1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, it never ends with Hollywood justice. 2 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: Matthew Perry, the star of the iconic Friends series, dead 3 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: in his hot tub because of doctors and enablers. 4 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 2: That allowed him to die. 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: Yes, he bears some responsibility to we know that, but 6 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: what about the others that let it happen, that made 7 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: it happen? 8 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 2: They are skating justice? 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: Is it because they're rich, high profile or just part 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: of the Hollywood MAYLEEU. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. That's right. 12 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: In the Last Days, Matthew Perry's Ketemen doctor skates escapes 13 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: jail and a shock ruling as the court hears how 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: he is driving Uber for a living. 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 2: So good. 16 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: That is a blessing to him to drive Uber for 17 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: a living. He should be mopping floors in the penitentiary. 18 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 1: Matthew Perry is dead because of him, and I wonder 19 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: how many other people he prescribed. Kettymine two, one of 20 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: the doctors caught up in the criminal fallout surrounding the 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: Friends legend. Matthew Perry's Kennymine death some would call it 22 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: a murder, has avoided a jail time. What actually happened 23 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 1: to Matthew Perry. Let me start with the nine to 24 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: one one call. 25 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,759 Speaker 2: Listen three give. 26 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 3: Us signs and radio in part of the drowning across 27 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 3: a few twey three give us sign. 28 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: You can't tell a lot, but I learned something significant. 29 00:01:58,560 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Let's hear that one more time. 30 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 4: Said twenty three give us signal and radio in front 31 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 4: of the drowning across the. 32 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 3: Tweeny three give us sign. 33 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: Now, some of those numbers are universal. Sometimes you hear 34 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: numbers across a police ban or on an ems. 35 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: That are specific to that region. 36 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: But what I'm hearing that really jumps out at me 37 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: as response to the drowning. So at the beginning, it 38 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: was believed that the friends start died of drowning because 39 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: that's what was reported to them. But what do we 40 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: really know? Take to listen to our friends at crime Online. 41 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 5: The Los Angeles Medical Examiner determined that fifty four year 42 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 5: old Matthew Perry died from the acute effects of ketamine. 43 00:02:55,680 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 5: Other contributing factors listed were drowning, coronary artery disease, and 44 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 5: the effects of buprenorphine. Buprenorphine is used to treat opioid 45 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 5: use disorder, the manner of death has been ruled an accident. 46 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: Okay, see, I'm a trial lawyer, and that is why 47 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: the medical examiners and everybody at the crime lab would 48 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: go hide under their desk when they saw my beat 49 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: up Honda pulling up, because they knew I was going 50 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: to go through it line by line literally to make 51 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: sense of what they wrote down in their scientific findings. 52 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: What acute effects of ketamine, Other contributing factors were drowning, 53 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: coronary artery disease, prefer blue blue used to treat opioid disorder, 54 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: manner of death, accident. There's so much there. I could 55 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: do a whole flow chart on that to try to 56 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: explain all that to a jury. Luckily we have experts 57 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: with us. But first I'm going to go to a 58 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: special guest joining us, Miguel Melendez, joining us, senior writer 59 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: for Entertainment tonight. 60 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,119 Speaker 2: Miguel, what a pleasure to have you on. Man. 61 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: This sent shock waves through not only Hollywood but. 62 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: Across our country. 63 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: Because I'm going to follow this up with our shrink, 64 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: Karen Stark. We think we know Matthew Perry. Why because 65 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: we've seen him on the big screen. We've seen him 66 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: on the little screen. We follow him in the tabloids. 67 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,480 Speaker 1: We think we know him and about his life. We've 68 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: been following his struggle with addiction, and a lot of 69 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: people can identify with that. If you haven't had that 70 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: struggle in somebody, you know somebody close to you. 71 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 2: Has had that struggle. 72 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,479 Speaker 1: So Matthew Perry was kind of like every man that 73 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: was struggling with a lot. But to you, Miguel Melendez, 74 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,280 Speaker 1: I want to go before I get into Matthew Perry 75 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: himself and how it ended up this way, I want 76 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: to talk to you about what happened, what surrounded the 77 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: discovery of Matthew Perry dead in a hot tub leading 78 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: up to that. Tell me about the discovery and what 79 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: came out at the time that he was first discovered 80 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: dead in the hot tub. 81 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 6: Right, So, what we know of the timeline is that 82 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 6: at eleven am, Matthew had played pickleball. At one thirty 83 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 6: seven PM is when Matthew was last known to be 84 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,279 Speaker 6: alive by his personal living assistant to live with him 85 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 6: in the Pacific Policy Home. He was off to run errands. 86 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 6: At one thirty seven pm. The living assistant returned home 87 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,840 Speaker 6: and found Matthew floating face down in the jacuzzi. The 88 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 6: assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the sitting 89 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 6: position on the steps of the pool, and found him 90 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 6: by the way on the heated. 91 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:37,679 Speaker 7: Side of the pool. 92 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 8: Called nine one one. 93 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 6: Paramedics arrived and they moved and they pulled Matthew out 94 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 6: of the pus. 95 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, Miguel, You're giving me so much information 96 00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: so quickly. I'm drinking from the fire hydrate because Miguel, 97 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: you know I like to dissect every single sentence, and 98 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: I loved everything you just said as far as factually 99 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: what I'm learning. 100 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: Could you say it again a very slowly? Okay? Did 101 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: you say the living assistant found him? 102 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 9: Yes? 103 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: Okay. Why did Matthew Perry have a live in assistant? 104 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 8: That I can answer you, Nancy. 105 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 6: I don't know the exact circumstances of what led to that. 106 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 6: I do know that the living assistant, based on this report, 107 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 6: is that he administered the detox drugs on Matthew twice 108 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 6: a day. 109 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: That's important, Miguel Melendez, Hold on, Miguel, hold the thought 110 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: guys with me. He's a senior writer for entertainment tonight. 111 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: You all know him, Miguel Melendez, giving us everything we 112 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: need to know to analyze this drug ketamine that claimed 113 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: the life of Matthew Perry. Karen el start joining me, 114 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: renowned TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com. Karen 115 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: with the c if you're trying to find her, Karen, So, 116 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: is it like a minder. 117 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: You have with AA that. 118 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: I don't think they call it a minder. They call 119 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: it something else, someone that takes in on you. It's 120 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: like your partner, your buddy, that kind of that's who 121 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: you call when you have a problem or you're going 122 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 1: to relapse. Is that what you think is happening here? 123 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: He had somebody to help him. 124 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 10: It's called a sponsor. And his assistant she was his sponsor. 125 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 10: She was his minder, as you said, Nancy, So she 126 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,840 Speaker 10: was there. She could not stop him from taking something, 127 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 10: but certainly was trying. That was her role to make 128 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 10: sure that he was on the straight and narrow and 129 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 10: sticking to his determination to stop. And he was very 130 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 10: open about it. But he really did want to stop 131 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 10: taking drugs recreationally. 132 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: He really did, and he made no secret about it. 133 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: What led up to that moment Miguel Melndez is describing. 134 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: But first again, Miguel, could you tell me the assistant 135 00:07:58,240 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 1: comes in, You. 136 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: Said he was the heater end of the hot tub. 137 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 8: Correct. 138 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 6: So at four pm, the living as system walks in 139 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 6: from running errands finds Matthew Perry floating space down in 140 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 6: the jacuzi in the heated end. 141 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 11: Of the pool. 142 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 6: The assistant jumped into the pool, moved Matthew into the 143 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 6: sitting position on the steps of. 144 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 7: The pool, and called nine one one. 145 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 6: Paramedics soon arrived, pulled Matthew out of the pool onto 146 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 6: the grass, where he was pronounced that at the scene, 147 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 6: you know, I think I had. 148 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: It bass Akwar's Migam Melndez I was saying hot tub 149 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: because I've read jacuzie. But was the jacuzi or the hot. 150 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 2: Tub part of the pool? Was he in a pool 151 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 2: or was he in a hot tub or jacuzi? 152 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 6: It looked like it was a long pool that has 153 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 6: a jacuzi, and then if they're not two separate Okay, that. 154 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: Makes perfect sense. Okay, guys, what led up to this moment? 155 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Nicole Parton. 156 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 5: Matthew Perry went to his country club to play a 157 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 5: game of pickleball with friends around eleven am. Perry returned 158 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 5: to his home after the game and was seen by 159 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,679 Speaker 5: his assistant, who was leaving the house to run errands 160 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 5: at one thirty seven pm. At four o'clock PM, the 161 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 5: assistant returned to the home. Investigator Jennifer Hertzog says the 162 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 5: assistant found Perry floating face down in the heated end 163 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 5: of the pool. The assistant jumped into the pool and 164 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 5: moved him into a sitting position on the steps and 165 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 5: called nine to one one. Paramedics responded, pulled Perry out 166 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 5: of the pool and onto the grass, and pronounced him 167 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 5: dead on the scene at four seventeen PM. His stepfather, 168 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 5: Keith Morrison is listed as the informant, which means the 169 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 5: dateline host is who identified Perry to authorities. 170 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: Oh my goodness that mus is so horrible on the 171 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: stepfather to have to do that after the struggle he 172 00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: Matthew Perry went through so publicly against substance abuse. Mike 173 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: McCormick joining me out of LA owner lead investing at 174 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: her MCM investigations. 175 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 2: Mike McCormick, thank you for being with us. 176 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: I'm very curious Matthew Perry had been so open and 177 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: public about his battle with addiction. Who I mean, even 178 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: I know about that two thousand miles away, who would 179 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: be supplying him drugs, ketamine and all the other things 180 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: in his system. 181 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 7: It was either prescribed to him that Kennedy was prescribed, 182 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 7: or he's getting it off the street. There's only several 183 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 7: ways of doing it. My understanding is that the from 184 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 7: he's a assistant or past girlfriend miss Edwards that she's 185 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 7: been involved with him off and on from about two 186 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 7: thousand and six, and she used to purchase his drugs 187 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 7: off the street for him. So the kennamine and other 188 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 7: drugs he may have been taken to come from e 189 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:04,479 Speaker 7: their short. 190 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 191 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: When I say he skated of jail, boy, did he? 192 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: Mark Chavez, the second of two doctors who are convicted 193 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: with in connection to Matthew Perry's death, was sentenced to 194 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 1: just eight months of home confinement, even though he faced 195 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: the likelihood of at least ten years behind bars. He 196 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: played guilty. There's no question he did it. He played 197 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: guilty to one count conspiracy to distribute ketamine. He admits 198 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: he fraudulently sold and obtained ketamine to a fellow doctor, 199 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:57,359 Speaker 1: Salvador Placincia. 200 00:11:58,240 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: I mean, what does it take. 201 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,439 Speaker 1: The man admitted he might as well have held a 202 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: gun to Matthew Perry's head and pull the trigger. What 203 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: happened that night and Matthew Perry's hot up? 204 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 2: Is that true? I don't know that. Is that true? 205 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: And can that be corroborated that an ex girlfriend would 206 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,079 Speaker 1: score drugs for him? 207 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 6: Well, I don't know that the girlfriend and the assistant 208 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 6: are the same people. I do know that there was 209 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 6: a girlfriend who was his assistant at one time, and 210 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 6: she has gone on the record and asked that, you know, 211 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 6: the doctors be investigated. 212 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,200 Speaker 7: If they were the ones who supplied the ketamine. 213 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 6: Now she's gone on record and said that if that happened, 214 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 6: and then this investigation needs to happen. But whether the 215 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 6: assistant and this ex girlfriend are the same people, it 216 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 6: doesn't seem to indicate that that's what happened based on 217 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 6: the investigation and the details that are in the medical 218 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 6: examiner's report. 219 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 7: The assistant, this is Wendy Patrick. 220 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 12: It looks like the assistant it was living with Matthew 221 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 12: Perry at the time of his death is a man 222 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 12: named Kenny Alamsa right, not the prior, not a prior 223 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,840 Speaker 12: girlfriend or a female assistant. 224 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 2: You're right, Wendy Patrick. 225 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: Guys, you're hearing California prosecutor and author of Why Bad 226 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: Looks Good Wendy Patrick at wendypatrickphd dot com, The Star 227 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,719 Speaker 1: of Today with Dr Wendy on KCBQ. I was just 228 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 1: coming to you, Wendy on another point, a legal point, 229 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: and that is I saw the trial go down. 230 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember Archie Bunker of All 231 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 2: in the family. Yeah, when his son. 232 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: Died of an overdose, he went after the supplier in 233 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,640 Speaker 1: the Fulton County courthouse. And I was just wondering, Wendy 234 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: about people knowing about his public struggle against addiction. 235 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 2: I mean, he wrote about it, he talked about it, 236 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 2: very open about it. 237 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: Who would supply someone battling addiction with It's a great 238 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: question when you have. 239 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 12: When you're talking about somebody that's supposed to be a confidant, 240 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 12: a sponsor, a helper, a minder. We have all these terminology, 241 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,439 Speaker 12: these terms that we use. It's very different than a 242 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 12: Michael Jackson situation where you actually have somebody medically administering 243 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 12: a drug, who would do it? I would have to say, Nancy, 244 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 12: as you and I and our listeners know the same 245 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 12: people that are selling drugs to begin with, maybe somebody 246 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 12: that doesn't know him well enough, or because it was 247 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 12: prescribed lawfully for a medicinal purpose, somebody that honestly, although mistakenly, 248 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 12: thought that he needed it or could handle it in 249 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 12: different doses. You know, ketamine, if it's being as supervised, 250 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 12: is used certainly not very not as often as many 251 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 12: other drugs. But you have to believe whether or not 252 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 12: somebody thought they might be doing him a favor, if 253 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 12: he was depressed, if he was. 254 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 2: Suicidal, they could not have been more wrong. 255 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 1: And if it comes out that we can find a 256 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 1: supplier or someone who aided or a bet at am oh, 257 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: wait to just think about this, Wendy Patrick about criminal 258 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: charges joining me right now? 259 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 2: Is the expert in this field as far as I'm concerned. 260 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: The pre eminent expert, Doctor William Maroney, medical examiner, toxicologist, pathologist, 261 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: opioid treatment expert, author of American Narcan, which is on Amazon. 262 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: Doctor Moroney, take a listen to what we've learned about 263 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: the autopsy. 264 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 5: Matthew Perry's autopsy report doesn't say how or when Perry 265 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 5: used ketamine prior to his death, but the coroner ruled 266 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 5: out the ketamine treatments he had a week and a 267 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 5: half before his death because ketamine has a half life 268 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 5: of three to four hours or less. The report notes, 269 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 5: at the high levels of ketamine found in his post 270 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 5: mortem blood specimens, the main lethal effects would be from 271 00:15:54,080 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 5: both cardiovascular overstimulation and respiratory depression. Drowning contributes due to 272 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 5: the likelihood of submersion into the pool as he lapsed 273 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 5: into unconsciousness. 274 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: And that's not all, doctor Moroni, wait for it. I 275 00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: would never have imagined this goes into the cocktail. 276 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 5: The autopsy report noted Matthew Perry's history of chronic obstructive 277 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 5: pulmonary disease inmphysema and diabetes. The report mentions Perry's past 278 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 5: drug use, but notes Perry had reportedly been cleaned for 279 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 5: nineteen months. The New York Post reports that in the 280 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 5: autopsy report, a comment is made about Perry undergoing ketamine 281 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 5: infusion therapy, most recently one and a half weeks before 282 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 5: his death. The report states ketamine treatments are for anxiety 283 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 5: and depression, but ketamine in the system couldn't be from 284 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 5: the infusion therapy. Doctor Bankole Johnson, one of the leading 285 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 5: neuroscientists and physicians in the field, tells The New York 286 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 5: Post that ketamine in Perry's system is more likely from 287 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 5: recreational use. 288 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: Male hormone testosterone and jack. And there's one more ingredient. 289 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: Why was Matthew Perry getting injections of the male hormone 290 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: testosterone listen. 291 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 11: According to Matthew Perry, he had been cleaned for nineteen months, 292 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 11: but The Daily Mail reports the actor died from an 293 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 11: overdose of the party drug ketamine. According to the autopsy report, 294 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 11: a detective who attended the scene of Perry's death said, quote, 295 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 11: during my investigation, no alcohol, elicit drugs or drug paraphernalia 296 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 11: were found unquote. The Daily Mail also claims the fifty 297 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 11: four year old was getting injections of the male hormone testosterone, 298 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 11: and an unnamed female associate claimed the injections were causing 299 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 11: him to be angry and mean for the last couple 300 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 11: of weeks. 301 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: From my point of view, doctor Maroney as a lay 302 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,400 Speaker 1: person and not a doctor an MD like you, if 303 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: something calls causes you to be angry and mean, it 304 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: makes me wonder if it also didn't jack up his 305 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: heart rate, this male testosterone injection. 306 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what to make of it, 307 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 2: doctor Moroney. 308 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: Because you've got ketamine, you've got testosterone, you've got the 309 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: opioid treatment drug. 310 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 2: There's so much going on there. 311 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 9: What you have is a cocktail of disaster because you 312 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 9: probably are dealing with multiple doctors that are not communicating, 313 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 9: nobody's coordinating his care. And if he's getting ketamine. 314 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 8: As it's said in the autopsy, there's. 315 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 9: Ketamine contents in the stomach that would be ketamine pills. 316 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 9: That's a rogue doctor, somebody outside of good practice guidelines. 317 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 8: Giving pills they have no business giving. In addition to 318 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 8: ketamine treatment, I. 319 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: Mean, is a ketamine used by vets so animals don't 320 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: have pain during operations. 321 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 8: Yeah, it helps anesthesia for your cats and dogs. But 322 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 8: at low doses. It's been shown to be beneficial in 323 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 8: a massively unstable major depressive disorder. But guess what that 324 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:21,560 Speaker 8: acceptable therapy is Nasal? It's a nasal spray with your psychiatrist. 325 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:26,920 Speaker 1: Right, what you're saying, Ketamine, which many people believe is 326 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: just used by veterinarians. Now people are using it, and 327 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:36,200 Speaker 1: you're saying that the only approved way for it to 328 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: be used by people is by a nasal spray. 329 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 9: The acceptable SDA approved supervised ketamine treatment is to go 330 00:19:46,359 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 9: see your psychiatrists, have an appointment, get a nasal spray, 331 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 9: and stay until you're stable, and have a counseling session. 332 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 9: What you have here is somebody keeps saying, well, he's 333 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 9: in treatment, he's in recover, he's not getting enough psychosocial 334 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 9: therapy because he's impaired, he's impulsive, he's processing poor decisions 335 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 9: because he doesn't have that counseling part linked to all 336 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 9: this medicine, what is ketamine? Ketamine is a class of 337 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 9: medicine that works on transmitters called glutamate. 338 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: Oh, dear Lord in Heaven, speak English man, What speak English? 339 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 2: I mean? 340 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: Is this something I've got to worry about? They're going 341 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: to have in the halls of my twins high school? 342 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I hear about ecstasy, co marijuana, blah blah 343 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: blah blah. 344 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:40,440 Speaker 2: But ketamine. 345 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 9: Ketamine's been abused for twenty years in drug culture and 346 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 9: drug use. 347 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 2: But is it traded freely on the street. 348 00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 8: It is on the street. 349 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 9: You can buy it if you can ask for from 350 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 9: your dealer, they'll get you some. But it's FDA approved 351 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 9: as a nasal spray, and he's not getting the FDA 352 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 9: approved version. 353 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 2: Okay, I heard somebody jumping in. Is it when your 354 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 2: Karen Stark? 355 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 10: Karen. It's used as a club drug. It started years ago, Nancy, 356 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 10: but it's continuing. People do useage recreationally, but it's there 357 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 10: are a lot of trials going on where they are 358 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 10: psychedelics to stop addiction, just the opposite of what we 359 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,440 Speaker 10: have here, and for depression, and that has to be 360 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 10: a trial because. 361 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,360 Speaker 6: It's not FDA approved. 362 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 8: These are rogue doctors in rogue clinics. 363 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 9: The only doctor that's probably legitimate here is the one 364 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 9: giving the bupin orphine. That's the hardest word to say, 365 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 9: but in order to do that you have to have training. 366 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 9: The rest of these people doing ketamine rogue. 367 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 8: They're outside the law, they're outside good practice. 368 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 9: We saw this with Anna, Nicole Smith, Michael Jackson, Prince, 369 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 9: all these rogue doctors treating all these celebrities and you 370 00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 9: don't know who's around them. 371 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: Ketamine has been around it being abused for a long time. 372 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: We just don't know that much about it, and we 373 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,959 Speaker 1: don't see it as much. We don't it's not soaked 374 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: into our national understanding as well. But as far as 375 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: I can remember that it's been called baby food, bump, 376 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: cat killer, cat valum, fort, dodge, green, green, k K land, 377 00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: k hole. 378 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,159 Speaker 2: There's a million slang words for ketamine. 379 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: And the first time I ever saw that was when 380 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 1: I was prosecuting and somebody had it as an aside drug. 381 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 2: They were dealing heroin, and they also had vitamin K. 382 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: And you're gonna laugh at this, Mike McCormick, I said, so, 383 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: what's wrong with vitamin K? Because I didn't know what 384 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: that vitamin K was? 385 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 2: Ketamine? And that was, oh gosh. I was prosecuting a. 386 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: Dope lord and he had a stash of vitamin K. 387 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: That's the first time I heard about Kennymine and Matthew. 388 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 6: Garry was not the celebrity to be open about the 389 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 6: Keademy therapy sessions. I mean, the week before he died 390 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 6: on December first, Christy Keagan was very open about the 391 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 6: fact that she underwent Academy therapy session to celebrate her birthday. 392 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 6: And she said on Instagram how she saw Spaece and 393 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 6: time and her late so late son Jack is someone 394 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 6: she saw during this therapy session. So Kedemy has kind 395 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 6: of like sort of has come into the conscious as 396 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 6: of late and now more because of Matthew Perry's death. 397 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 6: You're seeing the horrible side eff that it can have. 398 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: So Miguel Alndez from at Joining Us, you're saying that 399 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 1: it's common use among celebrities to what fight depression. 400 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 6: To fight depression, to figure themselves, to use them to 401 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 6: use it as a form of therapy. Christy Keagan is 402 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 6: far from the only celebrity who has been open about 403 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 6: taking or undergoing Academy therapy sessions. The lights of Sharon 404 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,480 Speaker 6: Osbourne and Pete Davidson. 405 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 7: Who have been open about this. 406 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 6: But again, Academy therapy session is not dangerous if it's 407 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 6: done under supervision, as our doctor seen doctor Sareff said, 408 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 6: when you go rogue, and in this case, it seems 409 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 6: to indicate that that's what Matthew Perry did. You're going 410 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 6: to see the fatal consequences, consequences, and that's just that's 411 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 6: exactly what happened here. 412 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 1: You're hearing Miguel Melendez, senior writer at and I've got 413 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: to get everything he. 414 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 2: Said, which is all correct. 415 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: By the way, explain to me medically, doctor William Maroney, 416 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: renowned expert in this field. 417 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 2: So when you have ketamine treatment with. 418 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: A doctor, you're saying, keny maine is ingested nasally like 419 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: through dristand the spray into your nose, and if it's 420 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: used any other way than it's rogue. 421 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 2: Do I have that right, Maroney? 422 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 9: The reason why it's rogue is the FDA approved spray 423 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 9: comes with specific conditions, that you're observed, that they follow instructions, 424 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 9: and that your safety comes first, and you really can't 425 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 9: even drive to and from your session. 426 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 8: You're supposed to have somebody take care of you. 427 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 9: As soon as you let somebody take ketamine pills, well, 428 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,240 Speaker 9: it's unobserved, it's uncontrolled, and it's clear there was ketamine 429 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 9: in his stomach and his level in his blood was 430 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 9: exactly halfway between low anesthesia and high anesthesia. You don't 431 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 9: have those levels when you're supervised. And the whole idea 432 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 9: that ketamine therapy is matched to a psycho social treatment 433 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 9: of behavioral counseling session. That's where you make the changes 434 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 9: you have better insight, you have better processing and stress, and. 435 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 8: You're not impulsive. 436 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 9: The last thing you want with impulsive behaviors with somebody 437 00:25:58,520 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 9: in addiction is the. 438 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 8: Them on postosterone. That's insane. Well, everybody knows it makes 439 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,160 Speaker 8: you feel really good as a man. 440 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 9: You're sixty years old, suddenly you feel thirty six, okay, 441 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 9: but it comes at the price of frustration and anger 442 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,320 Speaker 9: and really short tempers. Add that to the impulsivity of 443 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 9: substance use disorder and you could have, you know, a 444 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 9: dark rabbit hole, a hidden monster in the shadows, and 445 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 9: somebody who's not going to listen to somebody when they say, oh, 446 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 9: you know, it's taken a few too many ketamine pills. 447 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 9: Ketamine spray is not something you do every day. It's 448 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 9: once or twice a month with counseling sessions. 449 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 13: And because he had the pills in his stomach still 450 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 13: at the time the autopsy, we know it was rogue 451 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 13: aketamine and not the type used for infusion treatment. 452 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 2: And of course you've got the other factor weighing. 453 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: Into Matthew Perry's death, and that is with all these 454 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 1: drugs in the system, he gets into the pool, the 455 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: hot tub and it's not the first time. 456 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: Take a listen to our cut thirteen. 457 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 12: Now on Amergency. 458 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 14: How you doing? 459 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 9: This is security from Beverly Hilton. 460 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 6: All right with going on? 461 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,160 Speaker 14: I need a paramedic family. I got a forty six 462 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 14: year old female found in the bathroom. But a fall 463 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 14: up guy right now, but they're requesting paramedic triw Okay, 464 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 14: para fell a bathroom. I'll love Rumorscannel. I'm not sure 465 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 14: she fell. She was in the bathroom with the water 466 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 14: fourth fourth sixty four four three four. 467 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 6: I'm sorry. 468 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 14: There's room four three fourth yeah, okay, and there's not 469 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 14: eat twist or anything else. There's room four three four 470 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 14: three four yeah. 471 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 4: Okay. 472 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,399 Speaker 14: You don't know see your country. 473 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:36,719 Speaker 2: Of breathing at all. 474 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,239 Speaker 14: Apparently she wasn't breathing and she's twenty six year old. 475 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 9: She was not breathing. 476 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 14: Yeah, okay, but she is a breathing I aw, I 477 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,399 Speaker 14: don't know. Okay, that's the first thing that called me, 478 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 14: was guy rad And i'kay. 479 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 7: Much out of it. 480 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 14: Okay, you know, got r card to go in there now, Okay, 481 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,159 Speaker 14: we'll come to breathe for fire over there was that 482 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 14: a person not breathing. 483 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 6: There's kind of like the first one. 484 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 12: Still not breathing. 485 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 6: Yeah, that's correct. Okay, we'll get in there. 486 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 14: For not bringing everybody, give me to the real plans? 487 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 14: Can I get to pr Yeah, we're going there. Now 488 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 14: are you getting into the realms? 489 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 12: Like I've got to get keep cart truck. 490 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sorry. 491 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 14: You kept hanging up on us, kept hanging up on you. 492 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:05,840 Speaker 7: Okay, right, we're good. 493 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 12: Now you go it. 494 00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 7: Okay, okay, back, thank you. 495 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 1: And there was water in Whitney Houston's lungs, indicating she 496 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: was alive when she was submerged underwater. But according to 497 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: what we learn, the level of cocaine in Whitney Houston's 498 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:26,479 Speaker 1: body was not lethal, but it was enough to make 499 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: her unaware of the fact she was going underwater, and 500 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: in an eerie twist, the same thing happens to her daughter. 501 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 2: To listen to our cut sixteen, The. 502 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 11: Only child of Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby Christina 503 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 11: Brown wanted to follow her mother's footsteps as a singer 504 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,240 Speaker 11: and actress. Tyler Perry cast Bobby Christina Brown in his 505 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 11: television series For Better or Worse and had high praise 506 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 11: for her work. In her personal life, she became engaged 507 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 11: in Nick Gordon, a friend of the family who lived 508 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 11: with them from the age of twelve. Never officially adopted 509 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 11: by Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown, Bobby Christina Brown referred 510 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 11: to him as her big Bra online. Their engagement shocked many. 511 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 11: On January thirty one, twenty fifteen, Nick Gordon found Bobby 512 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 11: Christina face down, unconscious in a bathtub in her home 513 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 11: in Alfaretta, Georgia. 514 00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: And then, just recently, we lose another celebrity, Aaron Carter 515 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: in our cut twenty one. 516 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 11: As the younger brother of Nick Carter of the Bank 517 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 11: Street Boys, Aaron Carter had a connection to the big time. 518 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 11: He could sing, he could dance, and he had the 519 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 11: look as with most teen idols when they're fifteen minutes 520 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 11: is up. Aaron Carter struggled. His first stint in a 521 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 11: treatment facility was announced by his manager when the singer 522 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:40,480 Speaker 11: was just twenty three. Then a year later it was 523 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 11: announced that he completed a twenty eight day rehab stint 524 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 11: at the Betty Ford Center. On November fourth, twenty twenty two, 525 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 11: Aaron Carter's housekeeper found his body in the bathtub at 526 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 11: his home. The Los Angeles County Department of Medical Examiner 527 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 11: Corner ruled cause of death was attributed to drowning after 528 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 11: inhaling die flora ethane and taking the generic of the 529 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 11: brand name Xanax. The report also indicated the Carter was 530 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 11: incapacitated while in the bathtub due to the effects of 531 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,479 Speaker 11: the drugs he took, which contributed to his death by drowning. 532 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 11: Aaron Carter was thirty four. 533 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: You know, Wendy Patrick, California prosecutor and author. So many people, 534 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 1: not just celebrities, die in pools and hot tubs after 535 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: too many drugs or too much alcohol. 536 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 12: Yeah, it's so unfortunate. You know, we only hear about 537 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 12: some of these famous people because they're famous. Think about 538 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 12: how many men and women, friends, neighbors, family members die 539 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 12: in the same way. But maybe don't just grab headlines. 540 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 12: It's one of the reasons we always want to reach 541 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 12: out sooner rather than later for people that are struggling. 542 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 12: And I like the way in that last clip they 543 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 12: talked a little bit about what happens after the fame. 544 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 6: You know. 545 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 12: One of the things that Matthew Perry said, he said, 546 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 12: taking k is like being hit in the head with 547 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 12: a giant happy shovel, but the hangover outweighed the benefits. 548 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 12: And that's part of what I think celebrities are getting 549 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 12: better at explaining and that yes, perhaps they're self medicating, 550 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 12: but it's not worth it in the end. And that's 551 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 12: one of the messages that Matthew Perry wanted to. 552 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: Leave us with Karen start joining us a renowned psychologist. Karen, 553 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: we know that Matthew Perry told everyone he had been 554 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: clean going on two years? Is that common for addicts 555 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 1: to insist their cleim. 556 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 10: Is tremendous amounts of denial, Nancy, because they really are struggling, 557 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 10: in most cases to be clean. They don't want to 558 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 10: be addicted, but they're very, very susceptible. And when you 559 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 10: think about somebody who's famous like that, there are always 560 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 10: people around who were willing to oblige them with drugs 561 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 10: and tempt them with drugs because they want to make 562 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 10: them happy, they want to be around the celebrity. It's 563 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 10: something that happens all the time. So I am sure 564 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 10: he was trying but obviously not succeeding, or that ketamine 565 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 10: would not have been there he. 566 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: Had really been through a battle. I want you to 567 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,719 Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut four our friends from 568 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: crime online. Something I didn't know until after Matthew Perry 569 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: passed away. 570 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 2: After years of addiction. 571 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,360 Speaker 15: Matthew Perry spent five months in the hospital after his 572 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 15: colon burst from prolonged opioid abuse. Perry says he was 573 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 15: in surgery for seven hours, in a coma for two weeks, 574 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 15: and doctors told his family he had a two percent 575 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 15: chance of survival. 576 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 2: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 577 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: Stripped of his medical license when his reputation who cares 578 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: everybody else that. 579 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 2: Causes a death goes to jail? 580 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 9: Why not him? 581 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 2: Now? He claims he's scraping by as a ride chair driver. 582 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 2: You know what, take more jobs. He also begged the 583 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 2: court to credit him with time served. 584 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: So wait his sentences. He drives an uber that's his sentence. 585 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:14,719 Speaker 1: What happened to Matthew Perry? Doctor William Moroney joining us 586 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 1: the pre eminent expert in this field. 587 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 2: Doctor Moroney, I believe that if my colon had burst. 588 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,760 Speaker 1: From prolonged drug use, I would go through hell in 589 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 1: high water not to get addicted again. But see that's 590 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: me on the outside looking in because I'm not addicted. 591 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 1: Addicts tell me that they can't stop themselves. 592 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 9: What it is is there is an insight issue that 593 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 9: comes with substance use disorder, and the only way you 594 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 9: can rewire the brain. It's like rewiring a vacuum cleaner, 595 00:33:54,920 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 9: rewiring a radio, or you know, rewiring a power strip. 596 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 8: You rewire the brain, not. 597 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 9: By feeding the body drugs just as a substitute, but 598 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 9: in depth therapy, making selections, looking at the trauma in 599 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 9: your life, choosing not to be impulsive, choosing to process 600 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 9: your stress. You have to do that with another person, 601 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 9: face the face. It's not always about the drugs. He 602 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 9: may have been clean from heroin for two years, but 603 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 9: his brain was not done processing that. Impulsivity and impulsivity, 604 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 9: poor processing, and lack of insight. Those are the three 605 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 9: things that substance use disorder people suffer with every single 606 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 9: for alcohol, heroin. Okay, those are the three things. And 607 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,320 Speaker 9: the only way through that rewiring is with another person 608 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 9: in a chair, face the face, and that's just not 609 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 9: being done today. Everybody wants a pill, they want to 610 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:07,800 Speaker 9: quick fix, and these rogue doctors are not getting people 611 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 9: the therapy they need. In the end, the same thing 612 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 9: is going to happen somebody's going to be investigated by 613 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 9: the medical board. There'll be another trial any year. Somebody's 614 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 9: going to lose their license. And it's so sad that 615 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 9: Matthew Perry had to die this way. 616 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: Same thing with Michael Jackson, Conrad Murray, there was a trial, 617 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: he gets convicted. In the end he walks free, and 618 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: Michael Jackson still did. Same thing with Matthew Perry. A 619 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: bright light has been extinguished because of ketamine. And I 620 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: want to follow up with Miguel Melndez, a senior reporter 621 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:53,320 Speaker 1: Entertainment Tonight. Miguel, I had no idea that Matthew Perry 622 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,800 Speaker 1: had been through so much in his battle, even having 623 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: his colon burst from prolonged opioid abuse. 624 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 2: But there's more, Miguel. Let's now cut five. 625 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 15: Two years after his near death experience, Matthew Perry goes 626 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 15: to a rehab facility in Switzerland. He wrote that he 627 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 15: faked pains and dumbs to get oxy conton during COVID. 628 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 15: He was also getting daily ketamine infusions. While at the facility, 629 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 15: Perry needed to have surgery and was given propofol. When 630 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 15: he woke up eleven hours later, he found out his 631 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 15: heart had stopped for five minutes, and during the long 632 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 15: CPR process, eight of his ribs were broken. The doctor 633 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 15: then refused more METS. 634 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:39,840 Speaker 2: So this guy, Matthew Perry, I mean, we look at him, Miguel, 635 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 2: and we think, Wow, he's famous, he's a star, he's 636 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 2: got all this money in this beautiful home. This guy 637 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 2: was in a living hell that nobody knew about. I mean, 638 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 2: he had his com burst from opioid use. 639 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: Then he dies essentially during a surgery, and all eight 640 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: of his ribs are oken during CPR. 641 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 2: And yet he went back to his own hellhole. He 642 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 2: couldn't stop himself. Miguil. 643 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean it's tragic. 644 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 6: All these near death experiences rooted from his need of 645 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 6: these substances. And he wrote in his book that he 646 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 6: thought that the only reason why he was revived and 647 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 6: given CPR in such aggressive manner was because the first 648 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,600 Speaker 6: in performing the CPR said, I can't let the guy 649 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,840 Speaker 6: from Friends die on my table. That can't happen on 650 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 6: my watch. So in retrospect, Perry asked himself, had I 651 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 6: not been on Friends, would they have stopped giving me 652 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 6: CPR after three minutes? And said they went five minutes? Wow, 653 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:49,800 Speaker 6: five them, Wow, and you talk about these drugs in 654 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 6: his system. And even when he was detoxing in the 655 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 6: final episode of Friends in two thousand and four, when 656 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,400 Speaker 6: the episode ended and it all came to a close 657 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 6: and everyone felt emotional, not just the cast and the crew, 658 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 6: but everyone who was tuned in too that show. Parry 659 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 6: himself said in his book that he felt nothing because 660 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 6: the detox drug that was in his system at the 661 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,600 Speaker 6: time made him feel numb. So even in the happiest moments, 662 00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,400 Speaker 6: or what should have been the happiest moments of his life, 663 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 6: he felt nothing. And again, it all rooted because of 664 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 6: the subtance issue that he's had for so long. 665 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: Miguel, you are bringing up a whole other issue, not 666 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 1: only the battle against addiction, but how it affects your 667 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: life day to day. He couldn't even feel regular emotions. 668 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, this morning when I was driving 669 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: the twins to school, I was so happy just being 670 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,320 Speaker 1: with them. What a loss in your life not to 671 00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: be able to feel all those wonderful things. And guys, 672 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:02,160 Speaker 1: we're finding out now how his Kennemine addiction began. Take 673 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: your listen to Our cut six Our Friend Investigative reporter Nicole. 674 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 5: Parton Matthew Perry wrote about the ketamine infusions he received 675 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,880 Speaker 5: at the Swiss clinic. He explained in his memoir that 676 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 5: ketamine quote has my name written all over it. They 677 00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 5: might as well have called it Maddie. The New York 678 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:22,720 Speaker 5: Post reports that Perry described the drug as a giant 679 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,320 Speaker 5: exhale and said he would be blindfolded and listening to 680 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 5: music when he got his injections. Perry also said he 681 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,239 Speaker 5: would disassociate during the infusions and often felt as if 682 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,080 Speaker 5: he were dying. Perry said he kept signing up for 683 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,680 Speaker 5: it because it was something different, and quote, anything different 684 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 5: is good. Taking kay is like being hit in the 685 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 5: head with a giant, happy shovel, But the hangover was 686 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 5: rough and outweighed the shovel. 687 00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:50,240 Speaker 11: Still. 688 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 5: In his memoir, Perry says ketamine was not for. 689 00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: Me, you know, doctor Maroney, Ketamine is my new nightmare. 690 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,280 Speaker 1: My new nightmare because I've never knowne of it actually 691 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 1: killing anyone until now. 692 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 9: Well, I think the ketamine awareness has went from zero 693 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 9: to a hundred on our National barometer. But the whole 694 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 9: idea is effective, evidence based FDA proved ketamine treatment comes 695 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,280 Speaker 9: with counseling, and where we have rogue doctors and really 696 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,840 Speaker 9: dark rabbit holes, is people are going to look for 697 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 9: this stuff and not match it to the counseling. 698 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 8: The lack of feeling that. 699 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 9: He had meant that he was just altered by drugs 700 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 9: seeing people having emotions. You know, you talked about your kids. 701 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,640 Speaker 9: I got kids the same age. Where's the celebrities with 702 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:51,200 Speaker 9: taking their kids to school? 703 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:52,920 Speaker 8: They miss all that stuff. 704 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 9: They're in clinics, they're in rehab, their homes are in 705 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 9: the hills, and nobody had families out there. 706 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:04,440 Speaker 8: Let's get back to simple things. If you're going to 707 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 8: do katamine, you're going to seek it out. 708 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 9: Seek out the FDA improved katomene, the counseling, the psychiatrist 709 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 9: of behavioral health clinics, not the rogue. 710 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 8: Rogue leads to death. 711 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: You know one thing that Matthew Perry said, he said 712 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,840 Speaker 1: that when I ever die, I'm probably going to be 713 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,759 Speaker 1: remembered from my role in friends. But what I want 714 00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: to be remembered for is how I helped people and 715 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,320 Speaker 1: maybe helped them get out of or avoid addiction. 716 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 2: And he has done that. 717 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,960 Speaker 1: His lawyer's wanting to the judge that he lost his career, 718 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: his reputation, financial stability. Yeah, everybody that gets convicted in 719 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,279 Speaker 1: connection with a death goes to jail as well. They 720 00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: don't just quote lose their reputation. According to Matthew Perry's parents, 721 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: this doctor is quote among the most culpable of all 722 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: in their son's death. 723 00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 2: How do you think they feel to night? 724 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes I swear I feel there just ain't no justice. 725 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,840 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace signing off good bye for it.