doing, Hey, how's it going?
Speaker 1: I'm good. I really need to invest in like a soundboard.
Speaker 1: So when I introduced people like that, I can like
Speaker 1: press like the audience sounds like yeah, like welcome you
Speaker 1: to the show. Right. So the first thing that I
Speaker 1: want to ask is I always like to ask people
Speaker 1: because it interests me, how did you get into hip hop?
Speaker 1: Hip hop as as just like a fan? Just from
Speaker 1: you know, you know what, what what was it about
Speaker 1: hip hop? Pat your interest to get into as a fan? Um?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm an eighties baby, and when I kind
Speaker 1: of left the fog of the boy band era and
Speaker 1: I'm talking new kids on the block, not Backstreet boys,
Speaker 1: because I'm that old. I think that I would say
Speaker 1: that I would mark you know nine that that that
Speaker 1: period of time. The first video that I think I've
Speaker 1: really just gravitated towards was a Lady's First and it
Speaker 1: was one of those things where I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: what's happening here? Right? And I was only like ten
Speaker 1: years old. But then it was in two with TLC
Speaker 1: Ain'to Proud to beg and you know, there was there
Speaker 1: were so many other songs and videos in between. But
Speaker 1: when I can say that I went from hip hop
Speaker 1: fan to hip hop head, I would say it was
Speaker 1: during that period of time and it's it's a it's
Speaker 1: a funny introduction because you know, like at Proud to
Speaker 1: Beg literally set the tone for my entire style up
Speaker 1: until Fujie Law, which then changed it all up again.
Speaker 1: And you know, I was a Fujies fan between two
Speaker 1: um boot for whatever reason, Booth Bop was like, I
Speaker 1: was like, Wow, this is a great song, and you know,
Speaker 1: because I was a distract to fancause a Lauren Hill.
Speaker 1: But I think like I went through these little periods
Speaker 1: of time where like if you start with it was
Speaker 1: from like Ladies First and Browns to Beg Fougi Law
Speaker 1: and then like no Time by Little Kim, Like I
Speaker 1: have very specific moments and there's the guys are in
Speaker 1: between two. But you know we're we're here to talk
Speaker 1: about the ladies, so I um, you know, keeping it topical,
Speaker 1: but that was definitely I would say Ladies first. So
Speaker 1: because so if Ladies First was like, you're the thing
Speaker 1: that made you go from just being a fan to
Speaker 1: like being ahead, then is it is it fair to
Speaker 1: say that like strong female oriented hip hop was kind
Speaker 1: of like the thing that opened your eyes to like
Speaker 1: what with the possibilities of what could be done with
Speaker 1: the genre. It was more, yes, but it was also
Speaker 1: a relatability factor because you know it it was aspirational
Speaker 1: at that point where it's like, oh, I could be
Speaker 1: that cool one day, right, And I think that that
Speaker 1: was that was one of the things that also because
Speaker 1: if you're thinking about that time period too, I was
Speaker 1: like a big fan of a different world and everything
Speaker 1: that was going on the whole, like Flower Child era
Speaker 1: of hip hop, Like there was sayah and it was
Speaker 1: a vibe and it was it was different. It was
Speaker 1: fundamentally different from what I, as a kid had been
Speaker 1: listening to. And I think what, you know, I grew
Speaker 1: up in a single parent household with my mom, so
Speaker 1: I was always drawn to strong female leads and I
Speaker 1: was I was, you know, raising only child, so to
Speaker 1: be to see that in other women, even as a kid,
Speaker 1: it just it was representative of my mother. It was
Speaker 1: representative who I wanted to grow into, you know. And
Speaker 1: I can say I wasn't having like these really deep
Speaker 1: thoughts as like a ten year old, but I know
Speaker 1: throughout yeah, throughout over the years. What what always piqued
Speaker 1: my interest in the way of um of hip hop
Speaker 1: has always been what has connected to connected with me
Speaker 1: based upon my own values and and and the women
Speaker 1: around me and the woman I wanted to become. So then, okay,
Speaker 1: so now going from being like a hip hop head
Speaker 1: to actually being someone who is involved with like, you know,
Speaker 1: the whether you want to say hip hop industry or
Speaker 1: hip hop culture. You're like you know, and you've been
Speaker 1: ingrained and involved in it for twenty years plus. So
Speaker 1: what was it that made you then make that transition? Well,
Speaker 1: as a kid, I UM, I might have written on
Speaker 1: a few walls that might have been my person my
Speaker 1: my first introduction to them, to the elements UM, but
Speaker 1: you know, I as far as working in hip hop
Speaker 1: as a teenager, I UM, I worked at a court
Speaker 1: store and my section was the hip hop section because
Speaker 1: of course, right it was actually a hip hop and
Speaker 1: electronic which was really funny because the two beats that
Speaker 1: I would write about, um became hip hop and electronic
Speaker 1: music because I just it was just cataloging and constantly
Speaker 1: knowing what these states and reading liner notes. It just
Speaker 1: became a fascination. And then from there I went and
Speaker 1: I worked in places like fat beats and and and
Speaker 1: things like that. But you know, I when I was
Speaker 1: nineteen eighteen, nineteen nineteen, yeah, nineteen, I started handing out
Speaker 1: flyers for the Roots and UM promoting their Black Lily
Speaker 1: concert series while I'm from Jersey, but Black Lily was
Speaker 1: also at the Wetlands and uh in New York and
Speaker 1: UM they were they were pushing, you know, Black Lily
Speaker 1: into nine. So I was like handing out flyers and
Speaker 1: doing all this stuff. And that's when you know, things
Speaker 1: fall apart. Happened. They want the Grammy, all these things,
Speaker 1: and I like literally hopped on at that point, and
Speaker 1: it became clear to me that in some way, shape
Speaker 1: or form, I wanted to become part of beyond you know,
Speaker 1: the culture of hip hop, the industry of hip hop
Speaker 1: right and contribute in some way. I knew I couldn't wrap.
Speaker 1: I certainly couldn't break UM, so I UM and I
Speaker 1: really tried and failed. When I was at Fat Beats
Speaker 1: to DJ, I could do a little something, but I'm
Speaker 1: not going to sit there and you know, put any
Speaker 1: put put a d J in front of my name
Speaker 1: unless it's DJ Tanner. But but I I during that
Speaker 1: period of times, who was when I got started in writing,
Speaker 1: and there were so many people who were part of
Speaker 1: the roots okay player message boards who were magazine editors
Speaker 1: and writers and did all that kind of stuff. And
Speaker 1: you know, I was a writer. I always wrote as
Speaker 1: a little kid. I always you know, journals, and I
Speaker 1: was a writer. And I was like, well, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: do you remember what your first like story was. I do.
Speaker 1: I covered, Um, you remember when the graffiti writers were, um,
Speaker 1: we're tagging on trucker cups. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. My
Speaker 1: first story was a little right up about how that
Speaker 1: was like returning to fashion. I had a friend who
Speaker 1: did that too for him. Yeah, he made some good
Speaker 1: money doing that. We're based in Georgia. I live in Savannah, Georgia.
Speaker 1: My co host lives in Athens. Wow. Okay, yeah that
Speaker 1: was like that was hot. Like you would go through
Speaker 1: soho and it's like all the like old school um
Speaker 1: graffiti writers were like, you know, tagging up on hats
Speaker 1: and stuff. And I remember, um, I had one that um,
Speaker 1: this one particular writer and the knack he tagged my
Speaker 1: old tag name on it, and I thought that that.
Speaker 1: I thought that was like the coolest thing. And they
Speaker 1: used as the image for my for my article. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So then from there on, you just it just started.
Speaker 1: I just kept going from there and that was my
Speaker 1: first print article. But I actually entered in a really
Speaker 1: weird period of time for for journalism in general, because
Speaker 1: I realized that I could pursue journalism at a time
Speaker 1: where the Internet was kind of like figuring itself out
Speaker 1: and we had a lot of those like were they
Speaker 1: live journals back then? It was something there was there
Speaker 1: was something was going on that was like kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, the predecessor to blogs. And I used the
Speaker 1: Okay player message boards. There was a section called the
Speaker 1: lesson and um I used that section to sit and
Speaker 1: write my own little wanna be op eds and stuff,
Speaker 1: and it just you know, it kind of continued from
Speaker 1: there until I, I mean, I feel helped something like
Speaker 1: that helps you develop like a writing voice there, right, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And I think that was the biggest, the weirdest thing too,
Speaker 1: when you when you were at certain magazines who want
Speaker 1: to eliminate voice from pieces because there's like this uniform
Speaker 1: voice that was that like a is that like a
Speaker 1: thing where they try to take like the uniqueness out
Speaker 1: of the writing styles and stuff depending on the section
Speaker 1: of the magazine. When you're getting started out there's there's
Speaker 1: the front of book, you know, the fob that's got
Speaker 1: one voice, you know, and then you go to the
Speaker 1: middle where you get more of the features, and then
Speaker 1: towards the end is where reviews typically I'm judging. I'm
Speaker 1: going by the source and double Exile for for speaking
Speaker 1: in hip hop. Um oh, I didn't mention that at
Speaker 1: the beginning that you've written for the source Double Xel,
Speaker 1: rolling Stone, Guardian et Centric. So okay, so you know,
Speaker 1: we got the first writing assignment and it's been going
Speaker 1: since then, so obviously we're skipping a bunch. But when
Speaker 1: we get to the point of you're sitting down to
Speaker 1: write God Save the Queens? What what has it inspired
Speaker 1: you to? Like? Because I mean when you whenever anybody
Speaker 1: takes an endeavor like that, you know, something with something
Speaker 1: like that, I'm I'm kind of talking about it from
Speaker 1: a sort of artist, you know, perspective. So it's like you,
Speaker 1: as the artist you're about to partake in creating a book, like,
Speaker 1: what is it that made you feel like, hey, this
Speaker 1: is something that I need to do and now, well,
Speaker 1: originally I wanted to do it in two thousand nine ish,
Speaker 1: it had been in the works for like a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but publishers just weren't feeling it, like they didn't know
Speaker 1: because I kind of wanted to do it during the
Speaker 1: time period where there was a lull in that one
Speaker 1: female hip hop artist, right, like the the one that
Speaker 1: everybody always talks about, the one, And when I was
Speaker 1: thinking about this book, it was like one of those
Speaker 1: things where there was no current person who was like
Speaker 1: at the top, right, So this is like you said, like,
Speaker 1: oh nine, Yeah, this was like literally minutes before Nicki
Speaker 1: Minaj Blue, like you know, two thousand and eight, she
Speaker 1: was doing her thing on the mixtape circuit. But you know,
Speaker 1: two thousand nine was like the year right that it
Speaker 1: led into. And yeah, I was like I was like
Speaker 1: just too late at that point, and I think, um,
Speaker 1: I put it on hold. And over the years, I
Speaker 1: covered you know, um women in hip hop as my
Speaker 1: primary beat, like just constantly trying to bring new, um,
Speaker 1: new female hip hop artists to the surface while still
Speaker 1: you know, um giving flowers to all the legends and
Speaker 1: and that kind of continuous coverage. And then you know,
Speaker 1: an artist came to me and wanted me to do
Speaker 1: her book and it did n't materialize, and then you know,
Speaker 1: I had an agent by then, and he was like,
Speaker 1: you know, is there like a thing you've been kind
Speaker 1: of sitting on. I was like, well, you know, I've
Speaker 1: been sitting on this idea of a book on women
Speaker 1: and hip hop. He's like, that's the book, Like create
Speaker 1: the first one so the rest can like they could
Speaker 1: be broken up into individuals, like there's no there's no
Speaker 1: Bible so to speak. Right, So that's really where it
Speaker 1: came back around. So when you say that, you were
Speaker 1: kind of put you know, trying to see what was
Speaker 1: up with it back then, and we said, like, publishers
Speaker 1: weren't failing at yeah because it was because it was
Speaker 1: about women in hip hop. No, I think it was
Speaker 1: because they didn't they didn't know how to create the story.
Speaker 1: So there's a book called Girls Like Us that um
Speaker 1: talks about Carol King, Johnny Mitchell, and Carly Simon, right,
Speaker 1: and it's like three representative women in that like folk rock,
Speaker 1: singer songwriter genre. And I was asked to think of three, right,
Speaker 1: three women in hip hop, and that could have so
Speaker 1: you could say Queen Latifa, Lauren Hill, and Little Kim
Speaker 1: Let's say, right, But then you've left out mc light
Speaker 1: and Salt and Peppa and Roxan Shontay you know, um,
Speaker 1: and so then you could say Rock Sandschnte, Salt and
Speaker 1: Peppa and Queen Latifa. But then you've left out MC light,
Speaker 1: You've left out Money Love, Foxy Brown. So and then
Speaker 1: there was like this thing where it could be like, okay,
Speaker 1: so representatives, right, so you could go beginning, middle, and
Speaker 1: then who was the last, like who was the looking ahead?
Speaker 1: And in theory, that could have been at that point
Speaker 1: Nicki Minaj. But there, you know, at that point, there
Speaker 1: was also just we didn't know, we didn't know it
Speaker 1: was to come, We didn't know any of it. So
Speaker 1: I think, you know that was that was the biggest struggle.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think it might have a lot to
Speaker 1: do with women in hip hop. It it could have
Speaker 1: to do with women in general. It could do black women,
Speaker 1: Like there's there's so many different reasons why publishers act
Speaker 1: the way they act, and I'm just I'm glad that
Speaker 1: it finally happened. But in putting a book together and
Speaker 1: you take a look back and now you've got four
Speaker 1: decades of coverage that you have to be responsible for
Speaker 1: accurately covering that became it was like, oh, what did
Speaker 1: I sign up for? But I mean, do you how
Speaker 1: do you think it's been received? I mean, people really
Speaker 1: like it. It's so funny because I'm just gonna say it,
Speaker 1: there's always like a random white dude who will pull
Speaker 1: some like female rapper out of obscurity, like you forgot
Speaker 1: about and I'm just like, it's all it's always that
Speaker 1: dude that will try to like we don't don't forget
Speaker 1: you know, so and so had bars and it's just like, alright, cool,
Speaker 1: Like if you wrote a history on hip hop in general,
Speaker 1: did how's your how's your ski? Low? Chapter? Going? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I was just about to I was going to
Speaker 1: make that same analogy. It's like I kind of look
Speaker 1: at it, as you know, hip hop is like a
Speaker 1: history book that has its chapters, and it's like it
Speaker 1: doesn't it's not somebody not being in that history book
Speaker 1: isn't a denigration to their art or their contribution, no
Speaker 1: more than it is for like you personally to not
Speaker 1: be in a like actual classroom history book, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? And like shout out of Skilo because
Speaker 1: you know, I too wish I was a little bit
Speaker 1: taller but like but it's like but it's like honestly, like,
Speaker 1: don't come to me and asked me my Silky Fine
Speaker 1: wasn't in the book. Yeah, you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: a shout out of Stilky Fine too, because Romeo and
Speaker 1: Juliet was a jam. But I you know, there's I
Speaker 1: had a whole chapter that had to get cut from
Speaker 1: the book where you know, I was carrying on about
Speaker 1: conscious daughters and nonchalant and even Nana Cherry you know.
Speaker 1: Um so that kind of it just put a hard pause,
Speaker 1: um like looking for that kind of feedback because it
Speaker 1: was only and it was only going to make it
Speaker 1: a matter of just like trying to like prove that
Speaker 1: they like you don't have to know every single female
Speaker 1: rapper in history to make a good history book about
Speaker 1: female rappers. Yeah, I mean I used to. One of
Speaker 1: the things I used to do is like I would
Speaker 1: go into record stories, into the hip hop section and
Speaker 1: just like I spend like an hour, two hours just
Speaker 1: looking at the sheer volume of stuff that has been
Speaker 1: released through time. I mean, there's so many cats that
Speaker 1: dropped one album or two albums like twenty years ago
Speaker 1: that you know, unless you discover it for yourself personally,
Speaker 1: it kind of will be lost in time, so you
Speaker 1: can't really I don't know how you can have that
Speaker 1: expectation that if somebody's making like an essential guide, it's
Speaker 1: like got the word essential in it for a reason.
Speaker 1: You know, you can't have everything right, it's just in
Speaker 1: you know, even there are there are a lot of um,
Speaker 1: you know, female mcs that should all have mentioned, like
Speaker 1: you know, Miss Melody, and like I tried, I tried,
Speaker 1: I tried, but it was you know, and I made
Speaker 1: sure that if there wasn't a whole chapter or something
Speaker 1: like that, then at least there was a mention to
Speaker 1: kind of just be like, you know this, this happened,
Speaker 1: you know, but it's it's hard or what do you
Speaker 1: think of the evolution of female rep as the years
Speaker 1: of progress? I think that it's been I hate saying
Speaker 1: that because I'm on some like I'm on some you know,
Speaker 1: dogmatic hip hop ships. I'm you know, I'm looking at
Speaker 1: people as mcs and I hate putting the word female
Speaker 1: before the word see. As long as you can, I
Speaker 1: think we're good. Um. I think that it's very much
Speaker 1: in line with what's going on in hip hop in general.
Speaker 1: You know, you have you have your artists who, um
Speaker 1: remain closer to the core of hip hop culture. You
Speaker 1: have your artists who are categorically pop music because hip
Speaker 1: hop is now the dominant genre, so it's pop anyway, right. Um.
Speaker 1: You have the artists to who mess with other genres
Speaker 1: and incorporate that into their their sound style. You know,
Speaker 1: you have you know, conscious artists, you have sex positive artists.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have a conscious sex positive artist. I mean,
Speaker 1: I it's just very much in line with what's going on.
Speaker 1: You know, there's there's a lot of there's a lot
Speaker 1: of everything. Because now we are given the luxury of
Speaker 1: having multiple women in the space, um, where it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily pointing it out like wow, look at all the ladies,
Speaker 1: Like it's not that's it's we around you know. Maybe
Speaker 1: like about two years ago, that was like the cool observation. Right,
Speaker 1: it's not an observation anymore. Now women are just women winning. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So who would you say is like or amongst some
Speaker 1: of your favorite contemporary female hip hop artists. Well, see,
Speaker 1: my contemporary for me is still some of the legends
Speaker 1: who are like still doing it like I'm doing it.
Speaker 1: I mean that that counts. I mean when I say contemporary,
Speaker 1: I just mean people who are still doing it. I
Speaker 1: don't mean somebody who's new, right, I mean I I
Speaker 1: love Little Kim like like up and down, you know,
Speaker 1: and I do, And I love Nicki minaj To Um,
Speaker 1: but I love Meg i Um. I love Rhapsody with
Speaker 1: all my heart and soul. Shout out to my sister Rhapsody.
Speaker 1: I there's It's funny because there's so many women now
Speaker 1: that cater to different parts of my personality and I
Speaker 1: love I love that we have that option again, like
Speaker 1: all this like diversity, Like I love No Name. Um,
Speaker 1: I love cash to Hall Drezy my girl. Shout out
Speaker 1: to Drezy and shout out to cash to. We've covered
Speaker 1: no Name like a lot of no no Um. I
Speaker 1: love Lotto too, but Lotto she's dope too, Like I think,
Speaker 1: like there's just there's a there's just I can listen now,
Speaker 1: I can listen with a different ear, even Ruby Rose,
Speaker 1: like I like it's you can you listen and you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you can hear the history and sometimes we don't. We
Speaker 1: don't think automatically when you listen to this, when you
Speaker 1: send the city girls, right I hear Trina, I hear
Speaker 1: Kim right, and I think that it's cool too. It's
Speaker 1: cool that that's happening, you know. And the thing that
Speaker 1: was also a really cool is in um Cardian Meg's
Speaker 1: wop video just all the other um women in hip
Speaker 1: hop that they had in there, like Suki Hana was
Speaker 1: in there, like there's it's just cool. Like what's happening
Speaker 1: right now is just dope. But I'm just I'm happy.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm happy that I can even hear a couple
Speaker 1: of songs and be like okay, like and be put
Speaker 1: on in ways that I might not have been. Like
Speaker 1: I that silhouette challenge is literally the way that I
Speaker 1: heard a Doja Cat song. Yeah, you know, and I
Speaker 1: don't you know, I know that there's a couple of
Speaker 1: other Doja Cat songs I've heard in the past, you know,
Speaker 1: um there's like the say so right, But when I
Speaker 1: heard her rapping on that, I was like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: kind of like a left eye flow, you know. You know,
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that because I
Speaker 1: think the left eye is truly underrated for how dope
Speaker 1: she was as a rapper. Left eye is everywhere, Like
Speaker 1: I when I hear Cardi B, I hear Left Eye,
Speaker 1: where that's I guess I never I never thought about
Speaker 1: the Left Eye CARDIV comparison. Left is one of my
Speaker 1: favorite UM female in season history, and nobody gives her
Speaker 1: the credit she deserves because she was That's exactly what
Speaker 1: I was gonna say. It's because you know it has
Speaker 1: that It's I mean, it's just when people think of TLC,
Speaker 1: they just they think of it as like an R
Speaker 1: and B or a pop group. So you know, people
Speaker 1: forget that just about every song, like Left Eye had
Speaker 1: at least twelve bars. I mean, I did a piece
Speaker 1: years back that TLC was the female public Enemy. Oh
Speaker 1: that's where a Left Eye was a combination of Chuck
Speaker 1: They and Flavor Flave. Okay, yeah, that that's that's that's baby.
Speaker 1: Baby Baby ruined our dreams of TLC being just a
Speaker 1: rap group with Left Eye at the forefront with the
Speaker 1: bars and Chilian Tea bas singing in the back. Is
Speaker 1: that what it was supposed to be? Well, Left I
Speaker 1: was UM. Tebows and Left I were the first two
Speaker 1: members right UM and then there was a third girl
Speaker 1: named Crystal, and I didn't work out with Crystal, so
Speaker 1: It's the reason why Chili her real name is Rosanda.
Speaker 1: It's the reason why her first name it doesn't have
Speaker 1: the same letter like Tien t Bas Lisa, left Eye, Chili, Crystal.
Speaker 1: You know. But it was it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's why Rosonda, like you know, she joined the Fold later.
Speaker 1: That's why I did. I had no I like, I
Speaker 1: didn't even know that that was because now that I
Speaker 1: think about it, I just think about how dope that
Speaker 1: would be and somebody should try to do that, like
Speaker 1: a group like that. But where the rappers the lead man?
Speaker 1: You know, Um, the Fujis have four members originally, um,
Speaker 1: a fourth girl named Marcy. No, I didn't know, but yeah,
Speaker 1: and then Marcy left and then it just became white
Speaker 1: and Lauren. Oh man, did she before they blew up?
Speaker 1: I mean, do you remember Marcy? I hope she's well,
Speaker 1: you know, but yeah, yeah, Marcy might have actually been
Speaker 1: there before Lauren because Lauren's brother, Molani, he was the
Speaker 1: one who I think brought her because he knew Whack
Speaker 1: left and Proz. I think that's how the story went.
Speaker 1: I heard something about a con was supposed to be
Speaker 1: a member, but he got locked up. Thus locked up
Speaker 1: so he wasn't there or something like that. I mean, anyway,
Speaker 1: that would have been a cool group. That really would
Speaker 1: have been like a supergroup in hindsight. Um, so do
Speaker 1: you do you see us being at a point where
Speaker 1: maybe like four or five years down the line, maybe
Speaker 1: you know, the dominant most popular form of rap is
Speaker 1: you know, female rap, and that there's like that's like
Speaker 1: the the game, that's been the game, but people are
Speaker 1: just afraid to say it. So it's in five years
Speaker 1: from now, maybe they'll be the most will litill be
Speaker 1: more comfortable? Right? Women have have tapped into every single
Speaker 1: part of you know, hip hop society. I mean, for
Speaker 1: god's sakes, find me a male rapper who has a
Speaker 1: piece of political history like the Sister Soldier moment. They
Speaker 1: don't have that. You know, we women have hip hop
Speaker 1: have tapped into every single aspect of everything. And in
Speaker 1: this even this year, the most controversy because you know,
Speaker 1: hip hop causes controversy, but what's the most controversy wop? Literally? Right?
Speaker 1: You know, so no women women are at the top,
Speaker 1: like that's it's it's a because most of the dudes, like, um,
Speaker 1: a lot of the men are are singing now I'm
Speaker 1: calling it wrap. You know. So if we're talking about
Speaker 1: someone who's just literally straight spitting, it's women. It's not men,
Speaker 1: because when women do the same meaning thing, they become
Speaker 1: an R and B artist. Lauren Hill, I mean, I
Speaker 1: gave her two chapters in my book. She's the only
Speaker 1: artist outside of Roxyne Shante that has two chapters in
Speaker 1: my book. You know, Lauren Lauren Hill. For me, I
Speaker 1: became a Lauren Hill fan. I had a I have
Speaker 1: a very specific story of why I even how I
Speaker 1: came to no Lauren Hill's music. Um. So one of
Speaker 1: my friends when I was growing up and in grammar school,
Speaker 1: I was like seventh grade, eighth grade. It was like
Speaker 1: it was right before Sister Act two, so it sustract.
Speaker 1: He was like nine two. So we're talking so um,
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, his cousin with somebody in the
Speaker 1: Grand Puba's squad, Like, I want to maybe dj Alamo,
Speaker 1: somebody like somebody in that um collective an He said
Speaker 1: to me, he was like, you know there's um there's
Speaker 1: a female wrapper, a rapper coming out of New Jersey
Speaker 1: and they call her l And I was like really
Speaker 1: because I was just getting into you know, hip hop
Speaker 1: at that that time, it was like I was one
Speaker 1: to two years off Ladies first. It was before actually
Speaker 1: before TLC because TELC was ninety two, and um he
Speaker 1: was like yeah, he's like and she's really good and
Speaker 1: I have this like tape and you know, and played
Speaker 1: me some rough and it was when Lauren was doing
Speaker 1: that you know that that bouf bab like that like
Speaker 1: that kind of like that weird like you know, like
Speaker 1: when why like why Cleff wasn't instructing her cadence And
Speaker 1: I was like, but um, but it was it was
Speaker 1: that kind of but I was still like, oh, like
Speaker 1: cool right and then um, his like I was just
Speaker 1: always keeping up with what was going on with Lauren Hill,
Speaker 1: with the Lady they call l Which is really funny
Speaker 1: because if you listen to the Ladies in the House,
Speaker 1: um big cap song at the end when they're doing
Speaker 1: the the role call and it was like Bahamadia unique
Speaker 1: and it was and they go through each other precise
Speaker 1: and they're like and the lady they call L and
Speaker 1: like they that's what they literally call her. And that's
Speaker 1: how I came. That's how I was introduced to her.
Speaker 1: The Lady they call L right, and then you know,
Speaker 1: since she was he was like, yeah, she's going to
Speaker 1: be in a movie. And I was a Sister Act fan.
Speaker 1: We were we were in Catholic school, so I was
Speaker 1: a Distract fan and then you know, I um for
Speaker 1: some of our younger listeners. Lauren Hill was in Sister
Speaker 1: Act too. It was way before your time, don't worry
Speaker 1: about it. So they're scene in Distract Too where Lauren
Speaker 1: Hill comes out into the playground like I got the flow.
Speaker 1: I got the flow, and then she you know the
Speaker 1: here I go on the microphone about to wreck it right,
Speaker 1: and it was like I know that whole do you
Speaker 1: want to hear? It was crazy. So there's a part
Speaker 1: where she goes but if Bi Bopara's want to rocket
Speaker 1: kicks some monk or some miles. It's because of that
Speaker 1: verse that I started listening to Thelonious Monk. Lauren Hell
Speaker 1: put me onto every other artist anything that Lauren Hill mentioned.
Speaker 1: I listened to, Um, I'll be Nina Simone and defecating
Speaker 1: on your microphone. I started listening to Nina Simone. But
Speaker 1: it's because Lauren read so much and listen to so
Speaker 1: much and learned about so much. So when you listen
Speaker 1: to the lyrics, they almost sound like they're contradicting each other,
Speaker 1: but Lauren makes the through line the cathic thank you
Speaker 1: for talking with me. UM, what do you what? What
Speaker 1: do you have coming up or going on right now?
Speaker 1: It's funny you should say that I'm holding So I
Speaker 1: have moll My book God Saved the Queen's is out
Speaker 1: now on paperback UM and then on August. Uh, baby
Speaker 1: Girl better known as Aliyah, I can't show that in that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's coming out in August seventeen. It's on the life
Speaker 1: of Aliyah and UM. I actually in November have UM
Speaker 1: an oracle card deck that I designed with the amazing
Speaker 1: Monica Hanna. Now and it's the Hip Hop Queen's Oracle Deck,
Speaker 1: where I've taken the women from God Save the Queen's
Speaker 1: as well as UM other prominent like hip hop adjacent
Speaker 1: women like Mary J. Blige, you know, UM another artist
Speaker 1: Aliyah and UM we made an oracle card deck and
Speaker 1: I wrote the guide book so that you can pull
Speaker 1: a card and based on the attributes of the artists
Speaker 1: in their career, like you can get like your your
Speaker 1: intention for the day. And then I have another big,
Speaker 1: major project that um is going to be announced soon.
Speaker 1: But um, where can people find you? Um, I'm across
Speaker 1: all social media platforms at CAT three thousand k A
Speaker 1: t H three zero zero zero. Yeah, thank you for
Speaker 1: talking with Thanks for having me. Oh yeah, this has
Speaker 1: been really dope. So that is it for us this week.
Speaker 1: We will be back next week and it will I
Speaker 1: have a feeling next week is probably gonna be pretty
Speaker 1: pretty heavy whatever. Whatever, it's been a long time. We
Speaker 1: shouldn't have left you without a deb beat the step
Speaker 1: two Hey yo, Joe, drop that yeah on, I don't
Speaker 1: even know what y'all. Uh wait, no reparation. We wain't
Speaker 1: no reparation, yeo. This this is flex beat. See you
Speaker 1: next week. Listen to the rats first, don't just leave.
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning it. Can't wait to do again.
Speaker 1: That was a proven when freestyle of use of pen.
Speaker 1: I go from Frodo to Green Street, who again? African
Speaker 1: and Toto please don't fool with him. Cops on my tail,
Speaker 1: but I think that I'm losing them in its record
Speaker 1: heat outside, so I use a swim. Oh, I think
Speaker 1: it's in my reach. That's what I'm doing. I'm see
Speaker 1: you on next week. I'm gonna end this ship. I
Speaker 1: don't even have to speak. Take my black ass right
Speaker 1: to Savannah Beach peace. I'm dope. Night. We are Waiting
Speaker 1: on Reparations. See you next week. Listen to Waiting on
Speaker 1: Reparations on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts