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Speaker 1: Hi, folks, is Chuck here, and it's Saturday, and that

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Speaker 1: means it's time for a select episode that we curate

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Speaker 1: by hand and brain and mouth. This one is about

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Speaker 1: one of my favorite painters of all time, one of

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Speaker 1: my family's favorite painters. My wife Emily loves fred to Carlo,

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Speaker 1: my daughter loves Free to Carlo. We have two giant

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Speaker 1: hand painted reproductions on canvas of two of our favorite

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Speaker 1: Free to Carlos hanging in our sunroom. And one day

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Speaker 1: we are finally, finally going to go down to Kasa

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Speaker 1: Azul and see where Freda lived and worked, because that

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Speaker 1: is on the bucket list and it's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: So check out this podcast episode about this iconic genius

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Speaker 1: artist of a woman, Free to Carlo Colon painter, icon genius.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark,

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Speaker 1: and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry Rowland.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be an interesting one because I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to say the ladies last name. Jerry's over

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Speaker 1: there with her spider monkey on her shoulder, a dead

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Speaker 1: hummingbird hanging from her necklace just like any other day.

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Speaker 1: We're here in Laasa Azul, right, and she's gotten ahold

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Speaker 1: of some eyebrow pencil and filled in between the two

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Speaker 1: across the bridge of her nose. So I'm excited about this.

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Speaker 1: A because you said Freda Calo before we started recording

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Speaker 1: Frida Kayla, and B because you know my family's fascination

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Speaker 1: with this woman in her work. No, we've talked about

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Speaker 1: it before. That's okay. Though we've done a thousand episodes,

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Speaker 1: we have talked about it before. Yeah, okay, well we'll

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Speaker 1: get back into it. Yeah, we're way into Frieda. Emily

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Speaker 1: is borderline obsessed. Is she a freedom mania? She is?

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Speaker 1: And my daughter loves her. You know, there's like Freda

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Speaker 1: I hate to use the word, but kind of cults

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Speaker 1: devotional groups where um they basically dress up and and

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Speaker 1: are like Frieda. It's like channel Frieda Kalo. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: as one of these articles that we source from points

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Speaker 1: out near the end um, not only does she draw

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Speaker 1: in people for her art, but she draws in feminists,

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Speaker 1: and she draws in women who have suffered miscarriages and

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Speaker 1: and disabled people who have suffered great pain and chronic

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Speaker 1: pain in their life. So she through her life, she's

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Speaker 1: able to um touch a lot of people because of

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Speaker 1: her life. And I'm sure with any artist where if

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Speaker 1: you know, the more you know about the artist, the

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Speaker 1: more you can appreciate their art. Sure, with Freda Kalo,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like you gotta quit saying that Frieda Kalo

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Speaker 1: calo colo my whole life. I've been saying free to Kayla,

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Speaker 1: and I like it rolls off the tongue. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: you know, let's give her the due respect. Um the

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Speaker 1: when did we start doing that? I don't know? Okay,

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Speaker 1: so um, you almost you just almost can't fully appreciate

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Speaker 1: any piece of her work without knowing at least the

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Speaker 1: basics of her story. I think, well, yeah, and certainly

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Speaker 1: once you know the basics, you're like, oh right, that's

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Speaker 1: where all this comes from. It really makes sense. But

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Speaker 1: she is a great artist, for sure. I was going

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Speaker 1: back and looking at some of her art, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm familiar with her, I know a little bit about her, um,

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Speaker 1: but I definitely saw some pieces that I didn't realize before.

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Speaker 1: And just from researching this, I very much came to

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Speaker 1: appreciate her even more. Like she's a great artist. Just

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Speaker 1: the technique she used, the imagery she used, the symbolism,

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Speaker 1: I really dig it all and it's like you can

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Speaker 1: appreciate it because it gives you a visceral reaction, but you,

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Speaker 1: the average person can also get what she's feeling or

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Speaker 1: what she's saying without being like this means this, and

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Speaker 1: that means that she just kind of get it visually.

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Speaker 1: It's something that you can get and appreciate pretty easily. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we've we've seen her work in museums all

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Speaker 1: over the world. Basically every new city we go to,

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Speaker 1: we see, is there any free to color work there?

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Speaker 1: Have you been to Lakasa Zul No? But that'll that's

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Speaker 1: that's gonna happen. Oh, I'm sure I was gonna say

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Speaker 1: bucket list, but it's just on the list. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to do it when I'm eighty, right

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Speaker 1: with with um Jack Nicholson or something. No, Morgan Freeman, No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna go down there for sure. Alright, So let's

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Speaker 1: let's start chronologically. Let's start at the beginning. That makes sense,

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Speaker 1: so free to klo Um. She was born back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen o seven, although she used to being a revolutionary.

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Speaker 1: She used to say that she was born in nineteen ten,

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Speaker 1: which was the year of the Mexican Revolution. But she

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Speaker 1: was born in a town which was very free to yeah,

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Speaker 1: free to call thing to do. Right. Um, she was

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Speaker 1: born a town called Koyoa Khan which is outside of

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Speaker 1: Mexico City. And she was born in that house, Lacasa

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Speaker 1: Zul the Blue House. Yeah. Maybe maybe not there. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of um parts of her early life, like

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Speaker 1: the year she was born where other people say, like,

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Speaker 1: she's actually born nearby, but she says she was born there,

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Speaker 1: so uh, like her birth records indicated different place, but

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Speaker 1: it's we'll say she was born there. At the very

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Speaker 1: least it was her family's house, right. Oh, and she

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Speaker 1: it was. It was in her life for her whole life,

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Speaker 1: so much so she actually died in that house. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's a museum now, yes it is. It's a

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Speaker 1: national museum dedicated to Free to Carlo. Pretty cool. We

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Speaker 1: can visit, right. So, Um, she was born in nineteen

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Speaker 1: o seven, they've figured out, apparently you figured out and

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Speaker 1: her father was a German or Hungarian because I saw both. Well,

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Speaker 1: here's another little thing where oh boys, he was German.

