WEBVTT - Selects: Frida Kahlo: Painter, Icon, Genius 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.600 Hi, folks, is Chuck here, and it's Saturday, and that 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:06.480 means it's time for a select episode that we curate 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:10.879 by hand and brain and mouth. This one is about 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.080 one of my favorite painters of all time, one of 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:16.880 my family's favorite painters. My wife Emily loves fred to Carlo, 0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.600 my daughter loves Free to Carlo. We have two giant 0:00:21.160 --> 0:00:24.640 hand painted reproductions on canvas of two of our favorite 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:27.280 Free to Carlos hanging in our sunroom. And one day 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.400 we are finally, finally going to go down to Kasa 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:33.720 Azul and see where Freda lived and worked, because that 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:35.600 is on the bucket list and it's going to happen. 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:41.520 So check out this podcast episode about this iconic genius 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:48.680 artist of a woman, Free to Carlo Colon painter, icon genius. 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:56.960 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:06.280 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.320 and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Rowland. 0:01:10.560 --> 0:01:12.760 It's going to be an interesting one because I don't 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.080 know how to say the ladies last name. Jerry's over 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:19.119 there with her spider monkey on her shoulder, a dead 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.560 hummingbird hanging from her necklace just like any other day. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:26.880 We're here in Laasa Azul, right, and she's gotten ahold 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.640 of some eyebrow pencil and filled in between the two 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.760 across the bridge of her nose. So I'm excited about this. 0:01:34.520 --> 0:01:38.840 A because you said Freda Calo before we started recording 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:44.200 Frida Kayla, and B because you know my family's fascination 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:48.120 with this woman in her work. No, we've talked about 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:50.440 it before. That's okay. Though we've done a thousand episodes, 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.760 we have talked about it before. Yeah, okay, well we'll 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.600 get back into it. Yeah, we're way into Frieda. Emily 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:00.720 is borderline obsessed. Is she a freedom mania? She is? 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.680 And my daughter loves her. You know, there's like Freda 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:07.400 I hate to use the word, but kind of cults 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:13.040 devotional groups where um they basically dress up and and 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:18.480 are like Frieda. It's like channel Frieda Kalo. Yeah, because 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.520 as one of these articles that we source from points 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.520 out near the end um, not only does she draw 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:29.359 in people for her art, but she draws in feminists, 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:34.799 and she draws in women who have suffered miscarriages and 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:39.080 and disabled people who have suffered great pain and chronic 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:43.200 pain in their life. So she through her life, she's 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.800 able to um touch a lot of people because of 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.880 her life. And I'm sure with any artist where if 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:51.760 you know, the more you know about the artist, the 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:56.080 more you can appreciate their art. Sure, with Freda Kalo, 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.120 it's almost like you gotta quit saying that Frieda Kalo 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:04.160 calo colo my whole life. I've been saying free to Kayla, 0:03:04.440 --> 0:03:06.320 and I like it rolls off the tongue. Yeah, but 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:09.600 you know, let's give her the due respect. Um the 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.880 when did we start doing that? I don't know? Okay, 0:03:13.040 --> 0:03:18.320 so um, you almost you just almost can't fully appreciate 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.720 any piece of her work without knowing at least the 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.080 basics of her story. I think, well, yeah, and certainly 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:27.639 once you know the basics, you're like, oh right, that's 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.960 where all this comes from. It really makes sense. But 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.640 she is a great artist, for sure. I was going 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.360 back and looking at some of her art, and you know, 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:38.640 I'm familiar with her, I know a little bit about her, um, 0:03:38.680 --> 0:03:41.080 but I definitely saw some pieces that I didn't realize before. 0:03:41.080 --> 0:03:43.800 And just from researching this, I very much came to 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.280 appreciate her even more. Like she's a great artist. Just 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:50.880 the technique she used, the imagery she used, the symbolism, 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.600 I really dig it all and it's like you can 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:58.080 appreciate it because it gives you a visceral reaction, but you, 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.240 the average person can also get what she's feeling or 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.880 what she's saying without being like this means this, and 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:07.800 that means that she just kind of get it visually. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.800 It's something that you can get and appreciate pretty easily. Yeah, 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.040 I mean, we've we've seen her work in museums all 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.640 over the world. Basically every new city we go to, 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:22.359 we see, is there any free to color work there? 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.440 Have you been to Lakasa Zul No? But that'll that's 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.400 that's gonna happen. Oh, I'm sure I was gonna say 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.080 bucket list, but it's just on the list. I'm like, 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:31.720 I don't want to do it when I'm eighty, right 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.120 with with um Jack Nicholson or something. No, Morgan Freeman, No, no, no, 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.640 We're gonna go down there for sure. Alright, So let's 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:42.040 let's start chronologically. Let's start at the beginning. That makes sense, 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.839 so free to klo Um. She was born back in 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:49.240 nineteen o seven, although she used to being a revolutionary. 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:51.320 She used to say that she was born in nineteen ten, 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.839 which was the year of the Mexican Revolution. But she 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:56.680 was born in a town which was very free to yeah, 0:04:57.480 --> 0:04:59.680 free to call thing to do. Right. Um, she was 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.640 born a town called Koyoa Khan which is outside of 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.560 Mexico City. And she was born in that house, Lacasa 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.719 Zul the Blue House. Yeah. Maybe maybe not there. There's 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.440 a lot of um parts of her early life, like 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.320 the year she was born where other people say, like, 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:19.080 she's actually born nearby, but she says she was born there, 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.680 so uh, like her birth records indicated different place, but 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.480 it's we'll say she was born there. At the very 0:05:26.560 --> 0:05:29.320 least it was her family's house, right. Oh, and she 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.920 it was. It was in her life for her whole life, 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:36.160 so much so she actually died in that house. Yeah. 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.080 And it's a museum now, yes it is. It's a 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.760 national museum dedicated to Free to Carlo. Pretty cool. We 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.560 can visit, right. So, Um, she was born in nineteen 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.479 o seven, they've figured out, apparently you figured out and 0:05:48.520 --> 0:05:51.840 her father was a German or Hungarian because I saw both. Well, 0:05:52.279 --> 0:05:57.360 here's another little thing where oh boys, he was German. 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.120 He was born in Germany, but Freed always said that 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:03.599 he was of Hungarian Jewish descent. But that just doesn't 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:08.240 appear to be true like ancestry genealogy records. So was 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:14.320 he like German Protestant or something? Uh? German? Um? Uh? 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:18.599 What Lutheran? Lutheran? I think that's Protestant. I think I 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:20.760 think so. But I think I think it was Lutheran. 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:25.719 I can't remember. But his name, depending on it was 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.800 Carl Wilhelm. But when he traveled to Mexico in the 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.480 late eighteen hundreds, he changed his name. He took the translation, 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.800 the Spanish translation was original German name, which would have 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:41.960 been Guillermo. Apparently it's a great name. Yeah. And then 0:06:42.839 --> 0:06:48.200 he became a Mexican citizen and married her mother, Matilda Calderon, 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:51.960 who was um American Indian in Spanish. Yeah, and we 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:56.520 should say Frieda. Frieda's full name is Magdalena Carmen Frieda Calo. 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.279 He called her own great name. It is really there's 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:05.719 a lot to it there. Basically gives you everything you want. Right. So, um, 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:09.039 she was born and when someone else I came to 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.760 admire from researching her as her father. He seemed to 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:13.920 have been a pretty cool cat. He was a really 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:19.400 good dad. Her mom was a little bits religiously hysterical 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.440 I think, and very strict, but her dad was a 0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:27.840 bit of a foil in that he raised Frieda. He 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:31.960 noticed something in Freda. It seems that she was different 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.920 from her sister's, which she screamed, I mean just like 0:07:35.040 --> 0:07:37.240 she dressed in men's suits and things like that. She's 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:40.160 definitely different than her sister's. But he saw in her 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.320 something very much different than her sisters, not just in 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:45.920 her outward behavior. And so he kind of plucked her 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:50.480 out of the path that his sisters were on, which was, 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.920 you know, go get married, or go being educated into convent, 0:07:55.120 --> 0:07:58.240 Go get married, go be a wife, and said, you 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.280 you're going to go a different path. Let's get you 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.080 in a different school here. Yeah. He was a photographer, 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:08.400 so her first experiences with art were accompanying him on 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:11.160 photo shoots and being in the studio with him. And 0:08:11.320 --> 0:08:13.520 like you said, he sent her to the German College 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:19.200 in Mexico City, where she was introduced to European things, 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:24.320 and um, very sadly, she was sexually abused there, uh, 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.880 and then ended up going to and I think was 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:31.160 one of the first, one of only thirty five girls, 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.439 young girls to go to the National Preparatory School in 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.199 Mexico because that was right around the time in the 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.480 Mexican Revolution. He said, maybe we should start letting young 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:43.400 women in here. Yeah, and then she wanted to be 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.200 a doctor. Yeah. She excelled in in biology and some 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.240 others in Mozana path to become a doctor. Actually, but 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.440 one of the other things that she discovered at the 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:57.640 UM the Preparatory Academy of Mexico City was a real 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:03.080 zeal for the Mexican revolutionary spirit. Yeah. I mean not 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.720 only did she learn about Europe, but she got really 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.440 into learning about her indigenous roots. Um. That seems to 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.080 be something that fascinated her throughout her life. Yeah, for sure, 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.080 was her her European in her Mexican roots and how 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.440 they combined in her and she explored them outwardly as well. 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:22.840 She even had a painting called roots. Oh yeah, kind 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:26.040 of on the nose, uh and roots were growing out 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:30.480 of her body even um we we kind of skipped 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.000 over one very important thing in her life. When she 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:38.920 was six, Um, she contracted polio and long recovery permanently 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:41.040 damaged one of her legs. She had a very one 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:43.560 of her legs was I think her right leg was 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.280 smaller and just very skinny, a little withered. Yeah, and 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.760 she had a permanent limp from that age, which was 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.360 a big deal. It was just the beginning of a 0:09:53.600 --> 0:10:00.280 lifetime of pretty horrendous um physical disabilities and pain. She 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.520 was alive on the planet for forty seven years and 0:10:03.640 --> 0:10:07.440 starting at age six. You say that's when Poli she 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.400 that's when it began, at the at the at the latest. 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.040 It started at six and continued all the way up 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.079 to forty seven when she died. So at the in 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:22.199 this kind of revolutionary group that she joined, um the cuchus, 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:25.839 which means the caps are the hats, which apparently today 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:32.200 is Narco slang for cops into yeah, catchukastchas. It's hard 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:37.760 to say yeah because of the two. Is it's like 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:42.840 Jason's coming or something. Um. She she fell in love 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:45.440 with kind of the leader of that group, but really 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:49.400 like she found herself as a revolutionary, right and not 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:53.760 just a Mexican revolutionary. She also became a communist ideologist 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.480 and was for life. That's one thing that they a 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.840 lot of people don't realize is free to free to Carlo, 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:03.640 this pop culture icon, this patron saint of of women, 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:10.040 um and feminists, was also very much a fervent communist. Actually, 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.040 she referred to her husband later, Diego Rivera, who you're 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.840 about to mention um as nobody's husband. He was a 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.720 lousy husband, but he was a great comrade. This is 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:23.319 a great quote. Yeah, so Ine, that's when she fell 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:27.920 in love with Alejandro Gomez Eddias and uh they were 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.679 together for about five years. And we'll get to kind 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:33.280 of what happened towards the end of that relationship in 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.240 a sec But in two and she was just fifteen. 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.440 She was at school, uh, at the preparatory school. And 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.960 Diego Rivera, who was very famous artist, a muralist at 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:48.719 the time, already this giant man um like Alfred Molina's 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.800 eye that's who played him, Um, even bigger, I think. Yeah. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.520 He was huge. Uh and you know, just tall and 0:11:55.640 --> 0:12:02.760 rotund and just a big personality and everything like Edward Herman. Sure. Yeah. Um. 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.600 He was painting a mural at her school called Creation 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:07.719 when she was just fifteen, and she would go out 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.600 there and just basically kind of stare at him and 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.600 while he was doing his work and sort of became 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:19.120 infatuated with him and the art. I get the picture 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:23.000 that it was all sort of intertwined, and uh, you know, 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.840 years later they would meet and marry and then remarry, 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:29.160 which we'll get into the ins and outs of their relationship, 0:12:29.240 --> 0:12:32.960 but it was it was an interesting love story of 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.480 sorts artists. You know, should we take a break? All right, 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:39.719 let's take a break and we will talk about the 0:12:39.920 --> 0:13:05.360 the tragic events that befell her at the age of eighteen. Okay, Chuck, So, 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.560 like you said, something really bad is about to happen 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.240 to Frida. She's eighteen. She was on a bus with 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:15.520 a boyfriend who was the leader of the Yeah, and um, 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.760 they the bus was struck by a trolley or vice versa. 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.560 She was on a trolley struck by a bus, one 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.559 of the two in either way. It was a bad, 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:29.720 bad scene for her. Yeah, she was impaled by one 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:32.680 of the handlebars. It went through pelvis into her womb, 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:36.559 that's how I saw it. Put broke her spine. Um, 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.960 she was in a bad way, and supposedly her boyfriend 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:44.280 walked away unharmed, which just makes it even worse. You know. Yeah, 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.640 I mean the way I got it was that, you know, 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.400 everyone was shaking up pretty bad, but it was this 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:54.760 sort of freak thing that this rail impaled her hip 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.400 that that she got the worst of it. And this 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.920 would go on to be, in my opinion, the most 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:05.480 significant event of her entire life, because it would it 0:14:05.559 --> 0:14:08.840 changed everything. It changed the course of everything. Remember, up 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.200 to this point, she's planning on becoming a doctor. UM, 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:15.320 and she was so laid up for so long and 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.040 so immobilized that she basically said, well, there goes my 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:21.120 chance of being a doctor. I'm not going to be 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:22.720 able to catch up. I'm not gonna be able to move. 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.960 Who knows if I'll be able to walk again. Um, 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.360 And it just shifted direction. Plus that whole womb thing 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.440 is going to come into play later on and that 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:35.880 will definitely influence her art for sure too. Yeah. So 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.960 she's um, she's bedridden for months. I think she had 0:14:40.880 --> 0:14:44.400 something like thirteen or fifteen surgeries from that point on 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:49.400 for the next like thirty years. UM. And it turns 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.280 out that she was a great painter, which must have 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:56.160 been something to be like, well, I'm in this hospital 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.440 bed that they're equipping me with this special easel that 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.960 I can use in my full body casts lying down. 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.440 They're gonna put a mirror on on the ceiling above 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.200 me so I can be my own model. And she 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.720 was very much known for her self portraits. And she 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:18.480 starts painting and is amazingly talented. Yeah, And at first 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:20.560 she she was saying, Okay, well, I can't be a doctor, 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.040 and apparently I have this knack for painting. Maybe I'll 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.960 be a medical illustrator. And once you hear that, when 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.240 you see some of her work, you're like, oh, yeah, 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.320 she basically was a medical illustrator. Yeah, but in a 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:38.600 exploring anatomy as a metaphor for emotion. Yes, from what 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:42.240 I understand, right, Yeah, I mean I don't know, I 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.120 mean this might be hyperbolic to say this, but I 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:50.600 don't know if any artists that poured herself out on 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.520 the canvas as much as she did. Certainly not up 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:58.240 to the point, especially female artists. Oh yeah, absolutely, up 0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:02.080 to this point when when free Callo came along, like 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:06.760 women were if you were emotional, you were hysterical one. 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.640 But you certainly weren't if you were a woman artist, 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:14.040 you certainly weren't expected to explore emotions and grief and 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:19.000 personhood and the self. And you certainly weren't expected to 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.400 do it in your paintings, And she said her works 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.360 showed that that was not the case. It wasn't even 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.080 like you shouldn't do this, it was women can't do this. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.840 And she came along and said, and actually we can, 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.120 because I'm living proof. Yeah. And if you're a man, 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:38.760 you're just a brooding artist. If you're a woman, you're hysterical. Um, 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:42.040 you're depressed. And she just man, she laid it out 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:46.160 there as raw as you could imagine, and especially for 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:49.160 the time, it was just off the charts how radical 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.880 it was. Right, so so, and she's able to do 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.440 this because her family set up a special easel in 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.960 a mirror for her to be her own model. Right, yes, 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:00.960 so this is that, this big thing like this is 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.479 starting to come along and she she um passes the 0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.760 time while she's recuperating doing this, and she recovers enough 0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:09.680 that she goes back to school and starts hanging out 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:13.800 with her old friends again, and from that re entry 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:18.520 back into the revolutionary slash communist world in Mexico at 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:22.360 the time, she ended up in the orbit of Diego 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:26.160 Rivera again. Actually they ran across each other at a party. Yeah, 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.600 and this was it. Man. From that point forward, they 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:32.439 would be um. They would be tied to one another 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:37.240 through their work and through their multiple marriages to one another. Uh. 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:42.040 She was twenty two, he was twenty years older than her. Uh. 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.959 And he very much um he may he very much 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:49.679 encouraged her early on yea and champion her and was 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.080 her mentors and artists. Was. She went up to him 0:17:52.119 --> 0:17:54.480 at at this party and said, I want you to 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.240 look at my work and tell me should I pursue it? 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:01.159 To this? Am I an artist? Or is just nothing? 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.520 And he looked at her work and he said, you 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:07.840 were an artist? This is astounding, Like do you have 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.320 what it takes? And you should keep pursuing being an 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:13.160 artist in as a matter of fact, let's get married. Yeah. 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:15.359 I mean he was attracted to her, but um, I 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.159 haven't seen anything that that led me to believe that 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.760 any of his support of her work was not genuine. 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.320 And because he wanted to get her in the sack. No, no, no, 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:26.600 he wasn't that kind of guy. He would get anybody 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:28.479 in the sack. He certainly didn't have to marry you, 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:30.199 and he certainly didn't have to tell you were a 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.160 great artist that is below him. I saw a thing. 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:36.600 They both had multiple affairs. We'll talk about that throughout 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.919 their marriage, and you know, maybe or maybe not so 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.760 understanding of each other doing so. Um, but I saw 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.359 one point that he supposedly got his doctor to write 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.479 a note that said that he was physically incapable of 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:56.120 being faithful. Really, I don't know if that's true or not. 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:58.680 So he had I just want to get this quote, 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:01.720 and he had a great quote of about her um 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.480 as an artist. He said that she was a realist 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.920 as far as her arts concerned. She was quote the 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:10.600 first woman in the history of art to treat with 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:15.080 absolute and uncompromising honesty. One might even say cruelty those 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:19.439 general and specific themes which exclusively affect women. Yeah, like 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:22.320 that's those are pretty strong words from a renowned artist 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.800 who I mean, Diego Rivera was well renowned by this 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:27.399 time already, So when he looked at her art and 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.400 had things like that to say about it, it really 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.520 meant something. She was. If she ever was an outsider artist, 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.440 she wasn't anymore. She was a genuine artist. She'd been 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:39.920 decreed as such by the cream of the crop. Yeah, 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.960 and she Um. I think the article on her own 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:47.159 website downplays a little bit her successes during her life. 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.800 It's certainly nothing compared to what she got many many 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.040 years later, decades later after her death. Um, they weren't 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.760 freedom maniacs back then, but she wasn't. She also was 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:02.119 not just completely unknown as an artist. I mean, she 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.840 got some notoriety during her life. She got to know Picasso, 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:07.920 she got to know I mean, these were the circles 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:12.119 she traveled in, partially because of Diego Rivera. But um, 0:20:12.160 --> 0:20:16.119 they started moving around, you know, starting in the nineteen thirties. Uh, 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.200 they didn't stay in Mexico. They lived in San Francisco 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:20.879 for a little while, uh, depending on where the work was. 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.080 Because he was a muralist, right, so he had to 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.359 go to the place where he was doing. Yeah, exactly. 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:27.479 He can't say, I'm gonna send you a mural, just 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.679 tape tape it up, send me a wall. And he 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:34.600 had her in tow which I get the impression like 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.480 sometimes she was a willing accomplice and other times she 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:41.200 was very much homesick for Mexico. Yeah, she for sure 0:20:41.200 --> 0:20:45.479 miss Mexico. I know she did enjoy her time in 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:46.920 like in New York and said, I don't know if 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:50.720 she loved Detroit. I don't know if anybody didn't. They 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.000 moved to Detroit while he worked for the Detroit Institute 0:20:53.040 --> 0:20:56.280 for the Arts, but very famously in the nineteen thirties 0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:58.800 they lived in New York City when Diego Rivero was 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.600 commissioned by Nelson rocket Feller, who in the movie The 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:05.360 Great Movie by Julie Taymore and Samahayak was played by 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:10.240 Edward Norton. Oh yeah, have you not seen that movie? Man? 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.639 It's good and once you hear the uh, especially with 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:17.880 the backstory now with the Weinstein stuff coming out, I mean, 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:21.480 this was her passion, Salamahayaks passion project for her life, 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:26.240 and uh, he put her through a living hell. It's horrifying. 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:27.600 I think it was. It might have been a New 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:29.560 York or New York Times had a great article about it. 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.520 But um or that she wrote, I think, But um, 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:34.760 I think what got me on that was Edward Norton. 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.800 Was he he rewrote the script for Like for Free 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:42.200 because basically one of Harvey's picks things was like, I'm 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:44.439 not gonna give you any money for this, Like you 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.280 gotta do it for almost nothing. Everyone's gonna have to 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:49.639 work for free. So she got everyone to work for 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:53.000 free or you know scale uh. From Edward Norton to 0:21:53.119 --> 0:21:56.960 Julie Tamore, the great director and um, he he demanded 0:21:57.000 --> 0:22:02.720 a lesbian sex scene, like literally was like, I'm not 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:06.080 doing this unless you do that. And she was bisexual, 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:08.560 so it wasn't like he created this out of thin air, 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:11.840 but he's like, I want to see this on screen. Um. 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.399 She supposedly had affairs with George O'Keefe and Josephine Baker 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.920 and all these famous female performers and artists, but she 0:22:20.200 --> 0:22:22.240 did not do that. I think she. I think she 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:24.439 had a kissing scene with Ashley Judd at a party. 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.200 Who is actually Judd supposed to be? I can't remember. 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:30.960 I haven't seen it in a minute. Emily's mad that 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:33.199 she's not here right now. I told her about this 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:34.720 last night and she's like, why am I not honest? 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:38.760 Like we don't have guests. She's like, I'm a guest 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:40.439 on Movie Crush. I was like, well that's a different 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:45.199 podcast altogether. Yeah, Um, she will pick this apart, trust me. 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:47.520 But anyway, she had a devil of a time getting 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:49.440 that movie made. Uh, and it went on to great 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:53.160 success and I think still is the highest grossing art 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:55.800 based movie of all time. Yeah, that's what I saw. Ye. 0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.840 So anyway, they were in New York City because Nelson Rockefeller, 0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:04.320 displayed Byward Norton, had commissioned Diego Rivera to paint a 0:23:04.440 --> 0:23:08.160 mural at Rockefeller Center called Man at the Crossroads. And 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:12.679 in it it was one of these big um almost 0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.760 looked like a Sergeant Pepper's cover, you know, people all 0:23:15.800 --> 0:23:19.960 over the place. And um, he snuck in Vladimir Lenin 0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:22.720 in the painting. So I have a question about that. 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:24.679 Did he sneak it in it was caught or was 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.080 he like And also, by the way, I've included this 0:23:27.119 --> 0:23:32.320 great man Lenin. He snuck it in um as a response, uh, 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:36.000 as a very pointed response to something. And I can't 0:23:36.000 --> 0:23:39.280 remember exactly what it was, but it wasn't originally in 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:40.560 the plan and I don't know if it was in 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:43.200 the original sketch. I might be getting this slightly wrong, 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:47.000