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Speaker 1: He was born in Germany, but Freed always said that

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Speaker 1: he was of Hungarian Jewish descent. But that just doesn't

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Speaker 1: appear to be true like ancestry genealogy records. So was

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Speaker 1: he like German Protestant or something? Uh? German? Um? Uh?

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Speaker 1: What Lutheran? Lutheran? I think that's Protestant. I think I

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Speaker 1: think so. But I think I think it was Lutheran.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember. But his name, depending on it was

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Speaker 1: Carl Wilhelm. But when he traveled to Mexico in the

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Speaker 1: late eighteen hundreds, he changed his name. He took the translation,

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Speaker 1: the Spanish translation was original German name, which would have

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Speaker 1: been Guillermo. Apparently it's a great name. Yeah. And then

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Speaker 1: he became a Mexican citizen and married her mother, Matilda Calderon,

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Speaker 1: who was um American Indian in Spanish. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 1: should say Frieda. Frieda's full name is Magdalena Carmen Frieda Calo.

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Speaker 1: He called her own great name. It is really there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to it there. Basically gives you everything you want. Right. So, um,

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Speaker 1: she was born and when someone else I came to

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Speaker 1: admire from researching her as her father. He seemed to

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Speaker 1: have been a pretty cool cat. He was a really

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Speaker 1: good dad. Her mom was a little bits religiously hysterical

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Speaker 1: I think, and very strict, but her dad was a

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Speaker 1: bit of a foil in that he raised Frieda. He

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Speaker 1: noticed something in Freda. It seems that she was different

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Speaker 1: from her sister's, which she screamed, I mean just like

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Speaker 1: she dressed in men's suits and things like that. She's

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Speaker 1: definitely different than her sister's. But he saw in her

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Speaker 1: something very much different than her sisters, not just in

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Speaker 1: her outward behavior. And so he kind of plucked her

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Speaker 1: out of the path that his sisters were on, which was,

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Speaker 1: you know, go get married, or go being educated into convent,

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Speaker 1: Go get married, go be a wife, and said, you

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Speaker 1: you're going to go a different path. Let's get you

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Speaker 1: in a different school here. Yeah. He was a photographer,

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Speaker 1: so her first experiences with art were accompanying him on

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Speaker 1: photo shoots and being in the studio with him. And

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Speaker 1: like you said, he sent her to the German College

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Speaker 1: in Mexico City, where she was introduced to European things,

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Speaker 1: and um, very sadly, she was sexually abused there, uh,

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Speaker 1: and then ended up going to and I think was

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Speaker 1: one of the first, one of only thirty five girls,

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Speaker 1: young girls to go to the National Preparatory School in

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Speaker 1: Mexico because that was right around the time in the

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Speaker 1: Mexican Revolution. He said, maybe we should start letting young

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Speaker 1: women in here. Yeah, and then she wanted to be

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Speaker 1: a doctor. Yeah. She excelled in in biology and some

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Speaker 1: others in Mozana path to become a doctor. Actually, but

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Speaker 1: one of the other things that she discovered at the

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Speaker 1: UM the Preparatory Academy of Mexico City was a real

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Speaker 1: zeal for the Mexican revolutionary spirit. Yeah. I mean not

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Speaker 1: only did she learn about Europe, but she got really

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Speaker 1: into learning about her indigenous roots. Um. That seems to

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Speaker 1: be something that fascinated her throughout her life. Yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: was her her European in her Mexican roots and how

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Speaker 1: they combined in her and she explored them outwardly as well.

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Speaker 1: She even had a painting called roots. Oh yeah, kind

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Speaker 1: of on the nose, uh and roots were growing out

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Speaker 1: of her body even um we we kind of skipped

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Speaker 1: over one very important thing in her life. When she

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Speaker 1: was six, Um, she contracted polio and long recovery permanently

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Speaker 1: damaged one of her legs. She had a very one

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Speaker 1: of her legs was I think her right leg was

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Speaker 1: smaller and just very skinny, a little withered. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: she had a permanent limp from that age, which was

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Speaker 1: a big deal. It was just the beginning of a

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Speaker 1: lifetime of pretty horrendous um physical disabilities and pain. She

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Speaker 1: was alive on the planet for forty seven years and

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Speaker 1: starting at age six. You say that's when Poli she

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Speaker 1: that's when it began, at the at the at the latest.

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Speaker 1: It started at six and continued all the way up

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Speaker 1: to forty seven when she died. So at the in

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Speaker 1: this kind of revolutionary group that she joined, um the cuchus,

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Speaker 1: which means the caps are the hats, which apparently today

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Speaker 1: is Narco slang for cops into yeah, catchukastchas. It's hard

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Speaker 1: to say yeah because of the two. Is it's like

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Speaker 1: Jason's coming or something. Um. She she fell in love

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Speaker 1: with kind of the leader of that group, but really

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Speaker 1: like she found herself as a revolutionary, right and not

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Speaker 1: just a Mexican revolutionary. She also became a communist ideologist

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Speaker 1: and was for life. That's one thing that they a

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Speaker 1: lot of people don't realize is free to free to Carlo,

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Speaker 1: this pop culture icon, this patron saint of of women,

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Speaker 1: um and feminists, was also very much a fervent communist. Actually,

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Speaker 1: she referred to her husband later, Diego Rivera, who you're

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Speaker 1: about to mention um as nobody's husband. He was a

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Speaker 1: lousy husband, but he was a great comrade. This is

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Speaker 1: a great quote. Yeah, so Ine, that's when she fell

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Speaker 1: in love with Alejandro Gomez Eddias and uh they were

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Speaker 1: together for about five years. And we'll get to kind

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Speaker 1: of what happened towards the end of that relationship in

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Speaker 1: a sec But in two and she was just fifteen.

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Speaker 1: She was at school, uh, at the preparatory school. And

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Speaker 1: Diego Rivera, who was very famous artist, a muralist at

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Speaker 1: the time, already this giant man um like Alfred Molina's

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Speaker 1: eye that's who played him, Um, even bigger, I think. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He was huge. Uh and you know, just tall and

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Speaker 1: rotund and just a big personality and everything like Edward Herman. Sure. Yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was painting a mural at her school called Creation

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Speaker 1: when she was just fifteen, and she would go out

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Speaker 1: there and just basically kind of stare at him and

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Speaker 1: while he was doing his work and sort of became

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Speaker 1: infatuated with him and the art. I get the picture

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Speaker 1: that it was all sort of intertwined, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: years later they would meet and marry and then remarry,

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Speaker 1: which we'll get into the ins and outs of their relationship,

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Speaker 1: but it was it was an interesting love story of

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Speaker 1: sorts artists. You know, should we take a break? All right,

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Speaker 1: let's take a break and we will talk about the

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Speaker 1: the tragic events that befell her at the age of eighteen. Okay, Chuck, So,

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Speaker 1: like you said, something really bad is about to happen

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Speaker 1: to Frida. She's eighteen. She was on a bus with

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Speaker 1: a boyfriend who was the leader of the Yeah, and um,

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Speaker 1: they the bus was struck by a trolley or vice versa.

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Speaker 1: She was on a trolley struck by a bus, one

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Speaker 1: of the two in either way. It was a bad,

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Speaker 1: bad scene for her. Yeah, she was impaled by one

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Speaker 1: of the handlebars. It went through pelvis into her womb,

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Speaker 1: that's how I saw it. Put broke her spine. Um,

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Speaker 1: she was in a bad way, and supposedly her boyfriend

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Speaker 1: walked away unharmed, which just makes it even worse. You know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean the way I got it was that, you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone was shaking up pretty bad, but it was this

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Speaker 1: sort of freak thing that this rail impaled her hip

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Speaker 1: that that she got the worst of it. And this

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Speaker 1: would go on to be, in my opinion, the most

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Speaker 1: significant event of her entire life, because it would it

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Speaker 1: changed everything. It changed the course of everything. Remember, up

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Speaker 1: to this point, she's planning on becoming a doctor. UM,

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Speaker 1: and she was so laid up for so long and

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Speaker 1: so immobilized that she basically said, well, there goes my

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Speaker 1: chance of being a doctor. I'm not going to be

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Speaker 1: able to catch up. I'm not gonna be able to move.

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Speaker 1: Who knows if I'll be able to walk again. Um,

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Speaker 1: And it just shifted direction. Plus that whole womb thing

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Speaker 1: is going to come into play later on and that

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Speaker 1: will definitely influence her art for sure too. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: she's um, she's bedridden for months. I think she had

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Speaker 1: something like thirteen or fifteen surgeries from that point on

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Speaker 1: for the next like thirty years. UM. And it turns

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Speaker 1: out that she was a great painter, which must have

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Speaker 1: been something to be like, well, I'm in this hospital

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Speaker 1: bed that they're equipping me with this special easel that

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Speaker 1: I can use in my full body casts lying down.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna put a mirror on on the ceiling above

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Speaker 1: me so I can be my own model. And she

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Speaker 1: was very much known for her self portraits. And she

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Speaker 1: starts painting and is amazingly talented. Yeah, And at first

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Speaker 1: she she was saying, Okay, well, I can't be a doctor,

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Speaker 1: and apparently I have this knack for painting. Maybe I'll

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Speaker 1: be a medical illustrator. And once you hear that, when

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Speaker 1: you see some of her work, you're like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she basically was a medical illustrator. Yeah, but in a

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Speaker 1: exploring anatomy as a metaphor for emotion. Yes, from what

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Speaker 1: I understand, right, Yeah, I mean I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: mean this might be hyperbolic to say this, but I

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Speaker 1: don't know if any artists that poured herself out on

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Speaker 1: the canvas as much as she did. Certainly not up

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Speaker 1: to the point, especially female artists. Oh yeah, absolutely, up

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Speaker 1: to this point when when free Callo came along, like

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Speaker 1: women were if you were emotional, you were hysterical one.

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Speaker 1: But you certainly weren't if you were a woman artist,

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Speaker 1: you certainly weren't expected to explore emotions and grief and

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Speaker 1: personhood and the self. And you certainly weren't expected to

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Speaker 1: do it in your paintings, And she said her works

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Speaker 1: showed that that was not the case. It wasn't even

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Speaker 1: like you shouldn't do this, it was women can't do this.

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Speaker 1: And she came along and said, and actually we can,

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Speaker 1: because I'm living proof. Yeah. And if you're a man,

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Speaker 1: you're just a brooding artist. If you're a woman, you're hysterical. Um,

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Speaker 1: you're depressed. And she just man, she laid it out

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Speaker 1: there as raw as you could imagine, and especially for

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Speaker 1: the time, it was just off the charts how radical

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Speaker 1: it was. Right, so so, and she's able to do

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Speaker 1: this because her family set up a special easel in

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Speaker 1: a mirror for her to be her own model. Right, yes,

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Speaker 1: so this is that, this big thing like this is

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Speaker 1: starting to come along and she she um passes the

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Speaker 1: time while she's recuperating doing this, and she recovers enough

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Speaker 1: that she goes back to school and starts hanging out

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Speaker 1: with her old friends again, and from that re entry

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Speaker 1: back into the revolutionary slash communist world in Mexico at

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Speaker 1: the time, she ended up in the orbit of Diego

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Speaker 1: Rivera again. Actually they ran across each other at a party. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this was it. Man. From that point forward, they

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Speaker 1: would be um. They would be tied to one another

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Speaker 1: through their work and through their multiple marriages to one another. Uh.

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Speaker 1: She was twenty two, he was twenty years older than her. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And he very much um he may he very much

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Speaker 1: encouraged her early on yea and champion her and was

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Speaker 1: her mentors and artists. Was. She went up to him

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Speaker 1: at at this party and said, I want you to

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Speaker 1: look at my work and tell me should I pursue it?

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Speaker 1: To this? Am I an artist? Or is just nothing?

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Speaker 1: And he looked at her work and he said, you

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Speaker 1: were an artist? This is astounding, Like do you have

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Speaker 1: what it takes? And you should keep pursuing being an

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Speaker 1: artist in as a matter of fact, let's get married. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean he was attracted to her, but um, I

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Speaker 1: haven't seen anything that that led me to believe that

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Speaker 1: any of his support of her work was not genuine.

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Speaker 1: And because he wanted to get her in the sack. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't that kind of guy. He would get anybody

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Speaker 1: in the sack. He certainly didn't have to marry you,

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Speaker 1: and he certainly didn't have to tell you were a

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Speaker 1: great artist that is below him. I saw a thing.

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Speaker 1: They both had multiple affairs. We'll talk about that throughout

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Speaker 1: their marriage, and you know, maybe or maybe not so

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Speaker 1: understanding of each other doing so. Um, but I saw

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Speaker 1: one point that he supposedly got his doctor to write

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Speaker 1: a note that said that he was physically incapable of

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Speaker 1: being faithful. Really, I don't know if that's true or not.

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Speaker 1: So he had I just want to get this quote,

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Speaker 1: and he had a great quote of about her um

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Speaker 1: as an artist. He said that she was a realist

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Speaker 1: as far as her arts concerned. She was quote the

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Speaker 1: first woman in the history of art to treat with

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Speaker 1: absolute and uncompromising honesty. One might even say cruelty those

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Speaker 1: general and specific themes which exclusively affect women. Yeah, like

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Speaker 1: that's those are pretty strong words from a renowned artist

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Speaker 1: who I mean, Diego Rivera was well renowned by this

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Speaker 1: time already, So when he looked at her art and

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Speaker 1: had things like that to say about it, it really

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Speaker 1: meant something. She was. If she ever was an outsider artist,

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Speaker 1: she wasn't anymore. She was a genuine artist. She'd been

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Speaker 1: decreed as such by the cream of the crop. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she Um. I think the article on her own

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Speaker 1: website downplays a little bit her successes during her life.

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Speaker 1: It's certainly nothing compared to what she got many many

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Speaker 1: years later, decades later after her death. Um, they weren't

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Speaker 1: freedom maniacs back then, but she wasn't. She also was

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Speaker 1: not just completely unknown as an artist. I mean, she

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Speaker 1: got some notoriety during her life. She got to know Picasso,

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Speaker 1: she got to know I mean, these were the circles

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00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 1: she traveled in, partially because of Diego Rivera. But um,

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00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 1: they started moving around, you know, starting in the nineteen thirties. Uh,

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00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 1: they didn't stay in Mexico. They lived in San Francisco

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Speaker 1: for a little while, uh, depending on where the work was.

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Speaker 1: Because he was a muralist, right, so he had to

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Speaker 1: go to the place where he was doing. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: He can't say, I'm gonna send you a mural, just

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Speaker 1: tape tape it up, send me a wall. And he

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00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,600
Speaker 1: had her in tow which I get the impression like

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00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 1: sometimes she was a willing accomplice and other times she

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00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,200
Speaker 1: was very much homesick for Mexico. Yeah, she for sure

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00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,479
Speaker 1: miss Mexico. I know she did enjoy her time in

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Speaker 1: like in New York and said, I don't know if

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00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 1: she loved Detroit. I don't know if anybody didn't. They

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00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: moved to Detroit while he worked for the Detroit Institute

348
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Speaker 1: for the Arts, but very famously in the nineteen thirties

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Speaker 1: they lived in New York City when Diego Rivero was

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Speaker 1: commissioned by Nelson rocket Feller, who in the movie The

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Speaker 1: Great Movie by Julie Taymore and Samahayak was played by

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Speaker 1: Edward Norton. Oh yeah, have you not seen that movie? Man?

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Speaker 1: It's good and once you hear the uh, especially with

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Speaker 1: the backstory now with the Weinstein stuff coming out, I mean,

355
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 1: this was her passion, Salamahayaks passion project for her life,

356
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Speaker 1: and uh, he put her through a living hell. It's horrifying.

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Speaker 1: I think it was. It might have been a New

358
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: York or New York Times had a great article about it.

359
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: But um or that she wrote, I think, But um,

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Speaker 1: I think what got me on that was Edward Norton.

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00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 1: Was he he rewrote the script for Like for Free

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00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 1: because basically one of Harvey's picks things was like, I'm

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00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,439
Speaker 1: not gonna give you any money for this, Like you

364
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: gotta do it for almost nothing. Everyone's gonna have to

365
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 1: work for free. So she got everyone to work for

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Speaker 1: free or you know scale uh. From Edward Norton to

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00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: Julie Tamore, the great director and um, he he demanded

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Speaker 1: a lesbian sex scene, like literally was like, I'm not

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00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: doing this unless you do that. And she was bisexual,

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00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: so it wasn't like he created this out of thin air,

371
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: but he's like, I want to see this on screen. Um.

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00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 1: She supposedly had affairs with George O'Keefe and Josephine Baker

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Speaker 1: and all these famous female performers and artists, but she

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Speaker 1: did not do that. I think she. I think she

375
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 1: had a kissing scene with Ashley Judd at a party.

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Speaker 1: Who is actually Judd supposed to be? I can't remember.

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00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in a minute. Emily's mad that

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00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: she's not here right now. I told her about this

379
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:34,720
Speaker 1: last night and she's like, why am I not honest?

380
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: Like we don't have guests. She's like, I'm a guest

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Speaker 1: on Movie Crush. I was like, well that's a different

382
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:45,199
Speaker 1: podcast altogether. Yeah, Um, she will pick this apart, trust me.

383
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:47,520
Speaker 1: But anyway, she had a devil of a time getting

384
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: that movie made. Uh, and it went on to great

385
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 1: success and I think still is the highest grossing art

386
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Speaker 1: based movie of all time. Yeah, that's what I saw. Ye.

387
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: So anyway, they were in New York City because Nelson Rockefeller,

388
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: displayed Byward Norton, had commissioned Diego Rivera to paint a

389
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Speaker 1: mural at Rockefeller Center called Man at the Crossroads. And

390
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,679
Speaker 1: in it it was one of these big um almost

391
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 1: looked like a Sergeant Pepper's cover, you know, people all

392
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Speaker 1: over the place. And um, he snuck in Vladimir Lenin

393
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Speaker 1: in the painting. So I have a question about that.

394
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 1: Did he sneak it in it was caught or was

395
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: he like And also, by the way, I've included this

396
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 1: great man Lenin. He snuck it in um as a response, uh,

397
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: as a very pointed response to something. And I can't

398
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: remember exactly what it was, but it wasn't originally in

399
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 1: the plan and I don't know if it was in

400
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 1: the original sketch. I might be getting this slightly wrong,

401
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 1: but at any rate, he got Lenin in there, and um,

402
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,040
Speaker 1: Rockefeller was not happy. I mean, I think it was

403
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: more of his family. Like he he stayed his friend.

404
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 1: It wasn't like he was like, I hate you your

405
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: big poopy bands. Go back to Mexico. But he stopped

406
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,959
Speaker 1: the work. That painting was mural, was removed and destroyed.

407
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: But eventually was it destroyed. Yeah, man, pretty sad. But

408
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: eventually um Rivera recreated that a little smaller in Mexico

409
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: City and changed the title to Man Controller of the

410
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:25,680
Speaker 1: Universe and then in parentheses up yours Rockefeller. Maybe so,

411
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 1: but that just sort of puts a button on them.

412
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Speaker 1: Moving kind of all around the United States for a while.

413
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: And this is when she was being introduced to high

414
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: society and and uh everyone from like I said, Josephine

415
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: Baker too, to Trotsky and she was she was working

416
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: at the time to write It's what. It wasn't like

417
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: she was just hanging out. She was still painting. And

418
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: one of the paintings she um did was um the

419
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: Suicide of Dorothy Hale. Yeah, that was interesting. So she

420
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 1: was commissioned by Claire loose Booth little Deuce Coope. She

421
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: was the she was from the publishing family of Time.

422
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 1: I think she published Vanity Fair or something like that.

423
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 1: She's a great publishing magnate um And this was back

424
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: in the thirties, and she was friends with Dorothy Hale,

425
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: who was a an actress, a well known actress who

426
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: had hit on hard times financially and was having to

427
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 1: live on the um generosity of her friends. And she

428
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,440
Speaker 1: climbed up to the highest point of the high rise

429
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: that she lived off of inn jumped to her death

430
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: and devastated Claire booth Loose and I hope I get

431
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 1: that right at least somewhere, and who was her friend?

432
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 1: And she commissioned Freda Calo to Um to do a

433
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,639
Speaker 1: painting which she thought this would be a portrait to

434
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: commemorate my friend Dorothy. That's not at all what fred

435
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: to Callo did. Yeah, I don't know she realized who

436
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: she was commissioning fully, like have you seen her work? Right?

437
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: So what Freda Calo did was she took this assignment

438
00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: and and commemorated not Dorothy Hale necessarily, but Dorothy Hails

439
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: death by suicide. It's it's almost like a step by

440
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 1: step diagram. It shows her at the top of the

441
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: building in mid air, and then in the foreground. Largest

442
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: of all is her broken, bloody body on the ground,

443
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 1: but it has this very somber um text caption basically

444
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 1: across the bottom in a scroll that explains what this

445
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: is and that's how sad this is um and that

446
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: it was the suicide of Dorothy Hale and so um.

447
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: Apparently when Claire Uh booth Loose got got this, she

448
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 1: unwrapped it and was like, what is this gag? And

449
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: she was going to destroy it, and friends talked her

450
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 1: out of it. So it's still in existence today. From

451
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,719
Speaker 1: what I understand, I think the booth or Loose family

452
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: has has the uh the painting in their possession now. Yeah,

453
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 1: And that's uh just emblematic of Frieda's outlook, which was

454
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,560
Speaker 1: like she was no bs. She's like, I'm gonna show

455
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 1: you what's real. So let me ask you this. You're

456
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: the freedom expert here between the two of us. Was

457
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: she doing that like like I'm all in your face, Claire,

458
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 1: this is the reality of your friend's suicide or was

459
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: it she this is this was her expression of emotion

460
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: that she thought Claire, I'm not saying her last two names,

461
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: would would would kind of vibe on and like this

462
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: would be the greatest commemoration of her friend, which one. Well,

463
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,240
Speaker 1: I don't think it was all in your face. I

464
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: think she thought that was the honesty. I think she

465
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: thought that was the most honest work. But I'm not

466
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: sure whether or not she considered like, wait a minute,

467
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: is she gonna hate this? Okay? So she wasn't like,

468
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter she hates it. This is the this

469
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 1: is the most honest work. So even if this psychologically

470
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,959
Speaker 1: destroys her, Claire needs is tough enough. I'm very curious.

471
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I don't know. I understand a

472
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: lot of the symbolism and her paintings now, but I

473
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: don't necessarily I haven't hit upon her motivation or person

474
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: reality quite yet. Family is gonna be so mad because

475
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: she read her biography and she's probably like, oh, we'll

476
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: read page six, right, jerks, and that will explain at all.

477
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,239
Speaker 1: Sorry again, Emily, that's right. Do you want to take

478
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: a break, Yeah, let's do okay, alright, Chuck. So one

479
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: other thing, very big thing happened to her in Detroit,

480
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: actually um, and she has a painting that commemorates it,

481
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: called henry Ford Hospital. She had her second miscarriage, and

482
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: this her miscarriages. I believe she's just head the two

483
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: I think so. Um, but that's all right. Um. She

484
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: those would affect and influence her work for the rest

485
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: of her life. They deeply impacted her, and not just

486
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 1: emotionally impacted her. But they were themed she explored, you know,

487
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 1: like can you still be a mother to other things

488
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: even if you don't bear your own children? Can you? Um?

489
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: You know, like like how does it affect your femininity?

490
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: That's it's it's a theme that really affected her and

491
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: she explored, and it really is just right there in

492
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: broad bold colors in henry Ford Hospital. Yeah. I mean

493
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: she she very famously had was a mother too many animals.

494
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: She had spider monkeys, she had dogs, cats, birds, she

495
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: had a pet deer, um all at her at her house. Uh.

496
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: We have a great children's book called that I recommend

497
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: called Fred to Calla and her animalitos. Uh. That's really

498
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,160
Speaker 1: really fun for kids, but um and adults actually, But yeah,

499
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: she really wanted to be a mother and it was

500
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: devastating to her that she couldn't be. Uh. And like

501
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: you said, with all her work so raw and laid bare. Um.

502
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: And I assume most people have seen her work, Like

503
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: we'll talk about some of it a little bit. It

504
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't hurt to kind of brush up on these if

505
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: you have a couple of tabs handy while we're talking. Yeah,

506
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: but lots of blood, lots of um exposed organ blood

507
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: vessels connecting her to things. Yeah, it's just um, it's

508
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: like you said, you don't have to work hard to

509
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: understand what she's getting at when there's a painting of

510
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: her with her like body cavity split open and like

511
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: a baby bunny where her womb is. Actually, I think

512
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: I just made that part of That's a great idea.

513
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: I like that imagery. It wouldn't surprise me if that

514
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: was one of her paintings. You know. Um, there was

515
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: a lot of pain, physical pain depicted in her paintings.

516
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: And this is another huge theme or motif for whatever

517
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: you want to call it, um to where her the

518
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: physical pain depicted. And again remember she's painting herself almost

519
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: exclusively here. Um her emotional pain is depicted as physical pain,

520
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: so like nails all over her body, or she has

521
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: a huge terror going vertically up the middle of her body,

522
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: and her spine is a doric column that's crumbling. Just

523
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: just physical imagery that it did depict her physical pain too.

524
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: She was always in a lot of pain throughout her

525
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 1: life physically, but she also suffered a lot of emotional

526
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: and psychic pain as well, and all of it was

527
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: combined as physical pain and evisceration and being laid open

528
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: in her paintings. Yeah, and uh, eventually she would meet

529
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: Andre is it is it Beton or Breton, the father

530
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: of surrealism? Yeah, and he is the one. Uh. She actually, um,

531
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,600
Speaker 1: in a funny way, kind of said she never considered

532
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: herself as surrealist until Andre Breton came to Mexico and

533
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: told me I was one. Really, I do not know

534
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: whether my paintings are surrealists or not, but I do

535
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: know that they're the Frankist expression of myself. Um. But

536
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: she's if you want to classify her art wise, surrealism

537
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 1: or magic surrealism is uh definitely categories that her A

538
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: lot of her work fits under. So I saw a

539
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: m I mean, we used a lot of sites for this.

540
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: I can't remember which when it came from, but I

541
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: saw a description of her work as um that she

542
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 1: was an individualist, which means like she was her own thing.

543
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: She may have had influences, and she definitely had Mexican

544
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: indigenous art influenced. That's a huge thing that really drives

545
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 1: like the visual um impact of her paintings. But as

546
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:39,280
Speaker 1: far as like schools of art go or movements she was,

547
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: she tapped into primitivism, indigenism, magic realism, surrealism, and um. Again,

548
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: all of it combined to make her an individualist artist. Well, yeah,

549
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: you mentioned the her indigenous roots and and she very

550
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 1: much and and I think Diego Rivera is one who

551
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: really incur urged her to embrace that, and she started

552
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: she kind of I mean, she wore suits and stuff

553
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: sometimes since she was a kid, but she wore more

554
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 1: European style of clothing when she was younger, and then

555
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: really started wearing more Mexican indigenous stuff. Yeah, really colorful stuff.

556
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: And most famously captured in maybe her most famous painting,

557
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: the Two Frida's in nine nine. It's the double self

558
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: portrait that on one side shows her in the more

559
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 1: modern European clothing um, and then on the other side

560
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 1: it's her in her more indigenous Mexican clothing, and both

561
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: of them have their hearts exposed. I think on the

562
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: European side, the arteries are severed and things. On the

563
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 1: Mexican side, it's intact. The heart is intact, really really pretty.

564
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: It is very pretty. A lot of her work was pretty.

565
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: Some of it sometimes it's like it looks very primitive,

566
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: and then other times they're in some details like the

567
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: eye as of a cat or something like that, You're like, wow,

568
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: that's really it's very like almost photo realistic. Yeah, so

569
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: it's it's very weird to me how her Um, I

570
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: don't want to say her talent, but her Yeah, her

571
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: visual talents kind of we're applied in some places and

572
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: not not as much in others. And I'm wondering what

573
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: the details were that that made her make those decisions. Yeah,

574
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,280
Speaker 1: she included her pets and a lot of her paintings.

575
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 1: I think fifty five of her paintings featured her pets.

576
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 1: Um some very famous ones with her her spider, monkeys

577
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: and birds on her shoulder. My favorite one is called

578
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,840
Speaker 1: What the Water Gave Me Um. It's a it's a

579
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: only guess. This's a self portrait in a way of

580
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: her in a bathtub from her vantage points, so you

581
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: just see her her feet and toes sticking out at

582
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: the end of the tub and then the water is

583
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: just full of all kinds of other stuff, Like I

584
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: don't think I've seen that one. It's really nice. Like

585
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: there's a volcano with the Empire State building coming out

586
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: of the center of it, with like and grennius lava

587
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: flowing over the sides. Because she would get gang green

588
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: later in life, just another physical malady, and had one

589
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 1: of her legs amputated below the knee. Uh. There was

590
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,720
Speaker 1: a dead bird, a one legged bird, um being pierced

591
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: by a tree. There's a nude woman floating next to

592
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: her dress looks like her parents on their wedding day,

593
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,919
Speaker 1: and it's it's all like in the bathtub water um

594
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: with her feet and toes sticking out. One toe of course,

595
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: is is mangled and cracked and bloody. Um. There was

596
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: so much gruesome, so many gruesome aspects to so much

597
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: of her work, but um, it kind of punches you

598
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,879
Speaker 1: in the gut very much like it's. To see these

599
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: things in person is like, especially if you're a fan

600
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: of her work, to actually stand in front of one

601
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: of them and put your nose six inches from it

602
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 1: is is really pretty pretty astounding. Do not sneeze, Do

603
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: not sneeze on the art. They have signs everywhere. This article,

604
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: our Howstuff Works article points out the Wounded Deer and

605
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: My Birth both in the same paragraph. Here. Those are

606
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: two of my favorites. Actually, my birth is so just

607
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: just twisted, but it's also really simple and straightforward. It's

608
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,360
Speaker 1: her mother, but you assume it's her mother. The sheets

609
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: actually placed over her mother's head, so you never see

610
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: her face, and you also kind of get the impression

611
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: that it could be freed to as well. Um, but

612
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: it's Frieda's head, grown up Frieda like coming out of

613
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,759
Speaker 1: the birth canal, the womb as it were. I feel

614
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: like such like a nineteenth century like white guy calling

615
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 1: it a womb, you know, but um, yeah, it is graphic,

616
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: but it's also it looks it kind of I don't know.

617
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: I don't want to armchair critique it or anything like that.

618
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: I just like that one. Um, and then uh, the

619
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: Wounded Deer I think is awesome too. Yeah, we should

620
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: probably apologize to every art historian and critic. Like when

621
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: it comes to art, I love, and I know you

622
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 1: do too, love going to museums and you're probably where

623
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: I am, which is I just like what I like, like,

624
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 1: you know, if it looks nice to me, and nice

625
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: doesn't mean oh that's pretty, but you know, if if

626
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: it touches me in some way, I'm like, I like that. Sure,

627
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 1: I don't supposed to do. I enjoy reading the placards

628
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 1: and then understanding a bit more behind it. But I'm

629
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 1: definitely not some art historian or critic, although I do

630
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: appreciate being having art explained to me by our historians

631
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,720
Speaker 1: and people who know, like Sister Wendy, that whole series

632
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: from the eighties or nineties, I don't know that. Oh man,

633
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: I've told you about before. She's this nun who understands

634
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 1: art better than anybody in the world, and so like

635
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: a little PBS series for a while where she could

636
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: just explain art and you just wanted to watch the

637
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: next episode so bad. Yeah, But I think the level

638
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: that you and I are at that you were characterizing

639
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: is um it was best captured on a Simpsons There

640
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:04,280
Speaker 1: was a museum audio tour that was narrated by Melanie Griffith,

641
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: and when they put it on press place, She's like, Oh,

642
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,120
Speaker 1: let's see what's in this room. Oh, this one's nice.

643
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: I like this one. Oh look at that one, what's

644
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: in the next room. That's the level we're at of

645
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: understanding and appreciating art, Melanie Griffith level. Uh we we

646
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: briefly mentioned Leon Trotsky earlier, the exile Communists and rival

647
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: to Stalin Um. They were friends and and they hosted him.

648
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 1: She and Diego Rivera at the Blue House and supposedly

649
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: had a brief affair um, although other people have questioned

650
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,959
Speaker 1: whether or not was whether or not she really did

651
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: because of I think last year a lot of her

652
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: love letters to Diego were published. Yeah, and it's really

653
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: interesting their relationship. You know, they divorced in ninety nine,

654
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:58,040
Speaker 1: um remarried the next year. In lived in separate houses.

655
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: They both had their infidelity. Is but um a really

656
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: interesting complex relationship UM mentor student lovers, friends, rivals as

657
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: well in some cases. Uh, but it's hard to obviously

658
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: as an outsider encapsulated on a podcast, but a very

659
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:26,800
Speaker 1: complex relationship full of respect and admiration on some levels.

660
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 1: But also uh, he was also that you know, sort

661
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 1: of of the time in Mexico and America, just that

662
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,399
Speaker 1: male macho thing going on. I mean, for goodness sakes,

663
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: he tried to have his doctor write a note the

664
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: city was physically capable of being faithful. So let's just

665
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,479
Speaker 1: say male dominant complex marriage and relationship. Well, I also

666
00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: saw she could kind of, you know, put up with

667
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: his affairs and and she definitely had her own. But

668
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 1: supposedly he his affair with her younger sister, like really

669
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: trusted her. That was I think led directly to their divorce. Yeah,

670
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: I could see that. Yeah, that was uncool. Yeah, diego, Yeah,

671
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: even with the doctor's note, diego. Yeah. And he died

672
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: just a few years after her, I believe right. I

673
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: don't know when he died, actually, yeah, I think he

674
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: died three years after her. Um. By the nineteen fifties,

675
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: her health was really declining. She kept having these surgeries,

676
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: kept painting. Nineteen fifty three she had a solo exhibition

677
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: and man, she couldn't get around. And this is so

678
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 1: great in the movie. They she wasn't gonna go at all.

679
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: And then they brought her in by ambulance, brought in

680
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,319
Speaker 1: a four poster bed and that's where she was in

681
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: the gallery. She was laying in bed like greeting people. Yeah,

682
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: she received everyone while she was in bed, bedridden. Pretty amazing.

683
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: And she died a couple of weeks later. I think, actually,

684
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: I think the last time she was seen in public

685
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: she showed up for a protest against the US back

686
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 1: coup that overthrow overthrew our bends in Guatemala. Yeah, Edward

687
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 1: Burne's coming back in right into the picture every time. Um.

688
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: And she she died again at age forty seven, man

689
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 1: after a life of pain, but a very very productive

690
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: life of pain to change things quite a bit. Yeah.

691
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: And with her death, she um, it's listed as pulmonary embolism,

692
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: but they never did an autopsy in there. It's generally

693
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: believed that she committed suicide. How pills her Her personal

694
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: nurse said that she took twelve I think pain killers

695
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 1: when she knew that her max was seven, and earlier

696
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: that evening she had given Diego an anniversary present a

697
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: month early, which it all kind of adds up in

698
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: the chronic pain. And just you know, this was after polio,

699
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: after gang Green, after amputation, after pneumonia, after the bus accident,

700
00:41:57,160 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: after the bus accident, so um, yeah, she may have

701
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 1: just ended it understandably. Yeah. So her when she died,

702
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: like you said, she was you know, fairly well known

703
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 1: in certain circles in the art world. But when she died,

704
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 1: her work kind of entered into obscurity for a few

705
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: decades and then yeah, it's well put. And then in

706
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: the late seventies it was rediscovered. Um bye bye. I

707
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: guess nationalists you could call them art nationalists in Mexico.

708
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: And she has been basically a pop icon ever since.

709
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: Once her story was really um established and built and

710
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: her work came back out, she's just never really left

711
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,719
Speaker 1: the art scene since, which is pretty cool, very cool. Uh.

712
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 1: If she is in a museum near you go check

713
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: it out. Do you want to do you want to

714
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 1: talk about her famous eyebrow, because I think this this

715
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 1: article did a really good job of addressing it. Yeah,

716
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 1: so she has she painted herself. She very famously had

717
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,439
Speaker 1: what you would call a unibrow, right, and she would

718
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: paint it a lot. But the article on how Stuff

719
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: Works quotes a um a book by Desmond Morris called

720
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: The Naked Woman a study of the female body, and

721
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: he basically says Desmond Morris says that like women will

722
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:25,640
Speaker 1: will pluck the their unibrow into nothingness like religiously, and

723
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,879
Speaker 1: that it takes a woman who is above fashion too

724
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 1: to flaunt her unibrow, and that that perfectly that that

725
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: term above fashion perfectly encapsulates free to call o, which

726
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: I thought was a pretty cool thing because the Desmond

727
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: Morris wasn't talking about free to callo. This article went

728
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:44,839
Speaker 1: out of its way to go find that and bring

729
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: it in and I think it analyzes her appreciation of

730
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: herself inside and out pretty well. Yeah. I mean, if

731
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 1: that was one thing that she did on her canvas

732
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: was say this is met in every single way inside

733
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,919
Speaker 1: and out, and her her leg see in the art world,

734
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: especially among among women and female artists, is like the

735
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: the one article we read. City just can't overstate the importance.

736
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 1: Nice got anything else? No, I apologize for all the mistakes. Yeah, sorry,

737
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 1: let's do Andy Warhol one. Next. I tried to do

738
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 1: right by this one. Okay, yeah, okay, I apologizing to

739
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:30,359
Speaker 1: Emily specifically, right. Sorry. Uh. If you want, if you're

740
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 1: not Emily and you want to know more about free

741
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 1: to Call Up, you can search her on our website.

742
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,919
Speaker 1: There's actually a pretty decent little article and then there's

743
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 1: tons of stuff. Go look at our art all over

744
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: the web and in person. And since I said that

745
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:48,360
Speaker 1: as time for listener mail, I'm gonna call this mistakes

746
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: in defense of us. Hey, guys, I'm sure you get

747
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 1: annoyed at the influx of emails you get every time

748
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 1: you make a mistake on your podcast. At least that's

749
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: what I gleaned from a few recent episodes where you

750
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:03,960
Speaker 1: anticipate people and correcting you want to fact how ironic, Um,

751
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,919
Speaker 1: I'm writing the counterbalance that you guys do a fantastic job.

752
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 1: I'm amazed that you were able to cover topics in

753
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 1: such detail, with such high turnover rate, with how quickly

754
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: produce episodes. I would expect so many more mistakes or

755
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 1: sloppy work. But not not with you. Excuse me, no,

756
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 1: not with you. I kind of like not not. Um.

757
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: I'm starting my own podcast, and it's made me deeply

758
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: appreciative of how talented and gifted you guys are as host.

759
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 1: One day, I hope I'll be as smooth and easy

760
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: going as you are as always. Please keep going with

761
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: your work. You're my favorite podcast. Also want to give

762
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: a shout out, especially to your Trail of Tears episodes.

763
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 1: I recently went into the archives and listened to those two. Uh,

764
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: you told that story beautifully. I think you really did

765
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 1: it justice and I would recommend that anyone who hasn't

766
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: listened and go back and listen anyway, seriously, thank you

767
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 1: for adding something fun to my life. And that great

768
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 1: name is from uh Shelina Bathala or maybe Batala depending

769
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 1: on how you burn out uh. And she is the host.

770
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: And I asked her, well, you're a bad plugger of

771
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,279
Speaker 1: your own work because I don't even know what your

772
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,359
Speaker 1: podcast is going to be about, but it's coming soon.

773
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:14,959
Speaker 1: It's called worth It. Yeah, good title. Yeah, everyone, that

774
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 1: is how you get your podcast plugged on stuff? That's right?

775
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:24,200
Speaker 1: Who whoa whoa breaking news? Oh yeah, came back to life. No.

776
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 1: I just got an email reply from Shelina and she said,

777
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 1: my podcast is about helping people create a life that

778
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: they're happy with. I think a lot of people feel lost,

779
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,839
Speaker 1: don't feel connected to themselves, or feel scared to do

780
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: what they actually want to do, like pursue a creative

781
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: career or do something that makes far less money. So

782
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 1: I talked to people who have been there who are

783
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,439
Speaker 1: still there about their journey and what they have done

784
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: to create happiness in their life. It's gonna be good. Yeah,

785
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: good job. That sounds great. Yeah, hurry up, Shelina, Yeah okay,

786
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: best of luck with worth it coming soon to a

787
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 1: podcast distributor near you wherever you find your podcast right

788
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 1: uh And if you want to get in touch with us,

789
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 1: you can tweet to us at s y s K

790
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: podcast um. You can also hang out with us on

791
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 1: Facebook at Facebook dot com slash Stuff you Should Know.

792
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: You can send us all an email the Stuff podcast

793
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: at how Stuff Works dot com, and there's always joining

794
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 1: Sutter home on the web. Stuff you Should Know dot com.

795
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio.

796
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

797
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows